WEBVTT - #1999 Navigating Grief - Rachel Pope 0:00:00.360 --> 0:00:02.640 I get a tam it's a bloody you prob jacked. 0:00:02.800 --> 0:00:06.600 It's Monday. It's no Undy Monday. So happy to be here. 0:00:07.640 --> 0:00:10.559 Do you know what no Undy Monday is, Tiff, Probably 0:00:10.600 --> 0:00:11.840 not a term you're familiar with. 0:00:12.640 --> 0:00:14.560 Do you similar to pants off Friday? 0:00:15.080 --> 0:00:19.639 No? No, it's the netty girls that I used to 0:00:19.680 --> 0:00:23.119 work with at the end of the season that have 0:00:23.200 --> 0:00:26.239 no Undy Monday. You know how they have Mad Monday, 0:00:26.280 --> 0:00:29.200 the boys have Mad Monday after the footy. So the 0:00:29.240 --> 0:00:32.280 girls coined this no Undy Monday, which I will say 0:00:32.400 --> 0:00:35.199 is just a name there, not that I checked, but 0:00:35.280 --> 0:00:42.080 I'm sure. I'm sure that they were covered as they 0:00:42.120 --> 0:00:44.800 should be. But it just caught on and that just 0:00:44.920 --> 0:00:47.280 now that's a thing, and it's been for a couple 0:00:47.320 --> 0:00:49.519 of decades now. I think no Undy Monday is like 0:00:49.600 --> 0:00:54.840 the lady equivalent for the girls in the netty anyway, anyway, 0:00:54.960 --> 0:00:58.240 probably Rachel Pipe didn't need to know any of that, 0:00:58.360 --> 0:01:03.120 high rage. Is it no Honday Monday for you? Or 0:01:03.120 --> 0:01:06.560 are you well and truly equipped? Well and truly equipped good? 0:01:06.959 --> 0:01:10.000 Just just checking tip hour? Is your weekend? 0:01:10.600 --> 0:01:12.760 Very good? Thanks? Big Cold, I'm ready for summer. 0:01:12.920 --> 0:01:17.200 Come on, are you bloody cold? In the thriving metropolis 0:01:17.240 --> 0:01:19.240 of hamp Dough. I just walked down the street to 0:01:19.240 --> 0:01:22.160 the old soupye to get myself a couple of supplies 0:01:23.120 --> 0:01:26.200 fucking freeze in Jim. I didn't wear a jacket. I'm like, 0:01:26.200 --> 0:01:29.679 what am I a fucking wilderness man? I got one 0:01:29.760 --> 0:01:31.520 hundred meters from the house. I'm like, I don't know 0:01:31.560 --> 0:01:32.520 if I can make it. 0:01:33.200 --> 0:01:34.440 Jump in the ocean this morning? 0:01:34.880 --> 0:01:38.440 Come on, Yeah, that's ridiculous. Whereabouts to jump in the ocean? Yeah, 0:01:38.480 --> 0:01:43.120 but it's like twenty degrees or thirty degrees? How, what's 0:01:43.240 --> 0:01:44.800 what's the tamp of the ocean up there? 0:01:45.120 --> 0:01:49.520 It's still cold? Yeah? What's twenty? I would say below twenty? 0:01:49.600 --> 0:01:52.559 It's it's five degrees in Melbourne in the morning, below 0:01:52.680 --> 0:01:55.720 twenty hacking below twenty? Oh you poor thing. 0:01:55.800 --> 0:01:57.560 You get in once you're in fine? 0:01:58.160 --> 0:02:02.840 Hmmm, Rach, How it's been quite a while have you been? 0:02:03.280 --> 0:02:04.800 Have you been busy and good? 0:02:05.240 --> 0:02:09.639 I have been busy and good, parenting, running my business, 0:02:09.760 --> 0:02:13.840 doing all those things. Have two young adults now, wow, 0:02:13.880 --> 0:02:18.600 so not nineteen and seventeen, just you know, spreading their 0:02:18.639 --> 0:02:19.680 wings out into the world. 0:02:19.760 --> 0:02:23.560 So it's yeah, is it weird when you don't have 0:02:23.880 --> 0:02:26.959 children anymore. They're not really adult or did you say 0:02:26.960 --> 0:02:28.160 one's nineteen. 0:02:29.200 --> 0:02:30.880 University an adult? 0:02:30.919 --> 0:02:35.000 She's straight up adult. But yeah, but it's like you've 0:02:35.000 --> 0:02:38.000 got them. They're you know, they're kind of adult ish 0:02:38.080 --> 0:02:43.120 but not fully fledged adults with all the burden and 0:02:43.240 --> 0:02:45.640 weight of being a forty year old with a mortgage. 0:02:45.680 --> 0:02:48.200 But they're not children. What's that been? Like? 0:02:48.960 --> 0:02:53.760 I was exacting, everyone give me young children, babies anytime. 