1 00:00:05,921 --> 00:00:07,281 Speaker 1: Apodja Production. 2 00:00:14,961 --> 00:00:19,561 Speaker 2: Welcome back everybody. We're now at episode seven where we're 3 00:00:19,681 --> 00:00:24,721 Speaker 2: going to take you with us to Brussels. Jonie's with me, 4 00:00:24,961 --> 00:00:28,561 Speaker 2: but we're a little bit distant today. She's down in 5 00:00:28,921 --> 00:00:33,720 Speaker 2: Victoria and coming into us life while I'm here in 6 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:36,041 Speaker 2: the studio in Brisbane. How are you going, Jony? 7 00:00:36,281 --> 00:00:36,681 Speaker 1: Good? 8 00:00:36,841 --> 00:00:41,681 Speaker 2: Good? Here we are and look, I remember Brussels so well. 9 00:00:41,721 --> 00:00:44,161 Speaker 2: It was such a big part of the trip for us, 10 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:47,040 Speaker 2: and we did so many things and we're in such 11 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:50,120 Speaker 2: a rush to try and fill in all the gaps 12 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:51,921 Speaker 2: that we needed to do while we were there. But 13 00:00:52,161 --> 00:00:55,200 Speaker 2: it began with us getting off the train we were 14 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:59,681 Speaker 2: coming in from Amsterdam. Yeah, this is pretty hard for us. 15 00:00:59,761 --> 00:01:01,481 Speaker 2: This is not easy. We're bouncing in and out of 16 00:01:01,521 --> 00:01:05,401 Speaker 2: countries every two days. We've got lack of sleep. Journey 17 00:01:05,441 --> 00:01:08,321 Speaker 2: hasn't been feeling well. She was really unwell, so she 18 00:01:08,481 --> 00:01:11,200 Speaker 2: ended up in bed all day yesterday and I went 19 00:01:11,241 --> 00:01:13,521 Speaker 2: out and did all of the coin dealers and the 20 00:01:13,521 --> 00:01:16,361 Speaker 2: flea market and everything that we had planned, which I'm 21 00:01:16,401 --> 00:01:18,321 Speaker 2: sure was pretty hard for you because you really wanted 22 00:01:18,321 --> 00:01:21,000 Speaker 2: to do that, and we'd had big discussions about how 23 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 2: we were going to manage that and I wasn't even 24 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 2: going to go in because we didn't want to talk 25 00:01:24,521 --> 00:01:27,000 Speaker 2: about the missing person side of things. We were just 26 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:29,041 Speaker 2: trying to focus on the coin dealing side of. 27 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 3: Things, getting accounts just. 28 00:01:30,761 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 1: For what it's worth. 29 00:01:31,521 --> 00:01:35,200 Speaker 2: You can't get that stuff at home, you know. Unless 30 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:37,640 Speaker 2: I'm walking in and talking to the actual coin dealers 31 00:01:37,681 --> 00:01:40,241 Speaker 2: here in Amsterdam. They won't answer you. They don't talk 32 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:41,961 Speaker 2: to women. For a start, that. 33 00:01:41,881 --> 00:01:44,560 Speaker 3: You've got, you know, fifty thousand euro worth of coin 34 00:01:45,041 --> 00:01:48,201 Speaker 3: that you want to sell from the Australia, they're not interested. 35 00:01:48,441 --> 00:01:50,041 Speaker 4: Yeah, so we needed to come. 36 00:01:49,881 --> 00:01:51,921 Speaker 1: Here in order to face them face to face. 37 00:01:52,441 --> 00:01:53,881 Speaker 4: No, no one else is going to do it. 38 00:01:53,921 --> 00:01:54,921 Speaker 3: No one else is doing it. 39 00:01:55,081 --> 00:01:58,600 Speaker 2: And people might question as to why that's important. And 40 00:01:58,921 --> 00:02:01,681 Speaker 2: the main focus of going to the coin dealers was 41 00:02:01,721 --> 00:02:04,641 Speaker 2: to see if they could confirm for us if we 42 00:02:04,681 --> 00:02:07,321 Speaker 2: didn't need them to tell us the details. We just 43 00:02:07,361 --> 00:02:10,241 Speaker 2: needed to know yes or no as to whether he 44 00:02:10,321 --> 00:02:12,801 Speaker 2: had a foreign bank account that he was trading with 45 00:02:12,801 --> 00:02:16,921 Speaker 2: with those people, because you know, my mum's money, will 46 00:02:16,921 --> 00:02:18,720 Speaker 2: know sh in their police report that the money was 47 00:02:18,761 --> 00:02:22,721 Speaker 2: transferred electronically, potentially to an overseas account to start a 48 00:02:22,761 --> 00:02:25,601 Speaker 2: new life with her new partner. So where is that 49 00:02:25,641 --> 00:02:28,921 Speaker 2: account and what was it about and who owned it 50 00:02:29,321 --> 00:02:31,761 Speaker 2: because it didn't certainly didn't go into her bank account. 51 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:34,400 Speaker 2: So if we can find that information, and you know, 52 00:02:34,761 --> 00:02:36,601 Speaker 2: you have to be here, it's boots on the ground. 53 00:02:37,201 --> 00:02:39,121 Speaker 2: You can't do this over the phone. You can't do 54 00:02:39,161 --> 00:02:41,961 Speaker 2: it over email. We have to physically come here. And 55 00:02:42,481 --> 00:02:45,281 Speaker 2: this is not fun. You know, it's Darcy's birthday today. 56 00:02:45,321 --> 00:02:46,921 Speaker 2: I should be at home hanging out with my twenty 57 00:02:47,001 --> 00:02:50,481 Speaker 2: year old and celebrating, having their birthday cake and going 58 00:02:50,481 --> 00:02:52,121 Speaker 2: out for dinner with the rest of my family. But 59 00:02:52,441 --> 00:02:54,800 Speaker 2: I'm here. It's going to be Jonie's birthday. You know 60 00:02:54,881 --> 00:02:57,800 Speaker 2: she would should be doing the same with Ethan and 61 00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:02,761 Speaker 2: her Chris. No problem, okay, thank you. How far how 62 00:03:02,761 --> 00:03:03,840 Speaker 2: far away is it do you think? 63 00:03:07,081 --> 00:03:11,641 Speaker 3: Okay, yes, okay, thank you. 64 00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:14,881 Speaker 2: It's going to be difficult with the suitcases, but anyway, 65 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:20,161 Speaker 2: give it a crack. When we got off, it seriously 66 00:03:20,201 --> 00:03:24,761 Speaker 2: felt like they were herding cattle. They literally had hundreds 67 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:28,361 Speaker 2: and hundreds and hundreds of people and pulling us all 68 00:03:28,401 --> 00:03:33,001 Speaker 2: into one narrow doorway where they had guards with guns 69 00:03:33,081 --> 00:03:35,481 Speaker 2: and all sorts of craziness. But the other thing that 70 00:03:35,521 --> 00:03:38,121 Speaker 2: stood out to me was there was no checks at 71 00:03:38,121 --> 00:03:40,561 Speaker 2: the border, so we were literally bouncing in and out 72 00:03:40,561 --> 00:03:44,041 Speaker 2: of the countries and no one was checking our passports, 73 00:03:44,121 --> 00:03:46,761 Speaker 2: no one was checking who we were. And it sort 74 00:03:46,761 --> 00:03:48,961 Speaker 2: of really sung home to me about how easy that 75 00:03:49,161 --> 00:03:51,761 Speaker 2: is to do over there. I mean, obviously in Australia 76 00:03:51,801 --> 00:03:54,401 Speaker 2: we can bounce from state to state and we don't 77 00:03:54,401 --> 00:03:57,401 Speaker 2: have border control checking our passports and things like that. 78 00:03:57,441 --> 00:04:00,961 Speaker 2: But I would have thought over in different countries that 79 00:04:01,081 --> 00:04:03,081 Speaker 2: might have been the case. But what do you think 80 00:04:03,081 --> 00:04:03,521 Speaker 2: about that. 81 00:04:04,481 --> 00:04:07,321 Speaker 1: It's just the absolute difficulty. Like if I think back 82 00:04:07,361 --> 00:04:10,641 Speaker 1: to nineteen ninety seven when your mum was planning her 83 00:04:10,681 --> 00:04:15,761 Speaker 1: overseas trip to move from the UK into Europe and 84 00:04:15,801 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 1: then from there, she was unless she actually phoned you 85 00:04:19,001 --> 00:04:22,001 Speaker 1: or told you or sent you a card with information 86 00:04:22,161 --> 00:04:25,880 Speaker 1: on it, she was literally able to just navigate her 87 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:29,961 Speaker 1: way around wherever she wanted to go to and frowing wherever. 88 00:04:30,401 --> 00:04:33,921 Speaker 1: And so to me, that in itself, does you know, 89 00:04:34,081 --> 00:04:38,241 Speaker 1: potentially pose risks if she's not communicating with you. You know, 90 00:04:38,281 --> 00:04:40,761 Speaker 1: when she said she's going to have a break, now 91 00:04:40,961 --> 00:04:43,681 Speaker 1: she's going to do her you know, do her thing 92 00:04:43,921 --> 00:04:47,041 Speaker 1: and not be communicating anywhere near as much. I think 93 00:04:47,081 --> 00:04:50,241 Speaker 1: that is very risky, isn't it if you if you're 94 00:04:50,281 --> 00:04:52,841 Speaker 1: not actually being checked as you're going in and out 95 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:54,241 Speaker 1: of the different country. 