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Speaker 1: I tell you, welcome to another installment of your favorite show,

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Speaker 1: The U Project. Craig, Anthony, Harp, Tippany and Cook's meant

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Speaker 1: to be here, but selfishly is not shure. We editing

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Speaker 1: it later on behalf of David Knight if where the

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Speaker 1: fuck are you? Anyway? The two important people are here, Gillaspo,

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Speaker 1: Good afternoon, my friend. How are you good?

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Speaker 2: How are you?

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Speaker 1: Greg? Did you grow up with a nickname? I feel

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Speaker 1: like you were probably AUSTRAIGHTI one eighty.

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Speaker 2: I probably had lots of nicknames, but I don't recall

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Speaker 2: what they were, and they probably weren't pleasant. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Were you a I know this is not what we're

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Speaker 1: talking about, but we'll get there. Were you an academic kid,

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Speaker 1: a sporting kid? Were you intense? Were you a fucking

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Speaker 1: trouble maker? You can figure out what I was, it's

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Speaker 1: not hard, But what were you?

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Speaker 2: I was lucky enough to be fairly academically gifted to

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Speaker 2: the point where I didn't really have to do much,

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Speaker 2: and so I didn't really really yeah, so all the

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Speaker 2: way through, and it was a rude shock when I

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Speaker 2: got to university. Actually, and suddenly in university you're you're

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Speaker 2: there with a whole bunch of people who are similar

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Speaker 2: and suddenly you do have to do something or you're

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Speaker 2: just not going to pass. That was a bit of

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Speaker 2: a shock for me. And I know that sounds really

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Speaker 2: like egotistical or whatever, but it just it's the way

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Speaker 2: it was for me. And I was really really lucky

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Speaker 2: in the teachers I had because a lot of them

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Speaker 2: recognize that, and just to stop me being a pain

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Speaker 2: in class, which I would tend to be if I

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Speaker 2: got bored, they would find things to, you know, keep

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Speaker 2: me out of everyone's way.

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Speaker 1: I guess that's funny. This is I know, this wasn't

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Speaker 1: where we're to go, and we might end up where

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Speaker 1: we were going to go. But like, you're really involved

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Speaker 1: in education with free schools, dot organ all the other stuff.

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Speaker 1: You're great, other great stuff you do, and you've got

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Speaker 1: forty seven children of your own, And do you think

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Speaker 1: that being this is like almost a contrary question, but

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Speaker 1: do you think that sometimes being gifted is not the

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Speaker 1: advantage that it might seem like academically, intellectually, creatively, you know,

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Speaker 1: in a sporting sense, I feel like it's an advantage,

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Speaker 1: but for some people it ends up becoming a disadvantage.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a really great quote about talent which I've

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Speaker 2: completely forgotten, which basically something like what you just said there,

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Speaker 2: which is and I feel that applies in most domains.

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Speaker 2: You know, most people have something that they're naturally quite

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Speaker 2: good at, or better than the average brown bear. And

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Speaker 2: in that something, I guess you either learn to use

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Speaker 2: that as an advantage and really excel at it's because

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Speaker 2: natural talent only takes you so far, you know, if

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Speaker 2: you imagine it sort of like where your talent is

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Speaker 2: at level nine and everyone else starts at level two.

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Speaker 2: Eventually they get to level nine with enough training and persistence,

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Speaker 2: and we'll go past you to level ten, eleven, and

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Speaker 2: twelve because they've had to work really really hard to

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Speaker 2: get to level nine and they know how to improve

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Speaker 2: from level nine, whereas you have always been at level

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Speaker 2: nine and you know nothing about getting to level ten.

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Speaker 2: So I think, yeah, it can be a distinct disadvantage

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Speaker 2: if you want to excel in the thing that you're

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Speaker 2: naturally talented at.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I feel like like I was, I mean, I

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Speaker 1: wasn't dumb, but I certainly wasn't academically gifted, right, not

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Speaker 1: athleticly gifted, not physically gifted, and because I was so mediocre,

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Speaker 1: you know, fat kid morbidly ob saw that stuff because

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Speaker 1: I was so mediocre and I didn't want to be

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Speaker 1: like I took my time. But it was about fourteen

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Speaker 1: I had this epiphany, which probably had something to do

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Speaker 1: with testosterone and girls and social fucking isolation and a

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Speaker 1: whole bunch of things, and realizing that I was going

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Speaker 1: to fail school if I didn't actually do so. All

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Speaker 1: of these kind of things kind of intersected. But I

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Speaker 1: think for me, being mediocre was highly motivating because it

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Speaker 1: started with losing weight and I successfully changed my body

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Speaker 1: like dramatically in about four months. And while the physical

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Speaker 1: change was good, it kind of opened a door in

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Speaker 1: my brain that went, oh, what else could I do?

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Speaker 1: Like if I do work, make decisions, be committed, get

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Speaker 1: uncomfortable and keep getting uncomfortable, what else could I create?

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Speaker 1: So for me, it was like almost that default setting

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Speaker 1: of mediocrity was what gave me the drive to not

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Speaker 1: be mediocre. Does that make sense?

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Speaker 2: But it also taught you how to not be mediocre,

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Speaker 2: that you had to do things and get results, and

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Speaker 2: then when you want to move on from that level,

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Speaker 2: that you've achieved, then you know how to do it.

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Speaker 2: And I think that's kind of what happened to me

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Speaker 2: with university. Like I said, when I got to first

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Speaker 2: year UNI and then suddenly everyone else was as smart

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Speaker 2: as me. And you know, my undergraduate degree, my first

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Speaker 2: undergraduate degree, I think I came in with a solid

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Speaker 2: four average or something like that, you know, going with

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Speaker 2: the thing of four's open doors. I don't know if

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Speaker 2: it's the same everywhere in Australia to four as.

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Speaker 1: A path here, and.

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Speaker 2: That was a bit of shock to the system. But

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Speaker 2: by the time I went on to do higher degrees,

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Speaker 2: I'd kind of figured out what I should have known

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Speaker 2: all along and what probably other people who had to

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Speaker 2: work really hard to get to that level did know,

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Speaker 2: which is how you improve, how you learn more, how

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Speaker 2: you do things more efficiently, how you how you get better.

