1 00:00:03,900 --> 00:00:07,350 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear & Greed Daily Business Interview. 16 years 2 00:00:07,350 --> 00:00:10,228 Sean Aylmer: ago, my guest started a business out of his parents' 3 00:00:10,230 --> 00:00:13,980 Sean Aylmer: garage with about $ 250 in his pocket. Along with his 4 00:00:13,980 --> 00:00:16,139 Sean Aylmer: brother he stuck at it, and there's a pun in 5 00:00:16,139 --> 00:00:19,170 Sean Aylmer: that. Richard Capp started a wallpaper business that's grown to 6 00:00:19,170 --> 00:00:22,770 Sean Aylmer: be one of Toowoomba's biggest businesses. It has a facility 7 00:00:22,770 --> 00:00:25,259 Sean Aylmer: in that city as well as a warehouse in Texas 8 00:00:25,259 --> 00:00:28,260 Sean Aylmer: that prints wallpaper 24- hours a day to meet demand, 9 00:00:28,620 --> 00:00:32,340 Sean Aylmer: pushed into the EU and UK recently. Milton and King 10 00:00:32,340 --> 00:00:34,349 Sean Aylmer: is the name of the business. They work with regional 11 00:00:34,350 --> 00:00:37,350 Sean Aylmer: and national artists and brands to develop wallpaper. Richard, welcome 12 00:00:37,350 --> 00:00:38,129 Sean Aylmer: to Fear & Greed. 13 00:00:38,490 --> 00:00:39,330 Richard Capp: Thank you for having me. 14 00:00:40,019 --> 00:00:43,470 Sean Aylmer: So why start a business? Why start a wallpaper business? 15 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:44,729 Sean Aylmer: Tell me the backstory. 16 00:00:45,210 --> 00:00:49,290 Richard Capp: Well, we didn't start with wallpaper in mind. We just ended up 17 00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:55,140 Richard Capp: in wallpaper. We started off in advertising, graphic design services. 18 00:00:55,380 --> 00:00:58,320 Richard Capp: So obviously that was a much easier way to start 19 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:01,170 Richard Capp: when we didn't have any money. So we started that 20 00:01:01,170 --> 00:01:03,179 Richard Capp: way. We got into printing, we were doing some canvas 21 00:01:03,179 --> 00:01:05,550 Richard Capp: printing and stuff like that, and then ended up in 22 00:01:05,550 --> 00:01:08,190 Richard Capp: wallpaper. So it took a few years, but we got there. 23 00:01:08,610 --> 00:01:11,399 Sean Aylmer: So did you follow the market? Is that kind of 24 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:12,328 Sean Aylmer: why you ended up there? 25 00:01:13,078 --> 00:01:15,000 Richard Capp: No, we had a printer and somebody had asked us 26 00:01:15,569 --> 00:01:18,540 Richard Capp: if we could print wallpaper, and we were a bit intrigued if 27 00:01:18,540 --> 00:01:21,300 Richard Capp: we could. And we also, Bryce had designed a brochure 28 00:01:21,450 --> 00:01:23,910 Richard Capp: which had a wall mural in it, and we had more people interested 29 00:01:23,910 --> 00:01:26,069 Richard Capp: in the wall mural than they were the prints that 30 00:01:26,069 --> 00:01:29,219 Richard Capp: we were doing. So that's kind of what steered us 31 00:01:29,219 --> 00:01:30,449 Richard Capp: towards wallpaper. 32 00:01:31,230 --> 00:01:34,110 Sean Aylmer: Okay. So you and your brother Bryce started pushing into 33 00:01:34,110 --> 00:01:38,429 Sean Aylmer: wallpaper. How did you grow? How did you suddenly become 34 00:01:38,429 --> 00:01:41,910 Sean Aylmer: this business that you are now, which is a significant 35 00:01:43,049 --> 00:01:46,679 Sean Aylmer: producer of wallpaper? What was the process? Was it just people around 36 00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:47,879 Sean Aylmer: the area? How'd it go? 37 00:01:47,879 --> 00:01:52,980 Richard Capp: It was a long process. It was hard from Australia. 