Speaker 1: I'll get a team.
Speaker 2: Welcome to another installment of the show, well, in fact
Speaker 2: the shows. It is, of course The Self Help Antidote
Speaker 2: with Robert Capuccio, and it is The You Project with
Speaker 2: Fatty Harps, Jumbo Me.
Speaker 1: It's us, Hi, buddy.
Speaker 3: What's going on? Hops? If you're Fatty Hops? I feel
Speaker 3: really bad about myself. We're off to a horrible start.
Speaker 2: Fatty Harps is literally gone. But well no, yeah, but
Speaker 2: just that version of me lives on. I still feel
Speaker 2: strongly connected to Jumbo. I should probably let it go,
Speaker 2: but I kind of like him. I have fun memories
Speaker 2: of him.
Speaker 1: There was a lot of yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: It wasn't all. It was more bittersweet than bitter. So anyway,
Speaker 2: how are you.
Speaker 1: You're in New York. Are you seeing your mum or something?
Speaker 1: What's going on?
Speaker 3: Ah? Yeah, she needs she needs a little bit of help.
Speaker 3: So the missus are also known as Amy and the
Speaker 3: Cat is out here. So I'm actually out here visiting them.
Speaker 3: They're going to be out here on a little bit
Speaker 3: of more of a long term basis than me. So
Speaker 3: I'm back in Brooklyn, back in colle Island.
Speaker 1: What is it like for you being back there?
Speaker 2: Because you kind of grew up there, right and speaking
Speaker 2: a bittersweet which we were one minute ago, would is
Speaker 2: it bittersweet for you to go back to the place
Speaker 2: where there were lots of peaks and troughs to put
Speaker 2: it mildly, I.
Speaker 3: Just recently discussed this with my therapist. Actually, So yeah,
Speaker 3: the the apartment is kind of weird because a lot
Speaker 3: of really bad shit, just to put it, simply, went
Speaker 3: down in this place, like in this room I'm sitting in.
Speaker 3: It was not filled with good memories, and a lot
Speaker 3: of the memories were absolutely terrifying. But now it's kind
Speaker 3: of mixed in with this dysfunctional family unit that we
Speaker 3: have that kind of feels all right. You know, I've
Speaker 3: got my wife, the cat, you know, mom, and it's
Speaker 3: a very different dynamic. And I think it's you know,
Speaker 3: she has been seeking redemption, which I personally believe. By
Speaker 3: me saying I believe it doesn't mean I believe this
Speaker 3: is right for everybody. I believe people who sincerely seek
Speaker 3: redemption should have a chance of getting it.
Speaker 2: Without without people, sorry, without opening that door to wide
Speaker 2: and going into specifics. So has your mom acknowledged stuff
Speaker 2: to you and said, you know, or is it just
Speaker 2: don't talk about it, but let's just do better.
Speaker 3: Now she acknowledged it, and this is kind of a
Speaker 3: it's got a weird answer. She's acknowledged it as much
Speaker 3: as she is mentally capable of acknowledging it, as you
Speaker 3: well know. And I don't know how many listeners know,
Speaker 3: but now they know she has a lot of or
Speaker 3: a few developmental problems, which also comes with, on my end,
Speaker 3: a bit of grace, you know, like we sometimes do
Speaker 3: the best we can with the resources we have, and
Speaker 3: she didn't have a lot of external internal resources. So
Speaker 3: as much as she can acknowledge what happened, she has,
Speaker 3: and that's all I'm really prepared to ask from her,
Speaker 3: you know, because there was a time where that that
Speaker 3: kind of didn't sit well with me, and it's like,
Speaker 3: what does that? What does that do for anybody in
Speaker 3: their lives? Emotionally? What am I going to do, like
Speaker 3: punish her repeatedly? That's not That's not the person I
Speaker 3: want to be, And I don't think that's very healthy
Speaker 3: for me as an individual either. It's much better to
Speaker 3: hit the reset button and move forward with whatever type
Speaker 3: of family we have right now, Whilst there's still time
Speaker 3: to do that.
Speaker 1: In my mind.
Speaker 3: Now coming back to the neighborhood is different because this
Speaker 3: neighborhood could be a bit scary growing up in Coney
Speaker 3: Island back in the nineteen in these eighties, like if
Speaker 3: you've ever seen the movie The Warriors, Now, it wasn't
Speaker 3: exactly like that. Gangs in New York didn't have their
Speaker 3: own special uniforms, but it was a really rough place
Speaker 3: to be. And now it's kind of cool. I kind
Speaker 3: of like the vibe in Cornee Island. It's like, yeah,
Speaker 3: it's like it's not a bad place to be from
Speaker 3: Like they've opened up the Freak Bar, which is kind
Speaker 3: of a bar where they opened up like the Freak Show.
Speaker 3: I don't know what's up there. When they said we
Speaker 3: have a freak show here, I thought they were referring
Speaker 3: to me as one of their patrons. But they used
Speaker 3: to have kind of like in the early nineteen hundred
Speaker 3: it's Coney Island was the pre eminent like resort and
Speaker 3: attraction place on the East Coast in the US, and
Speaker 3: they would have all these like weird shows and everything.
