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Speaker 1: Welcome to Fearing Greed QNA, where we ask and answer

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Speaker 1: questions about business, investing, economics, politics and more. I'm Suan Alma.

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Speaker 1: Eighty six percent of private wealth professionals plan to increase

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Speaker 1: their private market investments this year, with diversification and performance

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Speaker 1: being the main motivators. It's one of the headline findings

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Speaker 1: from global investment manager Hamilton Lanes twenty twenty six private

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Speaker 1: Wealth survey, which also found millennials and gen X have

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Speaker 1: shown the greatest appetite for private markets. Remember this is

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Speaker 1: general information only and you should always seek advice tailor

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Speaker 1: to your circumstances before making investment decisions. Juan Delgado Morrera

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Speaker 1: is the co CEO of Hamilton Lane, which is a

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Speaker 1: great supporter of Fear and Greed. Juan, Welcome to Fear

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Speaker 1: and Greed q and a thank you.

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Speaker 2: Nice to me here, thank you for having us.

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Speaker 1: So first off, just a one oh one to people

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Speaker 1: who don't think a lot about private markets. What are

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Speaker 1: you referring to? What asset class as?

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Speaker 2: Are you sure? I mean, effectively, as you heard from

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Speaker 2: the from the survey, people when they think about private

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Speaker 2: markets nowaday are thinking of a cross section of subasse

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Speaker 2: classes that arrange all the way from infrastructure to buy

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Speaker 2: out going through private credit, and many focus specifically in

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Speaker 2: today's market venture and growth, which is very very topical.

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Speaker 2: So AI all things are to do with tech. That's

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Speaker 2: part of our private markets as well.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so I mean the other one, private equity is

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Speaker 1: like a very familiar term to us. Here, why are

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Speaker 1: private market suddenly so attractive to investors?

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Speaker 2: Do you think I wouldn't say suddenly, It's been going

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Speaker 2: on for a while, but I would recognize this an

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Speaker 2: element of today's market the last few years that are

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Speaker 2: making everybody really take a pause. And it is effectively

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Speaker 2: that the public markets have become more concentrated and dominated

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Speaker 2: by you know, the Max seven and a certain growth

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Speaker 2: that is a huge component of today's innovation with the

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Speaker 2: AI economy and taking off. And the investors are very

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Speaker 2: self aware that the diversification has reduced the number of

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Speaker 2: companies has shrunk, particularly in the US, and a lot

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Speaker 2: of areas of growth in the economy, energy, infrastructure, and

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Speaker 2: venture and growth are very clearly in the private markets domain.

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Speaker 2: And then you add to that that they can observe

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Speaker 2: the institutional investors having had a good experience in private

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Speaker 2: markets for many, many decades. An remember that these started

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Speaker 2: in the seventies with the large public pension funds in

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Speaker 2: the world, and so you've had for the last few years.

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Speaker 2: The investors, I would say, a pull factor come into

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Speaker 2: managers like us and say well, why can't we have

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Speaker 2: access to it? And that really is the backdrop. So

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Speaker 2: I would say it's diversification, is the returns and the

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Speaker 2: good experience of institutions, and is the fact that public

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Speaker 2: markets are perhaps more concentrated and they already have enough

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Speaker 2: of that.

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Speaker 1: As a push to I mean, I think I'm probably

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Speaker 1: saying what you just said in a different way, just

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Speaker 1: the idea that, certainly in Australia, in the listed space

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Speaker 1: and globally, passive investing has become more popular without a doubt.

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Speaker 1: Does that mean that the risk appetite for investors who

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Speaker 1: are diversifying there is a greater risk appetite within private

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Speaker 1: markets given that listed markets or public markets they're more passive.

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Speaker 2: Well, there's two sides to that. On the one hand,

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Speaker 2: probably yes, in the sense that there is more risk appetite.

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Speaker 2: There is the desire to capture more growth. Again, investors,

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Speaker 2: your listeners are watching the news and reading and seeing

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Speaker 2: that companies are staying private longer, and they check their

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Speaker 2: tickers and they can't really find the companies that they

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Speaker 2: recognize that they are using, the apps that they're using,

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Speaker 2: the new economy, the innovation, the projects they read about

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Speaker 2: in energy and transportations, So well, where are these companies

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Speaker 2: to be found? And the answer is in the private market.

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Speaker 2: So that's an element I would say of exposure. Second,

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Speaker 2: I think on the risk side. Interestingly, our wealth survey

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Speaker 2: Private wealth Survey found out that in the eighty percent

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Speaker 2: plus don't really see private markets or risk copondents don't

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Speaker 2: see private markets are having a higher risk than public

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Speaker 2: So it's interesting because this has changed over the years

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Speaker 2: that increasingly, but you are also younger investors understand the liquidity,

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Speaker 2: understand the different levels of exposure, and they see them

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Speaker 2: on the comparable risk return level. So this finding is

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Speaker 2: new and I think it's just better. So back to

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Speaker 2: your question, not sure that it's just about risk budget.

