WEBVTT - Life Inside a Cult 0:00:00.320 --> 0:00:03.400 We'd like to acknowledge that traditional custodians of the land 0:00:03.480 --> 0:00:06.840 on which this podcast was produced the Gadigl people of 0:00:06.920 --> 0:00:10.440 the orination. We pay our respects to Elder's past and present. 0:00:11.400 --> 0:00:15.319 This episode contains discussions of physical and emotional abuse and 0:00:15.400 --> 0:00:19.079 coercive control. If this raises any issues for youth support 0:00:19.160 --> 0:00:21.520 is available through the links and phone numbers in the 0:00:21.560 --> 0:00:22.120 show notes. 0:00:23.760 --> 0:00:26.759 It's nineteen ninety six and we're at a wellness festival 0:00:26.840 --> 0:00:28.360 in Sydney. 0:00:29.080 --> 0:00:32.560 We're here with Carl McConkey. After she made the last 0:00:32.560 --> 0:00:36.160 minute decision to head along and see what it's all about. 0:00:37.200 --> 0:00:40.279 She strolls past the stand and is handed a brochure. 0:00:41.040 --> 0:00:43.360 It's for a course that promises to help her reach 0:00:43.680 --> 0:00:48.559 her full potential in all aspects of life. Carly's been 0:00:48.560 --> 0:00:52.360 feeling lost and thinks this encounter could be it the 0:00:52.479 --> 0:00:56.440 sign she's been searching for. With hope in her heart, 0:00:56.600 --> 0:01:01.480 she excitedly signs up for the course. What Carly doesn't 0:01:01.520 --> 0:01:05.000 realize is that this will become the first step into 0:01:05.040 --> 0:01:08.840 the descent of a cult. This cult is where she's 0:01:08.880 --> 0:01:11.240 spent the next thirteen years. 0:01:11.000 --> 0:01:11.640 Of her life. 0:01:14.720 --> 0:01:18.640 I'm at Middleton and this is head Game Today a 0:01:18.760 --> 0:01:25.680 story of mind control and resilience on the road to recovery. 0:01:27.880 --> 0:01:32.880 Carlie McConkey, Welcome to head Game. Your mindset has been manipulated. 0:01:32.959 --> 0:01:35.800 You've taken control of it. It's been taken charge of 0:01:35.920 --> 0:01:39.479 It's fascinating because you were a brainwash, let's say, into 0:01:39.520 --> 0:01:40.080 a cult. 0:01:40.240 --> 0:01:42.000 But take me back to the very beginning. 0:01:42.120 --> 0:01:45.240 So I'm twenty one years old. I graduated, you know 0:01:45.360 --> 0:01:47.000 even I think it was March that I got my 0:01:47.040 --> 0:01:50.400 graduation certificate. And then in the May, it was one 0:01:50.400 --> 0:01:54.480 Sunday afternoon. I'd been having a sleep and I just 0:01:55.240 --> 0:01:56.840 saw in the newspaper that the first of all was 0:01:56.880 --> 0:01:59.160 on you know, it was on a story newspaper. Yeah, 0:01:59.560 --> 0:02:02.880 click exactly. It was three o'clock in the afternoon. I thought, okay, 0:02:02.920 --> 0:02:05.080 I'm going to go and have a psyche reading. So 0:02:05.120 --> 0:02:07.400 I went straight there, got the psyche reading, sat down 0:02:07.480 --> 0:02:11.520 with this lady. She was lovely told, gave me the reading, 0:02:11.600 --> 0:02:13.440 and then she said, you know what you need to do. 0:02:13.600 --> 0:02:16.200 You need to do this personal development course. It's called 0:02:16.240 --> 0:02:18.480 the next Evolutionary Step. You only have to do this 0:02:18.600 --> 0:02:20.840 one course. It will give you all the tools to 0:02:21.160 --> 0:02:27.280 enable you to reach your potential, find your direction, you know, destress, 0:02:27.480 --> 0:02:31.080 have health and well bank, build better relationships. So she said, okay, 0:02:31.160 --> 0:02:33.320 she gave me the brochure and the little package and 0:02:33.440 --> 0:02:34.840 directed me to the stand. 0:02:35.360 --> 0:02:37.760 So this is sounds like a bit of a behind 0:02:37.800 --> 0:02:40.760 the scenes work here. So definitely this was all pre 0:02:40.800 --> 0:02:43.480 emptied from that spiritual. 