Speaker 1: Cookie, it's jumbo. How are you?
Speaker 2: Oh, very good? Thank you, Jiambo, thank you for asking.
Speaker 2: How are you?
Speaker 1: I'm good. I'm good as Friday morning. Let's give everyone contexts.
Speaker 1: So the last few days have been a bit of
Speaker 1: a blurry one. So I apologize. Do I apologize? Well,
Speaker 1: you know, just kind of giving context to why we've
Speaker 1: had a couple of replays, revisited a few old episodes
Speaker 1: because I've been all over the world. Tif's been busy.
Speaker 1: I've been busy. Melissa's been busy. Wednesday, I did I
Speaker 1: don't know if I'm allowed to say. I think I'm
Speaker 1: allowed to say, just broadly speaking, I did some work
Speaker 1: with Victoria Police, which went all day, and then I
Speaker 1: went straight from there in the city to the thriving
Speaker 1: metropolis of bris Vegas on the big airplane. I still
Speaker 1: don't know how the fuck those things stay in the sky.
Speaker 1: I try not to think about it too much when
Speaker 1: I'm up there, because this thing's made of metal and
Speaker 1: it's heavy as fuck. I'm not sure how this all works.
Speaker 1: Physics is not my strong point. I tried just to
Speaker 1: put my headphones on and la la la. If I
Speaker 1: was a drinker that would definitely be the time where
Speaker 1: I would drink. And then yesterday I did an afternoon
Speaker 1: with Queensland Rail which was great, Young David up there
Speaker 1: and the team and scooched back into Melbourne last night.
Speaker 1: Had my first meeting this morning at seven hundred with
Speaker 1: Tommy Jacket And now it's nine twenty two and I've
Speaker 1: got a day full of stuff on a Friday. But
Speaker 1: it's all good. And what about you? Are you? You
Speaker 1: just got back from getting your body cracked?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've been trying to get to the chiro practice
Speaker 2: for weeks. Got a bit of shoulder stuff going on
Speaker 2: that's niggling at a bit of nerve stuff, so just
Speaker 2: you know, getting things straightened out and functioning well.
Speaker 1: I feel like chira practice are a little bit like
Speaker 1: a lot of professions personal trainers, podcasters in there. There
Speaker 1: are some good ones and some shit ones.
Speaker 2: There are, and I actually hate the term cairo practor both.
Speaker 2: The body therapy people I see are actual chiropractors by
Speaker 2: I guess their education and training, but one of them
Speaker 2: I call a physio because I feel like people relate
Speaker 2: more to what he does in that way, even though
Speaker 2: I don't like physios. When you know as the label
Speaker 2: and then the one I go to Christian today, it's
Speaker 2: more of my kind of body maintenance stuff. I don't know,
Speaker 2: they're just they're very different that it's very very different
Speaker 2: to what you associate chiropractic to be. But I go
Speaker 2: there and he does these muscle testing with my arm
Speaker 2: because the shoulders, you know, and I've got no strength
Speaker 2: or and then he'll click aty click or like I
Speaker 2: had no strength in one leg. I couldn't lift my
Speaker 2: leg up and push against his weight. And then he
Speaker 2: goes like diggle on one of my ribs and I
Speaker 2: giggle and he's like just a second and he dickle
Speaker 2: digckle again. And then next minute he goes push against
Speaker 2: my arm and my leg's like, yeah, all right, we'll
Speaker 2: go like you just switches stuff on.
Speaker 1: It's bloody magic. You should marry that dude. I mean,
Speaker 1: apart from.
Speaker 2: That a bit excited. Was that way too much enthusiasm.
Speaker 1: Apart from the fact that you'll get a discount? You
Speaker 1: know you could probably am I allowed to say pay
Speaker 1: with Nature's credit card? Wasn't that?
Speaker 2: Wasn't that sort of tickle harps?
Speaker 1: Well, I didn't say, I'm just saying how handy would
Speaker 1: it be to be married to that dude?
Speaker 2: What kind of would they keep your body functioning so well?
Speaker 1: But I wonder if you were married to him whether
Speaker 1: or not he'd like give a fuck then, because he
Speaker 1: might be like, nah, he just that is well, we're
Speaker 1: not talking about your body or you marrying your potential
Speaker 1: potentially marrying your chiropractor, although that is a conversation that
Speaker 1: I would just that, you know, Like, you know, some
Speaker 1: professions like personal trainers are also held in high regard
Speaker 1: and no regard, depending on you know, because there are
Speaker 1: personal trainers who have got master's degrees and undergrad degrees,
Speaker 1: postgrad degrees of personal trainers who've got a certificate for
Speaker 1: and fitness, which and by the way, some people with
Speaker 1: postgrad degrees are terrible trainers and some people with a
Speaker 1: basic qualification are fucking brilliant trainers. So one doesn't necessarily
Speaker 1: equal the other. But you know, it is true that
Speaker 1: you can become that qualified, registered and ensured as a
Speaker 1: personal trainer in a very short period of time really
Speaker 1: without having been into a gym very much and potentially
Speaker 1: never having worked out yourself. All of those things are true.
Speaker 1: That which is also scary. So yeah, I think you know.
Speaker 1: I reckon the way to find a chiropractor or an osteopath,
Speaker 1: or a physio or a personal trainer or an exercise physiologist.
Speaker 1: The best way is recommendation, Like just potluck ain't the go.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't go to Yeah, I wouldn't go to a
Speaker 2: random without that. I wouldn't go to just anybody and
Speaker 2: find out I'd want I want to know.
Speaker 1: No mean so in the last two days, so not yeah,
Speaker 1: Yesterday being Thursday, in the day before, I got asked
Speaker 1: three times in two days, which I thought was I
Speaker 1: get asked a fair bit, but I got asked about
Speaker 1: professional speaking and public speaking. Two people asked me essentially
Speaker 1: how they could okay. One person asked me specifically how
Speaker 1: they could improve their public speaking skills. One person asked
Speaker 1: me how they could overcome their fear or did I
Speaker 1: have any insights or strategies or ideas overcoming their fear
Speaker 1: of public speaking? And then another person that I spoke
Speaker 1: to yesterday was very curious about how I got to
Speaker 1: do my job, like, how do you how many times
Speaker 1: do you do this year? I could you know when
Speaker 1: you will start to do the numbers? It's like you
Speaker 1: can go, ah, how much do you charge for a
Speaker 1: one hour keynote or you know? And I try to
Speaker 1: be a little bit vague because I'm not really into that, right,
Speaker 1: you know. But I could see this person figuring out
Speaker 1: what might be the potential earning capacity of somebody who's
Speaker 1: a reasonably good, reasonably accomplished, reasonably busy professional speaker, and
Speaker 1: I could see the ka ching in their eyes, right
Speaker 1: fucking dollar signs, And I'm like, yeah, firstly, I'm sixty.
