WEBVTT - The Suspect | William Tyrrell: 10 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:07.160 Oh you've done this before. Yeah, all good, okay, thanks you. 0:00:08.960 --> 0:00:12.760 September twenty twenty one, you break the story police close 0:00:12.800 --> 0:00:15.840 in on a new suspect, William Copp's confident they have 0:00:15.880 --> 0:00:19.800 cracked the case. How did that come about? 0:00:24.400 --> 0:00:26.920 So I bump into somebody and I've got to be 0:00:27.000 --> 0:00:28.760 very careful, obviously is the source. 0:00:30.160 --> 0:00:32.880 Mark Murray, or Moz to his friends, is the crime 0:00:33.000 --> 0:00:38.560 editor at Sydney's Daily Telegraph newspaper. Moz is old school. 0:00:38.800 --> 0:00:41.120 You'll often find him on the phone or in the pub, 0:00:41.760 --> 0:00:46.240 usually halfway through telling a long story about Sydney's underworld. 0:00:46.440 --> 0:00:48.920 And he's been working the crime beat in this city 0:00:49.520 --> 0:00:52.280 for as long as I have been alive, and for 0:00:52.400 --> 0:00:56.160 my money, Moz is the best crime reporter in New 0:00:56.200 --> 0:00:56.920 South Wales. 0:00:58.520 --> 0:01:03.760 I'll literally bump into somebody who is not a detective, 0:01:03.840 --> 0:01:06.320 was not even based at Paramount of Police headquarters where 0:01:06.319 --> 0:01:08.440 all the detectives are. I just want to establish that 0:01:08.800 --> 0:01:14.400 this person somehow knew quite a lot about the new 0:01:14.480 --> 0:01:18.280 way the investigation was going in the police. Person in 0:01:18.319 --> 0:01:21.520 the police yes, okay, but not a detective. But anyway, 0:01:22.000 --> 0:01:26.760 somebody in the police force who said, look, this is 0:01:27.240 --> 0:01:34.039 what's happening now. I believe that William went over the balcony, 0:01:35.560 --> 0:01:41.560 that the foster mother was involved, and quite a few 0:01:41.600 --> 0:01:44.160 details full disclosure. 0:01:44.600 --> 0:01:48.120 I like mos He and I go back where colleagues 0:01:48.240 --> 0:01:51.760 and have been rivals, each trying to break bigger stories 0:01:51.760 --> 0:01:55.360 for our different newspapers. And in the past couple of years, 0:01:55.400 --> 0:01:59.440 I've overseen another podcast where Moz is one of the hosts. 0:02:00.240 --> 0:02:02.400 And I'm paranoid. Like everybody, I didn't want to talk 0:02:02.440 --> 0:02:05.640 on the phone this person. I didn't ring police because 0:02:05.680 --> 0:02:08.560 I didn't want anyone having their phone records matched up 0:02:08.560 --> 0:02:11.160 to when this story potentially comes out. So I was 0:02:11.200 --> 0:02:13.320 in here and I I ran to Ben, you know, 0:02:13.360 --> 0:02:16.399 the editor English. Yeah, And I told him this whole 0:02:16.480 --> 0:02:20.600 story is mind blowing. This is probably the biggest mystery 0:02:20.600 --> 0:02:25.839 in Australia currently, the biggest crime story mystery. And here 0:02:25.880 --> 0:02:30.000 we have this massive new information on it. And I said, 0:02:30.000 --> 0:02:31.720 I've got to confirm it, but I've got to be 0:02:31.760 --> 0:02:34.640 careful how I go about it. And he said, okay. 0:02:35.040 --> 0:02:38.520 And I'm still thinking, who the fuck do I ring here? 0:02:38.880 --> 0:02:39.040 Right? 0:02:39.320 --> 0:02:43.360 One? I don't want somebody shutting me down or but 0:02:43.600 --> 0:02:45.320 I want to make sure I don't stuff up an 0:02:45.320 --> 0:02:49.560 investigation like that is every crime report is primary. You 0:02:49.560 --> 0:02:52.280 don't want to stuff up an investigation because one, you 0:02:52.320 --> 0:02:54.920 don't want to see somebody get away with something. And 0:02:54.960 --> 0:02:57.160 to no one's going to talk to you again. 