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Speaker 1: Story that right now is causing mass outrage and fair

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Speaker 1: enough to yeah, is that involving Alisha Schiller. Alisha Schiller

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Speaker 1: is a convicted murderer. She's serving time for the death

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Speaker 1: of Tyrrel Gentle. She was murdered in front of her

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Speaker 1: son for fifty dollars. It was a dispute over fifty bucks.

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Speaker 1: And it's now merged that this woman, Alisia Schiller, is

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Speaker 1: undergoing treatment for IVF while in prison.

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Speaker 2: So she's allowed to leave the prison and do her

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Speaker 2: IVF treatment, which is self funded, she's paying for it,

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Speaker 2: and then come back to the prison. So there's corrections

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Speaker 2: officers taking her to these appointments or using resources. We're

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Speaker 2: sure we're not paying for the IVF, but we're using

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Speaker 2: resources for this woman to be able to access this

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Speaker 2: treatment and then to become a mother. Or she's serving

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Speaker 2: time for murdering another mother in front of her own children.

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Speaker 1: Ye, disputed over fifty decks appalling.

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Speaker 3: Plus the fact that a child then would be born

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Speaker 3: into the system.

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Speaker 2: Which happens, right, because some people do end up incarcerated

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Speaker 2: when they are pregnant.

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Speaker 3: Well, I want to bring in Tim Watson Munroe. You're

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Speaker 3: trying to get a hit around.

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Speaker 4: It's crazy, it's horrendous.

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Speaker 3: He is a criminal psychologist. He's also the host of

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Speaker 3: Motive and Method, a true crime podcast. Tim, thanks for

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Speaker 3: joining us. Is she like, I'm a parent of three kids, right,

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Speaker 3: and I know my job is to teach them right

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Speaker 3: from wrong. I find I'm trying to get my head

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Speaker 3: around that we're going to let this lady go from

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Speaker 3: jail to become a mum to then try and teach

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Speaker 3: a child right from wrong. Right she got the ability

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Speaker 3: to do that?

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Speaker 4: She fit to be a mother.

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Speaker 5: Firstly, Well, I've not examined her, but I've made this comment.

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Speaker 5: We've come a long way from the days of the

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Speaker 5: galleys were executed for murder. Yeah, we now have a

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Speaker 5: situation based on a Supreme Court finding that prisoners have

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Speaker 5: the right to access private curl Personally speaking in general principles,

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Speaker 5: I understand the artrage in the community. This was a

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Speaker 5: horrendous crime involving the murder, stating murder of the mother

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Speaker 5: with three children, with a four year old child present

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Speaker 5: at the time. So I guess it's a balancing decision

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Speaker 5: of our rehabilitation versus punishment. My view in terms of

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Speaker 5: the question raised is what sort of environment would a

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Speaker 5: child be exposed to being raised for the first five

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Speaker 5: to six years in a prison. Years ago, I was

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Speaker 5: a psychologist at Paramount of Jail. I was involved in

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Speaker 5: the Mother and Babies program then that related to women

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Speaker 5: who went into prison when pregnant and they were allowed

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Speaker 5: to keep the child about twelve months before child went

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Speaker 5: into the community. Who are talking here five to six

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Speaker 5: years of child rearing in a maximum security jail? As

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Speaker 5: you write point out, the taxpayer bears the brand for that.

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Speaker 3: Is it even safe for the child?

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Speaker 4: Sorry to cut you off. I understand.

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Speaker 2: I believe in second chances, I really do, but there's

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Speaker 2: limits to that. And I understand women who go into

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Speaker 2: prison who are pregnant and who are obviously in that position,

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Speaker 2: and they have the right absolutely to have that child.

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Speaker 2: But to take someone out of prison and allow them

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Speaker 2: to do this while they're serving a sentence for murdering

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Speaker 2: somebody else, I'm sorry, you've lost your right to be

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Speaker 2: allowed to do this.

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Speaker 5: If you ask me, well, I think it beggars belief.

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Speaker 5: And you know, is it going to open the gates

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Speaker 5: for Rawt Central where everyone says, well, look, I'll find

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Speaker 5: the money to do this, I'll have an IVF program,

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Speaker 5: or if you're a bloke, you have some sort of

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Speaker 5: treatment of a sectomy reversals based lifts. Where do you

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Speaker 5: draw the line?

