WEBVTT - Target on her back: Deborah Locke Pt. 2 0:00:01.880 --> 0:00:04.880 The public has had a long held fascination with detectives. 0:00:05.360 --> 0:00:08.039 Detective see a side of life the average persons never 0:00:08.119 --> 0:00:11.119 exposed her. I spent thirty four years as a cop. 0:00:11.560 --> 0:00:14.040 For twenty five of those years I was catching killers. 0:00:14.440 --> 0:00:16.200 That's what I did for a living. I was a 0:00:16.200 --> 0:00:20.560 homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead, 0:00:20.600 --> 0:00:23.120 I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated. 0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:26.400 The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories 0:00:26.440 --> 0:00:28.760 from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:31.440 and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some 0:00:31.600 --> 0:00:34.640 of the content and language might be confronting. That's because 0:00:34.640 --> 0:00:37.640 no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged. 0:00:38.159 --> 0:00:40.360 Join me now as I take you into this world. 0:00:45.280 --> 0:00:47.720 Welcome back to part two of my chat with former 0:00:47.800 --> 0:00:51.640 New South Wales detective and whistleblower Deborah Locke. If you 0:00:51.720 --> 0:00:54.040 listen to part one, I think you would have been 0:00:54.080 --> 0:00:57.720 shocked by what Deborah experience as a young female cop 0:00:57.720 --> 0:01:00.920 in the eighties. Well, her life did get any simpler 0:01:00.960 --> 0:01:04.520 after she reported the corruption she'd seen as a young detective, 0:01:06.080 --> 0:01:08.840 and as you will find out in Part two, things 0:01:08.840 --> 0:01:12.240 in fact got a lot worse. I love policing, but 0:01:12.280 --> 0:01:15.840 there were aspects about what occurred in policing that did 0:01:15.880 --> 0:01:19.520 bring shame to police forces across the country. Welcome back 0:01:19.560 --> 0:01:22.920 to part two of our Catch Killers. If people have 0:01:23.000 --> 0:01:26.800 been listening to part one, they're probably thinking, is what 0:01:27.000 --> 0:01:29.720 is this world we talk of or you talk of? 0:01:29.720 --> 0:01:30.160 Bob Bla. 0:01:31.959 --> 0:01:33.280 You know, because you were there. 0:01:33.240 --> 0:01:36.760 I know, and I think and the only way I 0:01:37.120 --> 0:01:39.200 can sort of you look back at it and come 0:01:39.240 --> 0:01:42.200 to terms with it. Society was changing. It was the 0:01:42.240 --> 0:01:42.960 wild time. 0:01:42.800 --> 0:01:43.760 So wasn't it. 0:01:43.760 --> 0:01:46.160 It was a wild West? Yeah, yeah, And it wasn't 0:01:46.280 --> 0:01:49.800 like society or the community saw what was going. This 0:01:49.920 --> 0:01:54.240 was like a little bubble, like the jobs, like a 0:01:54.360 --> 0:01:57.320 closed family. Like what happens and what's seen and what 0:01:57.360 --> 0:01:58.200 starts not normal? 0:01:58.400 --> 0:02:01.240 Now, before we go on, because because I think if 0:02:01.280 --> 0:02:03.040 people have listened to part one and now we're going 0:02:03.080 --> 0:02:05.760 to talk about what you've been through in part two 0:02:06.160 --> 0:02:09.480 and look your your journey is a classic and let's 0:02:09.639 --> 0:02:12.560 balance it out. Is a classic example of why there 0:02:12.600 --> 0:02:15.120 needs to be accountability in policing. Because I think what 0:02:15.200 --> 0:02:16.800 went wrong with some of the squads you were in 0:02:16.840 --> 0:02:18.079 there was now accountability. 