WEBVTT - 4: The Intern

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<v Speaker 1>This investigation was only possible thanks to subscribers of The Australian.

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<v Speaker 1>all our investigations and news coverage, please search for the

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<v Speaker 1>Australian subscription.

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<v Speaker 2>Pushed nine to eleven's always kind of ugly sports car.

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<v Speaker 2>He sort of like midlife crisis he type stuff. He

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<v Speaker 2>had a Maserati once. I don't know where they all

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<v Speaker 2>came from. I used to hate it because I was

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<v Speaker 2>never allowed in them or to drive them. He had

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<v Speaker 2>a white convertible nine to eleven. Just looked like the

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<v Speaker 2>biggest stickhead in it, and he'd be driving around with

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<v Speaker 2>my son's girlfriend in the car.

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<v Speaker 1>If you thought Hamis couldn't stoop any lower, buckle up.

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<v Speaker 1>In twenty ten, Beck Rose and married Hamish McLaren. The

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<v Speaker 1>following year, her teenage son Jack started dating a girl

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<v Speaker 1>from school. To protect her privacy, we've called her Jane.

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<v Speaker 1>We've been in contact with Jane. She didn't want to

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<v Speaker 1>be interviewed, but she's happy for us to use a pseudonym.

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<v Speaker 1>Jane was just sixteen when Hamish first began taking her

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<v Speaker 1>for rides in his convertible Porsche. I'm Greg Barrel. This podcast,

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<v Speaker 1>Who the hell is Hamish? He's brought to you by

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<v Speaker 1>the Australian newspaper.

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<v Speaker 2>So was this gorgeous little wounded.

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<v Speaker 1>Girl the beepshell here utter maask Jane's identity.

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<v Speaker 2>Who came from a pretty messed up family situation. She

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<v Speaker 2>and Jack got together when they were in New ten

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<v Speaker 2>So that was in twenty eleven. First love, like, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>first every thing for the two of them. They were

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<v Speaker 2>fifteen when they first got together. The two of them

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<v Speaker 2>got quite serious at the end of eleven and she

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<v Speaker 2>pretty much moved in. So she to me she was.

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<v Speaker 1>Just like my daughter, and wonderful for you having another female.

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<v Speaker 2>Gorgeous and she really helped me with the house. Like

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<v Speaker 2>I'd go to work and I'd come home and she

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<v Speaker 2>would have, you know, folded the washing or started making

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<v Speaker 2>dinner or cleaned up, and she was just and I thought,

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<v Speaker 2>she just seems so happy. Jack was so happy. It

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<v Speaker 2>was great. Hamish used to just kind of joke around

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<v Speaker 2>and call her the dwarf and we'd all sit down

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<v Speaker 2>and have dinners together and it just felt like happy families.

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<v Speaker 2>I sort of thought, wow, like I'm doing all right,

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<v Speaker 2>this is this is good. It wasn't too long after

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<v Speaker 2>that that I just started to feel uncomfortable about the

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<v Speaker 2>way that Hamish was around, being like a beach place.

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<v Speaker 2>She might come up from being asleep downstairs with cozy

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<v Speaker 2>bottoms and like a T shirt maybe with no cozy

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<v Speaker 2>top on, and she's gorgeous and she's sixteen, and he'd

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<v Speaker 2>sort of get the tetail and flick her balm or

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<v Speaker 2>something like that, and just things like that just irked me,

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<v Speaker 2>and I'd say to him later, hey, like, you can't

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<v Speaker 2>do that, like that's kind of not appropriate, and he's like, oh,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, get over it. Like she's just a kid.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm just mucking around with her. It's nothing. I didn't

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<v Speaker 2>like it. That relationships, that situation grew from that point,

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<v Speaker 2>and he then started, like he did with the boys.

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<v Speaker 2>He took her right under his wing with sporting stuff

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<v Speaker 2>and going running and doing triathlons and all of that

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<v Speaker 2>kind of stuff because he was right into it, as

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<v Speaker 2>you know, yes, so he started sort of being her

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<v Speaker 2>personal trainer.

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<v Speaker 1>Beck watched all this unfold under her own roof with

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<v Speaker 1>a sense of rising dread. She raised her concerns her

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<v Speaker 1>three sons would take Hamish's side it was divide and rule.

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<v Speaker 2>This is twenty eleven when they first met. Movie into

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<v Speaker 2>twenty twelve, things started to get more full on with

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<v Speaker 2>in year eleven and twelve she was studying business studies,

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<v Speaker 2>which he thought was you know, just amazing. And he's like, well,

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<v Speaker 2>I can help you with work, and I can help you,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, help with your assignments and all of that

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<v Speaker 2>kind of stuff, which of course she was like, fantastic.

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<v Speaker 2>He introduced her.

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<v Speaker 1>To HAMI said. He introduced her to a colleague in

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<v Speaker 1>Sydney and had organized for Jane to do an internship.

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<v Speaker 2>She's a clever girl and she's you know, she was

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<v Speaker 2>a school captain. You know, she's going and doing all

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<v Speaker 2>these like youth leadership courses and all of this. She's amazing.

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<v Speaker 2>So that was yes, twenty eleven. Sorry, they just I

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<v Speaker 2>just was suss. I can remember one time walking the

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<v Speaker 2>beach access just across the road, and Hamish and I

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<v Speaker 2>were going down to the beach. Had gone down with

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<v Speaker 2>her sister earlier. I don't know where Jack was at

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<v Speaker 2>work or something, and I got to the top of

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<v Speaker 2>the stairs at the beach and I don't know what

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<v Speaker 2>it was about this site, but I saw walking down

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<v Speaker 2>to the water and Hamish just leaning on his haunches,

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<v Speaker 2>just watching her walk to the water, and I just

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<v Speaker 2>it just I felt repulsed. I was like, this is

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<v Speaker 2>not right.

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<v Speaker 1>There was something predatory about it.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and I just thought this is wrong, like something

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<v Speaker 2>is not right. But if ever I said anything to him,

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<v Speaker 2>he just told me I was a lunatic. You're crazy,

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<v Speaker 2>like you're fucking imagining things.

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<v Speaker 3>Beck.

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<v Speaker 2>There's nothing, like, what are you talking about. She's a kid.

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<v Speaker 2>Jack started saying to me, Mom, you need to butt

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<v Speaker 2>out of my relationship and stop going on about her

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<v Speaker 2>and Hamish. She's getting really upset, and so he was

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<v Speaker 2>really cranky with me. He was saying, you need to

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<v Speaker 2>stop saying stuff like that, Beck, because nothing's going on

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<v Speaker 2>and you're crazy. So I sort of had everyone telling

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<v Speaker 2>me you're wrong, like get over it, like you're crazy,

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<v Speaker 2>and so I don't think I thought I'm crazy, but

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<v Speaker 2>I thought I felt really I felt like suffocated with

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<v Speaker 2>people nobody hearing what I was saying, and knowing in

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<v Speaker 2>my gut that something wasn't right.

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<v Speaker 1>The signs were not good. They had not been long married,

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<v Speaker 1>and Beck and Hamish were in counseling with a well

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<v Speaker 1>known professor of psychology in Sydney.

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<v Speaker 2>I kept saying to Hamish, you know, I'm this is

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<v Speaker 2>I feel really wrong? You know I was. I think

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<v Speaker 2>I was trying to pull out of the relationship. And

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<v Speaker 2>he would just, apart from telling me I was crazy,

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<v Speaker 2>beg me like I love you so much, like you

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<v Speaker 2>can't leave me? What about the boys? I love the boys?

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<v Speaker 2>And he'd do this whole kind of dance of how amazing,

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<v Speaker 2>Let's go to therapy, Let's go and get counseling. And

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<v Speaker 2>so I said, okay, cool, let's go to counseling. So

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<v Speaker 2>he found a guy in Sydney in gleebe so we'd

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<v Speaker 2>just go down and have like a session every two weeks.

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<v Speaker 2>And this went on for quite a few months, and

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<v Speaker 2>you know, I got to talk about how I felt

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<v Speaker 2>about and feeling like Hamish was a liar, and he

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<v Speaker 2>would tell me a lot all the time, and I'd

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<v Speaker 2>find things out and Hamish would sit there and he'd

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<v Speaker 2>cry and say how much he loved me. And the

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<v Speaker 2>Professor's like back, like, I really think that you're getting

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<v Speaker 2>the wrong idea, like he genuinely what I can see

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<v Speaker 2>here is a man who genuinely loves you, and you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't feel like there's any like months and months

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<v Speaker 2>and months and months of hearing that from him as

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<v Speaker 2>well just gave Hamish more ammunition to tell me how

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<v Speaker 2>fucked up I was.

