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Speaker 1: Everybody has their own reasons for watching or not watching

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Speaker 1: reality television. In my experience as the host of a

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Speaker 1: very long running series of reality television formats, I'd.

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Speaker 2: Often get people go, oh, yeah, I know, watch your show,

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Speaker 2: and then they would proceed tell me all kinds of

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Speaker 2: things about storylines and plotlines and character arts of people

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Speaker 2: from across multiple seasons.

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Speaker 1: You do watch the show, mate, I know you do,

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Speaker 1: But why why do you watch them? Because we want

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Speaker 1: to have some perspective on our own romantic lives. There

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Speaker 1: really is nothing like reality television to make you think

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Speaker 1: about the reality of your own romantic life. Is there

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Speaker 1: one very very internationally popular reality TV franchise that definitely

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Speaker 1: makes people think and talk about their romantic lives? And

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Speaker 1: oh my god, at least I'm not like that is

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Speaker 1: about to wrap up for the year. But when it

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Speaker 1: started a couple of months ago, there was the big

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Speaker 1: what we call it in television, we call it the

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Speaker 1: super tease. This season on Better Than Yesterday, Well I

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Speaker 1: can't believe we even did it, and then it goes

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Speaker 1: for like the four minutes is what we call the

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Speaker 1: super tease, right, So at the very start of the

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Speaker 1: season and the super tease cold open before the first

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Speaker 1: for the credits whatever the voiceover first line of the

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Speaker 1: season singles of Australia are facing a dating crisis. Yes,

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Speaker 1: it's dramatic, but there might be some actual reality to

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Speaker 1: that line after all. And if so, does it have

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Speaker 1: anything to do with the way that people are now

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Speaker 1: getting about how they date, how they interact with each other,

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Speaker 1: how they find connection and the tools that they use

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Speaker 1: to see each other, to find each other, to seek

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Speaker 1: out that emotional and physical connection and the culture that

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Speaker 1: then creates. Is it good? Is it bad? Is it healthy?

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Speaker 1: Is it unhealthy? What are some ways we could do

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Speaker 1: it differently? These are complicated questions you need a PhD

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Speaker 1: to answer them. Thankfully, my guest today does see after

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Speaker 1: the break get a welcome to the show. This is

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Speaker 1: Better than Yesterday, making a better every week since twenty

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Speaker 1: and thirteen. My name Zosha Ginsburg, and I'm so glad

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Speaker 1: you hear because this podcast it does what it says

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Speaker 1: on the box. Something that you hear on this show

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Speaker 1: today and every show will make your day better than yesterday.

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Speaker 1: That is what we make this show for. That is

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Speaker 1: what you designed the show to do. And I guarantee

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Speaker 1: it's going to happen today very quickly. There are some

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Speaker 1: tickets still around for Story Club on the thirteenth at

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Speaker 1: the Factory Theater in Marrickville. If you can't make it

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Speaker 1: to the show, we have a sub stack which you

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Speaker 1: can get on and see some stories there. But if

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Speaker 1: you want to come to the show, there's still a

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Speaker 1: few tickets left. The linker is in the show notes.

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Speaker 1: It's myself Lindza McDougal from Friends of rom Duncan Fellows,

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Speaker 1: who played Ray Pyes in Deadlock, one of the most

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Speaker 1: fantastic season the last few years. Analy's constable, great comedian,

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Speaker 1: great writer, Zoe on Lodge and Alex Lee, who's just

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Speaker 1: freaking brilliant. We're going to sit in a big chair

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Speaker 1: and tell you stories and you will laugh. I guarantee

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Speaker 1: that too. If you never know a comedy show, come along.

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Speaker 1: It's not stand up. You don't get picked on, but

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Speaker 1: it'll be great. Tickets in the show notes. So we're

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Speaker 1: talking about dating apps. I do talk about it in

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Speaker 1: the show today, but I did have a couple of

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Speaker 1: horrific months on the Swipey Swipes and I did not

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Speaker 1: like it at all. That experience leads eventually to me

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Speaker 1: getting a TV job in the dating space. But that's

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Speaker 1: another story. But if you're like me, if you ever

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Speaker 1: had any questions about dating apps, you'd be wondering, like,

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Speaker 1: this stuff is so complicated, I need a PhD to

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Speaker 1: figure it out. And thankfully my guest today has a

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Speaker 1: PhD in this sort of stuff. She's a Dating app doctorate.

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Speaker 1: Lisa Portaland is an author and academic based in Sydney

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Speaker 1: and outside of her books, the latest of which being

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Speaker 1: Ten Ways to Find Love and How to Keep It,

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Speaker 1: a Guide to Romance in the digital world, she's often

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Speaker 1: called upon because of the research that she's done, the

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Speaker 1: extensive research that I've done, and the depth of knowledge

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Speaker 1: that she has. She's often called upon the public eye

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Speaker 1: to speak and to comment when we noticed there's big

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Speaker 1: milestones that we've just sailed past in the way that

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Speaker 1: we connect with each other intimately, emotionally, physically and socially.

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Speaker 1: If you've ever had a question about why the people

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Speaker 1: that you meet online aren't really seeming to ever want

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Speaker 1: to really commit, Lisa has the best answer. I know

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Speaker 1: you're going to enjoy this conversation. Well, thanks so much

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Speaker 1: for coming in. How are you, Lisa?

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Speaker 2: You good?

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Speaker 3: I'm very well.

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Speaker 1: How are you well? I'm still shuddering a little bit

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Speaker 1: from getting ready for this while remembering those horrible months

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Speaker 1: that I spent in Swipetown.

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Speaker 3: Yes, okay, so you are familiar with dating apps.

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Speaker 1: Early on, right, yeah, early on dating apps. I'll tell

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Speaker 1: you my experience later. But what was it that led

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Speaker 1: you to want to explore what's happening in this space? Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Okay, So I I started my research in twenty eighteen,

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Speaker 3: and back then I was working in this big PR

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Speaker 3: agency and we all sat in this sort of open

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Speaker 3: floor plan and you know, so I could hear all

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Speaker 3: of the discussions that were going on early morning, and

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Speaker 3: there was a lot of you know, I met him online.

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Speaker 3: I met him on this dating app where I saw

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Speaker 3: her on the dating app, and you know, we matched,

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Speaker 3: We talked. He sent me this what do you make

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Speaker 3: of this? Like advice wise? And I thought, you know,

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Speaker 3: it struck me that it was, you know, it was

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Speaker 3: a real departure from how people had previously met, you know,

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Speaker 3: and suddenly it was the norm.

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Speaker 1: Are you in a relationship at the time.

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Speaker 3: At the time I was in a relationship. Yes, So

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Speaker 3: I had never used dating apps, and I had only

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Speaker 3: really met people face to face, which was kind of

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Speaker 3: like the world back in.

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Speaker 1: The day, and up until maybe fifteen years ago, yes, correct,

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Speaker 1: maybe even more maybe twenty years ago.

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Speaker 3: Correct, correct, So a very compressed timeline, and all of

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Speaker 3: a sudden, people are meeting online, and I felt like

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Speaker 3: it was a really unexplored territory. So there was no

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Speaker 3: one looking at the impacts of what would happen, you know,

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Speaker 3: if everyone was meeting online, you know what was the

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Speaker 3: end result for relationships, for how we presented ourselves in

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Speaker 3: the online environments, and for dynamics between people.

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Speaker 1: It's the same with any gentrification of a city. It's

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Speaker 1: the gays to go first.

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Speaker 3: It's very true.

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Speaker 1: If you're true. My gabe Briyler has a theory. It's like,

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Speaker 1: if you want to know where the property is going

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Speaker 1: to go, follow the lesbians. Lesbians go first, then the

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Speaker 1: gays come, and then the straits come, and then by

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Speaker 1: then the lesbians are two suburbs down. So and his

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Speaker 1: husband moved into reservoir in Victoria in Melbourne, which was

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Speaker 1: still like fairly right, but by the time they were oh,

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Speaker 1: we were late. I don't know, you know, Fawn and

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Speaker 1: Fiona Hill the next door or like they were here

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Speaker 1: way before.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely absolutely, And this is

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Speaker 3: very true in the dating app plandscape. So if we

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Speaker 3: went back to life, you know, RSVP and e harmony

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Speaker 3: like kinds of the computer based so desktop sort of thing,

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Speaker 3: we could go back into like nineteen ninety. But dating

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Speaker 3: apps sort of kicked off with Grinder in two thousand

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Speaker 3: and nine.

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Speaker 1: It was one before that, I think it was it

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Speaker 1: was it was called Manhunt or something.

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Speaker 3: Potentially potentially it became sort of a mainstream.

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Speaker 1: But even then, I just I just remember just the

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Speaker 1: the rapid turnover and the I mean, not everyone is

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Speaker 1: that not everyone who identifies as homosexual? Is that my

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Speaker 1: brother being one of them? Yeah? But I had plenty

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Speaker 1: of mates who were in that one of the stories,

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Speaker 1: like you see that, and I was like, that is

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Speaker 1: a mighty penis who goes that guy is going to

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Speaker 1: be here in twelve minutes, So you're going to have

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Speaker 1: to go when did this happened? He goes twenty minutes ago?

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Speaker 3: Okay, Yeah, so I think you know, definitely within that space.

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Speaker 3: The other part is that you know, historically it hasn't

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Speaker 3: necessarily been safe for men to meet other men or

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Speaker 3: to approach other men as well. So obviously, you know,

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Speaker 3: it took off within the technology space because it kind of,

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Speaker 3: you know, took that you know, it added, believe it

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Speaker 3: or not, a level of safety to kind of approaching someone,

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Speaker 3: which these days has obviously become a critical concern within

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Speaker 3: the dating app space, that entire safety dialogue. But it

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Speaker 3: was kind of different for gays back in the day.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but there were the I guess what I'm alluding

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Speaker 1: to is the transactional nature of those relationships was absolutely

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Speaker 1: it was a feature, not a you know, a bug

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Speaker 1: of what that was. It was like, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: nobody's asking questions, and no one's here for anything, and

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Speaker 1: it's a bespoke dropping menu of you know, cut uncut bear,

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Speaker 1: not bare backpack or whatever you want to call it. Like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and that's it. I'm going to get just what I

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Speaker 1: want and then they go and that was it. But

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Speaker 1: over time, and we might get into this later on

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Speaker 1: what has happened in the straight world. Yeah, I know

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Speaker 1: this from conversations with people in the workspace that I

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Speaker 1: have when I get to speak with twenty four single

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Speaker 1: women at a time, when I'm doing a show like Bachelor,

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Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, I'm asking questions like oh yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's a bit like that, So I would like get

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Speaker 1: into the nature of that. So you're this must have

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Speaker 1: sounded like a very strange world to you when you're

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Speaker 1: you know, your relationship and you're hearing people talking about

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Speaker 1: swiping and matching and going out and being either thrilled

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Speaker 1: or disappointed with what they found.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely, So it seemed like a very strange world.

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Speaker 3: And I felt like there had been no studies in

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Speaker 3: terms of the impact of what this would actually do

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Speaker 3: to society and culture and to people who were in relationships,

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Speaker 3: and also in terms of how they were presenting themselves.