0:02:53.840 --> 0:02:56.880 As far as worry and anxiety and all the stress 0:02:56.880 --> 0:02:59.400 that's going. I think because we know so much more 0:02:59.440 --> 0:03:01.760 now we can did buy phones, it probably adds to it. 0:03:01.800 --> 0:03:03.480 I was having the chat with my mum the other day. 0:03:03.480 --> 0:03:07.000 I was like, how I was tearing around Southeast Queensland 0:03:07.000 --> 0:03:11.560 in Cessna's at seventeen. How on earth did you cope 0:03:11.600 --> 0:03:14.119 not with our phones, like knowing when I'm landed, when 0:03:14.160 --> 0:03:17.840 I you know, and my son's driving and you know 0:03:17.919 --> 0:03:22.519 he's got his car and just eighteenth, the year of 0:03:22.560 --> 0:03:25.239 eighteenth and things like that. Yes, yes, aliety is through 0:03:25.240 --> 0:03:26.919 the roof, you know, she said. I used to pace 0:03:27.040 --> 0:03:29.520 the floor. That's all we could do was paste the ploor. 0:03:29.520 --> 0:03:33.200 And it's just that next next season of parenting, you know, 0:03:33.560 --> 0:03:35.520 so not knowing where they are, what they're doing. 0:03:36.040 --> 0:03:39.360 It's kind of I think it's every parent's you know, challenge, 0:03:39.400 --> 0:03:43.200 isn't it. But you it's hard because of course you're 0:03:43.240 --> 0:03:44.600 going to care, of course you're going to worry. Of 0:03:44.680 --> 0:03:47.040 course there's going to be anxiety. But at the same time, 0:03:47.120 --> 0:03:49.360 none of that really helps. It doesn't help the kid, 0:03:49.440 --> 0:03:53.640 it doesn't help you. It's like it's it's completely understandable, 0:03:53.680 --> 0:03:56.440 but also not a great investment of energy or time. 0:03:57.480 --> 0:04:01.880 But I guess it's not something that we can turn off. 0:04:01.920 --> 0:04:04.320 But I forgot you were a pilot. You were flying, 0:04:05.240 --> 0:04:07.560 You were flying when you were like seven a eighteen? 0:04:07.680 --> 0:04:08.760 Did you say like you were? 0:04:09.360 --> 0:04:12.720 I my private pilot's license before I could drive. So 0:04:12.800 --> 0:04:16.360 I used to catch train and two buses to get 0:04:16.360 --> 0:04:20.760 out to Archfield in Brisbane by seven am at seventeen 0:04:21.640 --> 0:04:24.520 and yeah, I had a hell of a time. It 0:04:24.600 --> 0:04:27.320 was so much fun. So I maintained my private license 0:04:27.400 --> 0:04:30.000 for six years. I think about the age of twenty five. 0:04:30.040 --> 0:04:33.600 I had my instrument rating and night rating and had 0:04:33.600 --> 0:04:37.720 done all my airline transport exams and a Bachelor of 0:04:37.720 --> 0:04:41.040 Science major Aviation at Griffith university. 0:04:41.480 --> 0:04:45.560 Wow, you like straight up bloody naval aviator And we're back. 0:04:45.600 --> 0:04:48.320 We just had an interlude because Tiff wanted to yell 0:04:48.360 --> 0:04:50.440 at me yet again for my mic technique. You know, 0:04:51.160 --> 0:04:54.520 I when I'm going to take I'm going to throw 0:04:54.560 --> 0:04:58.400 these headphones away because that gives me a false because 0:04:58.400 --> 0:05:00.680 what you here. We probably I need to do this 0:05:00.720 --> 0:05:04.320 on the podcast. But yeah, no, let's have a staff 0:05:04.360 --> 0:05:07.200 meeting right now. Raging at comfy sit in the typ 0:05:07.360 --> 0:05:10.279 bean bag. It's over there by the typ pinball machine, 0:05:11.520 --> 0:05:13.600 next to the typ diet coke and the fridge that 0:05:13.680 --> 0:05:19.120 tip drinks. But in my ears, it sounds good like 0:05:19.200 --> 0:05:21.479 it sounds like the right distance. But this is this 0:05:21.520 --> 0:05:25.440 is the deception of headphones. For this, It's like, for you, 0:05:25.520 --> 0:05:28.000 I sound too close and too loud sometimes. 0:05:27.680 --> 0:05:29.800 Right Yep, next time I'm in Hampton, I'm going to 0:05:29.880 --> 0:05:32.920 come and do a sound check because you definitely I'm 0:05:32.920 --> 0:05:34.800 not saying I don't believe you, but I don't let. 0:05:34.640 --> 0:05:36.840 People in my house. I don't let people in my house. 