Speaker 1: I did my first paid speaking gig at twenty six,
Speaker 1: which is thirty four years ago, and for about ten
Speaker 1: years I was somewhere between between fucking terrible and average.
Speaker 1: And arguably some people might say that still who knows.
Speaker 1: But so someone who wanted to just get better at
Speaker 1: it because it's part of their job, they're not terrified,
Speaker 1: but they just don't feel they're very good at it,
Speaker 1: and they get a little bit lost. She said to me,
Speaker 1: I get a bit lost. I get up there, I
Speaker 1: know what I'm going to say, then I start, Then
Speaker 1: I fucking I kind of lose direction, and then I
Speaker 1: sit down and I remember all the shit I meant
Speaker 1: to say that I didn't and then the other person
Speaker 1: or the next person, like I said, was just has
Speaker 1: to do it periodically and is terrified. And the third
Speaker 1: person likes doing it and wants to turn it or
Speaker 1: potentially turn it into, if not a side hustle or
Speaker 1: a secondary revenue stream, potentially their main career. So this
Speaker 1: chat everyone is in no way an instructional fucking workshop
Speaker 1: or a directive or a prescription. But rather I thought
Speaker 1: we might have that chat about you know, TIFFs in
Speaker 1: the ballpark. Now she's doing some paid work, some unpaid work,
Speaker 1: she's working with teams and companies. Definitely is further along
Speaker 1: in terms of progression and skill development and final product
Speaker 1: than I was that many years into my speaking career.
Speaker 1: So where do we start? So what do you have
Speaker 1: any questions for me? Or have you had any light bulbs?
Speaker 1: How many years would you say you're into it now?
Speaker 1: Like actually being paid to do it a couple ease?
Speaker 2: Look, no, i'd had I think I'd started getting some
Speaker 2: paid stuff since about two thousand and nineteen or twenty.
Speaker 2: It was just pre COVID had my first couple of
Speaker 2: pay gigs. I feel like someone who for someone who's
Speaker 2: really adored that and been wanting that to be a
Speaker 2: part of my world. I feel like I've really both
Speaker 2: spun the wheels, but I'm also very aware that I've
Speaker 2: actually also done a lot of background work. But I
Speaker 2: do feel like I've spun the wheels on just going
Speaker 2: ahead and getting it upper running and getting out there
Speaker 2: and doing more of it. I've waited in the wings
Speaker 2: and I get what comes to me. I find it
Speaker 2: that way, And I think that would relate to a
Speaker 2: lot of people that want to speak, but just you
Speaker 2: don't know where to start or when you're allowed to say.
Speaker 2: I'm a speaker.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I'm just writing down a few things now.
Speaker 1: I think trying to get clear about, well, do you
Speaker 1: have a target audience? Is it anyone? Like some people go,
Speaker 1: you know what, I just want to work with women cool,
Speaker 1: or I want to work with menopause or women, or
Speaker 1: I want to work with teens, or I want to
Speaker 1: work with people who struggle with addiction, or I want
Speaker 1: to just work in the corporate space on corporate culture,
Speaker 1: communication conflict resolution, because I'm a psychologist and I specialize
Speaker 1: in communication or whatever it is. Right, So I think
Speaker 1: you know the amount of people who say to me
Speaker 1: something like I would really love to be a professional speaker.
Speaker 1: And I say, right, what do you want to talk about?
Speaker 1: And they don't know, they can't give me a definitive answer.
Speaker 1: I go, that's a problem. So even if it might
Speaker 1: be broadish, you need to you need to have some
Speaker 1: clarity around who is your target audience, who are the
Speaker 1: people that you want to speak to, what are the
Speaker 1: things that you want to speak about, And then also
Speaker 1: to understand that, especially when you start to climb the
Speaker 1: professional speaking ladder a little bit, you know, the money
Speaker 1: that some speakers demand. And remember, like a very small
Speaker 1: percentage of professional speakers make lots of money. Write lots,
Speaker 1: I mean lots of money. But there are a decent
Speaker 1: percentage of people who may definitely make a living from
Speaker 1: corporate speaking professional speaking, whether or not it is in
Speaker 1: the corporate space or with teams or athletes or the
Speaker 1: general public or whatever, or running your own works shops. Right,
Speaker 1: But it's trying to figure out. In business, we talk
Speaker 1: about this idea of a usp a unique selling proposition,
Speaker 1: and all that means is you maybe having or doing
Speaker 1: or offering something that is not exactly the same as
Speaker 1: a million other providers. Right, even when someone says to me,
Speaker 1: I want to start a podcast. I'm like, great, Please,
Speaker 1: don't just be a bad replica of the million that
Speaker 1: are already in the same space. Right And if you're
Speaker 1: going to do a podcast, really have a crack, really
Speaker 1: do great prep, really have great conversations, really get good guests,
Speaker 1: really make sure the production is high value, the editing
Speaker 1: is good, the audio is good. That you know, and
Speaker 1: then they're like, ah, by the time I go through that,
Speaker 1: some people have already given up because the idea and
Speaker 1: it's like the idea of like even when you and
Speaker 1: I started working together a little bit, with me mentoring
Speaker 1: you and helping you a little bit, and I basically
Speaker 1: said to you, and I still say to you, and
Speaker 1: we both did a gig last weekend where neither of
Speaker 1: us got paid, but we were doing something to help
Speaker 1: and support Right where I say to you, and I
Speaker 1: say to every speaker, and I'll shut up after this,
Speaker 1: because you've got your finger up, your pointed, little witchy
Speaker 1: finger is take any gig that you can get, because
Speaker 1: it's training. Like you want to be a professional footballer.
