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Speaker 1: I get a tam it's a bloody you prob jacked.

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Speaker 1: It's Monday. It's no Undy Monday. So happy to be here.

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Speaker 1: Do you know what no Undy Monday is, Tiff, Probably

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Speaker 1: not a term you're familiar with.

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Speaker 2: Do you similar to pants off Friday?

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Speaker 1: No? No, it's the netty girls that I used to

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Speaker 1: work with at the end of the season that have

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Speaker 1: no Undy Monday. You know how they have Mad Monday,

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Speaker 1: the boys have Mad Monday after the footy. So the

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Speaker 1: girls coined this no Undy Monday, which I will say

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Speaker 1: is just a name there, not that I checked, but

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Speaker 1: I'm sure. I'm sure that they were covered as they

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Speaker 1: should be. But it just caught on and that just

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Speaker 1: now that's a thing, and it's been for a couple

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Speaker 1: of decades now. I think no Undy Monday is like

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Speaker 1: the lady equivalent for the girls in the netty anyway, anyway,

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Speaker 1: probably Rachel Pipe didn't need to know any of that,

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Speaker 1: high rage. Is it no Honday Monday for you? Or

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Speaker 1: are you well and truly equipped? Well and truly equipped good?

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Speaker 1: Just just checking tip hour? Is your weekend?

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Speaker 2: Very good? Thanks? Big Cold, I'm ready for summer.

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Speaker 1: Come on, are you bloody cold? In the thriving metropolis

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Speaker 1: of hamp Dough. I just walked down the street to

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Speaker 1: the old soupye to get myself a couple of supplies

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Speaker 1: fucking freeze in Jim. I didn't wear a jacket. I'm like,

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Speaker 1: what am I a fucking wilderness man? I got one

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Speaker 1: hundred meters from the house. I'm like, I don't know

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Speaker 1: if I can make it.

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Speaker 3: Jump in the ocean this morning?

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Speaker 1: Come on, Yeah, that's ridiculous. Whereabouts to jump in the ocean? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but it's like twenty degrees or thirty degrees? How, what's

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Speaker 1: what's the tamp of the ocean up there?

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Speaker 3: It's still cold? Yeah? What's twenty? I would say below twenty?

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Speaker 1: It's it's five degrees in Melbourne in the morning, below

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Speaker 1: twenty hacking below twenty? Oh you poor thing.

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Speaker 3: You get in once you're in fine?

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Speaker 1: Hmmm, Rach, How it's been quite a while have you been?

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Speaker 1: Have you been busy and good?

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Speaker 3: I have been busy and good, parenting, running my business,

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Speaker 3: doing all those things. Have two young adults now, wow,

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Speaker 3: so not nineteen and seventeen, just you know, spreading their

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Speaker 3: wings out into the world.

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Speaker 1: So it's yeah, is it weird when you don't have

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Speaker 1: children anymore. They're not really adult or did you say

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Speaker 1: one's nineteen.

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Speaker 3: University an adult?

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Speaker 1: She's straight up adult. But yeah, but it's like you've

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Speaker 1: got them. They're you know, they're kind of adult ish

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Speaker 1: but not fully fledged adults with all the burden and

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Speaker 1: weight of being a forty year old with a mortgage.

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Speaker 1: But they're not children. What's that been? Like?

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Speaker 3: I was exacting, everyone give me young children, babies anytime.

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Speaker 3: As far as worry and anxiety and all the stress

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Speaker 3: that's going. I think because we know so much more

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Speaker 3: now we can did buy phones, it probably adds to it.

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Speaker 3: I was having the chat with my mum the other day.

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Speaker 3: I was like, how I was tearing around Southeast Queensland

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Speaker 3: in Cessna's at seventeen. How on earth did you cope

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Speaker 3: not with our phones, like knowing when I'm landed, when

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Speaker 3: I you know, and my son's driving and you know

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Speaker 3: he's got his car and just eighteenth, the year of

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Speaker 3: eighteenth and things like that. Yes, yes, aliety is through

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Speaker 3: the roof, you know, she said. I used to pace

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Speaker 3: the floor. That's all we could do was paste the ploor.

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Speaker 3: And it's just that next next season of parenting, you know,

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Speaker 3: so not knowing where they are, what they're doing.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of I think it's every parent's you know, challenge,

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Speaker 1: isn't it. But you it's hard because of course you're

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Speaker 1: going to care, of course you're going to worry. Of

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Speaker 1: course there's going to be anxiety. But at the same time,

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Speaker 1: none of that really helps. It doesn't help the kid,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't help you. It's like it's it's completely understandable,

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Speaker 1: but also not a great investment of energy or time.

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Speaker 1: But I guess it's not something that we can turn off.

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Speaker 1: But I forgot you were a pilot. You were flying,

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Speaker 1: You were flying when you were like seven a eighteen?

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Speaker 1: Did you say like you were?

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Speaker 3: I my private pilot's license before I could drive. So

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Speaker 3: I used to catch train and two buses to get

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Speaker 3: out to Archfield in Brisbane by seven am at seventeen

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Speaker 3: and yeah, I had a hell of a time. It

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Speaker 3: was so much fun. So I maintained my private license

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Speaker 3: for six years. I think about the age of twenty five.

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Speaker 3: I had my instrument rating and night rating and had

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Speaker 3: done all my airline transport exams and a Bachelor of

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Speaker 3: Science major Aviation at Griffith university.

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Speaker 1: Wow, you like straight up bloody naval aviator And we're back.

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Speaker 1: We just had an interlude because Tiff wanted to yell

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Speaker 1: at me yet again for my mic technique. You know,

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Speaker 1: I when I'm going to take I'm going to throw

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Speaker 1: these headphones away because that gives me a false because

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Speaker 1: what you here. We probably I need to do this

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Speaker 1: on the podcast. But yeah, no, let's have a staff

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Speaker 1: meeting right now. Raging at comfy sit in the typ

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Speaker 1: bean bag. It's over there by the typ pinball machine,

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Speaker 1: next to the typ diet coke and the fridge that

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Speaker 1: tip drinks. But in my ears, it sounds good like

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Speaker 1: it sounds like the right distance. But this is this

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Speaker 1: is the deception of headphones. For this, It's like, for you,

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Speaker 1: I sound too close and too loud sometimes.

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Speaker 2: Right Yep, next time I'm in Hampton, I'm going to

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Speaker 2: come and do a sound check because you definitely I'm

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Speaker 2: not saying I don't believe you, but I don't let.

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Speaker 1: People in my house. I don't let people in my house.

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Speaker 2: Well, you're going to have sound for the rest of

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Speaker 2: the type. Everybody helped me out here.

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Speaker 1: Oh no, somebody already did that this morning and You're like,

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Speaker 1: oh yeah, fucking told him? Oh God, no, don't everyone

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Speaker 1: uh back to you? Rage? Sure way? Is this is

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Speaker 1: this where I am? Now, Tiff? Is that good?

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Speaker 2: That's fabulous?

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Speaker 1: Is that fabulous? Yep? Now I'm about three ft off.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to stand on top of the house and

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Speaker 1: I'll just broadcast through a fucking megaphone instead. God send

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Speaker 1: a carrier pigeon out to all our listeners and butcher

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Speaker 1: paper rach. Now, it's been quite a while now without

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Speaker 1: without doing a monologue of what's already been done. But

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Speaker 1: just for those people who either didn't hear the first

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Speaker 1: episode or our first chat or your story, who are

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Speaker 1: unfamiliar with your story, which maybe they didn't hear it

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Speaker 1: first time around, but also we've got a whole bunch

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Speaker 1: of new listeners since then. Can you give us however

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Speaker 1: long you want, doesn't matter if it's short or long,

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Speaker 1: just your background, so when we start talking about what

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Speaker 1: we're talking about, people have context.

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Speaker 3: Sure, Thank Graig. So. I grew up the youngest of

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Speaker 3: three older brothers, and my eldest brother was a paraplegic.

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Speaker 3: He was born with a neuro blastile on his attached

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Speaker 3: to his spine, that filled his whole chest cavity as

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Speaker 3: a baby, and it wasn't discovered until he was on

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Speaker 3: an infant later and series of operations in and out

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Speaker 3: of hospital for many many years. So I was one

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Speaker 3: at the time when he was born. Nine years older.

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Speaker 3: An operation at ten paralyzed him from the waist down

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Speaker 3: and so he could walk with calipers and different therapies

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Speaker 3: up until then at the age of ten he was

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Speaker 3: wheelchair bound. Wow, So that don't put a little perspective

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Speaker 3: on my upbringing with incredible parents who gave him the

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Speaker 3: most amazing, adventurous life breaking down those barriers around disability.

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Speaker 3: So my brother Brett competed in games, he played table tennis, basketball, swim,

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Speaker 3: lived in America, just did all the things and was very,

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Speaker 3: very independent. And I put that down to my parents.

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Speaker 3: I can remember my mum talking about other people saying

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Speaker 3: to her, why are you having all these other children

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Speaker 3: and you've got a child with disability. And I feel that.

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Speaker 3: You know, if you meet somebody who has had a

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Speaker 3: sibling with a disability, or whether that be physical or

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Speaker 3: a mental disability, they kind of got a different perspective

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Speaker 3: from the get go. Growing upright as kids had things

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Speaker 3: to do with Bratt. My mum was up you know,

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Speaker 3: a few times a night, and always his care and

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Speaker 3: in hospital. One stage he was in hospital for a

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Speaker 3: whole year in Melbourne and full halo traction. He's been

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Speaker 3: in full body plaster on a trolley on the ground.

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Speaker 3: This is in the sixties and seventies. Amazing man, and

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Speaker 3: I write about him in my book as well. Sadly,

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Speaker 3: he passed away in a car accident at the age

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Speaker 3: of thirty three. I was twenty wow, eight years prior

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Speaker 3: to that when you lost my dad, so I was

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Speaker 3: seventeen flying, had just stepped out into the world, graduate

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Speaker 3: in high school. What's meant to be the most exciting

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Speaker 3: time of your life? I had been flying. I had

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Speaker 3: been accepted into the Royal Queensland Era Club and a

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Speaker 3: bachelor program at Griffith, and I had always wanted to

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Speaker 3: be a pilot. I had since about the age of twelve.

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Speaker 3: No one else in my family. Flew was very musical

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Speaker 3: as well, and so much too, I think my parents

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Speaker 3: investing so much money into music tuition. I auditioned for

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Speaker 3: the Conservatorium, all the things, but I wanted to fly,

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Speaker 3: and I got accepted and they were proud as punch,

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Speaker 3: and so we had to start our flight training before

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Speaker 3: YUNI started in the February. So right from just after

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Speaker 3: Christmas January, I've got my private pilot's license. I was

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Speaker 3: clocking up the hours, doing all the doing all the things.

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Speaker 3: It was only I think four of us females out

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Speaker 3: of about one hundred guys doing the program. All the

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Speaker 3: instructors were men. So that alone, you know, I learned

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Speaker 3: a lot looking back on that time. Yeah, but there's

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Speaker 3: a whole lot of stories around that, and females and

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Speaker 3: flying in Australia is still about six percent the percentage

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Speaker 3: at the moment, so that came with its own difficulties.

