WEBVTT - How Australia is taking advantage of one neighbour’s climate crisis 0:00:01.240 --> 0:00:09.000 I'm Nicole Johnston and you're listening to seven AM. In 0:00:09.080 --> 0:00:13.800 late twenty twenty three, Australia signed a landmark treaty with Tuvarlu, 0:00:14.040 --> 0:00:18.200 a low line Pacific nation threatened by climate change, promising 0:00:18.200 --> 0:00:22.840 a special visa pathway, disaster support and closer security ties. 0:00:23.440 --> 0:00:26.160 The deal is now in force and the first climate 0:00:26.200 --> 0:00:30.400 refugees have begun arriving in Australia, and this year Tavarlu 0:00:30.480 --> 0:00:33.680 will help host key Pacific climate talks ahead of KOPP. 0:00:34.320 --> 0:00:36.760 But the questions at the heart of this agreement have 0:00:36.800 --> 0:00:40.159 not gone away, as rising seas threaten the future of 0:00:40.200 --> 0:00:43.960 one of our smallest neighbors. Is Australia offering a genuine 0:00:44.040 --> 0:00:47.920 lifeline or using the climate crisis to deepen its own 0:00:47.920 --> 0:00:51.599 influence in the Pacific. Today we're bringing you an episode 0:00:51.760 --> 0:00:56.120 where Ange McCormack speaks to national correspondent for the Saturday Paper, 0:00:56.320 --> 0:01:00.560 Mike Sekham on the agreement between Australia and Tuvarlu and 0:01:00.600 --> 0:01:09.840 whether Australia is helping them or themselves. It's Sunday, March 0:01:09.880 --> 0:01:13.880 twenty nine. The episode first ed in November twenty twenty three. 0:01:16.720 --> 0:01:20.120 Mike. Earlier this month, Prime Minister Anthony Albanesi was in 0:01:20.160 --> 0:01:23.240 the Cook Islands for the Pacific Islands Forum and he's 0:01:23.280 --> 0:01:26.120 a prised some by announcing this new agreement with a 0:01:26.160 --> 0:01:29.840 small Pacific island nation to Varlu. Can you tell me 0:01:29.880 --> 0:01:30.759 about what happened. 0:01:31.360 --> 0:01:33.240 Yeah, well, it was announced at the conclusion of the 0:01:33.240 --> 0:01:37.560 Pacific Islands Forum, where Albanizi had a joint press conference 0:01:37.560 --> 0:01:40.720 alongside the Prime Minister of Tuvalu, Prime Minister Natano. 0:01:41.120 --> 0:01:44.800 Well, thank you so much, Prime Minister Natano, and thank 0:01:44.800 --> 0:01:49.120 you for your leadership in approaching Australia with this request. 0:01:49.560 --> 0:01:51.840 Wearing matching blue shirts as they tend to do at 0:01:51.840 --> 0:01:56.000 these international summits, and they announced a quote groundbreaking unquote 0:01:56.040 --> 0:01:58.520 agreement between the two nations. 0:01:58.200 --> 0:02:02.760 And the Australia to Varalu Fellipili union will be regarded 0:02:03.000 --> 0:02:08.280 as a significant day in which Australia acknowledged that we 0:02:08.400 --> 0:02:14.079 are part of the Pacific family that with that comes responsibility. 0:02:14.320 --> 0:02:15.840 And this I must say came as a surprise to 0:02:15.840 --> 0:02:19.000 almost everyone, including a lot of the two voluons. It 0:02:19.040 --> 0:02:22.080 seems to have been an Australian initiative and was not 0:02:22.320 --> 0:02:25.480 flagged in advance. And I might say there seems to 0:02:25.520 --> 0:02:28.920 be a growing amount of criticism within the nation itself 0:02:29.000 --> 0:02:32.320 about the lack of consultation. But anyway, that aside, it's 0:02:32.360 --> 0:02:36.919 called the Australian two volue Phallippeely Union, that being from 0:02:36.960 --> 0:02:40.720 the two voluon word for traditional values of good and neighborlinness, 0:02:41.120 --> 0:02:42.520 care and mutual respect. 0:02:42.960 --> 0:02:47.760 The treaty covers three main areas of cooperation, climate change, 0:02:48.160 --> 0:02:50.639 human mobility and security. 