1 00:00:05,881 --> 00:00:07,281 Speaker 1: Appoche production. 2 00:00:10,201 --> 00:00:13,641 Speaker 2: This podcast contains references to the sexual assault of children 3 00:00:13,801 --> 00:00:17,480 Speaker 2: and domestic violence. It's not recommended for younger listeners, and 4 00:00:17,601 --> 00:00:25,521 Speaker 2: discretion is advised. Welcome to Real Crime with Adam Shand. 5 00:00:25,561 --> 00:00:29,201 Speaker 2: I'm your host, Adam Shand. Since beginning this podcast, I've 6 00:00:29,201 --> 00:00:32,200 Speaker 2: been approached by a number of women seeking justice for 7 00:00:32,361 --> 00:00:36,840 Speaker 2: historical sexual assaults that have occurred, sometimes decades ago. My 8 00:00:36,961 --> 00:00:40,001 Speaker 2: sense of outrage and justice has moved me to advise 9 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:40,800 Speaker 2: and to take their. 10 00:00:40,681 --> 00:00:42,201 Speaker 3: Cases to police. 11 00:00:42,281 --> 00:00:45,200 Speaker 2: I've said this based on a perception that police are 12 00:00:45,241 --> 00:00:47,320 Speaker 2: more ready to pursue offenders. 13 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:48,761 Speaker 3: Even after many, many years. 14 00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:54,121 Speaker 2: Today's case we're discussing makes me think twice. In nineteen 15 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:57,881 Speaker 2: sixty eight, seven year old Marita Murphy was gang raped 16 00:00:57,921 --> 00:01:01,481 Speaker 2: by two teenage boys, a crime witness by a third. 17 00:01:02,801 --> 00:01:04,881 Speaker 2: She was discouraged from making a police report of the 18 00:01:04,881 --> 00:01:09,081 Speaker 2: time by her family and suffered in silence until twenty fourteen. 19 00:01:09,761 --> 00:01:12,241 Speaker 4: The policeman said to me, lady, I don't know what 20 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:14,080 Speaker 4: happened to you, but you need counseling. 21 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:18,921 Speaker 2: The police investigation went nowhere, and so Marita was left 22 00:01:18,961 --> 00:01:21,481 Speaker 2: to bring a civil suit against the perpetrators. 23 00:01:22,121 --> 00:01:23,920 Speaker 3: She lost that case and is. 24 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:26,601 Speaker 2: Now one hundred thousand dollars out of pocket. 25 00:01:27,081 --> 00:01:30,161 Speaker 1: My childhood was over at seven. It wouldn't matter how 26 00:01:30,241 --> 00:01:32,280 Speaker 1: much money someone gave me. Now I can't go and 27 00:01:32,321 --> 00:01:33,401 Speaker 1: buy a new childhood. 28 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:37,801 Speaker 2: This is a cautionary tale that suggests the odds are 29 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:42,081 Speaker 2: still stacked against the victims. Maurita has told her story 30 00:01:42,121 --> 00:01:45,681 Speaker 2: in an award winning documentary called You Be the Judge, 31 00:01:45,721 --> 00:01:48,641 Speaker 2: which you can find on YouTube. Breita keeps fighting for 32 00:01:48,841 --> 00:01:52,361 Speaker 2: justice and it's my pleasure to welcome her to real crime. 33 00:01:52,401 --> 00:01:57,921 Speaker 2: I'm Marita, my pleasure. It's a long story. Start at 34 00:01:57,921 --> 00:01:58,361 Speaker 2: the beginning. 35 00:01:59,121 --> 00:02:03,600 Speaker 4: It's a lifetime. My father died first of July nineteen 36 00:02:03,681 --> 00:02:09,000 Speaker 4: sixty eight. I lived in a Catholic community up in Gippsland, 37 00:02:09,201 --> 00:02:13,481 Speaker 4: past Pakenham and Nagoon, and it was a pretty sheltered existence. 38 00:02:14,441 --> 00:02:17,520 Speaker 4: But Mum got sick and I was the youngest of seven, 39 00:02:17,721 --> 00:02:19,960 Speaker 4: so she had a fair bit on her plate and 40 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:23,161 Speaker 4: I was home with Gran, who I worked out was 41 00:02:23,201 --> 00:02:25,481 Speaker 4: eighty four at that time and Mum had been an 42 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:29,160 Speaker 4: only child, so Gran was quite frail and not used 43 00:02:29,201 --> 00:02:32,401 Speaker 4: to lots of children. But I was picked up and 44 00:02:32,441 --> 00:02:37,041 Speaker 4: taken to Melbourne by a family. There I was suffered 45 00:02:37,121 --> 00:02:41,400 Speaker 4: very serious sexual abuse that was life altering and continues 46 00:02:41,441 --> 00:02:43,241 Speaker 4: to plague me to this day. 47 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:48,961 Speaker 2: Now, your memories are very clear about what happened, and 48 00:02:49,001 --> 00:02:51,841 Speaker 2: that's the difference to many other cases I've covered. 49 00:02:52,361 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 3: I mean, I know it's painful, but. 50 00:02:54,121 --> 00:02:55,401 Speaker 2: Do you want to share a little bit of a 51 00:02:55,481 --> 00:02:59,041 Speaker 2: story so people can get an idea of what you suffered. 52 00:02:59,881 --> 00:03:02,921 Speaker 4: I think you know a lot of people have repressed memories, 53 00:03:02,921 --> 00:03:05,761 Speaker 4: and I don't think I ever fell into that categree. 54 00:03:06,201 --> 00:03:08,881 Speaker 4: You're not trying to remember, you're trying to forget, but 55 00:03:09,041 --> 00:03:13,081 Speaker 4: you are imprinted. And the adults knew because I told 56 00:03:13,161 --> 00:03:17,680 Speaker 4: on these youths, and so my voice had power at 57 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 4: the age of seven, and Mum supported me because when 58 00:03:21,921 --> 00:03:24,761 Speaker 4: she got me back, she knew what had happened. And 59 00:03:25,481 --> 00:03:29,400 Speaker 4: I reported to the police in May twenty fourteen, as 60 00:03:29,441 --> 00:03:33,321 Speaker 4: the Royal Commission was into childhood sexual abuse was running 61 00:03:33,361 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 4: in Australia, with Ballarat featuring very highly and I kind 62 00:03:38,481 --> 00:03:42,201 Speaker 4: of just wanted to purge it. But when the police 63 00:03:42,241 --> 00:03:44,881 Speaker 4: found the main one, what's hard to say I was 64 00:03:44,921 --> 00:03:47,201 Speaker 4: the main one. He wasn't the main offender, but it 65 00:03:47,281 --> 00:03:50,281 Speaker 4: was his family's home that I was at. I had 66 00:03:50,281 --> 00:03:53,001 Speaker 4: this sense of relief that, oh, thank Heavens, this is over. 67 00:03:53,161 --> 00:03:56,321 Speaker 4: But to be the truth of it was that was 68 00:03:56,361 --> 00:04:00,761 Speaker 4: the beginning, because he said to the police when he 69 00:04:00,801 --> 00:04:03,721 Speaker 4: was interviewed, that he did not know me, and he 70 00:04:03,761 --> 00:04:07,521 Speaker 4: did not know his foster brother, an Aboriginal youth that 71 00:04:07,681 --> 00:04:10,721 Speaker 4: was staying with them at the time. His name was 72 00:04:10,761 --> 00:04:14,961 Speaker 4: Eugene Samuel Lovett, and I'm grateful to his mother to 73 00:04:15,041 --> 00:04:17,801 Speaker 4: this day that she blessed him with an exotic Greek 74 00:04:17,921 --> 00:04:20,961 Speaker 4: name meaning well born, because if he had a just 75 00:04:21,041 --> 00:04:25,601 Speaker 4: been called Fred or Barry, possibly we wouldn't have been 76 00:04:25,641 --> 00:04:29,001 Speaker 4: able to identify him. But I grew up with the 77 00:04:29,041 --> 00:04:32,440 Speaker 4: imprint of that was the first Aborigining I'd ever met. 78 00:04:33,081 --> 00:04:36,760 Speaker 4: He was a juvenile delinquent, he was a criminal. He 79 00:04:36,801 --> 00:04:40,641 Speaker 4: went on to become a serial predator. And if they're 80 00:04:40,681 --> 00:04:44,481 Speaker 4: not stopped, and he obviously wasn't stopped with me, and 81 00:04:44,481 --> 00:04:47,161 Speaker 4: he probably didn't face any consequences, that is the thing. 