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Speaker 3: But three months after I started my flying, my dad

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Speaker 3: was diagnosed with aggressive bowel cancer and he was basically

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Speaker 3: sent home, no treatment, had an operation, basically sent home

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Speaker 3: and he passed six weeks later. So it was very fast. Wow,

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Speaker 3: and at seventeen, you are not equipped. I'm not how

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Speaker 3: to deal with that. My dad was my king, you know,

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Speaker 3: being the youngest and only girl. I was princess with

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Speaker 3: a very tight close family because of Brett as well,

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Speaker 3: and he was forty seven and young, super young, So

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Speaker 3: the only way I knew how to deal with that

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Speaker 3: at the time, and I just remember a stream of

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Speaker 3: people coming in and out of the house. His parents

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Speaker 3: were still I came over from New Zealand, they're in

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Speaker 3: their eighties to see him, and a stream of people

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Speaker 3: coming in and out of house to see him, say

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Speaker 3: he's goodbyes. I would get up in the morning, I'd

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Speaker 3: play him a piece on the piano. I'd get into

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Speaker 3: my uniform and I would go out and I would fly,

200
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Speaker 3: and I just, you know, I just I don't know.

201
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Speaker 3: I do not know how I did that. I really

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Speaker 3: really do not know. Head down, bum up. And then

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Speaker 3: on the weekends I would go out and get trashed

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Speaker 3: and drunk with all my UNI mats, because that's what

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Speaker 3: you do when he's seventeen and eighteen in uniculture. And

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Speaker 3: they didn't know how to support me. They didn't know one.

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Speaker 3: They hadn't known anybody to pass maybe a grandparent. And

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Speaker 3: I just thought, I have to keep going. I have

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Speaker 3: to make my day proud. I just have to keep

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Speaker 3: going with this degree. I have to keep flying, keep

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Speaker 3: and I was passing. I was, you know, I did

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Speaker 3: defer some of the UNI component because I was a

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Speaker 3: bit overwhelmed and I just head down, bump up, and

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Speaker 3: just kept going. So it was very much to put

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Speaker 3: it all under the carpet, don't talk about it. My

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Speaker 3: friends are there for me when I had to cry,

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Speaker 3: and that was it. So then eight years later we

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Speaker 3: lost Bratt in that car accident, and just to bring

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Speaker 3: my grief story and what were the topic we're talking

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Speaker 3: on today full circle. I gave up flying when my

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Speaker 3: brother passed. That was a huge perspective moment for me

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Speaker 3: on life. Career is what I really wanted to do.

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Speaker 3: I looked on that conveyor belt of airline pilots. I

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Speaker 3: had met my husband by then, and I thought, you know,

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Speaker 3: I'm not too sure that's the lifestyle I want as

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Speaker 3: a mum and wife. So that took a lot to

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Speaker 3: walk away from. And I ended up in early learning

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Speaker 3: and bought a franchise after I had we got married,

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Speaker 3: we had our kids, and I fell in love with

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Speaker 3: early learning and neurological development and kids. I wanted to

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Speaker 3: learn about my kids and their development, So we bought

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Speaker 3: a Gimbiree franchise for me. It was going to be

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Speaker 3: an amazing, you know business for me, something that I love,

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Speaker 3: something I could take my kids with they started school,

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Speaker 3: we bought the franchise, and two weeks after we signed

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Speaker 3: that paper and bought that business, a small business, my

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Speaker 3: husband was diagnosed with the same cancer at the same

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Speaker 3: age as.

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Speaker 1: My dad, so tragically weird and like if it was like,

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Speaker 1: you know, if your dad was well, I mean, if

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Speaker 1: it was blood you go, oh, that kind of makes sense.

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Speaker 1: But it doesn't make sense, does it. Like there's no correlation.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's not like, oh, well, yeah, that makes

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Speaker 1: sense because they were blood relatives or whatever. But because

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Speaker 1: when you first said that, I went, oh, that kind

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Speaker 1: I mean, oh no, it doesn't make sense at all. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So so you find that out they're the same age,

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Speaker 1: and what was the prognosis ray your husband? Yes, what

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Speaker 1: was his prognosis at that time?

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Speaker 3: Well, of course immediately for me from my previous experience,

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Speaker 3: so I was you're going to be dead in six

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Speaker 3: weeks because that was my prior experience. Obviously, a lot

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Speaker 3: more twenty years on, a lot more treatments, a lot

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Speaker 3: more options available. We went down many roads, as you

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Speaker 3: do when you're caring with somebody with cancer, and every

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Speaker 3: information that's thrown at you. Now we did lots of things,

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Speaker 3: and we had sixty months of him at home with

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Speaker 3: the kids and he was amazing and handled you couldn't

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Speaker 3: even actually tell he was He did a different series

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Speaker 3: of chemo and things like that, He never lost his hair,

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Speaker 3: was still riding his bike taking kids to school. Apart

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Speaker 3: from you know, those downtimes in between and the week

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Speaker 3: to look at he was a very fit, healthy. Mountain

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Speaker 3: biking was his his outlet and he loved it. And yeah,

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Speaker 3: so right up until the very end. And then we

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Speaker 3: spent a month in Sydney with a surgeon down there

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Speaker 3: that was willing to operate on his liver because it's

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Speaker 3: spread to his liver. When we were told that that

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Speaker 3: wasn't going to happen because they found some more cancer

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Speaker 3: up in the back of his neck. When he was

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Speaker 3: told that, I think I saw the light kind of

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Speaker 3: disappeared then, because he basically told, you know, we'll just

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Speaker 3: do more treatment, prolonged quality of life, and that wasn't

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Speaker 3: for him. So we came home and he passed away

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Speaker 3: two weeks later.

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Speaker 2: MM.

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Speaker 3: The kids were four and six.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so many things. But when we chatted before

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Speaker 1: we pressed the go button today, you said something like

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Speaker 1: you had to listen to our first chat, which you liked.

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Speaker 1: I loved it too, and it was we got such

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Speaker 1: good feedback. And if you haven't heard that, everyone have listens.

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Speaker 1: Really it's really I was going to say, it's notice.

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Speaker 1: It is nice. It's like it's sad, it's trade, but

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Speaker 1: it's nice and it's for a lot of people going

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Speaker 1: to be very very relevant and very what's the word,

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Speaker 1: very inspiring and very revealing, because I feel like, you know,

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Speaker 1: we're not great at grief. I mean, you're the expert.

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Speaker 1: I'm not the expert. But my second mom who is

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Speaker 1: that's a weird thing. But my mum's best friend, who

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Speaker 1: basically was my second mom, you know, growing up. She

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Speaker 1: died a couple of days after Christmas. And you might

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Speaker 1: have heard me talk about this, but I sat with her,

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Speaker 1: and she had about forty eight hours to live, and

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Speaker 1: I sat in the hospital with her, just me and her,

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Speaker 1: and I can remember nearly everything we said. And it

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Speaker 1: was an hour and a half and it was profound

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Speaker 1: and like I felt selfish, but I think she knew

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Speaker 1: that I needed to be there to talk to her.

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Speaker 1: She probably didn't need I mean, she wanted to talk

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Speaker 1: to me, but you know, it was self indulgent, but

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Speaker 1: just spending that time with her and excuse me, saying

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Speaker 1: all the things I needed to say or I wanted

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Speaker 1: to say and vice versa was incredibly therapeutic. But I

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Speaker 1: still think, you know, coming out of that and we've

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Speaker 1: had even tiff. Have you thought about this? Sorry, Rach,

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Speaker 1: we'll get back on, but we're still talking in the

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Speaker 1: same space people that have been on this podcast, because

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Speaker 1: it's episode two thousand. In a few days, you know,

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Speaker 1: Johnny Raffo, we had the beautiful Johnny Ruffo passed away,

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Speaker 1: Danny Frawley, the amazing Danny Frawley, AFL player, AFL coach,

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Speaker 1: a guy called Simon Hammond who was great. He written

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Speaker 1: a couple of books. He was in marketing and branding.

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Speaker 1: Simon and I were friends, and of course my friend Nima,

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Speaker 1: who were very good friends. He passed away, and I

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Speaker 1: feel like there might be one more person. I'm just

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Speaker 1: doing this Kerwin Ray of course of Kerwin, and I think, wow,

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Speaker 1: it's like and that since we started this show, that's

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Speaker 1: five people who sat here just like us, three now

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Speaker 1: talking just like us three now, and they're gone, you know,

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Speaker 1: they're gone. And I guess that's the thing is that

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Speaker 1: there's no we've said this perform but there's no formula,

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Speaker 1: there's no three step plan. But back to you, Rate,

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Speaker 1: you said that you've kind of like in the space

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Speaker 1: of understanding grief and talking about grief and your awareness

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Speaker 1: around it and how to help others, Like that's really

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Speaker 1: developed and evolved in the last few years. Like what

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Speaker 1: do you know now? What are you sharing now that

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Speaker 1: you weren't a few years ago?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So you know what led me on that journey

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Speaker 3: was when I went looking for resources as a young widow.

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Speaker 3: There was a lot out there for over sixties, yes,

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Speaker 3: in community, online, all these things, and I couldn't find

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Speaker 3: anything that really spoke to me as a young widow.

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Speaker 3: But what I also found was all this grief came

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Speaker 3: bubbling up from my dad and my brother, and I realized,

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Speaker 3: I really haven't processed that, and I'm feeling all this again,

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Speaker 3: and what is this? What is what is this? What's

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Speaker 3: this grief all about? What's my future look like? So researching, reading,

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Speaker 3: trying to find stuff online, googling, and coming across all

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Speaker 3: these five stages. And that's something that I want to

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Speaker 3: touch on because we touched on in the first episode.

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Speaker 3: I've learned so much more since then, and you know,

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Speaker 3: different therapies that I'd had over the years that just

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Speaker 3: really didn't work for me because of that lack of

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Speaker 3: maybe empathy or lived experience on the other side of

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Speaker 3: the table and textbook stuff and really wasn't talking about

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Speaker 3: what I was actually feeling. So I started writing, started

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Speaker 3: journaling and went to your retreat with Melissa, and my

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Speaker 3: book was born and wrote that. Then after that, I thought,

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Speaker 3: you know, how else can I help people? And I

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Speaker 3: need to do more. So I studied a bit more

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Speaker 3: with the Grief Recovery Institute WA with amazing psychologists named

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Speaker 3: Amanda Ambros and she taught me about action steps and

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Speaker 3: the Grief Recovery method and this evidence based program that

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Speaker 3: actually gives people tools to process any kind of unresolved grief.

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Speaker 3: And I was like unresolved grief and also debunking that

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Speaker 3: myth around the five stages, so if I can enlighten

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Speaker 3: because I know I didn't in the first episode. Those

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Speaker 3: five stages of grief were written by Elizabeth Koobler Ross

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Speaker 3: in her book on Death and Dying in the sixties,

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Speaker 3: and what a lot of people don't know is that

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Speaker 3: those stages were written at The paper was written for

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Speaker 3: somebody with a terminal diagnosis who was faced with a

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Speaker 3: terminal diagnosis on death and dying, someone who knows that

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Speaker 3: they're going to pass away. And so she studied and

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Speaker 3: wrote about these common emotions that these people would move

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Speaker 3: through in her amazing work in Prospice and things like that,

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Speaker 3: so you can understand that denial, anger, acceptance if you

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Speaker 3: know you're going to pass. And what happened after that

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Speaker 3: is that these stages within misused, spread in different books

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Speaker 3: and therapies as just the stages of grief, not the

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Speaker 3: stages of someone who has been given a terminal diagnosis.

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Speaker 3: And yes we do experience some of those things, but

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Speaker 3: it's not a linear train. It's not something that you know,

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Speaker 3: we can experience as a griever. And we'll talk about

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Speaker 3: all different types of griefs as well that we you know,

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Speaker 3: go on. Because I can remember being told that and

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Speaker 3: I'm like, well, it says depression is coming up next.

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Speaker 3: I don't want to. I don't want to depression station.