Speaker 3: So all these attractions, I think they're they're opening up
Speaker 3: that element which is kind of eccentric. It's kind of different,
Speaker 3: but it is. It is kind of cool, you know,
Speaker 3: the other day, just hanging out and you know, they
Speaker 3: had a local local cat belongs to the pub, came
Speaker 3: sat down next to me, hung out with me the
Speaker 3: whole time. So me and my two my wife and
Speaker 3: my ex girlfriend actually, so it was kind of an
Speaker 3: interesting afternoon.
Speaker 1: You make a good point. That is very interesting.
Speaker 2: I think you had a fascinating, albeit painful childhood. But
Speaker 2: but like when you deal with or when you're now,
Speaker 2: you're an adult, and you're an educated, smart, you know,
Speaker 2: somewhat fully operational, functional adult. I say somewhat for both
Speaker 2: of us. And the trauma is real, and the experiences
Speaker 2: that you went through were real, and some people would go, oh,
Speaker 2: you have a reason to be angry or resentful or
Speaker 2: and probably so, but there's no I think it's not
Speaker 2: like there's a set three step protocol that's going to
Speaker 2: work for everyone. And you know, so, like you say,
Speaker 2: for me, personally, I'm doing this, and I think I would,
Speaker 2: I would try to be. I mean, I was very privileged.
Speaker 2: I had a recentably great childhood compared to yours. But
Speaker 2: I think if I'd been through the trauma that you'd
Speaker 2: been through, and I would hope that I would be
Speaker 2: like you in that I'd say, well, I can't change
Speaker 2: any of that or undo any of that, so you know,
Speaker 2: let's not keep putting kerosene on that flame. Let's like
Speaker 2: move ahead mentally and emotionally.
Speaker 3: One of the things I really wish I had done,
Speaker 3: and it's one of those one of those things that
Speaker 3: you hear, but I never had an interest in doing it.
Speaker 3: I wish I kept a personal journal throughout my life,
Speaker 3: because one I I was never at this point, you know,
Speaker 3: ten years ago, especially twenty years ago, which seems like yesterday,
Speaker 3: so it took me a long time to get here.
Speaker 3: And what I suspect would happen if I would look
Speaker 3: through my journal, or anybody who kept a journal over
Speaker 3: the span of multiple decades would see it would almost
Speaker 3: be as if that journal was written by different people.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and kind.
Speaker 3: Of like a bibliography of all these people's experiences, because
Speaker 3: you're not the same person. And how I looked at
Speaker 3: the world and used or tried to use my experiences
Speaker 3: both good and bad, mostly bad, to shape my reality
Speaker 3: and shape my sense of identity. It shifted over the years.
Speaker 3: So in my twenties, what I would say in this
Speaker 3: conversation was markedly different than what I would say in
Speaker 3: my thirties and forties, and now my fifties. I kind of,
Speaker 3: in some ways of come full circle. The ways have
Speaker 3: a very unique perspective. But I was like three or
Speaker 3: four different people through the span of my adult life.
Speaker 3: So when you're talking about, you know, your childhood or
Speaker 3: or any base in your life, what I'm curious about, great,
Speaker 3: is there something that you used to believe, like fevoritely
Speaker 3: believe that served you that you no longer believe to
Speaker 3: be true.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm, there's I used to think that I used
Speaker 2: to truly believe that I wasn't good enough.
Speaker 1: Obviously I didn't.
Speaker 2: I didn't choose that as a belief to empower me
Speaker 2: or to you know, but I didn't. I I always
Speaker 2: felt somewhat unworthy, inadequate, and I, you know, I feel
Speaker 2: like this is a version of everyone. So this is
Speaker 2: no groundbreaking kind of revelation.
Speaker 1: So I think the.
Speaker 2: Self limiting and flawed belief that I had was that
Speaker 2: if I could only do enough stuff, achieve enough stuff,
Speaker 2: get enough stuff, look a certain way then I would
Speaker 2: be lovable and people would love me, and I'd be
Speaker 2: accepted and I'd belong. And this is weird because it's
Speaker 2: not like I had your childhood right, but this was
Speaker 2: truly people were pretty good to me. I just had
Speaker 2: this overwhelming you know, there was times when you know,
Speaker 2: being the fattest kid and all of that, didn't have
Speaker 2: great social moments.
Speaker 1: But I think the belief that I had was that if.
Speaker 2: I can do enough stuff in my external world, if
Speaker 2: I can own this or drive that, or look like
Speaker 2: that or have this girlfriend who's that gorgeous, And I
Speaker 2: know this is all very superficial and shallow, but I'm
Speaker 2: just being vulnerable and honest, that I would be the
Speaker 2: insecurity would go, the self doubt would go, I'd be confident,
Speaker 2: and obviously all of those things you know, not true,
Speaker 2: and so essentially trying to fix internal stuff with external stuff,
Speaker 2: you know, if I can, if I can, and very
Speaker 2: worried about or not worried, but maybe very aware about.
Speaker 2: Ironic that I'm doing a PhD in metaperception, which is
Speaker 2: understanding how others understand you, but I was quite worried
Speaker 2: about what people thought of me, how I was perceived
Speaker 2: and whether or not I was this enough or that enough.
