1 00:00:01,360 --> 00:00:03,920 Speaker 1: Doctor Bill, welcome back to the You Project, my friend. 2 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:07,520 Speaker 2: How you doing, Craig, It's good to be back. 3 00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:11,360 Speaker 1: We always love chatting with you. We won't go too 4 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:13,600 Speaker 1: far down the rabbit hole like we did a minute ago, 5 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:17,400 Speaker 1: but we'll just I think I have to acknowledge that. 6 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:20,119 Speaker 1: And of course everyone doctor Bill lives in the States. 7 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:23,880 Speaker 1: It's it's we'll just go with It's interesting times over there. 8 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:28,800 Speaker 2: Interesting is a good word, Yeah, well I would, I would, 9 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:33,920 Speaker 2: I would use bizarre world or chaos, but interesting it 10 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 2: is a nice way to put it. Is there? 11 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:39,519 Speaker 1: What is them? I mean, I'm sure there's Let's do 12 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:43,760 Speaker 1: two minutes on this because I'm sure, especially my Australian 13 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:46,280 Speaker 1: listeners wouldn't mind an insight from somebody who's living in 14 00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:48,960 Speaker 1: the middle of I don't know, I don't know what 15 00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:51,519 Speaker 1: I was going to say, chaos, but you're probably not 16 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:54,720 Speaker 1: directly in the chaos, but kind of what's the most 17 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:57,680 Speaker 1: when you say bizarro world, what's the most bizarre to 18 00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 1: you just as a being in the middle or as 19 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 1: an observer of it, But what just kind of blows 20 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:05,039 Speaker 1: your mind that's happening right now? 21 00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:09,200 Speaker 2: Well, I still can't get my head wrapped around the 22 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:12,600 Speaker 2: fact that seventy million people in this country felt comfortable 23 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:16,600 Speaker 2: putting a convicted felon who has a horrible track record 24 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 2: of fraud and you know, malevolence and just abject cruelty 25 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:26,880 Speaker 2: into the office of the president, not to mention his 26 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:34,480 Speaker 2: you know, colossally poor intellect and judgment that is demonstrable. 27 00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:37,800 Speaker 2: I mean, you can just investigate his history for this. 28 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:42,039 Speaker 2: You know, he lives in a different universe and it's 29 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 2: not reality, it's not evidence based, and it's taking this 30 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 2: country right off a cliff to a point, a lawyer 31 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 2: who is utterly unqualified to lead you know, human health 32 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 2: services over here, which controls like our vaccine schedule and 33 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:03,160 Speaker 2: a whole slew of other really critical health decisions, is 34 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:06,680 Speaker 2: just beyond the point of absurdity. I feel like I'm 35 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:09,519 Speaker 2: living in some kind of towilight zone. I mean, a 36 00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:15,359 Speaker 2: responsible leader just does not appoint these outrageously unqualified and 37 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:20,280 Speaker 2: downright dangerous people into positions of power like that He's 38 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:21,680 Speaker 2: going to get people killed. 39 00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:26,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, wow, it's from us. I mean, we just see. 40 00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 1: I think every country in the world is somewhat obsessed 41 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 1: with America, and Australia is no different. I mean, if 42 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:36,840 Speaker 1: we're not talking about us, we're talking about you as 43 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:41,839 Speaker 1: he's probably everyone. But from the outside looking in, it's 44 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:44,680 Speaker 1: I don't even know why, but even people in Australia 45 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 1: are like a bit scared. Some people a bit like 46 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:52,519 Speaker 1: are the world's the world spinning out of control? And 47 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:55,320 Speaker 1: you know, there's always been a bit of like background 48 00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:57,359 Speaker 1: stuff going on and a bit of this sense, and 49 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:02,079 Speaker 1: you know, the outbreak here there, or a minor war 50 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:04,080 Speaker 1: over here, not that there's such a thing as a 51 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:06,680 Speaker 1: minor war, but you know what I mean is and 52 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 1: but right now it just seems like the volume has 53 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:13,480 Speaker 1: been turned up on all the craziness like in the States, 54 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 1: but everywhere. 55 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:18,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, it certainly seems that way, and I think that's 56 00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:23,120 Speaker 2: by design. Like I said, every day there's multiple things 57 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:27,360 Speaker 2: happening that just don't make any sense or we're so outrageous, 58 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:30,240 Speaker 2: you know, you can't believe someone just said that or 59 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:34,359 Speaker 2: someone just did that, and there's no one saying anything 60 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:38,160 Speaker 2: to like normalize or get people back to what used 61 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 2: to be normal. It just seems like we're going more 62 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:45,480 Speaker 2: and more closer to the edge. And yeah, I share 63 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 2: your concern about that. It's not a comfortable feeling. So yeah, 64 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 2: it's it's pretty crazy times. 65 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:56,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's a challenge. It's a challenge for everyone. 66 00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 1: And it's even in Australia. It's not that, but it's. 67 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:03,320 Speaker 1: Australia is an interesting place right now. You may or 68 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:05,119 Speaker 1: may not know this, but we have the dearest real 69 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 1: estate in the world. Like it's it's like in Melbourne 70 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:13,480 Speaker 1: where I live, to buy a property for the average 71 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 1: young person, the average young couple that are twenty five, 72 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:19,839 Speaker 1: thirty thirty five, that just got married, whatever. For the 73 00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:23,479 Speaker 1: average people, they'll never own a home outright. But you 74 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:28,359 Speaker 1: just can't, like a very in Melbourne. An average not 75 00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:30,599 Speaker 1: a good, not a you know, I don't mean not good, 76 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:35,400 Speaker 1: but not nothing. Fancy you run in the mill three bedroom, 77 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 1: one or two bathroom, maybe thirty forty fifty year old 78 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:41,520 Speaker 1: house is going to cost you one to one point 79 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:42,920 Speaker 1: five million dollars. 80 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:45,400 Speaker 2: Wow, that's just insane. 81 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:46,320 Speaker 1: Is that crazy? 