Speaker 1: In the lead up to the so called March for Australia,
Speaker 1: many people downplayed the involvement of Neo Nazis in organizing
Speaker 1: and promoting the rallies that took place in cities across
Speaker 1: the country. But in Melbourne, Neo Nazis were not just
Speaker 1: central to the march. They led it all the way
Speaker 1: to the steps of Parliament House, where a prominent Neo
Speaker 1: Nazi speech to the crowd ended in applause, if we do.
Speaker 2: Not maintain art demographics, if we do not stop immigration,
Speaker 2: then our death is shorting.
Speaker 1: Just hours later, that same man was part of a
Speaker 1: group that stormed Camp Sovereignty, an Aboriginal led site of
Speaker 1: protest and mourning, tearing down flags and tents, stomping out
Speaker 1: the campfire, and assaulting people with weapons. I'm Ruby Jones
Speaker 1: and you're listening to seven AM Today writer and seven
Speaker 1: AM co host Daniel James on why Neo Nazis targeted
Speaker 1: Camp Sovereignty and how ordinary grievances provided cover for the violence.
Speaker 1: It's Wednesday, September three, so Daniel, let's begin by talking
Speaker 1: about the attack on Camp Sovereignty in Melbourne. That attack
Speaker 1: was captured on video. Some of It was streamed live
Speaker 1: on Facebook. So can you walk me through what we
Speaker 1: know happened?
Speaker 3: It's a scene that Aboriginal people, through the history of colonization,
Speaker 3: are all too familiar with. It was all filmed. There
Speaker 3: was a sixteen minute Facebook live stream that captured the
Speaker 3: whole thing. Read about five pm on Sunday, as the
Speaker 3: light was fading, there were a handful of people as
Speaker 3: custadians of camps are already sitting around the campfire. There
Speaker 3: as of men dressed in black approached from the west.
Speaker 3: Then all of a sudden start running towards the camp, charging,
Speaker 3: yelling and all sorts of things, and started tearing the
Speaker 3: camp apart, started attacking some of the people there, who
Speaker 3: are mainly original women. They were beaten, people were kicked
Speaker 3: in the stomach, thrown to the ground. Unfortunately and horrifically,
Speaker 3: this is actually the third confrontation between now Nazis and
Speaker 3: camp members that day and a lot of questions are
Speaker 3: being asked about how it could happen. There was a
Speaker 3: huge police presence within the city. You would expect that
Speaker 3: there would be a degree of intelligence being shared between
Speaker 3: authorities in the city, and even if there wasn't Unfortunately,
Speaker 3: this attack on Camp Soeverrity was entirely predictable.
Speaker 4: Well, let's talk about why Neo Nazis targeted this site
Speaker 4: in particular, What is Camp Sovereignty Way, is it sacred?
Speaker 1: Why did they pick it?
Speaker 3: The main reason they picked it was because there was
Speaker 3: easy pickings for them. It's an area that is open
Speaker 3: to the public. It's available for anyone to go along
Speaker 3: and participate and sit around the campfire there and learned
Speaker 3: out why it is a sacred site. And the reason
Speaker 3: it's a sacred site is that it's a burial site
Speaker 3: in King's domain and the location of a permanent vigul
Speaker 3: that has been set up there since January twenty twenty four.
Speaker 3: The site is a reminder of First Nations people's survival.
Speaker 3: It is a place that is an invitation to the
Speaker 3: rest of the community to come along and sit beside
Speaker 3: Aboriginal people and find out what happened here. They came
Speaker 3: by after being humped up at the rally for Australia,
Speaker 3: on which their main head, Honcho Thomas Sell, who was
Speaker 3: a New Zealand born there Nazi and the leader of
Speaker 3: their group that we've seen, was not only just given
Speaker 3: a microphone he was actually given the keynote address on
Speaker 3: the steps of Parliament House in Melbourne.
Speaker 2: Not this new Australia that they're trying to build, but
Speaker 2: our Australia, the Australia we were put in and raised it.