96 00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:56,521 Speaker 2: We just don't know where she was, and there was 97 00:04:56,601 --> 00:05:01,641 Speaker 2: literally no chance to even back then, there was no 98 00:05:01,761 --> 00:05:04,361 Speaker 2: chance to actually work out where she'd been. Like regardless 99 00:05:04,401 --> 00:05:07,721 Speaker 2: of the twenty six seven years it is now, it 100 00:05:07,761 --> 00:05:12,401 Speaker 2: makes no difference. Okay, so we've just arrived in Brussels, 101 00:05:13,521 --> 00:05:18,441 Speaker 2: early start, late train delayed by about an hour in total, 102 00:05:19,841 --> 00:05:22,601 Speaker 2: What a debarcle that was coming through trying to get 103 00:05:22,641 --> 00:05:25,440 Speaker 2: off the train, joy debacle, total debarkle. 104 00:05:25,801 --> 00:05:27,201 Speaker 3: It was an absolute funnel. 105 00:05:27,481 --> 00:05:29,801 Speaker 1: So you had how many people. 106 00:05:29,841 --> 00:05:33,080 Speaker 2: There, three hundred four hundred people trying to get through 107 00:05:33,161 --> 00:05:36,641 Speaker 2: and trying to get us in the single line, single line, 108 00:05:36,761 --> 00:05:38,720 Speaker 2: but for no reason, no checking your past. 109 00:05:38,801 --> 00:05:41,720 Speaker 3: Checking nothing, which we knew anyway because of the machine 110 00:05:41,721 --> 00:05:44,401 Speaker 3: and agreement. But it just kind of struck me as 111 00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:46,801 Speaker 3: I was standing there in that line that you know, 112 00:05:46,921 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 3: no one's checked anything. So realistically, that's he could have 113 00:05:51,001 --> 00:05:55,521 Speaker 3: just flown into as stand, Netherlands, jumped on a train 114 00:05:55,641 --> 00:05:59,961 Speaker 3: here and been into Belgium with no checks whatsoever. I mean, 115 00:06:00,241 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 3: he could have bought that to get under any name. 116 00:06:03,401 --> 00:06:05,681 Speaker 2: Yeah, because no one's checking. Oh no, it's going to 117 00:06:05,721 --> 00:06:07,641 Speaker 2: match your passports. You want to put your passport in. 118 00:06:07,761 --> 00:06:10,481 Speaker 3: Well, Ry Cooper said he had like literally a bag 119 00:06:10,521 --> 00:06:15,200 Speaker 3: full of sports. Yeah, so he just purchase takes one 120 00:06:15,201 --> 00:06:19,041 Speaker 3: out under another name. Even if he is bad from Belgium, 121 00:06:19,281 --> 00:06:21,761 Speaker 3: he could be in here easy, not a problem. 122 00:06:21,801 --> 00:06:22,921 Speaker 2: But who's actually checking? 123 00:06:23,601 --> 00:06:30,081 Speaker 3: So a very interesting triggering, i'd say, entry into his 124 00:06:30,681 --> 00:06:31,520 Speaker 3: home country. 125 00:06:31,961 --> 00:06:35,320 Speaker 2: We are ready to roll tomorrow afternoon. I'm actually really 126 00:06:35,361 --> 00:06:37,521 Speaker 2: looking forward to just going and seeing Glaine. 127 00:06:37,601 --> 00:06:40,721 Speaker 3: See how she's come up too, like after their whole yeah, 128 00:06:40,921 --> 00:06:42,601 Speaker 3: seeing in the inquest and everything. 129 00:06:42,801 --> 00:06:45,320 Speaker 2: She turned ninety in August. 130 00:06:45,801 --> 00:06:47,721 Speaker 3: It hasn't been a hard end of life to her 131 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:51,281 Speaker 3: thanks to allegedly ascertain someone. 132 00:06:52,641 --> 00:06:54,761 Speaker 2: So we're going there for aftening tea and then we'll 133 00:06:54,841 --> 00:06:57,241 Speaker 2: leave them while they set up because they're having a 134 00:06:57,440 --> 00:07:00,320 Speaker 2: piano concert which we've been invited to go to, so 135 00:07:00,361 --> 00:07:02,760 Speaker 2: it'll be nice just to meet them in person. And 136 00:07:02,961 --> 00:07:06,241 Speaker 2: Alexandra Piramurm is putting that on us, which is very kind. 137 00:07:06,401 --> 00:07:10,641 Speaker 3: So the Royal Library of Brussels, just remembering that andre 138 00:07:10,761 --> 00:07:14,041 Speaker 3: Plum's son in law worked here and also where the 139 00:07:14,081 --> 00:07:19,361 Speaker 3: coin cabinet is, which is where allegedly a certain person 140 00:07:19,441 --> 00:07:24,881 Speaker 3: would meet other people looking at how much their coins 141 00:07:24,881 --> 00:07:28,521 Speaker 3: were worth, and the history of coins, etc. So this 142 00:07:28,681 --> 00:07:32,121 Speaker 3: is quite a crucial little location for the whole story. 143 00:07:32,281 --> 00:07:35,321 Speaker 3: And just remembering Marian today, she's not lost in all 144 00:07:35,361 --> 00:07:40,161 Speaker 3: of this stuff, and hoping we get some evidence today 145 00:07:40,201 --> 00:07:42,521 Speaker 3: that we can use back in Australia. 146 00:07:42,641 --> 00:07:46,241 Speaker 2: Okay, So we ended up going to the KBR. That 147 00:07:46,401 --> 00:07:48,321 Speaker 2: was one of the main things we wanted to do 148 00:07:49,041 --> 00:07:51,481 Speaker 2: in Brussels. Do you want to tell everyone what that 149 00:07:51,561 --> 00:07:52,081 Speaker 2: stands for? 150 00:07:52,561 --> 00:07:54,921 Speaker 1: So the KBR, and I'm going to be looking down 151 00:07:54,961 --> 00:07:59,241 Speaker 1: as I say this. It's a contraction of two names 152 00:07:59,281 --> 00:08:06,641 Speaker 1: in two different languages, so it's said conincla BiblioTech and 153 00:08:06,881 --> 00:08:11,001 Speaker 1: BiblioTech Royale. So in the past a number of different 154 00:08:11,081 --> 00:08:14,161 Speaker 1: names have been used to denote it. So there was 155 00:08:14,241 --> 00:08:17,241 Speaker 1: sort of like a backwards and forwards about who was 156 00:08:17,321 --> 00:08:21,521 Speaker 1: going to have the control of the KBR between all 157 00:08:21,561 --> 00:08:24,761 Speaker 1: the different nationalities that were living in Belgium at the time. 158 00:08:25,641 --> 00:08:29,401 Speaker 1: They cleared it up by combining the Dutch and the French, 159 00:08:30,001 --> 00:08:33,761 Speaker 1: and so it's now called KBR, but it's basically the 160 00:08:33,881 --> 00:08:38,121 Speaker 1: Royal Library of Belgium, and as we know, we knew 161 00:08:38,121 --> 00:08:41,241 Speaker 1: of a couple of people that actually worked there that 162 00:08:41,601 --> 00:08:44,001 Speaker 1: formed part of your mum's story as well. 163 00:08:44,841 --> 00:08:49,801 Speaker 2: So what I learned going to the KBR was there 164 00:08:49,921 --> 00:08:53,801 Speaker 2: is a place there within it called the coin Cabinet, 165 00:08:54,481 --> 00:08:57,841 Speaker 2: and that spiked our interest, didn't it. 166 00:08:57,841 --> 00:09:03,241 Speaker 1: It did feature obviously within Rick Bloom's testimony. He did 167 00:09:03,521 --> 00:09:06,481 Speaker 1: state that he'd been there on a number of occasions, 168 00:09:07,281 --> 00:09:10,801 Speaker 1: and also with the Andre Flum story, so that is 169 00:09:10,881 --> 00:09:15,321 Speaker 1: where he said that he met Andre Flum's son in law, 170 00:09:15,721 --> 00:09:20,081 Speaker 1: Pierre du So. Pierre Drew worked at the library and 171 00:09:20,521 --> 00:09:23,161 Speaker 1: that's where he said he met him as well. So 172 00:09:23,721 --> 00:09:28,961 Speaker 1: the coin library, we have heard from various people unsubstantiated 173 00:09:29,081 --> 00:09:33,121 Speaker 1: information that Rick Bloom would sit outside the hallway of 174 00:09:33,321 --> 00:09:37,801 Speaker 1: the coin Cabinet and basically speak to people as they 175 00:09:38,321 --> 00:09:41,761 Speaker 1: came in and out with their collections with an interest 176 00:09:41,841 --> 00:09:47,401 Speaker 1: to selling or assessing or again very much unsubstantiated, but 177 00:09:47,721 --> 00:09:50,121 Speaker 1: that did come from a number of people they had 178 00:09:50,121 --> 00:09:50,921 Speaker 1: seen him do that. 179 00:09:51,401 --> 00:09:55,001 Speaker 2: And so the coin Cabinet itself is a public numismatic 180 00:09:55,281 --> 00:10:01,361 Speaker 2: collection established back in the eighteen hundreds, and that it 181 00:10:01,401 --> 00:10:05,641 Speaker 2: now holds coins and medals and is the department of 182 00:10:05,801 --> 00:10:10,161 Speaker 2: the Royal Library of Belgium. 183 00:10:10,201 --> 00:10:12,521 Speaker 3: We've got a booking for the reading room, just to 184 00:10:12,841 --> 00:10:14,881 Speaker 3: look at some material from Australia. 185 00:10:15,241 --> 00:10:18,481 Speaker 4: Yes, before the wedding room, you need to take. 186 00:10:18,281 --> 00:10:22,321 Speaker 5: One membership yes, yes, yes, one moment. 187 00:10:22,401 --> 00:10:27,321 Speaker 4: Yes, thank you, because that's all payments in eighteen years. 188 00:10:27,561 --> 00:10:29,441 Speaker 3: Ye have thought. 189 00:10:31,881 --> 00:10:33,161 Speaker 1: There's a two of us guy lead. 190 00:10:33,241 --> 00:10:37,881 Speaker 4: So do you need a sales idea as well? Yes, yeah, 191 00:10:39,201 --> 00:10:43,881 Speaker 4: I've got a case person. 192 00:10:44,441 --> 00:10:47,921 Speaker 2: One of the things we found was tricky when trying 193 00:10:47,961 --> 00:10:50,681 Speaker 2: to organize when we were going to go to certain 194 00:10:50,761 --> 00:10:55,961 Speaker 2: places was that whilst we were traveling, we obviously had 195 00:10:56,001 --> 00:11:00,801 Speaker 2: weekends in amongst the weeks, and that meant that we 196 00:11:00,921 --> 00:11:03,841 Speaker 2: had to really work out how long we were going 197 00:11:03,921 --> 00:11:07,881 Speaker 2: to be in each place during work hours. You know, 198 00:11:07,961 --> 00:11:11,481 Speaker 2: we had to make good use of our time and 199 00:11:11,681 --> 00:11:15,281 Speaker 2: therefore pick things that we could do on weekends like 200 00:11:15,401 --> 00:11:19,201 Speaker 2: flea markets, etc. Around other things that we needed to 201 00:11:19,281 --> 00:11:22,201 Speaker 2: do that were open only in business hours. Some things 202 00:11:22,361 --> 00:11:24,921 Speaker 2: like libraries, for example, are open on weekends, but some 203 00:11:25,001 --> 00:11:26,961 Speaker 2: of the people we wanted to speak to were only 204 00:11:27,001 --> 00:11:29,081 Speaker 2: working Monday to Friday. So we really had to do 205 00:11:29,121 --> 00:11:32,121 Speaker 2: the nitty gritty and make sure that we were making 206 00:11:32,161 --> 00:11:34,881 Speaker 2: the most of our time there. I also wanted to 207 00:11:34,961 --> 00:11:38,681 Speaker 2: say that what we were doing while we were there. 