1 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:08,640 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Fear and Greed Business Interview. I'm Sean Aylmer. 2 00:00:08,840 --> 00:00:12,400 Speaker 1: Every major project that's ever been completed, from putting Man 3 00:00:12,440 --> 00:00:15,760 Speaker 1: on the Moon to developing COVID vaccines, has had one 4 00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:19,680 Speaker 1: thing in common, and it shares it with smaller projects too, 5 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:22,760 Speaker 1: property development or the rollout of a new software for example. 6 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:25,680 Speaker 1: Behind the scenes of all of these things, there's somebody 7 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 1: running the project and they're called the project manager. But 8 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 1: despite it being a very common job, and a high 9 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:34,120 Speaker 1: earning one at that, the pathways into it as a 10 00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:37,520 Speaker 1: career haven't always been so clear. That's where my guest 11 00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:40,600 Speaker 1: today comes in. William Ryan is the managing director of 12 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:45,040 Speaker 1: Project Management Planet Project Management Planet will Welcome to Fear 13 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:45,440 Speaker 1: and Greed. 14 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:47,200 Speaker 2: Thanks a lot, Sean, it's great to be here. 15 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:50,879 Speaker 1: So I want to hear your background, will because you 16 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:53,720 Speaker 1: are not necessarily a salesman by trade. You're a lawyer. 17 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 1: Is that right? 18 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:58,080 Speaker 2: That's exactly right, Sean. So I was a project's lawyer 19 00:00:58,120 --> 00:01:01,320 Speaker 2: for a number of years at a few Sydney firms, 20 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:04,720 Speaker 2: and during my time there I had the great benefit 21 00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:08,800 Speaker 2: of working with a number of project teams and project managers. 22 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 2: During that time, I sort of noticed two trends. The 23 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:16,720 Speaker 2: first was that all the project teams were very busy 24 00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:20,399 Speaker 2: and always commenting on how understaff they were, which is 25 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 2: a fact that it's actually reflected by data about seventy 26 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:27,240 Speaker 2: percent of project teams understaffed in Australia. The second thing 27 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:31,959 Speaker 2: I discovered was that it didn't really matter about the 28 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:35,360 Speaker 2: scale or complexity of the projects. The teams that performed 29 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:38,679 Speaker 2: best took a structured and systematic approach to managing their 30 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:43,840 Speaker 2: projects so they had better outcomes, so within budget, within schedule. 31 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:46,800 Speaker 2: But also staff members were generally happier because they weren't 32 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:50,200 Speaker 2: scrambling working late. And so with that sort of insight, 33 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:51,960 Speaker 2: I thought, you know, I think there's a bit of 34 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:56,080 Speaker 2: an opportunity for an Australian based project management training company, 35 00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 2: and that's how Project Management Planet was conceived. 36 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:02,120 Speaker 1: Just take me backer sticks, I don't know much about 37 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:05,680 Speaker 1: her at all. A project teams. Who's a project team? 38 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 2: Like? 39 00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:07,200 Speaker 1: Really dumb it down for me? 40 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:10,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, no problem. So let's start off with a few 41 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:13,800 Speaker 2: sort of key members. So a project manager is someone 42 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:18,600 Speaker 2: that's responsible for coordinating different people performing different tasks with 43 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 2: a shared goal. So a classic example is building a 44 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:27,359 Speaker 2: house You'll have an electrician that's responsible for cables and wires. Yep, 45 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:30,880 Speaker 2: You'll have a plumber responsible for piping, paint for painting, 46 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:34,560 Speaker 2: and so on. All those people have discrete scopes. But 47 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:37,480 Speaker 2: who's responsible for the overall product, which is building the 48 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:41,360 Speaker 2: house and coordinating them. That's the project manager. So a 49 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:45,200 Speaker 2: project manager is a lot like the team leader basically, 50 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:49,920 Speaker 2: and they're supported by a number of different roles project coordinator, analysts, 51 00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:53,520 Speaker 2: support office who basically assists the project manager to completing 52 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:54,079 Speaker 2: the project. 53 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:55,880 Speaker 1: Okay, so I kind of like it. I mean it 54 00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:58,400 Speaker 1: sounds like a good job. How do you become a 55 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 1: project manager? Is it? The case of if you're running 56 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:03,519 Speaker 1: a marketing team, mostly is because you're a good marketer 57 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:05,960 Speaker 1: and you became the head of the marketing team. That 58 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:09,639 Speaker 1: presumably isn't in your example, the best electrician doesn't necessarily 59 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 1: become the project manager. 60 00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:14,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's exactly right. So it's actually really fascinating the 61 00:03:14,440 --> 00:03:19,600 Speaker 2: way project manager has as a role has developed over there. 