0:05:37.160 --> 0:05:38.960 Well, you're going to have sound for the rest of 0:05:39.000 --> 0:05:41.599 the type. Everybody helped me out here. 0:05:42.000 --> 0:05:45.680 Oh no, somebody already did that this morning and You're like, 0:05:45.720 --> 0:05:49.640 oh yeah, fucking told him? Oh God, no, don't everyone 0:05:50.680 --> 0:05:53.719 uh back to you? Rage? Sure way? Is this is 0:05:53.760 --> 0:05:55.800 this where I am? Now, Tiff? Is that good? 0:05:55.880 --> 0:05:56.680 That's fabulous? 0:05:57.080 --> 0:06:00.000 Is that fabulous? Yep? Now I'm about three ft off. 0:06:00.640 --> 0:06:02.120 I'm going to stand on top of the house and 0:06:02.120 --> 0:06:06.520 I'll just broadcast through a fucking megaphone instead. God send 0:06:06.520 --> 0:06:09.040 a carrier pigeon out to all our listeners and butcher 0:06:09.080 --> 0:06:14.920 paper rach. Now, it's been quite a while now without 0:06:15.240 --> 0:06:20.680 without doing a monologue of what's already been done. But 0:06:20.800 --> 0:06:23.719 just for those people who either didn't hear the first 0:06:23.760 --> 0:06:28.720 episode or our first chat or your story, who are 0:06:28.760 --> 0:06:31.280 unfamiliar with your story, which maybe they didn't hear it 0:06:31.320 --> 0:06:33.000 first time around, but also we've got a whole bunch 0:06:33.040 --> 0:06:37.000 of new listeners since then. Can you give us however 0:06:37.040 --> 0:06:39.799 long you want, doesn't matter if it's short or long, 0:06:41.080 --> 0:06:43.919 just your background, so when we start talking about what 0:06:43.920 --> 0:06:47.000 we're talking about, people have context. 0:06:47.960 --> 0:06:52.000 Sure, Thank Graig. So. I grew up the youngest of 0:06:52.080 --> 0:06:56.200 three older brothers, and my eldest brother was a paraplegic. 0:06:56.880 --> 0:07:02.160 He was born with a neuro blastile on his attached 0:07:02.160 --> 0:07:04.560 to his spine, that filled his whole chest cavity as 0:07:04.560 --> 0:07:07.160 a baby, and it wasn't discovered until he was on 0:07:07.160 --> 0:07:12.160 an infant later and series of operations in and out 0:07:12.160 --> 0:07:14.360 of hospital for many many years. So I was one 0:07:14.400 --> 0:07:16.760 at the time when he was born. Nine years older. 0:07:17.920 --> 0:07:21.120 An operation at ten paralyzed him from the waist down 0:07:21.560 --> 0:07:23.840 and so he could walk with calipers and different therapies 0:07:23.880 --> 0:07:25.760 up until then at the age of ten he was 0:07:25.840 --> 0:07:28.920 wheelchair bound. Wow, So that don't put a little perspective 0:07:28.960 --> 0:07:33.840 on my upbringing with incredible parents who gave him the 0:07:33.880 --> 0:07:39.360 most amazing, adventurous life breaking down those barriers around disability. 0:07:39.480 --> 0:07:44.840 So my brother Brett competed in games, he played table tennis, basketball, swim, 0:07:45.520 --> 0:07:50.440 lived in America, just did all the things and was very, 0:07:50.520 --> 0:07:54.800 very independent. And I put that down to my parents. 0:07:55.960 --> 0:07:58.240 I can remember my mum talking about other people saying 0:07:58.280 --> 0:08:00.000 to her, why are you having all these other children 0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:03.600 and you've got a child with disability. And I feel that. 0:08:03.840 --> 0:08:06.920 You know, if you meet somebody who has had a 0:08:06.960 --> 0:08:11.440 sibling with a disability, or whether that be physical or 0:08:11.800 --> 0:08:16.080 a mental disability, they kind of got a different perspective 0:08:16.240 --> 0:08:20.720 from the get go. Growing upright as kids had things 0:08:20.760 --> 0:08:22.400 to do with Bratt. My mum was up you know, 0:08:22.440 --> 0:08:24.480 a few times a night, and always his care and 0:08:24.560 --> 0:08:26.880 in hospital. One stage he was in hospital for a 0:08:26.920 --> 0:08:32.680 whole year in Melbourne and full halo traction. He's been 0:08:33.920 --> 0:08:36.880 in full body plaster on a trolley on the ground. 