1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:01,000 Speaker 1: Welcome to healthy Ish. 2 00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:03,720 Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us on the podcast of From Body 3 00:00:03,720 --> 00:00:07,400 Speaker 2: and Soul. I hope your new year is buzzing along. 4 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:09,039 Speaker 2: I'm the host of Felicity. 5 00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:09,360 Speaker 1: Harley. 6 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:11,840 Speaker 2: My guest today came all the way from the UK 7 00:00:12,039 --> 00:00:17,120 Speaker 2: and has a nifty acronym dose to help us all 8 00:00:17,200 --> 00:00:22,079 Speaker 2: distress our minds, energize our bodies and restore mental health. Yes, 9 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:24,800 Speaker 2: please to all of the above. TJ Power is a 10 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 2: neuroscientist and author with a very impressive social following, and 11 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:47,160 Speaker 2: he joins me to explain the dose effect. TJ Welcome 12 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:50,200 Speaker 2: to healthy Ish, Thanks for having me, and welcome to Australia. 13 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:51,639 Speaker 3: I'm excited to be I. 14 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:53,440 Speaker 2: Feel like we could do a whole separate podcast on 15 00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:56,120 Speaker 2: the story of why you are in Australia, but we'll. 16 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 1: Leave that for another time. 17 00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:01,520 Speaker 2: Now, Happy New Year and give us one healthy is 18 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:04,000 Speaker 2: resolution for this year, something that you want to. 19 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:08,120 Speaker 3: Achieve me personally, say I'd recommend to other Well you 20 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:13,160 Speaker 3: all right? Say the biggest impact I have on my mind. 21 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:14,640 Speaker 3: The biggest factor that has a big impact on my 22 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:17,720 Speaker 3: mind is how frequently I open social media apps. I 23 00:01:17,880 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 3: obviously speak a lot about dopamine and I've tested a 24 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 3: few times throughout this year, the idea of only being 25 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:26,520 Speaker 3: allowed on Instagram at ten o'clock in the morning, three pm, 26 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 3: and then eight pm. And it is phenomenal how much 27 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:32,280 Speaker 3: it changes my mental health when I stick to it. 28 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:33,920 Speaker 3: And I'll do it for a week or so, and 29 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:35,800 Speaker 3: then I'll lose the pattern, and then I'll start going 30 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:38,720 Speaker 3: on it more frequently. And twenty twenty five, that's the 31 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:40,679 Speaker 3: year I'm going to make that like a really stable 32 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 3: part of my life. 33 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:44,480 Speaker 2: So just three times a day. Is there some neuroscience 34 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:46,280 Speaker 2: behind the three times a day thing? 35 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:50,400 Speaker 3: Or Yeah? Effectively, Instagram or TikTok or Facebook, whatever your 36 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:53,520 Speaker 3: platform might be, is very overstimulating for the dopamine system. 37 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 3: It raises it to a very unnatural level, causing it 38 00:01:56,720 --> 00:01:59,040 Speaker 3: to crash out. When it crashes out, we feel kind 39 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:02,080 Speaker 3: of low mood and get really kind of depressed and demotivated. 40 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:04,440 Speaker 3: It's not a very nice feeling. If you reduce the 41 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:07,160 Speaker 3: frequency of activation of that dovemin system from the quick 42 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:09,160 Speaker 3: dove mein of social media, you're not going to burn 43 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:10,600 Speaker 3: out the system as much. You're going to feel a 44 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:12,960 Speaker 3: little bit more motivated and positive in your brain. And 45 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:15,200 Speaker 3: that's where I want to be in twenty twenty five. 46 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 1: Don't we all? And how do you stick to it? 47 00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:21,720 Speaker 2: You just have to be focused on your boundaries and 48 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:23,600 Speaker 2: quite militant about it. Really. 49 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:25,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's one of those things I like the idea 50 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 3: of like balance and not being too ridiculous about these things. However, 51 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:32,520 Speaker 3: with social media, for me, if I don't have a 52 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:34,720 Speaker 3: really clear structure in place, it then just gets into 53 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:36,520 Speaker 3: that loop where you're just opening it all the time. 54 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:39,160 Speaker 3: And because of how dopamin works, it drives our behavior. 55 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 3: The more you open it, the more you then open 56 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:43,840 Speaker 3: it more and more often. So for me, I use 57 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:46,160 Speaker 3: an app so that when I click Instagram, it does 58 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:48,080 Speaker 3: take about ten seconds for the app to open. It 59 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:50,720 Speaker 3: like comes up with this annoying animation that's smart, which 60 00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:53,239 Speaker 3: I find really helpful because then it gives me ten 61 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:55,840 Speaker 3: seconds to think about is it actually in my slot 62 00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:58,600 Speaker 3: where I can have my social media moment. And the 63 00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:00,680 Speaker 3: other part of it is just being really discipline. I've 64 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 3: actually found that saying to other people I'm going to 65 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:05,440 Speaker 3: do it really helps. Then they're like, you said you 66 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:07,520 Speaker 3: weren't going to go. Like if I say to my girlfriend, 67 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:09,120 Speaker 3: I'm doing ten three and eight or if I get 68 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 3: them trying to do it with me, then it can 69 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 3: help me stick to it. 70 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:14,200 Speaker 2: Well, good luck, hey, and I think you all just 71 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:16,400 Speaker 2: made us feel seen. You know, you're an expert in 72 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:18,200 Speaker 2: this area and you still struggle with it. 73 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 3: It's so hard. This dove me stuff is so hard 74 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:24,040 Speaker 3: for the modern brain. Like our brain has craved dove 75 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:26,920 Speaker 3: mean for hundreds of thousands of years. Originally it could 76 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:29,360 Speaker 3: only access it from things like hunting and building and 77 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:31,520 Speaker 3: foraging for fruit. And now it can just get it 78 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:33,919 Speaker 3: that get our finger tips at any moment, and it's 79 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:35,480 Speaker 3: very difficult for our brain to manage. 80 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:38,280 Speaker 2: Let's talk more about domain in a minute, but first 81 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 2: just set us up with what the dose effect is 82 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:41,920 Speaker 2: all about. 83 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 1: What does it stand for? 84 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:46,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, so dose is this acronym for these four primary 85 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:49,240 Speaker 3: brain chemicals. We have dopamine, which is the super famous one. 86 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 3: It creates all of our drive and motivation. 87 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:53,520 Speaker 1: So hot right now that this one isn't it? 88 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 3: It needs to be hot, Like, it's so relevant to 89 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:58,080 Speaker 3: how humans are feeling. I actually think it's the main 90 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:00,800 Speaker 3: main factor impacting the whole of society s mental health 91 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 3: is the disruption of dopamaine as a chemty. We then 92 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 3: have the O, which is oxytocin. That's the one that 93 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:09,120 Speaker 3: connects humans together. We have serotonin, which is responsible for 94 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 3: our mood and our energy levels. And then endorphins, which 95 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:14,200 Speaker 3: is a very useful chemical that can de stress our brain. 