WEBVTT - How a mainstream protest gave cover to neo-Nazi violence 0:00:00.840 --> 0:00:03.320 In the lead up to the so called March for Australia, 0:00:03.560 --> 0:00:07.280 many people downplayed the involvement of Neo Nazis in organizing 0:00:07.320 --> 0:00:10.280 and promoting the rallies that took place in cities across 0:00:10.280 --> 0:00:19.119 the country. But in Melbourne, Neo Nazis were not just 0:00:19.200 --> 0:00:21.640 central to the march. They led it all the way 0:00:21.640 --> 0:00:24.400 to the steps of Parliament House, where a prominent Neo 0:00:24.440 --> 0:00:28.080 Nazi speech to the crowd ended in applause, if we do. 0:00:28.080 --> 0:00:32.720 Not maintain art demographics, if we do not stop immigration, 0:00:33.320 --> 0:00:34.800 then our death is shorting. 0:00:37.680 --> 0:00:39.839 Just hours later, that same man was part of a 0:00:39.880 --> 0:00:43.360 group that stormed Camp Sovereignty, an Aboriginal led site of 0:00:43.360 --> 0:00:47.279 protest and mourning, tearing down flags and tents, stomping out 0:00:47.320 --> 0:00:54.840 the campfire, and assaulting people with weapons. I'm Ruby Jones 0:00:55.000 --> 0:00:58.800 and you're listening to seven AM Today writer and seven 0:00:58.840 --> 0:01:02.560 AM co host Daniel James on why Neo Nazis targeted 0:01:02.600 --> 0:01:07.360 Camp Sovereignty and how ordinary grievances provided cover for the violence. 0:01:11.400 --> 0:01:20.680 It's Wednesday, September three, so Daniel, let's begin by talking 0:01:20.720 --> 0:01:24.480 about the attack on Camp Sovereignty in Melbourne. That attack 0:01:24.560 --> 0:01:28.720 was captured on video. Some of It was streamed live 0:01:28.840 --> 0:01:32.280 on Facebook. So can you walk me through what we 0:01:32.319 --> 0:01:32.960 know happened? 0:01:33.560 --> 0:01:38.720 It's a scene that Aboriginal people, through the history of colonization, 0:01:39.360 --> 0:01:43.319 are all too familiar with. It was all filmed. There 0:01:43.400 --> 0:01:46.399 was a sixteen minute Facebook live stream that captured the 0:01:46.400 --> 0:01:50.560 whole thing. Read about five pm on Sunday, as the 0:01:50.640 --> 0:01:55.480 light was fading, there were a handful of people as 0:01:55.480 --> 0:01:58.760 custadians of camps are already sitting around the campfire. There 0:02:00.080 --> 0:02:03.000 as of men dressed in black approached from the west. 0:02:03.440 --> 0:02:06.280 Then all of a sudden start running towards the camp, charging, 0:02:06.360 --> 0:02:09.960 yelling and all sorts of things, and started tearing the 0:02:09.960 --> 0:02:21.679 camp apart, started attacking some of the people there, who 0:02:21.680 --> 0:02:26.880 are mainly original women. They were beaten, people were kicked 0:02:26.880 --> 0:02:38.560 in the stomach, thrown to the ground. Unfortunately and horrifically, 0:02:38.560 --> 0:02:41.760 this is actually the third confrontation between now Nazis and 0:02:41.840 --> 0:02:45.919 camp members that day and a lot of questions are 0:02:45.919 --> 0:02:48.760 being asked about how it could happen. There was a 0:02:48.840 --> 0:02:52.160 huge police presence within the city. You would expect that 0:02:52.200 --> 0:02:55.320 there would be a degree of intelligence being shared between 0:02:55.440 --> 0:02:59.960 authorities in the city, and even if there wasn't Unfortunately, 0:03:00.240 --> 0:03:04.119 this attack on Camp Soeverrity was entirely predictable. 0:03:05.680 --> 0:03:09.600 Well, let's talk about why Neo Nazis targeted this site 0:03:09.639 --> 0:03:13.680 in particular, What is Camp Sovereignty Way, is it sacred? 