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Speaker 2: And so you know, by the time I did other degrees,

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Speaker 2: you know, I was able to get sevens and and

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Speaker 2: because I'd learned how to do that, whereas never before

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Speaker 2: in my life had I had to learn that. And

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Speaker 2: that's kind of what I mean is if if you

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Speaker 2: start from from what you're talking about, we start at

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Speaker 2: a place where you're saying, well, I don't think anything

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Speaker 2: about the way I look or my physique or whatever

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Speaker 2: is good enough, and I'm going to learn how to

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Speaker 2: improve it. And then you do. Then it becomes something

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Speaker 2: that you become really really good at improving, whereas someone

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Speaker 2: who's born looking like an Adonis and has to do

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Speaker 2: nothing is never going to learn.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I went to school with some kids. Some of

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Speaker 1: them done great, have done great, But yeah, a few

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Speaker 1: that I went to school with do I bump into

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Speaker 1: every now and then? Who are these like athletic freaks?

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Speaker 1: You would not recognize them as athletic freaks now, no disrespect,

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Speaker 1: you know, And you're like, oh, because I used to

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Speaker 1: look at these guys and go, fuck, I wish I

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Speaker 1: look like that, you know, or I wish I had

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Speaker 1: that sporting ability.

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Speaker 2: Or yeah, I mean you see it all the time.

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Speaker 2: You see kids who are eighteen, nineteen, twenty years old

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Speaker 2: are absolutely perfect physiques that they have done absolutely nothing

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Speaker 2: to earn. They chugged down Coca cola and Mars bars

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Speaker 2: every second minute. They you know, seem to be completely

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Speaker 2: impervious to putting on weight. They have a sculpted physique

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Speaker 2: and are actually doing nothing to achieve that, and so

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Speaker 2: when the biochemistry catches up with them and their body

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Speaker 2: metabolism stabilizers in their twenties, suddenly they have no recipes

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Speaker 2: for how to change the inevitable and fairly swift decline

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Speaker 2: that occurs. Then. So whereas someone like you, perhaps who

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Speaker 2: worked to get to that point, understands the rules and

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Speaker 2: understands how to change them.

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Speaker 1: Well, I think, but for some people, like we have

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Speaker 1: a lot of people who listen to this show who

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Speaker 1: I think, they get a little bit inspired and motivated,

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Speaker 1: and not because I'm a great communicator or brilliant, but

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Speaker 1: because they go, ah, harps is normal and he failed this,

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Speaker 1: and he is. You know, for all the things that

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Speaker 1: I've tried, most of them didn't work. Some did you know,

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Speaker 1: even with this show, I've said.

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Speaker 2: It's true, but that's true of everything, and anyone who

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Speaker 2: tells your story there is they were an overnight success. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: probably one lotto, because I don't know of anyone else

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Speaker 2: that's an overnight success that hasn't put in twenty work,

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Speaker 2: twenty years of failure to get there. It's just it's

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Speaker 2: the persistent that succeed.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well I did. Six hundred were fifth, ten hundred,

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Speaker 1: and I think today this episode is one five five eight.

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Speaker 1: And I did at least six hundred episodes that I

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Speaker 1: lost money on, even though the show was pretty good

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Speaker 1: and we were getting good feedback and it was growing.

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Speaker 1: But by the time I, you know, like I built

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Speaker 1: a studio at home, and I did all these things,

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Speaker 1: and I paid Melissa who works with me, and Tiff,

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Speaker 1: and you know, by the time we paid everything and everyone,

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Speaker 1: we were still losing money for like two years, which

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Speaker 1: is not the longest apprenticeship in the world. But we

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Speaker 1: did three shows before the U Project that didn't work.

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Speaker 1: So by the time this thing actually became sponsored and

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Speaker 1: consistently sponsored, in in the black and a consistently decent audience.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, it was four years. And people say to

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Speaker 1: me all the time, not all the time, but at

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Speaker 1: least fifty times I've had someone say to me, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I tried a podcast, but you know, the market's just saturated.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't going to work. And they did, like the

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Speaker 1: average podcast does seven episodes. That's how long the average

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Speaker 1: podcast lasts. And when I ask people how many episodes

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Speaker 1: they did, it's never more than twenty or thirty. It's

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Speaker 1: usually less than ten, and I go, I did, including

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Speaker 1: my other you know, I did hundreds before it even

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Speaker 1: and it also I'll let the audience figure out whether

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Speaker 1: or not I'm any good at this. But before I

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Speaker 1: got to a point where I thought, well, I'm not

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Speaker 1: shit at this, it was still hundreds of episodes, you know, yeah, yeah, And.

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Speaker 2: I look, I could tell you the same story over

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Speaker 2: and over again, but I'll tell you a similar story

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Speaker 2: about my son James, who you've interviewed. I think, yeah, yeah, Now, James,

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Speaker 2: he does that clean bill side where he's rung every

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Speaker 2: doctor in Australia and every dentist in Australia, and he

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Speaker 2: does it every six months. And that's you know, that's

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Speaker 2: twenty thousand, thirty thousand, forty thousand people. He's paying people

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Speaker 2: to ring them. He's paying it out of his own pocket.

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Speaker 2: He's been doing it for four or five years and

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Speaker 2: losing money hand over fist. No one's getting him to

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Speaker 2: do it. He's basically providing a public service. And yet

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Speaker 2: suddenly people are asking him can they purchase his data

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Speaker 2: and can they purchase subscriptions to his data? And in

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Speaker 2: the last few months he started getting serious orders for

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Speaker 2: something that for the last four or five years, he

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Speaker 2: was losing serious amounts of his own hobby money in

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Speaker 2: essence running and it was just out of sheer persistence

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Speaker 2: of knowing that this is something that had value, knowing

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Speaker 2: that it needed to be done, and just persisting. That

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Speaker 2: got him too a point where now when his siblings

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Speaker 2: hear about him making yet another sale and you know,

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Speaker 2: making more in a sale than he makes than they

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Speaker 2: make in a year, you know, they're they're regarding him

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Speaker 2: as an overnight success when he's anything but because you've

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Speaker 2: had to really really grind and just like you with

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Speaker 2: the podcast, do that for so long. And the same

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Speaker 2: thing happened with me with the Sweet Poison books, which

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Speaker 2: were the first thing that sort of got me the

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Speaker 2: publishing deals and so on. Is for the first two

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Speaker 2: years of Sweet Poison being out there, I think they

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Speaker 2: sold maybe two thousand books. You know, there was word

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Speaker 2: of mouth, I guess, going around it. There was no

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Speaker 2: real evidence that anyone cared. And then suddenly, all of

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Speaker 2: a sudden it just took off and people would look

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Speaker 2: at that and say, overnight success. Sure, but what about

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Speaker 2: the three or four years you pore that?