0:02:58.080 --> 0:03:01.560 And this scoop Mores is describing being it was always 0:03:01.639 --> 0:03:05.200 going to get attention. It's the moment the police went 0:03:05.320 --> 0:03:08.920 public saying they were looking at William Toole's foster mother 0:03:09.440 --> 0:03:13.600 as a suspect. Only the way that happened, at least 0:03:13.639 --> 0:03:17.480 as Mos tells it, this scoop was a stuff up, 0:03:18.400 --> 0:03:19.240 just not his. 0:03:20.200 --> 0:03:22.160 So I was in the office Ben and I and 0:03:22.200 --> 0:03:24.359 he said, oh, maybe i'd make a call or two. 0:03:24.639 --> 0:03:28.320 I go, yeah, right, And he comes out like an 0:03:28.360 --> 0:03:32.520 hour two hours later, he said, I've run that past 0:03:32.800 --> 0:03:36.920 and I don't know who. And he said, we're find 0:03:36.960 --> 0:03:39.440 a runner. I said, you're sure it's not going to 0:03:39.440 --> 0:03:42.200 stuff anybody up. He said, it's it's one hundred percent. 0:03:42.240 --> 0:03:42.800 You're okay. 0:03:43.040 --> 0:03:45.400 And I then made no more calls because I thought 0:03:45.560 --> 0:03:48.240 it was one hundred percent. It was sweet. So I 0:03:48.240 --> 0:03:51.800 wrote the story. Said to Benn, are we going to 0:03:51.920 --> 0:03:53.480 run in a day or two? He said, oh, you 0:03:53.520 --> 0:03:55.760 know what, let's just run up tomorrow and go okay. 0:03:55.800 --> 0:03:57.440 I said, are you sure it's okay? He said, yeah, sure, 0:03:57.440 --> 0:03:59.280 it's sweet. I'm thinking, well, I'm not going to ring 0:03:59.360 --> 0:04:02.880 anyone because I know he says it's fine. So I 0:04:02.880 --> 0:04:10.360 thought all the major players had been notified, right, investigators, everybody. 0:04:10.520 --> 0:04:14.600 But everybody hadn't been notified that MOS's story was coming. 0:04:15.000 --> 0:04:18.560 And that matters because we're talking about a live police 0:04:18.600 --> 0:04:23.960 investigation into a missing child, meaning detectives are still working 0:04:24.000 --> 0:04:27.680 the case. They're talking to witnesses, they're choosing what to 0:04:27.760 --> 0:04:30.920 tell people and what not to tell them, and they 0:04:30.920 --> 0:04:32.960 have covert surveillance running. 0:04:33.960 --> 0:04:36.200 And in the end, we put it up at about 0:04:36.240 --> 0:04:40.039 eight o'clock and so you published it and my phone 0:04:40.040 --> 0:04:44.760 went nuts. And it's a turtle miscommunication somewhere along the 0:04:44.839 --> 0:04:45.840 hierarchy chain. 0:04:47.720 --> 0:04:49.320 So they didn't know the story was coming. 0:04:49.400 --> 0:04:50.160 They didn't know the story. 0:04:50.200 --> 0:04:55.040 So the cops in homicide, particularly running the investigation, the 0:04:55.080 --> 0:04:56.560 investigation didn't know. 0:04:56.600 --> 0:04:59.679 Didn't know. So that would be Dave ladlaw right, who's 0:04:59.720 --> 0:05:02.560 now still in charge. He had no idea. Now I've 0:05:02.600 --> 0:05:07.560 had known him again for years. It just meant that 0:05:08.520 --> 0:05:13.400 everyone in homicide believed I'd broken the golden rule. You know, 0:05:13.839 --> 0:05:16.960 potentially an investigation, that's the golden rule, and that is 0:05:17.000 --> 0:05:17.640 the golden ruar. 0:05:18.080 --> 0:05:21.480 So in this case, the cop running the investigation into 0:05:21.520 --> 0:05:24.520 William's disappearance didn't know that you were going to run this. 0:05:24.880 --> 0:05:27.719 His boss who's the head of homicide didn't know you 0:05:27.760 --> 0:05:30.680 were going to run this. My understanding is the assistant 0:05:30.720 --> 0:05:35.080 commissioner didn't know, and the relevant deputy commissioner didn't know either. 0:05:35.880 --> 0:05:41.280 Yes, subsequently I found that out. Yeah, but sickening feeling. 0:05:41.600 --> 0:05:48.000 It's really because this one that's my lifeblood, is your 0:05:48.040 --> 0:05:52.200 reputation and your contacts, and there was anger, There was 0:05:52.400 --> 0:05:53.200 serious anger. 