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Speaker 1: We'd like to acknowledge that traditional custodians of the land

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Speaker 1: on which this podcast was produced the Gadigl people of

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Speaker 1: the orination. We pay our respects to Elder's past and present.

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Speaker 1: This episode contains discussions of physical and emotional abuse and

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Speaker 1: coercive control. If this raises any issues for youth support

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Speaker 1: is available through the links and phone numbers in the

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Speaker 1: show notes.

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Speaker 2: It's nineteen ninety six and we're at a wellness festival

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Speaker 2: in Sydney.

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Speaker 3: We're here with Carl McConkey. After she made the last

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Speaker 3: minute decision to head along and see what it's all about.

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Speaker 2: She strolls past the stand and is handed a brochure.

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Speaker 2: It's for a course that promises to help her reach

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Speaker 2: her full potential in all aspects of life. Carly's been

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Speaker 2: feeling lost and thinks this encounter could be it the

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Speaker 2: sign she's been searching for. With hope in her heart,

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Speaker 2: she excitedly signs up for the course. What Carly doesn't

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Speaker 2: realize is that this will become the first step into

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Speaker 2: the descent of a cult. This cult is where she's

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Speaker 2: spent the next thirteen years.

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Speaker 3: Of her life.

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Speaker 2: I'm at Middleton and this is head Game Today a

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Speaker 2: story of mind control and resilience on the road to recovery.

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Speaker 2: Carlie McConkey, Welcome to head Game. Your mindset has been manipulated.

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Speaker 2: You've taken control of it. It's been taken charge of

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Speaker 2: It's fascinating because you were a brainwash, let's say, into

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Speaker 2: a cult.

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Speaker 3: But take me back to the very beginning.

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Speaker 4: So I'm twenty one years old. I graduated, you know

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Speaker 4: even I think it was March that I got my

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Speaker 4: graduation certificate. And then in the May, it was one

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Speaker 4: Sunday afternoon. I'd been having a sleep and I just

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Speaker 4: saw in the newspaper that the first of all was

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Speaker 4: on you know, it was on a story newspaper. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: click exactly. It was three o'clock in the afternoon. I thought, okay,

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Speaker 4: I'm going to go and have a psyche reading. So

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Speaker 4: I went straight there, got the psyche reading, sat down

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Speaker 4: with this lady. She was lovely told, gave me the reading,

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Speaker 4: and then she said, you know what you need to do.

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Speaker 4: You need to do this personal development course. It's called

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Speaker 4: the next Evolutionary Step. You only have to do this

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Speaker 4: one course. It will give you all the tools to

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Speaker 4: enable you to reach your potential, find your direction, you know, destress,

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Speaker 4: have health and well bank, build better relationships. So she said, okay,

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Speaker 4: she gave me the brochure and the little package and

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Speaker 4: directed me to the stand.

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Speaker 2: So this is sounds like a bit of a behind

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Speaker 2: the scenes work here. So definitely this was all pre

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Speaker 2: emptied from that spiritual.

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Speaker 4: Reading exactly and pretty like in hindsight, obviously she was

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Speaker 4: recruiting me. That was the recruitment method, and she was

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Speaker 4: part of the cult.

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Speaker 2: Wow, so they've gone deep into you, answered a few

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Speaker 2: questions probably this is amazing, you know, this is where

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Speaker 2: I need to be there.

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Speaker 5: This is where I thought it was a sign is yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so that step into when they took you were just.

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Speaker 4: Like sold straight away. And then so I went up

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Speaker 4: to the stand. So all the smiling people, you know,

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Speaker 4: looking healthy and vibrant and that type of thing. You know,

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Speaker 4: there's kind of that love bombing that you hear about.

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Speaker 4: And then what happened was they said there was a

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Speaker 4: free stage one seminar at the Hilton Hotel. Okay, so

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Speaker 4: I took my mom, yeah, and my sister to the

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Speaker 4: Hilton Hotel. You know who is now we realize the

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Speaker 4: cult leader, the head of the company. She stood at

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Speaker 4: the front. She's like less than five foot tall. She was,

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Speaker 4: you know, slim and trim and fit, very charismatic and

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Speaker 4: was just walking across the stage talking about, you know,

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Speaker 4: what the program would do. She had people who had

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Speaker 4: completed the program stand at the front do testimonials. They

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Speaker 4: were all smiling and you know, all that type of thing,

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Speaker 4: and then you know, I was already sold, but then

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Speaker 4: I signed up straight away. My mom and my sister

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Speaker 4: actually did do the first program with me. That was

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Speaker 4: at McRory University. Okay, so you know, these locations are

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Speaker 4: all very above board. You think everything's fine. It's just

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Speaker 4: a personal development company. You're doing this course to better yourself.

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Speaker 4: So that was on a Thursday night, Friday night, all

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Speaker 4: weekend and Monday night.

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Speaker 3: So intense it was.

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Speaker 2: It was it was a case of not giving you

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Speaker 2: much time to think from the reading into the hills

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Speaker 2: and then bang, bang bang it.

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Speaker 3: That was early July for you know, you engulfed in it.

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Speaker 4: Exactly exactly clever, Yes it is. And that particular course,

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Speaker 4: we were vegan and we would get up early. We

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Speaker 4: were given sort of exercises to do meditation, listen to

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Speaker 4: her on a meditation tape. Every night, we had homework,

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Speaker 4: we had to write down our dreams, we had to

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Speaker 4: juice fresh juice every morning, that type of thing. So

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Speaker 4: you'd literally get up at seven and you wouldn't even

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Speaker 4: finish the course to like ten, and then it had

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Speaker 4: to go home do all this stuff. So sleep deprivation

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Speaker 4: already started, food deprivation already started. And the ultimate thing.

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Speaker 4: Her premise was that we were cleansing our cellular memory

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Speaker 4: from this lifetime, lifetimes and our ancestors, and we had

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Speaker 4: to do a lot of emotional release. So there was

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Speaker 4: eighty people on that course and in this one room,

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Speaker 4: really people, eighty people, and we were yelling and screaming

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Speaker 4: and getting our anger out and rage, and you know,

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Speaker 4: they said, okay, here's a pillow.

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Speaker 5: He's a big black.

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Speaker 4: Gymnastic mat, you know, the six x four foot gymnastic mats.