0:02:42.880 --> 0:02:46.080 Reading exactly and pretty like in hindsight, obviously she was 0:02:46.080 --> 0:02:49.359 recruiting me. That was the recruitment method, and she was 0:02:49.400 --> 0:02:50.080 part of the cult. 0:02:50.360 --> 0:02:53.239 Wow, so they've gone deep into you, answered a few 0:02:53.320 --> 0:02:56.560 questions probably this is amazing, you know, this is where 0:02:56.600 --> 0:02:57.400 I need to be there. 0:02:57.440 --> 0:03:00.000 This is where I thought it was a sign is yeah. 0:03:00.080 --> 0:03:02.919 Yeah, so that step into when they took you were just. 0:03:02.880 --> 0:03:07.760 Like sold straight away. And then so I went up 0:03:07.800 --> 0:03:09.680 to the stand. So all the smiling people, you know, 0:03:09.720 --> 0:03:12.280 looking healthy and vibrant and that type of thing. You know, 0:03:12.360 --> 0:03:14.320 there's kind of that love bombing that you hear about. 0:03:14.840 --> 0:03:17.680 And then what happened was they said there was a 0:03:17.680 --> 0:03:22.880 free stage one seminar at the Hilton Hotel. Okay, so 0:03:23.200 --> 0:03:25.240 I took my mom, yeah, and my sister to the 0:03:25.280 --> 0:03:29.359 Hilton Hotel. You know who is now we realize the 0:03:29.400 --> 0:03:32.480 cult leader, the head of the company. She stood at 0:03:32.480 --> 0:03:34.840 the front. She's like less than five foot tall. She was, 0:03:34.880 --> 0:03:37.920 you know, slim and trim and fit, very charismatic and 0:03:38.080 --> 0:03:40.560 was just walking across the stage talking about, you know, 0:03:40.640 --> 0:03:43.240 what the program would do. She had people who had 0:03:43.240 --> 0:03:45.920 completed the program stand at the front do testimonials. They 0:03:45.920 --> 0:03:48.720 were all smiling and you know, all that type of thing, 0:03:48.880 --> 0:03:51.280 and then you know, I was already sold, but then 0:03:51.320 --> 0:03:53.840 I signed up straight away. My mom and my sister 0:03:53.880 --> 0:03:56.040 actually did do the first program with me. That was 0:03:56.120 --> 0:04:00.680 at McRory University. Okay, so you know, these locations are 0:04:00.680 --> 0:04:03.440 all very above board. You think everything's fine. It's just 0:04:03.480 --> 0:04:06.840 a personal development company. You're doing this course to better yourself. 0:04:07.080 --> 0:04:09.520 So that was on a Thursday night, Friday night, all 0:04:09.560 --> 0:04:10.720 weekend and Monday night. 0:04:11.480 --> 0:04:13.560 So intense it was. 0:04:13.320 --> 0:04:15.840 It was it was a case of not giving you 0:04:15.920 --> 0:04:19.360 much time to think from the reading into the hills 0:04:19.520 --> 0:04:20.719 and then bang, bang bang it. 0:04:21.040 --> 0:04:23.760 That was early July for you know, you engulfed in it. 0:04:23.960 --> 0:04:27.839 Exactly exactly clever, Yes it is. And that particular course, 0:04:28.040 --> 0:04:31.920 we were vegan and we would get up early. We 0:04:31.920 --> 0:04:35.279 were given sort of exercises to do meditation, listen to 0:04:35.320 --> 0:04:38.200 her on a meditation tape. Every night, we had homework, 0:04:38.200 --> 0:04:40.400 we had to write down our dreams, we had to 0:04:40.960 --> 0:04:43.479 juice fresh juice every morning, that type of thing. So 0:04:43.560 --> 0:04:45.880 you'd literally get up at seven and you wouldn't even 0:04:45.920 --> 0:04:47.680 finish the course to like ten, and then it had 0:04:47.720 --> 0:04:50.000 to go home do all this stuff. So sleep deprivation 0:04:50.160 --> 0:04:54.880 already started, food deprivation already started. And the ultimate thing. 