0:05:54.600 --> 0:05:57.880 So the question is who should be the target of 0:05:57.920 --> 0:06:02.680 that anger. Who's blame for this stuff up that might 0:06:02.720 --> 0:06:04.919 have damaged the William Tyrrell investigation? 0:06:05.800 --> 0:06:08.280 Even to this day, people would like to know the 0:06:08.279 --> 0:06:09.320 initial source. 0:06:10.880 --> 0:06:12.960 But it's not just the initial source, is it. Because 0:06:12.960 --> 0:06:16.479 the initial source with what you do, maybe has a 0:06:16.520 --> 0:06:19.479 casual conversation with you, and that is your job, and 0:06:19.520 --> 0:06:22.880 that's that happens. But there's also the secondary source who 0:06:22.920 --> 0:06:27.520 confirms it to your editor. So there's two sources of 0:06:27.560 --> 0:06:30.760 this league, which the. 0:06:30.880 --> 0:06:34.120 More importantly saying it is Okay. 0:06:34.960 --> 0:06:37.160 The thing about the story was it was pretty strong. 0:06:38.279 --> 0:06:42.160 It wasn't you know. It starts off police zero in 0:06:42.160 --> 0:06:45.120 on a new person of interest, fair enough, who they 0:06:45.160 --> 0:06:48.520 believe is responsible for the death and disappearance of William Tyrell. 0:06:50.320 --> 0:06:53.400 Police are now confident they will solve the mystery of 0:06:53.440 --> 0:06:59.360 the disappearance. A new investigation has uncovered clues previously not explored. 0:07:01.040 --> 0:07:03.680 And although at the start you're talking about a person 0:07:03.720 --> 0:07:06.520 of interest, by midpoint through the article you're calling that 0:07:06.560 --> 0:07:09.920 person a suspect. You're not naming them, but you're saying 0:07:09.960 --> 0:07:13.240 the cops suspect this person is respective. 0:07:13.400 --> 0:07:16.680 Wish we'd actually said that it's on the foster appearance now, 0:07:16.680 --> 0:07:18.160 I think we probably could have gone with it. 0:07:18.160 --> 0:07:20.480 It was pretty obvious who you were talking about. I mean, 0:07:21.040 --> 0:07:26.000 everybody knew. Everybody did know, because as soon as Mozzy's 0:07:26.080 --> 0:07:30.000 article is published, other reporters are calling the police force, 0:07:30.320 --> 0:07:34.640 who do confirm their new suspect is William's foster mother. 0:07:35.440 --> 0:07:38.080 Good afternoon, There have been major developments in the William 0:07:38.160 --> 0:07:40.800 Terrell investigation today, and as we go to wear this afternoon, 0:07:40.880 --> 0:07:43.600 this is what we know. The toddler's foster mother is 0:07:43.680 --> 0:07:47.600 now the key person of interest in his disappearance. 0:07:47.520 --> 0:07:51.120 The key person of interest, despite as we now know 0:07:51.280 --> 0:07:55.200 from the inquest, the police having no forensic or witness 0:07:55.200 --> 0:07:59.120 evidence to support that. And all of this attention also 0:07:59.360 --> 0:08:04.240 explode what had actually been a careful, gradual strategy to 0:08:04.320 --> 0:08:08.960 apply pressure to William's foster mother through other leaks to 0:08:09.040 --> 0:08:12.720 the media and select interviews with chosen reporters. 0:08:13.080 --> 0:08:15.400 So if anyone out there is thinking I might have 0:08:15.440 --> 0:08:17.440 gotten away with this, what's your message? 0:08:17.960 --> 0:08:22.240 They haven't like this Sky News interview with David Laidlaw, 0:08:22.520 --> 0:08:24.080 the new lead detective. 0:08:24.640 --> 0:08:26.680 You know what happened, don't you? You know who it is. 0:08:27.760 --> 0:08:31.680 We have thoughts about what occurred to William, Yes, and 0:08:31.720 --> 0:08:32.680 who was responsible? 