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Speaker 3: And at that point in time, I guess when I

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Speaker 3: presented it as a piece of research, there was kind

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Speaker 3: of a bit of a sense it was polarized and

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Speaker 3: it was a little bit controversial. So there were people

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Speaker 3: in the mix that were like, this is a great

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Speaker 3: piece of research, and you know, it really demonstrates the

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Speaker 3: impact of technology in terms of love and intimacy in

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Speaker 3: terms of contemporary culture, and there were people that were

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Speaker 3: kind of like, well, this is a piece of fluff

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Speaker 3: and not very relevant. So it was a bit of

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Speaker 3: a fight to sort of, you know, get it over

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Speaker 3: the line and people on board with it. But obviously

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Speaker 3: today it's incredibly relevant.

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Speaker 1: In our community in Australia, at least in a modern

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Speaker 1: Australian community, let's say the modern kind of western oriented

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Speaker 1: Australian community. We're a very multicultural society, so not everyone

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Speaker 1: has courtship rituals like us, but in the kind of

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Speaker 1: modern secular majority of Australia, yes, the last fifty years

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Speaker 1: or so, we're largely seen as breaking free of the

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Speaker 1: shackles of on you can't date him because he's from Dara. Yes,

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Speaker 1: he's from Dara and you're from Albion. That doesn't happen.

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Speaker 1: That's wrong side of the tracks. You don't go out

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Speaker 1: with the boy from over there. Yeah, And so the

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Speaker 1: way that we meet each other and you know, what's

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Speaker 1: acceptable as to who we do and don't date, it

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Speaker 1: was very, very open for a long time. Yeah, I'm

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Speaker 1: interested to know what effect has dating apps had upon that.

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Speaker 1: Are we still looking far and wide or are we

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Speaker 1: because of the nature of the interfaces and things and

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Speaker 1: we're finding ourselves just kind of reducing our dating pool

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Speaker 1: and co even more.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think this is a really interesting angle. And

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Speaker 3: I think, as you kind of alluded to, dating rituals

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Speaker 3: have been in place for hundreds of years in terms of,

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Speaker 3: you know, how people navigate relationships, and if we were

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Speaker 3: to look at you know, two hundred years ago, it

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Speaker 3: was kind of it was to that. It was the

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Speaker 3: families and the transaction and you have to be of

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Speaker 3: a certain social straft and all that sort of stuff.

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Speaker 3: And as we've moved forward through time, kind of the

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Speaker 3: shackles have come off.

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Speaker 1: I know, he's a nice guy, but that guy over there,

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Speaker 1: we're going to get four cows. Right, You're to marry him.

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Speaker 3: That's right, that's right.

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Speaker 1: And sorry, yes, he's got nothing to.

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Speaker 3: Do with you. Yeah, and kind of, you know, our

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Speaker 3: contemporary idea of romance is is fairly new, so it's

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Speaker 3: probably you know, one hundred, one hundred and fifty years old.

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Speaker 3: It kind of lines up with the birth of the

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Speaker 3: novel and the birth of narrative as well. So our

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Speaker 3: ideas around you know, our partner sort of having to

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Speaker 3: fill multiple different roles within our life, you know, whether

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Speaker 3: it be you know, from a romance perspective, conversational, intellectual,

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Speaker 3: like kind of everything for us. You know, that's a

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Speaker 3: very contemporary sort of idea and you know, certainly yes,

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Speaker 3: so we saw that sort of opening up of the

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Speaker 3: barriers in terms of dating, and definitely dating apps should

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Speaker 3: sort of increase that because they give you access to

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Speaker 3: a plethora of people who you wouldn't usually have access to.

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Speaker 3: So usually you'd sort of, you know, it'd be family

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Speaker 3: friends who would connect you with other people the workspace.

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Speaker 3: So dating apps kind of give you the ability to go, hey,

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Speaker 3: I'm in Sydney. I can meet someone from Paramatta or

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Speaker 3: from Bathurst or wherever it might be. So it's a

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Speaker 3: completely different group of people. But at the same time,

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Speaker 3: you know, people do fall into different narratives. So for example,

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Speaker 3: you know, you might know that with different dating apps

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Speaker 3: you can close down the radius around your particular location,

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Speaker 3: so you might choose to have a five kilometer radius

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Speaker 3: and that's sort of a bit of a luxury. So

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Speaker 3: if you live in a place where there is a

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Speaker 3: lot of people, that means you can have the luxury

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Speaker 3: of closing down the location and not have to travel

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Speaker 3: to date. But if you do live in Bathurst where

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Speaker 3: the pool might be smaller and I'm sorry, I've caught

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Speaker 3: out Bathurst in particular, but just go Orange.

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Speaker 1: How far we could keep going? Or we could go

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Speaker 1: to Womba, we could go Dolby, we could go out

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Speaker 1: of Brisbane, or we could go to Castlemaye, we can

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Speaker 1: go out of Melbourne. You're like, wherever you want to go?

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. So look, if you live in one of

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Speaker 3: those smaller places and there's you know, a smaller group

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Speaker 3: of people that you can sort of connect with who

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Speaker 3: you would probably know, then obviously it does sort of

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Speaker 3: broaden the horizons house.

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Speaker 1: The first time I think I heard of a dating app,

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Speaker 1: and it was before anything, I think it was a

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Speaker 1: desktop service and that it was for Iceland, when people

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Speaker 1: just kind of had to if they met each other

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Speaker 1: because it's such a small community and so isolated, they

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Speaker 1: just did have to like type each other's name into

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Speaker 1: this website to make sure that they weren't somehow related. Yes,

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Speaker 1: it was a Department of healthing to go like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's gonna be a little less genetic issues if you

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Speaker 1: guys don't breed. Yes, sorry, I know you might dig

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Speaker 1: each other, but maybe not so the I mean, my

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Speaker 1: own personal experience with dating apps is very negative. I'd

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Speaker 1: like to know through the research you've done. You know

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Speaker 1: there's people who are essentially they've never known another way

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Speaker 1: to date correct, Right, So what are some things that

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Speaker 1: people accept as normal as this is just what happens,

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Speaker 1: which are actually abnormal and possibly unhealthy or possibly not

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Speaker 1: great for us.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. I think one of the key elements is around safety.

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Speaker 3: So you know, way back when I conducted my research

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Speaker 3: in twenty twenty, the majority of women and people within

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Speaker 3: vulnerable audiences would talk about online safety and violence that

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Speaker 3: happened on dating apps and that could you know, span

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Speaker 3: from anything from negative comments to images that they were

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Speaker 3: sent through to stalking. So there was you know, one

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Speaker 3: particular person who someone had basically pieced together who they

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Speaker 3: were from the breadcrumbs of them on the digital domains Instagram, Facebook, etc.

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Speaker 3: And had turned up at their house. So there was

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Speaker 3: a vast stretch of difference within what was going on.

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Speaker 3: But it was violent behavior and the issue there was

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Speaker 3: that people would often report it to dating apps and

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Speaker 3: it would fall into a black hole, so they'd never

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Speaker 3: get a response around it. They'd block the person and

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Speaker 3: then the person would turn up under a different guys,

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Speaker 3: or they would turn up on a different app and

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Speaker 3: the behavior would continue. So that's a critical issue which

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Speaker 3: you know, we have sort of come along in terms

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Speaker 3: of strides now that there's the Dating App Voluntary Code

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Speaker 3: which was in place last year in terms of putting

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Speaker 3: some levels of protection in place, but I'm not quite

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Speaker 3: sure whether or not it's gone far enough. The second

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Speaker 3: thing I'd talk about is really around reinforcing this idea

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Speaker 3: of disposability in relationships and in intimacies. So it's kind

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Speaker 3: of like the uber eats of dating, the idea that

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Speaker 3: there is always someone better on the other side, that

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Speaker 3: the grass is always greener, that you can never fully

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Speaker 3: do Tinder, you can just continue swiping, which kind of

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Speaker 3: creates this sense of disposable within relationships, within intimacy and

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Speaker 3: love as well. The other thing that I would sort

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Speaker 3: of talk to is really around the judgmental nature that

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Speaker 3: it tends to reinforce because it is a highly visual economy.

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Speaker 3: It is a visual economy, right, so in real life, yes,

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Speaker 3: I would see you, but I pick up on all

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Speaker 3: these other prompts in terms of how you talk, are

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Speaker 3: you smarterre you funny, how do you use your hands?

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Speaker 3: Are you quirky? Which go towards building the future you listen, yes,

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Speaker 3: go towards building the picture of who this person is

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Speaker 3: and whether or not there's a chemistry between us. But

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Speaker 3: on a dating app, all you have is the image.

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Speaker 3: So it really highlights this visual economy and it starts to,

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Speaker 3: I guess, aggregate this notion of what is considered to

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Speaker 3: be attractive and create ideas around what's attractive and what's not.

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Speaker 1: We've already like we've always had that. We did all

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Speaker 1: kind of align you know, with ideas that were put

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Speaker 1: out into the world visually anyway. However, we didn't really

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Speaker 1: have the just instantaneous yet nah nah, yeah, nah nah.

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Speaker 1: And what it is to you know, get in this

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Speaker 1: commodified space when it comes to like you think about

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Speaker 1: a social media post with your likes or you know,

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Speaker 1: read tweets or comments or whatever. There's a certain amount

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Speaker 1: of butt that a young lady can put on a

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Speaker 1: photo that will pretty much we'll guarantee a lot more

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Speaker 1: of those things versus different amount of butt. And that

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Speaker 1: has been happening for the last ten fifteen years or so,

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Speaker 1: so that when that translates to what photo do I

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Speaker 1: put up? Yeah, well I can't put up that one

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Speaker 1: not enough, but.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think you raise an interesting point. There's

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Speaker 3: there's been a study that's come out recently in Australia

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Speaker 3: around the link between dating apps and women getting cosmetic surgery.

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Speaker 3: So the study found that women that use dating apps

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Speaker 3: are more likely to get cosmetic surgery. Great, very interesting study.

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Speaker 3: And the only thing that I would pick apart with

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Speaker 3: in the mix was that it was just women that

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Speaker 3: were part of the sample. Now, my research would indicate

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Speaker 3: that men were hyper conscious of what they looked like

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Speaker 3: on dating apps as well. It was not uncommon for

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Speaker 3: men within my focus groups to say, oh, I'm going

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Speaker 3: to put a filter on this, or I'm going to

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Speaker 3: select the images that make me look more mask particular

365
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Speaker 3: lead within the queer sort of community in particular, so

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Speaker 3: there was definitely this curation of imagery to the point

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Speaker 3: where people felt like they had to add filters, or

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Speaker 3: they had to slim themselves down using a particular app,

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Speaker 3: or they had to make themselves look more masculine or

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Speaker 3: whatever they thought was going to be more attractive within

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Speaker 3: that space. So certainly I think that that as you said,

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Speaker 3: that sort of yes, no sort of action makes people

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Speaker 3: hyper conscious that they have to be presenting this super

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Speaker 3: attractive version of themselves and not you know, attractive is

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Speaker 3: you know a spectrum. Someone can find someone attractive who

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Speaker 3: you know, looks, quirky, whatever it might be. But we're

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Speaker 3: leaning towards certain things that we're finding attractive within this

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Speaker 3: space that have been exasperated. And I'm going to say it,

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Speaker 3: I cannot say that word. I never say.