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Speaker 3: You know, I'm a positive person. I have had gratitude

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Speaker 3: with the perspective growing up with my brother Bred and

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Speaker 3: having experienced those things and my resilience from just from flying,

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Speaker 3: that teaches you so much as al you have to

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Speaker 3: learn so much resilience. And I didn't want that to

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Speaker 3: be told that. I'm like, no, I'm not going through

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Speaker 3: these stages. Yes I feel angry sometimes, Yes I feel

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Speaker 3: this sometimes, but that could all be in one day.

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Speaker 3: And so when I learned this, it was just like, Wow,

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Speaker 3: what a light bulb. And how often people are told that,

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Speaker 3: and how often then it can cause this mistreatment or

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Speaker 3: also misunderstanding, And then they can withdraw, they can isolate

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Speaker 3: because they're reading these things around grief and what their

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Speaker 3: people are putting on them expected to be experiencing.

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Speaker 1: Sure, yeah, I think it's really it's precarious when you're

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Speaker 1: talking about the mind and the way that the mind

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Speaker 1: and emotions and more broadly humans respond to all kinds

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Speaker 1: of good and bad stuff in their life. Right, and

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Speaker 1: we go, oh, you know, grief, this is how grief works. Nah,

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Speaker 1: it's just like saying. It's just saying, oh, Rachel's got

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Speaker 1: this condition, Craig's got the same condition. Therefore they both

402
00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:07,520
Speaker 1: need the same pill or the same potion, and they

403
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Speaker 1: need the same dose and they need it at the

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Speaker 1: same time every day, and well, we know that's done

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Speaker 1: because we know that that doesn't work. But also, you know,

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Speaker 1: with medicine for the mind for want of a better term,

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Speaker 1: or healing for the mind, or healing for the soul

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Speaker 1: or emotions or all three, or the body, it's like, well,

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Speaker 1: even what you said there where you explained that the

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Speaker 1: five stages of grief in inverted commas were she was

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Speaker 1: actually talking about the person who was sick, not the

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Speaker 1: people around the person who was sick or dying. Well,

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Speaker 1: that's an insight, that's a revelation there. But I think

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Speaker 1: there's I think therapists and psychologists and psychiatrists and doctors

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Speaker 1: in general, and I put not that I'm in that space,

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Speaker 1: but even me who talks about this all the time,

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Speaker 1: we need to be really careful what we say, because

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Speaker 1: when you plan to seed in somebody's mind and they

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Speaker 1: respect you and listen to you and look up to you,

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Speaker 1: and you go, all right, well you know, Rachel, this

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Speaker 1: is what's coming. Well how about we just let Rachel

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Speaker 1: be Rachel and see what evolves. And as she goes

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Speaker 1: through the different things support her, love or encourage her

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Speaker 1: rather than saying, well, you're at step two and step

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Speaker 1: three is coming. I feel like that is the opposite

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Speaker 1: of helpful and the opposite of aware. I feel like

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Speaker 1: that could actually do more damage than good. And you

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Speaker 1: think about plus ebos and no cebos, you know, where

429
00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:34,639
Speaker 1: we tell someone oh, you're actually this is going to

430
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:36,080
Speaker 1: make your lean, or this is going to make you

431
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:38,600
Speaker 1: less nauseous, or this is going to and then people

432
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:42,239
Speaker 1: take it and they believe it and it happens, you know.

433
00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:44,679
Speaker 1: And then on the opposite of that, people tell you

434
00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:49,239
Speaker 1: something negative and it isn't going to happen and it

435
00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:53,440
Speaker 1: isn't real, but it's something you create this experience yourself. Yeah,

436
00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:56,120
Speaker 1: so it's it's precarious.

437
00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:59,879
Speaker 3: I love having these conversations. Lifting the lead on this

438
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:03,240
Speaker 3: with you, Craig is because of your teachings around fitness

439
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:05,720
Speaker 3: and health. And you will say that you will never

440
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:11,119
Speaker 3: give the same exercise, diet, nutrition plan to people standing

441
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:13,280
Speaker 3: side by side who could be physically look, you know,

442
00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:17,399
Speaker 3: exactly the same or whatever, but want different, have different goals,

443
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:20,560
Speaker 3: have different body composition, makeup and everything and what you eat,

444
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:22,800
Speaker 3: and a day you will never go and say you

445
00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:24,200
Speaker 3: need to eat what I eat in a day, and

446
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:29,639
Speaker 3: you'll get the same results and grief all relationships. You know.

447
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:33,040
Speaker 3: In my work, I will empowering women to move beyond

448
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 3: grief and loss. I will never tell a widow I

449
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:39,320
Speaker 3: know how you feel, because even though we've experienced the

450
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:46,439
Speaker 3: same eventship with my husband completely different to her relationship

451
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:48,719
Speaker 3: with her husband, her relationship with her in laws, her

452
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:53,639
Speaker 3: relationship with his brother, her relationship with their children. Whether

453
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:57,920
Speaker 3: they're being together or somebody who's widowed and they're being divorced,

454
00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:02,280
Speaker 3: it's another whole grief scenario. He's still the father to

455
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:05,960
Speaker 3: their children, but she's grieving their loss. So I will

456
00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:09,440
Speaker 3: never tell another wind I know how you feel, because

457
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:11,920
Speaker 3: at best I know how I felt when the same

458
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 3: event happened to me.

459
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:17,280
Speaker 1: It's such a good differentiation, so clever, so clever, and

460
00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:20,400
Speaker 1: nobody I've never heard anybody say that, like that differentiation

461
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:23,120
Speaker 1: between like it feels like the right thing to say

462
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:26,840
Speaker 1: if you've been in a similar or same situation and

463
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:28,680
Speaker 1: if you and I look, I know how you feel

464
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:30,680
Speaker 1: because dah da da da, I'm like, yeah, I guess

465
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:33,199
Speaker 1: you do, and then you're like, you actually don't know,

466
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 1: you know how that's so clever recovery.

467
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:40,800
Speaker 3: My set of recovery components and small action tips that

468
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:43,280
Speaker 3: I need to take will be different to somebody else

469
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:46,760
Speaker 3: because of their relationship graft, because of what they've been through.

470
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:49,600
Speaker 3: And just to put it really in a simple example,

471
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:53,880
Speaker 3: someone who loses somebody and the last conversation they had

472
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 3: with them was an argument, you can imagine that their

473
00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:00,919
Speaker 3: recovery and their set of tools that they need are

474
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:03,480
Speaker 3: going to be completely different to someone like you who

475
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:06,280
Speaker 3: sat bedside and had an amazing conversation with somebody that

476
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:10,560
Speaker 3: you remember and was really profound. A child who loses

477
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:14,439
Speaker 3: a pet, if they were the one that left the

478
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:18,399
Speaker 3: gate open and that pet got out and was killed

479
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:21,320
Speaker 3: in that in a car accident, do you think that

480
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:24,359
Speaker 3: child is going to grieve differently to the sibling who

481
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:28,040
Speaker 3: didn't do that, because that child is going to have

482
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:33,320
Speaker 3: a whole set of other unresolved grief. And that's the

483
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:36,480
Speaker 3: power in you know, the work that I do with

484
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:41,919
Speaker 3: helping people is understanding where resolved grief lies. And for

485
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:46,919
Speaker 3: the most part, when fond memories turn painful, there's usually

486
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:52,480
Speaker 3: some kind of unresolved grief there. And unresolved grief is

487
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 3: almost always about things that we wish we could have

488
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 3: said or done differently, or things we wish somebody else

489
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:02,639
Speaker 3: could have it or done differently. And so you know,

490
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:06,159
Speaker 3: with the strange relationships and abuse and all that, the

491
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:11,280
Speaker 3: grief which we can touch on intangible losses, loss, loss

492
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:15,760
Speaker 3: of safety, loss of faith, loss of control, they're all

493
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:19,320
Speaker 3: grief experiences. But yeah, just going back to that uniqueness

494
00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:21,560
Speaker 3: and that no two people are saying it's therefore we

495
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:24,879
Speaker 3: cannot put grief in a box and give somebody a

496
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:28,000
Speaker 3: set of stages and say this is this is grief,

497
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 3: and this is what and if you don't you know,

498
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 3: if you don't move through these stages and both six months,

499
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:36,800
Speaker 3: one year, you're not feeling better. You haven't you moved on.

500
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:38,800
Speaker 3: It's been two years, it's been three years, it's been

501
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:41,520
Speaker 3: ten years, it's been twenty years. Whatever I'm frame is

502
00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:45,200
Speaker 3: for that person, if they you know, if they're feeling

503
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:47,680
Speaker 3: that way, then then that's whether isolation comes in, that

504
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 3: withdrawal or maybe lead down to some you know, elements

505
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:55,240
Speaker 3: of depression because they think something's wrong with them.

506
00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:58,640
Speaker 1: It's so interesting, like you're talking about context, like the

507
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:00,960
Speaker 1: kid who left the gate open, versus the kid who

508
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:03,400
Speaker 1: didn't leave the gate open, but they both both lost

509
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:07,440
Speaker 1: their dog, and one is going to feel obviously horrendous

510
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 1: and grieved differently. But then then on top of that,

511
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:15,720
Speaker 1: I think then there's personality, like the way people are wired,

512
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:18,120
Speaker 1: you know, for want of better for one of a

513
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 1: more scientifically accurate term, like some people will go through

514
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:27,520
Speaker 1: the exact same or what appears to be a very

515
00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:32,040
Speaker 1: similar experience, putting aside all of the other variables and

516
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 1: one and they'll both react completely differently. I wonder when

517
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:42,120
Speaker 1: you think about grief as an outcome of an event,

518
00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:46,280
Speaker 1: someone passing away or somebody having you know, somebody finding

519
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:50,120
Speaker 1: out they're dying, or finding out they've just lost all

520
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:53,080
Speaker 1: their dough or as Tiff had to a couple of

521
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:58,760
Speaker 1: years ago, lose precious coaching, which how was coached like

522
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:02,880
Speaker 1: only four or five, six, six, And that totally out

523
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:05,920
Speaker 1: of the blue, like totally healthy. Fine, and we won't

524
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:09,960
Speaker 1: replay that, but you know, just and I remember talking

525
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 1: to her just after it happened, and I'm like, I'm

526
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:16,840
Speaker 1: pretty good at this shit. I'm like, I don't even

527
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 1: know what to say. I mean, you know, you say

528
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:22,520
Speaker 1: what you're going to say, but nothing can undo it,

529
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 1: of course, and nothing can fix it, you know. I

530
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:31,720
Speaker 1: just think that, like, there are so many variables around

531
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 1: the grief, around the way people grieve and for how

532
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:39,600
Speaker 1: long and what that looks like from the outside that

533
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:41,480
Speaker 1: you know. I think I told you a friend of

534
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:44,400
Speaker 1: mine was grieving. I think I said this last time

535
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:47,920
Speaker 1: we were here. Maybe not, but anyway, his dad passed

536
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:52,040
Speaker 1: away and he was the oldest and the dude, like

537
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:56,840
Speaker 1: the oldest son, like five kids, and he was very

538
00:30:56,920 --> 00:31:02,040
Speaker 1: stoic and like six months later and he was devastated,

539
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 1: but just fucking coped, you know, just fucking batting down

540
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:10,200
Speaker 1: the hatches and suck it up. And Andy, six months later,

541
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:12,600
Speaker 1: still hadn't cried. And some of his family are like,

542
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 1: what the fuck is wrong with you? What is wrong

543
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:18,520
Speaker 1: with you? Why are you not grieving properly? You know,

544
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:21,880
Speaker 1: why you're not grieving like us? And he spoke to

545
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 1: me about that, and yeah, I was just I'm like, dude,

546
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 1: it's like, you're going to grieve how you're going to grieve.