96 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 2: And what are the benefits of activating dose into our life? 97 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:20,560 Speaker 1: How can it help us? 98 00:04:21,279 --> 00:04:24,640 Speaker 3: For the majority of human history, these chemicals were extremely 99 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:26,360 Speaker 3: high and it led to our brain being in a 100 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:29,880 Speaker 3: much more positive, motivated, and connected state. And if you 101 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:33,000 Speaker 3: look at, for example, hunter gatherer tribes that are still 102 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:35,599 Speaker 3: operating today. And the reason I speak into that idea 103 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:37,680 Speaker 3: is the whole of our research at Dose Lab is 104 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:40,880 Speaker 3: focused on this thing called evolutionary mismatch, which is the 105 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:43,480 Speaker 3: idea our brain spent three hundred thousand years running around 106 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:45,960 Speaker 3: in a forest developing these chemicals. We didn't just develop 107 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:47,600 Speaker 3: them in the last twenty years when we found out 108 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:50,120 Speaker 3: about them. They've been our brain a long time. And 109 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:52,080 Speaker 3: if you go and visit these hunt to gatherer tribes 110 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:54,279 Speaker 3: and ask them or try and explain to them the 111 00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:57,680 Speaker 3: ideas of depression and demotivation and poor attention spans and 112 00:04:57,760 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 3: lack of connection, their brain ligy cannot comp this experience 113 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:03,960 Speaker 3: taking place because they're still living. How our brain is 114 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:06,560 Speaker 3: evolutionarily designed and we don't have to go back and 115 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:09,320 Speaker 3: live like hunting gatherers. But there are certain actions when 116 00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:11,080 Speaker 3: you learn about the dose effects that you can add 117 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:13,640 Speaker 3: to your life that lead to our brain feeling much happier. 118 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:16,479 Speaker 1: I mean, we're kind of stuffed. We've stuffed ourselves in 119 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 1: many ways, haven't we. 120 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:20,440 Speaker 2: If you go back to, you know, thinking about how 121 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:23,640 Speaker 2: we used to leave versus the world today and surviving 122 00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 2: and thriving. 123 00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:30,080 Speaker 1: Let's talk about dopamine. Tell us more about this chemical. 124 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:33,400 Speaker 3: Effectively evolved in our brain to make us enjoy the 125 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:36,480 Speaker 3: experience of hard work. And if you take the example 126 00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:38,520 Speaker 3: of them having to hunt for hours and hours to 127 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:40,360 Speaker 3: find food, like it would have been a hard thing 128 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:43,239 Speaker 3: to do to successfully find that food, and this chemical 129 00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:44,800 Speaker 3: motivated us to do it and then gave us a 130 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:47,920 Speaker 3: really pleasurable experience when we successfully access food, so that 131 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:49,320 Speaker 3: we think that was fun, so we would do it 132 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:51,480 Speaker 3: again and again and we would survive. As a specie 133 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:55,120 Speaker 3: in the modern world, an example of earning your dove 134 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:58,839 Speaker 3: mein effectively would be something like changing and washing your bedding, 135 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:02,159 Speaker 3: which is a very niche example. But we all wake 136 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:03,560 Speaker 3: up in the morning one day and we look at 137 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:05,360 Speaker 3: our bed and the sheets are a bit crinkled and stuff, 138 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:07,440 Speaker 3: and we think I'd probably washed my bedding today, and 139 00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:09,040 Speaker 3: then about a week later we're like, oh, yeah, actually, 140 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:11,000 Speaker 3: definitely need to wash my bedding. Now. We go through 141 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:13,400 Speaker 3: the hell of unbuttoning that douve do you guys call 142 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 3: it a duvet and don dona, So you un button 143 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:17,600 Speaker 3: your doner. You go through the hell of jamming all 144 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:19,720 Speaker 3: in the washing machine, washing it, getting it dry, putting 145 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:20,560 Speaker 3: it all back on. 146 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:22,800 Speaker 1: Eventually, and it's a nightmare to get. 147 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 3: You find yourself that evening, nine ten o'clock at night 148 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:29,159 Speaker 3: getting into your freshly washed bed, and you have that 149 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:31,920 Speaker 3: really enjoyable experience. You've never got into your freshly washed 150 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:34,240 Speaker 3: bed and thought, I really regret the fact I to 151 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:37,279 Speaker 3: wash my bedding today. It's this pleasurable experience. And doveman 152 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:39,719 Speaker 3: just evolved as a chemical to reward us for effortful 153 00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 3: actions that would help us as a human being. We 154 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:44,360 Speaker 3: do still do things that are effort in our modern world, 155 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:46,680 Speaker 3: but we've now invented a lot of ways to hijack 156 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:50,280 Speaker 3: that elevation of dove me through social media and sugar 157 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:52,719 Speaker 3: and alcohol and so on, and these are then causing 158 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 3: that chemical to break down effectively and not operate as well. 159 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:58,920 Speaker 2: You know what, you just validated that clean shape thing 160 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 2: because I have my joy list, as I call it, 161 00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:06,000 Speaker 2: crawling into clean sheets. It makes me feel amazing, like 162 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:08,680 Speaker 2: a nice experience. And it's actually a joke in our 163 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:11,280 Speaker 2: family because my sisters are the same. We all love 164 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:12,840 Speaker 2: clean sheets and we want to stay in a hotel. 165 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:15,280 Speaker 2: We just kind of it can be rustic, but as 166 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:19,720 Speaker 2: long as it has clean sheet. So talk to us 167 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:23,440 Speaker 2: about the symptoms that lower dopamine or how do we 168 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 2: feel and how does low dopmine show up in our lives. 169 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, so if we were doing the effort for actions, 170 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:31,680 Speaker 3: you'd find that you're waking up in the morning, you're 171 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:35,240 Speaker 3: super motivated and doing effortful things like making yourself a 172 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 3: nice breakfast, a healthy breakfast, going out for a walk, 173 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 3: going to work. It doesn't feel that challenging. You just 174 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:41,960 Speaker 3: kind of do it with these. If you're waking up 175 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:44,160 Speaker 3: and you're pretty low in dove, mean, everything is going 176 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:47,000 Speaker 3: to feel super hard. So the idea of even making 177 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:48,880 Speaker 3: your bed or trying to stay off your phone, or 178 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 3: cooking food or doing xcess. It all feels like, oh, 179 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:53,680 Speaker 3: you can't be bothered. It's so much effort. That's the 180 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:55,520 Speaker 3: initial stage of low dose mean is like and I 181 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:57,840 Speaker 3: can't be bothered type mind. If we get really really 182 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 3: low and dose mean, that's when we can feel quite depressed. 183 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:02,760 Speaker 3: Then we get into that state where doing anything feels horrible, 184 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:05,280 Speaker 3: even like showering or seeing people, whatever it might be. 185 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:08,520 Speaker 2: So you're saying the main causes of low dopmine in 186 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:12,239 Speaker 2: our society today are things like one, social media. 187 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:15,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, social media is definitely number one because of the 188 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 3: immense frequency of interaction with it. It's not necessarily like 189 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 3: it doesn't spike dopamine more than say alcohol, for example. 