0:08:36.960 --> 0:08:42.559 This is in the sixties and seventies. Amazing man, and 0:08:42.600 --> 0:08:45.440 I write about him in my book as well. Sadly, 0:08:45.480 --> 0:08:49.360 he passed away in a car accident at the age 0:08:49.400 --> 0:08:53.400 of thirty three. I was twenty wow, eight years prior 0:08:53.440 --> 0:08:55.360 to that when you lost my dad, so I was 0:08:55.400 --> 0:08:59.959 seventeen flying, had just stepped out into the world, graduate 0:09:00.040 --> 0:09:02.240 in high school. What's meant to be the most exciting 0:09:02.600 --> 0:09:06.200 time of your life? I had been flying. I had 0:09:06.200 --> 0:09:09.360 been accepted into the Royal Queensland Era Club and a 0:09:09.400 --> 0:09:12.199 bachelor program at Griffith, and I had always wanted to 0:09:12.200 --> 0:09:14.880 be a pilot. I had since about the age of twelve. 0:09:15.000 --> 0:09:18.000 No one else in my family. Flew was very musical 0:09:18.040 --> 0:09:20.560 as well, and so much too, I think my parents 0:09:20.920 --> 0:09:25.120 investing so much money into music tuition. I auditioned for 0:09:25.160 --> 0:09:28.120 the Conservatorium, all the things, but I wanted to fly, 0:09:28.440 --> 0:09:31.400 and I got accepted and they were proud as punch, 0:09:31.520 --> 0:09:34.120 and so we had to start our flight training before 0:09:34.200 --> 0:09:36.920 YUNI started in the February. So right from just after 0:09:37.000 --> 0:09:39.520 Christmas January, I've got my private pilot's license. I was 0:09:40.200 --> 0:09:43.120 clocking up the hours, doing all the doing all the things. 0:09:43.120 --> 0:09:45.679 It was only I think four of us females out 0:09:45.679 --> 0:09:50.920 of about one hundred guys doing the program. All the 0:09:50.920 --> 0:09:54.760 instructors were men. So that alone, you know, I learned 0:09:54.800 --> 0:10:00.920 a lot looking back on that time. Yeah, but there's 0:10:00.920 --> 0:10:03.160 a whole lot of stories around that, and females and 0:10:06.080 --> 0:10:09.880 flying in Australia is still about six percent the percentage 0:10:09.920 --> 0:10:12.920 at the moment, so that came with its own difficulties. 0:10:13.000 --> 0:10:16.080 But three months after I started my flying, my dad 0:10:16.200 --> 0:10:19.960 was diagnosed with aggressive bowel cancer and he was basically 0:10:20.000 --> 0:10:24.520 sent home, no treatment, had an operation, basically sent home 0:10:24.600 --> 0:10:28.720 and he passed six weeks later. So it was very fast. Wow, 0:10:28.720 --> 0:10:32.680 and at seventeen, you are not equipped. I'm not how 0:10:32.679 --> 0:10:34.400 to deal with that. My dad was my king, you know, 0:10:34.520 --> 0:10:38.679 being the youngest and only girl. I was princess with 0:10:38.800 --> 0:10:41.480 a very tight close family because of Brett as well, 0:10:43.480 --> 0:10:49.600 and he was forty seven and young, super young, So 0:10:50.559 --> 0:10:52.360 the only way I knew how to deal with that 0:10:52.520 --> 0:10:54.520 at the time, and I just remember a stream of 0:10:54.520 --> 0:10:56.559 people coming in and out of the house. His parents 0:10:56.600 --> 0:10:58.400 were still I came over from New Zealand, they're in 0:10:58.400 --> 0:11:03.800 their eighties to see him, and a stream of people 0:11:03.840 --> 0:11:05.800 coming in and out of house to see him, say 0:11:05.800 --> 0:11:07.680 he's goodbyes. I would get up in the morning, I'd 0:11:07.679 --> 0:11:11.040 play him a piece on the piano. I'd get into 0:11:11.080 --> 0:11:14.160 my uniform and I would go out and I would fly, 0:11:14.559 --> 0:11:16.440 and I just, you know, I just I don't know. 0:11:16.640 --> 0:11:18.839 I do not know how I did that. I really 0:11:18.920 --> 0:11:23.400 really do not