1 00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:08,160 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Fear and Greed Business Interview. I'm Sean Ailmart. 2 00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:11,840 Speaker 1: This year Australia buy now, pay later platform after Pay 3 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:15,680 Speaker 1: turned ten in just one decade. The fintech unicorn has 4 00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:17,799 Speaker 1: played a key role in the rapid growth of the 5 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:19,960 Speaker 1: buy and our pay later sector. It was a share 6 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:23,119 Speaker 1: market darling with share price booming before Block acquired the 7 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:26,439 Speaker 1: business for an incredible thirty nine billion dollars. But where's 8 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:29,360 Speaker 1: the sector heading now? Since the sale was completed in 9 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:32,920 Speaker 1: twenty twenty two, after Pay says consumers have spent over 10 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:35,479 Speaker 1: seventy two billion US that's about one hundred and ten 11 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:39,080 Speaker 1: Ozzie through the platform. I'm joined today by country manager 12 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:43,200 Speaker 1: and Executive vice president at after Pay, Katrina Constace. It's 13 00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:46,559 Speaker 1: also an opportunity to mark International Women's Day by speaking 14 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 1: with a leader in finance and technology to traditionally male 15 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:52,640 Speaker 1: dominated environments. Katrina. Welcome to Fear and Greed. 16 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me, Sean. Delighted to 17 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:55,440 Speaker 2: be here. 18 00:00:55,640 --> 00:00:58,880 Speaker 1: I've got to ask up front. Since the takeover from Block, 19 00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 1: how has after pay changed? Well? 20 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:06,759 Speaker 2: Look, we're still an Aussie startup, born and bred right 21 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:10,920 Speaker 2: here in Sydney. We continue to make great strides in 22 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:13,080 Speaker 2: the growth of our business, but we are part of 23 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:16,400 Speaker 2: a broader organization now right, I report into Nick more 24 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 2: than one of the co founders. He's directly into Jack Dorsey, 25 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 2: and I think, you know, having an illustrious leader like 26 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:24,959 Speaker 2: Jack has been incredibly inspiring for a lot of our people, 27 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:29,040 Speaker 2: our staff, and having the backing of a global organization 28 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:32,160 Speaker 2: like Block, I think has been really fortuitous for our sector. 29 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:34,760 Speaker 2: As you saw the advent after our sale and you 30 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:37,080 Speaker 2: saw you know a number of other players that dissipated 31 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:39,200 Speaker 2: out of the industry, and we've remained strong and I 32 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 2: think being able to broaden the ecosystem of what we've 33 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:44,960 Speaker 2: got here. We've got the after pay business, You've got 34 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:48,080 Speaker 2: square number of other brands. It's really places in a 35 00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 2: strong position as ever. 36 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:52,000 Speaker 1: Funny buying now pay later sect because it kind of 37 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:54,720 Speaker 1: came out of nowhere pretty much with after Pay. To 38 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:56,800 Speaker 1: be honest, it was probably there before after Pay, but 39 00:01:56,880 --> 00:01:59,120 Speaker 1: certainly the first time that I became aware of it 40 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 1: was after Pay, and I didn't understand that it had 41 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 1: any longevity, But to be honest, it was an administrator 42 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 1: of another buy and our pay later group said no, 43 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:11,120 Speaker 1: now this sector has longevity because people have grown up 44 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:14,359 Speaker 1: on the full payment ideas. So it's not a fly 45 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 1: by night. I think it'll stay. How has buy now 46 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:21,800 Speaker 1: pay later changed over that period? But don't tell me 47 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:23,920 Speaker 1: about new credit regulations because we'll get to them in 48 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 1: a moment. 49 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:27,959 Speaker 2: Oh well, look, after Bay was founded ten years ago. 50 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:30,959 Speaker 2: We celebrated our tenth birthday in October of last year 51 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:34,639 Speaker 2: and it was a story that, like I said earlier, 52 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:38,519 Speaker 2: we started hearing Sydney two neighbors, Anthony Eisen and Nick Molner, 53 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:41,200 Speaker 2: came up with the idea of you know, how do 54 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:45,079 Speaker 2: you transform a way of paying for our younger generation. 55 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 2: You've got a segment gen Z millennials who are credited verse. 56 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:52,840 Speaker 2: They don't want credit cards, they're not interested in them, 57 00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:56,200 Speaker 2: and want alternative ways of paying in a more flexible way. 58 00:02:56,240 --> 00:02:59,080 Speaker 2: And so the idea of after pay came about and 59 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:02,360 Speaker 2: over ten years, you know, it's a massed over twenty 60 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:05,840 Speaker 2: four million customers globally. I think it's appealed to a 61 00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:09,680 Speaker 2: demographic of customer who wants more flexibility and doesn't want 62 00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:13,360 Speaker 2: you know, they grew up in post GFC era not 63 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:15,880 Speaker 2: wanting to go down dealing with traditional banks and so 64 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 2: this was an alternate, flexible way of adopting a form 65 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 2: of payment that really works to that generational needs. 66 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:23,400 Speaker 1: And why is Australia the heart of it though? 