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Speaker 4: We had to think of either our teacher, our parents,

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Speaker 4: our siblings, whoever, and yell into the mat, punch and

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Speaker 4: you know, yell and scream. So we had eighty people

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Speaker 4: doing that, so complete sensory overload. And there was one

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Speaker 4: point where I was hovering in the corner with my

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Speaker 4: mom sort of hugging her like obviously distressed. And you know,

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Speaker 4: the woman came, the cult leader as such, came up

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Speaker 4: and said, you know, I think you need to take

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Speaker 4: responsibility and move away from your mother and you know,

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Speaker 4: take responsibility for yourself.

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Speaker 3: It's happening.

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Speaker 4: So it's already she's yeah, pushing me away from my

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Speaker 4: mum and my family.

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Speaker 3: Wow.

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Speaker 2: So they're controlling your food, ye, your sleep, yes, your mind. Yes,

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Speaker 2: they're not giving you even time to think for yourself.

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Speaker 2: They're thinking for you.

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Speaker 3: That that's right, the actioning stuff for you.

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Speaker 2: Would you say that you were hugely before you went

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Speaker 2: to that reading, were you and were you vulnerable? Do

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Speaker 2: you think that you were still looking for yourself and

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Speaker 2: they came in and you thought there'd be that that

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Speaker 2: piece to the puzzle, right exactly, we complete you.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: And I think because I was a very idealistic person,

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Speaker 4: I had everything to give. I wanted to do something

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Speaker 4: good in the world. I wanted to contribute, be of

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Speaker 4: service in the world and do something big that would

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Speaker 4: help in some way. And I think I was vulnerable

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Speaker 4: and unfortunately what happens with cults, you're in the wrong

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Speaker 4: place at the wrong time. I mean that was obviously

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Speaker 4: what happened.

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Speaker 2: In place at the right time, which she thought you

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Speaker 2: were at the right place at the right time.

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Speaker 5: That's exactly right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Ultimately you weren't exactly that, you're at the wrong

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Speaker 2: place at the wrong yeah.

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Speaker 4: And I think something else important is that the woman

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Speaker 4: who the founder, who was up the front, the charismatic

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Speaker 4: we'll call a cult leader. Now, she it felt like

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Speaker 4: she was psychic and she was reading you and knew

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Speaker 4: everything about you. But the fact is is that we'd

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Speaker 4: had to complete a background questionnaire all about our health,

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Speaker 4: medical history. She and her there was a support team

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Speaker 4: of about six people who were her You know, it's

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Speaker 4: like a gang.

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Speaker 2: Really, they're breaking all that information down. They know when

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Speaker 2: they know when to you. They're running the course, they're

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Speaker 2: running you, they're running your life. So they know we're

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Speaker 2: going to use that on day four.

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Speaker 3: For exactly exactly this type of exercise. And then you're like, wow, you.

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Speaker 5: Know, how do they know that about me?

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Speaker 3: Really working?

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Speaker 2: There the blank gaps that I never knew were there,

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Speaker 2: and now they're identifying new things. But ultimately they are

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Speaker 2: they're doing the full takeover of your heart.

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Speaker 3: Body, and mind. Spiritually as well. Yeah, so how long

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Speaker 3: was this? Did this course go on for? How long?

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Speaker 4: So I went to the site reading in the May.

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Speaker 4: I believe that the free stage one seminar was in

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Speaker 4: the June, and I did the next evolutionary step in

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Speaker 4: the early July. And as soon as that finished. At

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Speaker 4: the end of that program, you learn that there's seventeen

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Speaker 4: other courses that you can do, and you know their

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Speaker 4: week long weekends, a year long course, this type of thing.

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Speaker 4: And because you've been in I'm to overload. You know,

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Speaker 4: you've been vegan for most of that course. You're on

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Speaker 4: a high, but you've still you've just opened up all

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Speaker 4: of this trauma and everything, and so you're feeling so unsettled,

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Speaker 4: and you know, she says to keep sort of integrating

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Speaker 4: and evolving or enlightning, you know, you have to keep going.

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Speaker 4: And so then it's like, okay, well I have to

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Speaker 4: keep going. So I signed on to the September cost

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Speaker 4: which was a weekend course which was all about funnily enough,

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Speaker 4: talking to you, you know, climbing a mountain. Mountain warning

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Speaker 4: a lot lower than Everest, but you know you had groups,

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Speaker 4: the top group, the second group, and third group, et cetera.

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Speaker 4: I went in the second group because I thought, you know, oh,

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Speaker 4: I really want to be in the top group, but

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Speaker 4: I'm not really sure. And then I ended up making

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Speaker 4: it to the top group anyway. But then when I

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Speaker 4: got back, she humiliated me and this other girl in

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Speaker 4: front of everyone. I think there was eighty people in

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Speaker 4: that one just calling me, you know, a black cloud

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Speaker 4: on the mountain and all this because I was trying

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Speaker 4: to make it up the top. It's a long story,

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Speaker 4: but so you know, she humulated me in front of everyone.

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Speaker 4: So I'm like, oh, I'm a bad person. I need

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Speaker 4: to keep going, you know, that type of thing. That

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Speaker 4: was September. I saw on to the next course, which

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Speaker 4: was October, which was an eight day, seven night course.

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Speaker 4: And I think this is probably the most important to

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Speaker 4: reflect how in one small space of time you can

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Speaker 4: utilize all those what we call thought reform and mind

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Speaker 4: control techniques.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, mind control techniques because they're very very clever

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Speaker 2: at what they do, right, definitely very clever as well

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Speaker 2: just making you feel bring you up and knocking you

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Speaker 2: back down, making you feel worse. It's going to have

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Speaker 2: to keep you in that system.

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Speaker 5: Absolutely.

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Speaker 3: So this this seven go back to this sounday, course, this.

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Speaker 5: Sounds yeah, it is very interesting.

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Speaker 4: So what happened was so this we all met at

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Speaker 4: Queensland University campus. We went into a big hole there

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Speaker 4: and we'd had a list of things that we had

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Speaker 4: to bring and you're not supposed to tell anyone about

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Speaker 4: the courses that you've done, absolutely anything about them. The

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Speaker 4: lady said, you know, keep an open mind and all

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Speaker 4: of this, and you know, if you find out what's

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Speaker 4: in the course then that's going to block you with

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Speaker 4: being open, et cetera. So we had this list of

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Speaker 4: things we need to bring and basically we got in there.