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<v Speaker 1>Hamiy should even manage to hoodwink the professor.

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<v Speaker 2>I thought I was going nuts, and I thought I'm

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<v Speaker 2>just worthless. Like there were times like I see, especially

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<v Speaker 2>you know later down the track, when I'm working out

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<v Speaker 2>how much financial should I mean, actually, because of all

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<v Speaker 2>the loans he signed, like forge my signature on, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>there were times that I was like, go, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I could literally I'd sit on a varada and go,

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<v Speaker 2>I could fucking just hang myself off this and you

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<v Speaker 2>know it would just go away. But then I kept thinking,

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<v Speaker 2>they'll never talk, you know, how could I do that

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<v Speaker 2>to the three most important things in my whole life.

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<v Speaker 2>But yeah, it was pretty dark times and just feeling

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<v Speaker 2>like no one would believe you.

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<v Speaker 1>Jane was young and, as Beck says, Jess gorgeous, but

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<v Speaker 1>Hamish had motivations other than just having a trophy in

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<v Speaker 1>the passenger seat of his Porsche. So can you explain

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<v Speaker 1>how you came to meet Hamish?

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, our eldest granddaughter was going with her with his stepson, Yes,

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<v Speaker 4>Jack Jack. They went to school together like the high school.

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<v Speaker 1>You'll recall Glenn Pickard from episode two the Miner from Mudgie.

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<v Speaker 1>These are his good friends Rain and Peter Cross. They

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<v Speaker 1>live in a stunning new house on the shores of

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<v Speaker 1>Smith's Lake, not far from Bluey's Beach. It's a paradise.

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<v Speaker 1>They worked hard all their lives to get it. Lorraine

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<v Speaker 1>is a retired hairdresser. Peter and Glen worked alongside each

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<v Speaker 1>other in the mines. The men were good mates and

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<v Speaker 1>competed in long distance kayaking events. Both were fitness freaks.

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<v Speaker 1>That was until Peter was badly injured in an industrial accident.

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<v Speaker 1>A truck rolled on him, leaving him with a permanent

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<v Speaker 1>brain injury. It affects his balance and his memory. Lorraine

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<v Speaker 1>and Peter are also Jane's grandparents. They have a different surname.

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<v Speaker 1>Their grandkids grew up in fractured families and so they

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<v Speaker 1>took on much of the parenting. Two of their grandkids

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<v Speaker 1>were twins born with serious disabilities. One died not long

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<v Speaker 1>after birth. The other had cerebral palsy and died at

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<v Speaker 1>the age of fourteen. These were Jane's sisters.

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<v Speaker 4>We actually had the grandkids living with us because my

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<v Speaker 4>daughter had a married married their partner that split up.

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<v Speaker 4>Our granddaughter died and when she was fourteen, the one

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<v Speaker 4>that had cerebral pausing, and when we built the house,

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<v Speaker 4>it was one of the bedrooms her wheelchair and the

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<v Speaker 4>main bathroom could go in and out. Because there were

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<v Speaker 4>six children, four girls and two boys, and then the

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<v Speaker 4>three girls, their stepfather said that he couldn't keep them.

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<v Speaker 4>He had the two boys. Harriet had died by this time,

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<v Speaker 4>so they came and lived here.

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<v Speaker 1>So you took on a parenting role for your.

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<v Speaker 4>Grandparents, probably, but had kind of that role right from

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<v Speaker 4>the beginning because it was hard work. When Harriet was born,

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<v Speaker 4>Gabrielle died, and her twin and then Harriet, she was

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<v Speaker 4>only going to live four days, and then it was

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<v Speaker 4>four months, and it just went like that, and each

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<v Speaker 4>time that she had seizure she got worse. So it

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<v Speaker 4>got to the stage where she had a track here,

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<v Speaker 4>you know, in the stomach to be fed, and couldn't move,

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<v Speaker 4>couldn't say anything, So it's constant.

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<v Speaker 1>Lorraine and Peter, like Glenn Picard, had done well out

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<v Speaker 1>of the mining boom and from Lorraine's hairdressing business. They'd

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<v Speaker 1>invested heavily in property and we're planning to use the

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<v Speaker 1>money to help put their grandkids through university and generally

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<v Speaker 1>just give them a leg up in life. They met

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<v Speaker 1>Hamies through their granddaughter Jane, at a local restaurant.

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<v Speaker 4>The first original meeting was we went to a Chinese restaurant.

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<v Speaker 4>They were there. We walked over and just said eloso.

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<v Speaker 4>Were introduced in the conversation. He knew that Peter was

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<v Speaker 4>trying to get back into his single kayak because he

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<v Speaker 4>lost his balance, so he was trying to still wanted

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<v Speaker 4>to do kayaking, So Hamish was kayaking over near the

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<v Speaker 4>WRECKI and said come out and I'll help you. So

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<v Speaker 4>that's how.

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<v Speaker 2>We went there.

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<v Speaker 4>And then the next minute when we got out of

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<v Speaker 4>the water, etc. He said, you got a minute to talk.

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<v Speaker 1>Hamish also knew that Peter was about to finalize his

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<v Speaker 1>compensation payment from his mining accident in two thousand and four.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, that's where it all started.

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<v Speaker 1>And so you went out kayaking on the lake. Yep.

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<v Speaker 5>He knew what he's doing right from the start. Just

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<v Speaker 5>cond me No, I just said he had something coming up.

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<v Speaker 5>It was real good investment. If I had any spare money,

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<v Speaker 5>I could he get me in on the ground.

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<v Speaker 1>What did you think of this line?

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<v Speaker 4>Well, I just said to them, well, you know, we'll listen.

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<v Speaker 4>You can come around to the house, which he did

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<v Speaker 4>in min Crescent, and yeah, he just told us what

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<v Speaker 4>they were doing and were at the time had an

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<v Speaker 4>overdraft because when Pete had the Act, our bank manager

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<v Speaker 4>got a five hundred and sixty thousand overdraft because we

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<v Speaker 4>were in debt for six hundred seven hundred I think

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<v Speaker 4>at the time of his accident, plus like payments and

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<v Speaker 4>everything that we had to do so just to keep

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<v Speaker 4>it till his court case came about. So I hadn't

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<v Speaker 4>actually canceled that. So I just said to him, well,

0:13:25.920 --> 0:13:28.880
<v Speaker 4>we'll could tribe with one hundred and fifty to start with.

0:13:29.800 --> 0:13:32.920
<v Speaker 1>Hamish became part of their family, dropping in for cups

0:13:32.920 --> 0:13:35.560
<v Speaker 1>of tea, taking Peter out for drives.

0:13:36.040 --> 0:13:38.439
<v Speaker 4>Used to say that I was like a big sister

0:13:38.520 --> 0:13:41.640
<v Speaker 4>to him because I used to say, lot, Grandma, because

0:13:41.640 --> 0:13:45.000
<v Speaker 4>we're grandmother and Nana popped to so many people, and

0:13:45.000 --> 0:13:47.040
<v Speaker 4>he said, no, you're like a big sister to me.

0:13:47.920 --> 0:13:48.880
<v Speaker 4>He said, You're family.

0:13:49.720 --> 0:13:51.840
<v Speaker 1>Returns on their money were eyewatering.

0:13:52.080 --> 0:13:57.440
<v Speaker 4>The first meeting, he said that it's now the thing is,

0:13:57.600 --> 0:14:01.120
<v Speaker 4>it's worth three million. And I just sat there and

0:14:01.520 --> 0:14:06.080
<v Speaker 4>I just looked. I was actually numb, didn't say anything.

0:14:07.080 --> 0:14:09.200
<v Speaker 4>I don't know. Sometimes along the way I think I

0:14:09.240 --> 0:14:13.600
<v Speaker 4>had a gut feeling that was garbage. But anyway, the

0:14:13.640 --> 0:14:16.120
<v Speaker 4>next thing was we got a phone call or he

0:14:16.440 --> 0:14:20.160
<v Speaker 4>said that, I mean, I'm able to get more units.

0:14:20.400 --> 0:14:27.160
<v Speaker 4>Are you interested? So we invested more money, the whole

0:14:27.240 --> 0:14:34.480
<v Speaker 4>hundred five hundred thousand we gave him eventually, and then

0:14:34.520 --> 0:14:38.320
<v Speaker 4>we eventually gave him the super and it just went

0:14:38.360 --> 0:14:43.080
<v Speaker 4>from there to another mining thing. The last lot he

0:14:43.120 --> 0:14:45.080
<v Speaker 4>said he invested it all into.