know. Head down, bum up. And then 0:11:23.720 --> 0:11:26.040 on the weekends I would go out and get trashed 0:11:26.080 --> 0:11:27.880 and drunk with all my UNI mats, because that's what 0:11:27.920 --> 0:11:33.120 you do when he's seventeen and eighteen in uniculture. And 0:11:33.200 --> 0:11:35.240 they didn't know how to support me. They didn't know one. 0:11:35.440 --> 0:11:41.000 They hadn't known anybody to pass maybe a grandparent. And 0:11:41.640 --> 0:11:43.000 I just thought, I have to keep going. I have 0:11:43.040 --> 0:11:44.559 to make my day proud. I just have to keep 0:11:44.559 --> 0:11:46.760 going with this degree. I have to keep flying, keep 0:11:46.800 --> 0:11:48.880 and I was passing. I was, you know, I did 0:11:48.920 --> 0:11:51.520 defer some of the UNI component because I was a 0:11:51.559 --> 0:11:56.200 bit overwhelmed and I just head down, bump up, and 0:11:56.280 --> 0:11:58.480 just kept going. So it was very much to put 0:11:58.520 --> 0:12:01.480 it all under the carpet, don't talk about it. My 0:12:01.520 --> 0:12:03.520 friends are there for me when I had to cry, 0:12:03.720 --> 0:12:07.480 and that was it. So then eight years later we 0:12:07.520 --> 0:12:10.400 lost Bratt in that car accident, and just to bring 0:12:10.480 --> 0:12:13.400 my grief story and what were the topic we're talking 0:12:13.440 --> 0:12:20.400 on today full circle. I gave up flying when my 0:12:20.440 --> 0:12:23.800 brother passed. That was a huge perspective moment for me 0:12:23.880 --> 0:12:26.079 on life. Career is what I really wanted to do. 0:12:26.440 --> 0:12:29.160 I looked on that conveyor belt of airline pilots. I 0:12:29.200 --> 0:12:32.080 had met my husband by then, and I thought, you know, 0:12:32.679 --> 0:12:34.920 I'm not too sure that's the lifestyle I want as 0:12:34.960 --> 0:12:38.800 a mum and wife. So that took a lot to 0:12:38.840 --> 0:12:42.520 walk away from. And I ended up in early learning 0:12:42.559 --> 0:12:46.440 and bought a franchise after I had we got married, 0:12:46.480 --> 0:12:49.320 we had our kids, and I fell in love with 0:12:49.559 --> 0:12:51.959 early learning and neurological development and kids. I wanted to 0:12:52.040 --> 0:12:56.600 learn about my kids and their development, So we bought 0:12:56.640 --> 0:12:58.760 a Gimbiree franchise for me. It was going to be 0:12:58.760 --> 0:13:02.959 an amazing, you know business for me, something that I love, 0:13:03.040 --> 0:13:05.920 something I could take my kids with they started school, 0:13:05.960 --> 0:13:08.800 we bought the franchise, and two weeks after we signed 0:13:08.800 --> 0:13:14.560 that paper and bought that business, a small business, my 0:13:14.720 --> 0:13:17.600 husband was diagnosed with the same cancer at the same 0:13:17.640 --> 0:13:18.120 age as. 0:13:18.040 --> 0:13:25.880 My dad, so tragically weird and like if it was like, 0:13:26.800 --> 0:13:30.160 you know, if your dad was well, I mean, if 0:13:30.160 --> 0:13:32.800 it was blood you go, oh, that kind of makes sense. 0:13:32.840 --> 0:13:36.640 But it doesn't make sense, does it. Like there's no correlation. 0:13:37.160 --> 0:13:39.640 You know, it's not like, oh, well, yeah, that makes 0:13:39.640 --> 0:13:43.280 sense because they were blood relatives or whatever. But because 0:13:43.640 --> 0:13:45.319 when you first said that, I went, oh, that kind 0:13:45.400 --> 0:13:48.160 I mean, oh no, it doesn't make sense at all. Okay, 0:13:48.320 --> 0:13:50.960 So so you find that out they're the same age, 0:13:51.080 --> 0:13:56.200 and what was the prognosis ray your husband? Yes, what 0:13:56.360 --> 0:13:58.000 was his prognosis at that time? 0:13:58.600 --> 0:14:01.199 Well, of course immediately for me from my previous experience, 0:14:01.200 --> 0:14:02.839 so I was you're going to be dead in six 0:14:02.880 --> 0:14:06.880 weeks because that was my prior experience. Obviously, a lot 0:14:06.920 --> 0:14:09.120 more twenty years on, a