WEBVTT - The Trial: Erin's denials

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<v Speaker 1>Did you intend to kill or cause really serious injury

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<v Speaker 1>to Donald Patterson by serving that meal?

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<v Speaker 2>No? I didn't.

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<v Speaker 1>Did you intend to harm him in any way?

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<v Speaker 2>No?

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<v Speaker 1>Did you intend to kill or cause really serious injury

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<v Speaker 1>to Gail Patterson by serving that meal? No? Did you

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<v Speaker 1>intend to cause her any harm at all? No? Did

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<v Speaker 1>you intend to kill or cause really serious injury to

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<v Speaker 1>Heather Wilkinson by serving that meal?

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<v Speaker 2>No? I didn't.

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<v Speaker 1>And did you intend to cause her any harm at all?

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<v Speaker 2>No?

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<v Speaker 1>And did you intend to kill Ian Wilkinson by serving

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<v Speaker 1>that meal? No?

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't.

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<v Speaker 1>Did you intend to cause him any harm at all? No?

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't.

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<v Speaker 3>There were some emphatic denials from Aaron Patterson in court today.

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<v Speaker 3>As her defense barrister Colin Mandy brought her three days

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<v Speaker 3>of evidence in chief to an end. But it wasn't

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<v Speaker 3>the end of her time on the stand, because Crown

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<v Speaker 3>Prosecutor Nannette Rodgers had our own set of questions for

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<v Speaker 3>the woman accused of triple murder.

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<v Speaker 4>I suggest that you deliberately used foraged mushrooms in the

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<v Speaker 4>beef Wellington that you'd serve to your guests on Saturday,

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<v Speaker 4>the twenty ninth of July.

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<v Speaker 2>No, that's not true.

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<v Speaker 4>I also suggest to you that those foraged mushrooms were

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<v Speaker 4>death cap mushrooms.

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't deliberately put death cap mushrooms in the meal.

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<v Speaker 3>It was a day dominated by the prosecution's cross examination

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<v Speaker 3>of Erin, and we'll break it down in this episode.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm Brooke Greebert Craig, and this is the Mushroom Cook.

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<v Speaker 3>We just finished day twenty six of Aaron Patterson's murder trial,

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<v Speaker 3>and court reporter Laura Passella joins me in our makeshift

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<v Speaker 3>podcast studio.

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<v Speaker 5>Let's get this episode underway.

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<v Speaker 3>As we mentioned at the start of the episode, today

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<v Speaker 3>the jury mostly heard the prosecutions cross examination of Aaron,

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<v Speaker 3>and there was a lot of rapid fire questions from

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<v Speaker 3>doctor Rogers.

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<v Speaker 5>Yes it was, mister Mandy. Didn't take very long today

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<v Speaker 5>to finish Erin's evidence in chief, so by eleven thirty

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<v Speaker 5>doctor Rogers had risen to her feet and asked Erin

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<v Speaker 5>her first question.

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<v Speaker 3>Here's an exchange between Aaron and doctor Rogers from today

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<v Speaker 3>in court, voiced by actors.

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<v Speaker 4>So to sum up in relation to your so called

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<v Speaker 4>cancer diagnosis, your claim to various people that you had

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<v Speaker 4>been diagnosed with cancer before the lunch was deliberately false.

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<v Speaker 4>Yes or no?

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't make that claim.

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<v Speaker 4>You told this lie. I suggest as part of your

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<v Speaker 4>efforts to get the lunch guests and Simon to attend

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<v Speaker 4>your lunch correct or incorrect? Incorrect, And I suggest to

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<v Speaker 4>explain why the children were not present correct or incorrect?

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<v Speaker 2>Incorrect.

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<v Speaker 4>You knew you didn't have cancer, however, correct, that's true,

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<v Speaker 4>but you needed, I suggest, to appear to have a

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<v Speaker 4>good reason to invite your guests to lie lunch at

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<v Speaker 4>your house, because it was so out of the ordinary

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<v Speaker 4>for you to do this. Agree or disagree?

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<v Speaker 2>Disagree?

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<v Speaker 4>Do you say that it was ordinary for you to

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<v Speaker 4>have people over to your house for lunch.

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<v Speaker 2>No, it wasn't ordinary, and it.

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<v Speaker 4>Certainly wasn't ordinary to invite Ian and Heather, was it.

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<v Speaker 2>That's true. They hadn't been for lunch at my house before.

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<v Speaker 4>I suggest that you never thought you would have to

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<v Speaker 4>account for this lie about having cancer because you thought

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<v Speaker 4>that the lunch guests would die.

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<v Speaker 2>That's not true, and.

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<v Speaker 4>Your lie would never be found out. Correct or incorrect,

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<v Speaker 4>That's not true.

