WEBVTT - BONUS EPISODE: The Missing Campers trial - closings 0:00:01.400 --> 0:00:04.560 I'm Andrew Rule. This is Life and Crimes. I've been 0:00:04.600 --> 0:00:08.719 away for many weeks and I've missed the entire Greg 0:00:08.920 --> 0:00:14.040 Lynn trial, the one and Gatta drama. But luckily I've 0:00:14.040 --> 0:00:16.400 got back and we have here two people in the 0:00:16.440 --> 0:00:20.079 studio who have spent a large part of their recent 0:00:20.160 --> 0:00:25.000 life watching this very diligently. I hope Laura Placella and 0:00:25.120 --> 0:00:28.720 Miles Proost are their names, names that our listeners will 0:00:28.720 --> 0:00:32.360 be familiar with. And what I'm going to do is 0:00:32.440 --> 0:00:36.680 just ask them one then the other and let them 0:00:36.880 --> 0:00:42.120 tell us what has happened. Laura, ladies, first, thank you Andrew. 0:00:42.800 --> 0:00:46.440 Well, we're now in the fifth week of this long trial, 0:00:46.760 --> 0:00:48.599 but the end is near. There's light at the end 0:00:48.640 --> 0:00:51.640 of the tunnel. But to catch you up might just 0:00:51.680 --> 0:00:53.680 provide a bit of a refresher as well for our 0:00:53.720 --> 0:00:57.120 listeners on what has happened over these five weeks. So 0:00:57.160 --> 0:00:59.240 at the start of the trial, the prosecution and the 0:00:59.280 --> 0:01:03.520 defense lay out their arguments to the jury. Put very simply, 0:01:03.560 --> 0:01:07.759 the prosecution allege that mister Lynn murdered Missus Clay and 0:01:07.800 --> 0:01:10.760 mister hill Hip on March twenty during their trip in 0:01:10.760 --> 0:01:14.720 the Wan and Gunner Valley, but the defense definitely dispute this. 0:01:14.920 --> 0:01:18.839 They say that the two deaths were tragic accidents. According 0:01:18.880 --> 0:01:22.200 to mister Lynn, there was a struggle over a shotgun 0:01:22.560 --> 0:01:24.880 and as a result of that struggle between mister Hill 0:01:25.040 --> 0:01:28.680 and mister Lynn, the gun discharged and shot miss Clay 0:01:28.680 --> 0:01:32.240 in the head. And then following that, mister Hill was distraught. 0:01:32.760 --> 0:01:35.720 He came at mister Lynn with a knife, saying she's dead. 0:01:36.319 --> 0:01:39.119 Then the two men struggled over that knife, and as 0:01:39.160 --> 0:01:42.679 a result, mister Lynn says, mister Hill fell on that 0:01:42.760 --> 0:01:43.559 knife and died. 0:01:44.240 --> 0:01:45.320 That's the defense case. 0:01:45.480 --> 0:01:48.360 That's a defense case, and they've said that as a 0:01:48.360 --> 0:01:51.920 result of there being these two dead bodies, Greg Lynn 0:01:52.000 --> 0:01:54.720 has panicked and he's made what they say were a 0:01:54.800 --> 0:01:58.400 series of terrible decisions and have covered up their deaths. 0:01:58.400 --> 0:02:01.240 And we've heard that that included taking some of their 0:02:01.280 --> 0:02:05.320 items from the camp, burning the camp, hiding their bodies, 0:02:05.360 --> 0:02:08.360 and then a few months later returning to burn them. 0:02:08.800 --> 0:02:11.440 So that is the defense case. And they both started 0:02:11.480 --> 0:02:13.960 out with what we call the openings, telling the jury 0:02:14.080 --> 0:02:17.600 roughly how the trial will proceed and what evidence they 0:02:17.600 --> 0:02:20.400 were expected to hear. And then we got into the 0:02:20.480 --> 0:02:22.840 witnesses and I think Marles correct me if I'm wrong. 0:02:22.880 --> 0:02:25.040 We've heard from maybe close to fifty witnesses. 0:02:25.360 --> 0:02:27.880 Yeah, that's right, forty nine witnesses according to the judge, 0:02:27.919 --> 0:02:28.960 over four weeks. 