1 00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:04,560 Speaker 1: I'm Andrew Rule. This is Life and Crimes. I've been 2 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:08,719 Speaker 1: away for many weeks and I've missed the entire Greg 3 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:14,040 Speaker 1: Lynn trial, the one and Gatta drama. But luckily I've 4 00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:16,400 Speaker 1: got back and we have here two people in the 5 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:20,079 Speaker 1: studio who have spent a large part of their recent 6 00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:25,000 Speaker 1: life watching this very diligently. I hope Laura Placella and 7 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:28,720 Speaker 1: Miles Proost are their names, names that our listeners will 8 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 1: be familiar with. And what I'm going to do is 9 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:36,680 Speaker 1: just ask them one then the other and let them 10 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:42,120 Speaker 1: tell us what has happened. Laura, ladies, first, thank you Andrew. 11 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:46,440 Speaker 2: Well, we're now in the fifth week of this long trial, 12 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:48,599 Speaker 2: but the end is near. There's light at the end 13 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:51,640 Speaker 2: of the tunnel. But to catch you up might just 14 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:53,680 Speaker 2: provide a bit of a refresher as well for our 15 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:57,120 Speaker 2: listeners on what has happened over these five weeks. So 16 00:00:57,160 --> 00:00:59,240 Speaker 2: at the start of the trial, the prosecution and the 17 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 2: defense lay out their arguments to the jury. Put very simply, 18 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:07,759 Speaker 2: the prosecution allege that mister Lynn murdered Missus Clay and 19 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:10,760 Speaker 2: mister hill Hip on March twenty during their trip in 20 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:14,720 Speaker 2: the Wan and Gunner Valley, but the defense definitely dispute this. 21 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:18,839 Speaker 2: They say that the two deaths were tragic accidents. According 22 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:22,200 Speaker 2: to mister Lynn, there was a struggle over a shotgun 23 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:24,880 Speaker 2: and as a result of that struggle between mister Hill 24 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:28,680 Speaker 2: and mister Lynn, the gun discharged and shot miss Clay 25 00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:32,240 Speaker 2: in the head. And then following that, mister Hill was distraught. 26 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:35,720 Speaker 2: He came at mister Lynn with a knife, saying she's dead. 27 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:39,119 Speaker 2: Then the two men struggled over that knife, and as 28 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:42,679 Speaker 2: a result, mister Lynn says, mister Hill fell on that 29 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:43,559 Speaker 2: knife and died. 30 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:45,320 Speaker 1: That's the defense case. 31 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:48,360 Speaker 2: That's a defense case, and they've said that as a 32 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:51,920 Speaker 2: result of there being these two dead bodies, Greg Lynn 33 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:54,720 Speaker 2: has panicked and he's made what they say were a 34 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:58,400 Speaker 2: series of terrible decisions and have covered up their deaths. 35 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:01,240 Speaker 2: And we've heard that that included taking some of their 36 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 2: items from the camp, burning the camp, hiding their bodies, 37 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:08,360 Speaker 2: and then a few months later returning to burn them. 38 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:11,440 Speaker 2: So that is the defense case. And they both started 39 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:13,960 Speaker 2: out with what we call the openings, telling the jury 40 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 2: roughly how the trial will proceed and what evidence they 41 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:20,400 Speaker 2: were expected to hear. And then we got into the 42 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:22,840 Speaker 2: witnesses and I think Marles correct me if I'm wrong. 43 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:25,040 Speaker 2: We've heard from maybe close to fifty witnesses. 44 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:27,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right, forty nine witnesses according to the judge, 45 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:28,960 Speaker 3: over four weeks. 46 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:29,519 Speaker 1: Yeah. 47 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 2: And the evidence started out from fellow campers who were 48 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:34,720 Speaker 2: in the air at the time. I think we had 49 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 2: some weed sprayers who were working in the valley. We 50 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 2: also heard from some of the family of mister Hill 51 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:43,799 Speaker 2: and Missus Clay before we then started to get into 52 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:46,080 Speaker 2: some of the forensics evidence, which was probably a little 53 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:49,200 Speaker 2: bit more boring but very important to these sorts of trials. 