WEBVTT - Torture, nightmares and freedom: Ian Muldoon Pt. 2

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<v Speaker 1>The public has had a long held fascination with detectives.

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<v Speaker 1>Detective sy aside of life the average person is never

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<v Speaker 1>exposed to. I spent thirty four years as a cop.

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<v Speaker 1>For twenty five of those years I was catching killers.

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<v Speaker 1>That's what I did for a living. I was a

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<v Speaker 1>homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated.

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<v Speaker 1>The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories

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<v Speaker 1>from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw

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<v Speaker 1>and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some

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<v Speaker 1>of the content and language might be confronting. That's because

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<v Speaker 1>no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged.

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<v Speaker 1>Join me now as I take you into this world. Ian,

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<v Speaker 1>welcome back to part two. Thank you if I catch killers.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm digesting some of the things that you're saying. And

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<v Speaker 1>I look at you sit here, looking at you, and

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<v Speaker 1>we talked of off camera a little bit during the

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<v Speaker 1>break and how intimidating an environment that would have to be.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Yeah, Like I said, words can't describe. It's very

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<v Speaker 2>hard to, you know, deal with everything.

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<v Speaker 1>And I would imagine the emotional angst about what the

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<v Speaker 1>hell am I doing in here? When am I going

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<v Speaker 1>to get out? You just don't know how long this

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<v Speaker 1>nightmare is going to go on for.

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<v Speaker 2>That's true.

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<v Speaker 1>And now in jail you you had the fight, Yeah, plenty.

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<v Speaker 1>How many fights would you estimate your head?

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<v Speaker 2>Ten?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 2>Maybe?

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<v Speaker 1>Maybe? Yeah?

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<v Speaker 2>Maybe? Well it was a few kind of scuffles, but

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<v Speaker 2>probably ten, probably good ones.

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<v Speaker 1>Were you a physical bloke before you went went there?

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<v Speaker 1>Were you?

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<v Speaker 2>Oh? I mean I was waying what seventy eight kilos?

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<v Speaker 2>I'd done a little bit of boxing through my childhood

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<v Speaker 2>with a few fellas from the beaches and stuff. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I wouldn't as a professional boxer though, Yeah, I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, I can handle myself to a degree.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, So you could invoke some aggression where you needed

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<v Speaker 1>to stand up for yourself.

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<v Speaker 2>And I had, you know, I had a fair bit

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<v Speaker 2>of aggression because of my situation. You know, I could

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<v Speaker 2>draw on that.

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<v Speaker 1>Why are you so angry? Why are you so angry?

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<v Speaker 1>Just let it go. I honestly, mate, I don't know

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<v Speaker 1>how you survived. I'm sitting here and I'm looking at you.

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<v Speaker 2>Know.

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<v Speaker 1>We've had people on that have committed crimes that they

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<v Speaker 1>know they're going to get if they get caught, they're

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<v Speaker 1>going to get lengthy sentences in foreign prisons and different things.

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<v Speaker 1>But we're talking at the worst. It's damaged to an

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<v Speaker 1>ATM machine. And I can tell you after me meeting you,

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<v Speaker 1>if I go across it whenever I'm overseas, be very

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<v Speaker 1>kind to ATM machines.

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<v Speaker 2>I wouldn't be going to camba to you.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, Well, look, we make light of a situation so

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<v Speaker 1>far from light, but I think sometimes you've got to

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<v Speaker 1>find that the brightness in the darkness or you can't survive.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Well I've had that from good advice for people,

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<v Speaker 2>that you've just got to move forward. And yeah, and

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<v Speaker 2>look again I said earlier, you either laugh or you cry,

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<v Speaker 2>and I've done me crying, and I'm in Sydney laughing,

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<v Speaker 2>but I'm not on the inside. It's just it's one

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<v Speaker 2>of those responses, isn't it like a nervous laugh or

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<v Speaker 2>you know.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a way of dealing dealing with it. I want

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<v Speaker 1>you talked. You said to me that you mentioned in

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<v Speaker 1>part one that you saw eleven people die in the prison,

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<v Speaker 1>and there's one that you wrote about in detail, and

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<v Speaker 1>I just want to read that out and then ask

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<v Speaker 1>you some questions, questions about that, and you're describing this

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<v Speaker 1>particular death of an inmate. They handcuffed this tie guide

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<v Speaker 1>to the bars at the back of the cell or

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<v Speaker 1>because he was sick and needed to keep using the bathroom.

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<v Speaker 1>They then took it in turns, kicking the absolute shit

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<v Speaker 1>out of him. This must have lasted at least an

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<v Speaker 1>hour when they finally stopped and removed the handcuffs. This

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<v Speaker 1>guy was so scared to move, the just pissed and

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<v Speaker 1>shit himself in the back corner. The next morning he

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<v Speaker 1>had died. So we're talking here about witnessing someone being.

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<v Speaker 2>Beaten to death.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, do you know why he was being beaten.

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<v Speaker 2>Because he was using the bathroom too much, because he

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<v Speaker 2>had gastro right and couldn't get any help. And that's

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<v Speaker 2>why I was in the hospital. So that that's in

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<v Speaker 2>the hospital now.