0:02:29.320 --> 0:02:29.519 Yeah. 0:02:29.680 --> 0:02:33.280 And the evidence started out from fellow campers who were 0:02:33.280 --> 0:02:34.720 in the air at the time. I think we had 0:02:34.760 --> 0:02:37.840 some weed sprayers who were working in the valley. We 0:02:37.840 --> 0:02:40.480 also heard from some of the family of mister Hill 0:02:40.520 --> 0:02:43.799 and Missus Clay before we then started to get into 0:02:43.840 --> 0:02:46.080 some of the forensics evidence, which was probably a little 0:02:46.080 --> 0:02:49.200 bit more boring but very important to these sorts of trials. 0:02:49.600 --> 0:02:53.120 We heard from blood splatter experts, people who had expertise 0:02:53.200 --> 0:02:57.919 with insects, a whole range of expertise there. And then 0:02:58.040 --> 0:03:00.760 towards the end of the trial we started getting into 0:03:01.560 --> 0:03:05.959 mister lyne'sccount himself. The jury listened to his whole three 0:03:06.000 --> 0:03:09.119 and a half hour record of interview with police where 0:03:09.120 --> 0:03:11.639 he laid out what he said happened that night in 0:03:11.680 --> 0:03:15.200 the valley. And then finally we actually heard from mister 0:03:15.360 --> 0:03:19.079 Lynn himself, and that's something our listeners haven't heard from yet. 0:03:19.120 --> 0:03:23.880 Mister Lynn took the stand last week and gave his evidence. 0:03:24.080 --> 0:03:27.560 The jury heard from him directly in the witness box, Myles, 0:03:27.560 --> 0:03:29.200 can you tell us what that was like seeing mister 0:03:29.280 --> 0:03:29.880 Lynn stand. 0:03:30.480 --> 0:03:32.399 Well, that was a big day, probably the biggest day 0:03:32.440 --> 0:03:35.640 of the trial so far. It was a sellout crowd 0:03:35.880 --> 0:03:38.320 in the Supreme Court. Up in the public gallery, there 0:03:38.360 --> 0:03:41.280 were dozens of people who was standing room only for 0:03:41.360 --> 0:03:45.280 some downstairs. We had family of mister Hill and missus Clay. 0:03:45.880 --> 0:03:48.600 There was I couldn't even say how many, maybe twenty 0:03:48.720 --> 0:03:52.119 or thirty journalists. It was a full house. So mister 0:03:52.200 --> 0:03:54.760 Lynn was brought up to the stand first thing on 0:03:54.840 --> 0:03:57.800 Thursday morning. He was sworn in and then he's begun 0:03:57.880 --> 0:04:02.119 his evidence with his defense lawyer Dermit Dan questioning him. 0:04:02.440 --> 0:04:05.839 One of the first things mister Dan did was ask 0:04:05.920 --> 0:04:09.080 him about his actions following the pair's deaths, and this 0:04:09.200 --> 0:04:12.680 is about how mister Lynn took their bodies dumped them 0:04:12.720 --> 0:04:15.400 in remote bush land before returning eight months later and 0:04:15.440 --> 0:04:19.200 setting fire to them. Mister Dan said, well, he asked him, 0:04:19.279 --> 0:04:22.119 you know your actions caused a measurable pain to their family, 0:04:22.200 --> 0:04:25.320 loved ones, that people would regard your actions as despicable, 0:04:25.760 --> 0:04:29.040 and his answer was it was despicable. So that was 0:04:29.080 --> 0:04:31.240 a big moment. I was seated in the body of 0:04:31.279 --> 0:04:34.479 the courtroom in an area reserved the media, which is 0:04:34.640 --> 0:04:37.200 just up from where the family of the victims were. 0:04:37.240 --> 0:04:39.159 I did put my head back to see their reaction. 0:04:39.360 --> 0:04:41.440 Nothing jumped out to me, but it was a big 0:04:41.480 --> 0:04:45.320 moment where he did actually directly take responsibility for what 0:04:45.400 --> 0:04:47.880 he's done and you know, call his actions for what 0:04:47.920 --> 0:04:52.160 they were, which was despicable. He actually apologized as well, 0:04:52.200 --> 0:04:54.479 directly to the family that all I can say to 0:04:54.520 --> 0:04:57.360 the families is that I'm very sorry for your suffering 0:04:57.440 --> 0:04:59.880 that I caused. Through his lawyer, he said he'd offered 0:04:59.880 --> 0:05:02.600 to plead guilty to destroying evidence and that he deserved 0:05:02.600 --> 0:05:05.400 to be punished. But he also asked if he killed 0:05:05.400 --> 0:05:07.719 the pay He said, I'm innocent of murder. 