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Speaker 4: She's standing up the front with her six support teams,

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Speaker 4: you know, black cat, white and black clothes and just

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Speaker 4: blank faces. They started sort of basically verbally abusing us,

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Speaker 4: telling us we're not allowed to go to the toilet

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Speaker 4: unless we have permission. They took off our id wallets, watches,

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Speaker 4: all that type of thing, all of a sudden, wearing

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Speaker 4: complete fear. The premise of that program was to move

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Speaker 4: through your fear. Right, we were completely terrified and we'd

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Speaker 4: already had to wait hours to go in, so that

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Speaker 4: was anxiety building. We were in there for hours and yeah,

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Speaker 4: just basically being verbally abused, etc. We were walked out

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Speaker 4: eventually late in the night and onto a big coach

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Speaker 4: bus and all the windows were blackened out. Then we

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Speaker 4: were taken for hours. We didn't have a watch, so

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Speaker 4: we didn't know what time it was we got down.

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Speaker 4: I know she's tried to say now that it's just

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Speaker 4: like survival courses and you know, and whatever, but you know,

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Speaker 4: we didn't choose to do all of this, so that's

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Speaker 4: the difference. So then we got out on this completely

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Speaker 4: isolated property in the morning and we had to line

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Speaker 4: up in lines, and yeah, there was all these verbal

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Speaker 4: assaults and things, and we had to keep bringing up

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Speaker 4: issues with each other. As I said, we weren't allowed

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Speaker 4: to go to the toilet. There was three portaloos and

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Speaker 4: we only had like five minutes and there were seventy

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Speaker 4: people on that one. And this was nineteen ninety six,

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Speaker 4: and we all had to go to the toilet within

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Speaker 4: five minutes, and if you didn't, you know, you had

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Speaker 4: to wait.

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Speaker 5: You never knew when you could go to the toilet.

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Speaker 4: We were in a marquis for hours and hours. She

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Speaker 4: was lecturing us about all these things. We only had

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Speaker 4: like around two hours sleep a night. We went with

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Speaker 4: that food for over twenty four hours. We were in

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Speaker 4: tents with two people, and you know, sometime they'd take

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Speaker 4: the tents away and just do.

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Speaker 3: All these weird and really messing with.

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Speaker 5: You, all, totally messing with our head.

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Speaker 3: We complete just smashing you back down.

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Speaker 4: And yeah, and we didn't you know, we couldn't trust

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Speaker 4: anyone obviously, because you'd have people bring up issues with

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Speaker 4: you all the time and all that type of thing.

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Speaker 4: And then like in the morning, we'd have to go

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Speaker 4: for a run every morning, and then we'd have to

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Speaker 4: jump into this pond, murky pond naked. I know, it

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Speaker 4: sounds terrible, and it was weird. It is, I know

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Speaker 4: it is. So we had to stay in the pond

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Speaker 4: and we couldn't get out until she said so. And

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Speaker 4: if someone took a while to get into the pond,

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Speaker 4: that just prolonged the time. And we were in the

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Speaker 4: pond for we don't know how long. And then in

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Speaker 4: the Marquee late at night. You know, I don't really

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Speaker 4: like talking about it, but she was showing us pornography

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Speaker 4: and on the TV, like it's totally weird. And there

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Speaker 4: was one stage where We had to stand up on

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Speaker 4: a stage naked in front of like seventy people from

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Speaker 4: the age of you know, seventeen eighteen to you know, eighty,

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Speaker 4: and we had to say what we liked about our body,

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Speaker 4: what we didn't. This is the type of complete she's

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Speaker 4: a status obviously complete humiliation. Yeah, and you know you've

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Speaker 4: got this support team in her who's been verbally abusing

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Speaker 4: you the whole time. You're going through your sleep deprived,

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Speaker 4: food deprived. You're in survival mode. So as you would know,

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Speaker 4: you know, you're using your you're operating on your reptilian brain.

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Speaker 4: Your emotions and intellect have been like pushed down to

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Speaker 4: a pilot light almost gone. You're on an isolated property.

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Speaker 4: You can't even go anywhere, you can't run away, you

285
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Speaker 4: have no idea where you are. So it was very sophisticated,

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Speaker 4: calculated manipulation and mind control techniques. And at the end

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Speaker 4: of it, you have this big party where you dress

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Speaker 4: up and you know, in your beautiful dress and high heels,

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Speaker 4: and the guys and we have a really big party

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Speaker 4: where we all dance with each other and.

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Speaker 3: A horror movie.

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Speaker 5: It is a horror movie.

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Speaker 3: Take me back to.

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Speaker 2: That hardy, did you feel a sense of relief, like

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Speaker 2: we've been there, we've done it, we've passed it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, been nice to us again and then again, That's.

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Speaker 5: That's what it was all for.

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Speaker 4: That's what happened, you know, that's why we went through that,

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Speaker 4: because and we're only supposed to be able to do that.

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Speaker 4: Course once flipped forward many years and I actually had

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Speaker 4: to do the horrible thing again. But I guess yeah,

302
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Speaker 4: like you know, at the party, you're so in shock

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Speaker 4: at what happened and your brain can't process what the

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Speaker 4: hell has happened. But you know, okay, you're having of course,

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Speaker 4: you enjoy that as much as you can. But I

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Speaker 4: think you just go home to your normal life and

307
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Speaker 4: your shell shocked. People can't relate to you anymore because

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Speaker 4: you can't relate to them. You can't tell anyone what

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Speaker 4: you've been through.

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Speaker 3: Of course you can't.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no one can relate to you because you tell

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Speaker 2: them what you've been through, that you've lost.

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Speaker 5: Your mind exactly, which you actually have.

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Speaker 3: Which yeah, but no you haven't. They've got charge's they've

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Speaker 3: taken over.

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Speaker 2: And they've got your mind. So when you go back

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Speaker 2: to what was your normal life, if you have on.

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Speaker 4: So I guess at that stage I was leaving with

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Speaker 4: my parents, just doing tent work, et cetera. And I

320
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Speaker 4: think I was in a pr job for about a year.

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Speaker 4: I went out to Italy just to be a nanny.

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Speaker 4: I was offered a position and I went there only

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Speaker 4: for a few months, and I ended up leaving and

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Speaker 4: going to Siertle and learn Italian. And then I went

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Speaker 4: to London and I'd got a job within the first week.

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Speaker 5: I was so happy.

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Speaker 4: I'd met some travelers and I had an apartment a

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Speaker 4: job within one week. And unfortunately, my dad almost had

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Speaker 4: a heart attack and had sort of five bypasses, so

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Speaker 4: I flew home the next day and then that was

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Speaker 4: cut off, and then it was like trying to find

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Speaker 4: myself again. And then at the end of that year,

333
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Speaker 4: I ended up doing what was called Personal Mastery and

334
00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:08,240
Speaker 4: Metaphysical Counseling certificate. So you know, we were offered you

335
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Speaker 4: can be a counselor, you can be a healer, you

336
00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:11,080
Speaker 4: can be a psychic.