0:14:45.480 --> 0:14:46.720
<v Speaker 2>He worked for.

0:14:48.160 --> 0:14:50.760
<v Speaker 4>Golden Garb and Sacks Sacks.

0:14:51.360 --> 0:14:54.040
<v Speaker 1>How much did you pay over the rain all told?

0:14:54.520 --> 0:14:58.360
<v Speaker 4>All told, I think it worked out to be one

0:14:58.360 --> 0:15:03.640
<v Speaker 4>point seven that we gave him. But see we'd sold

0:15:03.680 --> 0:15:07.760
<v Speaker 4>our house in Lynn Crescent, which was four hundred thousand

0:15:07.840 --> 0:15:10.480
<v Speaker 4>that we gave him, because we ended up selling all

0:15:10.560 --> 0:15:15.520
<v Speaker 4>by the units to get up here, but we ended

0:15:15.600 --> 0:15:17.360
<v Speaker 4>up having to sell the units anyway.

0:15:17.760 --> 0:15:20.320
<v Speaker 1>During this time, Jane began traveling with Hamish down to

0:15:20.360 --> 0:15:24.200
<v Speaker 1>Sydney supposedly to learn the ropes of the world of finance.

0:15:25.120 --> 0:15:27.480
<v Speaker 1>Hamish promised her that a business in Sydney he had

0:15:27.520 --> 0:15:31.200
<v Speaker 1>connections with would sponsor her to go to Princeton University

0:15:31.480 --> 0:15:32.080
<v Speaker 1>in the US.

0:15:32.800 --> 0:15:36.160
<v Speaker 4>All the teachers at school wanted to do, Oh, you

0:15:36.200 --> 0:15:37.960
<v Speaker 4>should do this, you should do that. And I just

0:15:38.040 --> 0:15:41.000
<v Speaker 4>said to her, you know, to be in finance, it

0:15:41.000 --> 0:15:43.200
<v Speaker 4>would be a good thing for you to do, not

0:15:43.320 --> 0:15:46.000
<v Speaker 4>knowing that it was what it was.

0:15:47.840 --> 0:15:49.680
<v Speaker 1>Did you have concerns about her going down there with

0:15:49.760 --> 0:15:51.480
<v Speaker 1>him or you thought it was you thought it was

0:15:51.480 --> 0:15:52.160
<v Speaker 1>one of a good thing.

0:15:52.960 --> 0:15:53.040
<v Speaker 5>No.

0:15:53.560 --> 0:15:56.960
<v Speaker 4>I thought that would be good for her, that she

0:15:57.000 --> 0:15:58.480
<v Speaker 4>would go to unidown there.

0:15:59.720 --> 0:16:01.760
<v Speaker 1>Didn't think that there was anything nefarious about it at

0:16:01.800 --> 0:16:08.480
<v Speaker 1>that stage. M hm hm. And she told you that

0:16:08.560 --> 0:16:11.320
<v Speaker 1>there was going to be a Princeton scholarship.

0:16:13.440 --> 0:16:14.880
<v Speaker 2>No, he did, didn't he He did.

0:16:15.280 --> 0:16:17.040
<v Speaker 5>He took her over there, didn't he.

0:16:17.760 --> 0:16:20.840
<v Speaker 1>And he took her to the US US and she.

0:16:20.920 --> 0:16:22.640
<v Speaker 4>Took it to exam or something.

0:16:22.680 --> 0:16:25.920
<v Speaker 1>He said. Did you have any concerns at that stage

0:16:27.920 --> 0:16:29.880
<v Speaker 1>of what him taking her at US?

0:16:31.600 --> 0:16:33.760
<v Speaker 4>No? They had a lady go with him. They had

0:16:33.760 --> 0:16:39.400
<v Speaker 4>a well that's what what he said. A chaperone or

0:16:39.440 --> 0:16:40.480
<v Speaker 4>whatever you want to call it.

0:16:41.400 --> 0:16:47.720
<v Speaker 1>I don't think there was anyone went did she have

0:16:47.760 --> 0:16:49.360
<v Speaker 1>a relationship with him as well?

0:16:50.040 --> 0:16:51.240
<v Speaker 2>You'd have to ask her.

0:16:51.360 --> 0:16:54.720
<v Speaker 1>Right, yeah, I mean that she's a seven annear old

0:16:54.760 --> 0:17:01.720
<v Speaker 1>girl that stage. Yeah, that's pretty a barrant behavior. I

0:17:01.720 --> 0:17:06.719
<v Speaker 1>would have thought for a forty eight year old guy,

0:17:07.600 --> 0:17:14.040
<v Speaker 1>just a con man m because you know, she's very vulnerable.

0:17:16.960 --> 0:17:20.119
<v Speaker 5>That's what he worked on. Everybody but vulnerable.

0:17:37.680 --> 0:17:39.960
<v Speaker 1>Beck Rosen was not the only one who had concerns

0:17:39.960 --> 0:17:45.040
<v Speaker 1>about Jane and her relationship with Hamish fashion designer Lisa

0:17:45.080 --> 0:17:46.320
<v Speaker 1>Hoe did too.

0:17:48.640 --> 0:17:48.800
<v Speaker 3>Well.

0:17:48.800 --> 0:17:52.160
<v Speaker 6>The story that we were fed was that was one

0:17:52.200 --> 0:17:55.800
<v Speaker 6>of Beck's boys girlfriends and that she was particularly bright

0:17:56.400 --> 0:18:04.360
<v Speaker 6>and that had a mentoring role in supporting her so

0:18:04.400 --> 0:18:09.280
<v Speaker 6>that she could travel overseas for an opportunity to maybe study.

0:18:08.920 --> 0:18:10.280
<v Speaker 2>Overseas at Princeton.

0:18:10.720 --> 0:18:15.040
<v Speaker 6>I can't remember exactly which university was, but that they

0:18:15.080 --> 0:18:17.640
<v Speaker 6>wanted to give her an opportunity.

0:18:18.480 --> 0:18:21.560
<v Speaker 1>As it happens, Lisa Hoe has a holiday house up

0:18:21.560 --> 0:18:22.359
<v Speaker 1>at Bluey's Beach.

0:18:23.119 --> 0:18:25.160
<v Speaker 2>I met maybe twice.

0:18:25.800 --> 0:18:28.360
<v Speaker 6>I remember one time when I was on holidays with

0:18:28.400 --> 0:18:32.800
<v Speaker 6>my children and we were at home at the holiday

0:18:32.840 --> 0:18:36.480
<v Speaker 6>house and he turned up. You know, in the kitchen

0:18:37.280 --> 0:18:40.640
<v Speaker 6>in tow and they'd apparently been on a run, and

0:18:41.640 --> 0:18:44.960
<v Speaker 6>she was apparently quite athletic, and so they used to

0:18:45.000 --> 0:18:48.679
<v Speaker 6>go on regular runs together. And then another time when

0:18:48.760 --> 0:18:51.679
<v Speaker 6>my daughter and I were having a manicure, and I

0:18:51.720 --> 0:18:53.600
<v Speaker 6>don't know, he must have seen my car parked in

0:18:53.640 --> 0:18:57.280
<v Speaker 6>the street and he's bounded in, bare chested, bare feet.

0:18:57.400 --> 0:18:59.560
<v Speaker 6>The two of them looked as if they'd well. They

0:18:59.560 --> 0:19:01.560
<v Speaker 6>said they'd been to the beach and they were covered

0:19:01.600 --> 0:19:05.120
<v Speaker 6>in sand. And I thought, that's sort of odd. Sunday afternoon,

0:19:05.560 --> 0:19:08.720
<v Speaker 6>you're with like this young girl and he'd been to

0:19:08.760 --> 0:19:11.760
<v Speaker 6>the beach. This was in Sydney, in Sydney and Paddington actually,

0:19:11.800 --> 0:19:14.360
<v Speaker 6>and I thought, well, why would you come and sort

0:19:14.359 --> 0:19:16.919
<v Speaker 6>of present her to my daughter? And I like, I

0:19:17.040 --> 0:19:18.840
<v Speaker 6>found that a bit odd.

0:19:19.040 --> 0:19:22.159
<v Speaker 1>Did you think at that stage that there was something

0:19:22.160 --> 0:19:23.520
<v Speaker 1>more than mentoring going on?