62 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:22,160 Speaker 2: I say human history sewn because I'm of the view 63 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 2: that the project manager is one of the earliest professions 64 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:28,680 Speaker 2: in the world. Why is that, Well, if you look 65 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:32,359 Speaker 2: at any great, say archaeological site Sean Yep Colise and 66 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:37,560 Speaker 2: Pyramids of Geezer, Marchu Pitchew, big monuments that were built 67 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:41,800 Speaker 2: by project managers back then, probably not called a project manager, 68 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 2: probably a slave owner, these hieroglyphics. But the point is 69 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 2: this profession, whether it's called or not, has existed forever. Historically, 70 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:52,760 Speaker 2: though up until about the eighties, it was more learnt 71 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:56,680 Speaker 2: on the job. So maybe it was on a building site. 72 00:03:56,720 --> 00:03:59,280 Speaker 2: Maybe someone had a bit of a bit more getting 73 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:02,320 Speaker 2: go or brains I say that nicely, and they sort 74 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 2: of became a managerial role. More recently, however, it has 75 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:09,800 Speaker 2: shifted into something that canon should be taught so that 76 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:12,279 Speaker 2: there's no gaps. So you see that through the universities 77 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 2: and also professional certifications. 78 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:17,520 Speaker 1: Okay, so you were exposed to this through your job 79 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 1: as a lawyer. You are now running a training company. Yes, 80 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:24,479 Speaker 1: how do you make that leap? That's quite a leap 81 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 1: of faith. 82 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:28,640 Speaker 2: It is a leap of faith I think for me personally, 83 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:32,200 Speaker 2: just the data was there. Australia is becoming a project 84 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:35,320 Speaker 2: based economy and if you look at any project based 85 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:38,120 Speaker 2: industry in Australia, there is huge government support for it. 86 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 2: So take construction National Housing Accord one point two million 87 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:46,640 Speaker 2: houses hopefully being built within four or five years. That's 88 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:50,280 Speaker 2: one point two million projects. Renewable energy eighty two percent 89 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:53,600 Speaker 2: renewable energy target that will only be made by renewable 90 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:59,560 Speaker 2: energy generation and storage projects. Same for it, same for manufacturing. 91 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:02,880 Speaker 2: There's a real growing demand. So I thought there's a 92 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 2: real opportunity for an Australian based training company. Of Course, 93 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 2: personally I'm not doing the training. We get experts to 94 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:11,280 Speaker 2: do that, but we'll see how it goes. 95 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 1: Okay, So he does the training. 96 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:18,000 Speaker 2: So we have experts, project management experts that were project 97 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 2: managements themselves, but also accredited to train others. So these 98 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:26,719 Speaker 2: are accreditations by companies like the Project Management Institute, which 99 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:29,520 Speaker 2: is probably the biggest project management body in the world. 100 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:33,239 Speaker 1: Okay, Now, you came to us in a sense because 101 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:37,159 Speaker 1: you were a great supporter of the Ride for Country Kids, absolutely, 102 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:39,719 Speaker 1: which of course is the Royal Far West charity where 103 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:42,640 Speaker 1: Michel not Michael Thompson, he certainly didn't do it, but 104 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:45,520 Speaker 1: Adam Lang and I rode nearly four hundred kilometers and 105 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:48,279 Speaker 1: raised money for it, and you were part of that, 106 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:51,120 Speaker 1: which is kind of why you're here today, what have 107 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:54,920 Speaker 1: you found? Essentially you're a startup. You've made sales, so 108 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:58,240 Speaker 1: you have sold these courses. What's been the biggest surprise 109 00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:00,840 Speaker 1: to you? As a star, as a as a startup 110 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:04,560 Speaker 1: and someone who's gone from corporate to kind of having 111 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:08,040 Speaker 1: fixed the photocopy year slff, you've got a photocopy, what's 112 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:09,200 Speaker 1: been the biggest surprise to here? 113 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:12,280 Speaker 2: We'll where all digital sewan, so no photocopy is Firstly, 114 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:16,320 Speaker 2: the biggest surprise is probably I mean even as a 115 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:18,440 Speaker 2: lawyer you have to be a bit of a self startup, 116 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:21,760 Speaker 2: but you're constantly taking instructions it might be from partnership 117 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:25,039 Speaker 2: or clients, whereas if you're running a startup every day, 118 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:28,240 Speaker 2: things only get done if you're going to do them, 119 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:32,159 Speaker 2: So that's probably been a big change. The other change 120 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:35,880 Speaker 2: is obviously as a startup it's sales based, very different 121 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:38,480 Speaker 2: to being a lawyer, so that's a whole new skill set. Well, 122 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:39,640 Speaker 2: so part of the fun. 123 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:41,480 Speaker 1: Are you enjoying this selling? 