0:03:13.840 --> 0:03:14.760 Why did they pick it? 0:03:15.040 --> 0:03:17.160 The main reason they picked it was because there was 0:03:17.200 --> 0:03:20.160 easy pickings for them. It's an area that is open 0:03:20.480 --> 0:03:24.560 to the public. It's available for anyone to go along 0:03:24.639 --> 0:03:27.959 and participate and sit around the campfire there and learned 0:03:28.000 --> 0:03:31.280 out why it is a sacred site. And the reason 0:03:31.280 --> 0:03:33.680 it's a sacred site is that it's a burial site 0:03:33.800 --> 0:03:38.400 in King's domain and the location of a permanent vigul 0:03:38.400 --> 0:03:41.400 that has been set up there since January twenty twenty four. 0:03:42.080 --> 0:03:46.160 The site is a reminder of First Nations people's survival. 0:03:47.000 --> 0:03:49.800 It is a place that is an invitation to the 0:03:49.840 --> 0:03:53.920 rest of the community to come along and sit beside 0:03:53.960 --> 0:03:58.600 Aboriginal people and find out what happened here. They came 0:03:58.680 --> 0:04:02.800 by after being humped up at the rally for Australia, 0:04:02.880 --> 0:04:06.960 on which their main head, Honcho Thomas Sell, who was 0:04:07.000 --> 0:04:10.720 a New Zealand born there Nazi and the leader of 0:04:10.760 --> 0:04:13.160 their group that we've seen, was not only just given 0:04:13.160 --> 0:04:16.080 a microphone he was actually given the keynote address on 0:04:16.120 --> 0:04:18.160 the steps of Parliament House in Melbourne. 0:04:18.839 --> 0:04:22.520 Not this new Australia that they're trying to build, but 0:04:22.720 --> 0:04:26.800 our Australia, the Australia we were put in and raised it. 0:04:27.360 --> 0:04:29.159 And on the back of that, that's the kind of 0:04:29.200 --> 0:04:33.000 validation these type of characters need. And so they would 0:04:33.000 --> 0:04:36.680 have walked away feeling validated, they would have felt emboldened. 0:04:37.680 --> 0:04:41.719 And unfortunately Camp Soeverregty is a place that is open 0:04:42.040 --> 0:04:44.080 for neo Nazis to come and defile. 0:04:45.320 --> 0:04:48.000 Let's talk a little more about the rally, how it 0:04:48.040 --> 0:04:51.400 came about, who was there, because in the days leading 0:04:51.520 --> 0:04:53.919 up to it there was talk about it being about 0:04:53.920 --> 0:05:00.200 immigration and about housing, and obviously some of that frustration 0:05:00.320 --> 0:05:03.800 that some people were feeling was weaponized by neo Nazi's 0:05:03.839 --> 0:05:08.320 life Thomas Seule, So what role do you think that 0:05:08.360 --> 0:05:13.960 Australia's media and political landscape played in how this all unfolded. 0:05:14.360 --> 0:05:17.640 The coverage and the lead up to the march for 0:05:17.720 --> 0:05:24.159 Australia was one that was characterized by ordinary Austrains being 0:05:24.520 --> 0:05:29.400 fed up with things like the cost of housing, pustioning 0:05:29.440 --> 0:05:33.000 the blame at the feet of immigrants. 0:05:32.800 --> 0:05:36.760 Crime is clearly up as a result of mass immigration 0:05:36.920 --> 0:05:40.440 in certain areas, and we're continually told on top of 0:05:40.480 --> 0:05:43.599 that that Australia is built on stolen land and that 0:05:43.680 --> 0:05:45.520 our history is something to be ashamed of. Is it 0:05:45.600 --> 0:05:50.359 any wonder then that so many regular mums dads are upset? 