0:02:51.240 --> 0:02:54.760 What we promised. What Australia promised was more assistance to 0:02:54.840 --> 0:03:00.040 cope with climate change, so that involves reclaiming some land 0:03:00.120 --> 0:03:02.840 on the island. They're planning to increase the land area 0:03:02.840 --> 0:03:06.360 for the capital by about six percent. It recommitted Australia 0:03:06.360 --> 0:03:09.559 to providing aid and assistance in response to natural disasters 0:03:09.600 --> 0:03:14.040 like cyclones, as well as public health emergencies and an 0:03:14.040 --> 0:03:18.960 interesting one, military aggression against Tuvalu. Most notably though, it 0:03:19.080 --> 0:03:24.120 also provided for what it called a special Human Mobility 0:03:24.320 --> 0:03:28.600 Pathway which would allow two valuins access to Australia. So 0:03:28.840 --> 0:03:31.720 this would allow up to two hundred and eighty, the 0:03:31.760 --> 0:03:36.320 Prime Minister said, to migrate to Australia per year, not 0:03:36.400 --> 0:03:39.240 only to live or study or work, but it would 0:03:39.240 --> 0:03:43.240 also give the maxis to education, health, income and family 0:03:43.240 --> 0:03:45.600 support on arrival. So it's a pretty generous sort of 0:03:45.600 --> 0:03:48.800 a deal in that regard. And Albanize he called it 0:03:48.800 --> 0:03:51.640 the most significant agreement between Australia and the Pacific island 0:03:51.720 --> 0:03:54.080 nation ever and he's probably right. 0:03:54.720 --> 0:03:58.320 And how important is this agreement to two Valu? Why 0:03:58.360 --> 0:03:59.520 did they sign up for it? 0:04:00.240 --> 0:04:02.720 You know, we often talk about the existential threat of 0:04:02.760 --> 0:04:06.000 climate change in the kind of abstract term, but you know, 0:04:06.080 --> 0:04:10.200 in this case, Tuvalu is literally experiencing it. Rising sea 0:04:10.240 --> 0:04:13.440 levels are happening before their eyes. The Foreign Minister of 0:04:13.480 --> 0:04:17.960 Tuvalu famously recorded a speech to a climate change conference 0:04:18.000 --> 0:04:20.880 summit in twenty twenty one standing knee deep in water 0:04:21.040 --> 0:04:21.760 in Tuvaluk. 0:04:21.800 --> 0:04:24.520 We are living the realities of climate change sea level 0:04:24.600 --> 0:04:27.560 rise as you stand watching me today at CLOP twenty six. 0:04:28.400 --> 0:04:30.960 We cannot wait for speeches when the sea is rising 0:04:31.000 --> 0:04:32.000 around us all the time. 0:04:32.480 --> 0:04:34.880 To some of these low lying nations like tu Valu, 0:04:35.040 --> 0:04:37.680 it's a very very big threat. I mean, can we 0:04:37.720 --> 0:04:39.680 shift from a minute a long way from you know, 0:04:39.839 --> 0:04:42.960 little tropical two Volu to big frigid Greenland To underline 0:04:43.000 --> 0:04:46.080 this point, Greenland's ice cap is melting at an ever 0:04:46.120 --> 0:04:49.560 increasing rate, and there are some scientific estimates that suggest 0:04:49.600 --> 0:04:53.200 it could melt away entirely if the globe warms by 0:04:53.279 --> 0:04:56.440 just one point six degrees above pre industrial levels, which 0:04:56.480 --> 0:04:59.480 isn't much when you consider we're already warmed to a 0:04:59.560 --> 0:05:03.360 by about one point two degrees, and if the Greenland 0:05:03.400 --> 0:05:06.640 ice cap melts, that would raise global sea levels by 0:05:06.680 --> 0:05:09.800 seven meters. Now at its highest point, two volu is 0:05:10.279 --> 0:05:12.599 just four point six meters above the current sea level, 0:05:12.720 --> 0:05:15.000 So you know, you can see why the fate of 0:05:15.040 --> 0:05:17.919 the Greenland ice sheet is of considerable interest to people 0:05:18.160 --> 0:05:21.320 a long way away and two valu so it could, 0:05:21.440 --> 0:05:25.120 and given the current trajectory of global greenhouse gas emissions, 0:05:25.680 --> 0:05:28.320 it likely will, I'm afraid to say, vanish beneath the 0:05:28.320 --> 0:05:31.919 waves within a few generations. So the country is in 0:05:31.960 --> 0:05:35.840 the process of essentially replicating itself in the metaverse as 0:05:35.839 --> 0:05:39.880 a way of safeguarding its culture and its sovereignty in 0:05:39.920 --> 0:05:42.279 the event of the loss of the land and the 0:05:42.320 --> 0:05:43.560 displacement of its people. 