337
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Speaker 3: Reader through the cult.

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Speaker 5: Yes, so through all of these courses.

339
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Speaker 2: So now they're not only taking charge of your mind,

340
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Speaker 2: they're taking charge of your life. Yes, they want you

341
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Speaker 2: to work for them and yeah wow. So talk about Wolf.

342
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Speaker 5: Yeah that he keeps going.

343
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Speaker 2: So what did you think you'd get out the first bit?

344
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Speaker 2: Because you say you went off and traveled to London

345
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Speaker 2: and Nanny and Italy. It sounds like you were your

346
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Speaker 2: mind was still here there and you were still broken

347
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Speaker 2: and still searching for something. Yes that this course is

348
00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:39,040
Speaker 2: ultimately didn't do. It sounded like that your life was

349
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Speaker 2: completely theirs. It was outside of outside.

350
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Speaker 4: Of the even though I was on the other side

351
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Speaker 4: of the world, Like I was still with this Italian

352
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Speaker 4: family and they were obviously having all this beautiful Italian food,

353
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Speaker 4: but because I thought that I had to be vegan vegetarian,

354
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Speaker 4: I was just eating bread and butter pretty much because

355
00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:56,800
Speaker 4: they were making meat and everything else. So and then

356
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Speaker 4: I'd still go for these runs and she told us

357
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Speaker 4: to have like a face cloth scream on our runs.

358
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Speaker 4: So you can imagine me in the you know, the

359
00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:06,440
Speaker 4: vineyards of Italy and this country town just sort of

360
00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:08,320
Speaker 4: screaming and people probably heard me and thought I was

361
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Speaker 4: honestly crazy.

362
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Speaker 3: These thousands of miles away.

363
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Speaker 5: Exactly still completely mind controlled.

364
00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:14,080
Speaker 3: Yeah wow.

365
00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:17,480
Speaker 4: So then this particular year long course that was when

366
00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:20,280
Speaker 4: it just hit another level, and you know, I think

367
00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:21,440
Speaker 4: that was about twenty nine people.

368
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Speaker 3: How they get you back into the how are they going?

369
00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:24,840
Speaker 3: What come on? You need to come over now and

370
00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:25,560
Speaker 3: do this course and.

371
00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:31,480
Speaker 2: Again quickly financially, Oh yeah, throughout these years you paying

372
00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:34,160
Speaker 2: for these courses? Are you paying for are you given

373
00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:36,880
Speaker 2: a monthly donation or how's that working?

374
00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:40,040
Speaker 4: So you know, for instance, the first course, I can't

375
00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:42,640
Speaker 4: remember if it was sort of three ninety five or

376
00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:45,280
Speaker 4: five hundred thick Keeping a Mind was the nineteen nineties.

377
00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:47,240
Speaker 4: It ended up going up to nine ninety and all

378
00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:49,440
Speaker 4: of that later. But so and then you know, the

379
00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:51,880
Speaker 4: final step was three thousand at that time, and then

380
00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:55,480
Speaker 4: it became five thousand, and then this particular we called

381
00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:59,000
Speaker 4: it PMC Personal Mastery, that was about five thousand and

382
00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:01,000
Speaker 4: then but then went up to ten thousand and all

383
00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:01,440
Speaker 4: that type of thing.

384
00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:03,640
Speaker 5: So it's constant, yeah. Money.

385
00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:06,240
Speaker 4: How we kept getting pulled in was she'd write newsletters

386
00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:08,600
Speaker 4: and send them out to Oliver. She had a big database,

387
00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:10,159
Speaker 4: so at the end of every program you'd get like

388
00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:14,080
Speaker 4: a four or five page little booklet of everyone's address

389
00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:17,320
Speaker 4: and phone number. And yeah, she just keeps sending all

390
00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:20,399
Speaker 4: of her stuff and in her newsletter she'd put in

391
00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:22,760
Speaker 4: articles and things and comics and things, and I've looked

392
00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:24,960
Speaker 4: at them now and I'm just like, you know, that

393
00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:27,840
Speaker 4: was completing doctrination what she was putting in the newsletter,

394
00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:31,080
Speaker 4: talking about different things, you know, and the aspect came

395
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Speaker 4: in that she I can't remember exactly when it was,

396
00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:36,119
Speaker 4: but there was a few things that she was teaching us.

397
00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:38,919
Speaker 4: Definitely in PMC, and I'm pretty sure it happened on

398
00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:41,440
Speaker 4: the final step as well. But the further you go

399
00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:44,960
Speaker 4: into your development and integration, she started to innuendo that

400
00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:48,600
Speaker 4: she was Jesus Christ reincarnated. So she said that we

401
00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:51,080
Speaker 4: have all these shafts and that she could I guess

402
00:17:51,119 --> 00:17:53,800
Speaker 4: it's like other past lives, these shafts into all these

403
00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:56,879
Speaker 4: other lives, and she could tap into hers, and one

404
00:17:56,920 --> 00:18:00,159
Speaker 4: of her shafts was Jesus Christ reincarnated. She talked a

405
00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:02,919
Speaker 4: lot about Atlantis, and from what she said, you know,

406
00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:05,240
Speaker 4: I and others believe she was the Queen of Atlantis

407
00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:05,680
Speaker 4: back then.

408
00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:08,520
Speaker 3: God goddess complex.

409
00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:13,360
Speaker 4: Definitely, definitely she thought she was a yeah, yeah, Jesus bactically.

410
00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:16,480
Speaker 3: Goddess, I know, and you were her children. Alto me,

411
00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:18,680
Speaker 3: well that's the thing that disciples.

412
00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:21,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, she was separating us from our friends and family,

413
00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:24,479
Speaker 4: and she was putting herself forward as the mother figure.

414
00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:29,760
Speaker 2: There was a spiritual and religious connection and religious because

415
00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:33,200
Speaker 2: you're both right, you're you're huge spiritual and you're hugely.

416
00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:35,359
Speaker 5: Religious.

417
00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:38,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, so go so you are you were her prime target?

418
00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:42,880
Speaker 5: Definitely, definitely yes, yeah, yeah.

419
00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:45,040
Speaker 2: So you go on and so now you're at this stage.

420
00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:47,760
Speaker 2: You've got your life, you've got your finances. The indoctrination

421
00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:49,440
Speaker 2: is it, but now it's.