547
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:29,880
Speaker 1: You loved your dad, you miss your dad, You're sad

548
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:33,480
Speaker 1: as fuck, but you just you know, you can't get

549
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:36,800
Speaker 1: it wrong like this is not a test, you know,

550
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:40,160
Speaker 1: so I guess there's So how do you then know

551
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:45,120
Speaker 1: as a counselor or coach or advisor or you know whatever,

552
00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 1: you just when you're connecting, how do you know where

553
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 1: to go in the conversation, where to go with advice

554
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:51,600
Speaker 1: or support?

555
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:54,760
Speaker 3: Firstly, I think that point you brought up in the

556
00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:59,719
Speaker 3: beginning about different personalities, and then couple that with what

557
00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:02,960
Speaker 3: was their relationship with the griefs and with the situation

558
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:08,040
Speaker 3: the person they lost, what was their relationship like, and

559
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 3: then look at other relationships around them, what was modeled

560
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:13,920
Speaker 3: to them? You know, that personality thing comes from you know,

561
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:18,040
Speaker 3: our upbringing as well and our environment. Watch which generation

562
00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:21,320
Speaker 3: was it of pushing stuff under the carpet, showing no emotions,

563
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:25,160
Speaker 3: never talking and having these conversations if that was modeled

564
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:28,240
Speaker 3: to us as well too. And I'll bust some myths

565
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 3: around here as well with grief and what we're taught

566
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:36,880
Speaker 3: and what we're modeled the be strong, grieve alone, you know,

567
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:40,120
Speaker 3: don't don't be sad, don't be sad as a kid,

568
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:42,240
Speaker 3: don't be sad. Come and have a cookie, you know,

569
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:44,920
Speaker 3: replace the lost or something that might feel make you

570
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 3: feel good. In an instant, you hurt yourself or your bullied,

571
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:50,160
Speaker 3: or you know, don't feel sad, come and have some

572
00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 3: ice cream. Let's just just push that down with a

573
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:56,040
Speaker 3: bit of a sweet treat and we won't talk about

574
00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:59,800
Speaker 3: the cause or why are you're feeling that way. Keep

575
00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:03,320
Speaker 3: is another one, but you know, busting that myth, you've

576
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:04,120
Speaker 3: got to just keep.

577
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:07,920
Speaker 1: Busy to find yourself a purpose. Do you think though

578
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 1: that Sorry to interrupt, I'm just curious about this, and

579
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:13,320
Speaker 1: I think you'll have something to say on it. Like

580
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:16,000
Speaker 1: in a lot of cases or some cases, we've got

581
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 1: broken people trying to support other broken people and they

582
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:24,400
Speaker 1: can't even fucking get their own stuff together, which is

583
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:29,239
Speaker 1: completely understandable, you know, but like I imagine for you

584
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:33,840
Speaker 1: when Ray passed away, you're trying, you're trying to just survive.

585
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:37,200
Speaker 1: And then, by the way, also you're a mum. Also

586
00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:40,080
Speaker 1: you've got a business or whatever. You know. Also you've

587
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 1: got to feed them, clothe them, and you can't walk

588
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:46,120
Speaker 1: around crying twenty four to seven, Like what about that?

589
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:49,880
Speaker 1: Broken people trying to support other broken people. That's got

590
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:51,400
Speaker 1: to be almost impossible.

591
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:55,000
Speaker 3: It is, And it comes back to the I think

592
00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:59,120
Speaker 3: projecting how would I feel in this situation. So I'm

593
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 3: going to give you that because that's how I would feel.

594
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:06,920
Speaker 3: So and this is what I do when I'm having

595
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:08,600
Speaker 3: a hard time, is I just keep busy. You got

596
00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:11,240
Speaker 3: to keep the kids busy. Or this is me saying

597
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:15,480
Speaker 3: what other people are saying, and or replace the loss

598
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:19,640
Speaker 3: is another one. So I got there. At least you're young,

599
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:24,960
Speaker 3: you can remarry. And women in mind, it's around with

600
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:28,480
Speaker 3: pregnancy loss and child losses, you know, such a taboo topic,

601
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 3: and those women feel so isolated in society because it's

602
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:33,920
Speaker 3: not talked about. Who wants to see a photo of

603
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:37,839
Speaker 3: a ultrasound on a mantlepiece for their memory, you know,

604
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:41,160
Speaker 3: and have these conversations, and so they get told that

605
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:44,480
Speaker 3: you know, at least you can try again, at least

606
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:46,040
Speaker 3: you know you can feel pregnant, at least you can

607
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:49,440
Speaker 3: have another child. Of all that, I educate people on

608
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:51,680
Speaker 3: that one in particular. If there's anything that can come

609
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:54,399
Speaker 3: away from today and people not knowing what to say,

610
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:57,040
Speaker 3: is just never ever start something with at least.

611
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:00,720
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, lived a good.

612
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:04,120
Speaker 3: Life for elderly grandparents. At least you got to say goodbye.

613
00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:07,200
Speaker 3: At least it was under and quick. At least it

614
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:10,520
Speaker 3: wasn't painful. All these at least none of it is helpful.

615
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:13,719
Speaker 3: So back to the myths and what we're taught, what

616
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 3: we're modeled as growing up. We could be taught that

617
00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:20,960
Speaker 3: modeled that emotional eating, you know, when something's bad, and

618
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 3: that's portrayed all over our media and things and movies

619
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:28,759
Speaker 3: and what happens when there's a breakup on Netflix. They

620
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:30,839
Speaker 3: go and grab a tub of ice cream, and that's

621
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:32,239
Speaker 3: how we deal with it. Or we go and get

622
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:34,919
Speaker 3: drunk alcohol or substance abuse, or we go shopping. It's

623
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:40,319
Speaker 3: called you know, it's called retail therapy. There's all these replacements,

624
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:45,120
Speaker 3: these short term energy relieving behaviors that we're modeled to.

625
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:48,280
Speaker 3: This is what happens when you feel bad, So we've

626
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:50,600
Speaker 3: got to push it down. We can't be sad. We

627
00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:53,640
Speaker 3: definitely can't be sad in public. And then because we

628
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:57,760
Speaker 3: have this kettle of emotions and grief and things bubbling

629
00:35:57,840 --> 00:35:59,399
Speaker 3: up inside of us, we don't know what to deal

630
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:02,560
Speaker 3: with it. We substitute it with something else, and it's

631
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:05,240
Speaker 3: just so common. We all do it when we're feeling

632
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:09,560
Speaker 3: bad or feeling sad, or feeling guilty or feeling whatever

633
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:12,319
Speaker 3: it is. And so the key here is with me

634
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:15,319
Speaker 3: back to your question of how do you recognize where

635
00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:18,239
Speaker 3: there's unresolved grief different personalities or where to start or

636
00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:20,600
Speaker 3: how to help a grieving person is to see how

637
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:25,160
Speaker 3: they're actually emotionally regulating. Are they are they? Are they

638
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:28,560
Speaker 3: allowing their emotions to flow. It's okay to be sad.

639
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 3: You do not have to be strong. You have to

640
00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:35,280
Speaker 3: be human, And you're right for me as a young widow,

641
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:37,960
Speaker 3: you know, a share and a sandwich was a good day,

642
00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:41,279
Speaker 3: and I just knew I had no choice. I had

643
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:44,200
Speaker 3: to get up the books together my children and I

644
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:47,319
Speaker 3: write about my book. They saved my life dozens of

645
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:52,160
Speaker 3: times over literally under the cover of darkness, on my

646
00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:55,799
Speaker 3: knees beside their bed, just I don't want I'm out

647
00:36:55,880 --> 00:37:01,080
Speaker 3: like I was in survival mode and not surviving, not thriving.

648
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:03,279
Speaker 3: And it was one of those nights that I wrote

649
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:06,839
Speaker 3: rak line in the sand here. I can't continue this way.

650
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:09,760
Speaker 3: I had my b strong mask on for three years

651
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:13,319
Speaker 3: and I sold my business and I knew that that was,

652
00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:17,040
Speaker 3: you know, the first step to me regaining myself and

653
00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:19,360
Speaker 3: my identity back. And what that looked like for me,

654
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:24,239
Speaker 3: and because I was jumping in front of all these

655
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:28,040
Speaker 3: parents and kids, running back to back classes, singing on

656
00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:32,000
Speaker 3: the top of my lungs the Hello song, and then

657
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:34,719
Speaker 3: running out of the back at lunchtime and you know,

658
00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:37,200
Speaker 3: bailing eyes out, putting it all back together, coming back

659
00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:40,880
Speaker 3: in being that happy. Be strong. You do not have

660
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:46,000
Speaker 3: to be strong. And as women especially were taught that

661
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:48,359
Speaker 3: you just got to be strong for your kids. You've

662
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:50,920
Speaker 3: got to be this that, keep busy, do all these things.

663
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:54,839
Speaker 3: It's not helpful. And what happens if we do all

664
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:59,280
Speaker 3: this when as the years pass and we haven't taken

665
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:03,120
Speaker 3: any others of action, small action steps towards grief recovery

666
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:08,640
Speaker 3: and processing those emotions, looking at where there's forgiveness needed

667
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:12,680
Speaker 3: or apologies in those relationship graphs around what was my relationship? Like,

668
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:16,080
Speaker 3: is there guilt there the kid with the gate or

669
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:19,000
Speaker 3: the argument that you had with somebody who dies suddenly,

670
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:21,160
Speaker 3: and you need to write that down, You need to

671
00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:26,319
Speaker 3: process that because you're in control of that forgiveness. It's

672
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:30,319
Speaker 3: something you need to take action for yourself. And the

673
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:32,439
Speaker 3: reason for that is because what do we all want

674
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:35,000
Speaker 3: in life? We want more joy? We want more happiness,

675
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:38,160
Speaker 3: We want to invite joy into our life. We want

676
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:41,839
Speaker 3: to experience wholehearted living. And if we have so much

677
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:44,880
Speaker 3: with this unresolved grief, carrying it around in our bodies

678
00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:49,080
Speaker 3: physically as well as emotionally, then we're blocking that capacity

679
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:52,160
Speaker 3: for more joy. And then that was me for many years,

680
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:55,480
Speaker 3: with that victim mentality and attaching myself to widow pen

681
00:38:56,239 --> 00:38:59,120
Speaker 3: and living that life of I can't see it. I

682
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:01,839
Speaker 3: can't you know, how am I going to experience joy again?

683
00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:03,759
Speaker 3: I did not know what that would look like?

684
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:09,040
Speaker 1: How do you move beyond that? Almost like my identity

685
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:12,960
Speaker 1: is I'm Rachel, I'm a widow. Do you know what

686
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:15,239
Speaker 1: I mean? It's almost like for some powder I mean

687
00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:18,400
Speaker 1: for you personally, but or I'm a widower or my

688
00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:22,480
Speaker 1: you know, and I understand that. I'm just saying that.

689
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:26,319
Speaker 1: That's almost like for some people that becomes their identity.

690
00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:31,920
Speaker 3: Is absolutely And tell me about that Academy award behavior,

691
00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:37,520
Speaker 3: you know, it was that was my way of stopping

692
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:40,080
Speaker 3: myself and reaching my full potential because I had that

693
00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:43,600
Speaker 3: to fall back on. It was this awakening of I

694
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:46,080
Speaker 3: would not meet somebody or in a situation or a

695
00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:48,680
Speaker 3: business they'd ask about this, what is oh, well, you know,

696
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:51,440
Speaker 3: and I was widowed young and I would start with that.