0:19:23.680 --> 0:19:27.120
<v Speaker 6>I for the first time. Probably that's when I thought

0:19:29.840 --> 0:19:32.919
<v Speaker 6>something doesn't stack up. I wonder if Beck knows about this,

0:19:33.040 --> 0:19:36.360
<v Speaker 6>or is she comfortable? But to be honest, he kept

0:19:36.440 --> 0:19:37.320
<v Speaker 6>Beck away from us.

0:19:37.640 --> 0:19:40.800
<v Speaker 1>Hamish was skilled at keeping various aspects of his life separate.

0:19:41.560 --> 0:19:44.880
<v Speaker 1>He would spread rumors and lies, pitting people against each

0:19:44.960 --> 0:19:50.080
<v Speaker 1>other lest they get together and compare notes. As you'd imagine,

0:19:50.560 --> 0:19:53.920
<v Speaker 1>the relationship between Jane and Hamish was causing serious problems

0:19:53.960 --> 0:19:55.640
<v Speaker 1>in Beck and Hamish's marriage.

0:19:57.160 --> 0:19:59.520
<v Speaker 2>That's really when I started spending a lot of time

0:19:59.520 --> 0:20:02.800
<v Speaker 2>in Sydney with Hamish, going down to allegedly work.

0:20:02.640 --> 0:20:06.800
<v Speaker 1>For This is the internship Hamish had supposedly lined up

0:20:06.800 --> 0:20:09.560
<v Speaker 1>for Jane at a business in Sydney.

0:20:09.280 --> 0:20:12.560
<v Speaker 2>And that it meant she was going to be offered

0:20:12.640 --> 0:20:14.800
<v Speaker 2>at the end of her internship, they'd pay for her

0:20:14.840 --> 0:20:17.560
<v Speaker 2>to do a degree at Princeton in New York.

0:20:17.680 --> 0:20:21.080
<v Speaker 1>She expressed her concerns to Hamish. He brushed them aside,

0:20:21.480 --> 0:20:22.199
<v Speaker 1>It's why are you.

0:20:22.280 --> 0:20:24.560
<v Speaker 2>So unhappy for her? It's just just because Jack's not

0:20:24.640 --> 0:20:27.960
<v Speaker 2>that smart. It's really clever. Like that's when he really

0:20:27.960 --> 0:20:31.840
<v Speaker 2>started putting the boot into Jack, which of course made

0:20:31.880 --> 0:20:38.199
<v Speaker 2>me even more furious and devastated and hurt. And he

0:20:38.280 --> 0:20:41.960
<v Speaker 2>told me gave him like five hundred dollars and he

0:20:42.040 --> 0:20:44.959
<v Speaker 2>started investing or trading for her, and all of a sudden,

0:20:45.040 --> 0:20:49.080
<v Speaker 2>like she's getting handed kind of like two thousand dollars

0:20:49.080 --> 0:20:52.960
<v Speaker 2>here and there to her at seventeen sixteen, who'd never

0:20:53.000 --> 0:20:53.920
<v Speaker 2>had a haircut.

0:20:53.600 --> 0:20:56.400
<v Speaker 1>Before One day, Hamish came home with what he said

0:20:56.520 --> 0:20:58.119
<v Speaker 1>was big and exciting news.

0:20:58.400 --> 0:21:03.480
<v Speaker 2>He said, I've got great news. The internships come through

0:21:03.680 --> 0:21:07.000
<v Speaker 2>and he's going to go on a trip to New

0:21:07.080 --> 0:21:09.480
<v Speaker 2>York to go to Princeton and do a walk through

0:21:09.520 --> 0:21:13.640
<v Speaker 2>the university, and yeah, I have three weeks in the States.

0:21:13.960 --> 0:21:17.960
<v Speaker 2>And I just went, like my stomach just dropped, and

0:21:18.000 --> 0:21:20.760
<v Speaker 2>I knew straight away, and I went, be fucking kidding me,

0:21:20.800 --> 0:21:22.439
<v Speaker 2>And he goes, what's your problem? Why can't you be

0:21:22.480 --> 0:21:25.080
<v Speaker 2>excited for her? And we were sitting, all of us

0:21:25.119 --> 0:21:27.960
<v Speaker 2>in the family and she's sitting there, and I said,

0:21:28.359 --> 0:21:30.880
<v Speaker 2>I just was gobsmacks. I got up, I left the thing,

0:21:30.920 --> 0:21:33.239
<v Speaker 2>and I went to a girlfriend's around the corner. He

0:21:33.280 --> 0:21:36.280
<v Speaker 2>then came over because I'd said, this is happening, you know.

0:21:36.400 --> 0:21:40.200
<v Speaker 2>I told my girlfriend he's saying that he's taking overseas,

0:21:40.600 --> 0:21:41.760
<v Speaker 2>but he's not going.

0:21:41.920 --> 0:21:44.280
<v Speaker 1>Hamis told beck that the owner of the business was

0:21:44.320 --> 0:21:45.480
<v Speaker 1>going with Jane, and.

0:21:45.440 --> 0:21:47.320
<v Speaker 2>I just think this is all bullshit, Like what is

0:21:47.359 --> 0:21:51.000
<v Speaker 2>going on. He then convinced me it was all above board.

0:21:51.560 --> 0:21:54.080
<v Speaker 2>But two days later he said, oh, can you believe it?

0:21:54.119 --> 0:21:55.840
<v Speaker 2>I have to go to China at the same time

0:21:57.040 --> 0:21:59.720
<v Speaker 2>that this trip is booked for the internship trip to

0:21:59.720 --> 0:22:04.800
<v Speaker 2>Print University, And I said, are you serious? And he said, yeah,

0:22:04.920 --> 0:22:07.199
<v Speaker 2>I'm just going to tell you this once. If you

0:22:07.960 --> 0:22:10.760
<v Speaker 2>meet up with them, if you see her over there,

0:22:11.040 --> 0:22:14.840
<v Speaker 2>it's it. I'm done, like it's over. He went, are

0:22:14.880 --> 0:22:17.000
<v Speaker 2>you giving me an ultimatum? And I said, yeah, I am.

0:22:17.119 --> 0:22:21.280
<v Speaker 2>If you do, then that's it. Don't come back. So

0:22:21.400 --> 0:22:24.520
<v Speaker 2>then they all go off on this trip. He's away

0:22:24.560 --> 0:22:27.000
<v Speaker 2>for two weeks or two and a half weeks. They

0:22:27.040 --> 0:22:31.440
<v Speaker 2>come back. First thing I say is did you meet

0:22:31.560 --> 0:22:33.919
<v Speaker 2>up with them? And he went I saw them for

0:22:33.960 --> 0:22:38.600
<v Speaker 2>a minute at La Airport, but that was it, and

0:22:38.640 --> 0:22:40.000
<v Speaker 2>I just completely lost it.

0:22:41.040 --> 0:22:44.880
<v Speaker 1>Beck recalls the utter humiliation of having her son's seventeen

0:22:44.960 --> 0:22:47.440
<v Speaker 1>year old girlfriend come in and lecture.

0:22:47.160 --> 0:22:50.119
<v Speaker 2>Her and I'm sitting there balling my eyes out. She

0:22:50.160 --> 0:22:52.479
<v Speaker 2>sat on the end of the bed. She went, you

0:22:52.520 --> 0:22:57.280
<v Speaker 2>really need to stop interfering in my relationship with Hamish

0:22:57.320 --> 0:23:01.960
<v Speaker 2>and my relationship with Jack. This is an internship. Yes

0:23:02.000 --> 0:23:03.760
<v Speaker 2>we caught up with him, but you really have no

0:23:03.880 --> 0:23:06.880
<v Speaker 2>right to make an ultimatum like that that you made

0:23:06.880 --> 0:23:08.800
<v Speaker 2>to him. This is something you and I need to

0:23:08.800 --> 0:23:11.159
<v Speaker 2>discuss with a glass of wine on the veranda. This

0:23:11.320 --> 0:23:13.600
<v Speaker 2>was a seventeen year old girl who was my son's girlfriend,

0:23:14.080 --> 0:23:16.560
<v Speaker 2>and I was just born and Jack was sitting there

0:23:16.640 --> 0:23:22.320
<v Speaker 2>rubbing her back and I remember thinking, is this actually happening?

0:23:22.359 --> 0:23:24.440
<v Speaker 2>Am I What is going on?