208 00:11:38,881 --> 00:11:42,441 Speaker 2: I guess became a little bit paranoid about posting where 209 00:11:42,481 --> 00:11:45,521 Speaker 2: we were at any given time, because I had it 210 00:11:45,601 --> 00:11:47,681 Speaker 2: in my head that I didn't really want people knowing 211 00:11:48,041 --> 00:11:51,001 Speaker 2: exactly where we were. So when we were posting home 212 00:11:51,441 --> 00:11:53,721 Speaker 2: or on socials to say, hey, we're in Amsterdam, we'd 213 00:11:53,721 --> 00:11:56,201 Speaker 2: already left Amsterdam. We were in Brussels at this point, 214 00:11:56,601 --> 00:11:59,561 Speaker 2: because we just didn't know. We had two chicks bouncing 215 00:11:59,641 --> 00:12:03,161 Speaker 2: in and out of countries again, just protecting ourselves and 216 00:12:03,241 --> 00:12:05,841 Speaker 2: making sure that no one really where we were at 217 00:12:05,841 --> 00:12:10,321 Speaker 2: any given time except our families. It's a very strange thing, 218 00:12:10,521 --> 00:12:12,841 Speaker 2: I guess, should be doing this type of investigation in 219 00:12:12,921 --> 00:12:16,681 Speaker 2: a foreign country, speaking different languages and places we've never 220 00:12:16,761 --> 00:12:20,321 Speaker 2: been before. We rock up to the library, We speak 221 00:12:20,321 --> 00:12:22,361 Speaker 2: to a lady at the front desk at KBR and 222 00:12:22,921 --> 00:12:24,641 Speaker 2: tell her why we're there. You know. 223 00:12:26,841 --> 00:12:27,561 Speaker 4: Who worked here? 224 00:12:33,241 --> 00:12:39,481 Speaker 1: Many many names, the same person, same person. 225 00:12:39,681 --> 00:12:40,721 Speaker 6: Uses many names. 226 00:12:41,201 --> 00:12:46,321 Speaker 2: Do you speak English, same same same person? Yes, yes, yes, 227 00:12:46,961 --> 00:12:51,161 Speaker 2: so this is him now he's from Belgium. 228 00:12:51,001 --> 00:12:52,641 Speaker 1: He's from torn. 229 00:12:54,681 --> 00:13:00,681 Speaker 3: Tall live That's why we're in Australia because we're going 230 00:13:00,761 --> 00:13:03,441 Speaker 3: to use look at some of your collections to try 231 00:13:03,521 --> 00:13:04,001 Speaker 3: to find. 232 00:13:03,841 --> 00:13:05,841 Speaker 1: More information on them. 233 00:13:06,441 --> 00:13:10,081 Speaker 2: Ask you around maybe other people know, yeah, and then 234 00:13:10,121 --> 00:13:14,801 Speaker 2: you can contact us here or you can contact. 235 00:13:14,641 --> 00:13:15,161 Speaker 1: Here as well. 236 00:13:15,521 --> 00:13:18,601 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, if you need if you find any information, 237 00:13:18,801 --> 00:13:23,361 Speaker 2: because there's like a lot of money as a reward 238 00:13:23,441 --> 00:13:26,121 Speaker 2: in Australia. There's half a million dollars up for reward 239 00:13:27,281 --> 00:13:29,041 Speaker 2: information a million euro. 240 00:13:29,921 --> 00:13:33,441 Speaker 1: We've always done our best to keep people's identity confidential. 241 00:13:33,881 --> 00:13:37,081 Speaker 1: It's been something that we've really prided ourselves on our 242 00:13:37,161 --> 00:13:39,961 Speaker 1: feel like, I think that with the amount of people 243 00:13:40,001 --> 00:13:42,761 Speaker 1: that have come forward to us that have really actually 244 00:13:42,921 --> 00:13:47,721 Speaker 1: trusted us to keep their information private and also their identity. 245 00:13:48,561 --> 00:13:52,281 Speaker 1: You'll just see that sometimes in this podcast people's names 246 00:13:52,401 --> 00:13:56,921 Speaker 1: will be bleaked out to disguise them and their identity. 247 00:13:58,001 --> 00:14:03,481 Speaker 1: Another important find Joanie made was a letter that a 248 00:14:03,561 --> 00:14:06,441 Speaker 1: lady by the name of Andre flow May had written 249 00:14:06,481 --> 00:14:09,241 Speaker 1: to the Queensland Governor, which was dated the twenty sixth 250 00:14:09,281 --> 00:14:13,161 Speaker 1: of July twenty ten. Now, Andre actually got up at 251 00:14:13,201 --> 00:14:16,601 Speaker 1: three am Portugal time in Spain to give evidence at 252 00:14:16,601 --> 00:14:20,121 Speaker 1: my mum's inquest in May twenty twenty three. In February 253 00:14:20,121 --> 00:14:24,481 Speaker 1: twenty twenty one. After learning the identity of Frederick Deheadavery 254 00:14:24,681 --> 00:14:27,001 Speaker 1: at that stage, I just went through all of the 255 00:14:27,161 --> 00:14:30,601 Speaker 1: archives around Australia and one thing that did ping was 256 00:14:30,841 --> 00:14:36,001 Speaker 1: a Frederick Deheadavvery in the Queensland archives. So there was 257 00:14:36,041 --> 00:14:38,561 Speaker 1: a letter in there that was sent to the Governor 258 00:14:38,601 --> 00:14:41,441 Speaker 1: of Queensland at the time. There was enough in there 259 00:14:41,881 --> 00:14:44,641 Speaker 1: to see that spelled out his name, and that spelt 260 00:14:44,681 --> 00:14:49,401 Speaker 1: out andre Flum's name. Mister Bloom actually stated when asked 261 00:14:49,921 --> 00:14:53,361 Speaker 1: about her at the inquest that she had dementia, was 262 00:14:53,401 --> 00:14:57,241 Speaker 1: in a wheelchair and couldn't put two words together. So 263 00:14:57,481 --> 00:15:00,761 Speaker 1: that was his account of when he took the coins 264 00:15:00,801 --> 00:15:04,201 Speaker 1: from her in twenty ten. That was how he said 265 00:15:04,241 --> 00:15:07,241 Speaker 1: that she was entered to him, which is quite interesting. 266 00:15:08,321 --> 00:15:11,041 Speaker 1: From there, when mister Bloom was asked who he sent 267 00:15:11,161 --> 00:15:14,641 Speaker 1: the envelope back to, he said that he sent it 268 00:15:14,801 --> 00:15:18,001 Speaker 1: to her son in law, whose name was Pierre du 269 00:15:19,121 --> 00:15:21,881 Speaker 1: I thought to myself, okay, well, if we can find him, 270 00:15:22,281 --> 00:15:24,241 Speaker 1: then maybe he might be able to shed a bit 271 00:15:24,321 --> 00:15:27,921 Speaker 1: more light on this whole situation, and so I found 272 00:15:27,961 --> 00:15:32,121 Speaker 1: out that he was actually a tenor for concerts, opera 273 00:15:32,281 --> 00:15:36,361 Speaker 1: and Operetta. I then found a Facebook page that was 274 00:15:36,441 --> 00:15:39,721 Speaker 1: dedicated to his work, and I saw that it did 275 00:15:39,881 --> 00:15:42,761 Speaker 1: stop abruptly, and I had to look through all all 276 00:15:42,841 --> 00:15:46,321 Speaker 1: of the comments, and I actually found that someone had 277 00:15:46,401 --> 00:15:52,041 Speaker 1: written farewell Pierre, and then I saw who actually liked it, 278 00:15:52,281 --> 00:15:54,921 Speaker 1: and it was one of his children, because they had 279 00:15:55,041 --> 00:15:57,401 Speaker 1: he had the same name. So look, Andre was never 280 00:15:57,441 --> 00:16:02,041 Speaker 1: actually contacted by Australian officials. She wasn't contacted to give 281 00:16:02,161 --> 00:16:04,841 Speaker 1: her witness statement the inquest, and I think, you know, 282 00:16:05,081 --> 00:16:08,481 Speaker 1: perhaps it may have been because she was well. Rick 283 00:16:08,521 --> 00:16:11,001 Speaker 1: Bloom had said at that stage she was eighty when 284 00:16:11,441 --> 00:16:15,841 Speaker 1: she actually sold the coin collection, so was there potentially 285 00:16:15,881 --> 00:16:19,561 Speaker 1: an assumption there that she was too old she would 286 00:16:19,721 --> 00:16:22,801 Speaker 1: have been deceased by then, especially based on his description 287 00:16:22,921 --> 00:16:27,641 Speaker 1: of her at that time. So mister Bloom allegedly lied 288 00:16:28,401 --> 00:16:32,201 Speaker 1: at the inquest in relation to your marm or Marion's 289 00:16:32,281 --> 00:16:35,041 Speaker 1: case when he claimed that he did return the coins, 290 00:16:35,481 --> 00:16:40,481 Speaker 1: because interestingly enough, Missus Flumm actually got on to the 291 00:16:40,641 --> 00:16:45,361 Speaker 1: stand and within her testimony stated that yes she did 292 00:16:45,481 --> 00:16:49,041 Speaker 1: receive some back within the express post envelope, but not 293 00:16:49,241 --> 00:16:53,161 Speaker 1: all and all the high value coins. She stated on 294 00:16:53,401 --> 00:16:57,681 Speaker 1: record she did not receive them back and so therefore 295 00:16:57,881 --> 00:17:02,121 Speaker 1: she had very very few, she said, of no value 296 00:17:02,241 --> 00:17:04,881 Speaker 1: coins that came back to her in the envelope. 