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Speaker 1: Oh you've done this before. Yeah, all good, okay, thanks you.

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Speaker 1: September twenty twenty one, you break the story police close

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Speaker 1: in on a new suspect, William Copp's confident they have

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Speaker 1: cracked the case. How did that come about?

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Speaker 2: So I bump into somebody and I've got to be

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Speaker 2: very careful, obviously is the source.

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Speaker 1: Mark Murray, or Moz to his friends, is the crime

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Speaker 1: editor at Sydney's Daily Telegraph newspaper. Moz is old school.

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Speaker 1: You'll often find him on the phone or in the pub,

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Speaker 1: usually halfway through telling a long story about Sydney's underworld.

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Speaker 1: And he's been working the crime beat in this city

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Speaker 1: for as long as I have been alive, and for

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Speaker 1: my money, Moz is the best crime reporter in New

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Speaker 1: South Wales.

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Speaker 2: I'll literally bump into somebody who is not a detective,

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Speaker 2: was not even based at Paramount of Police headquarters where

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Speaker 2: all the detectives are. I just want to establish that

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Speaker 2: this person somehow knew quite a lot about the new

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Speaker 2: way the investigation was going in the police. Person in

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Speaker 2: the police yes, okay, but not a detective. But anyway,

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Speaker 2: somebody in the police force who said, look, this is

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Speaker 2: what's happening now. I believe that William went over the balcony,

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Speaker 2: that the foster mother was involved, and quite a few

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Speaker 2: details full disclosure.

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Speaker 1: I like mos He and I go back where colleagues

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Speaker 1: and have been rivals, each trying to break bigger stories

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Speaker 1: for our different newspapers. And in the past couple of years,

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Speaker 1: I've overseen another podcast where Moz is one of the hosts.

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Speaker 2: And I'm paranoid. Like everybody, I didn't want to talk

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Speaker 2: on the phone this person. I didn't ring police because

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Speaker 2: I didn't want anyone having their phone records matched up

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Speaker 2: to when this story potentially comes out. So I was

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Speaker 2: in here and I I ran to Ben, you know,

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Speaker 2: the editor English. Yeah, And I told him this whole

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Speaker 2: story is mind blowing. This is probably the biggest mystery

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Speaker 2: in Australia currently, the biggest crime story mystery. And here

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Speaker 2: we have this massive new information on it. And I said,

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Speaker 2: I've got to confirm it, but I've got to be

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Speaker 2: careful how I go about it. And he said, okay.

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Speaker 2: And I'm still thinking, who the fuck do I ring here?

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Speaker 1: Right?

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Speaker 2: One? I don't want somebody shutting me down or but

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Speaker 2: I want to make sure I don't stuff up an

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Speaker 2: investigation like that is every crime report is primary. You

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Speaker 2: don't want to stuff up an investigation because one, you

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Speaker 2: don't want to see somebody get away with something. And

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Speaker 2: to no one's going to talk to you again.

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Speaker 1: And this scoop Mores is describing being it was always

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Speaker 1: going to get attention. It's the moment the police went

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Speaker 1: public saying they were looking at William Toole's foster mother

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Speaker 1: as a suspect. Only the way that happened, at least

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Speaker 1: as Mos tells it, this scoop was a stuff up,

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Speaker 1: just not his.

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Speaker 2: So I was in the office Ben and I and

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Speaker 2: he said, oh, maybe i'd make a call or two.

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Speaker 2: I go, yeah, right, And he comes out like an

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Speaker 2: hour two hours later, he said, I've run that past

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Speaker 2: and I don't know who. And he said, we're find

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Speaker 2: a runner. I said, you're sure it's not going to

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Speaker 2: stuff anybody up. He said, it's it's one hundred percent.

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Speaker 1: You're okay.

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Speaker 2: And I then made no more calls because I thought

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Speaker 2: it was one hundred percent. It was sweet. So I

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Speaker 2: wrote the story. Said to Benn, are we going to

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Speaker 2: run in a day or two? He said, oh, you

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Speaker 2: know what, let's just run up tomorrow and go okay.

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Speaker 2: I said, are you sure it's okay? He said, yeah, sure,

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Speaker 2: it's sweet. I'm thinking, well, I'm not going to ring

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Speaker 2: anyone because I know he says it's fine. So I

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Speaker 2: thought all the major players had been notified, right, investigators, everybody.

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Speaker 1: But everybody hadn't been notified that MOS's story was coming.

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Speaker 1: And that matters because we're talking about a live police

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Speaker 1: investigation into a missing child, meaning detectives are still working

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Speaker 1: the case. They're talking to witnesses, they're choosing what to

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Speaker 1: tell people and what not to tell them, and they

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Speaker 1: have covert surveillance running.

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Speaker 2: And in the end, we put it up at about

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Speaker 2: eight o'clock and so you published it and my phone

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Speaker 2: went nuts. And it's a turtle miscommunication somewhere along the

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Speaker 2: hierarchy chain.

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Speaker 1: So they didn't know the story was coming.

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Speaker 2: They didn't know the story.

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Speaker 1: So the cops in homicide, particularly running the investigation, the

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Speaker 1: investigation didn't know.

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Speaker 2: Didn't know. So that would be Dave ladlaw right, who's

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Speaker 2: now still in charge. He had no idea. Now I've

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Speaker 2: had known him again for years. It just meant that

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Speaker 2: everyone in homicide believed I'd broken the golden rule. You know,

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Speaker 2: potentially an investigation, that's the golden rule, and that is

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Speaker 2: the golden ruar.

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Speaker 1: So in this case, the cop running the investigation into

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Speaker 1: William's disappearance didn't know that you were going to run this.

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Speaker 1: His boss who's the head of homicide didn't know you

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Speaker 1: were going to run this. My understanding is the assistant

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Speaker 1: commissioner didn't know, and the relevant deputy commissioner didn't know either.

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Speaker 2: Yes, subsequently I found that out. Yeah, but sickening feeling.

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Speaker 2: It's really because this one that's my lifeblood, is your

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Speaker 2: reputation and your contacts, and there was anger, There was

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Speaker 2: serious anger.

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Speaker 1: So the question is who should be the target of

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Speaker 1: that anger. Who's blame for this stuff up that might

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Speaker 1: have damaged the William Tyrrell investigation?

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Speaker 2: Even to this day, people would like to know the

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Speaker 2: initial source.

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Speaker 1: But it's not just the initial source, is it. Because

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Speaker 1: the initial source with what you do, maybe has a

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Speaker 1: casual conversation with you, and that is your job, and

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Speaker 1: that's that happens. But there's also the secondary source who

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Speaker 1: confirms it to your editor. So there's two sources of

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Speaker 1: this league, which the.

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Speaker 2: More importantly saying it is Okay.

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Speaker 1: The thing about the story was it was pretty strong.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't you know. It starts off police zero in

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Speaker 1: on a new person of interest, fair enough, who they

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Speaker 1: believe is responsible for the death and disappearance of William Tyrell.

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Speaker 1: Police are now confident they will solve the mystery of

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Speaker 1: the disappearance. A new investigation has uncovered clues previously not explored.

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Speaker 1: And although at the start you're talking about a person

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Speaker 1: of interest, by midpoint through the article you're calling that

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Speaker 1: person a suspect. You're not naming them, but you're saying

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Speaker 1: the cops suspect this person is respective.

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Speaker 2: Wish we'd actually said that it's on the foster appearance now,

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Speaker 2: I think we probably could have gone with it.

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Speaker 1: It was pretty obvious who you were talking about. I mean,

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Speaker 1: everybody knew. Everybody did know, because as soon as Mozzy's

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Speaker 1: article is published, other reporters are calling the police force,

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Speaker 1: who do confirm their new suspect is William's foster mother.

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Speaker 3: Good afternoon, There have been major developments in the William

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Speaker 3: Terrell investigation today, and as we go to wear this afternoon,

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Speaker 3: this is what we know. The toddler's foster mother is

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Speaker 3: now the key person of interest in his disappearance.

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Speaker 1: The key person of interest, despite as we now know

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Speaker 1: from the inquest, the police having no forensic or witness

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Speaker 1: evidence to support that. And all of this attention also

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Speaker 1: explode what had actually been a careful, gradual strategy to

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Speaker 1: apply pressure to William's foster mother through other leaks to

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Speaker 1: the media and select interviews with chosen reporters.

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Speaker 4: So if anyone out there is thinking I might have

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Speaker 4: gotten away with this, what's your message?

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Speaker 1: They haven't like this Sky News interview with David Laidlaw,

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Speaker 1: the new lead detective.

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Speaker 2: You know what happened, don't you? You know who it is.

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Speaker 2: We have thoughts about what occurred to William, Yes, and

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Speaker 2: who was responsible?

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Speaker 1: Yes. The police strategy was to slowly ratchet up the

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Speaker 1: pressure while all the time the foster parents' house and

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Speaker 1: car and telephones are being recorded with covert surveillance. It's

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Speaker 1: exactly the same kind of tactics that led to the

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Speaker 1: downfall of the previous lead detective, Gary Jubilin. But Moz's

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Speaker 1: front page story blows up without warning, right in the

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Speaker 1: middle of this careful strategy.