54 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:53,120 Speaker 2: We heard from blood splatter experts, people who had expertise 55 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:57,919 Speaker 2: with insects, a whole range of expertise there. And then 56 00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 2: towards the end of the trial we started getting into 57 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:05,959 Speaker 2: mister lyne'sccount himself. The jury listened to his whole three 58 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:09,119 Speaker 2: and a half hour record of interview with police where 59 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:11,639 Speaker 2: he laid out what he said happened that night in 60 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:15,200 Speaker 2: the valley. And then finally we actually heard from mister 61 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:19,079 Speaker 2: Lynn himself, and that's something our listeners haven't heard from yet. 62 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:23,880 Speaker 2: Mister Lynn took the stand last week and gave his evidence. 63 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 2: The jury heard from him directly in the witness box, Myles, 64 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 2: can you tell us what that was like seeing mister 65 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:29,880 Speaker 2: Lynn stand. 66 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:32,399 Speaker 3: Well, that was a big day, probably the biggest day 67 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 3: of the trial so far. It was a sellout crowd 68 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:38,320 Speaker 3: in the Supreme Court. Up in the public gallery, there 69 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:41,280 Speaker 3: were dozens of people who was standing room only for 70 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:45,280 Speaker 3: some downstairs. We had family of mister Hill and missus Clay. 71 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:48,600 Speaker 3: There was I couldn't even say how many, maybe twenty 72 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:52,119 Speaker 3: or thirty journalists. It was a full house. So mister 73 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:54,760 Speaker 3: Lynn was brought up to the stand first thing on 74 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:57,800 Speaker 3: Thursday morning. He was sworn in and then he's begun 75 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:02,119 Speaker 3: his evidence with his defense lawyer Dermit Dan questioning him. 76 00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:05,839 Speaker 3: One of the first things mister Dan did was ask 77 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:09,080 Speaker 3: him about his actions following the pair's deaths, and this 78 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:12,680 Speaker 3: is about how mister Lynn took their bodies dumped them 79 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:15,400 Speaker 3: in remote bush land before returning eight months later and 80 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:19,200 Speaker 3: setting fire to them. Mister Dan said, well, he asked him, 81 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:22,119 Speaker 3: you know your actions caused a measurable pain to their family, 82 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:25,320 Speaker 3: loved ones, that people would regard your actions as despicable, 83 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:29,040 Speaker 3: and his answer was it was despicable. So that was 84 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:31,240 Speaker 3: a big moment. I was seated in the body of 85 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:34,479 Speaker 3: the courtroom in an area reserved the media, which is 86 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:37,200 Speaker 3: just up from where the family of the victims were. 87 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:39,159 Speaker 3: I did put my head back to see their reaction. 88 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 3: Nothing jumped out to me, but it was a big 89 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 3: moment where he did actually directly take responsibility for what 90 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 3: he's done and you know, call his actions for what 91 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:52,160 Speaker 3: they were, which was despicable. He actually apologized as well, 92 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:54,479 Speaker 3: directly to the family that all I can say to 93 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:57,360 Speaker 3: the families is that I'm very sorry for your suffering 94 00:04:57,440 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 3: that I caused. Through his lawyer, he said he'd offered 95 00:04:59,880 --> 00:05:02,600 Speaker 3: to plead guilty to destroying evidence and that he deserved 96 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:05,400 Speaker 3: to be punished. But he also asked if he killed 97 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:07,719 Speaker 3: the pay He said, I'm innocent of murder. 98 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 2: Is this the first time he's ever apologized for what 99 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:11,279 Speaker 2: happened that night? 100 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:14,479 Speaker 3: We believe so. There was nothing in the record of 101 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:16,080 Speaker 3: interview when it was played. There was three and a 102 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:19,680 Speaker 3: half hours played on Monday and Tuesday, and then we 103 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:21,800 Speaker 3: had mister Lynna on the stand on Thursday. That was 104 00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 3: between police and mister lynn It wasn't so much talking 105 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:26,680 Speaker 3: about the families. But now that we're in court and 106 00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:30,480 Speaker 3: there directly, there was a moment of him taking responsibility 107 00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:31,360 Speaker 3: for something he's done. 108 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:34,640 Speaker 2: Was there anything else interesting that he said on the stand. 