lot more treatments, a lot 0:14:09.120 --> 0:14:14.360 more options available. We went down many roads, as you 0:14:14.440 --> 0:14:17.400 do when you're caring with somebody with cancer, and every 0:14:17.800 --> 0:14:21.080 information that's thrown at you. Now we did lots of things, 0:14:21.800 --> 0:14:25.080 and we had sixty months of him at home with 0:14:25.160 --> 0:14:29.560 the kids and he was amazing and handled you couldn't 0:14:29.560 --> 0:14:33.160 even actually tell he was He did a different series 0:14:33.200 --> 0:14:35.400 of chemo and things like that, He never lost his hair, 0:14:35.560 --> 0:14:40.280 was still riding his bike taking kids to school. Apart 0:14:40.320 --> 0:14:42.680 from you know, those downtimes in between and the week 0:14:43.400 --> 0:14:46.480 to look at he was a very fit, healthy. Mountain 0:14:46.560 --> 0:14:52.800 biking was his his outlet and he loved it. And yeah, 0:14:52.960 --> 0:14:57.000 so right up until the very end. And then we 0:14:57.040 --> 0:14:59.280 spent a month in Sydney with a surgeon down there 0:14:59.320 --> 0:15:02.360 that was willing to operate on his liver because it's 0:15:02.360 --> 0:15:05.880 spread to his liver. When we were told that that 0:15:06.000 --> 0:15:09.120 wasn't going to happen because they found some more cancer 0:15:09.200 --> 0:15:12.320 up in the back of his neck. When he was 0:15:12.360 --> 0:15:14.480 told that, I think I saw the light kind of 0:15:14.520 --> 0:15:17.920 disappeared then, because he basically told, you know, we'll just 0:15:17.920 --> 0:15:22.040 do more treatment, prolonged quality of life, and that wasn't 0:15:22.280 --> 0:15:25.480 for him. So we came home and he passed away 0:15:25.480 --> 0:15:26.160 two weeks later. 0:15:26.720 --> 0:15:26.880 MM. 0:15:27.880 --> 0:15:29.480 The kids were four and six. 0:15:30.560 --> 0:15:37.000 Yeah, yeah, so many things. But when we chatted before 0:15:37.880 --> 0:15:41.640 we pressed the go button today, you said something like 0:15:42.920 --> 0:15:46.560 you had to listen to our first chat, which you liked. 0:15:46.600 --> 0:15:48.720 I loved it too, and it was we got such 0:15:48.720 --> 0:15:52.320 good feedback. And if you haven't heard that, everyone have listens. 0:15:52.360 --> 0:15:57.760 Really it's really I was going to say, it's notice. 0:15:57.800 --> 0:16:00.360 It is nice. It's like it's sad, it's trade, but 0:16:00.400 --> 0:16:03.640 it's nice and it's for a lot of people going 0:16:03.680 --> 0:16:08.200 to be very very relevant and very what's the word, 0:16:08.440 --> 0:16:15.360 very inspiring and very revealing, because I feel like, you know, 0:16:15.680 --> 0:16:17.920 we're not great at grief. I mean, you're the expert. 0:16:17.960 --> 0:16:22.000 I'm not the expert. But my second mom who is 0:16:22.080 --> 0:16:24.320 that's a weird thing. But my mum's best friend, who 0:16:24.360 --> 0:16:27.120 basically was my second mom, you know, growing up. She 0:16:27.240 --> 0:16:30.240 died a couple of days after Christmas. And you might 0:16:30.240 --> 0:16:32.160 have heard me talk about this, but I sat with her, 0:16:32.600 --> 0:16:34.320 and she had about forty eight hours to live, and 0:16:34.360 --> 0:16:36.360 I sat in the hospital with her, just me and her, 0:16:37.320 --> 0:16:43.280 and I can remember nearly everything we said. And it 0:16:43.360 --> 0:16:45.960 was an hour and a half and it was profound 0:16:46.240 --> 0:16:51.200 and like I felt selfish, but I think she knew 0:16:51.920 --> 0:16:54.080 that I needed to be there to talk to her. 0:16:55.120 --> 0:16:57.000 She probably didn't need I mean, she wanted to talk 0:16:57.040 --> 0:17:01.040 to me, but you know, it was self indulgent, but 0:17:01.160 --> 0:17:04.560 just spending that time with her and excuse me, saying 0:17:04.560 --> 0:17:06.800 all the things I needed to say or I wanted 0:17:06.800 --> 0:17:11.199 to say and vice versa was incredibly therapeutic. But I 0:17:11.280 --> 0:17:14.040 still think, you know, coming out of that and we've 0:17:14.040 --> 0:17:18.440 had even tiff. Have you thought about this? Sorry, Rach, 0:17:18.520 --> 0:17:20.320 we'll get back on, but we're still talking in the 0:17:20.359 --> 0:17:23.920 same space people that have been on this podcast, because 0:17:23.920 --> 0:17:27.159 it's episode two thousand. In a few days, you know, 0:17:27.280 --> 0:17:30.000 Johnny Raffo, we had the beautiful Johnny Ruffo passed away, 0:17:30.640 --> 0:17:34.720 Danny Frawley, the amazing Danny Frawley, AFL player, AFL coach, 0:17:35.240 --> 0:17:39.879 a guy called Simon Hammond who was great. He written 0:17:39.920 --> 0:17:42.520 a couple of books. He was in marketing and branding. 0:17:42.600 --> 0:17:46.359 Simon and I were friends, and of course my friend Nima, 0:17:46.960 --> 0:17:50.359 who were very good friends. He passed away, and I 0:17:50.400 --> 0:17:54.199 feel like there might be one more person. I'm just 0:17:54.240 --> 0:17:58.639 doing this Kerwin Ray of course of Kerwin, and I think, wow, 0:17:58.800 --> 0:18:02.160 it's like and that since we started this show, that's 0:18:02.200 --> 0:18:04.960 five people who sat here just like us, three now 0:18:05.119 --> 0:18:09.040 talking just like us three now, and they're gone, you know, 0:18:09.119 --> 0:18:13.439 they're gone. And I guess that's the thing is that 0:18:13.480 --> 0:18:16.040 there's no we've said this perform but there's no formula, 0:18:16.080 --> 0:18:18.760 there's no three step plan. But back to you, Rate, 0:18:18.920 --> 0:18:22.840 you said that you've kind of like in the space 0:18:22.880 --> 0:18:27.480 of understanding grief and talking about grief and your awareness 0:18:27.520 --> 0:18:30.960 around it and how to help others, Like that's really 0:18:31.000 --> 0:18:34.000 developed and evolved in the last few years. Like what 0:18:34.000 --> 0:18:37.199 do you know now? What are you sharing now that 0:18:37.520 --> 0:18:38.880 you weren't a few years ago? 0:18:40.880 --> 0:18:43.480 Yeah, So you know what led me on that journey 0:18:43.520 --> 0:18:45.720 was when I went looking for resources as a young widow. 0:18:46.920 --> 0:18:50.040 There was a lot out there for over sixties, yes, 0:18:50.600 --> 0:18:53.600 in community, online, all these things, and I couldn't find 0:18:53.600 --> 0:18:55.879 anything that really spoke to me as a young widow. 0:18:56.480 --> 0:18:59.160 But what I also found was all this grief came 0:18:59.200 --> 0:19:02.000 bubbling up from my dad and my brother, and I realized, 0:19:02.080 --> 0:19:05.320 I really haven't processed that, and I'm feeling all this again, 0:19:05.400 --> 0:19:07.920 and what is this? What is what is this? What's 0:19:08.119 --> 0:19:13.480 this grief all about? What's my future look like? So researching, reading, 0:19:13.560 --> 0:19:16.680 trying to find stuff online, googling, and coming across all 0:19:16.760 --> 0:19:20.679 these five stages. And that's something that I want to 0:19:20.680 --> 0:19:22.479 touch on because we touched on in the first episode. 0:19:22.480 --> 0:19:26.720 I've learned so much more since then, and you know, 0:19:26.840 --> 0:19:29.000 different therapies that I'd had over the years that just 0:19:29.080 --> 0:19:35.080 really didn't work for me because of that lack of 0:19:35.600 --> 0:19:38.040 maybe empathy or lived experience on the other side of 0:19:38.040 --> 0:19:42.600 the table and textbook stuff and really wasn't talking about 0:19:42.600 --> 0:19:45.280 what I was actually feeling. So I started writing, started 0:19:45.320 --> 0:19:49.760 journaling and went to your retreat with Melissa, and my 0:19:49.800 --> 0:19:53.040 book was born and wrote that. Then after that, I thought, 0:19:53.080 --> 0:19:55.159 you know, how else can I help people? And I 0:19:55.240 --> 0:19:58.040 need to do more. So I studied a bit more 0:19:58.480 --> 0:20:02.000 with the Grief Recovery Institute WA with amazing psychologists named 0:20:02.000 --> 0:20:06.119 Amanda Ambros and she taught me about action steps and 0:20:06.160 --> 0:20:09.159 the Grief Recovery method and this evidence based program that 0:20:10.880 --> 0:20:15.760 actually gives people tools to process any kind of unresolved grief. 