Speaker 1: You've got a fucking train and you've got to do
Speaker 1: so much work. Skilled development fitness building, resilience building before
Speaker 1: you even run out onto the ground. And so for you,
Speaker 1: doing all of these free gigs is that training, It's
Speaker 1: that prep, It's that ten thousand hours to become a master.
Speaker 1: And you did one on the weekend for sorry, just
Speaker 1: quickly we did for our friends who some of our
Speaker 1: audience know, Brad and Carley from the Fit Shop. Their
Speaker 1: joint burned down, and we had Joel Sardi and we
Speaker 1: had doctor Jodi Richardson and yourself and myself and we
Speaker 1: did about a fight. I know. It ended up being
Speaker 1: about a four hour afternoon with a bunch of great, receptive, warm,
Speaker 1: beautiful humans just raising dough for a good cause. I
Speaker 1: didn't get paid. You didn't get paid. I don't know
Speaker 1: about you, but I fucking loved it. And I get
Speaker 1: just as excited getting paid zero as I do. Obviously
Speaker 1: I'm not doing corporate work for zero, but you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, it's not like, oh, if I'm getting
Speaker 1: paid ten x versus zero X, I'm not trying less hard.
Speaker 1: I'm not less invested, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I absolutely loved it. Actually, yesterday afternoon I met
Speaker 2: one of my training guys I trained with at the gym.
Speaker 2: I met his wife for the first time and her
Speaker 2: best friend and I didn't catch her name, but she
Speaker 2: was at the event. Oh wow, Lisa said, my friend
Speaker 2: friend or neighbor was at your event and she follows
Speaker 2: this she follows this guy. She's not on social so
Speaker 2: she wasn't she follows this guy. I'm like, that'll be hearts.
Speaker 2: So that was good. But I loved that. What I
Speaker 2: wanted to say before was when you were talking about,
Speaker 2: you know, what do you want to talk about? And
Speaker 2: I feel like I can really relate to still to
Speaker 2: those people because I'm half a step out of that now.
Speaker 2: But what I still experience is it's like because a
Speaker 2: picture those people listening now going oh like and then
Speaker 2: feeling snookery because you're saying I'll figure out what you
Speaker 2: want to talk about, or I would probably say figure
Speaker 2: out what you can talk about? Because is it because
Speaker 2: figuring out what understanding, what you enjoy or you think
Speaker 2: people want to hear versus how people hear you and
Speaker 2: what they take from you as different things. And I
Speaker 2: used networking for all these years not to build my business,
Speaker 2: but to do the things I love and opportunity in
Speaker 2: that group to stand up for ten minutes and present
Speaker 2: on my business, which is essentially kind of your business
Speaker 2: sales pitch. Instead, I picked a topic to talk about,
Speaker 2: and I remember the last one I did was going
Speaker 2: in and talking about vulnerability to or pack of business people.
Speaker 2: When I went and I got Bosster ccenera in the morning,
Speaker 2: so I was like, fuck, I hell, were you really
Speaker 2: going to go in and just talk about vulnerability? But
Speaker 2: I loved it and it landed harder than any of
Speaker 2: the other talks I'd done, And so that's where I
Speaker 2: learned and went, oh, so what do people get from
Speaker 2: me when I speak? And every time I do an
Speaker 2: opportunity like the young teen girls that I did with
Speaker 2: the rev earlier this year, that I thought, well, that's
Speaker 2: not really the I don't think that's I wouldn't have
Speaker 2: thought that that would be the room I would love
Speaker 2: to be. And I did one event and went, gee,
Speaker 2: I really enjoyed. I really liked delivering that message and
Speaker 2: having that conversation. So I think also just encouraging people
Speaker 2: to think broadly, but yeah, you'll learn a lot of
Speaker 2: just taking the opportunities that do come. The hardest part
Speaker 2: is then taking that step to weave it and I've
Speaker 2: had to get help this year from somebody outside of
Speaker 2: me who she sits down with me every week for
Speaker 2: a couple of hours, and by the end of two
Speaker 2: hours with someone out of my circle, looking at the
Speaker 2: product that is Tiff now and who she is, she
Speaker 2: got she I walk away with a sense of me
Speaker 2: as a speaker that is above and beyond what I
Speaker 2: had walking into it, because I mean, I'm just meet like,
Speaker 2: I'm me in the middle of the mess, and that
Speaker 2: I don't know what would I talk about? How do
Speaker 2: I describe five keynotes?
Speaker 1: Fuck?
Speaker 2: They all sound the same to me. It's really hard.
Speaker 1: Hmm. Well, yeah, that's that's I think, finding you know,
Speaker 1: that usp that unique thing that you're going to bring.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's you know, let's be honest, there's not
Speaker 1: really any new information, but there's just different ways of
Speaker 1: presenting inspiration, education, information, theories, philosophies, stories, and it's but
Speaker 1: you might say, well, you know, like you know, yesterday
Speaker 1: with Queensland Rail we spoke. I spoke a lot about,
Speaker 1: you know, the psychology of and the sociology of how
Speaker 1: to build connection and rapport and trust. One of the
Speaker 1: questions I asked the group was to put up their
Speaker 1: hand if part of their job was dealing with people
Speaker 1: on the phone or face to face, solving problems, having
Speaker 1: meaningful conversations, understanding the needs of customers, blah blah blah,
Speaker 1: all of these things, right, and of course everyone puts
Speaker 1: up their hand. But then you think about, well, what
Speaker 1: are the variables involved in how do I work with
Speaker 1: another human being who isn't me? How do I have
Speaker 1: a meaningful conversation with somebody who isn't in my head
Speaker 1: or my reality? How do I understand their cognitive land escape?
Speaker 1: And by that I mean what they're thinking right now,
Speaker 1: theory of mind. Where are they at in this moment,
Speaker 1: What is their emotional state, what are their needs? What
Speaker 1: do they want to get from this phone call or
Speaker 1: this zoom call or this conversation or this negotiation. Right,
Speaker 1: so there's all of these things which are comfortably in
Speaker 1: my wheelhouse of communication, mindset, psychology, behavior. But then I
Speaker 1: need to figure out that's all good, Craig, But how
Speaker 1: do I relate that to their work and their job?