422
00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:51,679
Speaker 3: I want your career. I want you fully involved in this.

423
00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:54,000
Speaker 4: Yeah. So you can become an instructor, you can become

424
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Speaker 4: a counselor a healer.

425
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Speaker 3: What did you do.

426
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Speaker 4: Yeah, So that particular year when I was doing the

427
00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:01,080
Speaker 4: counseling certificate, you know I did that. I also did

428
00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:03,199
Speaker 4: at the same time the Heeler's caused to become a

429
00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:05,200
Speaker 4: healer and I did the psyche Reader's course a couple

430
00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:07,639
Speaker 4: of years later. So, and you know, it was all

431
00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:10,320
Speaker 4: about you can make money on the side being a counselor,

432
00:19:10,359 --> 00:19:12,440
Speaker 4: being a healer, et cetera. And you can make money

433
00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:15,199
Speaker 4: with me being an instructor. Eventually, after you evolve and

434
00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:18,600
Speaker 4: integrate up to you know, good enough. Basically, yeah, exactly, exactly.

435
00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:22,280
Speaker 4: So this year course was just crazy. We hardly slept

436
00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:24,159
Speaker 4: and we had these books we had to read, and

437
00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:26,320
Speaker 4: we had to like just a lot of sleep deprivation

438
00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:28,040
Speaker 4: and crazy. We had to bring up issues with each

439
00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:30,200
Speaker 4: other and it ended up getting a little bit physical.

440
00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:32,720
Speaker 4: So it was all right for there to be a

441
00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:36,280
Speaker 4: bit of physical altercations and things, which, now, in hindsight,

442
00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:40,640
Speaker 4: having educated myself, is radicalization and violent extremism, because you're

443
00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:45,679
Speaker 4: radicalizing to believe that violence is okay and warranted. And

444
00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:47,920
Speaker 4: I think, you know, she talk about Jesus Christ and

445
00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:49,320
Speaker 4: you know, oh, why do you think he went into

446
00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:52,080
Speaker 4: the desert for forty days and forty nights basically a

447
00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:54,040
Speaker 4: new end doing that, they were bringing up issues and

448
00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:55,600
Speaker 4: beating the heck out of each.

449
00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:56,199
Speaker 5: Other, do you know what I mean?

450
00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:59,440
Speaker 4: So she was normalizing it normalizing, And I think that's

451
00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:02,080
Speaker 4: an important point because, as I said, with the final step,

452
00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:04,920
Speaker 4: they test you, like they don't start out knowing, Okay,

453
00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:06,080
Speaker 4: I'm going to do this and I'm going to get

454
00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:10,000
Speaker 4: this reaction. They will test the boundaries and boundaries boundaries

455
00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:12,200
Speaker 4: with you know, one of the ex cult members, says

456
00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:15,639
Speaker 4: that he reckons the final step was definitely her indicator

457
00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:18,720
Speaker 4: of Okay, who's who's weak, who's strong, who aren't going

458
00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:20,720
Speaker 4: to be able to you know, get through? And I

459
00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:22,520
Speaker 4: think you know a lot of people, yeah, think that

460
00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:25,639
Speaker 4: cult members are crazy, they're idiots, and they're weak. But

461
00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:27,719
Speaker 4: I mean to go through what we did, you have

462
00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:30,960
Speaker 4: to be incredibly strong, have the head, head games.

463
00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:36,840
Speaker 2: It's you know, committed, totally, you know, driven all those

464
00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:38,160
Speaker 2: positive traits that you need.

465
00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:39,840
Speaker 3: That's exactly right, Ye, hugely.

466
00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:43,800
Speaker 2: So they're making the what's not normal normal now, so

467
00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:46,680
Speaker 2: when you're stepping outside of the cult, everything is unnormal.

468
00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:47,320
Speaker 5: That's correct.

469
00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:49,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, And it's in us versus them. So it's like

470
00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:50,879
Speaker 4: we are the chosen ones.

471
00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:51,840
Speaker 5: You know this.

472
00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:55,800
Speaker 4: You know there's extreme ASoft shoots of all the institutional religions,

473
00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:59,280
Speaker 4: which you know you would deem cults. There's New Age cults,

474
00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:03,080
Speaker 4: there's these personal development cults. You know, we've heard of

475
00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:07,080
Speaker 4: yoga instructors and founders being cult leaders, and you know

476
00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:10,600
Speaker 4: that the yogis in India, et cetera. So it doesn't

477
00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:12,480
Speaker 4: So mine was a new age spiritual because that's what

478
00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:15,680
Speaker 4: I had been interested in but you know, anyone out there,

479
00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:18,320
Speaker 4: whatever your interest, they are going to hone on that.

480
00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:21,960
Speaker 4: So every cult has a different recruitment method that they

481
00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:24,440
Speaker 4: pull you in and then those mind control and thought

482
00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:28,240
Speaker 4: reform techniques retain you and then they exploit you. So

483
00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:30,320
Speaker 4: I ended up doing almost all the courses. There was

484
00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:31,680
Speaker 4: about twenty six courses.

485
00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:37,080
Speaker 2: Right, so you're fully committed career, social family, do you

486
00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:38,080
Speaker 2: meet anyone in their life?

487
00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:41,199
Speaker 4: So yeah, So when at the end of that PMC

488
00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:44,520
Speaker 4: was ninety eight and then in the May of ninety nine,

489
00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:47,159
Speaker 4: I still hadn't had a relationship. I've been too scared

490
00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:49,280
Speaker 4: and fearful to be in a relationship.

491
00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:52,320
Speaker 2: So that's what they don't want, right, because then you

492
00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:55,440
Speaker 2: start to see what is actually normal, what is actually real,

493
00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:57,199
Speaker 2: the reality of life, and they don't want that.

494
00:21:57,400 --> 00:21:57,880
Speaker 5: Yeah.

495
00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:00,359
Speaker 4: So well, I think it really depends on So she

496
00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:03,080
Speaker 4: was maneuvering relationships the whole time. So I did actually

497
00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:06,720
Speaker 4: meet my now three children's father, and he I think

498
00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:08,520
Speaker 4: had done one course by that stage, and I met

499
00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:10,800
Speaker 4: him through one of the girls on my year long course.

500
00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:12,280
Speaker 5: So I did meet him.

