WEBVTT - What evolutionary biology can teach us about our health

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<v Speaker 1>Okad a. Welcome to Healthy Ish. I hope you are

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<v Speaker 1>feeling well healthy today, not the ish. I am your

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<v Speaker 1>host of Felicity Hawlen, of course, this is the daily

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<v Speaker 1>podcast from Body and Soul. I'm joined today by award

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<v Speaker 1>winning science journalist and author of new book Why Are

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<v Speaker 1>We Like This? Zoe Keane. We're discussing how evolutionary history

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<v Speaker 1>shapes our current health behaviors and why understanding it all

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<v Speaker 1>can help boost well, not only your health, but also

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<v Speaker 1>your wellbeing. Now, we keep our Healthiest episodes quite short,

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<v Speaker 1>so if you want to hear a longer chat with

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<v Speaker 1>Zoe where we take a deep dive into aging, search

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<v Speaker 1>for our sister pod, Extra Healthy Ish, where we get

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<v Speaker 1>your podcasts. Hey Zoey, thanks for coming on healthy Is today.

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<v Speaker 2>Gooday, thank you for having me.

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<v Speaker 1>And well done on your I'm calling it fascinating new book.

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<v Speaker 2>I love that.

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<v Speaker 1>Now talk to us, how can evolutionary biology, well, what

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<v Speaker 1>can it teach us about our health today?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, there's a bit of a saying among evolutionary biologists,

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<v Speaker 2>and I spoke to a lot of them for this book,

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<v Speaker 2>that nothing in biology makes sense outside of the light

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<v Speaker 2>of evolution, and essentially that's because we all got here

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<v Speaker 2>with an evolutionary story. Every single thing that is alive

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<v Speaker 2>on this planet has this amazing legacy of generations going

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<v Speaker 2>back and back and back and surviving in different contexts,

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<v Speaker 2>and that history changes the way in which we turn

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<v Speaker 2>up in the world today and changes the way our

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<v Speaker 2>body works and influences everything from how we sleep, how

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<v Speaker 2>we eat, how we experience emotions and love. Everything that

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<v Speaker 2>we experience as living being things is a consequence of

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<v Speaker 2>this history. And that doesn't take away from our own

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<v Speaker 2>individual experience or how important important our lives are to us,

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<v Speaker 2>but it is this incredible legacy, and it really helps

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<v Speaker 2>us untangle some of the trickier questions we've faced in life.

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<v Speaker 1>I think when you, I mean I've delved into it

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<v Speaker 1>a bit too, you know, the past couple of years,

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<v Speaker 1>into how we've evolved and you know as to who

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<v Speaker 1>we are today, and it really does help you appreciate

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<v Speaker 1>how well not just your body functions, but how we

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<v Speaker 1>relate in the world. Your book is cut up into

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<v Speaker 1>different chapters, you know, sleep, care, sex, lives. Talk to

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<v Speaker 1>us a bit about sleep, you know, and where how

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<v Speaker 1>that has perhaps developed over the years, and well how

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<v Speaker 1>we can sleep better today, That's what I want to know. Yeah, Well,

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<v Speaker 1>so every chapter kind of focuses on this, this crunchy

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<v Speaker 1>issue in evolutionary biology that doesn't quite make sense with

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<v Speaker 1>a kind of first pass idea of you know, traits

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<v Speaker 1>that are selected for that help us survive and then

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<v Speaker 1>have more offspring, and those offsprings. Sleeps a bit of

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<v Speaker 1>a weird one because it's strange to completely lose consciousness

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<v Speaker 1>in a dangerous world. Right when we go to sleep,

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<v Speaker 1>we're vulnerable, And so how has.

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<v Speaker 2>Something that has made us vulnerable continued? And of course

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<v Speaker 2>it's continued because it's incredibly healthy for us, or we've

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<v Speaker 2>kind of offloaded a lot of biological functions into the

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<v Speaker 2>sleep time that we need to survive and we can't

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<v Speaker 2>survive without sleep. Interestingly, one of the things I found

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<v Speaker 2>when I was researching this book and this kind of

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<v Speaker 2>bucks the trend a little bit is that modern humans

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<v Speaker 2>are probably sleeping better than we ever have.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh and I know, actually that is lovely to hear.