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Speaker 1: Won wonderful. We'll send you a recording you can just

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Speaker 1: use it every time.

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Speaker 3: So, yes, social media has had this impact on creating

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Speaker 3: what we think is attractive and what's not.

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Speaker 1: And so somebody who's like, I don't know, say, in

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Speaker 1: their early twenties twenty three, twenty four, finding no matches

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Speaker 1: when you wake up in the morning, or no matches

387
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Speaker 1: by the end of the day. What have you found

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Speaker 1: that does to someone on the way they feel about themselves.

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Speaker 3: Look, it had a really negative impact on people's self esteem.

390
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Speaker 3: So people were pretty open about it, and they would

391
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Speaker 3: say things like I feel really sheet after using dating

392
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Speaker 3: apps like my self esteem just drops. People would describe

393
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Speaker 3: it as death by a thousand paper cuts. So it

394
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Speaker 3: would kind of be just many many interactions that were

395
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Speaker 3: just inappropriate ghostings, you know, unmatching, not getting matches, all

396
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Speaker 3: of those sorts of things in the mix. And many

397
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Speaker 3: people would sort of come to the folks scripts and say,

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Speaker 3: you know, before I was on dating apps, I kind

399
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Speaker 3: of had, you know, a healthier view of myself in

400
00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:09,800
Speaker 3: terms of, you know, what I looked like, who I was,

401
00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:13,159
Speaker 3: and now I just feel pretty shit about myself. So

402
00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:17,240
Speaker 3: this was definitely a common thing that came through my research.

403
00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:22,560
Speaker 1: When you are feeling that way about yourself, you feel lonely,

404
00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:26,440
Speaker 1: you feel alone, you want company. Where's the first place

405
00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:26,719
Speaker 1: you go?

406
00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:32,320
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, you go right back. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. So

407
00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:35,480
Speaker 3: one of my findings was around the circular nature of

408
00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:39,280
Speaker 3: dating apps. And you know, I did my research during COVID,

409
00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:43,840
Speaker 3: so people really we were in lockdown and didn't they

410
00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:47,000
Speaker 3: didn't really have any other alternatives, so they had to

411
00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:50,360
Speaker 3: go on the dating apps if they were single, and

412
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Speaker 3: you know, people would talk about and it was quite

413
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Speaker 3: an emotional response, like people would cry about it, they'd

414
00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:59,480
Speaker 3: be angry about it. They'd say things like, you know,

415
00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:02,919
Speaker 3: the long relationship, well, the only relationship I'm having is

416
00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:07,800
Speaker 3: with the dating app itself. But yeah, it was Yeah,

417
00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:10,160
Speaker 3: So what they would tend to do was they would

418
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Speaker 3: go on the dating apps, they'd engage, there'd be a

419
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Speaker 3: lot of busyness, and then there would be a lot

420
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Speaker 3: of these paper cuts, and then they would delete the

421
00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:23,399
Speaker 3: dating apps and go through a period of time of

422
00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:26,120
Speaker 3: you know, not actually being able to meet anyone face

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Speaker 3: to face, and then just cycle back on and the

424
00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:30,719
Speaker 3: cycle would continue.

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Speaker 1: The death boy A thousand less call, one thousands wipes. Ye.

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Speaker 1: Those could also be I'm going on a date with someone.

427
00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:43,480
Speaker 1: You get there, she doesn't look like she looked in

428
00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:48,040
Speaker 1: her photo. Yes, and she's not actually as delightful and

429
00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:53,000
Speaker 1: funny as you know in conversation than when she's got

430
00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:55,439
Speaker 1: five minutes to think of something to text back yes

431
00:23:55,760 --> 00:24:02,000
Speaker 1: and no, actually there's no nothing there And okay, then

432
00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:05,720
Speaker 1: that's been nice to see you, you know, goodbye, you know,

433
00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:11,040
Speaker 1: And back to the drawing point, yea, or like you know,

434
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:16,240
Speaker 1: it's it's just weird, and because of the transactional nature

435
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:20,639
Speaker 1: of it, like in my experience, which was after I

436
00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:23,159
Speaker 1: got divorced, it was super weird. I got divorced at

437
00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:26,520
Speaker 1: the end of twenty eleven, and I was being honest,

438
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:29,000
Speaker 1: I put a photo of my actual self up as

439
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:32,199
Speaker 1: I looked that time and I didn't put old photos up,

440
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:35,199
Speaker 1: and I was very honest going you know, I'm what

441
00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:38,360
Speaker 1: did I write? I was like a vegan, sober, exceptionally

442
00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:41,440
Speaker 1: good at parallel parking. Oh great, that was my strap line. Yes,

443
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:44,800
Speaker 1: that last line got me way more interesting people to

444
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:47,479
Speaker 1: talk to than anything else. But I'd go on these

445
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:52,240
Speaker 1: days with people. And if I went on, like say,

446
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:53,600
Speaker 1: I don't know if I I could start with a

447
00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:56,919
Speaker 1: couple of coffee, right, If I went on coffee with

448
00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:59,840
Speaker 1: five people, four of them were already in a relationship

449
00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:03,320
Speaker 1: and their boyfriend was out of town or you know,

450
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:05,640
Speaker 1: husband was somewhere else, and they were trying to line

451
00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:09,000
Speaker 1: something up, like no, who, this is terrible, Yeah, I

452
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:10,919
Speaker 1: don't want this. Maybe it was because I was forty

453
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:13,800
Speaker 1: thirty nine to forty at the time. It was the worst, man,

454
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:16,240
Speaker 1: it was the worst. I think. The other thing that

455
00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:19,160
Speaker 1: I've noticed is I've spoken to people who are younger

456
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:20,879
Speaker 1: than me, and they'll be on a date with someone

457
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:24,240
Speaker 1: and they're just a little bit checked out because they

458
00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:26,080
Speaker 1: might have had dinner at seven, but they really have

459
00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:28,399
Speaker 1: to go because it's an early no. No, no, they're meeting

460
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:34,200
Speaker 1: someone else at eleven. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And it's kind

461
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:39,240
Speaker 1: of when there's such availability for both men and women,

462
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:44,359
Speaker 1: what does that do to our own willingness to stick

463
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:46,440
Speaker 1: through stuff that might be a little bit challenging.

464
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:50,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, look, I think this came up a lot too,

465
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:55,040
Speaker 3: and definitely definitely within I wouldn't say an older cohort,

466
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:57,720
Speaker 3: but you know, sort of like forty plus who have

467
00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:02,320
Speaker 3: previously been in long term relationships, been married and then

468
00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:06,320
Speaker 3: sort of had to go onto the dating app spaces,

469
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:08,919
Speaker 3: and you know they talk about you know, back in

470
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:12,639
Speaker 3: the day when I was in my twenties, I would

471
00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:16,280
Speaker 3: meet maybe a couple of people every quarter, you know,

472
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:19,359
Speaker 3: and go on a few dates here and there. But

473
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:24,119
Speaker 3: it wasn't this availability, this plethora of availability. So you know,

474
00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:25,960
Speaker 3: if you went on a date and it was a

475
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,600
Speaker 3: little bit boring or whatever it might be, you would

476
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:31,520
Speaker 3: give it a second go because you were conscious of

477
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:33,919
Speaker 3: the fact that you know, there was not going to

478
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:37,240
Speaker 3: be someone at the next wipe. But now I'm in

479
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:40,479
Speaker 3: a situation where there is this plethora of a people,

480
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:43,960
Speaker 3: there's this availability of people, and so as soon as

481
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:47,440
Speaker 3: they do something or say something that is a bit ick,

482
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 3: I just go move on onto the next.

483
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:53,879
Speaker 1: Is it ick or is it someone who just holds

484
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:55,879
Speaker 1: a different set of values and might even just be

485
00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:58,600
Speaker 1: pointing out something in you that you don't like, and

486
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:02,520
Speaker 1: you just don't like being challenged. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.

487
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:07,320
Speaker 3: It kind of takes away the potential to negotiate or

488
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:10,920
Speaker 3: to sort of, you know, consider what you're doing wrong,

489
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:14,159
Speaker 3: or you know, all of those sorts of details that

490
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:16,920
Speaker 3: should come up. It takes all of those things away.

491
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:19,560
Speaker 1: All those things are a really important part in the

492
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:23,440
Speaker 1: survival of a long term relationship. This is the those

493
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 1: are the early stages of learning how to communicate and

494
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:30,840
Speaker 1: cohabit with another person. You've got to figure that part

495
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:35,359
Speaker 1: out because the treat the goal at the end of

496
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:39,040
Speaker 1: the rainbow was the physical intimacy and then over time

497
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:40,720
Speaker 1: you do get to that point where you both have

498
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:43,600
Speaker 1: enough trust with each other to allow that to happen.

499
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:46,960
Speaker 1: But if that's not there. How much have you seen

500
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:49,719
Speaker 1: in your research, how much has it shown how you know,

501
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 1: female sexuality has had to adapt to essentially the male

502
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:57,240
Speaker 1: I'm ready to go kind of way of doing things.

503
00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:00,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you know, the dating apps tend to

504
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:05,359
Speaker 3: sort of reinforce a lot of heteronormative ideas around you know,

505
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:08,600
Speaker 3: being a male and a female in a relationship, in

506
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:14,399
Speaker 3: a heterosexual relationship. So even things like, for example, making

507
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 3: the first move, you know, there's definitely an expectation that

508
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:20,960
Speaker 3: men are the people that are making the first move,

509
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:24,439
Speaker 3: that are setting up the dates, that are pushing things forward.

510
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:28,200
Speaker 3: Even on an app like Bumble, where women traditionally make

511
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:31,159
Speaker 3: the first move, they're still sort of expecting that the

512
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:34,760
Speaker 3: final details the ones that the man will do within

513
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:38,520
Speaker 3: the mix, right, So it definitely reinforces a lot of

514
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:41,680
Speaker 3: these things about you know, how a woman should behave

515
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:45,400
Speaker 3: on a dating app to get a date. Like lots

516
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:47,760
Speaker 3: of things, for example, that you would have thought had

517
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:51,760
Speaker 3: disappeared twenty or thirty years ago are sort of popping

518
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 3: up a lot more these days. And I think it

519
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:57,680
Speaker 3: is part of you know, the digital culture, but it's

520
00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 3: also kind of you know, the re birth of alpha

521
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:04,960
Speaker 3: men through Andrew Tate and toxic masculinity and all those

522
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:10,400
Speaker 3: different elements that sort of pull together to create quite

523
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 3: a different narrative for younger women within this sort of.