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Speaker 3: Exactly right? Exactly right?

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Speaker 5: I think the message it sends is, well, there's two things.

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Speaker 5: I mean, my heart goes out to the family of

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Speaker 5: the victim. They are justifiably outraged by this. You have

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Speaker 5: three children deprived of a mother, one little boy who's

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Speaker 5: deprived of both parents because his father died shortly before

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Speaker 5: his mother was murdered, the parents of the deceased and

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Speaker 5: so on. They would feel that this is a real

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Speaker 5: slap in the face. And I think in general terms,

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Speaker 5: people are in victoria wondering what's going on with law

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Speaker 5: and order.

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Speaker 3: Tim will leave it there. Tim Watson on the criminal

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Speaker 3: psychologist and the host of Motive and Method True Crime.

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Speaker 1: Thanks Tim, and look thirteen twenty four to ten. If

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Speaker 1: you want to get involved, to you and weigh in

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Speaker 1: on this topic, because it is a very controversial one.

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Speaker 1: We talk about the privileges that come with being a parent.

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Speaker 1: Surely you don't get afforded those privileges if you've taken

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Speaker 1: somebody else's life. Right now, Jim and Avonne Gentle are

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Speaker 1: the mum and dad of Tyrrell, who did lose her

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Speaker 1: life at this convicted killer. They had a word on

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Speaker 1: the Today Show a short time ago and a message

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Speaker 1: for the government.

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Speaker 6: Wake cap, you know, do the right thing for a change.

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Speaker 6: You know, think of think of your people, do what's right.

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Speaker 6: Don't be giving privileges to criminals. I mean, there's plenty

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Speaker 6: of people out there that deserve much better that I

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Speaker 6: just deserve to be listened to and heard, and here

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Speaker 6: you are paying your attention to criminals.

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Speaker 1: Now, just pointing out a bit of backstory to which

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Speaker 1: Tim alluded to. This isn't so much a government decision.

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Speaker 1: This is a right afforded because of a Supreme Court

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Speaker 1: decision dating back fifteen years ago, which basically gives prisoners

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Speaker 1: the right to private healthcare and ivf F in the

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Speaker 1: private healthcare.

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Speaker 2: Where do you draw the long that's like what you said,

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Speaker 2: He's like, do we let people get facelifts?

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Speaker 1: Exactly?

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Speaker 3: And I'll tell you what. I am yet to talk

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Speaker 3: to someone about this story that thinks she should be

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Speaker 3: allowed out to do it.

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Speaker 2: And forgive me if I'm wrong, But I had people

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Speaker 2: tell me yesterday that a lot of people.

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Speaker 4: I don't know if it's everyone. You have to do

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Speaker 4: police checked after IVF.

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Speaker 3: We one of our kids is IVF.

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Speaker 4: And did you have to do a police check? So

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Speaker 4: what on earth is going on?

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Speaker 3: I don't get it, Lauren, how you.

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Speaker 4: Fourteen twenty fourteen. I think I think.

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Speaker 2: Melbourne is just absolutely outraged by this. Jase, Like you said,

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Speaker 2: I don't know a single person who THINKSIST is a

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Speaker 2: just system.

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Speaker 3: Not at all. If you'd like to join the show,

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Speaker 3: fine lines are open. Tim, Thanks very much for your time,

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Speaker 3: and our thoughts go out to the victim's family and also.

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Speaker 2: You've got to relive all of all of their lot

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Speaker 2: they went through all those years ago.

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Speaker 1: Now a lot of people.

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Speaker 3: Trying to have babies. It's it's a bloody emotional time.

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Speaker 3: I've been through it. It can be horrible and this

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Speaker 3: should be triggering for them as well. He's his lady,

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Speaker 3: you know, being afforded the luxury of getting out of

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Speaker 3: jail to go onto it.

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Speaker 6: Ye.

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Speaker 1: Tyrrell's son spoke in the heald Son today. You know

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Speaker 1: he doesn't have a mum.

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Speaker 3: Yeah exactly.

