Speaker 1: Oh you've done this before. Yeah, all good, okay, thanks you.
Speaker 1: September twenty twenty one, you break the story police close
Speaker 1: in on a new suspect, William Copp's confident they have
Speaker 1: cracked the case. How did that come about?
Speaker 2: So I bump into somebody and I've got to be
Speaker 2: very careful, obviously is the source.
Speaker 1: Mark Murray, or Moz to his friends, is the crime
Speaker 1: editor at Sydney's Daily Telegraph newspaper. Moz is old school.
Speaker 1: You'll often find him on the phone or in the pub,
Speaker 1: usually halfway through telling a long story about Sydney's underworld.
Speaker 1: And he's been working the crime beat in this city
Speaker 1: for as long as I have been alive, and for
Speaker 1: my money, Moz is the best crime reporter in New
Speaker 1: South Wales.
Speaker 2: I'll literally bump into somebody who is not a detective,
Speaker 2: was not even based at Paramount of Police headquarters where
Speaker 2: all the detectives are. I just want to establish that
Speaker 2: this person somehow knew quite a lot about the new
Speaker 2: way the investigation was going in the police. Person in
Speaker 2: the police yes, okay, but not a detective. But anyway,
Speaker 2: somebody in the police force who said, look, this is
Speaker 2: what's happening now. I believe that William went over the balcony,
Speaker 2: that the foster mother was involved, and quite a few
Speaker 2: details full disclosure.
Speaker 1: I like mos He and I go back where colleagues
Speaker 1: and have been rivals, each trying to break bigger stories
Speaker 1: for our different newspapers. And in the past couple of years,
Speaker 1: I've overseen another podcast where Moz is one of the hosts.
Speaker 2: And I'm paranoid. Like everybody, I didn't want to talk
Speaker 2: on the phone this person. I didn't ring police because
Speaker 2: I didn't want anyone having their phone records matched up
Speaker 2: to when this story potentially comes out. So I was
Speaker 2: in here and I I ran to Ben, you know,
Speaker 2: the editor English. Yeah, And I told him this whole
Speaker 2: story is mind blowing. This is probably the biggest mystery
Speaker 2: in Australia currently, the biggest crime story mystery. And here
Speaker 2: we have this massive new information on it. And I said,
Speaker 2: I've got to confirm it, but I've got to be
Speaker 2: careful how I go about it. And he said, okay.
Speaker 2: And I'm still thinking, who the fuck do I ring here?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: One? I don't want somebody shutting me down or but
Speaker 2: I want to make sure I don't stuff up an
Speaker 2: investigation like that is every crime report is primary. You
Speaker 2: don't want to stuff up an investigation because one, you
Speaker 2: don't want to see somebody get away with something. And
Speaker 2: to no one's going to talk to you again.
Speaker 1: And this scoop Mores is describing being it was always
Speaker 1: going to get attention. It's the moment the police went
Speaker 1: public saying they were looking at William Toole's foster mother
Speaker 1: as a suspect. Only the way that happened, at least
Speaker 1: as Mos tells it, this scoop was a stuff up,
Speaker 1: just not his.
Speaker 2: So I was in the office Ben and I and
Speaker 2: he said, oh, maybe i'd make a call or two.
Speaker 2: I go, yeah, right, And he comes out like an
Speaker 2: hour two hours later, he said, I've run that past
Speaker 2: and I don't know who. And he said, we're find
Speaker 2: a runner. I said, you're sure it's not going to
Speaker 2: stuff anybody up. He said, it's it's one hundred percent.
Speaker 1: You're okay.
Speaker 2: And I then made no more calls because I thought
Speaker 2: it was one hundred percent. It was sweet. So I
Speaker 2: wrote the story. Said to Benn, are we going to
Speaker 2: run in a day or two? He said, oh, you
Speaker 2: know what, let's just run up tomorrow and go okay.
Speaker 2: I said, are you sure it's okay? He said, yeah, sure,
Speaker 2: it's sweet. I'm thinking, well, I'm not going to ring
Speaker 2: anyone because I know he says it's fine. So I
Speaker 2: thought all the major players had been notified, right, investigators, everybody.
Speaker 1: But everybody hadn't been notified that MOS's story was coming.
Speaker 1: And that matters because we're talking about a live police
Speaker 1: investigation into a missing child, meaning detectives are still working
Speaker 1: the case. They're talking to witnesses, they're choosing what to
Speaker 1: tell people and what not to tell them, and they
Speaker 1: have covert surveillance running.
Speaker 2: And in the end, we put it up at about
Speaker 2: eight o'clock and so you published it and my phone
Speaker 2: went nuts. And it's a turtle miscommunication somewhere along the
Speaker 2: hierarchy chain.
Speaker 1: So they didn't know the story was coming.
Speaker 2: They didn't know the story.
Speaker 1: So the cops in homicide, particularly running the investigation, the
Speaker 1: investigation didn't know.
Speaker 2: Didn't know. So that would be Dave ladlaw right, who's
Speaker 2: now still in charge. He had no idea. Now I've
Speaker 2: had known him again for years. It just meant that
Speaker 2: everyone in homicide believed I'd broken the golden rule. You know,
Speaker 2: potentially an investigation, that's the golden rule, and that is
Speaker 2: the golden ruar.
Speaker 1: So in this case, the cop running the investigation into
Speaker 1: William's disappearance didn't know that you were going to run this.
Speaker 1: His boss who's the head of homicide didn't know you
Speaker 1: were going to run this. My understanding is the assistant
Speaker 1: commissioner didn't know, and the relevant deputy commissioner didn't know either.
Speaker 2: Yes, subsequently I found that out. Yeah, but sickening feeling.
Speaker 2: It's really because this one that's my lifeblood, is your
Speaker 2: reputation and your contacts, and there was anger, There was
Speaker 2: serious anger.
Speaker 1: So the question is who should be the target of
Speaker 1: that anger. Who's blame for this stuff up that might
Speaker 1: have damaged the William Tyrrell investigation?
Speaker 2: Even to this day, people would like to know the
Speaker 2: initial source.
Speaker 1: But it's not just the initial source, is it. Because
Speaker 1: the initial source with what you do, maybe has a
Speaker 1: casual conversation with you, and that is your job, and
Speaker 1: that's that happens. But there's also the secondary source who
Speaker 1: confirms it to your editor. So there's two sources of
Speaker 1: this league, which the.
Speaker 2: More importantly saying it is Okay.
Speaker 1: The thing about the story was it was pretty strong.
Speaker 1: It wasn't you know. It starts off police zero in
Speaker 1: on a new person of interest, fair enough, who they
Speaker 1: believe is responsible for the death and disappearance of William Tyrell.
Speaker 1: Police are now confident they will solve the mystery of
Speaker 1: the disappearance. A new investigation has uncovered clues previously not explored.
Speaker 1: And although at the start you're talking about a person
Speaker 1: of interest, by midpoint through the article you're calling that
Speaker 1: person a suspect. You're not naming them, but you're saying
Speaker 1: the cops suspect this person is respective.