0:04:54.960 --> 0:04:57.960 Her premise was that we were cleansing our cellular memory 0:04:58.360 --> 0:05:02.840 from this lifetime, lifetimes and our ancestors, and we had 0:05:02.880 --> 0:05:04.840 to do a lot of emotional release. So there was 0:05:04.880 --> 0:05:07.400 eighty people on that course and in this one room, 0:05:07.720 --> 0:05:10.520 really people, eighty people, and we were yelling and screaming 0:05:11.120 --> 0:05:13.760 and getting our anger out and rage, and you know, 0:05:13.800 --> 0:05:15.080 they said, okay, here's a pillow. 0:05:15.120 --> 0:05:15.919 He's a big black. 0:05:15.720 --> 0:05:18.839 Gymnastic mat, you know, the six x four foot gymnastic mats. 0:05:19.400 --> 0:05:21.520 We had to think of either our teacher, our parents, 0:05:21.560 --> 0:05:24.720 our siblings, whoever, and yell into the mat, punch and 0:05:24.920 --> 0:05:27.200 you know, yell and scream. So we had eighty people 0:05:27.240 --> 0:05:30.360 doing that, so complete sensory overload. And there was one 0:05:30.400 --> 0:05:32.479 point where I was hovering in the corner with my 0:05:32.560 --> 0:05:36.600 mom sort of hugging her like obviously distressed. And you know, 0:05:36.720 --> 0:05:39.240 the woman came, the cult leader as such, came up 0:05:39.320 --> 0:05:41.000 and said, you know, I think you need to take 0:05:41.040 --> 0:05:43.359 responsibility and move away from your mother and you know, 0:05:43.480 --> 0:05:45.040 take responsibility for yourself. 0:05:45.040 --> 0:05:45.560 It's happening. 0:05:45.720 --> 0:05:48.400 So it's already she's yeah, pushing me away from my 0:05:48.480 --> 0:05:49.440 mum and my family. 0:05:50.120 --> 0:05:50.440 Wow. 0:05:50.560 --> 0:05:56.200 So they're controlling your food, ye, your sleep, yes, your mind. Yes, 0:05:56.279 --> 0:05:58.400 they're not giving you even time to think for yourself. 0:05:58.440 --> 0:05:59.400 They're thinking for you. 0:05:59.520 --> 0:06:01.600 That that's right, the actioning stuff for you. 0:06:01.880 --> 0:06:04.400 Would you say that you were hugely before you went 0:06:04.480 --> 0:06:06.800 to that reading, were you and were you vulnerable? Do 0:06:06.839 --> 0:06:08.960 you think that you were still looking for yourself and 0:06:09.000 --> 0:06:11.200 they came in and you thought there'd be that that 0:06:11.400 --> 0:06:13.800 piece to the puzzle, right exactly, we complete you. 0:06:13.880 --> 0:06:14.240 Yeah. 0:06:14.279 --> 0:06:17.320 And I think because I was a very idealistic person, 0:06:17.560 --> 0:06:20.320 I had everything to give. I wanted to do something 0:06:20.320 --> 0:06:22.159 good in the world. I wanted to contribute, be of 0:06:22.200 --> 0:06:24.599 service in the world and do something big that would 0:06:25.120 --> 0:06:28.719 help in some way. And I think I was vulnerable 0:06:28.760 --> 0:06:31.280 and unfortunately what happens with cults, you're in the wrong 0:06:31.320 --> 0:06:34.000 place at the wrong time. I mean that was obviously 0:06:34.360 --> 0:06:35.240 what happened. 0:06:34.880 --> 0:06:36.719 In place at the right time, which she thought you 0:06:36.760 --> 0:06:38.000 were at the right place at the right time. 0:06:38.080 --> 0:06:38.840 That's exactly right. 0:06:38.920 --> 0:06:41.360 Yeah, Ultimately you weren't exactly that, you're at the wrong 0:06:41.360 --> 0:06:42.160 place at the wrong yeah. 0:06:42.600 --> 0:06:45.760 And I think something else important is that the woman 0:06:45.920 --> 0:06:48.760 who the founder, who was up the front, the charismatic 0:06:49.160 --> 0:06:52.440 we'll call a cult leader. Now, she it felt like 0:06:52.480 --> 0:06:54.520 she was psychic and she was reading you and knew 0:06:54.560 --> 0:06:56.600 everything about you. But the fact is is that we'd 0:06:56.600 --> 0:06:59.960 had to complete a background questionnaire all about our health, 0:07:00.160 --> 0:07:03.159 medical history. She and her there was a support team 0:07:03.200 --> 0:07:05.640 of about six people who were her You know, it's 0:07:05.680 --> 0:07:06.160 like a gang. 0:07:06.240 --> 0:07:09.600 Really, they're breaking all that information down. They know when 0:07:09.680 --> 0:07:11.720 they know when to you. They're running the course, they're 0:07:11.760 --> 0:07:14.160 running you, they're running your life. So they know we're 0:07:14.160 --> 0:07:15.720 going to use that on day four. 0:07:15.560 --> 0:07:20.560 For exactly exactly this type of exercise. And then you're like, wow, you. 0:07:20.480 --> 0:07:21.840 Know, how do they know that about me? 0:07:22.200 --> 0:07:22.840 Really working? 