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Speaker 1: What why do you I mean, just specific to that,

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Speaker 1: What do you think that was about? Like? Why did

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Speaker 1: that catch fire when it had been, you know, in

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Speaker 1: a holding pattern for so long. I think that there's

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Speaker 1: things going on under the surface that you can't see,

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Speaker 1: that you don't feel like. All I did was go

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Speaker 1: out and do every radio spot I could possibly think of,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'd pitch things left, right and center.

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Speaker 2: Every day. I got told told no more times than

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Speaker 2: you've had hot dinners, and it didn't stop me continuing

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Speaker 2: to ask. I'd write something about sugar, There'd be a

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Speaker 2: story in the media, there'd be something about something in

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Speaker 2: a canteen, people you know, eating this, that or the other,

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Speaker 2: and I'd pitch it at everyone I could think of,

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Speaker 2: and sometimes they do an interview with me, and there'd

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Speaker 2: be no obvious effect of that, because how would you know.

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Speaker 2: But I think what happens is under the surface enough

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Speaker 2: people here at enough times, from enough different people that

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Speaker 2: it suddenly translates into an obvious movement.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, yeah, it's funny how you think. I mean,

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Speaker 1: we have these I know, we're not talking about our

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Speaker 1: intended topic. Fuck it, it's funny how you have these

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Speaker 1: ideas of what will work and what won't and how

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Speaker 1: things might transpire. I did a I was like fifteen

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Speaker 1: years ago. Now I did a maybe twelve years ago.

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Speaker 1: I've done a few random interviews, probably like yourself on TV.

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Speaker 1: I've worked in radio a lot, but bits and pieces

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Speaker 1: of Telly. And I got interviewed on Channel ten on

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Speaker 1: the Morning show with David and Kim. It was it

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Speaker 1: was a national show. I think I got into. I

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Speaker 1: don't even know what the topic was, but it was

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Speaker 1: on my at that stage. It was very health fitness

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Speaker 1: exercise based. I did that and then after I did

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Speaker 1: the interview, I got called up to the executive producers.

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Speaker 1: One of the people on the floor with a clipboard

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Speaker 1: and the fucking microphone like the Hungry Jack's headset came

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Speaker 1: and said, oh, the executive producer once talked to you,

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Speaker 1: and I go, that sounds terrifying. Anyway, I went. It

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Speaker 1: was a lady called Sandy.

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Speaker 2: I met her.

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Speaker 1: She goes, what Telly have you done?

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Speaker 2: Like?

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Speaker 1: What have you done? And I said none, really, like

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Speaker 1: nothing other than just random interviews. And she goes, oh,

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Speaker 1: she goes, would you would you like to come back

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Speaker 1: next week and do another spot? And I went sure,

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Speaker 1: which I didn't really know was an audition, and I

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Speaker 1: came back and did another spot and then she asked

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Speaker 1: me if I want to be a regular, right, But

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Speaker 1: my long winded point is I went, fuck, this is it.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to kill now. I'm on National Telly. I'm

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Speaker 1: a big deal. Now. It didn't change one thing. Like

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Speaker 1: it didn't like I thought, I'm going to be so

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Speaker 1: big in about two weeks. And I mean, you know

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Speaker 1: a few people like it had.

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Speaker 2: That's what I thought when you started having me on

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Speaker 2: the You project.

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Speaker 1: Great, No, it's.

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Speaker 2: It's a Maine shade. I'm set now, Bloody Craig half

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Speaker 2: was talking to me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it's not happening, but it is. I wanted

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Speaker 1: to ask you back to the back to the you

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Speaker 1: know you coming up being a gifted academic or at

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Speaker 1: least you know, having that intellectual advantage, which is that's

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Speaker 1: just what you're born with.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I wasn't anything I did. And that's the only

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Speaker 2: thing is is you know, you say something like that

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Speaker 2: and people think you're big, noting yourself, and it's kind

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Speaker 2: of the opposite because I didn't do anything for that.

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Speaker 2: I got born. I mean, if we look at a

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Speaker 2: biological example, Actually it was my mother who did it,

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Speaker 2: because she stored enough of the right kind of fat

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Speaker 2: in her buttocks to give me a brain capable of

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Speaker 2: doing those things that higher speeds. And you know, that's

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Speaker 2: the biochemistry of it all and worth knowing. By the way,

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Speaker 2: if you're number two child in a rush or number

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Speaker 2: three child in a rush, is it all the good

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Speaker 2: stuff might have been used up on the first child.

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Speaker 2: I am an eldest child, by the way.

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Speaker 1: That is hilarious. So it's all about your mum's buttocks everyone,

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Speaker 1: it is.

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Speaker 2: Yep, that's what kind of fat she stores in a bum.

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Speaker 1: Wow, that is just all kinds of weird. But I

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Speaker 1: was thinking about, Look, you're exactly right, and it's like,

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Speaker 1: there are some things that like, I think I'm natural.

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Speaker 1: I'm a reasonably articulate, I'm reasonally good communicator, And even

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Speaker 1: when I was a young fat kid, I was probably

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Speaker 1: a better communicator than most of my peers in terms

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Speaker 1: of I could hold conversations with grown ups and you know,

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Speaker 1: and kind of be right there in the middle of

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Speaker 1: it and have been needed to be, didn't you because

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Speaker 1: you know it was going to be all to otherwise.