Speaker 2: Wish we'd actually said that it's on the foster appearance now,
Speaker 2: I think we probably could have gone with it.
Speaker 1: It was pretty obvious who you were talking about. I mean,
Speaker 1: everybody knew. Everybody did know, because as soon as Mozzy's
Speaker 1: article is published, other reporters are calling the police force,
Speaker 1: who do confirm their new suspect is William's foster mother.
Speaker 3: Good afternoon, There have been major developments in the William
Speaker 3: Terrell investigation today, and as we go to wear this afternoon,
Speaker 3: this is what we know. The toddler's foster mother is
Speaker 3: now the key person of interest in his disappearance.
Speaker 1: The key person of interest, despite as we now know
Speaker 1: from the inquest, the police having no forensic or witness
Speaker 1: evidence to support that. And all of this attention also
Speaker 1: explode what had actually been a careful, gradual strategy to
Speaker 1: apply pressure to William's foster mother through other leaks to
Speaker 1: the media and select interviews with chosen reporters.
Speaker 4: So if anyone out there is thinking I might have
Speaker 4: gotten away with this, what's your message?
Speaker 1: They haven't like this Sky News interview with David Laidlaw,
Speaker 1: the new lead detective.
Speaker 2: You know what happened, don't you? You know who it is.
Speaker 2: We have thoughts about what occurred to William, Yes, and
Speaker 2: who was responsible?
Speaker 1: Yes. The police strategy was to slowly ratchet up the
Speaker 1: pressure while all the time the foster parents' house and
Speaker 1: car and telephones are being recorded with covert surveillance. It's
Speaker 1: exactly the same kind of tactics that led to the
Speaker 1: downfall of the previous lead detective, Gary Jubilin. But Moz's
Speaker 1: front page story blows up without warning, right in the
Speaker 1: middle of this careful strategy.
Speaker 2: I was told, in no uncertain terms, an explosion has
Speaker 2: gone on. There is which hunts, there is anger, and
Speaker 2: I can understand because this is a huge case. They're
Speaker 2: trying to solve the case of a missing boy at
Speaker 2: a little child, and no matter what we say, and
Speaker 2: how no matter what they say, and that every case
Speaker 2: is equal, every murder is equal, every it isn't emotion
Speaker 2: gets you know, there's a little child, you know, And
Speaker 2: so to have their strategy stuffed up innocently bye whoever,
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I take issue with that because, yeah, you may have
Speaker 1: stuffed up their strategy innocently, because you, as a journalist,
Speaker 1: to writing what you've been told and what you've been
Speaker 1: told by someone in the police is good to go. Yeah,
Speaker 1: But that person who your editor, Ben English spoke to.
Speaker 2: He's SARTI spoken in more than one and I might
Speaker 2: have been, and I've got to be you know, he
Speaker 2: has he has sources that still amaze me.
Speaker 1: Right, But that person who to have known that must
Speaker 1: almost certainly have been in the police themselves and confirmed
Speaker 1: it to Ben and said, yeah, you can go with that.
Speaker 1: That person is not acting innocently.
Speaker 2: No, And I want yeah, I can't answer that because
Speaker 2: I don't know the person.
Speaker 1: I spoke to Mozzy's editor, Ben English, and he's not
Speaker 1: going to reveal his source, and I wouldn't expect him to.
Speaker 1: But it's not really about Ben. It's about those people
Speaker 1: caught up in the fallout.
Speaker 2: And I've currently found out it didn't stuff up any investigation.
Speaker 2: In fact, there was a media strategy almost in place
Speaker 2: to use the telegraph exactly the way we did it,
Speaker 2: except for it didn't match their timetable.
Speaker 1: There is one other aspect to this in terms of
Speaker 1: the fall out is that William's biological foster parents weren't
Speaker 1: told this story was coming before it came, and there's
Speaker 1: an element of emotional damage done by.
Speaker 2: That, yeah, which again I didn't know. Well, I'd imagine
Speaker 2: the foster parents who were target of the investigation. I thought,
Speaker 2: when you're given the good to go, I would have
Speaker 2: thought that there was something in place, and I think
Speaker 2: that there still would have been saw something in their
Speaker 2: house no matter what there were you. Yeah, so that
Speaker 2: wouldn't have bagged that part up. The emotional to the
Speaker 2: biological painchere. I can see where you're coming from, and
Speaker 2: that's something I think we hadn't probably explored enough.
Speaker 1: But I don't think it's on you. Moss says it's
Speaker 1: taken him years to repair his reputation and his relationship
Speaker 1: with some of the detectives in the homicide squad. So
Speaker 1: he's another person who suffered at least a little in
Speaker 1: the fallout from the way police have handled the William
Speaker 1: Tyran investigation. And talking to Moz, I'm starting to think
Speaker 1: how this is only the latest in a history of
Speaker 1: leaks from the police force in this case, going right
Speaker 1: back to the first raids on Bill Spedding, to Bill's arrest,
Speaker 1: the details of what he was wrongly charged with, the
Speaker 1: existence of other potential suspect that was leaked, as was
Speaker 1: Gary Jubilin being taken off the investigation. And then there's
Speaker 1: this leak about the police suddenly suspecting William's foster mother,
Speaker 1: which will in turn be followed by another leak. Good evening.
Speaker 5: We begin tonight with breaking news on one of Australia's
Speaker 5: most baffling cases.
Speaker 1: This time revealing that police have sent a brief of
Speaker 1: evidence to the States Director of Public Prosecutions.
Speaker 5: Nine News can reveal detectives now believe there's enough evidence
Speaker 5: to charge the toddler's foster mother over his disappearance.
Speaker 1: This news breaking in June last year, a day after
Speaker 1: what would have been William's twelfth birthday.
Speaker 2: Talking about leaks, that's the one that's caused more consternation
Speaker 2: than anyone. That they had handed a brief to the DPP.
Speaker 2: Now that was even a bigger leak because I think
Speaker 2: only seven people knew, and I know there was an
Speaker 2: internal investigation over there. So I think the reporter involved
Speaker 2: in that, she's been sent to Coventry. I know it
Speaker 2: actually feels because they're furious about that.
Speaker 1: And if the police are furious, it's because these leaks
Speaker 1: keep threatening to damage the investigation into who took three
Speaker 1: year old William Tyrell, who kind of gets forgotten in
Speaker 1: the storm of headlines and the internal politics in which
Speaker 1: this whole case has played out over the past decade.
Speaker 2: I think Tyrrell has no boundaries. It's a national It's
Speaker 2: like one of those stories that captures the whole nation.
Speaker 2: It just doesn't. It's not just a Sydney or Telegraph story,
Speaker 2: don't you think. And certain reporters have become obsessed, haven't they.