0:02:18.120 --> 0:02:20.519 Well they all just closed them down, They closed down 0:02:20.560 --> 0:02:23.600 the consorts, they closed down the gaming squad. You know, 0:02:23.639 --> 0:02:26.920 they closed down the savants. They closed offices of sixty 0:02:27.000 --> 0:02:32.480 officers because you know, they just weren't actually doing anything 0:02:32.760 --> 0:02:35.320 or they were so the culture there was so bad 0:02:35.919 --> 0:02:37.880 and they all got an embasty and we're allowed to 0:02:37.919 --> 0:02:41.000 just walk and resign and not take their pension. And 0:02:41.040 --> 0:02:45.160 there was bloody hundreds and hundreds took that option, which 0:02:45.200 --> 0:02:47.040 hate me because of that, you know, Oh my god. 0:02:47.440 --> 0:02:48.760 But you know. 0:02:50.280 --> 0:02:53.080 It's another popularity popularity comment. 0:02:54.960 --> 0:02:59.880 Yeah, excited, but you know it's yeah, it's bloody red 0:03:00.120 --> 0:03:00.959 kill us, isn't it. 0:03:01.000 --> 0:03:04.400 But like what they're bought in on the back of 0:03:04.200 --> 0:03:08.880 the Royal Commission and all the changes that accountability. But 0:03:08.880 --> 0:03:11.280 they've got to get the balance right too, because I 0:03:11.639 --> 0:03:15.240 would get frustrated in homicide that I would joke that 0:03:15.280 --> 0:03:18.160 my team started doing actual homicide work at about one 0:03:18.160 --> 0:03:20.600 o'clock in the afternoon because of all the admin stuff 0:03:20.600 --> 0:03:23.520 that they had to do. But I also in the 0:03:23.560 --> 0:03:27.440 police and corruption in my mind has changed from the 0:03:27.560 --> 0:03:29.560 days that you talk about where it was money and 0:03:29.680 --> 0:03:34.920 you know, everything else that went on, is now people 0:03:35.080 --> 0:03:40.240 are just not working. They're just not doing what they 0:03:40.240 --> 0:03:40.720 should do. 0:03:40.960 --> 0:03:43.520 This is a real shift of this where they just 0:03:44.920 --> 0:03:46.080 the populations grow on. 0:03:46.360 --> 0:03:46.560 Yep. 0:03:47.000 --> 0:03:51.000 You know this is with schools, hospitals, you know everything, 0:03:51.200 --> 0:03:54.480 But with the cops and they just sort of they 0:03:54.560 --> 0:03:56.960 just fob you off. They don't do they don't do 0:03:57.040 --> 0:03:58.640 the work when they should. You hand it to a 0:03:59.000 --> 0:04:00.600 plate and they just don't. 0:04:00.640 --> 0:04:02.800 I don't want to bash police. And there's some good 0:04:02.880 --> 0:04:05.600 senior police. There's a great junior police and all in 0:04:06.000 --> 0:04:09.560 the middle. But yeah, the culture can be problematic. 0:04:09.880 --> 0:04:15.360 Yeah there's pockets. There's pockets. Yeah, where there's still stuff. 0:04:15.400 --> 0:04:17.599 I've got a website and people send me stuff and 0:04:17.600 --> 0:04:20.039 they'll go, this station's really off. This is going on, 0:04:20.120 --> 0:04:23.200 this is going Yeah, like I think I threw myself 0:04:23.240 --> 0:04:26.080 on my sword. What what my family and myself suffered? 0:04:26.560 --> 0:04:30.800 And I'm going I have things change? Was it worth it? 0:04:31.520 --> 0:04:33.000 What I went through? Should I have just shut in 0:04:33.000 --> 0:04:38.560 my mouth like everyone else and just smiled? And you 0:04:38.560 --> 0:04:39.960 know I could still be there today? 0:04:40.040 --> 0:04:43.800 You know you must, you must. I couldn't do it, well, 0:04:43.839 --> 0:04:46.520 you must reflect about it. That must cross your mind sometimes. 