109 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:38,840 Speaker 3: So he was run through his account again, which you've 110 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 3: spoken about a bit earlier, And during cross examination, mister 111 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 3: Portudou really grilled him about his story in his account. 112 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:51,880 Speaker 3: Mister Portchudo, the prosecutor accused mister Lynn of making things up. 113 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 3: So as we know, mister Lynn claimed they were accidentally killed. 114 00:05:56,240 --> 00:05:58,200 Speaker 3: He's left with this terrible scene and he makes this 115 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:02,000 Speaker 3: snap decision to conceal the deaths essentially and try and 116 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:05,640 Speaker 3: make himself disappear. So mister Portudeu ran him through that 117 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:08,839 Speaker 3: a little bit, and mister Lynn says he panicked, and 118 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:11,800 Speaker 3: then mister Portugeu says, well, you're in crisis mode as 119 00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:14,000 Speaker 3: you put it. Isn't that something you're trained to deal 120 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:18,039 Speaker 3: with as a pilot, Yes, he replied. Mister Portugeu asked, 121 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:21,080 Speaker 3: aren't you trained to become irrational? And mister Lynn said 122 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:23,880 Speaker 3: he was very stressed right now as in court, and 123 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 3: he'd also never been faced with two their people before. 124 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:29,760 Speaker 3: And the prosecutor also asked about why miss de Line 125 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 3: made the choices he did. For example, mister Line admitted 126 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:36,080 Speaker 3: when he got home he cleaned the firearm, and Portugeue 127 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:38,400 Speaker 3: said that would have been the key to his defense, 128 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:41,839 Speaker 3: and miss Delynn also agreed that leaving the scene as 129 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:44,560 Speaker 3: it was would have corroborated his story. But we all 130 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:46,480 Speaker 3: know if his account is true and he left it 131 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:48,640 Speaker 3: as it was, the police are going to find evidence 132 00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:51,600 Speaker 3: to back up his story. But instead he's destroyed evidence 133 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:54,359 Speaker 3: and bundle their bodies and take them up into the 134 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:55,400 Speaker 3: bush and burnt them again. 135 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:59,480 Speaker 2: Did mister Portugu also question mister Lynn about his actions 136 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:02,559 Speaker 2: at related to his wife. We understand that he lied 137 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:05,680 Speaker 2: to her over many months and concealed what he had 138 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:08,680 Speaker 2: done in the valley in terms of hiding their bodies 139 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:10,160 Speaker 2: and returning to burn them from her. 140 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 3: That's right. So mister Portrageu did grill mister Lynn about 141 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:15,240 Speaker 3: this a bit about whether he spoke to his wife 142 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:18,760 Speaker 3: about this, and mister Lind said he hadn't. And it 143 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 3: sort of related to this sixty Minutes episode that aired 144 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:24,160 Speaker 3: in November twenty twenty one, so this is just before 145 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:28,520 Speaker 3: mister Lynn was arrested. There was a sixty Minutes episode 146 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 3: about the missing campus case, and in that episode, a 147 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:35,760 Speaker 3: police sketch. An image of mister Lynn's forward drive is 148 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 3: featured on the episode. Mister Lynn's home was under surveillance 149 00:07:39,840 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 3: at this point. There was secret listening devices in his home, 150 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:47,679 Speaker 3: and the jury have been told that mister Lynn's wife 151 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 3: commented on the program and said that looks like your car, 152 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:55,240 Speaker 3: and then mister Lynn has then gone and taken the 153 00:07:55,240 --> 00:08:00,600 Speaker 3: awning off his vehicle. A few days after about that 154 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:04,400 Speaker 3: sort of exchange with his wife, mister Portu said, why 155 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:06,760 Speaker 3: weren't you just honest with her about what had happened? 156 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:08,600 Speaker 3: And mister Linn said, the last thing I wanted to 157 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:12,000 Speaker 3: do was tell other people about it, and telling her 158 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:14,320 Speaker 3: would involve her in a problem that had nothing to 159 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:17,680 Speaker 3: do with her. Mister Portugeu then asked, well, you're prepared 160 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:20,960 Speaker 3: to be deceptive then, and then mister Lynn replied he 161 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 3: lied to his wife to protect her. 162 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 2: Was she sitting in the court for his evidence? 