WEBVTT - Conversations with Cornesy - Arnold Dix

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<v Speaker 1>Hi, everyone, Welcome to conversations. Now, let me set the

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<v Speaker 1>background for this, because in November twenty twenty three, in

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<v Speaker 1>the northern Indian state of Ultrakhan, they were building a

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<v Speaker 1>tunnel through the mountains. It's in the Himalayas, and unfortunately

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<v Speaker 1>there was a collapse in the tunnel and when it

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<v Speaker 1>trapped forty one Indian workers. There was a one hundred

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<v Speaker 1>meters of the tunnel collapsed and they're having trouble reaching

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<v Speaker 1>them until they reached out to our next guest, Arnold

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<v Speaker 1>Dix's president of the Geneva based International Tunneling Underground Space Association.

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<v Speaker 1>He's a polymath. He's got so many qualifications and so

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<v Speaker 1>much talent. He's an engineer, he's a geologist, he's a lawyer,

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<v Speaker 1>he's a farmer who grows flowers. He's even been a

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<v Speaker 1>truck driver and he joins us now. Arnold Dix, thank

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<v Speaker 1>you so much your time. How are you.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm well, Thank you for having me on your show.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm sure you've got so many talents.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, I just love it. Like I you talk about

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<v Speaker 2>as talents. I'm easily distracted, and when I get distracted,

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<v Speaker 2>I enjoy just immersing myself in different things. So yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>great to be with you.

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<v Speaker 1>Your book is called The Promise How and everyday hero

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<v Speaker 1>I made the impossible possible. Did you see yourself as

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<v Speaker 1>an author? And I know you've written lots of papers, lots.

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<v Speaker 2>Of not an author. No, absolutely, not a book, Oh

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<v Speaker 2>my God, like I know. Never, never in my wildest

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<v Speaker 2>dreams had I thought I'd be an author like of

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<v Speaker 2>a book. And I'm sure my English teacher also rest

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<v Speaker 2>her soul jam Lions if any of her family are listening.

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<v Speaker 2>No way she would have thought I'd ever write a

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<v Speaker 2>book either. But there you go, I have.

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<v Speaker 1>We might come, but we might come to those early

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<v Speaker 1>days because I'm always interested in the formative years. There's

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<v Speaker 1>no doubt about that. You're in Slovenia in November twenty

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<v Speaker 1>twenty three and you get a call, can you can

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<v Speaker 1>you walk us through it? Please?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah? Sure? So So because of the war in Ukraine

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<v Speaker 2>with Russia, the world's looking for alternative roots to put

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<v Speaker 2>energy and freight from the sort of the East to

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<v Speaker 2>the West. So Slovenia is part of one of the

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<v Speaker 2>roots for an alternative connection between the East and the West,

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<v Speaker 2>and that involves tunnel. So I was there talking sharing

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<v Speaker 2>ideas and things in Slovenia and literally my phone rings,

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<v Speaker 2>but in the modern sense it's a WhatsApp call and

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<v Speaker 2>it's the Chief Engineer of India on the line and

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<v Speaker 2>he says, look, got a problem, had a tunnel collapse.

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<v Speaker 2>Things aren't going so well with the rescue. What do

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<v Speaker 2>you reckon? And he shared with me some stuff and

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<v Speaker 2>I told him what I thought, and then he just

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<v Speaker 2>said to me, oh, can I just introduce you to someone?

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<v Speaker 2>And he spins the phone around. There's another guy in

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<v Speaker 2>the room and it's the advisor of the Prime Minister

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<v Speaker 2>of India and he says to me, why do you

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<v Speaker 2>what you said? And I explained why, and they just said, oh,

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<v Speaker 2>can you come and give us a hand?

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<v Speaker 1>What did you say to them? Oh?

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<v Speaker 2>I just said nothing too complicated. I just said to them, look,

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<v Speaker 2>I think it's really really fragile, situation, really delicate. And

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<v Speaker 2>if I was you, I'd go really really soft, and

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<v Speaker 2>I'd go really really slow because I think from what

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<v Speaker 2>you've shown me, the whole thing could come down. So

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<v Speaker 2>I'd take it like like just just chill, like turn

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<v Speaker 2>the volume right down and take it easy. And I

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<v Speaker 2>think they're expecting me to say, you know, send in

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<v Speaker 2>hercules and you know, do all of that. But but

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<v Speaker 2>it looked really bad. And and then they just said,

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<v Speaker 2>could you come and give us a hand? I said, yeah, sure.

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<v Speaker 1>How's that? When they say come and give you a hand?

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<v Speaker 1>Who who does the airline booking two pays? How does

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<v Speaker 1>that work?

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<v Speaker 2>I just it's like, so again, it's a bit of

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<v Speaker 2>a surprise. I think to people that in the real

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<v Speaker 2>work world, it's just like your neighbor leaning across the

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<v Speaker 2>fence guard. Hey, Graham, I got I got a problem

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<v Speaker 2>with the with me radio over here. Can you give

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<v Speaker 2>us a hand? And you go, yeah, no worries film,

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<v Speaker 2>I'll be over in a tick. And so it's just

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<v Speaker 2>like that on a global scale, because it's not about money,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, it's not about I've got like I'm not

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<v Speaker 2>big and tough, like it's not like I can lift

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<v Speaker 2>rocks that other people can't. I don't have any sort

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<v Speaker 2>of patented machine that can do the job. But but yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>they just so. And they didn't tell me there's no contract,

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<v Speaker 2>there's no money. It's I organize my own tickets. Oh

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<v Speaker 2>well I organized them as well. I had to go

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<v Speaker 2>to Libyana is like the edge of the earth. So

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<v Speaker 2>I had to go Libyana, do Bay Do Buy, Mumbai, Mumbai, Deli, Deli, Deridin.

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<v Speaker 2>So I organized all of that and then from Deridin

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<v Speaker 2>up to the mountain, they got me a helicopter. So

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<v Speaker 2>it was worth it, like so cool, Like there's this

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<v Speaker 2>chopper and it's like really old one, like as old

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<v Speaker 2>as me. And yeah, they packed me into that and

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<v Speaker 2>flew me up to Himalayas.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so what happened? So your land? And is it

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<v Speaker 1>the au? Is there a reception party for you?

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<v Speaker 2>Na, it's not like a reception party. On the way,

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<v Speaker 2>I was doing my research because I was trying to

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<v Speaker 2>figure out what I was getting myself into. It's not

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<v Speaker 2>it's not the first time I've been called like I

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<v Speaker 2>do this. What's different is this becomes public. Normally everyone

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<v Speaker 2>keeps a lid on it, and there's it's like stum,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, Mum's the word. We don't talk about it.

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<v Speaker 2>But somehow other this had become public. So on the way,

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<v Speaker 2>I was doing my research into what's going on, and

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<v Speaker 2>I discovered that this was a special pilgrim tunnel, so

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<v Speaker 2>it was going to one of the four most holy

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<v Speaker 2>places for the Hindu people, and that the local priests

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<v Speaker 2>believe the reason for the collapse was religious based, was

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<v Speaker 2>they'd upset the gods by doing something up there. And

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<v Speaker 2>so I realized I was getting myself into something quite

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<v Speaker 2>different to your average engineering collapse. There was this whole

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<v Speaker 2>cultural religious dimension to an engineering collapse. So by the

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<v Speaker 2>time I landed there, I was sort of getting quite

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<v Speaker 2>tuned into this is something, this is a bit unusual,

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<v Speaker 2>this particular collapse. So no, there was no big reception party.

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<v Speaker 2>The guy who rung me Rajal, he was just sitting

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<v Speaker 2>there and wow, you could call it a taxi, but

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<v Speaker 2>it's not really. It's just like a car and sort

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<v Speaker 2>of barely a car. And he just picked me up

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<v Speaker 2>and took me. He took me up to the tunnel

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<v Speaker 2>and went had a look.

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<v Speaker 1>What was there?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so not good. So the place that they put

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<v Speaker 2>the tunnel through the mountain is what we call a sheers,

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<v Speaker 2>So it's where the two two lots of rock sort

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<v Speaker 2>of joined together and rubbed together a bit like a

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<v Speaker 2>fault or something. And unfortunately the tunnel was running right

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<v Speaker 2>along that and so when I put my head inside

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<v Speaker 2>the tunnel was like oh dear, because you could see

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<v Speaker 2>it was I think twenty one prior collapses between the

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<v Speaker 2>beginning of the tunnel and where the collapse was this time.

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<v Speaker 2>So it just was awful. And it like if it

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<v Speaker 2>was in Australia, you wouldn't be allowed in, like you

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<v Speaker 2>just it' a bit have a big sign, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>like keep out sort of thing. Like it was like

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<v Speaker 2>it was just terrible. Yeah, so not good.

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<v Speaker 1>I've heard you say and read about you. How you

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<v Speaker 1>talk to the mountain? Can you take can you walk

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<v Speaker 1>us through that process? You talk? Yeah, you feel it?