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Speaker 2: I was told, in no uncertain terms, an explosion has

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Speaker 2: gone on. There is which hunts, there is anger, and

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Speaker 2: I can understand because this is a huge case. They're

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Speaker 2: trying to solve the case of a missing boy at

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Speaker 2: a little child, and no matter what we say, and

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Speaker 2: how no matter what they say, and that every case

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Speaker 2: is equal, every murder is equal, every it isn't emotion

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Speaker 2: gets you know, there's a little child, you know, And

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Speaker 2: so to have their strategy stuffed up innocently bye whoever,

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I take issue with that because, yeah, you may have

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Speaker 1: stuffed up their strategy innocently, because you, as a journalist,

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Speaker 1: to writing what you've been told and what you've been

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Speaker 1: told by someone in the police is good to go. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: But that person who your editor, Ben English spoke to.

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Speaker 2: He's SARTI spoken in more than one and I might

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Speaker 2: have been, and I've got to be you know, he

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Speaker 2: has he has sources that still amaze me.

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Speaker 1: Right, But that person who to have known that must

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Speaker 1: almost certainly have been in the police themselves and confirmed

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Speaker 1: it to Ben and said, yeah, you can go with that.

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Speaker 1: That person is not acting innocently.

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Speaker 2: No, And I want yeah, I can't answer that because

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Speaker 2: I don't know the person.

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Speaker 1: I spoke to Mozzy's editor, Ben English, and he's not

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Speaker 1: going to reveal his source, and I wouldn't expect him to.

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Speaker 1: But it's not really about Ben. It's about those people

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Speaker 1: caught up in the fallout.

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Speaker 2: And I've currently found out it didn't stuff up any investigation.

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Speaker 2: In fact, there was a media strategy almost in place

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Speaker 2: to use the telegraph exactly the way we did it,

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Speaker 2: except for it didn't match their timetable.

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Speaker 1: There is one other aspect to this in terms of

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Speaker 1: the fall out is that William's biological foster parents weren't

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Speaker 1: told this story was coming before it came, and there's

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Speaker 1: an element of emotional damage done by.

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Speaker 2: That, yeah, which again I didn't know. Well, I'd imagine

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Speaker 2: the foster parents who were target of the investigation. I thought,

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Speaker 2: when you're given the good to go, I would have

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Speaker 2: thought that there was something in place, and I think

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Speaker 2: that there still would have been saw something in their

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Speaker 2: house no matter what there were you. Yeah, so that

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Speaker 2: wouldn't have bagged that part up. The emotional to the

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Speaker 2: biological painchere. I can see where you're coming from, and

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Speaker 2: that's something I think we hadn't probably explored enough.

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Speaker 1: But I don't think it's on you. Moss says it's

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Speaker 1: taken him years to repair his reputation and his relationship

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Speaker 1: with some of the detectives in the homicide squad. So

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Speaker 1: he's another person who suffered at least a little in

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Speaker 1: the fallout from the way police have handled the William

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Speaker 1: Tyran investigation. And talking to Moz, I'm starting to think

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Speaker 1: how this is only the latest in a history of

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Speaker 1: leaks from the police force in this case, going right

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Speaker 1: back to the first raids on Bill Spedding, to Bill's arrest,

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Speaker 1: the details of what he was wrongly charged with, the

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Speaker 1: existence of other potential suspect that was leaked, as was

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Speaker 1: Gary Jubilin being taken off the investigation. And then there's

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Speaker 1: this leak about the police suddenly suspecting William's foster mother,

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Speaker 1: which will in turn be followed by another leak. Good evening.

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Speaker 5: We begin tonight with breaking news on one of Australia's

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Speaker 5: most baffling cases.

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Speaker 1: This time revealing that police have sent a brief of

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Speaker 1: evidence to the States Director of Public Prosecutions.

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Speaker 5: Nine News can reveal detectives now believe there's enough evidence

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Speaker 5: to charge the toddler's foster mother over his disappearance.

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Speaker 1: This news breaking in June last year, a day after

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Speaker 1: what would have been William's twelfth birthday.

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Speaker 2: Talking about leaks, that's the one that's caused more consternation

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Speaker 2: than anyone. That they had handed a brief to the DPP.

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Speaker 2: Now that was even a bigger leak because I think

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Speaker 2: only seven people knew, and I know there was an

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Speaker 2: internal investigation over there. So I think the reporter involved

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Speaker 2: in that, she's been sent to Coventry. I know it

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Speaker 2: actually feels because they're furious about that.

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Speaker 1: And if the police are furious, it's because these leaks

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Speaker 1: keep threatening to damage the investigation into who took three

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Speaker 1: year old William Tyrell, who kind of gets forgotten in

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Speaker 1: the storm of headlines and the internal politics in which

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Speaker 1: this whole case has played out over the past decade.

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Speaker 2: I think Tyrrell has no boundaries. It's a national It's

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Speaker 2: like one of those stories that captures the whole nation.

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Speaker 2: It just doesn't. It's not just a Sydney or Telegraph story,

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Speaker 2: don't you think. And certain reporters have become obsessed, haven't they.

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Speaker 1: I'm not innocent within this. I'm a reporter. I like leaks,

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Speaker 1: like being leaked to, But standing back, I can see

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Speaker 1: how innocent lives get caught up in the explosion when

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Speaker 1: these bombs go off on the front pages, or because

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Speaker 1: someone couldn't keep their mouth shut on a phone call

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Speaker 1: with a reporter or an editor. And I can see

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Speaker 1: how these leaks also feed the damage and suspicion surrounding

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Speaker 1: this investigation, as have other leaks which are more illicit

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Speaker 1: and more damaging and where the police are not the

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Speaker 1: only guilty party. From news dot com dot Au. This

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Speaker 1: is Witness William Tyrol episode ten. The suspect.

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Speaker 6: Had a higher Yeah great, oh thanks you interested?

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Speaker 7: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: This is a woman called Alana Smith speaking to another

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Speaker 1: colleague of mine, the journalist Caroline Overington, in twenty twenty one,

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Speaker 1: the same year MOS broke that story about police now

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Speaker 1: looking at William's foster mother.

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Speaker 8: All right, let's go it comes true.

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Speaker 1: Alana has some skin in the game here. She once

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Speaker 1: went to court arguing for the right to publicly identify

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Speaker 1: William Tyrol as a foster child when the government was

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Speaker 1: refusing to let that happen, which is partly why Caroline

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Speaker 1: wanted to talk to her.

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Speaker 9: It's just audio, it's a podcast, is just boys, boys.

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Speaker 1: That's not what interested me though, listening to this recording,

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Speaker 1: I'm interested in one particular moment.

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Speaker 8: We don't need to clear everything off, but do you

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Speaker 8: want to just move that computer?

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Speaker 1: Which happens while they're still setting up the interview, and

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Speaker 1: we might need this cheering.

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Speaker 6: Here's some stuff on news from the proof perfect, thank you.

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Speaker 1: But Alana says there's some stuff on here from the

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Speaker 1: brief and hands it over. The brief is the brief

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Speaker 1: of evidence, meaning all of the evidence the police have

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Speaker 1: gathered in this case for the inquest into William's disappearance,

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Speaker 1: and which somehow leaked, got into the papers and ended

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Speaker 1: up circling around the internet. And that matters because this

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Speaker 1: is evidence from a police investigation which today is still ongoing,

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Speaker 1: and these leaked documents include police statements and transcripts of

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Speaker 1: interviews with witnesses, including William's foster parents, and their phone

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Speaker 1: records and photographs marked protected and confidential, all of which,

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Speaker 1: if it becomes public, can only undermine the police and

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Speaker 1: the inquest and their chances of bringing to justice whoever

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Speaker 1: it was who took William. And Alana must know she's

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Speaker 1: not supposed to just hand this stuff over listen again.

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Speaker 10: There's some stuff on these from the proof perfect.

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Speaker 8: Thank you, but.

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Speaker 1: There, she says, but you don't know I have that.

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Speaker 1: Alana has her own take on William's disappearance. She's gone

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Speaker 1: online herself a lot, calling William's foster parents quote dirty

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Speaker 1: fucking parasites, and calling Gary Jubilin a corrupt, fucking motherfucker

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Speaker 1: and worse. I shouldn't need to say this, but there's

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Speaker 1: no evidence to back up her insults, and I'm only

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Speaker 1: mentioning them to demonstrate just how dirty and polluted everything

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Speaker 1: surrounding this case has got. So I called Alana, but

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Speaker 1: she didn't answer. Then she called me back, Hallo, Hello Dan,

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Speaker 1: Hi Alana, how are you doing? Yes?

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Speaker 10: Good, thank you. I just want to let you know

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Speaker 10: that I'm recording the conversation.

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Speaker 1: That's fine, you are happy if I record it as well.

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Speaker 1: Of course, Alana has written things about me online also.

