1
00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:03,720
Speaker 1: What was it like being married to Kevin Correll?

2
00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:12,680
Speaker 2: Okay, it was a mixed mixed bag. You know, there

3
00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:16,520
Speaker 2: was many sides to Kevin, good side, bad side. Get

4
00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:26,360
Speaker 2: the emotional already. Sorry, it's just hard to talk about it.

5
00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:37,879
Speaker 2: You can take your time. That's stupid, It's not stupid.

6
00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:42,120
Speaker 1: I'm sorry to be opening these wounds. You do want

7
00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:54,200
Speaker 1: to do this, I do, It's just really hard. I'm

8
00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:58,000
Speaker 1: Ashley Hanson and this is episode nine of Dear Rochelle,

9
00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:02,400
Speaker 1: a podcast by True Crime as Australia. We're investigating the

10
00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:06,320
Speaker 1: unsolved murder of twenty three year old Rochelle Charles. At

11
00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:10,320
Speaker 1: the beginning of Rochelle's inquest, there were nine persons of interest.

12
00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:16,560
Speaker 1: At the conclusion, only one man remained uncleared, Rochelle's boss,

13
00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:22,680
Speaker 1: Kevin Stephen Carell. In recent episodes, you've heard disturbing allegations

14
00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:27,880
Speaker 1: from women and men accusing Kevin of serious crimes, including stalking,

15
00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:34,560
Speaker 1: threatening violence, attempted sexual assault and rape. In the nineteen eighties,

16
00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:39,680
Speaker 1: Kevin was acquitted of four separate sex assault changes. Kevin

17
00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:44,360
Speaker 1: also strenuously denies any involvement in Rochelle's murder and has

18
00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:48,360
Speaker 1: never been changed by police. At the conclusion of the

19
00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:52,760
Speaker 1: inquest into Rochelle's death, the coroner made an open finding.

20
00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:57,720
Speaker 1: You've heard a lot about Kevin's dark past. One thing

21
00:01:57,760 --> 00:02:01,160
Speaker 1: we've learned during this investigation is that you never know

22
00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:05,520
Speaker 1: who will find the courage to break their silence. Next.

23
00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:09,560
Speaker 2: My name is Elise. That's not my real name. I

24
00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:11,760
Speaker 2: was married to Kevin Correll for thirteen years.

25
00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:15,000
Speaker 1: This episode is a little bit different. It's just a

26
00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:18,880
Speaker 1: lease in me unpacking her life with Kevin Correll. She

27
00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:21,880
Speaker 1: left him four years before June two thousand and one,

28
00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:26,040
Speaker 1: when Michelle was killed. Even with everything you've already heard,

29
00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:30,280
Speaker 1: Elisa's story is likely to shock you and a heads up.

30
00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:35,040
Speaker 1: This episode deals with some confronting topics, including allegations of

31
00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:46,079
Speaker 1: family violence. When did you first meet Kevin?

32
00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:50,000
Speaker 2: That would have been in Ah, my goodness, I was

33
00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:52,600
Speaker 2: still married to my first husband then when I first

34
00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:54,280
Speaker 2: met him because he was a DJ at the club

35
00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:58,560
Speaker 2: my first husband, I worked at the club and they

36
00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:02,560
Speaker 2: used have a go on a Thursday night and a

37
00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:06,600
Speaker 2: Saturday night, and Kevin was one of the DJs. And

38
00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:11,799
Speaker 2: I actually knew his partner first. As in partner, I

39
00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:14,040
Speaker 2: mean the guy that he worked with. I worked for

40
00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:18,320
Speaker 2: try to think of his name, Darryl. Darryl and I

41
00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:22,280
Speaker 2: met him first, and then Daryl introduced me to Kevin,

42
00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:25,960
Speaker 2: and you know, just everybody knew Kevin like he was

43
00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:28,080
Speaker 2: the DJ there, so everybody knew who he was. I

44
00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:31,040
Speaker 2: think the first time Kevin ever noticed me, I was

45
00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:36,280
Speaker 2: actually about seven months pregnant with my son, and funnily enough,

46
00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:40,080
Speaker 2: I was just disco dancing seven months pregnant. But that's

47
00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:42,920
Speaker 2: what we did back then. No, he actually asked Darryl

48
00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:46,240
Speaker 2: about me, that's right. He said, you know, who's that like,

49
00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:51,800
Speaker 2: she's pregnant, who's she married to? And said my husband's name?

50
00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:54,520
Speaker 2: Because they didn't like each other. Apparently I didn't know

51
00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:56,920
Speaker 2: that a couple of years later, well quite a few

52
00:03:56,960 --> 00:03:58,720
Speaker 2: years later when I think about it, because my son

53
00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:01,600
Speaker 2: was seven when Kevin and I started dating.

54
00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:03,800
Speaker 1: What was he like when you started dating him?

55
00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:07,440
Speaker 2: Wonderful? Honestly, it was he just swept me off my

56
00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:11,080
Speaker 2: feet basically, And yeah, I just thought he was just

57
00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:13,560
Speaker 2: the ants pants. I just thought he was absolutely wonderful.

58
00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:17,360
Speaker 2: He could be so much fun. He was very generous,

59
00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:20,600
Speaker 2: like to a fault. He was a pleaser. He tried,

60
00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:24,200
Speaker 2: always tried to please most of the time, enjoyed his company.

61
00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:28,120
Speaker 2: He was a fun person to be around. As I said,

62
00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:32,440
Speaker 2: he had many sides. And when it snapped that, you know,

63
00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:34,400
Speaker 2: it was just like it was like someone flicked a

64
00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:39,160
Speaker 2: switch and it wasn't just his demeanor. His whole face

65
00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:43,360
Speaker 2: would change. He had his star sign his Gemini and

66
00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:46,520
Speaker 2: that's two faces, and that was Kevin. That's a nice

67
00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:50,680
Speaker 2: face and then this ugly face that I didn't even

68
00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:52,920
Speaker 2: look like the person that I knew, and I mean

69
00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:58,240
Speaker 2: physically his face would change. That's yeah, and you just

70
00:04:58,240 --> 00:04:59,719
Speaker 2: never knew when that was going to happen.

71
00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:03,960
Speaker 1: What was the moment that you realized that maybe he

72
00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:06,919
Speaker 1: wasn't the person that you thought he was.

73
00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:09,960
Speaker 2: So that's where he was very clever, because that snuck

74
00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:13,640
Speaker 2: up on me. That was just little things here, you know,

75
00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:18,680
Speaker 2: things that you maybe notice but don't notice, if you

76
00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:21,280
Speaker 2: know what I mean, Like it'd be like a okay,

77
00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:24,760
Speaker 2: and he'd cover it up, like then he'd be nice,

78
00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:27,080
Speaker 2: he'd cover it up. It was like a joke. He'd

79
00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:30,600
Speaker 2: make everything to be a joke. So it's really slowly

80
00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:33,360
Speaker 2: snuck up on me until it was just like one

81
00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:37,160
Speaker 2: day it was just a big explosion, you know that thought,

82
00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:41,240
Speaker 2: I don't know why am I here? Like, how did

83
00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:42,719
Speaker 2: this happen? How did I get here?

84
00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:45,159
Speaker 1: How bad did things get? When you were with Kevin?

85
00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:48,800
Speaker 2: They could get pretty bad? Yeah, he'd you know, you

86
00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:52,559
Speaker 2: have Every couple has their normal arguments, but with Kevin

87
00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:55,480
Speaker 2: it was a whole other story. It would be a

88
00:05:55,480 --> 00:06:00,640
Speaker 2: big blow up. And then he'd just speak to me

89
00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:03,479
Speaker 2: for like two to three weeks, not speak to me,

90
00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:09,440
Speaker 2: what not one word, and then I'd end up apologizing

91
00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:12,359
Speaker 2: and everything had been all right. And it got to

92
00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:14,919
Speaker 2: the point where I started to write down what the

93
00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:17,360
Speaker 2: argument was about, because after two to three weeks, I'd

94
00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:20,640
Speaker 2: forgotten what the argument was all about anyway. So I

95
00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:23,360
Speaker 2: started to write it down so that when he tried

96
00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:25,839
Speaker 2: to convince me that it was my fault that we

97
00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:28,120
Speaker 2: had this argument, I could say, well, no, it wasn't.

98
00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:30,560
Speaker 2: This is what it was about. So the very first

99
00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:34,720
Speaker 2: time I did that, that's what his face changed, and

100
00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:37,040
Speaker 2: it was like, oh, you're going to be a smart

101
00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:40,360
Speaker 2: ass about it, are you? You know you're going to

102
00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:43,560
Speaker 2: start writing things down, keeping you know, keeping notes of

103
00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:46,240
Speaker 2: things that I do. And it said, what do you

104
00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:49,520
Speaker 2: think you are? A detective? You know, and just made

105
00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:51,040
Speaker 2: it like this whole big thing out of it. And

106
00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:52,799
Speaker 2: all I was trying to do was prove a point

107
00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:55,960
Speaker 2: to him that you know that you're just sook. You'd

108
00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:58,520
Speaker 2: go up, you sulk the two to three weeks, and

109
00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:00,400
Speaker 2: I have to live with you like that. I don't

110
00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:03,039
Speaker 2: want to live with someone like that. He just drag

111
00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:05,160
Speaker 2: this thing out and make me suffer. That was what

112
00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:06,279
Speaker 2: it was. It was suffering.

113
00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:08,560
Speaker 1: Did he ever physically hurt you?