0:05:50.720 --> 0:05:54.039 But if you actually have a look at any sort 0:05:54.040 --> 0:05:57.080 of social media page, it was clear from the very 0:05:57.160 --> 0:05:59.920 very outset that this was a rally that was organ 0:06:00.080 --> 0:06:03.640 I was by extremists both inside and outside the Parliament. 0:06:04.080 --> 0:06:07.680 It was something that Nia Nazis were always going to attend, 0:06:08.080 --> 0:06:12.159 and there was an attempt to mainstream it by trying 0:06:12.160 --> 0:06:15.680 to get everyday Australians to come along and attend. And 0:06:16.279 --> 0:06:18.919 for my sins, I listened to talk back on a 0:06:18.920 --> 0:06:21.360 regular basis. I don't know why I do it, but 0:06:22.200 --> 0:06:25.599 I was listening on Sunday afternoon and a woman called 0:06:25.680 --> 0:06:29.760 up a commercial radio station here in Melbourne and she 0:06:29.839 --> 0:06:32.520 was going to the anti immigration rally, as she said, 0:06:32.560 --> 0:06:33.599 for her grandchildren. 0:06:33.920 --> 0:06:38.760 We're doing this because Victoria and Australia isn't the way 0:06:39.240 --> 0:06:43.400 it used to be, and you know, we're doing it 0:06:43.400 --> 0:06:44.520 for our grandchildren. 0:06:45.279 --> 0:06:48.560 Her voice was very interesting. It trembled, but there was 0:06:48.600 --> 0:06:52.640 also a defiance in her voice as well. You could 0:06:52.720 --> 0:06:56.520 sense that she was engraved danger of the Australia that 0:06:56.600 --> 0:07:01.440 she knew slipping away, and was mirrored in the evening 0:07:01.440 --> 0:07:03.440 too when I listened to talk back as well. It 0:07:03.520 --> 0:07:07.000 was just people that were insisting that they were there peacefully. 0:07:07.480 --> 0:07:10.760 They were there as an act of love. But there 0:07:10.840 --> 0:07:14.160 wasn't too much about the speech that the Nazi gave. 0:07:14.320 --> 0:07:18.160 There was nothing about the racist placards that were also there. 0:07:18.360 --> 0:07:21.560 There was nothing about the fights or the police court 0:07:21.600 --> 0:07:24.600 and that had to separate them from other protesters in 0:07:24.640 --> 0:07:28.160 the city for various reasons. And then, of course the 0:07:28.200 --> 0:07:32.360 grandmothers of the world, rightly or wrongly, are therefore able 0:07:32.440 --> 0:07:34.600 to give cover for what it was, and that was 0:07:35.080 --> 0:07:37.520 basically a far right Nazi rally. 0:07:41.120 --> 0:07:43.840 Coming up. Should this attack be treated as an act 0:07:43.880 --> 0:07:52.880 of terrorism? 0:07:53.040 --> 0:07:55.560 Prime Minister, welcome, good afternoon, Patricia. 0:07:55.640 --> 0:07:58.640 Do you think there were good people with legitimate concerns 0:07:58.640 --> 0:08:00.680 at these anti immigration reies this weekend? 0:08:00.840 --> 0:08:03.760 Of course, there's always good people will turn up to 0:08:03.800 --> 0:08:08.560 demonstrate their views about particular issues. But what we have 0:08:08.760 --> 0:08:14.120 here is neo Nazi has been given a platform that's 0:08:14.520 --> 0:08:14.840 in the. 0:08:14.840 --> 0:08:18.560 Wake of the marches on the weekend, the Prime Minister 0:08:19.280 --> 0:08:22.520 and the Albanesi said that while they were quote good 0:08:22.560 --> 0:08:27.120 people who attended these rallies, they were ultimately about selling division. 