0:05:44.120 --> 0:05:46.839 As our land disappears, we have no choice but to 0:05:46.839 --> 0:05:51.000 become the world's first digital nation. Our land, our ocean, 0:05:51.240 --> 0:05:54.360 our culture are the most precious assets of our people 0:05:55.000 --> 0:05:57.200 and to keep them safe from harm. No matter what 0:05:57.240 --> 0:06:01.320 happens in the physical world will move them to the island. 0:06:02.040 --> 0:06:04.479 They need to figure out where their citizens might go 0:06:04.839 --> 0:06:08.560 if and when this happens, and signing this agreement with 0:06:08.600 --> 0:06:12.200 Australia is perhaps one part of the solution. But this 0:06:12.360 --> 0:06:16.120 wasn't purely a deal about climate change threats and good 0:06:16.160 --> 0:06:20.800 neighborliness in inverted commerce and mutual respect. It actually contained 0:06:21.120 --> 0:06:24.160 quite a bit of detail about security and defense related matters. 0:06:24.440 --> 0:06:24.600 Yeah. 0:06:24.680 --> 0:06:27.160 Right, So there's a bit more to this union than 0:06:27.320 --> 0:06:31.520 just Australia helping out one of its neighbors. What's Australia 0:06:31.560 --> 0:06:32.200 getting out of this? 0:06:32.440 --> 0:06:35.040 Well, you're right, there's a lot more to it. Interestingly, 0:06:35.200 --> 0:06:38.080 I think the word sovereignty appeared in the statement a lot. 0:06:38.480 --> 0:06:42.159 The agreement committed us to mutual respect and support for 0:06:42.200 --> 0:06:44.960 each other's sovereignty, and that is at the heart of 0:06:45.040 --> 0:06:48.360 the Falloppeely Union. But some of the detail in the 0:06:48.400 --> 0:06:53.120 treaty itself suggests that it would significantly impact on two 0:06:53.200 --> 0:06:57.359 Valu's sovereignty, which typically is defined as a nation's ability 0:06:57.400 --> 0:07:04.080 to determine its own affairs. So let me quote some 0:07:04.120 --> 0:07:07.679 of the wording of the actual agreement, Tuvalu shall mutually 0:07:07.720 --> 0:07:12.040 agree with Australia any partnership, arrangement or engagement with any 0:07:12.080 --> 0:07:15.680 other state or entity on security and defense related matters. 0:07:15.720 --> 0:07:19.640 Such matters include, but are not limited to, defense policing, 0:07:19.880 --> 0:07:26.520 border protection, cybersecurity, critical infrastructure including ports, telecommunications, and energy infrastructure. 0:07:27.280 --> 0:07:31.000 In other words, two Volu would need Australia's agreement before 0:07:31.000 --> 0:07:32.760 it could deal with other countries in any of these 0:07:32.840 --> 0:07:36.880 listed areas. Australia has effectively a veto and it's pretty 0:07:36.920 --> 0:07:39.440 clear that this relates to one nation in particular, that 0:07:39.640 --> 0:07:40.760 nation being China. 