0:08:32.840 --> 0:08:38.400 Yes. The police strategy was to slowly ratchet up the 0:08:38.400 --> 0:08:42.679 pressure while all the time the foster parents' house and 0:08:42.800 --> 0:08:48.760 car and telephones are being recorded with covert surveillance. It's 0:08:48.840 --> 0:08:51.960 exactly the same kind of tactics that led to the 0:08:52.040 --> 0:08:57.160 downfall of the previous lead detective, Gary Jubilin. But Moz's 0:08:57.200 --> 0:09:01.360 front page story blows up without warning, right in the 0:09:01.400 --> 0:09:03.199 middle of this careful strategy. 0:09:04.880 --> 0:09:09.000 I was told, in no uncertain terms, an explosion has 0:09:09.000 --> 0:09:14.360 gone on. There is which hunts, there is anger, and 0:09:14.400 --> 0:09:18.800 I can understand because this is a huge case. They're 0:09:18.800 --> 0:09:21.840 trying to solve the case of a missing boy at 0:09:22.120 --> 0:09:25.040 a little child, and no matter what we say, and 0:09:25.080 --> 0:09:27.360 how no matter what they say, and that every case 0:09:27.480 --> 0:09:33.440 is equal, every murder is equal, every it isn't emotion 0:09:33.600 --> 0:09:36.719 gets you know, there's a little child, you know, And 0:09:38.320 --> 0:09:46.400 so to have their strategy stuffed up innocently bye whoever, 0:09:47.200 --> 0:09:47.520 I don't know. 0:09:47.880 --> 0:09:50.160 I take issue with that because, yeah, you may have 0:09:50.520 --> 0:09:54.000 stuffed up their strategy innocently, because you, as a journalist, 0:09:54.040 --> 0:09:56.319 to writing what you've been told and what you've been 0:09:56.320 --> 0:10:00.280 told by someone in the police is good to go. Yeah, 0:10:00.800 --> 0:10:05.920 But that person who your editor, Ben English spoke to. 0:10:06.040 --> 0:10:08.040 He's SARTI spoken in more than one and I might 0:10:08.080 --> 0:10:11.400 have been, and I've got to be you know, he 0:10:11.520 --> 0:10:14.600 has he has sources that still amaze me. 0:10:14.679 --> 0:10:19.800 Right, But that person who to have known that must 0:10:20.200 --> 0:10:24.720 almost certainly have been in the police themselves and confirmed 0:10:24.720 --> 0:10:27.559 it to Ben and said, yeah, you can go with that. 0:10:27.559 --> 0:10:29.479 That person is not acting innocently. 0:10:34.920 --> 0:10:40.319 No, And I want yeah, I can't answer that because 0:10:40.320 --> 0:10:43.120 I don't know the person. 0:10:43.760 --> 0:10:46.800 I spoke to Mozzy's editor, Ben English, and he's not 0:10:47.000 --> 0:10:50.080 going to reveal his source, and I wouldn't expect him to. 0:10:51.120 --> 0:10:55.640 But it's not really about Ben. It's about those people 0:10:55.840 --> 0:10:58.040 caught up in the fallout. 0:10:58.480 --> 0:11:03.319 And I've currently found out it didn't stuff up any investigation. 0:11:03.360 --> 0:11:06.240 In fact, there was a media strategy almost in place 0:11:06.280 --> 0:11:09.760 to use the telegraph exactly the way we did it, 0:11:09.800 --> 0:11:11.559 except for it didn't match their timetable. 0:11:12.679 --> 0:11:16.199 There is one other aspect to this in terms of 0:11:16.240 --> 0:11:21.960 the fall out is that William's biological foster parents weren't 0:11:21.960 --> 0:11:31.600 told this story was coming before it came, and there's 0:11:31.600 --> 0:11:34.000 an element of emotional damage done by. 0:11:33.880 --> 0:11:44.079 That, yeah, which again I didn't know. Well, I'd imagine 0:11:45.320 --> 0:11:51.760 the foster parents who were target of the investigation. I thought, 0:11:52.320 --> 0:11:55.360 when you're given the good to go, I would have 0:11:55.400 --> 0:11:57.800 thought that there was something in place, and I think 0:11:57.880 --> 0:12:00.960 that there still would have been saw something in their 0:12:00.960 --> 0:12:03.840 house no matter what there were you. Yeah, so that 0:12:03.880 --> 0:12:08.280 wouldn't have bagged that part up. The emotional to the 0:12:08.360 --> 0:12:11.040 biological painchere. I can see where you're coming from, and 0:12:11.080 --> 0:12:17.679 that's something I think we hadn't probably explored enough. 