Speaker 2: And I always thought that or I guess I just
Speaker 2: had a subconscious belief that I could work my way
Speaker 2: into that status, you know where if I did enough
Speaker 2: stuff and got enough stuff and you know, then that
Speaker 2: would that would be the outcome is in a peace
Speaker 2: and fulfillment and joy and all of that. And obviously
Speaker 2: that's you know, they're separate things and they may or
Speaker 2: may not live in the same person, but yeah, it's
Speaker 2: and just being able to, like I think, as you
Speaker 2: get older, you know, question the stories that you have
Speaker 2: about you know, like, well that's an interesting story Craig
Speaker 2: that if you do that then people will like him more.
Speaker 2: Great story, bullshit, but great story. You know, Like where
Speaker 2: do these stories come from? And I have a little
Speaker 2: funny anecdote and that is the other day I put
Speaker 2: up a picture of my godson, Mitchell, and he's just
Speaker 2: become a lawyer, and there was a photo of him
Speaker 2: outside the Supreme Court in Melbourne, which is a big deal.
Speaker 2: And I put up this photo and I said, essentially
Speaker 2: this is on Instagram. I don't have any kids, but
Speaker 2: I do have a godson, so I don't have kids
Speaker 2: to boast about, but I want to boast about my godson.
Speaker 2: Here he is, This is Mitchell, you know, blah blah blah,
Speaker 2: and it's just this and he's tall and he's young,
Speaker 2: and he's good looking and he's a really good human and.
Speaker 1: I think you've got a panther in front of your camera.
Speaker 2: And anyway, what was funny was so I essentially put
Speaker 2: up a photo of a kid or a young man
Speaker 2: that most people don't know, and it got nearly two
Speaker 2: hundred thousand views that photo, and I'm thinking, what is
Speaker 2: amazing is like what still gets attention is young, gorgeous
Speaker 2: people like and we say things like, which is true?
Speaker 3: That's so rid?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like that.
Speaker 2: I think it's I don't know, it's something like one
Speaker 2: hundred and eighty five or ninety thousand views at the moment.
Speaker 2: But all I did was put up a picture of
Speaker 2: a young man that nobody knows, and it went nuts.
Speaker 2: And I was thinking about that, and like a bunch
Speaker 2: of people save that photo, like hundreds of people save
Speaker 2: the photo.
Speaker 1: And I'm thinking, we still live in a.
Speaker 2: World, for better or worse, where if you're attractive, you're
Speaker 2: going to get lots of attention, and I think that
Speaker 2: that teaches young people potentially a message that's not great
Speaker 2: for a range of reasons, but nonetheless it is still true.
Speaker 2: You know, I put up a photo of me, it's
Speaker 2: like there's no it's like three people look at it,
Speaker 2: you know. So, yeah, it's interesting all that external stuff,
Speaker 2: internal stuff.
Speaker 3: Well, it makes sense because when you're sharing all of this.
Speaker 3: There's three things that stood out in my mind, and
Speaker 3: one you talked about hiding grow up, you know, with
Speaker 3: the same experiences you grew up with. And you know,
Speaker 3: I don't necessarily think somebody needs extreme trauma in order
Speaker 3: to leverage that and do something with it. I think
Speaker 3: we all have the same basic human needs. Where you
Speaker 3: talk about I felt this feeling to a degree of inadequacy.
Speaker 3: I think we all have those same insecurities, those same needs,
Speaker 3: and a lot of the things that we desire have
Speaker 3: a lot of interconnection. But it's important and it's relevant
Speaker 3: to share those stories regardless of the background, because what
Speaker 3: the differentiator is and what we learned from is how
Speaker 3: do you interpret that? Like what does that mean? Right?
Speaker 3: So in your case, it's like, Okay, if I go
Speaker 3: out and I achieve stuff and by achieving stuff, I
Speaker 3: can surround myself with external embulance that maybe I interpret
Speaker 3: is what separates me from other people, which I can
Speaker 3: relate to. Because you talked about physical attractiveness, I was
Speaker 3: not physically attractive. That my face was contorted, you know,
Speaker 3: my teeth, my gums, I was physically deformed growing up.
Speaker 3: So for me, beauty and external things is what I
Speaker 3: perceived as the things that made other people valuable to
Speaker 3: one another. So I completely get that. So you might
Speaker 3: think I need to get to work and go build something.
Speaker 3: Somebody else might interpret that as I'll never be good enough.
Speaker 3: So what's the use of even trying to do anything.
Speaker 3: I'll just get by same same feeling, different interpretation, completely
Speaker 3: different outcome, and how it shapes your reality. And the
Speaker 3: third thing that is interesting is you were talking about
Speaker 3: your godson and how it made you feel forget like
Speaker 3: how everybody else interprets it, or Wow, this person's really attractive.