0:07:43.360 --> 0:07:46.680 Coming up after the break, how Australia is using tuvalue 0:07:46.800 --> 0:07:58.320 to its strategic advantage, Mike, This treaty that Australia has 0:07:58.360 --> 0:08:01.680 agreed to with Suvalu would give Australia a veto power 0:08:01.760 --> 0:08:04.880 over any deals to Volume might consider with China and 0:08:04.960 --> 0:08:10.320 other countries in the region. What's Australia concerned about exactly, Well. 0:08:10.080 --> 0:08:13.200 What we're concerned about is Chinese efforts to grow China's 0:08:13.200 --> 0:08:16.480 influence in the Pacific, which have been underway for some years, 0:08:16.920 --> 0:08:19.800 most recently, I guess they were heightened last year after 0:08:19.840 --> 0:08:23.200 the Solomon Islands signed a security packed with China, which 0:08:23.320 --> 0:08:26.800 underline a shift in the Solomon's foreign policy towards Beijing, 0:08:27.360 --> 0:08:30.680 and it was the first known bilateral security agreement between 0:08:30.760 --> 0:08:34.000 China and a country in the Pacific. It was shrouded 0:08:34.000 --> 0:08:37.480 in some secrecy, but it seemed to revolve mostly about 0:08:37.559 --> 0:08:40.199 China being able to provide police and security support to 0:08:40.240 --> 0:08:43.439 the nation. But the bigger concern for Australia was that 0:08:43.920 --> 0:08:46.040 the deal might allow China to one day build a 0:08:46.040 --> 0:08:49.360 military base in the Solomon Islands. Tuvalu at the moment 0:08:49.440 --> 0:08:52.360 is one of the few nations that still officially recognizes Taiwan, 0:08:52.480 --> 0:08:55.960 so they're not yet in Beijing's orbit, and Australia doesn't 0:08:56.000 --> 0:08:58.319 want them to go there. All the Pacific nations, I 0:08:58.320 --> 0:09:00.680 guess you would say, have essentially become to a greater 0:09:00.720 --> 0:09:04.880 and lesser extent pawns in this big geostrategic game being 0:09:04.920 --> 0:09:09.319 played out between much bigger neighbors China, the US and Australia. 0:09:09.840 --> 0:09:13.240 So if this, from Australia's point of view, is about 0:09:13.360 --> 0:09:17.679 limiting China's influence in the region, is this the start 0:09:17.720 --> 0:09:22.160 of something bigger? Potentially will Australia approach other Pacific countries 0:09:22.240 --> 0:09:23.000 in the same way. 0:09:23.400 --> 0:09:27.560 Well, Albinizi indicated as much. The government, it seems would 0:09:27.559 --> 0:09:30.240 be willing to enter similar agreements on a sort of 0:09:30.240 --> 0:09:33.080 bespoke case by case basis was the way it was put. 0:09:33.280 --> 0:09:36.160 And are you hoping other Pacific nations like Caravas or 0:09:36.240 --> 0:09:39.079 Nauru might take up a similar deal with Australia. 0:09:39.240 --> 0:09:42.719 Well, that's a matter for those nations. I think what 0:09:42.800 --> 0:09:47.160 this does signal is how we are prepared to approach 0:09:47.679 --> 0:09:49.600 our membership of the Pacific family. 0:09:49.720 --> 0:09:51.440 So the offer is there from Australia. 0:09:51.600 --> 0:09:56.400 I think what it says is we're prepared to be 0:09:57.080 --> 0:09:59.520 a real partner of choice, an engage partner. 0:10:00.080 --> 0:10:03.920 Of course, this one is relatively small beer, inasmuch as 0:10:03.920 --> 0:10:07.320 two volu only has about eleven two hundred citizens. Other 0:10:07.480 --> 0:10:10.880 countries are much more populous. But the idea for allowing 0:10:10.960 --> 0:10:14.439 two Voluons to come to Australia as climate refugees has 0:10:14.520 --> 0:10:18.040 actually been kicking around for some time. Back in twenty nineteen, 0:10:18.880 --> 0:10:22.360 former Prime Minister Kevin Rudd offered a suggestion that kind 0:10:22.360 --> 0:10:25.360 of fell somewhere between what you might call latter day 0:10:25.360 --> 0:10:28.880 imperialism and corporate buyout. And what he proposed was that 0:10:28.920 --> 0:10:32.920 Australia accept the entire population of two Valu and possibly 0:10:32.960 --> 0:10:36.640 other Pacific countries if and when those countries became uninhabitable 0:10:37.120 --> 0:10:41.360 in exchange for their and I'm quoting here their territorial seas, 0:10:41.640 --> 0:10:45.400 their vast exclusive economic zones, including the preservation of