0:12:18.160 --> 0:12:22.800 But I don't think it's on you. Moss says it's 0:12:22.840 --> 0:12:27.080 taken him years to repair his reputation and his relationship 0:12:27.120 --> 0:12:30.880 with some of the detectives in the homicide squad. So 0:12:30.960 --> 0:12:35.120 he's another person who suffered at least a little in 0:12:35.160 --> 0:12:38.160 the fallout from the way police have handled the William 0:12:38.160 --> 0:12:43.079 Tyran investigation. And talking to Moz, I'm starting to think 0:12:43.120 --> 0:12:45.920 how this is only the latest in a history of 0:12:46.000 --> 0:12:49.680 leaks from the police force in this case, going right 0:12:49.720 --> 0:12:53.680 back to the first raids on Bill Spedding, to Bill's arrest, 0:12:54.400 --> 0:12:58.040 the details of what he was wrongly charged with, the 0:12:58.120 --> 0:13:02.080 existence of other potential suspect that was leaked, as was 0:13:02.160 --> 0:13:06.800 Gary Jubilin being taken off the investigation. And then there's 0:13:06.920 --> 0:13:11.360 this leak about the police suddenly suspecting William's foster mother, 0:13:11.920 --> 0:13:16.800 which will in turn be followed by another leak. Good evening. 0:13:16.840 --> 0:13:19.480 We begin tonight with breaking news on one of Australia's 0:13:19.480 --> 0:13:21.200 most baffling cases. 0:13:21.080 --> 0:13:24.040 This time revealing that police have sent a brief of 0:13:24.080 --> 0:13:27.360 evidence to the States Director of Public Prosecutions. 0:13:27.760 --> 0:13:31.440 Nine News can reveal detectives now believe there's enough evidence 0:13:31.480 --> 0:13:35.880 to charge the toddler's foster mother over his disappearance. 0:13:35.600 --> 0:13:39.320 This news breaking in June last year, a day after 0:13:39.400 --> 0:13:41.840 what would have been William's twelfth birthday. 0:13:43.320 --> 0:13:46.520 Talking about leaks, that's the one that's caused more consternation 0:13:47.280 --> 0:13:50.920 than anyone. That they had handed a brief to the DPP. 0:13:51.920 --> 0:13:55.360 Now that was even a bigger leak because I think 0:13:55.400 --> 0:13:57.120 only seven people knew, and I know there was an 0:13:57.160 --> 0:14:01.960 internal investigation over there. So I think the reporter involved 0:14:01.960 --> 0:14:04.320 in that, she's been sent to Coventry. I know it 0:14:04.320 --> 0:14:07.160 actually feels because they're furious about that. 0:14:08.600 --> 0:14:12.840 And if the police are furious, it's because these leaks 0:14:13.000 --> 0:14:17.400 keep threatening to damage the investigation into who took three 0:14:17.480 --> 0:14:21.960 year old William Tyrell, who kind of gets forgotten in 0:14:22.040 --> 0:14:26.080 the storm of headlines and the internal politics in which 0:14:26.120 --> 0:14:30.640 this whole case has played out over the past decade. 0:14:31.040 --> 0:14:35.600 I think Tyrrell has no boundaries. It's a national It's 0:14:35.640 --> 0:14:40.960 like one of those stories that captures the whole nation. 0:14:41.120 --> 0:14:45.440 It just doesn't. It's not just a Sydney or Telegraph story, 0:14:45.520 --> 0:14:54.600 don't you think. And certain reporters have become obsessed, haven't they. 0:14:54.760 --> 0:14:59.560 I'm not innocent within this. I'm a reporter. I like leaks, 0:15:00.200 --> 0:15:05.000 like being leaked to, But standing back, I can see 0:15:05.440 --> 0:15:09.800 how innocent lives get caught up in the explosion when 0:15:09.840 --> 0:15:13.400 these bombs go off on the front pages, or because 0:15:13.480 --> 0:15:17.360 someone couldn't keep their mouth shut on a phone call 0:15:17.440 --> 0:15:21.560 with a reporter or an editor. And I can see 0:15:21.560 --> 0:15:27.600 how these leaks also feed the damage and suspicion surrounding 0:15:27.640 --> 0:15:33.360 this investigation, as have other leaks which are more illicit 0:15:33.760 --> 0:15:37.560 and more damaging and where the police are not the 0:15:37.600 --> 0:15:42.560 only guilty party. From news dot com dot Au. This 0:15:42.800 --> 0:15:48.120 is Witness William Tyrol episode ten. The suspect. 