38 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:56,010 Richard Capp: You tell people in Australia about wallpaper and they thought 39 00:01:56,010 --> 00:02:00,029 Richard Capp: you were crazy. It had had its heyday and well and truly 40 00:02:00,030 --> 00:02:03,839 Richard Capp: passed. We just saw it was a bit of a 41 00:02:03,839 --> 00:02:08,520 Richard Capp: creative outlet and we thought there's got to be something here. So 42 00:02:09,060 --> 00:02:12,150 Richard Capp: we started and we started off doing murals for shop 43 00:02:12,150 --> 00:02:15,840 Richard Capp: fit outs and things like that, and there was money 44 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:18,600 Richard Capp: in that because they wanted a quick turnaround, big impact. 45 00:02:18,900 --> 00:02:20,490 Richard Capp: You get a lot of bang for your buck out 46 00:02:20,490 --> 00:02:22,529 Richard Capp: of a wall mural when you're doing fit outs and 47 00:02:22,529 --> 00:02:25,470 Richard Capp: things like that. So we started off that way and 48 00:02:25,470 --> 00:02:27,960 Richard Capp: we had a bit more margin in that product. And 49 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:30,510 Richard Capp: then trying to compete with the wallpaper industry. It was 50 00:02:30,990 --> 00:02:34,020 Richard Capp: this old industry with low prices. No one was using 51 00:02:34,020 --> 00:02:36,840 Richard Capp: digital printers. How do we get into that? And that 52 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:38,940 Richard Capp: was our main focus. So whilst we were doing all 53 00:02:38,940 --> 00:02:41,910 Richard Capp: this other stuff around the sides, the focus was on 54 00:02:41,969 --> 00:02:44,069 Richard Capp: how do we scale it to be able to compete 55 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:47,490 Richard Capp: on a worldwide level at a retail price point with 56 00:02:47,490 --> 00:02:49,920 Richard Capp: the big boys. And eventually we sort of got there. 57 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:52,650 Sean Aylmer: Through the use of technology primarily. I mean, that's kind 58 00:02:52,650 --> 00:02:56,700 Sean Aylmer: of where you had your competitive advantage against those already 59 00:02:56,700 --> 00:02:57,268 Sean Aylmer: in the market. 60 00:02:58,350 --> 00:03:01,919 Richard Capp: Well, we'd started off, we were using digital and that 61 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:05,400 Richard Capp: was really our only option. We didn't have enough money to be able to 62 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:10,710 Richard Capp: produce wallpaper with analog machines, produce one roll or one 63 00:03:10,710 --> 00:03:15,389 Richard Capp: design and minimum of a hundred rolls of each. So that wasn't an option. 64 00:03:15,389 --> 00:03:19,470 Richard Capp: We wanted to be able to design collections and not carry any stocks. 65 00:03:19,470 --> 00:03:22,230 Richard Capp: I was like, right, let's do this digitally and see 66 00:03:22,230 --> 00:03:25,650 Richard Capp: where we end up. And then technology came out, we're 67 00:03:25,650 --> 00:03:28,739 Richard Capp: probably two or three years in, and the right printer 68 00:03:28,740 --> 00:03:31,980 Richard Capp: came out and then we jumped on that and then 69 00:03:31,980 --> 00:03:35,369 Richard Capp: we found the right paper and technology changed with that. 70 00:03:35,639 --> 00:03:38,790 Richard Capp: It was just probably we were early enough in to 71 00:03:38,790 --> 00:03:41,940 Richard Capp: be able to make the most of it and grow as the technology did. 72 00:03:42,450 --> 00:03:44,760 Sean Aylmer: Okay. So how big are you now? I mentioned that 73 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:45,150 Sean Aylmer: you've got - 74 00:03:45,330 --> 00:03:48,900 Richard Capp: We're not that big. Essentially, you said we're a massive 75 00:03:48,900 --> 00:03:50,999 Richard Capp: business, we're not. We're only a tiny business. We've got 76 00:03:51,030 --> 00:03:55,440 Richard Capp: 20 employees and that's across three continents. We've got two in 77 00:03:56,130 --> 00:03:58,619 Richard Capp: the UK, what we got, 10 or so in the 78 00:03:58,619 --> 00:04:02,099 Richard Capp: US and then everybody else is in Australia. So yeah, 79 00:04:02,099 --> 00:04:04,829 Richard Capp: we're only small, but we do have two factories, but 80 00:04:04,980 --> 00:04:06,000 Richard Capp: they're only small factories. 