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Speaker 2: I think it is about the desire to really have

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Speaker 2: a complete exposure to the to the broader economy globally.

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Speaker 1: I want to come to the survey in a moment,

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Speaker 1: well at least to that the millennials and gen X

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Speaker 1: there that surprised me that they're increasingly interesting as me too. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: why do you think it is?

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Speaker 2: Well, I think we have to We've said a few

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Speaker 2: times as a firm that we just need to meet

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Speaker 2: our customers where they are and this is clearly the

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Speaker 2: future we have. Many of them are our employees, so

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Speaker 2: we learn from our employees and they bear in mind that.

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Speaker 2: And like you and I, they are very comfortable investing

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Speaker 2: in crypto and a number of things that are you know,

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Speaker 2: you and I have score relatively high on the risk

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Speaker 2: spectrum and they come to private markets with that of

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Speaker 2: risk budget in mind. And so again the survey results

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Speaker 2: are quite consistent. There's been an evolution and last year's

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Speaker 2: was training these directions, so they have much more comfortable

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Speaker 2: underlying with the understanding of the underlying business risks of

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Speaker 2: the specific companies and making their own decisions in that respect.

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Speaker 2: So customers want choice. Younger customers want choice, They want

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Speaker 2: to have access to this, and you see that also

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Speaker 2: from the development of private markets in fintech. A lot

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Speaker 2: of the customers of fintech and digital banks are really

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Speaker 2: demanding the platforms carry private markets access points because that's

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Speaker 2: where they are comfortable investing. They want to make all

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Speaker 2: their investment decisions through their phones and they want to

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Speaker 2: be able to have the choice.

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Speaker 1: Right, Is there a sense that it is actually the asset,

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Speaker 1: the underlying asset that matters as opposed to hbcuity or

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Speaker 1: venture capital or real assets.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely. Again, we're all learning for this development. And by

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Speaker 2: the way, this is quite different from private wealth because

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Speaker 2: this this individual right now asking questions about specific individual investors,

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Speaker 2: many of whom don't really make the private wealth kind

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Speaker 2: of cut off, right, So it's a different segment of

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Speaker 2: a market. Well, we're not as active, I think it

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Speaker 2: should it should be pointed out. But it's very clearly

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Speaker 2: the case that they are. They are really looking at companies, right,

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Speaker 2: They're there. They are focused companies. They don't either not

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Speaker 2: that interested in funds or or in or in MicroPlace

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Speaker 2: because they are they are combining index exposure with individual decisions.

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Speaker 1: So if a listener at the moment is listening to

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Speaker 1: Y Juan and thinking, so what shall I be looking

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Speaker 1: for in a partner in private markets, so there might

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Speaker 1: be Canva, which is a great Australian company which is unlisted,

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Speaker 1: has done very well, maybe we can't get into that.

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Speaker 1: Maybe we get at the zoos, which is a robot

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Speaker 1: TAKESI group companies like that, right, Obviously you need to

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Speaker 1: find someone who can invest in them. But more generically,

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Speaker 1: what should an investor look for in a partner in

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Speaker 1: private markets?

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Speaker 2: I think investors, let's go back to more generic, what

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Speaker 2: should any investor look for in private markets? And I

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Speaker 2: think they should be looking for the same characteristics they've

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Speaker 2: hopefully applied to any financial services decision and any investment decision,

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Speaker 2: which is they need to look for expertise, dedication, depth

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Speaker 2: of analysis, presence. We've been specialized in primarkets, as you know,

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Speaker 2: since we were born, right, So in today's offering, clients

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Speaker 2: are able to choose I would call bult bracket type

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Speaker 2: supermarket access points, and they're able to choose expertise and

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Speaker 2: domain expertise, and particularly on venture and growth, clients are

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Speaker 2: very aware of how much it matters to have domain

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Speaker 2: expertise and secul expertise. And then obviously clients today are

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Speaker 2: demanding structures again, choice in which platforms and which structures

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Speaker 2: that can access. So the point that you hear today

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Speaker 2: about access is emphasized compared to other cycles, because, as

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Speaker 2: I said earlier, clients want the choice, and in that respect,

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Speaker 2: the development you've seen in recent years in the industry

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Speaker 2: is really much in client demand. Back twenty years ago,

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Speaker 2: the dominant investors of these class were quite happy with

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Speaker 2: one flavor of access point, which was the traditional institutional

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Speaker 2: closed end funds, and that has changed. And I think

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Speaker 2: that's so combined expertise dedication with multiple access points. That's

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Speaker 2: what we think the customer is today.