0:23:25.480 --> 0:23:30.040
<v Speaker 1>That was shortly before Christmas twenty thirteen. Jack and Jane

0:23:30.080 --> 0:23:33.600
<v Speaker 1>broke up that Christmas. They'd both finished school and she

0:23:33.720 --> 0:23:37.400
<v Speaker 1>moved to Sydney. Hamish never really returned to the house

0:23:37.400 --> 0:23:40.440
<v Speaker 1>at blew His Beach. He was living at the apartment

0:23:40.480 --> 0:23:43.640
<v Speaker 1>on the finger Wharf at Willemloo, the apartment he'd bought

0:23:43.640 --> 0:23:44.760
<v Speaker 1>with other people's money.

0:23:45.200 --> 0:23:49.119
<v Speaker 2>I'd gone down to. There was a hairdresser around in

0:23:49.200 --> 0:23:52.040
<v Speaker 2>Potts Point that I used to go to sometimes, and

0:23:52.359 --> 0:23:54.399
<v Speaker 2>I went in to get my hair done and the

0:23:54.440 --> 0:23:58.359
<v Speaker 2>hairdresser said to me back, you know that Hamish's bringing

0:23:58.359 --> 0:24:01.200
<v Speaker 2>that your son's girlfriend, because because i'd taken that's where

0:24:01.200 --> 0:24:02.919
<v Speaker 2>i'd taken her for a first tear cup. You know

0:24:03.000 --> 0:24:06.520
<v Speaker 2>that Hamish's bringing her in here and paying six hundred

0:24:06.520 --> 0:24:08.280
<v Speaker 2>bucks for her to get head done. And I was

0:24:08.359 --> 0:24:11.840
<v Speaker 2>like what and he said yeah. I said, he's sure,

0:24:11.880 --> 0:24:13.879
<v Speaker 2>and he's like, yeah. The white Porsche out the front,

0:24:14.280 --> 0:24:16.000
<v Speaker 2>you know, drops her off, then picks her up.

0:24:16.920 --> 0:24:19.520
<v Speaker 1>For years afterwards, Beck would be dealing with a host

0:24:19.520 --> 0:24:24.159
<v Speaker 1>of dodger Carly says, HAMI should forged her signature. She

0:24:24.240 --> 0:24:26.640
<v Speaker 1>and her father went to the Porsche dealership in Sydney.

0:24:27.280 --> 0:24:29.960
<v Speaker 1>They spoke to the manager to try and sort it out.

0:24:30.200 --> 0:24:32.920
<v Speaker 2>We show him the document and he goes, oh, look,

0:24:32.960 --> 0:24:34.919
<v Speaker 2>I don't know anything about this and I didn't sign this.

0:24:35.000 --> 0:24:37.760
<v Speaker 2>And they get the financial guy in who goes, oh, yeah, yeah,

0:24:37.800 --> 0:24:41.720
<v Speaker 2>like I organized that for Hamish And we're like, who's

0:24:41.760 --> 0:24:44.240
<v Speaker 2>this person who's witnessed it and he's just a kid

0:24:44.280 --> 0:24:47.439
<v Speaker 2>at a desk, And they ended up saying, look, we

0:24:47.640 --> 0:24:50.640
<v Speaker 2>just kind of work on a basis of trust with customers,

0:24:51.400 --> 0:24:54.760
<v Speaker 2>like customers that we know. Hamish always told us that

0:24:54.800 --> 0:24:56.399
<v Speaker 2>you didn't like coming to Sydney, that you had a

0:24:56.400 --> 0:25:02.520
<v Speaker 2>bit of agroaphobia, so he even said he I think

0:25:02.560 --> 0:25:06.000
<v Speaker 2>he even said he had supplied photos of you signing

0:25:06.040 --> 0:25:09.240
<v Speaker 2>the documents, which he didn't because I never signed anything

0:25:09.240 --> 0:25:12.160
<v Speaker 2>and it's rubbish. After that first one, we found about

0:25:12.160 --> 0:25:13.000
<v Speaker 2>another three or four.

0:25:21.960 --> 0:25:25.760
<v Speaker 1>Previously, we tried to interview Jack rosen Beck's oldest son,

0:25:26.359 --> 0:25:31.280
<v Speaker 1>but he declined. However, after last week's episode, he sent

0:25:31.320 --> 0:25:35.840
<v Speaker 1>me this text message, I've just listened to Mum's podcast. Amazing,

0:25:37.000 --> 0:25:40.360
<v Speaker 1>thank you for telling this story. Already I feel better

0:25:40.359 --> 0:25:44.000
<v Speaker 1>about everything. The podcast brought back up what I'd tried

0:25:44.040 --> 0:25:48.360
<v Speaker 1>to push down and forget, and it feels good. Jack

0:25:48.480 --> 0:25:50.920
<v Speaker 1>is about to graduate from a four year science degree

0:25:51.119 --> 0:25:54.840
<v Speaker 1>at Newcastle University. On the weekend, I drove up to

0:25:54.880 --> 0:25:59.000
<v Speaker 1>Newcastle to interview him in the bedroom of your sharehouse.

0:25:59.400 --> 0:26:02.080
<v Speaker 1>He sat in his bed beneath the pink void past up.

0:26:03.480 --> 0:26:07.040
<v Speaker 1>Jack's formative years were spent with Hamish. It's so confusing

0:26:07.280 --> 0:26:11.160
<v Speaker 1>because in some ways, he says Hamish was a positive influence.

0:26:12.200 --> 0:26:16.040
<v Speaker 1>Because of Hamish, Jack never took drugs or drank during

0:26:16.080 --> 0:26:17.400
<v Speaker 1>those years.

0:26:18.520 --> 0:26:21.680
<v Speaker 7>So he taught me how to surf, and he got

0:26:21.680 --> 0:26:24.960
<v Speaker 7>me into fitness, like we do Trithlons together and a

0:26:25.000 --> 0:26:30.879
<v Speaker 7>lot of boxing, like every afternoon we train, and you know,

0:26:30.920 --> 0:26:33.040
<v Speaker 7>we built a pretty strong relationship on that, I thought,

0:26:34.600 --> 0:26:37.880
<v Speaker 7>and I trusted him a lot through it and believed

0:26:37.920 --> 0:26:39.440
<v Speaker 7>a lot of the things that he was saying, because

0:26:39.440 --> 0:26:41.800
<v Speaker 7>he was so good at building you up and just

0:26:43.520 --> 0:26:45.919
<v Speaker 7>you know, making you think that you were going to

0:26:45.920 --> 0:26:47.840
<v Speaker 7>be all these things and that all these really great

0:26:47.840 --> 0:26:49.480
<v Speaker 7>things were going to happen and everything if you just

0:26:49.560 --> 0:26:52.439
<v Speaker 7>listened to what he said and you know, just followed

0:26:52.480 --> 0:26:54.920
<v Speaker 7>his lead kind of thing. He just seemed like someone

0:26:54.960 --> 0:26:56.280
<v Speaker 7>you could really trust.

0:26:56.720 --> 0:26:59.080
<v Speaker 1>Jack said, Hamish came into their lives when they were

0:26:59.119 --> 0:27:02.520
<v Speaker 1>all at a very low point after his parents' separation.

0:27:02.640 --> 0:27:06.200
<v Speaker 7>And she was still getting over that definitely. But that's

0:27:06.200 --> 0:27:08.800
<v Speaker 7>why I guess he was so appealing because she was

0:27:08.840 --> 0:27:11.800
<v Speaker 7>in such a state and we all were, you know,

0:27:12.040 --> 0:27:15.240
<v Speaker 7>even me and my younger brothers, like we didn't really

0:27:15.280 --> 0:27:17.480
<v Speaker 7>have a father figure or anything like that, and he

0:27:17.600 --> 0:27:18.640
<v Speaker 7>really filled that role.

0:27:19.680 --> 0:27:23.840
<v Speaker 1>And then he was betrayed by his stepfather and the

0:27:23.880 --> 0:27:24.639
<v Speaker 1>girl he loved.

0:27:24.880 --> 0:27:28.080
<v Speaker 7>They were quite close, but I never I never really

0:27:28.080 --> 0:27:33.679
<v Speaker 7>suspected anything. I trusted them both so much, and yeah, yeah,

0:27:33.720 --> 0:27:37.359
<v Speaker 7>and they both were, you know, very important people in

0:27:37.359 --> 0:27:41.600
<v Speaker 7>my lives, you know, which, like I said, I bestowed

0:27:41.640 --> 0:27:45.040
<v Speaker 7>so much trust into both of them. I think it's just, yeah,

0:27:45.080 --> 0:27:48.240
<v Speaker 7>the fact that she was so young and you know,

0:27:48.480 --> 0:27:53.040
<v Speaker 7>didn't have a great upbringing. I don't it's it's hard,

0:27:53.280 --> 0:27:55.719
<v Speaker 7>but I'm not angry or I don't blame her for anything.