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<v Speaker 2>Is that?

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<v Speaker 1>Is that spiritual? Is that? Is it a practicality to that?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's interesting. So that all talking to the mountain

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<v Speaker 2>or touching the rocks or listening to the rocks. So

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<v Speaker 2>I'm a scientist, engineer kind of guy, right, So I'm

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<v Speaker 2>into the mass and science and all the tools and

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<v Speaker 2>things that go along with that. But in addition to that,

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<v Speaker 2>and it was taught to me from when I was

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<v Speaker 2>a kid of a gender mind from the old time

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<v Speaker 2>snowy mountains guys, and reinforced during my mining placements at

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<v Speaker 2>when I was doing geology or like mining geology at Monash,

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<v Speaker 2>the people who actually survive and make old bones in

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<v Speaker 2>this business, there's usually something more to them than just

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<v Speaker 2>digging and the sort of the science and the engineering,

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<v Speaker 2>and what they always say is trust your guts, like

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<v Speaker 2>trust your instinct, and in the case of rocks, that's

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<v Speaker 2>that is actually touch them, feel them, taste them, smell them,

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<v Speaker 2>put your back against them, just sense what's going on.

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<v Speaker 2>And so I that's part of how I roll. I

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<v Speaker 2>do all the tech stuff. But I also I'm not

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not adverse to how do I feel about it?

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<v Speaker 1>And what did the mountain tell you when you are.

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<v Speaker 2>Unhappy to it? Was? It was in a bad mood,

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<v Speaker 2>and I I it was obviously traumatized. And so if

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<v Speaker 2>I use the analogy that the mountain is alive, and

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<v Speaker 2>in a sense it is alive because it's at this

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<v Speaker 2>collision point between the Indian plate and China, so the

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<v Speaker 2>Himalayas are this big collision, and so it's moving and

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<v Speaker 2>and does all of that sort of stuff. It told

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<v Speaker 2>me that it was very much alive. It told me

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<v Speaker 2>that was very much in distress. And when I touched

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<v Speaker 2>it and listened to it, but I also felt that

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<v Speaker 2>we still had time. I know that sounds odd, but

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<v Speaker 2>it didn't feel like it was about to collapse on me.

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<v Speaker 2>It felt like it wasn't. It felt like it was

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<v Speaker 2>going to collapse, which it did actually, but it just

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<v Speaker 2>wasn't going to do it right then. But yeah, I

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<v Speaker 2>did that on a daily basis. That's like taking its

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<v Speaker 2>pulse all the time and you're listening and it's like

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<v Speaker 2>you've got your spidery senses on high alert, like what's

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<v Speaker 2>going on here?

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<v Speaker 1>Professor Arnold Dix is my guest, folks. He's a president

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<v Speaker 1>of the Tunneling, Underground and Space Association. There's been a

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<v Speaker 1>collapse in a tunnel in North India and he's been

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<v Speaker 1>summoned to help rescue the forty one miners. I suppose

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<v Speaker 1>you call or workers at a trap there and we'll

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<v Speaker 1>find out how he did it after the break back shortly,

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<v Speaker 1>welcome back to conversations. Arnold Dix is my guest. Arnold

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<v Speaker 1>is an expert on everything. He's a geologist, an engineer,

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<v Speaker 1>a lawyer, farmer. But if you just tuned in, been

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<v Speaker 1>called to India to help with the rescue of some

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<v Speaker 1>forty one workers trapped in a tunnel collapse. As they're

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<v Speaker 1>trying to bore a tunnel through the through the Himalayas.

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<v Speaker 1>But as we're talking in the break, Arnold, you told

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<v Speaker 1>me that your phone's going on now and there's there's actually,

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<v Speaker 1>as we're speaking, another tunnel collapse in India.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Absolutely, So I'm getting like, literally while we're talking,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm getting messages. Got a collapse. I've got let's see

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<v Speaker 2>this is I've just I mean, you can see it.

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<v Speaker 2>But here's a message coming in a bit hard for radio.

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<v Speaker 2>It's got I've got a great face for radio, and

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<v Speaker 2>that's a great message for radio. But here's one of

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<v Speaker 2>the rescue guys. He's saying, I've just reached Telangana a

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<v Speaker 2>tunnel operation, Dudy, there's a collapse. He sent me through

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<v Speaker 2>a picture of himself in when we were doing our collapse,

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<v Speaker 2>which is that's us together there we worked on. He's saying,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, wish me luck. I've got videos coming in

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<v Speaker 2>showing me the collapse. I've got the chief engineer again

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<v Speaker 2>messaging me asking me. He's saying, what's he saying? I

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<v Speaker 2>went inside presence Award muckinded. Further advanced collapse occurred over TBM.

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<v Speaker 2>TBM is buried in Mark NDRF on their way. No

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<v Speaker 2>signs of life. Right, that's that's now like in the break,

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<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh, So that's life another day in the

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<v Speaker 2>life of Arnold.

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<v Speaker 1>So you've been there. Some of your comments have been fatalistic.

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<v Speaker 1>You often say that you don't often have an opportunity

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<v Speaker 1>to save lives and collapses like this, the outcome is

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<v Speaker 1>generally tragic.

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<v Speaker 2>So this text, this collapse. If I was a betting man,

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<v Speaker 2>I will say all dead, Oh my gosh.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, But in Ultra Khan, you've got forty one still alive,

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<v Speaker 1>and they've tried to reach them using big machineries and

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<v Speaker 1>big augers, but that's failed. So how did you approach

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<v Speaker 1>a different strategy for them?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So, by the time I got there, their promises

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<v Speaker 2>that they're going to rescue the forty one at all

0:13:21.800 --> 0:13:26.280
<v Speaker 2>not come true. And to be honest, feeling pretty sad

0:13:26.920 --> 0:13:30.240
<v Speaker 2>because at the beginning of a rescue there's always this like,

0:13:30.280 --> 0:13:32.400
<v Speaker 2>we're going to do it. You know, the hormones are

0:13:32.440 --> 0:13:35.160
<v Speaker 2>running big, We've got a big machine. Big machine means

0:13:35.160 --> 0:13:37.679
<v Speaker 2>we can do the job, blah blah blah. But by

0:13:37.679 --> 0:13:41.040
<v Speaker 2>the time I got there, that hadn't happened. And so

0:13:41.160 --> 0:13:45.360
<v Speaker 2>I got their. First thing I do is just immerse

0:13:45.480 --> 0:13:50.679
<v Speaker 2>myself in the situation. I might be many things, but

0:13:50.720 --> 0:13:54.920
<v Speaker 2>what I'm not is a great, big, elder plus sized,

0:13:55.040 --> 0:13:59.680
<v Speaker 2>white bearded barbarian who comes in bang and you do

0:13:59.760 --> 0:14:03.880
<v Speaker 2>it highway or the highway. That's not me. Instead, what

0:14:03.920 --> 0:14:06.960
<v Speaker 2>I do is I just disappear into the group. So

0:14:07.080 --> 0:14:12.319
<v Speaker 2>I'm with everyone, talking to everyone, just trying to get

0:14:12.320 --> 0:14:14.400
<v Speaker 2>an understanding of what's going on, find out what the

0:14:14.480 --> 0:14:18.640
<v Speaker 2>data is saying, find out what our like. We had

0:14:18.640 --> 0:14:21.320
<v Speaker 2>things called light our data, so we're doing digital be

0:14:21.320 --> 0:14:26.320
<v Speaker 2>twin modeling, looking for change data, just any any factual

0:14:26.360 --> 0:14:29.760
<v Speaker 2>material I could get my hands on. And also how

0:14:29.760 --> 0:14:32.680
<v Speaker 2>people are feeling, like, how's there one feeling?

0:14:32.760 --> 0:14:32.880
<v Speaker 1>Like?

0:14:33.120 --> 0:14:35.880
<v Speaker 2>What? What's the mood? So that's what I did when

0:14:35.880 --> 0:14:41.160
<v Speaker 2>I got there, and pretty quickly I felt that they

0:14:41.720 --> 0:14:45.000
<v Speaker 2>needed hope. That sounds really sounds really odd, you know,

0:14:45.080 --> 0:14:50.160
<v Speaker 2>like I'm a technical person, but they needed hope. And

0:14:50.200 --> 0:14:54.600
<v Speaker 2>it's this is really unusual because normally everyone's either dead

0:14:55.000 --> 0:14:59.040
<v Speaker 2>or soon will be, but in this case, everyone's alive,

0:14:59.760 --> 0:15:02.080
<v Speaker 2>and so we've got everything to lose.

0:15:02.880 --> 0:15:05.280
<v Speaker 1>And what contact did they have with them?