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Speaker 1: Since starting this series, we've exchanged messages on Facebook in

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Speaker 1: which she's called me assy but definitely not classy. She's

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Speaker 1: called me a weak ass journo and that it's about

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Speaker 1: time I was brought into line.

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Speaker 10: This will be a one way conversation, but I'm all used, Dan.

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Speaker 1: When you say one way conversation, how do you.

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Speaker 10: Mean, Well, it'll be you talking because I truly have nothing,

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Speaker 10: honestly nothing to say to you. I've articulated my thoughts

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Speaker 10: and my feelings about what you and your current colleagues

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Speaker 10: are doing and how you are stewing, and I don't

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Speaker 10: give a fuck.

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Speaker 1: In Alana says, I'm skewing the facts.

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Speaker 10: The facts between within that brief of evidence.

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Speaker 6: Because there is nothing that I have further need to

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Speaker 6: say to you.

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Speaker 10: There isn't already abundantly clear within the documents.

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Speaker 11: Sure you're getting cliques, Sure you're getting paid, Sure you're hanging.

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Speaker 10: Out with the fucking bee boys, but your morals and.

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Speaker 7: Your ethics are in the fucking gutta and shame on you,

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Speaker 7: Dan Box.

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Speaker 1: Basically, Alana doesn't like the way we've made this podcast.

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Speaker 10: What is it that you fucking want from me? Apart

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Speaker 10: from the truth.

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Speaker 3: And I'm giving it to you.

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Speaker 6: I'd have you and Gary Jubilin in a quarter of

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Speaker 6: law in a fucking heartbeat.

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Speaker 1: She says, we're pursuing a narrative one that she does

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Speaker 1: not agree with.

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Speaker 11: Shame on you because you use every god.

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Speaker 7: Damn day and get out of bed and put your

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Speaker 7: fucking fancy pants on and continue to go down this

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Speaker 7: contractual sheep fuckery. And there's only one person to blame

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Speaker 7: apart from yourself. You you, you, yourself.

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Speaker 6: And yourself.

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Speaker 10: Can have nothing to say.

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Speaker 11: And the people that I'm going to say it to.

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Speaker 2: I said it online.

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Speaker 9: Actually I said shit about you on an open from

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Speaker 9: I went and said that.

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Speaker 6: Listen.

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Speaker 7: I hope we're recorded.

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Speaker 8: I truly hope we're recorded.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we are. Yeah you said you said you're recording,

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Speaker 1: and I am as well.

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Speaker 10: And I'll be a push for.

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Speaker 9: A fucking gondab inquiry one way or another, come hell

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Speaker 9: or high water.

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Speaker 1: Can I ask you a couple of things nation trial alone?

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Speaker 1: Can I ask you something?

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Speaker 7: Well, whether you can ask or I'll allow you to

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Speaker 7: ask me, whether I.

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Speaker 1: Yeah you one hundred percent, You don't have to answer.

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Speaker 1: I just need to ask. There's a couple of things

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Speaker 1: I'm interested in. You talked about putting things, putting things online.

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Speaker 1: You've you've obviously said a lot about William's foster parents.

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Speaker 1: You've said their murderers, you've said their pedophiles, and so on.

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Speaker 7: Yeh, sure we got taken a call over and got fucking.

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Speaker 10: Tried about it.

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Speaker 7: You know, I'll bean yeah, and we'll go.

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Speaker 6: Again, because fucking we'll go again.

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Speaker 9: If that's getting into court, pushing the boundaries is the

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Speaker 9: only fucking what.

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Speaker 1: You don't have any evidence of that.

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Speaker 7: How you got the fucking files? How I got the

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Speaker 7: fucking files.

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Speaker 1: That's actually my second question. That's the second thing I'm

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Speaker 1: interested in. You have shared documents from the brief of

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Speaker 1: evidence with journalists.

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Speaker 8: So what you're talking about.

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Speaker 1: I've got you on tape doing it, Alana, sure.

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Speaker 11: Sure, And if I have, then if I have, then

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Speaker 11: it's been in private.

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Speaker 10: And that's what journalists do.

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Speaker 1: But why have you shared documents from the kid? But

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Speaker 1: why did you share documents from the brief of evidence

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Speaker 1: in a live homicide and investigation?

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Speaker 7: The same reason I started a petition, the same reason

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Speaker 7: I told a Supreme Court judge to go fuck himself,

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Speaker 7: The same reason I continue to argue the point to

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Speaker 7: you in every other journo, the same reason why I

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Speaker 7: continue to tell you that you're a lie life scumbag

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Speaker 7: on a moral principle, because there's a fucking child missing

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Speaker 7: in state care.

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Speaker 1: So you shared those you shared those police documents because.

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Speaker 11: I don't give a shit.

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Speaker 10: You want to get litigious.

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Speaker 1: I'm not I'm definitely not threatening. I'm just trying to understand.

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Speaker 11: Quite okay for you to do that.

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Speaker 1: I definitely I'm not threatening. I've got no interest in

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Speaker 1: legal action. But I am trying to understand why you

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Speaker 1: would share documents, Why you'd share police documents from a

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Speaker 1: live homicide investigation and other reporters.

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Speaker 6: Why do you receive other people's brief of evidence documents

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Speaker 6: in your own in blok?

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Speaker 7: Then before you ask the questions of me, how about.

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Speaker 6: You make sure that your own fucking bed, you're an

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Speaker 6: in box, your own nurse is clean.

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Speaker 1: Sent me documents, But there's a difference between receiving them

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Speaker 1: and sharing them. And I'm just curious as to you.

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Speaker 9: And will argue that point out like I did in

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Speaker 9: a criminal trial or any other trial.

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Speaker 1: There's no criminal trial because I don't even know if

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Speaker 1: there's a criminal offense, but I am interested in why

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Speaker 1: you didn't.

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Speaker 6: I'm baiting.

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Speaker 10: It's baiting. This has gone along enough.

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Speaker 11: This is stupid, absolutely stupid, one way or another, regardless

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Speaker 11: what I said, regardless of who is guilty, what you're doing,

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Speaker 11: and the narrative in.

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Speaker 10: Which you're running is filthy.

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Speaker 8: That's it.

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Speaker 7: You want to get higher.

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Speaker 10: You want to understand why I've done certain things.

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Speaker 8: I've just given you.

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Speaker 7: I've just list.

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Speaker 10: You asked me a question, and I've given you.

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Speaker 9: An honest, tenant, ten point answer as to why I

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Speaker 9: do the things that.

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Speaker 1: I do it because you think it's in them Do

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Speaker 1: you think it's in the public interest?

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Speaker 7: Not for a dirty pay packet, Not for a dirty old.

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Speaker 10: Fucking paypacket there not to sell my soul, not to.

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Speaker 6: Get a fucking leg up in the media, fucking not

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Speaker 6: to not to get on jump onto the biggest fucking

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Speaker 6: case there is, to making the air for yourself in

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Speaker 6: your new job. I do everything that I do authentically

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Speaker 6: from my fucking heart because of those children.

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Speaker 1: Have you thought about the possible damage you might do

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Speaker 1: to the investigation by sharing those documents?

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Speaker 6: The investigation knows who I am, they know where I lived.

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Speaker 8: There's been nothing come at me.

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Speaker 9: What were the facts?

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Speaker 8: What were the context?

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Speaker 1: What was what?

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Speaker 7: Letst put it in context?

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Speaker 1: So is that why you shared them alone? So what

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Speaker 1: is that why you shared them so people will understand

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Speaker 1: the fact.

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Speaker 6: Probably not even about that, It's about the child.

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Speaker 1: By child Alana means, I think it's about William.

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Speaker 9: How many times have I said it's about the child and.

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Speaker 6: About child, about child, about child, about child, about child,

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Speaker 6: about child.

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Speaker 1: Why do you care so much about William?

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Speaker 6: Because I do because of what's happening to him, the

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Speaker 6: way in which it's happened, the ass covering that the

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Speaker 6: government do, the gas lighting that they do, the way

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Speaker 6: that the media in which cover it or don't cover it,

444
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:35,320
Speaker 6: the way in which the government and the Parliament use

445
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:39,520
Speaker 6: and abuse legislation to protect their own fucking goddamn mars.

446
00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:42,840
Speaker 6: There's a whole myriad of reasons why I want to

447
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:45,440
Speaker 6: be invested or why I am, apart from the fact

448
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,720
Speaker 6: that I too was a little William at one stage

449
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:51,720
Speaker 6: and fucking forcibly removed from my mother.

450
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:56,560
Speaker 1: Like William, Alana was taken from her birth family and

451
00:26:56,600 --> 00:27:00,960
Speaker 1: put into foster care. Her experience of that was awful,

452
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:04,119
Speaker 1: and I don't pretend to understand what she's been through.

453
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:08,040
Speaker 1: But she and I are going to have to agree

454
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:10,160
Speaker 1: to disagree on other things.

455
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 6: I do later at nights sometimes and I think to myself,

456
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:20,199
Speaker 6: Dan is an unredeemable, fucking low life prick. But I

457
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:23,360
Speaker 6: still don't understand why he's chosen the road that he has.