Speaker 3: It catches my attention. There's meaning for you there. So
Speaker 3: I think when you look at the best times in
Speaker 3: your life, either in the past or you create this
Speaker 3: future vision of what would what would good look like
Speaker 3: in the future, what would engage you look like. What
Speaker 3: would success look like. I would like to propose that
Speaker 3: for the vast majority of people, not everybody, but for
Speaker 3: the vast majority of us, it involves others. Something that
Speaker 3: you build, who you building it with? Who are you
Speaker 3: building it for? So I think in your background, whether
Speaker 3: it was really difficult circumstances or it was circumstances that
Speaker 3: kind of gave framework for the things that we all
Speaker 3: struggle with in the human experience. Good question is how
Speaker 3: can I use this to deepen my connection with those
Speaker 3: around me? Because I think that's what really matters at
Speaker 3: the end of the day. I think that's you know,
Speaker 3: like Matthew Lieberman, I just wrote something about this. He
Speaker 3: would propose that our brains are neurobiologically wired for one another.
Speaker 3: And he's far from alone in that. Me growing up,
Speaker 3: I was talking about this with my wife the other day.
Speaker 3: Nobody liked me as a kid, even as a very
Speaker 3: young kid, like five years old. We used to do
Speaker 3: this thing. We were walking. How the conversation started. We
Speaker 3: were walking by a park. It's like, oh, okay, Seabury's Park,
Speaker 3: you know, like when we were all like five six
Speaker 3: They used to put this in like the dance festival,
Speaker 3: you know, like when you do those things and the
Speaker 3: parents come out in the middle of the summer, they're
Speaker 3: clapping and they're like, oh fucking hell, it's so hot
Speaker 3: in humid when's this thing going to be over? And
Speaker 3: none of the kids wanted to dance near me or
Speaker 3: hold my hand because I looked different than everybody else.
Speaker 3: Nobody looked like me growing up. And I think how
Speaker 3: that shaped me and connected me to people, amongst many
Speaker 3: other painful but formative experiences, was you know, I had
Speaker 3: a disdain for people who are ostracized, the mission treated
Speaker 3: because they don't look like somebody else or how somebody
Speaker 3: thinks that person should look, because I know how much
Speaker 3: that hurts and how many presuppositions and how much cruelty
Speaker 3: is built into something like that. Because I didn't fit
Speaker 3: in with anyone, because it was absolutely no when I
Speaker 3: looked like I was like, Am I glad that I
Speaker 3: was going through my childhood, my teenage years physically deformed? No?
Speaker 3: If I can go back in time, but I do
Speaker 3: it again, Probably not. Am I grateful in retrospect that
Speaker 3: it happened? Yeah, because it opened me up to seeing
Speaker 3: people in a way that I might not have been
Speaker 3: able to say, so, you know, it's that feeling that
Speaker 3: we experience. But then there's that's interpretation and who does
Speaker 3: that make you? What identity emerges out of that story,
Speaker 3: out of that interpretation.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 2: Just backpeddling a little bit, that idea of the importance
Speaker 2: of social connection and you know, like that, like we
Speaker 2: want to belong, right, we want to be part of
Speaker 2: something that's not just us, something bigger than us, where
Speaker 2: we feel.
Speaker 1: Valued and needed and seen and validated.
Speaker 2: And it's funny because I think I think, I don't know,
Speaker 2: I was going to say for you, and I definitely
Speaker 2: for me. I think maybe for you, But I think
Speaker 2: part of that is my work where even now where
Speaker 2: although not in real time or in real time, we're connecting,
Speaker 2: but you and I are connecting with thousands of people
Speaker 2: who are going to listen to this. And for me,
Speaker 2: apart from the responsibility of hopefully sharing some information and
Speaker 2: ideas that might be of value to people and potentially
Speaker 2: create some kind of positive outcome for them, just the
Speaker 2: idea of being in the middle a big conversation. You know,
Speaker 2: I enjoy that.
Speaker 1: I enjoy.
Speaker 2: Like I sat down with a guy this morning, called
Speaker 2: Scotty Douglas, who's a paramedic who's been on the show recently,
Speaker 2: who's just right now one of my favorite people. Is
Speaker 2: just a beautiful human being. And he's like he said,
Speaker 2: he said to me, I really want to thank you for,
Speaker 2: you know, letting me spend time with you.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, shut the fuck up.
Speaker 2: It's like, I'm not letting you spend time like we're
Speaker 2: hanging out. I like you, I said, I'm I'm not
Speaker 2: sitting with you to do you a favor. I like you.
Speaker 1: I want to spend time with you. I get I
Speaker 1: don't know what you get, but I get plenty, you know.
Speaker 1: And it's just being with people where there.
Speaker 2: Is that that love and that connection and that lack
Speaker 2: of agenda or strategy, like we're not here for a
Speaker 2: strategic reason, you know, we're just connected.
Speaker 1: And I think that's you know, I think no matter.
Speaker 2: What you do or what you grow, or what you
Speaker 2: what you earn or own or have like an existence
Speaker 2: without that deep connection with other humans.
Speaker 1: Life's tough. Life's tough.
Speaker 2: And I mean, you know, we've spoken, You and I
Speaker 2: have spoken about the impact of socialization or lack thereof,
Speaker 2: on physical health, longevity, health span. You know, it's like
Speaker 2: humans actually to be healthy, and not just emotionally and
Speaker 2: mentally healthy, but physically healthy, we need we need love,
Speaker 2: we need connection, we need belonging. You know, it's it's
Speaker 2: such a huge component of who we're meant to be.