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<v Speaker 2>It is, isn't it, because we've got so much anxiety

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<v Speaker 2>around sleep. I spoke to this wonderful researcher, David Sinclair,

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<v Speaker 2>and he's been doing a lot of research around this

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<v Speaker 2>is based in Canada and Toronto, and he was saying,

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<v Speaker 2>in our culture, one of the things that we do

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<v Speaker 2>is really problematize sleep. And of course, you know, I've

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<v Speaker 2>just enturing my book I'll sleep deprived for a bit

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<v Speaker 2>of that. And it's horrible when you're sleep deprived, and

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<v Speaker 2>there are periods in your life, say when you're raising

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<v Speaker 2>up kids, that you are sleep deprived, and it's awful

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<v Speaker 2>and it impacts you physically, it impacts your health. But

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<v Speaker 2>compared to the history of life on Earth, we're probably

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<v Speaker 2>doing okay. And that can be a really comforting thing

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<v Speaker 2>to know because we kind of hear these dire headlines

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<v Speaker 2>about sleep loss, epidemic and all this type of thing.

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<v Speaker 2>But essentially, you know, I did also encounter some things

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<v Speaker 2>that we can do to make our sleep better, and

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<v Speaker 2>that is really get in touch with our circadian rhythm.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's like really the basic stuff. You know, make

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<v Speaker 2>sure that you're seeing the light in the morning, seeing

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<v Speaker 2>the light in midday if you're working in an office block,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, just trying to get out for lunch and

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<v Speaker 2>then seeing the light at the end of the day.

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<v Speaker 2>So you know, actually going outside can be really helpful.

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<v Speaker 2>And of course, one of the big things that we

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<v Speaker 2>can do to help sleep is to help each other

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<v Speaker 2>live better, less stressful lives. So a huge impact on

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<v Speaker 2>everybody's sleep is you know, we might have heard the

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<v Speaker 2>term social determinants of health, but if your life is hard,

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<v Speaker 2>if you're living in danger, so you know, if you're

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<v Speaker 2>living in a dangerous neighborhood, you have worse sleep compared

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<v Speaker 2>to someone who's living in a safe neighborhood. And if

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<v Speaker 2>you're living in, say a situation where you know there's

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<v Speaker 2>worry and anxiety around, then that obviously affects your sleep.

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<v Speaker 2>And we feel that on a personal level when we're stressed,

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<v Speaker 2>it's harder to sleep. But also that's a larger cultural thing.

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<v Speaker 2>So you know, you can help people sleep by just

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<v Speaker 2>checking in on a mate and making sure that your

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<v Speaker 2>friends and family are safe. And we often get individual advice,

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<v Speaker 2>but community advice is a really big one for sleep,

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<v Speaker 2>because just community safety can really help with our sleep.

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<v Speaker 2>One chapter that I've found perhaps reassuring more than ever

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<v Speaker 2>right now with all that's going on in the world

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<v Speaker 2>is why we care and.

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<v Speaker 1>Whales and wolves and humans. You know, you link these

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<v Speaker 1>two and you talk about the survival depending on acts

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<v Speaker 1>of kindness.

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<v Speaker 2>Talk to us about this, yeah, I mean, one of

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<v Speaker 2>the kind of frustrations I have about evolutionary biology is

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<v Speaker 2>often when people talk about it, they emphasize this kind

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<v Speaker 2>of raw and rugged individualism where everybody's out for themselves.