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<v Speaker 5>Doctor Rogers reminded the court of Ian Wilkinson's evidence from

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<v Speaker 5>the second week of the trial where he said that

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<v Speaker 5>Aaron had announced at the lunch that she had cancer

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<v Speaker 5>and that she had undergone a diagnostic test that showed

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<v Speaker 5>a tumor. But Erin told the court today that she

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<v Speaker 5>did not make those statements at the table. She did agree, though,

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<v Speaker 5>that she wanted the guest to believe she would be

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<v Speaker 5>having treatment for cancer, but she denied ever telling them

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<v Speaker 5>that she had a diagnosis. Erin admitted yesterday in her

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<v Speaker 5>evidence in chief that she misled the guests when she

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<v Speaker 5>told them she might need upcoming treatment to hide the

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<v Speaker 5>fact that she was planning to have gastric bypass surgery

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<v Speaker 5>due to the body image issues she had developed over

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<v Speaker 5>her life. She explained that she misled them because she

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<v Speaker 5>was too ashamed to tell her guests she was planning

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<v Speaker 5>to have that surgery.

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<v Speaker 3>Let's move on. Aaron was asked many questions today about mushrooms,

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<v Speaker 3>including whether she saw a post on citizen website I

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<v Speaker 3>Naturalists and this post was about death cap mushrooms cited

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<v Speaker 3>in Locke. Here's her exchange with doctor Rogers.

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<v Speaker 4>I suggest that you saw Christine McKenzie's post that she

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<v Speaker 4>posted on I Naturalists on eighteenth of April twenty twenty

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<v Speaker 4>three about death cap mushrooms at Locke. Do you agree

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<v Speaker 4>or disagree?

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<v Speaker 2>I disagree.

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<v Speaker 4>I suggest that you then went to Locke on the

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<v Speaker 4>twenty eighth of April twenty five, twenty three. Do you

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<v Speaker 4>agree or disagree?

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know if I did go to lock that

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<v Speaker 2>day or not.

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<v Speaker 4>I'm going to suggest that you went to lock on

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<v Speaker 4>that day to find death cap mushrooms. Agree or disagree?

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<v Speaker 2>Disagree.

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<v Speaker 3>The jury were then shown an image of yellow tinged

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<v Speaker 3>mushrooms laid out on a dehydrator tray on a set

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<v Speaker 3>of electronic scales.

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<v Speaker 4>These mushrooms in image one of Exhibit eighteen are the

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<v Speaker 4>death cap mushrooms that you found at lock on twenty

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<v Speaker 4>eighth of April twenty three. Agree or disagree?

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<v Speaker 2>Disagree?

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<v Speaker 4>I suggest that you were weighing these mushrooms, these death

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<v Speaker 4>cap mushrooms, so that you could calculate the weight required

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<v Speaker 4>for the administration of a fatal dose for one person

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<v Speaker 4>agree or disagree, disagree, and the weight required for five

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<v Speaker 4>fatal doses for five people. Agree or disagree disagree.

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<v Speaker 5>Eron told the jury yesterday that she made six beef

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<v Speaker 5>wellingtons and put one in the fridge when she was

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<v Speaker 5>plating up today, Doctor Rogers asked her whether she intended

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<v Speaker 5>to serve one of those six beef Wellingtons to Simon

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<v Speaker 5>if he had turned up to the lunch. She replied

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<v Speaker 5>that if he had come, she would have given him

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<v Speaker 5>a beef Wellington too, but she again denied deliberately putting

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<v Speaker 5>death cat mushrooms in any of the beef Wellington's. On

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<v Speaker 5>the topic of Simon, doctor Rogers also took Erin to

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<v Speaker 5>some of his testimony, where he said that Erin had

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<v Speaker 5>told him she had done a blind taste test with

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<v Speaker 5>their daughter by hiding dried mushrooms in muffins to see

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<v Speaker 5>which one she would like more. Eron told the court

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<v Speaker 5>today that it was true that she was putting dried

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<v Speaker 5>mushrooms in her children's food, including spaghetti, lasagna, stew, and brownies,

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<v Speaker 5>and she explained that she was trying to get extra

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<v Speaker 5>vegetables into her children's bodies. Doctor Rogers suggested that she

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<v Speaker 5>was actually trying to see if she could successfully hide

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<v Speaker 5>mushrooms in food generally, but Erin said it was only

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<v Speaker 5>in really to her children's food.

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<v Speaker 3>Doctor Rogers also questioned Erin about the dehydrator she bought

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<v Speaker 3>from a store in lean Gatha about twelve seventeen pm

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<v Speaker 3>on April twenty eight. Erin admitted that she dumped this

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<v Speaker 3>dehydrator at the Kunwarra tip four days after the lunch

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<v Speaker 3>on August two. Here's what was set in court.

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<v Speaker 4>And you agree that they were your fingerprints found on

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<v Speaker 4>your dehydrator.

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<v Speaker 2>Correct.

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<v Speaker 4>You took the dehydrator to the transfer station because you

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<v Speaker 4>had been using it to dehydrate mushrooms, hadn't you, Yes,

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<v Speaker 4>and not just any old mushrooms, death cap mushrooms in fact. Correct.

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't know that i'd done that, and you knew.

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<v Speaker 4>That they were death cap mushrooms that you had been dehydrating. Correct.

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<v Speaker 2>No, I didn't know that, and you were very keen.