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<v Speaker 1>And that was a good part. That's where you paid

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<v Speaker 1>extra together.

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<v Speaker 2>I paid one thousand US to get into the hospital.

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<v Speaker 2>So the room would only be full of thirty people. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>like there was only six people in the room all

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<v Speaker 2>the time, But then patients would come in and out right,

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<v Speaker 2>and so he'd come in because he'd had bad gastro

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<v Speaker 2>and just kept having to keep using the toilet. But

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<v Speaker 2>two of the guys worked at the hospital, so they

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<v Speaker 2>had our pair of handcuffs in the cell for that purpose.

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<v Speaker 1>What was going through your mind watching this?

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<v Speaker 2>Want? I wanted again, I wanted to stop it. I

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<v Speaker 2>couldn't believe what I was watching. It's very again, very confronting,

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<v Speaker 2>and you just you feel bad because the way that

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<v Speaker 2>someone would treat another human being, it's just it's beyond me,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, like I can't, I can't. I just I

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<v Speaker 2>just remember that him screaming as well, stop, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>and and they just taking turns and laughing like it

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<v Speaker 2>was some kind of evil game. You know. The more

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<v Speaker 2>he pleted, the more they builded him and kicked him.

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<v Speaker 2>I think it lasted longer than an hour, to be honest,

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<v Speaker 2>you know. And then they'd look at one another and go, oh,

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<v Speaker 2>look what I can do next, and kick him in

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<v Speaker 2>the ribs, and you know, another guy just slap him

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<v Speaker 2>across the face at one and like to make him flinch,

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<v Speaker 2>and you know they had Yeah, it was it was

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<v Speaker 2>pretty full on. And you know the next day the

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<v Speaker 2>guy's dead in the morning.

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<v Speaker 1>And just laughing at while they're doing it.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's it's a crazy, crazy place to be.

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<v Speaker 2>I just so many things, so many things I saw

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<v Speaker 2>that people should never see. Really, I could go on

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<v Speaker 2>and on. I mean, seriously, I know, and I've just did.

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<v Speaker 1>There's so many things you can pull out, pull out

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<v Speaker 1>of what happened to you in prison. When you reach

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<v Speaker 1>it reached out to me. You wanted to tell the story.

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<v Speaker 1>You want people to understand the dangers and all that,

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<v Speaker 1>and yeah, let's not be naive when we think there's

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<v Speaker 1>there's justice and humanity in the world. Some places you

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<v Speaker 1>find yourself that's so far from it, are you? And

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<v Speaker 1>I checked with you before I raised this, but you

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<v Speaker 1>also detailed the account when you were gang raped one

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<v Speaker 1>of the times in the prison. I just get if

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<v Speaker 1>it's okay with you, and I'm going to read out

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<v Speaker 1>what you said there and then I'll let you comment

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<v Speaker 1>if you need to comment or feel feel to comment.

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<v Speaker 1>But I'm also mindful that since been released from prison

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<v Speaker 1>and coming back to Australia, that you're getting treatment for

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<v Speaker 1>the traumas and the things that you happen. So if

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<v Speaker 1>any point in time you want me to stop or

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<v Speaker 1>we change the subject, feel free. I was tipping some

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<v Speaker 1>water from the bucket over my head when five guys

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<v Speaker 1>stormed in. I tried my best fighting them off, hitting

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<v Speaker 1>one Cambodian in the throat and smashing another one's head

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<v Speaker 1>against the concrete wall, but there was too many of them.

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<v Speaker 1>Eventually they pinned me down to the filthy, wet floor,

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<v Speaker 1>two guys holding my hands and two guys holding my

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<v Speaker 1>feet while the fifth Cambadium raped me. My face was

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<v Speaker 1>pushed into the concrete. I was helpless to do anything.

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<v Speaker 1>Words can't describe what I was thinking. In the end,

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<v Speaker 1>I just tried to block everything out of my mind.

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<v Speaker 1>Nobody came to help me. I'll never forget how it

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<v Speaker 1>made me feel, and just one other aspect. And that

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<v Speaker 1>was the first of four times I was raped in prison.

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<v Speaker 1>Sitting here now writing this, I feel a sense of numbness.

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<v Speaker 1>Those men have taken something from me that can never

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<v Speaker 1>be returned. I just remember leaving the shower with my

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<v Speaker 1>backside bleeding, putting on my pants, and sitting on the

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<v Speaker 1>cell of the floor staring at the ground in shame.

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<v Speaker 1>Mm hm, I yeah, I don't know what to say

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<v Speaker 1>that what? What's how?

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<v Speaker 2>How? Literally? How I wrote that down is how pretty

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<v Speaker 2>much happened. Now I felt, you know, you feel guilty.