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Speaker 1: You know that's that's that's the lot belonging to the

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Speaker 1: short of it.

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Speaker 4: It's is wrong.

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Speaker 3: It is just go on four to eight. That's the

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Speaker 3: news story that Melbourne is talking about this morning, Clint.

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Speaker 1: That's right. Alicia Shilla is her name. She's currently serving

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Speaker 1: a prison sentence for murdering a poor young woman, a

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Speaker 1: young Melbourne woman. We were joined a short time ago

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Speaker 1: by a criminologist who had this to say about the case.

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Speaker 5: Well, I think it beggars belief. And you know it

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Speaker 5: was a game to open the gates for raw central,

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Speaker 5: where everyone says, well, look, I'll find the money to

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Speaker 5: do this. I'll have an IVF program, or if you're

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Speaker 5: a bloke, it has some sort of treatment of exectomy

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Speaker 5: reversals based lifts. Where do you draw the line?

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Speaker 3: Exactly right, that's the question.

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Speaker 4: This woman's in prison for murdering another young.

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Speaker 1: Mum, tyrone and gentle.

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Speaker 2: While she's serving time for murdering that woman, she has

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Speaker 2: been allowed the privilege of leaving prison to undergo IVF treatment.

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Speaker 2: Gott I think six years remaining on her sentence, So

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Speaker 2: if she falls pregnant, she'll have a baby in prison.

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Speaker 2: The baby will be taken off her after a year,

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Speaker 2: I think. Or does a baby get brought up in prison, not.

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Speaker 4: Sure either way.

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Speaker 2: There's a mother, a grieving mother and father out there

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Speaker 2: who have had their child taken from them, and three

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Speaker 2: children who have been left without a mother.

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Speaker 4: Because of this. It's a horrific story to rage.

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Speaker 3: Chat with someone that thinks it should be allowed. We're

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Speaker 3: about to go to the phones because Melbourne wants to

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Speaker 3: talk about it. But just remember a lot of kids

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Speaker 3: in cars heading to school at this time as well,

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Speaker 3: So just let's go to Nicole and Dorain. Nicole, what's

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Speaker 3: your thoughts?

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Speaker 1: You go?

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Speaker 7: I was just, you know, just a bit of I

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Speaker 7: don't know, subergast that you could see. My husband and

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Speaker 7: I went through IBS for our two daughters. First one,

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Speaker 7: everything was okay. Second one, we had to go through

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Speaker 7: and have a police check downe and everything to make

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Speaker 7: sure that obviously we were going to be suitable to

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Speaker 7: raise a child. So this is holding to the world everything.

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Speaker 7: And the funny thing is my husband's actually a police officer.

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Speaker 7: I was like, then had to go and obviously check

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Speaker 7: him to make sure he's suitable, but yet he's been

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Speaker 7: in the police force for thirty odd years.

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Speaker 2: So you have to go and do a police This

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Speaker 2: is what I don't understand because Jace, you were saying

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Speaker 2: you went through the same you have to do a

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Speaker 2: police check. Yeah, this woman's in prison, found guilty in charge,

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Speaker 2: so murder.

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Speaker 1: So Jace, what did they tell you? What's that police

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Speaker 1: check for?

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Speaker 3: It's like getting it's like any of working with children's card.

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Speaker 3: It's basically it's like looking at your history if you

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Speaker 3: don't evolent, which isn't exactly right now, but exactly what

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Speaker 3: Nicole said, it's basically your.

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Speaker 1: Ability to become a to bring a child into this world.

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Speaker 3: And I can see now if she's past hers, then

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Speaker 3: I think we have to put a question over the

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Speaker 3: bluddy police check. Lucy and Seaford, you think you know

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Speaker 3: the reason, or you hit the nail on the head

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Speaker 3: here with another reason why she might want to have

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Speaker 3: a baby.

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Speaker 8: I do.

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Speaker 9: I think that she's worked out that the women in

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Speaker 9: the mother baby units for getting better treatment than the

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Speaker 9: general population in a prison, and she's, you know, she's

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Speaker 9: going to have this baby and then she's going to

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Speaker 9: get the better treatment for almost the remainder of her sentence. Yeah,

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Speaker 9: I feel she doesn't care that this baby is going

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Speaker 9: to get taken away from her in five to six

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Speaker 9: years or that it's going to end up in foster care.

