1 00:00:04,140 --> 00:00:06,690 Sean Aylmer : Welcome to the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. I'm Sean 2 00:00:06,690 --> 00:00:11,160 Sean Aylmer : Aylmer with unemployment so low, it's really a job seekers 3 00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:13,500 Sean Aylmer : market right now. It's putting a lot of pressure on 4 00:00:13,500 --> 00:00:16,530 Sean Aylmer : companies to attract workers and that's prompted a warning from 5 00:00:16,530 --> 00:00:21,689 Sean Aylmer : leading recruiter Randstad about job washing, over promising and under 6 00:00:21,690 --> 00:00:25,800 Sean Aylmer : delivering in a tight labor market. Angela Anasis the Executive 7 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:29,820 Sean Aylmer : General Manager at Randstad Australia. Angela, welcome to Fear and Greed. 8 00:00:30,300 --> 00:00:30,840 Angela Anasis: Hello. 9 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:34,560 Sean Aylmer : I've heard about green washing, job washing. Tell me about 10 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:35,070 Sean Aylmer : it. What is it? 11 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:39,239 Angela Anasis: Job washing, well you nailed it, right at the introduction 12 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:43,110 Angela Anasis: there, where employees over promise and under deliver to secure 13 00:00:43,110 --> 00:00:46,860 Angela Anasis: talent in these really tight labor market that we have 14 00:00:46,860 --> 00:00:49,260 Angela Anasis: at the moment. I mean, gosh, 50 year lows of 15 00:00:49,260 --> 00:00:53,010 Angela Anasis: unemployment rate, acute talent shortages in so many areas of the 16 00:00:53,010 --> 00:00:57,540 Angela Anasis: economy. Yeah, it can be pretty easy for an employer 17 00:00:57,540 --> 00:01:02,070 Angela Anasis: to get very passionate about securing talent, particularly when their 18 00:01:02,250 --> 00:01:05,430 Angela Anasis: vacancies may be taking a lot longer to secure as 19 00:01:05,430 --> 00:01:09,179 Angela Anasis: well and they've got their existing workforce that have probably 20 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:13,140 Angela Anasis: overworked as well. So yeah, little bit of that is certainly 21 00:01:13,140 --> 00:01:17,100 Angela Anasis: going on and we are certainly warning employers just to 22 00:01:17,250 --> 00:01:20,760 Angela Anasis: hold fire a little bit. You may get a short 23 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:24,240 Angela Anasis: term benefit, but it won't be good in the long term. 24 00:01:24,540 --> 00:01:27,030 Sean Aylmer : Okay. So I mean I totally understand why someone would 25 00:01:27,030 --> 00:01:29,580 Sean Aylmer : do it now in businesses that I'm in, trying to 26 00:01:29,580 --> 00:01:33,660 Sean Aylmer : find people is really, really challenging. Is it happening more 27 00:01:33,660 --> 00:01:36,690 Sean Aylmer : now because of the tight labor market than previously? 28 00:01:37,110 --> 00:01:43,800 Angela Anasis: Yes. What we're seeing is that there is an uptick and organizations 29 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:47,640 Angela Anasis: have certainly looked at employee branding, so they're reviewing it 30 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:50,220 Angela Anasis: at the moment. They know it's really important to have 31 00:01:50,250 --> 00:01:56,100 Angela Anasis: a great value proposition and really speak to candidates directly. 32 00:01:56,640 --> 00:02:03,600 Angela Anasis: However, what we are seeing is that ability of reality, versus the 33 00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:09,090 Angela Anasis: promise and that employee experience, may actually differ. So we 34 00:02:09,090 --> 00:02:11,040 Angela Anasis: are seeing that a little bit more than what we 35 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:15,270 Angela Anasis: have seen previously and we're certainly probably putting it down to 36 00:02:15,270 --> 00:02:18,450 Angela Anasis: the fact that the market is fairly tight in so 37 00:02:18,450 --> 00:02:19,710 Angela Anasis: many different areas. 