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Speaker 1: That's reminds you of something that a mate said to

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Speaker 1: me when we were, you know, eighteen year olds. And

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Speaker 1: he was a fairly wealthy family and his parents bought

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Speaker 1: him a pretty flash car when he was an eighteen

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Speaker 1: year old. And I managed to buy my own Hold

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Speaker 1: and Gemini out of my earnings at working at the

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Speaker 1: sports store, and no one was was a secondhand blue

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Speaker 1: nurse's car, you know, one of those really nice pale

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Speaker 1: blue Hold Geminis. And he used to say, have a

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Speaker 1: go at me and say, you know you're never going

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Speaker 1: to pick up in that car, right, And I said

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Speaker 1: to him, mate, if a girl interested in me when

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Speaker 1: I'm driving this car, then she's interested in me, not

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Speaker 1: the car. That is. That is very good retort and

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Speaker 1: true that is.

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Speaker 2: Whereas with him lingering down, is it the Ferrari or

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Speaker 2: is it the guy driving the Ferrari?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, well yeah, did he literally have a Ferrari?

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Speaker 2: Yes, he did literally had a Ferrari? Oh my god,

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Speaker 2: Oh my god.

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Speaker 1: That that's I mean, there's wealthy and then they're stupid

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Speaker 1: wealthy or maybe stupid debt, who knows. I was going

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Speaker 1: to ask you, though, do you think that like we're

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Speaker 1: talking about kids or we do talk a little bit

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Speaker 1: about kids being you know, resilient and like, because I

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Speaker 1: mean my mum and dad I had a great childhood.

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Speaker 1: But I certainly wasn't molly coddled on any level. You know,

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Speaker 1: I was an only kid, but Mum and dad worked

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Speaker 1: all the time. I let myself in at four o'clock

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Speaker 1: when I got home, or three forty five when I

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Speaker 1: got home. Mom and Dad got home at six. And

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Speaker 1: in the country kid, I was one of them. Yeah yeah,

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Speaker 1: And I mean like I had everything I needed. I

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Speaker 1: didn't live in a house with any violence or any

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Speaker 1: alcoholism or any abuse. So I was very fortunate. But

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Speaker 1: you know that, like there wasn't any kind of doting,

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Speaker 1: so to speak. And so when by the time when

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Speaker 1: I was doing Year twelve, like a couple of months in,

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Speaker 1: Mom and Dad sat me down because we moved a lot.

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Speaker 1: I thought Dad was a drug dealer, but he wasn't.

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Speaker 1: But we moved a lot. No, he worked in retail.

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Speaker 1: Then he got off at a job in Tasmania, a

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Speaker 1: state manager for an organization called Brashes, which you might

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Speaker 1: remember Brashes Yeah still yeah, yeah, yeah. So anyway, they moved.

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Speaker 1: I was seventeen, so I stayed and that was the

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Speaker 1: last time I lived with him. I was seventeen years old,

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Speaker 1: and I lived essentially, I boarded with a family, but

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Speaker 1: essentially lived by myself. But so when I came out

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Speaker 1: and I started working, I was already resilient. I was

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Speaker 1: already making decisions, I was already sustaining, and I was

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Speaker 1: seventeen years old. Then at eighteen, I moved to Western

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Speaker 1: Australia by myself. Worked on a construction site through the

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Speaker 1: day and worked in gyms at night, and then worked

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Speaker 1: in pubs three nights a week. After that, I had

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Speaker 1: three jobs when I was eighteen. And not saying that's

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Speaker 1: good or bad, but I feel like sometimes now maybe

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Speaker 1: where over I don't know, over molly coddling or protecting

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Speaker 1: our kids to the point where when they do leave

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Speaker 1: the nest, maybe they don't have the resourcefulness and resilience

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Speaker 1: that's going to hold them in good stead.

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Speaker 2: Well, there's quite a lot written about this, and I

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Speaker 2: think I probably went over some of it in the

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Speaker 2: teen Brain book. That adolescence has been extended. So it's

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Speaker 2: probably a result of the extension in first age of

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Speaker 2: first birth. So age of first birth for females in

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Speaker 2: Australia has massively increased in the last twenty or thirty years.

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Speaker 2: So when Lizzie, my wife, and I had our first

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Speaker 2: child at I think she was twenty five, that was

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Speaker 2: relatively late for our generation. So that was, you know,

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Speaker 2: in the nineties, and that was relatively late. You know,

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Speaker 2: a lot of her friends had already had their first child,

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Speaker 2: you know, twenty three, twenty four years old. You say

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Speaker 2: that to a twenty three or twenty four year old

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Speaker 2: now and they will think you're insane. They do not

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Speaker 2: have an expectation that they will be having children until

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Speaker 2: their mid thirties if then, And that reflects what's going

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Speaker 2: on in the population in general. According to the ABS statistics,

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Speaker 2: at least when I wrote teen Brain, which is a

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Speaker 2: few years ago now this is probably much higher than this,

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Speaker 2: But when I wrote that, I think was something like

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Speaker 2: thirty three point five. So is the average age of

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Speaker 2: the mother at their first child. So it's that extension

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Speaker 2: of childhood from on average mothers having their first child

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Speaker 2: in their low twenties to their low to mid thirties

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Speaker 2: means that there's an extended period where the child is

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Speaker 2: probably effectively being looked after by their parents, and probably

395
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Speaker 2: having their housing provided by their parents. And that's a

396
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Speaker 2: consequence of the economy that's been built by honest so

397
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Speaker 2: quite honestly quite weird tax policy where we subsidize the

398
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Speaker 2: investment in property, and all of that added together means

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Speaker 2: that adolescence doesn't finish at eighteen or anything like it,

400
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Speaker 2: or seventeen in your case, it's more normal to be

401
00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:58,400
Speaker 2: thinking about a thirty year old as what you were

402
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Speaker 2: at seventeen.

403
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Speaker 1: Yeah, when I was eight or eighteen and a half,

404
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Speaker 1: this is not a good childhood, but I mean it

405
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Speaker 1: just was mine. Like I was quite big, I was

406
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Speaker 1: a bodybuilder. I was working in gyms, I was working

407
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Speaker 1: on construction all day. When I was eighteen and a half,

408
00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:16,400
Speaker 1: I was working in pubs three nights a week getting

409
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Speaker 1: punched in the face like, which is no surprise at

410
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Speaker 1: the job.