Speaker 3: It's one of the things that concerns me where disagreement
Speaker 3: turns into disdain. And I mean you could you could
Speaker 3: maybe say that tribalism, people feel disconnected, feel marginalized, and
Speaker 3: then they find consensus within a group that adds to
Speaker 3: a sense of belonging. Maybe not in a constructive way,
Speaker 3: but as a society, I feel like we're getting a
Speaker 3: bit too fragmented in quite scary ways. Because you're right,
Speaker 3: I couldn't agree with you more of this, and there's
Speaker 3: not a lack of research to show it's not just
Speaker 3: our mental health, it's it's our sense of physical well
Speaker 3: being that's at stake when we live in in in
Speaker 3: fragmented relationships. I mean, if you do a root cause
Speaker 3: analysis of anything anybody wants, well, you know I want
Speaker 3: to really start a business. Well why is that important
Speaker 3: to you? Oh? So you know one day, you know,
Speaker 3: when I operationalize it you know, and scalable, I can
Speaker 3: have freedom. Okay, well why is that important to you?
Speaker 3: Al go different places? But why why? Why why? When
Speaker 3: you get to the end of that, again, not for everybody,
Speaker 3: but for the vast majority of us, it's relationships. It's
Speaker 3: so there's an intersection between you and me, and I
Speaker 3: love that relational convergence point where means in the ends
Speaker 3: meet and they're inseparable and indiscernible from one another, because
Speaker 3: that's where I believe happiness lies. And longest running A
Speaker 3: longitudinal study in history out of Harvard started in nineteen
Speaker 3: thirty eight, shows that as well, regardless of the socioeconomic background.
Speaker 3: Now again these were like white men. It was nineteen
Speaker 3: thirty eight, so this study does have its flaws, but
Speaker 3: across the board, it was not even the number, but
Speaker 3: the quality of relationships that contributed most to happiness, and
Speaker 3: happiness is a major contributor to well being. I mean,
Speaker 3: can you say you're living in a state of well
Speaker 3: being and being miserable? Probably not.
Speaker 1: So.
Speaker 2: I think about the most memorable and meaningful things that
Speaker 2: I've done in my life was always with other people.
Speaker 2: Like I've individually achieved some good things, but I look
Speaker 2: back at like, right, you've written books.
Speaker 1: I've written books.
Speaker 2: I go, yeah, that's not even in the top fifty.
Speaker 2: It's like good or this podcast. I love the fact
Speaker 2: that we've got this, But it's not so much just
Speaker 2: having the podcast.
Speaker 1: For me, which is good, but it's more about that.
Speaker 2: The podcast is a conduit to what we're doing now,
Speaker 2: which is connecting and understanding and loving and serving and
Speaker 2: like the.
Speaker 1: Or when I like, the most meaningful moment.
Speaker 2: In my life in the last year, and the last
Speaker 2: year's been, there's been some nice milestones and boxes ticked
Speaker 2: and some things that you could go, wow, that was
Speaker 2: the most meaningful, memorable, powerful and simultaneously painful and beautiful
Speaker 2: was me sitting with a lady that I call my
Speaker 2: second mum when she was in her last hours of life,
Speaker 2: you know, and being with her for just her and
Speaker 2: eye in a room for an hour. And I would
Speaker 2: not swap that time or that memory or that moment
Speaker 2: or that connection.
Speaker 1: Like it's.
Speaker 2: It's like, I'm the bloody wordsmith. I can't adequately describe
Speaker 2: what happened. I can't adequately describe what it means to
Speaker 2: me right, and I'm being clumsy right now, But it's like,
Speaker 2: oh yeah, and I couldn't. I still can't really explain it.
Speaker 2: But I'm like in that moment, I was I was
Speaker 2: sitting there thinking.
Speaker 1: This is it? Like this is for me what it's about?
Speaker 3: So sorry about that.
Speaker 1: That's all right. We had a little moment there everyone.
Speaker 2: Bobby had a cat astrophe that he needed to attend to.
Speaker 3: Make. Cat's highest priority is people as well, and he
Speaker 3: was cut off from the rest of the people in
Speaker 3: the house.
Speaker 2: So anyway, anyway, that was that moment in time. But
Speaker 2: it's like, yeah, it's like you look back at what
Speaker 2: is significant, and you and I both had some good
Speaker 2: I would say achievements, but none of that really when
Speaker 2: I when I lie in bed and I think about
Speaker 2: what matters and what's meaningful, you know, it's it ain't that.
Speaker 2: It ain't you know, doing a gig talking of four
Speaker 2: thousand people at an event, which was very cool, but
Speaker 2: it's not It's nothing compared to like I would I
Speaker 2: wouldn't trade that hour.
Speaker 1: With my second mum for anything, you know, and.
Speaker 3: A thing for most of us, that story is in
Speaker 3: one way share perform the same Like imagine yourself sitting
Speaker 3: in a rocket chair looking at the window. You're well
Speaker 3: into your eighties, you're reflecting on your life. What's been
Speaker 3: most precious to you, what do you value most like,
Speaker 3: what is really present as you're in the final stages
Speaker 3: of your life and you're reflecting on what did this
Speaker 3: all mean to me? It's going to involve other people.