0:07:22.960 --> 0:07:25.760 There the blank gaps that I never knew were there, 0:07:25.840 --> 0:07:29.080 and now they're identifying new things. But ultimately they are 0:07:29.120 --> 0:07:31.880 they're doing the full takeover of your heart. 0:07:31.760 --> 0:07:35.080 Body, and mind. Spiritually as well. Yeah, so how long 0:07:35.160 --> 0:07:37.680 was this? Did this course go on for? How long? 0:07:38.200 --> 0:07:42.280 So I went to the site reading in the May. 0:07:42.480 --> 0:07:44.600 I believe that the free stage one seminar was in 0:07:44.600 --> 0:07:47.200 the June, and I did the next evolutionary step in 0:07:47.200 --> 0:07:49.760 the early July. And as soon as that finished. At 0:07:49.800 --> 0:07:52.240 the end of that program, you learn that there's seventeen 0:07:52.320 --> 0:07:55.480 other courses that you can do, and you know their 0:07:55.520 --> 0:07:58.240 week long weekends, a year long course, this type of thing. 0:07:58.600 --> 0:08:00.920 And because you've been in I'm to overload. You know, 0:08:00.920 --> 0:08:03.120 you've been vegan for most of that course. You're on 0:08:03.160 --> 0:08:05.480 a high, but you've still you've just opened up all 0:08:05.480 --> 0:08:09.280 of this trauma and everything, and so you're feeling so unsettled, 0:08:09.360 --> 0:08:11.880 and you know, she says to keep sort of integrating 0:08:11.920 --> 0:08:14.640 and evolving or enlightning, you know, you have to keep going. 0:08:15.080 --> 0:08:16.600 And so then it's like, okay, well I have to 0:08:16.640 --> 0:08:19.280 keep going. So I signed on to the September cost 0:08:19.280 --> 0:08:22.480 which was a weekend course which was all about funnily enough, 0:08:22.480 --> 0:08:25.320 talking to you, you know, climbing a mountain. Mountain warning 0:08:25.880 --> 0:08:28.960 a lot lower than Everest, but you know you had groups, 0:08:29.200 --> 0:08:32.160 the top group, the second group, and third group, et cetera. 0:08:32.280 --> 0:08:34.720 I went in the second group because I thought, you know, oh, 0:08:35.040 --> 0:08:36.400 I really want to be in the top group, but 0:08:36.440 --> 0:08:39.000 I'm not really sure. And then I ended up making 0:08:39.000 --> 0:08:41.600 it to the top group anyway. But then when I 0:08:41.640 --> 0:08:44.680 got back, she humiliated me and this other girl in 0:08:44.720 --> 0:08:46.360 front of everyone. I think there was eighty people in 0:08:46.400 --> 0:08:48.520 that one just calling me, you know, a black cloud 0:08:48.559 --> 0:08:50.040 on the mountain and all this because I was trying 0:08:50.040 --> 0:08:51.600 to make it up the top. It's a long story, 0:08:51.960 --> 0:08:54.640 but so you know, she humulated me in front of everyone. 0:08:54.720 --> 0:08:56.559 So I'm like, oh, I'm a bad person. I need 0:08:56.600 --> 0:08:58.600 to keep going, you know, that type of thing. That 0:08:58.720 --> 0:09:01.200 was September. I saw on to the next course, which 0:09:01.320 --> 0:09:05.240 was October, which was an eight day, seven night course. 0:09:05.280 --> 0:09:07.360 And I think this is probably the most important to 0:09:07.400 --> 0:09:10.520 reflect how in one small space of time you can 0:09:10.600 --> 0:09:12.720 utilize all those what we call thought reform and mind 0:09:12.760 --> 0:09:13.560 control techniques. 