297 00:17:05,921 --> 00:17:10,241 Speaker 2: I remember actually New so Wales police asking me how 298 00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:13,721 Speaker 2: that they can get in contact with andre Flamy being 299 00:17:13,840 --> 00:17:16,761 Speaker 2: that the information they didn't hold the information. It was 300 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:22,440 Speaker 2: just a very awkward time in that realm, and I 301 00:17:22,561 --> 00:17:26,321 Speaker 2: actually don't think Rick Blum had any expectation at that 302 00:17:26,521 --> 00:17:31,960 Speaker 2: juncture that Andre Flammy would be presenting on the stand 303 00:17:32,561 --> 00:17:37,241 Speaker 2: giving evidence at my mum's inquest about her interactions with 304 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:41,160 Speaker 2: Rick Blum. It was an interesting time listening to her 305 00:17:41,441 --> 00:17:45,360 Speaker 2: because the questions were put to her all about the 306 00:17:45,481 --> 00:17:49,160 Speaker 2: allegations of what Rick Blum had said, that she was 307 00:17:49,561 --> 00:17:52,801 Speaker 2: a mute and that she had Alzheimer's and that she 308 00:17:52,961 --> 00:17:56,761 Speaker 2: was in a wheelchair. I remember her laughing when Adam 309 00:17:56,840 --> 00:18:00,400 Speaker 2: Casseleden was asking those questions to her, saying are you 310 00:18:00,481 --> 00:18:03,281 Speaker 2: in a wheelchair? Do you have Ourzheimer's? And it was 311 00:18:03,481 --> 00:18:05,880 Speaker 2: very clear at that point that that was not the 312 00:18:06,001 --> 00:18:09,400 Speaker 2: case at all, and she was firm state of mind 313 00:18:09,481 --> 00:18:12,721 Speaker 2: to be able to answer the questions and give her evidence, 314 00:18:13,521 --> 00:18:15,721 Speaker 2: even though it was three am in the morning in Portugal, 315 00:18:15,801 --> 00:18:22,521 Speaker 2: and she got up to testify, which was amazing. We 316 00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:26,801 Speaker 2: get up pretty early this morning and we worked out 317 00:18:26,961 --> 00:18:30,440 Speaker 2: that there was a flea market. Now I'm again not 318 00:18:30,721 --> 00:18:36,401 Speaker 2: great on pronunciation, so marshi pearce is how I think 319 00:18:36,481 --> 00:18:40,120 Speaker 2: it's pronounced. One of the things that I remember walking 320 00:18:40,241 --> 00:18:44,721 Speaker 2: down there actually was there was a street and out 321 00:18:44,761 --> 00:18:47,241 Speaker 2: the front of all the houses you just literally it's 322 00:18:47,241 --> 00:18:50,321 Speaker 2: all concrete, so no grass. It was literally just the 323 00:18:50,441 --> 00:18:53,681 Speaker 2: road and then a pathway and then the front door, 324 00:18:54,481 --> 00:18:56,441 Speaker 2: and out the front of the door were these tiny, 325 00:18:56,521 --> 00:19:01,400 Speaker 2: tiny little plarks, and I stopped to read what they were, 326 00:19:01,481 --> 00:19:04,201 Speaker 2: and it was quite upsetting, especially because we'd just been 327 00:19:04,241 --> 00:19:07,080 Speaker 2: to an Frank's how as well, and these plaques were 328 00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:11,841 Speaker 2: actually identities of people who lived in that house who 329 00:19:11,921 --> 00:19:16,640 Speaker 2: were taken to Outfitz and how they died, and the 330 00:19:16,801 --> 00:19:18,921 Speaker 2: dates and things like that from when they were born 331 00:19:19,001 --> 00:19:20,961 Speaker 2: to when they were taken and what they died from. 332 00:19:21,201 --> 00:19:24,001 Speaker 2: So I felt so sad that I was walking in 333 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:28,880 Speaker 2: the footsteps of people who experienced such sadness, but at 334 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:31,440 Speaker 2: the same time nice to recognize that it was a 335 00:19:31,561 --> 00:19:34,801 Speaker 2: nice tribute to those people. So we arrive at the 336 00:19:34,961 --> 00:19:38,561 Speaker 2: flea market finally to a sea of stalls selling everything 337 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:42,961 Speaker 2: from artwork, jewelry and coins. So why was this particular 338 00:19:43,281 --> 00:19:46,521 Speaker 2: flea market important, Well, we had. 339 00:19:46,481 --> 00:19:49,160 Speaker 1: Heard from a number of people over the years, because 340 00:19:49,201 --> 00:19:52,160 Speaker 1: this would have been the closest one to where he lived. 341 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:55,281 Speaker 1: We had heard from a number of people that this 342 00:19:55,721 --> 00:19:59,441 Speaker 1: was somewhere that he frequented and had a look through, 343 00:19:59,921 --> 00:20:04,001 Speaker 1: especially for coins, antiques, knickknacks. I mean, as we saw 344 00:20:04,120 --> 00:20:06,641 Speaker 1: going in there, there was all that and more, wasn't there. 345 00:20:07,120 --> 00:20:09,360 Speaker 1: That was why we went there, just to see whether 346 00:20:09,481 --> 00:20:12,561 Speaker 1: there was anyone there, and I was quite interested. It 347 00:20:12,721 --> 00:20:15,440 Speaker 1: was the same kind of thing as the Lismore, nor 348 00:20:15,521 --> 00:20:17,160 Speaker 1: Then New South Wales flea market. 349 00:20:18,521 --> 00:20:21,080 Speaker 4: Hello, won Joel, A. 350 00:20:21,201 --> 00:20:21,840 Speaker 1: Question for you. 351 00:20:22,481 --> 00:20:26,761 Speaker 3: Yeah, do you know you know this man? I don't know, 352 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:27,521 Speaker 3: you don't know? 353 00:20:28,001 --> 00:20:28,160 Speaker 7: I know? 354 00:20:28,481 --> 00:20:29,481 Speaker 2: Good ah. 355 00:20:31,001 --> 00:20:35,681 Speaker 1: Ah, okay, messy missy. Do you know the name Frederic 356 00:20:35,801 --> 00:20:38,881 Speaker 1: ahead of very Willy Wooters? 357 00:20:39,360 --> 00:20:39,400 Speaker 8: No? 358 00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:43,120 Speaker 7: No, nobody from what did you. 359 00:20:45,721 --> 00:20:46,280 Speaker 1: Excuse him? 360 00:20:46,321 --> 00:20:49,161 Speaker 4: What course? 361 00:20:49,481 --> 00:20:50,521 Speaker 3: Do you know this man. 362 00:20:52,681 --> 00:20:59,880 Speaker 1: Frederic ahead of very Willy Wooters. No, that's okay, messy, missy. 363 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:05,200 Speaker 1: I personally think that with a few of them there 364 00:21:05,321 --> 00:21:08,801 Speaker 1: was a little flicker of recognition. I can't base that 365 00:21:08,921 --> 00:21:12,880 Speaker 1: on anything. I don't have any evidence whatsoever, but I 366 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:15,920 Speaker 1: just got the impression that there could have been a 367 00:21:16,041 --> 00:21:22,481 Speaker 1: few there that may have recognized but certainly everyone denied 368 00:21:22,561 --> 00:21:27,001 Speaker 1: knowing him and not recognizing his images or anything of 369 00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:27,640 Speaker 1: that nature. 370 00:21:30,441 --> 00:21:34,401 Speaker 2: That afternoon we had been invited to go to afternoon 371 00:21:34,521 --> 00:21:41,041 Speaker 2: tea at Alexandra Pera Boom's home. Alexandra is the daughter 372 00:21:41,120 --> 00:21:45,760 Speaker 2: in law of the beautiful Galaene and we finally got 373 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:48,481 Speaker 2: to meet Gleene and give her a massive hug. I 374 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:51,880 Speaker 2: was probably the highlight for me being able to meet 375 00:21:51,921 --> 00:21:54,721 Speaker 2: her and say thank you for being brave and what 376 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:57,801 Speaker 2: a gentle soul she was. When we chatted for hours, 377 00:21:58,120 --> 00:22:01,281 Speaker 2: we were holding hands at the table. One of our 378 00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:05,521 Speaker 2: lovely followers had made Galaene a shawl. She had made 379 00:22:05,521 --> 00:22:07,721 Speaker 2: a shawl and she'd sent it to me and wrote 380 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:09,921 Speaker 2: Gleen a beautiful little card and said to me, when 381 00:22:09,921 --> 00:22:12,680 Speaker 2: you go over there, would you please give it to her. 382 00:22:13,201 --> 00:22:15,840 Speaker 2: I wanted to give her something as well from us 383 00:22:15,921 --> 00:22:18,241 Speaker 2: here in Australia, so I went to Country Road and 384 00:22:18,561 --> 00:22:23,400 Speaker 2: I bought her a pink alpacker scarf and yeah, I 385 00:22:23,521 --> 00:22:25,521 Speaker 2: just wanted her to think about it every time she 386 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:27,801 Speaker 2: props it on keep so warm and she can think 387 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:29,280 Speaker 2: of it as a big hug from all of us 388 00:22:29,321 --> 00:22:32,840 Speaker 2: here in Australia. I was just sad watching her on 389 00:22:33,001 --> 00:22:36,041 Speaker 2: the Channel seven interview and she mentioned that she needed 390 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:39,161 Speaker 2: to borrow clothes from her friends when it just really 391 00:22:39,201 --> 00:22:43,321 Speaker 2: broke my heart after as she knew him to be 392 00:22:43,441 --> 00:22:46,840 Speaker 2: Frederick de Heaviderry. She said that, you know, allegedly he 393 00:22:46,961 --> 00:22:50,321 Speaker 2: had stolen all her life savings. So I wanted to 394 00:22:50,360 --> 00:22:53,201 Speaker 2: bring her something warm, let her think that every time 395 00:22:53,281 --> 00:22:55,680 Speaker 2: she wears it, we're giving her a big hug from Australia. 396 00:22:58,281 --> 00:23:04,721 Speaker 2: I'm Sally, Hello, my love, how are you wanted to 397 00:23:04,801 --> 00:23:05,721 Speaker 2: give you big hug? 398 00:23:06,801 --> 00:23:08,321 Speaker 1: That's from everyone in Australia. 399 00:23:08,921 --> 00:23:11,201 Speaker 2: Everyone wants me to come and say hello and give 400 00:23:11,201 --> 00:23:12,960 Speaker 2: you a big hug and tell you that we all 401 00:23:13,041 --> 00:23:13,321 Speaker 2: love you. 402 00:23:13,761 --> 00:23:17,241 Speaker 7: I said to you, I am happy. 