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Speaker 2: They said that our craig, listen, we just want to

412
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Speaker 2: stand over there and get punched in the face.

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Speaker 1: Well, we want you to stand over there and be

414
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Speaker 1: large and intimidating and don't let dickheads in. I mean

415
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Speaker 1: that was my brief, right, or get rid of dickheads, right, whatever,

416
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Speaker 1: But you think about putting a teenager in that position

417
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Speaker 1: now like you wouldn't even you wouldn't dream of it.

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Speaker 2: Do you think that?

419
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Speaker 1: Okay, So I just want to talk for a moment

420
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Speaker 1: about potential and with children, helping them develop their potential,

421
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Speaker 1: whether that's academic, whether that's you know, a commercial potential,

422
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:05,080
Speaker 1: physical potential, you know, relationships, communication. I feel like, you know,

423
00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:09,000
Speaker 1: if we're we're delaying their development so to speak, or

424
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:13,360
Speaker 1: they're you know, they're basically becoming twenty five year old teenagers,

425
00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:17,680
Speaker 1: what's that doing to their capacity for growth and learning

426
00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:23,400
Speaker 1: and optimizing their either intellectual potential or whatever.

427
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Speaker 2: It's It's probably not doing much if you consider that

428
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Speaker 2: the generation that that is happening to, and this, you know,

429
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:35,440
Speaker 2: we are going to work our way back around to

430
00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:38,720
Speaker 2: a bit of a topic here that the generation that

431
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:41,840
Speaker 2: that is happening to are not like any other generation,

432
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Speaker 2: and they're not like their parents either, And there's a

433
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:50,240
Speaker 2: tendency for parents these days to think that criticism of

434
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:54,040
Speaker 2: you know, kids that age is just the usual you

435
00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:56,800
Speaker 2: know kids these days type criticism you know that you

436
00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:59,800
Speaker 2: get from every older generation is ah, these rat bag

437
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:01,560
Speaker 2: you know, you got it in the sixties and the

438
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:03,720
Speaker 2: seventies and the eighties and so on. But there is

439
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:08,240
Speaker 2: a fundamental difference with this generation, and it started thirteen

440
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:14,120
Speaker 2: years ago and we are just now starting to see

441
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:19,960
Speaker 2: it make a difference. And the thing that happened thirteen

442
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:22,920
Speaker 2: years ago is the iPad was released. And this is

443
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:25,160
Speaker 2: not to say that, you know, Apple is the enemy

444
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:27,159
Speaker 2: of the universe, it's just that they were the first.

445
00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:31,200
Speaker 2: And why it mattered that the iPad was released is

446
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:34,879
Speaker 2: suddenly you had Internet on a stick, in the sense

447
00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:38,679
Speaker 2: that prior to that, if you wanted to access the Internet,

448
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:42,240
Speaker 2: you really had to be somewhere near a computer, which

449
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:45,560
Speaker 2: had to be somewhere near a PowerPoint, and somewhere near

450
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:51,720
Speaker 2: an Internet connection, usually a cable. And what the iPad

451
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:54,760
Speaker 2: and a few years before the iPhone had done is

452
00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:58,520
Speaker 2: unshackle all of that, so that suddenly you had the

453
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:04,520
Speaker 2: Internet twenty four seven heaven, anywhere you were. And that's

454
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 2: a very, very big change if it's coupled with some

455
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:10,400
Speaker 2: other things that happened around about the same time, which

456
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:13,480
Speaker 2: is the invention of or at least the getting big

457
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:19,400
Speaker 2: of things like Facebook, Instagram, first person shooter gaming, online gambling,

458
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:28,800
Speaker 2: and a high resolution free pornography. Now old fellas like

459
00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:31,880
Speaker 2: us will remember Craig that it wasn't that long ago

460
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:35,080
Speaker 2: that if you wanted to engage in the looking at

461
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:38,600
Speaker 2: nude young ladies, you would have to make a trip

462
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:41,119
Speaker 2: to your local newsagent.

463
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:45,960
Speaker 1: By a periodical called Mayfair.

464
00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:49,359
Speaker 2: That's right, or Playboy even And you know, have you

465
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:55,080
Speaker 2: raised ready to undo the CNS house, right? And you

466
00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:58,479
Speaker 2: compare that to what the average seventeen, sixteen, fifteen year

467
00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:01,760
Speaker 2: old boy has access to today twenty four to seven

468
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:05,760
Speaker 2: in their pocket. And it's just not even on the

469
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:10,239
Speaker 2: same planet. And I'm not wanting to target pornography. It's

470
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:12,760
Speaker 2: just that pornography is a terrific example to the people

471
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:18,119
Speaker 2: who say simulation can't be addictive. So often when I

472
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:21,880
Speaker 2: talk about addiction to groups, people you know, are quite

473
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:24,440
Speaker 2: clear on the fact that you know, obviously nicotine is addictive,

474
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:27,560
Speaker 2: and alcohol is addictive, and cocaine's addictive, and heroin's addictive.

475
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:31,320
Speaker 2: That's all very clear. These are substances clear as But

476
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:33,680
Speaker 2: often people will say when I say, okay, well yeah,

477
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:37,440
Speaker 2: but so gaming apps, and they'll say, oh, yeah, but

478
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:40,200
Speaker 2: that's that's just a simulation. You know, that's that's not

479
00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:43,760
Speaker 2: real and it's not a substance. No one's injecting that

480
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:47,680
Speaker 2: into your veins. And pornography is a great example of

481
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:52,959
Speaker 2: a simulation that is quite addictive. You know, it's got

482
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:56,120
Speaker 2: a syndrome that we know is related to high levels

483
00:27:56,119 --> 00:28:00,280
Speaker 2: of addiction. And then as people say, oh, that's a

484
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:02,400
Speaker 2: bit of a stretch, I don't know any porn addicts, well,

485
00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:04,200
Speaker 2: you know, you might be mixing with the wrong crowd,

486
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:09,760
Speaker 2: because we certainly know about gambling addicts, which is yet

487
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:14,760
Speaker 2: another simulation addiction. And so it shows that it's possible

488
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:18,200
Speaker 2: to addict the human brain by simply running a simulation

489
00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:21,520
Speaker 2: that stimulates dopamine, which both of those things do. And

490
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:26,159
Speaker 2: what we did in twenty eleven is distribute a device,

491
00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 2: a delivery platform which allowed simulations of dopamine stimulation to

492
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:35,920
Speaker 2: be distributed, so not just pornography, not just gambling, but

493
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 2: some new fangled ones like the one that simulates oxytocin stimulation,

494
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:43,160
Speaker 2: which we call social media, or the one that O

495
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:48,720
Speaker 2: you know, that simulates dopamine stimulation from fear, which is

496
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:54,160
Speaker 2: what we call gaming. So we did that thirteen years ago.