0:15:55.240 --> 0:15:58.640 Had a higher Yeah great, oh thanks you interested? 0:15:58.880 --> 0:16:00.320 Yeah. 0:16:00.480 --> 0:16:03.840 This is a woman called Alana Smith speaking to another 0:16:03.880 --> 0:16:07.760 colleague of mine, the journalist Caroline Overington, in twenty twenty one, 0:16:08.400 --> 0:16:11.760 the same year MOS broke that story about police now 0:16:11.800 --> 0:16:13.440 looking at William's foster mother. 0:16:13.680 --> 0:16:15.880 All right, let's go it comes true. 0:16:16.880 --> 0:16:20.080 Alana has some skin in the game here. She once 0:16:20.120 --> 0:16:23.800 went to court arguing for the right to publicly identify 0:16:23.920 --> 0:16:27.600 William Tyrol as a foster child when the government was 0:16:27.680 --> 0:16:32.120 refusing to let that happen, which is partly why Caroline 0:16:32.280 --> 0:16:33.320 wanted to talk to her. 0:16:33.720 --> 0:16:37.160 It's just audio, it's a podcast, is just boys, boys. 0:16:37.280 --> 0:16:41.160 That's not what interested me though, listening to this recording, 0:16:42.080 --> 0:16:44.960 I'm interested in one particular moment. 0:16:45.280 --> 0:16:46.440 We don't need to clear everything off, but do you 0:16:46.480 --> 0:16:47.680 want to just move that computer? 0:16:48.080 --> 0:16:52.680 Which happens while they're still setting up the interview, and 0:16:52.720 --> 0:16:53.880 we might need this cheering. 0:16:54.240 --> 0:16:57.520 Here's some stuff on news from the proof perfect, thank you. 0:16:57.800 --> 0:17:03.440 But Alana says there's some stuff on here from the 0:17:03.520 --> 0:17:07.439 brief and hands it over. The brief is the brief 0:17:07.520 --> 0:17:11.159 of evidence, meaning all of the evidence the police have 0:17:11.280 --> 0:17:15.160 gathered in this case for the inquest into William's disappearance, 0:17:15.800 --> 0:17:21.240 and which somehow leaked, got into the papers and ended 0:17:21.320 --> 0:17:26.200 up circling around the internet. And that matters because this 0:17:26.440 --> 0:17:32.280 is evidence from a police investigation which today is still ongoing, 0:17:32.920 --> 0:17:37.800 and these leaked documents include police statements and transcripts of 0:17:37.880 --> 0:17:43.320 interviews with witnesses, including William's foster parents, and their phone 0:17:43.400 --> 0:17:49.600 records and photographs marked protected and confidential, all of which, 0:17:50.800 --> 0:17:55.439 if it becomes public, can only undermine the police and 0:17:55.480 --> 0:17:59.920 the inquest and their chances of bringing to justice whoever 0:18:00.160 --> 0:18:05.399 it was who took William. And Alana must know she's 0:18:05.480 --> 0:18:09.800 not supposed to just hand this stuff over listen again. 0:18:10.520 --> 0:18:13.440 There's some stuff on these from the proof perfect. 0:18:13.160 --> 0:18:14.200 Thank you, but. 0:18:16.080 --> 0:18:20.080 There, she says, but you don't know I have that. 0:18:24.359 --> 0:18:28.600 Alana has her own take on William's disappearance. She's gone 0:18:28.680 --> 0:18:34.200 online herself a lot, calling William's foster parents quote dirty 0:18:34.280 --> 0:18:39.680 fucking parasites, and calling Gary Jubilin a corrupt, fucking motherfucker 0:18:40.160 --> 0:18:44.080 and worse. I shouldn't need to say this, but there's 0:18:44.160 --> 0:18:47.439 no evidence to back up her insults, and I'm only 0:18:47.480 --> 0:18:53.639 mentioning them to demonstrate just how dirty and polluted everything 0:18:54.040 --> 0:18:58.760 surrounding this case has got. So I called Alana, but 0:18:59.240 --> 0:19:06.840 she didn't answer. Then she called me back, Hallo, Hello Dan, 0:19:07.080 --> 0:19:08.960 Hi Alana, how are you doing? Yes? 0:19:09.000 --> 0:19:10.359 Good, thank you. I just want to let you know 0:19:10.400 --> 0:19:11.840 that I'm recording the conversation. 