697
00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:54,200
Speaker 3: I would that that was my way of like, oh,

698
00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:58,160
Speaker 3: by the way, so if I if I short for myself,

699
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:01,560
Speaker 3: my you know, and what you teach, and if I

700
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:04,640
Speaker 3: am not reaching my full potential and giving myself the

701
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:09,200
Speaker 3: best opportunity, Yeah, was this kind of crutch for me

702
00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:12,439
Speaker 3: and so and you know when you meet people who

703
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:15,200
Speaker 3: are in so much pain, and I'm in groups and

704
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:18,360
Speaker 3: those groups have widow groups, and that's where I started

705
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:21,400
Speaker 3: was looking and finding and some of them were just

706
00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:25,360
Speaker 3: I can't stay here because I can't see any progression.

707
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:28,840
Speaker 3: I can't see any I see a safe spaced event,

708
00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:31,600
Speaker 3: and that's needed. And I'm not taking away from these

709
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:35,800
Speaker 3: amazing you know, Facebook groups and things I'm talking about.

710
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:40,759
Speaker 1: Is there a point where, like there's been a few

711
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:46,200
Speaker 1: revelations recently or are a few schools have thought recently

712
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:51,200
Speaker 1: in the space of therapy, right, and you know, turning

713
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:56,080
Speaker 1: up to Whoever's every Tuesday at three o'clock for therapy

714
00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:59,400
Speaker 1: for two years or two months or two weeks or whatever.

715
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:03,719
Speaker 1: For some ping well is really effective and productive. But

716
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:07,400
Speaker 1: we know that it isn't for everybody. In fact, we

717
00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:12,080
Speaker 1: know that for some people, talk therapy is not it's

718
00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:16,200
Speaker 1: not actually a positive. It's like they just re open

719
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:18,839
Speaker 1: the wound every Tuesday at two thirty and then they

720
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:21,359
Speaker 1: feel shitit for four days, then they start to feel good.

721
00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:24,800
Speaker 1: Then they come back and they reopen the wound next Tuesday.

722
00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:27,120
Speaker 1: I'm not saying it's good or bad. I'm saying that's

723
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:28,960
Speaker 1: how some people respond to it. One of my mates

724
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:34,560
Speaker 1: did it for six months and swears that it's just

725
00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:37,000
Speaker 1: made him worse right now. I don't think that's the

726
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:40,080
Speaker 1: fault of the therapist. I think that's just his personal interaction.

727
00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:49,200
Speaker 1: Do you feel like you need to be around be

728
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:52,359
Speaker 1: around people who drag you up? Not that that's their

729
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:55,080
Speaker 1: job to elevate you, but you know, there's a point

730
00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:59,520
Speaker 1: where talking about your stuff becomes destructive not productive. Whether

731
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:01,560
Speaker 1: or not that scree for whether or not that's the

732
00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:04,600
Speaker 1: business that you lost, or whether or not that's your body,

733
00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:07,000
Speaker 1: or like, how often are you going to talk about

734
00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:09,640
Speaker 1: you know, your body, Brian, just fucking get in the

735
00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:12,560
Speaker 1: gym and train, Like we've had a million conversations about

736
00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:15,400
Speaker 1: your food in your like literally some of my friends go.

737
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:18,000
Speaker 1: Don't ask me any more things about your body, you diet,

738
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:20,800
Speaker 1: your health, your fitness, you're training, because you don't do anything.

739
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:24,359
Speaker 1: I love you, but just start, you know, like, when

740
00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:26,800
Speaker 1: does that talking become redundant?

741
00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:30,000
Speaker 3: Yeah? And that was my very next step when I

742
00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:32,560
Speaker 3: realized that I couldn't stay in these spaces that were

743
00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:37,879
Speaker 3: just yeah, for months and months and months, I miss him.

744
00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:40,319
Speaker 3: I don't want to leave it. So he's never coming back.

745
00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:42,319
Speaker 3: And you know, and I know that, you know, you

746
00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:44,600
Speaker 3: don't have to tell it. I understand that, and I

747
00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:48,240
Speaker 3: know that. But what next? And I found I stumbled

748
00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:50,560
Speaker 3: across a lady in the States, one fit with her

749
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:53,400
Speaker 3: name was Michelle. Oh god, she's got a double barrel

750
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:57,120
Speaker 3: name that's hard to pronounce. And I found her and

751
00:42:57,160 --> 00:42:59,400
Speaker 3: she was just five years down the road from me,

752
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:02,319
Speaker 3: and she was a positive person, but she was also

753
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:04,960
Speaker 3: very raw and talking about blended family and this and

754
00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:08,200
Speaker 3: the struggles were real and all of this, but she

755
00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:12,880
Speaker 3: had turned her pain into purpose and was encouraging and

756
00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:16,560
Speaker 3: had this amazing community, and I just it was just like,

757
00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:20,080
Speaker 3: oh wow. And she was a similar age and I

758
00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:22,399
Speaker 3: could just see, you know, when you see someone that's

759
00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:25,239
Speaker 3: just that little bit further down the road from you

760
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:28,360
Speaker 3: on the same path, and that gives you hope. And

761
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:30,680
Speaker 3: that's all I needed to switch that light was just

762
00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:34,399
Speaker 3: hope that okay, she's doing okay. She looks like she's

763
00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:37,600
Speaker 3: doing okay, her kids look like they're doing okay. And

764
00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:39,759
Speaker 3: it was just that five years further down that I

765
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:42,160
Speaker 3: and all of a sudden, I thought, Okay, you know

766
00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:45,680
Speaker 3: that's positive. That's something I can hold on to. I

767
00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:48,200
Speaker 3: can check into that space and it can give me

768
00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:50,040
Speaker 3: a bit of hope, and she can give me some ideas.

769
00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:51,760
Speaker 3: And she'd written a book, so I ordered her book.

770
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:57,120
Speaker 3: And so surrounding yourself with people that drag you up, obviously, yes,

771
00:43:57,320 --> 00:44:01,720
Speaker 3: that's a positive for everyone. Similar to when you touched

772
00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:05,200
Speaker 3: on about having that same conversation with people you have

773
00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:09,279
Speaker 3: to want to. I call it the emotional jail. You know,

774
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:12,080
Speaker 3: we can hold ourselves. I know I've been there in

775
00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:14,200
Speaker 3: fitness as well, where they give you all the tools,

776
00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:16,680
Speaker 3: they give you all the things. It's the programs, they're

777
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:19,120
Speaker 3: just do it. Here's the nutrition. But what I've found

778
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:23,400
Speaker 3: a lot too with pts is they don't address the emotional.

779
00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:26,919
Speaker 3: They don't address that have that lived experience. They don't

780
00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:30,279
Speaker 3: address why you're falling off the wagon every weekend, like

781
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:32,640
Speaker 3: everybody says, you know, and they're like, well, I've given

782
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:35,520
Speaker 3: you this, it's easy, just do it. Just given it

783
00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:38,319
Speaker 3: to you one hundred times. But they never ever have

784
00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:43,319
Speaker 3: the skills to address the emotional reason why, which is

785
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:47,400
Speaker 3: often unresolved grief and where they're not feeling that and

786
00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:50,120
Speaker 3: they're storing it. They're feeling safe. They could be an

787
00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:53,680
Speaker 3: abusive relationship, that could be you know, have just lost

788
00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:57,680
Speaker 3: all these things. They are an emotional eating or not

789
00:44:57,800 --> 00:45:00,160
Speaker 3: even doing that. They're doing all the nutrition things, but

790
00:45:01,239 --> 00:45:06,080
Speaker 3: their nervous system is so wired for protection literally will

791
00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:08,960
Speaker 3: not release from their body and then well in menopause,

792
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:10,839
Speaker 3: which is, you know, something else I've had to learn

793
00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:13,680
Speaker 3: all about in the last you know, a couple of years.

794
00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:17,600
Speaker 3: I turned fifty last year, and so stored grief in

795
00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:22,319
Speaker 3: the body is a physical thing. Grief attacks. I've had

796
00:45:22,520 --> 00:45:25,840
Speaker 3: several where I've ended up in hospital with severe pain

797
00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:29,359
Speaker 3: in my side. I thought I had appendicitis. Three months

798
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:32,400
Speaker 3: after they passed and I ended up in hospital and

799
00:45:33,239 --> 00:45:38,160
Speaker 3: I'd had some I can't remember the medical term. Literally

800
00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:43,120
Speaker 3: my stomach was in knots like nerve things, omnial infarcation

801
00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:45,920
Speaker 3: or something. It's the apron of your tummy and it

802
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:48,879
Speaker 3: presented as a pendicitis and in the corner of that

803
00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:53,520
Speaker 3: muscle group there was my stomach was literally not physically

804
00:45:54,520 --> 00:45:57,759
Speaker 3: and there was no treatment other than it wasn't an

805
00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:00,680
Speaker 3: infection or anything. It was just to let it itself

806
00:46:00,719 --> 00:46:03,840
Speaker 3: and some I don't know, pain relief. I was in

807
00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:05,880
Speaker 3: there for a couple of days, so you know that

808
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:08,319
Speaker 3: was a grief attack and my body was just like

809
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:13,799
Speaker 3: three months in. This is impossible. And so unless we

810
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:17,840
Speaker 3: address all these emotional issues around everything in life, in

811
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:21,160
Speaker 3: our why we're stuck in business, why we're stuck in health,

812
00:46:21,239 --> 00:46:27,560
Speaker 3: why we can't lose the weight, it's often an emotional response, right,

813
00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:28,239
Speaker 3: or something that.

814
00:46:28,239 --> 00:46:33,160
Speaker 1: Needs I feel like in that space of you know,

815
00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:34,759
Speaker 1: whether or not it's with your body, or whether or

816
00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:36,440
Speaker 1: not it's with your bank account, or whether or not

817
00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:40,759
Speaker 1: it's with your business or your career, there's yeah relationships,

818
00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:45,200
Speaker 1: there's always going to be a psychological and emotional component.

819
00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:48,680
Speaker 1: And like I've been shouting from the rooftop since I

820
00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:51,680
Speaker 1: wrote my first book, which is all about the psychology

821
00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:54,239
Speaker 1: and the emotion of getting in shape. Even though I'm

822
00:46:54,239 --> 00:46:57,040
Speaker 1: an excise scientist, I go, hey, I can tell you

823
00:46:57,080 --> 00:46:58,960
Speaker 1: how to lift and how to run, and how to stretch,

824
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:02,560
Speaker 1: and how to eat and how to adapt your muscles

825
00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:06,520
Speaker 1: to progressive overload night and talk about biomechanics, anatomy and physiology,

826
00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:09,920
Speaker 1: and I know all that shit, right, But what we

827
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:12,080
Speaker 1: really need to figure out is why you keep eating

828
00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:15,080
Speaker 1: shit food why. What we really need to figure out

829
00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:17,480
Speaker 1: is how come you keep joining gyms and not following through.

830
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:21,160
Speaker 1: We need to think about your relationship with your body.

831
00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:23,760
Speaker 1: We need to think about your relationship between your body

832
00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:26,120
Speaker 1: and your mind and your emotions and your habits and

833
00:47:26,120 --> 00:47:28,840
Speaker 1: behaviors over time. We need to figure out why you

834
00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:31,120
Speaker 1: eat food that you don't need and you know you

835
00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:34,680
Speaker 1: don't need it, while simultaneously wanting to be leaner or

836
00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:38,560
Speaker 1: healthy or fitter like it's trying to understand all the

837
00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:42,799
Speaker 1: psychology and emotion that underlies the behaviors that fuck us

838
00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:43,440
Speaker 1: up and.

839
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:45,400
Speaker 3: All that.