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Speaker 9: She's looking at herself and that she wants better treatment

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Speaker 9: for near the rest of percentage.

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Speaker 1: So I assume she's serving time at Dame Phyllis Frost's,

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Speaker 1: which is a high security women's prison, and I assume

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Speaker 1: also they have a mother's and baby's.

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Speaker 9: Unit they were, and obviously they get better treatment because

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Speaker 9: there's children involved, and she's just looking for a bit

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Speaker 9: of a luxury life for the remainder of persentence.

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Speaker 2: Well, she's also allowed out of the prison to go

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Speaker 2: and like she's under guard under what But she's allowed

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Speaker 2: out of the prison to go and undergo this treatment.

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Speaker 2: And like we were talking about before, understandably, prisoners are

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Speaker 2: allowed the right to private health, but there's got to

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Speaker 2: be some common sense that prevails.

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Speaker 3: Jessica in Ringwood, Good morning, welcome to the show.

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Speaker 8: Good morning.

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Speaker 1: Are you are yes?

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Speaker 8: So I'm just ringing. I this has really struck hard

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Speaker 8: to me. I actually cannot believe that it's going on,

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Speaker 8: to be honest, So I personally have experienced the broken

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Speaker 8: youth mental health system in Victoria as well as the

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Speaker 8: department foster care system. So my son had a mental

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Speaker 8: health breakdown about two years ago, and then he was

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Speaker 8: taken out of our care because he was deemed too

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Speaker 8: unsafe for my other two children.

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Speaker 7: Wow.

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Speaker 8: So then from that point where for two years have

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Speaker 8: been battling getting the help that he requires, mixed with

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Speaker 8: being housed in a situation that he's suitable for him,

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Speaker 8: which has been virtually impossible because there's not enough funding

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Speaker 8: in either system, in the foster care system or in

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Speaker 8: the mental health system for child and youth. So with that,

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Speaker 8: I then sim well, I'm you know, an average person

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Speaker 8: that works, you know, works herself to the bone to

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Speaker 8: make them happened, but cannot access what my own children

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Speaker 8: need to their detriment. And then there's this woman who, yes,

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Speaker 8: she can afford to have IVS, but it's a little

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Speaker 8: long term costed or associated with a mil Kyle is

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Speaker 8: going to need mental health help regardless of whether she's

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Speaker 8: placed with chin Chit Care foster care. This is not

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Speaker 8: a normal situation.

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Speaker 3: No, it isn't.

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Speaker 1: And look, we keep talking about and probably getting back

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Speaker 1: to the fact that becoming a parent and parenthood is

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Speaker 1: a privilege, right, and it's something that so many people

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Speaker 1: fight so long and so hard for and the moment

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Speaker 1: that she took somebody else's life, that privilege should have

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Speaker 1: been stripped from her, especially while she's serving time in prison.

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Speaker 2: Well, she's serving time, she's lost that right to do

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Speaker 2: things that free, good citizens have access to.

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Speaker 3: As a dad of three young kids, I take it

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Speaker 3: very serious that my job is to teach kids, my

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Speaker 3: three kids, what is right and what is wrong. And

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Speaker 3: I think that's a pretty hard job to do when

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Speaker 3: you are in jail for murder.

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Speaker 4: Mm hmmm.

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Speaker 2: Look, I'm a big believer in second chances. I absolutely will.

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Speaker 2: But when you're in prison serving time for taking someone

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Speaker 2: else's life.

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Speaker 1: Once she's rehabilitated and back in the community, you know

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Speaker 1: your rights are restored. Yes, you know, But.

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Speaker 4: Right now, I'm sorry. The system is broken.

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Speaker 2: If this is being allowed, it's a Pauling's it's appalling.

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Speaker 3: It is just gone nine past eight. Thank you very

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Speaker 3: much for your calls. Any updates to the story, We'll

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Speaker 3: obviously getting on the air for you here on nov.

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Speaker 2: Jason Lauren Jason Lauren Wake Up Feeling Good on Nomber

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Speaker 2: one hundred.

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Speaker 4: Lauren on Socials