458
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:26,240
Speaker 1: So are you asking me why we're doing what we're doing.

459
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:30,080
Speaker 6: Why are you doing what you're doing with the narrative

460
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:31,840
Speaker 6: in which you're doing it, Dan.

461
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:34,879
Speaker 1: Look, the only narrative we're trying to tell is to

462
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:37,280
Speaker 1: look at the investigation from the beginning and what was

463
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:40,119
Speaker 1: done right and what was done wrong. That's been our

464
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:40,879
Speaker 1: starting point.

465
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 9: There needs to be an inquiry. What do you think

466
00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:44,440
Speaker 9: about an inquiry?

467
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:45,240
Speaker 8: Do on record?

468
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:48,920
Speaker 1: I'd love to see a public inquiry into this one

469
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:51,679
Speaker 1: because it's not really my job. My job is to

470
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:54,320
Speaker 1: report the facts and not to call for things.

471
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:56,840
Speaker 10: Why aren't you pushing an advocating for one?

472
00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:59,159
Speaker 1: Because I'm not an advocate. I'm a journalist and my

473
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:02,160
Speaker 1: job is to port the facts as best we can.

474
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:06,040
Speaker 1: It's not my job to You haven't been doing that,

475
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 1: you know, I promise you. We've been trying to listening back.

476
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:15,680
Speaker 1: I think that's a weak answer, So Alana, if you're listening,

477
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:19,240
Speaker 1: I would love to see a public inquiry into the

478
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:23,440
Speaker 1: William Tyran investigation. And ten years on with no answers

479
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:26,439
Speaker 1: about what happened to him, I think there should be

480
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:29,800
Speaker 1: an inquiry, and I know from speaking to them for

481
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 1: this podcast that Bill Spedding and Gary Jubilin they both

482
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:41,800
Speaker 1: think the same. There's one last thing I asked, Alana,

483
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 1: where did you get the brief of evidence? From? Alane?

484
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:47,960
Speaker 6: Listen, I've been a part.

485
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 9: I've been an advocate for the Biological Family for the alas.

486
00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:54,520
Speaker 1: I was told you. I was told you got them

487
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:55,840
Speaker 1: from the biological family.

488
00:28:57,600 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 9: Listen, I've done at all. Where did I get the

489
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:03,000
Speaker 9: brief of evidence? Where do I get any court documents?

490
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:05,040
Speaker 9: Where do I get any family information?

491
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:07,360
Speaker 1: So you got it from the biological family? Are you?

492
00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:08,200
Speaker 11: How dare you?

493
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:11,440
Speaker 9: Because I worked as an advocate for that fucking family

494
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:13,320
Speaker 9: and I continue to do that.

495
00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:16,720
Speaker 1: Look, it's no criticism, it's I'm curious. So you got

496
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:18,040
Speaker 1: it from the Biological Family.

497
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:19,320
Speaker 10: I'm saying I did.

498
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,120
Speaker 1: I'm not saying I'm told I was told you did.

499
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:24,840
Speaker 10: Sup questions because you saynd stupid.

500
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:29,040
Speaker 12: Is there anything else you wanted to say to me?

501
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:32,000
Speaker 6: What you fucking apart from all the fucks in and

502
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:34,960
Speaker 6: that you shoot fuckery and that that you're morally along

503
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:35,960
Speaker 6: with what you're doing now?

504
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 1: No, I I got all of that. Yeah, I got

505
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:44,920
Speaker 1: it But there is a problem here because I spoke

506
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:50,640
Speaker 1: to Natalie Collins, William's biological grandmother, who denies giving Alana

507
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:54,840
Speaker 1: the brief of evidence and says Alana is no longer

508
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 1: acting as an advocate for her family, and said some

509
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:03,000
Speaker 1: other things about Alana and about William's foster parents, which

510
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 1: I'm not going to repeat here because they're offensive and

511
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 1: there's no evidence to support them, just like the things

512
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:15,800
Speaker 1: Alana's been saying online about William's foster parents. Their insults

513
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 1: and they're not true. But now there are all these

514
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:25,760
Speaker 1: different voices, William's birth and foster families, the police, people

515
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:30,200
Speaker 1: who say they are advocates for something, those posting lies

516
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:35,200
Speaker 1: and abuse online, and reporters and editors who are all

517
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:40,840
Speaker 1: talking and sharing confidential information, getting louder and nastier in

518
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:45,240
Speaker 1: what they're saying to each other and online. Even before

519
00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:49,160
Speaker 1: that front page story about William's foster mother, she and

520
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:52,160
Speaker 1: her husband had become targets.

521
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 8: Cold, cold people. They are, how do they sleep at night?

522
00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:58,479
Speaker 8: William has been murdered, cocaine addict.

523
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:01,000
Speaker 2: I'm interested in seeing him and handcuffs.

524
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 1: William Tyrrell was tortured, raped and murdered.

525
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:08,560
Speaker 11: Motley crew of pitophile mates, pitophile rapist.

526
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:12,040
Speaker 6: Doc William has been murdered by his narcissistic psychopath foster

527
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:15,280
Speaker 6: mother and the corps, then dismembered and courted for disposal

528
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 6: by the besotted foster famer.

529
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:24,360
Speaker 1: These are lies, they're false, but they still added to

530
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 1: the pressure on the couple, who, throughout the time they

531
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:32,640
Speaker 1: were under police investigation, were also managing the fallout of

532
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:36,800
Speaker 1: William's disappearance on another child who was living with them

533
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 1: and who we can't identify for legal reasons. William's foster

534
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:46,440
Speaker 1: parents were also providing emergency and respite care for other

535
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:50,080
Speaker 1: children at the request of the state government's Department of

536
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:54,240
Speaker 1: Community and Justice. A court will later hear from one

537
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:58,719
Speaker 1: of the department staff saying William's foster parents were often

538
00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 1: called upon to help out when the department was in

539
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:05,440
Speaker 1: a jam, and the corporate view of the department was

540
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:10,200
Speaker 1: that they were very responsible and trustworthy parents. But these

541
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:14,760
Speaker 1: kids aren't always easy to look after, taken from their

542
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:18,440
Speaker 1: birth families by the state, often dealing with their own trauma,

543
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:23,640
Speaker 1: so that's pressure. At around the same time, the COVID

544
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:28,800
Speaker 1: pandemic shut Australia's borders and sent Sydney into lockdown. So

545
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:34,920
Speaker 1: that's pressure. Then in December twenty twenty, Williams foster nana died.

546
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:39,400
Speaker 1: William's foster parents suspected a cop who turned up at

547
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 1: the funeral was wearing a wire, and they're not wrong

548
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 1: about being under surveillance. The police put five listening devices

549
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:50,560
Speaker 1: and two cameras in place in the foster parents' home,

550
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 1: plus intercepts on their mobile phones, and these run for

551
00:32:55,040 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 1: nearly a full year, meaning in total something over sixty

552
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 1: thousand hours of surveillance, from which the cops gather over

553
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:11,080
Speaker 1: one thousand hours of recordings. Among them, the police record

554
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:15,680
Speaker 1: William's foster parents arranging for someone to place dummy bids

555
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:20,320
Speaker 1: when they sell their homer auction, which frankly is stupid

556
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:24,640
Speaker 1: and greedy and illegal, but it happens, and the cops

557
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:29,880
Speaker 1: will charge them with dishonestly obtain financial advantage or cause

558
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:35,440
Speaker 1: disadvantage by deception, which carries a maximum ten year prison sentence.

559
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:40,959
Speaker 1: So that's pressure. Only the cops later withdraw this and

560
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:44,040
Speaker 1: the couple plead guilty to a lesser charge and a

561
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:45,719
Speaker 1: fined three thousand dollars.

562
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:49,000
Speaker 7: It must feel like the police are hounding you.

563
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:52,080
Speaker 8: You're not going to make any comments. Thank you. Did

564
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:55,680
Speaker 8: you have anything to do with William's disappearance. I'm not

565
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:57,040
Speaker 8: going to make any comments, thank you.

566
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:03,720
Speaker 1: Listening to vices also record arguments between William's foster parents

567
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:07,760
Speaker 1: and the child, a teenager. I can't play those recordings

568
00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:12,160
Speaker 1: for legal reasons because the police charged William's foster parents

569
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:13,640
Speaker 1: over these recordings.

570
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:17,160
Speaker 2: Also, are you disgusted at hearing how you spoke to

571
00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:17,799
Speaker 2: that little girl?

572
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:21,000
Speaker 1: Do you see how bad a look this is given

573
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:26,320
Speaker 1: your a person of interest in William's disappearance. I've sat

574
00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:30,359
Speaker 1: in court listening to these recordings more than once, and

575
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:35,880
Speaker 1: their unpleasant listening. In the worst, you hear disembodied voices.

576
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:39,760
Speaker 1: It takes a while to work out it's a child.