Speaker 1: I'm not innocent within this. I'm a reporter. I like leaks,
Speaker 1: like being leaked to, But standing back, I can see
Speaker 1: how innocent lives get caught up in the explosion when
Speaker 1: these bombs go off on the front pages, or because
Speaker 1: someone couldn't keep their mouth shut on a phone call
Speaker 1: with a reporter or an editor. And I can see
Speaker 1: how these leaks also feed the damage and suspicion surrounding
Speaker 1: this investigation, as have other leaks which are more illicit
Speaker 1: and more damaging and where the police are not the
Speaker 1: only guilty party. From news dot com dot Au. This
Speaker 1: is Witness William Tyrol episode ten. The suspect.
Speaker 6: Had a higher Yeah great, oh thanks you interested?
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 1: This is a woman called Alana Smith speaking to another
Speaker 1: colleague of mine, the journalist Caroline Overington, in twenty twenty one,
Speaker 1: the same year MOS broke that story about police now
Speaker 1: looking at William's foster mother.
Speaker 8: All right, let's go it comes true.
Speaker 1: Alana has some skin in the game here. She once
Speaker 1: went to court arguing for the right to publicly identify
Speaker 1: William Tyrol as a foster child when the government was
Speaker 1: refusing to let that happen, which is partly why Caroline
Speaker 1: wanted to talk to her.
Speaker 9: It's just audio, it's a podcast, is just boys, boys.
Speaker 1: That's not what interested me though, listening to this recording,
Speaker 1: I'm interested in one particular moment.
Speaker 8: We don't need to clear everything off, but do you
Speaker 8: want to just move that computer?
Speaker 1: Which happens while they're still setting up the interview, and
Speaker 1: we might need this cheering.
Speaker 6: Here's some stuff on news from the proof perfect, thank you.
Speaker 1: But Alana says there's some stuff on here from the
Speaker 1: brief and hands it over. The brief is the brief
Speaker 1: of evidence, meaning all of the evidence the police have
Speaker 1: gathered in this case for the inquest into William's disappearance,
Speaker 1: and which somehow leaked, got into the papers and ended
Speaker 1: up circling around the internet. And that matters because this
Speaker 1: is evidence from a police investigation which today is still ongoing,
Speaker 1: and these leaked documents include police statements and transcripts of
Speaker 1: interviews with witnesses, including William's foster parents, and their phone
Speaker 1: records and photographs marked protected and confidential, all of which,
Speaker 1: if it becomes public, can only undermine the police and
Speaker 1: the inquest and their chances of bringing to justice whoever
Speaker 1: it was who took William. And Alana must know she's
Speaker 1: not supposed to just hand this stuff over listen again.
Speaker 10: There's some stuff on these from the proof perfect.
Speaker 8: Thank you, but.
Speaker 1: There, she says, but you don't know I have that.
Speaker 1: Alana has her own take on William's disappearance. She's gone
Speaker 1: online herself a lot, calling William's foster parents quote dirty
Speaker 1: fucking parasites, and calling Gary Jubilin a corrupt, fucking motherfucker
Speaker 1: and worse. I shouldn't need to say this, but there's
Speaker 1: no evidence to back up her insults, and I'm only
Speaker 1: mentioning them to demonstrate just how dirty and polluted everything
Speaker 1: surrounding this case has got. So I called Alana, but
Speaker 1: she didn't answer. Then she called me back, Hallo, Hello Dan,
Speaker 1: Hi Alana, how are you doing? Yes?
Speaker 10: Good, thank you. I just want to let you know
Speaker 10: that I'm recording the conversation.
Speaker 1: That's fine, you are happy if I record it as well.
Speaker 1: Of course, Alana has written things about me online also.
Speaker 1: Since starting this series, we've exchanged messages on Facebook in
Speaker 1: which she's called me assy but definitely not classy. She's
Speaker 1: called me a weak ass journo and that it's about
Speaker 1: time I was brought into line.
Speaker 10: This will be a one way conversation, but I'm all used, Dan.
Speaker 1: When you say one way conversation, how do you.
Speaker 10: Mean, Well, it'll be you talking because I truly have nothing,
Speaker 10: honestly nothing to say to you. I've articulated my thoughts
Speaker 10: and my feelings about what you and your current colleagues
Speaker 10: are doing and how you are stewing, and I don't
Speaker 10: give a fuck.
Speaker 1: In Alana says, I'm skewing the facts.
Speaker 10: The facts between within that brief of evidence.
Speaker 6: Because there is nothing that I have further need to
Speaker 6: say to you.
Speaker 10: There isn't already abundantly clear within the documents.
Speaker 11: Sure you're getting cliques, Sure you're getting paid, Sure you're hanging.
Speaker 10: Out with the fucking bee boys, but your morals and.
Speaker 7: Your ethics are in the fucking gutta and shame on you,
Speaker 7: Dan Box.
Speaker 1: Basically, Alana doesn't like the way we've made this podcast.
Speaker 10: What is it that you fucking want from me? Apart
Speaker 10: from the truth.
Speaker 3: And I'm giving it to you.
Speaker 6: I'd have you and Gary Jubilin in a quarter of
Speaker 6: law in a fucking heartbeat.
Speaker 1: She says, we're pursuing a narrative one that she does
Speaker 1: not agree with.
Speaker 11: Shame on you because you use every god.
Speaker 7: Damn day and get out of bed and put your
Speaker 7: fucking fancy pants on and continue to go down this
Speaker 7: contractual sheep fuckery. And there's only one person to blame
Speaker 7: apart from yourself. You you, you, yourself.
Speaker 6: And yourself.
Speaker 10: Can have nothing to say.
Speaker 11: And the people that I'm going to say it to.
Speaker 2: I said it online.
Speaker 9: Actually I said shit about you on an open from
Speaker 9: I went and said that.
Speaker 6: Listen.
Speaker 7: I hope we're recorded.
Speaker 8: I truly hope we're recorded.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we are. Yeah you said you said you're recording,
Speaker 1: and I am as well.
Speaker 10: And I'll be a push for.
Speaker 9: A fucking gondab inquiry one way or another, come hell
Speaker 9: or high water.
Speaker 1: Can I ask you a couple of things nation trial alone?
Speaker 1: Can I ask you something?
Speaker 7: Well, whether you can ask or I'll allow you to
Speaker 7: ask me, whether I.
Speaker 1: Yeah you one hundred percent, You don't have to answer.
Speaker 1: I just need to ask. There's a couple of things
Speaker 1: I'm interested in. You talked about putting things, putting things online.
Speaker 1: You've you've obviously said a lot about William's foster parents.
Speaker 1: You've said their murderers, you've said their pedophiles, and so on.
Speaker 7: Yeh, sure we got taken a call over and got fucking.
Speaker 10: Tried about it.
Speaker 7: You know, I'll bean yeah, and we'll go.
Speaker 6: Again, because fucking we'll go again.
Speaker 9: If that's getting into court, pushing the boundaries is the
Speaker 9: only fucking what.
Speaker 1: You don't have any evidence of that.
Speaker 7: How you got the fucking files? How I got the
Speaker 7: fucking files.