403 00:23:18,521 --> 00:23:20,241 Speaker 9: Because I'm still living. 404 00:23:20,561 --> 00:23:21,400 Speaker 1: I'm happy to. 405 00:23:23,001 --> 00:23:23,281 Speaker 7: Meet me. 406 00:23:23,761 --> 00:23:25,720 Speaker 2: Yes, I'm happy you are living too. 407 00:23:26,521 --> 00:23:27,360 Speaker 1: I'm very happy. 408 00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:32,080 Speaker 2: I brought you a gift for your birthday. A lady 409 00:23:32,120 --> 00:23:36,120 Speaker 2: who has been listening to my podcast. Yes, so she 410 00:23:36,281 --> 00:23:42,080 Speaker 2: made you something as well as a gift, and it's 411 00:23:42,201 --> 00:23:46,721 Speaker 2: made with gum leaves from Australia and I thought you could, 412 00:23:47,201 --> 00:23:48,880 Speaker 2: and it was the color would look good on you. 413 00:23:49,521 --> 00:23:52,001 Speaker 2: I wanted to give you something warm. So this is 414 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:59,361 Speaker 2: from me, but from everybody. So it's a scar that's 415 00:23:59,481 --> 00:24:06,961 Speaker 2: our packer. Thank you, You're very welcome, Thank you very much. 416 00:24:06,961 --> 00:24:11,241 Speaker 2: It's a pleasure. So we were having a big chat 417 00:24:11,681 --> 00:24:15,600 Speaker 2: with Glaine about obviously Rick Blum, because he's the connector 418 00:24:16,120 --> 00:24:19,921 Speaker 2: in this story to how I've become aware of Glaine 419 00:24:19,961 --> 00:24:23,521 Speaker 2: and with me as well, I guess. And as we 420 00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:26,360 Speaker 2: were chatting, I was telling her, you know that for 421 00:24:26,521 --> 00:24:31,201 Speaker 2: me personally, her story is the closest to my mum, 422 00:24:31,360 --> 00:24:35,201 Speaker 2: but in reverse. So we've got lots of similarities there 423 00:24:35,321 --> 00:24:38,761 Speaker 2: that have come up in evidence for my mum and 424 00:24:39,001 --> 00:24:41,961 Speaker 2: for Glaine, both of them having live a function tests, 425 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:44,920 Speaker 2: both of them talking and discussing about tea chests and 426 00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:49,521 Speaker 2: sending them overseas one way or the other, and going 427 00:24:49,801 --> 00:24:53,321 Speaker 2: overseas to start a new life. They are all things 428 00:24:53,721 --> 00:24:57,001 Speaker 2: that you know, obviously mum starting a new life. We 429 00:24:57,201 --> 00:25:00,080 Speaker 2: didn't know that, right, but that's what Glaine has told us. 430 00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:05,160 Speaker 2: Was the intention with her and Frederick de HEAVDERI. She 431 00:25:05,281 --> 00:25:08,081 Speaker 2: was telling us about the fact that Rick Blum had 432 00:25:08,201 --> 00:25:10,681 Speaker 2: allegedly explained to her that he was a big bank 433 00:25:10,801 --> 00:25:13,321 Speaker 2: mogul and had this massive house in Sydney, that he was, 434 00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:16,080 Speaker 2: you know, sad because it was an empty house, and 435 00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:19,321 Speaker 2: how he needed to fill it with love, and that 436 00:25:19,521 --> 00:25:23,400 Speaker 2: he would set up bank accounts for her children for 437 00:25:23,521 --> 00:25:25,600 Speaker 2: her to give him the money so that he could 438 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:28,321 Speaker 2: actually go and set up those bank accounts for her children. 439 00:25:28,921 --> 00:25:31,721 Speaker 2: And you know, hearing her say do you know what 440 00:25:31,801 --> 00:25:35,401 Speaker 2: he did to me? Was quite heartbreaking because you could 441 00:25:35,441 --> 00:25:36,561 Speaker 2: hear it in her voice. 442 00:25:37,120 --> 00:25:39,360 Speaker 4: And do you know what he said to me? 443 00:25:40,001 --> 00:25:40,600 Speaker 2: Can you tell me? 444 00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:52,801 Speaker 9: So quickly understood that for me my children because I 445 00:25:52,961 --> 00:25:58,801 Speaker 9: loved my husband, because with my husband. 446 00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:03,041 Speaker 6: Not to go like that, okay. 447 00:26:04,681 --> 00:26:04,881 Speaker 2: Yeah? 448 00:26:05,521 --> 00:26:12,401 Speaker 7: And he say, yes, I open an com bog. 449 00:26:13,201 --> 00:26:18,440 Speaker 2: For your children in Australia. Yes, yeah, I remember you 450 00:26:18,561 --> 00:26:23,041 Speaker 2: saying that. And probably the big bombshell for me was 451 00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:27,561 Speaker 2: when I was going through the similarities, I said to her, 452 00:26:27,721 --> 00:26:30,961 Speaker 2: you know, the only thing really that doesn't match is 453 00:26:31,001 --> 00:26:33,680 Speaker 2: that you didn't change your name. My mum changed her 454 00:26:33,761 --> 00:26:37,840 Speaker 2: name to Florabella Ramagirl. It started a flurry amongst the 455 00:26:37,921 --> 00:26:39,920 Speaker 2: three of them, didn't it journey like? Did you know 456 00:26:40,041 --> 00:26:42,880 Speaker 2: that he wanted her to change her name when she 457 00:26:43,001 --> 00:26:46,321 Speaker 2: got to Sydney, and I think Glaine's son actually was 458 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:49,600 Speaker 2: talking a fair bit about it to us at the table, 459 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:54,561 Speaker 2: and how he referenced that her name being Glaine d'armois 460 00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:58,760 Speaker 2: du Bois. He used to sit there and actually tease her, 461 00:26:59,481 --> 00:27:03,321 Speaker 2: calling her Debush, and it was said to us that 462 00:27:03,481 --> 00:27:07,281 Speaker 2: it was kind of like arogative. Glaine told us that 463 00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:09,600 Speaker 2: the intention was that when she moved to Sydney, that 464 00:27:09,681 --> 00:27:11,561 Speaker 2: he had told her that you will have to change 465 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:13,680 Speaker 2: your name, and we will be changing your name to 466 00:27:14,041 --> 00:27:14,481 Speaker 2: the Bush. 467 00:27:15,360 --> 00:27:19,801 Speaker 4: Maybe you already know that she's called Dubois, and you 468 00:27:19,921 --> 00:27:21,761 Speaker 4: know he called her. 469 00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:27,880 Speaker 5: When we will we will go in in Australia and 470 00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:30,001 Speaker 5: you will change your name it will be. 471 00:27:30,241 --> 00:27:33,920 Speaker 4: Bush because oh I didn't know that, so he was 472 00:27:34,120 --> 00:27:34,921 Speaker 4: using the same. 473 00:27:36,241 --> 00:27:36,880 Speaker 2: It was just. 474 00:27:41,761 --> 00:27:50,680 Speaker 4: Maybe it was just an idea. 475 00:27:52,281 --> 00:28:00,801 Speaker 2: Anytime he was calling her, he was always doing that Bush. Really, 476 00:28:03,681 --> 00:28:07,640 Speaker 2: I suppose, yeah, right, like with a tone and a 477 00:28:07,761 --> 00:28:11,961 Speaker 2: bit of a look. That spins me out, because as 478 00:28:12,001 --> 00:28:14,961 Speaker 2: I said to them, if you move in countries and 479 00:28:16,281 --> 00:28:18,400 Speaker 2: you then get there and change your name, it's very 480 00:28:18,521 --> 00:28:21,281 Speaker 2: hard for your family to find you if they don't 481 00:28:21,360 --> 00:28:22,080 Speaker 2: know the new name. 482 00:28:22,441 --> 00:28:25,561 Speaker 1: But when we actually went and sat down and she said, no, 483 00:28:25,961 --> 00:28:29,521 Speaker 1: actually he wanted me to change my name to that name. 484 00:28:30,321 --> 00:28:34,600 Speaker 1: That is when I thought, oh, okay, because obviously, coming 485 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:38,081 Speaker 1: from Australia, we understand the bush meaning the bush is 486 00:28:38,441 --> 00:28:40,881 Speaker 1: out in the bush, out in the mountains, out in 487 00:28:41,001 --> 00:28:44,081 Speaker 1: the forest, and that was sort of like a teasing 488 00:28:44,321 --> 00:28:48,200 Speaker 1: or you know, a silly joke. But when we realized that, 489 00:28:48,401 --> 00:28:51,441 Speaker 1: oh okay, you actually were being told asked to change 490 00:28:51,481 --> 00:28:55,121 Speaker 1: your name, yeah, that for me was I was quite 491 00:28:55,201 --> 00:28:57,521 Speaker 1: taken aback by that actually at the time. 492 00:29:00,161 --> 00:29:03,921 Speaker 2: So it's probably a point in time to add another 493 00:29:03,961 --> 00:29:07,441 Speaker 2: bit of information that has come to light. Most people 494 00:29:07,481 --> 00:29:11,921 Speaker 2: will know. I have become quite close with Janet Oldenburg 495 00:29:12,441 --> 00:29:15,361 Speaker 2: and we've gone out for coffees, and I took her 496 00:29:15,401 --> 00:29:19,081 Speaker 2: out for lunch for Christmas last year. We were just 497 00:29:19,121 --> 00:29:23,881 Speaker 2: sitting there and Janet hadn't been very well, but she 498 00:29:24,561 --> 00:29:28,481 Speaker 2: was doing a lot of wellness health wellness within herself, 499 00:29:28,601 --> 00:29:32,001 Speaker 2: and we were talking more about that and she sort 500 00:29:32,041 --> 00:29:34,441 Speaker 2: of stopped and just randomly said to me, oh, there's 501 00:29:34,481 --> 00:29:38,081 Speaker 2: something I probably should have told the police. And I said, oh, 502 00:29:38,441 --> 00:29:40,520 Speaker 2: what are you talking about? And she said, oh, well, 503 00:29:40,641 --> 00:29:45,241 Speaker 2: when I was in BALI with him. He got me 504 00:29:45,361 --> 00:29:50,121 Speaker 2: to write two letters to my family that said that 505 00:29:50,321 --> 00:29:53,361 Speaker 2: I didn't want anything to do with them. And I 506 00:29:53,521 --> 00:29:57,321 Speaker 2: just looked at her and thought, okay, And she said, yeah, 507 00:29:57,321 --> 00:29:59,761 Speaker 2: I probably should have told the police that that's probably important. 