0:19:12.440 --> 0:19:14.880 That's fine, you are happy if I record it as well. 0:19:15.280 --> 0:19:19.960 Of course, Alana has written things about me online also. 0:19:20.480 --> 0:19:24.760 Since starting this series, we've exchanged messages on Facebook in 0:19:24.800 --> 0:19:29.520 which she's called me assy but definitely not classy. She's 0:19:29.520 --> 0:19:32.359 called me a weak ass journo and that it's about 0:19:32.440 --> 0:19:34.640 time I was brought into line. 0:19:35.320 --> 0:19:38.080 This will be a one way conversation, but I'm all used, Dan. 0:19:38.880 --> 0:19:40.520 When you say one way conversation, how do you. 0:19:40.480 --> 0:19:44.920 Mean, Well, it'll be you talking because I truly have nothing, 0:19:45.160 --> 0:19:49.640 honestly nothing to say to you. I've articulated my thoughts 0:19:49.640 --> 0:19:53.879 and my feelings about what you and your current colleagues 0:19:54.000 --> 0:19:57.800 are doing and how you are stewing, and I don't 0:19:57.840 --> 0:19:58.919 give a fuck. 0:19:58.760 --> 0:20:03.480 In Alana says, I'm skewing the facts. 0:20:03.680 --> 0:20:08.080 The facts between within that brief of evidence. 0:20:08.480 --> 0:20:12.199 Because there is nothing that I have further need to 0:20:12.280 --> 0:20:12.960 say to you. 0:20:13.760 --> 0:20:17.040 There isn't already abundantly clear within the documents. 0:20:17.359 --> 0:20:23.200 Sure you're getting cliques, Sure you're getting paid, Sure you're hanging. 0:20:22.800 --> 0:20:26.560 Out with the fucking bee boys, but your morals and. 0:20:26.480 --> 0:20:30.320 Your ethics are in the fucking gutta and shame on you, 0:20:30.600 --> 0:20:31.600 Dan Box. 0:20:32.720 --> 0:20:36.879 Basically, Alana doesn't like the way we've made this podcast. 0:20:37.280 --> 0:20:40.440 What is it that you fucking want from me? Apart 0:20:40.640 --> 0:20:42.000 from the truth. 0:20:41.880 --> 0:20:43.280 And I'm giving it to you. 0:20:43.840 --> 0:20:46.800 I'd have you and Gary Jubilin in a quarter of 0:20:46.880 --> 0:20:49.960 law in a fucking heartbeat. 0:20:50.480 --> 0:20:54.120 She says, we're pursuing a narrative one that she does 0:20:54.200 --> 0:20:55.000 not agree with. 0:20:56.280 --> 0:21:01.440 Shame on you because you use every god. 0:21:01.359 --> 0:21:03.400 Damn day and get out of bed and put your 0:21:03.440 --> 0:21:06.919 fucking fancy pants on and continue to go down this 0:21:07.080 --> 0:21:12.080 contractual sheep fuckery. And there's only one person to blame 0:21:12.160 --> 0:21:15.960 apart from yourself. You you, you, yourself. 0:21:15.480 --> 0:21:16.600 And yourself. 0:21:18.160 --> 0:21:20.440 Can have nothing to say. 0:21:20.640 --> 0:21:22.600 And the people that I'm going to say it to. 0:21:24.280 --> 0:21:25.440 I said it online. 0:21:25.800 --> 0:21:28.680 Actually I said shit about you on an open from 0:21:28.680 --> 0:21:29.520 I went and said that. 0:21:30.000 --> 0:21:30.359 Listen. 0:21:30.400 --> 0:21:31.600 I hope we're recorded. 0:21:33.600 --> 0:21:35.120 I truly hope we're recorded. 0:21:35.400 --> 0:21:37.959 Oh yeah, we are. Yeah you said you said you're recording, 0:21:37.960 --> 0:21:38.640 and I am as well. 0:21:39.000 --> 0:21:41.760 And I'll be a push for. 0:21:41.720 --> 0:21:45.119 A fucking gondab inquiry one way or another, come hell 0:21:45.400 --> 0:21:46.520 or high water. 0:21:47.680 --> 0:21:51.480 Can I ask you a couple of things nation trial alone? 0:21:51.560 --> 0:21:52.479 Can I ask you something? 0:21:53.280 --> 0:21:55.960 Well, whether you can ask or I'll allow you to 0:21:56.040 --> 0:21:57.000 ask me, whether I. 0:21:57.200 --> 0:21:58.840 Yeah you one hundred percent, You don't have to answer. 