114
00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:12,120
Speaker 2: He had done. It wasn't a regular thing. It wasn't

115
00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:16,000
Speaker 2: like you know you have about domestic violence and it happens,

116
00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:18,040
Speaker 2: you know, day in day out, that typic thing. Though

117
00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:21,520
Speaker 2: not ever like that. But he did, Yes, yes he was.

118
00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:24,960
Speaker 2: It was one night we'd been out. This is the

119
00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:26,880
Speaker 2: main one that sticks in my head because the other

120
00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:32,040
Speaker 2: ones were just little, when I say little, compared to

121
00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:35,400
Speaker 2: this one. We'd been up with my sister and her partner,

122
00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:40,120
Speaker 2: her boyfriend for dinner and they were driving, so they

123
00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:43,000
Speaker 2: dropped us home and I must have said something or

124
00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:45,440
Speaker 2: done something during the night that didn't like I can't

125
00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:47,680
Speaker 2: remember what it was, now, but I knew he was

126
00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:49,600
Speaker 2: cranky with me all the way home in the car.

127
00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:51,880
Speaker 2: I knew he wouldn't speak to me, and I just

128
00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:55,360
Speaker 2: kept getting filthy looks from him, and even my sister

129
00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:57,560
Speaker 2: like she kept looking back over and you know, are

130
00:07:57,600 --> 00:07:59,760
Speaker 2: you okay? And yeah, you know. I didn't want to

131
00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:01,360
Speaker 2: make a seen in front of them. We got home

132
00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:03,600
Speaker 2: and I don't know how i'd ended up, but I

133
00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:06,520
Speaker 2: ended up in my son's bedroom, and I think I

134
00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:08,440
Speaker 2: might have been going to go and sleep in there

135
00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:10,400
Speaker 2: for the night to get away from him. And he

136
00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:12,280
Speaker 2: came in and he just pushed me back on the

137
00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:15,360
Speaker 2: bed and he was like punching into me while I

138
00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:17,560
Speaker 2: was on the bed, and my sister knew that something

139
00:08:17,960 --> 00:08:19,760
Speaker 2: was going to happen, so she came up knocked on

140
00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:24,400
Speaker 2: the front door, and that's the reason he stopped. It

141
00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:29,640
Speaker 2: happened over thirteen years, probably three times. So And I

142
00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:32,440
Speaker 2: also said to you about domestic violence. I grew up

143
00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:37,120
Speaker 2: with it, so that's how I saw domestic violence, how

144
00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:41,840
Speaker 2: my father was. So what Kevin did to me was

145
00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:45,160
Speaker 2: nothing like what my mother went through. So you know,

146
00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:49,800
Speaker 2: now I'm older and I understand domestic violence better. I

147
00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:54,079
Speaker 2: see that it was domestic violence, but his was more emotional,

148
00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:58,880
Speaker 2: more what's the word. I'm looking for COEs of control. Yes,

149
00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:03,880
Speaker 2: controlling that type of domestic violence. See, I didn't even

150
00:09:03,920 --> 00:09:05,600
Speaker 2: know that existed before.

151
00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:08,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, how did he try and control you?

152
00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:10,920
Speaker 2: Well, he bought me my first mobile phone so that

153
00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:13,360
Speaker 2: he could keep track of me. I thought he was

154
00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:16,560
Speaker 2: being really nice and buying me a mobile phone, and

155
00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:19,120
Speaker 2: it was so he could know where I was all

156
00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:22,800
Speaker 2: the time, because he knows, well, he knew saying he knows,

157
00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:26,800
Speaker 2: he knew that I wasn't a good liar. So if

158
00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:29,040
Speaker 2: he rang me and I wasn't where I was supposed

159
00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:31,040
Speaker 2: to be, he knew that I wouldn't be able to

160
00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:34,560
Speaker 2: lie about it. I would stutter or stagger, you know,

161
00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:40,520
Speaker 2: like just not be able to think like that. Well, I'm,

162
00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:42,280
Speaker 2: you know, here where I'm supposed to be, you know,

163
00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:44,440
Speaker 2: I just knew that he knew that I wasn't where

164
00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:46,240
Speaker 2: I was supposed to be. And it might have just

165
00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:48,080
Speaker 2: been that I'd left where I was supposed to be

166
00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:50,520
Speaker 2: early and called him to see a friend or something

167
00:09:50,559 --> 00:09:53,120
Speaker 2: like that, But no, I wasn't where I was supposed

168
00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:57,600
Speaker 2: to be. So controlling otherways, well, money, he controlled money.

169
00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:00,280
Speaker 2: He didn't want me to work. That was the one

170
00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:02,760
Speaker 2: thing he didn't want me to work. So while I

171
00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:05,480
Speaker 2: wasn't working, he had the money, and I used to

172
00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:07,560
Speaker 2: sayed him and even made up a name for it.

173
00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:11,240
Speaker 2: I called momo money of my own? Can I have some?

174
00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:11,559
Speaker 1: Like?

175
00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:14,240
Speaker 2: So, I've got some money in my wallet, you know,

176
00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:15,920
Speaker 2: if I want to go and buy something you want,

177
00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:18,000
Speaker 2: you said, well, where do you want to go? What

178
00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:19,560
Speaker 2: do you want to buy? I'll get it for you,

179
00:10:19,559 --> 00:10:22,560
Speaker 2: you know. So he just didn't want me to be

180
00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:25,560
Speaker 2: out and about and all that sort of thing. So

181
00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:27,880
Speaker 2: and I ended up going back to work anyway. I

182
00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:29,280
Speaker 2: thought he's not going to get the better of me

183
00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:32,240
Speaker 2: with that one, so I just you know, And he

184
00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:34,440
Speaker 2: didn't like it, but he got used to it and

185
00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:36,000
Speaker 2: he was okay with it in the end.

186
00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:40,720
Speaker 1: So how fearful were you of him during your relationship.

187
00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:42,760
Speaker 2: Most of the time? Not, That's the strange thing about it.

188
00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:45,520
Speaker 2: Most of the time. Not until he had one of

189
00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:49,640
Speaker 2: his snaps, and that that's when I was scared then.

190
00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:52,599
Speaker 2: But most of the time, no, I wasn't scared. We

191
00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:56,760
Speaker 2: got on really really well together. We could sit and

192
00:10:56,800 --> 00:11:00,360
Speaker 2: talk for hours and never run out of conversation. There

193
00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:02,360
Speaker 2: was always a thing too, if we were out anywhere,

194
00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:05,320
Speaker 2: any guy looked at me, if he like I might

195
00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:07,199
Speaker 2: have noticed that any guy looked at me. He would

196
00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:09,600
Speaker 2: notice that some guy was looking at me, and he'd

197
00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:11,760
Speaker 2: get really angry at that. And I'd said, I can't

198
00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:15,040
Speaker 2: control what other people do. Do you want me to

199
00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:17,080
Speaker 2: go to every single man in the place and say,

200
00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:19,200
Speaker 2: do not look at me at all. You know that

201
00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:22,880
Speaker 2: I'm going to look like a nutcase, you know, just

202
00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:25,800
Speaker 2: I'm not doing anything to attract like making them look

203
00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:28,800
Speaker 2: at me. Just control yourself. He would just get so

204
00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:31,400
Speaker 2: angry if anybody ever looked at me. So he was

205
00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:37,120
Speaker 2: quite jealous, very jealous, very very jealous. Yes, extremely jealous. Yeah,

206
00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:39,719
Speaker 2: just tell me how to wear my hair. Don't wear

207
00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:41,439
Speaker 2: it this way because that looks too nice. You only

208
00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:42,640
Speaker 2: wear it like that when you're with me.

209
00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:45,200
Speaker 1: Can you talk me through any of the moments where

210
00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:47,040
Speaker 1: you were fearful of Kevin?

211
00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:50,720
Speaker 2: Oh, that night when my sister knocked on the door

212
00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:53,160
Speaker 2: that night, I was extremely fearful.

213
00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:53,400
Speaker 3: Then.

214
00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:55,240
Speaker 1: Yes, did he ever threaten you?

215
00:11:57,440 --> 00:12:15,720
Speaker 2: Yes, he did threaten me. He threatened to if I

216
00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:19,680
Speaker 2: ever left him, he would hunt me down and find me.

217
00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:26,280
Speaker 2: He would cut me up in little pieces, bury me

218
00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:30,680
Speaker 2: on the beach. In individual spots to cover me in

219
00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:37,920
Speaker 2: lime so nobody could smell that there was body parts there. Yeah,

220
00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:43,520
Speaker 2: And then there was another time. Now we were either

221
00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:48,920
Speaker 2: going down to Nur because Kevin worked down at n Hora,

222
00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:51,080
Speaker 2: but that was later and I'm not sure why we

223
00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:54,960
Speaker 2: were going to Nour. I just I can't remember why

224
00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:58,000
Speaker 2: we were going there. But we drove past GIRoA Beach

225
00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:01,760
Speaker 2: and I mentioned as we'd driven past, and said, that's

226
00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:03,679
Speaker 2: a really nice caravan park on that side. I said,

227
00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:06,000
Speaker 2: what a lovely spot to have a caravan park, because

228
00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:08,440
Speaker 2: she just got to walk across the road and there's

229
00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:11,160
Speaker 2: seven mile beach there, like that would be a fun

230
00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:14,440
Speaker 2: place to take a family like to go and stay there.

231
00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:16,720
Speaker 2: And he said to me, and I said, look at

232
00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:18,080
Speaker 2: all that bush there, and he said, yeah, look at

233
00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:19,440
Speaker 2: all that bush there. He said, that'd be a good

234
00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:22,720
Speaker 2: place to bury somebody. Just make sure you behave yourself.