508 00:30:00,681 --> 00:30:03,321 Speaker 2: And this is like I felt bad for her because 509 00:30:03,321 --> 00:30:05,121 Speaker 2: I could see she was pretty stressed about it. And 510 00:30:05,201 --> 00:30:08,081 Speaker 2: I said, look, you know, sometimes I know myself, when 511 00:30:08,161 --> 00:30:10,721 Speaker 2: people are interviewing you and asking you questions, you tend 512 00:30:10,761 --> 00:30:13,241 Speaker 2: to answer the questions that are being asked of you. 513 00:30:13,401 --> 00:30:16,361 Speaker 2: You don't sort of have an opportunity per se to 514 00:30:16,561 --> 00:30:20,561 Speaker 2: just verbally speak openly a bit like what we were 515 00:30:20,641 --> 00:30:23,481 Speaker 2: just talking about with Glaine and the name changed. Like 516 00:30:23,841 --> 00:30:26,720 Speaker 2: unless you ask the question, they're generally probably not going 517 00:30:26,801 --> 00:30:28,281 Speaker 2: to bring it up, right, They're just going to be 518 00:30:28,361 --> 00:30:32,121 Speaker 2: answering the questions that you're asking them. Anyway, fast forward 519 00:30:32,481 --> 00:30:35,601 Speaker 2: into this year and I rang Janet and I said, look, 520 00:30:35,641 --> 00:30:37,240 Speaker 2: you know what you told me last year. I think 521 00:30:37,281 --> 00:30:39,121 Speaker 2: that's really important. I think I should give that to 522 00:30:39,241 --> 00:30:42,201 Speaker 2: the police. Are you okay? If I record this conversation, 523 00:30:42,921 --> 00:30:45,521 Speaker 2: I can give it to the homicide detectives and just 524 00:30:45,601 --> 00:30:47,641 Speaker 2: so that they know, so that they have the information 525 00:30:47,761 --> 00:30:50,001 Speaker 2: available to them, and she was like, yes, yes, of course, 526 00:30:50,041 --> 00:30:53,721 Speaker 2: I don't feel one hundred percent, but you know if 527 00:30:53,761 --> 00:30:55,001 Speaker 2: you want to. I said, well, you let me know 528 00:30:55,081 --> 00:30:56,721 Speaker 2: when it's a good time. She said, oh, text me back, 529 00:30:56,721 --> 00:30:58,161 Speaker 2: and she said, now now it's good. Now it's good. 530 00:30:58,841 --> 00:31:00,961 Speaker 2: So I rang her back and I recorded the conversation 531 00:31:01,121 --> 00:31:03,641 Speaker 2: with her, and we chatted and she filled me in. 532 00:31:04,161 --> 00:31:08,721 Speaker 6: I just wanted to ask you again because when we 533 00:31:08,801 --> 00:31:12,200 Speaker 6: went for lunch, you were telling me about when you 534 00:31:12,281 --> 00:31:14,881 Speaker 6: were in Bali with him and how you'd remembered something 535 00:31:15,001 --> 00:31:17,081 Speaker 6: that you probably should have told the police, but they 536 00:31:17,121 --> 00:31:18,161 Speaker 6: didn't ask you the right. 537 00:31:18,121 --> 00:31:22,081 Speaker 2: Question for you to remember to say what you told me. 538 00:31:22,281 --> 00:31:24,561 Speaker 2: But do you remember what that was without me telling you? 539 00:31:25,561 --> 00:31:29,641 Speaker 10: Gosh not At the moment, I've been so ensconced with 540 00:31:29,801 --> 00:31:30,681 Speaker 10: this problem. 541 00:31:30,881 --> 00:31:33,801 Speaker 2: I'm just it's a bit full, and I don't want 542 00:31:33,801 --> 00:31:36,761 Speaker 2: to put any pressure on you. It was about Rick 543 00:31:36,841 --> 00:31:40,281 Speaker 2: Blum making you write a letter when you're in Bali. 544 00:31:41,801 --> 00:31:44,321 Speaker 10: Yeah, yeah, And it was about not being in touch 545 00:31:44,401 --> 00:31:47,361 Speaker 10: with my family and stuff like that. But he had 546 00:31:47,401 --> 00:31:50,081 Speaker 10: all that stuff and he made me write out another one. 547 00:31:50,161 --> 00:31:52,480 Speaker 10: He said, oh, your writing is different, so. 548 00:31:52,601 --> 00:31:54,641 Speaker 2: Tell me a little bit about that. Just so I 549 00:31:54,721 --> 00:31:57,921 Speaker 2: can let the homicide team know because that's a very 550 00:31:58,001 --> 00:32:00,041 Speaker 2: important part of it, which I wish they'd asked you 551 00:32:00,161 --> 00:32:00,601 Speaker 2: that question. 552 00:32:02,441 --> 00:32:07,401 Speaker 10: Gosh, it was a bad not have any anything to 553 00:32:07,481 --> 00:32:11,520 Speaker 10: do with my family. We were living over we're going 554 00:32:11,601 --> 00:32:13,521 Speaker 10: to live overseas and all this. 555 00:32:14,161 --> 00:32:16,121 Speaker 2: You told me when we were chatting about it that 556 00:32:16,241 --> 00:32:17,521 Speaker 2: you had to write it twice. 557 00:32:18,161 --> 00:32:20,281 Speaker 10: Yeah, I had to do that twice, but it was 558 00:32:20,641 --> 00:32:22,841 Speaker 10: there was more into it, but I can't remember. 559 00:32:23,521 --> 00:32:25,321 Speaker 2: And then he took the letters from you, and you 560 00:32:25,441 --> 00:32:29,041 Speaker 2: didn't know what happened to them, That's right, I don't know. 561 00:32:29,961 --> 00:32:35,761 Speaker 2: I've since passed that information onto the homicide detectives. And unfortunately, 562 00:32:36,601 --> 00:32:41,001 Speaker 2: my friend Janet passed away on Friday, the thirtieth of May. 563 00:32:42,121 --> 00:32:44,921 Speaker 2: She was actually at the same hospital my dad was 564 00:32:44,961 --> 00:32:47,841 Speaker 2: at when he broke his jaw in three places after 565 00:32:47,921 --> 00:32:51,281 Speaker 2: having a fall in his care facility. So I was 566 00:32:52,041 --> 00:32:54,921 Speaker 2: going and seeing them on the daily, being that she 567 00:32:55,121 --> 00:32:57,841 Speaker 2: was upstairs as well. She was downstairs, Dad was upstairs. 568 00:32:58,481 --> 00:33:01,681 Speaker 2: And it's her funeral tomorrow, so pretty sad time for me. 569 00:33:01,921 --> 00:33:06,241 Speaker 2: I became quite close to her. Happened very quickly and 570 00:33:06,401 --> 00:33:09,041 Speaker 2: very fast, but you know, the last conversation I had 571 00:33:09,081 --> 00:33:11,561 Speaker 2: with the detectives was oh, well, can we get somebody 572 00:33:11,601 --> 00:33:13,201 Speaker 2: in there to go and talk to Janet because we'll 573 00:33:13,201 --> 00:33:15,241 Speaker 2: probably need to get her to tell us herself. And 574 00:33:15,321 --> 00:33:17,841 Speaker 2: I said, well, I'm not sure I want you to 575 00:33:17,921 --> 00:33:20,561 Speaker 2: do that because she's not well and she's in hospital now, 576 00:33:20,721 --> 00:33:23,641 Speaker 2: so you know, it doesn't matter. At the end of 577 00:33:23,681 --> 00:33:26,241 Speaker 2: the day, it doesn't matter. She matters more to me 578 00:33:26,441 --> 00:33:30,881 Speaker 2: than her giving evidence about something so sad time in life. 579 00:33:37,201 --> 00:33:42,081 Speaker 2: As our journey progressed, we walked in back from Galaan's 580 00:33:42,161 --> 00:33:46,401 Speaker 2: and the restaurant downstairs was absolutely chockers and I thought, 581 00:33:46,441 --> 00:33:48,361 Speaker 2: oh gosh, it must be good if there's so many 582 00:33:48,521 --> 00:33:51,721 Speaker 2: people here. I went up to the lady at the desk, 583 00:33:51,801 --> 00:33:54,561 Speaker 2: I said, any chance we can get a table for two, 584 00:33:54,641 --> 00:33:56,961 Speaker 2: and she said, yes, yes, absolutely, come and sit down. 585 00:33:57,001 --> 00:33:59,001 Speaker 2: I've got a table for you. So, to our surprise, 586 00:33:59,121 --> 00:34:01,361 Speaker 2: we actually managed to grab a table and have something 587 00:34:01,401 --> 00:34:03,961 Speaker 2: to eat. And I just had gone up to the 588 00:34:04,841 --> 00:34:08,001 Speaker 2: canter or concierge and I just spoke to the gentleman. 589 00:34:08,081 --> 00:34:10,440 Speaker 2: I said, listen, we've got a problem in our room 590 00:34:10,761 --> 00:34:15,401 Speaker 2: where the window isn't shutting properly, so it's freezing cold 591 00:34:15,641 --> 00:34:18,321 Speaker 2: and we can hear everything. Is there any chance we 592 00:34:18,361 --> 00:34:21,601 Speaker 2: could move to a different room? And I said, look, 593 00:34:21,641 --> 00:34:24,001 Speaker 2: we're just going to have some dinner. Maybe if you 594 00:34:24,041 --> 00:34:26,321 Speaker 2: could have a player and see if there's anything available 595 00:34:26,321 --> 00:34:28,161 Speaker 2: and let us know. And he said, come and see 596 00:34:28,201 --> 00:34:30,721 Speaker 2: me when you finished. I've got a room you can 597 00:34:30,801 --> 00:34:34,961 Speaker 2: go to. So we finish our dinner and we walk 598 00:34:35,081 --> 00:34:37,281 Speaker 2: up to the room and he's explained to us that 599 00:34:37,961 --> 00:34:41,161 Speaker 2: the room that he can offer us is one bed. 600 00:34:41,361 --> 00:34:42,881 Speaker 2: So in our room that we were in we had 601 00:34:42,921 --> 00:34:46,001 Speaker 2: two separate beds and we were in singles. We had 602 00:34:46,041 --> 00:34:49,041 Speaker 2: to share a double bed. So he said, look, here's 603 00:34:49,121 --> 00:34:51,601 Speaker 2: the key. So we went for a walk, didn't we journey? 