163 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:26,160 Speaker 1: She was. 164 00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 3: I couldn't get a good look of her upstairs in 165 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:31,800 Speaker 3: the public gallery. They've got a glass panel and anasta, 166 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:33,640 Speaker 3: so I couldn't actually see her reaction. But she was 167 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:35,600 Speaker 3: up there, and she has been in there most days. 168 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:36,960 Speaker 1: What is her demeanor? 169 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:39,679 Speaker 3: She hasn't given a lot away. She's been in there 170 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:42,720 Speaker 3: with the couple's son, and I believe the son's partner 171 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 3: not too much emotion from what I can tell, but 172 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:49,760 Speaker 3: she has been in there supporting him. If not maybe 173 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:51,319 Speaker 3: not every day, but most days definitely. 174 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:54,280 Speaker 1: Myles, what is an awning on top of a full drive? 175 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:57,839 Speaker 3: So an awning is almost like a roof rack er. 176 00:08:57,880 --> 00:09:00,160 Speaker 3: It's an attachment to the top of your roof. And 177 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:03,000 Speaker 3: the awning they're talking about is it's almost like a 178 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:07,000 Speaker 3: camping item and it extends out and turns into a shade. Sale. 179 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:10,160 Speaker 1: So while it's in its compressed form, it's sort of 180 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:12,360 Speaker 1: a circular tube. That's right. Then you can pull it 181 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:15,360 Speaker 1: out like a blind or something. Yeah, so it becomes 182 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 1: like a little tent, yeah, thing to keep the sun 183 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:18,640 Speaker 1: off for whatever. Yeah. 184 00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:21,120 Speaker 3: And the reason mister Lane removed this from his vehicles 185 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:23,200 Speaker 3: because it was shown in this sixty Minutes episode. The 186 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:25,840 Speaker 3: images they showed you could see had a distinctive awning 187 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:27,559 Speaker 3: on it, and so just to make his vehicle, he 188 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:31,560 Speaker 3: admits this, to make it look less like the image 189 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:33,040 Speaker 3: on sixty Minutes, he took it off. 190 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 1: Did the case at any stage go into the reasons 191 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:41,079 Speaker 1: for that Fowar Drive being painted a new color. 192 00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:45,040 Speaker 3: They did during the police interview, they asked him why 193 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:48,360 Speaker 3: he repainted the car and his answer was, well, the 194 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:50,719 Speaker 3: first one was obviously the police were after and so 195 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:53,720 Speaker 3: he was trying to, you know, conceal his involvement. The 196 00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:55,839 Speaker 3: second one was it just needed a new paint. 197 00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:56,800 Speaker 1: It was an old car. 198 00:09:57,240 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 3: He reckons it was, you know, the paint was almost 199 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:01,480 Speaker 3: coming off, and he just looked around the garage and 200 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:04,240 Speaker 3: found a tin of paint and he just panted his car. 201 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:08,079 Speaker 3: Miss Dilyn's wife actually took a photo of him repainting 202 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:11,280 Speaker 3: the car, and police later got ahold of that when 203 00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:14,560 Speaker 3: they seized her phone and downloaded the images off it, 204 00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:16,839 Speaker 3: and we have a copy of that photo is very 205 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:19,680 Speaker 3: sort of grainy, not high quality, but you can see 206 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:22,679 Speaker 3: Miss Selina in it with a roller in the middle 207 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:24,680 Speaker 3: of repainting with a roller, I believe. 208 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:24,800 Speaker 1: So. 209 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 2: Do you think it was during lockdown as well? Something 210 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:27,679 Speaker 2: to pass the time? 211 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:29,319 Speaker 3: I think it was June four, twenty twenty, so it 212 00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:30,280 Speaker 3: would have been around lockdown. 213 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:35,240 Speaker 1: Has there been any evidence lead about Gregglynn's early life? 214 00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:37,600 Speaker 1: He's passed that sort of biographical stuff. 215 00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:40,760 Speaker 3: I don't think so, not too much. There's been a 216 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 3: little bit about him as a pilot, but sort of 217 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:45,040 Speaker 3: touched upon briefly. 218 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:46,719 Speaker 2: Oh he heard about the gloves. 219 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:50,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, the gloves. Yeah, yeah, so he spoke about how 220 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:53,040 Speaker 3: he had some gloves from Jetstar. He's worked for jets. 221 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:54,880 Speaker 1: He likes to clean the plane. 