235
00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:28,360
Speaker 2: And that's what he said to me then. So then

236
00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:30,920
Speaker 2: I sort of didn't think much of it at the time,

237
00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:34,120
Speaker 2: as things sort of happened over the years, so I

238
00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:35,200
Speaker 2: thought more about it.

239
00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:40,920
Speaker 1: Rochelle was killed by someone she knew. His burnt body

240
00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:43,600
Speaker 1: was found on a lonely South Coast Road found in

241
00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:44,600
Speaker 1: bush in GIRoA.

242
00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:45,520
Speaker 2: She was murdered.

243
00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:53,240
Speaker 1: What do you remember about him when he said this?

244
00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:54,840
Speaker 1: Were you in a car with him?

245
00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:58,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, we were just driving along. It was just we

246
00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:01,840
Speaker 2: weren't arguing, hadn't been an argument. There was no reason

247
00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:04,800
Speaker 2: for him to say something like that. But that was

248
00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:07,000
Speaker 2: the type of thing that Kevin could just say offhandedly,

249
00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:12,000
Speaker 2: you know, quite often. Yeah, it's just I don't even

250
00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:14,959
Speaker 2: know why he's why he would think said that at

251
00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:17,640
Speaker 2: that time. There's nothing that I can remember. As I said,

252
00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:20,880
Speaker 2: I know, we definitely were not arguing at that time,

253
00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:23,440
Speaker 2: so there was no reason for him to say that.

254
00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:26,000
Speaker 2: But he would say strange things like that, and I

255
00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:28,400
Speaker 2: sometimes I just said to him, where did that come from?

256
00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:31,640
Speaker 2: Why did you think of that? Like it would have

257
00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:34,000
Speaker 2: nothing to do with what was happening around us at

258
00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:36,360
Speaker 2: that moment, but he would just come off with offhanded

259
00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:37,000
Speaker 2: things like that.

260
00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:39,520
Speaker 1: So the particular threat where he said he was going

261
00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:42,880
Speaker 1: to chop you up and bury you on a beach,

262
00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:46,920
Speaker 1: and this other threat of you'll end up in there

263
00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:51,360
Speaker 1: there was Arilla Beach actually that's where he picked How

264
00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:52,600
Speaker 1: clear is that in your mind?

265
00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:56,000
Speaker 2: The Warrilla beach is the most clearest because that was

266
00:14:57,040 --> 00:14:59,520
Speaker 2: actually describing what he would do to me, So of

267
00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:02,480
Speaker 2: course that stuck with me. The giau of Beach one

268
00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:06,120
Speaker 2: was more of a like an offhanded thing. Even though

269
00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:09,480
Speaker 2: I remember it, it wasn't something that terrified me. You know.

270
00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:12,280
Speaker 2: It was just like, I'd better watch what I say

271
00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:14,000
Speaker 2: then or I'll end up there. But it was more

272
00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:18,080
Speaker 2: of me thinking that was a joke thing at that time,

273
00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:19,760
Speaker 2: because that was the first time he'd ever said it

274
00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:23,560
Speaker 2: to me. The beach one was, you know, he's telling

275
00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:25,440
Speaker 2: me he's going to cut me up in little pieces

276
00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:29,200
Speaker 2: and dig holes all over Rula Beach and bury me

277
00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:32,160
Speaker 2: and put lime on me. I thought lime was to

278
00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:35,760
Speaker 2: dissolve a body, but apparently it's to stop the smell.

279
00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:38,400
Speaker 2: I didn't know that he knew that. I've never forgotten it,

280
00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:40,880
Speaker 2: never ever forgotten it.

281
00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:43,480
Speaker 1: Do you have a memory of what year or month

282
00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:45,440
Speaker 1: he threatened you the.

283
00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:48,320
Speaker 2: Rule of beach one. I know we were living in

284
00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:51,640
Speaker 2: our house. We were there from ninety three, well I

285
00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:53,920
Speaker 2: was there from ninety three till ninety seven, so it

286
00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:59,040
Speaker 2: was in that time. Then I couldn't say exactly when.

287
00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:03,000
Speaker 1: Let's go back to nineteen eighty three. Is that when

288
00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:03,720
Speaker 1: you met Kevin.

289
00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:06,840
Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure it was towards the end of eighty three.

290
00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:11,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, by this stage Kevin had been accused of serious

291
00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:16,440
Speaker 1: sex assaults. When did you first hear that he'd been

292
00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:18,359
Speaker 1: accused of sexual assaults?

293
00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:24,240
Speaker 2: Not very long into dating, I would say within the

294
00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:27,480
Speaker 2: first year. He started to tell me a few things

295
00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:31,040
Speaker 2: here and there. Yeah, he wasn't guilty of it that,

296
00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:36,120
Speaker 2: you know, Just I asked him to explain, like, what happened?

297
00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:39,080
Speaker 2: What was going on? You had this all come about?

298
00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:43,240
Speaker 2: And it was all to do with apparently, this is

299
00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:46,640
Speaker 2: what he told me. He was dating someone high up

300
00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:48,840
Speaker 2: in the police force. He was dating one of their daughters,

301
00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:53,560
Speaker 2: and this father didn't like Kevin, so he's determined to

302
00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:56,960
Speaker 2: get him out of his daughter's life, and so he

303
00:16:57,000 --> 00:16:59,640
Speaker 2: started to make up all these accusations about him, that

304
00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:03,320
Speaker 2: he Roger Rogerson was involved in it. And I don't

305
00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:04,960
Speaker 2: even know where that came from. Why he thought it.

306
00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:08,480
Speaker 2: Maybe Roger Rogerson was in the news at that time.

307
00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:14,119
Speaker 2: I don't know. Yeah, but he just wound this big

308
00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:18,800
Speaker 2: story that I believed. It sounded very believable, so I

309
00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:23,200
Speaker 2: believed him that he wasn't guilty. That was all circumstantial

310
00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:27,680
Speaker 2: evidence against him. And yeah, this this is how this

311
00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:29,880
Speaker 2: high up policeman was going to get rid of him

312
00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:30,960
Speaker 2: out of his daughter's life.

313
00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:34,520
Speaker 1: In that time. You clearly believed him, Is that right?

314
00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:37,159
Speaker 2: Yes? I did. I believed one hundred percent that he

315
00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:42,320
Speaker 2: was not guilty. Absolutely, I believe that. Yeah, he had

316
00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:44,760
Speaker 2: me totally convinced. I went to a court case with him.

317
00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:47,800
Speaker 1: The alleged victim has spoken to the podcast and we've

318
00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:48,840
Speaker 1: called her Nicole.

319
00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:52,119
Speaker 3: The knock at the door, I opened it and it

320
00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:57,440
Speaker 3: was bam, instant melaclava. The knife was held up here.

321
00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:00,520
Speaker 3: He pushed me back. He told me that into the

322
00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:03,800
Speaker 3: bedroom and get my clothes off. He just came straight

323
00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:07,880
Speaker 3: at me and it was just closed, hard fist.

324
00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:09,119
Speaker 2: And I just went down.

325
00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:14,280
Speaker 3: It was like I just went smacked down on the bed.

326
00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:23,120
Speaker 1: Did you believe Nicole had been attacked when you sat

327
00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:24,240
Speaker 1: there in the courtroom.

328
00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:26,280
Speaker 2: Oh, yes, I believe she'd been attacked, But I didn't

329
00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:28,280
Speaker 2: believe she'd been attacked by Kevin. I thought it was

330
00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:30,400
Speaker 2: a case of mistaken identity.

331
00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:36,600
Speaker 3: Remember them saying that they have to go and have

332
00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:41,480
Speaker 3: a look at the munk shots and to don't worry

333
00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:46,200
Speaker 3: if you see him in the photos, it'll just jump

334
00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:49,480
Speaker 3: right out, an't you. And that's exactly what happened when

335
00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:54,560
Speaker 3: I was looking through all the photos. It just jumped, Yeah,

336
00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:55,800
Speaker 3: literally jumped.

337
00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:01,600
Speaker 1: And what led you to believe that she'd got it.

338
00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:05,639
Speaker 2: Wrong when she was asked by Kevin's solicitor. Obviously there

339
00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:07,920
Speaker 2: was a whole lot of questions beforehand, but it came

340
00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:11,600
Speaker 2: up to what he was wearing on that day, and

341
00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:14,800
Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure she said it was a sleeveless T shirt,

342
00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:18,080
Speaker 2: like a tank top, that type of thing. And then

343
00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:23,160
Speaker 2: his solicitor asked her, so, did he have any markings

344
00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:28,320
Speaker 2: on him, like track marks or tattoos or anything like that,

345
00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:31,399
Speaker 2: and she said, no, he had nothing on his arms.

346
00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:35,399
Speaker 2: And that's when I knew that it wasn't Kevin, because

347
00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:39,680
Speaker 2: Kevin had tattoos on his arms and he'd been having

348
00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:41,919
Speaker 2: them removed. This was before I had met him, been

349
00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:45,240
Speaker 2: having them removed. And the scars were actually worse than

350
00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:48,159
Speaker 2: what did the tattoo look like. They were very raised

351
00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:51,120
Speaker 2: and lumpy, and they looked like burns. So even if

352
00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:53,760
Speaker 2: she didn't see tattoos, she would have seen burn marks

353
00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:55,480
Speaker 2: on him. Just knew that. I thought, well, that it's

354
00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:58,359
Speaker 2: not Kevin, So I knew one hundred percent.

355
00:19:58,680 --> 00:19:59,880
Speaker 1: What do you believe now?