0:05:08.279 --> 0:05:10.560 Is this the first time he's ever apologized for what 0:05:10.600 --> 0:05:11.279 happened that night? 0:05:12.360 --> 0:05:14.479 We believe so. There was nothing in the record of 0:05:14.520 --> 0:05:16.080 interview when it was played. There was three and a 0:05:16.120 --> 0:05:19.680 half hours played on Monday and Tuesday, and then we 0:05:19.720 --> 0:05:21.800 had mister Lynna on the stand on Thursday. That was 0:05:21.839 --> 0:05:24.520 between police and mister lynn It wasn't so much talking 0:05:24.560 --> 0:05:26.680 about the families. But now that we're in court and 0:05:26.839 --> 0:05:30.480 there directly, there was a moment of him taking responsibility 0:05:30.520 --> 0:05:31.360 for something he's done. 0:05:31.600 --> 0:05:34.640 Was there anything else interesting that he said on the stand. 0:05:35.920 --> 0:05:38.840 So he was run through his account again, which you've 0:05:38.880 --> 0:05:42.960 spoken about a bit earlier, And during cross examination, mister 0:05:43.040 --> 0:05:47.320 Portudou really grilled him about his story in his account. 0:05:48.040 --> 0:05:51.880 Mister Portchudo, the prosecutor accused mister Lynn of making things up. 0:05:52.560 --> 0:05:55.960 So as we know, mister Lynn claimed they were accidentally killed. 0:05:56.240 --> 0:05:58.200 He's left with this terrible scene and he makes this 0:05:58.240 --> 0:06:02.000 snap decision to conceal the deaths essentially and try and 0:06:02.000 --> 0:06:05.640 make himself disappear. So mister Portudeu ran him through that 0:06:05.680 --> 0:06:08.839 a little bit, and mister Lynn says he panicked, and 0:06:08.880 --> 0:06:11.800 then mister Portugeu says, well, you're in crisis mode as 0:06:11.839 --> 0:06:14.000 you put it. Isn't that something you're trained to deal 0:06:14.040 --> 0:06:18.039 with as a pilot, Yes, he replied. Mister Portugeu asked, 0:06:18.040 --> 0:06:21.080 aren't you trained to become irrational? And mister Lynn said 0:06:21.080 --> 0:06:23.880 he was very stressed right now as in court, and 0:06:23.960 --> 0:06:26.560 he'd also never been faced with two their people before. 0:06:26.640 --> 0:06:29.760 And the prosecutor also asked about why miss de Line 0:06:29.800 --> 0:06:32.560 made the choices he did. For example, mister Line admitted 0:06:32.640 --> 0:06:36.080 when he got home he cleaned the firearm, and Portugeue 0:06:36.080 --> 0:06:38.400 said that would have been the key to his defense, 0:06:38.560 --> 0:06:41.839 and miss Delynn also agreed that leaving the scene as 0:06:41.880 --> 0:06:44.560 it was would have corroborated his story. But we all 0:06:44.560 --> 0:06:46.480 know if his account is true and he left it 0:06:46.520 --> 0:06:48.640 as it was, the police are going to find evidence 0:06:48.839 --> 0:06:51.600 to back up his story. But instead he's destroyed evidence 0:06:51.640 --> 0:06:54.359 and bundle their bodies and take them up into the 0:06:54.360 --> 0:06:55.400 bush and burnt them again. 0:06:55.600 --> 0:06:59.480 Did mister Portugu also question mister Lynn about his actions 0:06:59.520 --> 0:07:02.559 at related to his wife. We understand that he lied 0:07:02.600 --> 0:07:05.680 to her over many months and concealed what he had 0:07:05.720 --> 0:07:08.680 done in the valley in terms of hiding their bodies 0:07:08.720 --> 0:07:10.160 and returning to burn them from her. 0:07:10.440 --> 0:07:13.360 That's right. So mister Portrageu did grill mister Lynn about 0:07:13.360 --> 0:07:15.240 this a bit about whether he spoke to his wife 0:07:15.240 --> 0:07:18.760 about this, and mister Lind said he hadn't. And it 0:07:18.840 --> 0:07:21.520 sort of related to this sixty Minutes episode that aired 0:07:21.600 --> 0:07:24.160 in November twenty twenty one, so this is just before 0:07:24.200 --> 0:07:28.520 mister Lynn was arrested. There was a sixty Minutes episode 0:07:28.600 --> 0:07:31.720 