0:15:05.840 --> 0:15:09.320
<v Speaker 2>Oh, we had we there was a compressor. They were

0:15:09.400 --> 0:15:13.200
<v Speaker 2>using some air compressor tools, and there was we had

0:15:13.240 --> 0:15:16.120
<v Speaker 2>lots There were initially lots of pipes going down there

0:15:16.160 --> 0:15:18.560
<v Speaker 2>because we're building a tunnel. But when it collapsed, it

0:15:18.640 --> 0:15:24.040
<v Speaker 2>crushed everything, including air supply. Everything filled the whole tunnel

0:15:24.120 --> 0:15:28.480
<v Speaker 2>up except for one little pipe that was for the

0:15:28.560 --> 0:15:31.480
<v Speaker 2>air tools. So what we could do is we could

0:15:31.520 --> 0:15:34.720
<v Speaker 2>blow air down the pipe, and we could also yell,

0:15:34.920 --> 0:15:39.920
<v Speaker 2>so you could go literally hollow flowing, and then you

0:15:40.000 --> 0:15:43.720
<v Speaker 2>hear a little voice down the other end, so we knew,

0:15:44.480 --> 0:15:46.360
<v Speaker 2>you know, so we kind of know that there's people

0:15:46.400 --> 0:15:50.360
<v Speaker 2>there on the other end, but it's only a little pipe,

0:15:50.600 --> 0:15:56.040
<v Speaker 2>and but that let us send, well send, which is good.

0:15:56.240 --> 0:15:58.160
<v Speaker 2>So at least we know and they know that we

0:15:58.200 --> 0:16:02.480
<v Speaker 2>know that they're alive, so that's okay. Some food And

0:16:02.520 --> 0:16:06.440
<v Speaker 2>when I say food, I don't mean like food rations

0:16:06.480 --> 0:16:08.760
<v Speaker 2>or something. I mean like you get a handful of peanuts,

0:16:09.120 --> 0:16:10.920
<v Speaker 2>you stick them in the pipe and then you blow

0:16:10.960 --> 0:16:14.440
<v Speaker 2>it with air compressed air, and so presumably it's like

0:16:14.480 --> 0:16:17.160
<v Speaker 2>a bazooka of peanuts going down at the other end,

0:16:17.360 --> 0:16:19.320
<v Speaker 2>and you can blow a bit of water and stuff

0:16:19.360 --> 0:16:21.720
<v Speaker 2>down there, like literally put a tap and then they

0:16:21.760 --> 0:16:24.000
<v Speaker 2>catch the water at the other end, so we could

0:16:24.000 --> 0:16:25.720
<v Speaker 2>get air and a bit of food and a bit

0:16:25.760 --> 0:16:29.880
<v Speaker 2>of water and a bit of communications. And that was

0:16:29.920 --> 0:16:32.320
<v Speaker 2>fantastic because at least they knew that we knew that

0:16:32.360 --> 0:16:35.080
<v Speaker 2>they were alive, and we could tell them that we're

0:16:35.120 --> 0:16:35.880
<v Speaker 2>coming to get them.

0:16:36.760 --> 0:16:40.160
<v Speaker 1>And Dad used a big orger when you come in

0:16:40.200 --> 0:16:43.600
<v Speaker 1>and say, look, this is the wrong strategy. I think

0:16:43.640 --> 0:16:47.480
<v Speaker 1>we should go smaller and more slowly. How do they

0:16:47.520 --> 0:16:49.000
<v Speaker 1>receive that advice?

0:16:49.880 --> 0:16:56.360
<v Speaker 2>Oh, well, so gee, you cut right to the that's

0:16:56.440 --> 0:16:57.960
<v Speaker 2>you know, it's not even in the book, like You've

0:16:57.960 --> 0:17:01.720
<v Speaker 2>gone straight to the point a bit. So look, there

0:17:01.760 --> 0:17:06.159
<v Speaker 2>was a difference of opinion amongst the different experts, and

0:17:06.680 --> 0:17:10.359
<v Speaker 2>certainly I was I'm only one of many who's there,

0:17:11.080 --> 0:17:16.240
<v Speaker 2>and I was not. I was very uncomfortable with some

0:17:16.359 --> 0:17:20.520
<v Speaker 2>of the things that were happening, and so we just

0:17:21.520 --> 0:17:23.919
<v Speaker 2>I think my presence just turned the volume down a bit. So,

0:17:23.960 --> 0:17:26.639
<v Speaker 2>for example, there was a vertical drilling operation, which was

0:17:26.680 --> 0:17:29.200
<v Speaker 2>one of the ways we're trying to do it, and

0:17:29.640 --> 0:17:32.399
<v Speaker 2>the vertical drill had come down really well. We were

0:17:32.400 --> 0:17:34.719
<v Speaker 2>going to put people in a little capsule and rescue

0:17:34.760 --> 0:17:39.320
<v Speaker 2>them vertically, but we started to get more water coming

0:17:39.359 --> 0:17:41.600
<v Speaker 2>in the tunnel, and so we were risking drowning the men.

0:17:41.800 --> 0:17:45.439
<v Speaker 2>So my approach of hey, look we're going to rescue

0:17:45.440 --> 0:17:47.000
<v Speaker 2>all the men and we're not going to get hurt.

0:17:47.520 --> 0:17:51.000
<v Speaker 2>They stopped. So the team agreed to stop. Now that's

0:17:51.080 --> 0:17:53.960
<v Speaker 2>just a miracle when you've got a group of men

0:17:54.359 --> 0:17:57.200
<v Speaker 2>who were trying to rescue people and they were in

0:17:57.200 --> 0:18:01.040
<v Speaker 2>ten this is the vertical teamin ten meters and they

0:18:01.080 --> 0:18:04.680
<v Speaker 2>agreed to stop. And then with the horizontal drill, they

0:18:04.800 --> 0:18:07.840
<v Speaker 2>didn't agree to stop with that horizontal lger, but in

0:18:07.840 --> 0:18:11.760
<v Speaker 2>the end it blew up anyway, and so then we

0:18:11.840 --> 0:18:14.640
<v Speaker 2>had to go to people in the pipe with their

0:18:14.640 --> 0:18:15.360
<v Speaker 2>bare hands.

0:18:15.920 --> 0:18:19.159
<v Speaker 1>And so that's I've read that. So you've got it.

0:18:19.640 --> 0:18:22.920
<v Speaker 1>You've got to your progressing. They're in this pipe which

0:18:23.000 --> 0:18:27.080
<v Speaker 1>is like a tunnel, and they're digging hand by hand.

0:18:26.760 --> 0:18:28.720
<v Speaker 1>What what sort of tool are they using it as

0:18:28.760 --> 0:18:29.280
<v Speaker 1>a spree?

0:18:29.560 --> 0:18:33.520
<v Speaker 2>Is it just hands? Really? And I mean hands? I

0:18:33.520 --> 0:18:35.800
<v Speaker 2>think they might have had gloves on. Well. The reason

0:18:36.000 --> 0:18:38.959
<v Speaker 2>is that the material that it collapsed, because we're in

0:18:38.960 --> 0:18:42.840
<v Speaker 2>a sheer zone, is just little tiny bits of rock

0:18:43.000 --> 0:18:48.680
<v Speaker 2>like it's all collapsed, and because it's so fragile, and

0:18:48.760 --> 0:18:53.720
<v Speaker 2>because we understand that the whole thing can collapse. The

0:18:53.920 --> 0:18:57.600
<v Speaker 2>softer and more gently we go, the more likely it

0:18:57.720 --> 0:19:01.040
<v Speaker 2>is that we won't trigger a major collapse. Because the

0:19:01.200 --> 0:19:04.600
<v Speaker 2>data was showing us. We've got drones that are flying

0:19:04.600 --> 0:19:08.200
<v Speaker 2>in and out and building like virtual models of the tunnel,

0:19:09.000 --> 0:19:12.440
<v Speaker 2>and we've got survey data also showing us what's going

0:19:12.480 --> 0:19:14.119
<v Speaker 2>on in the tunnel, and what we could see was

0:19:14.520 --> 0:19:18.879
<v Speaker 2>that it was we call it converging or squashing, So

0:19:18.960 --> 0:19:22.680
<v Speaker 2>the tunnel was squashing, and it was also squashing asymmetrically,

0:19:23.040 --> 0:19:26.199
<v Speaker 2>which means that it it's like the worst of the

0:19:26.240 --> 0:19:29.160
<v Speaker 2>worst because it's yeah, it's uneven, so the whole thing

0:19:29.200 --> 0:19:35.120
<v Speaker 2>could blow. So the trick was to do as gently

0:19:35.200 --> 0:19:41.280
<v Speaker 2>as possible our progress so as to not upset the patient.

0:19:41.600 --> 0:19:43.720
<v Speaker 2>Like if the analogy that the mountain is alive and

0:19:43.760 --> 0:19:46.560
<v Speaker 2>I'm touching the mountain to feel its heartbeat, we don't

0:19:46.600 --> 0:19:49.920
<v Speaker 2>want this patient to feel us just getting in there

0:19:49.920 --> 0:19:52.359
<v Speaker 2>to get these men out. So, yeah, it's two men

0:19:52.680 --> 0:19:55.399
<v Speaker 2>in a little pipe. It's about eight hundred mil pipe

0:19:55.840 --> 0:19:59.000
<v Speaker 2>ten mil plate which we built on site. We do

0:19:59.200 --> 0:20:03.520
<v Speaker 2>we weld these and yeah, we're on a little trolley.