190 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:25,440 Speaker 3: But we're not all just like sipping alcohol all day 191 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:27,520 Speaker 3: every day. We might be, but that's quite rare if 192 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 3: you're sipping alcohol all day every day. Whereas social media, 193 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:31,720 Speaker 3: it's from the moment we wait, the moment we're sleep. 194 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:33,840 Speaker 3: A lot of us are opening these apps at fifty 195 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:36,880 Speaker 3: to one hundred times a day. That over activation through 196 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:39,560 Speaker 3: the social media is definitely the number one factor. And 197 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:42,200 Speaker 3: then sugar and also alcohol big factors. 198 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:45,040 Speaker 2: And you also said you've got porn in there. I mean, 199 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:47,320 Speaker 2: you've got a quite bold I saw on your Instagram 200 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:49,040 Speaker 2: where you admitted that you used to watch porn and 201 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:51,800 Speaker 2: then definitely you switched it off. 202 00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:54,960 Speaker 3: Porn was something like I grew up and I remember 203 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 3: googling like a few words when I was like a teenager. 204 00:08:57,200 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 1: And thinking, like many other men out there, yeah. 205 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:01,320 Speaker 3: I wonder what things like that look like without clothes on, 206 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:04,600 Speaker 3: And then came to discover as a teenager, oh wow, 207 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:06,600 Speaker 3: you can watch that video versions of these things that 208 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:08,960 Speaker 3: were in my imagination. And then for like ten years 209 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:10,680 Speaker 3: that was just something I interacted with. I had no 210 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:12,960 Speaker 3: idea it was necessarily bad for my brain. All my 211 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:14,960 Speaker 3: friends around me were doing it. All my friends around 212 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:16,600 Speaker 3: me still do it now. Like I don't know anyone 213 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 3: as a man that doesn't watch it. 214 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:19,599 Speaker 1: To be honest, I've got a twelve year old and 215 00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 1: that horrifies me. 216 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:23,200 Speaker 3: Yeah. I sorry to say, he may have seen the 217 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:26,640 Speaker 3: which is sad, or he may in time. I think 218 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:29,400 Speaker 3: in the UK at the moment, the average age that 219 00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 3: a boy has seen its nine years. 220 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:31,120 Speaker 2: Yeah. 221 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:32,960 Speaker 1: It's in Australia, which is wild. 222 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:36,160 Speaker 3: So it is something that you kind of when you're 223 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 3: growing up as a boy, you don't think, oh, it's 224 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:39,520 Speaker 3: that bad for you. But when I came to really 225 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:42,120 Speaker 3: study neuroscience and when deep ins this research, I realized 226 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:45,320 Speaker 3: that this is really overactivating the system. And you experience it, 227 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:48,120 Speaker 3: particularly as a man like you watch it, it's very pleasurable. 228 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:51,920 Speaker 3: During afterwards, you very rapidly feel pretty deflated and almost 229 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:53,840 Speaker 3: like a bit of like a shameful guilt feeling just 230 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:56,760 Speaker 3: like comes over you. And it is something that over 231 00:09:56,800 --> 00:09:58,400 Speaker 3: the last few years I really tried to cut out 232 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:00,280 Speaker 3: of my life and it has been phenomen or how 233 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 3: big of an impact I actually had. 234 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:03,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, and good on you for speaking out about that. 235 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:05,800 Speaker 3: Thanks. I think it's one of those things that's having 236 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 3: such a huge impact that it has to be talked about. 237 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:10,120 Speaker 3: Like I didn't grow up thinking, oh, I really want 238 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:11,800 Speaker 3: to be that guy that goes and talks about poor 239 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:14,200 Speaker 3: and that wasn't really in the game plan, but it 240 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:15,160 Speaker 3: feels like it just has to be. 241 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:16,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, good on you. 242 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:19,160 Speaker 2: So talk us through some actions, as you call them, 243 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:23,360 Speaker 2: things that we can implement in our lives regularly that 244 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:25,840 Speaker 2: will help. Now when it comes to open what do 245 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:27,520 Speaker 2: we want to do? What's the approach. Do we want 246 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:31,120 Speaker 2: to regulate it? Do we want to rise it and fall? 247 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:31,320 Speaker 3: Like? 248 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:34,640 Speaker 1: How do we what's the ideal that we're aiming for. 249 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:37,040 Speaker 3: You want to have in your mind the idea of 250 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:40,440 Speaker 3: earning it. Basically, you want to earn pleasure. That example 251 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:42,480 Speaker 3: of changing and washing your bed, and you're earning pleasure. 252 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:44,599 Speaker 3: None of it is enjoyable until the moment. 253 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:46,920 Speaker 1: You get I might do that every day now, Yeah, just. 254 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:49,920 Speaker 3: Rapidly changing and watching your bed, even if you take 255 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:53,240 Speaker 3: something like an easier example waking up and then making 256 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:55,520 Speaker 3: your bed really nicely and make sure it is all nice. 257 00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:57,439 Speaker 3: And if you don't have lots of nice pillows and stuff, 258 00:10:57,440 --> 00:10:59,440 Speaker 3: like making your bed a nicer thing to make so 259 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:00,400 Speaker 3: you have a bit of effort. 260 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:01,680 Speaker 1: I love that example. 261 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:05,079 Speaker 3: That is a good example. The big thing, first of all, though, 262 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:07,920 Speaker 3: for doping is this idea of phone fasting. Fasting from 263 00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:10,920 Speaker 3: food is obviously like a massive phenomena now, and our phone, 264 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:13,160 Speaker 3: we really need to develop the relationship with it whereby 265 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:15,720 Speaker 3: we find it okay to be separate from it. I 266 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:18,640 Speaker 3: think if society could become comfortable with separating from our phone, 267 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:20,960 Speaker 3: it's like it would be a massive beneficial thing for 268 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:23,800 Speaker 3: mental health. And when we wake up first thing in 269 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:26,199 Speaker 3: the morning, avoiding the phone is like the number one 270 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:27,959 Speaker 3: thing if I could change one thing about the world, 271 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:29,520 Speaker 3: if I could put like a law in place that 272 00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:31,920 Speaker 3: everyone had to follow to try and improve mental health, 273 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:34,840 Speaker 3: it would be wake up in the morning, not snooze 274 00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:36,600 Speaker 3: your alarm, as tempting as it is, but that really 275 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:39,080 Speaker 3: depletes the dopamine. And then you get out of bed, 276 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:41,000 Speaker 3: You go and brush your teeth, you flash cold water 277 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:42,920 Speaker 3: on your face, you make your bed, and maybe you 278 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:45,320 Speaker 3: step outside for a few minutes, not even for very long, 279 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:47,720 Speaker 3: just so your brain's seen some sunlight, and then go 280 00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 3: into the phone. That's so different for your dopamine pathway. 281 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:53,400 Speaker 2: What is there any timeframe that you should be off 282 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:54,880 Speaker 2: your phone of a morning. 283 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:57,319 Speaker 3: I would say a minimum goal will be fifteen minutes. 