501
00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:14,000
Speaker 4: I was scared to obviously go on a second date,

502
00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:16,280
Speaker 4: but I after everything, I pushed myself and I went

503
00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:18,639
Speaker 4: out with him. So we ended up moving in together,

504
00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:20,560
Speaker 4: and we were in Prisone at that time. I'd moved

505
00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:23,399
Speaker 4: up to be closer to the cult, and then we

506
00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:25,520
Speaker 4: moved down to Byron Bay because that's where his father

507
00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:28,640
Speaker 4: was living. He comes from that area. I had applied

508
00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:32,240
Speaker 4: for a job with the woman at her property and

509
00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:35,080
Speaker 4: with the organization, and you know, in September, I wrote

510
00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:37,399
Speaker 4: my second later and she said, no, there's no jobs.

511
00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:40,480
Speaker 4: By November she said, yes, come and work for me.

512
00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:44,040
Speaker 2: There was always a job for you. Yeah, right, that

513
00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:46,040
Speaker 2: was always a job for you. She pushed, all not

514
00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:48,480
Speaker 2: good enough again and going yeah. Then her offering the

515
00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:50,320
Speaker 2: olive branch again, right.

516
00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:53,080
Speaker 3: Rather than you you go and can yeah.

517
00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:55,680
Speaker 4: And the unfortunate thing is that she said, okay, you'll

518
00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:57,639
Speaker 4: learn the ropes. I won't give you money right now,

519
00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:00,240
Speaker 4: but once you know, learn the ropes, then you'll get paid.

520
00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:02,359
Speaker 4: I ended up working for the next ten years for

521
00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:04,679
Speaker 4: her as her personal assistant and on the property, one

522
00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:07,440
Speaker 4: hundred acre property, and I never got paid. I got

523
00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:08,840
Speaker 4: one five thousand dollar check.

524
00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:19,359
Speaker 3: You're on our property, She's I'm.

525
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:23,040
Speaker 4: Renting one of her properties right adjoining her so she had.

526
00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:25,639
Speaker 2: This big property, almost thinks that she's doing you a favor.

527
00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:29,160
Speaker 2: I've got definitely, but not paying Yeah, but you know

528
00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:31,280
Speaker 2: you don't need you're not paying you, but it's almost

529
00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:32,840
Speaker 2: payment for her in her mind.

530
00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:34,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're staying there.

531
00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:36,600
Speaker 4: Well I wanted to be me. Yeah no, no, I

532
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:38,919
Speaker 4: was paying rent. So I had to get a second,

533
00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:41,960
Speaker 4: like another job to pay the rent. And meanwhile she's

534
00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:45,280
Speaker 4: not paying me wages. Okay, I know, it's crazy. That

535
00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:47,199
Speaker 4: happened to quite a few of us, and I was.

536
00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:49,399
Speaker 4: She had an office and the course center on her

537
00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:51,399
Speaker 4: property where her house was, and it was up like

538
00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:53,520
Speaker 4: a one kilomity hill, so no one could see what

539
00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:56,720
Speaker 4: was happening up there. And anyway, an important thing is

540
00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:58,280
Speaker 4: that at the end of ninety ninety eight she was

541
00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:01,600
Speaker 4: actually featured on Channel nine's a Current Fair Australia Wide

542
00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:04,160
Speaker 4: as being a cult leader, a con artist and saying

543
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:07,399
Speaker 4: that she was basically Jesus Christ. After that time, throughout

544
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:10,520
Speaker 4: ninety ninety nine, all of the courses diminished to like,

545
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:13,920
Speaker 4: you know, two, three or four or five people because

546
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:16,360
Speaker 4: she had such a bad reputation. And then and that's

547
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:18,280
Speaker 4: when I came on board. At the end of ninety nine.

548
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:20,480
Speaker 4: I worked with her for two years. A couple of

549
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:22,800
Speaker 4: girls in the office. One lady just disappeared three weeks

550
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:26,200
Speaker 4: later after I started, another girl ended up disappearing as well.

551
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:28,679
Speaker 4: We'd call it running away. People would run away. She

552
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:32,600
Speaker 4: proselytized that the world was going to end. Okay, so

553
00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:36,560
Speaker 4: doomsday cult around eleven eleven eleven, So the eleventh of

554
00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:39,359
Speaker 4: November twenty eleven, the world was going to end. The

555
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:42,399
Speaker 4: Earth's axis would shift or some big event would happen,

556
00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:45,119
Speaker 4: and we had to survive. And she knew how to survive,

557
00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:47,320
Speaker 4: and she was, you know, in touch with all of

558
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:51,000
Speaker 4: her shafts Jesus Christ. She literally said that people, there'll

559
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:53,200
Speaker 4: be about a two week period where it'll be dark

560
00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:56,440
Speaker 4: and things will be happening, and we have to People

561
00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:59,000
Speaker 4: want to kill us for food and water, so we

562
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:00,280
Speaker 4: will have to kill them.

563
00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:02,240
Speaker 3: It sounds like the zombie poet.

564
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:04,440
Speaker 5: It's like, on a.

565
00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:07,600
Speaker 2: Super serious note, she's not not any your journey that

566
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:11,159
Speaker 2: you're going on through life. She's now got your destination,

567
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:13,520
Speaker 2: which you all have one destination in life, and we

568
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:16,639
Speaker 2: know where that is. So now she's got full full

569
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:22,439
Speaker 2: control of till your last last day exactly does it

570
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:26,280
Speaker 2: get quite dark and quite aggressive and quite right.

571
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:26,480
Speaker 3: You know.

572
00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:30,240
Speaker 4: She talked about rifles being buried on the property. On

573
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:33,240
Speaker 4: there was a survivor's course and we literally went to

574
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:35,119
Speaker 4: a gun range and learned how to shoot.

575
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:38,920
Speaker 5: And there's just so much in.

576
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:42,680
Speaker 3: The package saying what kept you there doing this during

577
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:43,200
Speaker 3: this time?

578
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:46,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, so I think I owe her. And when with

579
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:49,720
Speaker 4: the world ending, it's like you are cleansing your cellular

580
00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:53,520
Speaker 4: memory and integrating to your highest involvement because you're going

581
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:57,240
Speaker 4: to save your children, yourselves, your family, the planet. So

582
00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:00,439
Speaker 4: this is like a mission for God and Jesus that

583
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:03,800
Speaker 4: I wanted to move us to the fourth dimension, she

584
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:06,960
Speaker 4: called it. So I need to be like this army,

585
00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:10,280
Speaker 4: you know, military disciplined person. I'm like a h at

586
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:11,840
Speaker 4: the end of the world, I'm going to be fighting

587
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:14,840
Speaker 4: for the planet because we have to. You know, she

588
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:18,120
Speaker 4: said that most people will be dead, but we will

589
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:20,639
Speaker 4: help take the planet to the next, you know, fourth dimension.