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<v Speaker 2>I never asked for that, and the shame and that

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<v Speaker 2>just that I could still feel the wetness on my

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<v Speaker 2>face the bathroom floor, and still smell the smells of

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<v Speaker 2>the sewerage, and just having to pick myself up like

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<v Speaker 2>some used up piece of meat, put my pants on

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<v Speaker 2>and sit back in a corner, and life goes on.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, they just keep doing what they're doing. Nothing

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<v Speaker 2>gets said, nothing gets you get the occasional look, but

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<v Speaker 2>there's no there's no I.

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<v Speaker 1>U okay, mate, there's there's.

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<v Speaker 2>Well it's almost like they look at you just like

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<v Speaker 2>I'm glad it wasn't me this time.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, that's what they've created in the environment like that.

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<v Speaker 1>It's well, when I say interesting, maybe not the right word,

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<v Speaker 1>but look at what humans can do to other other humans,

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<v Speaker 1>No wonder the world can be a fucked place at times. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>when you've got people that do that, and yeah, we've

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<v Speaker 1>talked about it, and you mentioned there you feel guilt

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<v Speaker 1>and shame. Mate, I say this to you. You've survived.

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<v Speaker 1>You survived, so you've got got it over them. The

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<v Speaker 1>low lives that do that to you.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and that's that's why when I wrote that down,

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<v Speaker 2>I said, I could talk about the other ones, but

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<v Speaker 2>it doesn't really help me. Yeah, you know, I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>if you wanted to seriously talk about the other ones,

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<v Speaker 2>I would, but it doesn't help me. Just to know

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<v Speaker 2>about what you've just read out. It's pretty much the

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<v Speaker 2>same feelings with the others, apart from the one with

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<v Speaker 2>the guards, because I used to come in and just

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<v Speaker 2>drag people out they get drunk, come in and drag

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<v Speaker 2>a person out, take them to their quarters. Yeah, so

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<v Speaker 2>that that you know that, and that they're pretty horrific,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, I mean, they're all horrific, but you do

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<v Speaker 2>become a bit more numb to it. I'm still pretty

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<v Speaker 2>shook up because I haven't read this transcript back since

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<v Speaker 2>I wrote it, you know, pretty much. I had a

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<v Speaker 2>glanced over it today, but that's it. And yeah, to

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<v Speaker 2>hear it again just brings back all the memories, just

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<v Speaker 2>keep flooding back, you.

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<v Speaker 1>Know, powerful words and yeah, yeah, you're getting help for it.

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<v Speaker 1>You're saying that.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it was funny. The Trump sexual trauma counselor said

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<v Speaker 2>to me, you know, when we wrote it all out

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<v Speaker 2>to send off to you and hopefully to the Human

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<v Speaker 2>Rights Commission as well, and things like that. That when

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<v Speaker 2>I was in the police station leading up to going

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<v Speaker 2>into the prison, I was talking in first person, and

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<v Speaker 2>then when I get into prison, I'm talking in third person.

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<v Speaker 2>And I didn't. I didn't. I'm not an author, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>or creative writer, you know. But she picked up on

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<v Speaker 2>that and she said, that's a sure sign of trauma.

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<v Speaker 2>Trauma and how you perceive, you know, how to deal

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<v Speaker 2>with things like you're stepping, you're removing yourself from stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>And I guess that's you know, makes sense.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know. But the thing that really makes me

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<v Speaker 2>angry is that I never asked for any of this.

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<v Speaker 2>I never once, you know, like, I did nothing wrong.

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<v Speaker 2>Even if you've done something wrong, nothing like this should

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<v Speaker 2>ever happen to you. You know. It takes your dignity away.

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<v Speaker 2>You feel if you know, you feel, you feel so

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<v Speaker 2>much shame and so much guilt. Why couldn't have just

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<v Speaker 2>fought a bit harder? You just can't. There's five guys,

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<v Speaker 2>some of them can kick box, you know. They're not

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<v Speaker 2>all just little skinny Cambodians. There's guys in there doing

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<v Speaker 2>life they're never getting out, you know that they don't

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<v Speaker 2>care if they kill someone, because what are they going

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<v Speaker 2>to do, give them another twenty years on their sentence

0:13:40.840 --> 0:13:44.240
<v Speaker 2>not getting out anyways. It's one of those situations. And

0:13:44.280 --> 0:13:47.160
<v Speaker 2>there's so many of those guys in there, that's what

0:13:47.240 --> 0:13:50.000
<v Speaker 2>makes it a scary place too. And the guards aren't

0:13:50.040 --> 0:13:52.520
<v Speaker 2>do anything about it because they could kill a guard

0:13:52.520 --> 0:13:55.240
<v Speaker 2>and what's going to happen. They'll just they'll probably end

0:13:55.320 --> 0:13:57.680
<v Speaker 2>up getting killed themselves, but it doesn't matter to them,

0:13:57.840 --> 0:14:00.120
<v Speaker 2>you know. And there's so many of them in there

0:14:00.160 --> 0:14:01.360
<v Speaker 2>that are doing life.

0:14:02.679 --> 0:14:05.319
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and you can't report it to the guards. As

0:14:05.320 --> 0:14:09.079
<v Speaker 1>you said, one of the rape situations involve the guards.