124 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:46,440 Speaker 2: The first month I entered a deep depression when everyone 125 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:49,279 Speaker 2: wanted to know who I was and had all sorts 126 00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:50,840 Speaker 2: of requests, But sort of you adjust to it and 127 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 2: now it's really good what I like about selling is that, say, 128 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:58,000 Speaker 2: in the project management space, it'll be people that want 129 00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:00,680 Speaker 2: a career change into project management and have any skill 130 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:02,920 Speaker 2: sets in it, and we can help them do that. 131 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:06,280 Speaker 2: Or by contrast, they might be an experienced project manager 132 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:09,200 Speaker 2: and they're missing out on tenders or promotions because they 133 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:12,920 Speaker 2: don't have that line on their CV demonstrating a certification. 134 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:14,600 Speaker 2: So it's great to be able to help people like 135 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:17,920 Speaker 2: that achieve their goals get towards their dream life. 136 00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:21,560 Speaker 1: The people coming into the industry, where are they typically from? 137 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 1: Are they university graduates? Are they people who have kind 138 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:26,920 Speaker 1: of not done it? I mean mid twenty year olds 139 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 1: who trying to work out what to do with their life. 140 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:30,560 Speaker 1: Have we got there? Yeah, of course. 141 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:34,600 Speaker 2: So typically I would say they are twenty five to 142 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:38,360 Speaker 2: forty five people that have had a career, whether that's 143 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:41,600 Speaker 2: as a tradee for instance, and they've seen what project 144 00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:44,280 Speaker 2: managers do and what they can achieve, or maybe they've 145 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 2: been in a completely different industry. They're not seeing much progression. 146 00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:50,560 Speaker 2: They read a lot online as we all do, about 147 00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:53,240 Speaker 2: how the project world is booming in Australia, and they 148 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:55,680 Speaker 2: think I want a piece of that, and that's sort of. 149 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:59,640 Speaker 2: The great thing about the project management profession is because 150 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:02,560 Speaker 2: you don't need to do a two to three year 151 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 2: long unit degree to get into it, be only good 152 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:07,880 Speaker 2: money and have great progression of flexibility. 153 00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 1: I did a minispac off are Will and you were 154 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:12,760 Speaker 1: talking about the fact that people get paid a lot 155 00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:14,480 Speaker 1: of money in project management. 156 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:17,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, Sean. So if you look at say 157 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:22,680 Speaker 2: starter from SIK job board, average project manager earns between 158 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 2: one hundred and thirty five one hundred and fifty five grand, 159 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:28,520 Speaker 2: which is pretty incredible considering you don't need a degree 160 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:31,360 Speaker 2: to become a project manager. As you work up high 161 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 2: through the rank so to speak, program management, portfolio management, 162 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:38,360 Speaker 2: project director, you're northwards of two hundred grand. So it's 163 00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 2: a fantastic industry for those that want to take a 164 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:42,160 Speaker 2: non traditional path. 165 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:45,719 Speaker 1: I'm into employment, Okay, So do you think it's a 166 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:48,520 Speaker 1: sector that just keeps going and going over the next 167 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 1: decade or so? I mean your examples about renewables and 168 00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:54,959 Speaker 1: one point two million houses and stuff like that. It's 169 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:56,320 Speaker 1: kind of as a future. 170 00:08:56,440 --> 00:09:00,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so. While those project based industries like construction, 171 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:05,679 Speaker 2: it manufacturing grow, it's just inevitable that project management will 172 00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:08,679 Speaker 2: grow too, because we need people to manage these projects 173 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:13,000 Speaker 2: and as Australia becomes increasingly project based, I just can't 174 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 2: see any other way except for the project management profession 175 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:18,600 Speaker 2: to grow and become more dynamic and exciting too. 176 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 1: Well will good luck with us. It's Project Management Planet. 177 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:23,840 Speaker 1: If someone wants to get in touch with you, is 178 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:25,319 Speaker 1: it your website? The best place? 179 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:29,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, phone or website. So website is www dot PM 180 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:32,719 Speaker 2: planet dot com, um planet, right, that's I M P 181 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:35,520 Speaker 2: L A N E T. That's right, Project Management PM 182 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:37,760 Speaker 2: planet dot com dot au. Or you can give us 183 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:38,560 Speaker 2: a buzz. 184 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:41,000 Speaker 1: Right, I'm sure we'll find that somewhere. If you google 185 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:44,120 Speaker 1: the phone number Project Management Planet, it will come up. Well, 186 00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:45,400 Speaker 1: thank you for talking to Fear and Greed. 187 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:46,720 Speaker 2: Thank you very much. 188 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:50,240 Speaker 1: That was William Ryan, managing director of Project Management Planet. 189 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:52,440 Speaker 1: This is the Fear and Greed Business Interview. Join us 190 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:54,680 Speaker 1: every morning for the full episode of Fear and Greed 191 00:09:55,040 --> 00:10:00,520 Speaker 1: Business news you can use I'm sel enjoy your day.