356
00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:02,720
Speaker 2: I believe it was him. I can still remember when

357
00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:04,919
Speaker 2: the jury came back and one of the juris that

358
00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:08,119
Speaker 2: was a lady Dura, and I think she must have

359
00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:10,760
Speaker 2: known who I was, even though I was just sitting

360
00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:14,000
Speaker 2: in the audience. She at me and gave me a smile,

361
00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:16,879
Speaker 2: So I knew that he was going to be not

362
00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:17,720
Speaker 2: found guilty.

363
00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:22,000
Speaker 1: And how has that played on your mind over the years.

364
00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:27,000
Speaker 2: I I just can't believe I was with somebody like that.

365
00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:31,760
Speaker 2: I just as I said, if I knew back then

366
00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:35,280
Speaker 2: what I know now, there's no way I especially would

367
00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:39,000
Speaker 2: never have taken my children into a relationship like that.

368
00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:42,439
Speaker 1: When you marry Kevin, what was his name Cornwall? And

369
00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:45,120
Speaker 1: how long after? Your marriage did not be changed?

370
00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:48,880
Speaker 2: Very long after? I was only actually Cornwall was on

371
00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:53,960
Speaker 2: my marriage certificate. But basically straight away we use the

372
00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:54,679
Speaker 2: name Correll.

373
00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:56,800
Speaker 1: Do you know why he chose the name Correll?

374
00:20:57,160 --> 00:20:58,800
Speaker 2: Which I think it was just something he thought up.

375
00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:01,000
Speaker 2: I don't know that he'd ever heard anywhere, because he

376
00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:03,840
Speaker 2: just said to me, I've chosen a name that I'm

377
00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:06,520
Speaker 2: going to change my name to And I said what

378
00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:08,919
Speaker 2: is it? And he said Correll And I said, Oh,

379
00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:11,080
Speaker 2: that's a nicer name than Cornwall. I didn't like the

380
00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:11,760
Speaker 2: name Cornwall.

381
00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:14,600
Speaker 1: Did he tell you why he wanted to change his name.

382
00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:17,840
Speaker 2: Because of all the things that had been going on before,

383
00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:21,600
Speaker 2: so he could start afresh, have a clean slate, It

384
00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:28,560
Speaker 2: would not be associated with the name Cornwall whatsoever. Basically, yes,

385
00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:30,359
Speaker 2: so it would be easier to get a job and

386
00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:32,840
Speaker 2: that type of thing, just to have a clean, fresh start.

387
00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:34,760
Speaker 1: How convincing was Kevin?

388
00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:43,720
Speaker 2: Extremely, Like I've never known anybody in my life that

389
00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:48,120
Speaker 2: could tell a story so convincingly that there was no

390
00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:51,800
Speaker 2: margin of err out there that you just go, that

391
00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:57,200
Speaker 2: doesn't sound right. It was I don't know how where

392
00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:00,600
Speaker 2: it came from, how he figured the sort of stuff

393
00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:02,960
Speaker 2: out that he could make it so convincingly.

394
00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:06,440
Speaker 1: And how quickly could Kevin come up with a story that.

395
00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:09,959
Speaker 2: Quick, snap my fingers that quick that We'd be with

396
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:13,960
Speaker 2: friends and I we'd be talking and out of the

397
00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:17,560
Speaker 2: blue would come this lie And I think, how did

398
00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:20,720
Speaker 2: you think of that light so quick? Like it's not

399
00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:22,800
Speaker 2: like you knew what the conversation was going to be

400
00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:26,280
Speaker 2: about beforehand. But in the blink of an eye he

401
00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:30,320
Speaker 2: made up this lie. And as I said, I knew

402
00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:32,160
Speaker 2: when he was lying because what he's telling the lie,

403
00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:34,960
Speaker 2: he had his hand over his mouth, and I thought,

404
00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:39,159
Speaker 2: you're lying. That never happened. And I'd say to him

405
00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:41,920
Speaker 2: later on, why did you say that lie? He said,

406
00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:46,159
Speaker 2: sounded like a good story, you know, just made the

407
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:49,000
Speaker 2: night more interesting, Just something flippant like that.

408
00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:52,439
Speaker 1: Just when did it become apparent to you that he

409
00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:54,720
Speaker 1: was a liar?

410
00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:57,000
Speaker 2: That took a while for me to get that through

411
00:22:57,040 --> 00:22:59,600
Speaker 2: my thick head. Yeah, that did take a while, I guess,

412
00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:04,000
Speaker 2: just the it happened, the more I just realized. You know,

413
00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:08,119
Speaker 2: I never understood why he had to tell lies. People

414
00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:11,440
Speaker 2: liked him for who he was, so he didn't have

415
00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:15,280
Speaker 2: to tell lies and make himself sound better or bigger

416
00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:17,000
Speaker 2: than what he was. He didn't need to do that.

417
00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:19,360
Speaker 2: There was no need to do that. People liked him

418
00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:22,000
Speaker 2: just the way that he was. So it was just

419
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:24,960
Speaker 2: I never understood why he did it. It was like

420
00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:27,880
Speaker 2: it was born in him and he couldn't help himself.

421
00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:30,400
Speaker 2: That's just the way he was.

422
00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:34,040
Speaker 1: How did you respond when some of these rape allegations

423
00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:37,320
Speaker 1: were broadcast on national television.

424
00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:44,199
Speaker 2: This is Michael Willisey speaking.

425
00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:47,640
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, did you participate in an interview with Mike Willersey?

426
00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:48,919
Speaker 1: How did that come about?

427
00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:53,320
Speaker 2: They were doing their primos, obviously for the Willasey Show,

428
00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:58,399
Speaker 2: and then I watched the very first Willisey Show, and

429
00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:01,280
Speaker 2: at that stage I believed everything Kevin had said to me,

430
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:04,560
Speaker 2: and they were bringing up things that I thought were lies.

431
00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:07,720
Speaker 2: So I rang the Willisey Show and said, you know

432
00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:11,600
Speaker 2: you're telling lies on national TV about this man. You

433
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:14,679
Speaker 2: know it's none of it's true. So they asked me

434
00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:17,959
Speaker 2: to come in and do an interview with them, which now,

435
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:20,400
Speaker 2: when I think back, I wish I'd never done that interview.

436
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:27,440
Speaker 2: I was just young and blinded and just just swept

437
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:29,760
Speaker 2: up in the whole Kevin Aura thing.

438
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:32,439
Speaker 1: Do you regret that you protected him back year?

439
00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:37,000
Speaker 2: Is absolutely absolutely? I do. Yeah, As I said, if

440
00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:44,080
Speaker 2: i'd known then what I know now, there's no way.

441
00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:47,919
Speaker 1: When did you decide that you had to leave Kevin?

442
00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:52,040
Speaker 2: That was in nineteen ninety seven, Yeah, I'd had enough.

443
00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:55,680
Speaker 2: I just I want to say that I had a

444
00:24:55,800 --> 00:25:00,119
Speaker 2: nice life. I had a beautiful house, I had nice car,

445
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:04,080
Speaker 2: I had nice clothes, I had everything, but I just

446
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:08,160
Speaker 2: could not live like I was walking on eggshells all

447
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:11,040
Speaker 2: the time. It just was really starting to get to me.

448
00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:16,160
Speaker 2: I just did not want to be there anymore. And

449
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:19,520
Speaker 2: I walked out, basically with a couple of suitcases of

450
00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:22,760
Speaker 2: clothes and a couple of boxes. I just left everything

451
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:30,560
Speaker 2: everything there, furniture, everything, everything. I just left. That was it.

452
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:32,560
Speaker 1: And did he try and get you back?

453
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:35,399
Speaker 2: Obviously I knew that was going to be on the

454
00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:40,000
Speaker 2: cards because he'd done that before. So I went overseas

455
00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:43,520
Speaker 2: and I stayed over there for two years in the

456
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:45,760
Speaker 2: hope that he would move on and forget about me,

457
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:48,119
Speaker 2: and then I could come back and just lived my

458
00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:52,520
Speaker 2: life here without him. Did that happen? Well, yes, I

459
00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:55,159
Speaker 2: went overseas and he'd still tried to find me. I

460
00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:57,639
Speaker 2: found out, you know, through family members and that he

461
00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:00,639
Speaker 2: was looking for me. He would likely being no stone

462
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:06,720
Speaker 2: unturned trying to find me, and he didn't. So and

463
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:10,040
Speaker 2: two years I thought, well, I'll go back and just

464
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:12,159
Speaker 2: see what happens. I could always leave again if I

465
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:14,800
Speaker 2: had to, and he'd obviously moved on.

466
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:18,960
Speaker 1: And yeah, were you fearful of Kevin when you decided

467
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 1: that you were going to leave him.

468
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:23,480
Speaker 2: Oh absolutely, I was with my staying at my mum's

469
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:26,199
Speaker 2: place for six weeks before I left to go overseas.

470
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:26,760
Speaker 1: Yeah.

471
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 2: I would not walk out of the house without checking

472
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:32,479
Speaker 2: left and right and making sure there was no cars

473
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:37,480
Speaker 2: hanging around that shouldn't be there. I used to walk

474
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:40,720
Speaker 2: every day, what a good two hours, and I'd be

475
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:42,879
Speaker 2: looking over my shoulder all the time. If a car

476
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:46,080
Speaker 2: would slow down behind me, I'd check and make sure

477
00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:49,560
Speaker 2: it wasn't him. It was very, very fearful for me.

478
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:51,960
Speaker 2: And I wasn't only fearful for me. I was fearful

479
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:54,440
Speaker 2: he might do something to one of my family members.