0:04:46.520 --> 0:04:48.240 Well I could have done that. That would have been 0:04:48.320 --> 0:04:53.200 easier life, a lot less pressure and you get piped out, 0:04:53.279 --> 0:04:57.080 retiring after a stellar for the year career, and and 0:04:57.120 --> 0:05:00.920 everyone everyone would like you, but no, you couldn't do that, 0:05:00.960 --> 0:05:04.080 could you. But you can look at yourself in the 0:05:04.080 --> 0:05:08.039 mirror and go, Okay, well you've done something something that 0:05:08.120 --> 0:05:10.320 was the right thing to do. And I think I'd 0:05:10.360 --> 0:05:13.640 like to think there's more, Well, I say, there's in 0:05:13.680 --> 0:05:16.919 the police. The fact that I thought it was easier 0:05:16.960 --> 0:05:20.120 for people coming in. I'd navigated, I survived through it. 0:05:20.160 --> 0:05:22.640 I could have got through it. But I felt more 0:05:22.680 --> 0:05:26.520 comfortable for people joining the police after the Royal Commission 0:05:26.520 --> 0:05:29.640 had gone through, because I felt sorry for people this 0:05:30.080 --> 0:05:33.200 knowing what potentially they could confront and there's pockets, but 0:05:33.279 --> 0:05:36.279 if they ended up in the wrong area. And I 0:05:36.400 --> 0:05:39.560 felt more comfortable recommending people to join the police people 0:05:39.600 --> 0:05:42.120 that asked me after the Royal Commission, because I knew 0:05:42.160 --> 0:05:44.440 that they weren't going to have all these moral dilemmas 0:05:44.480 --> 0:05:49.120 and issues that you were confronted with, and that during 0:05:49.160 --> 0:05:50.880 the time that we joined the police. 0:05:51.200 --> 0:05:54.600 Yeah, the world changed. And with that would call it 0:05:55.480 --> 0:05:56.600 was groundbreaking. 0:05:56.920 --> 0:05:59.279 It came as a shock and there was an arrogance 0:05:59.320 --> 0:06:00.760 going around when that was in. 0:06:00.640 --> 0:06:05.600 Like the old school thinking they've got nothing. Everyone will 0:06:05.640 --> 0:06:08.040 be staunch and yeah, look how staunch they were. 0:06:08.040 --> 0:06:11.800 All stick together our role. Yeah, and I've seen whole 0:06:11.839 --> 0:06:14.080 offices and they've sat there and they'll get there and 0:06:14.080 --> 0:06:16.960 they'll rewrite their duty book to get the right phrase 0:06:17.000 --> 0:06:20.080 in on a certain day that this is what happened. 0:06:20.160 --> 0:06:23.360 We weren't actually over here, like you know. The old 0:06:23.440 --> 0:06:26.159 duty book. The old duty book helped me because I 0:06:26.200 --> 0:06:27.160 write stuff. 0:06:27.080 --> 0:06:30.719 That it's a funny system, the duty book and explaining 0:06:30.880 --> 0:06:34.320 people what the duty book is about. For any detective, 0:06:34.440 --> 0:06:36.440 you've got to keep a duty book, which is basically 0:06:36.480 --> 0:06:38.800 a diary of what time you start work, who you 0:06:38.839 --> 0:06:41.760 spoke to, and it helps you at more times and 0:06:41.880 --> 0:06:44.400 harms you in if you're doing the right thing. When 0:06:44.480 --> 0:06:47.200 you gave the court I spoke to this person blah 0:06:47.240 --> 0:06:50.760 blah blah, But I think it was your book where 0:06:50.760 --> 0:06:52.360 it might have been. One of the interviews i've heard 0:06:52.440 --> 0:06:55.000 you say is that you're documenting all the shit that 0:06:55.040 --> 0:06:57.840 you were seeing in the duty book, and the senior 0:06:57.880 --> 0:07:00.400 officer has to check the duty books, which is basically 0:07:00.440 --> 0:07:02.240 a tick and flick because you just have not got 0:07:02.279 --> 0:07:04.440 time to read everything that someone says. 0:07:04.400 --> 0:07:05.840 I was going doing this. 0:07:06.040 --> 0:07:09.120 I went on that, And so you've got your supervisor 0:07:09.279 --> 0:07:10.600 ticking it and signing off. 0:07:10.480 --> 0:07:12.560 On it and signing off date and timing it. And 0:07:13.440 --> 0:07:15.960 I'd feel sick every time he did it. And if 0:07:16.000 --> 0:07:19.200 he just read what I'd written, or he would be go, 0:07:19.520 --> 0:07:24.920 what Sishu's saying, I'm a corrupt bastard. Yeah, so that 0:07:25.120 --> 0:07:27.160 was a bit deadly, like that could have gotten a 0:07:27.160 --> 0:07:27.760 good bashion. 