82 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:49,120 Speaker 2: Is that causing a lot more people to rent instead 83 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 2: of buying a home? 84 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:52,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, right. 85 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:54,839 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's not good and that people can't save money 86 00:04:54,839 --> 00:04:55,440 Speaker 2: that way. 87 00:04:56,440 --> 00:04:58,559 Speaker 1: Where I live, which is not I mean, it's nice, 88 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 1: but it's not you know, there are some fancy areas. 89 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 1: But down the road from literally five hundred meters from me, 90 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:08,040 Speaker 1: they've just built this new apartment complex. We'll get off 91 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:10,159 Speaker 1: this in a minute, because we just sound like those 92 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:12,279 Speaker 1: two old guys in the Muppets up in the bloody 93 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:13,679 Speaker 1: you know stands. 94 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:17,839 Speaker 2: But everybody loves those two craigs. Keeps done. 95 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:20,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's that's true. That's true. But just down 96 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:25,000 Speaker 1: the road from me, they've built these apartments and they 97 00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:28,240 Speaker 1: start two bedroom apartments. There's two and three, but the 98 00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 1: cheapest apartment you can buy is two bedroom, and it 99 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:34,599 Speaker 1: says it kicks off at between one and three and 100 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:37,960 Speaker 1: one point four million dollars. These are the starting prices 101 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:42,440 Speaker 1: for a two bedroom apartment, which is you know, I 102 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:47,120 Speaker 1: don't know, probably eight squares or something like that, ten 103 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:50,680 Speaker 1: squares maybe, which is like a thousand square feet, you know, 104 00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 1: give or take. I mean, yeah, it's crazy, and it's 105 00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:59,359 Speaker 1: I think, I don't know, it's an interesting time for 106 00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:03,640 Speaker 1: the specie. It's like it's an interesting time for humanity. 107 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:06,280 Speaker 1: Like I'm wondering, one if we're going to be here 108 00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:09,400 Speaker 1: in a hundred years, I don't know, and two if 109 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:11,520 Speaker 1: we are as a species here in one hundred years 110 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:15,840 Speaker 1: what they're going to be saying about this time in history, you. 111 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 2: Know, right right, Well, yeah, I don't think it's going 112 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:21,359 Speaker 2: to be anything good. I think there's going to be 113 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:23,440 Speaker 2: a lot of what the hell were they thinking? Well, 114 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:26,920 Speaker 2: you know, why were they being so stupid and ignoring 115 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:30,920 Speaker 2: you know what scientists and experts are saying about the world, 116 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:33,599 Speaker 2: you know, the dangers that are in front of us, 117 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:39,360 Speaker 2: and then just totally dismissing experts for for charlatans and 118 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:45,760 Speaker 2: you know, conspiracy theorists. It's just really difficult in this 119 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:49,159 Speaker 2: modern day and age to see this kind of medieval 120 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:54,839 Speaker 2: logic resurfacing. You know, it's just kind of it's downright scary, 121 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:56,839 Speaker 2: and if we don't get a handle on it, it could 122 00:06:56,920 --> 00:07:03,159 Speaker 2: really spell disaster, a lot of suffering and death, very unnecessary. 123 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:06,919 Speaker 2: What scares me the most is the increasing inequality, and 124 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 2: this is happening in all countries, where the very few 125 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 2: people who are just ridiculously wealthy are going to get 126 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:23,240 Speaker 2: even wealthier at the expense of people who are trying 127 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:26,440 Speaker 2: to climb out of poverty or just hold their own 128 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 2: in the middle class. I've studied quite a bit of 129 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:35,920 Speaker 2: history on this topic. And every civilization just prior to 130 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:41,320 Speaker 2: falling experience gross inequality that seemed to be one of 131 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:48,240 Speaker 2: the key factors that was a telltale sign of societal collapse. 132 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 2: And it's getting worse every day. So we really need 133 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 2: to rein in this inequality that exists throughout the world 134 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:01,520 Speaker 2: and getting rid of these billionaires. Millionaires should not exist 135 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 2: when we still have people who are starving in this world. 136 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 2: It's just such a gross, you know, distribution of the 137 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:14,640 Speaker 2: world's resources, and it just cannot be sustained. 138 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:21,160 Speaker 1: It must frustrate you as I mean, you're a proper scientist. 139 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 1: I'm not. I'm a summer pretend one. But it like 140 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:29,040 Speaker 1: even for me on social media and people speaking out 141 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:31,680 Speaker 1: about stuff, so I kind of inhabit more the psychology 142 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:35,160 Speaker 1: or the more biology physiology. But when people come out 143 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:40,040 Speaker 1: and they're saying essentially pop psychology bullshitty, you know, misleading 144 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:44,679 Speaker 1: things about whatever about psychology or human behavior or the mind, 145 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:49,000 Speaker 1: or they're trying to you know, they're talking about something significant, 146 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:53,240 Speaker 1: like you know, trauma or grief or and you know, 147 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:56,839 Speaker 1: some three step solution, and I roll my eyes. But 148 00:08:57,559 --> 00:09:00,680 Speaker 1: the truth is that a lot of people don't know 149 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:06,440 Speaker 1: the difference between basically an Instagram post and science or 150 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:10,920 Speaker 1: research or something that's you know, even people who so 151 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:13,520 Speaker 1: my other degree, as you know, is XI science. But 152 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:16,120 Speaker 1: people who will bring to me their supplements or their 153 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:19,720 Speaker 1: you know, a food product and they'll, you know, because 154 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:22,320 Speaker 1: it's got some tick or some star on the front, 155 00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:25,720 Speaker 1: this is good, right, And I'm like, no, let's turn 156 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:27,680 Speaker 1: around and let's look at the back where the actual 157 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:30,400 Speaker 1: information is. And I have to say to people, so, 158 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:32,880 Speaker 1: what's on the front. This is not information. This is 159 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:34,920 Speaker 1: a sales pitch to get you to pick it up 160 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:38,200 Speaker 1: and buy it, right, That's not that's not information. The 161 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 1: information that they don't want you to see is around here. 162 00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:43,079 Speaker 1: I don't know what it is in the state it's 163 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 1: been in Australia. It's in the tiniest font that you 164 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:50,720 Speaker 1: can't read in the bottom right hand or left hand corner. 