0:20:03.560 --> 0:20:06.879
<v Speaker 2>We built a little trolley and we've got a trolley

0:20:06.880 --> 0:20:09.399
<v Speaker 2>on a rope and we're just hand digging now and

0:20:09.440 --> 0:20:10.359
<v Speaker 2>pulling out the mark.

0:20:10.720 --> 0:20:15.320
<v Speaker 1>I'm reminded of all those escape attempts from Stelle a seventeen,

0:20:15.400 --> 0:20:17.639
<v Speaker 1>and you know where they where. They dug tunnels and

0:20:17.800 --> 0:20:20.320
<v Speaker 1>they're doing it by hand and they're trying to get

0:20:20.359 --> 0:20:24.159
<v Speaker 1>the dirt out and disperse it there. But what was

0:20:24.200 --> 0:20:27.000
<v Speaker 1>your action reaction like when they finally broke through in

0:20:27.040 --> 0:20:30.159
<v Speaker 1>this like an eight hundred mili tunnel, which is you

0:20:30.160 --> 0:20:32.600
<v Speaker 1>can sort of crawl in, I suppose is it about

0:20:32.640 --> 0:20:35.719
<v Speaker 1>all you can do? Did you have any sense of

0:20:35.760 --> 0:20:37.840
<v Speaker 1>what the reaction was like at the other end when

0:20:37.880 --> 0:20:40.639
<v Speaker 1>they finally saw a rescuer appear.

0:20:41.320 --> 0:20:46.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, on all accounts, they were just well, I

0:20:46.600 --> 0:20:49.560
<v Speaker 2>mean it's like for them, they have to believe they're

0:20:49.600 --> 0:20:51.960
<v Speaker 2>going to be rescued, otherwise they can't stay alive. So

0:20:52.040 --> 0:20:54.760
<v Speaker 2>that's the first thing. So the sort of mindset you

0:20:54.840 --> 0:20:58.560
<v Speaker 2>have to be as an underground person have to stay positive.

0:21:00.440 --> 0:21:03.280
<v Speaker 2>They were their mindset is, of course, we're going to

0:21:03.280 --> 0:21:08.040
<v Speaker 2>be rescued. But in addition to water and food, we

0:21:08.119 --> 0:21:11.600
<v Speaker 2>did send them medication. Just between you, me and your listeners,

0:21:11.840 --> 0:21:17.000
<v Speaker 2>the medication we were sending were antidepressants. So they were

0:21:17.040 --> 0:21:20.160
<v Speaker 2>in a you know, like all things considered, they were

0:21:20.240 --> 0:21:23.600
<v Speaker 2>pretty positive now that the plan was that each one

0:21:23.640 --> 0:21:27.280
<v Speaker 2>of the forty one would be triaged and then we'd

0:21:27.320 --> 0:21:30.119
<v Speaker 2>bring them out who was the most sick first and

0:21:30.160 --> 0:21:33.280
<v Speaker 2>whatever you and it will take hours. But actually, and

0:21:33.520 --> 0:21:35.280
<v Speaker 2>I remember being in a meeting saying, I don't think

0:21:35.280 --> 0:21:37.040
<v Speaker 2>that's going to work. I think actually they're just going

0:21:37.080 --> 0:21:41.439
<v Speaker 2>to come bouncing out. And so sure enough, as soon

0:21:41.480 --> 0:21:44.240
<v Speaker 2>as the pipe busted through, it was just like forty

0:21:44.280 --> 0:21:49.440
<v Speaker 2>one little rabbits came scurrying out the pipe and the

0:21:50.560 --> 0:21:55.760
<v Speaker 2>scene was amazing, like it was. There were obviously all

0:21:55.800 --> 0:21:58.520
<v Speaker 2>the rescue people were cheering, and of course all the

0:21:58.560 --> 0:22:02.879
<v Speaker 2>politicians were there right front, of course, but it was

0:22:02.920 --> 0:22:06.840
<v Speaker 2>interesting for me. I'm not in You won't find me

0:22:07.000 --> 0:22:09.120
<v Speaker 2>in any of the vision for that when they come

0:22:09.160 --> 0:22:14.840
<v Speaker 2>through the pipe, because I decided that I shouldn't be

0:22:15.000 --> 0:22:18.639
<v Speaker 2>in that part of the rescue because actually this is

0:22:18.640 --> 0:22:22.200
<v Speaker 2>a very personal thing for the country, like I'd done

0:22:22.240 --> 0:22:26.760
<v Speaker 2>my bit. So I sat behind the families. There was

0:22:26.800 --> 0:22:29.600
<v Speaker 2>a spot just a little bit back, not far like

0:22:29.680 --> 0:22:33.640
<v Speaker 2>maybe fifty meters maximum in the tunnel, just a little

0:22:33.680 --> 0:22:35.320
<v Speaker 2>bit back from where they were coming out and where

0:22:35.320 --> 0:22:40.080
<v Speaker 2>the ambulances were, and I just sat there and watched

0:22:40.080 --> 0:22:44.520
<v Speaker 2>the reaction of the families and the rescue people were

0:22:44.560 --> 0:22:46.680
<v Speaker 2>all cheering and clapping and all the rest of it,

0:22:47.080 --> 0:22:50.960
<v Speaker 2>but the families, and I could never have guessed this.

0:22:51.160 --> 0:22:54.320
<v Speaker 2>The families were like they were seeing the dead, Like

0:22:54.480 --> 0:22:57.879
<v Speaker 2>it was like they were seeing ghosts. They weren't clapping

0:22:57.880 --> 0:23:01.280
<v Speaker 2>and cheering though, were just like blank faced looking.

0:23:01.240 --> 0:23:02.760
<v Speaker 1>When they cry. Sure they'd be crying.

0:23:03.000 --> 0:23:06.960
<v Speaker 2>It was crying, well, there was, there was, and maybe

0:23:07.040 --> 0:23:10.560
<v Speaker 2>there was a bit of crying from me too. There's

0:23:10.600 --> 0:23:14.639
<v Speaker 2>this wave of distrust of government around the world at

0:23:14.640 --> 0:23:19.800
<v Speaker 2>the moment, and so even amongst these people, they believed

0:23:19.840 --> 0:23:22.840
<v Speaker 2>perhaps that they're being lied to, that they're now their

0:23:22.920 --> 0:23:24.600
<v Speaker 2>loved ones maybe weren't going to be able to be

0:23:24.640 --> 0:23:27.000
<v Speaker 2>brought out. Maybe this rescue was just a big sort

0:23:27.040 --> 0:23:28.480
<v Speaker 2>of public relations thing.

0:23:29.160 --> 0:23:33.040
<v Speaker 1>But it succeeded, acceeded, exceeded what I need to ask,

0:23:33.600 --> 0:23:35.879
<v Speaker 1>what's the state of the tunnel now?

0:23:35.720 --> 0:23:38.120
<v Speaker 2>How funny you should ask. I was there literally two

0:23:38.160 --> 0:23:40.720
<v Speaker 2>weeks ago and was taken in to have a look.

0:23:41.359 --> 0:23:45.240
<v Speaker 2>In over a year, they've managed to only go forty

0:23:45.280 --> 0:23:50.919
<v Speaker 2>five meters in like stabilizing the area that collapsed. They've

0:23:51.280 --> 0:23:54.280
<v Speaker 2>the pipe still there, but they've gone forty five meters.

0:23:54.920 --> 0:23:57.120
<v Speaker 2>It did fill up with water and it did collapse

0:23:58.119 --> 0:23:59.960
<v Speaker 2>after we did the rescue, so all the things we're

0:24:00.040 --> 0:24:04.119
<v Speaker 2>worried about happened. But they're now slowly rebuilding it.

0:24:04.920 --> 0:24:06.440
<v Speaker 1>And will it be completed do you think?

0:24:06.760 --> 0:24:10.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, the rate they're going, it'll take another couple of years,

0:24:10.160 --> 0:24:12.640
<v Speaker 2>but yeah, it'll get completed. And I think with all

0:24:12.640 --> 0:24:14.040
<v Speaker 2>the publicity, they'll do it right.

0:24:14.440 --> 0:24:17.040
<v Speaker 1>We need to take a break. Arnold, Professor Arnold Dix

0:24:17.160 --> 0:24:20.000
<v Speaker 1>is my guest. He recalled this great adventure in a

0:24:20.000 --> 0:24:22.760
<v Speaker 1>book called The Promise, How an everyday hero made the

0:24:22.760 --> 0:24:26.520
<v Speaker 1>impossible possible. There's so much more to Arnold that I

0:24:26.560 --> 0:24:28.760
<v Speaker 1>want to get to. I'm not We're going around a

0:24:28.760 --> 0:24:30.760
<v Speaker 1>time that I'll do it as much as I can

0:24:30.800 --> 0:24:33.159
<v Speaker 1>when we come back after the break back shortly, folks.