Speaker 1: That's actually my second question. That's the second thing I'm
Speaker 1: interested in. You have shared documents from the brief of
Speaker 1: evidence with journalists.
Speaker 8: So what you're talking about.
Speaker 1: I've got you on tape doing it, Alana, sure.
Speaker 11: Sure, And if I have, then if I have, then
Speaker 11: it's been in private.
Speaker 10: And that's what journalists do.
Speaker 1: But why have you shared documents from the kid? But
Speaker 1: why did you share documents from the brief of evidence
Speaker 1: in a live homicide and investigation?
Speaker 7: The same reason I started a petition, the same reason
Speaker 7: I told a Supreme Court judge to go fuck himself,
Speaker 7: The same reason I continue to argue the point to
Speaker 7: you in every other journo, the same reason why I
Speaker 7: continue to tell you that you're a lie life scumbag
Speaker 7: on a moral principle, because there's a fucking child missing
Speaker 7: in state care.
Speaker 1: So you shared those you shared those police documents because.
Speaker 11: I don't give a shit.
Speaker 10: You want to get litigious.
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm definitely not threatening. I'm just trying to understand.
Speaker 11: Quite okay for you to do that.
Speaker 1: I definitely I'm not threatening. I've got no interest in
Speaker 1: legal action. But I am trying to understand why you
Speaker 1: would share documents, Why you'd share police documents from a
Speaker 1: live homicide investigation and other reporters.
Speaker 6: Why do you receive other people's brief of evidence documents
Speaker 6: in your own in blok?
Speaker 7: Then before you ask the questions of me, how about.
Speaker 6: You make sure that your own fucking bed, you're an
Speaker 6: in box, your own nurse is clean.
Speaker 1: Sent me documents, But there's a difference between receiving them
Speaker 1: and sharing them. And I'm just curious as to you.
Speaker 9: And will argue that point out like I did in
Speaker 9: a criminal trial or any other trial.
Speaker 1: There's no criminal trial because I don't even know if
Speaker 1: there's a criminal offense, but I am interested in why
Speaker 1: you didn't.
Speaker 6: I'm baiting.
Speaker 10: It's baiting. This has gone along enough.
Speaker 11: This is stupid, absolutely stupid, one way or another, regardless
Speaker 11: what I said, regardless of who is guilty, what you're doing,
Speaker 11: and the narrative in.
Speaker 10: Which you're running is filthy.
Speaker 8: That's it.
Speaker 7: You want to get higher.
Speaker 10: You want to understand why I've done certain things.
Speaker 8: I've just given you.
Speaker 7: I've just list.
Speaker 10: You asked me a question, and I've given you.
Speaker 9: An honest, tenant, ten point answer as to why I
Speaker 9: do the things that.
Speaker 1: I do it because you think it's in them Do
Speaker 1: you think it's in the public interest?
Speaker 7: Not for a dirty pay packet, Not for a dirty old.
Speaker 10: Fucking paypacket there not to sell my soul, not to.
Speaker 6: Get a fucking leg up in the media, fucking not
Speaker 6: to not to get on jump onto the biggest fucking
Speaker 6: case there is, to making the air for yourself in
Speaker 6: your new job. I do everything that I do authentically
Speaker 6: from my fucking heart because of those children.
Speaker 1: Have you thought about the possible damage you might do
Speaker 1: to the investigation by sharing those documents?
Speaker 6: The investigation knows who I am, they know where I lived.
Speaker 8: There's been nothing come at me.
Speaker 9: What were the facts?
Speaker 8: What were the context?
Speaker 1: What was what?
Speaker 7: Letst put it in context?
Speaker 1: So is that why you shared them alone? So what
Speaker 1: is that why you shared them so people will understand
Speaker 1: the fact.
Speaker 6: Probably not even about that, It's about the child.
Speaker 1: By child Alana means, I think it's about William.
Speaker 9: How many times have I said it's about the child and.
Speaker 6: About child, about child, about child, about child, about child,
Speaker 6: about child.
Speaker 1: Why do you care so much about William?
Speaker 6: Because I do because of what's happening to him, the
Speaker 6: way in which it's happened, the ass covering that the
Speaker 6: government do, the gas lighting that they do, the way
Speaker 6: that the media in which cover it or don't cover it,
Speaker 6: the way in which the government and the Parliament use
Speaker 6: and abuse legislation to protect their own fucking goddamn mars.
Speaker 6: There's a whole myriad of reasons why I want to
Speaker 6: be invested or why I am, apart from the fact
Speaker 6: that I too was a little William at one stage
Speaker 6: and fucking forcibly removed from my mother.
Speaker 1: Like William, Alana was taken from her birth family and
Speaker 1: put into foster care. Her experience of that was awful,
Speaker 1: and I don't pretend to understand what she's been through.
Speaker 1: But she and I are going to have to agree
Speaker 1: to disagree on other things.
Speaker 6: I do later at nights sometimes and I think to myself,
Speaker 6: Dan is an unredeemable, fucking low life prick. But I
Speaker 6: still don't understand why he's chosen the road that he has.
Speaker 1: So are you asking me why we're doing what we're doing.
Speaker 6: Why are you doing what you're doing with the narrative
Speaker 6: in which you're doing it, Dan.
Speaker 1: Look, the only narrative we're trying to tell is to
Speaker 1: look at the investigation from the beginning and what was
Speaker 1: done right and what was done wrong. That's been our
Speaker 1: starting point.
Speaker 9: There needs to be an inquiry. What do you think
Speaker 9: about an inquiry?
Speaker 8: Do on record?
Speaker 1: I'd love to see a public inquiry into this one
Speaker 1: because it's not really my job. My job is to
Speaker 1: report the facts and not to call for things.
Speaker 10: Why aren't you pushing an advocating for one?
Speaker 1: Because I'm not an advocate. I'm a journalist and my
Speaker 1: job is to port the facts as best we can.
Speaker 1: It's not my job to You haven't been doing that,
Speaker 1: you know, I promise you. We've been trying to listening back.
Speaker 1: I think that's a weak answer, So Alana, if you're listening,
Speaker 1: I would love to see a public inquiry into the
Speaker 1: William Tyran investigation. And ten years on with no answers
Speaker 1: about what happened to him, I think there should be
Speaker 1: an inquiry, and I know from speaking to them for
Speaker 1: this podcast that Bill Spedding and Gary Jubilin they both
Speaker 1: think the same. There's one last thing I asked, Alana,
Speaker 1: where did you get the brief of evidence? From? Alane?
Speaker 6: Listen, I've been a part.
Speaker 9: I've been an advocate for the Biological Family for the alas.
Speaker 1: I was told you. I was told you got them
Speaker 1: from the biological family.
Speaker 9: Listen, I've done at all. Where did I get the
Speaker 9: brief of evidence? Where do I get any court documents?
Speaker 9: Where do I get any family information?
Speaker 1: So you got it from the biological family? Are you?