Speaker 1: You know? So then I go, what do you guys do?
Speaker 1: What are the things that you day to day do?
Speaker 1: Tell me what you do every day? And then let
Speaker 1: me tell you about this stuff that I understand, and
Speaker 1: let's bring that together and see how that works. And
Speaker 1: then you can see light bulbs going off and you
Speaker 1: can see people going ah, like when you say, I
Speaker 1: don't need you to agree with the person, the rude,
Speaker 1: angry person on the phone, but it's in your interest
Speaker 1: to try to understand them, or the person in the
Speaker 1: boardroom that you know they think A, and you think B,
Speaker 1: and Sally thinks C and John thinks D. We don't
Speaker 1: all need to be on the same page, but we
Speaker 1: need to be respectful and we need and this is
Speaker 1: what happens if there's no respect. This is what can
Speaker 1: happen if there is respect. So it's just trying to go,
Speaker 1: what's the stuff that I know about? And you might go,
Speaker 1: what's the stuff that you know about that that might
Speaker 1: be relevant, helpful, empowering, or of value to this group
Speaker 1: or this person. And it's so I think that starting
Speaker 1: with you know, if you're listening to this and you're like,
Speaker 1: where the fuck do I start? Where you start is
Speaker 1: by analyzing and becoming aware of what do you know
Speaker 1: a lot about? Genuinely know a lot about? What do
Speaker 1: you know a lot about or a fair bit about
Speaker 1: that you could share with people that might help people,
Speaker 1: like it doesn't need to be more complicated than that.
Speaker 1: And then so the like, I've gone through this maybe
Speaker 1: four times, I think in fifteen hundred episodes, but I'll
Speaker 1: do it once more. And you've heard it too many times, TIF,
Speaker 1: But it's like, what, there's four steps for this, And
Speaker 1: one is what is the thing that I want to
Speaker 1: talk about or what is the idea or the message
Speaker 1: that I want to share with people? Right? And then
Speaker 1: the number two is what is the story that I
Speaker 1: can tell that will help people understand the idea or
Speaker 1: understand the strategy or the topic or the message, right,
Speaker 1: Because when I just talk to people about, you know,
Speaker 1: research or science. Like I've said this before, there's a
Speaker 1: big difference between me talking about statistics around childhood obesity
Speaker 1: versus me talking about my journey as a fat kid.
Speaker 1: It's very different experience for people. But I'm saying the
Speaker 1: same thing, but one involves an emotional kind of resonance.
Speaker 1: Now I'm talking about standing on lane eight at the
Speaker 1: swimming sports and feeling like dogshit and humiliated and embarrassed.
Speaker 1: And then and then what happened emotionally, psychologically, sociologically, and
Speaker 1: then what I did, and then what I created, and
Speaker 1: then the lessons and the realizations out of that moment
Speaker 1: in time, all of a sudden, now you're connecting with
Speaker 1: people on an emotional and a sociological level, whereas when
Speaker 1: I'm just talking about graphs and charts and data and
Speaker 1: science and research, for the most part, I am not.
Speaker 1: So Number one is what is the thing, the idea,
Speaker 1: the topic, the strategy. Number two is what's a story
Speaker 1: that you have to share with people? And also you
Speaker 1: notice with you and I TIV a lot, there are
Speaker 1: stories what did you do today, how did that work
Speaker 1: for you? Blah blah blah, What was the lesson for you?
Speaker 1: And there's laughter, there's humor, and I'm lucky. That's kind
Speaker 1: of just how I am. Like, I don't you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, that's my default setting is stories and humor.
Speaker 1: But I don't do that to be strategic. But I
Speaker 1: do realize that the more levity, lightness, fun connection. Like
Speaker 1: imagine you and I get on and it sounds like
Speaker 1: and we deliver great information, but it's a fucking boring monologue.
Speaker 1: People have tuned out seven minutes in, which is why
Speaker 1: one of the reasons why I want to catch up
Speaker 1: with you at the start, I want to know what
Speaker 1: you've been doing. You want to know what I've been doing,
Speaker 1: and so that when we can, when we can morph
Speaker 1: the information, the data, the ideas into some kind of
Speaker 1: experience of storytelling and humor and relatability and vulnerability, as
Speaker 1: you said, then we can create a good experience for
Speaker 1: people to be in the middle. And it's like I
Speaker 1: am always thinking, maybe not in my prefrontal cortex at
Speaker 1: the front of my mind, but I always have an
Speaker 1: awareness of even in this moment, right how to Tiff
Speaker 1: and I do a podcast around corporate professional speaking whatever
Speaker 1: it is, is that even if someone doesn't want to
Speaker 1: do it, they still want to keep listening because a fuck,
Speaker 1: this is actually not what I thought. This is interesting.
Speaker 1: So I'm just finished, and then you jump in, I'm
Speaker 1: really sorry. So topic idea story number three is why
Speaker 1: does it matter? Like why do we need to know this? Like,
Speaker 1: in other words, what's the value of this message? And
Speaker 1: then the last one is just how do I put
Speaker 1: it into practice? So number three is why does it matter?
Speaker 1: In other words, Craig, why are you telling me this,
Speaker 1: Why is this important? And I can tell you, well,
Speaker 1: it's important for these reasons. Blah blah blah. This is
Speaker 1: like you know when I say, understanding how other people think.
Speaker 1: Theory of mind is an interpersonal superpower because if you
Speaker 1: can understand them, you can connect with them. If you
Speaker 1: can't understand them, you can't connect. And people go, ah,
Speaker 1: fuck that makes sense. All right, I'm paying attention now, right,
Speaker 1: and then how do I apply it? Well? You shut
Speaker 1: the fuck up, you lean in, you listen to people
Speaker 1: like I'm not doing now, I'm overtalk looking you you
Speaker 1: lean in. I'm not following my own teaching and leading.
Speaker 1: Well I'm trying.
Speaker 2: Thanks, I turned to shut up and listen. That's all.
Speaker 2: I'm not good at it.
Speaker 1: Perfect. We're both fucking overtalkers. So one idea topic message
Speaker 1: to story three? Why does it matter? In other words, features, advantages, benefits, right, features, advantages,
Speaker 1: benefits and number four, how do I execute it? How
Speaker 1: do I put it into practice? All right, I'll shut up.