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<v Speaker 4>To dispose of any evidence which might connect you with

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<v Speaker 4>the possession of death cap mushrooms.

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<v Speaker 2>No, I didn't know they'd been in it.

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<v Speaker 4>That's why you rushed out the day after your release

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<v Speaker 4>from Monash to get rid of the evidence. Correct. No,

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<v Speaker 4>you lied to police about never owning a dehydrator because

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<v Speaker 4>you knew you had used the dehydrator to prepare deathcat

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<v Speaker 4>mushrooms to include in the lunch. No, I didn't know

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<v Speaker 4>that you lied because you knew if you told the

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<v Speaker 4>police the truth, it would implicate you in the deliberate

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<v Speaker 4>poisoning of your four lunch guests. Correct.

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<v Speaker 2>No, no, it's not true.

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<v Speaker 5>Aaron told the jury yesterday about a conversation she had

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<v Speaker 5>with Simon while they were at Monash Medical Center on

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<v Speaker 5>August one. She said that he accused her of poisoning

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<v Speaker 5>his parents using the dehydrator. When she was asked to

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<v Speaker 5>explain why she dumped the dehydrator, she said after that

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<v Speaker 5>exchange with Simon, she was scared about the conversations that

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<v Speaker 5>might flow with people from child protection, and she was

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<v Speaker 5>scared that authorities would blame her for making everyone sick. Later,

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<v Speaker 5>during the proceedings today, doctor Rogers asked Aaron about messages

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<v Speaker 5>she sent her online friends in December twenty twenty two

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<v Speaker 5>about Don's response to an ongoing child's support dispute with Simon.

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<v Speaker 5>In the messages to her friends, Erin said that Don

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<v Speaker 5>couldn't adjudicate because he didn't know both sides, and Simon

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<v Speaker 5>wouldn't give his side. She said that Don told her

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<v Speaker 5>that all he could ask is that Simon and her

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<v Speaker 5>get together and pray for the children. Before she then

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<v Speaker 5>said this family, I swear to foking God in this message.

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<v Speaker 5>There were three emojis that Aaron sent, one after the

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<v Speaker 5>reference to Simon not giving his side, and two after

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<v Speaker 5>the reference to praying for their children. These messages were

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<v Speaker 5>shown to the court today on screens, but they were

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<v Speaker 5>not screenshots of the messages themselves, but rather extracts. I

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<v Speaker 5>don't think any of us foresaw there would be in

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<v Speaker 5>exchange about emojis in this trial, but that's what took

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<v Speaker 5>place today. Here's what was said.

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<v Speaker 4>I suggest to you that these are eye roll emojis,

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<v Speaker 4>but you disagree with that.

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<v Speaker 2>I think there's a better eye roll emoji than these

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<v Speaker 2>that actually makes it clear that eyes are rolling. I

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<v Speaker 2>can't see anything about eyes rolling in there.

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<v Speaker 4>By inserting these emojis, I suggested that you were mocking

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<v Speaker 4>their advice to you.

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<v Speaker 2>Correct, No, that's not true, and.

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<v Speaker 4>Part of your mockery was the religious components of their advice.

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<v Speaker 4>Do you agree?

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<v Speaker 2>No, I don't. I wasn't mocking. I was frustrated.

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<v Speaker 4>Even though these emojis are right next to the phrases

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<v Speaker 4>pray together and pray for the kids.

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<v Speaker 2>They are.

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<v Speaker 3>Doctor Rodgers will continue her cross examination of erin tomorrow, Laura.

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<v Speaker 3>The jurors actually found out more about the timeline of

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<v Speaker 3>the trial today, didn't they.

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<v Speaker 5>Yes, that's right, So we're nearly at the end of

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<v Speaker 5>the sixth week and at the beginning of the trial.

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<v Speaker 5>Just as Christopher Biale indicated to the jury that the

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<v Speaker 5>trial would only be about six weeks so today he

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<v Speaker 5>turned to the jurors to offer them an update. He

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<v Speaker 5>said that Erin would most likely continue giving evidence until

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<v Speaker 5>early next week, before legal discussions would be taking place

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<v Speaker 5>in the jury's absence. He then said that after that

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<v Speaker 5>there would be the closing addresses from both the prosecution

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<v Speaker 5>and the defense, which would likely bring them to the

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<v Speaker 5>end of next week. Then after that, he said, they

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<v Speaker 5>would be hearing from him directly when he delivers his

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<v Speaker 5>judge's charge or his instructions to the jury, and that

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<v Speaker 5>would also take a couple of days as well. Justice

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<v Speaker 5>Bale then said to them that the brute would then

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<v Speaker 5>go on the other foot because none of them could

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<v Speaker 5>tell him how long it would take them to deliberate

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<v Speaker 5>a verdict, but he said when that time came, they

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<v Speaker 5>should take all the time they need.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm sure the jurors appreciated getting that timeline. Just like

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<v Speaker 3>we did, and just like them, we'll be here for

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<v Speaker 3>the duration of the trial, bringing you all the latest

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<v Speaker 3>updates in the case. For now, head to the mushroomcook

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<v Speaker 3>dot com dot au for more