0:09:14.120 --> 0:09:17.800 So yeah, mind control techniques because they're very very clever 0:09:17.880 --> 0:09:20.280 at what they do, right, definitely very clever as well 0:09:20.880 --> 0:09:24.120 just making you feel bring you up and knocking you 0:09:24.160 --> 0:09:26.520 back down, making you feel worse. It's going to have 0:09:26.600 --> 0:09:27.720 to keep you in that system. 0:09:27.760 --> 0:09:28.280 Absolutely. 0:09:28.320 --> 0:09:30.400 So this this seven go back to this sounday, course, this. 0:09:30.360 --> 0:09:32.720 Sounds yeah, it is very interesting. 0:09:32.840 --> 0:09:35.720 So what happened was so this we all met at 0:09:35.960 --> 0:09:39.679 Queensland University campus. We went into a big hole there 0:09:40.280 --> 0:09:42.679 and we'd had a list of things that we had 0:09:42.720 --> 0:09:45.240 to bring and you're not supposed to tell anyone about 0:09:45.240 --> 0:09:48.040 the courses that you've done, absolutely anything about them. The 0:09:48.200 --> 0:09:50.600 lady said, you know, keep an open mind and all 0:09:50.640 --> 0:09:52.560 of this, and you know, if you find out what's 0:09:52.559 --> 0:09:54.480 in the course then that's going to block you with 0:09:54.679 --> 0:09:57.000 being open, et cetera. So we had this list of 0:09:57.000 --> 0:10:00.000 things we need to bring and basically we got in there. 0:10:00.880 --> 0:10:03.360 She's standing up the front with her six support teams, 0:10:03.400 --> 0:10:06.760 you know, black cat, white and black clothes and just 0:10:07.000 --> 0:10:11.120 blank faces. They started sort of basically verbally abusing us, 0:10:11.160 --> 0:10:13.240 telling us we're not allowed to go to the toilet 0:10:13.400 --> 0:10:17.720 unless we have permission. They took off our id wallets, watches, 0:10:17.800 --> 0:10:19.800 all that type of thing, all of a sudden, wearing 0:10:19.840 --> 0:10:22.360 complete fear. The premise of that program was to move 0:10:22.360 --> 0:10:25.800 through your fear. Right, we were completely terrified and we'd 0:10:25.800 --> 0:10:27.680 already had to wait hours to go in, so that 0:10:27.800 --> 0:10:31.839 was anxiety building. We were in there for hours and yeah, 0:10:31.880 --> 0:10:34.640 just basically being verbally abused, etc. We were walked out 0:10:34.679 --> 0:10:37.800 eventually late in the night and onto a big coach 0:10:37.920 --> 0:10:41.000 bus and all the windows were blackened out. Then we 0:10:41.000 --> 0:10:42.720 were taken for hours. We didn't have a watch, so 0:10:42.800 --> 0:10:45.200 we didn't know what time it was we got down. 0:10:47.800 --> 0:10:50.280 I know she's tried to say now that it's just 0:10:50.360 --> 0:10:53.800 like survival courses and you know, and whatever, but you know, 0:10:53.880 --> 0:10:55.720 we didn't choose to do all of this, so that's 0:10:55.720 --> 0:10:58.840 the difference. So then we got out on this completely 0:10:58.880 --> 0:11:02.040 isolated property in the morning and we had to line 0:11:02.080 --> 0:11:04.320 up in lines, and yeah, there was all these verbal 0:11:04.679 --> 0:11:07.320 assaults and things, and we had to keep bringing up 0:11:07.360 --> 0:11:09.440 issues with each other. As I said, we weren't allowed 0:11:09.440 --> 0:11:11.199 to go to the toilet. There was three portaloos and 0:11:11.240 --> 0:11:14.080 we only had like five minutes and there were seventy 0:11:14.480 --> 0:11:17.559 people on that one. And this was nineteen ninety six, 0:11:17.920 --> 0:11:19.319 and we all had to go to the toilet within 0:11:19.360 --> 0:11:21.079 five minutes, and if you didn't, you know, you had 0:11:21.080 --> 0:11:21.400 to wait. 0:11:21.520 --> 0:11:23.160 You never knew when you could go to the toilet. 