524
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 1: Space, younger men as well getting trapped by that. Yes,

525
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:22,560
Speaker 1: is you know being sold that as that is the goal? Yes,

526
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:26,120
Speaker 1: where can I shoot the Bachelor's really fascinating on Bachelor,

527
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:28,000
Speaker 1: right because like, oh gosh, here I am with this

528
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:32,560
Speaker 1: really interesting co wortive people who are all successful and

529
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 1: you know, beautiful, and for whatever reason, they're single. And

530
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:39,480
Speaker 1: he's this guy or girl who's quite successful and got

531
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 1: all the abs in the world, but is also single. Like,

532
00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:44,760
Speaker 1: what's going on here? I would meet guys who are

533
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:47,840
Speaker 1: twenty seven, have never taken somebody home to meet their parents,

534
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:51,360
Speaker 1: never and what I kind of and I did a

535
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:54,200
Speaker 1: whole podcast about this list where I was like, you

536
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:57,800
Speaker 1: might be thinking that you are the king of everything

537
00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:00,920
Speaker 1: because you've got your run rate is through the roof,

538
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:04,040
Speaker 1: but all you're doing is playing the first level of

539
00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 1: the game. Yes, again and again and again and again.

540
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 1: In fact, you're doing it so far, you're doing speed runs.

541
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 1: You just you know what those first six weeks look

542
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 1: like because you've done it one hundred and twenty eight

543
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:17,440
Speaker 1: times this year. Yes, right, but you never get to

544
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:19,960
Speaker 1: level two. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah you might. Yes, great,

545
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:21,440
Speaker 1: you know, you get high fives in the group chat

546
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:23,080
Speaker 1: or whatever because yeah, yeah he's a picture of the

547
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 1: girl grego. Great, but you never get to the part

548
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:28,600
Speaker 1: where you've had to kind of look at I've done

549
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:30,840
Speaker 1: a shitty thing, or I've said something's hurt someone's feelings,

550
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:34,920
Speaker 1: and ah, I if I want this intimacy continue, I

551
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 1: might need to have a look at what I've said,

552
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:38,880
Speaker 1: because no need, I've got a few more on the boil.

553
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:41,360
Speaker 1: Here we go. Yeah, you never get there, and yeah,

554
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:44,240
Speaker 1: I'm being in this kind of stilted version of what

555
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 1: you are as a man. You never grow out of that.

556
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I find look, I do find. I

557
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:53,040
Speaker 3: find a lot of that kind of transactional space and

558
00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:57,840
Speaker 3: what I would call toxic masculinity quite disturbing. And I

559
00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:00,200
Speaker 3: think that you know what, it definitely has saw sort

560
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 3: of have gone up rather than gone down in terms

561
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:06,520
Speaker 3: of the levels of what's out there at the moment.

562
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:08,920
Speaker 3: But the other thing that I found really interesting in

563
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:13,080
Speaker 3: my research was the people still really believed in this

564
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 3: idea of romance and loves coming for me, so mister

565
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:20,040
Speaker 3: Darcy is coming for you right now. People really believed

566
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:23,480
Speaker 3: in that, and they and they, they, even if they

567
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 3: were in that sort of hook up sort of stage

568
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 3: and they were just in there to hook up, right,

569
00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:30,959
Speaker 3: they still had this notion that at some point in

570
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:34,479
Speaker 3: time things would sort of click into gear and that

571
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:37,800
Speaker 3: they would meet this person that would make them whole

572
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:41,520
Speaker 3: and complete and worthy. And there was this very powerful

573
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:44,920
Speaker 3: narrative that if you didn't meet this person at some

574
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:49,000
Speaker 3: point in time, you weren't worthy as a single person.

575
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:52,280
Speaker 3: You were kind of half a piece.

576
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:56,000
Speaker 1: So to see, particularly women, you get to be called spinster,

577
00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 1: you get to be called old rone, you get to

578
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:00,000
Speaker 1: be called all kinds of I don't have those names

579
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:00,480
Speaker 1: for men.

580
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:06,520
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, absolutely, still yes, yes, yeah, yeah, so definitely yeah.

581
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:09,880
Speaker 3: There was this very very strong narrative that if you

582
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:14,120
Speaker 3: hadn't made that connection, and especially for women, for example,

583
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:18,720
Speaker 3: they would be waiting to meet this person so as

584
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:22,080
Speaker 3: to move forward with other milestones within their lives, like,

585
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:26,320
Speaker 3: for example, let's talk about buying a home, which we

586
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:29,480
Speaker 3: know is a critical step these days. We know we're

587
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:32,400
Speaker 3: in a cost of living crisis. It's really tough, all

588
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:34,800
Speaker 3: that sort of stuff, and you would have women in

589
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:40,560
Speaker 3: these focus groups saying, well, I'm waiting to find the

590
00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 3: love of my life to buy a house with him, right,

591
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:47,120
Speaker 3: because they were waiting for this connection to then move

592
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:51,440
Speaker 3: forward all those different milestones. Because there's this popular narrative

593
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:55,000
Speaker 3: of this is how it should be done right. And

594
00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:58,080
Speaker 3: if you do it the other way round, for example,

595
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:00,880
Speaker 3: if you you know, have a child before you're married,

596
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:04,720
Speaker 3: people say things like, you know, they did things outside

597
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 3: of the script or they didn't follow the script. So

598
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:09,760
Speaker 3: there's this really strong narrative around it. This is how

599
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 3: you should be moving forwards in terms of your relationships.

600
00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:17,640
Speaker 1: That is what I had Osmo's, through the culture, through

601
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:20,160
Speaker 1: what I saw from watching Princess Bright a lot of times.

602
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:25,240
Speaker 1: This is like, it's what I was most but it

603
00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:29,160
Speaker 1: wasn't until I was about It was right around when

604
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 1: I got divorced. My manager at the time he just

605
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:33,440
Speaker 1: kind of sapped me down and he says, listen, mate,

606
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:35,720
Speaker 1: there's no such thing as the one. There's just the

607
00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:37,720
Speaker 1: one who's willing to work on it with you. Yes,

608
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:41,040
Speaker 1: And I was like, oh fuck man, Like that is

609
00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:44,800
Speaker 1: such a far better way to go forward. And the

610
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:47,920
Speaker 1: idea that it's going to be what you're describing from

611
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:52,560
Speaker 1: the moment you meet them. Nobody gets an actual meet cuite.

612
00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 1: All right, you know that doesn't happen. You need a

613
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:58,680
Speaker 1: John Hughes directing film, you need a camera crew, you

614
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:00,920
Speaker 1: need everything, you need motheryroom, Like it's not going to

615
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:04,880
Speaker 1: happen or Drew Barrymore, whoever it is, but that moment,

616
00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:10,040
Speaker 1: that moment can happen and often does happen two years later,

617
00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:13,080
Speaker 1: three years later with that person when you suddenly you

618
00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:16,200
Speaker 1: look at them and go oh, and then it's it

619
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:18,799
Speaker 1: is waiting for you. But it's just not straight away

620
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:22,120
Speaker 1: because that is not actual how it works.

621
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:26,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's absolutely true. But you know, they often referenced,

622
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:29,040
Speaker 3: as you said, the meat cute. They wouldn't say the

623
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:31,399
Speaker 3: words the meet cute, but you know, people would say

624
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:35,279
Speaker 3: things like I was expecting that my eyes would meet

625
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:38,080
Speaker 3: this person across the room, or that I would trip

626
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:40,799
Speaker 3: over his dog at the park, or you know, like

627
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:44,440
Speaker 3: just these strange and funny ideas, and they would equate

628
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:48,520
Speaker 3: them with people that are actors that are usually in

629
00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:51,319
Speaker 3: rom coms. So they'd say, oh, you know, but I'm

630
00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:53,920
Speaker 3: no Jennifer Lopez or I'm no you know.

631
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:54,600
Speaker 1: Yeah.

632
00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:57,959
Speaker 3: So there was these traditional ideas still within the mix,

633
00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:02,400
Speaker 3: and this made people feel uncomfort stable because they thought, yeah, absolutely,

634
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:05,040
Speaker 3: I can meet someone to hook up with on a

635
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:08,080
Speaker 3: dating app, but the person I'm supposed to meet to

636
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:10,759
Speaker 3: spend the rest of my life with that should have

637
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:14,319
Speaker 3: a face to face commencement and sort of you know,

638
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:18,560
Speaker 3: the whole confetti and everything else that comes with it, a.

639
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:21,759
Speaker 1: Snow patrol song or whatever it is, you know, for

640
00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:26,480
Speaker 1: a so for somebody who's you know, psychologists often call

641
00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:29,600
Speaker 1: it the tyranny of the shoulds. It's very you know,

642
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:32,759
Speaker 1: Albert you know, Ellison Beck kind of thing. If we

643
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:35,960
Speaker 1: find ourselves and people relating to I'm in this should

644
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:39,480
Speaker 1: space around my dating life. What are some things that

645
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:41,680
Speaker 1: people can What are some things you want to tell

646
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:44,640
Speaker 1: people today to help insulate themselves from that? What are

647
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:46,960
Speaker 1: some questions we might be able to ask ourselves around

648
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:51,360
Speaker 1: their expectations when it comes to trying to meet somebody.

649
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 3: Look, I think one of the critical questions people should

650
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:59,680
Speaker 3: ask themselves is why they think that this step is critical?

651
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:00,200
Speaker 1: Right?

652
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:04,200
Speaker 3: Why they think that meeting someone is going to be

653
00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:07,360
Speaker 3: the be all and end all for them in terms

654
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:08,240
Speaker 3: of their life?

655
00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:10,759
Speaker 1: Right? Why exactly is it?

656
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:14,200
Speaker 3: And the next thing I think they should ask themselves

657
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:19,080
Speaker 3: is why they have particular ideas around how that should transpire.

658
00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:23,160
Speaker 3: So I think that would help them sort of articulate

659
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:28,880
Speaker 3: why exactly they feel unworthy as a single person, which

660
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:32,319
Speaker 3: is a completely untrue narrative, right, you know, you can

661
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 3: be totally happy being single, and in fact, a lot

662
00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:40,479
Speaker 3: of people who are in relationships and unhappy relationships would

663
00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:42,840
Speaker 3: be looking at single people and being you know, fully

664
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:46,799
Speaker 3: jealous about you know, the freedom associated with that. Right,

665
00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:52,600
Speaker 3: people can live a fully worthy and whole life being single.

666
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:56,480
Speaker 3: So why why can't we accept this? The next part is,

667
00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:58,919
Speaker 3: you know, as you mentioned, you know, we have these

668
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:02,120
Speaker 3: ideas around the rom coms and all the movies and all.

669
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:02,680
Speaker 1: That sort of stuff.

670
00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:05,640
Speaker 3: But you know, another really prevalent narrative these days is

671
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:10,520
Speaker 3: social media. So you know, people have relationship goals on

672
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:13,520
Speaker 3: social media. You know, they will be posting all of

673
00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:17,160
Speaker 3: these key images of themselves with their partner, you know,

674
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:20,719
Speaker 3: when they move in, when they get married. She said, yes,

675
00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:24,799
Speaker 3: with the ring, you know, the kavoodle that they've bought.

676
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:27,759
Speaker 3: You know, all of these milestones that you see in

677
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:31,720
Speaker 3: you know, traditionally a heterosexual space, but is now starting

678
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:35,520
Speaker 3: to leak within a queer space as well and colonize

679
00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:38,440
Speaker 3: that space too. You know, we get all these ideas

680
00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:41,680
Speaker 3: of what it should look like, and then when we

681
00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:45,359
Speaker 3: look at our own relationships and they don't marry up

682
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:49,239
Speaker 3: to these things, we suddenly start to think my relationship

683
00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:53,359
Speaker 3: is wrong. You know, I'm wrong, and my relationship's wrong

684
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:55,600
Speaker 3: because I should be doing all those sorts of things.