222 00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:57,600 Speaker 3: He likes to clean the plane. Yeah, he said, So 223 00:10:57,679 --> 00:11:00,280 Speaker 3: he has these gloves as a Jetstar pilot and he 224 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 3: has these gloves. And he used to describe how he'd 225 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 3: always have a pair in his car because he would 226 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:09,080 Speaker 3: clean the aircraft after it landed. His job usually left 227 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:11,320 Speaker 3: for the flight attendants, but he said he used to 228 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:12,120 Speaker 3: help out himself. 229 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:14,800 Speaker 1: Would that be like the judge sweeping out the court 230 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:15,319 Speaker 1: each night? 231 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:16,520 Speaker 3: Pretty similar, I think. 232 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:19,960 Speaker 1: Would that happen, You'd have to ask the judges. 233 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:21,160 Speaker 3: I've never seen one do it. 234 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:24,800 Speaker 1: Well. Your court reporters, Oh yeah, yeah. 235 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:27,760 Speaker 2: Busy filing, not to not waiting back to see who 236 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:28,520 Speaker 2: cleans the court room. 237 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:31,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, usually see the cleaners in the court. They're out 238 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:33,959 Speaker 3: by eight am. I'm coming into work sometimes and they're leaving, 239 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:35,120 Speaker 3: so they got there before us. 240 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:38,240 Speaker 1: It's like editors and newspapers. I've seen them filled rubbishpins. 241 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:41,120 Speaker 1: I've never seen any of them empty. One is the 242 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:45,080 Speaker 1: case so far examined that period where Greg Lynn is 243 00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:49,040 Speaker 1: leaving the scene and he comes across a gate across 244 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:53,280 Speaker 1: his path and he decides in the head of the 245 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:55,880 Speaker 1: moment or that he has to turn around, which is 246 00:11:55,920 --> 00:11:58,880 Speaker 1: difficult because he had a trailer on and go back 247 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:00,960 Speaker 1: the other way and read he read the needle and 248 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 1: go back out past Hatham, which of course ultimately was 249 00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:09,480 Speaker 1: what identified his vehicle. Has that been looked at in depth. 250 00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:11,480 Speaker 3: So one of the first witnesses we had was a 251 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:13,800 Speaker 3: guy called Tom Matthews. He was another camper in the 252 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:17,920 Speaker 3: Wanagata Valley at the time the couple disappeared. He spoke 253 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:21,200 Speaker 3: about it was around about midnight. He hears a forward drive. 254 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:24,040 Speaker 3: He presumes it's a forward drive. He said it was 255 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:26,920 Speaker 3: a petrol sounded like an automatic transmission. Was towing a 256 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:30,240 Speaker 3: trailer and he was camping near the river crossing. So 257 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:33,280 Speaker 3: this is Wannagata River and it's on the Wanninggata track 258 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:35,000 Speaker 3: and that's one of the exits out of the valley 259 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:37,800 Speaker 3: and that was closed off. That was a road closed 260 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:40,720 Speaker 3: sign and he was woken up now midnight doesn't know 261 00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:44,040 Speaker 3: exactly when, and he heard a car come across that 262 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:48,760 Speaker 3: exit and have to do a difficult reverse turn. So 263 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:52,400 Speaker 3: on Tuesday, the prosecution delive their closing remark. This is 264 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:54,400 Speaker 3: after all the evidence has been heard, and now they're 265 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:57,040 Speaker 3: kind of summarizing their cases and putting their arguments forward. 266 00:12:57,160 --> 00:13:00,800 Speaker 3: Mister Portrageu down your portrait of the sort of prosecutor. 267 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:04,000 Speaker 3: He said, mister Lyne's account was complete fiction. He urged 268 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:08,360 Speaker 3: the jury to reject his fanciful version of events. He said, 269 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:11,200 Speaker 3: the accused stories indeed a series of very unfortunate events, 270 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:13,199 Speaker 3: but like the book series of that name, it is 271 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:14,000 Speaker 3: a complete fiction. 272 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:16,640 Speaker 1: Do we know what book he's referring to this? 273 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:17,480 Speaker 3: Do you know this? 274 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 2: A series of books? 275 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:21,480 Speaker 3: A series of unfortunate events? 