604 00:34:52,081 --> 00:34:52,401 Speaker 2: We did. 605 00:34:52,641 --> 00:34:54,801 Speaker 1: We got into the lift and we went downstairs and 606 00:34:55,001 --> 00:34:58,041 Speaker 1: as the doors opened, what did we experience? 607 00:34:59,281 --> 00:34:59,641 Speaker 2: Smoke? 608 00:34:59,841 --> 00:35:01,281 Speaker 1: Smoke, smoke. 609 00:35:03,521 --> 00:35:17,721 Speaker 7: Block you go first, okay, okay, don't set the alarms off, like, 610 00:35:19,241 --> 00:35:20,361 Speaker 7: oh my. 611 00:35:24,041 --> 00:35:24,521 Speaker 6: God, a light? 612 00:35:27,561 --> 00:35:29,161 Speaker 7: Where did I book a stoney? 613 00:35:30,321 --> 00:35:31,481 Speaker 6: What is this in here? 614 00:35:32,641 --> 00:35:36,001 Speaker 2: It's a it's a cold tower and it's hidden. 615 00:35:37,001 --> 00:35:37,841 Speaker 1: It is a cool one. 616 00:35:38,881 --> 00:35:40,961 Speaker 2: Sure what it was with the length under the table 617 00:35:41,961 --> 00:35:46,681 Speaker 2: out there, the legs under the table. Maybe it was 618 00:35:46,801 --> 00:35:47,361 Speaker 2: a brothel. 619 00:35:48,201 --> 00:35:51,801 Speaker 1: We didn't know. We're from Australia from Love Made. 620 00:35:52,841 --> 00:35:56,241 Speaker 2: We're staying in the hotel and they it's all the 621 00:35:56,321 --> 00:35:58,881 Speaker 2: smoke out there, and we were worried about where we 622 00:35:59,081 --> 00:36:04,321 Speaker 2: were going. Do we need a reservation? 623 00:36:05,361 --> 00:36:05,561 Speaker 6: Yes? 624 00:36:05,961 --> 00:36:06,161 Speaker 1: Yes. 625 00:36:07,681 --> 00:36:12,601 Speaker 2: It's now Monday, the fourteenth of October, and we planned 626 00:36:12,681 --> 00:36:16,480 Speaker 2: to return to the Royal Library of Brussels and we'd 627 00:36:16,521 --> 00:36:18,961 Speaker 2: made a connection there with a gentleman who was the 628 00:36:19,521 --> 00:36:25,561 Speaker 2: conservator muten of the coin Cabinet. So we checked out 629 00:36:25,601 --> 00:36:29,321 Speaker 2: of our hotel. We stored all our luggage at concierge 630 00:36:29,361 --> 00:36:33,441 Speaker 2: before making another dash in the rain up to the library. Joey, 631 00:36:33,601 --> 00:36:36,601 Speaker 2: the pebbles on the road very slippery. Oh yeah, and 632 00:36:36,681 --> 00:36:39,601 Speaker 2: it literally had rained every day we'd been away so far. 633 00:36:39,841 --> 00:36:41,961 Speaker 2: So we make our way up to the top of 634 00:36:42,001 --> 00:36:45,881 Speaker 2: the hill the KBR to meet and chat with this 635 00:36:46,161 --> 00:36:49,761 Speaker 2: new friend of ours, and we walk into the coin cabinet. 636 00:36:50,041 --> 00:36:52,601 Speaker 1: He was great, wasn't he? Like he really did. He 637 00:36:52,761 --> 00:36:55,121 Speaker 1: was quite open, Like I don't know what you felt, 638 00:36:55,161 --> 00:36:58,041 Speaker 1: but I sort of felt a little bit awkward, you know, 639 00:36:58,081 --> 00:37:01,521 Speaker 1: because I had not really explaining to him anything at 640 00:37:01,561 --> 00:37:04,761 Speaker 1: all about the situation. So I remember walking in in 641 00:37:04,841 --> 00:37:07,641 Speaker 1: his Oh, so, what would you like to see within 642 00:37:07,761 --> 00:37:11,761 Speaker 1: the coin cabinet. So having to again just say that 643 00:37:11,841 --> 00:37:15,000 Speaker 1: people are kind of aware like me and sale having 644 00:37:15,081 --> 00:37:20,001 Speaker 1: to make these giant leaps with people going from yes, 645 00:37:20,041 --> 00:37:23,241 Speaker 1: we're here to see coins to can we sit down 646 00:37:23,321 --> 00:37:26,281 Speaker 1: with you and let's tell you a whole scenario where 647 00:37:26,601 --> 00:37:30,480 Speaker 1: you may have information that might help us. It's quite 648 00:37:30,521 --> 00:37:33,321 Speaker 1: a big leap to make, I think. So he just 649 00:37:33,441 --> 00:37:36,881 Speaker 1: openly listened to us. He just listened to the situation. 650 00:37:36,841 --> 00:37:39,041 Speaker 2: Took us on a tour as well. He explained to 651 00:37:39,201 --> 00:37:43,081 Speaker 2: us about how there's been a lot of fraudulent activity 652 00:37:43,161 --> 00:37:46,201 Speaker 2: through the coin cabinet over the years where people would 653 00:37:46,241 --> 00:37:50,401 Speaker 2: come in and they would literally swap out coins. From 654 00:37:50,441 --> 00:37:53,521 Speaker 2: what I gathered, like people would walk in. Therefore, everything 655 00:37:53,561 --> 00:37:55,921 Speaker 2: and now is under huge lock and key. You have 656 00:37:56,041 --> 00:37:59,881 Speaker 2: to make appointments, everyone signed in. There's no just general 657 00:38:00,241 --> 00:38:03,121 Speaker 2: walking in and helping yourself and swapping something out. But 658 00:38:03,241 --> 00:38:05,721 Speaker 2: that has happened in the past and they have had 659 00:38:05,761 --> 00:38:10,041 Speaker 2: experiences with that. He was going to some big meeting 660 00:38:10,161 --> 00:38:13,121 Speaker 2: where a lot of the big cooin people were coming. 661 00:38:13,441 --> 00:38:15,401 Speaker 2: Is that right, that's right. He was going to ask 662 00:38:15,481 --> 00:38:18,081 Speaker 2: some questions. Has he come back to you about that? 663 00:38:18,201 --> 00:38:19,001 Speaker 2: Since we've got. 664 00:38:18,921 --> 00:38:23,521 Speaker 1: Back, he has He said that nobody knew mister Bloom 665 00:38:23,681 --> 00:38:27,041 Speaker 1: and that is interesting because I do have a number 666 00:38:27,081 --> 00:38:30,401 Speaker 1: of dealers on records stating that they did do business 667 00:38:30,481 --> 00:38:35,201 Speaker 1: with him. So again it could just be people being polite, 668 00:38:35,321 --> 00:38:39,641 Speaker 1: people not wanting to get involved. Is a different name, 669 00:38:39,881 --> 00:38:42,121 Speaker 1: you know, this is the quite well, that's the thing. 670 00:38:42,361 --> 00:38:45,241 Speaker 1: I mean, how many different names. And also you do 671 00:38:45,481 --> 00:38:48,241 Speaker 1: need to be aware too. So we have one dealer 672 00:38:48,321 --> 00:38:51,481 Speaker 1: that has stated, you know, in an email to me 673 00:38:52,161 --> 00:38:55,281 Speaker 1: that Gilaine did actually go in and requests catalogs, so 674 00:38:55,401 --> 00:38:58,721 Speaker 1: that is on their file. So whenever anyone requests a catalog, 675 00:38:59,641 --> 00:39:02,961 Speaker 1: they have to give their ID and so it was 676 00:39:03,041 --> 00:39:05,961 Speaker 1: actually noted down that she did do that and the 677 00:39:06,121 --> 00:39:09,281 Speaker 1: date and everything obviously from a sales point of view. 678 00:39:09,481 --> 00:39:12,201 Speaker 1: So he explained to me that it's so that because 679 00:39:12,201 --> 00:39:15,281 Speaker 1: someone's gotten a physical catalog, so they can follow up 680 00:39:15,281 --> 00:39:17,681 Speaker 1: with that person. You know, did you want to purchase 681 00:39:17,721 --> 00:39:20,681 Speaker 1: anything from the catalog that we gave you last week? 682 00:39:21,081 --> 00:39:25,601 Speaker 2: For example? And he also did Elson's Yeah, that was Alson's, Yeah, 683 00:39:25,881 --> 00:39:29,361 Speaker 2: the biggest dealer in Belgium, that's all right, and then 684 00:39:30,041 --> 00:39:34,641 Speaker 2: also Charlotte as well, so she actually did purchase coins 685 00:39:35,321 --> 00:39:40,121 Speaker 2: from Elson so they have got those all that purchase information. 686 00:39:40,841 --> 00:39:45,521 Speaker 2: So again that that is another purchase that was made. 687 00:39:45,721 --> 00:39:48,961 Speaker 2: As you said, who is the purchaser and who ultimately 688 00:39:49,081 --> 00:39:52,521 Speaker 2: gets the coin at the end is the question, isn't 689 00:39:52,561 --> 00:39:56,001 Speaker 2: it really? So there is actually a warning in the 690 00:39:56,121 --> 00:40:01,641 Speaker 2: files of the International Association of Professional Neumattisks. I can 691 00:40:01,801 --> 00:40:06,521 Speaker 2: never say that word IPAN, so I actually contacted them 692 00:40:06,721 --> 00:40:09,561 Speaker 2: and they wrote back to me saying that they have 693 00:40:09,721 --> 00:40:10,321 Speaker 2: got a warning. 694 00:40:10,961 --> 00:40:15,321 Speaker 1: It's for a mister r our West. So again Richard 695 00:40:15,441 --> 00:40:20,681 Speaker 1: Lloyd West, one of Rick Bloom's aliases, noting his address, 696 00:40:21,001 --> 00:40:25,081 Speaker 1: and interestingly enough his address was a post office box 697 00:40:25,161 --> 00:40:32,241 Speaker 1: in Ballina or Luxembourg. So again we have Luxembourg mentioned, 698 00:40:32,721 --> 00:40:36,161 Speaker 1: which seems to be the theme throughout the years, and 699 00:40:36,281 --> 00:40:39,721 Speaker 1: that was for a non payment in June nineteen ninety six. 700 00:40:40,361 --> 00:40:42,521 Speaker 1: So if you think about that again, that is twelve 701 00:40:42,641 --> 00:40:46,641 Speaker 1: months before your mum is writing on her incoming and 702 00:40:46,681 --> 00:40:49,361 Speaker 1: outgoing passenger cards Luxembourg. 703 00:40:49,841 --> 00:40:53,201 Speaker 7: From Australia Prorostaria miss a long trip. 704 00:40:55,721 --> 00:41:15,241 Speaker 4: Lazy as basically here and this the coin cabinet. 