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<v Speaker 2>Dog eat dog, the dog eat dog. It's that kind

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<v Speaker 2>of world. And actually, one of the beautiful things about

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<v Speaker 2>us as humans and animals like dogs, elephants, and whales

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<v Speaker 2>especially is that our survival is completely dependent on our community,

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<v Speaker 2>and so we have evolved to be incredibly caring and

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<v Speaker 2>incredibly altruistic, and this means that we will sacrifice ourselves

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<v Speaker 2>to help out our neighbors, our friends, our offspring. And

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<v Speaker 2>I investigated this looking at human baby but also looking

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<v Speaker 2>at different species, so mainly pilot and sperm whales, because

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<v Speaker 2>they're incredible examples of very caring communities. So pilot whales

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<v Speaker 2>and sperm whales they babysit for each other, so they'll

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<v Speaker 2>look after each other's kids when they're you know, off

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<v Speaker 2>diving hunting for squeeeds, I know, and in some sperm

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<v Speaker 2>whale groups, because sperm whales, like humans, they have different

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<v Speaker 2>cultures and so some sperm whales have some babysitting arrangements

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<v Speaker 2>that differ to other sperm whales, which is incredible. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>some if you're in one community of sperm whales, you

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<v Speaker 2>might be more likely to be looked after by a

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<v Speaker 2>family member, whereas you might be more likely to be

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<v Speaker 2>looked after by a more distant relation in another one.

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<v Speaker 2>It's fascinating. And sperm whales will even suckle each other's young,

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<v Speaker 2>so you know, they'll share real physical resources with each other.

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<v Speaker 2>And this is an incredible way that helps them survive

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<v Speaker 2>in the world, and it helps them live lives.

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<v Speaker 1>That thrive and yeah, in a very.

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<v Speaker 2>Dangerous place in the open ocean. But it does have

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<v Speaker 2>this kind of other side effect, which means that sometimes

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<v Speaker 2>their social relationships can make it hard when they're, say

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<v Speaker 2>in a mass stranding event, because it can be very

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<v Speaker 2>hard to get whales off the beach if they've got

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<v Speaker 2>their loved ones still on the beach. Sense. Yeah, and

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<v Speaker 2>with humans, you know, we're the same. We will, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>go into danger to look after those that we love.

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<v Speaker 2>And one of the really heartening things I found in

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<v Speaker 2>the book found researching the book, and it's a fairly

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<v Speaker 2>well known thing, but I think it's always worth repeating,

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<v Speaker 2>is that in times of crisis, so say after a

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<v Speaker 2>bush fire or you know, after some catastrophic event, levels

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<v Speaker 2>of pro social behavior so people helping other people increase massively,

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<v Speaker 2>And we're often told to kind of worry about things

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<v Speaker 2>like looting or crime, but actually when things are tough,

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<v Speaker 2>that's when our really, really good behavior comes out. And

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<v Speaker 2>that's an incredible thing to know about humanity because things

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<v Speaker 2>can look a bit dire sometimes, so it's I think

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<v Speaker 2>really important to look at our legacy of care and

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<v Speaker 2>how community care and caring for those that were related

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<v Speaker 2>to and those that we're not related to has helped

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<v Speaker 2>us survive and look to that past for inspiration, but

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<v Speaker 2>also to understand ourselves as caring beings. And there are

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<v Speaker 2>some fantastic researchers that are looking at that how that's

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<v Speaker 2>operating now in species like whales, but also in human cultures,

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<v Speaker 2>so you know, all the way from Massi warriors in

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<v Speaker 2>Africa and Kenya to ranchers out in the US who

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<v Speaker 2>are looking after their neighbors, and the kind of similarities

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<v Speaker 2>in the way we care for each other that are

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<v Speaker 2>very interesting cross culturally.

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<v Speaker 1>So Thank you for coming on.

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<v Speaker 2>Healthy Is No Worries.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, if you want answers to some of life's big questions,

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<v Speaker 1>like some of the ones we just chatted about, grab

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<v Speaker 1>Zoe's book. It is called Why Are We Like This?

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<v Speaker 1>It is out now. Make sure listening to her on

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<v Speaker 1>Extra Healthy Ish anything else. Head to Body andsoul dot com.

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<v Speaker 1>That are you can follow us on social media. You

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<v Speaker 1>can grab me at Felicity Harley as well. Make sure

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<v Speaker 1>you check out our print edition which is annually called

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<v Speaker 1>Sunday Paper. Thanks again for tuning into this podcast, and

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<v Speaker 1>of course stay healthy.