0:27:55.920 --> 0:27:58.080
<v Speaker 7>It's it was definitely like he was the one who

0:27:58.119 --> 0:28:03.240
<v Speaker 7>had the plan, master plan, and she was just you know,

0:28:03.240 --> 0:28:03.840
<v Speaker 7>a part of it.

0:28:04.240 --> 0:28:06.840
<v Speaker 1>Jack says, when Hamish first sold the story of Jane's

0:28:06.840 --> 0:28:10.760
<v Speaker 1>internship down in Sydney, he was very supportive.

0:28:10.920 --> 0:28:13.680
<v Speaker 7>Because she was really smart and she was going to

0:28:13.720 --> 0:28:17.359
<v Speaker 7>do great things, and she had a pretty shitty family life,

0:28:17.920 --> 0:28:20.760
<v Speaker 7>and I think she saw the opportunity and I thought

0:28:20.760 --> 0:28:23.840
<v Speaker 7>it was great because I thought, you know, she could

0:28:23.880 --> 0:28:26.480
<v Speaker 7>really make something of herself, and Hamish has the resources

0:28:26.480 --> 0:28:28.960
<v Speaker 7>to do that and facilitate whatever it is that she

0:28:29.000 --> 0:28:29.520
<v Speaker 7>wants to do.

0:28:30.600 --> 0:28:34.400
<v Speaker 1>And what did she talk when she went down to Sydney.

0:28:34.960 --> 0:28:36.800
<v Speaker 1>Did she say that she was going into an office

0:28:36.800 --> 0:28:37.200
<v Speaker 1>down there?

0:28:37.359 --> 0:28:39.640
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, what did she say? She told me that she'd

0:28:39.640 --> 0:28:40.480
<v Speaker 3>go into the office.

0:28:40.680 --> 0:28:43.760
<v Speaker 7>She'd help with kind of little things like coffee runs

0:28:43.840 --> 0:28:48.920
<v Speaker 7>and sitting in on meetings and just basically observing what

0:28:48.960 --> 0:28:51.719
<v Speaker 7>they're doing and how they do things. But she'd always

0:28:51.760 --> 0:28:54.520
<v Speaker 7>have these, you know, come back with these really nice clothes,

0:28:54.720 --> 0:28:57.719
<v Speaker 7>or her hair would be done or you know.

0:28:58.400 --> 0:29:02.160
<v Speaker 1>Jack has spent the years since trying to process what happened.

0:29:02.400 --> 0:29:05.520
<v Speaker 7>There's so many stories that are you know, even just

0:29:05.960 --> 0:29:07.720
<v Speaker 7>Hamish as well, like that, all the stories that he

0:29:07.720 --> 0:29:10.320
<v Speaker 7>always told me when I was growing up and like that,

0:29:10.400 --> 0:29:13.920
<v Speaker 7>I had even built models on are just I don't

0:29:13.960 --> 0:29:15.240
<v Speaker 7>know if you.

0:29:15.200 --> 0:29:17.080
<v Speaker 3>Know their fact or fiction or like.

0:29:17.120 --> 0:29:19.440
<v Speaker 7>That's when you're developing as a person and you need

0:29:19.480 --> 0:29:23.000
<v Speaker 7>like a role model kind of thing to base that off.

0:29:23.080 --> 0:29:26.680
<v Speaker 7>And it's hard when it's someone like that because you

0:29:26.720 --> 0:29:29.400
<v Speaker 7>don't know, you know, it's it's all bullshit, It could

0:29:29.400 --> 0:29:30.080
<v Speaker 7>all be bullshit.

0:29:30.320 --> 0:29:32.120
<v Speaker 1>Has it taken a while to kind of get over.

0:29:32.040 --> 0:29:33.160
<v Speaker 3>Them, Yeah, definitely.

0:29:33.240 --> 0:29:35.080
<v Speaker 7>I mean when it all kind of came out, I

0:29:35.160 --> 0:29:38.440
<v Speaker 7>was not good for a while, and even still I can't.

0:29:38.560 --> 0:29:40.720
<v Speaker 7>I find it so difficult to trust people on both

0:29:40.800 --> 0:29:45.800
<v Speaker 7>ends because of it as well, like a father, you know,

0:29:46.000 --> 0:29:49.200
<v Speaker 7>role model, and then also my girlfriend, who like your

0:29:49.200 --> 0:29:50.600
<v Speaker 7>first love kind of thing is so.

0:29:51.320 --> 0:29:54.240
<v Speaker 1>Because effectively your stepfather slept with your girl.

0:29:54.440 --> 0:29:57.640
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, they had an affair for I don't know how long,

0:29:57.680 --> 0:30:00.400
<v Speaker 7>but we're thinking, you know, at least eight months kind

0:30:00.440 --> 0:30:00.760
<v Speaker 7>of thing.

0:30:03.760 --> 0:30:07.000
<v Speaker 1>Sometime after she fled Blue's Beach, Jack got back in

0:30:07.000 --> 0:30:09.560
<v Speaker 1>contact with Jane. He needed some answers.

0:30:10.000 --> 0:30:12.080
<v Speaker 7>I think I wanted to contact her because Mum was

0:30:12.120 --> 0:30:17.760
<v Speaker 7>still unsure about everything and we just wanted closure and

0:30:17.800 --> 0:30:20.240
<v Speaker 7>we just wanted to hear it from her voice. I

0:30:20.280 --> 0:30:23.240
<v Speaker 7>guess even though it's not not that important, but it

0:30:23.360 --> 0:30:23.720
<v Speaker 7>sort of.

0:30:23.720 --> 0:30:24.760
<v Speaker 3>Was to us. Well.

0:30:24.800 --> 0:30:27.000
<v Speaker 7>She said that she had just been having an affair

0:30:27.040 --> 0:30:31.280
<v Speaker 7>with Hamish and he'd basically been grooming her, buying her

0:30:31.600 --> 0:30:34.080
<v Speaker 7>gifts and taking her out, you know, it's nice sinners,

0:30:34.080 --> 0:30:37.600
<v Speaker 7>and letting her ride in porsches and flying her to

0:30:38.600 --> 0:30:42.640
<v Speaker 7>know the US and whatnot. And I know that they

0:30:42.880 --> 0:30:47.080
<v Speaker 7>had a sexu relationship, and you know, they'd spend a

0:30:47.120 --> 0:30:50.640
<v Speaker 7>lot of time together. It kind of shifted from Hamish

0:30:50.680 --> 0:30:52.720
<v Speaker 7>and I are training and doing things all the time

0:30:52.800 --> 0:30:56.520
<v Speaker 7>to doing things all the time, and it's almost like

0:30:56.600 --> 0:30:58.280
<v Speaker 7>she kind of took that spot and.

0:31:00.120 --> 0:31:00.680
<v Speaker 3>The spotlight.

0:31:00.720 --> 0:31:03.600
<v Speaker 1>I guess, gosh, it must have been confusing for your mom.

0:31:03.440 --> 0:31:04.400
<v Speaker 3>Righto oh yeah.

0:31:04.480 --> 0:31:07.120
<v Speaker 7>That was probably the worst thing about it was the

0:31:07.120 --> 0:31:11.040
<v Speaker 7>fact that he could infiltrate off like our family unit

0:31:11.120 --> 0:31:14.360
<v Speaker 7>and turn me and my brother's against my mum. I

0:31:14.360 --> 0:31:16.960
<v Speaker 7>can recall one occasion when I was sitting on the

0:31:16.960 --> 0:31:20.600
<v Speaker 7>bed with my mom and Mom was making these accusations

0:31:20.840 --> 0:31:24.080
<v Speaker 7>that had been sleeping with Hamish and all these things

0:31:24.120 --> 0:31:27.560
<v Speaker 7>have been happening, and I just I thought she was crazy.

0:31:27.800 --> 0:31:28.640
<v Speaker 3>I was like, what do you mean?

0:31:28.720 --> 0:31:28.920
<v Speaker 5>Mom?

0:31:29.000 --> 0:31:33.600
<v Speaker 7>Like why would Hamish ever do this to us? What

0:31:33.680 --> 0:31:36.760
<v Speaker 7>you know, are you just getting jealous that they're doing

0:31:36.800 --> 0:31:39.840
<v Speaker 7>things and that she's doing all these great things in

0:31:39.880 --> 0:31:42.520
<v Speaker 7>her life. But yeah, it.