0:14:09.200 --> 0:14:13.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, I think I mentioned to you too. The

0:14:13.800 --> 0:14:17.679
<v Speaker 2>lady boys they got the worst. Yeah, you know, the

0:14:18.040 --> 0:14:21.240
<v Speaker 2>ones that were taking in well, whatever they were doing,

0:14:21.320 --> 0:14:26.080
<v Speaker 2>they're getting done for prostitution ties Cambodians all that. That

0:14:26.120 --> 0:14:30.000
<v Speaker 2>would be nightly and not just once a night, five

0:14:30.120 --> 0:14:32.840
<v Speaker 2>six seven, just depend on how many guards and how

0:14:32.880 --> 0:14:36.440
<v Speaker 2>many guards were drinking. They'd gamble, they'd drink, and then

0:14:36.440 --> 0:14:37.760
<v Speaker 2>they just go around.

0:14:37.480 --> 0:14:41.720
<v Speaker 1>And just pluck prisoners out, pluck prisoners. It's disgusting, it is,

0:14:41.800 --> 0:14:42.320
<v Speaker 1>it is.

0:14:43.960 --> 0:14:46.720
<v Speaker 2>And there's so many other things, you know, like that,

0:14:46.800 --> 0:14:49.960
<v Speaker 2>I could I want to say about different things like

0:14:51.160 --> 0:14:52.600
<v Speaker 2>if you don't bring them up, I want to, I

0:14:52.600 --> 0:14:53.640
<v Speaker 2>want to get them across.

0:14:54.080 --> 0:14:56.720
<v Speaker 1>Well, there's ten thousand prisoners in there, wasn't it.

0:14:56.800 --> 0:15:03.160
<v Speaker 2>And another great point, it's built for four thousand. Four thousand,

0:15:03.400 --> 0:15:05.000
<v Speaker 2>that's how many is meant to be in that prison.

0:15:05.000 --> 0:15:07.720
<v Speaker 2>There's over ten thousand in there. So when I'm talking

0:15:07.720 --> 0:15:12.520
<v Speaker 2>about four hundred in a cell's it's four hundred. And

0:15:12.560 --> 0:15:15.600
<v Speaker 2>it's not a big cell. You know, people are squashed

0:15:15.640 --> 0:15:19.880
<v Speaker 2>up against the bars. You knows, there's one toilet or

0:15:19.880 --> 0:15:23.200
<v Speaker 2>maybe two if you're lucky. A shower where you've got

0:15:23.200 --> 0:15:27.040
<v Speaker 2>a bucket of green water that's got mosquito larvae and

0:15:27.240 --> 0:15:30.200
<v Speaker 2>you know, dangi fever and you're using that the shower.

0:15:30.600 --> 0:15:34.520
<v Speaker 1>It's just the threat of diseases, every.

0:15:34.280 --> 0:15:42.080
<v Speaker 2>Disease, COVID, all the main in every std under the sun,

0:15:42.160 --> 0:15:43.720
<v Speaker 2>but all the main ones, some of the ones. I

0:15:43.720 --> 0:15:47.960
<v Speaker 2>don't think we've even got much in Australia anymore. You know,

0:15:49.400 --> 0:15:53.760
<v Speaker 2>guys with what's one where you cough up the blood tuberculosis,

0:15:54.080 --> 0:15:57.760
<v Speaker 2>I think that's it. Yeah, it's very it's very contagious

0:15:58.240 --> 0:16:01.240
<v Speaker 2>and then it's like, yeah, you start coughing and then

0:16:01.240 --> 0:16:03.640
<v Speaker 2>you're coughing up blood and that's you know, and that's

0:16:03.720 --> 0:16:07.400
<v Speaker 2>very contagious. And all these other things obviously scabies and

0:16:07.880 --> 0:16:12.240
<v Speaker 2>golden staff rife through everywhere. You know, I was covered

0:16:12.240 --> 0:16:17.840
<v Speaker 2>in it, Yeah, absolutely covered everywhere everywhere, and bedsaws from

0:16:17.920 --> 0:16:19.960
<v Speaker 2>laying on the ground on the concrete for too long,

0:16:20.320 --> 0:16:22.840
<v Speaker 2>like your hips, they start getting lumps in your hips

0:16:23.720 --> 0:16:25.360
<v Speaker 2>and either side.

0:16:25.640 --> 0:16:30.520
<v Speaker 1>You know, you wrote in wrote in your transcript there

0:16:30.640 --> 0:16:34.800
<v Speaker 1>about the mattress that was up with all just the

0:16:35.520 --> 0:16:41.920
<v Speaker 1>wire and torture as in putting people electric uity people describe,

0:16:42.240 --> 0:16:46.120
<v Speaker 1>describe that what you saw there, Just to put.