67 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:27,639 Speaker 2: Well was founded here, right, but. 68 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:29,760 Speaker 1: Find our pay Later? What's bind our pay later founded 69 00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:30,640 Speaker 1: in Australia. 70 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:33,880 Speaker 2: Well, there's always contention about that, but look you've got 71 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:36,960 Speaker 2: you know, some two significant players that came with the 72 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:39,160 Speaker 2: idea of both after pay and then you know fast 73 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:42,240 Speaker 2: Follower with ZIP. Both brands have gone global and I 74 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:45,760 Speaker 2: think they've been able to resonate with consumers globally. You 75 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 2: do have a number of other global players in the 76 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 2: markets now, but certainly here in Australia it's something that 77 00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:55,520 Speaker 2: certainly resonates with Australians and with Aussies, and after Pet 78 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:57,480 Speaker 2: continues to be that number one brand when it comes 79 00:03:57,520 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 2: to this sector. 80 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:00,839 Speaker 1: What about the new regulations which are about to be 81 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:04,640 Speaker 1: applied to the buy and ow pay later sector? Essentially 82 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:08,440 Speaker 1: for small businesses who have customers who use buy now, 83 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:10,520 Speaker 1: pay later facilities, so they used to have to pay, 84 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 1: they're actually going to have to do greater credit checks 85 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:15,840 Speaker 1: in essence, how will that work? 86 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:18,240 Speaker 2: Well, actually, it's after Pay that's going to need to 87 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:21,680 Speaker 2: do the credit check, so we take on all of 88 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 2: the grunt work effectively. What will happen come June of 89 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:28,240 Speaker 2: this year is that previously we would only do an 90 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:31,479 Speaker 2: ID verification check, we will now be proceeding with doing 91 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:34,279 Speaker 2: a formal credit check on all new customers that come through. 92 00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:37,600 Speaker 2: And so hopefully that translates to more merchants feeling a 93 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:40,840 Speaker 2: lot more comfortable with accepting our pay later as a 94 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:43,640 Speaker 2: form of payment, and more consumers embracing it as a 95 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:44,240 Speaker 2: way forward. 96 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:47,159 Speaker 1: So if I'm buying something for two thousand dollars and 97 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 1: I'm going to do four lots of five hundred dollars payments, 98 00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:53,919 Speaker 1: does pay do a credit check on me once? Or 99 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:56,160 Speaker 1: is it every time I spend the two thousand dollars? 100 00:04:56,560 --> 00:04:59,800 Speaker 2: It's once. When you apply for US and for the facility, 101 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:01,440 Speaker 2: kind of similar to what you would do with your 102 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:04,560 Speaker 2: credit card, right, you would put an application forward, you 103 00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 2: would be granted some kind of a limit, a credit 104 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:08,839 Speaker 2: limit that you would work with. That would be the 105 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:11,719 Speaker 2: same with after pay. However, the limit that you get 106 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:14,560 Speaker 2: applied traditionally, or prior to credit checks, it would be 107 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 2: a limit of six hundred dollars. In the future, we 108 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:21,040 Speaker 2: might value you as actually a more valuable customer because 109 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:24,320 Speaker 2: you've got a healthier credit check than our risk models determined, 110 00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:25,680 Speaker 2: and so we might lend you a little bit more 111 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:29,120 Speaker 2: than that. We've implemented regulations over in New Zealand and 112 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:31,840 Speaker 2: have been able to see that not only do we 113 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 2: expand more consumers onto our network, but we do actually 114 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:37,680 Speaker 2: have start with higher limits because we're able to conduct 115 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:39,400 Speaker 2: those credit checks. So it's actually quite a good thing 116 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:40,040 Speaker 2: for our business. 117 00:05:40,279 --> 00:05:42,440 Speaker 1: We'll take a quick break, Katrina and be back in 118 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:52,560 Speaker 1: a moment. I'm speaking to Katrina Constas from after Pay. 119 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 1: International Women's Day is on Saturday the eighth. What does 120 00:05:57,400 --> 00:06:00,480 Speaker 1: it mean for you, particularly since you work in a 121 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:01,960 Speaker 1: very male dominated sector. 122 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:05,880 Speaker 2: I do, and I feel like every year we come 123 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:09,240 Speaker 2: to International Women's Day and we feel like it's a 124 00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:11,679 Speaker 2: moment where we need to cast this spotlight on women 125 00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:15,159 Speaker 2: and the importance that they play in workplaces. And you know, 126 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:16,919 Speaker 2: for me, this is something that we need to be 127 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:19,440 Speaker 2: doing year round and not just in a workplace environment. 128 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:21,800 Speaker 2: You know, it is certainly a moment to be able 129 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:26,120 Speaker 2: to recognize the importance of empowering women regardless of the 130 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:27,920 Speaker 2: role that they play all the sector that they're in, 131 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:31,280 Speaker 2: that we celebrate the greatness that comes with what women achieve, 132 00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:34,440 Speaker 2: and to remind ourselves that, you know, it doesn't matter 133 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:38,200 Speaker 2: what your background is, what industry you're in, but that 134 00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:40,919 Speaker 2: from a women's standpoint, we've got to support and be 135 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:44,760 Speaker 2: open to supporting women in all generations, in all sectors. 