480
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:59,119
Speaker 1: As you said yourself, you've known Kevin probably the longest

481
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:02,400
Speaker 1: out of anyone outside of his own family.

482
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:03,160
Speaker 2: Yeah.

483
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:05,639
Speaker 1: What makes him so dangerous.

484
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:09,120
Speaker 2: The fact that he can just snap. It's like he's

485
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:11,960
Speaker 2: got a dark passenger or something living inside him, and

486
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:18,560
Speaker 2: the switch clicks and the dark passenger takes over. Yeah,

487
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:24,160
Speaker 2: it's scary to watch it actually, to see when that happens, because,

488
00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:27,879
Speaker 2: as I said, his face changes, it contorts, it's not

489
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:31,280
Speaker 2: his face. And I even told him, I said, after

490
00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:33,920
Speaker 2: one of those incidents, is a couple of weeks later

491
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:36,080
Speaker 2: or whatever. I said, your whole face changes. I said,

492
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:40,440
Speaker 2: it's ugly. It's an ugly face. And he was shocked.

493
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:43,280
Speaker 2: He was absolutely shocked that I would say that about

494
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 2: him and that his face would change that way. I said,

495
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:48,800
Speaker 2: I can't explain it to you, Kevin, I said, you

496
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:53,400
Speaker 2: do not look like yourself when this face takes over.

497
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:57,240
Speaker 2: It is like it's another person's face. That was very scary.

498
00:27:57,680 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 1: Did you get an understanding of what triggered him?

499
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:03,919
Speaker 2: It could be anything. It was so hard to pinpoint

500
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:08,040
Speaker 2: what not to say or what not to do. It

501
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:11,000
Speaker 2: could be anything that he didn't like. And who knows

502
00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:13,480
Speaker 2: what everybody like, you know, anybody likes it at any

503
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:17,439
Speaker 2: particular time. It would just you know, it could just

504
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:20,680
Speaker 2: be a word. So if you can imagine an angel

505
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:24,920
Speaker 2: all of a sudden turning black, you know, if you

506
00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:26,800
Speaker 2: can see that picture, You've got an angel floating in

507
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:28,320
Speaker 2: front of you and then all of a sudden it

508
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 2: goes black and ugly. That's the only picture.

509
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:36,640
Speaker 1: Had he ever change while you were in a car

510
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 1: with him?

511
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:39,200
Speaker 2: Actually, I can remember him smack him in the face

512
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:42,520
Speaker 2: ones when we were driving, but I don't remember where

513
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 2: we were going or what we were doing. Just just

514
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:50,000
Speaker 2: the memory came back to me. He was driving because

515
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 2: he had a ring on. I think it was a

516
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:56,960
Speaker 2: black stone, might have been Onyx or something like that.

517
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 2: Any pun shmun left a mark behind my ear for

518
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:06,160
Speaker 2: about a week. Yeah, he got me sort of right there.

519
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:09,959
Speaker 2: That the longer we were together, the more he started

520
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:13,440
Speaker 2: to show him his true self. He couldn't keep covering

521
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:15,760
Speaker 2: it up, he couldn't keep hiding it. It would come

522
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 2: out more and more. But I will say the time,

523
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:23,280
Speaker 2: the whole time that we were together, I did not

524
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:29,480
Speaker 2: know of Kevin doing anything to anybody. Ever. He would

525
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:33,360
Speaker 2: go to work, he was a workaholic, he would come home.

526
00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 2: He didn't frequent pubs or clubs. I mean we would

527
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 2: go to clubs together, obviously, and we would see bands

528
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:42,600
Speaker 2: and stuff like that, but he was not a pub goer,

529
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:46,280
Speaker 2: not a huge heavy drinker. I mean we both drank,

530
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:49,400
Speaker 2: but not you know, to the point where he was

531
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 2: a drunk or doing it a day in and day out.

532
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:56,160
Speaker 2: It wasn't like that. Just I think he was a calm,

533
00:29:56,360 --> 00:30:00,440
Speaker 2: fairly calm person with me compared to what I know

534
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:05,200
Speaker 2: him to be now. I don't know how to explain it.

535
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 2: It's very hard to put it into words, but I

536
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 2: think I had a calming effect on him, and that's

537
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:13,200
Speaker 2: why he didn't get into any trouble in the time

538
00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:17,640
Speaker 2: that we were married. There was nothing, ever, ever, that

539
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:19,760
Speaker 2: was brought up or happened while we were married.

540
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:24,160
Speaker 1: I'm fascinated to get your insights about the relationship between

541
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 1: a young woman who would have looked up to someone

542
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:31,040
Speaker 1: like Kevin in the workplace and how much they trusted him.

543
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:34,560
Speaker 1: Could he be capable of abusing that trust?

544
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:40,000
Speaker 2: Absolutely absolutely. It'd work with quite a few young girls

545
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 2: over the years, and I couldn't tell you what the

546
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:46,280
Speaker 2: roles were of these girls, but I can remember one

547
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:47,880
Speaker 2: day and I'm trying to think of the name of

548
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:51,680
Speaker 2: the car Yad. I'd gone down to see him about something,

549
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 2: and I walked into his office and he was in

550
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:57,080
Speaker 2: there with this young girl and they were having lunch,

551
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:04,120
Speaker 2: and straight away I knew exactly what Kevin he was

552
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:08,960
Speaker 2: flirting with her. I knew that something was going on,

553
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 2: so I just Okay, I'll see you later, and I

554
00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:16,960
Speaker 2: just left. I I was just horrified and shocked. There

555
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:19,120
Speaker 2: was another time when he had his own kyard, which

556
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:22,840
Speaker 2: was the Okay corral and i'd gone there. I walked

557
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:25,320
Speaker 2: into his office again and there was this young girl

558
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:29,440
Speaker 2: in there having lunch together. Now, normally you don't do

559
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:32,840
Speaker 2: that with your yard person. They eat outside or you've

560
00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 2: got somewhere else for them to eat. But being that

561
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:37,320
Speaker 2: it was just a small car out of the okay,

562
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:40,240
Speaker 2: were they just having lunch together? But he said something

563
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:42,080
Speaker 2: to me, and I to this day I cannot remember,

564
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:44,480
Speaker 2: and I'm trying. I've tried so hard to remember what

565
00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:46,520
Speaker 2: it was that gave me the idea that there was

566
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:49,160
Speaker 2: something going on here. And I just left, and I

567
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:51,360
Speaker 2: can still remember because I had a brand new car

568
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:53,760
Speaker 2: and I backed out of the driveway the car and

569
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:56,280
Speaker 2: I just spun my wheels and left. And it was

570
00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:59,560
Speaker 2: first time I've ever spun my wheels in my life.

571
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:02,320
Speaker 2: And I was so angry about something. But honest to God,

572
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:03,520
Speaker 2: I cannot remember what it was.

573
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:09,520
Speaker 1: When did you hear about Rochelle's murder?

574
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:13,520
Speaker 2: I got a phone call from my sister that the

575
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:16,280
Speaker 2: police had been to. My sister lived at my mother's

576
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:19,840
Speaker 2: place and the police had been there and they said

577
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 2: it's to do with a murder. And my sister was

578
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:27,440
Speaker 2: just and my mum was absolutely shocked. You know they now,

579
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:30,640
Speaker 2: I would never have heard it anybody. But anyway, my

580
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 2: sister rang and said, you know, the police want to

581
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:36,960
Speaker 2: talk to you about this murder and give me a

582
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:40,000
Speaker 2: phone number for you to ring. I had no idea.

583
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 2: I as far as I could remember, I had not

584
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:46,400
Speaker 2: heard about the Rochelle Charles's case. I might have seen

585
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:48,880
Speaker 2: it on the news and not really paid attention to

586
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:50,720
Speaker 2: it or you know whatever, but I had not heard

587
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 2: about it until then when I rang the police and

588
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:56,640
Speaker 2: they told me that it would say they were looking

589
00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:59,280
Speaker 2: into Kevin. What year was that, two thousand and three?

590
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:01,280
Speaker 1: And did you talk to police?

591
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:01,640
Speaker 3: Yes?

592
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:04,400
Speaker 2: I did, Yes, They came out and visited me. Actually

593
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 2: they were probably there for about half an hour and

594
00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 2: I didn't hear from them again until it came up

595
00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 2: about a sheet that they'd found and the way they

596
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:17,720
Speaker 2: put it across. And I don't know if I read

597
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:19,560
Speaker 2: it in a newspaper or heard it on the news,

598
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 2: I'm not sure now, but it was an unusual sheet.

599
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:25,479
Speaker 2: And I remember this sheet that I had that was

600
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:30,720
Speaker 2: one of my mum's and she had it for a

601
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:34,920
Speaker 2: long long time, and it was a double bed, pure

602
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:37,920
Speaker 2: linen sheet. And linen back then was different to what

603
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:41,720
Speaker 2: linen sheets are now. It was a very heavy, thick material,

604
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:44,560
Speaker 2: and I knew I had one of those, and I'd

605
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:48,040
Speaker 2: left that behind when I'd left Kevin, and so that

606
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:51,280
Speaker 2: made me think, an unusual sheet. Well, there's not that

607
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:53,480
Speaker 2: many of those around anymore, so I thought it might

608
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 2: have been that sheet. So I rang the police and

609
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:57,160
Speaker 2: they said, can we bring it out and you have

610
00:33:57,200 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 2: a look. And as soon as I saw it, I

611
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:02,400
Speaker 2: knew it wasn't the sheet that I was thinking about,

612
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:05,280
Speaker 2: and I said, no, that's not the sheet I'm thinking

613
00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 2: about that. To me, that just looked like an everyday sheet.