0:11:23.400 --> 0:11:25.320 We were in a marquis for hours and hours. She 0:11:25.480 --> 0:11:28.439 was lecturing us about all these things. We only had 0:11:28.520 --> 0:11:31.480 like around two hours sleep a night. We went with 0:11:31.520 --> 0:11:34.000 that food for over twenty four hours. We were in 0:11:34.000 --> 0:11:36.600 tents with two people, and you know, sometime they'd take 0:11:36.640 --> 0:11:38.480 the tents away and just do. 0:11:38.480 --> 0:11:40.320 All these weird and really messing with. 0:11:40.240 --> 0:11:41.520 You, all, totally messing with our head. 0:11:41.559 --> 0:11:43.680 We complete just smashing you back down. 0:11:43.760 --> 0:11:46.800 And yeah, and we didn't you know, we couldn't trust 0:11:46.800 --> 0:11:49.720 anyone obviously, because you'd have people bring up issues with 0:11:49.760 --> 0:11:51.640 you all the time and all that type of thing. 0:11:51.800 --> 0:11:53.800 And then like in the morning, we'd have to go 0:11:53.840 --> 0:11:55.559 for a run every morning, and then we'd have to 0:11:55.640 --> 0:11:59.080 jump into this pond, murky pond naked. I know, it 0:11:59.120 --> 0:12:02.440 sounds terrible, and it was weird. It is, I know 0:12:02.520 --> 0:12:04.559 it is. So we had to stay in the pond 0:12:04.600 --> 0:12:06.360 and we couldn't get out until she said so. And 0:12:06.400 --> 0:12:08.800 if someone took a while to get into the pond, 0:12:08.920 --> 0:12:10.920 that just prolonged the time. And we were in the 0:12:10.960 --> 0:12:13.440 pond for we don't know how long. And then in 0:12:13.480 --> 0:12:15.960 the Marquee late at night. You know, I don't really 0:12:16.000 --> 0:12:18.959 like talking about it, but she was showing us pornography 0:12:19.360 --> 0:12:23.120 and on the TV, like it's totally weird. And there 0:12:23.160 --> 0:12:24.760 was one stage where We had to stand up on 0:12:24.800 --> 0:12:27.760 a stage naked in front of like seventy people from 0:12:27.840 --> 0:12:30.920 the age of you know, seventeen eighteen to you know, eighty, 0:12:31.360 --> 0:12:33.439 and we had to say what we liked about our body, 0:12:33.440 --> 0:12:36.280 what we didn't. This is the type of complete she's 0:12:36.280 --> 0:12:41.000 a status obviously complete humiliation. Yeah, and you know you've 0:12:41.040 --> 0:12:44.120 got this support team in her who's been verbally abusing 0:12:44.160 --> 0:12:46.400 you the whole time. You're going through your sleep deprived, 0:12:46.400 --> 0:12:50.360 food deprived. You're in survival mode. So as you would know, 0:12:50.880 --> 0:12:54.120 you know, you're using your you're operating on your reptilian brain. 0:12:54.200 --> 0:12:57.280 Your emotions and intellect have been like pushed down to 0:12:57.320 --> 0:13:00.000 a pilot light almost gone. You're on an isolated property. 0:13:00.000 --> 0:13:01.960 You can't even go anywhere, you can't run away, you 0:13:02.040 --> 0:13:05.599 have no idea where you are. So it was very sophisticated, 0:13:05.760 --> 0:13:09.360 calculated manipulation and mind control techniques. And at the end 0:13:09.400 --> 0:13:12.800 of it, you have this big party where you dress 0:13:12.880 --> 0:13:16.120 up and you know, in your beautiful dress and high heels, 0:13:16.120 --> 0:13:17.840 and the guys and we have a really big party 0:13:17.840 --> 0:13:19.000 where we all dance with each other and. 0:13:19.800 --> 0:13:20.440 A horror movie. 0:13:20.440 --> 0:13:21.320 It is a horror movie. 