about the missing campus case, and in that episode, a 0:07:31.720 --> 0:07:35.760 police sketch. An image of mister Lynn's forward drive is 0:07:35.800 --> 0:07:39.800 featured on the episode. Mister Lynn's home was under surveillance 0:07:39.840 --> 0:07:42.640 at this point. There was secret listening devices in his home, 0:07:43.440 --> 0:07:47.679 and the jury have been told that mister Lynn's wife 0:07:47.680 --> 0:07:51.760 commented on the program and said that looks like your car, 0:07:52.480 --> 0:07:55.240 and then mister Lynn has then gone and taken the 0:07:55.240 --> 0:08:00.600 awning off his vehicle. A few days after about that 0:08:00.640 --> 0:08:04.400 sort of exchange with his wife, mister Portu said, why 0:08:04.480 --> 0:08:06.760 weren't you just honest with her about what had happened? 0:08:06.800 --> 0:08:08.600 And mister Linn said, the last thing I wanted to 0:08:08.600 --> 0:08:12.000 do was tell other people about it, and telling her 0:08:12.200 --> 0:08:14.320 would involve her in a problem that had nothing to 0:08:14.360 --> 0:08:17.680 do with her. Mister Portugeu then asked, well, you're prepared 0:08:17.680 --> 0:08:20.960 to be deceptive then, and then mister Lynn replied he 0:08:21.160 --> 0:08:23.320 lied to his wife to protect her. 0:08:23.720 --> 0:08:25.480 Was she sitting in the court for his evidence? 0:08:25.800 --> 0:08:26.160 She was. 0:08:26.240 --> 0:08:28.280 I couldn't get a good look of her upstairs in 0:08:28.280 --> 0:08:31.800 the public gallery. They've got a glass panel and anasta, 0:08:31.920 --> 0:08:33.640 so I couldn't actually see her reaction. But she was 0:08:33.720 --> 0:08:35.600 up there, and she has been in there most days. 0:08:35.880 --> 0:08:36.960 What is her demeanor? 0:08:37.320 --> 0:08:39.679 She hasn't given a lot away. She's been in there 0:08:39.720 --> 0:08:42.720 with the couple's son, and I believe the son's partner 0:08:43.520 --> 0:08:46.120 not too much emotion from what I can tell, but 0:08:46.320 --> 0:08:49.760 she has been in there supporting him. If not maybe 0:08:49.760 --> 0:08:51.319 not every day, but most days definitely. 0:08:51.679 --> 0:08:54.280 Myles, what is an awning on top of a full drive? 0:08:54.440 --> 0:08:57.839 So an awning is almost like a roof rack er. 0:08:57.880 --> 0:09:00.160 It's an attachment to the top of your roof. And 0:09:00.240 --> 0:09:03.000 the awning they're talking about is it's almost like a 0:09:03.000 --> 0:09:07.000 camping item and it extends out and turns into a shade. Sale. 0:09:07.240 --> 0:09:10.160 So while it's in its compressed form, it's sort of 0:09:10.160 --> 0:09:12.360 a circular tube. That's right. Then you can pull it 0:09:12.360 --> 0:09:15.360 out like a blind or something. Yeah, so it becomes 0:09:15.480 --> 0:09:17.760 like a little tent, yeah, thing to keep the sun 0:09:17.840 --> 0:09:18.640 off for whatever. Yeah. 0:09:18.679 --> 0:09:21.120 And the reason mister Lane removed this from his vehicles 0:09:21.120 --> 0:09:23.200 because it was shown in this sixty Minutes episode. The 0:09:23.200 --> 0:09:25.840 images they showed you could see had a distinctive awning 0:09:25.840 --> 0:09:27.559 on it, and so just to make his vehicle, he 0:09:27.600 --> 0:09:31.560 admits this, to make it look less like the image 0:09:31.600 --> 0:09:33.040 on sixty Minutes, he took it off. 0:09:33.520 --> 0:09:37.400 Did the case at any stage go into the reasons 0:09:37.480 --> 0:09:41.079 for that Fowar Drive being painted a new color. 0:09:41.800 --> 0:09:45.040 They did during the police interview, they asked him why 0:09:45.040 --> 0:09:48.360 he repainted the car and his answer was, well, the 0:09:48.360 --> 0:09:50.719 first one was obviously the police were after and so 0:09:50.880 --> 0:09:53.720 he was trying to, you know, conceal his involvement. The 0:09:53.760 --> 0:09:55.839 second one was it just needed a new paint. 