Speaker 3: I think it's going to be just the simple pleasures
Speaker 3: and it's going to be that connection, those relationships, things
Speaker 3: that you shared with others, and I think you know
Speaker 3: that takes things that we struggle with. I don't want
Speaker 3: to minimize it because, like we said in the last episode,
Speaker 3: there are so many variables that go into things like burnout.
Speaker 3: But when all things being absolutely equal, when it comes
Speaker 3: to resilience, when it comes to stress management, when it
Speaker 3: comes to joy, when it comes to the frustration of
Speaker 3: the fact that there are so many variables that impact
Speaker 3: outcomes and you could do all the work and do
Speaker 3: everything right, and you know this, and you know, maybe
Speaker 3: many of our listeners know this. When you have your
Speaker 3: own business, it's like there are things that you can't
Speaker 3: even predict, and yeah, it's it's all going to go
Speaker 3: wrong at the worst possible time. Murphy's well, Murphy is
Speaker 3: an asshole, by the way, But moving on to Murphy,
Speaker 3: when it's becomes about people, there's a lot of pleasure
Speaker 3: in what am I contributing, what's the effort I'm putting in.
Speaker 3: How does that connect me to others? How do I
Speaker 3: share things with others? And I think that kind of
Speaker 3: inoculates you, because it's worth doing for its own sake,
Speaker 3: independent of the outcome.
Speaker 2: Like I think, you know, like I've always been like
Speaker 2: a car dude and a motorbike dude, and not in
Speaker 2: a way where I want to show off force. I
Speaker 2: don't care if people know what I have or don't have,
Speaker 2: and I don't have a fence you can these days
Speaker 2: at all. But but I you know, from when I
Speaker 2: was eighteen to when I was I don't know, fifty,
Speaker 2: I had so many cars, so many bikes, and I
Speaker 2: loved all of that. And they were all fancy or
Speaker 2: expensive by any means. But I was always turning over
Speaker 2: cars and I got a lot of you know.
Speaker 1: Temporary joy and dada. Anyway, when I was I don't know.
Speaker 2: Probably fifteen years ago now, I bought my mama car
Speaker 2: and oh my god, I'm like, oh, this is this
Speaker 2: is where actual joy lives and she had no idea
Speaker 2: she was getting a new car. And I drove it
Speaker 2: up to her place.
Speaker 1: So it had like.
Speaker 2: Two hundred kilomb or one hundred and fifty kilometers on it,
Speaker 2: and that's only because I had to drive it up
Speaker 2: to the country and I had this I stopped three
Speaker 2: hundred meters from her house and cleaned it like it
Speaker 2: was already, you know, but just so it was perfect.
Speaker 2: And I had this big sticky bow which was the
Speaker 2: size of you know, your upper body, like this great
Speaker 2: big bow which.
Speaker 1: I put on the bonnet or the hood of.
Speaker 2: The car, and I you know, and just seeing like
Speaker 2: the impact that that had on my mum, the joy
Speaker 2: and the happiness and my dad, and I'm like, oh,
Speaker 2: who knew like all this other stuff where there's a
Speaker 2: little bit of temporary me joy, but actually getting a
Speaker 2: car for someone else, and it was a cheap, little
Speaker 2: it was a new car, but it was like a
Speaker 2: little Suzuki Swift.
Speaker 1: It wasn't a Lamborghini.
Speaker 2: But just I'm like, oh, this is buying stuff for
Speaker 2: me actually doesn't do it. It does it for like
Speaker 2: a day and a half, but buying stuff for someone
Speaker 2: else giving having that foot, Yeah, like I went, I
Speaker 2: learned a little. I think, you know, you theoretically know things,
Speaker 2: but then you experientially are in the middle of it
Speaker 2: and you're like, oh, yeah, that's right, that's right.
Speaker 3: This is it. It's interesting because so much of our philosophy
Speaker 3: and society is and you know, there's there's a lot
Speaker 3: of necessity around this is to build. You focus on,
Speaker 3: you focus inward. But then when you take points like
Speaker 3: this like reflection, yeah, no, it's it's been when it's
Speaker 3: when I've done the opposite. It's why I focused on
Speaker 3: things that I valued, in people that I valued, and
Speaker 3: everything outside of me. That one made me really happy.
Speaker 3: And I don't know if people listening to this can relate,
Speaker 3: but the irony is is when I focused on everything
Speaker 3: outside of me, I learned the most about who I
Speaker 3: am and what's really important to me. It's almost like
Speaker 3: I was created in that interaction with other people.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, And it's like when you focus on giving,
Speaker 2: not getting, so you you it's in the giving that
Speaker 2: you get anyway, like you don't even need to think
Speaker 2: about the because the getting comes through the giving and serving.
Speaker 2: It's like, oh, even when and not that you know,
Speaker 2: I'm not suggesting you do that strategically, but I know
Speaker 2: that me trying to make or me potentially making someone
Speaker 2: happy or feel good or giving them a moment of
Speaker 2: joy or whatever gives them both pleasure and me a
Speaker 2: level of pleasure that I couldn't achieve on my own anyway,
Speaker 2: because whatever I do, you know, whatever I get or
Speaker 2: you know, it's like, you know, even if I look
Speaker 2: at something completely fucking superficial, like my Instagram numbers, and
Speaker 2: I go oh, oh oh, and then for about seven minutes,
Speaker 2: I feel good, and then I'm like, yeah, but I want.