0:16:45.960 --> 0:16:51.160
<v Speaker 2>It briefly, there's six or eight cells. That's the hospital basically,

0:16:51.240 --> 0:16:53.280
<v Speaker 2>and then where they do the surgeries over here and

0:16:53.320 --> 0:16:58.560
<v Speaker 2>they administer their medications, their medications down the other end

0:16:58.640 --> 0:17:02.760
<v Speaker 2>was this room and it had a small room, smaller

0:17:02.760 --> 0:17:05.000
<v Speaker 2>than this and it just had a bed. But the

0:17:05.560 --> 0:17:08.399
<v Speaker 2>springs of the mattress in it, all the material and

0:17:08.440 --> 0:17:12.040
<v Speaker 2>that all gone all gone, yeah yeah, and you know,

0:17:12.080 --> 0:17:15.960
<v Speaker 2>and there's a few bars on it. Yeah, one can't

0:17:16.000 --> 0:17:17.960
<v Speaker 2>only think you know what was going on there?

0:17:18.160 --> 0:17:19.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you know.

0:17:19.760 --> 0:17:22.919
<v Speaker 2>And the way, and in the hospital too, you're dealing

0:17:22.960 --> 0:17:29.080
<v Speaker 2>with people that are clearly have got severe mental health

0:17:29.119 --> 0:17:34.800
<v Speaker 2>issues that should be in care, real care, that are

0:17:35.040 --> 0:17:39.200
<v Speaker 2>going around and you know, bashing people, but then ten

0:17:39.280 --> 0:17:41.399
<v Speaker 2>seconds later wouldn't even know they've done it, you know.

0:17:41.680 --> 0:17:42.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so.

0:17:44.040 --> 0:17:47.160
<v Speaker 2>You know it's crazy.

0:17:48.840 --> 0:17:52.160
<v Speaker 1>You got stabbed? Yeah, yeah, tell us about that incident

0:17:52.160 --> 0:17:53.119
<v Speaker 1>and what happened.

0:17:53.359 --> 0:17:56.200
<v Speaker 2>Well, I had an altercation because, like I said, there's

0:17:56.200 --> 0:17:59.120
<v Speaker 2>all these lane ways and nooks and cranny so there's

0:17:59.119 --> 0:18:03.480
<v Speaker 2>not a lot of cameras. It's not like no, no,

0:18:03.800 --> 0:18:06.520
<v Speaker 2>of course not. They only put him in the areas

0:18:06.520 --> 0:18:10.439
<v Speaker 2>where the people come in and see who fund. So

0:18:10.520 --> 0:18:13.320
<v Speaker 2>I had an alccasion with one guy and he's as

0:18:13.359 --> 0:18:16.879
<v Speaker 2>he's come up and ran or not ran, as just

0:18:17.320 --> 0:18:21.080
<v Speaker 2>kicked me in the arm like this nearly busted my

0:18:21.240 --> 0:18:22.679
<v Speaker 2>arm his mate.

0:18:23.080 --> 0:18:26.399
<v Speaker 1>Do you mind for show you this is a so

0:18:26.600 --> 0:18:30.000
<v Speaker 1>that for those listening to this podcasting, and just showed

0:18:30.040 --> 0:18:32.919
<v Speaker 1>me the stab wound where he was stabbed in the

0:18:33.000 --> 0:18:35.760
<v Speaker 1>chest and it hit his ribs. You can't see it

0:18:35.800 --> 0:18:38.160
<v Speaker 1>obviously if you're listening to this, but if you want

0:18:38.200 --> 0:18:40.720
<v Speaker 1>to see what we're talking about, you can view it

0:18:40.760 --> 0:18:41.720
<v Speaker 1>on YouTube.

0:18:42.400 --> 0:18:46.800
<v Speaker 2>No that's what sharpened up a piece of perspects pipe.

0:18:47.359 --> 0:18:50.760
<v Speaker 2>And just as so, the other guy's kicked me. He's

0:18:50.760 --> 0:18:52.440
<v Speaker 2>come up from underneath and got me. So there's two

0:18:52.440 --> 0:18:55.439
<v Speaker 2>on me. And then I didn't really because it got

0:18:55.520 --> 0:18:56.919
<v Speaker 2>jammed in between my ribs.

0:18:57.520 --> 0:18:57.760
<v Speaker 1>Yep.

0:18:57.880 --> 0:19:01.600
<v Speaker 2>So I'm quite fortunate that he well, you know what.

0:19:01.560 --> 0:19:03.120
<v Speaker 1>I didn't get a vital organ.

0:19:03.240 --> 0:19:05.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it got stuck in there and then I and

0:19:05.320 --> 0:19:07.040
<v Speaker 2>then I just kept going and then it kind of

0:19:07.200 --> 0:19:10.960
<v Speaker 2>dissipated and then I pulled it out. And there's no

0:19:11.000 --> 0:19:15.840
<v Speaker 2>way I was going to the hospital. No way it was.

0:19:17.000 --> 0:19:20.760
<v Speaker 2>It was. There was no doctors at the hospital, not one.

0:19:21.320 --> 0:19:23.200
<v Speaker 2>It was all prisoners doing procedures.

0:19:23.240 --> 0:19:26.960
<v Speaker 1>So how did you treat yourself? Because that feeling, that womb? Yeah, significant,

0:19:27.400 --> 0:19:28.240
<v Speaker 1>significant word.