0:09:55.960 --> 0:09:56.800 It was an old car. 0:09:57.240 --> 0:09:59.240 He reckons it was, you know, the paint was almost 0:09:59.240 --> 0:10:01.480 coming off, and he just looked around the garage and 0:10:01.520 --> 0:10:04.240 found a tin of paint and he just panted his car. 0:10:04.679 --> 0:10:08.079 Miss Dilyn's wife actually took a photo of him repainting 0:10:08.120 --> 0:10:11.280 the car, and police later got ahold of that when 0:10:11.320 --> 0:10:14.560 they seized her phone and downloaded the images off it, 0:10:14.679 --> 0:10:16.839 and we have a copy of that photo is very 0:10:16.920 --> 0:10:19.680 sort of grainy, not high quality, but you can see 0:10:19.679 --> 0:10:22.679 Miss Selina in it with a roller in the middle 0:10:22.679 --> 0:10:24.680 of repainting with a roller, I believe. 0:10:24.720 --> 0:10:24.800 So. 0:10:24.880 --> 0:10:26.920 Do you think it was during lockdown as well? Something 0:10:26.960 --> 0:10:27.679 to pass the time? 0:10:27.880 --> 0:10:29.319 I think it was June four, twenty twenty, so it 0:10:29.320 --> 0:10:30.280 would have been around lockdown. 0:10:30.400 --> 0:10:35.240 Has there been any evidence lead about Gregglynn's early life? 0:10:35.240 --> 0:10:37.600 He's passed that sort of biographical stuff. 0:10:38.160 --> 0:10:40.760 I don't think so, not too much. There's been a 0:10:40.800 --> 0:10:43.800 little bit about him as a pilot, but sort of 0:10:43.960 --> 0:10:45.040 touched upon briefly. 0:10:45.240 --> 0:10:46.719 Oh he heard about the gloves. 0:10:47.480 --> 0:10:50.040 Yeah, the gloves. Yeah, yeah, so he spoke about how 0:10:50.080 --> 0:10:53.040 he had some gloves from Jetstar. He's worked for jets. 0:10:53.320 --> 0:10:54.880 He likes to clean the plane. 0:10:55.400 --> 0:10:57.600 He likes to clean the plane. Yeah, he said, So 0:10:57.679 --> 0:11:00.280 he has these gloves as a Jetstar pilot and he 0:11:00.320 --> 0:11:02.400 has these gloves. And he used to describe how he'd 0:11:02.440 --> 0:11:05.240 always have a pair in his car because he would 0:11:05.240 --> 0:11:09.080 clean the aircraft after it landed. His job usually left 0:11:09.080 --> 0:11:11.320 for the flight attendants, but he said he used to 0:11:11.320 --> 0:11:12.120 help out himself. 0:11:12.480 --> 0:11:14.800 Would that be like the judge sweeping out the court 0:11:14.880 --> 0:11:15.319 each night? 0:11:15.520 --> 0:11:16.520 Pretty similar, I think. 0:11:17.080 --> 0:11:19.960 Would that happen, You'd have to ask the judges. 0:11:20.200 --> 0:11:21.160 I've never seen one do it. 0:11:22.200 --> 0:11:24.800 Well. Your court reporters, Oh yeah, yeah. 0:11:25.040 --> 0:11:27.760 Busy filing, not to not waiting back to see who 0:11:27.840 --> 0:11:28.520 cleans the court room. 0:11:28.600 --> 0:11:31.240 Yeah, usually see the cleaners in the court. They're out 0:11:31.280 --> 0:11:33.959 by eight am. I'm coming into work sometimes and they're leaving, 0:11:34.000 --> 0:11:35.120 so they got there before us. 0:11:35.120 --> 0:11:38.240 It's like editors and newspapers. I've seen them filled rubbishpins. 0:11:38.280 --> 0:11:41.120 I've never seen any of them empty. One is the 0:11:41.160 --> 0:11:45.080 case so far examined that period where Greg Lynn is 0:11:45.160 --> 0:11:49.040 leaving the scene and he comes across a gate across 0:11:49.040 --> 0:11:53.280 his path and he decides in the head of the 0:11:53.320 --> 0:11:55.880 moment or that he has to turn around, which is 0:11:55.920 --> 0:11:58.880 difficult because he had a trailer on and go back 0:11:59.000 --> 0:12:00.960 the other way and read he read the needle and 0:12:01.040 --> 0:12:04.240 go back out past Hatham, which of course ultimately was 0:12:05.120 --> 0:12:09.480 what identified his vehicle. Has that been looked at in depth. 