0:08:27.720 --> 0:08:31.400 So let's talk about that response. What do you make 0:08:31.440 --> 0:08:31.720 of it. 0:08:32.000 --> 0:08:34.760 This is not a time for our politicians to be 0:08:35.480 --> 0:08:38.840 really doing about with this. This is not a time 0:08:39.760 --> 0:08:44.000 for clever politicians like Anthony Albernizi and clever politicians like 0:08:44.080 --> 0:08:46.600 Susan Lee to try and weave their way through some 0:08:46.640 --> 0:08:47.520 sort of middle road. 0:08:47.760 --> 0:08:51.880 Here what units Australians will always be stronger than those 0:08:51.920 --> 0:08:54.520 who seek to divide us. That unity is at risk. 0:08:55.040 --> 0:08:57.640 The Coalition stands ready to work with the government to 0:08:57.720 --> 0:09:02.160 repair our social cohesion. Is a moment the demand's leadership. 0:09:02.400 --> 0:09:05.000 The Prime Minister must show that leadership. 0:09:05.120 --> 0:09:08.200 Now. We are now in a situation where we have 0:09:08.360 --> 0:09:13.880 neo Nazis openly on the street preaching hate against minorities, 0:09:13.920 --> 0:09:18.880 against immigrants, against First Nations people in the open. These 0:09:18.920 --> 0:09:22.199 extreme views are now being centralized, They are now being 0:09:22.600 --> 0:09:26.520 embedded within the mainstream politics of this place itself. If 0:09:26.559 --> 0:09:28.960 you want to look at the Victoria Liberal Party, for instance, 0:09:28.960 --> 0:09:33.320 you will find people that hold extreme views within the Parliament. 0:09:34.200 --> 0:09:36.800 It's very alarming to see what I would term as 0:09:36.800 --> 0:09:39.920 a placid response from our political leaders. 0:09:40.320 --> 0:09:42.520 They weren't big numbers in the scheme of things in 0:09:42.559 --> 0:09:46.680 a nation of almost twenty seven million people. Let's be 0:09:46.800 --> 0:09:48.439 clear here, So you do think. 0:09:48.280 --> 0:09:51.880 This is a tiny proportion of the Australian population, this 0:09:51.920 --> 0:09:53.280 anti immigration center. 0:09:53.080 --> 0:09:55.000 That shows that that was the case. 0:09:55.040 --> 0:09:57.200 And there's always the attack on camp so I already 0:09:57.240 --> 0:09:59.800 hasn't yet been dubbed the hate crime or a terrorist attack. 0:10:00.440 --> 0:10:03.080 What other way could you describe it? It wasn't a 0:10:03.080 --> 0:10:06.800 fight over property, or wasn't an aggurvated burglary. It was 0:10:06.840 --> 0:10:10.680 there to destroy the camp and to destroy in many 0:10:10.720 --> 0:10:15.080 ways the movement that Aboriginal people have set up for 0:10:15.240 --> 0:10:19.960 ourselves there. So the response from our political leaders so 0:10:20.160 --> 0:10:27.120 far has been wishy washy at best and appeasing at worst. 0:10:28.320 --> 0:10:31.920 And so late yesterday afternoon, Thomas Saw and two others 0:10:32.000 --> 0:10:34.320 were arrested in relation to the attack. 0:10:35.080 --> 0:10:36.880 What happened in the ny of Victoria. 0:10:38.320 --> 0:10:40.320 You're under arrested the burny yourself. 0:10:41.000 --> 0:10:44.680 Of course, there were many other people involved. So as 0:10:44.760 --> 0:10:47.600 the investigation goes on, what do you think needs to 0:10:47.640 --> 0:10:49.160 happen from here, what do. 0:10:49.080 --> 0:10:51.120 We need to do from here? I mean, my view 0:10:51.200 --> 0:10:55.439 is that sovereign citizen movement and the Nazi movement in 0:10:55.840 --> 0:11:00.200 Australia need to be categorized as terrorist groups because as 0:11:00.200 --> 0:11:04.160 they are becoming increasingly emboldened, people are dying, people are 0:11:04.160 --> 0:11:07.520 getting beaten up, and it's fraying at the civility of 0:11:07.920 --> 0:11:12.679 our society. And the mainstream media has a fair degree 0:11:12.720 --> 0:11:16.480 of blame when it comes to that. The algorithms