165 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:54,240 Speaker 1: That they try to make this thing as obscure as 166 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:56,200 Speaker 1: possible because they don't want people to read it or 167 00:09:56,280 --> 00:09:59,160 Speaker 1: understand it or know what they're actually putting in their body. 168 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:02,280 Speaker 1: I feel like that's going on a lot, and not 169 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:06,680 Speaker 1: with just nutritional psychology or exercise, but across the board, 170 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:08,160 Speaker 1: a version of that deception. 171 00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:12,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's and that's that's really where it's at. 172 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:17,320 Speaker 2: It's a deception. And people who market and you know, 173 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:21,439 Speaker 2: profit from this stuff, they're the real villains. It's really 174 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:25,640 Speaker 2: easy to blame people for not thinking or critically evaluating 175 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:29,040 Speaker 2: things because we have a lot of trust in the society. 176 00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:32,240 Speaker 2: That's the way we're supposed to be functioning. But there's 177 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:35,120 Speaker 2: a lot of cheaters, and one of the roles of 178 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:40,760 Speaker 2: government is to neutralize these cheaters. So the real problem 179 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:44,440 Speaker 2: comes back full circle to where we began this conversation, Craig, 180 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:49,120 Speaker 2: is when you put cheaters into government, you really are 181 00:10:49,559 --> 00:10:54,480 Speaker 2: setting society up for an absolute disaster. And that's what 182 00:10:54,559 --> 00:10:55,800 Speaker 2: we've done in this country. 183 00:10:57,720 --> 00:11:00,560 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I don't know whether to make one maniac 184 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:03,119 Speaker 1: steering this sheep. 185 00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:08,800 Speaker 2: Never is a good idea as a leader in politics, 186 00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:13,600 Speaker 2: in business, or in academia. It's just bad news any 187 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:15,080 Speaker 2: which way you try to slice it. 188 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:21,079 Speaker 1: M Well, speaking of bad news, Uh, speaking of bad news, 189 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:25,480 Speaker 1: what about this article that you wrote, A common parasite 190 00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:33,320 Speaker 1: can decapitate human sperm with implications? Well, male fertility and 191 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:36,880 Speaker 1: sperm count has been plumbing for decades, hasn't it, And 192 00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:41,240 Speaker 1: so give us a synopsis of the article that you wrote, 193 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:41,920 Speaker 1: if you would doc. 194 00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:45,640 Speaker 2: So, yeah, before we I'm going to get right into that, 195 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:48,360 Speaker 2: but I'm going to frame this as good news because 196 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:52,240 Speaker 2: we've learned something here. You know, these studies are telling 197 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:55,640 Speaker 2: us something important and there's things we can do to 198 00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:58,840 Speaker 2: prevent getting this infection. So we're going to spin this as, hey, 199 00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:03,079 Speaker 2: this is remarkable finding, disturbing, but remarkable, and now we 200 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:04,600 Speaker 2: know what to do. 201 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:08,600 Speaker 1: And that's why you're the that's why you're the professor, 202 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:09,520 Speaker 1: and I'm the student. 203 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:14,040 Speaker 2: That's well, you're getting your PhD sudents so you can 204 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:20,280 Speaker 2: take me to school. But it also underscores you know, 205 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:22,559 Speaker 2: you say, we went down a rabbit hole with our 206 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:26,280 Speaker 2: little discussion, but it's really important and people in the 207 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:29,240 Speaker 2: States and other places in the world need to realize 208 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:33,640 Speaker 2: how important funding of basic science research is. It's what 209 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:37,720 Speaker 2: produces results like the one we're going to talk about today, 210 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:42,400 Speaker 2: so that society can take action to protect themselves from 211 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:47,000 Speaker 2: potential danger. The administration we have in the States has 212 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:50,679 Speaker 2: proposed it hasn't passed yet, but they propose to slash 213 00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:54,720 Speaker 2: biomedical research funding. This is the funding that allows me 214 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:57,120 Speaker 2: to go to work and do experiments. They want to 215 00:12:57,160 --> 00:13:00,200 Speaker 2: cut it forty four percent so they can have more 216 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:04,320 Speaker 2: money to feed these billionaires, you know, and this is 217 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:07,839 Speaker 2: just devastating to everybody. So I can say that from 218 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:10,440 Speaker 2: a very selfish angle. It's going to hurt me in 219 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 2: my lab. I might have to fire students or postdocs 220 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:15,960 Speaker 2: as a result of this, Okay if it passes, and 221 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:20,520 Speaker 2: that's just heartbreaking to me. But think about, you know, 222 00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:24,280 Speaker 2: the things that many scientific labs in the States are 223 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:27,200 Speaker 2: going to produce over the next couple of years. Yeah, 224 00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:30,480 Speaker 2: you know, all sorts of wonderful things that could advance 225 00:13:30,559 --> 00:13:35,160 Speaker 2: treatments towards everything from Alzheimer's to zecravirus and everything in between. 226 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:38,320 Speaker 2: And that's just not going to happen if the budget 227 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:42,800 Speaker 2: gets slashed almost fifty percent. It's just insanity. And it's 228 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 2: even further insanity when you look at the money that 229 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:52,160 Speaker 2: science gets. It actually produces almost a three percent profit 230 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:55,200 Speaker 2: of economic activity in return. I mean, if you're going 231 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:58,360 Speaker 2: to invest your government dollars in something, scientific research is 232 00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:03,160 Speaker 2: the most economically viable choice. So that's my soapbox. I'll 233 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:04,040 Speaker 2: get off it for now. 234 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:05,120 Speaker 1: No, I love it. 235 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:09,520 Speaker 2: Well, might get into we'll get into the study. That 236 00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:13,800 Speaker 2: underscores how important it is that scientists are in their 237 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:18,280 Speaker 2: labs and working on problems like this common parasite, which 238 00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:22,680 Speaker 2: we have talked about before. But for those of you 239 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:26,480 Speaker 2: you know, who haven't heard of Tosoplasma GANDHII, this is 240 00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:30,040 Speaker 2: a parasite that's infected anywhere from thirty to fifty percent 241 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:33,680 Speaker 2: of the world's population. That's a huge number of people. 