685
00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:59,640
Speaker 3: And the really curious part about this is that we

686
00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:03,200
Speaker 3: all curate our social media, and we're very well aware

687
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:05,799
Speaker 3: that the stuff we put up on social media is

688
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:09,200
Speaker 3: just us having oh, such a great time, you know,

689
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:12,960
Speaker 3: but behind the scenes, you know, where we're a little

690
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:16,839
Speaker 3: bit sobbing into the ice cream container or whatever it.

691
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:18,279
Speaker 1: Might be on the v occasion.

692
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:22,440
Speaker 3: Right, But when we look at other people's profiles, we

693
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:25,440
Speaker 3: don't apply the same lens. We look at their profiles

694
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:27,839
Speaker 3: and we think they are having a great life and

695
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:30,560
Speaker 3: they are living the relationship that I should be able.

696
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:33,440
Speaker 1: So as the reverse of the fundamental attribution era, where

697
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:38,720
Speaker 1: the fundamental attribution error, very briefly is like I have reasons,

698
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:41,640
Speaker 1: you have excuses. So if I have made a mistake,

699
00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:43,440
Speaker 1: it is because of a thing that had nothing to

700
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:44,799
Speaker 1: do with me. But if you have made a mistake,

701
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:47,359
Speaker 1: it's because of a flaw in your character. And you

702
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:49,879
Speaker 1: are always going to be and we'll always have been

703
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:53,160
Speaker 1: this person. You are late because you don't respect me. Yes,

704
00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:55,520
Speaker 1: I'm late because there was traffic and it was raining

705
00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:59,280
Speaker 1: that person. What I'm seeing is everything that is actually

706
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:01,920
Speaker 1: happening in their life. But what I see in my

707
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:06,000
Speaker 1: life is you know, whenever I do those photos, I

708
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:07,760
Speaker 1: only ever put the best stuff because I don't anyone

709
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:10,720
Speaker 1: to see this. So we're asking ourselves these questions about

710
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:14,160
Speaker 1: if we're finding ourselves in this place of shoulds, and

711
00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:17,160
Speaker 1: that my relationship or my dating life doesn't look like

712
00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:22,280
Speaker 1: what I'm seeing, and therefore it's bad, so I should stop.

713
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:24,000
Speaker 1: I want to stop it, or I don't want to

714
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:27,440
Speaker 1: continue this, or I feel bad about myself, asking ourselves

715
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:30,879
Speaker 1: where did we get our expectations from? Yes, how did

716
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:33,279
Speaker 1: I learn that? And is there another way that I

717
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:35,319
Speaker 1: might be able to I guess to move forward from

718
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:40,320
Speaker 1: that sport coming to the acceptance that someone's that great song.

719
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:45,560
Speaker 1: There's a song called My Type and the Young Lady.

720
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:48,640
Speaker 1: I get a lot of music discovery from my eldest,

721
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:53,640
Speaker 1: and one of those she talks about eight inches that's

722
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:57,040
Speaker 1: my type. Yes, that's my type, eight figures or something

723
00:39:57,080 --> 00:40:02,560
Speaker 1: that's my type. Yes, that's my type. Like that's you know,

724
00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:05,920
Speaker 1: that is as much of a fantasy as you know,

725
00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:12,240
Speaker 1: me becoming the lead violin play in Andre's next Traveling Orchestra.

726
00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:14,520
Speaker 3: Absolutely, and I think you know, a lot of these

727
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:18,319
Speaker 3: platforms like you know, TikTok in particular, drive a lot

728
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:22,760
Speaker 3: of these expectations, you know. But there was a trend

729
00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:26,080
Speaker 3: I don't know if you remember. It's something about six

730
00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:29,520
Speaker 3: foot blue eyes works in finance, be the sort of things.

731
00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:31,520
Speaker 3: So there was a song that went with it. I'm

732
00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:33,279
Speaker 3: not going to attempt it, but you know so.

733
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:36,280
Speaker 1: But also it's in finance.

734
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:40,080
Speaker 3: That's it, that's it. You know, there's all these ideas around,

735
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:43,279
Speaker 3: you know, beije flags, red flags, you know.

736
00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:46,719
Speaker 1: Beige flag. I'm an old man now, I'm fifty one

737
00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:48,680
Speaker 1: in two weeks. What's what's a beige flag?

738
00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:53,560
Speaker 3: A beije flag is basically an odd quirk that that

739
00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 3: your partner might have which is not necessarily hasn't moved

740
00:40:57,640 --> 00:41:01,560
Speaker 3: into the red flag sort of space, but he's still

741
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:04,080
Speaker 3: you know, irking you in some ways.

742
00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:05,520
Speaker 1: What can that look like?

743
00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:08,680
Speaker 3: Oh? You know, you know people all have little odd

744
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:09,880
Speaker 3: bits and pieces.

745
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:12,359
Speaker 1: Thursday night and doesn't like me speaking to him.

746
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:18,160
Speaker 3: Could be some could be something or could be something

747
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:23,640
Speaker 3: along those lines. Yeah, absolutely right, So that's a beige flag. Yes, uh,

748
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:28,239
Speaker 3: you know, Black Black Cat and Golden Retriever Energy, all

749
00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:32,839
Speaker 3: those sorts of ideas. You know, they're driven by you know,

750
00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:35,799
Speaker 3: platforms like TikTok, which are kinds of a bit They

751
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:38,200
Speaker 3: have a clickbait feel. So as long as you're saying

752
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:41,840
Speaker 3: something sensational and new and you know, a quick grab,

753
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:45,920
Speaker 3: people sort of gravitate towards them and think that there's

754
00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:48,560
Speaker 3: some sort of truth within the mix. You know, a

755
00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:52,719
Speaker 3: lot of people take relationship advice from TikTok, believe it

756
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:53,040
Speaker 3: or not.

757
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:58,720
Speaker 1: I don't like. No, it's if it is as quality

758
00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:02,319
Speaker 1: as a nutritional advice that I've seen there, or some

759
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:05,799
Speaker 1: of the psychological and or fitness advice I've seen that. Yes,

760
00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:07,120
Speaker 1: it's probably not that great.

761
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:12,360
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, absolutely not that great. Very sensational, usually quite manipulative,

762
00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:16,799
Speaker 3: so focused on people you know, acting acting within the

763
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:20,560
Speaker 3: relationships to actually get an outcome, as opposed to being

764
00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:26,080
Speaker 3: transparent and authentic and telling the truth for example. You know. So, yeah,

765
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:28,800
Speaker 3: it's not a great space for relationships.

766
00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:32,719
Speaker 1: Just taking a moment away from Lisa Portalin back in

767
00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:42,120
Speaker 1: a second, So what does this do and what greater

768
00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:46,080
Speaker 1: effects does it have on our community? We've had ten

769
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:49,600
Speaker 1: or so years at least of the broad adoption of

770
00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:53,359
Speaker 1: these apps. As far as how people meet, I think

771
00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:56,279
Speaker 1: I don't know, what did your research say about the

772
00:42:56,360 --> 00:42:58,680
Speaker 1: percentage of people these says who actually meet someone face

773
00:42:58,719 --> 00:42:59,120
Speaker 1: to face.

774
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:02,640
Speaker 3: Well, there's there's actually there's some new research that shows

775
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:05,000
Speaker 3: that the majority of people that met in Australia last

776
00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:06,480
Speaker 3: year met on dating apps.

777
00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:08,160
Speaker 1: Right, so this is now the norm.

778
00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:08,799
Speaker 3: It's the normal.

779
00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:10,759
Speaker 1: Where do we like, right, this is the normal. What

780
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:13,520
Speaker 1: are some of the externalities that we might not realize

781
00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:16,560
Speaker 1: things about? I don't know, marriage rates, or birth rates

782
00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:19,799
Speaker 1: or people actually finding buying a home.

783
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:23,800
Speaker 3: Well, certainly, you know, the marriage rates and the divorce

784
00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:26,799
Speaker 3: rates are on their growing right, and it's over I

785
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:29,680
Speaker 3: think fifty percent in Australia at this point in time.

786
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:32,600
Speaker 3: So getting it, yes, if you're getting marriage, you can

787
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:36,160
Speaker 3: half half expect that you may be divorced at some point.

788
00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:41,480
Speaker 3: You know, the cost of living, the impact on you know, children,

789
00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:45,080
Speaker 3: all that sort of stuff is intertwined within the mix

790
00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:48,000
Speaker 3: as well. So there's a lot of different elements that

791
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:53,239
Speaker 3: go into sort of a roadmap or the way things

792
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:56,759
Speaker 3: are going forward. But I definitely think that from a

793
00:43:56,840 --> 00:44:00,520
Speaker 3: dating app perspective, there is this really strong reinforce of

794
00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:06,759
Speaker 3: that transactional element to relationships, transactional physically transactional as well

795
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:11,319
Speaker 3: as the transient element of relationships as well. So the

796
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:15,319
Speaker 3: idea that you can always meet someone and that the

797
00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:18,000
Speaker 3: grass is always greener and that there could be someone

798
00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:22,560
Speaker 3: else that's better for you encourages people to tie loose

799
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:25,120
Speaker 3: bonds that can be quickly unraveled.

800
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:26,960
Speaker 1: What I was talking about before, I only have a

801
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:29,040
Speaker 1: playing level one yes, And I guess you know, if

802
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:31,240
Speaker 1: you are in a long term relationship, you are aware

803
00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:35,920
Speaker 1: that well, I can just download that up again and

804
00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:38,680
Speaker 1: keet swiping a part of this. I can't help but

805
00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:41,279
Speaker 1: think we're willing to change ourselves, whether it's through a

806
00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:44,359
Speaker 1: filter or I'm going to hit the gym because I'm

807
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:47,480
Speaker 1: not getting any likes. We're willing to change ourselves to

808
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:51,239
Speaker 1: get the person. But judging by the way the end

809
00:44:51,239 --> 00:44:52,600
Speaker 1: of the base flag thing and all that kind of stuff

810
00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:54,719
Speaker 1: is like, but once we're in the relationship, there doesn't

811
00:44:54,719 --> 00:44:57,600
Speaker 1: seem to be any desire whatsoever to grow all change

812
00:44:57,760 --> 00:44:59,800
Speaker 1: to maintain the relationship is like no, no, no, this is

813
00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:02,400
Speaker 1: this is me, Yeah to me forever and if you

814
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:04,239
Speaker 1: don't like it, then I'll just get swiping. Like there's

815
00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:07,879
Speaker 1: no incentive to actually grow within a relationship.