82 00:04:47,281 --> 00:04:51,081 Speaker 4: They just keep on reoffending. But to his credit, he 83 00:04:51,121 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 4: did the right thing. And when he passed away, I 84 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:57,161 Speaker 4: think in February twenty twenty, him and I had made peace, 85 00:04:57,801 --> 00:05:01,601 Speaker 4: and it's his support that's enabled me to speak freely. 86 00:05:02,361 --> 00:05:05,401 Speaker 4: I haven't been sued. The other party was a very 87 00:05:05,401 --> 00:05:12,241 Speaker 4: wealthy Melbourne entrepreneurial businessman and he's lied. He's committed perjury 88 00:05:12,361 --> 00:05:15,600 Speaker 4: in the EFFI David to court for the civil case. 89 00:05:15,681 --> 00:05:16,361 Speaker 1: He signed. 90 00:05:16,521 --> 00:05:18,520 Speaker 4: One of the questions he signed was that the two 91 00:05:18,561 --> 00:05:22,080 Speaker 4: families weren't known to one another. Well, why would my 92 00:05:22,161 --> 00:05:26,561 Speaker 4: sister have his home address and his parents' details in 93 00:05:26,601 --> 00:05:28,921 Speaker 4: her address book if we weren't known to one another. 94 00:05:29,001 --> 00:05:34,281 Speaker 4: But he's faced no consequences for his lies and I'm 95 00:05:34,281 --> 00:05:36,241 Speaker 4: out a pocket over one hundred thousand dollars. 96 00:05:36,281 --> 00:05:37,841 Speaker 1: That rankles a lot. 97 00:05:38,361 --> 00:05:39,081 Speaker 3: I'm sure it does. 98 00:05:39,561 --> 00:05:42,521 Speaker 2: We won't name him so he can't cause more financial 99 00:05:42,601 --> 00:05:45,041 Speaker 2: damage to you or I. You named him previously and 100 00:05:45,081 --> 00:05:47,401 Speaker 2: we won't do that again. But it was a simple 101 00:05:47,481 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 2: matter for him to deny this for so long as 102 00:05:51,961 --> 00:05:55,121 Speaker 2: you were left with few options with the police. 103 00:05:55,121 --> 00:05:56,161 Speaker 3: What did the police tell you? 104 00:05:58,241 --> 00:05:59,841 Speaker 1: Well, they were hot and cold. 105 00:05:59,921 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 4: Initially I reported in Ballarat and the detective here did 106 00:06:04,801 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 4: no good, and I hadn't included anybody much else. I 107 00:06:08,641 --> 00:06:11,761 Speaker 4: just purged this what was within me, trying to get 108 00:06:11,841 --> 00:06:15,601 Speaker 4: rid of it. And he asked if he could ring 109 00:06:15,641 --> 00:06:17,801 Speaker 4: and speak to my sister. She was the oldest of 110 00:06:17,841 --> 00:06:21,481 Speaker 4: the family by eleven years to me, and he rang 111 00:06:21,521 --> 00:06:24,161 Speaker 4: her in wa and she pulled out the address book 112 00:06:24,161 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 4: and gave him the address. But as a detective, he 113 00:06:27,001 --> 00:06:30,440 Speaker 4: didn't actually asked her to spell the surname. And it 114 00:06:30,481 --> 00:06:33,881 Speaker 4: can be pronounced and sound the same and have three 115 00:06:34,081 --> 00:06:37,801 Speaker 4: different spellings. I've seen three different spellings. My brother on 116 00:06:37,961 --> 00:06:42,401 Speaker 4: mum's obituary had spelt it wrong and that's what he 117 00:06:42,481 --> 00:06:45,721 Speaker 4: was dealing with. It was incorrect. So when he saw 118 00:06:45,761 --> 00:06:49,241 Speaker 4: that it was indeed a bayside suburb in Melbourne of Elstenwick, 119 00:06:49,801 --> 00:06:53,801 Speaker 4: it went to Morabin and the socket detective that took 120 00:06:53,801 --> 00:06:56,081 Speaker 4: it up there. I've never even met him, Adam. I've 121 00:06:56,121 --> 00:07:00,320 Speaker 4: traveled from Ballarat to Morabin on three occasions. He rang 122 00:07:00,401 --> 00:07:03,281 Speaker 4: my sister and she's obviously spelt the surname and he's 123 00:07:03,281 --> 00:07:06,121 Speaker 4: got him straight away. So he rang me very excitedly 124 00:07:06,201 --> 00:07:09,881 Speaker 4: and said I've interviewed him and the response was that 125 00:07:10,721 --> 00:07:12,801 Speaker 4: he's never heard of me, and he's never heard of 126 00:07:12,841 --> 00:07:18,081 Speaker 4: the Aborigine, his foster brother. But surprisingly then he went 127 00:07:18,161 --> 00:07:21,241 Speaker 4: one step further, this detective and he said that he 128 00:07:21,401 --> 00:07:24,001 Speaker 4: was a chance to go to Perth for something, and 129 00:07:24,041 --> 00:07:27,721 Speaker 4: he interviewed his younger brother, who was the witness to 130 00:07:27,761 --> 00:07:31,481 Speaker 4: the gang rape, and they wouldn't have been expecting that. 131 00:07:32,161 --> 00:07:35,761 Speaker 4: And the younger brother said that I didn't exist, but 132 00:07:35,881 --> 00:07:39,401 Speaker 4: Eugene did exist. So if I'm a seven year old 133 00:07:39,641 --> 00:07:42,401 Speaker 4: little girl from up in the country, how the hell 134 00:07:42,401 --> 00:07:46,441 Speaker 4: could I know they had an aboriginal juvenile delinquent staying 135 00:07:46,481 --> 00:07:49,561 Speaker 4: with them. So I just said to the police, well, 136 00:07:50,081 --> 00:07:54,161 Speaker 4: I'm going to approach this wealthy individual myself, and they 137 00:07:54,201 --> 00:07:56,161 Speaker 4: said you can't do that, and I'm like, who's going 138 00:07:56,201 --> 00:07:59,241 Speaker 4: to stop me? I'm an adult. He has a public place, 139 00:07:59,361 --> 00:08:03,321 Speaker 4: so I went there. He wasn't there, which was probably 140 00:08:03,321 --> 00:08:07,841 Speaker 4: a fortunate thing because I was getting angry. Howdare you 141 00:08:07,921 --> 00:08:12,241 Speaker 4: treat me in this manner? Callous? Just so sorry, just 142 00:08:12,361 --> 00:08:13,201 Speaker 4: do the right thing. 143 00:08:14,241 --> 00:08:15,001 Speaker 1: But I left some. 144 00:08:14,961 --> 00:08:18,601 Speaker 4: Information there for him, and his lawyer rang me and 145 00:08:18,641 --> 00:08:21,761 Speaker 4: set up a meeting in Tuaq. I went alone, but 146 00:08:22,401 --> 00:08:25,761 Speaker 4: my then husband and my sister, some people from mary 147 00:08:25,761 --> 00:08:28,801 Speaker 4: in Ole and the police knew, so they felt that 148 00:08:28,881 --> 00:08:32,561 Speaker 4: I was safe enough and I went met them with 149 00:08:32,641 --> 00:08:35,881 Speaker 4: them for an hour, where the end of it, they 150 00:08:36,561 --> 00:08:41,081 Speaker 4: threatened me and vacated the boardroom and he'd said to me, 151 00:08:41,921 --> 00:08:44,121 Speaker 4: I know David Hayes, and I'm like, oh, this is 152 00:08:44,201 --> 00:08:47,561 Speaker 4: excellent news, this is great. So I rang David Hayes, 153 00:08:47,961 --> 00:08:51,201 Speaker 4: you know, famous racing dynasty in Australia. I worked for 154 00:08:51,201 --> 00:08:54,041 Speaker 4: his dad for three or four years at Flemington because 155 00:08:54,081 --> 00:08:57,441 Speaker 4: I had no education. And David's now leading trainer in 156 00:08:57,481 --> 00:09:00,601 Speaker 4: Hong Kong. So I rang David from the boardroom and 157 00:09:00,641 --> 00:09:03,881 Speaker 4: we talked for twenty minutes. Obviously I didn't make any 158 00:09:03,881 --> 00:09:07,961 Speaker 4: accusations to him. But then I do this man for rape, 159 00:09:07,961 --> 00:09:09,681 Speaker 4: And as I say to people, why would you see 160 00:09:09,761 --> 00:09:12,321 Speaker 4: someone for rape. I'm just a stay at home mom 161 00:09:12,401 --> 00:09:16,201 Speaker 4: from a little country town in Victoria. Like I don't 162 00:09:16,241 --> 00:09:20,361 Speaker 4: have those kind of resources. It's absolutely crippled me morally. 163 00:09:20,441 --> 00:09:20,841 Speaker 1: I've won. 164 00:09:21,681 --> 00:09:24,521 Speaker 4: Their names are now online put there by the Supreme 165 00:09:24,561 --> 00:09:28,481 Speaker 4: Court of Melbourne. But I haven't even been compensated for 166 00:09:28,561 --> 00:09:31,721 Speaker 4: you Gene, and he signed a confession of sorts and 167 00:09:31,841 --> 00:09:35,441 Speaker 4: he's in my documentaries and that happened. 