242 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:37,600 Speaker 2: We're talking billions now. Doesn't make people sick, you know, 243 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:41,640 Speaker 2: unless you're severely immune compromised, but it stays with you 244 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:45,680 Speaker 2: for life, gets into your brains as a cyst, gets 245 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:48,440 Speaker 2: into your heart and scale to muscle. And what this 246 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:50,960 Speaker 2: study that you alluded to, Craig, has just shown is 247 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:57,000 Speaker 2: that it can get into male testicles and possibly be 248 00:14:57,320 --> 00:15:01,560 Speaker 2: affecting male fertility, which, as you said, over the past 249 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:09,160 Speaker 2: decades has just nosedived and scientists have absolutely no idea why. 250 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:12,760 Speaker 2: And to put that problem into perspective, here's one of 251 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:18,080 Speaker 2: the statistics. Male infertility rates have increased nearly eighty percent 252 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 2: from nineteen ninety to twenty nineteen. Now that's crazy, and 253 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:27,880 Speaker 2: you know that is something that should alarm everyone, and 254 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:30,920 Speaker 2: it's something that scientists have really got to investigate more 255 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:33,680 Speaker 2: rigorously because we have no idea what the hell's going on? 256 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:39,880 Speaker 1: What about I know not much about this, well next 257 00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:43,760 Speaker 1: to nothing, But I heard somebody talking about a correlation 258 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:49,720 Speaker 1: between plastics and thallites, you know, and all of the 259 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:53,040 Speaker 1: leeching from plastic into foods and into water bottles and 260 00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:56,040 Speaker 1: into things that we cook in, and that in part 261 00:15:56,440 --> 00:16:02,359 Speaker 1: having an impact on you know, testosterone levels and fertility 262 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:04,880 Speaker 1: and sperm count and all of those things. Is that 263 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:06,320 Speaker 1: anything in. 264 00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:11,600 Speaker 2: That, Yeah, there's a lot of evidence to that effect. 265 00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:15,360 Speaker 2: What you're referring to are so called endocrine disruptors, and 266 00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 2: these are chemicals that can get into our bodies and 267 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:21,960 Speaker 2: they're so called forever chemicals, so once they get out 268 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:25,800 Speaker 2: into the environment, they're very slow to break down, so 269 00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:29,000 Speaker 2: they're kind of out there for good. And you know, 270 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 2: they get into our tissues and disrupt our hormones, and 271 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:37,040 Speaker 2: that can clearly have an effect on fertility, and in 272 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:39,840 Speaker 2: some cases it seems to be heritable, you know, so 273 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:43,040 Speaker 2: if you do have a child, the next generation seems 274 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:46,960 Speaker 2: to be disadvantaged with respect to propagating the species. It's 275 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:50,880 Speaker 2: pretty scary. But some of the other more common culprits 276 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:56,320 Speaker 2: are obesity, poor diet, like malnutrition. You know, people eat 277 00:16:56,360 --> 00:16:58,800 Speaker 2: a lot of calories, but they're not necessarily getting the 278 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:02,440 Speaker 2: nutrients they need. That can affect fertility for sure for 279 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:05,800 Speaker 2: men and women. And then of course environmental toxins, which 280 00:17:05,840 --> 00:17:09,320 Speaker 2: includes the chemicals that you are talking about and a 281 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:11,520 Speaker 2: whole slew of other ones. You know, there's so many 282 00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:16,320 Speaker 2: candidates out there that could be potentially hurting fertility. It's 283 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:20,639 Speaker 2: really hard to, uh, you know, pinpoint which one or 284 00:17:20,840 --> 00:17:24,000 Speaker 2: which group is doing the most damage. And of course 285 00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:28,040 Speaker 2: it could be a combination of all these things. Microplastics 286 00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:31,600 Speaker 2: is coming into the picture now as another potential danger, 287 00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:38,280 Speaker 2: but what gets underappreciated are infectious diseases. They could also 288 00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:42,560 Speaker 2: be contributing to this problem, probably not to the same 289 00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:48,960 Speaker 2: extent as some environmental toxin or you know, bad health. Yes, 290 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:51,400 Speaker 2: but I don't think it can be ignored, especially after 291 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:53,879 Speaker 2: we go over some of the results you know of 292 00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:57,080 Speaker 2: this paper and studies that led up to it. But 293 00:17:57,200 --> 00:18:01,880 Speaker 2: infectious diseases like toxoplasma, which like microplastics, kind of get 294 00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:04,879 Speaker 2: in us and stay with us for life, but also 295 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:08,400 Speaker 2: kind of rita and chlamydia. These are sexually transmitted diseases 296 00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:15,360 Speaker 2: that have a clear role in decreasing fertility or damaging fertility, 297 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:20,160 Speaker 2: and they're just not emphasized enough part of the equation 298 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:23,320 Speaker 2: and they just need to be talked about more. 299 00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:27,800 Speaker 1: Is before we jump into the specifics of your article. 300 00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:31,199 Speaker 1: If you've got a cat, everyone get rid of it. 301 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:38,600 Speaker 2: We don't want to do that. I'll be here to 302 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:42,400 Speaker 2: give you some guidelines on how to safely maintain a cat. 303 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:45,960 Speaker 1: All right, what about important? 304 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:47,960 Speaker 2: Why you said that? You know, we do have to 305 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:49,160 Speaker 2: talk about why you said that. 306 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:51,399 Speaker 1: We'll definitely talk about why I said that. But my 307 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:55,200 Speaker 1: last one before I get out of your why is 308 00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:57,359 Speaker 1: is it would seem to me, I don't know if 309 00:18:57,400 --> 00:19:00,440 Speaker 1: we just talk about it more or there's a higher 310 00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:04,600 Speaker 1: incidence of people who don't seem to sleep well people 311 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:07,600 Speaker 1: there seems to be maybe there's just more awareness, but 312 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:10,760 Speaker 1: I think there's a high prevalence of anxiety and stress 313 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:13,800 Speaker 1: and mental health issues. I would think that would be 314 00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:18,040 Speaker 1: that would have an impact on the endo crime system 315 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:21,800 Speaker 1: as well, like poor sleep, inadequate sleep, you know, chronically 316 00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:25,880 Speaker 1: over time, so those things also would have a negative 317 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:26,919 Speaker 1: correlation peraps. 318 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:32,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, no question about it. I think they're all interrelated, 319 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:34,679 Speaker 2: you know, to an extent. I mean, if you just 320 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:37,600 Speaker 2: look at like poor diet and lack of exercise, that's 321 00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:40,440 Speaker 2: going to snowball into a lot of other risk factors 322 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:45,600 Speaker 2: like obesity, some of the chemicals and ultraposit processed food. 323 00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:49,600 Speaker 2: And you know, without exercise, you don't you know where 324 00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:52,359 Speaker 2: the body out enough to get a good night sleep. 