0:07:28.000 --> 0:07:31.360 Okay, let's get back to we got you out of 0:07:31.360 --> 0:07:34.680 the got your cars. You didn't got your cars, got 0:07:34.720 --> 0:07:40.440 anyone despite the well meaning police minister. Didn't get anyone. Okay, well, 0:07:41.080 --> 0:07:42.960 let's be fair. One person, but he just kicked the 0:07:42.960 --> 0:07:43.520 window out. 0:07:43.600 --> 0:07:46.120 He kicked the door like tiny little rusty bolts that 0:07:46.160 --> 0:07:46.720 had fall out. 0:07:47.120 --> 0:07:48.920 Okay, well, we've got to try things. 0:07:48.960 --> 0:07:53.640 You don't know if they're going to work until you try. 0:07:54.400 --> 0:07:57.000 You've come to terms with your got the drinking problem 0:07:57.120 --> 0:08:01.520 at this stage understandable. I picked up in the in 0:08:01.560 --> 0:08:05.280 the book that you were going to what's the not 0:08:05.560 --> 0:08:06.880 Alcoholics Anonymous? 0:08:06.920 --> 0:08:07.560 You were going to. 0:08:08.120 --> 0:08:11.920 On for the Iron and John for your parents, right, 0:08:12.040 --> 0:08:15.400 and then you've been going there thinking you're pretty good. 0:08:15.440 --> 0:08:17.880 I'm going to help help my parents and understand what's 0:08:17.920 --> 0:08:20.960 going on. And someone pulled you aside and say, hey, stupid, 0:08:20.960 --> 0:08:23.000 you're in the wrong meeting. You should be next door. 0:08:23.360 --> 0:08:26.320 You're an alcoholic too. Is that basically? Is that how 0:08:26.360 --> 0:08:29.200 it played out? It was, and I shouldn't be laughing. 0:08:30.680 --> 0:08:33.120 It was a very sad day for me. I What 0:08:33.280 --> 0:08:36.199 happened was I went to this counselor and she said, look, 0:08:36.240 --> 0:08:38.520 you need to go to alan On. Your parents aren't normal. 0:08:38.559 --> 0:08:41.000 And I'm going, oh, you know. And they used to 0:08:41.000 --> 0:08:43.640 tell me, you know, you can't get married, You've got 0:08:43.640 --> 0:08:46.760 to stay here forever and look after it. They'd be 0:08:46.800 --> 0:08:49.679 drinking method they'd point to other old families in the district. 0:08:49.679 --> 0:08:52.880 And this kid stayed and looked, you know, and she goes, 0:08:52.920 --> 0:08:54.559 if you ever have a baby, I'll get it by 0:08:54.559 --> 0:08:56.800 its feet and smash its head against a brick wall. 0:08:56.840 --> 0:09:00.480 And charming. She was charming, And I wasn't call a mum. 0:09:00.720 --> 0:09:03.040 And people would go, who's Aaron and John and to 0:09:03.040 --> 0:09:05.160 go there my parents, And back in those days they were. 0:09:05.000 --> 0:09:08.360 Going what basically drinking buddies, Yeah, yeah, oh. 0:09:08.320 --> 0:09:09.719 Yeah, and they go and they were saying to me, 0:09:10.559 --> 0:09:12.600 you've got to sit on the veranda and drink with us, 0:09:12.640 --> 0:09:13.560 like this is it? 0:09:13.760 --> 0:09:14.960 How do you break it? Family? 0:09:15.679 --> 0:09:20.000 Yeah, we're all dying here together. And as I stay 0:09:20.000 --> 0:09:21.600 going to alan On, I went, well, I went to 0:09:21.640 --> 0:09:23.520 one meeting and I drove for an hour and a half. 0:09:23.520 --> 0:09:25.320 I went to Mossman and there was all these old 0:09:25.360 --> 0:09:28.520 girls and twin sets and pearls, and I'm going, ah, 0:09:28.600 --> 0:09:30.840 this is recovery, like stab me now, like you know, 0:09:30.880 --> 0:09:33.880 I'm sitting there. My life's not bad enough. Roger wants 0:09:33.920 --> 0:09:36.800 to kill me, you know now I'm here. And anyway, 0:09:36.800 --> 0:09:39.320 they said to me, look, next week, come back and 0:09:39.679 --> 0:09:42.320 bring some milk and put the chairs out. Because the 0:09:42.400 --> 0:09:45.040 AA people used to like he used to always been 0:09:46.040 --> 0:09:48.120 the original meetings