590
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:22,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're going to be the levee survivors.

591
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:25,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're going to you know, we need We've got

592
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:28,439
Speaker 2: to step up because exactly it's the new awakening of

593
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:32,600
Speaker 2: Jesus Christ. Ultimately, she and she thought she was the

594
00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:33,960
Speaker 2: powerful messiah exactly.

595
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:36,840
Speaker 4: And I've since found in a newsletter she had that. Yeah,

596
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:40,159
Speaker 4: she talked about the thousand years of peace, right, So

597
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:43,399
Speaker 4: you know, it's it's just so many layers. As you

598
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:47,840
Speaker 4: can tell, flash forward ten years. It's the end of

599
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:48,880
Speaker 4: two thousand and nine.

600
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:50,320
Speaker 3: So you're you're in it.

601
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:55,680
Speaker 2: You're in this to you in the trenches for years.

602
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:57,920
Speaker 3: This wasn't just a case of months and something.

603
00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:00,600
Speaker 2: You realize something, you know, you're You're just this is

604
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 2: completely normal to you.

605
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:05,959
Speaker 4: Your you still have you know, your doubts and things anything.

606
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:07,600
Speaker 4: I don't know if I can keep going with this

607
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:10,040
Speaker 4: or you know, then she froze.

608
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:11,560
Speaker 5: She does.

609
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:13,280
Speaker 4: It's always like and then they'll be I will have

610
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:15,159
Speaker 4: gone through all of this crap and then like we

611
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:17,879
Speaker 4: went to Samoa in two thousand and five after I

612
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:20,040
Speaker 4: got married, and then I separated from my husband about

613
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:23,040
Speaker 4: three times because she would like put us together, separators,

614
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:23,960
Speaker 4: put us together, separator.

615
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:26,680
Speaker 3: So do you remember the moment or.

616
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:31,119
Speaker 2: The awakening for yourself when the penny dropped, when you

617
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:35,879
Speaker 2: were like, this is insane. You know, did obviously the

618
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:38,560
Speaker 2: eleventh of the eleventh of the eleventh didn't come because

619
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:41,760
Speaker 2: it must have been like a like having a balloon

620
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 2: then going pop, and.

621
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:45,920
Speaker 3: It's just like the reality of everything.

622
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:48,440
Speaker 4: So it was about the twenty third of December, before

623
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:52,159
Speaker 4: Christmas two thousand and nine, and I just couldn't handle

624
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:55,280
Speaker 4: it anymore. And I'm thinking, okay, I'm going to escape. Right.

625
00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:57,400
Speaker 2: It's just a case of I can't cope with this,

626
00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:00,280
Speaker 2: This is too much out of this job exactly. Can't

627
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:03,800
Speaker 2: realized that this stage, that all of this was a

628
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:05,920
Speaker 2: was a master plan exactly.

629
00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:06,399
Speaker 3: Okay.

630
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:08,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, So this twenty third of December, it was two

631
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:10,680
Speaker 4: am in the morning. I was working in the office.

632
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:12,840
Speaker 4: A phone call comes through with one of the other girls.

633
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:14,919
Speaker 4: She tells me, you have to take this iPod up

634
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:18,200
Speaker 4: to basically the cult leader for her son. Right, So

635
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:19,840
Speaker 4: at two am the morning, I have to drive up

636
00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:22,159
Speaker 4: to Burly Heads at that point, and I thought, okay,

637
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:25,200
Speaker 4: I because she'd been to America and all this crap

638
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:27,639
Speaker 4: was going on, and she was screaming at me all

639
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:29,920
Speaker 4: the time and stuff again, and I knew that things

640
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:32,760
Speaker 4: were going to happen. It was getting volatile. So I thought, okay,

641
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:35,040
Speaker 4: I'm going to leave with my children. So my children

642
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:37,640
Speaker 4: were sleeping downstairs on the property. You know my three

643
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:39,640
Speaker 4: children that I'd have to get ready every morning night

644
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:41,760
Speaker 4: and take them to daycare, and god knows what, I

645
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:43,600
Speaker 4: scooped them all up. I put them in my car

646
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:45,640
Speaker 4: two am in the morning, got there at three am,

647
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:48,280
Speaker 4: and the guy, her partner at the time, didn't answer,

648
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:50,640
Speaker 4: and I thought, you know, you're so paranoid. I didn't

649
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:53,960
Speaker 4: want to leave this stupid iPod on the doorstep until

650
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:56,040
Speaker 4: if it got stolen, I'd be in big trouble. So

651
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:57,880
Speaker 4: I slept in the car for about three hours with

652
00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:00,200
Speaker 4: the kids, and then the guy phoned me said why

653
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 4: the hell didn't you just drop it and go? And

654
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 4: then I was too tired to escape, okay, But then

655
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:07,680
Speaker 4: this other girl found out that I tried to escape,

656
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:09,800
Speaker 4: got back to the court leader. She ended up calling me,

657
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 4: abused me for five minutes, calling me an abusive mother.

658
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 4: I'm going to if you leave, Carli, I'm going to

659
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:18,080
Speaker 4: dab you into doc's Department of Child Safety. I'm going

660
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:20,760
Speaker 4: to sign office as psychologist and have your three children

661
00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:23,160
Speaker 4: taken away from you because you're an abusive mother. Why

662
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:24,840
Speaker 4: did you take your three children out in the middle

663
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:29,040
Speaker 4: of the night in the car. That's abusive flank, you know, yeah, yeah,

664
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:29,320
Speaker 4: and she.

665
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 3: Just get at it.

666
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 4: She's still if you leave, you know, it's going to

667
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:34,720
Speaker 4: be detrimental to your children. Because the whole time she'd

668
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:37,400
Speaker 4: be calling me a really bad mother. I was sterilized

669
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 4: and as a mother. So then fast forward, that was

670
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:43,880
Speaker 4: the twenty third of December. I was really in the

671
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:46,760
Speaker 4: shed with as we call it. Then the twenty seventh

672
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:49,280
Speaker 4: of December, I went into her house. She just punched

673
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:52,280
Speaker 4: me straight in the face. And so, you know, first

674
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:54,160
Speaker 4: of all, I'm in this like hide and state of

675
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:57,120
Speaker 4: fear again, and I'm like, I just don't know if

676
00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:59,120
Speaker 4: i can keep going with this. I have a black eye.