276 00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:24,559 Speaker 1: You know them? Yeah? I get it. 277 00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:26,040 Speaker 2: The author name has escaped me. 278 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:29,800 Speaker 3: He went through some of the claims mister Lynn had 279 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:32,199 Speaker 3: and just took the jury one by one, you know, 280 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 3: almost points of why you know some of his account 281 00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:38,959 Speaker 3: was implausible. For example, he talked about how, according to 282 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:42,520 Speaker 3: mister Lynn, mister Hill took mister Lynn's shotgun from his 283 00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 3: car and took it back to his camp sign and 284 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:47,440 Speaker 3: that kind of sparked this confrontation. Well, mister Porcher dou Is, firstly, 285 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:50,480 Speaker 3: he pointed that out that mister Hill had taken the 286 00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:55,160 Speaker 3: wrong gun. So mister Hill was initially angry with mister 287 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:58,400 Speaker 3: Lynn because he'd been hunting with a rifle. But when 288 00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:00,160 Speaker 3: he goes and takes the gun, and he takes the 289 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:02,600 Speaker 3: shotgun instead of the rifle which was left behind. So 290 00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:05,360 Speaker 3: mister Portrague had pointed that out to make that clear. 291 00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:09,600 Speaker 3: On mister Lynn's account, mister Hill has told him, I've 292 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:12,360 Speaker 3: seen you hunting in the area. I've filmed you on 293 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:16,320 Speaker 3: my drone. I'm taking that to police because because he 294 00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 3: says mister Lynn had been hunting illegally close to the 295 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:21,720 Speaker 3: camp site, he's shot through the camp again, this is 296 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:25,040 Speaker 3: what mister Lynn says. Mister Hill tells him mister Lynn 297 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:28,400 Speaker 3: had been hunting with his rifle, and so then according 298 00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:32,400 Speaker 3: to his account, mister Hill comes over and takes his 299 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:35,920 Speaker 3: shotgun and just a sort of continuing on that point again, 300 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:39,040 Speaker 3: mister Lind's acount is he took the shotgun. He also 301 00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:41,320 Speaker 3: took a box of ammunition, and then as he's walking 302 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:44,240 Speaker 3: back to his campsite, he's loading the gun. He's loading 303 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:47,000 Speaker 3: the box of ammunition into the shotgun. This is what 304 00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:49,920 Speaker 3: this is what Lynn says, and he says he actually 305 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:52,520 Speaker 3: fires it into the air well. Mister portugu said, if 306 00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:55,560 Speaker 3: you're just looking to confiscate the firearm, why would you 307 00:14:55,640 --> 00:14:56,000 Speaker 3: load it. 308 00:14:56,440 --> 00:14:57,880 Speaker 2: And we've got to keep in mind as well that 309 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:00,320 Speaker 2: we do know that mister Hill says him and Harrol 310 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:02,720 Speaker 2: were in the area to remember a friend who had 311 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:05,600 Speaker 2: died in a deer hunting accident. And that is something 312 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:07,840 Speaker 2: that mister Lynn said, mister Hill made clear to him 313 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:10,240 Speaker 2: early on when they first met at bucks Camp and 314 00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:11,320 Speaker 2: exchanged pleasantries. 315 00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:15,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. Mister Lynn had said that mister Hill 316 00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:16,960 Speaker 3: had spoken to him and told him that they were 317 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:18,800 Speaker 3: in the area because if someone they known either were 318 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:20,400 Speaker 3: a relative of a friend and they were there to 319 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:25,520 Speaker 3: remember them. And just continuing on that point with the weapons, 320 00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:29,479 Speaker 3: mister Portugeue said, if mister Hill had taken the shotgun 321 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:32,720 Speaker 3: but left the rifle and these two groups had been fighting, 322 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:36,120 Speaker 3: well why would you do that. You're already hostile towards 323 00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:38,520 Speaker 3: one another. Why would you leave one one gun? 324 00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:39,440 Speaker 1: Ya? It's a good question. 325 00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:43,280 Speaker 2: And isn't it the case that both the shotgun and 326 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:45,640 Speaker 2: the rifle were left in mister Lynn's vehicle with the 327 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:48,240 Speaker 2: doors wide open because he hadn't safely locked them away. 328 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:48,840 Speaker 1: That's right. 329 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:52,160 Speaker 3: So mister Lynn says he left the doors open and 330 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:54,960 Speaker 3: was playing loud music to get back at mister Hill 331 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 3: over this dispute about the hunting and the drone footage. 