38 00:02:20,010 --> 00:02:22,200 Sean Aylmer : Do you ever hear stories of people getting a job 39 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:26,520 Sean Aylmer : and being really upset because it's not what they thought 40 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:27,990 Sean Aylmer : it would be? I mean, I think most of us 41 00:02:27,990 --> 00:02:30,030 Sean Aylmer : go to a job and the first couple of days 42 00:02:30,030 --> 00:02:32,070 Sean Aylmer : aren't real good. Once you get into it, you work 43 00:02:32,070 --> 00:02:34,440 Sean Aylmer : out whether you like it or not. But in this 44 00:02:34,500 --> 00:02:38,280 Sean Aylmer : instance if people are over promising, it would be very 45 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:40,530 Sean Aylmer : frustrating to take a new job and get there and 46 00:02:40,530 --> 00:02:42,540 Sean Aylmer : just realize it's not what was promised. 47 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:47,609 Angela Anasis: Absolutely. Yeah, it's a broken promise. This is an emotional 48 00:02:47,610 --> 00:02:51,389 Angela Anasis: contract that you're having with your employer and your hiring 49 00:02:51,389 --> 00:02:55,200 Angela Anasis: leader that you're so excited. I mean, gosh, people have 50 00:02:55,620 --> 00:03:02,190 Angela Anasis: resigned, taken completely different alternative, potentially, career paths as well. 51 00:03:02,610 --> 00:03:07,500 Angela Anasis: So there's a lot vested in this emotional kind of 52 00:03:07,500 --> 00:03:11,700 Angela Anasis: contract that we have, and certainly, we're seeing a lot 53 00:03:11,700 --> 00:03:14,940 Angela Anasis: of angst around that. And some of that is, after 54 00:03:14,940 --> 00:03:17,970 Angela Anasis: they may actually start, but what we're also seeing is 55 00:03:18,450 --> 00:03:21,600 Angela Anasis: a lot more than what we have seen previously, in 56 00:03:21,630 --> 00:03:24,570 Angela Anasis: different types of markets, is some of them don't actually 57 00:03:24,570 --> 00:03:31,410 Angela Anasis: even start. What we are seeing is employees being far more savvy, 58 00:03:31,410 --> 00:03:35,040 Angela Anasis: or candidates being far more savvy, they may accept a 59 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:39,270 Angela Anasis: role, but they may do some background checks themselves, unofficially, 60 00:03:39,570 --> 00:03:43,290 Angela Anasis: on the organization as well and if that doesn't line 61 00:03:43,290 --> 00:03:46,890 Angela Anasis: up, they may not even start. Then an employer has 62 00:03:46,890 --> 00:03:51,090 Angela Anasis: to start all over again on their recruitment exercise, which 63 00:03:51,090 --> 00:03:55,560 Angela Anasis: can be really costly and really frustrating for all involved. 64 00:03:55,890 --> 00:03:57,960 Sean Aylmer : Stay with me, Angela will be back in a minute. 65 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:08,250 Sean Aylmer : I'm speaking to Angela Anasis, Executive General Manager at Randstad 66 00:04:08,340 --> 00:04:12,330 Sean Aylmer : Australia. Okay. So let's talk about what employers should be 67 00:04:12,330 --> 00:04:16,560 Sean Aylmer : offering candidates. Obviously they shouldn't be job washing, but there 68 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:19,710 Sean Aylmer : must be a bunch of benefits that people in a 69 00:04:19,710 --> 00:04:23,520 Sean Aylmer : job seekers market not only are looking for but can 70 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:27,180 Sean Aylmer : almost demand. I mean, do you have any, I suppose, 71 00:04:27,180 --> 00:04:30,599 Sean Aylmer : tips and advice for employers out there, how they should 72 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:32,640 Sean Aylmer : run their business, what they should be offering people? 