Speaker 3: And on the back of that, that's the kind of
Speaker 3: validation these type of characters need. And so they would
Speaker 3: have walked away feeling validated, they would have felt emboldened.
Speaker 3: And unfortunately Camp Soeverregty is a place that is open
Speaker 3: for neo Nazis to come and defile.
Speaker 4: Let's talk a little more about the rally, how it
Speaker 4: came about, who was there, because in the days leading
Speaker 4: up to it there was talk about it being about
Speaker 4: immigration and about housing, and obviously some of that frustration
Speaker 4: that some people were feeling was weaponized by neo Nazi's
Speaker 4: life Thomas Seule, So what role do you think that
Speaker 4: Australia's media and political landscape played in how this all unfolded.
Speaker 3: The coverage and the lead up to the march for
Speaker 3: Australia was one that was characterized by ordinary Austrains being
Speaker 3: fed up with things like the cost of housing, pustioning
Speaker 3: the blame at the feet of immigrants.
Speaker 5: Crime is clearly up as a result of mass immigration
Speaker 5: in certain areas, and we're continually told on top of
Speaker 5: that that Australia is built on stolen land and that
Speaker 5: our history is something to be ashamed of. Is it
Speaker 5: any wonder then that so many regular mums dads are upset?
Speaker 3: But if you actually have a look at any sort
Speaker 3: of social media page, it was clear from the very
Speaker 3: very outset that this was a rally that was organ
Speaker 3: I was by extremists both inside and outside the Parliament.
Speaker 3: It was something that Nia Nazis were always going to attend,
Speaker 3: and there was an attempt to mainstream it by trying
Speaker 3: to get everyday Australians to come along and attend. And
Speaker 3: for my sins, I listened to talk back on a
Speaker 3: regular basis. I don't know why I do it, but
Speaker 3: I was listening on Sunday afternoon and a woman called
Speaker 3: up a commercial radio station here in Melbourne and she
Speaker 3: was going to the anti immigration rally, as she said,
Speaker 3: for her grandchildren.
Speaker 6: We're doing this because Victoria and Australia isn't the way
Speaker 6: it used to be, and you know, we're doing it
Speaker 6: for our grandchildren.
Speaker 3: Her voice was very interesting. It trembled, but there was
Speaker 3: also a defiance in her voice as well. You could
Speaker 3: sense that she was engraved danger of the Australia that
Speaker 3: she knew slipping away, and was mirrored in the evening
Speaker 3: too when I listened to talk back as well. It
Speaker 3: was just people that were insisting that they were there peacefully.
Speaker 3: They were there as an act of love. But there
Speaker 3: wasn't too much about the speech that the Nazi gave.
Speaker 3: There was nothing about the racist placards that were also there.
Speaker 3: There was nothing about the fights or the police court
Speaker 3: and that had to separate them from other protesters in
Speaker 3: the city for various reasons. And then, of course the
Speaker 3: grandmothers of the world, rightly or wrongly, are therefore able
Speaker 3: to give cover for what it was, and that was
Speaker 3: basically a far right Nazi rally.
Speaker 1: Coming up. Should this attack be treated as an act
Speaker 1: of terrorism?
Speaker 2: Prime Minister, welcome, good afternoon, Patricia.
Speaker 7: Do you think there were good people with legitimate concerns
Speaker 7: at these anti immigration reies this weekend?
Speaker 2: Of course, there's always good people will turn up to
Speaker 2: demonstrate their views about particular issues. But what we have
Speaker 2: here is neo Nazi has been given a platform that's
Speaker 2: in the.
Speaker 4: Wake of the marches on the weekend, the Prime Minister
Speaker 4: and the Albanesi said that while they were quote good
Speaker 4: people who attended these rallies, they were ultimately about selling division.
Speaker 1: So let's talk about that response. What do you make
Speaker 1: of it.