used to be in pubs. I guess 0:09:48.160 --> 0:09:50.000 that never worked well and so they moved it to 0:09:50.520 --> 0:09:53.800 school halls and church halls. And so they had been there, 0:09:53.840 --> 0:09:58.120 and then the poor suffering wives would be here. And 0:09:58.240 --> 0:09:59.840 rarely would you get a blake whose wife as our. 0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:02.120 In those days, it was all men, so it was 0:10:02.160 --> 0:10:04.200 like the cops. It was a boys club. They'd all 0:10:04.240 --> 0:10:06.880 be smoking, and you know, you couldn't see the person 0:10:06.960 --> 0:10:08.679 up the front share and their sad story because of 0:10:08.760 --> 0:10:11.680 cigarette smoke, you know. And it was just so I'm 0:10:11.720 --> 0:10:13.240 there and I'm bringing the milk, and I'm going these 0:10:13.240 --> 0:10:14.920 poor buses and milk every week, you know. And I 0:10:14.920 --> 0:10:17.120 didn't know they'd made me secretary of the group. So 0:10:18.280 --> 0:10:23.240 and anyway, I'm going, well, if you had my sad childhood, 0:10:23.280 --> 0:10:25.480 you drink too, you know, And these bases. I got 0:10:25.480 --> 0:10:28.800 to stay pissed because my life's so horrible. And this 0:10:28.840 --> 0:10:31.959 old girl gets me. She's about eighty, and she's frog 0:10:32.040 --> 0:10:34.000 marched me, grabbed me by the shoulders, frog match me 0:10:34.040 --> 0:10:35.360 in the other and she goes, you're in the wrong room. 0:10:35.640 --> 0:10:37.480 You're in the wrong room. You're an alcohol Yeah, I 0:10:37.520 --> 0:10:39.559 can't listen to you. I can't put up with you anymore. 0:10:39.800 --> 0:10:43.280 Get in here. You've got to get sober. And OK. 0:10:45.400 --> 0:10:49.240 So Iron and John were very upset about me joining AA, 0:10:49.440 --> 0:10:50.839 and I didn't want to join AA. And I was 0:10:50.880 --> 0:10:53.880 sitting the meetings, you know, and you know, and I'd 0:10:54.040 --> 0:10:55.679 drank in the cross and I'd got to meetings and 0:10:55.720 --> 0:10:58.440 the cross and be people. I'd locked up and I'm 0:10:58.480 --> 0:11:02.360 trying trying to get so it was just awful. And 0:11:02.800 --> 0:11:05.120 They've gone, look, if you keep going those meetings, and 0:11:05.160 --> 0:11:07.360 talking about it. We're going to kill ourselves. Yeah, so 0:11:07.559 --> 0:11:09.120 you know, and I'm going and I've had enough, al 0:11:09.160 --> 0:11:10.880 and I'm going, if you need to do that, you 0:11:10.960 --> 0:11:14.320 go and do that, you know. And John's chased me 0:11:14.360 --> 0:11:15.920 out to the hedge but the car and He's going, 0:11:15.920 --> 0:11:17.640 I don't want to kill myself. And I'm going, well, 0:11:17.840 --> 0:11:19.439 you know, you know, she's going to make me do it, 0:11:19.480 --> 0:11:20.840 and I'm going, have you got to do it? 0:11:20.880 --> 0:11:21.160 You know. 0:11:21.600 --> 0:11:23.720 And so they did it for my twenty sixth birthday. 0:11:24.000 --> 0:11:25.880 It was like a stuff you. 0:11:25.760 --> 0:11:28.440 Yeah, they did what for your twenty six birthday? 0:11:28.800 --> 0:11:33.400 Well, basically kill themselves. Like it was like a you know, 0:11:33.559 --> 0:11:35.880 like I had to make a choice between getting sober 0:11:35.920 --> 0:11:37.120 and having AA and having. 0:11:36.960 --> 0:11:40.640 A lie, right, Okay, yeah, I've I've rather Yeah, but 0:11:40.720 --> 0:11:43.199 I didn't realize that was around your twenty sixth birthday. 0:11:43.280 --> 0:11:43.840 Yeah, yeah, that. 0:11:45.559 --> 0:11:48.000 Or Or and I wanted to stay in the cops. 0:11:48.040 --> 0:11:49.520 I wanted to get married, I want to have kids, 0:11:49.520 --> 0:11:52.080 I want to have a life. My life was ship Yeah, 0:11:52.200 --> 0:11:55.360 e Glanory, you know, a third generation alcoholic in a 0:11:55.360 --> 0:11:56.360 small country. 