168 00:09:36,001 --> 00:09:37,521 Speaker 1: Wow, make it up? 169 00:09:37,641 --> 00:09:38,841 Speaker 3: Well, you didn't make it up. 170 00:09:38,881 --> 00:09:41,441 Speaker 2: And I think when I see the elements of your case, 171 00:09:42,041 --> 00:09:46,481 Speaker 2: the recollection is very striking. You remember the individuals. You 172 00:09:46,481 --> 00:09:50,521 Speaker 2: can see the textbook impact on a young child where 173 00:09:50,681 --> 00:09:53,961 Speaker 2: you go from being good at school and suddenly your 174 00:09:54,001 --> 00:09:57,881 Speaker 2: grades crash, you become uncontrollable, you have all kinds of 175 00:09:57,881 --> 00:10:02,241 Speaker 2: issues because you're not being listened to. You're being asked 176 00:10:02,241 --> 00:10:05,361 Speaker 2: to sweep this tragic or it was traumatic event under 177 00:10:05,401 --> 00:10:07,001 Speaker 2: the carpet. 178 00:10:06,681 --> 00:10:09,481 Speaker 4: Crimes, crimes that went on for a week to ten days, 179 00:10:09,481 --> 00:10:12,961 Speaker 4: and I reported to the police when I reported three 180 00:10:13,001 --> 00:10:16,081 Speaker 4: instances was actually a week to ten days of me 181 00:10:16,241 --> 00:10:21,241 Speaker 4: being the honeymoon child of unprotected sex. My brother told me, 182 00:10:21,281 --> 00:10:23,801 Speaker 4: and it's assigned Affi David now that they actually rape 183 00:10:23,841 --> 00:10:27,441 Speaker 4: me with a stick as well. So when you start 184 00:10:27,481 --> 00:10:32,081 Speaker 4: becoming sexually active and you're not stopped, you know, it's 185 00:10:32,521 --> 00:10:34,721 Speaker 4: like I wanted to eat chocolates, isn't it. If you've 186 00:10:34,721 --> 00:10:36,481 Speaker 4: got a box at chocolates. I mean, you're gonna eat 187 00:10:36,481 --> 00:10:38,681 Speaker 4: them till you feel sick of them. And I was 188 00:10:38,681 --> 00:10:41,401 Speaker 4: their victim. They were crimes and a child shouldn't be 189 00:10:41,401 --> 00:10:45,881 Speaker 4: expected to suck up serious criminal life altering offending. It's 190 00:10:45,921 --> 00:10:49,001 Speaker 4: not wrong. And if reporting in the systems that we 191 00:10:49,041 --> 00:10:51,681 Speaker 4: have in place worked at and we wouldn't have needed 192 00:10:51,841 --> 00:10:54,681 Speaker 4: a raw commission into childhood sexual abuse that ran in 193 00:10:54,681 --> 00:10:57,961 Speaker 4: Australia for five years and not being sexist, just being 194 00:10:58,001 --> 00:11:01,961 Speaker 4: factually it was fundamentally called for boys. The statistics will 195 00:11:01,961 --> 00:11:04,921 Speaker 4: show there are more girl victims than boy victims. But 196 00:11:05,161 --> 00:11:08,761 Speaker 4: society and I understand it, have great empathy towards a 197 00:11:08,801 --> 00:11:11,721 Speaker 4: young boy that sexually views because it interferes with his 198 00:11:11,881 --> 00:11:15,401 Speaker 4: natural masculinity as he's growing up. But to a child 199 00:11:15,481 --> 00:11:18,321 Speaker 4: of seven, it doesn't matter whether you're a girl or boy. 200 00:11:18,481 --> 00:11:22,401 Speaker 4: The damage is just it doesn't matter that your gender, 201 00:11:22,441 --> 00:11:26,561 Speaker 4: The damage is just horrific. And I know because I 202 00:11:26,601 --> 00:11:30,481 Speaker 4: have the lived experience, and I call myself a sexpert. 203 00:11:30,561 --> 00:11:33,721 Speaker 4: I've done this, I've had an interest in this, and 204 00:11:33,761 --> 00:11:36,361 Speaker 4: I'm very passionate about it. Since the age of seven. 205 00:11:38,121 --> 00:11:40,721 Speaker 2: I've been calling out for people to come forward with 206 00:11:40,761 --> 00:11:44,361 Speaker 2: these stories since I spoke to Fleur. 207 00:11:44,601 --> 00:11:46,641 Speaker 3: If you remember from another episode. 208 00:11:46,521 --> 00:11:51,881 Speaker 2: I do that, yes, and the stories are strikingly similar. 209 00:11:52,921 --> 00:11:59,561 Speaker 2: Young women, young girls being sexually assaulted, their families, not 210 00:11:59,721 --> 00:12:02,601 Speaker 2: wanting to cause a fuss, not wanting to get the 211 00:12:02,641 --> 00:12:08,681 Speaker 2: police involved, the victims holding off getting any police action 212 00:12:08,881 --> 00:12:14,241 Speaker 2: involved for decades, and then later on going what the hell, 213 00:12:14,601 --> 00:12:17,041 Speaker 2: why have I kept quite all these years? 214 00:12:18,041 --> 00:12:20,601 Speaker 1: And then going to the police. 215 00:12:21,201 --> 00:12:23,481 Speaker 2: For somebody else, to protect somebody else, and particularly when 216 00:12:23,481 --> 00:12:26,241 Speaker 2: it's protecting a mother or a father, or the church 217 00:12:26,321 --> 00:12:29,361 Speaker 2: congregation or the next or neighbors, whoever it is, and 218 00:12:29,961 --> 00:12:35,001 Speaker 2: then trying to get justice, being told that yes, we 219 00:12:35,121 --> 00:12:40,761 Speaker 2: take historical sexual assault cases seriously, but then coming up 220 00:12:40,761 --> 00:12:44,761 Speaker 2: against all kinds of roadblocks and people say, why did 221 00:12:44,841 --> 00:12:45,801 Speaker 2: you wait so long? 222 00:12:46,161 --> 00:12:50,001 Speaker 5: And I think that's the answer, is that this is 223 00:12:50,041 --> 00:12:51,841 Speaker 5: always what's being asked of people, and I think it's 224 00:12:51,841 --> 00:12:56,041 Speaker 5: so frustrating. And you're right, young men, boys have had 225 00:12:56,081 --> 00:12:58,041 Speaker 5: a lot of coverage of this wordas I think it's become. 226 00:12:58,241 --> 00:13:00,121 Speaker 5: I mean, I think if we were at a survey 227 00:13:00,641 --> 00:13:03,321 Speaker 5: of young women, I mean, god knows what the percentage 228 00:13:03,321 --> 00:13:06,281 Speaker 5: would be, but it's very high, particularly of your generation. 229 00:13:06,681 --> 00:13:07,921 Speaker 3: Maybe it's getting better, I don't know. 230 00:13:08,881 --> 00:13:11,321 Speaker 4: As an advocate, I would say it's every second woman, 231 00:13:11,881 --> 00:13:15,241 Speaker 4: because I'm having these conversations on a daily basis, online, 232 00:13:15,321 --> 00:13:18,761 Speaker 4: in person, and I'm really honored to hear the stories 233 00:13:18,881 --> 00:13:21,961 Speaker 4: that I've heard, personal stories of people who've never said anything, 234 00:13:22,561 --> 00:13:24,961 Speaker 4: but they've never had anyone bowl up to them and say, oh, 235 00:13:25,001 --> 00:13:26,881 Speaker 4: I'm a child's six abuse aweness advocate. 236 00:13:26,881 --> 00:13:28,241 Speaker 1: Here's my card and. 237 00:13:28,161 --> 00:13:31,321 Speaker 4: Then again, you know, I'm just full of all this 238 00:13:31,921 --> 00:13:34,561 Speaker 4: trauma and stories to the point, and you would find 239 00:13:34,561 --> 00:13:37,601 Speaker 4: the same that you start to see patterns. You just 240 00:13:37,641 --> 00:13:42,281 Speaker 4: see patterns of behavior, actions, in actions and regarding people 241 00:13:42,361 --> 00:13:44,881 Speaker 4: not reporting or keeping it in the family. I say, 242 00:13:44,961 --> 00:13:48,201 Speaker 4: take the personalities out of it. It's crime because it 243 00:13:48,361 --> 00:13:53,001 Speaker 4: enables this criminal behavior to just continue unchecked, which is 244 00:13:53,001 --> 00:13:56,361 Speaker 4: what happened with Eugene. I know for a fact that 245 00:13:56,401 --> 00:13:58,321 Speaker 4: he had other victims, and he was known on the 246 00:13:58,361 --> 00:14:01,601 Speaker 4: street as a perpetrator. Why would you stop if you 247 00:14:01,601 --> 00:14:04,881 Speaker 4: don't face ramifications from and I mean because he'd been 248 00:14:04,921 --> 00:14:07,601 Speaker 4: in Tarana, I've got no doubt he would have been 249 00:14:07,641 --> 00:14:12,001 Speaker 4: a victim himself. So it's breaking the cycle by speaking 250 00:14:12,121 --> 00:14:14,721 Speaker 4: up about it. But what irks me is that I'm 251 00:14:14,761 --> 00:14:18,401 Speaker 4: mad a pocket. I'm mad a pocket. It's destroyed my marriage. 