284 00:11:57,360 --> 00:11:59,680 Speaker 3: That would be incredible. If you could wake up that's not. 285 00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:02,240 Speaker 1: Very minutes before I was thinking going to stay an hour. 286 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:05,560 Speaker 3: That would be a good thing to work towards over time, 287 00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:07,680 Speaker 3: Like if it was within your eMate to be able 288 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:09,880 Speaker 3: to wake up, do a little bit of that morning stuff, 289 00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:11,280 Speaker 3: brushing your teeth and so on, and then go for 290 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:13,280 Speaker 3: a walk and have the whole walk before you come 291 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:15,720 Speaker 3: back on your phone. That would be incredible for your brain. 292 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:18,439 Speaker 3: The beneficial effects of also having the nature and the 293 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:20,920 Speaker 3: movement and the sunlight would be phenomenal. But if you 294 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:23,200 Speaker 3: started with fifteen minutes and then kind of built from there, 295 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:23,839 Speaker 3: that would be the goal. 296 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:25,640 Speaker 2: What do you do in the mornings? How does a 297 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:28,080 Speaker 2: neuroscientist approach the mornings? 298 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:30,800 Speaker 3: I do take my mornings like pretty seriously. To be honest, 299 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:34,120 Speaker 3: I think how your morning begins has a humongous impact 300 00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 3: on how the rest of the day is going to go. 301 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:38,199 Speaker 3: And it's really clear in the neuroscience that wherever that 302 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:41,080 Speaker 3: first source of dope mean is from, it really our 303 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:43,240 Speaker 3: brain really craves in that direction for the rest of 304 00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:45,920 Speaker 3: the day. So if effort is what it gets doping from, 305 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:48,559 Speaker 3: it's going to pursue effort. If easy, quick pleasure is 306 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:50,880 Speaker 3: what it gets its doping from, you're heading in that direction. 307 00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:53,920 Speaker 3: So this morning, for example, like I had this today, 308 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:56,920 Speaker 3: I wanted to feel good today. I woke up, I 309 00:12:57,080 --> 00:12:58,679 Speaker 3: really want to snooze alarms when I wake up, so 310 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:00,800 Speaker 3: I kind of forced myself when along goes off to 311 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:02,480 Speaker 3: just sit on the side of the bed. My girlfriend 312 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:04,040 Speaker 3: finds it kind of weird. I kind of sit there 313 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:05,720 Speaker 3: with my head in my hand, just so I don't 314 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:07,719 Speaker 3: go back to sleep. I go to the bathroom and 315 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:10,400 Speaker 3: brush my teeth, cold water on my face, and then 316 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:12,599 Speaker 3: go downstairs. I step outside for like two minutes, and 317 00:13:12,679 --> 00:13:14,679 Speaker 3: then when we have enough time, Like we had enough 318 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:16,320 Speaker 3: time this morning, so we woke up a bit earlier. 319 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:18,400 Speaker 3: We went out for a walk for maybe like an 320 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:20,160 Speaker 3: hour or something. We did actually quite a good walk. 321 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:22,040 Speaker 3: We actually saw a brown stake as well. 322 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:25,360 Speaker 1: An englishman. 323 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:26,520 Speaker 3: It was very small. 324 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:29,680 Speaker 1: I was imagining this massive show. 325 00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:32,599 Speaker 3: She told me even brownsnakes that small can kill you. 326 00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:34,840 Speaker 3: So I was there stressing good. But I thought, well, 327 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:36,679 Speaker 3: this is coming out hunter gathering, so this is actually 328 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:40,320 Speaker 3: good to have this experience. We went for a walk, 329 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:43,200 Speaker 3: came home with then did a little bit of breath work. 330 00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:45,240 Speaker 3: I think breath work is really cool. It's very good. 331 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:47,720 Speaker 3: I'm someone that struggles with a lot of like overthinking. 332 00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:50,440 Speaker 3: My brain is very rapid and worries about various things, 333 00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:52,920 Speaker 3: and I find that deep breathing stuff you can do 334 00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:55,640 Speaker 3: is really effective for calming the brain. Then I got ready, 335 00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:57,000 Speaker 3: went on my computer for the first time. 336 00:13:57,480 --> 00:13:59,600 Speaker 1: Do you do any specific breathing techniques. 337 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:03,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think there's We have this particular YouTube channel 338 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:06,360 Speaker 3: we love following called Breathe as Sandy. That's a nice 339 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 3: shower to Sandy. But it's so good and it's so 340 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 3: easy to follow, and obviously it's all free, and we 341 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:13,880 Speaker 3: go on there and it's just basically deep inhalations through 342 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:17,200 Speaker 3: your nose, big exhalations. You do that for about sixty seconds, 343 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:19,880 Speaker 3: and then we hold our breath for ninety seconds and 344 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:23,000 Speaker 3: we just kind of cycle around that. And as I say, 345 00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:25,280 Speaker 3: like my mind is just like quite stressed out, like 346 00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:27,680 Speaker 3: I just slightly orient towards of mine that's quite like 347 00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:31,120 Speaker 3: rigid like that, and it gives me this huge release. 348 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:33,480 Speaker 3: And for me are someone that was super hooked on 349 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:34,960 Speaker 3: a lot of the quick dove mein that's kind of 350 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:37,840 Speaker 3: what led me into this world. And the big deep 351 00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:40,040 Speaker 3: breathwork stuff is the thing that I found closest to 352 00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:41,800 Speaker 3: the high that the quick dopemin used to give. 353 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:43,520 Speaker 1: Mm Oh, I love breathwork. 354 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:45,920 Speaker 2: Talk to us a bit about flow state because I 355 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:49,600 Speaker 2: know you study this, you need to write fasis on it. Yeah. 356 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:53,400 Speaker 3: One of my thesis on this on the interaction between mindfulness. 357 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:54,320 Speaker 1: And flows regulate dopamine. 358 00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:57,240 Speaker 3: Flow state is like really at the core of exactly 359 00:14:57,320 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 3: what dove mean is all about. For our four hunter 360 00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:02,880 Speaker 3: gather ourselves, they spent a huge amount of time in 361 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:05,120 Speaker 3: deep states of focus. Like if you were hunting, you 362 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:07,120 Speaker 3: were in the zone for hours. If you were foraging 363 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 3: for fruit, if you were building shelter, if you were 364 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:12,200 Speaker 3: making a fire. It was always activities that had us deeply, 365 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:15,040 Speaker 3: deeply focused. And now it's a lot like kind of 366 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:17,800 Speaker 3: sitting at our desk working, what's happening, emailing, It's like 367 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:19,520 Speaker 3: so many eating at the same time. It's like so 368 00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:22,520 Speaker 3: many activities at once. And it's really clear that when 369 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:25,200 Speaker 3: our brain enters these prolonged deep states of focus, it 370 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:28,360 Speaker 3: builds an absolute ton of dopamine, and evolutionarily that makes 371 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:30,320 Speaker 3: sense because the more it builds, the more motivated and 372 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:34,240 Speaker 3: focus you'd become. And in our modern world, what's actually 373 00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:36,120 Speaker 3: happening is a lot of us have things that might 374 00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:37,840 Speaker 3: be able to get us into flow state. This could 375 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:40,160 Speaker 3: be cooking, it could be making music, it could be 376 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:42,720 Speaker 3: in your work life, it could be something artistic or creative. 