0:31:44.120 --> 0:31:46.120
<v Speaker 3>Was really hard, It was all true.

0:31:46.640 --> 0:31:52.960
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, I felt really betrayed and a bit silly, but

0:31:54.240 --> 0:31:57.440
<v Speaker 7>I still in a way felt sorry as well, because

0:31:58.080 --> 0:32:00.360
<v Speaker 7>she was only so young, and like I said, she

0:32:01.000 --> 0:32:05.440
<v Speaker 7>didn't have the greatest upbringing, and I think she just

0:32:05.480 --> 0:32:06.000
<v Speaker 7>saw it as.

0:32:05.880 --> 0:32:06.440
<v Speaker 3>A way out.

0:32:06.920 --> 0:32:08.680
<v Speaker 7>And as well because my mum took her in as

0:32:09.240 --> 0:32:12.800
<v Speaker 7>almost like her daughter, like she'd look after her and

0:32:12.880 --> 0:32:15.520
<v Speaker 7>they'd go down to Sydney together on trips, and I

0:32:15.600 --> 0:32:17.640
<v Speaker 7>really loved that they had a strong bond as well,

0:32:18.480 --> 0:32:20.880
<v Speaker 7>and that was probably you know, another thing that really

0:32:20.960 --> 0:32:22.880
<v Speaker 7>really hurt me was the fact that she did that

0:32:22.920 --> 0:32:23.800
<v Speaker 7>to my mom as well.

0:32:23.880 --> 0:32:25.000
<v Speaker 3>Probably more than.

0:32:25.560 --> 0:32:27.200
<v Speaker 7>How it felt about what she did to me, was

0:32:27.760 --> 0:32:29.760
<v Speaker 7>how much she betrayed my mom as well.

0:32:30.240 --> 0:32:33.000
<v Speaker 1>Jack says he's happy that finally Hamish's story is being

0:32:33.080 --> 0:32:36.560
<v Speaker 1>told and that Hamie she's not the one controlling the narrative.

0:32:37.040 --> 0:32:40.560
<v Speaker 7>I think it was just nice to hear that other

0:32:40.560 --> 0:32:43.240
<v Speaker 7>people had felt a similar way to how we had felt,

0:32:43.280 --> 0:32:46.800
<v Speaker 7>and also that our story was only such a small

0:32:46.840 --> 0:32:49.640
<v Speaker 7>part of this bigger thing that has come out, which

0:32:49.680 --> 0:32:51.600
<v Speaker 7>is so great that you know, all these people are

0:32:51.600 --> 0:32:55.600
<v Speaker 7>coming forward and the story is being told truthfully, which

0:32:55.680 --> 0:32:58.000
<v Speaker 7>is something that Hamish's never done. He's never told his

0:32:58.000 --> 0:33:02.120
<v Speaker 7>story the right way, and it seems like through this podcast,

0:33:02.160 --> 0:33:05.840
<v Speaker 7>his story is going to be told properly and he's

0:33:05.880 --> 0:33:08.000
<v Speaker 7>going to be brought to justice, which is I think

0:33:08.000 --> 0:33:09.840
<v Speaker 7>all that we can really ask for it.

0:33:09.840 --> 0:33:13.120
<v Speaker 1>At this point, he's still working his way through what

0:33:13.160 --> 0:33:13.880
<v Speaker 1>it all meant.

0:33:14.200 --> 0:33:17.240
<v Speaker 7>I think definitely just the way that it hurt my

0:33:17.320 --> 0:33:21.200
<v Speaker 7>mum because it took her ages to get over it,

0:33:21.240 --> 0:33:23.760
<v Speaker 7>and just the trust thing.

0:33:24.280 --> 0:33:28.840
<v Speaker 3>I find it still so difficult to trust people, especially.

0:33:30.280 --> 0:33:33.840
<v Speaker 7>Especially you know, like people that I'm intimate with or

0:33:34.240 --> 0:33:35.840
<v Speaker 7>I'm really scared to get close with a lot of

0:33:35.880 --> 0:33:38.560
<v Speaker 7>people because I always have this thing in the back

0:33:38.600 --> 0:33:41.160
<v Speaker 7>of my head where I think that they're trying to somehow,

0:33:42.120 --> 0:33:44.440
<v Speaker 7>you know, play me or get something out of me.

0:33:45.520 --> 0:33:49.080
<v Speaker 1>When Haimi spok from his mother, Jack tried to contact him.

0:33:49.400 --> 0:33:53.120
<v Speaker 7>Once I found out everything, more more than anything, I

0:33:53.160 --> 0:33:56.480
<v Speaker 7>just wanted to understand why, and you know, I wanted

0:33:56.480 --> 0:33:59.320
<v Speaker 7>to know what happened and why he did it just

0:33:59.360 --> 0:34:02.280
<v Speaker 7>for closure, and he just couldn't even give that to me.

0:34:02.600 --> 0:34:07.440
<v Speaker 7>He's so spineless, you know. He'd happily talk to you

0:34:07.480 --> 0:34:10.160
<v Speaker 7>about anything, or be there and comfort you when he

0:34:10.200 --> 0:34:11.759
<v Speaker 7>wanted something from you, But as soon as he was

0:34:11.800 --> 0:34:14.880
<v Speaker 7>done with you, it was just like he didn't exist anymore.

0:34:14.920 --> 0:34:17.040
<v Speaker 7>You couldn't couldn't get to him, wouldn't give you a

0:34:17.080 --> 0:34:17.880
<v Speaker 7>second of his time.

0:34:18.520 --> 0:34:22.120
<v Speaker 3>I think I just I just really want to understand

0:34:22.160 --> 0:34:24.840
<v Speaker 3>how how he works.

0:34:25.280 --> 0:34:28.279
<v Speaker 7>I feel like I've moved on past the stages of

0:34:28.800 --> 0:34:33.160
<v Speaker 7>being really angry at him, and you know, I just

0:34:33.200 --> 0:34:37.080
<v Speaker 7>want to understand why and how he could do it,

0:34:37.120 --> 0:34:40.400
<v Speaker 7>and like just what goes on in his head? How

0:34:40.400 --> 0:34:41.879
<v Speaker 7>did he get away with it for so long?

0:34:42.040 --> 0:34:45.320
<v Speaker 3>How? There's so many questions?

0:34:47.239 --> 0:34:50.800
<v Speaker 1>So what became of the million dollars Jane's grandparents invested

0:34:50.840 --> 0:34:54.560
<v Speaker 1>with Hamish? At one stage he told them that their

0:34:54.560 --> 0:34:58.360
<v Speaker 1>investment was worth more than ten million. It was a lie.

0:34:58.640 --> 0:35:02.200
<v Speaker 1>The money is gone and no one knows where. The

0:35:02.280 --> 0:35:07.120
<v Speaker 1>damage he caused was immense. Firstly, he ruined the relationship

0:35:07.160 --> 0:35:10.520
<v Speaker 1>between Jane and Jack. Do you think Hamuch split that

0:35:10.600 --> 0:35:11.040
<v Speaker 1>up as well?

0:35:12.600 --> 0:35:14.279
<v Speaker 4>Split it split them up?

0:35:15.320 --> 0:35:15.400
<v Speaker 5>Ye?

0:35:16.880 --> 0:35:19.880
<v Speaker 1>For a while, Hamish was depositing eight thousand dollars a

0:35:19.880 --> 0:35:22.000
<v Speaker 1>month in their account for them to live on.

0:35:22.560 --> 0:35:26.000
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, but it didn't last. Like I was continually on

0:35:26.080 --> 0:35:29.799
<v Speaker 4>the phone after I don't know, maybe one year, two

0:35:29.880 --> 0:35:34.719
<v Speaker 4>years or something after two saying we need money.

0:35:35.480 --> 0:35:38.480
<v Speaker 2>And what would he say, Yes.

0:35:38.400 --> 0:35:42.239
<v Speaker 4>Loss, it's coming, I'll get it. Da da da, Just

0:35:42.920 --> 0:35:46.000
<v Speaker 4>things like that. I always had an excuse. I mean

0:35:46.040 --> 0:35:49.040
<v Speaker 4>it was numerous times I said to him, right, well,

0:35:49.800 --> 0:35:52.640
<v Speaker 4>you know, I think we'll pull out. The last time

0:35:52.680 --> 0:35:54.640
<v Speaker 4>I said I'll have two and a half million, thanks,

0:35:54.960 --> 0:36:00.120
<v Speaker 4>and he said, well that's not plausible. Sorry, Loss. And

0:36:00.200 --> 0:36:03.960
<v Speaker 4>as if I tried, it would just feed as dribbles.