252 00:14:18,521 --> 00:14:22,681 Speaker 4: I've got no superannuation and somebody needs to step up, 253 00:14:22,721 --> 00:14:24,881 Speaker 4: because if I'm not going to be compensated for the 254 00:14:24,921 --> 00:14:29,001 Speaker 4: wealthy one, why aren't I being compensated for the Aboriginal 255 00:14:29,121 --> 00:14:31,961 Speaker 4: water of the state of the Victorian government, stolen child, 256 00:14:32,721 --> 00:14:36,121 Speaker 4: a person they couldn't control. He was the only one 257 00:14:36,441 --> 00:14:40,441 Speaker 4: that my investigation showed escape from not one but two 258 00:14:40,841 --> 00:14:44,201 Speaker 4: Romand centers in nineteen sixty eight. Why am I having 259 00:14:44,241 --> 00:14:46,761 Speaker 4: to investigate my own case, which is in the end 260 00:14:47,121 --> 00:14:49,961 Speaker 4: pretty much what I've done. What are the police get 261 00:14:50,001 --> 00:14:50,641 Speaker 4: paid for? 262 00:14:51,281 --> 00:14:54,321 Speaker 2: Let's work through what happened in the criminal investigation into 263 00:14:54,321 --> 00:14:54,681 Speaker 2: your case. 264 00:14:54,721 --> 00:14:56,361 Speaker 3: What happened I. 265 00:14:56,401 --> 00:15:00,441 Speaker 4: Reported on the fourteenth of the fifth twenty fourteen, and 266 00:15:00,721 --> 00:15:03,081 Speaker 4: honestly it was the first time in detail that I've 267 00:15:03,121 --> 00:15:06,441 Speaker 4: actually spoken about what happened to me. I've just reiterated 268 00:15:06,481 --> 00:15:10,601 Speaker 4: that I only stated three cases of digital rape, sexual 269 00:15:10,641 --> 00:15:13,881 Speaker 4: abuse by Eugene on the first night, and a gang rate. 270 00:15:14,721 --> 00:15:17,041 Speaker 4: I remember the policeman said to me, you know for 271 00:15:17,081 --> 00:15:19,801 Speaker 4: the gang rap, did they penetrate you? And I grew 272 00:15:19,881 --> 00:15:24,001 Speaker 4: up in this really holy I'm a prude, Adam. I 273 00:15:24,121 --> 00:15:28,361 Speaker 4: was never promiscuous, and I remember just thinking, I'm not 274 00:15:28,401 --> 00:15:29,641 Speaker 4: going to answer that question. 275 00:15:29,761 --> 00:15:31,521 Speaker 1: I was seven, I was a child. 276 00:15:32,161 --> 00:15:34,121 Speaker 4: I'm not going to sit here with a grown adult 277 00:15:34,161 --> 00:15:37,041 Speaker 4: man and answer that question. I just pulled the blind down. 278 00:15:37,441 --> 00:15:40,241 Speaker 4: I didn't answer that question. I just didn't want to 279 00:15:40,281 --> 00:15:43,081 Speaker 4: talk about it. Why would you? At that point, I 280 00:15:43,121 --> 00:15:47,081 Speaker 4: hadn't had any counseling or therapy, so I wasn't practice. 281 00:15:47,161 --> 00:15:49,921 Speaker 4: You get quite emotional, and he said to me, what 282 00:15:50,041 --> 00:15:52,841 Speaker 4: do you hope to achieve? And I couldn't answer him, 283 00:15:52,921 --> 00:15:55,481 Speaker 4: but in my head I just thought, jeez, it'd be 284 00:15:55,521 --> 00:15:59,161 Speaker 4: nice to talk about this without sucking, because I literally 285 00:15:59,281 --> 00:16:03,521 Speaker 4: couldn't have a normal conversation because it was so traumatic. 286 00:16:04,361 --> 00:16:07,161 Speaker 4: I'm kickings, aren't I? Because now I can just talk 287 00:16:07,201 --> 00:16:10,681 Speaker 4: about it. This happened to me. I'm sharing what happened 288 00:16:10,721 --> 00:16:14,041 Speaker 4: to me. All victims, when they speak, will tell you 289 00:16:14,081 --> 00:16:15,841 Speaker 4: the same thing that they don't want it to happen 290 00:16:15,881 --> 00:16:18,521 Speaker 4: to other children. And if their voice and their lived 291 00:16:18,521 --> 00:16:22,721 Speaker 4: experience helps, well, I'm putting it out there because young 292 00:16:22,801 --> 00:16:27,161 Speaker 4: children getting through their childhood safe and sexually safe is 293 00:16:27,161 --> 00:16:31,921 Speaker 4: more important than my little feelings. So yes, the investigation 294 00:16:32,041 --> 00:16:36,441 Speaker 4: went to Perth from the detective in Morabin, and then 295 00:16:36,481 --> 00:16:39,441 Speaker 4: it all just completely went dead and quiet, and I 296 00:16:39,521 --> 00:16:42,801 Speaker 4: was even thinking, you know, dark thoughts, like has this 297 00:16:42,881 --> 00:16:45,961 Speaker 4: wealthy person been able to make this go away? Because 298 00:16:46,921 --> 00:16:50,121 Speaker 4: they're just hot cold with their investigation. One minute it's shut, 299 00:16:50,201 --> 00:16:53,441 Speaker 4: the next minute it's open. Next minute he understands that 300 00:16:53,561 --> 00:16:57,081 Speaker 4: I'm starting to do stuff, and then he reopens the case. 301 00:16:57,841 --> 00:17:00,281 Speaker 4: He took him a year and a half nearly to 302 00:17:00,361 --> 00:17:04,001 Speaker 4: find Eugene. I wasn't active on social media by choice. 303 00:17:04,041 --> 00:17:06,521 Speaker 4: I was a private person, and I got on Facebook 304 00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:08,441 Speaker 4: pretty much found him in ten minutes. 305 00:17:08,481 --> 00:17:08,801 Speaker 1: Adam. 306 00:17:09,681 --> 00:17:13,080 Speaker 4: That just sickened and disgusted me. It was just a 307 00:17:13,201 --> 00:17:17,601 Speaker 4: very clear we're just pretending to investigate, We're not actually 308 00:17:17,721 --> 00:17:18,921 Speaker 4: really going to do anything. 309 00:17:20,120 --> 00:17:22,481 Speaker 2: But so in the end the case goes no further. 310 00:17:22,801 --> 00:17:24,361 Speaker 2: It's sort of closed, is that right? 311 00:17:24,481 --> 00:17:27,120 Speaker 4: No, well, it was closed until he realized that I 312 00:17:27,281 --> 00:17:30,680 Speaker 4: was doing stuff, and then he reopened it and in 313 00:17:30,721 --> 00:17:34,200 Speaker 4: the meantime I had started legal proceedings. So after the 314 00:17:34,281 --> 00:17:38,360 Speaker 4: Royal Commission, one of the recommendations was it's an average 315 00:17:38,360 --> 00:17:40,761 Speaker 4: of thirty three years of children speaking up. 316 00:17:41,441 --> 00:17:42,680 Speaker 1: Mine was a little bit longer. 317 00:17:42,721 --> 00:17:45,400 Speaker 4: I still had young children at home and it impacted 318 00:17:45,481 --> 00:17:49,281 Speaker 4: on my parenting, and it impacted greatly financially because I 319 00:17:49,441 --> 00:17:51,561 Speaker 4: was still at school. I had to sell a unit 320 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:56,360 Speaker 4: to pay my police identified perpetrator and they called it 321 00:17:56,840 --> 00:18:00,920 Speaker 4: my income and I had to pay seventeen thousand dollars 322 00:18:01,521 --> 00:18:05,120 Speaker 4: of what the children had received for schooling, part A 323 00:18:05,241 --> 00:18:09,241 Speaker 4: tax and part B. So the financial bird was immense 324 00:18:09,281 --> 00:18:10,360 Speaker 4: and it still is today. 325 00:18:11,201 --> 00:18:13,921 Speaker 3: You paid that to the perpetrator, yeah, in. 326 00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:14,721 Speaker 1: A personal check. 327 00:18:14,801 --> 00:18:19,201 Speaker 4: So how well I sued him unsuccessfully, so even though 328 00:18:19,241 --> 00:18:22,440 Speaker 4: they'd changed the statue of limitations laws and turns. 329 00:18:22,201 --> 00:18:23,521 Speaker 1: Out I was the test case. 330 00:18:24,201 --> 00:18:26,840 Speaker 4: He appealed and a county court woman judge looked at 331 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:29,720 Speaker 4: it and ruled that we go on to trial. And 332 00:18:29,761 --> 00:18:32,241 Speaker 4: because he had the money, he appealed to the Court 333 00:18:32,281 --> 00:18:35,600 Speaker 4: of Appeals in two parts, one to get it thrown 334 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:38,440 Speaker 4: out and the other one to get his identity hidden. 