377 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:45,640 Speaker 3: And what we've basically found in our research is rather 378 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:48,120 Speaker 3: than people actually engaging with their flow state a lot 379 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:50,480 Speaker 3: of the time. Now we're actually watching people on social 380 00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:53,920 Speaker 3: media engage with our flow state instead. And if you 381 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:56,200 Speaker 3: look at your social media feed, you'll notice there's like 382 00:15:56,760 --> 00:15:58,880 Speaker 3: a pattern or a theme of videos that come up 383 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:01,000 Speaker 3: quite regularly. It might be cooking. Cooking is often one 384 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:01,680 Speaker 3: that people like to. 385 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:03,160 Speaker 1: Watch one skiing snow skiing. 386 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:06,800 Speaker 3: At the moment, yes, like those people are dancing dancing, 387 00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:11,119 Speaker 3: and they're beautiful flow states, and we're kind of vicarious 388 00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:13,920 Speaker 3: the experiencing flow state, but not getting the dove mean benefits. 389 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:16,880 Speaker 3: We're not actually physically interacting with the activity. And if 390 00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:18,560 Speaker 3: you want to access flow state, if you look at 391 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:20,120 Speaker 3: your social media feed and have a thing that what 392 00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:22,520 Speaker 3: is really coming up quite often, and then ask yourself 393 00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:24,680 Speaker 3: the question am I actually engaging in this activity? Like 394 00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:28,560 Speaker 3: people love watching cleaning videos for example, cleaning is unreal 395 00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:30,400 Speaker 3: for our dopemin and rather than just like getting a 396 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:32,960 Speaker 3: bit of satisfaction as to watching someone else clean, if 397 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:34,960 Speaker 3: you can clean, then you're actually building it naturally. 398 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:39,240 Speaker 1: Will be back after the shot break with more from TJ. Power. 399 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:42,480 Speaker 2: One thing I do love about your book, and you've 400 00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:45,920 Speaker 2: explained on this podcast, is just you know, comparing ourselves 401 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:48,440 Speaker 2: back to when we were cave people. And I think 402 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:51,400 Speaker 2: that's so important to you know, to get your head 403 00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:54,480 Speaker 2: around when you talk about this, because that was like 404 00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:55,840 Speaker 2: thousands and thousands of years. 405 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:57,960 Speaker 1: We evolve like that now modern day society. 406 00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:00,320 Speaker 2: I don't know the actual like what if if we 407 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:02,520 Speaker 2: looked at modern day it would be what six minutes 408 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:04,760 Speaker 2: of one hour or something compared to how we evolve, 409 00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:05,359 Speaker 2: you know, how there is that. 410 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:06,440 Speaker 1: I don't know what that is. 411 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:10,000 Speaker 3: Honestly, we spent ninety nine point nine percent of human 412 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:14,760 Speaker 3: history outside that's yeah, basically all it's so new and 413 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:17,360 Speaker 3: we obviously and I hed think, oh no, because we've 414 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:19,720 Speaker 3: been evolving over the last few thousand years quite a lot. 415 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:22,560 Speaker 3: And we had the advent of farming twelve thousand years ago, 416 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:25,200 Speaker 3: so that really began to change things for humans because suddenly, 417 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:27,880 Speaker 3: like the pursuit of food wasn't the primary goal for everyone. 418 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:30,680 Speaker 3: It's only meant people could do other things. Then over 419 00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:32,760 Speaker 3: the last few thousand years, things started to speed up, 420 00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:35,960 Speaker 3: but still in all of those lifestyles before the advent 421 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:39,400 Speaker 3: of basically technology, life was still a much more physical experience. 422 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:42,120 Speaker 3: Humans were much more connected, We spent way more time outside, 423 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:45,200 Speaker 3: our nutrition was way more clean. And it's really in 424 00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:47,960 Speaker 3: the last thirty years that we have radically changed things. 425 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:52,160 Speaker 3: We've moved to sedentary, digital lifestyles that are spent indoors. 426 00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:53,040 Speaker 1: And non community. 427 00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:55,080 Speaker 2: I think the other important thing, you know, and you 428 00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:57,560 Speaker 2: talk about this in your book, is coming to like 429 00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:00,600 Speaker 2: humans evolved and we exist because we were in tribes 430 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:03,760 Speaker 2: and we supported each other, whereas now we're so solo 431 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:06,560 Speaker 2: in that it's everything about the self rather than about 432 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:07,640 Speaker 2: the community. 433 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:09,720 Speaker 3: One hundred percent. Like for most of human history, we 434 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:12,920 Speaker 3: were oxytocin driven, and that basically means we were driven 435 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:14,760 Speaker 3: by how every day can I be making sure that 436 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:16,960 Speaker 3: group survived so that you could survive as well. But 437 00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:19,760 Speaker 3: it was all about the team. And as we've evolved 438 00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:21,359 Speaker 3: in the last eight, ten to twenty years, things have 439 00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:24,280 Speaker 3: become very dope being driven. Like our life is very 440 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:26,840 Speaker 3: in the pursuit of either success and progress and money 441 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:28,800 Speaker 3: that's a big priority for many of us, or is 442 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:31,040 Speaker 3: the pursuit of high levels of pleasure from alcohol and 443 00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:34,040 Speaker 3: stimulation and stuff like that. And we really do need 444 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:37,040 Speaker 3: to consider how much community experiences are we having, how 445 00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:38,800 Speaker 3: bonded are we to the people around. 446 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:43,240 Speaker 2: Us talk to us a bit about the eendorphins, why 447 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:47,280 Speaker 2: are these important for survival and perhaps some key principles 448 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:48,440 Speaker 2: as you write about. 449 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:51,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's super interesting, and dolphins really helped us with 450 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:55,120 Speaker 3: like extreme stress in our mind. If we were out 451 00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:56,639 Speaker 3: there in the wild and you suddenly had like a 452 00:18:56,720 --> 00:19:00,680 Speaker 3: rustling in the bushes, or you still and it was 453 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:02,440 Speaker 3: so small it wasn't wrestling, but I saw it. 454 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:03,840 Speaker 1: Did you get a photo of it? 455 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:10,120 Speaker 3: No phones with us phones. I actually yesterday went out 456 00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:12,560 Speaker 3: for a walk in the afternoon and I didn't take 457 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:14,160 Speaker 3: my phone with me. And I've literally just got tipped 458 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:16,080 Speaker 3: to Australia a couple of days ago, and I ended 459 00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:17,679 Speaker 3: up getting so lost in the bush that I had 460 00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:19,600 Speaker 3: to go to a round them person's house and knock 461 00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:21,399 Speaker 3: on their door and then ask them to direct me 462 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:22,080 Speaker 3: home because I didn't know. 463 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:23,840 Speaker 1: We've gone in full bush men mode. 464 00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:26,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, I actually do live this dose lifestyle away from 465 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:29,439 Speaker 3: the phones. Anyway, back to indorphins, back to in dolphins. 466 00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:31,800 Speaker 3: So in that moment of physical danger, we needed a 467 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:34,280 Speaker 3: chemical that could rapidly take stress out of our mind, 468 00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:35,679 Speaker 3: so you didn't like run away think oh my god, 469 00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:37,119 Speaker 3: I'm gonna die. You just got in the zone and 470 00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:40,160 Speaker 3: survived it. And as soon as our body experienced physical 471 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:44,440 Speaker 3: activation like running and sprinting and physically fighting, indorphins would 472 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:46,520 Speaker 3: flood our brain to take that stress and fear out 473 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:48,880 Speaker 3: of our mind. And whilst we're obviously not running away 474 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:52,360 Speaker 3: from bears anymore kind of this morning, it's really useful 475 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:54,840 Speaker 3: if we can activate this chemical more often, because obviously 476 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:57,000 Speaker 3: there's still many other stresses in our modern world. 