840
00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:48,360
Speaker 1: But pursuant to your your comments about you know, go

841
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:50,520
Speaker 1: on and trainers go, here's your program, here's the gym,

842
00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:54,320
Speaker 1: here's the resources. But they don't address the other stuff.

843
00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:58,600
Speaker 1: They don't know how. They don't know how they know

844
00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:00,800
Speaker 1: how muscles work. Look some of them do, but also

845
00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:03,799
Speaker 1: it's not really their job in inverted commas. But I

846
00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:07,600
Speaker 1: think this is a huge elephant in the fitness room

847
00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:10,560
Speaker 1: and the health room, as we kind of know, Oh, yeah,

848
00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:14,080
Speaker 1: you've got to manage your mind. But no, I actually

849
00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:17,359
Speaker 1: think your mind and all the byproducts of your mind,

850
00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:20,279
Speaker 1: which is actions and behaviors and rules and habits and

851
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:23,799
Speaker 1: rituals and good shit and bad shit, like, all of

852
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:26,880
Speaker 1: those behaviors are byproducts of your thinking and your choices.

853
00:48:27,560 --> 00:48:31,719
Speaker 1: And the consequence is, oh, now I'm out of shape,

854
00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:34,759
Speaker 1: Oh now I've got disease on now I'm living in

855
00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:37,960
Speaker 1: a body that doesn't work. Well, they're the consequences, right,

856
00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:42,919
Speaker 1: They're the symptoms of the underlying shit. We don't deal

857
00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:47,160
Speaker 1: with the underlying shit. We deal with the obvious consequences

858
00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:49,560
Speaker 1: rather than going, oh, you need to eat more or

859
00:48:49,600 --> 00:48:53,799
Speaker 1: eat less or run more. Well, maybe, but maybe we

860
00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:55,560
Speaker 1: need to figure out why the fuck you keep self

861
00:48:55,600 --> 00:48:59,200
Speaker 1: sabotaging and killing yourself. Let's figure that out. So I

862
00:48:59,239 --> 00:49:01,600
Speaker 1: think that's that intersection of all of that.

863
00:49:02,120 --> 00:49:05,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, and back to grief and Amanda Lambros. You know

864
00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:09,080
Speaker 3: why she brought Grief Recovery Method program from the States.

865
00:49:09,080 --> 00:49:11,000
Speaker 3: It's one of the only evidence based programs in the

866
00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:15,480
Speaker 3: world around grief and giving action tools and things rather

867
00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:21,560
Speaker 3: this therapy it's not counseling. Was because in her practice

868
00:49:22,200 --> 00:49:24,400
Speaker 3: she found, for the most part of people coming in,

869
00:49:24,440 --> 00:49:27,200
Speaker 3: no matter what they were talking about the problems in

870
00:49:27,239 --> 00:49:33,520
Speaker 3: their life, the most common underlying cause or you know,

871
00:49:34,560 --> 00:49:37,080
Speaker 3: way that they were feeling that way or not moving

872
00:49:37,120 --> 00:49:40,919
Speaker 3: forward was unresolved grief. And I just want to touch

873
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:45,359
Speaker 3: on you know, if I was to ask you, what

874
00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:48,600
Speaker 3: do you think of the top five grief events in

875
00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:51,440
Speaker 3: someone's life? You know, what would you say they are? Like,

876
00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:55,120
Speaker 3: give five common things when somebody says I'm grieving or

877
00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:59,000
Speaker 3: its grief, what I think that would be?

878
00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:02,520
Speaker 1: I mean, off the top of my head, I would say,

879
00:50:02,719 --> 00:50:05,480
Speaker 1: without trying to be too tricky in figure it out

880
00:50:05,520 --> 00:50:08,000
Speaker 1: and get it right, I would have said, you know,

881
00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:12,920
Speaker 1: loss of a loved one, illness or loss of a

882
00:50:13,280 --> 00:50:16,080
Speaker 1: you know something, you know, a limb, or you know,

883
00:50:16,239 --> 00:50:23,319
Speaker 1: like getting cancer or whatever, losing a job. Perhaps if

884
00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:29,560
Speaker 1: it's you know, what's that three? I don't know what

885
00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:31,399
Speaker 1: would you add to that list? I'm sure you've got

886
00:50:31,400 --> 00:50:32,640
Speaker 1: something profound on.

887
00:50:32,600 --> 00:50:33,640
Speaker 3: Top of the pets.

888
00:50:33,640 --> 00:50:36,719
Speaker 1: Definitely lost, definitely, Well, that's loss of a love bun.

889
00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:40,719
Speaker 2: I guess I would lean into maybe the idea of

890
00:50:40,760 --> 00:50:43,960
Speaker 2: some of the stuff we go through as in childhood

891
00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:47,040
Speaker 2: maybe and the and the grief of a lot of

892
00:50:47,080 --> 00:50:47,680
Speaker 2: that time.

893
00:50:48,239 --> 00:50:52,840
Speaker 3: Yep, absolutely, yeah. And Craig bringing up that loss of

894
00:50:52,880 --> 00:50:55,560
Speaker 3: a limb or things like that's not that's actually because

895
00:50:55,600 --> 00:50:57,399
Speaker 3: of your background that a lot of people and your

896
00:50:57,800 --> 00:51:02,040
Speaker 3: best mate and people that you've you've helped a lot

897
00:51:02,080 --> 00:51:04,640
Speaker 3: of people don't see that is a grief event. You know,

898
00:51:04,760 --> 00:51:07,360
Speaker 3: straight up. They might see somebody with that or a

899
00:51:07,360 --> 00:51:12,799
Speaker 3: physical loss, or somebody who loses the ability to do

900
00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:15,680
Speaker 3: something they love because you know, maybe they're a dancer

901
00:51:15,800 --> 00:51:17,760
Speaker 3: or something they had an injury or a sports person.

902
00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:19,319
Speaker 3: I had an injury and they can no longer do

903
00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:22,799
Speaker 3: that activity. But yeah, that's all in there. And the

904
00:51:22,840 --> 00:51:27,120
Speaker 3: top five divorces is oneviously there in the top five

905
00:51:27,160 --> 00:51:29,840
Speaker 3: loss of a loved one, But there are over forty

906
00:51:29,920 --> 00:51:35,960
Speaker 3: three other losses that we address, and some of them

907
00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:43,640
Speaker 3: are tangible like that still death, divorce, pet loss, moving,

908
00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:49,920
Speaker 3: moving state, moving house. Wow, And consider a kid growing

909
00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:53,279
Speaker 3: up who moves twenty times because of their dads in

910
00:51:53,320 --> 00:51:56,120
Speaker 3: the military or something, or they move house twenty times,

911
00:51:56,160 --> 00:51:59,640
Speaker 3: and that child is told every time, don't be sad.

912
00:52:00,239 --> 00:52:04,400
Speaker 3: New friends. It's all logical and true. But he's grieving

913
00:52:04,440 --> 00:52:07,920
Speaker 3: the old friends. He's grieving. She grieving, or child grieving

914
00:52:08,640 --> 00:52:12,400
Speaker 3: the bedroom or that favorite house that they love, safe,

915
00:52:12,440 --> 00:52:14,359
Speaker 3: the neighborhood. And then all of a sudden, I got

916
00:52:14,360 --> 00:52:17,520
Speaker 3: to pick up and start again, new school again, make

917
00:52:17,600 --> 00:52:21,520
Speaker 3: new friends again, experience whatever there is around that. Or

918
00:52:21,719 --> 00:52:24,279
Speaker 3: you know, as an adult, moving and moving away from

919
00:52:24,320 --> 00:52:28,120
Speaker 3: your support network and you don't have family and friends

920
00:52:28,160 --> 00:52:32,919
Speaker 3: around you. Empty nest is another one, right one, Oh

921
00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:37,320
Speaker 3: yeah about face. And my son's going to travel overseas

922
00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:41,120
Speaker 3: next year, and and my daughter's already moved out of home.

923
00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:45,280
Speaker 3: And it's just that role. It's that that that grieving,

924
00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:48,480
Speaker 3: that role as a mother, as a parent, that you're

925
00:52:48,520 --> 00:52:51,400
Speaker 3: the caregiver, you're cooking for them, you're doing things, and

926
00:52:51,440 --> 00:52:55,080
Speaker 3: then suddenly you're sitting there you're not And for a

927
00:52:55,120 --> 00:52:57,760
Speaker 3: couple of couples, I'm doing it solo. But for couples,

928
00:52:57,840 --> 00:53:00,239
Speaker 3: they're all of a sudden, they're sat there looking at

929
00:53:00,239 --> 00:53:02,960
Speaker 3: each other. What do we do now we don't have

930
00:53:03,000 --> 00:53:05,600
Speaker 3: all these kids to run around and look after and

931
00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:09,880
Speaker 3: drive and all of that. And then the intangible ones

932
00:53:09,880 --> 00:53:13,640
Speaker 3: that Tiff just touched on, which I think is really important.

933
00:53:14,080 --> 00:53:18,480
Speaker 3: Loss of safety, loss of trust when it comes to

934
00:53:18,520 --> 00:53:21,320
Speaker 3: abuse or childhood abuse, things like that, loss of control

935
00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:24,240
Speaker 3: of their situation. Somebody who's in and out of foster

936
00:53:24,320 --> 00:53:27,360
Speaker 3: homes or whatever has experienced sexual abuse as a child,

937
00:53:27,480 --> 00:53:30,920
Speaker 3: or parental abuse, things like that, or just even in

938
00:53:32,520 --> 00:53:39,640
Speaker 3: unhealthy upbringing relationships, domestic violent situations. Loss of fertility is

939
00:53:39,680 --> 00:53:43,160
Speaker 3: another intangible one. Somebody who can't have children and they

940
00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:46,880
Speaker 3: find that out. Pregnancy loss is a big one people

941
00:53:46,920 --> 00:53:49,480
Speaker 3: don't talk about. So there's so many things that as

942
00:53:49,480 --> 00:53:51,800
Speaker 3: a society we don't see as a grief event. And

943
00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:56,120
Speaker 3: also in the last year I've become an ambassador for

944
00:53:56,160 --> 00:54:01,600
Speaker 3: Griefine Australia and one of their major programs is brief

945
00:54:01,640 --> 00:54:05,640
Speaker 3: literacy in the workplace and supporting workplaces because we're not

946
00:54:05,719 --> 00:54:09,280
Speaker 3: taught how to support a colleague and we might not recognize,

947
00:54:09,560 --> 00:54:11,600
Speaker 3: you know, they lost they lost a baby in early

948
00:54:11,640 --> 00:54:14,160
Speaker 3: stages or something, and they're like, oh, you know, that's

949
00:54:14,239 --> 00:54:16,719
Speaker 3: I feel sad for them, but it's that may not

950
00:54:16,840 --> 00:54:19,680
Speaker 3: be you know, what I'd consider a grief event, will

951
00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:21,480
Speaker 3: give them a day off work. You know they need

952
00:54:21,520 --> 00:54:25,200
Speaker 3: to recover physactly, but to that person. But you know,

953
00:54:25,320 --> 00:54:31,560
Speaker 3: imagine what's behind that scenario. And so in the workplaces,

954
00:54:31,600 --> 00:54:34,000
Speaker 3: you know, we're given one day off for a funeral

955
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:36,880
Speaker 3: and then we're told to come back and pretend nothink's

956
00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:41,239
Speaker 3: happened and able to have those conversations supporting each other.