325 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:55,400 Speaker 2: That can also be detrimental. So yeah, it all kind 326 00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:57,159 Speaker 2: of relates and snowballs together. 327 00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:01,399 Speaker 1: All right, So toxoplasma gone, y'all are the suspect in 328 00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:04,880 Speaker 1: the middle of all of this, all right? The focus 329 00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:05,840 Speaker 1: of today's. 330 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:13,160 Speaker 2: Chat, a potentially new contributor to the male infertility problem 331 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:16,280 Speaker 2: is what this new study that came out in April 332 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:19,480 Speaker 2: is suggesting. And we do want to take it with 333 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:23,800 Speaker 2: a grain of salt. You know, it's still very preliminary research, 334 00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:28,879 Speaker 2: but it's intriguing enough to warrant discussion and in my mind, 335 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:33,879 Speaker 2: much larger serious studies to see if there's some truth 336 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:40,639 Speaker 2: to toxoplasma possibly contributing to the male infertility problem. So 337 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:44,160 Speaker 2: a little bit about toxoplasma first, just as a quick 338 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:49,080 Speaker 2: review for people who don't listen to me being on 339 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:51,240 Speaker 2: your podcast in the past, which they should go do. 340 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:56,280 Speaker 2: Toxoplasma is transmitted in a number of ways, and that's 341 00:20:56,320 --> 00:21:00,159 Speaker 2: why it is so predominant throughout the human species. Like 342 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 2: we said, billions of people are infected because there's three 343 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:07,800 Speaker 2: major routes of infection, the first of which is the cat. 344 00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:11,960 Speaker 2: So cats are the only organism where the parasite undergoes 345 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:16,600 Speaker 2: its sexual stages. So when cats go to the bathroom, 346 00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:21,120 Speaker 2: they're releasing parasite eggs into the litter box, the sandbox, 347 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:25,399 Speaker 2: or the environment, so they can contaminate the food and 348 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:29,240 Speaker 2: water chain when they're infected with this parasite, and cat 349 00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:32,959 Speaker 2: owners can become infected if they don't promptly clean their 350 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:39,320 Speaker 2: litter box and wash their hands very thoroughly afterwards. Kids 351 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:41,680 Speaker 2: playing in the yard or sandbox can pick it up, 352 00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:45,119 Speaker 2: you know, people who garden can pick it up if 353 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:48,680 Speaker 2: a cat's been in the garden unwashed. Fruits and vegetables 354 00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:52,359 Speaker 2: are a source of these parasite eggs, and these eggs, 355 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:55,440 Speaker 2: once they're released into the environment are stable for one 356 00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:59,160 Speaker 2: to two years, so they don't go away quickly. They 357 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:04,160 Speaker 2: also contaminate water, so filter feeders like shellfish, clams, and oysters. 358 00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:08,680 Speaker 2: They will trap these oasis into the tissues that people eat. 359 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:12,840 Speaker 2: So if you eat raw shellfish, you're basically inoculating yourself 360 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:18,160 Speaker 2: with this huge dose of toxoplasma. Eggs not a good idea. 361 00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:22,159 Speaker 2: So that's just from the cat. Any animal gets infected, 362 00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:26,920 Speaker 2: and like I said before, the parasite insists in brain, heart, 363 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:31,320 Speaker 2: muscle tissue. So if we have raw or undercooked meat 364 00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:37,480 Speaker 2: almost any animal, pork, lamb, venison, steak, there's a chance 365 00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:40,400 Speaker 2: that toxoplasma could infect you that way if you don't 366 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:46,320 Speaker 2: properly cook that animal. And then there's a really tragic 367 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:51,600 Speaker 2: rout of transmission congenital transmission. This is mother to child. 368 00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:56,280 Speaker 2: So the reason why doctors tell people while they're pregnant 369 00:22:56,680 --> 00:23:00,800 Speaker 2: not to change the litter box is because of talk plasma. 370 00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:05,920 Speaker 2: If a woman becomes infected for the first time during 371 00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:11,040 Speaker 2: her pregnancy, that can lead to miscarriage or congenital birth defects, 372 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:17,400 Speaker 2: and those can be quite devastating. Vision impairment, cognitive defects, defects, 373 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:22,119 Speaker 2: and motor skills. It really runs the gamut. So three 374 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:27,240 Speaker 2: major routes of transmission make toxoplasma a really common parasite. 375 00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:29,159 Speaker 2: And then on top of all of that, there's no 376 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:31,760 Speaker 2: way to cure it. We can't get this parasite out 377 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:35,320 Speaker 2: of our brains or out of our bodies. We can 378 00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:40,200 Speaker 2: control acute episodes of infection, so if the parasite reactivates 379 00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:43,880 Speaker 2: and starts causing brain damage or heart damage, there are 380 00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:47,639 Speaker 2: medications that people can take that will put the parasite 381 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:52,240 Speaker 2: into remission. You know, those can be life saving drugs. Unfortunately, though, 382 00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:55,160 Speaker 2: they don't get rid of the parasite, they just put 383 00:23:55,160 --> 00:24:00,240 Speaker 2: it into remission. So when we're talking about this fertility problem, 384 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:05,840 Speaker 2: you know, toxoplasma can get into men and one of 385 00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:09,919 Speaker 2: the areas that this parasite likes to go to, and 386 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:12,800 Speaker 2: this has been confirmed not only in humans, but in 387 00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:17,440 Speaker 2: rodent models like mice and rats as well as a 388 00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:21,200 Speaker 2: few other species. This parasite goes to the testes within 389 00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:27,240 Speaker 2: two days of infection, so it's really remarkable to be 390 00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:31,520 Speaker 2: aware of that. So that's not good news. You know, 391 00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:34,800 Speaker 2: if you're a guy and have these parasites that just 392 00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:37,040 Speaker 2: kind of stay in your balls for the rest of 393 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:40,719 Speaker 2: your life, you know, it's not a good situation. And 394 00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:46,480 Speaker 2: it raises the question if this parasite can invade male 395 00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:51,200 Speaker 2: reproductive organs. Does it have an effect on fertility? Could 396 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:55,119 Speaker 2: it be contributing to this massive decline that we are 397 00:24:55,200 --> 00:25:00,159 Speaker 2: seeing in male infertility. So that's what this news that 398 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:03,639 Speaker 2: he tried to address. But it was but it was 399 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:06,800 