0:13:30.320 --> 0:13:30.959 Take me back to. 0:13:30.920 --> 0:13:32.920 That hardy, did you feel a sense of relief, like 0:13:33.280 --> 0:13:34.840 we've been there, we've done it, we've passed it. 0:13:34.920 --> 0:13:37.920 Yeah, been nice to us again and then again, That's. 0:13:38.040 --> 0:13:39.080 That's what it was all for. 0:13:39.160 --> 0:13:41.520 That's what happened, you know, that's why we went through that, 0:13:41.600 --> 0:13:43.400 because and we're only supposed to be able to do that. 0:13:43.480 --> 0:13:47.160 Course once flipped forward many years and I actually had 0:13:47.160 --> 0:13:49.960 to do the horrible thing again. But I guess yeah, 0:13:50.040 --> 0:13:53.000 like you know, at the party, you're so in shock 0:13:53.400 --> 0:13:56.240 at what happened and your brain can't process what the 0:13:56.280 --> 0:13:59.160 hell has happened. But you know, okay, you're having of course, 0:13:59.160 --> 0:14:01.319 you enjoy that as much as you can. But I 0:14:01.360 --> 0:14:03.520 think you just go home to your normal life and 0:14:03.600 --> 0:14:06.000 your shell shocked. People can't relate to you anymore because 0:14:06.040 --> 0:14:08.280 you can't relate to them. You can't tell anyone what 0:14:08.280 --> 0:14:09.000 you've been through. 0:14:09.040 --> 0:14:09.720 Of course you can't. 0:14:09.840 --> 0:14:12.280 Yeah, no one can relate to you because you tell 0:14:12.320 --> 0:14:13.920 them what you've been through, that you've lost. 0:14:13.760 --> 0:14:16.120 Your mind exactly, which you actually have. 0:14:16.200 --> 0:14:19.920 Which yeah, but no you haven't. They've got charge's they've 0:14:19.960 --> 0:14:20.560 taken over. 0:14:20.440 --> 0:14:22.880 And they've got your mind. So when you go back 0:14:22.880 --> 0:14:25.920 to what was your normal life, if you have on. 0:14:26.440 --> 0:14:28.320 So I guess at that stage I was leaving with 0:14:28.360 --> 0:14:31.480 my parents, just doing tent work, et cetera. And I 0:14:31.480 --> 0:14:33.240 think I was in a pr job for about a year. 0:14:33.640 --> 0:14:36.000 I went out to Italy just to be a nanny. 0:14:36.040 --> 0:14:37.840 I was offered a position and I went there only 0:14:37.880 --> 0:14:39.960 for a few months, and I ended up leaving and 0:14:40.200 --> 0:14:42.600 going to Siertle and learn Italian. And then I went 0:14:42.640 --> 0:14:45.480 to London and I'd got a job within the first week. 0:14:45.520 --> 0:14:46.120 I was so happy. 0:14:46.120 --> 0:14:48.240 I'd met some travelers and I had an apartment a 0:14:48.320 --> 0:14:51.080 job within one week. And unfortunately, my dad almost had 0:14:51.120 --> 0:14:53.560 a heart attack and had sort of five bypasses, so 0:14:53.600 --> 0:14:55.760 I flew home the next day and then that was 0:14:55.760 --> 0:14:58.160 cut off, and then it was like trying to find 0:14:58.160 --> 0:15:00.600 myself again. And then at the end of that year, 0:15:01.080 --> 0:15:04.040 I ended up doing what was called Personal Mastery and 0:15:04.080 --> 0:15:08.240 Metaphysical Counseling certificate. So you know, we were offered you 0:15:08.240 --> 0:15:10.040 can be a counselor, you can be a healer, you 0:15:10.080 --> 0:15:11.080 can be a psychic. 0:15:10.760 --> 0:15:11.960 Reader through the cult. 0:15:12.120 --> 0:15:14.120 Yes, so through all of these courses. 0:15:14.200 --> 0:15:16.160 So now they're not only taking charge of your mind, 0:15:16.160 --> 0:15:18.320 they're taking charge of your life. Yes, they want you 0:15:18.360 --> 0:15:22.440 to work for them and yeah wow. So talk about Wolf. 0:15:22.320 --> 0:15:24.280 Yeah that he keeps going. 0:15:24.360 --> 0:15:26.000 So what did you think you'd get out the first bit? 0:15:26.040 --> 0:15:28.320 Because you say you went off and traveled to London 0:15:28.400 --> 0:15:30.600 and Nanny and Italy. It sounds like you were your 0:15:30.640 --> 0:15:32.920 mind was still here there and you were still broken 0:15:32.960 --> 0:15:36.360 and still searching for something. Yes that this course is 0:15:36.840 --> 0:15:39.040 ultimately didn't do. It sounded like that your life was 0:15:39.080 --> 0:15:42.320 completely theirs. It was outside of outside. 