0:20:15.840 --> 0:20:21.119 And I was like unresolved grief and also debunking that 0:20:21.840 --> 0:20:25.160 myth around the five stages, so if I can enlighten 0:20:25.240 --> 0:20:29.920 because I know I didn't in the first episode. Those 0:20:29.960 --> 0:20:34.680 five stages of grief were written by Elizabeth Koobler Ross 0:20:34.720 --> 0:20:37.600 in her book on Death and Dying in the sixties, 0:20:38.480 --> 0:20:40.400 and what a lot of people don't know is that 0:20:40.440 --> 0:20:43.119 those stages were written at The paper was written for 0:20:43.200 --> 0:20:49.280 somebody with a terminal diagnosis who was faced with a 0:20:49.400 --> 0:20:52.439 terminal diagnosis on death and dying, someone who knows that 0:20:52.440 --> 0:20:55.159 they're going to pass away. And so she studied and 0:20:55.160 --> 0:20:59.480 wrote about these common emotions that these people would move 0:20:59.520 --> 0:21:04.280 through in her amazing work in Prospice and things like that, 0:21:04.400 --> 0:21:08.119 so you can understand that denial, anger, acceptance if you 0:21:08.160 --> 0:21:10.720 know you're going to pass. And what happened after that 0:21:11.119 --> 0:21:17.040 is that these stages within misused, spread in different books 0:21:17.040 --> 0:21:21.800 and therapies as just the stages of grief, not the 0:21:21.840 --> 0:21:24.679 stages of someone who has been given a terminal diagnosis. 0:21:24.720 --> 0:21:27.919 And yes we do experience some of those things, but 0:21:28.119 --> 0:21:31.280 it's not a linear train. It's not something that you know, 0:21:31.359 --> 0:21:34.120 we can experience as a griever. And we'll talk about 0:21:34.119 --> 0:21:39.040 all different types of griefs as well that we you know, 0:21:39.280 --> 0:21:41.280 go on. Because I can remember being told that and 0:21:41.320 --> 0:21:44.160 I'm like, well, it says depression is coming up next. 0:21:44.200 --> 0:21:47.159 I don't want to. I don't want to depression station. 0:21:47.920 --> 0:21:50.359 You know, I'm a positive person. I have had gratitude 0:21:50.400 --> 0:21:53.280 with the perspective growing up with my brother Bred and 0:21:53.520 --> 0:21:57.240 having experienced those things and my resilience from just from flying, 0:21:57.320 --> 0:22:00.879 that teaches you so much as al you have to 0:22:00.960 --> 0:22:07.320 learn so much resilience. And I didn't want that to 0:22:07.400 --> 0:22:09.200 be told that. I'm like, no, I'm not going through 0:22:09.200 --> 0:22:11.800 these stages. Yes I feel angry sometimes, Yes I feel 0:22:11.800 --> 0:22:13.640 this sometimes, but that could all be in one day. 0:22:14.320 --> 0:22:16.960 And so when I learned this, it was just like, Wow, 0:22:17.680 --> 0:22:20.800 what a light bulb. And how often people are told that, 0:22:20.960 --> 0:22:24.320 and how often then it can cause this mistreatment or 0:22:24.359 --> 0:22:28.720 also misunderstanding, And then they can withdraw, they can isolate 0:22:29.320 --> 0:22:32.359 because they're reading these things around grief and what their 0:22:33.000 --> 0:22:36.840 people are putting on them expected to be experiencing. 0:22:37.480 --> 0:22:43.400 Sure, yeah, I think it's really it's precarious when you're 0:22:43.440 --> 0:22:45.320 talking about the mind and the way that the mind 0:22:45.359 --> 0:22:50.960 and emotions and more broadly humans respond to all kinds 0:22:51.040 --> 0:22:53.959 of good and bad stuff in their life. Right, and 0:22:54.000 --> 0:22:57.800 we go, oh, you know, grief, this is how grief works. Nah, 0:22:57.920 --> 0:23:01.720 it's just like saying. It's just saying, oh, Rachel's got 0:23:01.720 --> 0:23:05.160