136 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 2: For us here after paying at block, this time of 137 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:51,080 Speaker 2: year is a great opportunity to cast that spotlight on 138 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:54,280 Speaker 2: a variety of different talents, whether it is you're an engineer. 139 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 2: You know, forty percent of our engineering workforce here a female. 140 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:02,039 Speaker 2: We've got really strong leadership right across our boards, both 141 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:05,200 Speaker 2: after pay and more broadly at square. But it is 142 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:08,919 Speaker 2: a time to be able to really remember and remind 143 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:11,920 Speaker 2: those around us of the important roles that women play, 144 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:14,520 Speaker 2: not only just in the workplace, but certainly broader than that. 145 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:18,160 Speaker 1: Some of the political debate around this is difficult at 146 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:20,880 Speaker 1: the moment, and it is what it is. Do you 147 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:24,800 Speaker 1: think though, that the benefits of having a diverse workforce 148 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 1: gender being part of that, but it's actually broader than 149 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:31,680 Speaker 1: that is at least inculcated enough in businesses now that 150 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:32,840 Speaker 1: it'll just keep going. 151 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:35,680 Speaker 2: I think it depends on the sector, and I think 152 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:38,240 Speaker 2: it depends on the environment and the leadership that exists 153 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:41,720 Speaker 2: within particular businesses. I've been fortunate enough is certainly in 154 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:45,040 Speaker 2: my career where I've had very strong women in leadership 155 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 2: positions that have inspired others to continue to pursue career 156 00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 2: growth within those organizations. It certainly has been something here 157 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 2: at after pay No when I first joined five years ago, 158 00:07:56,800 --> 00:07:58,880 Speaker 2: when you looked at the global leadership team, more than 159 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:01,840 Speaker 2: half of it were female. You know, our chair was female. 160 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:05,680 Speaker 2: So I've certainly personally been surrounded by strong women that 161 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 2: have been an inspiration to me, and hopefully I've been 162 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:10,360 Speaker 2: able to play a similar role to others that I 163 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:12,640 Speaker 2: lead and that I engage with. But I do think 164 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:15,320 Speaker 2: that it's very important that we do have women in 165 00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 2: leadership positions, and yes, it's certainly very topical at the minute. 166 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:22,679 Speaker 2: I think there's a role that everyone has to play 167 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:25,080 Speaker 2: to ensure that we take a very diverse lens to 168 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:27,920 Speaker 2: everything that we approach in these times. 169 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 1: Someone like me and I used to run big newsrooms 170 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:32,120 Speaker 1: and I don't doubt that I employed people in my 171 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 1: mirror right, And I look back on it now, and 172 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 1: I think, ouch, it actually embarrasses me that I did it. 173 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:40,839 Speaker 1: How do you stop that, you know? I mean, I 174 00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:43,640 Speaker 1: don't have newsrooms now, so that's not me. But absolutely 175 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:45,920 Speaker 1: that's what I did. Well. 176 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:49,120 Speaker 2: Look, I think it comes down to our education systems. 177 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 2: I think it comes down to the examples that we 178 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:53,480 Speaker 2: set for our kids and the conversations that we should 179 00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 2: be having about equality. You know. More broadly, I think 180 00:08:57,120 --> 00:08:59,599 Speaker 2: casting that very strong spotlight on the fact that it 181 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 2: doesn't make what your gender is or you know, what 182 00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:05,199 Speaker 2: you do. We should be looking at employing and engaging 183 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:09,160 Speaker 2: with diverse groups. So whether that is gender diversity, whether 184 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:11,560 Speaker 2: it is diverse talent. You know, when I look at 185 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 2: employing people within my organization, we don't take a quickie 186 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:17,880 Speaker 2: cutter approach. We look at people who are going to 187 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:21,240 Speaker 2: bring another aspect to our organization that is going to 188 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:24,520 Speaker 2: help challenge the status quo or help us accelerate our business. 189 00:09:24,559 --> 00:09:28,280 Speaker 2: And so I think ensuring that we are embracing diversity 190 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:31,000 Speaker 2: however we see it, I think is the right lens 191 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:32,200 Speaker 2: we should be using for the future. 192 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:34,559 Speaker 1: Katrina, thank you for talking to Fear and Greed. 193 00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:36,480 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me Sean. 194 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:40,559 Speaker 1: As Katrina Constans, country manager and executive vice president at Afterpay. 195 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:43,080 Speaker 1: This is the Fear and Greed Business Interview. Join us 196 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:45,240 Speaker 1: every morning for the full episode of Fear and Greed, 197 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 1: daily business news for people who make their own decisions. 198 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:49,640 Speaker 1: I'm seanielma Enjoy your day.