0:19:28.320 --> 0:19:31.879
<v Speaker 2>I just I got, you know, some some guys. You know,

0:19:32.080 --> 0:19:34.400
<v Speaker 2>there was a Belgian guys, a Filipino guy. They was saying,

0:19:34.440 --> 0:19:36.919
<v Speaker 2>put this stuff on it, and they had some stuff. So,

0:19:37.040 --> 0:19:38.800
<v Speaker 2>you know, the foreigners all kind of stuck together.

0:19:38.840 --> 0:19:41.440
<v Speaker 1>So there was that smidgen of humanity in there with

0:19:41.680 --> 0:19:43.240
<v Speaker 1>the foreigner foreigners. Yeah.

0:19:43.320 --> 0:19:46.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well it's almost like us against them, you know,

0:19:46.840 --> 0:19:50.359
<v Speaker 2>And that's how it was for quite some time. You know,

0:19:50.520 --> 0:19:52.760
<v Speaker 2>and and and one of the Nigerians even said that

0:19:52.800 --> 0:19:56.119
<v Speaker 2>to me. He said, how he approached me after he

0:19:56.240 --> 0:19:59.000
<v Speaker 2>known I've been raped and he goes, how you traveling right?

0:19:59.160 --> 0:20:00.920
<v Speaker 2>And I said I'm not good and he goes, mate,

0:20:01.000 --> 0:20:02.720
<v Speaker 2>just remember this, it's us against them.

0:20:03.080 --> 0:20:03.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:20:03.480 --> 0:20:05.040
<v Speaker 2>I think that was the first time I had the

0:20:05.040 --> 0:20:05.960
<v Speaker 2>first cigarette.

0:20:06.880 --> 0:20:07.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:20:07.840 --> 0:20:11.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. And then I use them as currency because that's

0:20:11.600 --> 0:20:15.000
<v Speaker 2>what you do, you know, to get some food or something.

0:20:15.880 --> 0:20:18.240
<v Speaker 1>So what was what was your lowest point in the

0:20:19.000 --> 0:20:20.240
<v Speaker 1>time that you're in prison?

0:20:21.600 --> 0:20:25.440
<v Speaker 2>Ah? I mean, obviously the rapes, sexual assaults pretty hard

0:20:25.440 --> 0:20:28.280
<v Speaker 2>to deal with. You going to a pretty bad depression.

0:20:28.720 --> 0:20:31.159
<v Speaker 2>You don't want to talk to anyone. You get some

0:20:31.240 --> 0:20:34.199
<v Speaker 2>foreign guys, like there's a friend. I called him a

0:20:34.240 --> 0:20:37.000
<v Speaker 2>friend because a sign I could confide in. He'd come

0:20:37.080 --> 0:20:40.080
<v Speaker 2>up and go, mate, I know what's happened, and you

0:20:40.240 --> 0:20:43.440
<v Speaker 2>kind of you're trying and remove yourself from people, which

0:20:43.480 --> 0:20:44.800
<v Speaker 2>is a bad thing because then you go into a

0:20:44.840 --> 0:20:48.480
<v Speaker 2>dark place and then you start thinking, well, maybe I'll

0:20:48.520 --> 0:20:50.720
<v Speaker 2>just try and escape and they'll shoot me, you know,

0:20:51.680 --> 0:20:54.960
<v Speaker 2>or if you end up doing too if you start

0:20:55.000 --> 0:20:58.560
<v Speaker 2>doing some stuff that really puts there their naise out

0:20:58.560 --> 0:21:00.320
<v Speaker 2>of whack. They'll put you in this place. It's called

0:21:00.359 --> 0:21:03.600
<v Speaker 2>the dark Room for thirty days. It's just a dark

0:21:03.720 --> 0:21:06.480
<v Speaker 2>room with the most crazy people in there that they

0:21:06.880 --> 0:21:13.120
<v Speaker 2>you know, that aren't getting out, and they'll supply methanphetamine, whatever.

0:21:13.280 --> 0:21:16.080
<v Speaker 2>They don't care. It's like a zoo, you know, in

0:21:16.160 --> 0:21:19.520
<v Speaker 2>that room. There's no clocks, there's no nothing. Everything you

0:21:19.560 --> 0:21:21.880
<v Speaker 2>buy if you want a bottle of water, it's ten

0:21:21.960 --> 0:21:23.879
<v Speaker 2>times the price and I don't can to afford anything.

0:21:24.359 --> 0:21:27.080
<v Speaker 2>I know. If people look the Nigerian guy, Chicker, he

0:21:27.119 --> 0:21:29.320
<v Speaker 2>bought his way out of there. He was only in

0:21:29.400 --> 0:21:31.000
<v Speaker 2>there a couple of days, and he says, you're just

0:21:31.119 --> 0:21:33.359
<v Speaker 2>in a corner. You can't see anything, or you can

0:21:33.400 --> 0:21:39.359
<v Speaker 2>see people lighting lighters, smoking ice. It's completely black, you

0:21:39.400 --> 0:21:41.600
<v Speaker 2>know what I mean. And he said he was just

0:21:41.880 --> 0:21:44.920
<v Speaker 2>there's a guy jerking off next to him. He doesn't care,

0:21:45.560 --> 0:21:47.920
<v Speaker 2>you know, like he's going to get away from me.