73 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:36,570 Angela Anasis: Yeah, well we've also conducted some other research which is 74 00:04:36,570 --> 00:04:40,080 Angela Anasis: about employee branding and when we ask the question, what 75 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:43,860 Angela Anasis: makes a great employer? Salary and benefits were certainly up 76 00:04:43,860 --> 00:04:46,169 Angela Anasis: there and you can certainly see with the extent that 77 00:04:46,170 --> 00:04:49,950 Angela Anasis: we're talking about, which is real wages have declined on 78 00:04:49,950 --> 00:04:53,730 Angela Anasis: the whole. Without that though, if they can't move the 79 00:04:53,730 --> 00:04:58,080 Angela Anasis: salary and benefits, number two is work life balance. So 80 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:03,359 Angela Anasis: that is a really critical component, top three type of 81 00:05:03,690 --> 00:05:07,170 Angela Anasis: area that you can really actually put a lot of 82 00:05:07,500 --> 00:05:10,170 Angela Anasis: focus on, which is really important to so many different 83 00:05:10,170 --> 00:05:14,700 Angela Anasis: cohorts across all different age demographics and gender and male 84 00:05:14,700 --> 00:05:20,039 Angela Anasis: and female across the board. Those things, those levers, but 85 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:24,059 Angela Anasis: again, you have to be really open and honest. Flexibility 86 00:05:24,630 --> 00:05:27,630 Angela Anasis: could mean different things for different people. It could mean 87 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:32,250 Angela Anasis: hybrid, everyone's talking hybrid workplaces, what does that mean for 88 00:05:32,250 --> 00:05:36,210 Angela Anasis: that particular workplace? Does it mean that you know need 89 00:05:36,210 --> 00:05:39,060 Angela Anasis: to be in the office on set times or can you 90 00:05:39,060 --> 00:05:41,339 Angela Anasis: come in on any day of the week for those 91 00:05:41,339 --> 00:05:44,219 Angela Anasis: two days or three days? So you have to be 92 00:05:44,220 --> 00:05:48,450 Angela Anasis: really, really specific on what it is that you are 93 00:05:48,450 --> 00:05:53,250 Angela Anasis: offering and being really honest about that as well. Other 94 00:05:53,250 --> 00:05:59,430 Angela Anasis: areas that we are certainly seeing concern, or where we're organizations can 95 00:05:59,430 --> 00:06:02,370 Angela Anasis: really talk about it, honestly though, I would say, just 96 00:06:03,029 --> 00:06:09,539 Angela Anasis: particularly around values and purpose. People are looking for much 97 00:06:09,540 --> 00:06:13,110 Angela Anasis: more than just doing a great job. They're certainly looking 98 00:06:13,110 --> 00:06:16,170 Angela Anasis: for things that are going to be more meaningful for 99 00:06:16,170 --> 00:06:21,120 Angela Anasis: them and what we've also seen is the younger cohorts and those in 100 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:25,920 Angela Anasis: Gen Z, young millennials as an example, that is really, 101 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:30,240 Angela Anasis: really important for them. What we've also seen is if it 102 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:34,320 Angela Anasis: doesn't align with their values and environmental issues, up to 103 00:06:34,650 --> 00:06:39,270 Angela Anasis: 59% wouldn't accept a job if it didn't align with that. 104 00:06:39,510 --> 00:06:44,730 Angela Anasis: So if, for instance, an employer talks about it and probably 105 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:47,640 Angela Anasis: talks those kind of credentials, there can be a real 106 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:51,839 Angela Anasis: mismatch as well when they arrive if that's not actually 107 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:56,460 Angela Anasis: authentic and true. I think younger cohorts, they're pretty savvy. 108 00:06:56,520 --> 00:06:59,520 Angela Anasis: They certainly look things up and there's lots of different 109 00:06:59,820 --> 00:07:02,520 Angela Anasis: socials that you can look up to see whether or 110 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:07,320 Angela Anasis: not an employee's actually following through on those areas as well. 111 00:07:07,710 --> 00:07:11,100 Sean Aylmer : Would you ever recommend to companies and employers that, you're 112 00:07:11,100 --> 00:07:13,860 Sean Aylmer : talking about being honest and open, they actually give them 113 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:17,370 Sean Aylmer : the bad stuff as well? So I've certainly been to 114 00:07:17,370 --> 00:07:20,010 Sean Aylmer : interviews where people have said, " This is the good stuff 115 00:07:20,010 --> 00:07:22,860 Sean Aylmer : and this is the challenges," and I've really appreciated it 116 00:07:22,860 --> 00:07:25,800 Sean Aylmer : because it actually makes... I mean no workplace is a 117 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:26,730 Sean Aylmer : hundred percent perfect. 