Speaker 2: What we're going to say, Well, I love it. And
Speaker 2: what is funnily enough landing with me right now is
Speaker 2: going I've just come off that, you know, doing that
Speaker 2: talk on the weekend. Loved it, and yes, I've heard
Speaker 2: you talk about this structure a thousand times, and when
Speaker 2: you've first ever introduced it to me, I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: that's that's brilliant, Like that's that makes it easy to
Speaker 2: chunk down and think is But it's not something that
Speaker 2: I even looked back on this talk and referenced. And
Speaker 2: I see, now next time I go into a talk
Speaker 2: with that in mind, it'll help me. So my the
Speaker 2: biggest challenge is I come up with the idea. All
Speaker 2: I need to know is the general story. I know
Speaker 2: I'm off the cuff. I'm better off the cuff. Too
Speaker 2: much scripting and planning is just chaos for me. It'll
Speaker 2: send me into my mind going blank. But I can
Speaker 2: then notice another little story and just follow that trail
Speaker 2: in the middle of when in the middle of the
Speaker 2: talk and you know that, I think that happened once
Speaker 2: or twice, so I'll dart off in different directions. What
Speaker 2: this structure does is reminds me to go yet bump boom,
Speaker 2: and I think, tidy up that wrap up. So you've
Speaker 2: always got somewhere in the middle, like a little safety
Speaker 2: peg in the middle of the whole structure to come
Speaker 2: back to if you get a little bit lost. It's like,
Speaker 2: I'll just wrap this bit up here and then I've
Speaker 2: got the next bit to start, and everything feels quite tidy,
Speaker 2: and it's interesting, like luck boxing when you're not like
Speaker 2: I didn't have enough room for that on Saturday Sunday
Speaker 2: because I had a whole bunch of things that I
Speaker 2: was new ish, things I was keeping top of mind
Speaker 2: this time on top of all the stuff I'm comfortable with. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and now next time I can go all right, well,
Speaker 2: now I'm comfortable with all that, and I'm going to
Speaker 2: just make sure I do this in a really tidy way.
Speaker 1: It's cool, yes, yes, I think. Also it's important to
Speaker 1: point out that, you know, the way that I would
Speaker 1: coach you or support you to do your job is
Speaker 1: not the way that I would support or coach, say
Speaker 1: doctor Alex, the neurosurgeon who I had coffee with yesterday
Speaker 1: morning in Brisbane. We're friends and he does some public
Speaker 1: speaking too, and while we might use the same kind
Speaker 1: of four step vague kind of thing, I would not
Speaker 1: say to him just get up there, read the room, interact,
Speaker 1: be you know a bit, because he ain't that like
Speaker 1: he's very much an academic. He's very he's a deep thinker,
Speaker 1: he's brilliant his but he's not better or worse. He's different.
Speaker 1: He's different to me, he's different to you. And the
Speaker 1: way that he is going to produce the best outcome
Speaker 1: he can produce on a stage in front of people
Speaker 1: is not the same as me or you. He's not
Speaker 1: the wacky zany in the moment storytelling, you know, dick
Speaker 1: joke telling, fucking Hey gues funny thing happened? You know?
Speaker 1: That ain't him. And so we're not saying definitely not
Speaker 1: saying today be like Harps or Tiff. We're not saying
Speaker 1: that we'll find your own lane, find your own kind
Speaker 1: of protocol, like what works for you. But there are
Speaker 1: some basic things that universally work, like, you know, reinforcing
Speaker 1: a point with a story that people will relate to,
Speaker 1: or if you can when it's you know, appropriate a
Speaker 1: little self deprecation or a little humor or.
Speaker 2: You know, how do you as a coach or mentor
Speaker 2: or how would you guide someone to figure that out?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: Because there's so much and I've been a bit I'm
Speaker 2: not one to go and do courses or be exposed
Speaker 2: to things if I because I feel like there's a
Speaker 2: lot of cookie cut of stuff and I really want
Speaker 2: to keep remain the I want the essence of me
Speaker 2: to stay as it is, and I just want to
Speaker 2: develop that. Maybe that's a good thing, maybe it's not.
Speaker 2: I'm not sure, but I picture a lot of people
Speaker 2: going into structured environments to learn the way that someone teaches.
Speaker 2: How do you guide someone to know what actually because
Speaker 2: it's terrifying no matter what. So you're going to be
Speaker 2: uncomfortable and probably if not shit at it, then at
Speaker 2: least feel like you're shit at it no matter what.
Speaker 2: So in the middle of that feeling, how do you know, actually,
Speaker 2: this isn't really the right structure for me. I'd be
Speaker 2: better with a lot more scripting and planning, or I'd
Speaker 2: be better with completely off the cuff.
Speaker 1: So there's no three step five step plan. But it's
Speaker 1: a little bit like if you go to the doctor
Speaker 1: and she will say to you, all right, tell me
Speaker 1: about you know, she'll go, have you had do you
Speaker 1: have high blood pressure? Do they do a whole bit,
Speaker 1: you know, and then they go, so tell me what's
Speaker 1: going on right now? What are your symptoms, what are
Speaker 1: your feeling, tell me, you know. So with me, I
Speaker 1: try to find out, you know, if it's someone like you,
Speaker 1: I already know you, but if it's someone I don't know,
Speaker 1: I try to get a sense of their personality and
Speaker 1: the way they communicate, and whether or not they're high
Speaker 1: or low anxiety, whether or not they're you know, type
Speaker 1: A crossing the T dotting the ie, pushing the toilet
Speaker 1: before the wee'ze finished, fucking come on, you know, pushing
Speaker 1: the button, I should say, you know, I try to
Speaker 1: get a sense of who and how they are, and
Speaker 1: then with them collaboratively figure out something that might best
Speaker 1: suit their style, their personality and their needs. Right. So,
Speaker 1: but it's like, how do you become? I know we
Speaker 1: say this too much, but you know, I think sometimes
Speaker 1: we need to hear the same thing a hundred times
Speaker 1: before it gets embedded in our DNA, Like, how do
Speaker 1: you become a black belt? Oh? Will you become a
Speaker 1: white belt? First? And where you start is I'm not
Speaker 1: very good, but that's okay, that's because you're brand new
Speaker 1: at it. So I'm going to start with a plan.