957
00:54:41,640 --> 00:54:44,920
Speaker 3: So there's this whole, you know, list of grief and

958
00:54:44,960 --> 00:54:48,520
Speaker 3: loss events that we experience all throughout our life. Put

959
00:54:48,560 --> 00:54:51,239
Speaker 3: that into compounded loss like I, you know, I had

960
00:54:51,320 --> 00:54:57,120
Speaker 3: compounded loss in anticipatory grief where you may be caring

961
00:54:57,160 --> 00:55:00,880
Speaker 3: for a parent with dementia Alzheimer's and that goes on

962
00:55:00,960 --> 00:55:02,920
Speaker 3: for years and years and years, and you're grieving the

963
00:55:02,920 --> 00:55:05,920
Speaker 3: loss of what the person that they were to you beforehand,

964
00:55:06,520 --> 00:55:08,960
Speaker 3: that you know that's a vibrant your mum or your dad,

965
00:55:09,360 --> 00:55:11,800
Speaker 3: and all of a sudden they're not that person anymore.

966
00:55:12,680 --> 00:55:16,560
Speaker 3: And there's also anticipatory loss of illness caring for somebody

967
00:55:18,200 --> 00:55:22,080
Speaker 3: where you know that that's imminent and you have to

968
00:55:22,200 --> 00:55:27,719
Speaker 3: grieve pre grief the event, knowing that it's going to

969
00:55:27,760 --> 00:55:30,080
Speaker 3: happen and how to deal with that. So it's so

970
00:55:30,239 --> 00:55:34,040
Speaker 3: complicated and so layd and I guess for the most

971
00:55:34,040 --> 00:55:37,240
Speaker 3: important thing is to recognize other events in our life.

972
00:55:38,040 --> 00:55:40,200
Speaker 3: For us. When I do my workshops, I get people

973
00:55:40,200 --> 00:55:42,399
Speaker 3: to write down. They might come into my workshop because

974
00:55:42,400 --> 00:55:44,480
Speaker 3: they just lost their mum and they think to address

975
00:55:44,520 --> 00:55:47,080
Speaker 3: this or whatever. And then when we say, well, let's

976
00:55:47,080 --> 00:55:49,360
Speaker 3: look at some other losses here up on the board,

977
00:55:49,360 --> 00:55:53,160
Speaker 3: and let's has anyone experienced any of these, and they're yes,

978
00:55:53,680 --> 00:55:55,920
Speaker 3: oh yeah, and oh yeah, I forgot about that as

979
00:55:55,960 --> 00:55:58,720
Speaker 3: a child, because often we push all that stuff away

980
00:55:58,800 --> 00:56:05,000
Speaker 3: from our memories. And so when they experience a new

981
00:56:05,040 --> 00:56:08,160
Speaker 3: grief event like a death, which is what everyone recognizes

982
00:56:08,239 --> 00:56:12,120
Speaker 3: is grief, they wonder why there's all this other underlying

983
00:56:12,239 --> 00:56:15,200
Speaker 3: stuff bubbling up. And it's often because we haven't. It's

984
00:56:15,239 --> 00:56:19,239
Speaker 3: stuff from childhood. And almost everyone who comes to me

985
00:56:20,400 --> 00:56:23,360
Speaker 3: as a client with a recent loss, they will ninety

986
00:56:23,440 --> 00:56:28,240
Speaker 3: nine point nine percent end up working on something else. Yeah, los,

987
00:56:28,320 --> 00:56:28,879
Speaker 3: something else.

988
00:56:29,320 --> 00:56:34,040
Speaker 1: You know what's interesting when you're talking about you know,

989
00:56:34,400 --> 00:56:36,120
Speaker 1: you have a day off work and then it's like,

990
00:56:36,200 --> 00:56:38,320
Speaker 1: all right, You've had your day, come back to work,

991
00:56:38,440 --> 00:56:44,560
Speaker 1: and you know, people not I don't. I think some

992
00:56:44,960 --> 00:56:47,160
Speaker 1: people are just sociopaths and don't get it right. We

993
00:56:47,239 --> 00:56:48,960
Speaker 1: know that that's a fact, like a percentage of the

994
00:56:49,000 --> 00:56:52,480
Speaker 1: population don't really have empathy, they don't care. But I

995
00:56:52,560 --> 00:56:56,879
Speaker 1: also think they are a percentage of the population who

996
00:56:57,160 --> 00:57:01,080
Speaker 1: don't get it like we think. And I've said, I've

997
00:57:01,080 --> 00:57:03,560
Speaker 1: spoken about this had nause in but you know, there's

998
00:57:03,600 --> 00:57:06,480
Speaker 1: this idea or this construct in psychology called the false

999
00:57:06,480 --> 00:57:09,719
Speaker 1: consensus effect, and it just means that we think that

1000
00:57:09,760 --> 00:57:13,560
Speaker 1: other people think like us, or they should think like us, right,

1001
00:57:14,360 --> 00:57:18,439
Speaker 1: And I might go through something that I go through

1002
00:57:18,480 --> 00:57:21,000
Speaker 1: a thing and it devastates me for a week or two,

1003
00:57:21,120 --> 00:57:23,480
Speaker 1: and somebody else looks at me and the thing that

1004
00:57:23,520 --> 00:57:26,760
Speaker 1: I went through and they're like, I understand that you're sad,

1005
00:57:26,800 --> 00:57:30,040
Speaker 1: but that's just way disproportionate, you know what I mean.

1006
00:57:30,320 --> 00:57:34,040
Speaker 1: It's like looking through their eyes or their window of

1007
00:57:34,440 --> 00:57:38,840
Speaker 1: what is they wouldn't or they tell themselves, they would

1008
00:57:38,880 --> 00:57:41,600
Speaker 1: not respond like I do, which are not good or bad.

1009
00:57:41,640 --> 00:57:45,120
Speaker 1: It's just different. And I think that, like you know,

1010
00:57:45,160 --> 00:57:48,000
Speaker 1: the human experience is that we are always looking at

1011
00:57:48,040 --> 00:57:50,840
Speaker 1: other people and their experiences and their situation and the

1012
00:57:50,920 --> 00:57:54,320
Speaker 1: context of what they're going through and their behavior and

1013
00:57:54,360 --> 00:57:58,680
Speaker 1: their response. But we're always looking through our window, you know.

1014
00:57:58,800 --> 00:58:02,080
Speaker 1: I'm always looking through the Craig window at what Rachel's doing.

1015
00:58:02,640 --> 00:58:05,320
Speaker 1: So it's very much in my interest and your interests,

1016
00:58:05,360 --> 00:58:08,600
Speaker 1: especially with your job and TIFF's job, to try to

1017
00:58:08,760 --> 00:58:13,560
Speaker 1: understand others, not necessarily to judge them or to agree

1018
00:58:13,640 --> 00:58:17,680
Speaker 1: with them, but just trying to understand how do they think,

1019
00:58:18,120 --> 00:58:21,320
Speaker 1: what is this moment like now for them? Not how

1020
00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:23,920
Speaker 1: would I respond? Wtter give fuck out? You would respond,

1021
00:58:23,960 --> 00:58:27,680
Speaker 1: it's not about you for the moment, like how are

1022
00:58:27,720 --> 00:58:28,520
Speaker 1: they feeling?

1023
00:58:28,600 --> 00:58:28,720
Speaker 2: Like?

1024
00:58:28,800 --> 00:58:30,040
Speaker 1: What is this for them?

1025
00:58:30,240 --> 00:58:30,320
Speaker 3: Not?

1026
00:58:30,640 --> 00:58:33,480
Speaker 1: What do I think it should be for them? Not

1027
00:58:33,880 --> 00:58:36,200
Speaker 1: how would I be if you know, Because there's a

1028
00:58:36,280 --> 00:58:38,480
Speaker 1: whole lot of that that goes on. And then I think,

1029
00:58:38,600 --> 00:58:41,400
Speaker 1: and I'm sure I've done it too. I'm sure I've

1030
00:58:42,000 --> 00:58:45,920
Speaker 1: unknowingly and unintentionally judged people on their response to something

1031
00:58:46,400 --> 00:58:50,080
Speaker 1: because I thought it was disproportionate to the actual event.

1032
00:58:50,400 --> 00:58:53,200
Speaker 1: And so I'm sitting there on my fucking high horse

1033
00:58:53,240 --> 00:58:55,640
Speaker 1: at Craig Central, going well, I think that's a little bit,

1034
00:58:55,720 --> 00:58:59,160
Speaker 1: you know, over the crop, But I think that that

1035
00:58:59,280 --> 00:59:04,680
Speaker 1: kind of situacial and emotional intelligence and awareness that I

1036
00:59:04,800 --> 00:59:07,640
Speaker 1: talk about quite a lot, and probably because it was

1037
00:59:07,680 --> 00:59:09,960
Speaker 1: something I needed to get and still need to get

1038
00:59:10,000 --> 00:59:12,240
Speaker 1: better at. But there's not a lot of that going

1039
00:59:12,240 --> 00:59:13,720
Speaker 1: on sometimes, no.

1040
00:59:14,120 --> 00:59:18,440
Speaker 3: And to put that into contexts that contacts with grief,

1041
00:59:18,480 --> 00:59:20,960
Speaker 3: and it's such a great point to make, and I

1042
00:59:21,000 --> 00:59:23,200
Speaker 3: often teach people if you don't know what to say,

1043
00:59:23,440 --> 00:59:25,840
Speaker 3: at least say that I don't know what to say, yes,

1044
00:59:25,880 --> 00:59:28,080
Speaker 3: and I'm here for you, because sometimes we don't know

1045
00:59:28,080 --> 00:59:30,080
Speaker 3: what to say. And to put that into, you know,

1046
00:59:30,240 --> 00:59:33,480
Speaker 3: a picture of people's mind. Two people side by side

1047
00:59:33,520 --> 00:59:37,040
Speaker 3: have lost their grandparents, their grandmother. One person has met

1048
00:59:37,080 --> 00:59:39,240
Speaker 3: their grandmother twice in their life because they live in

1049
00:59:39,280 --> 00:59:41,880
Speaker 3: Italy and they come over twice on a holiday and

1050
00:59:41,920 --> 00:59:43,560
Speaker 3: they met them and they've just lost their grandmother. And

1051
00:59:43,640 --> 00:59:46,360
Speaker 3: the other person, the grandmother has lived in their house

1052
00:59:46,400 --> 00:59:50,680
Speaker 3: their whole life. Yes, and so immediately we think, you

1053
00:59:50,720 --> 00:59:53,440
Speaker 3: know of that, Oh you lost your grandma. Yeah, I

1054
00:59:53,520 --> 00:59:57,360
Speaker 3: did two last year, you know. And those two situations

1055
00:59:57,800 --> 00:59:59,760
Speaker 3: chalk and cheese completely at the different ends of the

1056
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:03,280
Speaker 3: spectrum when it comes down to relationships. And it's all

1057
01:00:03,280 --> 01:00:08,919
Speaker 3: about relationships. So let's ask some more situational where questions,

1058
01:00:09,440 --> 01:00:11,640
Speaker 3: what sort of relationship did you have with your grandma,

1059
01:00:12,160 --> 01:00:15,520
Speaker 3: like you know, did you see her lots or what

1060
01:00:15,680 --> 01:00:18,000
Speaker 3: was her name or and let's just get some context

1061
01:00:18,040 --> 01:00:21,520
Speaker 3: before then we jump in with that. Yeah that idea,

1062
01:00:22,000 --> 01:00:24,320
Speaker 3: like you said, in your mind, well, okay, that's your

1063
01:00:24,720 --> 01:00:26,480
Speaker 3: she lived a good life and whatever. I lost my

1064
01:00:26,520 --> 01:00:32,280
Speaker 3: grandma last year too, and whatever. And so being situationally aware,

1065
01:00:32,880 --> 01:00:36,000
Speaker 3: how is how where does this sit in their life?