Speaker 11: How dare you?
Speaker 9: Because I worked as an advocate for that fucking family
Speaker 9: and I continue to do that.
Speaker 1: Look, it's no criticism, it's I'm curious. So you got
Speaker 1: it from the Biological Family.
Speaker 10: I'm saying I did.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying I'm told I was told you did.
Speaker 10: Sup questions because you saynd stupid.
Speaker 12: Is there anything else you wanted to say to me?
Speaker 6: What you fucking apart from all the fucks in and
Speaker 6: that you shoot fuckery and that that you're morally along
Speaker 6: with what you're doing now?
Speaker 1: No, I I got all of that. Yeah, I got
Speaker 1: it But there is a problem here because I spoke
Speaker 1: to Natalie Collins, William's biological grandmother, who denies giving Alana
Speaker 1: the brief of evidence and says Alana is no longer
Speaker 1: acting as an advocate for her family, and said some
Speaker 1: other things about Alana and about William's foster parents, which
Speaker 1: I'm not going to repeat here because they're offensive and
Speaker 1: there's no evidence to support them, just like the things
Speaker 1: Alana's been saying online about William's foster parents. Their insults
Speaker 1: and they're not true. But now there are all these
Speaker 1: different voices, William's birth and foster families, the police, people
Speaker 1: who say they are advocates for something, those posting lies
Speaker 1: and abuse online, and reporters and editors who are all
Speaker 1: talking and sharing confidential information, getting louder and nastier in
Speaker 1: what they're saying to each other and online. Even before
Speaker 1: that front page story about William's foster mother, she and
Speaker 1: her husband had become targets.
Speaker 8: Cold, cold people. They are, how do they sleep at night?
Speaker 8: William has been murdered, cocaine addict.
Speaker 2: I'm interested in seeing him and handcuffs.
Speaker 1: William Tyrrell was tortured, raped and murdered.
Speaker 11: Motley crew of pitophile mates, pitophile rapist.
Speaker 6: Doc William has been murdered by his narcissistic psychopath foster
Speaker 6: mother and the corps, then dismembered and courted for disposal
Speaker 6: by the besotted foster famer.
Speaker 1: These are lies, they're false, but they still added to
Speaker 1: the pressure on the couple, who, throughout the time they
Speaker 1: were under police investigation, were also managing the fallout of
Speaker 1: William's disappearance on another child who was living with them
Speaker 1: and who we can't identify for legal reasons. William's foster
Speaker 1: parents were also providing emergency and respite care for other
Speaker 1: children at the request of the state government's Department of
Speaker 1: Community and Justice. A court will later hear from one
Speaker 1: of the department staff saying William's foster parents were often
Speaker 1: called upon to help out when the department was in
Speaker 1: a jam, and the corporate view of the department was
Speaker 1: that they were very responsible and trustworthy parents. But these
Speaker 1: kids aren't always easy to look after, taken from their
Speaker 1: birth families by the state, often dealing with their own trauma,
Speaker 1: so that's pressure. At around the same time, the COVID
Speaker 1: pandemic shut Australia's borders and sent Sydney into lockdown. So
Speaker 1: that's pressure. Then in December twenty twenty, Williams foster nana died.
Speaker 1: William's foster parents suspected a cop who turned up at
Speaker 1: the funeral was wearing a wire, and they're not wrong
Speaker 1: about being under surveillance. The police put five listening devices
Speaker 1: and two cameras in place in the foster parents' home,
Speaker 1: plus intercepts on their mobile phones, and these run for
Speaker 1: nearly a full year, meaning in total something over sixty
Speaker 1: thousand hours of surveillance, from which the cops gather over
Speaker 1: one thousand hours of recordings. Among them, the police record
Speaker 1: William's foster parents arranging for someone to place dummy bids
Speaker 1: when they sell their homer auction, which frankly is stupid
Speaker 1: and greedy and illegal, but it happens, and the cops
Speaker 1: will charge them with dishonestly obtain financial advantage or cause
Speaker 1: disadvantage by deception, which carries a maximum ten year prison sentence.
Speaker 1: So that's pressure. Only the cops later withdraw this and
Speaker 1: the couple plead guilty to a lesser charge and a
Speaker 1: fined three thousand dollars.
Speaker 7: It must feel like the police are hounding you.
Speaker 8: You're not going to make any comments. Thank you. Did
Speaker 8: you have anything to do with William's disappearance. I'm not
Speaker 8: going to make any comments, thank you.
Speaker 1: Listening to vices also record arguments between William's foster parents
Speaker 1: and the child, a teenager. I can't play those recordings
Speaker 1: for legal reasons because the police charged William's foster parents
Speaker 1: over these recordings.
Speaker 2: Also, are you disgusted at hearing how you spoke to
Speaker 2: that little girl?
Speaker 1: Do you see how bad a look this is given
Speaker 1: your a person of interest in William's disappearance. I've sat
Speaker 1: in court listening to these recordings more than once, and
Speaker 1: their unpleasant listening. In the worst, you hear disembodied voices.
Speaker 1: It takes a while to work out it's a child.
Speaker 1: The child shouts no, go away, go away. There is
Speaker 1: a long, indistinct drawn out crying. William's foster mother says,
Speaker 1: get up, stand up, stand up. Then she asks the
Speaker 1: child where did you put the wooden spoon. The child
Speaker 1: says it's behind there. No, please, no, The foster mother says,
Speaker 1: move your hand. There's the sound of an impact. She says, sit.
Speaker 1: You can hear the child crying. It sounds bad, and
Speaker 1: it is bad. In court on either side, I can
Speaker 1: sense the other journalists feel revolted, and I do too.
Speaker 1: But it also sounds like a family that's not working,
Speaker 1: where people are breaking under pressure. Also listening in the
Speaker 1: courtroom is the former lead detective Gary Jublin. And during
Speaker 1: a break here and I go outside and we talk
Speaker 1: about what we just heard. What did you make of that?
Speaker 13: The two recordings that were applied.
Speaker 1: I did know this.
Speaker 13: You listen to that recording that's confronting, there's a child screaming,
Speaker 13: But it was a child screaming. It wasn't There was
Speaker 13: no it wasn't someone that had lost their temper. It
Speaker 13: wasn't the adult screaming irrationally. It was a child screaming.
Speaker 1: Now, yeah, but a child could be screaming because you're
Speaker 1: really hurting that child.
Speaker 13: That didn't sound like that.
Speaker 1: I we listened to that twice. The first time I
Speaker 1: listened to that, and I thought, that sounds really bad.
Speaker 1: That sounds like a child in absolute distress.
Speaker 13: I thought it was very interesting, and we only bearing
Speaker 13: your mind. We heard a very small snippet, which is
Speaker 13: obviously what the prosecution want as the worst snippet.
Speaker 1: I'm going to call the police.
Speaker 13: That was a child that was contained, not a child
Speaker 13: that was in pain or injured. Then it just escalated,
Speaker 13: but the child escalated it.