Speaker 1: I'm going to get in front of any audience and
Speaker 1: I'm going to start, and there'll be things that I
Speaker 1: do terribly and things that aren't bad, and maybe one
Speaker 1: or two things that fucking kill right. But in the
Speaker 1: middle of all of that, I'm going to walk away
Speaker 1: and then I'm going to deconstruct what happened. I'm going
Speaker 1: to do a stock take, and I'm going to go, Okay,
Speaker 1: this is what I learned. Next time, you're going to
Speaker 1: put that learning on top of what you already had,
Speaker 1: so instead of it being a one out of ten,
Speaker 1: it might be a one point five. And now you
Speaker 1: build on that and then over time you develop understanding, awareness, skill, perception,
Speaker 1: you know. But that's but there are some people who
Speaker 1: what is really good for them, especially early days, is
Speaker 1: more structure, more organization. Okay. It's like I helped someone
Speaker 1: recently who was terrified and they had to do a
Speaker 1: fifty minute session, and I said, what about this? What
Speaker 1: about ten slides? Okay, not one hundred slides, ten slides,
Speaker 1: A bit of an intro, a bit of an outro,
Speaker 1: but that gives you around five minutes per slide. And
Speaker 1: on each slide you might have two or three dot
Speaker 1: points and if you talk let's say three, what does
Speaker 1: that give us nearly two minutes per dot point. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden because they had structure, and
Speaker 1: then there was that word up on the screen to
Speaker 1: trigger them, remind them, prompt them much more calm and
Speaker 1: over time, what will happen is the ten slide person
Speaker 1: will become a five slide person, and then they'll become
Speaker 1: a three slide person, and then they might become a
Speaker 1: zero slide person, or it depends. It's like if you're
Speaker 1: doing something which is more you know, like every time
Speaker 1: I do an academic presentation at Monash where I have
Speaker 1: to present my research, all of it, all of it
Speaker 1: is on slides, and all of it is in a
Speaker 1: certain way and formula because freestyle, hey, let's tell a
Speaker 1: story and be hilarious, Craig Harper is not appropriate for
Speaker 1: that environment or that particular role. So when I stand
Speaker 1: in front of an academ an academic board and I
Speaker 1: present my research, they don't they give zero fucks about
Speaker 1: whether or not I'm likable, funny, hilarious, great storyteller, how
Speaker 1: much experience I've got, whether or I've written seven books
Speaker 1: or no, that like, none of that matters at all,
Speaker 1: and it shouldn't matter at all, it doesn't matter. It
Speaker 1: doesn't matter if you're sixty, it doesn't matter if you're
Speaker 1: twenty three. All that matters is you are a PhD
Speaker 1: student at Monash. What is your research? What are you doing?
Speaker 1: What are your findings? What are you doing with it?
Speaker 1: Why does the world need this? Show us the next slide,
Speaker 1: show us the comparative data. All right, we're going to
Speaker 1: pass you or fail you. Fuck off. Cool, And that's
Speaker 1: the protocol. And so in that habitat, I'd be what
Speaker 1: I need to be to get through that. And again,
Speaker 1: so this is why, you know, if I'm talking to
Speaker 1: some year ten students, which I don't do often but
Speaker 1: I probably do once or twice a year, year ten,
Speaker 1: eleven or twelve, the way that I would go in
Speaker 1: Obviously I can't swear. Obviously I need to be quite
Speaker 1: mindful of my style and my language and my stories,
Speaker 1: of course, and I go and do that. Like as
Speaker 1: we're recording this, it's Friday morning. Next Wednesday, I'm going
Speaker 1: to do a gig for fern Wood and is going
Speaker 1: to be me and one hundred and fifty ladies in
Speaker 1: a room that could be fucking mayhem, No dick jokes,
Speaker 1: No Dick jokes no in you know, it's like, of course,
Speaker 1: of course, So I go okay, and I'm not I'm
Speaker 1: not being I'm not compromising who I am. I'm just
Speaker 1: being aware and mindful and thoughtful and sharing hopefully some
Speaker 1: kind of social and emotional intelligence in the context of
Speaker 1: where I am and how I need to be to
Speaker 1: do that job. Well. Right, So this is why there
Speaker 1: is no fucking three step plan. Who are you talking to?
Speaker 1: How long are you talking for? What's the setting? Is
Speaker 1: it a construction site or is it a group of
Speaker 1: surgeons at the Cumberland in Lawn that I've done. Is
Speaker 1: it blokes in prison? Is it Queensland rail in a
Speaker 1: fancy schmancy room like I did yesterday? Is it Victoria
Speaker 1: Police and an off site venue like I did on Wednesday?
Speaker 1: Is it? What is it? And so? But there are
Speaker 1: things that you can take in, you know, preparation is
Speaker 1: you and I are not big preppers. You're a bit
Speaker 1: of a study for the exam the night before kind
Speaker 1: of girl. We know that. What is that about?
Speaker 2: I don't know, but it is. It is so deeply
Speaker 2: hardwired that it feels like the part of my brain
Speaker 2: that controls my decisions overrides me. I can put time,
Speaker 2: I can block times out and ride it in and
Speaker 2: go that you have to work, do you have to
Speaker 2: do this now? And there's just and meant, there's just
Speaker 2: a block it. There's just outright refusal. It's like having
Speaker 2: a child that just goes no, no, no. And then
Speaker 2: the worst thing is the day before getting the zone,
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, yeah, that's it, the ideas calm, it
Speaker 2: all flows, and then I'm like, amazing, I wish I
Speaker 2: had two weeks to really embed this. Look, you're going
Speaker 2: to really like just go over it and over it
Speaker 2: for the next two weeks.
Speaker 1: But it's tomorrow, I think too. One of the things
Speaker 1: that we haven't spoken about is, you know, the more
Speaker 1: that you do and the more that depending on you
Speaker 1: know who you are and what you but the more
Speaker 1: that you're prepped, the more that you're ready, the more
Speaker 1: that you're organized, and the more experience or the more
Speaker 1: runs you have on the board, the more calm you
Speaker 1: are when you stand in front group. Now, if you
Speaker 1: can stand in front of a group and be you know,
Speaker 1: ready to go, pumped, excited, but also calm, then you
Speaker 1: can deliver.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, One thing that I recognize has been really
Speaker 2: helpful for me over time is just recognizing that I got.