0:11:56.000 --> 0:11:58.439 Teamor is out in the back of like I lived 0:11:58.480 --> 0:11:59.160 at Dura for a. 0:11:59.120 --> 0:12:03.360 While half of Glinory had water when I was grown, 0:12:03.800 --> 0:12:05.959 you know, most of them were on tank water. It 0:12:06.080 --> 0:12:06.839 was one shop. 0:12:06.920 --> 0:12:09.920 It was a small little town, long way out. But 0:12:10.000 --> 0:12:11.640 what it might be very nice now, I don't know. 0:12:12.320 --> 0:12:16.160 Still got friends out there, people of Glenaoric, Gleinoria. 0:12:16.240 --> 0:12:19.280 Yeah, that's great. It's very flash now, you know. But 0:12:19.280 --> 0:12:22.679 but back then it was the backwards, you know. And 0:12:23.080 --> 0:12:24.839 I was going to die there, you know. 0:12:25.080 --> 0:12:30.040 And so Irene and John. They died close together, didn't they. 0:12:30.520 --> 0:12:33.160 It was a couple of days apart. Like what I did. 0:12:33.040 --> 0:12:34.880 I got this free trip to Fiji. I'm about to 0:12:34.880 --> 0:12:37.240 go to Fiji. And she shows me and she says, now, 0:12:37.240 --> 0:12:40.160 if you don't come home right now, we're going to 0:12:40.160 --> 0:12:42.120 be dead. You've got to take us to the Hornsby Hospital. 0:12:42.160 --> 0:12:43.520 And then what they've done is stop it and stop 0:12:43.559 --> 0:12:46.400 taking their blood pressure pillows, drinking metho. That it was 0:12:46.480 --> 0:12:49.880 a suicide pack. So I drave them through the Gulf 0:12:49.920 --> 0:12:51.800 and Gorge, go on the Hornsby Hospital, sat there for 0:12:51.800 --> 0:12:54.679 about twelve hours. And over the years I'd put him 0:12:54.679 --> 0:12:56.360 in there lots of times. And this was back when 0:12:56.360 --> 0:12:58.760 there was a medical system and I could put him 0:12:58.800 --> 0:13:01.560 in there to dry out a bit and have a break. 0:13:01.559 --> 0:13:02.959 Now you can't get a bed. You're gonna have a 0:13:03.000 --> 0:13:04.880 stroke and they'll leave you sitting in a chair all night. 0:13:04.960 --> 0:13:07.160 You know, you can't even get a bed. And this 0:13:07.240 --> 0:13:08.920 doctor kept saying, I'm not taking them, I'm going You 0:13:09.000 --> 0:13:12.280 got to take them. And they both died, Like they 0:13:12.320 --> 0:13:15.520 both went in there and died within a day, you know. 0:13:16.160 --> 0:13:19.040 But they were teaching me a lesson, you know. But 0:13:19.120 --> 0:13:22.640 I made a choice. And you know, if i'd pick 0:13:22.720 --> 0:13:26.559 up a drink on the twenty seventh of March, I 0:13:26.640 --> 0:13:29.280 have thirty three years up of continual sobriety. It took 0:13:29.320 --> 0:13:30.880 me four and a half years to get each Like 0:13:30.920 --> 0:13:32.599 it took me at a few bus and I'd have 0:13:32.640 --> 0:13:34.920 a one night bust and same thing it'd always happened. 0:13:34.920 --> 0:13:37.320 I'd get very drunk and something bad had happened and 0:13:37.360 --> 0:13:38.959 I'd go, this is so bad, I'm going to And 0:13:39.040 --> 0:13:39.560 you had a lot. 0:13:39.480 --> 0:13:44.000 Of shit happening. So there would have been that temptation, 0:13:44.160 --> 0:13:48.280 But you kept up your commitment with AA and. 0:13:47.360 --> 0:13:48.920 I still went to a meeting last night. 0:13:50.080 --> 0:13:53.360 You just stay stay focused on that. 0:13:54.040 --> 0:13:56.439 That was my commitment to me, and I don't think 0:13:56.480 --> 0:13:59.600 I would have survived all the harassment and bullying and 0:13:59.760 --> 0:14:00.320 what went on. 0:14:00.400 --> 0:14:02.040 Well, tell us what happened when you went to the 0:14:02.040 --> 0:14:05.839 fraud squad, because give a sense of yeah, because I 0:14:05.880 --> 0:14:08.920 know a detective's office and the squad office, how uncomfortable 0:14:08.960 --> 0:14:11.080 they can make it for people if they choose to 0:14:11.400 --> 0:14:14.040 what the day one you turn up, this is a 0:14:14.120 --> 0:14:16.680 new year. You've given up drinking. You want to be 0:14:17.880 --> 0:14:21.800 a good working detective. You've rolled yourself out there. 