332 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:03,360 Speaker 3: So that's why they weren't locked up, he says. He says, 333 00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:07,360 Speaker 3: you know that was illegal on his behalf. They should 334 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:09,480 Speaker 3: have been locked up. I think anyone knows that anyone 335 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:12,360 Speaker 3: who owns a firearm or or as a hunter would 336 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:14,520 Speaker 3: know that you can't just leave your guns lying about 337 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:18,880 Speaker 3: for others to pick up. Mister Dan just began his 338 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:21,720 Speaker 3: closing remarks at the end of the day and he's 339 00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:25,400 Speaker 3: really having a go at the prosecution. He described how 340 00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:28,960 Speaker 3: there were seventeen low lights of the prosecution case and 341 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:31,360 Speaker 3: he's been taking the jury through them one by one. 342 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:35,880 Speaker 3: He said Crown Prosecutor Daniel portradh had acted it disgracefully. 343 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:40,680 Speaker 3: He said they'd brokenly established court prostigures relating to fairness, 344 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:43,680 Speaker 3: and he's going to take the jury through more of 345 00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:47,280 Speaker 3: these low lights the following day. I would say he's 346 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:49,800 Speaker 3: more on the attack than the prosecution is. He's really 347 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:52,160 Speaker 3: trying to poke holes within the prosecution case. 348 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:54,040 Speaker 1: And no one's going to sleep. 349 00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:57,560 Speaker 3: No one's going to sleep. No, Okay, it's pretty it 350 00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:01,520 Speaker 3: is entertaining. Everyone's got back straight, Laura, where do. 351 00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:02,240 Speaker 1: We go from here? 352 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:07,640 Speaker 2: So on Wednesday, mister Dan will finish up his defense closings. 353 00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:10,280 Speaker 2: As we mentioned, he's got those seventeen low lights he 354 00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:13,560 Speaker 2: wants to walk the jury through and once that's complete, 355 00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:15,760 Speaker 2: that's pretty much the end of the trial. So the 356 00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:18,440 Speaker 2: jury would have heard through all forty nine witnesses. They've 357 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:21,879 Speaker 2: heard both the prosecution and the defense finalize and finish 358 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:24,959 Speaker 2: their cases, and then the attention turns to the judge, 359 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:27,560 Speaker 2: who in a couple of days' time will deliver what's 360 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:32,480 Speaker 2: called his charge. So the charge is almost like the 361 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:35,800 Speaker 2: instructions that the judge delivers to the jury to help 362 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:39,040 Speaker 2: them get to their verdict. So there are many rules 363 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:41,200 Speaker 2: that they need to be aware of. The judge will 364 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:44,560 Speaker 2: also summarize both the prosecution and the defense case to 365 00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:46,480 Speaker 2: make it clear to the jury what they need to 366 00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:49,520 Speaker 2: keep in mind when they begin their deliberations, and it 367 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:52,439 Speaker 2: is expected by Friday that the jury will do just that. 368 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:56,280 Speaker 2: But before that, during our first bonus episode, you may 369 00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:58,840 Speaker 2: have heard us refer to the fact that there were 370 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:02,119 Speaker 2: fifteen jurors in paneled. So in a case like this 371 00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:05,000 Speaker 2: that is expected to run over four to six weeks, 372 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:07,560 Speaker 2: they always in panel a few extra durors in case 373 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:09,800 Speaker 2: anything goes wrong, if anyone gets sick or can no 374 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:13,600 Speaker 2: longer continue on. There is now fourteen jurors in total, 375 00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:16,640 Speaker 2: but only twelve can deliver a verdict. So what will 376 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:20,480 Speaker 2: happen before the deliberations is two durors will be balloted off. 377 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:24,480 Speaker 2: All of their numbers or names will be put into 378 00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:27,399 Speaker 2: a box. Two names will be pulled out, and those 379 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:30,440 Speaker 2: two names or two numbers, those durors will not continue 380 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:32,399 Speaker 2: and they will be asked to leave. They are no 381 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:35,800 Speaker 2: longer required because it's only twelve people that can deliver 382 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:40,040 Speaker 2: a verdict. So that will happen before the deliberations commence, 383 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:43,280 Speaker 2: and then it really is a waiting game. We don't 384 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:45,919 Speaker 2: know how long the jury will take to determine their verdict. 