their 0:10:45.400 --> 0:10:48.080 fisheries reserves. So in other words, we would get the 0:10:48.080 --> 0:10:52.240 people and we would also get access to essentially their 0:10:52.360 --> 0:10:56.160 territorial waters and all that lay beneath. Anyway, that proposal 0:10:56.200 --> 0:10:59.560 didn't fly, but it does raise a lot of interesting 0:10:59.640 --> 0:11:03.480 questions about the rights of climate refugees. If a country 0:11:03.559 --> 0:11:07.840 is submerged, well does statehood survive if the former residents 0:11:07.880 --> 0:11:11.400 move to another country, Can they maintain the citizenship rights 0:11:11.400 --> 0:11:13.439 of their former home that is no longer their or 0:11:13.559 --> 0:11:16.199 is no longer habitable, and can they pass those on 0:11:16.280 --> 0:11:19.840 to their children? What happens to the territorial waters around 0:11:19.880 --> 0:11:24.000 a sunken nation in the case of Tuvalu, would two 0:11:24.040 --> 0:11:27.240 valuins located somewhere else still control the fishing and other rights. 0:11:27.720 --> 0:11:30.760 It's all very legally fraught and it's something that experts 0:11:31.200 --> 0:11:35.440 in international refugee law are looking at very closely. Along 0:11:35.440 --> 0:11:37.440 the way. In doing this story, I spoke to one 0:11:37.480 --> 0:11:42.120 of the foremost experts. Actually, I spoke to Professor Jane McCadam, 0:11:42.360 --> 0:11:45.760 who's the director of the Kaldor Center for International Refugee 0:11:45.840 --> 0:11:48.920 Law at the University of New South Wales, and she 0:11:49.040 --> 0:11:52.480 confirmed this two Valu deal is the world's first bilateral 0:11:52.520 --> 0:11:57.400 agreement specifically on climate mobility, and she suggests more agreements 0:11:57.760 --> 0:12:00.760 could follow. But she also said that the specific two 0:12:00.840 --> 0:12:03.760 volu agreement was perhaps not the biggest thing to come 0:12:03.800 --> 0:12:07.000 out of the Pacific Island's Forum. Another big development at 0:12:07.000 --> 0:12:10.440 the forum meeting that was downplayed was the endorsement of 0:12:10.480 --> 0:12:14.679 something called the Pacific Regional Framework on Climate Mobility. But 0:12:14.960 --> 0:12:18.640 it addressed something even bigger, I think than the relocation 0:12:18.840 --> 0:12:22.520 of Pacific Island people. It addressed the controversial subject of 0:12:23.320 --> 0:12:26.880 the extent to which the countries that emit large amounts 0:12:26.920 --> 0:12:31.720 of greenhouse gases should have to compensate those who have 0:12:31.840 --> 0:12:35.960 suffered loss and damage as a result. So, as McAdam said, 0:12:36.280 --> 0:12:39.079 in the Pacific, your identity is absolutely bound up with 0:12:39.120 --> 0:12:42.280 the land and the sea, and so being dislocated from 0:12:42.320 --> 0:12:47.160 that can have quite traumatic intergenerational consequences. I'll quote her. 0:12:47.440 --> 0:12:50.480 We say very clearly that displacement and loss of home 0:12:50.880 --> 0:12:54.520 is arguably the greatest form of loss and damage, and 0:12:54.679 --> 0:12:58.440 that's in the Pacific Mobility framework. These are big questions 0:12:58.480 --> 0:13:01.440 for the world at large. To what extent should the 0:13:01.480 --> 0:13:05.319 countries that have primarily caused climate change have to compensate 0:13:05.360 --> 0:13:07.960 those who will be most severely impacted. And that's going 0:13:08.000 --> 0:13:09.880 to be a major agenda item for the next big 0:13:09.880 --> 0:13:12.240 climate conference in Dubai, which starts at the end of 0:13:12.240 --> 0:13:12.720 this month. 