0:24:33.400 --> 0:24:35.840
<v Speaker 1>Welcome back, folks. If you've just tuned into conversations, we're

0:24:35.840 --> 0:24:38.680
<v Speaker 1>talking with Arnold Dix now Professor Arnold dis But he's

0:24:38.720 --> 0:24:42.360
<v Speaker 1>got so many different qualifications. He's a geologist, an engineer,

0:24:42.359 --> 0:24:45.280
<v Speaker 1>he's a lawyer, he's a farmer, I'm not even sure

0:24:45.280 --> 0:24:47.200
<v Speaker 1>we'll get a chance to talk about it. He drove

0:24:47.240 --> 0:24:51.040
<v Speaker 1>trucks for a while there, so, but he achieved great

0:24:51.119 --> 0:24:55.600
<v Speaker 1>acclaim as one of the rescuers of the forty one

0:24:55.640 --> 0:24:58.959
<v Speaker 1>Indian workers are trapped in a collapse in a tunnel

0:24:58.960 --> 0:25:01.840
<v Speaker 1>in the Himalayas. If you just tuned in, they've finally

0:25:01.920 --> 0:25:04.119
<v Speaker 1>got them out. The forty one are out and they

0:25:04.160 --> 0:25:08.399
<v Speaker 1>all we've seen in reasonable spirits and good health. So

0:25:08.480 --> 0:25:13.200
<v Speaker 1>what happens after that? Arnold, you become a renowned almost

0:25:13.200 --> 0:25:16.680
<v Speaker 1>a national hero in India. I mean yeah, and our

0:25:16.720 --> 0:25:20.880
<v Speaker 1>Prime minister mentions you in Parliament and you're in handside.

0:25:20.960 --> 0:25:24.200
<v Speaker 1>I mean, how did you handle this newfound fame?

0:25:25.160 --> 0:25:28.240
<v Speaker 2>Well, firstly I wondered whether I'd had a mental breakdown

0:25:28.320 --> 0:25:30.520
<v Speaker 2>or was having one of those mental health issues, because

0:25:30.920 --> 0:25:33.840
<v Speaker 2>it wasn't just the Prime Minister, even our friend mister

0:25:33.920 --> 0:25:37.359
<v Speaker 2>Dutton got up and said no, and I'm like, no,

0:25:37.880 --> 0:25:40.800
<v Speaker 2>surely not. And at the time this is happening, I'm

0:25:40.840 --> 0:25:43.560
<v Speaker 2>still up in the Himalayas, and so I'm getting reports

0:25:44.000 --> 0:25:46.520
<v Speaker 2>and there are only broken reports because I don't have

0:25:46.800 --> 0:25:50.920
<v Speaker 2>internet coverage. Well I'm not much internet coverage because I'm

0:25:50.920 --> 0:25:54.959
<v Speaker 2>in the Himalayas. I'm not even in a city, and

0:25:55.040 --> 0:25:57.520
<v Speaker 2>I'm getting reports that our prime Minister's saying nice things

0:25:57.520 --> 0:26:00.359
<v Speaker 2>about me in parliament and the leader of the opposition. Everything.

0:26:01.160 --> 0:26:04.480
<v Speaker 2>I wondered whether I might have died or maybe it

0:26:04.760 --> 0:26:08.639
<v Speaker 2>was maybe I was delusional, because the whole story is

0:26:08.680 --> 0:26:12.720
<v Speaker 2>so ridiculous and so not like how it's always been

0:26:12.760 --> 0:26:14.719
<v Speaker 2>for me over my years and years of dealing with

0:26:14.840 --> 0:26:17.760
<v Speaker 2>bad things, that I thought maybe I was just I'd

0:26:17.800 --> 0:26:20.919
<v Speaker 2>lost the plot and so a bit of slapping to

0:26:20.960 --> 0:26:24.760
<v Speaker 2>my own face about it all. And I'm actually serious

0:26:24.800 --> 0:26:28.080
<v Speaker 2>because when I'm dealing with really difficult situations, I have

0:26:28.119 --> 0:26:30.959
<v Speaker 2>to make sure I'm performing well because my judgment has

0:26:31.000 --> 0:26:34.560
<v Speaker 2>to be good, and so I and then people in

0:26:34.600 --> 0:26:38.520
<v Speaker 2>the streets, like everyone's a lot of people lying down

0:26:38.560 --> 0:26:40.560
<v Speaker 2>on the ground and touching my feet.

0:26:40.200 --> 0:26:42.320
<v Speaker 1>Which is very Indian people.

0:26:42.880 --> 0:26:47.639
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because because there was this huge spiritual dimension to

0:26:49.160 --> 0:26:55.239
<v Speaker 2>the tunnel itself, and also the rescue, the messaging, and

0:26:55.280 --> 0:26:57.959
<v Speaker 2>the way I engage with the mountain. Listening to the mountain,

0:26:58.119 --> 0:27:02.119
<v Speaker 2>I prayed at their temple, I gave flowers to their

0:27:02.400 --> 0:27:04.920
<v Speaker 2>local god every day, Like before I'd go in the

0:27:04.960 --> 0:27:08.240
<v Speaker 2>tum I'd always give some flowers to the local mountain God.

0:27:09.359 --> 0:27:12.120
<v Speaker 2>There was also this spiritual dimension to it, and so

0:27:12.320 --> 0:27:18.919
<v Speaker 2>for many people they believed that God had somehow used

0:27:19.000 --> 0:27:23.000
<v Speaker 2>me as a sort of a I don't know, a

0:27:23.080 --> 0:27:27.320
<v Speaker 2>vehicle to help the rescue. And that's really difficult for

0:27:27.359 --> 0:27:30.080
<v Speaker 2>me to understand because that's not sort of the place

0:27:30.119 --> 0:27:33.399
<v Speaker 2>I come from. And so I was faced with everyone

0:27:33.480 --> 0:27:37.960
<v Speaker 2>recognizes me, I get mobbed, I had to have special escorts.

0:27:38.000 --> 0:27:42.439
<v Speaker 2>I couldn't stay at a hotel like it was. I

0:27:42.440 --> 0:27:44.920
<v Speaker 2>think it was widely reported that I was the only

0:27:44.960 --> 0:27:49.520
<v Speaker 2>Australian that every Indian loved because we've just beaten them

0:27:49.560 --> 0:27:53.320
<v Speaker 2>at the cricket and so this was and there were memes,

0:27:53.800 --> 0:27:57.560
<v Speaker 2>lots of memes. There was I think some videos of

0:27:57.640 --> 0:28:00.240
<v Speaker 2>the rescue guys singing a song with me on a

0:28:00.280 --> 0:28:03.080
<v Speaker 2>log and that got like nearly one hundred million hits,

0:28:03.320 --> 0:28:05.600
<v Speaker 2>Like I was like a bit of a celebrity over there,

0:28:05.880 --> 0:28:08.640
<v Speaker 2>not how it normally is normally. I'm completely unknown.

0:28:09.000 --> 0:28:14.040
<v Speaker 1>Back to reality though, the more practical things you've got

0:28:14.040 --> 0:28:15.879
<v Speaker 1>to you've got to live, you've got to survive. Did

0:28:15.960 --> 0:28:18.080
<v Speaker 1>you get paid for your time and for your effort?

0:28:18.240 --> 0:28:22.639
<v Speaker 1>There's a financial reward I mean, can we discuss that practicality?

0:28:23.160 --> 0:28:28.840
<v Speaker 2>We can, we can discuss that practicality and it's very quick. No, no, yeah,

0:28:28.960 --> 0:28:30.240
<v Speaker 2>but you don't do it for.

0:28:30.240 --> 0:28:31.679
<v Speaker 1>That, Like I know you don't do it for that,

0:28:31.720 --> 0:28:33.920
<v Speaker 1>but you've got to someone has to pay for the affairs,

0:28:33.960 --> 0:28:36.520
<v Speaker 1>and you've got a family you have to feed.