Speaker 2: I developed the skill of commanding the room in the
Speaker 2: boxing gym, taking classes and running workshops in a fitness context.
Speaker 2: And I think of that. I say to if people
Speaker 2: are really nervous and they're not used to speaking to
Speaker 2: groups or multiple people, make a Facebook group, get a
Speaker 2: bunch of friends, and go, hey, once a month, I'm
Speaker 2: going to organize a fun activity. Take them to do
Speaker 2: the bloody thousand steps or go or do something. But
Speaker 2: just do it as a leader and be the facilitator
Speaker 2: of that social thing. It's just the first step of
Speaker 2: starting to speak with authority and command things and be
Speaker 2: listened to and stand up. And it sounds like a
Speaker 2: tiny thing, but for some of us that can make
Speaker 2: you feel sick, be like, I don't want to be
Speaker 2: that person.
Speaker 1: Well, one person who springs to mind for me that
Speaker 1: did exactly that, and it catapulted her to some bigger
Speaker 1: and better things. Was that lady the Gray Area drinking expert.
Speaker 1: Is it Sarah Raubatch russ Batch Rusba Russbatch Russbatch. Sorry Sarah,
Speaker 1: but she started off with you know, like she was
Speaker 1: a I guess you know what she calls and what
Speaker 1: other people call gray area drinking, so not really in
Speaker 1: our colic, but still kind of problematic alcohol consumption. And
Speaker 1: so she started a Facebook page and started to because
Speaker 1: you know, and then it ended up where now she
Speaker 1: she she's a speaker. Now she's got thousands of people
Speaker 1: that follow her. She's a facilitator, she's a leader. She's
Speaker 1: written a book, hasn't.
Speaker 2: She Yeah, yeah, yeah, she's written Beyond Shoes.
Speaker 1: Yeah she's been in that's right, great title, you know.
Speaker 1: And she just started literally doing what you said, which
Speaker 1: is just a Facebook thing. And I wonder if there's
Speaker 1: people like me and maybe we can support each other
Speaker 1: and maybe I can kind of open the door and
Speaker 1: lead this. But maybe we could, you know. And that's
Speaker 1: the thing. You can't get good at what you won't do.
Speaker 1: You can't master what you're avoiding. And what you said
Speaker 1: is a really good idea. Is it's just to yeah,
Speaker 1: just to organize something where you're the organizer and you're
Speaker 1: out the front and going, hey, this is what we're doing.
Speaker 2: And what tends to happen is people eventually someone will
Speaker 2: communicate with you on that level that you identify and go, oh,
Speaker 2: I'm seeing in this moment as a leader or someone
Speaker 2: with answers or I'm asked for something, and that starts
Speaker 2: to become an identity, because the worst thing is we
Speaker 2: just think I'm not the person. Like my biggest fear
Speaker 2: of speaking in front of you was, you know, since
Speaker 2: twenty fifteen or sixteen, when I first started stalking away
Speaker 2: and going this dude's I'm gonna get a bit of
Speaker 2: this crag up and rubbing off on me because he
Speaker 2: does cool shit and I like his style. You were
Speaker 2: the mentor, and then to speak in front of you,
Speaker 2: it was terrifying. So it's terrifying thing. Ever, I was like,
Speaker 2: I'm good speaking to hundreds of people elsewhere in business,
Speaker 2: networking and all of the things, but Craig carp is
Speaker 2: going to be in the room and that was.
Speaker 1: Just Sunday everyone, and she did a really you actually
Speaker 1: really did a good job. You actually did a really
Speaker 1: good job, and I don't I'm pretty sure you were
Speaker 1: pretty comfortable and confident. But if not, you're the best
Speaker 1: actor in the world, because you know, you just get
Speaker 1: up there. You've got good energy, you're confident, you're funny,
Speaker 1: you're a good storyteller. You know, like I said, you
Speaker 1: for the stage of your career in terms of you know, time,
Speaker 1: you're definitely better than I was, definitely better. At the
Speaker 1: same time, your development is quicker than mine. All right,
Speaker 1: So I'm going to share one more tip and then
Speaker 1: you're going to share one tip and we're going to
Speaker 1: wrap it up. So I don't know if this is
Speaker 1: can you see that? Oh yeah, yep, right, so you've
Speaker 1: seen that before. I just held up an a four
Speaker 1: page to tip everyone and I So yesterday I did
Speaker 1: like I said, I did it two our workshop interact.
Speaker 1: It was kind of talk workshop that was interactive. And
Speaker 1: what I do is I I don't do you know,
Speaker 1: I don't do PowerPoint. I don't do all that stuff,
Speaker 1: which is not say you shouldn't, it's just say I don't.
Speaker 1: I tend to write a lot on the whiteboard. I
Speaker 1: walk in, I literally will ask the group a question
Speaker 1: to get a sense of where the group is at.
Speaker 1: And as I've said, like, what is really important is
Speaker 1: that as soon as you can, you build rapport and
Speaker 1: connection with the group. So don't ask a question that
Speaker 1: that is unlikely that you'll get some kind of response.
Speaker 1: So by example, you know, don't walk in and go, oh,
Speaker 1: how's the weather today. People are just people are not
Speaker 1: going to go oh yeah, especially when you've got a
Speaker 1: room full of people who don't know you and potentially
Speaker 1: don't know each other. So you don't ask a question
Speaker 1: that requires them to talk, because often they don't want
Speaker 1: to talk in front of the group, and while the
Speaker 1: question might resonate, they're not going to embarrass themselves potentially
Speaker 1: and be the one that talks. So I would say
Speaker 1: something like, when I'm talking about what's it like being
Speaker 1: around me, I'd say, all right, put wrap your hand.