477 00:19:57,560 --> 00:19:59,920 Speaker 2: So how do we activate it? I mean, obviously exces 478 00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:02,800 Speaker 2: is a big one. I mean, you know talk twenty 479 00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:06,400 Speaker 2: runner and we know the runners high. What about because 480 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:09,560 Speaker 2: you write a bit about strength versus endurance versus motivation 481 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:13,920 Speaker 2: when it comes to activating dolphins, can you talk a 482 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:15,520 Speaker 2: bit about the importance of each of these. 483 00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:18,920 Speaker 3: A variety is really important, Like humans evolved for both 484 00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:22,359 Speaker 3: endurance activities and obviously lifting heavy things and moving things about. 485 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:25,480 Speaker 3: And it's really important to understand that endorphins activate most 486 00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:28,119 Speaker 3: when you're putting your body under the most physical pressure 487 00:20:28,119 --> 00:20:30,120 Speaker 3: it can experience. Like the faster I had to run 488 00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:32,800 Speaker 3: away from that bear, effectively, the more endorphins I would need. 489 00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:36,160 Speaker 3: So if you're doing an endurance activity, say you were swimming. 490 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:37,960 Speaker 3: We're at the harbor ESA, and I was told there 491 00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:39,840 Speaker 3: are sharks in there, so don't swim in that harbor. 492 00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:42,320 Speaker 3: But if you were swimming, it's in the moment that 493 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:44,080 Speaker 3: you decide I'm going to swim as fast as I can. 494 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:46,639 Speaker 3: That you're getting the biggest release With the more strength 495 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:47,960 Speaker 3: side of things, it'd be if you were in the 496 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:50,160 Speaker 3: gym and you were squatting. It'd be in the last 497 00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:52,480 Speaker 3: two or three reps where you go past your failure 498 00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:55,080 Speaker 3: point that you're getting a big activation. And it's really 499 00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:58,879 Speaker 3: important to utilize that as a motivator when you're exercising effectively. 500 00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:01,280 Speaker 3: So when you're the end of your swim, for example, 501 00:21:01,359 --> 00:21:03,159 Speaker 3: or the end of a set, in that moment, if 502 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:05,040 Speaker 3: you can say to yourself, like, this final bit of 503 00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:08,119 Speaker 3: really pushing is going to activate my endorphins, and knowing 504 00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:10,200 Speaker 3: in your mind that that's going to be the absolutely 505 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:13,080 Speaker 3: best scientific way to destress your brain is really useful. 506 00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:15,280 Speaker 3: Because I'll have days at work where I think, Wow, 507 00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:17,560 Speaker 3: I'm like super stressed by a variety of different tasks 508 00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:20,040 Speaker 3: or whatever it might be. Going to the gym won't 509 00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:21,879 Speaker 3: be on my priority list. I think, oh God, I 510 00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:23,920 Speaker 3: gotta go to the gym, but I'll know that if 511 00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:26,000 Speaker 3: I go there and if I push myself in the evening, 512 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:28,520 Speaker 3: I'm going to feel super calm. And for many of us, 513 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:30,960 Speaker 3: we think destressing is kind of just sitting on the 514 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:33,040 Speaker 3: sofa and like having a glass of wine and watching TV. 515 00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:36,320 Speaker 3: That's really just like a dopamine experience that's turning our 516 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:39,800 Speaker 3: brain off temporarily, but actually destressing our brain is physically 517 00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:40,840 Speaker 3: activating the body. 518 00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:43,960 Speaker 2: Now, this is a little personal question from me. I 519 00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:46,600 Speaker 2: don't get the same dopamine hit Like I just ran 520 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:48,600 Speaker 2: a half marathon this year. Cool, Well, I have to 521 00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:50,879 Speaker 2: run further to get the same meat hit. 522 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:51,160 Speaker 3: Now. 523 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:52,959 Speaker 1: Is that what's going on up here? 524 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:56,240 Speaker 3: Yeah? Effectively, you're building tolerance. 525 00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:57,399 Speaker 1: To what creates what it's annoying for you. 526 00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:01,000 Speaker 3: It is annoying for sure. Sometimes novelty is actually the 527 00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:03,520 Speaker 3: best way to then get a new dopamine hit, Like 528 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:06,520 Speaker 3: it might be that something different could give you a 529 00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:08,960 Speaker 3: great doping hit, Like if you did a triathlon and 530 00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:11,359 Speaker 3: you include a cycling and swimming into the mix because 531 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:13,920 Speaker 3: of the novelty, you'd get a greater activation of dopamine. 532 00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:16,399 Speaker 3: In a situation like that, it would have to be 533 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:16,879 Speaker 3: something more. 534 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:18,280 Speaker 1: I have to go for the marathon. 535 00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:20,000 Speaker 3: You may have to go for the marith that is 536 00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:23,160 Speaker 3: a long way, or maybe like a goal around pace 537 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:25,520 Speaker 3: would be like another thing that would provide a dopamine 538 00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:25,960 Speaker 3: here as well. 539 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:29,640 Speaker 1: What about told us about how hate can increase in dolphins. 540 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:32,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, so the rule of endorphins is physical activation of 541 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:35,879 Speaker 3: the body, and hot environments, particularly something like a sauna, 542 00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:38,119 Speaker 3: is actually pretty challenging for the body. Like if you're 543 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:40,040 Speaker 3: in there, the beginning is normally like, oh, it's not 544 00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:41,480 Speaker 3: too bad in here, and then once you used to 545 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:43,440 Speaker 3: past ten minutes, it's like, well this is getting quite 546 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:45,800 Speaker 3: difficult and you very much want to leave. At that point. 547 00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:49,040 Speaker 3: In that moment, your body is experiencing physical danger, like 548 00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:51,399 Speaker 3: it doesn't know your body that it's just a sauna 549 00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:52,919 Speaker 3: and you're going to get out soon. It might think, well, 550 00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:54,960 Speaker 3: this is my new environment where I live, and this 551 00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:57,080 Speaker 3: is going to be hard to deal with, So dolphins 552 00:22:57,080 --> 00:22:59,920 Speaker 3: will begin to release. We have a very similar experience happening. 553 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,600 Speaker 3: Even when we take a warm bath, our body experiences 554 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:05,000 Speaker 3: this thing called the heat stress response, where again it 555 00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:06,840 Speaker 3: doesn't know that that hot bath isn't going to get 556 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:09,280 Speaker 3: hotter and hotter, so it prepares for danger and releases. 557 00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:11,119 Speaker 1: I mean, what is it? Pretty basic? Really when you 558 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:11,880 Speaker 1: think about. 559 00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:15,600 Speaker 2: We probably over complicate things, but if we just come 560 00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:19,920 Speaker 2: back to again evolutionary history, they're pretty basic things. 