81 00:04:06,660 --> 00:04:09,929 Sean Aylmer: Okay. And so what are you producing then? I'm not sure how 82 00:04:09,929 --> 00:04:13,110 Sean Aylmer: we measure wallpaper, meters I'm sure, but how much do 83 00:04:13,110 --> 00:04:14,550 Sean Aylmer: you output each year? 84 00:04:15,510 --> 00:04:19,650 Richard Capp: Well, we produce around 50, 000 rolls of wallpaper. So for 85 00:04:19,650 --> 00:04:21,960 Richard Capp: the size of what we're, I suppose we're producing a 86 00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:26,219 Richard Capp: fair bit of paper. We've got four digital printers of 87 00:04:26,219 --> 00:04:28,500 Richard Capp: our own, which sort of go pretty much every day, 88 00:04:28,710 --> 00:04:32,010 Richard Capp: five days a week. And the US factory, it just supplies the 89 00:04:32,010 --> 00:04:34,950 Richard Capp: US market. The Australian factory currently does Australia and a bit of 90 00:04:34,950 --> 00:04:36,870 Richard Capp: export out of Australia, and then we've got a third 91 00:04:36,870 --> 00:04:39,659 Richard Capp: factory coming on in Europe in the next month or 92 00:04:39,660 --> 00:04:42,750 Richard Capp: so, which will supply our UK and EU sales. 93 00:04:43,380 --> 00:04:45,390 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me, Richard. We'll be back in a minute. 94 00:04:51,510 --> 00:04:54,000 Sean Aylmer: My guest today is Richard Capp, founder of Milton and 95 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:58,830 Sean Aylmer: King. Now when I think of wallpaper, Richard, I have 96 00:04:59,070 --> 00:05:03,719 Sean Aylmer: trauma involved. It was 1970s, taking wallpaper off, putting new 97 00:05:04,049 --> 00:05:07,950 Sean Aylmer: wallpaper on, all that sort of thing. That was sort 98 00:05:07,950 --> 00:05:11,430 Sean Aylmer: of seventies, and then we went through periods where no 99 00:05:11,430 --> 00:05:14,669 Sean Aylmer: one seemed to think about wallpaper. Is it cyclical? Is 100 00:05:14,670 --> 00:05:18,750 Sean Aylmer: it a trend thing? I'm kind of intrigued about who 101 00:05:18,750 --> 00:05:20,249 Sean Aylmer: uses wallpaper mostly now. 102 00:05:21,270 --> 00:05:24,510 Richard Capp: Well, I can say the US market is very different 103 00:05:24,510 --> 00:05:26,880 Richard Capp: to the Australian market. Actually, I was just on a 104 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:28,890 Richard Capp: group meeting, we were just talking about sales in each 105 00:05:28,890 --> 00:05:32,279 Richard Capp: market and some of the beige designs are actually the 106 00:05:32,639 --> 00:05:36,359 Richard Capp: biggest sellers in Australia. So they're not quite as brave in 107 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:39,690 Richard Capp: Australia but the US we sell pretty much every design 108 00:05:39,690 --> 00:05:42,149 Richard Capp: we've got. You see it at some stage, someone will 109 00:05:42,150 --> 00:05:44,880 Richard Capp: put it on a wall somewhere. Australia's not quite as 110 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:49,650 Richard Capp: brave. So Australia had huge wallpaper market and then it 111 00:05:49,650 --> 00:05:52,740 Richard Capp: just went right out of stock. It's slowly coming back. 112 00:05:52,740 --> 00:05:55,110 Richard Capp: So all your interiors, if you flick through a magazine, 113 00:05:55,170 --> 00:05:58,980 Richard Capp: every backdrop has got wallpaper in it, so it's coming 114 