Speaker 2: it didn't, you know, just come out of the ether 400 00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:09,359 Speaker 2: all of a sudden. There have been other studies done 401 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:16,760 Speaker 2: suggestive that toxoplasma could have some effect on fertility. So 402 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:19,600 Speaker 2: in one of the studies my own lab did, in 403 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:24,400 Speaker 2: collaboration with a few of my buddies at Indiana University 404 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,600 Speaker 2: School of Medicine, we found for the first time that 405 00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:32,080 Speaker 2: toxoplasma can insist in the prostate too, So you have 406 00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:36,320 Speaker 2: these parasite cysts sitting in the prostate and it actually 407 00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:43,359 Speaker 2: induces a sustained inflammatory response. So inflammation of the prostate 408 00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:49,040 Speaker 2: is one of the precursors to prostate cancer. So again 409 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:52,560 Speaker 2: this is not good news either. I wanted to call 410 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:56,919 Speaker 2: that paper great balls of Fire, but wouldn't let me 411 00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:00,840 Speaker 2: do it. It was, you know, this parasite's called inflammation 412 00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:04,760 Speaker 2: in the prostate. But you know, and that was in 413 00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:07,520 Speaker 2: just twenty seventeen, So these are really new discoveries. Craig 414 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:09,720 Speaker 2: and a lot more work needs to be done, but 415 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:12,240 Speaker 2: I think there's enough data in place right now that 416 00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:14,280 Speaker 2: says we've got to look at this problem a lot 417 00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:17,240 Speaker 2: more seriously and give it a lot more attention. We 418 00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:20,359 Speaker 2: certainly don't want to defund science up to fifty percent 419 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:25,240 Speaker 2: at this point. But toxo has been found, you know, 420 00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:29,560 Speaker 2: in the semen of a variety of animals, including humans, 421 00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:34,000 Speaker 2: so you know it's in the ejaculate, which raises another 422 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:41,159 Speaker 2: rather terrifying question. Is toxoplasma sexually transmitted? We don't have 423 00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:46,560 Speaker 2: an answer for that, but the possibility is there. Perhaps 424 00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:53,359 Speaker 2: during acute episodes they don't last too long, but during 425 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:57,520 Speaker 2: that window there is a possibility with toxoplasma being present 426 00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:01,480 Speaker 2: in semen, it could be sexually admit it, you know, 427 00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:08,160 Speaker 2: another another reason to engage in safe sex. So yeah, yes, sorry, 428 00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:09,240 Speaker 2: go ahead and rambling. 429 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:11,000 Speaker 1: Go on here, I'm just trying to Yeah, I'm not 430 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:13,280 Speaker 1: terrified at all. Now, thanks for all of that. Back 431 00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:14,600 Speaker 1: in the therapy for harps. 432 00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:15,919 Speaker 2: That's what I'm here for. 433 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:18,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, no good, just to come and terrorize me in 434 00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:22,120 Speaker 1: the masses. Okay, so a couple of things. I don't 435 00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:25,840 Speaker 1: even know what questions to ask, but here's one. So 436 00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:29,040 Speaker 1: thirty to fifty percent of people listening to their show 437 00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:37,640 Speaker 1: statistically have got toxoplasma gondie. So right, statistically, Yeah, yeah. 438 00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:40,720 Speaker 2: In Australia, I believe the numbers hover around twenty five 439 00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:41,520 Speaker 2: to thirty percent. 440 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:45,439 Speaker 1: Okay, And I mean you may or may not know 441 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:47,520 Speaker 1: the answer to this, but of the you know, if 442 00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:50,200 Speaker 1: we get ten people who have got it, how many 443 00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:54,879 Speaker 1: of them will ever show any symptoms or or be 444 00:27:55,800 --> 00:28:00,360 Speaker 1: you know, detrimentally affected, like there's some physical problem that 445 00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:01,720 Speaker 1: is because of that. 446 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:04,800 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, no, that's a great question. And it depends 447 00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:09,199 Speaker 2: if they were congenitally infected, which means they acquired it 448 00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:13,800 Speaker 2: during birth. Yeah, those individuals tend to have problems throughout 449 00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:16,760 Speaker 2: the rest of their lives. The parasite reactivates from time 450 00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:19,480 Speaker 2: to time, and every time it does so, it does 451 00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:23,680 Speaker 2: brain damage, it does eye damage, It can inflame the heart. 452 00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:27,480 Speaker 2: Who knows, it might be damaging male reproductive organs as well, 453 00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:29,880 Speaker 2: based on what we've been learning very recently. 454 00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:33,960 Speaker 1: So and when people have episodes where things get in 455 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:37,240 Speaker 1: like what's the treatment, Like what do they. 456 00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:42,320 Speaker 2: Do when you have an acute case of toxoplasmosis? There 457 00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:45,800 Speaker 2: are drugs called antifolates that the person can take and 458 00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:50,320 Speaker 2: they get the parasite under control fairly quickly, they'll stop 459 00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:56,320 Speaker 2: it from growing, and they'll retreat back into these insistent forms. Now, unfortunately, 460 00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:58,880 Speaker 2: the antifolates and no other drug that we know of 461 00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:03,360 Speaker 2: can get rid of the inc form. So that's the 462 00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:04,480 Speaker 2: obstacle to treatment. 463 00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:10,240 Speaker 1: I love this. So twenty twenty five study exposed human 464 00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:13,920 Speaker 1: sperm to T. Goondii in vitro. Twenty two point four 465 00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:18,800 Speaker 1: percent of sperm lose their heads, that is, and then 466 00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:23,440 Speaker 1: it says in brackets that is decapitated in just five minutes. Well, 467 00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:27,800 Speaker 1: do we have to bring the word decapitated? So that's 468 00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:32,080 Speaker 1: in vitro? Is that also representative in vivo? Like, is 469 00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:36,160 Speaker 1: that that happen you know, out of the lab as well? 470 00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:37,000 Speaker 1: Or we're not sure? 471 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:41,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, that that's that's something that needs to be followed up. 472 00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:46,120 Speaker 2: But there is evidence that animals that are infected with 473 00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:51,880 Speaker 2: toxoplasma have deformed sperm. Wow, up until the new study 474 00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:54,720 Speaker 2: that you just mentioned, all of this was done in 475 00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:59,479 Speaker 2: other species. Okay, However, there were a couple studies that 476 00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:03,560 Speaker 2: were really interesting here that kind of led the group 477 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:08,200 Speaker 2: to look at this question. There was a small two 478 00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:11,719 Speaker 2: thousand and five study that was done in China and 479 00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:15,680 Speaker 2: it found that sterile men are more likely to test 480 00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:22,320 Speaker 2: positive for toxoplasma than fertile men. So interesting correlation, but 481 00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:25,720 Speaker 2: a small study. There was another small study done in 482 00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:29,640 Speaker 2: twenty twenty one in Czechoslovakia. Just about one hundred and 483 00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:33,320 Speaker 2: fifty men or so, all of them were infected with 484 00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:35,959 Speaker 2: toxoplasma and they looked at their semen, they looked at 485 00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:40,760 Speaker 2: their sperm, and eighty six percent of them had defects 486 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:45,520 Speaker 2: in their sperm. Now there's there's not a direct test there. 