497
00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 2: So no parent today can say they know what it's

498
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:02,760
Speaker 2: like to be a teenager today. Because no parent today

499
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:09,560
Speaker 2: grew up surrounded by addiction. No parent today grew up

500
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:14,720
Speaker 2: with addiction available twenty four to seven, and that's very,

501
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:19,320
Speaker 2: very different. And remembering that the only time you can

502
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:23,000
Speaker 2: really become addicted as a human is those ten years

503
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:28,240
Speaker 2: between the start of puberty and your early twenties, because

504
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:31,440
Speaker 2: that's the only time the brains defenses against addiction are down,

505
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:36,880
Speaker 2: then no parent of life today can understand what it's

506
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 2: like to have grown up in an age where addiction

507
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:44,280
Speaker 2: was available for all of those ten years. So we've

508
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:48,200
Speaker 2: gone from a situation where in our day as teenagers,

509
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:50,400
Speaker 2: if you wanted to get addicted to something, you had

510
00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:54,800
Speaker 2: to be pretty damn risk, high risk taker to You

511
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:58,160
Speaker 2: had to find a way to get access to something

512
00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:00,160
Speaker 2: that was potentially addictive, and you had to be able

513
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:04,400
Speaker 2: to do it regularly, so adventurous and the high risk

514
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:06,680
Speaker 2: takers were the ones who became addicts, which was very

515
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:09,440
Speaker 2: very small percentage of the population. Now, if you want

516
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:12,040
Speaker 2: to become an addict, and even if you don't, all

517
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:15,320
Speaker 2: you have to do is turn on your phone and

518
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:20,520
Speaker 2: you have total privacy to do that anywhere, anyhow, anytime. Now,

519
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:24,640
Speaker 2: the kids these days aren't kids these days. They are

520
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:28,360
Speaker 2: a completely different beast because they're the first humans where

521
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:31,440
Speaker 2: every single one of them has been exposed twenty four

522
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:33,840
Speaker 2: to seven to addiction. Now, the interesting thing is it's

523
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:37,480
Speaker 2: taken us thirteen years, but we are finally seeing every

524
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:40,120
Speaker 2: single day in the paper. Every day, every time I

525
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:42,560
Speaker 2: pick up the paper, I see yet another story about

526
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:46,200
Speaker 2: social media addiction and how the government wants to limit

527
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:49,640
Speaker 2: the age of access and all that good stuff. Well,

528
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:52,360
Speaker 2: that's all really fabulous. None of it will have any

529
00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:55,040
Speaker 2: effect because that is not the primary source of addiction

530
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:58,680
Speaker 2: and it's not going to change anything making a rule

531
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 2: about whether someone has to be seen in order to

532
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:04,560
Speaker 2: access it. But the good news is at least they're

533
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:06,360
Speaker 2: acknowledging that there's a problem.

534
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:11,240
Speaker 1: So if social media is not, what are you saying

535
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:12,280
Speaker 1: when you say it's not the.

536
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:14,760
Speaker 2: Source of addiction, Well, it is a source of addiction,

537
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:19,240
Speaker 2: but it's it's It would be sort of like saying,

538
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 2: you know what we're going to do. We're going to

539
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:25,280
Speaker 2: go into this room full of alcoholics and cocaine addicts

540
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:30,680
Speaker 2: and we're going to stop them smoking. Okay, good, that's

541
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:33,320
Speaker 2: a good thing. And yes, you are removing an addiction.

542
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 2: But is it the primary problem? No, it isn't. Is

543
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:41,520
Speaker 2: it a pathway to the problem, Yes it is, and

544
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:43,680
Speaker 2: yes it's great that we're talking about it. And yes

545
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:46,560
Speaker 2: it's great that we're recognizing that it's possible to create

546
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:49,960
Speaker 2: addiction using something as innocuous as a social media app.

547
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:52,480
Speaker 2: But there's a long pathway to go there.

548
00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 1: And and interestingly, while obviously you know, booze and drugs

549
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:03,840
Speaker 1: create you know, where we're putting a physical thing in

550
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 1: our physical body and creating a physiological response, We're still

551
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:13,760
Speaker 1: creating a physiological response even with a virtual stimulus.

552
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:16,720
Speaker 2: Right, absolutely, you know, it's still like it's.

553
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:21,280
Speaker 1: Like oxytocin and or dopamine is what people are addicted to.

554
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:23,959
Speaker 1: It's just that the pathway is different.

555
00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I look, I mean not to get too

556
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:31,320
Speaker 2: graphic for your audience, but looking at pornography generally creates

557
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:37,160
Speaker 2: a real world physiological response. So that's an example of

558
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:42,440
Speaker 2: having nothing other than your imagination essentially, Yes, you know,

559
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:48,920
Speaker 2: with some visual aids getting a real world biochemical response.

560
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:53,760
Speaker 1: Who's there's there's a new term for pornography. Okay, kids,

561
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:56,520
Speaker 1: we're going to call these everyone jrop this down. Visual aids.

562
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:02,760
Speaker 1: There's a physical logical response boys and girls, and the same.