0:21:48.960 --> 0:21:51.040
<v Speaker 2>But that's the least of his problems, you know.

0:21:52.119 --> 0:21:54.480
<v Speaker 1>And just when I didn't think you could surprise me

0:21:54.520 --> 0:21:58.840
<v Speaker 1>anymore now, like mate, the dark room, Yeah, I'm just

0:21:58.880 --> 0:22:02.480
<v Speaker 1>trying to picture it, all these crazy people or whatever

0:22:02.800 --> 0:22:05.560
<v Speaker 1>in there in a pitch black room and you just

0:22:05.960 --> 0:22:06.560
<v Speaker 1>frown in there.

0:22:07.440 --> 0:22:12.760
<v Speaker 2>No clock's known nothing, thirty days, sixty days, ninety days,

0:22:12.920 --> 0:22:15.320
<v Speaker 2>one hundred and twenty days, there's been God, there was

0:22:15.359 --> 0:22:16.679
<v Speaker 2>guys in there months and months.

0:22:16.960 --> 0:22:18.680
<v Speaker 1>Don't keep your sanity, you don't.

0:22:19.200 --> 0:22:21.200
<v Speaker 2>That's the thing, that's what they want. That's how they

0:22:21.240 --> 0:22:24.080
<v Speaker 2>break you. You want to muck around real bad. They're

0:22:24.119 --> 0:22:27.680
<v Speaker 2>just chucking in there. You know, if you get caught

0:22:27.720 --> 0:22:32.880
<v Speaker 2>with something. It's such a corrupt place that they supply

0:22:33.040 --> 0:22:38.040
<v Speaker 2>all the drugs, the phones because people buy it off them.

0:22:38.600 --> 0:22:41.479
<v Speaker 2>Then they'll get an independent organization like the police from

0:22:41.520 --> 0:22:44.439
<v Speaker 2>the outside would come just out of the blue and

0:22:44.480 --> 0:22:47.479
<v Speaker 2>start raiding sections like oh, they're going through BLOCKAH today

0:22:47.840 --> 0:22:51.119
<v Speaker 2>and just going in there, and then they find a phone.

0:22:51.480 --> 0:22:54.480
<v Speaker 2>Who's this belonged to? It's that Chinese guy, beat the

0:22:54.520 --> 0:22:57.359
<v Speaker 2>crap out of him, give him another three years on

0:22:57.400 --> 0:23:01.240
<v Speaker 2>his sentence, and then the same guy two weeks later

0:23:01.320 --> 0:23:04.679
<v Speaker 2>selling him back that same phone or drugs or whatever

0:23:04.720 --> 0:23:06.960
<v Speaker 2>else it was. You know, moonshine. There was plenty of

0:23:07.040 --> 0:23:10.080
<v Speaker 2>everything going on in there, you know everything. Guys were

0:23:10.080 --> 0:23:13.119
<v Speaker 2>walking around with monkeys, with the real rich guys. There

0:23:13.160 --> 0:23:16.359
<v Speaker 2>was a guy walking around with like a spider monkey

0:23:16.520 --> 0:23:20.000
<v Speaker 2>pet monkey, pet monkey on his on his shoulder. There

0:23:20.080 --> 0:23:23.280
<v Speaker 2>was guys who had like massive bil constrictors in tanks.

0:23:23.520 --> 0:23:27.800
<v Speaker 2>There was lots of different birds and things like that

0:23:27.800 --> 0:23:30.680
<v Speaker 2>that people were allowed to have and keep because they

0:23:30.720 --> 0:23:33.760
<v Speaker 2>paid big money. Are paying like a thousand the vip

0:23:34.400 --> 0:23:40.359
<v Speaker 2>sells are paying ony twelve hundred US a month, and

0:23:40.400 --> 0:23:43.399
<v Speaker 2>they could get any luxury they wanted, you know, and

0:23:43.440 --> 0:23:45.400
<v Speaker 2>the guards would go in there and drink with them,

0:23:45.760 --> 0:23:48.560
<v Speaker 2>even the senior guards, you know, they would go in

0:23:48.600 --> 0:23:51.879
<v Speaker 2>and drink with them. You know, they'd have girls brought in.

0:23:51.960 --> 0:23:55.720
<v Speaker 2>They could have anything they wanted, you know. And those

0:23:55.760 --> 0:23:57.960
<v Speaker 2>guys weren't getting out. They knew it. So I was like, well,

0:23:57.960 --> 0:24:00.840
<v Speaker 2>I've got millions of dollars. I'm just gonna make the

0:24:00.880 --> 0:24:01.280
<v Speaker 2>best of it.