577
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:44,239
Speaker 1: The child shouts no, go away, go away. There is

578
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:49,919
Speaker 1: a long, indistinct drawn out crying. William's foster mother says,

579
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:54,160
Speaker 1: get up, stand up, stand up. Then she asks the

580
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:57,920
Speaker 1: child where did you put the wooden spoon. The child

581
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:03,800
Speaker 1: says it's behind there. No, please, no, The foster mother says,

582
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 1: move your hand. There's the sound of an impact. She says, sit.

583
00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:16,719
Speaker 1: You can hear the child crying. It sounds bad, and

584
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:20,520
Speaker 1: it is bad. In court on either side, I can

585
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:26,160
Speaker 1: sense the other journalists feel revolted, and I do too.

586
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:30,360
Speaker 1: But it also sounds like a family that's not working,

587
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:44,120
Speaker 1: where people are breaking under pressure. Also listening in the

588
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:48,840
Speaker 1: courtroom is the former lead detective Gary Jublin. And during

589
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:51,680
Speaker 1: a break here and I go outside and we talk

590
00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:56,440
Speaker 1: about what we just heard. What did you make of that?

591
00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:59,280
Speaker 13: The two recordings that were applied.

592
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:00,719
Speaker 1: I did know this.

593
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 13: You listen to that recording that's confronting, there's a child screaming,

594
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 13: But it was a child screaming. It wasn't There was

595
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:10,160
Speaker 13: no it wasn't someone that had lost their temper. It

596
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:13,480
Speaker 13: wasn't the adult screaming irrationally. It was a child screaming.

597
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:15,879
Speaker 1: Now, yeah, but a child could be screaming because you're

598
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:17,240
Speaker 1: really hurting that child.

599
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:18,440
Speaker 13: That didn't sound like that.

600
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:22,680
Speaker 1: I we listened to that twice. The first time I

601
00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:25,960
Speaker 1: listened to that, and I thought, that sounds really bad.

602
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:29,440
Speaker 1: That sounds like a child in absolute distress.

603
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:32,440
Speaker 13: I thought it was very interesting, and we only bearing

604
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:34,640
Speaker 13: your mind. We heard a very small snippet, which is

605
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:39,880
Speaker 13: obviously what the prosecution want as the worst snippet.

606
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:40,480
Speaker 1: I'm going to call the police.

607
00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:43,399
Speaker 13: That was a child that was contained, not a child

608
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:47,000
Speaker 13: that was in pain or injured. Then it just escalated,

609
00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:48,560
Speaker 13: but the child escalated it.

610
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:51,359
Speaker 1: We might have to agree to disagree on that. Yeah,

611
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:54,960
Speaker 1: I heard a parent going off with their child and

612
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:59,759
Speaker 1: a child at a distress, screaming and screaming. But if

613
00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:03,360
Speaker 1: you recorded, I don't actually for very comfortable sites. But

614
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:06,200
Speaker 1: if you recorded some of the of the worst conversations

615
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:09,560
Speaker 1: I've had with my kids, they might not have sounded much.

616
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:12,920
Speaker 13: I would say the same thing then, And I raised

617
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:16,400
Speaker 13: my children in a house and no violence or threats

618
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:17,319
Speaker 13: or whatsoever.

619
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:22,440
Speaker 1: The police charge William's foster mother with assault, and she

620
00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:26,960
Speaker 1: pleads guilty. She also pleads guilty to a second assault

621
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:30,880
Speaker 1: charge over a kick on the same child, which happens

622
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:35,280
Speaker 1: during another argument where the child was going to kick

623
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:39,120
Speaker 1: another much younger child who the family were looking after.

624
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:43,120
Speaker 1: The foster mother kicks the older child to stop her,

625
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:47,040
Speaker 1: then says, now you know how it feels. Do you

626
00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:51,320
Speaker 1: think you want to make that decision again? The older

627
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:55,680
Speaker 1: child cries, and later on a telephone intercept, the foster

628
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:59,960
Speaker 1: mother tells a friend, I'm ashamed. I can't believe it happened,

629
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:04,399
Speaker 1: but I lost it. In another phone call the same day,

630
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:07,919
Speaker 1: she says, I'm not used to being like this. I'm

631
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:12,200
Speaker 1: not coping. The problem is we've got this investigation hanging

632
00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:16,000
Speaker 1: over our heads. The police believe we did something to William.

633
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:19,120
Speaker 1: How do I live with that? How do I live

634
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:23,480
Speaker 1: being looked at? When the foster of the checks the

635
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:28,000
Speaker 1: elder child later, the kick doesn't leave a mark, But

636
00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:33,879
Speaker 1: all the time the cops are listening. One court will

637
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:38,239
Speaker 1: later hear the detectives knew about this first assault with

638
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:42,880
Speaker 1: the spoon as early as the next day because they're listening.

639
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:47,000
Speaker 1: But they don't remove the child. In fact, they leave

640
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:50,560
Speaker 1: that child living with William's foster parents for almost a

641
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:56,319
Speaker 1: full year after And you have to ask, if the

642
00:38:56,400 --> 00:39:00,800
Speaker 1: police really believe the child is in danger, why wait

643
00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:05,840
Speaker 1: so long? And there are other recordings for which the

644
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:11,879
Speaker 1: detectives investigating William's disappearance will charge the foster parents with intimidation,

645
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:16,799
Speaker 1: but where the magistrate hearing the case will say she's

646
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:21,360
Speaker 1: listened to the entire recordings and will say those parts

647
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:24,840
Speaker 1: that were played in court have not been put into

648
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:29,279
Speaker 1: their proper context by the prosecution, and that the transcript

649
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:33,920
Speaker 1: of the recordings provided by the prosecution doesn't always match

650
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:38,400
Speaker 1: the words that she heard on the recordings, and she'll

651
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:43,320
Speaker 1: say it can hardly be said the alleged intimidation was continuous,

652
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:48,200
Speaker 1: and that, having listened repeatedly to the whole of the recordings,

653
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:52,640
Speaker 1: she views the child's call for help as calls for

654
00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:56,640
Speaker 1: help with cleaning her room, a frustrated young girl at

655
00:39:56,680 --> 00:40:00,000
Speaker 1: the end of her tether. And the magistrate will say

656
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:03,560
Speaker 1: the recordings aren't nice, but they don't go far enough

657
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:09,360
Speaker 1: to demonstrate criminal intent to intimidate. And it's also true

658
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:13,400
Speaker 1: that in court we hear only minutes or at most,

659
00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:17,040
Speaker 1: I think a couple of hours of the thousand or

660
00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:22,279
Speaker 1: more hours the police recorded. But outside one of the

661
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:25,799
Speaker 1: court hearings, the police prosecutor will come out and he'll

662
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:29,200
Speaker 1: walk over and start talking to the reporters who are

663
00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:33,480
Speaker 1: sitting about to file their stories, and the reporters will

664
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:36,919
Speaker 1: say the tapes sound awful, and the prosecutor will say,

665
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:39,960
Speaker 1: how he has kids, and the first time he listened

666
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:43,319
Speaker 1: to them, he was chain smoking and drinking wine. And

667
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:46,440
Speaker 1: he'll say, there's a damn sight more that I can't

668
00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:49,319
Speaker 1: share with you, and he'll say it would have been

669
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:52,200
Speaker 1: easier for him to close the court so the hearing

670
00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:55,200
Speaker 1: took place in private, but that it's in the interests

671
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:59,239
Speaker 1: of justice for people to hear this, And every day

672
00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:04,120
Speaker 1: the detectives investigating William's disappearance will be in the court room,

673
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:08,560
Speaker 1: despite the fact that these offenses have nothing to do

674
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:12,520
Speaker 1: with what happened to William and took place years after

675
00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:16,560
Speaker 1: he disappeared. And at one point the police prosecutor will

676
00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:20,600
Speaker 1: say in court that this case isn't about William Tyrrell.

677
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:25,640
Speaker 1: But if it's not, and it's only about a kick

678
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:30,160
Speaker 1: on a different child, then why is the strike Force here?

679
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:35,880
Speaker 1: And later that same police prosecutor will turn up at

680
00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:40,839
Speaker 1: the inquest hearing into William's disappearance, sitting with the detectives

681
00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:46,799
Speaker 1: and talking to the police lawyers because really, these other

682
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:52,720
Speaker 1: charges have everything to do with the investigation into William's disappearance.

683
00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:57,000
Speaker 1: One of the strike Force detectives, Andrew Lonegan, will later

684
00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:02,000
Speaker 1: say this in court, saying he thinks they quote go

685
00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:06,799
Speaker 1: to the character of propensity of violence to children. But

686
00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:12,080
Speaker 1: most of the charges the police bring against William's parents

687
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:16,399
Speaker 1: end with not guilty verdicts. And the couple are now

688
00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:18,040
Speaker 1: appealing others.

689
00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:25,200
Speaker 14: A major blow for police, a major victory for their

690
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:30,120
Speaker 14: latest target, William Tyrrell's foster mother leaving court and overwhelmed

691
00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:32,280
Speaker 14: after the magistrate let her.

692
00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:37,520
Speaker 1: Off not guilty. Isn't really a major victory?