Speaker 1: More, you know what I mean. I want more people.
Speaker 1: I want higher numbers. I don't want X, I want
Speaker 1: three X. And I get three X.
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, thank goodness, now I'm here, but five
Speaker 2: X would be good. You know, it's like fairy flaws,
Speaker 2: emotional fairy flaws.
Speaker 1: It just melts.
Speaker 3: Something happened to my wife and I the other day,
Speaker 3: and it's one of those things that it's seemingly inconsequential
Speaker 3: where you might not even notice it, but for me,
Speaker 3: it was a major deal. So it really Doctor Martin
Speaker 3: Seligman's book Flourish, he talks about one of the simplest
Speaker 3: things you can do to dramatically change your sense of
Speaker 3: well being in a very short period of time is
Speaker 3: random senseless acts of kindness. Is be kind to other
Speaker 3: people because of the psychological and the biochemical impact it
Speaker 3: has on you. And it's just the effects of it,
Speaker 3: like you pointed out, are immediate. So we went to
Speaker 3: this place, what's it called Brighton Beach right over here.
Speaker 3: It's called like, I don't know, Joe's postal or anything.
Speaker 3: It's just a post place to ship packages. And there
Speaker 3: this guy who was working behind the counter, and it
Speaker 3: was one of these things that I think they only
Speaker 3: took cash for for some weird reason, if I'm remembering
Speaker 3: this right. But that's not the point of this. So
Speaker 3: we didn't have any cash, and the guy looks a us.
Speaker 3: He's like, you know what, don't even worry about it now,
Speaker 3: he's never seen us before. It's not like we're consistent customers.
Speaker 3: First time we ever rocked up. He said, just I'm
Speaker 3: going to do this for you, and you know, if
Speaker 3: you ever get a chance to come back in here,
Speaker 3: you'll pay me then, and thought, wow, that's unusually nice.
Speaker 3: So we went back today to make sure one we
Speaker 3: use this person for packages now, like why wouldn't we?
Speaker 3: And we paid him the money back. The guy strikes
Speaker 3: up a conversation with us and he's just so lovely
Speaker 3: and he's sharing these experiences and we walked out of
Speaker 3: there and our day was better. And I was thinking
Speaker 3: and discussing this from my wife. A lot of times
Speaker 3: you talk about kindness, and you talk about people who
Speaker 3: are living a purpose and making a difference in the world.
Speaker 3: You think about, Okay, you know, I've got a soup
Speaker 3: kitchen and I'm feeding the homeless and things like that
Speaker 3: are amazing or it's these big gestures, but you know what,
Speaker 3: it's people like this within your community. Imagine you have
Speaker 3: a community built with people who are kind, they're invested,
Speaker 3: and they act on that in very tangible ways. And
Speaker 3: he created not only trust, not only a new customer,
Speaker 3: but we came back, we paid him the money, and
Speaker 3: that started to create a relationship. If you're surrounded by
Speaker 3: interactions like this, you would be healthier, you would be happier,
Speaker 3: and you yourself would probably be kinder. So the things
Speaker 3: that make a really big difference in the world, I
Speaker 3: think are these small acts that are reciprocated and compounded
Speaker 3: over time, that could shave people's reality profoundly beautiful ways.
Speaker 3: Because I think that's why a lot of people don't
Speaker 3: step out and and do more, because they think that's
Speaker 3: what's required of them is so big they don't know
Speaker 3: where to start. It's just those little opportunities to be human.
Speaker 2: I love that story, dude. I love that, and I
Speaker 2: love the fact that he did that for you, so
Speaker 2: that literally would have cost him financially. There was no
Speaker 2: way of knowing that he'd ever.
Speaker 1: See you again.
Speaker 2: And you know that's real, Like, that's not a marketing strategy.
Speaker 2: You know that's not because you know a lot of
Speaker 2: people would never show up again and go, Wow, how
Speaker 2: dumb is that guy?
Speaker 1: Fantastic? You know, hopefully not most of our listeners, hopefully
Speaker 1: not me. I'm pretty sure i'd go back as well.
Speaker 3: But I hope his boss is not listening to this
Speaker 3: and it isn't getting any trouble.
Speaker 2: I think he must would know him right, And I think,
Speaker 2: like you, that is that is it is. So I's
Speaker 2: going to say it's difficult the right word, but it
Speaker 2: feels like I could be wrong. Uncommon that people do
Speaker 2: stuff for people truly with no agenda and no expectation
Speaker 2: at all of anything back. It's like, I am just
Speaker 2: doing this to make your day better or make you better,
Speaker 2: or to help you see you later.
Speaker 3: And you will get cheated. But I think I think
Speaker 3: the positive outcome of that, even if it's not your intention,
Speaker 3: is going to be far greater. One more story from
Speaker 3: like decades ago, because I think it's we hear stories
Speaker 3: like this and it's beautiful. So I use one of
Speaker 3: the gyms that I used to manage the fitness department
Speaker 3: in was out in Jersey, North Jersey, and when I
Speaker 3: was going back home to New York a couple of
Speaker 3: times a week, when I would pop out to that
Speaker 3: particular location, we had if as you're getting on the motorway,
Speaker 3: there's a petrol station just there. Couldn't be more convenient.