0:15:41.960 --> 0:15:43.640 Of the even though I was on the other side 0:15:43.640 --> 0:15:46.360 of the world, Like I was still with this Italian 0:15:46.360 --> 0:15:49.120 family and they were obviously having all this beautiful Italian food, 0:15:49.160 --> 0:15:51.680 but because I thought that I had to be vegan vegetarian, 0:15:52.000 --> 0:15:54.400 I was just eating bread and butter pretty much because 0:15:54.400 --> 0:15:56.800 they were making meat and everything else. So and then 0:15:56.840 --> 0:15:58.800 I'd still go for these runs and she told us 0:15:58.840 --> 0:16:00.960 to have like a face cloth scream on our runs. 0:16:01.000 --> 0:16:03.080 So you can imagine me in the you know, the 0:16:03.200 --> 0:16:06.440 vineyards of Italy and this country town just sort of 0:16:06.440 --> 0:16:08.320 screaming and people probably heard me and thought I was 0:16:08.360 --> 0:16:09.400 honestly crazy. 0:16:09.320 --> 0:16:10.840 These thousands of miles away. 0:16:10.880 --> 0:16:12.960 Exactly still completely mind controlled. 0:16:13.160 --> 0:16:14.080 Yeah wow. 0:16:14.360 --> 0:16:17.480 So then this particular year long course that was when 0:16:17.480 --> 0:16:20.280 it just hit another level, and you know, I think 0:16:20.280 --> 0:16:21.440 that was about twenty nine people. 0:16:21.440 --> 0:16:23.360 How they get you back into the how are they going? 0:16:23.360 --> 0:16:24.840 What come on? You need to come over now and 0:16:24.880 --> 0:16:25.560 do this course and. 0:16:25.920 --> 0:16:31.480 Again quickly financially, Oh yeah, throughout these years you paying 0:16:31.520 --> 0:16:34.160 for these courses? Are you paying for are you given 0:16:34.200 --> 0:16:36.880 a monthly donation or how's that working? 0:16:37.040 --> 0:16:40.040 So you know, for instance, the first course, I can't 0:16:40.080 --> 0:16:42.640 remember if it was sort of three ninety five or 0:16:42.640 --> 0:16:45.280 five hundred thick Keeping a Mind was the nineteen nineties. 0:16:45.480 --> 0:16:47.240 It ended up going up to nine ninety and all 0:16:47.280 --> 0:16:49.440 of that later. But so and then you know, the 0:16:49.480 --> 0:16:51.880 final step was three thousand at that time, and then 0:16:51.920 --> 0:16:55.480 it became five thousand, and then this particular we called 0:16:55.480 --> 0:16:59.000 it PMC Personal Mastery, that was about five thousand and 0:16:59.040 --> 0:17:01.000 then but then went up to ten thousand and all 0:17:01.000 --> 0:17:01.440 that type of thing. 0:17:01.520 --> 0:17:03.640 So it's constant, yeah. Money. 0:17:03.760 --> 0:17:06.240 How we kept getting pulled in was she'd write newsletters 0:17:06.640 --> 0:17:08.600 and send them out to Oliver. She had a big database, 0:17:08.640 --> 0:17:10.159 so at the end of every program you'd get like 0:17:10.680 --> 0:17:14.080 a four or five page little booklet of everyone's address 0:17:14.080 --> 0:17:17.320 and phone number. And yeah, she just keeps sending all 0:17:17.359 --> 0:17:20.399 of her stuff and in her newsletter she'd put in 0:17:20.480 --> 0:17:22.760 articles and things and comics and things, and I've looked 0:17:22.760 --> 0:17:24.960 at them now and I'm just like, you know, that 0:17:25.119 --> 0:17:27.840 was completing doctrination what she was putting in the newsletter, 0:17:28.280 --> 0:17:31.080 talking about different things, you know, and the aspect came 0:17:31.119 --> 0:17:34.080 in that she I can't remember exactly when it was, 0:17:34.119 --> 0:17:36.119 but there was a few things that she was teaching us. 0:17:36.119 --> 0:17:38.919 Definitely in PMC, and I'm pretty sure it happened on 0:17:38.920 --> 0:17:41.440 the final step as well. But the further you go 0:17:41.520 --> 0:17:44.960 into your development and integration, she started to innuendo that 0:17:45.040 --> 0:17:48.600 she was Jesus Christ reincarnated. So she said that we 0:17:48.680 --> 0:17:51.080