00:05:58,980 --> 00:06:03,000 Richard Capp: back. The interior designers are definitely back on wallpaper, but 115 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:06,570 Richard Capp: technology is also helping that because you've now got wall 116 00:06:06,570 --> 00:06:10,649 Richard Capp: murals and bigger repeats. And digital has enabled a whole 117 00:06:10,650 --> 00:06:12,868 Richard Capp: lot more patent than a whole lot more options when 118 00:06:12,870 --> 00:06:16,049 Richard Capp: it comes to wallpaper. So everybody says, oh, it's back 119 00:06:16,049 --> 00:06:19,770 Richard Capp: in, how long is it going to last? But there's a few out there now saying it's back and it's 120 00:06:19,770 --> 00:06:22,111 Richard Capp: going to stay back because of technology. But who knows. 121 00:06:22,111 --> 00:06:25,320 Sean Aylmer: Okay. Is Milton and King, mostly it's retail rather than 122 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:26,460 Sean Aylmer: wholesale? That's a question. 123 00:06:27,450 --> 00:06:30,808 Richard Capp: Well, we're all e- commerce, so everything goes via our 124 00:06:30,809 --> 00:06:34,289 Richard Capp: website. So we're direct to consumer, but we also have 125 00:06:34,289 --> 00:06:37,320 Richard Capp: trade logins. So in the US we have six and 126 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:40,589 Richard Capp: half thousand trade accounts. So quite a lot of interior 127 00:06:40,589 --> 00:06:43,890 Richard Capp: designers logging on and placing orders. And then we've got 128 00:06:43,890 --> 00:06:48,389 Richard Capp: wholesalers, we've got 1800 resellers in the US now, and that's 129 00:06:48,389 --> 00:06:49,409 Richard Capp: growing pretty quickly. 130 00:06:49,770 --> 00:06:52,229 Sean Aylmer: And how do you market yourself? Is it social media 131 00:06:52,289 --> 00:06:53,579 Sean Aylmer: influencers, that type of thing? 132 00:06:53,940 --> 00:06:59,250 Richard Capp: Yeah, social media and outreach with influencers who are doing 133 00:06:59,250 --> 00:07:02,940 Richard Capp: up rooms and things like that, we partner to provide 134 00:07:02,940 --> 00:07:04,950 Richard Capp: wallpaper and stuff like that. And that's been a really 135 00:07:04,950 --> 00:07:07,678 Richard Capp: good way to grow with our socials. But obviously we 136 00:07:07,678 --> 00:07:13,470 Richard Capp: pay for our outreach via Pinterest and things like that, Facebook, 137 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:14,250 Richard Capp: Google Ads. 138 00:07:14,850 --> 00:07:20,040 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. Okay. What about the environmental challenges around wallpaper production? 139 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:22,380 Sean Aylmer: Every business seems to have to think about that now. 140 00:07:22,710 --> 00:07:30,240 Richard Capp: Yeah, we really started off, we were using digital, small 141 00:07:30,300 --> 00:07:33,180 Richard Capp: factories. That was our thing. How do we get close to the people 142 00:07:33,180 --> 00:07:35,220 Richard Capp: that want our paper and how do we not carry 143 00:07:35,220 --> 00:07:38,790 Richard Capp: warehouses full of stuff? So that's our big advantage. We've got a 144 00:07:38,790 --> 00:07:43,110 Richard Capp: really small footprint. We don't print anything unless someone's actually 145 00:07:43,110 --> 00:07:45,719 Richard Capp: putting it on their wall. We have very few returns, 146 00:07:45,719 --> 00:07:47,699 Richard Capp: so we don't even carry that much stock. The only 147 00:07:47,699 --> 00:07:51,270 Richard Capp: stock are actual returns when people change their mind or 148 00:07:51,270 --> 00:07:55,170 Richard Capp: over order. So yeah, we're pretty lucky. By setting up 149 00:07:55,170 --> 00:07:57,960 Richard Capp: smaller factories we don't even have international freight costs, we 150 00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:00,750 Richard Capp: don't even have planes flying our product around the world. 