563
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 2: Thing happens less obviously. I guess every time you stimulate dopamine,

564
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:10,520
Speaker 2: and it's relatively easy to stimulate dopamine, all you've got

565
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:14,120
Speaker 2: to do is simulate something that stimulates don't mean in

566
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:17,200
Speaker 2: the real world, but do it a lot more quickly

567
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:20,360
Speaker 2: and a lot more frequently. And so when you play

568
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:24,240
Speaker 2: a first person shooter game, that's simulating what it's like

569
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:26,680
Speaker 2: to be an armed combat in the real world, which

570
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:31,160
Speaker 2: believe me, would stimulate dopamine. But you get to do

571
00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:34,240
Speaker 2: it a thousand times a day rather than once in

572
00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:35,000
Speaker 2: your lifetime.

573
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:40,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, but also the downside of first person shooter games

574
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:44,720
Speaker 1: is not just dopamine, but you know, adrenaline and cortisol,

575
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:47,640
Speaker 1: which you know enough of that over a long enough

576
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:49,880
Speaker 1: time is shit.

577
00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:53,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, look there are downsides to all of this stuff.

578
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:55,160
Speaker 2: I mean to the substances. There are you know, lots

579
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:58,360
Speaker 2: of downsides because they will have side effects. And people say, oh,

580
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:01,480
Speaker 2: but hold on, isn't isn't say something like social media,

581
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:04,840
Speaker 2: which also gives a dopamine stimulation, and the real world

582
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:08,479
Speaker 2: example that it's simulating is what happens in the real world,

583
00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:10,759
Speaker 2: when we do something and somebody tells us they like

584
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:13,359
Speaker 2: what we're doing, which is our social glue, the thing

585
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:15,719
Speaker 2: that binds us together. We feel good when people in

586
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:18,680
Speaker 2: our group tell us they like what we're doing. So

587
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:23,680
Speaker 2: that's the oxytocin which generates the dopamine stimulation. Social media

588
00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:26,319
Speaker 2: multiplies that by factors of a thousand, because all you've

589
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:28,240
Speaker 2: got to do is put a picture up and see alike,

590
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:30,480
Speaker 2: and every time you see that like, you get the

591
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:36,279
Speaker 2: little oxotocin hit. So these simulators, when you do them

592
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:39,520
Speaker 2: frequently enough, generate lots of dophin. Now, as you say,

593
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:42,600
Speaker 2: some of them have other side effects. So for example,

594
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:46,040
Speaker 2: that one, the one that's created by first person shooter,

595
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 2: you're getting testosterone stimulation, you're getting adrenaline stimulation, and they

596
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:52,719
Speaker 2: all have their own side effects. But people would say, okay,

597
00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:55,080
Speaker 2: but let's pull back from that. Is there any real

598
00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:59,120
Speaker 2: problem of people being addicts? Yes, there is. Yeah, if

599
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:03,000
Speaker 2: you look at people being addicts to substances, you'd say, sure,

600
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 2: there's a real problem, but they're the problems associated with

601
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:07,600
Speaker 2: the side effects. So if you say the problem with

602
00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:12,360
Speaker 2: people being alcoholics is that they're drunk, So if you

603
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:15,719
Speaker 2: could be an alcoholic without being drunk, would there be

604
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:18,879
Speaker 2: a problem. You'd be feeling good most of the time,

605
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:21,040
Speaker 2: no one else would notice, and it wouldn't affect the

606
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:24,920
Speaker 2: way you worked. You're still an addict. But it's the

607
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:28,120
Speaker 2: side effect that causes people to be concerned about addiction.

608
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:31,120
Speaker 2: And so they would say, Okay, well, this electronic addiction

609
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:33,720
Speaker 2: we're talking about here, if it weren't for the fact

610
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:39,880
Speaker 2: that you lose money by gambling, would having a gambling

611
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:43,360
Speaker 2: problem be a problem? The answer is yes, it is

612
00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:46,520
Speaker 2: because the biochemistry that creates the addiction, and I know

613
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:50,439
Speaker 2: we've talked about this before, perverts the way our brain

614
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:58,000
Speaker 2: perceives risk and creates anxiety, depression ADHD, ultimately psychosis and schizophrenia.

615
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:02,240
Speaker 2: So it puts our brain on a pathway to in essence,

616
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:07,840
Speaker 2: insanity and depression. And so the downside to addiction shouldn't

617
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:10,439
Speaker 2: be confused with the downsides of the side effects, which

618
00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:13,560
Speaker 2: is what everyone focuses on. Ie, if you're an alcoholic,

619
00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:16,480
Speaker 2: you're drunk all the time, that's a downside. The much

620
00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:19,880
Speaker 2: worse downside to addiction is not the side effect of

621
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:23,560
Speaker 2: a substance. Because we're now talking increasingly about addictions which

622
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:27,360
Speaker 2: aren't substance based. The downside to the addiction is what

623
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:30,040
Speaker 2: it does to the human brain, which is why we

624
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:35,520
Speaker 2: are seeing teen anxiety, teen depression, teen ADHD, teen suicide

625
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:40,440
Speaker 2: at levels we have never seen it before, because we

626
00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:43,400
Speaker 2: are exposing that entire population to addiction.

627
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:49,239
Speaker 1: Wow. I was chatting, we'll wind up. But I was

628
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:52,800
Speaker 1: chatting to a guy recently who drinks and smokes, and

629
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:55,279
Speaker 1: he was asking me some stuff. I said, how much

630
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 1: do you smoke? And he said a pack a day

631
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 1: And I don't even know what's in a and I

632
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:03,440
Speaker 1: can't remember if you said thirty or thirty five. And

633
00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:06,960
Speaker 1: I said how much is that? And he's like sixty.

634
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:10,800
Speaker 1: I go, you spend sixty dollars a day on cigarettes?

635
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:13,440
Speaker 1: And he goes, yep, I go, that's four hundred and

636
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:16,919
Speaker 1: twenty dollars a week. That's twenty one thousand dollars a year.

637
00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:21,320
Speaker 1: That's twenty one k a year on cigarettes before he

638
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:24,080
Speaker 1: eats a sandwich or has a beer, or pays a

639
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:27,360
Speaker 1: bill or puts gas in his car. I'm like fuck.

640
00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:31,800
Speaker 1: I mean, apart from all the horrible consequences of smoking,

641
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:34,360
Speaker 1: you need to be rich to smoke.