118 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:28,020 Angela Anasis: Absolutely. 119 00:07:28,020 --> 00:07:28,740 Sean Aylmer : Yeah. Does it happen? 120 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:32,970 Angela Anasis: Yeah, absolutely. I think you're absolutely correct there. I mean 121 00:07:33,300 --> 00:07:36,180 Angela Anasis: a lot of candidates... It can also seem a little 122 00:07:36,180 --> 00:07:38,640 Angela Anasis: bit too good to be true, if you don't actually 123 00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:42,809 Angela Anasis: hear any of the challenges. Or say, for instance, a 124 00:07:42,810 --> 00:07:46,740 Angela Anasis: lot of organizations are looking at DE& I, and that's 125 00:07:46,740 --> 00:07:50,610 Angela Anasis: really important for a number of people, again talking about 126 00:07:50,610 --> 00:07:54,660 Angela Anasis: purpose and values, but they may not be perfect in that arena, but they 127 00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:57,990 Angela Anasis: can talk about the fact that they're on their pathway 128 00:07:57,990 --> 00:08:01,170 Angela Anasis: to getting better, and what they're doing around that, and 129 00:08:01,170 --> 00:08:04,140 Angela Anasis: what committees they have and can you wish to join 130 00:08:04,140 --> 00:08:07,470 Angela Anasis: and participate in that, and so they can assist with 131 00:08:07,470 --> 00:08:10,260 Angela Anasis: the challenge and get on board to actually move the 132 00:08:10,260 --> 00:08:13,470 Angela Anasis: needle in those particular areas as well, so it can be of 133 00:08:13,620 --> 00:08:14,730 Angela Anasis: great benefit. 134 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:18,480 Sean Aylmer : Angela, I hate to say it, I don't know what DE& I is. 135 00:08:18,630 --> 00:08:22,410 Angela Anasis: Oh right. Diversity, equity and inclusion. The big buzz word. 136 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:25,380 Sean Aylmer : Yep. Yep, yep, yep. Fair enough. Well, what about older 137 00:08:25,380 --> 00:08:29,910 Sean Aylmer : workers? Because increasingly, businesses will have to look to older 138 00:08:29,910 --> 00:08:33,270 Sean Aylmer : workers for two reasons, demographic, there's more oldies amongst us, 139 00:08:33,660 --> 00:08:37,380 Sean Aylmer : and also people need workers, so they will actually be 140 00:08:37,380 --> 00:08:41,040 Sean Aylmer : more open to older workers. Are they more likely to 141 00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:43,559 Sean Aylmer : place a high value on security in a job? Are 142 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:46,050 Sean Aylmer : they going to be as picky as the Gen Zs, 143 00:08:46,290 --> 00:08:48,300 Sean Aylmer : millennials, et cetera? Where do they fit into it? 144 00:08:48,750 --> 00:08:52,470 Angela Anasis: Yeah, they certainly have different needs and job security is 145 00:08:52,470 --> 00:08:55,319 Angela Anasis: certainly one of them and that rates up very, very 146 00:08:55,320 --> 00:09:00,179 Angela Anasis: highly for our baby boomers. Also, career progression and things 147 00:09:00,179 --> 00:09:03,209 Angela Anasis: like that in that mid cohort, so I wouldn't say... 148 00:09:03,450 --> 00:09:08,490 Angela Anasis: More the Xers and some millennials as well, so again, 149 00:09:08,490 --> 00:09:12,150 Angela Anasis: being able to speak to the different demographics is absolutely 150 00:09:12,150 --> 00:09:17,280 Angela Anasis: crucial. But again, flexibility. It's one that has cut across 151 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:19,920 Angela Anasis: all different types