816
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:09,560
Speaker 3: Is yeah, And I guess, you know, as we were

817
00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:11,600
Speaker 3: sort of talking about before, it's all about you know,

818
00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:15,319
Speaker 3: compromise and negotiation and those different skills that you sort

819
00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:18,520
Speaker 3: of have to learn to keep a relationship going otherwise

820
00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:23,000
Speaker 3: you know, it's it's destined for disaster. But the other

821
00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:25,200
Speaker 3: element I think that you sort of brought up earlier

822
00:45:25,239 --> 00:45:27,279
Speaker 3: and just I thought of it again now is the

823
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:29,920
Speaker 3: fact that a lot of people who are on dating

824
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:34,200
Speaker 3: apps might be in a relationship and might have, you know,

825
00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:37,400
Speaker 3: maybe just hit a bit of a rough patch, and

826
00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:40,000
Speaker 3: so they will go on the dating apps just to

827
00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:42,799
Speaker 3: kind of get that, you know, that dopamine hit that

828
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:47,040
Speaker 3: feeling of you know, being desirable and you know, have

829
00:45:47,160 --> 00:45:51,600
Speaker 3: conversations with people, and you know, it's quite sad because

830
00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:54,400
Speaker 3: the person on the other side, you know, is building

831
00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:57,600
Speaker 3: this up and thinking, well, this could be something, and

832
00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:00,720
Speaker 3: then eventually it ends up being a ghosting. This person

833
00:46:00,719 --> 00:46:02,560
Speaker 3: doesn't turn up for the day. It's all they suddenly

834
00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:05,160
Speaker 3: discover that this person is in a relationship and all

835
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:08,280
Speaker 3: that sort of stuff. But there is also this trend

836
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:11,319
Speaker 3: of you know when you hit that patch, well, it's

837
00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:14,799
Speaker 3: not cheating because I'm just on the dating app and

838
00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:18,040
Speaker 3: getting that little dopamine hit that I'm desired.

839
00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:23,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, when I think about addiction in our country, yes,

840
00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:28,440
Speaker 1: particularly gambling addiction, alcohol addictions, you know, it's still a

841
00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:31,719
Speaker 1: big deal. But you know, young people just don't drink

842
00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:34,720
Speaker 1: as much as that I'm talking. They don't do mushrooms

843
00:46:34,719 --> 00:46:37,600
Speaker 1: and ketamine. They do, but the stuff you can tax is.

844
00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:42,920
Speaker 1: But the coupling in our country of profit to addiction

845
00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:48,719
Speaker 1: has led to regulation being very reluctant because there's a

846
00:46:48,719 --> 00:46:50,680
Speaker 1: lot of profit in this. When I look at someone

847
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:53,359
Speaker 1: like Tinder is like one point eight billion dollars worth

848
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:56,160
Speaker 1: as a company or probably two by now, and I

849
00:46:56,160 --> 00:46:57,600
Speaker 1: don't know what the next one higher is. I think

850
00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:03,880
Speaker 1: it's bumble. We're talking massive profit, humongous profit being made

851
00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:10,040
Speaker 1: by inserting yourself now as a utility between people finding

852
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:14,160
Speaker 1: intimate connection. That in itself has got to be got

853
00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:15,960
Speaker 1: to be a problem. And is there some responsibility on

854
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:18,200
Speaker 1: these platforms that they need to take in that space.

855
00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:22,120
Speaker 3: I think there's definitely a responsibility that they need to take.

856
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:25,399
Speaker 3: And you know, the voluntary code is all about, you know,

857
00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:28,799
Speaker 3: putting the onus on dating apps to develop a more

858
00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:34,839
Speaker 3: responsible way of acting within these spaces. But certainly the

859
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:39,040
Speaker 3: idea of profit has become very problematic within the dating

860
00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:42,080
Speaker 3: app space. So you know, way back in the day,

861
00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:47,200
Speaker 3: people weren't necessarily signing up for the subscription packages. But

862
00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:50,400
Speaker 3: these days, you know, across the last couple of years,

863
00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:54,240
Speaker 3: we have seen like this huge growth of people needing

864
00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:57,040
Speaker 3: to sign up to these subscription packages. And this is

865
00:47:57,120 --> 00:47:59,359
Speaker 3: part of the idea of I'm not sure if you've

866
00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:01,160
Speaker 3: heard of locking up the hotties.

867
00:48:02,200 --> 00:48:05,000
Speaker 1: I'm going to assume that is like, so you're just

868
00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:08,160
Speaker 1: you're just trawling through the you know, the bottom level

869
00:48:08,160 --> 00:48:11,040
Speaker 1: of the PA, right, but upstairs is my club. We

870
00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:14,360
Speaker 1: don't let everybody into, okay, but for a cover charge

871
00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:15,839
Speaker 1: you get to go up there, which is not because

872
00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:19,080
Speaker 1: it like profit was made. Let's not be right, there was.

873
00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:21,640
Speaker 1: I came up through the nightclub industry, Like if you

874
00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:23,880
Speaker 1: wanted to find intimate connection with somebody, you paid a

875
00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:26,400
Speaker 1: cover charge, you get into a club. You paid not

876
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:28,880
Speaker 1: as much as now, but you bought beers, you bought alcohol,

877
00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:31,840
Speaker 1: you you spend money like you bought dinner for somebody

878
00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:34,160
Speaker 1: maybe like there's always been money to be made, yes,

879
00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:38,200
Speaker 1: people connecting or bringing young people together. But this this

880
00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:41,239
Speaker 1: idea that you know, there's only an exclusive amount of

881
00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:44,720
Speaker 1: the over six foot finance guy is behind this paywall

882
00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:46,520
Speaker 1: and he's a photo of him. If you know you

883
00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:47,920
Speaker 1: want to go talk to this guy, he's there right now,

884
00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:48,319
Speaker 1: he's waiting.

885
00:48:48,600 --> 00:48:49,160
Speaker 3: That's right.

886
00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:52,200
Speaker 1: Hot men in your area, yes, so that you've.

887
00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:56,080
Speaker 3: You've basically that's exactly what it is, right, So basically

888
00:48:56,120 --> 00:48:58,400
Speaker 3: the hotties are on the other side of the paywall.

889
00:48:58,440 --> 00:49:00,600
Speaker 3: You're sort of sifting through the gulf. If you want

890
00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:03,960
Speaker 3: to access the hotties, then you need to pay us

891
00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:08,279
Speaker 3: a subscription fee, and that subscription fee can vary, so

892
00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:12,320
Speaker 3: it's not applied universally to different people. So, for example,

893
00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:16,240
Speaker 3: if they have a lot of a lot of women

894
00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:18,800
Speaker 3: that are paying the subscription fee, it might women of

895
00:49:18,840 --> 00:49:22,440
Speaker 3: a certain age group that are paying the subscription fee.

896
00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:25,239
Speaker 3: It might be higher for you because they're looking for

897
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:29,000
Speaker 3: someone within a particular age group or in a particular

898
00:49:29,120 --> 00:49:31,719
Speaker 3: gender or all that sort of stuff, right, So it's

899
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:36,239
Speaker 3: not universal. But the other thing is the hotties, who

900
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:39,080
Speaker 3: are they, right, so are they you know, are they

901
00:49:39,120 --> 00:49:42,920
Speaker 3: people that we would traditionally think of as being hot,

902
00:49:43,000 --> 00:49:45,200
Speaker 3: you know, tall, dark and hands them whatever it might

903
00:49:45,239 --> 00:49:48,160
Speaker 3: be the gentleman from finance, or is it that the

904
00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:52,040
Speaker 3: AI algorithms that are applied, which are applied on dating apps,

905
00:49:52,480 --> 00:49:56,879
Speaker 3: you know, are learning from our behaviors and thinking, you know,

906
00:49:57,120 --> 00:50:00,720
Speaker 3: this is the person, the type of person that Lisa

907
00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:03,600
Speaker 3: would swipe right on. So we're going to move those

908
00:50:03,640 --> 00:50:05,560
Speaker 3: people behind the paywall for her.

909
00:50:05,920 --> 00:50:09,400
Speaker 1: Yes, so someone else might get access to them for free? Correct?

910
00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:11,560
Speaker 1: Holy shit? Correct, that's insidious.

911
00:50:12,040 --> 00:50:18,239
Speaker 3: Right, So so yes, so it means that soul that

912
00:50:18,280 --> 00:50:23,200
Speaker 3: then Lisa needs to pay to see her hotties, you know,

913
00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:27,479
Speaker 3: that is so horrible. Yes, yeah, so this is kind

914
00:50:27,600 --> 00:50:31,040
Speaker 3: of the thing that people are really starting to arc

915
00:50:31,160 --> 00:50:31,720
Speaker 3: up about.

916
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:35,920
Speaker 1: Yes, if we find ourselves in this situation, if you know,

917
00:50:35,960 --> 00:50:38,400
Speaker 1: there's people listening going, yeah, I'm here, I'm there. I

918
00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:41,400
Speaker 1: understand exactly everything you talk about. What are some ways

919
00:50:41,400 --> 00:50:46,080
Speaker 1: that you've identified that people can move forward from this space?

920
00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:50,279
Speaker 1: How are you seeing a pushback and are you seeing

921
00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:52,959
Speaker 1: people trying to like not do things like that.

922
00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:57,000
Speaker 3: Yes, so I think that there's a big pushback around

923
00:50:57,040 --> 00:51:01,040
Speaker 3: the subscriptions from people that are using dating apps, and

924
00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:03,719
Speaker 3: you know, the main fear is, yeah, the people that

925
00:51:03,800 --> 00:51:06,640
Speaker 3: I'm looking for are locked up behind the wall. So

926
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:10,440
Speaker 3: basically I have to pay and I'm being trapped on

927
00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:13,520
Speaker 3: this app. It's not trying to find me what I'm

928
00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:17,240
Speaker 3: looking for. The longest relationship I'm having is with the app,

929
00:51:17,280 --> 00:51:19,840
Speaker 3: and so that I keep paying this amount of money.

930
00:51:20,280 --> 00:51:24,399
Speaker 3: People have legitimate concerns around this, right, so people come

931
00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:27,319
Speaker 3: up with a lot of different mechanisms around how they

932
00:51:27,320 --> 00:51:30,520
Speaker 3: can gain the system. So there's a whole thing around

933
00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:33,600
Speaker 3: you know, if I go off the app for a

934
00:51:33,640 --> 00:51:35,840
Speaker 3: period of time and then I come back on, it

935
00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:38,719
Speaker 3: gives some juice to the algorithm and suddenly I get

936
00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:41,080
Speaker 3: hit with all of these matches. I don't have to

937
00:51:41,120 --> 00:51:44,400
Speaker 3: pay the subscription fee. So there's all these kinds of

938
00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:49,319
Speaker 3: like digital workarounds for people that people apply are out there.

939
00:51:49,600 --> 00:51:52,640
Speaker 1: What about like the actual in real life workarounds of

940
00:51:52,680 --> 00:51:54,680
Speaker 1: you know, are you noticing as your research showing you

941
00:51:54,760 --> 00:51:57,520
Speaker 1: that people who have just got the shits with feeling

942
00:51:57,600 --> 00:52:01,000
Speaker 1: terrible about themselves are trying to actually just bump up

943
00:52:01,000 --> 00:52:01,960
Speaker 1: against another human aner.