642
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:37,239
Speaker 2: And the interesting thing is that if you were to

643
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:40,520
Speaker 2: ask him, why don't you stop, he would say, I

644
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:44,839
Speaker 2: want to stop, I just can't. Yeah, every addict wants

645
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:48,800
Speaker 2: to stop. Every addict knows they're an addict. Every teenager

646
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 2: who can't get off social media knows they're addicted to

647
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:53,640
Speaker 2: social media. They want to get off it just as

648
00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:56,200
Speaker 2: much as your friend wants to get off smoking. But

649
00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 2: that's the definition of addiction. If you could stop, you

650
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:02,719
Speaker 2: wouldn't be an addict. And that's the interesting point that

651
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:06,200
Speaker 2: everyone forgets when they start making moral judgments about addiction.

652
00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:11,120
Speaker 1: Hey, let's wind up, but before we do, has your

653
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:16,840
Speaker 1: new fiction book that's in the pipeline. You've been a

654
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:19,759
Speaker 1: non fiction man, but now you're opening the door on

655
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:21,520
Speaker 1: storytelling of sorts.

656
00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:26,040
Speaker 2: I'm still playing around with stuff, you know. The interesting

657
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:28,640
Speaker 2: thing is I'm finding AI really helpful for this sort

658
00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:32,240
Speaker 2: of thing. Yeah. No, not meaning that I'm having AI

659
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:34,880
Speaker 2: write a book for me, but it's really interesting to

660
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:38,560
Speaker 2: do some stuff like I find playing with the style

661
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:42,360
Speaker 2: in AI really really interesting. So if you write something,

662
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:45,439
Speaker 2: just write it how you'd write it, and then say,

663
00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:49,680
Speaker 2: rewrite this in the style of a certain author and

664
00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:54,080
Speaker 2: It's incredible what a job it does on replicating that,

665
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:59,480
Speaker 2: and I find it fascinating. I also find it fascinating

666
00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:02,080
Speaker 2: if you are ask it to say, look at a

667
00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:04,440
Speaker 2: narrative arc that you've created. You know, so what the

668
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:06,319
Speaker 2: storyline is going to be. You say, this is going

669
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:07,680
Speaker 2: to happen, and then that's going to happen, and this

670
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:09,399
Speaker 2: character is going to have that happen to them, etc.

671
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:12,319
Speaker 2: You give it that narrative arc, and then you say, right,

672
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:15,680
Speaker 2: I want you to line this up with narrative arcs

673
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:19,000
Speaker 2: typically used by this or that author, and it'll come

674
00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:23,719
Speaker 2: back with adjustments to the narrative arc which we'll say

675
00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:26,720
Speaker 2: things like, well, what about if we kill this character

676
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:31,120
Speaker 2: off here, or if we impose risk on this character here?

677
00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:35,719
Speaker 2: And I find that's an interesting use of the technology

678
00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:36,120
Speaker 2: as well.

679
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:42,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've had two interesting experiences lately. One is someone

680
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:45,440
Speaker 1: said to me, I've been doing this deep dive on

681
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:48,479
Speaker 1: you know, the way that our thoughts can impact our body.

682
00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:51,200
Speaker 1: And somebody said to me, you need to read the

683
00:39:51,239 --> 00:39:55,239
Speaker 1: Biology of Belief by doctor Bruce Lipton, which you'd be

684
00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:59,640
Speaker 1: fascinated in. And I think I started it fifteen years ago,

685
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:02,040
Speaker 1: but I and finish it. So I just typed in

686
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:05,759
Speaker 1: chatter GPT can you give me a synopsis of the book,

687
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:10,680
Speaker 1: And it just gave me this fucking amazing one page overview,

688
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:14,880
Speaker 1: like like, so, I mean, I know it's not you know,

689
00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:18,399
Speaker 1: it's concise, but I'm like, I've got a reasonably good

690
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:21,520
Speaker 1: understanding of the core messages and key messages in three

691
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:24,440
Speaker 1: or four minutes, which doesn't replace reading it. But then

692
00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:27,600
Speaker 1: the other day I was often when I I'm doing something,

693
00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:30,480
Speaker 1: I don't type it in. I just talk into my phone.

694
00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:33,279
Speaker 1: I go, you know, what are the what's the you know,

695
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:37,400
Speaker 1: at what age does the average Australian give birth for

696
00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:40,239
Speaker 1: the first time or something? You know? And I said,

697
00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:44,439
Speaker 1: I said to it, how trainable like this is? I said,

698
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:47,279
Speaker 1: to chat to you, how trainable are you? I said,

699
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:51,719
Speaker 1: can you use my name when we talk? Goes sure, Craig.

700
00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:53,279
Speaker 1: Would you like me to use it at the start

701
00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:55,160
Speaker 1: of the conversation or would you like me to weave

702
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:58,640
Speaker 1: it through our conversations? And I didn't tell it my name.

703
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:02,120
Speaker 1: Obviously it has acts as to that information. But it

704
00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:05,520
Speaker 1: was creepy how quick it went Sure Craig and then

705
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:08,560
Speaker 1: just started talking to me like we were on the phone. Yep,

706
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:11,440
Speaker 1: it is fucking amazing.

707
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:15,400
Speaker 2: Well, they do remarkable simulations of human interaction now, but

708
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:18,680
Speaker 2: the problem, the problem is remembering that it's not a human.

709
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:22,480
Speaker 2: And that's what most of us have difficulty with, is

710
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:26,359
Speaker 2: remembering we're not talking to a human. We're just talking

711
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:28,760
Speaker 2: to something that's doing a really good imitation of a human.

712
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:33,120
Speaker 1: My nervous system and my body. It's one of my

713
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:35,360
Speaker 1: best friends right now, it's in my top five friends.

714
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:41,239
Speaker 2: So hey, we appreciate you, sir, and that probably we

715
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:43,080
Speaker 2: didn't get to talk about the thing we were supposed

716
00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:43,640
Speaker 2: to talk about.

717
00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:46,560
Speaker 1: We'll talk about it another time, doesn't matter, we'll say affair.

718
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:47,960
Speaker 1: But for the moment, thanks mate

719
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:49,239
Speaker 2: See you, Greg,