of age groups and it could mean 152 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:23,880 Angela Anasis: different things. They could take caring responsibilities or looking after 153 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:27,480 Angela Anasis: grandkids and they want some flexibility, which could be not 154 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:31,200 Angela Anasis: only just part- time but different hours to start work 155 00:09:31,710 --> 00:09:34,410 Angela Anasis: and knock off and all different other things like that 156 00:09:34,410 --> 00:09:37,319 Angela Anasis: as well, so you're absolutely spot on. We're going to be 157 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:41,820 Angela Anasis: a little bit, far more targeted and really understanding the individual 158 00:09:41,820 --> 00:09:42,240 Angela Anasis: and what their requirements are. 159 00:09:43,860 --> 00:09:47,250 Sean Aylmer : So much change in the job market now. Is it 160 00:09:47,250 --> 00:09:49,920 Sean Aylmer : the result of the pandemic? Is it an issue of 161 00:09:50,340 --> 00:09:54,900 Sean Aylmer : unemployment being at 3. 5%? Or has there been longer 162 00:09:54,900 --> 00:09:58,710 Sean Aylmer : term issues flowing through the market over the last 5, 10, 163 00:09:58,710 --> 00:10:00,870 Sean Aylmer : 15 years that's changed the job market? 164 00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:03,809 Angela Anasis: Yeah, it's all of the above really, because some of 165 00:10:03,809 --> 00:10:07,710 Angela Anasis: it is structural in particular areas which are long term, 166 00:10:07,710 --> 00:10:12,360 Angela Anasis: so we know that we have shortages in apprenticeships and 167 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:14,760 Angela Anasis: the like, and that's been going on for quite some 168 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:21,120 Angela Anasis: time in certain areas. The pandemic absolutely exacerbated things. We 169 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:26,520 Angela Anasis: saw people leave. Australia has enjoyed topping up our labor 170 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:30,900 Angela Anasis: market with travelings coming into all different types of roles 171 00:10:30,900 --> 00:10:35,609 Angela Anasis: that maybe very difficult to secure for locals as well, 172 00:10:35,610 --> 00:10:39,300 Angela Anasis: particularly in rural and regional areas as well. So that 173 00:10:39,300 --> 00:10:41,910 Angela Anasis: certainly has impacted, and of course we were one of 174 00:10:41,910 --> 00:10:47,250 Angela Anasis: the last countries to open up our borders. In that 175 00:10:47,250 --> 00:10:51,809 Angela Anasis: timeframe, we also saw many other countries, particularly in Europe 176 00:10:51,809 --> 00:10:55,020 Angela Anasis: and the US, they obviously opened up way ahead of 177 00:10:55,020 --> 00:10:59,309 Angela Anasis: us and they were able to secure talent over in 178 00:10:59,309 --> 00:11:03,210 Angela Anasis: their areas as well. So again, we've got that latent 179 00:11:03,870 --> 00:11:08,010 Angela Anasis: impact of what's happened with the pandemic as well, so 180 00:11:08,250 --> 00:11:11,820 Angela Anasis: it certainly is all of the above. It's a complex 181 00:11:11,820 --> 00:11:16,709 Angela Anasis: situation and, certainly, with a low unemployment rate that certainly 182 00:11:16,710 --> 00:11:20,160 Angela Anasis: doesn't help alleviate some of those concerns. 183 00:11:20,670 --> 00:11:22,679 Sean Aylmer : Angela, thank you for talking to Fear and Greed. 184 00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:24,179 Angela Anasis: Great. Thank you. 185 00:11:24,660 --> 00:11:28,650 Sean Aylmer : That was Angela Anasis, Executive General Manager at Randstad Australia. 186 00:11:28,890 --> 00:11:31,229 Sean Aylmer : This is the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. Join us 187 00:11:31,260 --> 00:11:33,480 Sean Aylmer : every morning for the full episode of Fear and Greed, 188 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:37,469 Sean Aylmer : Australia's most popular business podcast. I'm Sean Aylmer, enjoy your day.