705 00:41:16,241 --> 00:41:20,801 Speaker 8: It's actually quite central to a story about a Belgian man. 706 00:41:21,601 --> 00:41:26,721 Speaker 4: He's eighty four years of age now but he moved 707 00:41:26,721 --> 00:41:31,681 Speaker 4: to Australia. He was a Santin coined feeler and collector 708 00:41:32,241 --> 00:41:37,321 Speaker 4: in Belgium. His name is Frederick Head a very yes. 709 00:41:37,681 --> 00:41:41,121 Speaker 5: Yes, so he bought and sold a lot with Jim 710 00:41:41,241 --> 00:41:46,321 Speaker 5: Nobles from Nobles in Mathematics from Australia, Yes yes, and 711 00:41:46,521 --> 00:41:47,921 Speaker 5: Alison down. 712 00:41:48,881 --> 00:41:52,401 Speaker 4: So the reason for our visit is that he is 713 00:41:52,521 --> 00:41:57,321 Speaker 4: actually was in court for Sally's. 714 00:41:56,841 --> 00:42:00,681 Speaker 8: Mother is a missing person. The reason why we've come 715 00:42:00,761 --> 00:42:05,601 Speaker 8: to see today is because we're trying to locate other 716 00:42:06,401 --> 00:42:07,401 Speaker 8: people in Belgium. 717 00:42:08,001 --> 00:42:11,561 Speaker 4: And one thing he said on the standing core that 718 00:42:11,921 --> 00:42:12,161 Speaker 4: in the. 719 00:42:12,201 --> 00:42:16,641 Speaker 8: Report is that he would come here and he would 720 00:42:17,161 --> 00:42:20,801 Speaker 8: sit in a cafeteria or in one of the waiting areas, 721 00:42:21,241 --> 00:42:25,480 Speaker 8: and he would approach people as they came and went, 722 00:42:26,521 --> 00:42:29,761 Speaker 8: asking about what their coins were. 723 00:42:30,401 --> 00:42:33,121 Speaker 2: So we leave his office. We've taken up probably I 724 00:42:33,161 --> 00:42:35,241 Speaker 2: don't know, about an hour and a half of his time. 725 00:42:35,521 --> 00:42:37,121 Speaker 2: I say to Jonny, I'm just going to go to 726 00:42:37,241 --> 00:42:40,761 Speaker 2: the bathroom anyway. So I go into the bathroom. There's 727 00:42:40,761 --> 00:42:44,201 Speaker 2: no one in there. I get in there and the 728 00:42:44,321 --> 00:42:48,641 Speaker 2: door handle doesn't open. So I'm turning the handle and 729 00:42:48,721 --> 00:42:51,761 Speaker 2: it's just turning loosely. I can't actually physically get the 730 00:42:51,881 --> 00:42:56,921 Speaker 2: door open. I am locking a toilet, the door handles working, 731 00:42:57,081 --> 00:43:01,441 Speaker 2: and I can't get out. Okay, okay, find me. 732 00:43:08,921 --> 00:43:10,281 Speaker 7: And you let me leave me in here. 733 00:43:14,961 --> 00:43:16,081 Speaker 6: That is dangerous. 734 00:43:19,641 --> 00:43:20,881 Speaker 2: Oh my god. 735 00:43:21,121 --> 00:43:22,841 Speaker 4: I was having a heart attack. I had to start 736 00:43:22,881 --> 00:43:27,440 Speaker 4: recording myself, baby, and I've bought it to months another. 737 00:43:27,441 --> 00:43:30,281 Speaker 4: I did shirts, but something's happened, and you were going 738 00:43:30,361 --> 00:43:31,041 Speaker 4: to leave me in there. 739 00:43:31,601 --> 00:43:34,081 Speaker 2: You're not fine, and I just I just called that 740 00:43:34,201 --> 00:43:36,721 Speaker 2: on camera. I was decided, she's going to leave me 741 00:43:36,761 --> 00:43:39,561 Speaker 2: in there? Everybody, can you believe that? So Johnny knows 742 00:43:39,681 --> 00:43:42,001 Speaker 2: all too well that when I get a b in 743 00:43:42,121 --> 00:43:45,441 Speaker 2: my bonnet, I keep going till I find the answers. 744 00:43:46,721 --> 00:43:49,001 Speaker 2: And Johnny, you are a bit the same. And hence, 745 00:43:49,441 --> 00:43:51,480 Speaker 2: while we probably get on so well, I would say. 746 00:43:52,881 --> 00:43:56,681 Speaker 2: But a little while back, whilst the inquest hearing into 747 00:43:56,761 --> 00:44:02,961 Speaker 2: my mum's disappearance was taking place, I remember hearing Rick 748 00:44:03,041 --> 00:44:06,481 Speaker 2: Blum tell the court about all his past marriages and 749 00:44:06,721 --> 00:44:10,641 Speaker 2: children to the many women that he'd married, apparently all 750 00:44:10,761 --> 00:44:14,321 Speaker 2: unbeknown to his current wife. I said to you, I 751 00:44:14,481 --> 00:44:18,081 Speaker 2: think we need to find the ex wives. We decided 752 00:44:18,121 --> 00:44:20,641 Speaker 2: to go down that route, and that rabbit hole, and 753 00:44:21,801 --> 00:44:26,081 Speaker 2: first was Alona Kinzell. She was actually Rick Blum's third 754 00:44:26,161 --> 00:44:29,321 Speaker 2: wife and as a loner, had died in Australia. Her 755 00:44:29,401 --> 00:44:33,041 Speaker 2: death certificates sat behind the open access here in archives 756 00:44:33,921 --> 00:44:40,001 Speaker 2: and this was a massive pandora's box. Finding another of 757 00:44:40,121 --> 00:44:43,000 Speaker 2: Rick Blum's daughters, Evelyn, who had a lot to tell, 758 00:44:43,721 --> 00:44:47,121 Speaker 2: and last I spoke to Evelyn, she had still not 759 00:44:47,241 --> 00:44:50,561 Speaker 2: been interviewed by New South Wales police. We then had 760 00:44:51,041 --> 00:44:55,081 Speaker 2: Blums in our opinion and we've been able to establish 761 00:44:55,281 --> 00:45:01,081 Speaker 2: he's Noan firstborn son, Gayton, who happened to read about 762 00:45:01,801 --> 00:45:04,601 Speaker 2: my search for my mum and saw his father in 763 00:45:04,681 --> 00:45:08,761 Speaker 2: the local newspaper in the Luxembourg wart Over in Luxembourg, 764 00:45:09,241 --> 00:45:14,121 Speaker 2: an article written by Tom Riddell, and he contacted me 765 00:45:14,321 --> 00:45:19,121 Speaker 2: through my Facebook page and generously filling in some gaps 766 00:45:19,201 --> 00:45:23,081 Speaker 2: regarding his mother married to Rick Blum, who at the 767 00:45:23,161 --> 00:45:26,480 Speaker 2: time was known as Willy Wooters. And I remember him 768 00:45:26,961 --> 00:45:30,841 Speaker 2: telling us how disgusted he was to hear that he 769 00:45:31,041 --> 00:45:35,761 Speaker 2: didn't even remember his own daughter's name. So that was interesting, 770 00:45:35,921 --> 00:45:39,161 Speaker 2: and Gayetan was started to interact with us a little bit, 771 00:45:39,201 --> 00:45:42,281 Speaker 2: didn't he, and he gave us some important documents that 772 00:45:42,361 --> 00:45:46,001 Speaker 2: his mother had kept all this time. But I remember 773 00:45:46,281 --> 00:45:49,521 Speaker 2: she wasn't very well and she'd just gone to hospital actually, 774 00:45:49,601 --> 00:45:51,001 Speaker 2: and he said, look, I don't want to ask her 775 00:45:51,041 --> 00:45:55,321 Speaker 2: too many questions because she's not very well. You particularly 776 00:45:55,601 --> 00:45:59,161 Speaker 2: found some crazy connectors. Do you want to tell everybody 777 00:45:59,241 --> 00:46:00,281 Speaker 2: about the cake? 778 00:46:01,601 --> 00:46:04,841 Speaker 1: Yes, with Evelyn. So my one of my birthday cakes 779 00:46:05,201 --> 00:46:10,881 Speaker 1: myself was actually purchased from Evelyn. So Evelyn did like 780 00:46:10,961 --> 00:46:15,081 Speaker 1: a raw food cake kind of business. And so when 781 00:46:15,561 --> 00:46:21,201 Speaker 1: I found the ABN related to and Evelyn Wooters and 782 00:46:21,361 --> 00:46:24,881 Speaker 1: then realized that that was, you know, possibly going to 783 00:46:24,921 --> 00:46:28,361 Speaker 1: be Rick Bloom's daughter. I then looked at the business 784 00:46:28,521 --> 00:46:32,761 Speaker 1: name and realized that that is actually where I bought 785 00:46:32,921 --> 00:46:35,521 Speaker 1: my birthday cake quite a few years ago. 786 00:46:37,081 --> 00:46:40,401 Speaker 2: Yeah. Crazy, it's crazy little things. So the reason this 787 00:46:40,521 --> 00:46:43,281 Speaker 2: is important and the reason we connect it to Belgium 788 00:46:43,561 --> 00:46:47,081 Speaker 2: is because the second wife that Rick Blum mentions in 789 00:46:47,201 --> 00:46:52,000 Speaker 2: the inquest is Nicole Renault, and to date we still 790 00:46:52,081 --> 00:46:55,561 Speaker 2: haven't found Nicole. So you might have heard me mentioned 791 00:46:55,881 --> 00:46:58,561 Speaker 2: coming out of London. I was like, maybe we could 792 00:46:58,681 --> 00:47:03,121 Speaker 2: ask for some help because I've been become connected to 793 00:47:03,521 --> 00:47:06,841 Speaker 2: theo Hayes's parents who live in Belgium. And they have 794 00:47:06,961 --> 00:47:09,801 Speaker 2: offered to help me whenever they need to with anything 795 00:47:09,881 --> 00:47:12,921 Speaker 2: over there, and vice versa. You know, do we go 796 00:47:13,161 --> 00:47:15,281 Speaker 2: to the police and put in a welfare check for 797 00:47:15,441 --> 00:47:18,441 Speaker 2: Nicole Renau and see if they can find her. I 798 00:47:18,521 --> 00:47:22,361 Speaker 2: guess knowing that she is safe and well. Elderly, but 799 00:47:22,481 --> 00:47:25,041 Speaker 2: safe and well is good good enough for me to 800 00:47:25,281 --> 00:47:30,841 Speaker 2: go okay. At least she's okay in the next episode 801 00:47:30,921 --> 00:47:35,481 Speaker 2: of The Missing Matter. So next up Luxembourg. This is 802 00:47:35,561 --> 00:47:41,361 Speaker 2: where we are on a mission to go and meet 803 00:47:41,961 --> 00:47:45,881 Speaker 2: in person Monique Cornelius. Wanted to give her a hug, 804 00:47:46,201 --> 00:47:49,961 Speaker 2: take her some flowers, and hopefully have a chat with 805 00:47:50,121 --> 00:47:54,761 Speaker 2: her about anything really that she's happy to share with us. 806 00:47:55,281 --> 00:47:58,481 Speaker 2: We catch the bus straight out, that's the first cab 807 00:47:58,561 --> 00:48:01,281 Speaker 2: off the rank. We want to head out to Itsich 808 00:48:01,721 --> 00:48:05,921 Speaker 2: and we find Moniques is zactly the same place that 809 00:48:06,161 --> 00:48:08,361 Speaker 2: I went to when I went there back in twenty 810 00:48:08,481 --> 00:48:12,161 Speaker 2: nineteen with the Channel seven crew. It looked a little 811 00:48:12,201 --> 00:48:16,801 Speaker 2: bit different, but what we saw on the name plate 812 00:48:17,681 --> 00:48:20,721 Speaker 2: on the front door was something that I hadn't noticed before.