335 00:18:38,561 --> 00:18:41,760 Speaker 4: And I couldn't afford to fight both and lose both, 336 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:44,440 Speaker 4: so I just fought to get him into court. And 337 00:18:44,481 --> 00:18:47,161 Speaker 4: I had empathy for the fact that they were only fourteen, 338 00:18:47,360 --> 00:18:49,041 Speaker 4: even though I was only seven. 339 00:18:48,801 --> 00:18:49,761 Speaker 1: And there was two of them. 340 00:18:50,321 --> 00:18:54,321 Speaker 4: I wasn't out to crucify or dirty his good name, 341 00:18:54,481 --> 00:18:58,561 Speaker 4: whatever may be. But when the judges ruled in his 342 00:18:58,681 --> 00:19:01,400 Speaker 4: favor that I couldn't sue him, they said it would 343 00:19:01,441 --> 00:19:04,360 Speaker 4: be an abusive power. The real abusive power was two 344 00:19:04,441 --> 00:19:07,960 Speaker 4: fourteen year old with a seven year old and I 345 00:19:08,001 --> 00:19:10,401 Speaker 4: had a bill of one hundred and twenty thousand payable 346 00:19:10,441 --> 00:19:13,961 Speaker 4: to him and his lawyer, who threatened me in person 347 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:17,281 Speaker 4: and online. He hired a law firm to pursue me. 348 00:19:17,360 --> 00:19:19,481 Speaker 4: I just opened up my emails one day and there's 349 00:19:19,481 --> 00:19:22,440 Speaker 4: a bill for one hundred and twenty thousand from this 350 00:19:22,561 --> 00:19:25,041 Speaker 4: other law firm, and I just rang them and said, 351 00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:27,080 Speaker 4: I want to speak to the principal who I got 352 00:19:27,681 --> 00:19:29,561 Speaker 4: and I just said, you've just sent me a bill 353 00:19:29,561 --> 00:19:32,041 Speaker 4: for one hundred and twenty thousand. If you don't know 354 00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:34,640 Speaker 4: what it's for, I suggest you google it and do 355 00:19:34,761 --> 00:19:38,241 Speaker 4: not contact me again. And he didn't. They didn't pretty 356 00:19:38,281 --> 00:19:41,961 Speaker 4: decent of them, really. I just said, cease and desist. 357 00:19:42,481 --> 00:19:46,120 Speaker 4: Even though I'm uneducated, I've seen these things. I've heard 358 00:19:46,120 --> 00:19:47,160 Speaker 4: this terminology. 359 00:19:47,761 --> 00:19:49,680 Speaker 2: So you left school at the age of twelve, Maria 360 00:19:49,761 --> 00:19:51,440 Speaker 2: because of this abuse, didn't you? 361 00:19:51,921 --> 00:19:56,641 Speaker 4: Yeah, twelve midterm And mum had taught hsc VCE when 362 00:19:56,681 --> 00:19:59,321 Speaker 4: she was twenty one. Clearly a woman who believed in 363 00:19:59,441 --> 00:20:03,041 Speaker 4: education for girls who leaves school at twelve, you know. 364 00:20:03,801 --> 00:20:05,640 Speaker 4: And when I went to core for I went and 365 00:20:05,681 --> 00:20:09,680 Speaker 4: worked with racehorses. When I went there, I realize now, 366 00:20:09,761 --> 00:20:12,201 Speaker 4: And not only do I realize now, Adam, but it's 367 00:20:12,281 --> 00:20:17,561 Speaker 4: coming out constantly. I was surrounded by abuse, young people 368 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:22,600 Speaker 4: finding solace and soothing themselves with working with horses. And 369 00:20:22,681 --> 00:20:26,120 Speaker 4: there's been two cases recently from Corfield at that time. 370 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:31,321 Speaker 4: Historic cases just pop up, people that I know. You 371 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:37,880 Speaker 4: get perpetrators, you get victims, and the perpetrators are always bigger, stronger, older, wealthier, 372 00:20:38,921 --> 00:20:40,001 Speaker 4: more powerful, etc. 373 00:20:40,961 --> 00:20:44,281 Speaker 1: That's how it works. But victims are fighting back. 374 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:51,120 Speaker 6: Yeah, yours is a caution retail, Marita, because I've spent 375 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:55,281 Speaker 6: years telling people they should bring these historic sexual assault 376 00:20:55,281 --> 00:20:57,201 Speaker 6: cases to police and to fight them. 377 00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:00,281 Speaker 2: And that's every fiber of my body says justice should 378 00:21:00,281 --> 00:21:04,081 Speaker 2: be done. But when you look at the statistics, it's 379 00:21:04,120 --> 00:21:06,561 Speaker 2: one or two percent of these cases come to a conviction. 380 00:21:07,321 --> 00:21:10,080 Speaker 4: And so you flip that that's a guaranteed ninety nine 381 00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:10,840 Speaker 4: percent fail. 382 00:21:11,801 --> 00:21:14,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, and so you're one of the few that continues 383 00:21:14,721 --> 00:21:18,640 Speaker 2: to fight. You make a civil action which breaks the bank. 384 00:21:19,521 --> 00:21:22,081 Speaker 2: And I mean, would you do anything differently now, I mean, 385 00:21:22,761 --> 00:21:24,241 Speaker 2: is a silly question. 386 00:21:24,321 --> 00:21:26,360 Speaker 4: Yes, I'm glad you asked me that I would have 387 00:21:26,441 --> 00:21:29,481 Speaker 4: hired a private investigator. And that's what I would recommend 388 00:21:29,521 --> 00:21:32,120 Speaker 4: people do. And of course, now we've got the power 389 00:21:32,120 --> 00:21:35,080 Speaker 4: of social media, so I tell people, whether it be 390 00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:38,120 Speaker 4: religion or social media, take the best and leave the rest. 391 00:21:38,241 --> 00:21:41,761 Speaker 4: Because people are very hostile about the damage it does 392 00:21:41,761 --> 00:21:44,400 Speaker 4: to children. But the flip side is it can also 393 00:21:44,441 --> 00:21:48,321 Speaker 4: give victims the voice, and it also is great entrapment 394 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:50,881 Speaker 4: for perpetrators. Like we had a case here in balorat 395 00:21:51,001 --> 00:21:54,761 Speaker 4: high school not long ago where our children went. Lovely man, 396 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:57,840 Speaker 4: lovely teacher and the day the police knocked on his 397 00:21:57,921 --> 00:22:01,920 Speaker 4: door for inappropriate relations with the student, they seized his devices. 398 00:22:01,921 --> 00:22:04,640 Speaker 4: She was all over over. He resigned that day. The 399 00:22:04,721 --> 00:22:07,360 Speaker 4: victim families tied ribbons at the school and the school 400 00:22:07,441 --> 00:22:09,961 Speaker 4: left them there. The school took full ownership. They made 401 00:22:10,001 --> 00:22:13,640 Speaker 4: a statement, I mean, you look at the other Elstenwick case. 402 00:22:14,481 --> 00:22:18,201 Speaker 4: She's facing seventy four charges and the school board helps 403 00:22:18,201 --> 00:22:20,681 Speaker 4: her flee in the middle of the night to protect 404 00:22:20,681 --> 00:22:23,120 Speaker 4: their good name. Well, actually, if you had any brains, 405 00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:25,161 Speaker 4: your good name would be to frog march her down 406 00:22:25,201 --> 00:22:26,001 Speaker 4: and ander over. 407 00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:26,441 Speaker 1: To the police. 408 00:22:27,241 --> 00:22:30,121 Speaker 4: It's ridiculous. And then the law didn't bring her back. 409 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:33,641 Speaker 4: Her victims board her back. They used their civil payouts 410 00:22:33,681 --> 00:22:37,521 Speaker 4: to film her secretly, and the victims do all the 411 00:22:37,561 --> 00:22:40,801 Speaker 4: heavy lifting. That story has just been released on a 412 00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:44,080 Speaker 4: documentary on Netflix. But as a victim, I've had to 413 00:22:44,120 --> 00:22:48,920 Speaker 4: make my own documentaries. Nobody's stepped up. I've had to 414 00:22:48,961 --> 00:22:50,600 Speaker 4: go out on a limb big time. 415 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:53,721 Speaker 3: Well, you're full of dash. 416 00:22:53,761 --> 00:22:56,480 Speaker 2: You made that documentary You be the Judge, which is 417 00:22:56,481 --> 00:23:01,240 Speaker 2: one awards, and it's a stark tilling of this tale. 418 00:23:01,721 --> 00:23:07,440 Speaker 2: And I was particularly interested in your fellow victim advocate, 419 00:23:08,041 --> 00:23:12,321 Speaker 2: Ingrid Irwin, I believe her name is, who said she's 420 00:23:12,360 --> 00:23:16,281 Speaker 2: a lawyer. She's a lawyer, and she said, don't bother 421 00:23:16,360 --> 00:23:20,641 Speaker 2: with the legal route. You're better off looking at counseling route, 422 00:23:20,681 --> 00:23:22,241 Speaker 2: the medical route. 