614
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:13,720
Speaker 2: So I said no. So they left and then maybe

615
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:17,239
Speaker 2: I don't know, maybe six months later or something, they

616
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:19,600
Speaker 2: come out and visited again and wanted to have a chat.

617
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:23,800
Speaker 2: And I really can't remember anything much about the questions

618
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:25,840
Speaker 2: that they asked me, other than what kind of videos

619
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:29,239
Speaker 2: Kevin liked to watch. That's the only thing I can

620
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:30,719
Speaker 2: actually remember that They asked.

621
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:32,719
Speaker 1: Me, did you go and do a formal statement?

622
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:33,319
Speaker 3: No?

623
00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:36,000
Speaker 1: Were you called to give evidence at the US?

624
00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:36,600
Speaker 2: I was not.

625
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:38,600
Speaker 1: Did that surprise you would also?

626
00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:41,719
Speaker 2: Absolutely being that I'm probably the person that knewing the

627
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:46,359
Speaker 2: best out of anybody. You know, I spent thirteen years

628
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:49,200
Speaker 2: with him. Don't know anybody else that spent that long

629
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:51,280
Speaker 2: with him other than his parents.

630
00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:53,600
Speaker 1: Were you shocked in the sense that he was being

631
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 1: investigated over a murder?

632
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:58,160
Speaker 2: No, not really, not in that sense.

633
00:34:58,320 --> 00:34:58,400
Speaker 3: No.

634
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:02,720
Speaker 1: When police speaking to you about your relationship with Kevin,

635
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:05,719
Speaker 1: were you forthcoming with how he treated you?

636
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:08,920
Speaker 2: They didn't ask me. As far as I remember, they

637
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:12,840
Speaker 2: did not ask me. My mind was in a total

638
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:17,120
Speaker 2: fog with all that. I just I couldn't believe that

639
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:18,880
Speaker 2: poor girl was not yere anymore.

640
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:22,319
Speaker 1: Could you have been in a state of shock that

641
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:25,319
Speaker 1: you didn't feel comfortable in that moment to be forthcoming

642
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:26,320
Speaker 1: about his threats?

643
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:30,160
Speaker 2: And more than likely because I haven't really told anybody

644
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:34,120
Speaker 2: about them. I know I never told my mother any

645
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:39,640
Speaker 2: of that. She would have been absolutely devastated. I told

646
00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:41,720
Speaker 2: I might have told my daughter, I'm not sure.

647
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:45,200
Speaker 4: Yeah.

648
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:49,800
Speaker 2: Just the only person I've really told is my partner. Now, yeah,

649
00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:54,799
Speaker 2: that's who I remember. I definitely know I've told. Yeah,

650
00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:57,560
Speaker 2: I just I keep stuff like that to myself. You know,

651
00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:03,360
Speaker 2: I'm a very like the Royal family. Never never explain.

652
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:05,480
Speaker 2: I never complained, that's yeah.

653
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:07,479
Speaker 1: So what's prompted you to speak now?

654
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 2: Just as a mother?

655
00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:24,919
Speaker 1: Yes, these are difficult things to discuss. I'm sorry. I'm

656
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:28,960
Speaker 1: sorry you're going through this and you are willing to

657
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:33,080
Speaker 1: speak so freely about about that time in your life.

658
00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:36,040
Speaker 2: It was a time I tried. I just wanted to

659
00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:42,960
Speaker 2: forget it. I tried so hard to forget it. I'm

660
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:46,799
Speaker 2: embarrassed and ashamed that I even is.

661
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:52,840
Speaker 1: With him, Alice, You've done nothing wrong.

662
00:36:55,640 --> 00:37:11,759
Speaker 5: I just that poor girl, her parents, especially a mom.

663
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:10,719
Speaker 2: Her sister. I'm a sister, I'm a mother, and I

664
00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:15,200
Speaker 2: would that had happened to someone I loved. I would

665
00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:18,280
Speaker 2: want someone like me to come forward.

666
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:26,520
Speaker 1: You're being incredibly brave to speak out and talk.

667
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:33,600
Speaker 2: About I feel I feel sometimes like it's my fault.

668
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:37,000
Speaker 2: I thought I'd brought it all on myself by being

669
00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:43,279
Speaker 2: young and stupid, and I was a single mom for

670
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:47,040
Speaker 2: quite a while, and I was so happy to have

671
00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:49,799
Speaker 2: someone in my life that was going to help me.

672
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:52,720
Speaker 2: That that's what it felt like to start with that.

673
00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:55,239
Speaker 2: That certainly changed later on because he was not nice

674
00:37:55,239 --> 00:38:00,200
Speaker 2: to my kids at all. He started off very as

675
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:03,759
Speaker 2: to them. He had them totally fooled as well. And

676
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:06,520
Speaker 2: then he showed his true colors there as well. And

677
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:10,880
Speaker 2: I will never forgive him to that. He put a

678
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:11,959
Speaker 2: wedge between.

679
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:23,040
Speaker 6: My kids at night. That took a long chime. It

680
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:24,160
Speaker 6: took a long time to me.

681
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:26,960
Speaker 2: To repair it.

682
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:45,960
Speaker 7: Get a stake, let's have a break, Okay.

683
00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:51,080
Speaker 1: What sort of a father was Kevin.

684
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:54,080
Speaker 2: He was a very loving dad with his kids. He

685
00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:59,239
Speaker 2: was very attentive towards them, probably too much. He was

686
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:04,520
Speaker 2: a bit overbearing with them, but yeah, he was. I

687
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:06,160
Speaker 2: would say he's a good daddy. He's very good with

688
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:10,080
Speaker 2: small children, not so good with older children.

689
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:12,040
Speaker 1: Can you tell me about his family?

690
00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:20,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're an entity on their own. That family, I

691
00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:22,960
Speaker 2: just say, I've never ever met another family like it.

692
00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:26,560
Speaker 2: I don't particularly want to meet another family like it.

693
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:33,120
Speaker 2: Just a very strange, very strange group of people. Things

694
00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:38,520
Speaker 2: that were set around the lunch table and stuff like that.

695
00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:41,359
Speaker 2: That just absolutely shocked me. I don't actually think they

696
00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:45,920
Speaker 2: were a family like everybody thinks of a family. As

697
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:48,640
Speaker 2: I said, they're in an entity of all on their own.

698
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 1: I was interested to ask Elise what memories she had

699
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:55,320
Speaker 1: of Kevin's brother, Raymond Cornwall. She was married to Kevin

700
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:58,799
Speaker 1: when police arrested him for a series of sex attacks,

701
00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:01,960
Speaker 1: including the rape of a thirteen year old girl.

702
00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:08,160
Speaker 2: Yes, I've met Raymond of God. Yeah. Never really liked Raymond.

703
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:11,799
Speaker 2: He always seemed very sleezy to me. I remember one

704
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:16,200
Speaker 2: day I was in their dining room and the dining

705
00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:19,000
Speaker 2: table and Raymond was sitting there and I was standing

706
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:21,319
Speaker 2: to his left and I had a pair of short

707
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:24,440
Speaker 2: shorts on because I was quite slim back then, and

708
00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:26,600
Speaker 2: he just run his hand up the back of my leg,

709
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:28,719
Speaker 2: and you know, it made me jump away, and I

710
00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:31,680
Speaker 2: knocked his hand and I said, raym and don't do that.

711
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:33,239
Speaker 2: And Ken said, what did you do? I said, rub

712
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:34,600
Speaker 2: his hand up my leg, and he just laughed. He

713
00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:37,080
Speaker 2: thought it was funny, and the whole family laughed. They

714
00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:39,160
Speaker 2: thought it was funny. I didn't think it was funny,

715
00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:43,279
Speaker 2: Just sleazy things like that. Yeah. The only thing I

716
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:46,680
Speaker 2: ever saw that was really strange with Raymond was he

717
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:49,319
Speaker 2: came home from work one day, he went into his

718
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:51,960
Speaker 2: bedroom and he didn't come out for twelve months, only

719
00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:55,440
Speaker 2: to have a shower and eat. That was it. He

720
00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:58,239
Speaker 2: stayed in his bedroom for twelve months. And then I

721
00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:00,560
Speaker 2: found out later on obviously it was because the police

722
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:03,040
Speaker 2: were looking for him.

723
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:05,840
Speaker 1: And when they found him, Raymond confessed to his sickening

724
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:08,359
Speaker 1: crimes and went on to spend most of the next

725
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:15,640
Speaker 1: two decades behind bars. And what about Kevin's dad.

726
00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:19,640
Speaker 2: He was a sane He was a sleeve as well. Yeah,

727
00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:21,040
Speaker 2: you had to give him a kiss on the cheek

728
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:23,759
Speaker 2: when you came in. So you go to give him

729
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:25,680
Speaker 2: a kiss on the cheek and he turned his face

730
00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:28,239
Speaker 2: and tried to stick his tongue down your throat, and

731
00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:30,720
Speaker 2: everybody laughed at that. They all thought that was really funny.

732
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:32,239
Speaker 1: How many siblings does Kevin have?

733
00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:35,000
Speaker 2: Twelve? There was thirteen of them, and have any of

734
00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:40,279
Speaker 2: them passed? I only know if his younger brother, Victor. Yeah,

735
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:44,000
Speaker 2: he committed suicide while I was with Kevin.

736
00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:46,560
Speaker 1: Did that come as a shock his suicide.

737
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:49,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, actually it did because he had two or three

738
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:52,160
Speaker 2: I'm not sure if there was three children. I think

739
00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:55,680
Speaker 2: he might have had three very young children at that stage.