0:21:58.880 --> 0:22:01.720 I just need to ask. There's a couple of things 0:22:01.760 --> 0:22:05.400 I'm interested in. You talked about putting things, putting things online. 0:22:06.080 --> 0:22:09.320 You've you've obviously said a lot about William's foster parents. 0:22:09.320 --> 0:22:12.280 You've said their murderers, you've said their pedophiles, and so on. 0:22:12.359 --> 0:22:15.000 Yeh, sure we got taken a call over and got fucking. 0:22:14.720 --> 0:22:15.560 Tried about it. 0:22:16.040 --> 0:22:18.040 You know, I'll bean yeah, and we'll go. 0:22:17.960 --> 0:22:19.879 Again, because fucking we'll go again. 0:22:19.960 --> 0:22:23.560 If that's getting into court, pushing the boundaries is the 0:22:23.600 --> 0:22:24.320 only fucking what. 0:22:24.880 --> 0:22:26.240 You don't have any evidence of that. 0:22:26.520 --> 0:22:29.320 How you got the fucking files? How I got the 0:22:29.359 --> 0:22:30.320 fucking files. 0:22:31.520 --> 0:22:34.680 That's actually my second question. That's the second thing I'm 0:22:34.680 --> 0:22:38.040 interested in. You have shared documents from the brief of 0:22:38.080 --> 0:22:40.160 evidence with journalists. 0:22:40.040 --> 0:22:42.120 So what you're talking about. 0:22:41.960 --> 0:22:44.680 I've got you on tape doing it, Alana, sure. 0:22:44.880 --> 0:22:47.920 Sure, And if I have, then if I have, then 0:22:47.920 --> 0:22:49.040 it's been in private. 0:22:49.520 --> 0:22:50.880 And that's what journalists do. 0:22:52.400 --> 0:22:55.600 But why have you shared documents from the kid? But 0:22:55.640 --> 0:22:58.600 why did you share documents from the brief of evidence 0:22:58.720 --> 0:23:00.480 in a live homicide and investigation? 0:23:01.400 --> 0:23:04.600 The same reason I started a petition, the same reason 0:23:04.640 --> 0:23:08.120 I told a Supreme Court judge to go fuck himself, 0:23:08.880 --> 0:23:11.760 The same reason I continue to argue the point to 0:23:11.800 --> 0:23:16.439 you in every other journo, the same reason why I 0:23:16.560 --> 0:23:19.440 continue to tell you that you're a lie life scumbag 0:23:19.600 --> 0:23:22.679 on a moral principle, because there's a fucking child missing 0:23:22.720 --> 0:23:23.480 in state care. 0:23:24.440 --> 0:23:29.399 So you shared those you shared those police documents because. 0:23:30.000 --> 0:23:31.240 I don't give a shit. 0:23:31.800 --> 0:23:33.760 You want to get litigious. 0:23:33.640 --> 0:23:38.480 I'm not I'm definitely not threatening. I'm just trying to understand. 0:23:39.640 --> 0:23:41.400 Quite okay for you to do that. 0:23:41.680 --> 0:23:44.159 I definitely I'm not threatening. I've got no interest in 0:23:44.240 --> 0:23:46.879 legal action. But I am trying to understand why you 0:23:46.920 --> 0:23:51.480 would share documents, Why you'd share police documents from a 0:23:51.520 --> 0:23:54.240 live homicide investigation and other reporters. 0:23:54.280 --> 0:23:59.160 Why do you receive other people's brief of evidence documents 0:23:59.160 --> 0:23:59.960 in your own in blok? 0:24:00.680 --> 0:24:04.320 Then before you ask the questions of me, how about. 0:24:04.119 --> 0:24:07.320 You make sure that your own fucking bed, you're an 0:24:07.440 --> 0:24:09.359 in box, your own nurse is clean. 0:24:11.400 --> 0:24:15.720 Sent me documents, But there's a difference between receiving them 0:24:15.800 --> 0:24:18.760 and sharing them. And I'm just curious as to you. 0:24:19.480 --> 0:24:22.040 And will argue that point out like I did in 0:24:22.080 --> 0:24:24.000 a criminal trial or any other trial. 0:24:24.320 --> 0:24:26.280 There's no criminal trial because I don't even know if 0:24:26.280 --> 0:24:29.320 there's a criminal offense, but I am interested in why 0:24:29.359 --> 0:24:29.720 you didn't. 0:24:30.800 --> 0:24:31.680 I'm baiting. 0:24:32.800 --> 0:24:34.840