487 00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:48,560 Speaker 2: That's what the new study addresses. You know, the study 488 00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:52,760 Speaker 2: that was just done that that I just mentioned in 489 00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:58,120 Speaker 2: Czechoslovakia showed a correlation, didn't show that toxoplasma was responsible 490 00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:03,880 Speaker 2: for those defects in the sperm. So that's where this 491 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:06,480 Speaker 2: new study came into play. And that's the new factor 492 00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:09,560 Speaker 2: that it contributed. It said, all right, well, let's just 493 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:13,240 Speaker 2: cut to the chase. Let's take some toxoplasma parasites, mix 494 00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:16,800 Speaker 2: them with some live human sperm in a test tube 495 00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:19,560 Speaker 2: and see what happens. You know, maybe the parasites don't 496 00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:22,440 Speaker 2: do anything to the sperm. But that wasn't true. Like 497 00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:26,320 Speaker 2: you said, almost a quarter of the sperm lost their heads, 498 00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:30,320 Speaker 2: so they're dead. You know that sperm would be dead. 499 00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:33,840 Speaker 2: That's not a reversible feature. But if you go to 500 00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:37,600 Speaker 2: the article that I wrote, you'll see some really awful 501 00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:41,200 Speaker 2: pictures of what these parasites have done to the sperm. 502 00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:44,320 Speaker 2: You will see if the sperm manages to keep its 503 00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:48,240 Speaker 2: head okay, it'll usually have a hole in it where 504 00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:51,640 Speaker 2: the parasite tried to invade that sperm cell okay, and 505 00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:54,920 Speaker 2: then just left this gaping hole in the sperm head. 506 00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:56,240 Speaker 2: That can't be good. 507 00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:59,960 Speaker 1: The tails, I'm nice, sperm ex I'm nice. 508 00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:05,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that can't be good. The tails of the sperm, 509 00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:08,520 Speaker 2: which are critical for the sperm being able to move 510 00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:11,520 Speaker 2: and get to the egg. They're all bent out of shape, 511 00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:14,360 Speaker 2: you know, kind of looping back around. They look like 512 00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:18,280 Speaker 2: they're almost snapped in places. The parasite's doing some really 513 00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:22,280 Speaker 2: serious damage to both the head and the tail of 514 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:26,680 Speaker 2: these sperms. So it's not unreasonable to question, once you 515 00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:31,360 Speaker 2: see the devastation as parasite can inflict on sperm, that 516 00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:36,760 Speaker 2: it's going to lead to troubles in fertility. To what degree, Well, 517 00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:40,640 Speaker 2: that still remains to be answered. You know, we don't 518 00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:44,600 Speaker 2: know this. Sometimes maybe a misshape and sperm can still 519 00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:47,320 Speaker 2: get to the egg and it's not a problem. But 520 00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:51,240 Speaker 2: that is a question that needs to be more closely 521 00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:54,440 Speaker 2: looked at. And we also don't know, like you said, 522 00:32:54,480 --> 00:33:01,400 Speaker 2: in vivo in the body, can toxoplasma parasites gain access 523 00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:05,040 Speaker 2: to sperm cells to do the type of damage that 524 00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:09,200 Speaker 2: we saw in the test tube. That's really hard to address. 525 00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:13,040 Speaker 2: But we do know for a fact that toxoplasma can 526 00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:17,120 Speaker 2: invade the testes. It can get into the testicles, and 527 00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:20,000 Speaker 2: the new study showed evidence that it also gets into 528 00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:24,880 Speaker 2: a tube called the epididymous. This is where sperm cells 529 00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:30,560 Speaker 2: mature and get stored. So if toxoplasma can get access 530 00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:36,400 Speaker 2: to that tube, it could come in direct contact with sperm. Now, 531 00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:40,800 Speaker 2: something we want to get across so that people aren't 532 00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:45,360 Speaker 2: freaking out here, is that toxoplasma is not in its 533 00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:49,120 Speaker 2: active state, you know, for very long. You know, if 534 00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:53,840 Speaker 2: people become infected, you're usually you know, you usually can't 535 00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:55,720 Speaker 2: even tell, you don't get a lot of symptoms. But 536 00:33:55,760 --> 00:34:00,280 Speaker 2: the parasite develops into its cyst form very quickly, so 537 00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:04,120 Speaker 2: there's not free parasites floating around in your body all 538 00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:08,000 Speaker 2: the time. It would probably be limited to seven to 539 00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:11,960 Speaker 2: fourteen days maximum where you might have free parasites in 540 00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:16,600 Speaker 2: your body before they're all in the insisted stage. So 541 00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:20,239 Speaker 2: it's hard to believe that once they're in the late 542 00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:22,760 Speaker 2: and CIS stage that a lot of this sperm damage 543 00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:26,160 Speaker 2: could be happening. But like I said before, we did 544 00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:29,799 Speaker 2: show that at least in the prostate, even in its 545 00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:34,359 Speaker 2: insistent form, there's a sustained low level of inflammation in 546 00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:39,879 Speaker 2: these organs, and inflammation in male reproductive organs has been 547 00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:45,120 Speaker 2: linked to infertility as well, So that's another mechanism by 548 00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:50,560 Speaker 2: which toxoplasma could be adversely affecting fertility, not coming into 549 00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:56,680 Speaker 2: contact with sperm directly, but just by inducing inflammation down 550 00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:57,880 Speaker 2: in the gonad region. 551 00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:03,600 Speaker 1: Oh, this is just ruined my hall day. I don't know. 552 00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:05,960 Speaker 1: I don't know if I'm going to be able to think. 