740
00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:57,440
Speaker 2: So yeah, it did shock me.

741
00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:01,160
Speaker 1: What sort of a stepfather was Kevin started, Well.

742
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:03,000
Speaker 2: He wasn't a step father to them then, but when

743
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:06,960
Speaker 2: we were first dating and that he was wonderful with

744
00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:09,520
Speaker 2: my kids. He was Yeah, he s bought them rotten.

745
00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:12,239
Speaker 2: They thought he was the ant pants. He was just

746
00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:16,640
Speaker 2: wonderful to them, and then he just slowly started to

747
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:20,239
Speaker 2: turn on them, and the majority of it went to

748
00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:24,520
Speaker 2: my son. I don't know why he chose to do

749
00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:28,400
Speaker 2: that to my son. Maybe it was a personality conflict.

750
00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:31,480
Speaker 2: I don't know, I could. I don't understand that because

751
00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:34,399
Speaker 2: he was the adult and my son was only seven

752
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:36,600
Speaker 2: years old, you know, that's how old he was when

753
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:39,080
Speaker 2: actually Kevin was at his seventh birthday, so he was

754
00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:46,800
Speaker 2: just turning seven. And yeah, he changed towards my kids

755
00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:50,520
Speaker 2: and he was just he was better towards my daughter,

756
00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:55,080
Speaker 2: but still he could be very, very nasty. He bought

757
00:42:55,080 --> 00:43:00,360
Speaker 2: her a bedroom set at one stage, and then he

758
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:03,600
Speaker 2: got really angry with her over something I can't remember

759
00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:07,560
Speaker 2: what it was. So he sold her bedroom set and

760
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:09,360
Speaker 2: then he brought it back for her, and when they

761
00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:12,520
Speaker 2: made up, like bought a similar one. It wasn't the

762
00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:16,200
Speaker 2: same one back, but he bought another bedroom set for her,

763
00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:19,640
Speaker 2: you know, just things like making sure their life wasn't

764
00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:21,600
Speaker 2: on an even keel. He was up and down and

765
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:28,280
Speaker 2: up and down. It was. Yeah, he was really horrible

766
00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:30,480
Speaker 2: to them, really horrible to them.

767
00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:34,160
Speaker 1: How would you describe the Kevin Carrell that you learned

768
00:43:35,040 --> 00:43:35,399
Speaker 1: to be.

769
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:49,200
Speaker 2: With sneaky, conniving, a liar, then, on the other hand, charismatic, funny, charming, generous,

770
00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:54,040
Speaker 2: fun to be around. Everybody liked him. I don't think

771
00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:56,000
Speaker 2: I ever met a person while I was with him

772
00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:59,640
Speaker 2: that did not like him. In our friend group that

773
00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:01,959
Speaker 2: we made. I knew there were people obviously that didn't

774
00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:05,920
Speaker 2: like Kevin from before I knew him, because he just

775
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:08,960
Speaker 2: had this thing that he could he could just weave

776
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:13,880
Speaker 2: this little magic spell over people somehow, and yeah, everybody

777
00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:14,879
Speaker 2: thought he was a great guy.

778
00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:18,239
Speaker 1: Is there any way you can put into words of

779
00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:22,239
Speaker 1: how much hurt and pain Kevin has caused you and

780
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:23,000
Speaker 1: your loved ones?

781
00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:37,040
Speaker 2: There? I know what's But if I could go back,

782
00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:42,719
Speaker 2: I wouldn't be here because I would never have known him.

783
00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:44,239
Speaker 2: I would I mean, I would have known him, but

784
00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:47,279
Speaker 2: I wouldn't have been ever been with him. And if

785
00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:52,960
Speaker 2: I had listened to other people, I still wouldn't be

786
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:55,480
Speaker 2: here today because I wouldn't have been with him. But

787
00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:58,279
Speaker 2: I wouldn't listen to other people. I thought I knew better.

788
00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:01,719
Speaker 2: I thought I was an adult and I wasn't I was.

789
00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:11,400
Speaker 2: I was too easily influenced, and yeah, I just it

790
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:14,920
Speaker 2: would not have happened. If if I was a person

791
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:17,800
Speaker 2: then what I am today, that would never have happened.

792
00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:23,440
Speaker 1: When you think about Rochelle and the victim in this story,

793
00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:28,640
Speaker 1: how does it leave your feeling devastated.

794
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:35,239
Speaker 2: From day one? I just I've thought about that poor

795
00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:37,560
Speaker 2: girls so many times over the years.

796
00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:41,240
Speaker 1: Now we have one of the members.

797
00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:53,800
Speaker 2: Of Rocky's team, ye and the other and as I

798
00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:57,560
Speaker 2: set before, as a mum and as a sister, I

799
00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:02,799
Speaker 2: can't imagine what they've been going through. And if that

800
00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:05,839
Speaker 2: was someone I loved and it had been going on

801
00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:11,680
Speaker 2: this long, I would absolutely be beside myself and I

802
00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:15,320
Speaker 2: would pray that somebody would come forward that could help.

803
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:19,560
Speaker 2: And that's why I wanted to do this. I didn't

804
00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:22,720
Speaker 2: want to do this by any means. I thought about

805
00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:25,440
Speaker 2: not doing it. I just couldn't stand the thought of

806
00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:28,040
Speaker 2: thought that poor mother and her sister and her father

807
00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:31,719
Speaker 2: are going through with this. I just thought if I

808
00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:34,399
Speaker 2: could help in any little way, any little way at all,

809
00:46:34,719 --> 00:46:37,279
Speaker 2: then I wanted to do that. It'd be probably one

810
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:39,400
Speaker 2: of the good things that I've done in my life.

811
00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:46,880
Speaker 1: Was Kevin a misogynist. How did he view women? I

812
00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:52,000
Speaker 1: think he had a very low opinion of women, very much. So, Yeah,

813
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:55,680
Speaker 1: I just I don't think he liked women in general.

814
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:58,719
Speaker 2: I really don't. I think he found them probably threatening.

815
00:46:59,840 --> 00:47:06,640
Speaker 2: I think he thought they were second class citizens. I

816
00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:11,000
Speaker 2: think he thought we were just he put on earth

817
00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:15,839
Speaker 2: for men. Yeah, that was my impression I got from

818
00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:17,280
Speaker 2: him over the years. Yeah.

819
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:21,279
Speaker 1: Would you be willing to talk to police now about

820
00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:23,960
Speaker 1: your relationship with Kevin and those threats?

821
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:28,880
Speaker 2: Absolutely? Yeah, absolutely. I don't have that fear that I

822
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:32,319
Speaker 2: had before. I mean, I'm still worried about what is

823
00:47:32,600 --> 00:47:38,040
Speaker 2: going to think when he hears this, But he's older now,

824
00:47:38,200 --> 00:47:41,640
Speaker 2: so I don't have and I'm stronger, so I don't

825
00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:43,960
Speaker 2: have that fear that I used to have.

826
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:47,120
Speaker 1: What would you say to anyone that is holding back

827
00:47:47,360 --> 00:47:48,720
Speaker 1: information from police?

828
00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:52,879
Speaker 2: Please don't. It's hard. I know it's hard, especially if

829
00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:57,960
Speaker 2: you were close to Kevin. You don't owe him anything,

830
00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:02,359
Speaker 2: You don't owe him any loyalty whatsoever. He would never

831
00:48:02,680 --> 00:48:09,960
Speaker 2: do that for you. He would just help bring justice

832
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:13,359
Speaker 2: for Michelle, for her sister, for her mother and her

833
00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:17,520
Speaker 2: father and anybody else that loved Rochelle. Just give them

834
00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:18,320
Speaker 2: peace of mind.

835
00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:21,440
Speaker 1: I've got something to show you you ready.

836
00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:25,920
Speaker 4: Hi, I'm Christie, I'm Rochelle's sister. I just wanted to

837
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:28,680
Speaker 4: send you a message just to thank you for being

838
00:48:28,719 --> 00:48:33,360
Speaker 4: willing to talk about your relationship and your experiences with Kevin,

839
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:36,080
Speaker 4: which I can only imagine it's going to be hard

840
00:48:36,160 --> 00:48:39,839
Speaker 4: to relive. So thank you so much for doing.

841
00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:40,200
Speaker 2: This for Michelle.

842
00:48:41,200 --> 00:48:43,000
Speaker 3: We really really appreciate your.

843
00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:47,640
Speaker 4: Support, and so does my mum. It's women like you

844
00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:52,680
Speaker 4: who make our team really, really strong, and I just

845
00:48:52,719 --> 00:48:56,319
Speaker 4: really thank you for standing up and standing with us.

846
00:48:56,640 --> 00:49:00,880
Speaker 4: And I just think you're incredibly fucking brave. So welcome

847
00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:01,480
Speaker 4: to Teamshell.

848
00:49:08,719 --> 00:49:09,320
Speaker 2: That's lovely.

849
00:49:11,120 --> 00:49:15,279
Speaker 1: Do you feel proud of yourself for doing this?

850
00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:19,279
Speaker 2: I just don't feel proud. I don't feel proud. I

851
00:49:19,360 --> 00:49:27,160
Speaker 2: feel I feel like I am trying to find the words.

852
00:49:28,320 --> 00:49:31,560
Speaker 2: I feel like I'm giving or helping, helping get them

853
00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:38,560
Speaker 2: a gift, hopefully the gift for a solution. You know

854
00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:42,520
Speaker 2: that they can maybe sleep a little bit better at night.