385 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:49,040 Speaker 2: It could be hours, it could be days, it could 386 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:50,080 Speaker 2: be weeks, which. 387 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:53,280 Speaker 1: Leads to my final question. If you had to bet 388 00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:56,119 Speaker 1: on it, do you think the jury will take a 389 00:18:56,119 --> 00:18:58,720 Speaker 1: long time to deliberate or not. 390 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:02,680 Speaker 2: This has been a long trial. Like I said, we've 391 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:05,520 Speaker 2: heard from many witnesses. There's been a lot of evidence, 392 00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:08,359 Speaker 2: and I think they will really want to comb through that, 393 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:11,600 Speaker 2: absorb that, and discuss it. There are some trials that 394 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:13,600 Speaker 2: run for only a number of days. Some trials can 395 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:15,720 Speaker 2: be over in a week, and when there's less for 396 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:17,920 Speaker 2: juries to grapple with, I think it can be easier 397 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:20,600 Speaker 2: for them to turn around a verdict. But in a 398 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:23,280 Speaker 2: case as serious as this as well, it's high stakes. 399 00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:25,399 Speaker 2: I think the jury will want to make sure that 400 00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:28,840 Speaker 2: they are discussing every single thing they can and they 401 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:31,639 Speaker 2: are all on the same page when they do decide 402 00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:34,000 Speaker 2: on a verdict. So I do feel like it will 403 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:36,480 Speaker 2: be definitely more than a few hours. So we might 404 00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:39,520 Speaker 2: have a verdict next week, but it much could be 405 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:41,679 Speaker 2: the week after that or the week after that. 406 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:44,000 Speaker 3: What do you think, Miles, I agree, I think it's 407 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:47,800 Speaker 3: going to be long, long deliberations. I think there's an 408 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:51,399 Speaker 3: issue of On the one hand, the prosecution says we 409 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:55,119 Speaker 3: can't say the motive or in the order which they 410 00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:58,720 Speaker 3: were killed. We can't exactly say the circumstances of why 411 00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:02,800 Speaker 3: mister Lynn killed them, but on the defense case he 412 00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:06,439 Speaker 3: also admits taking their bodies and burning them. So weighing 413 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:11,320 Speaker 3: out those two competing things and trying to reach decision, 414 00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:13,800 Speaker 3: I think it's going to be a very difficult task. 415 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:19,159 Speaker 1: I have to agree, not easy. Who would want to 416 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:19,720 Speaker 1: be a durer? 417 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:22,399 Speaker 2: Well that's it from us. It's so great to have 418 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:25,480 Speaker 2: you back, Andrew, and thank you again Miles for joining us. 419 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:29,240 Speaker 2: We'll be back when the verdict is finally handed down, 420 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:32,040 Speaker 2: so stay tuned listeners, but Miles will be in Caught 421 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:35,119 Speaker 2: on Wednesday as mister Dan closes the defense case, so 422 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:37,199 Speaker 2: be sure to check the Herald's on website and the 423 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:38,320 Speaker 2: paper for his update. 424 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:41,240 Speaker 1: Been a pleasure and a privilege to have you here, 425 00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:46,040 Speaker 1: and I look forward to the final chapter of this 426 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:50,240 Speaker 1: absorbing case, which I know I've followed very closely since 427 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:52,560 Speaker 1: it happened because I'm from my skips Land and I 428 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:53,439 Speaker 1: know these parts. 429 00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:57,000 Speaker 3: It's been a marathon, but I'm looking forward to getting towards. 430 00:20:56,760 --> 00:21:00,480 Speaker 1: The finish line. Thanks to you both. Thanks Andrew, thank you, 431 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:06,359 Speaker 1: thanks for listening. Life and Crimes is a Sunday Herald 432 00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:11,360 Speaker 1: Sun production for True Crime Australia. Our producer is Johnty Burton. 433 00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:16,040 Speaker 1: For my columns, features and more, go to Heroldsun dot 434 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:21,639 Speaker 1: com dot au, forward slash Andrew Rule one word. For 435 00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:27,320 Speaker 1: advertising inquiries, go to news podcasts sold at news dot 436 00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:33,000 Speaker 1: com dot au. That is all one word news podcast's sold. 437 00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:37,600 Speaker 1: And if you want further information about this episode, links 438 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:39,320 Speaker 1: are in the description.