0:13:13.360 --> 0:13:16.160 So, Mike, this union has a lot more to it, 0:13:16.200 --> 0:13:18.800 I think than how it was framed, you know, as 0:13:18.880 --> 0:13:23.120 this friendly agreement between two neighbors. It's been done with 0:13:23.200 --> 0:13:26.840 security considerations in mind, and it also kind of gives 0:13:26.880 --> 0:13:30.319 the impression that Australia is taking some kind of action 0:13:30.520 --> 0:13:34.000 on climate change. But is there a more cynical or 0:13:34.040 --> 0:13:37.480 critical reading of this agreement that's kind of being glossed 0:13:37.480 --> 0:13:38.000 over here. 0:13:38.400 --> 0:13:41.520 I don't think cynical at all. Definitely critical, I would say, 0:13:42.160 --> 0:13:46.080 because this agreement looks like it's doing something about climate change. 0:13:46.320 --> 0:13:48.160 I mean it addresses I guess you would say, the 0:13:48.200 --> 0:13:50.680 effects of climate change. What it doesn't do is address 0:13:50.720 --> 0:13:53.920 the causes two valuins are essentially on a sinking ship, 0:13:54.520 --> 0:13:58.200 and having Australia rescue them isn't stopping climate change. It's 0:13:58.280 --> 0:14:02.839 just responding to the arms of our own Doing more 0:14:02.880 --> 0:14:06.920 effective climate policy would be something that stops climate change 0:14:06.920 --> 0:14:09.480 in the first place, you know, like reducing our alliance 0:14:09.520 --> 0:14:15.839 on fossil fuels. So I spoke with a noted physicist, 0:14:15.840 --> 0:14:19.120 doctor Bill Hare, a veteran of the climate sphere, and 0:14:19.160 --> 0:14:22.520 he's the chief executive and senior scientist at Climate Analytics. 0:14:23.040 --> 0:14:26.080 Quoting him, the political class seems to be doubling down 0:14:26.120 --> 0:14:29.480 on more gas and to some extent, more coal. He, 0:14:29.720 --> 0:14:34.720 like others, see the two volue deal as essentially checkbook diplomacy, 0:14:34.920 --> 0:14:37.520 you know. He said, they've kind of bought off two 0:14:37.600 --> 0:14:41.920 valu They're buying support in the Pacific for their geostrategic interests. 0:14:42.520 --> 0:14:45.560 And while this treaty and possibly others to follow will 0:14:45.560 --> 0:14:48.840 be a lifeline, every decade we go on with emissions 0:14:48.880 --> 0:14:52.400 at present levels means another ten or fifteen sentiment is 0:14:52.480 --> 0:14:55.760 of long term sea level rise. And that's the bottom line. 0:14:56.320 --> 0:14:59.240 So you know the word phallippeally that means good neighbor. 0:14:59.720 --> 0:15:02.000 You know, it poses the question would a good neighbor 0:15:02.080 --> 0:15:04.800 let its actions destroy the land and the homes of others. 0:15:05.400 --> 0:15:08.680 It's about time we started addressing not just the symptoms, 0:15:08.680 --> 0:15:13.040 but the cause of this existential threat to our neighboring countries. 0:15:16.680 --> 0:15:18.200 Mike, thanks so much for your time today. 0:15:18.520 --> 0:15:19.000 Thanks Edge. 0:15:36.680 --> 0:15:39.320 We'll be back tomorrow with an episode on the Manosphere 0:15:39.720 --> 0:15:43.520 where we speak to misogyny and extremism researcher doctor Stephanie 0:15:43.560 --> 0:15:48.080 Westcott about why she thinks Louis Thrux's latest documentary missed 0:15:48.080 --> 0:15:48.440 the mark. 0:15:48.640 --> 0:15:52.680 I understand Louis Theroux's style and it works really well 0:15:52.880 --> 0:15:55.560 a lot of the time, but what it did in 0:15:55.680 --> 0:15:59.080 this instance, I think was actually just replicate the same 0:15:59.200 --> 0:16:01.800 position that lots of people are taking when they hear 0:16:02.240 --> 0:16:07.280 Manisphere type ideas or suggestions, which is just to sort 0:16:07.320 --> 0:16:11.960 of step back and observe and not necessarily step in 0:16:12.240 --> 0:16:14.600 to clarify or rebuke. 0:16:15.040 --> 0:16:18.360 I'm Nicole Johnston. This is seven AM. Thanks for listening.