0:14:21.920 --> 0:14:24.760 You've got and mixed going, don't go, don't go out there, 0:14:25.120 --> 0:14:25.920 it's dangerous. 0:14:26.280 --> 0:14:28.520 And well, what happened when you hit the fraud squad? 0:14:28.960 --> 0:14:31.160 It was like the gaming's God, there was like about 0:14:31.400 --> 0:14:33.520 sixty blokes or forty blokes, I don't know. It was 0:14:33.560 --> 0:14:37.400 a big office with lots of men and there was 0:14:37.760 --> 0:14:42.000 one woman. Yep, so there was two single blokes. Ended 0:14:42.080 --> 0:14:43.880 up with a relationship. I got pregnant, and this is 0:14:43.880 --> 0:14:46.200 where the pregnancy discrimination when they're going, well you've got 0:14:46.240 --> 0:14:48.520 to resign. Now the dinosaurs are going, you've got to resign. 0:14:48.600 --> 0:14:50.960 So that was uncomfortable. I had Kim will Cook come 0:14:51.040 --> 0:14:53.400 up to me and go, you know all about police corruption. 0:14:53.520 --> 0:14:56.200 John Hatton's running around looking to start a would role. 0:14:56.320 --> 0:14:58.800 John Hatton had been trying for twenty years and it 0:14:58.840 --> 0:15:00.360 was just a balance apart parliament. 0:15:01.320 --> 0:15:05.600 Kim Cook introduced that John Hadden, Yeah. 0:15:04.440 --> 0:15:06.800 He didn't, he didn't get involved. He'd had the Malu 0:15:06.880 --> 0:15:08.720 matter on that, but he sort of put me under 0:15:08.720 --> 0:15:11.560 the bus and DEMI knows where all the skeletons are 0:15:12.360 --> 0:15:16.960 and and I just the autism came out. Yeah, there's 0:15:17.040 --> 0:15:18.920 a few bustards like a dabe. 0:15:20.880 --> 0:15:24.960 You've got Hatten looking for people that can give him 0:15:24.960 --> 0:15:29.000 after David's or statements about anyone corruption. You gave him 0:15:29.040 --> 0:15:31.720 multiple statements and you were the only one, but you 0:15:31.760 --> 0:15:35.040 were actually traveling around the state looking for other other 0:15:35.120 --> 0:15:36.120 cops and you'd go. 0:15:36.560 --> 0:15:39.800 Not one person would do it, not one. 0:15:40.000 --> 0:15:42.440 And that was for the fear that they. 0:15:42.360 --> 0:15:47.280 Had or just they had they had wives and mortgages, 0:15:47.480 --> 0:15:49.600 or they were scared they were going to die. They'd 0:15:49.640 --> 0:15:51.960 seen what had happened to Drury when he'd spoken up 0:15:52.160 --> 0:15:55.600 like and said no to Roger, and people were scared 0:15:55.640 --> 0:15:58.480 of dyeing. And Hatten's going I'm going to go to 0:15:58.560 --> 0:16:01.480 parliament with just your and people were going, oh, she's 0:16:02.080 --> 0:16:05.920 a drunken slut basically, you know, they're arguing, and yet 0:16:05.960 --> 0:16:07.680 they had all that film, They had all the film 0:16:07.720 --> 0:16:11.320 to prove that everything I said was true. That Hatton 0:16:11.360 --> 0:16:14.120 had to go with just my stattics. But I was 0:16:14.120 --> 0:16:16.200 the only one that said, yeah, there's corruption, there's current 0:16:16.200 --> 0:16:19.120 corruption in the New South Ast police force. And he 0:16:19.240 --> 0:16:21.880 went there with that. And even when I was getting interviewed, 0:16:22.000 --> 0:16:25.760 they're going, she's a drunken slut, and her cart was going, 0:16:26.160 --> 0:16:31.800 well is she sober? Yeah? Is it true what she's saying? Yeah? 0:16:31.840 --> 0:16:34.240 And he's going, well, why are we arguing all this? 0:16:34.560 --> 0:16:37.800 The way that they can attack And when I say they, 0:16:37.840 --> 0:16:41.040 I'm talking generally in the police. You would have been 0:16:41.080 --> 0:16:43.920 an easy one to tarnish the reputation and that could 0:16:43.960 --> 0:16:46.640 be enough to break a lot of people. You're a 0:16:46.680 --> 0:16:49.680 drunken slut, you've done this, You've slept with all these 0:16:49.680 --> 0:16:51.360 people that they can just pluck out of the air, 0:16:51.880 --> 0:16:53.880 and how do you defend yourself? 