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Speaker 1: What about the actual asset I mean we mentioned finn Tech,

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Speaker 1: then what about II. I kind of have a conversation

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Speaker 1: with you, Juan without asking about II and the prevalence

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Speaker 1: of opportunities in AI are you seeing I'm just interested

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Speaker 1: in your take on AI, the risks, the benefits, et cetera.

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Speaker 2: Important again here is I would say the investment question

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Speaker 2: of the day, not as in a binary way zero

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Speaker 2: or one. I think that's way overcome and it's about

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Speaker 2: ways to have exposure. And it plays entirely on the

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Speaker 2: theme that you started with, Sean, which is most investors

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Speaker 2: they are capturing a play on AI, which is on

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Speaker 2: the public markets where it impacts the l lens and

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Speaker 2: the hyper scales. On the infrastructure piece of it, and

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Speaker 2: they've done really well, and that's a component of the

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Speaker 2: AI exposure, in addition to which most investors are already

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Speaker 2: very keenly aware of the unlisted players in that category,

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Speaker 2: and beyond that on the innovation and the new companies

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Speaker 2: that appearing in the more application and services orienty part

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Speaker 2: of the development of AI, where everybody is now fiercely

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Speaker 2: kind of looking at using it in multiple ways and

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Speaker 2: transforming all different sectors. Two thirds out of that journey,

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Speaker 2: the last two they can't get exposure in a part

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Speaker 2: markets and that's really driving over half of the investing

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Speaker 2: from this in the server responses that you mentioned, the

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Speaker 2: service that you mentioned, kind of half of that interest

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Speaker 2: is in venture capital and growth specifically because of these

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Speaker 2: AI dominance, because of how much of that consequence is

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Speaker 2: not captured by the private markets. We are probably poised

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Speaker 2: to see the largest IPOs ever in history of mankind.

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Speaker 2: And they are AI related companies that are private and

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Speaker 2: will stay private as long as they can. And I

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Speaker 2: think the clients are very investors are very very conscious

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Speaker 2: of this broadly.

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Speaker 1: I mean the big risk I always think in private

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Speaker 1: it is liquidity, Like you have to go in with

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Speaker 1: your eyes open, because it's not like buying and selling

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Speaker 1: every day. So having said that, private capital seems to

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Speaker 1: have matured a lot over times and say secondaries and

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Speaker 1: the ability to recycle capital, and that I'm just know

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Speaker 1: for listeners who are thinking about getting into this, how

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Speaker 1: big a risk is liquidity and what's the industry doing

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Speaker 1: to so you don't just have to sell an asset

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Speaker 1: to get some sort of return.

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Speaker 2: Well, I quite like the way your friend is sean

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Speaker 2: in that, on the one hand, in liquidity is a feature,

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Speaker 2: not a bug. You're making money superior returns because you're

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Speaker 2: owning companies for a longer period of time and you

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Speaker 2: have a longer time horizon, and that is not to

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Speaker 2: be replaced or removed because that with the alignment of

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Speaker 2: management and innovation, fundamental innovation is what drives superior returns.

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Speaker 2: So that's not to be removed. And I like how

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Speaker 2: you said it. But the asset class has actually developed

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Speaker 2: over the years shorter duration or shorter maturity types of investing.

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Speaker 2: Credit is one of them. Whatever you think about today's junction,

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Speaker 2: which we can debate, but specifically, secondaries has emerged as

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Speaker 2: a mature way to both seek liquidity if your institution

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Speaker 2: that wants to manage exposure also have a shorter experience

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Speaker 2: of private markets returns if you're a private investor and

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Speaker 2: want to capture more the buying and back end of

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Speaker 2: the holding periods in your investment. And I think by

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Speaker 2: the way that innovation will continue, it's effectively creating pockets

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Speaker 2: of liquidity at the appropriate level of return for investors

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Speaker 2: that have shorter maturity. Now underneath that, I think it's

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Speaker 2: important to remind every listener that the average holding period

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Speaker 2: of most of these companies remains about five years. So

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Speaker 2: therefore there's going to be there's going to be some

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Speaker 2: return left on using liquidity that is available to you,

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Speaker 2: and that is absolutely appropriate and it is the future

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Speaker 2: of the overall as a class evolution one.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for talking to fearing greed, my pleasure.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for having me.

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Speaker 1: That was one Delgado mareram Co, CEO of Hamilton Lane,

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Speaker 1: which is a great supporter of fearing greed. Remember this

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Speaker 1: is general information only you should always say adviced hell

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Speaker 1: to your circumstances before making investment decisions. I'm Shanaoma and

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Speaker 1: this is fearing greed.

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Speaker 2: You and I