561 00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:22,760 Speaker 3: They are basic things, and I really believe a lot 562 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:25,359 Speaker 3: of the solution to the mental health difficulty we're facing 563 00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:28,479 Speaker 3: in the modern world is actually quite basic. And it's 564 00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:31,399 Speaker 3: really interesting mental health. If you were experiencing a lot 565 00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:33,440 Speaker 3: of difficulty in your mind and you ask yourself the question, 566 00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:36,080 Speaker 3: have I experienced like a big life event recently that's 567 00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:38,640 Speaker 3: causing this pain, Like if you'd been through someone passing away, 568 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:40,960 Speaker 3: or a divorce or a breakup or something like that, 569 00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:43,440 Speaker 3: that would be a very natural cause of like a 570 00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:46,280 Speaker 3: mental health difficulty. If you're not going through a big 571 00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:48,920 Speaker 3: life event, but you're experiencing a lot of low mood 572 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:51,760 Speaker 3: and depression and anxiety, it's very likely that your lifestyle 573 00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:54,080 Speaker 3: is actually causing that experience to happen and the brain 574 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:56,159 Speaker 3: is just out of balance. And if we add in 575 00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:58,480 Speaker 3: the behaviors that our brain always utilize to balance it, 576 00:23:58,600 --> 00:23:59,640 Speaker 3: we can feel a lot better. 577 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:03,120 Speaker 2: Just before we leave endorphins tops a bit about music 578 00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:06,760 Speaker 2: and laughter, because these are two actions, as you call them, 579 00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:10,040 Speaker 2: that I think we are just undervalued. We do. 580 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:13,679 Speaker 3: If I start with the laughter one. Laughter is super interesting. 581 00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:15,600 Speaker 3: In all of our data at dose Lab, we ask 582 00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:18,560 Speaker 3: people the question how much do you like laughing? From like, 583 00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:21,960 Speaker 3: over twenty thousand responses, we have a nine point eight average, 584 00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:24,760 Speaker 3: so as you would expect people like laughing. We then 585 00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:26,920 Speaker 3: ask them how often do you feel you laugh? And 586 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:29,240 Speaker 3: we have a five point one average to that question. 587 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:31,479 Speaker 3: So people love laughing, but they're actually not laughing as 588 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:34,199 Speaker 3: often anymore because of technology, because so much of our 589 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:36,680 Speaker 3: social chill time is now behind the screen and not 590 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:39,480 Speaker 3: with other humans. And just with this idea of physical 591 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:42,000 Speaker 3: activation of the body, when you really really laugh, like 592 00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:44,280 Speaker 3: you actually feel pain within your stomach and that is 593 00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:47,359 Speaker 3: a huge endorphin releaser. And you'll notice that laughing is 594 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:49,960 Speaker 3: like the opposite feeling of being stressed. It's this really free, 595 00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:53,280 Speaker 3: calm feeling. And asking yourself the question am I putting 596 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:56,360 Speaker 3: myself in enough laughter environments? Am I going to environments 597 00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:58,760 Speaker 3: where I laugh regularly? Is a really key question. 598 00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:02,400 Speaker 2: You know, we did an episode on laughter yoga Christy 599 00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:05,359 Speaker 2: and it was one of the most listened to episodes, 600 00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:08,440 Speaker 2: which is in my mind intinctively. 601 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:10,720 Speaker 3: People might feel drawn towards the idea maybe I'm actually 602 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:11,840 Speaker 3: like too serious now. 603 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:14,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I need to and it's something a bit different, 604 00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:15,360 Speaker 2: and maybe I need to do it. And I think 605 00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:17,320 Speaker 2: that maybe the marrying of the yoga with the I mean, 606 00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:18,000 Speaker 2: I've never done it. 607 00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:20,840 Speaker 3: Well, yoga like this whole stretching world is also physical 608 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:23,320 Speaker 3: activation of the bodies. You're getting like this double activation 609 00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:24,080 Speaker 3: of endorphins. 610 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:28,400 Speaker 1: Actually I missed that one because the stretching is really important, 611 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:28,720 Speaker 1: isn't it. 612 00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:31,840 Speaker 3: Stretching is incredible. It's such a good activator of the 613 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:34,120 Speaker 3: chemical If you do yoga, for example, you reach those 614 00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:36,000 Speaker 3: points we think, I hate this position, You're in a 615 00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:38,520 Speaker 3: bit of physical difficulty, and it's in those moments again 616 00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:42,800 Speaker 3: that endorphins are activating like crazy. I also think stretching 617 00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:45,760 Speaker 3: is such a huge thing for longevity, and it's very 618 00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:48,359 Speaker 3: clear that science and medicine is evolving a lot. And 619 00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:50,880 Speaker 3: I really think over the next two to three decades, 620 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:53,560 Speaker 3: our capacity to live for longer periods of time is 621 00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:56,080 Speaker 3: definitely going to advance as a specie. And if we 622 00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:58,480 Speaker 3: get lucky enough to do eighteen ninety one hundred, whatever 623 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:00,880 Speaker 3: it might be. Being some one that has a physically 624 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:03,439 Speaker 3: able body is massive for your quality of life. It's 625 00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:05,880 Speaker 3: probably number one for your quality of life. And if 626 00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:08,359 Speaker 3: you can have like a short regular stretching practice in 627 00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:11,359 Speaker 3: your life now, your last couple decades are going to 628 00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:12,240 Speaker 3: be radically different. 629 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:15,360 Speaker 2: What are some of the key actions that you implement 630 00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:18,359 Speaker 2: in your life around the dose idea? 631 00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:20,920 Speaker 3: Around the dose I did it? I would say for me, 632 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:23,520 Speaker 3: the things I take most seriously is the phone fasting 633 00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:26,480 Speaker 3: one hundred percent, like it's regular physical separation from the 634 00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:28,480 Speaker 3: devices they can where it's literally not near me so 635 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:32,920 Speaker 3: I can't check it. I would say on oxytocin, like 636 00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:35,960 Speaker 3: real presence with human beings, so like trying to make 637 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:37,720 Speaker 3: sure I really connect and bond with people when you 638 00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:40,360 Speaker 3: listen carefully, when you make eye contact, when you physically 639 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:43,120 Speaker 3: connect with them, it builds it. I would also say 640 00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:46,280 Speaker 3: gratitude is massive in my brain. I think gratitude is 641 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:49,800 Speaker 3: very calming for our thoughts. Our brains can really orient 642 00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:52,000 Speaker 3: towards like what isn't going to plan in our life 643 00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:54,840 Speaker 3: and get super stressed out, And when you really deeply 644 00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:57,080 Speaker 3: think through what you're grateful you're like, oh, actually, there's 645 00:26:57,280 --> 00:26:58,560 Speaker 3: quite a lot here that is going on. 646 00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:00,639 Speaker 2: What practices do you have around that do you just 647 00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:04,720 Speaker 2: mentally go, I'm really I'm really grateful for this. 648 00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:08,480 Speaker 1: I mean, I think when you feel gratitude, that feeling, 649 00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:09,560 Speaker 1: and that. 650 00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:11,879 Speaker 3: Feeling is like love in your body. It's very calming 651 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:14,479 Speaker 3: for our body because it's like so reassuring, like our 652 00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:16,600 Speaker 3: brain and body can hear these different thoughts and it's like, wow, 653 00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:19,080 Speaker 3: I've got all this stuff. This is amazing. And in 654 