0:28:36.600 --> 0:28:39.680
<v Speaker 2>And yeah, I've got to say, if this was part

0:28:39.680 --> 0:28:42.720
<v Speaker 2>of an incredible business plan, like a get rich program,

0:28:43.640 --> 0:28:49.360
<v Speaker 2>that didn't work, And if anything, it's probably ruined a

0:28:49.360 --> 0:28:53.320
<v Speaker 2>lot of my traditional business because I'm famous for not

0:28:53.480 --> 0:28:56.520
<v Speaker 2>being famous. So you know, you get me in when

0:28:56.560 --> 0:28:58.560
<v Speaker 2>you've got a problem, I help sort it out. I

0:28:58.600 --> 0:29:00.800
<v Speaker 2>sort it out, and then I go and I don't

0:29:00.840 --> 0:29:05.640
<v Speaker 2>tell anyone, and so I'm in the shadows. It's almost

0:29:06.000 --> 0:29:09.720
<v Speaker 2>I'm the complete anti hero of the twenty twenty, twenty

0:29:09.720 --> 0:29:13.760
<v Speaker 2>first century. I don't play in that conventional space. I'm

0:29:13.760 --> 0:29:18.880
<v Speaker 2>actually purposefully not in the public domain. But this one,

0:29:19.280 --> 0:29:22.600
<v Speaker 2>I had no choice because I felt that in order

0:29:22.680 --> 0:29:25.320
<v Speaker 2>to have the team come together, in order for us

0:29:25.360 --> 0:29:30.040
<v Speaker 2>to achieve what would normally be impossible, somehow we had

0:29:30.040 --> 0:29:31.960
<v Speaker 2>to be together and we had to believe that we

0:29:32.000 --> 0:29:35.320
<v Speaker 2>could do this, and that meant me being a public figure.

0:29:36.320 --> 0:29:41.040
<v Speaker 1>What is the International Tunneling Underground Space Association. How big

0:29:41.120 --> 0:29:43.320
<v Speaker 1>is it and who funds that?

0:29:44.080 --> 0:29:48.800
<v Speaker 2>Oh? So that's the peak United Nations advisory body on

0:29:48.880 --> 0:29:53.959
<v Speaker 2>the underground. It's got about eighty member nations, several hundred

0:29:53.960 --> 0:29:56.920
<v Speaker 2>thousand members. Most of them wear brown cardigans, of course,

0:29:57.480 --> 0:30:03.320
<v Speaker 2>and we just love the underground and we're responsible for

0:30:04.440 --> 0:30:10.000
<v Speaker 2>trying to promote the underground as as a way of

0:30:10.040 --> 0:30:15.240
<v Speaker 2>delivering clean water, sewage, transport and energy to the world's people.

0:30:15.600 --> 0:30:20.000
<v Speaker 2>So whether it's underground metros in cities, or water supply

0:30:20.120 --> 0:30:23.800
<v Speaker 2>clean water, or environmental protection with better drainage or whatever,

0:30:23.880 --> 0:30:29.640
<v Speaker 2>we're into the underground and we're quite influential in terms

0:30:29.640 --> 0:30:34.400
<v Speaker 2>of policy because we all love we're very nerdy bunch.

0:30:34.440 --> 0:30:35.720
<v Speaker 2>We really love the underground.

0:30:36.320 --> 0:30:36.480
<v Speaker 1>Uh.

0:30:36.720 --> 0:30:41.400
<v Speaker 2>And it's a mixture of the industry, so there is

0:30:41.440 --> 0:30:46.760
<v Speaker 2>an underground industry. So they they're involved with us, the consultants,

0:30:46.960 --> 0:30:50.800
<v Speaker 2>the universities, the we're like the nerdy nerds.

0:30:50.960 --> 0:30:57.520
<v Speaker 1>Like we're building an underground corridor here in Adelaide. You

0:30:57.640 --> 0:31:01.480
<v Speaker 1>have you been have you been consulted on it? Yep?

0:31:01.600 --> 0:31:05.480
<v Speaker 2>I have. In the early stages, I was consulted on

0:31:05.520 --> 0:31:08.920
<v Speaker 2>it and in not a very detailed way. It was

0:31:09.040 --> 0:31:11.800
<v Speaker 2>just just what do you think you think? Do you

0:31:11.840 --> 0:31:14.160
<v Speaker 2>think we can do this in Adelaide? Do you know what?

0:31:14.200 --> 0:31:18.000
<v Speaker 2>Do you just general stuff? But I I know well,

0:31:18.000 --> 0:31:19.560
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I know, well a whole lot of the

0:31:20.120 --> 0:31:23.600
<v Speaker 2>team there, and I've worked with them over decades, so

0:31:23.680 --> 0:31:27.960
<v Speaker 2>I know you've actually you've extracted somehow or other some

0:31:28.040 --> 0:31:30.600
<v Speaker 2>of the top you know, the top people from around

0:31:30.600 --> 0:31:32.840
<v Speaker 2>the country are they're in Adelaide at the moment trying

0:31:32.880 --> 0:31:33.440
<v Speaker 2>to deliver it.

0:31:33.960 --> 0:31:36.800
<v Speaker 1>It's good to hear. Can I quote you? I've got

0:31:36.840 --> 0:31:39.760
<v Speaker 1>two quotes, one from the book, but I like this one.

0:31:40.240 --> 0:31:42.840
<v Speaker 1>I'm really proud of the inner nerd. I have nerdy books,

0:31:42.880 --> 0:31:45.560
<v Speaker 1>I wear nerdy clothes, I drove a nerdy car. I

0:31:45.640 --> 0:31:49.080
<v Speaker 1>proudly go where nerds go. I'm seriously nerdy, and it's

0:31:49.120 --> 0:31:52.360
<v Speaker 1>a really nice place to be because we do good stuff.

0:31:53.800 --> 0:31:55.840
<v Speaker 1>You're not You're not. You can't be a nerd anymore.

0:31:55.880 --> 0:31:59.800
<v Speaker 2>Though, with this new no, I think maybe I'm I'm

0:31:59.880 --> 0:32:02.240
<v Speaker 2>like the new I don't know, I'm the nerd that

0:32:02.320 --> 0:32:05.440
<v Speaker 2>the nerd came out into the sun or something. No.

0:32:05.920 --> 0:32:09.280
<v Speaker 2>I think that there's a lot to be said for

0:32:09.440 --> 0:32:12.040
<v Speaker 2>people of substance, and that's what I think the nerds

0:32:12.040 --> 0:32:16.800
<v Speaker 2>are where people who do stuff like tangible things. There's

0:32:17.480 --> 0:32:20.160
<v Speaker 2>we're actually really nice. Like if the world was run

0:32:20.200 --> 0:32:24.320
<v Speaker 2>by nerds, we just sort stuff out because we're a

0:32:24.400 --> 0:32:29.080
<v Speaker 2>practical bunch, and you know we wouldn't. We're not into

0:32:29.320 --> 0:32:32.080
<v Speaker 2>wars and we're not into hating on everybody. We're just like,

0:32:33.200 --> 0:32:36.800
<v Speaker 2>you know, like we're just And so I don't mind

0:32:36.840 --> 0:32:38.440
<v Speaker 2>being called a nerd, and I do. I drive a

0:32:38.480 --> 0:32:44.200
<v Speaker 2>nerdy car. I was car well, I actually purchased and

0:32:44.320 --> 0:32:49.680
<v Speaker 2>still have the very first Toyota Prius matter like actually

0:32:49.720 --> 0:32:52.880
<v Speaker 2>sold in Australia and if you go back through the records,

0:32:52.920 --> 0:32:54.840
<v Speaker 2>I did get a bit of press about that because

0:32:55.080 --> 0:32:57.480
<v Speaker 2>people like, why on earth would you be buying the

0:32:57.520 --> 0:33:01.520
<v Speaker 2>first Prius. I'm like, because it's the right thing to do,

0:33:02.000 --> 0:33:03.320
<v Speaker 2>and that's what nerds do.

0:33:04.760 --> 0:33:06.960
<v Speaker 1>I wouldn't thought it was an Eddie car. It's still going.

0:33:06.960 --> 0:33:07.720
<v Speaker 1>How old is it now?

0:33:07.800 --> 0:33:10.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well it's twenty three years old.

0:33:11.000 --> 0:33:13.160
<v Speaker 1>Had to change the battery on it only recently.

0:33:13.240 --> 0:33:15.640
<v Speaker 2>I did the biggest issue that's actually the steering rack,

0:33:15.680 --> 0:33:18.920
<v Speaker 2>but it was on when Toyota ran an ad recently

0:33:19.000 --> 0:33:22.960
<v Speaker 2>for the multiple generations of Preus. Mine's the little green one,

0:33:23.040 --> 0:33:26.880
<v Speaker 2>because mine, I think, is the only one left, and

0:33:27.000 --> 0:33:30.560
<v Speaker 2>so I got the first. It's the alpha and Amega

0:33:30.640 --> 0:33:33.440
<v Speaker 2>of Prius is in Australia, and I've still got it.

0:33:33.920 --> 0:33:36.200
<v Speaker 1>Oh, well done, so much to talk about, so little

0:33:36.200 --> 0:33:38.400
<v Speaker 1>time left that we'll try and cover it quickly when

0:33:38.440 --> 0:33:41.960
<v Speaker 1>we come back. Arnold Dix is my guess, folks. The

0:33:42.000 --> 0:33:44.120
<v Speaker 1>book about the rescue is called The Promise, How an

0:33:44.160 --> 0:33:48.400
<v Speaker 1>everyday hero made the impossible possible. But it goes through

0:33:48.480 --> 0:33:52.760
<v Speaker 1>his life, and i'll quote after the break a paragraph

0:33:52.840 --> 0:33:57.240
<v Speaker 1>that really interested me. Back shortly, Arnold Dix is my guest, folks.