693
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:40,960
Speaker 7: How has the pressure been these past few years?

694
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:47,320
Speaker 1: The pressure continues. The detectives visit the foster mother's family

695
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:51,880
Speaker 1: and friends, asking questions had they ever seen her angry

696
00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:56,600
Speaker 1: as a parent? Ever seen her lose control? The police

697
00:42:56,640 --> 00:43:01,759
Speaker 1: investigation morphs into a joint investigation with something called the

698
00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:06,160
Speaker 1: New South Wales Crime Commission, which was set up to prevent,

699
00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:12,080
Speaker 1: disrupt and reduce the incidents of organized and other serious crime.

700
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:17,680
Speaker 1: The Crime Commission works in secret. You actually can't tell

701
00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:21,480
Speaker 1: anybody you've been called there to give evidence, and it

702
00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:26,800
Speaker 1: has unrival powers. It can force people to give evidence,

703
00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:32,560
Speaker 1: make them answer questions. In October twenty twenty one, two

704
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:37,360
Speaker 1: of the detectives visit William's foster mother at home to

705
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:40,480
Speaker 1: give her an order that she's to face questions at

706
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:44,080
Speaker 1: the Crime Commission. A court will later hear how one

707
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:48,040
Speaker 1: of those two men, who's a short, red faced detective

708
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:53,320
Speaker 1: called Andrew lonegan tells William's foster mother it's not personal

709
00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:58,200
Speaker 1: and we're not here to fucking bluff. The other detective,

710
00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:02,759
Speaker 1: who is a big, swaggering man called Scott Jamison, tells her,

711
00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:06,480
Speaker 1: you'll have to live with it. We aren't guessing. We

712
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:10,520
Speaker 1: know why, we know how, we know where he is.

713
00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:16,160
Speaker 1: William's foster mother says, I'm actually trying. I'm trying to breathe.

714
00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:20,840
Speaker 1: You're actually now saying I tried to hurt William. Andrew

715
00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:25,440
Speaker 1: Lonegan says, we're not saying you hurt him. Scott Jamieson

716
00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:29,600
Speaker 1: says again, we're saying we know why it happened, we

717
00:44:29,719 --> 00:44:33,359
Speaker 1: know how it happened, and we know where he is.

718
00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:39,720
Speaker 1: But we know from the inquest that the police don't

719
00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:43,800
Speaker 1: know those things. They have no forensic or witness evidence

720
00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:48,640
Speaker 1: of what happened to William. Andrew Lonegan will later say

721
00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:53,040
Speaker 1: in court that he was telling the truth during this exchange.

722
00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:59,799
Speaker 1: Inside the crime Commission, William's foster mother is questioned over

723
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:05,680
Speaker 1: two days. She's asked over and over and over did

724
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:10,680
Speaker 1: she have anything to do with William's disappearance, and over

725
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:18,680
Speaker 1: and over she says no, while William's foster mother is

726
00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:21,960
Speaker 1: giving this evidence. The child, who's been living with her

727
00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:25,719
Speaker 1: and her husband, is at school. A detective from the

728
00:45:25,719 --> 00:45:30,799
Speaker 1: Strikeforce arrives without warning. The child doesn't know why the

729
00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:34,640
Speaker 1: detective is there. She thinks maybe it's to do with William.

730
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:37,760
Speaker 1: The detective takes the child from class for an interview,

731
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:41,960
Speaker 1: asking her seven hundred and fifty one questions, which a

732
00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:46,320
Speaker 1: magistrate will later describe as being of a patently leading nature,

733
00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:51,239
Speaker 1: such as, has William's foster father ever hurt you? Has

734
00:45:51,239 --> 00:45:54,680
Speaker 1: anyone ever put you in time out? Has he ever

735
00:45:54,719 --> 00:45:56,920
Speaker 1: grabbed your neck when you tried to get out of

736
00:45:57,000 --> 00:46:01,279
Speaker 1: time out? When was that? She says, she doesn't know

737
00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:06,680
Speaker 1: that child will never go home to William's foster parents.

738
00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:10,240
Speaker 1: The next day, she'll call a family friend and leave

739
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:15,919
Speaker 1: this message, which we've asked someone else to read out, And.

740
00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:18,919
Speaker 4: That's alle else's house, a foster home, and I want

741
00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:19,799
Speaker 4: to go to your house.

742
00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:20,799
Speaker 2: And of this one.

743
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:25,680
Speaker 1: I've seen emails from detectives on the Strikeforce to state

744
00:46:25,719 --> 00:46:29,640
Speaker 1: government officials saying they don't want this child to have

745
00:46:29,719 --> 00:46:35,040
Speaker 1: any contact with William's foster family or friends. The police

746
00:46:35,160 --> 00:46:39,919
Speaker 1: also take out an apprehended violence order preventing contact even

747
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:44,359
Speaker 1: phone calls. It's not certain if their Christmas presents are

748
00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:49,160
Speaker 1: passed on to her. And it's been years now, during

749
00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:54,080
Speaker 1: which time this child must have gone online and seen

750
00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:59,239
Speaker 1: what people have written about William's foster parents. I've got

751
00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:02,760
Speaker 1: a daughter around the same age. I look at her

752
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:07,479
Speaker 1: and I can't imagine what being treated like this would

753
00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:10,640
Speaker 1: do to her. So when I look at all the

754
00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:14,879
Speaker 1: people who've been caught up in the investigation into William's disappearance,

755
00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:20,520
Speaker 1: this child is the first person I think of, and

756
00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:26,160
Speaker 1: I find myself actually hoping the police are right about

757
00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:31,040
Speaker 1: what happened to William, because at least then what's happened

758
00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:36,839
Speaker 1: to this child is justified, because if the police are

759
00:47:36,920 --> 00:47:41,920
Speaker 1: not right, then the damage done to this child is

760
00:47:42,120 --> 00:47:43,480
Speaker 1: just too great.

761
00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:49,560
Speaker 8: We were just a regular family.

762
00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:54,560
Speaker 1: This is that child's cousin. Her aunt is William's foster mother.

763
00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:57,120
Speaker 1: Tell me about William. When did you first meet him?

764
00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:05,880
Speaker 15: I think it was not long after he came into

765
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:16,560
Speaker 15: their care. He was only a baby. I mostly remember

766
00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:21,600
Speaker 15: him as more of a toddler. He was full of energy.

767
00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:24,880
Speaker 15: My nan I would always say he was full of beans,

768
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:31,480
Speaker 15: that was her saying, And he was just happy and giggly.

769
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:34,560
Speaker 15: He would run around the house when we were there

770
00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:38,480
Speaker 15: for occasions, being just super excited to see people and

771
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:41,080
Speaker 15: the buzz that was happening because it was a Christmas

772
00:48:41,200 --> 00:48:46,320
Speaker 15: or a birthday. I looked after him. One time I

773
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:50,120
Speaker 15: baby sat for a few hours in an evening and

774
00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:52,520
Speaker 15: he would want to play monkey in the bed when.

775
00:48:52,440 --> 00:48:53,400
Speaker 8: I put him to bed.

776
00:48:54,880 --> 00:48:57,600
Speaker 1: There was a girl as well, who we can't name.

777
00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:02,760
Speaker 1: How do you remember her from that time?

778
00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:06,560
Speaker 8: She would double on him when he wanted to play

779
00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:07,520
Speaker 8: monkey in the bed.

780
00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:11,240
Speaker 14: And.

781
00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:15,680
Speaker 15: She was just saying she loved, just loved, loved, loved

782
00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:21,880
Speaker 15: when we came over, loved to see family, wanted to play.

783
00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:27,839
Speaker 8: She was still pretty young then as well.

784
00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:32,280
Speaker 1: Would you say they were a happy family.

785
00:49:33,640 --> 00:49:33,960
Speaker 8: Yes?

786
00:49:35,120 --> 00:49:41,719
Speaker 1: Absolutely, This was before William went missing and the police investigation.

787
00:49:43,239 --> 00:49:47,600
Speaker 1: Obviously we both know what happened to Well, no, neither,

788
00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:52,160
Speaker 1: we don't know what happened to William. William went missing.

789
00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:54,640
Speaker 1: You remember that.

790
00:49:57,719 --> 00:50:02,520
Speaker 15: I found out via Facebook. I was studying and what

791
00:50:02,640 --> 00:50:03,920
Speaker 15: I was meant to be studying, and I was on

792
00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:06,719
Speaker 15: Facebook and I saw the picture that came up from

793
00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:10,080
Speaker 15: I think New South Wales Police that there was a

794
00:50:10,080 --> 00:50:16,360
Speaker 15: missing boy. And I remember thinking no, it can't be.

795
00:50:16,640 --> 00:50:19,600
Speaker 15: But I don't think I understood the gravity at that

796
00:50:19,840 --> 00:50:24,640
Speaker 15: moment of what was happening. That took days, I think,

797
00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:28,120
Speaker 15: to realize. And I went up there shortly.

798
00:50:27,840 --> 00:50:29,280
Speaker 4: After how long after?

799
00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:33,200
Speaker 8: I think it took me a couple of days to get.