0:16:53.880 --> 0:16:56.280 But they don't go out the bloke. They would go 0:16:56.320 --> 0:16:57.320 at the blake differently. 0:16:57.520 --> 0:17:01.000 If that's it's that they tried the hard They used 0:17:01.040 --> 0:17:03.440 to sit off my house and the bloody i'd been 0:17:03.440 --> 0:17:05.200 in an AA meeting, they'd be standing up the back 0:17:05.200 --> 0:17:06.919 of the room, like the cops were trying to break me. 0:17:07.000 --> 0:17:10.199 Before the Royal Commission, I was in the greatest physical 0:17:10.280 --> 0:17:13.439 danger before Hatton went to part like when he went 0:17:13.480 --> 0:17:16.359 to Parliament House and got the wood Royal Commission. That's 0:17:16.400 --> 0:17:19.600 when I felt say, I was in fear in my 0:17:19.680 --> 0:17:22.720 life up until that time and after. 0:17:23.280 --> 0:17:27.200 Didn't you a boss, and I'm not sure you let 0:17:27.240 --> 0:17:29.400 me know if you can mention the person, but turn 0:17:29.480 --> 0:17:32.000 up at your bus stop one time or when something 0:17:32.560 --> 0:17:33.080 There was that. 0:17:33.080 --> 0:17:38.359 Much harassment, it was bloody ridiculous, you know, and being 0:17:38.400 --> 0:17:41.639 stood over and yelled at and slapped and you know, 0:17:41.960 --> 0:17:44.760 it was just no one should have to put up 0:17:44.760 --> 0:17:47.480 with what I copped for years because I was honest. 0:17:47.520 --> 0:17:50.200 You were physically. 0:17:48.720 --> 0:17:53.400 Physical, physically assaulted by cops. Nuts absolutely nuts how I 0:17:53.480 --> 0:17:56.640 was treated and just ostracized, you. 0:17:56.600 --> 0:18:00.439 Know, And tell us about when you get lost sized 0:18:00.680 --> 0:18:02.520 in that environment because it can be. 0:18:02.840 --> 0:18:06.600 Yeah, and it hurts more than anything because it's your family, 0:18:06.640 --> 0:18:08.760 Like the police when you go to work, you're trusting 0:18:08.760 --> 0:18:11.199 on your partner to protect you in your life with 0:18:11.240 --> 0:18:15.679 a gun, like you know, it's a club, it's a family. 0:18:15.880 --> 0:18:19.639 And I was pushed out like my biological family rejected me, 0:18:20.840 --> 0:18:23.080 especially because I stopped drinking and I joined the cops. 0:18:23.720 --> 0:18:29.440 But then my police family rejected me. So in one lifetime, 0:18:29.520 --> 0:18:31.200 that's a lot for a person that have to enjoy. 0:18:31.280 --> 0:18:34.400 And now I have a severely disabled son who I'm 0:18:34.440 --> 0:18:39.200 caring for on my own, and that's a hard journey, you. 0:18:39.160 --> 0:18:43.439 Know, extremely hard hard journey. 0:18:43.800 --> 0:18:46.000 Yeah, and full credit to you. You can see there 0:18:46.400 --> 0:18:48.000 have a laugh and the smile on your face with 0:18:48.240 --> 0:18:50.159 all that you've been through. But I know when you 0:18:50.200 --> 0:18:53.800 talk about that police family, I went from I thought 0:18:53.840 --> 0:18:58.080 that people might care, but you got charge. She's talking 0:18:58.080 --> 0:19:01.119 about corruption. I stand by what I did. I'm not 0:19:01.119 --> 0:19:03.320 ashamed of what I did. I was actually doing police work, 0:19:03.320 --> 0:19:08.560 which is a novel idea. So I but the police 0:19:08.680 --> 0:19:12.119