Speaker 1: We might have to agree to disagree on that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I heard a parent going off with their child and
Speaker 1: a child at a distress, screaming and screaming. But if
Speaker 1: you recorded, I don't actually for very comfortable sites. But
Speaker 1: if you recorded some of the of the worst conversations
Speaker 1: I've had with my kids, they might not have sounded much.
Speaker 13: I would say the same thing then, And I raised
Speaker 13: my children in a house and no violence or threats
Speaker 13: or whatsoever.
Speaker 1: The police charge William's foster mother with assault, and she
Speaker 1: pleads guilty. She also pleads guilty to a second assault
Speaker 1: charge over a kick on the same child, which happens
Speaker 1: during another argument where the child was going to kick
Speaker 1: another much younger child who the family were looking after.
Speaker 1: The foster mother kicks the older child to stop her,
Speaker 1: then says, now you know how it feels. Do you
Speaker 1: think you want to make that decision again? The older
Speaker 1: child cries, and later on a telephone intercept, the foster
Speaker 1: mother tells a friend, I'm ashamed. I can't believe it happened,
Speaker 1: but I lost it. In another phone call the same day,
Speaker 1: she says, I'm not used to being like this. I'm
Speaker 1: not coping. The problem is we've got this investigation hanging
Speaker 1: over our heads. The police believe we did something to William.
Speaker 1: How do I live with that? How do I live
Speaker 1: being looked at? When the foster of the checks the
Speaker 1: elder child later, the kick doesn't leave a mark, But
Speaker 1: all the time the cops are listening. One court will
Speaker 1: later hear the detectives knew about this first assault with
Speaker 1: the spoon as early as the next day because they're listening.
Speaker 1: But they don't remove the child. In fact, they leave
Speaker 1: that child living with William's foster parents for almost a
Speaker 1: full year after And you have to ask, if the
Speaker 1: police really believe the child is in danger, why wait
Speaker 1: so long? And there are other recordings for which the
Speaker 1: detectives investigating William's disappearance will charge the foster parents with intimidation,
Speaker 1: but where the magistrate hearing the case will say she's
Speaker 1: listened to the entire recordings and will say those parts
Speaker 1: that were played in court have not been put into
Speaker 1: their proper context by the prosecution, and that the transcript
Speaker 1: of the recordings provided by the prosecution doesn't always match
Speaker 1: the words that she heard on the recordings, and she'll
Speaker 1: say it can hardly be said the alleged intimidation was continuous,
Speaker 1: and that, having listened repeatedly to the whole of the recordings,
Speaker 1: she views the child's call for help as calls for
Speaker 1: help with cleaning her room, a frustrated young girl at
Speaker 1: the end of her tether. And the magistrate will say
Speaker 1: the recordings aren't nice, but they don't go far enough
Speaker 1: to demonstrate criminal intent to intimidate. And it's also true
Speaker 1: that in court we hear only minutes or at most,
Speaker 1: I think a couple of hours of the thousand or
Speaker 1: more hours the police recorded. But outside one of the
Speaker 1: court hearings, the police prosecutor will come out and he'll
Speaker 1: walk over and start talking to the reporters who are
Speaker 1: sitting about to file their stories, and the reporters will
Speaker 1: say the tapes sound awful, and the prosecutor will say,
Speaker 1: how he has kids, and the first time he listened
Speaker 1: to them, he was chain smoking and drinking wine. And
Speaker 1: he'll say, there's a damn sight more that I can't
Speaker 1: share with you, and he'll say it would have been
Speaker 1: easier for him to close the court so the hearing
Speaker 1: took place in private, but that it's in the interests
Speaker 1: of justice for people to hear this, And every day
Speaker 1: the detectives investigating William's disappearance will be in the court room,
Speaker 1: despite the fact that these offenses have nothing to do
Speaker 1: with what happened to William and took place years after
Speaker 1: he disappeared. And at one point the police prosecutor will
Speaker 1: say in court that this case isn't about William Tyrrell.
Speaker 1: But if it's not, and it's only about a kick
Speaker 1: on a different child, then why is the strike Force here?
Speaker 1: And later that same police prosecutor will turn up at
Speaker 1: the inquest hearing into William's disappearance, sitting with the detectives
Speaker 1: and talking to the police lawyers because really, these other
Speaker 1: charges have everything to do with the investigation into William's disappearance.
Speaker 1: One of the strike Force detectives, Andrew Lonegan, will later
Speaker 1: say this in court, saying he thinks they quote go
Speaker 1: to the character of propensity of violence to children. But
Speaker 1: most of the charges the police bring against William's parents
Speaker 1: end with not guilty verdicts. And the couple are now
Speaker 1: appealing others.
Speaker 14: A major blow for police, a major victory for their
Speaker 14: latest target, William Tyrrell's foster mother leaving court and overwhelmed
Speaker 14: after the magistrate let her.
Speaker 1: Off not guilty. Isn't really a major victory?
Speaker 7: How has the pressure been these past few years?
Speaker 1: The pressure continues. The detectives visit the foster mother's family
Speaker 1: and friends, asking questions had they ever seen her angry
Speaker 1: as a parent? Ever seen her lose control? The police
Speaker 1: investigation morphs into a joint investigation with something called the
Speaker 1: New South Wales Crime Commission, which was set up to prevent,
Speaker 1: disrupt and reduce the incidents of organized and other serious crime.
Speaker 1: The Crime Commission works in secret. You actually can't tell
Speaker 1: anybody you've been called there to give evidence, and it
Speaker 1: has unrival powers. It can force people to give evidence,
Speaker 1: make them answer questions. In October twenty twenty one, two
Speaker 1: of the detectives visit William's foster mother at home to
Speaker 1: give her an order that she's to face questions at
Speaker 1: the Crime Commission. A court will later hear how one
Speaker 1: of those two men, who's a short, red faced detective
Speaker 1: called Andrew lonegan tells William's foster mother it's not personal
Speaker 1: and we're not here to fucking bluff. The other detective,
Speaker 1: who is a big, swaggering man called Scott Jamison, tells her,
Speaker 1: you'll have to live with it. We aren't guessing. We
Speaker 1: know why, we know how, we know where he is.
Speaker 1: William's foster mother says, I'm actually trying. I'm trying to breathe.
Speaker 1: You're actually now saying I tried to hurt William. Andrew
Speaker 1: Lonegan says, we're not saying you hurt him. Scott Jamieson
Speaker 1: says again, we're saying we know why it happened, we
Speaker 1: know how it happened, and we know where he is.
Speaker 1: But we know from the inquest that the police don't
Speaker 1: know those things. They have no forensic or witness evidence
Speaker 1: of what happened to William. Andrew Lonegan will later say
Speaker 1: in court that he was telling the truth during this exchange.