Speaker 3: This is not a time for our politicians to be
Speaker 3: really doing about with this. This is not a time
Speaker 3: for clever politicians like Anthony Albernizi and clever politicians like
Speaker 3: Susan Lee to try and weave their way through some
Speaker 3: sort of middle road.
Speaker 7: Here what units Australians will always be stronger than those
Speaker 7: who seek to divide us. That unity is at risk.
Speaker 7: The Coalition stands ready to work with the government to
Speaker 7: repair our social cohesion. Is a moment the demand's leadership.
Speaker 7: The Prime Minister must show that leadership.
Speaker 3: Now. We are now in a situation where we have
Speaker 3: neo Nazis openly on the street preaching hate against minorities,
Speaker 3: against immigrants, against First Nations people in the open. These
Speaker 3: extreme views are now being centralized, They are now being
Speaker 3: embedded within the mainstream politics of this place itself. If
Speaker 3: you want to look at the Victoria Liberal Party, for instance,
Speaker 3: you will find people that hold extreme views within the Parliament.
Speaker 3: It's very alarming to see what I would term as
Speaker 3: a placid response from our political leaders.
Speaker 2: They weren't big numbers in the scheme of things in
Speaker 2: a nation of almost twenty seven million people. Let's be
Speaker 2: clear here, So you do think.
Speaker 1: This is a tiny proportion of the Australian population, this
Speaker 1: anti immigration center.
Speaker 2: That shows that that was the case.
Speaker 3: And there's always the attack on camp so I already
Speaker 3: hasn't yet been dubbed the hate crime or a terrorist attack.
Speaker 3: What other way could you describe it? It wasn't a
Speaker 3: fight over property, or wasn't an aggurvated burglary. It was
Speaker 3: there to destroy the camp and to destroy in many
Speaker 3: ways the movement that Aboriginal people have set up for
Speaker 3: ourselves there. So the response from our political leaders so
Speaker 3: far has been wishy washy at best and appeasing at worst.
Speaker 1: And so late yesterday afternoon, Thomas Saw and two others
Speaker 1: were arrested in relation to the attack.
Speaker 6: What happened in the ny of Victoria.
Speaker 7: You're under arrested the burny yourself.
Speaker 1: Of course, there were many other people involved. So as
Speaker 1: the investigation goes on, what do you think needs to
Speaker 1: happen from here, what do.
Speaker 3: We need to do from here? I mean, my view
Speaker 3: is that sovereign citizen movement and the Nazi movement in
Speaker 3: Australia need to be categorized as terrorist groups because as
Speaker 3: they are becoming increasingly emboldened, people are dying, people are
Speaker 3: getting beaten up, and it's fraying at the civility of
Speaker 3: our society. And the mainstream media has a fair degree
Speaker 3: of blame when it comes to that. The algorithms that
Speaker 3: our social media sites that we use, such as Meta,
Speaker 3: send people down rabbit holes so deeply that there is
Speaker 3: seemingly no way for them to come back and join
Speaker 3: us here in the real world. We need to start
Speaker 3: taking this incredibly seriously, and I'm not sure that our
Speaker 3: political leadership or our security agencies are taking this as
Speaker 3: seriously as they should. What happened on Sunday should never
Speaker 3: have happened.
Speaker 1: And when you look at the scale of what occurred,
Speaker 1: it's estimated that there were more than twenty thousand people
Speaker 1: attending these protests in cities across the country, which is
Speaker 1: not an insignificant amount of people. So what does that
Speaker 1: reveal to you about where the country is at right
Speaker 1: now and the extent to which these beliefs have taken.
Speaker 3: Hold, they've become more and more mainstream, they have become
Speaker 3: more and more acceptable. The level of hate that is
Speaker 3: fired at our authorities, at our political leadership, the level
Speaker 3: of hate that is of course fired at Aboriginal people
Speaker 3: and other marginalized communities is out in the open, and
Speaker 3: so people are being emboldened to say these things. And
Speaker 3: the more that these things are said, and the more
Speaker 3: that these things are heard, the more likely it is
Speaker 3: that there is going to be action like we saw
Speaker 3: on Sunday against innocent people at Camp Sovereignty.