800
00:50:33,080 --> 00:50:36,759
Speaker 15: Up there, And then I saw my uncle and my

801
00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:44,600
Speaker 15: aunt and it became apparent that this was h a

802
00:50:44,640 --> 00:50:48,160
Speaker 15: real situation and it wasn't good.

803
00:50:53,000 --> 00:50:57,200
Speaker 1: And in the years since then, you stayed close to

804
00:50:58,040 --> 00:50:58,520
Speaker 1: your cousin.

805
00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:10,000
Speaker 4: Yes, how was she going?

806
00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:17,520
Speaker 15: This is probably really bad? But I always tried to

807
00:51:17,680 --> 00:51:26,520
Speaker 15: like not focus on William. I don't know, It's trauma

808
00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:30,600
Speaker 15: is a difficult thing for a kid to process. So

809
00:51:30,680 --> 00:51:35,759
Speaker 15: my relationship was always to just treat her as I

810
00:51:35,800 --> 00:51:37,480
Speaker 15: had always done, and try.

811
00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:40,480
Speaker 8: And not.

812
00:51:42,239 --> 00:51:46,000
Speaker 15: Highlight the trauma that had happened in her life, and

813
00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:51,400
Speaker 15: to give her the most normal relationship with people. So

814
00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:56,600
Speaker 15: we didn't really talk about it. I just tried to

815
00:51:56,640 --> 00:52:01,200
Speaker 15: carry on and give her, you know, just that normalacy.

816
00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:07,960
Speaker 12: Can I maybe skip forward in time, because obviously you

817
00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:10,960
Speaker 12: would have sent the newspapers the same way everyone saw

818
00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:15,239
Speaker 12: the newspapers about the police having a new suspect.

819
00:52:15,640 --> 00:52:18,920
Speaker 15: Yeah, But then I was contacted by the police, and

820
00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:21,880
Speaker 15: can you tell me what happened. I received an email

821
00:52:21,960 --> 00:52:25,479
Speaker 15: from my dad telling me to contact these detectives because

822
00:52:25,480 --> 00:52:29,120
Speaker 15: they wanted to speak to me. I had a formal,

823
00:52:29,520 --> 00:52:38,720
Speaker 15: an informal telephone conversation with two detectives and seemed very casual,

824
00:52:38,840 --> 00:52:42,479
Speaker 15: very kind of almost lighthearted to start with. They asked

825
00:52:42,520 --> 00:52:47,560
Speaker 15: me what I thought had happened, and they asked me

826
00:52:47,600 --> 00:52:51,680
Speaker 15: what my Nana thought had happened. And you know, Nana

827
00:52:51,800 --> 00:52:55,799
Speaker 15: has always been the same, like she'd only ever really

828
00:52:55,840 --> 00:52:59,839
Speaker 15: thought whoever they had just you know, recently highlighted as

829
00:52:59,840 --> 00:53:05,040
Speaker 15: a suspect might be the person. And then they just

830
00:53:05,080 --> 00:53:06,759
Speaker 15: went to, well, what do you think do you think

831
00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:10,239
Speaker 15: he was just plucked out of thin air? And I

832
00:53:10,280 --> 00:53:14,080
Speaker 15: think they suggested that aliens had beamed him up, and

833
00:53:14,120 --> 00:53:17,920
Speaker 15: I said, well, obviously not. And then they were asking

834
00:53:17,960 --> 00:53:24,279
Speaker 15: me about my aunt and uncle specifically and how they

835
00:53:24,320 --> 00:53:30,799
Speaker 15: were with William and my cousin, and they tried to lead,

836
00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:34,480
Speaker 15: well did they try to leave me? They tried to

837
00:53:34,520 --> 00:53:39,640
Speaker 15: suggest that children can misbehave and how my aunt and

838
00:53:39,719 --> 00:53:43,600
Speaker 15: uncle managed that, and I started to realize that they

839
00:53:44,080 --> 00:53:48,400
Speaker 15: were actually looking at them, and I asked them that

840
00:53:49,320 --> 00:53:54,359
Speaker 15: and they said, yes, how.

841
00:53:54,360 --> 00:53:55,239
Speaker 1: Did you feel about that?

842
00:53:56,280 --> 00:54:01,759
Speaker 15: Shook It really just shook me. I couldn't believe it,

843
00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:06,600
Speaker 15: and I was shaking, and I got off the phone

844
00:54:06,640 --> 00:54:10,759
Speaker 15: and I think I screamed into the air because it's

845
00:54:10,840 --> 00:54:13,920
Speaker 15: just it was so frustrating the way that they had

846
00:54:15,160 --> 00:54:22,399
Speaker 15: constructed this conversation without I suppose being I mean, they're

847
00:54:22,400 --> 00:54:24,440
Speaker 15: the police, They're not going to be very transparent in

848
00:54:24,480 --> 00:54:27,640
Speaker 15: situations like that. But I feel like they'd led me

849
00:54:27,719 --> 00:54:35,080
Speaker 15: down a path. And I called my aunt immediately after,

850
00:54:36,600 --> 00:54:40,880
Speaker 15: and I said, they're looking at you and Nana. Actually

851
00:54:40,920 --> 00:54:43,399
Speaker 15: at that point they were suggesting that Nana had something

852
00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:46,680
Speaker 15: to do with it as well, and they were asking

853
00:54:46,719 --> 00:54:49,560
Speaker 15: me about her death and whether she'd said anything on

854
00:54:49,600 --> 00:54:54,040
Speaker 15: her deathbed, and you know, things that just really it

855
00:54:54,120 --> 00:54:56,000
Speaker 15: was an upsetting conversation.

856
00:54:56,400 --> 00:54:59,200
Speaker 8: So I think that's what they were trying to do.

857
00:54:59,200 --> 00:55:05,560
Speaker 15: I think they were trying to at all the cage.

858
00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:07,000
Speaker 1: And how did your aunt respond when you told her that?

859
00:55:10,840 --> 00:55:13,480
Speaker 15: To be honest, it seemed like it was the first

860
00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:19,480
Speaker 15: time that she'd heard that, and she was so upset

861
00:55:19,520 --> 00:55:21,640
Speaker 15: for a number of reasons, but for the most part,

862
00:55:21,719 --> 00:55:26,200
Speaker 15: she was upset the fact that they were actually just

863
00:55:26,719 --> 00:55:31,319
Speaker 15: not even looking for William. If they were looking at her,

864
00:55:31,400 --> 00:55:35,920
Speaker 15: I meant they were wasting their time, that they actually

865
00:55:36,320 --> 00:55:39,359
Speaker 15: didn't have any proper leads, that they actually didn't have

866
00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:43,080
Speaker 15: any idea of what that had happened to William, and

867
00:55:43,120 --> 00:55:46,080
Speaker 15: that I think it just all hope just felt like

868
00:55:46,160 --> 00:55:49,520
Speaker 15: it had gone.

869
00:55:50,040 --> 00:55:53,160
Speaker 1: Around the time William's fostermother was facing questions at the

870
00:55:53,160 --> 00:55:57,720
Speaker 1: crime Commission, the police seized a car, a gray Masda III,

871
00:55:58,320 --> 00:56:02,760
Speaker 1: that used to be owned by Williemiam's foster Nana. William's

872
00:56:02,760 --> 00:56:06,040
Speaker 1: foster mother had told police she drove that car to

873
00:56:06,160 --> 00:56:09,680
Speaker 1: look for him on the morning when William was reported missing.

874
00:56:10,840 --> 00:56:14,400
Speaker 8: The police just seized it one day. They just turned up.

875
00:56:14,480 --> 00:56:20,080
Speaker 15: It was at my partner's parents' house, and they just

876
00:56:20,120 --> 00:56:24,960
Speaker 15: turned up with a cameraman and a tow truck.

877
00:56:26,200 --> 00:56:26,920
Speaker 8: And took it.

878
00:56:27,120 --> 00:56:29,200
Speaker 1: And the cameraman who turned up with the tow truck

879
00:56:30,040 --> 00:56:35,400
Speaker 1: was to film themselves seizing the car. Yes, And did

880
00:56:35,400 --> 00:56:37,480
Speaker 1: you ever see the footage that they took of themselves

881
00:56:37,480 --> 00:56:38,480
Speaker 1: seizing the car.

882
00:56:39,239 --> 00:56:40,440
Speaker 8: When it aired on the news.

883
00:56:40,520 --> 00:56:44,600
Speaker 1: Yes, And we told that was going to be released

884
00:56:44,600 --> 00:56:55,400
Speaker 1: to the media. That footage of the car being seized

885
00:56:55,800 --> 00:56:59,320
Speaker 1: was sent to journalists around the same time as police

886
00:56:59,440 --> 00:57:04,240
Speaker 1: launched the latest huge forensic search of the area around

887
00:57:04,320 --> 00:57:08,040
Speaker 1: where William went missing. It's carefully stage managed.

888
00:57:09,120 --> 00:57:15,120
Speaker 14: David Laidlaw Laidlaw Detective, Chief Inspector at the homicide Squad.