423 00:23:22,521 --> 00:23:23,281 Speaker 3: What do you think of that? 424 00:23:23,360 --> 00:23:23,561 Speaker 2: Now? 425 00:23:24,441 --> 00:23:27,321 Speaker 4: Well, it's really heartbreaking because again I go back to 426 00:23:27,481 --> 00:23:30,241 Speaker 4: if you're reporting and you've got a one percent conviction rate, 427 00:23:30,721 --> 00:23:34,081 Speaker 4: that's a guaranteed ninety nine percent failure rate. And if 428 00:23:34,120 --> 00:23:36,360 Speaker 4: you look at it and do the work, this is 429 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:39,360 Speaker 4: a worldwide You know, you've got Bill Cosby, You've got 430 00:23:39,441 --> 00:23:43,840 Speaker 4: six decades, sixty victims, and I think he's free now. 431 00:23:44,481 --> 00:23:46,721 Speaker 1: Now why is he freeze? Because he's wealthy. 432 00:23:47,120 --> 00:23:51,360 Speaker 4: I mean his enablers were medical practitioners allowing him to 433 00:23:51,441 --> 00:23:54,440 Speaker 4: purchase drugs for his date raping. And you know you 434 00:23:54,481 --> 00:23:56,440 Speaker 4: could be giving them to your daughter, Adam, and she 435 00:23:56,561 --> 00:23:59,041 Speaker 4: might be on medication for epilepsy. 436 00:23:59,801 --> 00:24:00,041 Speaker 1: You know. 437 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:02,840 Speaker 4: Now they're saying, oh, release the list, release the list 438 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:06,281 Speaker 4: for Ebstein and I'm like, dam bat lists. Just lock 439 00:24:06,360 --> 00:24:11,321 Speaker 4: up perpetrators because miners cannot consent. Oh, it's just ridiculous 440 00:24:11,761 --> 00:24:13,360 Speaker 4: when you look at it, you know. And you had 441 00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:16,680 Speaker 4: the premiere at the heart of the Royal Commission saying 442 00:24:17,001 --> 00:24:17,801 Speaker 4: we see. 443 00:24:17,561 --> 00:24:20,241 Speaker 1: You, we hear you, we believe you. How does that help? 444 00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:25,281 Speaker 2: What struck me in your documentary was the extent you 445 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:30,481 Speaker 2: went to to get to the perpetrators you found, Eugene 446 00:24:30,481 --> 00:24:30,801 Speaker 2: love it. 447 00:24:31,321 --> 00:24:32,121 Speaker 3: How did you do that? 448 00:24:32,681 --> 00:24:36,681 Speaker 4: I went on Facebook co covertly, just putting little posts 449 00:24:36,721 --> 00:24:41,441 Speaker 4: up and it happened really quickly. Three women from various 450 00:24:41,481 --> 00:24:42,600 Speaker 4: backgrounds just. 451 00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:44,880 Speaker 1: Got behind me. I didn't know them. 452 00:24:45,521 --> 00:24:48,600 Speaker 4: Somebody local asked me to meet them at the local shop, 453 00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:50,521 Speaker 4: and I didn't know who I was going to meet. 454 00:24:50,561 --> 00:24:54,001 Speaker 4: They had an alias on and I just had put 455 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:57,561 Speaker 4: enough out there for people that she was beautiful. Actually, 456 00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:03,041 Speaker 4: it's been some really wonderful parts, heartwarming that while these 457 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:06,521 Speaker 4: women were on the street in Collingwood discussing what's the 458 00:25:06,561 --> 00:25:08,520 Speaker 4: best thing to do because they knew him as they 459 00:25:08,521 --> 00:25:11,001 Speaker 4: were a little bit frightened of him, he was in 460 00:25:11,041 --> 00:25:14,600 Speaker 4: a mobility scooter and while they were discussing the best way, 461 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:17,961 Speaker 4: and they were liaisoning was someone that knew him who 462 00:25:18,041 --> 00:25:20,440 Speaker 4: was in Werribe, and that person was offering to come. 463 00:25:20,921 --> 00:25:22,680 Speaker 4: In which case we do have to stand in the 464 00:25:22,721 --> 00:25:26,081 Speaker 4: street and wait while this person came. And while they 465 00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:28,200 Speaker 4: were discussing what's the best thing to do, I just 466 00:25:28,241 --> 00:25:30,400 Speaker 4: went to him and he was parked in front of 467 00:25:30,481 --> 00:25:33,160 Speaker 4: a tab and I've got a photo of that, and 468 00:25:33,201 --> 00:25:36,281 Speaker 4: it's just so weird. And he used to follow Gary 469 00:25:36,321 --> 00:25:40,160 Speaker 4: and Sebastian Murphy, so he was pretty excited. 470 00:25:39,681 --> 00:25:40,200 Speaker 1: To meet me. 471 00:25:40,321 --> 00:25:43,400 Speaker 4: But there was a hidden agenda and he came my way. 472 00:25:43,521 --> 00:25:47,360 Speaker 4: He didn't know about the court case. He'd been interviewed 473 00:25:47,360 --> 00:25:51,640 Speaker 4: by the police. And when I said to him, I've 474 00:25:51,761 --> 00:25:54,720 Speaker 4: publicly named you as raping me as a child, and 475 00:25:54,761 --> 00:25:57,801 Speaker 4: it's online and it'll be online forever, he just came 476 00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:01,120 Speaker 4: my way. I just felt he was like butter. He 477 00:26:01,281 --> 00:26:05,201 Speaker 4: was a really smart person. And his former wife had 478 00:26:05,481 --> 00:26:08,600 Speaker 4: lived in a car with her family growing up and 479 00:26:08,681 --> 00:26:13,201 Speaker 4: become Victoria's first registered Indigenous female barrister. 480 00:26:14,281 --> 00:26:16,001 Speaker 1: It's that amazing, it is. 481 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:19,680 Speaker 3: And he freely admitted. He freely admitted his involvement in 482 00:26:19,721 --> 00:26:20,360 Speaker 3: the offenses. 483 00:26:20,561 --> 00:26:22,681 Speaker 1: Yes, and I've been seeking. 484 00:26:22,721 --> 00:26:25,120 Speaker 4: I went and met a lawyer last year in Melbourne 485 00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:27,561 Speaker 4: from a different law firm, and he said, if you 486 00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:31,561 Speaker 4: can get his criminal record and his juvenile delinquent files 487 00:26:31,561 --> 00:26:33,801 Speaker 4: and I look at them, I might be able to 488 00:26:33,801 --> 00:26:38,001 Speaker 4: bring a case on your behalf. So I emailed my 489 00:26:38,201 --> 00:26:43,080 Speaker 4: socket detective that day immediately and straightway he responded and said, no, 490 00:26:43,321 --> 00:26:47,160 Speaker 4: can't help. So I contacted Anthony Carbine, so he's the 491 00:26:47,201 --> 00:26:52,200 Speaker 4: Minister for Police, Crime, Prevention and Racing and his aide 492 00:26:52,721 --> 00:26:55,361 Speaker 4: i'd met who had previously worked at the ballot at 493 00:26:55,360 --> 00:26:57,480 Speaker 4: Turf Club and they've just stonewalled me. 494 00:26:58,441 --> 00:26:59,681 Speaker 1: I've just been down. 495 00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:03,600 Speaker 4: Every rabbit hole, I've chased every and of to date 496 00:27:03,761 --> 00:27:05,480 Speaker 4: nothing I think. 