553 00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:08,000 Speaker 1: I have to kind of have a lie down and 554 00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:12,080 Speaker 1: kill the cat. No, I'm not everyone, I'm joking everyone. 555 00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:13,840 Speaker 1: I don't have a cat. If I did, I wouldn't 556 00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:19,280 Speaker 1: kill it. I wonder if there's like a a toxoplasma 557 00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:24,120 Speaker 1: dose threshold needed to harm sperm because it's got maybe 558 00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:27,080 Speaker 1: under a certain point it doesn't do damage. But I 559 00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:29,000 Speaker 1: don't know. I don't even know if that makes sense. 560 00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:32,600 Speaker 2: But that makes that makes perfect sense. That's one of 561 00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:35,000 Speaker 2: the variables that needs to be tested in a future 562 00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:39,520 Speaker 2: study because at the moment, you know, how do you 563 00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:42,720 Speaker 2: know that the number of parasites that you put into 564 00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:45,880 Speaker 2: that test tube with the sperm is anything close to 565 00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:49,840 Speaker 2: what actually happens in the body. That's an unanswered question. 566 00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:53,919 Speaker 2: We don't know that this is an artificial setup, right, 567 00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:57,760 Speaker 2: and it's just to assess. It's to just answer the question, 568 00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:03,160 Speaker 2: Ken toxoplasma damaged sperm, does it do it in the body? Maybe? 569 00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:10,920 Speaker 1: Okay, So managing catlet a personal hygiene, washing fruit and veggies, produce, 570 00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:18,200 Speaker 1: cooking meat, thoroughly avoiding raw shellfish, shout out to the 571 00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:24,319 Speaker 1: shellfish eaters, and obviously just good hygiene in general. Are 572 00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:28,360 Speaker 1: they that? Are they that kind of preventative pieces of advice? 573 00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:32,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, you said that just as well as I do. 574 00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:37,080 Speaker 2: You must have heard about toxoplasma before from somebody who 575 00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:37,480 Speaker 2: could that. 576 00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:40,800 Speaker 1: Or I might have notes on an article that you wrote. 577 00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:43,800 Speaker 1: So I will I will take none of your praise. 578 00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:48,480 Speaker 1: I just I just read what you wrote. And but 579 00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:52,920 Speaker 1: also I mean, and I know telling someone not to 580 00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:56,960 Speaker 1: worry doesn't stop anyone from worrying. But I mean, this 581 00:36:57,000 --> 00:37:01,120 Speaker 1: is something that's been around. It's prevalent anyway, you know, 582 00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:04,520 Speaker 1: half an hour earlier than right now, our audience, so 583 00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:07,880 Speaker 1: many of them didn't know about it. So it's nothing 584 00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:11,040 Speaker 1: to panic about, but just rather something to be aware of. 585 00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:15,400 Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, if you follow the simple steps that Craig 586 00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:19,800 Speaker 2: just outlined, your chances of getting toxoplasma go way down, 587 00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:23,200 Speaker 2: so you really don't have anything to worry about if 588 00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:26,440 Speaker 2: you take those simple precautions, and you know, it's not 589 00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:30,040 Speaker 2: much of a big ask, so you'll be fine. And 590 00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:33,040 Speaker 2: there's other reasons why you don't want toxoplasma. You know, 591 00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:37,040 Speaker 2: we already talked about congenital infection. But this parasite insists 592 00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:39,880 Speaker 2: in your brain, and there's evidence that it could cause 593 00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:44,840 Speaker 2: personality and behavioral changes. There's links to schizophrenia, links to 594 00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:47,960 Speaker 2: rage disorder. It's just a bad parasite to have in 595 00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:51,319 Speaker 2: your body, despite the fact that most people do. So 596 00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:55,680 Speaker 2: we are trying to do our best with educational campaigns 597 00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:59,319 Speaker 2: to minimize transmission of this parasite, and they do seem 598 00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:02,479 Speaker 2: to be working in a lot of countries around the world. 599 00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:05,920 Speaker 2: In the States, for example, toxoplasma zero prevalence used to 600 00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:09,759 Speaker 2: be twenty five percent in the nineties and the two thousands, 601 00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:13,600 Speaker 2: and the latest figures, now that more people know about it, 602 00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:17,120 Speaker 2: show in the United States toxoplasma zero prevalence is down 603 00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:21,120 Speaker 2: to about eleven percent, So you know these these educational 604 00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:25,000 Speaker 2: campaigns work. France used to have a zero prevalence of 605 00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:30,080 Speaker 2: ninety percent. Wow, isn't that crazy? Almost everybody in France 606 00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:33,440 Speaker 2: used to be infected with this parasite, but the latest 607 00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:36,960 Speaker 2: numbers show that's down to fifty percent. So we're making 608 00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:40,560 Speaker 2: a lot of progress, not with new cures, but just 609 00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:41,719 Speaker 2: with prevention. 610 00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:46,120 Speaker 1: Perfect Now you can find that article. It is a 611 00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:49,600 Speaker 1: really good article. It's on the Conversation and the website 612 00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:54,960 Speaker 1: address is all one word, the conversation dot com and 613 00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:58,360 Speaker 1: the name of the article is a common parasite that 614 00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:03,640 Speaker 1: can decapitite human sperm with implications for male fertility, and 615 00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:06,080 Speaker 1: that's written on May twenty eight, So go have a 616 00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:09,000 Speaker 1: look at that. And also for some of you, obviously 617 00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:13,600 Speaker 1: you might want to share this conversation perhaps with somebody 618 00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:17,040 Speaker 1: who you think might find it interesting, if not a 619 00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:19,920 Speaker 1: little terrifying, send it to them anyway. But also that 620 00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:24,760 Speaker 1: article is on the conversation dot com. We appreciate you, Doc, 621 00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:28,839 Speaker 1: It's always enlightening, a little bit scary, and a lot 622 00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:29,879 Speaker 1: of fun to chat with. 623 00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:33,279 Speaker 2: You well as always thanks for having me on, Craig 624 00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:34,440 Speaker 2: It's great to be here. 625 00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:37,400 Speaker 1: And before we go, if people want to find you, 626 00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:39,960 Speaker 1: follow you, connect with you, read more of your work 627 00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:42,480 Speaker 1: where and how can they do that? 628 00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:46,799 Speaker 2: Yeah, they can simply go to my website Wwwauthor Bill 629 00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:48,839 Speaker 2: Sullivan dot com. 630 00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:50,680 Speaker 1: Perfect. Thanks Doc, see you next time.