677
00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 4: And then the next day, so two days after the

678
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:04,680
Speaker 4: black eye, the co leader she came up into the

679
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:07,880
Speaker 4: office screaming. She was totally enraged. The other girl in

680
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:10,520
Speaker 4: the room. They tried to block the collage from coming

681
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 4: into me because she could see something really bad was

682
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 4: gonna happen. She tried to stop the door, but the

683
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 4: colle just pushed by the way. She threw me on

684
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 4: the ground. It was in this accounts office and she

685
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:21,360
Speaker 4: started punching me, kicking me. She peemed me to the

686
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:23,960
Speaker 4: ground and she was screaming in my face, and for

687
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:26,320
Speaker 4: the first time, I just thought, oh my god, this

688
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:27,640
Speaker 4: woman doesn't love me.

689
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:33,600
Speaker 5: She hates me. That was it was.

690
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:36,680
Speaker 4: It was just terrible, and I'm just like, you know,

691
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:38,640
Speaker 4: after that, I was in a state of few thinks.

692
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:40,560
Speaker 3: Everything that you've gone through.

693
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:41,680
Speaker 5: And how much I've given you.

694
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:44,760
Speaker 3: And you know that she's using you.

695
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:47,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, I just thought I've given everything to this woman

696
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:51,000
Speaker 4: and I had nothing left. And then I just thought

697
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:54,320
Speaker 4: I can't do this anymore. I basically just thought to myself,

698
00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 4: you know what, I would rather die in two years'

699
00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:00,640
Speaker 4: time and spend the next two years with my children

700
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 4: because I'd hardly been spending any time with them. I'd

701
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:05,320
Speaker 4: rather do that and then just die. And then I

702
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:09,520
Speaker 4: just I was yeah. And then so I just played

703
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:11,720
Speaker 4: a stupid game with myself. I said, if this girl,

704
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 4: who you know, knows the truth that I've been doing

705
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 4: everything right, doesn't tell her that I have been doing

706
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:18,480
Speaker 4: everything right, then I'm going to leave. And this girl

707
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 4: just like walk past me and said, I'm not supposed

708
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:22,200
Speaker 4: to talk to you. I just thought, Okay, I've made

709
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:24,960
Speaker 4: that bet with myself, with the universe. This is my sign.

710
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:27,800
Speaker 4: I ended up passing that girl's poor teenage boy who

711
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:29,920
Speaker 4: was there, and I just said, sorry, I have to go,

712
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:33,000
Speaker 4: went down the bottom of the hill, packed the car

713
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:35,560
Speaker 4: with just everything I could fit in there, and I left.

714
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:37,800
Speaker 4: I picked up my eight year old who was at

715
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 4: vacation care. My other two were asleep at daycare. We

716
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 4: just went to like the Ocean, bought some hot chips,

717
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:46,760
Speaker 4: and just sat there overlooking the ocean. I said, was

718
00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:48,240
Speaker 4: trying to say to him, you know, do you like

719
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 4: it there? Do you think we should stay? But he

720
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:52,480
Speaker 4: obviously knew he couldn't say anything because it would come

721
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:55,680
Speaker 4: back on him. And then you know, went and picked

722
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:58,840
Speaker 4: up the boys, went to my ex husband's workplace, and

723
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:01,040
Speaker 4: I said, I just don't think I can do this

724
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:02,400
Speaker 4: anymore or whatever. He said, he can go to my

725
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:06,760
Speaker 4: mum's safe place, safe space, And within five minutes my

726
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:09,800
Speaker 4: brain just started filtering, Oh my god, that is a cult.

727
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:11,960
Speaker 5: She is a cult leader. And that was it.

728
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 2: So with so you once you're you're out of it,

729
00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:18,240
Speaker 2: and you know you've got this in your place, You've

730
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:20,520
Speaker 2: got this safe place that you can go to. Yeah,

731
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:25,160
Speaker 2: you're almost that relief of and then everything just yeah.

732
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:26,000
Speaker 5: Yeah.

733
00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:29,040
Speaker 4: My brain just lit up and you know, just filtered,

734
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 4: and it's like, oh, yeah, what the hell, Like, yeah,

735
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:35,480
Speaker 4: what everyone has been saying for all these years, it's true.

736
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:40,440
Speaker 2: So and then So that is literally instantaneously, right within

737
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 2: five minutes within Do you feel do you feel like

738
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:46,000
Speaker 2: you're there's a new you? Do you think do you

739
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:48,720
Speaker 2: feel like this is a new beginning for you as

740
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:49,400
Speaker 2: an individual?

741
00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:51,719
Speaker 3: Did you did you get back with your husband?

742
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:54,880
Speaker 4: I did for one year and then I just knew

743
00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:56,680
Speaker 4: that it wasn't going to work because we've made in

744
00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:58,880
Speaker 4: the colt and you know, I'm so grateful because I've

745
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:01,720
Speaker 4: got three beautiful boys. Yeah, you know, we've just gone

746
00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:03,920
Speaker 4: through so many bad things, you know, together.

747
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 3: Wow, Yeah, what a journey you've been on. What So,

748
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:08,440
Speaker 3: what's life right now?

749
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:09,640
Speaker 5: Just getting back to life?

750
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:12,240
Speaker 4: And you know, I've just turned fifty and the last

751
00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:15,960
Speaker 4: fifty years have been pretty horrifying. So I just really

752
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:18,440
Speaker 4: want the next fifty years to be full of joy

753
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:21,120
Speaker 4: and great experiences, concentrating on my children and my family

754
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:22,080
Speaker 4: and just having fun.

755
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 2: There you go, listen and Carly, fascinating story. Thank you

756
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:29,160
Speaker 2: ever so much, No doubt, no doubt this will save

757
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 2: many lives and help a lot of people.

758
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:32,800
Speaker 3: So thank you for coming in.

759
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:34,160
Speaker 5: Thank you, Anne, thank you very much.

760
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:38,840
Speaker 2: Carl McConkey is the author of the book The Cult Effect.

761
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:41,719
Speaker 2: We'll put a link to it in the show notes.

762
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:45,240
Speaker 2: If you suspect you or someone you know could be

763
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:48,000
Speaker 2: involved in a cult, we'll put the contact details for

764
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:51,840
Speaker 2: the Cult Information and Family Support Network in our show notes.

765
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:55,360
Speaker 3: I'm Att Middleton. Catch you again next time.

766
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:00,240
Speaker 4: Es