497 00:27:05,321 --> 00:27:08,400 Speaker 2: You've done more than going rabbit holes. You've dug your 498 00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:12,400 Speaker 2: own tunnels. You've done your best. And I wonder why 499 00:27:12,481 --> 00:27:15,200 Speaker 2: why wasn't Eugene then charged. If you've got someone that 500 00:27:15,241 --> 00:27:17,720 Speaker 2: you've got him on tape confessing. 501 00:27:17,721 --> 00:27:21,321 Speaker 1: To so weird, it's so weird. And it was so 502 00:27:21,441 --> 00:27:22,600 Speaker 1: good of him, you know. 503 00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:26,200 Speaker 4: It really warmed my heart and it helped heal the 504 00:27:26,281 --> 00:27:31,001 Speaker 4: private racial vilification that I hid within me, him being 505 00:27:31,041 --> 00:27:34,880 Speaker 4: the first Aboriginal that I'd ever met. I also read 506 00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:39,721 Speaker 4: a book called Jackson's Track, and it allowed me. When 507 00:27:39,721 --> 00:27:42,840 Speaker 4: you're just internalizing everything, you're kind of not healing. So 508 00:27:42,961 --> 00:27:45,481 Speaker 4: in that way, even though I kind of poohood therapy 509 00:27:46,001 --> 00:27:49,120 Speaker 4: and I am in therapy, I went yesterday funded by you, 510 00:27:49,201 --> 00:27:53,481 Speaker 4: the taxpayer, my pleasure, thank you, by the Melbourne Magistrates' 511 00:27:53,521 --> 00:27:56,481 Speaker 4: Court to the tune of over six thousand dollars, which 512 00:27:56,481 --> 00:28:00,081 Speaker 4: I was pretty annoyed because given that my trauma now 513 00:28:00,120 --> 00:28:04,001 Speaker 4: is mostly financial, and I am grateful that they have 514 00:28:04,201 --> 00:28:07,801 Speaker 4: helped definitely. And I mean even if you're just using 515 00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:10,801 Speaker 4: the system as an advocate to know how to help others, 516 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:13,360 Speaker 4: that's useful as well. 517 00:28:14,281 --> 00:28:16,881 Speaker 2: And you say you had rejected the idea of therapy 518 00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:18,961 Speaker 2: before this, why was that? 519 00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:21,720 Speaker 4: Well, I was busy and I couldn't afford it. I 520 00:28:21,801 --> 00:28:25,200 Speaker 4: still had children at home. When all this, you know, 521 00:28:25,241 --> 00:28:27,840 Speaker 4: the body keeps the score and the trauma comes back, 522 00:28:27,921 --> 00:28:31,801 Speaker 4: so as much as people try, often when it comes 523 00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:35,680 Speaker 4: back and it resurfaces, people have a breakdown. So it 524 00:28:35,761 --> 00:28:38,121 Speaker 4: all kind of goes hand in hand if you read 525 00:28:38,161 --> 00:28:41,521 Speaker 4: the stories like Blood on the Rosary is a perfect example, 526 00:28:41,921 --> 00:28:45,881 Speaker 4: which was based at Rupertswood's Alesian College and my brother 527 00:28:45,961 --> 00:28:49,001 Speaker 4: Bernard had been a border there as dad was dying, 528 00:28:49,881 --> 00:28:52,161 Speaker 4: so we all kind of put our heads together and 529 00:28:52,241 --> 00:28:53,601 Speaker 4: wonder if he was abused. 530 00:28:53,601 --> 00:28:54,641 Speaker 1: But he denies it. 531 00:28:54,681 --> 00:29:00,361 Speaker 4: But often people will deny it because you're not trying 532 00:29:00,361 --> 00:29:02,281 Speaker 4: to remember, you're trying to forget. 533 00:29:03,881 --> 00:29:07,761 Speaker 2: In your documentary the Judge, there's sections that you're there 534 00:29:07,761 --> 00:29:12,321 Speaker 2: with your husband and he's explaining the impact it's had 535 00:29:12,361 --> 00:29:14,281 Speaker 2: on him. I think at the time of the documentary 536 00:29:14,281 --> 00:29:16,401 Speaker 2: you were sort of living in the house together, but 537 00:29:16,721 --> 00:29:19,401 Speaker 2: your marriage was effectively over. And he looks like a 538 00:29:19,481 --> 00:29:22,081 Speaker 2: nice guy for all I can see, and it's just 539 00:29:22,121 --> 00:29:24,681 Speaker 2: taken a massive toll on him and you, Yeah, I'm 540 00:29:24,761 --> 00:29:25,521 Speaker 2: very sorry for that. 541 00:29:26,121 --> 00:29:28,361 Speaker 4: Well, I owe him fifty thousand dollars and I won't 542 00:29:28,401 --> 00:29:30,881 Speaker 4: stop until I get it back, and pain like he's 543 00:29:30,921 --> 00:29:36,240 Speaker 4: worked very hard, diligently, well respected for forty years in racing, 544 00:29:36,281 --> 00:29:39,561 Speaker 4: followed by two ambulances getting up at three and four 545 00:29:39,561 --> 00:29:43,121 Speaker 4: in the morning as I have, and that money's not 546 00:29:43,241 --> 00:29:45,161 Speaker 4: easy to come by when you have to work for 547 00:29:45,201 --> 00:29:46,721 Speaker 4: it seven days a week like that. 548 00:29:47,281 --> 00:29:48,921 Speaker 1: So it really irks me. 549 00:29:48,961 --> 00:29:52,681 Speaker 4: And I hope that this guy's family and I've had 550 00:29:52,761 --> 00:29:55,081 Speaker 4: people contact me convertly. 551 00:29:55,481 --> 00:29:56,801 Speaker 1: They're frightened of him. I'm not. 552 00:29:57,761 --> 00:30:00,720 Speaker 4: You know, the truth hurts some people. So if he 553 00:30:00,761 --> 00:30:03,440 Speaker 4: doesn't want to admit it and fix the situation, maybe 554 00:30:03,521 --> 00:30:07,561 Speaker 4: the next generation will say, well, that happened at Grandma's house, 555 00:30:07,641 --> 00:30:10,601 Speaker 4: and obviously the woman's telling the truth, and it's a 556 00:30:10,641 --> 00:30:13,960 Speaker 4: women's rights issue. It's bigger than me. I'm just the 557 00:30:14,041 --> 00:30:17,281 Speaker 4: bunny bringing it forth. What's the point in changing the 558 00:30:17,321 --> 00:30:21,081 Speaker 4: statue of limitations laws for child sexual abuse to then 559 00:30:21,161 --> 00:30:24,041 Speaker 4: say it's too long ago. If I go to court 560 00:30:24,201 --> 00:30:26,801 Speaker 4: and my evidence is given and I've failed due to 561 00:30:26,881 --> 00:30:29,041 Speaker 4: the passage of time, at least you've had a hearing. 562 00:30:29,441 --> 00:30:32,281 Speaker 4: But to have to pay to not be heard, that's 563 00:30:32,281 --> 00:30:34,001 Speaker 4: a gracious courage of justice. 564 00:30:34,001 --> 00:30:36,601 Speaker 2: And as my life, the whole thing is, And you 565 00:30:36,641 --> 00:30:38,921 Speaker 2: can talk about advocating for other people, but it's still 566 00:30:38,961 --> 00:30:42,041 Speaker 2: your life, your situation. And you've in a situation where 567 00:30:42,081 --> 00:30:45,720 Speaker 2: the police investigations effectively ended your loss of civil cases, 568 00:30:45,761 --> 00:30:49,361 Speaker 2: put you well behind the appall financially. What is left 569 00:30:49,361 --> 00:30:52,281 Speaker 2: for you to do to get justice in your case? 570 00:30:53,681 --> 00:30:57,081 Speaker 4: Well, Eugene backed me into the redress scheme and absolutely 571 00:30:57,161 --> 00:31:00,881 Speaker 4: busted my boiler. I got a public petition for that 572 00:31:01,561 --> 00:31:04,561 Speaker 4: and I've probably got nearly twelve thousand signatures, and now 573 00:31:04,601 --> 00:31:08,601 Speaker 4: I had under on a paper copy including eugenes, and 574 00:31:08,721 --> 00:31:12,041 Speaker 4: when submitted it was denied and an appeal was put 575 00:31:12,081 --> 00:31:15,081 Speaker 4: in about a year ago, and I haven't heard anything. 576 00:31:15,481 --> 00:31:17,881 Speaker 4: And the top amount of money you can get you've 577 00:31:17,881 --> 00:31:21,241 Speaker 4: got to have penetration, which I had through digital rape, 578 00:31:21,961 --> 00:31:25,440 Speaker 4: is only one hundred and fifty thousands, and nobody gets that. 579 00:31:25,521 --> 00:31:28,601 Speaker 4: If I got any compensation from that, it stops any 580 00:31:28,641 --> 00:31:31,841 Speaker 4: other legal avenue and it would only be my own 581 00:31:31,881 --> 00:31:35,521 Speaker 4: money back, so there'd be no compensation. It would just 582 00:31:35,601 --> 00:31:38,561 Speaker 4: purely be my own money back for speaking out. So 583 00:31:38,601 --> 00:31:42,121 Speaker 4: it's a smelly, smelly redress scheme. Why do they call 584 00:31:42,161 --> 00:31:46,321 Speaker 4: it a scheme? You know it's just insulting to victims. 