that 0:11:16.559 --> 0:11:19.479 our social media sites that we use, such as Meta, 0:11:19.760 --> 0:11:21.920 send people down rabbit holes so deeply that there is 0:11:21.960 --> 0:11:24.120 seemingly no way for them to come back and join 0:11:24.200 --> 0:11:26.840 us here in the real world. We need to start 0:11:26.880 --> 0:11:31.640 taking this incredibly seriously, and I'm not sure that our 0:11:31.679 --> 0:11:36.000 political leadership or our security agencies are taking this as 0:11:36.040 --> 0:11:39.400 seriously as they should. What happened on Sunday should never 0:11:39.440 --> 0:11:39.959 have happened. 0:11:40.360 --> 0:11:43.160 And when you look at the scale of what occurred, 0:11:43.520 --> 0:11:46.800 it's estimated that there were more than twenty thousand people 0:11:46.840 --> 0:11:50.720 attending these protests in cities across the country, which is 0:11:50.760 --> 0:11:53.800 not an insignificant amount of people. So what does that 0:11:53.880 --> 0:11:56.480 reveal to you about where the country is at right 0:11:56.520 --> 0:12:01.160 now and the extent to which these beliefs have taken. 0:12:00.880 --> 0:12:05.360 Hold, they've become more and more mainstream, they have become 0:12:05.400 --> 0:12:08.839 more and more acceptable. The level of hate that is 0:12:09.559 --> 0:12:14.080 fired at our authorities, at our political leadership, the level 0:12:14.120 --> 0:12:17.800 of hate that is of course fired at Aboriginal people 0:12:17.840 --> 0:12:22.600 and other marginalized communities is out in the open, and 0:12:22.640 --> 0:12:27.760 so people are being emboldened to say these things. And 0:12:27.920 --> 0:12:29.840 the more that these things are said, and the more 0:12:29.880 --> 0:12:32.680 that these things are heard, the more likely it is 0:12:32.720 --> 0:12:34.560 that there is going to be action like we saw 0:12:34.600 --> 0:12:38.160 on Sunday against innocent people at Camp Sovereignty. 0:12:38.880 --> 0:12:41.000 I describe it as an act of terror, actually, as 0:12:41.000 --> 0:12:41.880 a terrorist act. 0:12:43.840 --> 0:12:46.800 Terrorize those followers, and very scary for those people. 0:12:47.360 --> 0:12:50.679 Uncle Robbie Thorpe, he's one of our respected elders here 0:12:50.880 --> 0:12:55.120 and basically the man who can be attributed to setting 0:12:55.200 --> 0:12:58.520 up Camp Soeverrity. He's made a very good point. There 0:12:58.520 --> 0:13:00.400 has been new hate laws that have come out to 0:13:00.440 --> 0:13:04.280 protect places of worship, and this is something that Senator 0:13:04.320 --> 0:13:08.720 Lydia Thorpe has also come out and question. She's asked 0:13:08.720 --> 0:13:11.600 the question, how do you define a place of worship? 0:13:12.360 --> 0:13:15.920 Aboriginal places of worship? There are no buildings. Ostensibly, Camp 0:13:15.920 --> 0:13:18.800 Soeverrity is a place of worship. It's a place of remembrance. 0:13:18.840 --> 0:13:22.079 It is a place where we go to heal and 0:13:22.440 --> 0:13:24.760 to move forward and to educate. Is that a place 0:13:24.800 --> 0:13:27.280 of worship? And should that be protected under hate laws? 0:13:27.880 --> 0:13:30.720 We have covered for mosques and synagogues, and rightfully so. 0:13:31.600 --> 0:13:35.240 But the question needs to be asked. Can Aboriginal people 0:13:36.000 --> 0:13:41.120 worship their elders, worship their own spirituality, worshiped land without 0:13:41.640 --> 0:13:44.960 fear of being attacked by Nazi extremists? 