889
00:57:15,760 --> 00:57:19,800
Speaker 1: The police film themselves at work and send this footage

890
00:57:20,120 --> 00:57:21,440
Speaker 1: to the TV stations.

891
00:57:22,120 --> 00:57:25,440
Speaker 14: We are here today at Kendall in relation to the

892
00:57:25,480 --> 00:57:30,920
Speaker 14: circumstances of surrounding William missing from this residents seven years ago.

893
00:57:31,440 --> 00:57:34,600
Speaker 14: The investigative team is here together with the local detectives

894
00:57:34,880 --> 00:57:38,640
Speaker 14: and also with the Fornzy personnel to have another look

895
00:57:38,640 --> 00:57:41,760
Speaker 14: at the scene here and also the area around Kendall.

896
00:57:45,560 --> 00:57:49,160
Speaker 1: This search for evidence in the car and outside Kendall

897
00:57:49,760 --> 00:57:55,080
Speaker 1: takes place months after that front page story saying police

898
00:57:55,200 --> 00:58:00,280
Speaker 1: are confident they've cracked the case, and those detectives told

899
00:58:00,320 --> 00:58:04,200
Speaker 1: William's foster mother, we know why it happened, we know

900
00:58:04,720 --> 00:58:07,800
Speaker 1: how it happened, and we know where he is.

901
00:58:17,280 --> 00:58:18,400
Speaker 8: They're looking for evidence.

902
00:58:20,200 --> 00:58:21,440
Speaker 1: So how long did they have the car for?

903
00:58:22,160 --> 00:58:25,200
Speaker 15: Over twelve months? They said it had to go to

904
00:58:25,240 --> 00:58:30,760
Speaker 15: the panel beater and they sent me through the panel

905
00:58:30,800 --> 00:58:31,520
Speaker 15: beater's report.

906
00:58:33,320 --> 00:58:36,640
Speaker 1: So they've done enough work to the car that it

907
00:58:36,680 --> 00:58:39,920
Speaker 1: had to be substantially repaired afterwards.

908
00:58:40,280 --> 00:58:44,080
Speaker 15: Yeah, but it seems to me that almost every panel

909
00:58:44,280 --> 00:58:45,800
Speaker 15: in the car was replaced.

910
00:58:47,560 --> 00:58:50,560
Speaker 1: I've seen the list of repairs to that MASDA. The

911
00:58:50,680 --> 00:58:54,640
Speaker 1: front bumper, the headlights, new door handles, new door mirror,

912
00:58:54,880 --> 00:58:58,200
Speaker 1: new rear bumper, new cabin and boot trims. The list

913
00:58:58,320 --> 00:59:01,560
Speaker 1: goes on. It looks like the police took that car

914
00:59:02,000 --> 00:59:07,760
Speaker 1: to pieces and found nothing, which is all the police

915
00:59:07,840 --> 00:59:11,479
Speaker 1: find in their excavation of the area around Kendall where

916
00:59:11,520 --> 00:59:16,800
Speaker 1: William was reported missing. At which point you have to

917
00:59:16,960 --> 00:59:22,320
Speaker 1: ask when does legitimate police investigation and putting pressure on

918
00:59:22,400 --> 00:59:29,480
Speaker 1: a suspect trip over into harassment or malicious prosecution of

919
00:59:29,520 --> 00:59:33,000
Speaker 1: the kind we've seen before in the William Tyrrell investigation

920
00:59:33,520 --> 00:59:38,600
Speaker 1: with the very first suspect, the washing machine repairman Bill Spedding.

921
00:59:40,200 --> 00:59:44,240
Speaker 1: The police would go on to charge William's foster parents

922
00:59:44,600 --> 00:59:48,520
Speaker 1: with lying during their questioning by the Crime Commission, but

923
00:59:48,760 --> 00:59:53,720
Speaker 1: both foster parents would be found not guilty. That would

924
00:59:53,800 --> 00:59:59,120
Speaker 1: take more rounds of court hearings and hostile headlines, and

925
00:59:59,200 --> 01:00:02,720
Speaker 1: after the last of these, the foster parents will go

926
01:00:02,800 --> 01:00:06,800
Speaker 1: home to a silent house that no longer has any

927
01:00:07,120 --> 01:00:11,520
Speaker 1: children in it. While I catch the lift down from

928
01:00:11,560 --> 01:00:15,200
Speaker 1: the courtroom to the ground floor, along with the detectives

929
01:00:15,240 --> 01:00:20,040
Speaker 1: from the strikeforce. Inside, we all stand cramped together, me,

930
01:00:20,480 --> 01:00:23,160
Speaker 1: the cops in their dark suits, and a few lawyers.

931
01:00:24,000 --> 01:00:28,000
Speaker 1: I will look at the lead detective, David Laidlaw and say, honestly,

932
01:00:28,160 --> 01:00:32,360
Speaker 1: I wasn't expecting a not guilty result. He looks at

933
01:00:32,440 --> 01:00:38,480
Speaker 1: me and is defiant, almost dismissing the court verdict. He says,

934
01:00:38,600 --> 01:00:43,560
Speaker 1: common sense did not prevail. The lift doors open and

935
01:00:43,600 --> 01:00:57,280
Speaker 1: we walk out in silence, looking back on everything that

936
01:00:57,360 --> 01:00:59,160
Speaker 1: has happened. How do you feel now?

937
01:01:02,280 --> 01:01:09,280
Speaker 15: I still feel really frustrated and angry, angry at who,

938
01:01:14,240 --> 01:01:23,600
Speaker 15: Angry at whoever took William and started this and ruined

939
01:01:23,640 --> 01:01:33,920
Speaker 15: so many lives, Angry at the police in recent years,

940
01:01:37,160 --> 01:01:47,560
Speaker 15: Frustrated that they haven't found anything. One of my nana's

941
01:01:47,560 --> 01:01:51,760
Speaker 15: greatest regrets, in what she would say in the moments

942
01:01:51,800 --> 01:01:55,960
Speaker 15: before she passed away, was that she would never know,

943
01:01:59,600 --> 01:02:05,840
Speaker 15: but what it's done to my family, and it's changed.

944
01:02:06,160 --> 01:02:10,600
Speaker 15: It just turned everyone's lives upside down completely and life

945
01:02:10,600 --> 01:02:11,680
Speaker 15: will never be the same.

946
01:02:16,160 --> 01:02:26,640
Speaker 1: And we'll leave it there. But that isn't the end.

947
01:02:27,960 --> 01:02:30,400
Speaker 1: I mentioned how the police sent a brief of evidence

948
01:02:30,440 --> 01:02:34,560
Speaker 1: to the state's Director of Public Prosecutions seeking advice on

949
01:02:34,640 --> 01:02:40,520
Speaker 1: whether to charge William's foster mother over disposing of his body. Well,

950
01:02:41,480 --> 01:02:45,440
Speaker 1: the DPP did look at it and started asking questions.

951
01:02:45,880 --> 01:02:48,720
Speaker 1: The detectives were sent back to talk to some of

952
01:02:48,760 --> 01:02:53,080
Speaker 1: the witnesses again, asking things like did Williams foster mother

953
01:02:53,240 --> 01:02:58,560
Speaker 1: have access to any other cars that morning? That took days,

954
01:02:58,680 --> 01:03:04,040
Speaker 1: which turned into weeks, which turned into months, then silence,

955
01:03:05,560 --> 01:03:08,520
Speaker 1: and then the new South Wales Police Force asked the

956
01:03:08,600 --> 01:03:13,320
Speaker 1: DPP to suspend its consideration of the brief of evidence

957
01:03:14,000 --> 01:03:18,720
Speaker 1: until the end of the inquest into William's disappearance, which

958
01:03:18,760 --> 01:03:22,320
Speaker 1: is still running and will now come back next week

959
01:03:23,040 --> 01:03:26,880
Speaker 1: for what it says will be its final hearing and

960
01:03:26,920 --> 01:03:30,800
Speaker 1: we will be there. That's in the next episode of

961
01:03:30,920 --> 01:03:40,120
Speaker 1: Witness William Tyrrell. A lot of different people have been

962
01:03:40,160 --> 01:03:44,000
Speaker 1: involved in making this series. Among them, the executive producer

963
01:03:44,080 --> 01:03:47,360
Speaker 1: is Nina Young. The sound design was by Tiffany Dimack.

964
01:03:47,840 --> 01:03:52,440
Speaker 1: The producers have been Emily Pigeon, Nicholas Adams, Jazzbar, Phoebe

965
01:03:52,560 --> 01:03:57,560
Speaker 1: Zakowski Wallace and Tabby Wilson. Research by Adan Patrick, original

966
01:03:57,640 --> 01:04:02,320
Speaker 1: music by Rory O'Connor voice acting in this episode by Bethbox.

967
01:04:02,880 --> 01:04:06,360
Speaker 1: Our lawyer is Stephen Coombs. The editor at news dot

968
01:04:06,360 --> 01:04:09,880
Speaker 1: com dot Au is Kerry Warren. I'm Dan Box