585 00:31:46,961 --> 00:31:51,321 Speaker 4: But maybe, you know, if the family feel heat from me, 586 00:31:52,441 --> 00:31:55,481 Speaker 4: maybe someone's somewhere along the line will do the right 587 00:31:55,521 --> 00:31:59,121 Speaker 4: thing and give back my money and maybe even some compensation. 588 00:31:59,321 --> 00:32:01,401 Speaker 4: But at the end of the day, if I can 589 00:32:01,481 --> 00:32:06,841 Speaker 4: live an ease and function, it's only money. I would 590 00:32:06,961 --> 00:32:08,960 Speaker 4: like my money back. I shouldn't be able to pocket 591 00:32:09,001 --> 00:32:14,121 Speaker 4: for merely telling the truth. And if the opp aren't 592 00:32:14,121 --> 00:32:16,441 Speaker 4: going to bring a case on my behalf, and that 593 00:32:16,441 --> 00:32:21,081 Speaker 4: that is beyond reasonable doubt. Well, let me go civil, 594 00:32:21,241 --> 00:32:24,801 Speaker 4: which is in all probability. Nobody. I've been shunned in 595 00:32:24,881 --> 00:32:27,121 Speaker 4: lots of areas, but nobody's called me a liar. 596 00:32:29,081 --> 00:32:30,961 Speaker 2: Yes, I don't think you're going away, Mariata. And I 597 00:32:31,041 --> 00:32:33,161 Speaker 2: really appreciate you telling your story, and I wish I 598 00:32:33,161 --> 00:32:36,321 Speaker 2: could give you more comfort or solution or some advice. 599 00:32:36,441 --> 00:32:40,241 Speaker 2: But you've done everything you possibly can, including the redress scheme. 600 00:32:40,241 --> 00:32:42,721 Speaker 2: I've heard of boys who were in Taranta and was 601 00:32:42,761 --> 00:32:46,841 Speaker 2: simply it he said, versus he said, and they got compensation. 602 00:32:47,921 --> 00:32:50,481 Speaker 2: But you're somehow tonight, even when you've got the perpetrator 603 00:32:50,601 --> 00:32:51,440 Speaker 2: signing your petition. 604 00:32:51,921 --> 00:32:53,841 Speaker 1: What else do you want me to do? 605 00:32:54,041 --> 00:32:55,081 Speaker 3: I have no idea. 606 00:32:55,241 --> 00:32:58,561 Speaker 2: I have no idea him when and Eugene is now deceased. 607 00:32:59,281 --> 00:33:02,481 Speaker 4: Yes, I thought when he passed, I thought, well, he's 608 00:33:02,521 --> 00:33:04,841 Speaker 4: gone to meet his maker with a pretty clear conscience. 609 00:33:05,041 --> 00:33:06,401 Speaker 1: Though it was pretty good of him too. 610 00:33:07,361 --> 00:33:09,961 Speaker 4: He had a young boy, and I'd found the photo 611 00:33:10,041 --> 00:33:11,881 Speaker 4: of him and his son, and I took that and 612 00:33:11,881 --> 00:33:15,001 Speaker 4: put it under his nose, and you could see he 613 00:33:15,041 --> 00:33:17,241 Speaker 4: sort of melted. And I said, you love that little boy, 614 00:33:17,281 --> 00:33:19,161 Speaker 4: don't you, and he said yes, And I showed him 615 00:33:19,201 --> 00:33:21,601 Speaker 4: picture of me with mum and I said, well, my 616 00:33:21,721 --> 00:33:25,241 Speaker 4: mum loved me too, but something awful happened. And as 617 00:33:25,281 --> 00:33:28,681 Speaker 4: a child, and the stress that she had with nursing 618 00:33:28,681 --> 00:33:31,641 Speaker 4: her husband and then him dying and then leaving her 619 00:33:31,681 --> 00:33:35,561 Speaker 4: with children and other stresses like having five boys, getting 620 00:33:35,641 --> 00:33:39,001 Speaker 4: cars and licenses and driving and what have you. 621 00:33:39,681 --> 00:33:41,681 Speaker 1: I watched her as a child. 622 00:33:41,841 --> 00:33:44,521 Speaker 4: She was so upset about what had happened to me 623 00:33:44,641 --> 00:33:47,161 Speaker 4: and that she felt like she hadn't been able to 624 00:33:47,201 --> 00:33:50,841 Speaker 4: protect me, that she had a complete nervous breakdown, Adam, 625 00:33:50,881 --> 00:33:54,681 Speaker 4: and I was the witness to that. No child should 626 00:33:54,721 --> 00:33:55,921 Speaker 4: have to go through that either. 627 00:33:56,721 --> 00:33:58,681 Speaker 3: The trauma goes on and on and on. Thank you 628 00:33:58,721 --> 00:34:00,281 Speaker 3: so much for sharing a story to that, Marita. 629 00:34:00,961 --> 00:34:03,801 Speaker 4: Oh, thank you for amplifying it on my behalf and 630 00:34:05,161 --> 00:34:09,881 Speaker 4: gutting me speaking and naming names and potentially opening myself 631 00:34:09,961 --> 00:34:12,761 Speaker 4: up to litigation while there's another way into court. But 632 00:34:13,361 --> 00:34:15,681 Speaker 4: he said he was innocent in the press. But he 633 00:34:15,881 --> 00:34:19,001 Speaker 4: hasn't countersued me, which that's good because that would have 634 00:34:19,001 --> 00:34:22,841 Speaker 4: been pretty stressful. But I cannot legally threaten him, but 635 00:34:22,881 --> 00:34:25,401 Speaker 4: I can threaten myself if it just gets too hard. 636 00:34:26,001 --> 00:34:27,881 Speaker 4: I think that they should do the right thing and 637 00:34:27,921 --> 00:34:31,001 Speaker 4: try and find a solution which allows me to get 638 00:34:31,001 --> 00:34:34,081 Speaker 4: on with the rest of my life. It's heartbreaking, and 639 00:34:34,321 --> 00:34:37,721 Speaker 4: I imagine if a me and dollar's compensation came into 640 00:34:37,721 --> 00:34:40,441 Speaker 4: the home as opposed to a deficit of one hundred thousand, 641 00:34:41,001 --> 00:34:46,801 Speaker 4: everything would have been hunky dory. 642 00:34:49,401 --> 00:34:53,521 Speaker 2: That's Ruda Murphy as a cautionary tale historical sexual assault 643 00:34:53,721 --> 00:34:57,361 Speaker 2: that goes unpunished. And this really gives me a dilemma 644 00:34:57,401 --> 00:35:02,001 Speaker 2: because I've always advised women police are now listening, go 645 00:35:02,041 --> 00:35:05,961 Speaker 2: and bring your stories to them, seek justice. But Marita's 646 00:35:06,001 --> 00:35:09,521 Speaker 2: story gives me second thoughts, and you should watch her 647 00:35:09,521 --> 00:35:10,881 Speaker 2: documentary on YouTube. 648 00:35:11,041 --> 00:35:12,121 Speaker 3: You be the judge. 649 00:35:12,841 --> 00:35:16,721 Speaker 2: It may well be that you need to consider other avenues. 650 00:35:17,441 --> 00:35:20,881 Speaker 2: Maybe it's counseling, but there are so many more people 651 00:35:20,921 --> 00:35:23,041 Speaker 2: out there, and I think the best thing we can 652 00:35:23,081 --> 00:35:26,001 Speaker 2: do is to have these discussions, and maybe there are 653 00:35:26,081 --> 00:35:28,201 Speaker 2: lawyers out there who can find a way around this 654 00:35:28,681 --> 00:35:33,401 Speaker 2: in the commercial sphere to make these perpetrators pay where 655 00:35:33,441 --> 00:35:35,681 Speaker 2: it hurts from their pocket. If you can't jail them, 656 00:35:35,681 --> 00:35:38,881 Speaker 2: at least take their money and compensate the victims. 657 00:35:39,281 --> 00:35:41,641 Speaker 3: Like Marita Murphy, if. 658 00:35:41,521 --> 00:35:43,961 Speaker 2: You are a victim of this kind of offense or 659 00:35:43,961 --> 00:35:47,081 Speaker 2: any others, do call crime stoppers when they're under triple three, 660 00:35:47,161 --> 00:35:49,361 Speaker 2: triple zero. You don't at the cops, so they're not 661 00:35:49,401 --> 00:35:52,440 Speaker 2: helping you. Send me an email Adam Shanner writer at 662 00:35:52,441 --> 00:35:54,881 Speaker 2: gmail dot com, and I'll do my best to advise you. 663 00:35:55,161 --> 00:35:56,881 Speaker 2: I don't want to give you false hope, but I 664 00:35:56,921 --> 00:35:59,521 Speaker 2: think the first thing is to find your voice and 665 00:35:59,601 --> 00:36:01,960 Speaker 2: tell the story the way Marita has. 666 00:36:02,161 --> 00:36:04,401 Speaker 3: Thank you for listening today. This has been Adam shanned 667 00:36:04,401 --> 00:36:05,000 Speaker 3: for real crime