0:12:09.679 --> 0:12:11.480 So one of the first witnesses we had was a 0:12:11.480 --> 0:12:13.800 guy called Tom Matthews. He was another camper in the 0:12:13.800 --> 0:12:17.920 Wanagata Valley at the time the couple disappeared. He spoke 0:12:17.920 --> 0:12:21.200 about it was around about midnight. He hears a forward drive. 0:12:21.240 --> 0:12:24.040 He presumes it's a forward drive. He said it was 0:12:24.040 --> 0:12:26.920 a petrol sounded like an automatic transmission. Was towing a 0:12:26.960 --> 0:12:30.240 trailer and he was camping near the river crossing. So 0:12:30.320 --> 0:12:33.280 this is Wannagata River and it's on the Wanninggata track 0:12:33.320 --> 0:12:35.000 and that's one of the exits out of the valley 0:12:35.080 --> 0:12:37.800 and that was closed off. That was a road closed 0:12:37.880 --> 0:12:40.720 sign and he was woken up now midnight doesn't know 0:12:40.760 --> 0:12:44.040 exactly when, and he heard a car come across that 0:12:44.240 --> 0:12:48.760 exit and have to do a difficult reverse turn. So 0:12:48.840 --> 0:12:52.400 on Tuesday, the prosecution delive their closing remark. This is 0:12:52.480 --> 0:12:54.400 after all the evidence has been heard, and now they're 0:12:54.440 --> 0:12:57.040 kind of summarizing their cases and putting their arguments forward. 0:12:57.160 --> 0:13:00.800 Mister Portrageu down your portrait of the sort of prosecutor. 0:13:00.920 --> 0:13:04.000 He said, mister Lyne's account was complete fiction. He urged 0:13:04.000 --> 0:13:08.360 the jury to reject his fanciful version of events. He said, 0:13:08.360 --> 0:13:11.200 the accused stories indeed a series of very unfortunate events, 0:13:11.320 --> 0:13:13.199 but like the book series of that name, it is 0:13:13.240 --> 0:13:14.000 a complete fiction. 0:13:14.720 --> 0:13:16.640 Do we know what book he's referring to this? 0:13:16.960 --> 0:13:17.480 Do you know this? 0:13:19.040 --> 0:13:20.000 A series of books? 0:13:20.040 --> 0:13:21.480 A series of unfortunate events? 0:13:21.520 --> 0:13:24.559 You know them? Yeah? I get it. 0:13:23.160 --> 0:13:26.040 The author name has escaped me. 0:13:26.800 --> 0:13:29.800 He went through some of the claims mister Lynn had 0:13:29.840 --> 0:13:32.199 and just took the jury one by one, you know, 0:13:32.240 --> 0:13:34.640 almost points of why you know some of his account 0:13:34.679 --> 0:13:38.959 was implausible. For example, he talked about how, according to 0:13:39.000 --> 0:13:42.520 mister Lynn, mister Hill took mister Lynn's shotgun from his 0:13:42.559 --> 0:13:44.040 car and took it back to his camp sign and 0:13:44.040 --> 0:13:47.440 that kind of sparked this confrontation. Well, mister Porcher dou Is, firstly, 0:13:47.480 --> 0:13:50.480 he pointed that out that mister Hill had taken the 0:13:50.520 --> 0:13:55.160 wrong gun. So mister Hill was initially angry with mister 0:13:55.240 --> 0:13:58.400 Lynn because he'd been hunting with a rifle. But when 0:13:58.400 --> 0:14:00.160 he goes and takes the gun, and he takes the 0:14:00.160 --> 0:14:02.600 shotgun instead of the rifle which was left behind. So 0:14:02.679 --> 0:14:05.360 mister Portrague had pointed that out to make that clear. 0:14:05.400 --> 0:14:09.600 On mister Lynn's account, mister Hill has told him, I've 0:14:09.920 --> 0:14:12.360 seen you hunting in the area. I've filmed you on 0:14:12.400 --> 0:14:16.320 my drone. I'm taking that to police because because he 0:14:16.360 --> 0:14:19.000 says mister Lynn had been hunting illegally close to the 0:14:19.040 --> 0:14:21.720 camp site, he's shot through the camp again, this is 0:14:21.760 --> 0:14:25.040 what mister Lynn says. Mister Hill tells him mister Lynn 0:14:25.080 --> 0:14:28.400 had been hunting with his rifle, and so then according 0:14:28.440 --> 0:14:32.400 to his account, mister Hill comes over and takes his 0:14:32.480 --> 0:14:35.920 shotgun and just a sort of continuing on that point again, 0:14:35.960 --> 0:14:39.040 mister Lind's acount is he took the shotgun. He also 0:14:39.040 --> 