151 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:03,570 Richard Capp: We're localized in our markets. 152 00:08:05,490 --> 00:08:09,450 Sean Aylmer: The thing here, you're about to set up in the EU, you're 153 00:08:09,450 --> 00:08:16,260 Sean Aylmer: in Texas, you are here. Is it relatively uncomplicated to 154 00:08:16,260 --> 00:08:17,280 Sean Aylmer: produce wallpaper? 155 00:08:18,750 --> 00:08:22,170 Richard Capp: Yeah. If I could say that without everybody getting out there and buying a wallpaper printer, but we're 156 00:08:23,910 --> 00:08:26,850 Richard Capp: obviously spent 10 years developing how we do it. But 157 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:30,600 Richard Capp: we're fortunate we can launch our product, we can design 158 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:34,500 Richard Capp: and launch it in Australia and everybody with their printers 159 00:08:34,590 --> 00:08:36,718 Richard Capp: around the world could be printing samples and we're filling 160 00:08:36,719 --> 00:08:40,980 Richard Capp: orders straight away. So it's quite easy for us now. 161 00:08:40,980 --> 00:08:44,670 Richard Capp: Obviously it wasn't 10 years ago, but we've got things 162 00:08:44,670 --> 00:08:45,960 Richard Capp: in place now that makes it pretty easy. 163 00:08:46,470 --> 00:08:49,050 Sean Aylmer: Okay. The final question is on design. So you do 164 00:08:49,110 --> 00:08:52,409 Sean Aylmer: use regional artists, I've been told, but is most of 165 00:08:52,410 --> 00:08:57,150 Sean Aylmer: the design out of your business or do you ask 166 00:08:57,150 --> 00:09:00,870 Sean Aylmer: influencers to give ideas or interior design people? How do 167 00:09:00,870 --> 00:09:01,680 Sean Aylmer: you get your designs? 168 00:09:02,370 --> 00:09:06,360 Richard Capp: Well, so now we have a studio in Brighton in 169 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:10,950 Richard Capp: the UK with our head designer, Bryce, who is my 170 00:09:10,950 --> 00:09:14,249 Richard Capp: brother and co- director, he's based in Brisbane, in Toowoomba, 171 00:09:14,490 --> 00:09:16,949 Richard Capp: and he obviously designs quite a lot, but also oversees 172 00:09:16,949 --> 00:09:22,170 Richard Capp: everything. And then we've partnered with about 60 brands and studios and 173 00:09:22,380 --> 00:09:26,728 Richard Capp: individual designers from all over the world. So everybody's got 174 00:09:26,730 --> 00:09:30,360 Richard Capp: a fairly unique kind of style. And then being an 175 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:32,639 Richard Capp: Australian business, we have got more and more Aussies on 176 00:09:32,639 --> 00:09:37,440 Richard Capp: there, and our leading artists are actually Australian now, which 177 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:40,588 Richard Capp: is good because it enables us to take these Australian 178 00:09:40,590 --> 00:09:43,350 Richard Capp: artists to the world and have something a little bit 179 00:09:43,350 --> 00:09:46,020 Richard Capp: different. So it's been working well. 180 00:09:46,679 --> 00:09:48,539 Sean Aylmer: Richard, thank you for talking to Fear & Greed. 181 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:49,708 Richard Capp: Thanks for having me. 182 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:53,338 Sean Aylmer: That was Richard Capp, founder of Milton and King. This 183 00:09:53,340 --> 00:09:55,590 Sean Aylmer: is the Fear & Greed Daily Interview. Join us every morning 184 00:09:55,590 --> 00:09:58,320 Sean Aylmer: for the full episode of Fear & Greed, Australia's best business 185 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:00,870 Sean Aylmer: podcast. I'm Sean Aylmer. Enjoy your day.