Speaker 1: I describe it as an act of terror, actually, as
Speaker 1: a terrorist act.
Speaker 2: Terrorize those followers, and very scary for those people.
Speaker 3: Uncle Robbie Thorpe, he's one of our respected elders here
Speaker 3: and basically the man who can be attributed to setting
Speaker 3: up Camp Soeverrity. He's made a very good point. There
Speaker 3: has been new hate laws that have come out to
Speaker 3: protect places of worship, and this is something that Senator
Speaker 3: Lydia Thorpe has also come out and question. She's asked
Speaker 3: the question, how do you define a place of worship?
Speaker 3: Aboriginal places of worship? There are no buildings. Ostensibly, Camp
Speaker 3: Soeverrity is a place of worship. It's a place of remembrance.
Speaker 3: It is a place where we go to heal and
Speaker 3: to move forward and to educate. Is that a place
Speaker 3: of worship? And should that be protected under hate laws?
Speaker 3: We have covered for mosques and synagogues, and rightfully so.
Speaker 3: But the question needs to be asked. Can Aboriginal people
Speaker 3: worship their elders, worship their own spirituality, worshiped land without
Speaker 3: fear of being attacked by Nazi extremists?
Speaker 1: And the people who were attacked at Camp Sovereignty, how
Speaker 1: are they doing?
Speaker 3: Deeply deeply rattled For people were injured, two were taken
Speaker 3: to hospital with head wounds. But I think it's fair
Speaker 3: enough to say that the whole a community has been
Speaker 3: injured by this. What happened on Sunday was had all
Speaker 3: the hallmarks of a massacre. We've had hundreds of massacres
Speaker 3: in this country at the hands of white men approaching
Speaker 3: camps at low light when there are only a handful
Speaker 3: of people around to commit acts of violence. Now, the
Speaker 3: only thing that was separate from what happened on Sunday
Speaker 3: and what has happened throughout the history of this place
Speaker 3: was the body count and the fact that there were
Speaker 3: witnesses there, the fact that there were people filming it.
Speaker 3: One would hate to think what would happen if this
Speaker 3: was actually out of the bush somewhere and a group
Speaker 3: of emboldened Neo Nazis came upon an Aboriginal camp site.
Speaker 3: How far could it have gone? These are questions that
Speaker 3: are not rhetorical. These are questions that need to be
Speaker 3: asked with a degree of sobriety in the cold, hard
Speaker 3: light of day, because these movements are getting away from
Speaker 3: the authorities, They're getting away from our ability to contain them,
Speaker 3: and they have shown that once they've given a little
Speaker 3: bit of validation, they become more and more emboldened, more
Speaker 3: and more extreme, And I just hate to think what
Speaker 3: will happen next.
Speaker 1: Well, Daniel, thank you so much for speaking with me.
Speaker 3: Thanks Ruby.
Speaker 1: Also in the news today, the number of people entering
Speaker 1: Australia through the permanent migration program will remain unchanged, with
Speaker 1: the government maintaining its annual cap of one hundred and
Speaker 1: eighty five thousand places. The federal government says it's undertaken
Speaker 1: consultations with the states and territories which recommended maintaining the
Speaker 1: size and composition of the program and Elon Musk has
Speaker 1: shared a post on his social media platform X that
Speaker 1: wrongly claims one hundred and fifty thousand people took part
Speaker 1: in anti immigration protests Sydney in Brisbane, despite police estimating
Speaker 1: the total in attendance was about twenty one thousand. New
Speaker 1: South Wales Police saying estimated fifteen thousand people attended the
Speaker 1: rally in Sydney. Queensland Police confirmed about six thousand protesters
Speaker 1: came out in Brisbane and did Melbourne Police estimate five
Speaker 1: thousand took to the streets, but that figure also includes counterprotesters.
Speaker 1: I'm Ruby Jones. This is seven am. See you tomorrow.