Speaker 1: If you've heard your voice on audio tape, on an
Speaker 1: audio recording, and then everyone's heard it, so all the
Speaker 1: hands go up, and they're okay because the other hands
Speaker 1: are going up and they don't have to talk, and
Speaker 1: everyone kind of goes, oh god, yeah, yeah, they put
Speaker 1: up their hand, and then I say, put your hand down. Now,
Speaker 1: put your hand back up if you think you sound
Speaker 1: shit right, And everyone laughs because everyone thinks their own
Speaker 1: voice sounds shit on recording. And now all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: I've had hands go up the whole room twice, and
Speaker 1: people are laughing at themselves. And then they're like, oh yeah,
Speaker 1: my voice is fucking hot, and all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: there's laughter, there's connection, the tension is broken, and there's
Speaker 1: a different energy in the room. With two simple questions,
Speaker 1: right so, or it might be that famous Craig Harper
Speaker 1: question put up your hand. If you're an overthinker, rite
Speaker 1: that one and everyone goes oh, they roll their eyes,
Speaker 1: they put up the fucking hell I overthink everything. How's
Speaker 1: that working out for you? Hahaha? And all that. Right,
Speaker 1: So it's doing something in the first minute or two
Speaker 1: that you know people will interact with or respond to,
Speaker 1: but be very Sometimes I see people getting up and
Speaker 1: they're very nervous and they ask a bad question and
Speaker 1: it takes the energy from not that great to terrible.
Speaker 1: So the question that you ask or your opener, and
Speaker 1: you don't have to be a stand up comic. So
Speaker 1: the bit of the a four bit of paper that
Speaker 1: I just showed tip, which I might post somewhere, is essentially,
Speaker 1: let me see, I would say about forty dot points
Speaker 1: on a page, and each one of the dot points,
Speaker 1: so I'll read out a few that I have written down. Awareness.
Speaker 1: That's a point motivation, success, metacognition, purpose, I might put
Speaker 1: on my glasses so I can read values, solution, focus,
Speaker 1: identity that you experience, courage, teachability, subjective reality. So I
Speaker 1: have all of these, each one of those things, each
Speaker 1: one of those words or those prompts, I can talk
Speaker 1: about for at least twenty or thirty minutes, so I
Speaker 1: can open the subjective reality door and go through that
Speaker 1: and we won't come back for another half hour. Right,
Speaker 1: So sometimes rather than having because this is what will
Speaker 1: happen if you are in front of an audience and
Speaker 1: you are nervous, and you've got pages of notes in
Speaker 1: front of you that in the moment, you actually can't
Speaker 1: read them because you can't look that down that long
Speaker 1: and look away from the audience because the audience are
Speaker 1: all looking at you. Now, if you're not looking at
Speaker 1: them and you're reading notes, you look incompetent, and your
Speaker 1: anxiety will go through the roof. So if you're not
Speaker 1: using PowerPoint, just have some single words. I have them
Speaker 1: in really big letters, like I have twenty font and
Speaker 1: I highlight them in different colors so each of those
Speaker 1: stands out so I can just look down and I
Speaker 1: can go self awareness. Okay, let's talk about that, let's
Speaker 1: talk about what it's like being around you, Let's talk
Speaker 1: about your understanding of yourself and so on. So that's
Speaker 1: my last tip. What's your last tip for everyone who's
Speaker 1: thinking about kicking off the speaking, if not career, just
Speaker 1: doing some public speaking.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, first, I just want to say that watching
Speaker 2: you after all these years again on Sunday, watching you
Speaker 2: put that together just so brilliant and it was just
Speaker 2: like you are in your you're at your best when
Speaker 2: you're in front of a room. But I just you know,
Speaker 2: I've known you do that and you've explained it to
Speaker 2: me before. But again because I've had my experience now
Speaker 2: and I've watched you, and then to watch that flail,
Speaker 2: I was like, that's really clever. But that just comes
Speaker 2: with so many years. I couldn't have one hundred words
Speaker 2: on a page and fit that together, but the concept's amazing.
Speaker 2: I think for me, I like to my slides are
Speaker 2: really they're kind of a chance to make sure that
Speaker 2: my personality is in front of people. So I like
Speaker 2: them to be a bit cheeky, a bit funny, and
Speaker 2: I like to open with something a bit maybe something
Speaker 2: that gets people to laugh and it's a bit out there,
Speaker 2: and often it's a photo of me with a black
Speaker 2: eye if it fits the talk. And then the last slide,
Speaker 2: which I was really disappointed on Sunday, I didn't actually
Speaker 2: verbally pointed out like I usually do, but I've got
Speaker 2: my cat's ass and it says the end, and it's
Speaker 2: got my cat'st of me with selfie with my cat's
Speaker 2: bum on the slide. You probably didn't notice that, but
Speaker 2: there's a photo of me and my dog on one
Speaker 2: side smiling and the cat's ass on the other. But
Speaker 2: on those slides, just I like each point to be
Speaker 2: so that it just becomes a part of the person.
Speaker 2: It really shows my personality and it gives and it's
Speaker 2: a chance for people. Just has a word prompt and
Speaker 2: maybe an elaboration on the prompt if people want to
Speaker 2: take a photo, So if I can elaborate with a
Speaker 2: short sentence or statement on that, so that it so
Speaker 2: I know people are taking those messages that I'm talking
Speaker 2: about the concepts. But I never have things that I'm
Speaker 2: reading word for word like.
Speaker 1: That perfect good advice. Look at you the students becoming
Speaker 1: the teacher. All right, if people want to book you, hey,
Speaker 1: fuck I didn't think of this. How do people how
Speaker 1: do people get Tiffany and Cook to come and talk
Speaker 1: to their team?
Speaker 2: If cook dot com is my website where you'll be
Speaker 2: able to find my details, shoot me an email or
Speaker 2: roam around Ellwood for long enough you'll see me walk
Speaker 2: on the dog.
Speaker 1: Still ten dollars a presentation.
Speaker 2: Or ten to fifty. Now I've put it up ten
Speaker 2: to fifty, So yeah, yeah, I'm high flying Harps. Thank you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, look at you go. And if you want Fatty
Speaker 1: Harps Jumbo to come and talk to.
Speaker 2: Your team, you better start saving your money and maybe
Speaker 2: harvest your kidney.
Speaker 1: Go to craigharper dot net and we appreciate you. Hope
Speaker 1: you got something out of that. Love your collective Gutz's
Speaker 1: thanks team, Bye,