944
00:52:02,160 --> 00:52:05,760
Speaker 3: Ye, So definitely we've seen a rise of people wanting

945
00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:08,200
Speaker 3: to meet face to face, and there was kind of

946
00:52:08,280 --> 00:52:12,000
Speaker 3: the rise of the run clubs and all these other

947
00:52:12,080 --> 00:52:15,520
Speaker 3: ways to kind of meet face to face. But you know,

948
00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:18,680
Speaker 3: dating apps are still out there and going strong, but

949
00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:21,720
Speaker 3: there is a yearning for that face to face connection

950
00:52:21,840 --> 00:52:24,480
Speaker 3: that's going on at the moment, and people are seeking

951
00:52:24,520 --> 00:52:27,120
Speaker 3: that out. It's just I guess you know how much

952
00:52:27,200 --> 00:52:30,319
Speaker 3: this period of time of using dating apps has had

953
00:52:30,320 --> 00:52:34,000
Speaker 3: an impact on us in terms of our conversational skills,

954
00:52:34,320 --> 00:52:37,960
Speaker 3: our capacity to just strike up a connection and some

955
00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:41,800
Speaker 3: communication with an individual. All of those things have kind

956
00:52:41,840 --> 00:52:45,720
Speaker 3: of been rolled back because we've not had to flex

957
00:52:45,760 --> 00:52:47,520
Speaker 3: those muscles in a long time.

958
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:50,080
Speaker 1: I saw it face to face. Every time when we

959
00:52:50,239 --> 00:52:52,320
Speaker 1: do a season of this show. You get these guys

960
00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:54,320
Speaker 1: who are like all these women who are just hot

961
00:52:54,880 --> 00:52:59,480
Speaker 1: and so their whole life like, let's just like I

962
00:52:59,520 --> 00:53:02,000
Speaker 1: really had to work work that hard in order to

963
00:53:02,040 --> 00:53:06,400
Speaker 1: get physical literacy so that no, have never really had

964
00:53:06,440 --> 00:53:09,279
Speaker 1: to work on the chat. Yes, And then it's like

965
00:53:09,320 --> 00:53:11,799
Speaker 1: the movie The Incredibles when everyone's super no one is,

966
00:53:11,840 --> 00:53:13,759
Speaker 1: so you suddenly put all these guys in a room

967
00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:15,839
Speaker 1: with every other hot guy. Then the other thing you've

968
00:53:15,840 --> 00:53:17,840
Speaker 1: got is how you can talk? Yes, and are you kind?

969
00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:20,480
Speaker 1: That's it. And a lot of these dudes had nothing,

970
00:53:20,880 --> 00:53:23,600
Speaker 1: no game, no ability to listen, no ability to know

971
00:53:23,680 --> 00:53:25,839
Speaker 1: take criticism, no ability to make a joke or take

972
00:53:25,880 --> 00:53:28,040
Speaker 1: a joke, and apps like buddy, of course you're single,

973
00:53:29,120 --> 00:53:30,560
Speaker 1: of course you won't be hot, and you're a great

974
00:53:30,560 --> 00:53:33,200
Speaker 1: business and all this kind of stuff, but you don't

975
00:53:33,200 --> 00:53:37,520
Speaker 1: know how to do this part. I remember, like, like,

976
00:53:37,680 --> 00:53:40,400
Speaker 1: there's got to be like women who are probably in

977
00:53:40,440 --> 00:53:44,719
Speaker 1: their late twenties who've never been verbally asked out. It

978
00:53:44,920 --> 00:53:47,080
Speaker 1: was the invitation would always be on the screen.

979
00:53:47,320 --> 00:53:50,720
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, So you know, part of my research indicated

980
00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:54,360
Speaker 3: that a critical element around dating apps is around rejection

981
00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:57,760
Speaker 3: and the fact that because of dating apps, you don't

982
00:53:57,840 --> 00:54:01,600
Speaker 3: need to be rejected face to face anymore. And you

983
00:54:01,640 --> 00:54:04,160
Speaker 3: know that takes the sting out of things. Being rejected

984
00:54:04,200 --> 00:54:07,120
Speaker 3: online is yeah, a paper cut, so to speak, but

985
00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:10,439
Speaker 3: not necessarily you know, that big blow from a face

986
00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:14,600
Speaker 3: to face interaction. But definitely those like you said, like

987
00:54:14,719 --> 00:54:17,480
Speaker 3: those muscles, we haven't flexed them in a long time.

988
00:54:17,640 --> 00:54:20,200
Speaker 3: You know, we're starting to lose the art of conversation.

989
00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:24,359
Speaker 3: I did a set of interviews with people that had

990
00:54:24,400 --> 00:54:27,319
Speaker 3: been in long term relationships to see what were the

991
00:54:27,360 --> 00:54:31,239
Speaker 3: elements that had kept them together, and a lot of

992
00:54:31,280 --> 00:54:35,040
Speaker 3: people said, surprise, surprise, the capacity to communicate and to

993
00:54:35,239 --> 00:54:38,760
Speaker 3: have a conversation with someone. But one of the popular

994
00:54:38,800 --> 00:54:42,160
Speaker 3: gripes that you get from people who are newly dating

995
00:54:42,239 --> 00:54:46,080
Speaker 3: these days is well, I sat across the table from her,

996
00:54:46,320 --> 00:54:49,240
Speaker 3: and I asked her so many questions and I didn't

997
00:54:49,280 --> 00:54:52,360
Speaker 3: get one question in return. You know, so people have

998
00:54:52,560 --> 00:55:01,280
Speaker 3: lost this curiosity. Yeah, this, you know, so this curiosity

999
00:55:01,400 --> 00:55:05,280
Speaker 3: to find out, this capacity to converse, to make a joke,

1000
00:55:05,520 --> 00:55:09,319
Speaker 3: to fail as well, to be rejected in that face

1001
00:55:09,360 --> 00:55:12,600
Speaker 3: to face space. So all of those things that critically

1002
00:55:12,880 --> 00:55:16,160
Speaker 3: came together to make us human are kind of being

1003
00:55:16,560 --> 00:55:17,160
Speaker 3: rolled back.

1004
00:55:17,520 --> 00:55:21,319
Speaker 1: Okay, so if you're listening or you're watching, let's set

1005
00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:24,520
Speaker 1: a challenge. Let's set a challenge for the week. I'd

1006
00:55:24,560 --> 00:55:26,960
Speaker 1: say number one, go talk to a stranger you find attractive,

1007
00:55:27,520 --> 00:55:29,480
Speaker 1: Go say hi, that's it.

1008
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:33,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, and even just go talk to a stranger

1009
00:55:33,239 --> 00:55:36,120
Speaker 3: like practice the art of a conversation with someone for

1010
00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:39,680
Speaker 3: no actual outcome, just to enjoy speaking to someone.

1011
00:55:40,120 --> 00:55:43,240
Speaker 1: Okay that your mine. Mine was the advanced level you're correct.

1012
00:55:43,719 --> 00:55:46,240
Speaker 1: Just speak to a person, Just speak to a person

1013
00:55:46,320 --> 00:55:48,759
Speaker 1: you don't know, and just try to do that. Do

1014
00:55:48,840 --> 00:55:50,960
Speaker 1: it once a week, then maybe do it twice week,

1015
00:55:50,960 --> 00:55:52,479
Speaker 1: then try and do it every day, and then after

1016
00:55:52,560 --> 00:55:55,279
Speaker 1: a while, what do you know, Yeah, because you're going

1017
00:55:55,360 --> 00:55:56,880
Speaker 1: to find people that don't actually want to talk to you,

1018
00:55:57,480 --> 00:55:59,160
Speaker 1: and guess what, You're going to be just fine.

1019
00:55:59,080 --> 00:56:03,200
Speaker 3: Yes, absolutely absolutely, And then you're going to find ways

1020
00:56:03,320 --> 00:56:07,600
Speaker 3: of actually conversing. So if it's hard to start the conversation,

1021
00:56:07,800 --> 00:56:10,400
Speaker 3: you know ways to ask questions to get people involved,

1022
00:56:10,719 --> 00:56:13,840
Speaker 3: and you know what, you might actually really enjoy speaking

1023
00:56:13,880 --> 00:56:16,760
Speaker 3: to people and just get those natural little dopamine hits

1024
00:56:16,800 --> 00:56:19,040
Speaker 3: from having a chat with a stranger.

1025
00:56:19,120 --> 00:56:20,400
Speaker 1: I'm going to tell you that dove meat of having

1026
00:56:20,440 --> 00:56:22,640
Speaker 1: a chat with a stranger is way better than any

1027
00:56:22,719 --> 00:56:25,279
Speaker 1: kind of swipey. But because you're isolated and sitting on

1028
00:56:25,320 --> 00:56:29,520
Speaker 1: your couch lonely, that little swipey feels much bigger. It's

1029
00:56:29,560 --> 00:56:31,480
Speaker 1: the great fallacy of the dating apps. Like men go

1030
00:56:31,520 --> 00:56:33,239
Speaker 1: on dating apps when they horny, women go on dating

1031
00:56:33,239 --> 00:56:35,080
Speaker 1: app when they're lonely. And so you've got these two

1032
00:56:35,120 --> 00:56:38,279
Speaker 1: people trying to meet very different needs, yes, trying to

1033
00:56:38,360 --> 00:56:41,480
Speaker 1: chat with each other. Yeah, it absolutely it feels like that. Yeah,

1034
00:56:41,480 --> 00:56:43,840
Speaker 1: and it's really really odd. Did you ever get tempted

1035
00:56:43,840 --> 00:56:45,120
Speaker 1: to make your own dating app?

1036
00:56:45,920 --> 00:56:48,279
Speaker 3: I did. I did get tempted to make my own

1037
00:56:48,360 --> 00:56:51,560
Speaker 3: dating app. But the real issue in my mind is

1038
00:56:51,600 --> 00:56:57,759
Speaker 3: that people really need face to face connection, and it's

1039
00:56:57,880 --> 00:57:01,240
Speaker 3: how to get to that place with dating apps?

1040
00:57:01,440 --> 00:57:01,600
Speaker 1: Right?

1041
00:57:01,640 --> 00:57:04,720
Speaker 3: How do you interlace the face to face connection element

1042
00:57:04,800 --> 00:57:08,960
Speaker 3: within the mix? And I couldn't get to that sort

1043
00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:12,279
Speaker 3: of space. I just conceptually I didn't know how.

1044
00:57:12,200 --> 00:57:12,759
Speaker 1: It would work.

1045
00:57:12,840 --> 00:57:16,480
Speaker 3: But I think critically the face to face element needs

1046
00:57:16,520 --> 00:57:22,920
Speaker 3: to be there because chemistry can't be quantified within the

1047
00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:26,320
Speaker 3: online domain. And you know, as you mentioned, you can

1048
00:57:26,360 --> 00:57:28,960
Speaker 3: have a great chat with someone online and then you

1049
00:57:29,000 --> 00:57:33,040
Speaker 3: meet them face to face and there's nothing There's absolutely

1050
00:57:33,080 --> 00:57:38,560
Speaker 3: nothing there, right. There is just something about tangibly meeting someone,

1051
00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:43,120
Speaker 3: the quirks around them, the nuances around them, that needs

1052
00:57:43,160 --> 00:57:45,000
Speaker 3: to be integrated within the mix.