1066
01:00:36,040 --> 01:00:41,760
Speaker 3: Like you said, be present, be listening and listening about

1067
01:00:41,800 --> 01:00:44,680
Speaker 3: how they're feeling about this situation before we could judge

1068
01:00:45,440 --> 01:00:47,400
Speaker 3: the scale of what we would think it would be

1069
01:00:47,480 --> 01:00:53,120
Speaker 3: for us. Exactly right. And yeah, if we don't know

1070
01:00:53,120 --> 01:00:54,520
Speaker 3: what to say or we don't know how to help

1071
01:00:54,560 --> 01:00:57,080
Speaker 3: because we have been experienced, I don't know what to say.

1072
01:00:57,200 --> 01:00:59,880
Speaker 3: I say that when people share with me about pet

1073
01:01:00,280 --> 01:01:03,760
Speaker 3: and and you know, the loss that tip had is

1074
01:01:03,800 --> 01:01:06,120
Speaker 3: that because I've never experienced that I had a pet,

1075
01:01:06,400 --> 01:01:09,360
Speaker 3: you know, one dog when I was little girl. I

1076
01:01:09,400 --> 01:01:12,680
Speaker 3: had a pet since. So I do not understand the complexities.

1077
01:01:12,920 --> 01:01:17,240
Speaker 3: I can, at my best imagine and be in people's

1078
01:01:17,240 --> 01:01:19,800
Speaker 3: lives to understand how much that pet is a part

1079
01:01:19,840 --> 01:01:24,120
Speaker 3: of their family. So I will never say to somebody,

1080
01:01:24,440 --> 01:01:27,000
Speaker 3: you know, oh, gosh, I know how you feel with that,

1081
01:01:27,240 --> 01:01:31,760
Speaker 3: you know, I lost this life because and so it's

1082
01:01:31,840 --> 01:01:34,280
Speaker 3: just gosh, I don't know what to say, you know,

1083
01:01:34,320 --> 01:01:37,160
Speaker 3: but what can I do? And maybe we can touch

1084
01:01:37,200 --> 01:01:39,760
Speaker 3: on those things. So having those conversations around what can

1085
01:01:39,840 --> 01:01:41,720
Speaker 3: we do to support colleagues, what can we do to

1086
01:01:41,720 --> 01:01:44,920
Speaker 3: support family members when they're going through something like that

1087
01:01:45,080 --> 01:01:47,880
Speaker 3: of any one of those losses, and to not open

1088
01:01:47,920 --> 01:01:50,440
Speaker 3: our minds as to it's not just death, it's not

1089
01:01:50,480 --> 01:01:53,880
Speaker 3: just divorce that people are experiencing grief and loss in

1090
01:01:53,920 --> 01:02:00,000
Speaker 3: a number of ways. Is to acknowledge, just acknowledge it

1091
01:02:00,640 --> 01:02:02,880
Speaker 3: first of all, to not ignore it as something or

1092
01:02:02,920 --> 01:02:06,880
Speaker 3: dismiss it or compare like you said, because comparing Rob's

1093
01:02:07,000 --> 01:02:11,280
Speaker 3: dignity of a person's loss, and to not jump in

1094
01:02:11,680 --> 01:02:15,600
Speaker 3: so I acknowledge it, you know, listen, look for cues

1095
01:02:15,640 --> 01:02:18,480
Speaker 3: as to how they're coping with the situation, where are

1096
01:02:18,480 --> 01:02:21,040
Speaker 3: they at, and then being present for them, and just

1097
01:02:21,520 --> 01:02:23,160
Speaker 3: to keep showing up and saying, I don't know what

1098
01:02:23,200 --> 01:02:25,480
Speaker 3: to say, but I'm here for you, you know. Is

1099
01:02:25,480 --> 01:02:28,160
Speaker 3: there something on your list that I can do for

1100
01:02:28,240 --> 01:02:30,760
Speaker 3: you in these coming weeks? Is there something I can

1101
01:02:30,840 --> 01:02:34,520
Speaker 3: take care or for you depending what your relationship is

1102
01:02:34,560 --> 01:02:39,120
Speaker 3: with this person, and then we need to educate in workplaces,

1103
01:02:39,160 --> 01:02:40,960
Speaker 3: we need to have those people in place. We need

1104
01:02:41,040 --> 01:02:44,640
Speaker 3: to have somebody that is a kind of a grief

1105
01:02:44,880 --> 01:02:48,040
Speaker 3: gatekeeper for that person. That's experience that can be for

1106
01:02:48,080 --> 01:02:50,280
Speaker 3: the workplace because they can buy all buy them flowers

1107
01:02:50,360 --> 01:02:52,480
Speaker 3: or whatever on one day and then the next day,

1108
01:02:52,520 --> 01:02:55,800
Speaker 3: but that gatekeeper can then maybe check in with that person,

1109
01:02:55,840 --> 01:02:58,080
Speaker 3: and that's part of their role in the workplace and

1110
01:02:58,120 --> 01:02:59,800
Speaker 3: in an office or whatever to go, I'm just going

1111
01:02:59,840 --> 01:03:01,760
Speaker 3: to go and check in on this person and maybe

1112
01:03:01,760 --> 01:03:03,800
Speaker 3: they're not doing so well. They can recognize that, and

1113
01:03:03,800 --> 01:03:06,360
Speaker 3: then then they can because that person also doesn't want

1114
01:03:06,400 --> 01:03:10,640
Speaker 3: to come into work. They're trying to, you know, get

1115
01:03:10,640 --> 01:03:13,160
Speaker 3: back to normal, they're trying to put on a smile,

1116
01:03:13,160 --> 01:03:15,320
Speaker 3: they're trying to do all these things. So they don't

1117
01:03:15,320 --> 01:03:18,760
Speaker 3: want to have these conversations in a workplace scenario because

1118
01:03:18,760 --> 01:03:21,400
Speaker 3: they know it's not a you know, it might not

1119
01:03:21,480 --> 01:03:26,800
Speaker 3: be appropriate. But if there's that gatekeeper, then they can

1120
01:03:26,800 --> 01:03:29,439
Speaker 3: say actually, and then that person then can go talk

1121
01:03:29,480 --> 01:03:31,200
Speaker 3: to people. And so we need to put some more

1122
01:03:31,240 --> 01:03:33,200
Speaker 3: things in place. Maybe they need a half day, maybe

1123
01:03:33,240 --> 01:03:35,120
Speaker 3: they need to be able to just leave whenever they

1124
01:03:35,680 --> 01:03:39,080
Speaker 3: want to have some time, or they might need a

1125
01:03:39,120 --> 01:03:41,840
Speaker 3: support phone call with somebody. So yeah, it's just about

1126
01:03:41,880 --> 01:03:45,480
Speaker 3: having those conversations and being, like you said, situationally aware.

1127
01:03:46,120 --> 01:03:49,560
Speaker 1: Do you feel like we've been chatting for an hour? Rah?

1128
01:03:49,600 --> 01:03:52,280
Speaker 3: Probably? You know, ask sweek a chat for so.

1129
01:03:52,280 --> 01:03:56,040
Speaker 1: Much more it is. It's good though, we have to

1130
01:03:56,040 --> 01:03:57,919
Speaker 1: get you back more than once to read two years.

1131
01:03:57,960 --> 01:04:00,240
Speaker 1: Let's stop every we need to get your back more

1132
01:04:00,240 --> 01:04:03,600
Speaker 1: than once every two years. Tell people, so, Gifts from

1133
01:04:03,680 --> 01:04:06,520
Speaker 1: Grief is the book. What else do you want to

1134
01:04:06,520 --> 01:04:10,800
Speaker 1: share with people? Where can they find you? Connect with you? Yeah?

1135
01:04:11,040 --> 01:04:11,600
Speaker 1: Let us know.

1136
01:04:11,840 --> 01:04:15,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, thanks Greig. Gifts from Grief on all the socials, Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn,

1137
01:04:15,800 --> 01:04:19,640
Speaker 3: Gifts from Grief Rachel Pope and yeah, my book Gifts

1138
01:04:19,680 --> 01:04:22,440
Speaker 3: from Grief Journey Back Home available on all of those.

1139
01:04:22,760 --> 01:04:24,520
Speaker 1: Thank you, Buttercup.

1140
01:04:24,280 --> 01:04:27,920
Speaker 3: Having me and lifting the lead on these conversations.

1141
01:04:28,240 --> 01:04:30,800
Speaker 1: Oh, you're very welcome. I realized one thing, Tiff and

1142
01:04:30,880 --> 01:04:35,240
Speaker 1: Rach and listeners. There's I've been I've been going to

1143
01:04:35,240 --> 01:04:37,280
Speaker 1: get a dog, and my dog is I'm going to

1144
01:04:37,280 --> 01:04:40,440
Speaker 1: get my dog when my PhD is finished, which is looming,

1145
01:04:41,520 --> 01:04:44,120
Speaker 1: and I'm going to get a dog, so I don't

1146
01:04:44,120 --> 01:04:47,400
Speaker 1: panic everyone. Not that anyone's panicking, but I think Tiff

1147
01:04:47,440 --> 01:04:51,800
Speaker 1: and Melissa a little bit hurry the fuck up. But

1148
01:04:52,000 --> 01:04:56,280
Speaker 1: I realized there's an underlying apprehension. Now I love dogs

1149
01:04:57,200 --> 01:05:00,600
Speaker 1: and too. If somebody brings it, I'll go over. I'm

1150
01:05:00,640 --> 01:05:02,560
Speaker 1: on the grass with the dog. I'm fucking the dog's

1151
01:05:02,600 --> 01:05:04,680
Speaker 1: loving me. I'm looking the dog, the dog's looking me.

1152
01:05:04,720 --> 01:05:08,000
Speaker 1: It's all going on. There's fucking dopamine central, right, And

1153
01:05:08,000 --> 01:05:11,800
Speaker 1: then I'm like, what is my apprehension? And I realized it.

1154
01:05:12,000 --> 01:05:14,400
Speaker 1: I don't want to lose the dog. Like before I

1155
01:05:14,440 --> 01:05:17,360
Speaker 1: get the dog, I'm worried about losing the dog. I'm

1156
01:05:17,360 --> 01:05:19,440
Speaker 1: already going I don't want to be sad. I don't

1157
01:05:19,440 --> 01:05:21,640
Speaker 1: want to go through grief. I'm not going to love

1158
01:05:21,680 --> 01:05:25,920
Speaker 1: that dog. Fuck that dog. That dog's not coming because

1159
01:05:25,960 --> 01:05:28,080
Speaker 1: I know how much I'm going to love the dog.

1160
01:05:28,560 --> 01:05:31,439
Speaker 1: And then from day three, all I'm going to it's

1161
01:05:31,480 --> 01:05:34,480
Speaker 1: not but you know, like it kind of it is

1162
01:05:34,520 --> 01:05:36,760
Speaker 1: a bit it. As we were going through this, I

1163
01:05:36,800 --> 01:05:41,000
Speaker 1: was thinking, when, especially when we spoke about Tiff losing coach,

1164
01:05:41,080 --> 01:05:44,680
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh God, anyway, on that uplifting note, we'll

1165
01:05:44,680 --> 01:05:49,680
Speaker 1: say goodbye our fair but Tiff, Rach thank you so much.

1166
01:05:49,800 --> 01:05:53,640
Speaker 1: Appreciate you both and we'll catch up again soon.

1167
01:05:53,760 --> 01:05:53,960
Speaker 2: Rach.

1168
01:05:54,480 --> 01:05:56,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, thanks Craig, thanks Tiff, thank you