0:33:57.240 --> 0:34:00.880
<v Speaker 1>He's the president of the International Tunneling Undergrounds Based Association.

0:34:00.960 --> 0:34:04.880
<v Speaker 1>I didn't realize it was so influential. A geologist, an engineer,

0:34:05.120 --> 0:34:08.640
<v Speaker 1>he's a lawyer. He's a farmer growth gross flowers, and

0:34:09.320 --> 0:34:11.279
<v Speaker 1>was even a truck driver when he couldn't get work

0:34:11.400 --> 0:34:15.760
<v Speaker 1>during COVID. Apparently, so I want to quote from the book. Okay,

0:34:16.640 --> 0:34:20.040
<v Speaker 1>in another life, in a parallel universe where an Arnold

0:34:20.040 --> 0:34:23.360
<v Speaker 1>who is fairly similar to me exists, I would probably

0:34:23.360 --> 0:34:26.120
<v Speaker 1>have been relaxing in a gaudy mounsion in some posh

0:34:26.160 --> 0:34:29.960
<v Speaker 1>Melbourne suburb with an Italian sports car parked snugly in

0:34:29.960 --> 0:34:33.360
<v Speaker 1>a four car garage. I almost certainly would have been wealthy.

0:34:33.800 --> 0:34:36.840
<v Speaker 1>I'm certain I would have been hugely successful as a barrister,

0:34:37.320 --> 0:34:40.560
<v Speaker 1>perhaps even working as a judge. But I'm absolutely sure

0:34:40.600 --> 0:34:43.879
<v Speaker 1>that I would have been miserable. Now, he did work

0:34:43.880 --> 0:34:46.520
<v Speaker 1>as a lawyer for a certain amount of time, And

0:34:47.080 --> 0:34:47.960
<v Speaker 1>were you miserable?

0:34:49.280 --> 0:34:55.600
<v Speaker 2>Ah? Well, actually I still do. I'm still current, I'm

0:34:55.680 --> 0:34:59.160
<v Speaker 2>still one of them, and I weave my law into

0:34:59.200 --> 0:35:04.759
<v Speaker 2>what I do and I'm content, Like I really, I

0:35:04.840 --> 0:35:10.160
<v Speaker 2>really like how I've been able to blend these various

0:35:10.880 --> 0:35:13.279
<v Speaker 2>I don't know skills, I don't know whatever you call them,

0:35:13.560 --> 0:35:17.759
<v Speaker 2>to blend them into something useful. And I have what

0:35:17.840 --> 0:35:22.759
<v Speaker 2>I think money can't buy. And i'd become and I

0:35:22.800 --> 0:35:24.759
<v Speaker 2>think I've mentioned it in the book, like I was

0:35:24.960 --> 0:35:29.440
<v Speaker 2>really high performing partner in megafirm, kind of level lawyer,

0:35:29.760 --> 0:35:33.080
<v Speaker 2>Like I'm not did law by the way, like I mean,

0:35:33.560 --> 0:35:40.319
<v Speaker 2>seriously do law, but I wanted something more and I've

0:35:40.360 --> 0:35:44.640
<v Speaker 2>got it. And I think that the blending a good

0:35:44.680 --> 0:35:49.400
<v Speaker 2>dose of humanity into the practice of law. Where law

0:35:49.520 --> 0:35:54.680
<v Speaker 2>is about enabling, it's about helping other people get on

0:35:54.800 --> 0:35:57.560
<v Speaker 2>with what they're good at, as opposed to making people

0:35:57.680 --> 0:35:59.799
<v Speaker 2>fear what they do is going to get them into

0:35:59.800 --> 0:36:05.200
<v Speaker 2>try that enabling an aspect of law is just wonderful

0:36:05.239 --> 0:36:11.080
<v Speaker 2>when it's mixed in right measure with humanity, technical competence,

0:36:12.000 --> 0:36:15.960
<v Speaker 2>a vision omission and things like that. And that's what

0:36:16.000 --> 0:36:18.480
<v Speaker 2>I was really trying to say, Like I could have been,

0:36:19.360 --> 0:36:21.359
<v Speaker 2>not could have been, I imagine I could have been.

0:36:21.560 --> 0:36:25.160
<v Speaker 2>I was earning the absolute megabucks, and I walked away

0:36:25.200 --> 0:36:29.240
<v Speaker 2>from it because for me personally, I wanted something more

0:36:29.280 --> 0:36:31.560
<v Speaker 2>than that. I felt there was more and I've got it.

0:36:32.200 --> 0:36:35.680
<v Speaker 1>And I ask you, is that? I mean the found

0:36:35.760 --> 0:36:39.839
<v Speaker 1>of a group called the ALARP Group, a la RP

0:36:40.120 --> 0:36:45.160
<v Speaker 1>group from the beginning, a LARP which stands for as

0:36:45.200 --> 0:36:49.880
<v Speaker 1>low as reasonably practicable focused on protection of life and

0:36:49.920 --> 0:36:54.120
<v Speaker 1>property according to the four pillars of excellence, independence, professionalism,

0:36:54.520 --> 0:37:02.040
<v Speaker 1>and ethical conduct. Now that sounds very philosophically positive, I mean,

0:37:02.320 --> 0:37:04.320
<v Speaker 1>is it? Is it a bit airy fairy?

0:37:04.840 --> 0:37:07.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's a bit airy fairy, but but that's what

0:37:07.640 --> 0:37:12.480
<v Speaker 2>I do. And so it's not for everybody. Like a

0:37:12.520 --> 0:37:18.120
<v Speaker 2>lot of people want consultants or advisors just to reinforce

0:37:18.160 --> 0:37:23.239
<v Speaker 2>whatever decision they've made, and to hide whatever mischief or

0:37:24.600 --> 0:37:26.920
<v Speaker 2>whatever's gone wrong. Right, that's what they want, that's what

0:37:27.400 --> 0:37:29.400
<v Speaker 2>that's why you get you. And I won't mention the

0:37:29.440 --> 0:37:32.839
<v Speaker 2>acronyms of the various organizations in they don't really want

0:37:32.880 --> 0:37:36.400
<v Speaker 2>to reform. But there are some people who actually genuinely

0:37:36.400 --> 0:37:39.640
<v Speaker 2>want help, and they're the ones I'm interested in, and

0:37:39.680 --> 0:37:41.920
<v Speaker 2>they're the ones who ask me for help. And that's

0:37:42.239 --> 0:37:45.359
<v Speaker 2>that's where I earn my living. And I don't earn

0:37:45.400 --> 0:37:49.480
<v Speaker 2>my living saving people's lives. I think that's that's not right.

0:37:49.640 --> 0:37:52.160
<v Speaker 2>I don't think you should earn money if it can

0:37:52.200 --> 0:37:56.879
<v Speaker 2>possibly avoid it. It's not a money making spot. But yeah,

0:37:56.880 --> 0:37:58.800
<v Speaker 2>where people want genuine.

0:37:58.640 --> 0:38:01.040
<v Speaker 1>Without naming that can you give that's an example of that.

0:38:01.520 --> 0:38:04.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Sure. I recently got called to have a look

0:38:04.400 --> 0:38:10.880
<v Speaker 2>at an underground something somewhere and I discovered that just

0:38:11.160 --> 0:38:15.120
<v Speaker 2>literally quite quickly, that they'd forgotten the fundamental fire and

0:38:15.160 --> 0:38:19.399
<v Speaker 2>life safety engineering components to make this whatever it might

0:38:19.440 --> 0:38:22.879
<v Speaker 2>be safe. And the people I was dealing with at

0:38:22.880 --> 0:38:25.160
<v Speaker 2>the lower level of the organization were a bit edgy

0:38:25.200 --> 0:38:27.960
<v Speaker 2>about it. So I just marched into the CEO's office

0:38:27.960 --> 0:38:31.280
<v Speaker 2>and I said, here's the deal, this is the situation,

0:38:31.760 --> 0:38:34.040
<v Speaker 2>this is what I've seen. I've got no idea why

0:38:34.040 --> 0:38:36.480
<v Speaker 2>it hasn't been reported up to you. But what I

0:38:36.560 --> 0:38:38.680
<v Speaker 2>know is if I was a judge and people were

0:38:38.719 --> 0:38:41.480
<v Speaker 2>to die here tomorrow, I would send you to jail,

0:38:41.680 --> 0:38:47.520
<v Speaker 2>as the CEO, and he was like and then so

0:38:47.640 --> 0:38:50.840
<v Speaker 2>they held an immediate emergency meeting as to who and

0:38:50.880 --> 0:38:53.400
<v Speaker 2>the hell it employed me and what was I talking about.

0:38:53.800 --> 0:38:56.279
<v Speaker 2>They discovered that what I was saying was true. They

0:38:56.320 --> 0:38:59.600
<v Speaker 2>immediately employed a new person to take control of the change,

0:38:59.640 --> 0:39:03.040
<v Speaker 2>to bring the organization back into compliance, and they're sorting

0:39:03.080 --> 0:39:05.960
<v Speaker 2>it out and they thank me. That's what I do.