Speaker 1: Inside the crime Commission, William's foster mother is questioned over
Speaker 1: two days. She's asked over and over and over did
Speaker 1: she have anything to do with William's disappearance, and over
Speaker 1: and over she says no, while William's foster mother is
Speaker 1: giving this evidence. The child, who's been living with her
Speaker 1: and her husband, is at school. A detective from the
Speaker 1: Strikeforce arrives without warning. The child doesn't know why the
Speaker 1: detective is there. She thinks maybe it's to do with William.
Speaker 1: The detective takes the child from class for an interview,
Speaker 1: asking her seven hundred and fifty one questions, which a
Speaker 1: magistrate will later describe as being of a patently leading nature,
Speaker 1: such as, has William's foster father ever hurt you? Has
Speaker 1: anyone ever put you in time out? Has he ever
Speaker 1: grabbed your neck when you tried to get out of
Speaker 1: time out? When was that? She says, she doesn't know
Speaker 1: that child will never go home to William's foster parents.
Speaker 1: The next day, she'll call a family friend and leave
Speaker 1: this message, which we've asked someone else to read out, And.
Speaker 4: That's alle else's house, a foster home, and I want
Speaker 4: to go to your house.
Speaker 2: And of this one.
Speaker 1: I've seen emails from detectives on the Strikeforce to state
Speaker 1: government officials saying they don't want this child to have
Speaker 1: any contact with William's foster family or friends. The police
Speaker 1: also take out an apprehended violence order preventing contact even
Speaker 1: phone calls. It's not certain if their Christmas presents are
Speaker 1: passed on to her. And it's been years now, during
Speaker 1: which time this child must have gone online and seen
Speaker 1: what people have written about William's foster parents. I've got
Speaker 1: a daughter around the same age. I look at her
Speaker 1: and I can't imagine what being treated like this would
Speaker 1: do to her. So when I look at all the
Speaker 1: people who've been caught up in the investigation into William's disappearance,
Speaker 1: this child is the first person I think of, and
Speaker 1: I find myself actually hoping the police are right about
Speaker 1: what happened to William, because at least then what's happened
Speaker 1: to this child is justified, because if the police are
Speaker 1: not right, then the damage done to this child is
Speaker 1: just too great.
Speaker 8: We were just a regular family.
Speaker 1: This is that child's cousin. Her aunt is William's foster mother.
Speaker 1: Tell me about William. When did you first meet him?
Speaker 15: I think it was not long after he came into
Speaker 15: their care. He was only a baby. I mostly remember
Speaker 15: him as more of a toddler. He was full of energy.
Speaker 15: My nan I would always say he was full of beans,
Speaker 15: that was her saying, And he was just happy and giggly.
Speaker 15: He would run around the house when we were there
Speaker 15: for occasions, being just super excited to see people and
Speaker 15: the buzz that was happening because it was a Christmas
Speaker 15: or a birthday. I looked after him. One time I
Speaker 15: baby sat for a few hours in an evening and
Speaker 15: he would want to play monkey in the bed when.
Speaker 8: I put him to bed.
Speaker 1: There was a girl as well, who we can't name.
Speaker 1: How do you remember her from that time?
Speaker 8: She would double on him when he wanted to play
Speaker 8: monkey in the bed.
Speaker 14: And.
Speaker 15: She was just saying she loved, just loved, loved, loved
Speaker 15: when we came over, loved to see family, wanted to play.
Speaker 8: She was still pretty young then as well.
Speaker 1: Would you say they were a happy family.
Speaker 8: Yes?
Speaker 1: Absolutely, This was before William went missing and the police investigation.
Speaker 1: Obviously we both know what happened to Well, no, neither,
Speaker 1: we don't know what happened to William. William went missing.
Speaker 1: You remember that.
Speaker 15: I found out via Facebook. I was studying and what
Speaker 15: I was meant to be studying, and I was on
Speaker 15: Facebook and I saw the picture that came up from
Speaker 15: I think New South Wales Police that there was a
Speaker 15: missing boy. And I remember thinking no, it can't be.
Speaker 15: But I don't think I understood the gravity at that
Speaker 15: moment of what was happening. That took days, I think,
Speaker 15: to realize. And I went up there shortly.
Speaker 4: After how long after?
Speaker 8: I think it took me a couple of days to get.
Speaker 15: Up there, And then I saw my uncle and my
Speaker 15: aunt and it became apparent that this was h a
Speaker 15: real situation and it wasn't good.
Speaker 1: And in the years since then, you stayed close to
Speaker 1: your cousin.
Speaker 4: Yes, how was she going?
Speaker 15: This is probably really bad? But I always tried to
Speaker 15: like not focus on William. I don't know, It's trauma
Speaker 15: is a difficult thing for a kid to process. So
Speaker 15: my relationship was always to just treat her as I
Speaker 15: had always done, and try.
Speaker 8: And not.
Speaker 15: Highlight the trauma that had happened in her life, and
Speaker 15: to give her the most normal relationship with people. So
Speaker 15: we didn't really talk about it. I just tried to
Speaker 15: carry on and give her, you know, just that normalacy.
Speaker 12: Can I maybe skip forward in time, because obviously you
Speaker 12: would have sent the newspapers the same way everyone saw
Speaker 12: the newspapers about the police having a new suspect.
Speaker 15: Yeah, But then I was contacted by the police, and
Speaker 15: can you tell me what happened. I received an email
Speaker 15: from my dad telling me to contact these detectives because
Speaker 15: they wanted to speak to me. I had a formal,
Speaker 15: an informal telephone conversation with two detectives and seemed very casual,
Speaker 15: very kind of almost lighthearted to start with. They asked
Speaker 15: me what I thought had happened, and they asked me
Speaker 15: what my Nana thought had happened. And you know, Nana
Speaker 15: has always been the same, like she'd only ever really
Speaker 15: thought whoever they had just you know, recently highlighted as
Speaker 15: a suspect might be the person. And then they just
Speaker 15: went to, well, what do you think do you think
Speaker 15: he was just plucked out of thin air? And I
Speaker 15: think they suggested that aliens had beamed him up, and
Speaker 15: I said, well, obviously not. And then they were asking
Speaker 15: me about my aunt and uncle specifically and how they
Speaker 15: were with William and my cousin, and they tried to lead,
Speaker 15: well did they try to leave me? They tried to
Speaker 15: suggest that children can misbehave and how my aunt and
Speaker 15: uncle managed that, and I started to realize that they
Speaker 15: were actually looking at them, and I asked them that
Speaker 15: and they said, yes, how.
Speaker 1: Did you feel about that?
Speaker 15: Shook It really just shook me. I couldn't believe it,
Speaker 15: and I was shaking, and I got off the phone
Speaker 15: and I think I screamed into the air because it's
Speaker 15: just it was so frustrating the way that they had
Speaker 15: constructed this conversation without I suppose being I mean, they're
Speaker 15: the police, They're not going to be very transparent in
Speaker 15: situations like that. But I feel like they'd led me
Speaker 15: down a path. And I called my aunt immediately after,
Speaker 15: and I said, they're looking at you and Nana. Actually
Speaker 15: at that point they were suggesting that Nana had something
Speaker 15: to do with it as well, and they were asking
Speaker 15: me about her death and whether she'd said anything on
Speaker 15: her deathbed, and you know, things that just really it
Speaker 15: was an upsetting conversation.