0:14:41.320 took a box of ammunition, and then as he's walking 0:14:41.320 --> 0:14:44.240 back to his campsite, he's loading the gun. He's loading 0:14:44.240 --> 0:14:47.000 the box of ammunition into the shotgun. This is what 0:14:48.200 --> 0:14:49.920 this is what Lynn says, and he says he actually 0:14:49.920 --> 0:14:52.520 fires it into the air well. Mister portugu said, if 0:14:52.560 --> 0:14:55.560 you're just looking to confiscate the firearm, why would you 0:14:55.640 --> 0:14:56.000 load it. 0:14:56.440 --> 0:14:57.880 And we've got to keep in mind as well that 0:14:58.200 --> 0:15:00.320 we do know that mister Hill says him and Harrol 0:15:00.400 --> 0:15:02.720 were in the area to remember a friend who had 0:15:02.840 --> 0:15:05.600 died in a deer hunting accident. And that is something 0:15:05.600 --> 0:15:07.840 that mister Lynn said, mister Hill made clear to him 0:15:07.840 --> 0:15:10.240 early on when they first met at bucks Camp and 0:15:10.280 --> 0:15:11.320 exchanged pleasantries. 0:15:11.760 --> 0:15:15.480 Yeah, that's right. Mister Lynn had said that mister Hill 0:15:15.520 --> 0:15:16.960 had spoken to him and told him that they were 0:15:16.960 --> 0:15:18.800 in the area because if someone they known either were 0:15:18.840 --> 0:15:20.400 a relative of a friend and they were there to 0:15:20.440 --> 0:15:25.520 remember them. And just continuing on that point with the weapons, 0:15:25.640 --> 0:15:29.479 mister Portugeue said, if mister Hill had taken the shotgun 0:15:29.520 --> 0:15:32.720 but left the rifle and these two groups had been fighting, 0:15:33.360 --> 0:15:36.120 well why would you do that. You're already hostile towards 0:15:36.160 --> 0:15:38.520 one another. Why would you leave one one gun? 0:15:38.640 --> 0:15:39.440 Ya? It's a good question. 0:15:40.400 --> 0:15:43.280 And isn't it the case that both the shotgun and 0:15:43.320 --> 0:15:45.640 the rifle were left in mister Lynn's vehicle with the 0:15:45.680 --> 0:15:48.240 doors wide open because he hadn't safely locked them away. 0:15:48.400 --> 0:15:48.840 That's right. 0:15:49.000 --> 0:15:52.160 So mister Lynn says he left the doors open and 0:15:52.240 --> 0:15:54.960 was playing loud music to get back at mister Hill 0:15:55.080 --> 0:15:59.000 over this dispute about the hunting and the drone footage. 0:15:59.480 --> 0:16:03.360 So that's why they weren't locked up, he says. He says, 0:16:03.560 --> 0:16:07.360 you know that was illegal on his behalf. They should 0:16:07.360 --> 0:16:09.480 have been locked up. I think anyone knows that anyone 0:16:09.720 --> 0:16:12.360 who owns a firearm or or as a hunter would 0:16:12.360 --> 0:16:14.520 know that you can't just leave your guns lying about 0:16:14.600 --> 0:16:18.880 for others to pick up. Mister Dan just began his 0:16:19.040 --> 0:16:21.720 closing remarks at the end of the day and he's 0:16:21.880 --> 0:16:25.400 really having a go at the prosecution. He described how 0:16:25.720 --> 0:16:28.960 there were seventeen low lights of the prosecution case and 0:16:29.000 --> 0:16:31.360 he's been taking the jury through them one by one. 0:16:31.760 --> 0:16:35.880 He said Crown Prosecutor Daniel portradh had acted it disgracefully. 0:16:37.000 --> 0:16:40.680 He said they'd brokenly established court prostigures relating to fairness, 0:16:41.400 --> 0:16:43.680 and he's going to take the jury through more of 0:16:43.720 --> 0:16:47.280 these low lights the following day. I would say he's 0:16:47.280 --> 0:16:49.800 more on the attack than the prosecution is. He's really 0:16:49.800 --> 0:16:52.160 trying to poke holes within the prosecution case. 0:16:52.440 --> 0:16:54.040 And no one's going to sleep. 0:16:54.560 --> 0:16:57.560 No one's going to sleep. No, Okay, it's pretty it 0:16:57.600 --> 0:17:01.520 is entertaining. Everyone's got back straight, Laura, where do. 0:17:01.520 --> 0:17:02.240 We go from here? 0:17:02.840 --> 0:17:07.640 So on Wednesday, mister Dan will finish up his defense closings. 