00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:21,240 Speaker 3: terms of the practice, when I'm back home, I have 655 00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:23,040 Speaker 3: this like walk that I do each morning. It's just 656 00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:25,800 Speaker 3: like a religious practice I have every day, and there's 657 00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:27,600 Speaker 3: a particular bench I like to sit on and I've 658 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:29,920 Speaker 3: kind of pared it to the idea of gratitude, so 659 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:31,480 Speaker 3: it like in my head, I see the bench and 660 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:33,679 Speaker 3: I know the gratitude is coming. And then I'll think 661 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:35,520 Speaker 3: through a few things I think through like some people, 662 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:39,000 Speaker 3: my girlfriend, my mom, my house, nature, whatever it might be. 663 00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:41,720 Speaker 3: But the most important factor, and my girlfriend actually taught 664 00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:43,760 Speaker 3: me to do this, is that when I ask myself 665 00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:45,880 Speaker 3: the question of what I'm grateful for, I then ask why, 666 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:47,840 Speaker 3: and then I actually think through like why is it 667 00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:50,000 Speaker 3: actually useful that I have that thing? Why is it valuable? 668 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:52,320 Speaker 3: And how does it make me feel? And going through 669 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:56,000 Speaker 3: that protocol regularly is super important. And social media is 670 00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:58,879 Speaker 3: creating this experience in the modern brain whereby we are 671 00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:01,480 Speaker 3: constantly thinking about what we don't have. We see people 672 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:04,400 Speaker 3: with better lives, more money, better holidays, better looking, better 673 00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:07,200 Speaker 3: shopping stuff, whatever it might be. And gratitude is this 674 00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:09,399 Speaker 3: constant reminder of, oh, I actually do have quite a lot. 675 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:12,520 Speaker 3: It's very key, especially if you have teenage kids or 676 00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:15,600 Speaker 3: young kids. Teaching them to think in that way is crucial. 677 00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:18,760 Speaker 2: Doesn't worry you where social media is going to put 678 00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:20,920 Speaker 2: us as a society and culture. 679 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:24,840 Speaker 3: It's interesting social media because I obviously also see it 680 00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:26,399 Speaker 3: from the lens of like I get to tell the 681 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:28,920 Speaker 3: world about dose because of my social media account. So 682 00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:31,240 Speaker 3: I'm in this ironic position of saying, like, don't use 683 00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:32,359 Speaker 3: social media, do much. 684 00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:35,200 Speaker 2: My lips, right, We can dream of ski trips that 685 00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:37,119 Speaker 2: we might want to go on, or see places, or 686 00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:39,440 Speaker 2: you know, be exposed to things that we probably never 687 00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:40,800 Speaker 2: would have been without it. 688 00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:43,800 Speaker 3: For sure, So I think there's a learning element that 689 00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:47,320 Speaker 3: is cool. I really think the short video component of 690 00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:49,640 Speaker 3: social media is the most difficult part. I don't think 691 00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:52,680 Speaker 3: society was that addicted to social media before COVID. I 692 00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:55,480 Speaker 3: think COVID is where everything changed for everyone on their phones. 693 00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:58,680 Speaker 3: Covid is when TikTok was invented. Over the next two years, 694 00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:02,200 Speaker 3: everyone copied TikTok's form, and it's inside those short video 695 00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:04,800 Speaker 3: scrolling experiences that we get the most rapid dove mean 696 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:07,640 Speaker 3: increase and it traps our brain inside there. And I 697 00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:11,560 Speaker 3: think social media is something that definitely is advantageous to 698 00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:14,720 Speaker 3: society from a learning perspective, but society needs to recognize 699 00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:17,320 Speaker 3: as also having a lot of detrimental impacts. And this 700 00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:21,240 Speaker 3: idea of less frequent openings of the apps, I think 701 00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:22,480 Speaker 3: is the only answer. 702 00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:22,560 Speaker 2: To be honest. 703 00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:24,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, good luck with that, and you might have 704 00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:25,880 Speaker 1: inspired a few listeners. 705 00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:27,040 Speaker 3: We didn't do the singing. 706 00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:30,720 Speaker 1: Oh, the singing, Yes, singing is important us. 707 00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:32,120 Speaker 3: With the singing, I don't want to add that at 708 00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:34,800 Speaker 3: the end of it, because it's so good for us singing, 709 00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:36,920 Speaker 3: and I think lots of people have experienced that moment, 710 00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:38,840 Speaker 3: like driving in their car on their own and singing 711 00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:41,200 Speaker 3: a song and actually concluding in the head that they're 712 00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:43,600 Speaker 3: quite a good singer and like dancing around in their car, 713 00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:46,800 Speaker 3: Singing is phenomenal for that endorphin system. And if ever 714 00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:48,720 Speaker 3: you're pretty stressed out, or if ever you know that 715 00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:50,520 Speaker 3: you're going to have quite a stressful day ahead with 716 00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:52,880 Speaker 3: work or whatever it may be, If when you're driving 717 00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:54,560 Speaker 3: in your car or you're on a walk with music 718 00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:57,080 Speaker 3: on or something, if you can sing, it's phenomenal for 719 00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:59,400 Speaker 3: that chemical. The more you go for it, the more 720 00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:01,360 Speaker 3: beneficially it's going to be. So whether that's in front 721 00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:03,280 Speaker 3: of people, like if you're confident like that, that's cool. 722 00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:05,000 Speaker 3: If you're like me and you're pretty bad at singing, 723 00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:07,080 Speaker 3: just singing on your own, but really going for it 724 00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:09,040 Speaker 3: is incredible for distressing. 725 00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:10,680 Speaker 2: Your brain a lot more singing this year. Thanks for 726 00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:12,640 Speaker 2: remembering that one, and sorry were mister it and thank 727 00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:14,640 Speaker 2: you gratitude for you coming in today. 728 00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:16,400 Speaker 1: Thank you on your holiday. 729 00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:17,560 Speaker 3: I've loved it. 730 00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:25,120 Speaker 2: Well, friends, listeners, fans. If you do want to read 731 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:27,560 Speaker 2: more about the Dose Effect, his book is by the 732 00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:28,080 Speaker 2: same name. 733 00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:28,880 Speaker 1: It is out now. 734 00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:31,680 Speaker 2: It is actually really good, a great book for twenty 735 00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:34,160 Speaker 2: twenty five. You can dip in and dip out, learn 736 00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:38,680 Speaker 2: a bit about all the different neurotransmitters and well how 737 00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:42,400 Speaker 2: you can harness it to regulate your emotions this year. Hey, 738 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:46,000 Speaker 2: thanks for listening to this episode. Thank sure you rate 739 00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:48,080 Speaker 2: and review it, tell us what you think anything else, 740 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:50,360 Speaker 2: head to bodyansoul dot com dot you follow us on socials, 741 00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:52,200 Speaker 2: grab our print edition which is out in your local 742 00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:55,000 Speaker 2: Sunday paper. If you do have any direct feedback, you 743 00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:59,120 Speaker 2: can DM me at Felicity Harley across socials. Anyway, thanks 744 00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:02,080 Speaker 2: again for listening and until next time, stay hopy. 745 00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:10,840 Speaker 3: Hm