1053
00:57:45,280 --> 00:57:49,720
Speaker 1: You mentioned run clubs and stuff like that. Where else

1054
00:57:49,720 --> 00:57:53,040
Speaker 1: would you say are probably a far healthier place to

1055
00:57:53,080 --> 00:57:56,640
Speaker 1: meet a person and sitting alone on your couch with

1056
00:57:56,720 --> 00:57:57,760
Speaker 1: your ice creams wiping.

1057
00:57:59,360 --> 00:58:02,600
Speaker 3: I guess it's it's an interesting question. Definitely, those spots

1058
00:58:02,600 --> 00:58:06,800
Speaker 3: of exercise are points where people you know can definitely connect.

1059
00:58:06,960 --> 00:58:09,000
Speaker 3: And I don't know if you've heard about, you know,

1060
00:58:09,040 --> 00:58:12,000
Speaker 3: these days with run clubs, if you're wearing pink socks,

1061
00:58:12,800 --> 00:58:17,120
Speaker 3: that indicates you're single. What yeah, yeah, So if you're

1062
00:58:17,160 --> 00:58:19,280
Speaker 3: you're looking to mingle at the run club, you pull

1063
00:58:19,360 --> 00:58:21,120
Speaker 3: up your pink socks and you go for it.

1064
00:58:21,400 --> 00:58:25,200
Speaker 1: This is like a Crystal's nightclub in Bunderberg back in

1065
00:58:25,240 --> 00:58:29,520
Speaker 1: the day. This is like, there you go. I'm happy

1066
00:58:29,520 --> 00:58:30,160
Speaker 1: to hear it.

1067
00:58:30,280 --> 00:58:33,040
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, So if you have been wearing pink socks

1068
00:58:33,040 --> 00:58:35,920
Speaker 3: at run club for no reason, you.

1069
00:58:35,880 --> 00:58:38,760
Speaker 1: Today, so please don't take that the wrong the wrong light.

1070
00:58:39,720 --> 00:58:43,320
Speaker 1: So my wife's Fijian. And depending on what part of

1071
00:58:43,360 --> 00:58:46,480
Speaker 1: Fiji you're in, yeah, you often see you'll see the

1072
00:58:46,680 --> 00:58:49,560
Speaker 1: people wear a flower behind their ears. Yes, yeah, it's

1073
00:58:49,600 --> 00:58:52,640
Speaker 1: called the techi techie depending on which area you're in,

1074
00:58:52,680 --> 00:58:55,720
Speaker 1: because it can change if you wear it behind such

1075
00:58:55,800 --> 00:59:00,640
Speaker 1: this year, for example, that means you're taken the other ears. Think, well, yes,

1076
00:59:00,720 --> 00:59:03,480
Speaker 1: and that's there, it is, it's right there.

1077
00:59:03,520 --> 00:59:07,080
Speaker 3: Yes, and it's it's great. Right. It's a symbol of

1078
00:59:07,360 --> 00:59:10,720
Speaker 3: you know, singletom and that you look into mingle and

1079
00:59:10,760 --> 00:59:12,960
Speaker 3: there was also there was a product that was started

1080
00:59:13,040 --> 00:59:15,640
Speaker 3: up in a Scandinavian country a couple of years ago.

1081
00:59:15,800 --> 00:59:18,800
Speaker 3: It was a peering. It was called the Peering, which

1082
00:59:18,840 --> 00:59:21,439
Speaker 3: is kind of like this turquoise band that you wear,

1083
00:59:22,200 --> 00:59:24,080
Speaker 3: and it had a bit of take up in Australia

1084
00:59:24,120 --> 00:59:27,080
Speaker 3: as well, which kind of shows people that you're single,

1085
00:59:27,160 --> 00:59:28,480
Speaker 3: so you can wear it anywhere and.

1086
00:59:28,480 --> 00:59:32,840
Speaker 1: You see it's a particular Yes it's turquoise, and you're

1087
00:59:32,880 --> 00:59:35,960
Speaker 1: sort of demonstrating to people you're single and you're open

1088
00:59:36,400 --> 00:59:40,720
Speaker 1: to those chats. Physical intimacy is a need of a human.

1089
00:59:40,760 --> 00:59:42,120
Speaker 1: We need to eat, we need to breathe, we need

1090
00:59:42,200 --> 00:59:44,560
Speaker 1: to drink water, we need to be touched. It is

1091
00:59:44,600 --> 00:59:46,600
Speaker 1: what we need that if you don't get touched, it

1092
00:59:46,760 --> 00:59:50,760
Speaker 1: is bad for you. Yes, it is health in health healthwise,

1093
00:59:50,840 --> 00:59:53,080
Speaker 1: it is bad for you. I understand that you do

1094
00:59:53,080 --> 00:59:55,240
Speaker 1: have needs, but try it real hard. Understand that there

1095
00:59:55,240 --> 00:59:57,720
Speaker 1: are people trying to exploit those needs. People are trying

1096
00:59:57,720 --> 01:00:00,320
Speaker 1: to sell your terrible food when you're hungry, when there's

1097
01:00:00,320 --> 01:00:02,480
Speaker 1: actually good food. And I don't know if the kind

1098
01:00:02,480 --> 01:00:04,080
Speaker 1: of intimacy that people are trying to sell you with

1099
01:00:04,120 --> 01:00:05,560
Speaker 1: these apps is actually.

1100
01:00:06,120 --> 01:00:10,120
Speaker 3: Yes, the right kind of intimacy. Yeah. I mean, look,

1101
01:00:10,160 --> 01:00:12,640
Speaker 3: I think that to some degree, like as much as

1102
01:00:12,640 --> 01:00:16,880
Speaker 3: I'd say to people, you know, go app sober and

1103
01:00:17,120 --> 01:00:19,680
Speaker 3: just you know, try the face to face domain. And

1104
01:00:19,720 --> 01:00:22,560
Speaker 3: I kind of feel like it is part of just

1105
01:00:22,800 --> 01:00:26,720
Speaker 3: existing within the relationship space in twenty twenty five, and

1106
01:00:26,760 --> 01:00:29,480
Speaker 3: you sort of have to deal with it. I guess

1107
01:00:29,480 --> 01:00:32,000
Speaker 3: it's the way that you choose to deal with it

1108
01:00:32,040 --> 01:00:34,760
Speaker 3: as well, and the way you choose to engage or

1109
01:00:34,760 --> 01:00:38,360
Speaker 3: in the online space, and you know the fact that

1110
01:00:38,400 --> 01:00:42,440
Speaker 3: you kind of have to keep your integrity within that

1111
01:00:42,520 --> 01:00:46,600
Speaker 3: space as well, because there is kind of a overwhelming

1112
01:00:47,320 --> 01:00:51,080
Speaker 3: push towards Okay, well someone has judged me and acted

1113
01:00:51,120 --> 01:00:53,640
Speaker 3: in this way and I've you know, cut them, They've

1114
01:00:53,680 --> 01:00:55,880
Speaker 3: cut me off, so I'm going to ghost this person

1115
01:00:55,960 --> 01:00:58,280
Speaker 3: or I'm going to do this in return. So it's

1116
01:00:58,400 --> 01:01:02,920
Speaker 3: kind of like bringing that lel of integrity to relationships,

1117
01:01:02,960 --> 01:01:05,720
Speaker 3: which is really how we should be engaging, you know,

1118
01:01:05,840 --> 01:01:09,320
Speaker 3: all the time we're not. It's it's simple stuff.

1119
01:01:09,360 --> 01:01:13,440
Speaker 1: It's not lunchtime in high school, all right, we're grinded

1120
01:01:13,520 --> 01:01:17,720
Speaker 1: as we pay tax. You know, we can figure it out.

1121
01:01:18,200 --> 01:01:20,800
Speaker 1: We can figure it out. Thank you so much for

1122
01:01:20,800 --> 01:01:22,960
Speaker 1: coming in. Thanks for taking it. Thanks for doing the

1123
01:01:23,040 --> 01:01:23,640
Speaker 1: research on this.

1124
01:01:23,880 --> 01:01:26,479
Speaker 3: I think it's such a powerful subject and I think

1125
01:01:26,520 --> 01:01:29,920
Speaker 3: that you know, love, intimacy, relationships, they can't bear the

1126
01:01:31,160 --> 01:01:33,720
Speaker 3: you know, the bricks in the mix for our lives.

1127
01:01:33,760 --> 01:01:35,880
Speaker 3: They govern our lives in so many different ways, but

1128
01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:38,400
Speaker 3: unfortunately we often kind of see it as you know,

1129
01:01:38,560 --> 01:01:40,200
Speaker 3: a bit of fluff on the size and not the

1130
01:01:40,240 --> 01:01:44,120
Speaker 3: integral components within the mix. So, you know, being able

1131
01:01:44,200 --> 01:01:47,840
Speaker 3: to study them and being able to give them this

1132
01:01:47,960 --> 01:01:50,080
Speaker 3: focus is really important.

1133
01:01:50,800 --> 01:01:53,200
Speaker 1: I look forward to seeing how you play role in

1134
01:01:53,320 --> 01:01:57,480
Speaker 1: changing the marriage and divorce and birth rates of our

1135
01:01:57,480 --> 01:02:03,120
Speaker 1: country going forward. May a thousand Babies.

1136
01:02:02,680 --> 01:02:04,240
Speaker 3: Blue, I'll keep you up today.

1137
01:02:07,480 --> 01:02:10,920
Speaker 1: And that was Lesa Portland PhD. Ten Ways to Find

1138
01:02:10,960 --> 01:02:13,320
Speaker 1: Love and How to Keep a Guide to Romance in

1139
01:02:13,360 --> 01:02:15,840
Speaker 1: the Digital World. There's her latest book. I really hope

1140
01:02:15,840 --> 01:02:18,680
Speaker 1: you've got something out of that conversation. The cycle that

1141
01:02:18,720 --> 01:02:25,840
Speaker 1: she described feeling disenchanted, feeling disenheartened, feeling rejected, deleting the thing,

1142
01:02:26,320 --> 01:02:28,040
Speaker 1: being lonely for a couple of days, and then putting

1143
01:02:28,080 --> 01:02:30,280
Speaker 1: the thing back on your phone. I've done that way

1144
01:02:30,320 --> 01:02:32,760
Speaker 1: too many times, and I know I'm not alone, but

1145
01:02:32,800 --> 01:02:35,720
Speaker 1: it's nice to know that someone very smart is working

1146
01:02:35,720 --> 01:02:37,080
Speaker 1: on how we might be able to do it better.

1147
01:02:37,760 --> 01:02:39,560
Speaker 1: I hope you enjoyed that. Thanks very much for listening

1148
01:02:39,600 --> 01:02:41,160
Speaker 1: to the show. Come and see us at Story Club

1149
01:02:41,320 --> 01:02:44,680
Speaker 1: April thirteenth at the Marrickville. Tickets are still around. Thanks

1150
01:02:44,720 --> 01:02:47,080
Speaker 1: Adam a bunch of producing this show with me. I'll

1151
01:02:47,080 --> 01:02:53,800
Speaker 1: see you Monday,