0:36:03.440 --> 0:36:07.719
<v Speaker 5>Wouldn't he Yeah, bits and pieces here and there. Then

0:36:08.400 --> 0:36:10.200
<v Speaker 5>in the end he wouldn't have a meeting with us.

0:36:10.600 --> 0:36:17.799
<v Speaker 5>Always won the meet on over the phone. Yeah, what

0:36:17.840 --> 0:36:19.719
<v Speaker 5>do you call it? You know when you can look

0:36:19.760 --> 0:36:24.480
<v Speaker 5>at each other and yeah, if I meet with you,

0:36:24.719 --> 0:36:26.160
<v Speaker 5>I want to be sitting at a table.

0:36:26.520 --> 0:36:28.520
<v Speaker 4>Sorry, I've been caught on the highway. And it was

0:36:28.520 --> 0:36:29.400
<v Speaker 4>always an excuse.

0:36:29.840 --> 0:36:32.960
<v Speaker 1>They feel terrible for recommending Hamish to their mates, Glen

0:36:32.960 --> 0:36:33.760
<v Speaker 1>and Vicki Picard.

0:36:34.120 --> 0:36:37.920
<v Speaker 4>We'll still talk on the phone with them and Glenn

0:36:38.040 --> 0:36:43.759
<v Speaker 4>often if anything came up or something came up in

0:36:43.840 --> 0:36:46.879
<v Speaker 4>the paper. I think it was about Hamish. So he said,

0:36:48.160 --> 0:36:51.400
<v Speaker 4>you know who's seen this and send it through, sends

0:36:51.400 --> 0:36:54.040
<v Speaker 4>a message when it's our birthday, that sort of scenario.

0:36:55.360 --> 0:36:58.360
<v Speaker 2>But we're all very busy.

0:36:58.520 --> 0:37:01.479
<v Speaker 1>And what do you have left now? This us this house. Yeah,

0:37:01.600 --> 0:37:04.080
<v Speaker 1>and you have to sell this house to downsize to

0:37:04.120 --> 0:37:04.759
<v Speaker 1>be able to live.

0:37:04.880 --> 0:37:08.200
<v Speaker 4>Is that that's what they plan. But over time we

0:37:08.360 --> 0:37:11.239
<v Speaker 4>come back here when I come back, because we've been

0:37:11.239 --> 0:37:14.760
<v Speaker 4>away for two and a half months up at our sons,

0:37:14.800 --> 0:37:17.799
<v Speaker 4>and I look at it and I think, I don't

0:37:17.840 --> 0:37:19.680
<v Speaker 4>know whether I want to leave. But you know, got

0:37:19.680 --> 0:37:21.480
<v Speaker 4>to be sensible about it, because we're still young.

0:37:22.640 --> 0:37:23.719
<v Speaker 1>How old you can I ask?

0:37:23.800 --> 0:37:27.359
<v Speaker 5>Sixty seven sixty seven, Peter sixty eight, sixty eight.

0:37:27.640 --> 0:37:31.880
<v Speaker 1>Right. And what of Jane, the Great Hope of the

0:37:31.880 --> 0:37:37.880
<v Speaker 1>Great Lakes. Well, the scholarship to Princeton never materialized. Her

0:37:37.880 --> 0:37:40.239
<v Speaker 1>grandma tells me she's working in a clothes shop in

0:37:40.280 --> 0:37:44.160
<v Speaker 1>a town further off the coast. In a text message

0:37:44.239 --> 0:37:47.840
<v Speaker 1>Jane sent me, she said, of Hamish, I firmly believe

0:37:47.920 --> 0:37:49.680
<v Speaker 1>he will pay for all he has done.

0:37:53.560 --> 0:37:56.839
<v Speaker 2>So it's yet eighteen birthday night he's my middle son

0:37:57.120 --> 0:37:58.920
<v Speaker 2>and brother.

0:38:01.120 --> 0:38:02.600
<v Speaker 1>Their band perform.

0:38:05.640 --> 0:38:10.480
<v Speaker 2>We're a bit scared because it's a Facebook invitation and

0:38:10.520 --> 0:38:13.960
<v Speaker 2>i'm security and adults.

0:38:14.960 --> 0:38:17.880
<v Speaker 1>Tonight there's an eighteenth birthday for one of Beck's sons.

0:38:18.480 --> 0:38:21.879
<v Speaker 1>It's a time for reflection. What a train wreck those

0:38:21.880 --> 0:38:25.440
<v Speaker 1>Hamie shes were for all of them, Beck, her boys, Jane,

0:38:26.200 --> 0:38:30.680
<v Speaker 1>Jane's grandparents, Varin and Peter. What they don't know is

0:38:30.719 --> 0:38:33.160
<v Speaker 1>that none of this should have happened. Hamie should never

0:38:33.200 --> 0:38:35.400
<v Speaker 1>have showed up in blue his beach with a beautiful

0:38:35.400 --> 0:38:38.759
<v Speaker 1>woman on his arm. Beck Rosen should never have fallen

0:38:38.800 --> 0:38:40.960
<v Speaker 1>in love with a guy who had run off with

0:38:41.040 --> 0:38:45.800
<v Speaker 1>Jack's sweetheart. Jane should have finished university by now instead

0:38:45.840 --> 0:38:49.279
<v Speaker 1>of being lied to about Princeton. Glenn Picard should be

0:38:49.360 --> 0:38:53.040
<v Speaker 1>kayaking down the coast and then enjoying a beer overlooking

0:38:53.040 --> 0:38:57.040
<v Speaker 1>the water with his wife Vicky. Tracy Hall should never

0:38:57.080 --> 0:38:58.920
<v Speaker 1>have woken one morning to find out the man she

0:38:59.040 --> 0:39:04.800
<v Speaker 1>loved existed. He manipulated and deceived them all. But it

0:39:04.840 --> 0:39:08.680
<v Speaker 1>should never have happened. Why Because HAMI should have been

0:39:08.719 --> 0:39:12.200
<v Speaker 1>in jail In two thousand and seven, the New South

0:39:12.239 --> 0:39:16.080
<v Speaker 1>Wales Fraud Squad and the Australian Federal Police will sent

0:39:16.120 --> 0:39:20.879
<v Speaker 1>a bundle of documents. The covering letter outlined more than

0:39:20.880 --> 0:39:24.200
<v Speaker 1>twenty million dollars worth of fraud committed by Hamish Watson

0:39:24.400 --> 0:39:28.560
<v Speaker 1>in the late nineties and early two thousands. One of

0:39:28.560 --> 0:39:31.760
<v Speaker 1>Hamish's victims had spent years compiling evidence of his crimes.

0:39:32.640 --> 0:39:34.439
<v Speaker 1>This should have been the outline of a solid brief

0:39:34.520 --> 0:39:37.200
<v Speaker 1>of evidence that would have put him behind bars for years,

0:39:37.920 --> 0:39:54.399
<v Speaker 1>but Hamish slipped the net yet again. Who the Hell

0:39:54.440 --> 0:39:57.960
<v Speaker 1>Is Hamish's brought to you by The Australian newspaper. It

0:39:58.040 --> 0:40:01.120
<v Speaker 1>was written and presented by me Greg Barer and produced

0:40:01.120 --> 0:40:05.320
<v Speaker 1>by Nicholas Adams Jazzbar. The executive producer is Eric George.

0:40:06.239 --> 0:40:09.200
<v Speaker 1>If you know more about Hamish, please contact us at

0:40:09.440 --> 0:40:14.480
<v Speaker 1>Hamish Podcast at the Australian dot com dot au. You

0:40:14.520 --> 0:40:16.840
<v Speaker 1>can subscribe to this series in your podcast app of

0:40:16.920 --> 0:40:21.399
<v Speaker 1>choice to keep track of all future episodes. To learn

0:40:21.400 --> 0:40:24.520
<v Speaker 1>more about our investigation, head to who the Hell Is

0:40:24.560 --> 0:40:29.120
<v Speaker 1>Hamish dot com dot au. They will also find additional material,

0:40:29.680 --> 0:40:33.840
<v Speaker 1>including this week's bonus episode, an extended interview with Jack Rosen.

0:40:35.920 --> 0:40:39.239
<v Speaker 1>If issues in this episode have cause distress, please call

0:40:39.239 --> 0:40:42.919
<v Speaker 1>a lifeline on one three double one one four