Speaker 8: So I think that's what they were trying to do.
Speaker 15: I think they were trying to at all the cage.
Speaker 1: And how did your aunt respond when you told her that?
Speaker 15: To be honest, it seemed like it was the first
Speaker 15: time that she'd heard that, and she was so upset
Speaker 15: for a number of reasons, but for the most part,
Speaker 15: she was upset the fact that they were actually just
Speaker 15: not even looking for William. If they were looking at her,
Speaker 15: I meant they were wasting their time, that they actually
Speaker 15: didn't have any proper leads, that they actually didn't have
Speaker 15: any idea of what that had happened to William, and
Speaker 15: that I think it just all hope just felt like
Speaker 15: it had gone.
Speaker 1: Around the time William's fostermother was facing questions at the
Speaker 1: crime Commission, the police seized a car, a gray Masda III,
Speaker 1: that used to be owned by Williemiam's foster Nana. William's
Speaker 1: foster mother had told police she drove that car to
Speaker 1: look for him on the morning when William was reported missing.
Speaker 8: The police just seized it one day. They just turned up.
Speaker 15: It was at my partner's parents' house, and they just
Speaker 15: turned up with a cameraman and a tow truck.
Speaker 8: And took it.
Speaker 1: And the cameraman who turned up with the tow truck
Speaker 1: was to film themselves seizing the car. Yes, And did
Speaker 1: you ever see the footage that they took of themselves
Speaker 1: seizing the car.
Speaker 8: When it aired on the news.
Speaker 1: Yes, And we told that was going to be released
Speaker 1: to the media. That footage of the car being seized
Speaker 1: was sent to journalists around the same time as police
Speaker 1: launched the latest huge forensic search of the area around
Speaker 1: where William went missing. It's carefully stage managed.
Speaker 14: David Laidlaw Laidlaw Detective, Chief Inspector at the homicide Squad.
Speaker 1: The police film themselves at work and send this footage
Speaker 1: to the TV stations.
Speaker 14: We are here today at Kendall in relation to the
Speaker 14: circumstances of surrounding William missing from this residents seven years ago.
Speaker 14: The investigative team is here together with the local detectives
Speaker 14: and also with the Fornzy personnel to have another look
Speaker 14: at the scene here and also the area around Kendall.
Speaker 1: This search for evidence in the car and outside Kendall
Speaker 1: takes place months after that front page story saying police
Speaker 1: are confident they've cracked the case, and those detectives told
Speaker 1: William's foster mother, we know why it happened, we know
Speaker 1: how it happened, and we know where he is.
Speaker 8: They're looking for evidence.
Speaker 1: So how long did they have the car for?
Speaker 15: Over twelve months? They said it had to go to
Speaker 15: the panel beater and they sent me through the panel
Speaker 15: beater's report.
Speaker 1: So they've done enough work to the car that it
Speaker 1: had to be substantially repaired afterwards.
Speaker 15: Yeah, but it seems to me that almost every panel
Speaker 15: in the car was replaced.
Speaker 1: I've seen the list of repairs to that MASDA. The
Speaker 1: front bumper, the headlights, new door handles, new door mirror,
Speaker 1: new rear bumper, new cabin and boot trims. The list
Speaker 1: goes on. It looks like the police took that car
Speaker 1: to pieces and found nothing, which is all the police
Speaker 1: find in their excavation of the area around Kendall where
Speaker 1: William was reported missing. At which point you have to
Speaker 1: ask when does legitimate police investigation and putting pressure on
Speaker 1: a suspect trip over into harassment or malicious prosecution of
Speaker 1: the kind we've seen before in the William Tyrrell investigation
Speaker 1: with the very first suspect, the washing machine repairman Bill Spedding.
Speaker 1: The police would go on to charge William's foster parents
Speaker 1: with lying during their questioning by the Crime Commission, but
Speaker 1: both foster parents would be found not guilty. That would
Speaker 1: take more rounds of court hearings and hostile headlines, and
Speaker 1: after the last of these, the foster parents will go
Speaker 1: home to a silent house that no longer has any
Speaker 1: children in it. While I catch the lift down from
Speaker 1: the courtroom to the ground floor, along with the detectives
Speaker 1: from the strikeforce. Inside, we all stand cramped together, me,
Speaker 1: the cops in their dark suits, and a few lawyers.
Speaker 1: I will look at the lead detective, David Laidlaw and say, honestly,
Speaker 1: I wasn't expecting a not guilty result. He looks at
Speaker 1: me and is defiant, almost dismissing the court verdict. He says,
Speaker 1: common sense did not prevail. The lift doors open and
Speaker 1: we walk out in silence, looking back on everything that
Speaker 1: has happened. How do you feel now?
Speaker 15: I still feel really frustrated and angry, angry at who,
Speaker 15: Angry at whoever took William and started this and ruined
Speaker 15: so many lives, Angry at the police in recent years,
Speaker 15: Frustrated that they haven't found anything. One of my nana's
Speaker 15: greatest regrets, in what she would say in the moments
Speaker 15: before she passed away, was that she would never know,
Speaker 15: but what it's done to my family, and it's changed.
Speaker 15: It just turned everyone's lives upside down completely and life
Speaker 15: will never be the same.
Speaker 1: And we'll leave it there. But that isn't the end.
Speaker 1: I mentioned how the police sent a brief of evidence
Speaker 1: to the state's Director of Public Prosecutions seeking advice on
Speaker 1: whether to charge William's foster mother over disposing of his body. Well,
Speaker 1: the DPP did look at it and started asking questions.
Speaker 1: The detectives were sent back to talk to some of
Speaker 1: the witnesses again, asking things like did Williams foster mother
Speaker 1: have access to any other cars that morning? That took days,
Speaker 1: which turned into weeks, which turned into months, then silence,
Speaker 1: and then the new South Wales Police Force asked the
Speaker 1: DPP to suspend its consideration of the brief of evidence
Speaker 1: until the end of the inquest into William's disappearance, which
Speaker 1: is still running and will now come back next week
Speaker 1: for what it says will be its final hearing and
Speaker 1: we will be there. That's in the next episode of
Speaker 1: Witness William Tyrrell. A lot of different people have been
Speaker 1: involved in making this series. Among them, the executive producer
Speaker 1: is Nina Young. The sound design was by Tiffany Dimack.
Speaker 1: The producers have been Emily Pigeon, Nicholas Adams, Jazzbar, Phoebe
Speaker 1: Zakowski Wallace and Tabby Wilson. Research by Adan Patrick, original
Speaker 1: music by Rory O'Connor voice acting in this episode by Bethbox.
Speaker 1: Our lawyer is Stephen Coombs. The editor at news dot
Speaker 1: com dot Au is Kerry Warren. I'm Dan Box