0:17:07.760 --> 0:17:10.280 As we mentioned, he's got those seventeen low lights he 0:17:10.320 --> 0:17:13.560 wants to walk the jury through and once that's complete, 0:17:13.600 --> 0:17:15.760 that's pretty much the end of the trial. So the 0:17:15.840 --> 0:17:18.440 jury would have heard through all forty nine witnesses. They've 0:17:18.440 --> 0:17:21.879 heard both the prosecution and the defense finalize and finish 0:17:21.960 --> 0:17:24.959 their cases, and then the attention turns to the judge, 0:17:25.000 --> 0:17:27.560 who in a couple of days' time will deliver what's 0:17:27.600 --> 0:17:32.480 called his charge. So the charge is almost like the 0:17:32.520 --> 0:17:35.800 instructions that the judge delivers to the jury to help 0:17:35.920 --> 0:17:39.040 them get to their verdict. So there are many rules 0:17:39.080 --> 0:17:41.200 that they need to be aware of. The judge will 0:17:41.240 --> 0:17:44.560 also summarize both the prosecution and the defense case to 0:17:44.600 --> 0:17:46.480 make it clear to the jury what they need to 0:17:46.520 --> 0:17:49.520 keep in mind when they begin their deliberations, and it 0:17:49.560 --> 0:17:52.439 is expected by Friday that the jury will do just that. 0:17:52.800 --> 0:17:56.280 But before that, during our first bonus episode, you may 0:17:56.480 --> 0:17:58.840 have heard us refer to the fact that there were 0:17:58.920 --> 0:18:02.119 fifteen jurors in paneled. So in a case like this 0:18:02.200 --> 0:18:05.000 that is expected to run over four to six weeks, 0:18:05.280 --> 0:18:07.560 they always in panel a few extra durors in case 0:18:07.600 --> 0:18:09.800 anything goes wrong, if anyone gets sick or can no 0:18:09.840 --> 0:18:13.600 longer continue on. There is now fourteen jurors in total, 0:18:13.720 --> 0:18:16.640 but only twelve can deliver a verdict. So what will 0:18:16.680 --> 0:18:20.480 happen before the deliberations is two durors will be balloted off. 0:18:20.680 --> 0:18:24.480 All of their numbers or names will be put into 0:18:24.520 --> 0:18:27.399 a box. Two names will be pulled out, and those 0:18:27.520 --> 0:18:30.440 two names or two numbers, those durors will not continue 0:18:30.480 --> 0:18:32.399 and they will be asked to leave. They are no 0:18:32.480 --> 0:18:35.800 longer required because it's only twelve people that can deliver 0:18:36.240 --> 0:18:40.040 a verdict. So that will happen before the deliberations commence, 0:18:40.480 --> 0:18:43.280 and then it really is a waiting game. We don't 0:18:43.280 --> 0:18:45.919 know how long the jury will take to determine their verdict. 0:18:46.080 --> 0:18:49.040 It could be hours, it could be days, it could 0:18:49.080 --> 0:18:50.080 be weeks, which. 0:18:49.960 --> 0:18:53.280 Leads to my final question. If you had to bet 0:18:53.560 --> 0:18:56.119 on it, do you think the jury will take a 0:18:56.119 --> 0:18:58.720 long time to deliberate or not. 0:19:00.119 --> 0:19:02.680 This has been a long trial. Like I said, we've 0:19:02.720 --> 0:19:05.520 heard from many witnesses. There's been a lot of evidence, 0:19:05.520 --> 0:19:08.359 and I think they will really want to comb through that, 0:19:08.760 --> 0:19:11.600 absorb that, and discuss it. There are some trials that 0:19:11.680 --> 0:19:13.600 run for only a number of days. Some trials can 0:19:13.640 --> 0:19:15.720 be over in a week, and when there's less for 0:19:15.800 --> 0:19:17.920 juries to grapple with, I think it can be easier 0:19:17.960 --> 0:19:20.600 for them to turn around a verdict. But in a 0:19:20.640 --> 0:19:23.280 case as serious as this as well, it's high stakes. 0:19:23.520 --> 0:19:25.399 I think the jury will want to make sure that 0:19:25.480 --> 0:19:28.840 they are discussing every single thing they can and they 0:19:28.880 --> 0:19:31.639