0:39:06.200 --> 0:39:08.800
<v Speaker 2>That's the space I'm in. You know, it'll never appear

0:39:08.800 --> 0:39:10.960
<v Speaker 2>in a book. I'll never disclose who it is. I

0:39:11.000 --> 0:39:14.600
<v Speaker 2>will never but I helped make the world a better

0:39:14.680 --> 0:39:19.320
<v Speaker 2>place for in that case. About I think it's two

0:39:19.360 --> 0:39:22.319
<v Speaker 2>million people a year and they'll never know it was me,

0:39:22.600 --> 0:39:27.839
<v Speaker 2>and it doesn't matter, and it's perfect. That's how. That's

0:39:27.880 --> 0:39:30.200
<v Speaker 2>how I like to earn my money. So when I

0:39:30.280 --> 0:39:33.200
<v Speaker 2>open up my wallet, the money that's in there, albeit

0:39:33.320 --> 0:39:38.000
<v Speaker 2>that it's not a lot, it's it's like it's nice money,

0:39:38.480 --> 0:39:39.879
<v Speaker 2>right based.

0:39:39.560 --> 0:39:45.080
<v Speaker 1>On excellence, independence, professionalism, and ethical conduct. Your body of

0:39:45.160 --> 0:39:48.120
<v Speaker 1>work is when you start to explore what you've done,

0:39:48.280 --> 0:39:51.879
<v Speaker 1>the papers you've written. The paper it's enormous, it's an

0:39:52.040 --> 0:39:55.200
<v Speaker 1>enormous volume of work over the years. I don't know

0:39:55.200 --> 0:39:57.400
<v Speaker 1>how you found that. There was one that intrigued me,

0:39:57.440 --> 0:39:59.480
<v Speaker 1>and I don't know whether I read it correctly or not.

0:40:00.200 --> 0:40:02.560
<v Speaker 1>Did you have a role in the changing of the

0:40:02.600 --> 0:40:03.960
<v Speaker 1>words of the national anthem?

0:40:05.040 --> 0:40:09.120
<v Speaker 2>Huh hm, yes, so he's on the late Peter Vickery

0:40:10.480 --> 0:40:16.880
<v Speaker 2>championed the inclusive change to the national anthem. And I was,

0:40:17.840 --> 0:40:22.200
<v Speaker 2>I'm I'm sort of like, yes, I was supportive of

0:40:22.239 --> 0:40:27.440
<v Speaker 2>Peter and you know, just that word and just changing

0:40:27.800 --> 0:40:31.000
<v Speaker 2>to be more inclusive in the national anthem was Yeah,

0:40:31.320 --> 0:40:33.640
<v Speaker 2>I don't know how you even found that like that.

0:40:33.960 --> 0:40:37.440
<v Speaker 2>I am impressed, like this, that's that's an example of

0:40:37.560 --> 0:40:40.440
<v Speaker 2>just being decent, you know, decent.

0:40:40.960 --> 0:40:46.719
<v Speaker 1>How did that gow? How easy? Was it the constitutional

0:40:47.000 --> 0:40:49.160
<v Speaker 1>issue here to change the words of a national anthem?

0:40:49.239 --> 0:40:53.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? That was and Peter, Peter really championed that and

0:40:53.880 --> 0:40:56.960
<v Speaker 2>he was passionate about it. He had a very soft

0:40:57.000 --> 0:41:03.600
<v Speaker 2>spot for in particularly for indigenous and other marginalized groups

0:41:03.640 --> 0:41:09.719
<v Speaker 2>within Australia, and that meant that he instead of young

0:41:09.760 --> 0:41:14.120
<v Speaker 2>and free, he wanted one and free and so and

0:41:14.160 --> 0:41:17.439
<v Speaker 2>the idea being that as our country matures, and as

0:41:17.520 --> 0:41:21.520
<v Speaker 2>we are so many people together, that we should celebrate

0:41:22.239 --> 0:41:25.600
<v Speaker 2>what is collectively ours, the oneness, and not be so

0:41:25.719 --> 0:41:29.680
<v Speaker 2>focused on what makes us different. And I just thought,

0:41:30.239 --> 0:41:32.400
<v Speaker 2>isn't that the future? You know? So I was happy

0:41:32.400 --> 0:41:35.000
<v Speaker 2>to support to support with that. I'm just impressed you

0:41:35.080 --> 0:41:38.640
<v Speaker 2>even found it out, like that's in my secret squirrel barrel.

0:41:39.320 --> 0:41:43.040
<v Speaker 2>You know, no one normally knows it like and it

0:41:43.200 --> 0:41:45.719
<v Speaker 2>highlights I don't I don't talk about what I do.

0:41:45.960 --> 0:41:48.399
<v Speaker 2>I just quietly try and do the right thing.

0:41:48.800 --> 0:41:51.640
<v Speaker 1>Maybe he can get the national anthem change we love that,

0:41:52.440 --> 0:41:56.799
<v Speaker 1>we love that you are we're all Australian, rather than

0:41:56.800 --> 0:41:58.839
<v Speaker 1>when we have I think I think that would be

0:41:58.920 --> 0:42:03.080
<v Speaker 1>better suited. Yeah, that's another that's another issue. Let's finish

0:42:03.160 --> 0:42:05.759
<v Speaker 1>with the book. I got the promise how on every

0:42:05.840 --> 0:42:09.239
<v Speaker 1>Day Hero made the impossible possible. There's an audio you

0:42:09.239 --> 0:42:12.319
<v Speaker 1>actually narrate the audiobook the audiobook yourself for him.

0:42:12.719 --> 0:42:12.960
<v Speaker 2>I do.

0:42:13.480 --> 0:42:15.319
<v Speaker 1>That would have been a challenge.

0:42:15.440 --> 0:42:17.880
<v Speaker 2>It was I should have. Yeah, anyone who's going to

0:42:17.880 --> 0:42:20.799
<v Speaker 2>do a book stand up, I started sitting down. It

0:42:20.880 --> 0:42:23.160
<v Speaker 2>takes a long time to read a book sitting down,

0:42:23.520 --> 0:42:25.720
<v Speaker 2>and it's kind of weird reading your own book because

0:42:25.719 --> 0:42:28.080
<v Speaker 2>then you go, I want to change that, and then

0:42:28.080 --> 0:42:30.440
<v Speaker 2>you've got a director saying you can't change it. You've

0:42:30.440 --> 0:42:32.879
<v Speaker 2>got to read it exactly as it is. And I'm like, no,

0:42:32.960 --> 0:42:35.080
<v Speaker 2>but I'm the author. I want to change it. They're like, no,

0:42:35.160 --> 0:42:35.800
<v Speaker 2>you're not allowed.

0:42:36.520 --> 0:42:37.919
<v Speaker 1>And at the back of the book you got QR

0:42:38.040 --> 0:42:41.520
<v Speaker 1>codes which take you to some of the audio visual

0:42:41.560 --> 0:42:44.000
<v Speaker 1>stuff that you've done. And there's been plenty of that too,

0:42:44.080 --> 0:42:46.400
<v Speaker 1>so that is an interesting inclusion.

0:42:46.920 --> 0:42:49.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, QR code is really important to me. I think

0:42:49.560 --> 0:42:53.279
<v Speaker 2>the book talks a lot about stuff that seems completely unbelievable,

0:42:53.719 --> 0:42:56.920
<v Speaker 2>and the QR code takes you to the real resources

0:42:56.920 --> 0:43:00.440
<v Speaker 2>from the news channels, from wherever we're a reader can go,

0:43:00.880 --> 0:43:03.920
<v Speaker 2>oh my goodness. Actually, if anything, the book is turned

0:43:03.920 --> 0:43:07.560
<v Speaker 2>the volume down on this so much there, and that's

0:43:07.640 --> 0:43:10.879
<v Speaker 2>just to help a reader if they're interested, just find

0:43:10.880 --> 0:43:11.400
<v Speaker 2>out more.

0:43:12.200 --> 0:43:14.239
<v Speaker 1>And what a delight having a chat to you. So

0:43:14.520 --> 0:43:17.560
<v Speaker 1>you do such great work. You do it almost anonymously,

0:43:17.680 --> 0:43:20.520
<v Speaker 1>except when a hundred million people click on a link

0:43:20.560 --> 0:43:25.560
<v Speaker 1>and good luck with the book. Maybe we're met one day.

0:43:25.719 --> 0:43:26.560
<v Speaker 2>Thank you Bye.

0:43:27.080 --> 0:43:29.200
<v Speaker 1>Unlottle Dix was my guest folks. The book is called

0:43:29.200 --> 0:43:32.360
<v Speaker 1>The Promise. How on everyday hero made the impossible possible.

0:43:32.360 --> 0:43:34.640
<v Speaker 1>It's a great story. Thank you for your times.