855
00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:47,040
Speaker 2: And as has said, it's coming way too late, way

856
00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:49,399
Speaker 2: way too late. They should have had this a long

857
00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:55,400
Speaker 2: time ago, and somebody should have been paying for it

858
00:49:55,520 --> 00:49:58,040
Speaker 2: a long time ago. To have had all those years

859
00:49:58,080 --> 00:50:01,879
Speaker 2: out there just living their life the way that you know,

860
00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:10,080
Speaker 2: not missing out on anything, and Rashel missed out on everything.

861
00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:13,520
Speaker 1: You've shown so much courage having this discussion with me

862
00:50:13,840 --> 00:50:16,520
Speaker 1: about a traumatic time in your life, and we are

863
00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:17,600
Speaker 1: extremely grateful.

864
00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:19,960
Speaker 2: The worst part of is now I'm going to think

865
00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:22,120
Speaker 2: about it all over again, and I was trying to

866
00:50:22,120 --> 00:50:25,880
Speaker 2: get over it. That's the hard part for me, because

867
00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:28,040
Speaker 2: I just I never wanted to think about him again.

868
00:50:28,080 --> 00:50:32,120
Speaker 2: And I can honestly say he might have over the

869
00:50:33,120 --> 00:50:37,440
Speaker 2: last twenty eight years popped into my head maybe half

870
00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:40,960
Speaker 2: a dozen times if that, and the only reason of

871
00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:44,640
Speaker 2: that is because of this case. Otherwise I would not

872
00:50:44,680 --> 00:50:47,560
Speaker 2: have thought about him at all.

873
00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:50,680
Speaker 1: What do you want people to know about Kevin Correll.

874
00:50:53,840 --> 00:51:01,560
Speaker 2: Is not to be trusted. Just run as fast as

875
00:51:01,600 --> 00:51:05,319
Speaker 2: you can do not be anywhere near this man. If

876
00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:12,120
Speaker 2: you're a friend, if you're involved with him, just he

877
00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:16,600
Speaker 2: will only cause you grief and you don't need grief

878
00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:19,040
Speaker 2: in your life. Life is too short. Just do not

879
00:51:19,080 --> 00:51:19,680
Speaker 2: be involved.

880
00:51:20,200 --> 00:51:22,319
Speaker 1: Do you think that Kevin played on your vulnerability?

881
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:26,000
Speaker 2: Absolutely? Now I look back, Yes, absolutely, absolutely he did.

882
00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:43,560
Speaker 1: Yep, absolutely, I put Elsa's accusations to Kevin Correll and

883
00:51:43,719 --> 00:51:48,240
Speaker 1: hours before we publish this episode, he responded, I emailed

884
00:51:48,320 --> 00:51:52,279
Speaker 1: Kevin this, Hi, Kevin, I think it's important to tell

885
00:51:52,320 --> 00:51:55,000
Speaker 1: your side of the story, not just in relation to

886
00:51:55,080 --> 00:51:59,080
Speaker 1: Rachelle's case, but also fresh allegations from your ex wife.

887
00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:02,440
Speaker 1: These are the latest questions I put to him.

888
00:52:02,840 --> 00:52:04,280
Speaker 2: One did you ever.

889
00:52:04,160 --> 00:52:07,279
Speaker 1: Threaten to kill Elise and bury her body parts at

890
00:52:07,280 --> 00:52:10,160
Speaker 1: Wrilla Beach and cover her body in line?

891
00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:11,279
Speaker 2: Two?

892
00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:16,040
Speaker 1: Did you ever physically assault Elise during your marriage? Three?

893
00:52:16,560 --> 00:52:19,160
Speaker 1: Did you threaten to kill her and bury her at

894
00:52:19,239 --> 00:52:20,000
Speaker 1: Jiroa Beach?

895
00:52:21,160 --> 00:52:21,399
Speaker 2: Four?

896
00:52:21,880 --> 00:52:24,440
Speaker 1: Did you ever behave in a way which was intended

897
00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:28,200
Speaker 1: to leave Elise in view of her life? I look

898
00:52:28,239 --> 00:52:33,120
Speaker 1: forward to your response, and here it is ree your

899
00:52:33,160 --> 00:52:37,200
Speaker 1: fair and balanced inquiry. From the sensationalized headlines to your

900
00:52:37,239 --> 00:52:41,560
Speaker 1: fresh allegations. Nothing has been fair and balanced during this investigation.

901
00:52:42,440 --> 00:52:45,560
Speaker 1: Over the past twenty three years, I've been interviewed by

902
00:52:45,640 --> 00:52:50,920
Speaker 1: detectives numerous times. I've attended the inquest and cooperated with police,

903
00:52:50,960 --> 00:52:55,439
Speaker 1: supplying my DNA and answering all their questions. The new

904
00:52:55,600 --> 00:52:59,560
Speaker 1: allegations from my ex wife should help your podcast ratings

905
00:53:00,120 --> 00:53:03,600
Speaker 1: sell your newspaper, so I will answer your four questions.

906
00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:07,840
Speaker 1: I vehemently deny these allegations and the answer is no

907
00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:19,080
Speaker 1: to all four questions. Sincerely, Kevin Correll coming soon on

908
00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:24,200
Speaker 1: Dear Rochelle. Have you still got eyes on his car? Yeah?

909
00:53:24,239 --> 00:53:26,360
Speaker 2: I'm right behind it. And the way he did is

910
00:53:26,440 --> 00:53:28,600
Speaker 2: to watch the shell. I can picture him now, just

911
00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:31,560
Speaker 2: sort of like leering at her. Okay, he's just John

912
00:53:31,640 --> 00:53:32,239
Speaker 2: the Red Lake.

913
00:53:32,320 --> 00:53:35,040
Speaker 1: And I said to him, you know exactly who I am.

914
00:53:35,160 --> 00:53:36,680
Speaker 4: He got out of the vehicle and as he did

915
00:53:36,680 --> 00:53:38,640
Speaker 4: so with his hands up, his pants came down.

916
00:53:39,320 --> 00:53:43,600
Speaker 1: His doors are grooms, He's in and around everything like

917
00:53:43,640 --> 00:53:47,440
Speaker 1: he's just there and exactly what I can tell these people.

918
00:53:47,640 --> 00:53:49,359
Speaker 2: So you need to get out of my.

919
00:53:49,440 --> 00:53:52,759
Speaker 1: Way, Kevin Corral, I'm actually Hanson. I'm a journalist from

920
00:53:52,800 --> 00:53:53,279
Speaker 1: News Corp.

921
00:54:00,360 --> 00:54:01,839
Speaker 2: Other way, watch out, Dan.

922
00:54:09,719 --> 00:54:13,239
Speaker 1: Dear Rochelle is a multi media production from True Crime Australia.

923
00:54:13,800 --> 00:54:15,319
Speaker 1: If you want to be one of the first to

924
00:54:15,360 --> 00:54:18,759
Speaker 1: find out what happens next, go to Dear Roshelle dot

925
00:54:18,800 --> 00:54:22,800
Speaker 1: com dot au. That's where eligible Digital News Corp Australia

926
00:54:22,800 --> 00:54:27,480
Speaker 1: subscribers get early access to podcast episodes and breaking news

927
00:54:27,520 --> 00:54:31,760
Speaker 1: in our live investigation and you will also find exclusive videos,

928
00:54:32,000 --> 00:54:36,319
Speaker 1: interactive evidence, feature articles and more. That's Deroshelle dot com

929
00:54:36,360 --> 00:54:36,600
Speaker 1: dot A.

930
00:54:36,719 --> 00:54:36,759
Speaker 3: You.

931
00:54:37,440 --> 00:54:40,399
Speaker 1: If you have any tips or confidential information to share

932
00:54:40,440 --> 00:54:44,000
Speaker 1: with me, Ashley Hanson, please send an email to de

933
00:54:44,200 --> 00:54:48,640
Speaker 1: Roshelle at news dot com dot AU. Our supervising producer

934
00:54:48,640 --> 00:54:52,480
Speaker 1: and audio editor is Rehees Gunter Rachel Fountain, his executive

935
00:54:52,480 --> 00:54:56,680
Speaker 1: producer and audio director. Our executive editor is Sarah Blake.

936
00:54:57,239 --> 00:55:00,839
Speaker 1: Our senior jour list is Patrick Carline. Video editors are

937
00:55:00,880 --> 00:55:04,840
Speaker 1: Gillian McNally, Owen Yang and Stephen Woods. Picture editors are

938
00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:08,279
Speaker 1: Jeff dr Mannon and Christy Miller Sydney. Camera operators are

939
00:55:08,320 --> 00:55:12,320
Speaker 1: Daniel Andrews and Oscar Vieira. We Sound designed by Martin Perolta.

940
00:55:12,960 --> 00:55:16,240
Speaker 1: Thanks also to Greg Thompson and Lennie Pinerz, Show Burreo

941
00:55:16,520 --> 00:55:21,000
Speaker 1: Fay Gould, Vanessa Graham, Hailey Goddard, Stephen Grice, Charlotte Carp,

942
00:55:21,280 --> 00:55:25,120
Speaker 1: Tina Coggins and Harry Hughes. Special thanks to the Daily

943
00:55:25,160 --> 00:55:28,759
Speaker 1: Telegraph editor Ben English and dear Rochelle would not be

944
00:55:28,840 --> 00:55:32,240
Speaker 1: possible without the help and I'm wavering support of Christi

945
00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:36,280
Speaker 1: and Ann Childs, Mindy Wick's, Damian Loon and Rochelle's friends

946
00:55:39,200 --> 00:55:43,600
Speaker 1: This podcast series is hosted and investigated by me Ashley Hanson.