0:13:46.080 --> 0:13:49.360 And the people who were attacked at Camp Sovereignty, how 0:13:49.360 --> 0:13:50.000 are they doing? 0:13:50.520 --> 0:13:54.839 Deeply deeply rattled For people were injured, two were taken 0:13:54.880 --> 0:13:57.679 to hospital with head wounds. But I think it's fair 0:13:57.920 --> 0:14:01.439 enough to say that the whole a community has been 0:14:01.600 --> 0:14:06.280 injured by this. What happened on Sunday was had all 0:14:06.280 --> 0:14:09.680 the hallmarks of a massacre. We've had hundreds of massacres 0:14:09.800 --> 0:14:13.800 in this country at the hands of white men approaching 0:14:14.200 --> 0:14:18.760 camps at low light when there are only a handful 0:14:18.800 --> 0:14:22.880 of people around to commit acts of violence. Now, the 0:14:22.920 --> 0:14:25.720 only thing that was separate from what happened on Sunday 0:14:25.960 --> 0:14:29.080 and what has happened throughout the history of this place 0:14:29.800 --> 0:14:31.680 was the body count and the fact that there were 0:14:31.720 --> 0:14:34.200 witnesses there, the fact that there were people filming it. 0:14:34.480 --> 0:14:36.280 One would hate to think what would happen if this 0:14:36.360 --> 0:14:39.400 was actually out of the bush somewhere and a group 0:14:39.400 --> 0:14:44.520 of emboldened Neo Nazis came upon an Aboriginal camp site. 0:14:44.960 --> 0:14:47.680 How far could it have gone? These are questions that 0:14:47.720 --> 0:14:49.760 are not rhetorical. These are questions that need to be 0:14:49.800 --> 0:14:53.640 asked with a degree of sobriety in the cold, hard 0:14:53.720 --> 0:14:58.000 light of day, because these movements are getting away from 0:14:58.040 --> 0:15:01.320 the authorities, They're getting away from our ability to contain them, 0:15:01.920 --> 0:15:04.680 and they have shown that once they've given a little 0:15:04.720 --> 0:15:08.120 bit of validation, they become more and more emboldened, more 0:15:08.160 --> 0:15:12.040 and more extreme, And I just hate to think what 0:15:12.120 --> 0:15:13.400 will happen next. 0:15:15.600 --> 0:15:18.000 Well, Daniel, thank you so much for speaking with me. 0:15:18.360 --> 0:15:22.640 Thanks Ruby. 0:15:30.280 --> 0:15:33.000 Also in the news today, the number of people entering 0:15:33.000 --> 0:15:37.280 Australia through the permanent migration program will remain unchanged, with 0:15:37.360 --> 0:15:40.040 the government maintaining its annual cap of one hundred and 0:15:40.080 --> 0:15:44.000 eighty five thousand places. The federal government says it's undertaken 0:15:44.040 --> 0:15:48.080 consultations with the states and territories which recommended maintaining the 0:15:48.120 --> 0:15:52.280 size and composition of the program and Elon Musk has 0:15:52.320 --> 0:15:55.000 shared a post on his social media platform X that 0:15:55.120 --> 0:15:58.200 wrongly claims one hundred and fifty thousand people took part 0:15:58.200 --> 0:16:02.720 in anti immigration protests Sydney in Brisbane, despite police estimating 0:16:02.720 --> 0:16:06.040 the total in attendance was about twenty one thousand. New 0:16:06.040 --> 0:16:09.120 South Wales Police saying estimated fifteen thousand people attended the 0:16:09.200 --> 0:16:13.280 rally in Sydney. Queensland Police confirmed about six thousand protesters 0:16:13.320 --> 0:16:16.480 came out in Brisbane and did Melbourne Police estimate five 0:16:16.520 --> 0:16:20.560 thousand took to the streets, but that figure also includes counterprotesters. 0:16:21.240 --> 0:16:29.680 I'm Ruby Jones. This is seven am. See you tomorrow.