Speaker 3: You just pop off and you hop back on and back.
Speaker 3: In Jersey, you know, I think they still do this.
Speaker 3: It's the lorrd. You can't get out and pump your
Speaker 3: own petrol, so somebody has to do it for you,
Speaker 3: so you didn't even get out of a car and
Speaker 3: you're just in and out. I would sacrifice all of
Speaker 3: that convenience and I would go to a petrol station
Speaker 3: that was miles away. And here's the reason why I
Speaker 3: would do that. Because I was passing through the neighborhood
Speaker 3: and I had to stop off there one day, and
Speaker 3: there was this guy, Michael, and McHale would as you're
Speaker 3: sitting there in the car and you're filling up, he
Speaker 3: would clean your windows, he would strike up a conversation
Speaker 3: with you. He would just I mean, he would check
Speaker 3: your fluids in the car. Now, none of that was
Speaker 3: part of his job, by the way, nobody was required
Speaker 3: to do that, but he would take it upon himself
Speaker 3: that whole thing. So I would sacrifice all that time
Speaker 3: inconvenience just to be able to visit that petrol station
Speaker 3: and be able to give a tip to Michael. So
Speaker 3: one day like I can't, I can't take this anymore.
Speaker 3: Like I'm coming in. I know this guy. You know
Speaker 3: I've been here like over half a dozen times at least.
Speaker 3: I was like, Michael, I can I have a business card?
Speaker 3: Like I asked him, I said, you know, are you?
Speaker 3: Are you the owner? That was the first thing I
Speaker 3: popped into my head. I said, no, no, I'm not.
Speaker 3: You know, I work here. My boss is not here.
Speaker 3: I said, can I can I get his phone number
Speaker 3: because I really want to talk to him. He's like, oh,
Speaker 3: this is everything, Okay, everything's great. I just really need
Speaker 3: to talk to this guy. So I went home and
Speaker 3: I called like twice. Second time I got him on
Speaker 3: the phone, I said, you know, I need to talk
Speaker 3: to you, like you've got this guy McHale there. He's like,
Speaker 3: stop stop right there, stop right there. I know what
Speaker 3: you're gonna say. I hear it nearly every day. He
Speaker 3: knew that that was not a complaint. He was like,
Speaker 3: guy is amazing. I was like, where did you find him?
Speaker 3: I was like, if I was hiring for any position,
Speaker 3: I don't care what his skill sets are, I'd hire him.
Speaker 3: We'll figure that shit out later. And he's like he's
Speaker 3: like yeah, he's like I pay that guy like three
Speaker 3: times more than anybody else.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 3: And some people might be cynical around stories like this.
Speaker 3: I love them. And he's like he makes a pretty
Speaker 3: decent amount of money and tips. So next time I
Speaker 3: passed by and I asked Michael, like, you know, like
Speaker 3: what are your plans? Like where do you see yourself?
Speaker 3: And he's like, well, when I first came here, I
Speaker 3: just wanted to do the best job I could, you know,
Speaker 3: I wanted to give people the best experience. He's like,
Speaker 3: but now I'm saving some money. I'd like to own
Speaker 3: my own place one day. So that act of kindness
Speaker 3: led his boss to notice him and other people, and
Speaker 3: somebody probably said something to him and sparked an idea
Speaker 3: where a dream emerged that probably into been cultivated otherwise.
Speaker 3: It's like, and I understand this, it's very easy to
Speaker 3: default to, well, they don't pay me enough to you know,
Speaker 3: fill in the blanks there. But how much easier was
Speaker 3: Mikhail's job than anybody else that worked in that petrol station? Much?
Speaker 2: And imagine and imagine how many great interactions he had
Speaker 2: per day, And imagine how many people loved him and
Speaker 2: did a version of what you did just to you know,
Speaker 2: driving past three other gas stations just to get to
Speaker 2: him and going out of there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like it.
Speaker 2: It makes sense on so many levels.
Speaker 3: I love that hot job standing out there. You know,
Speaker 3: like with him, he probably went home energized, tired, but energized,
Speaker 3: rather than going home tired and emotionally defeated, because man,
Speaker 3: this job is brutal.
Speaker 1: It's all about perspective. And context.
Speaker 3: Dude.
Speaker 2: Hey, always loved talking to you, mate. You and I
Speaker 2: have got stuff on, so we've we've got a jam.
Speaker 2: Tell my listeners where to connect with you if you would.
Speaker 3: Yeah, self Helpantido dot com, Robert Capuccio dot com, LinkedIn.
Speaker 3: Just yeah, I'll see you there, all.
Speaker 2: Right, buddy, You have a good night and enjoy New
Speaker 2: York City. Trying to try not to let that cat
Speaker 2: dominate your life. Say hello to the beautiful Amy, Give
Speaker 2: your mama, Give your mama caddle from the Widow in
Speaker 2: Melbourne and Melbourne and we'll talk next week.
Speaker 3: Thanks Greg. Good eh,