0:24:01.400 --> 0:24:05.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, did you have concerns when you're in there that, yeah,

0:24:05.560 --> 0:24:08.640
<v Speaker 1>you've got this minor charge that you're fighting that one

0:24:08.640 --> 0:24:11.119
<v Speaker 1>would hope you're not going to get years since to

0:24:11.480 --> 0:24:14.159
<v Speaker 1>Did you have concerns that you'd be laded up with

0:24:14.200 --> 0:24:18.439
<v Speaker 1>another charge or defend yourself and injure someone, or end

0:24:18.520 --> 0:24:21.480
<v Speaker 1>up charge and yeah, yeah, definitely for the rest of

0:24:21.480 --> 0:24:21.880
<v Speaker 1>your life.

0:24:21.960 --> 0:24:25.119
<v Speaker 2>Definitely. Well, my charge at one stage was three years.

0:24:25.160 --> 0:24:27.439
<v Speaker 2>Three years. That was going to be the charge for

0:24:27.600 --> 0:24:31.399
<v Speaker 2>damaging your beast of property. Yeah, you know, and you

0:24:31.440 --> 0:24:33.679
<v Speaker 2>know I fell in to protect my head and my

0:24:33.800 --> 0:24:37.480
<v Speaker 2>hand hit the glass like that. But I was all

0:24:37.560 --> 0:24:40.240
<v Speaker 2>over the shop because I've been drugged.

0:24:40.160 --> 0:24:42.920
<v Speaker 1>And like I sit here, I wouldn't care if you

0:24:43.040 --> 0:24:46.560
<v Speaker 1>ran up and kicked the ATM or attacked it with

0:24:46.600 --> 0:24:47.480
<v Speaker 1>a baseball bat.

0:24:47.600 --> 0:24:49.800
<v Speaker 2>Funnily enough, that's what they said in court when I

0:24:49.840 --> 0:24:52.439
<v Speaker 2>went to court. The first time they said to me

0:24:52.680 --> 0:24:56.520
<v Speaker 2>was I tried to steal the ATM machine, right, pick

0:24:56.560 --> 0:24:56.840
<v Speaker 2>it up.

0:24:57.359 --> 0:24:59.520
<v Speaker 1>It weighs more than me. Well, you grew up around

0:24:59.560 --> 0:25:03.679
<v Speaker 1>the northern It was a spade of ATM robberies, maybe

0:25:03.880 --> 0:25:05.440
<v Speaker 1>maybe missing missing the point.

0:25:05.640 --> 0:25:07.040
<v Speaker 2>And then I said to them, can you show me

0:25:07.119 --> 0:25:09.439
<v Speaker 2>the footage? Then they brought up the next time. I wasn't, Oh,

0:25:09.440 --> 0:25:11.720
<v Speaker 2>you're trying to attack it with an iron bar? Bring it?

0:25:11.760 --> 0:25:14.120
<v Speaker 2>Can you just remind me? Bring up the footage? Then

0:25:14.160 --> 0:25:17.480
<v Speaker 2>you what was something else? Oh? Look, Then they brought

0:25:17.480 --> 0:25:20.439
<v Speaker 2>out the photos. These were the best, the photos of

0:25:20.560 --> 0:25:22.560
<v Speaker 2>me with my hands on the buttons and stuff. And

0:25:22.560 --> 0:25:25.119
<v Speaker 2>I was like, yeah, that's because I'm trying to withdraw money,

0:25:25.520 --> 0:25:26.120
<v Speaker 2>you know.

0:25:26.160 --> 0:25:27.840
<v Speaker 1>Like you've got to you've got to touch.

0:25:27.640 --> 0:25:30.320
<v Speaker 2>It, ye, or you got to touch the buttons as well.

0:25:30.880 --> 0:25:32.800
<v Speaker 1>Did you get a did you get a sense? It

0:25:32.880 --> 0:25:34.840
<v Speaker 1>was just what can we extore.

0:25:34.560 --> 0:25:38.280
<v Speaker 2>Out of you? They called the land of wonder? Yeah,

0:25:38.320 --> 0:25:40.720
<v Speaker 2>it should be called the land of extortion. Yeah, because

0:25:40.760 --> 0:25:44.520
<v Speaker 2>that's what they do, you know, from the top down. Now,

0:25:44.560 --> 0:25:46.120
<v Speaker 2>I'm not mucking around when I say that.

0:25:46.119 --> 0:25:51.520
<v Speaker 1>That's yeah, like the fact that they had it released

0:25:51.560 --> 0:25:55.160
<v Speaker 1>in the paper straight away as this Peneus crime, the

0:25:55.200 --> 0:25:57.560
<v Speaker 1>Peneus crime that you've committed, and you still won the

0:25:57.640 --> 0:26:00.600
<v Speaker 1>round as a tourist, and don't change fly or make

0:26:00.640 --> 0:26:01.320
<v Speaker 1>any effort to.

0:26:03.880 --> 0:26:06.440
<v Speaker 2>You know, if I'd have done something bad, the first

0:26:06.480 --> 0:26:08.119
<v Speaker 2>thing you'd be doing is getting to the border of

0:26:08.160 --> 0:26:11.560
<v Speaker 2>Thailand and getting across. Yeah, you know all that n

0:26:11.640 --> 0:26:16.120
<v Speaker 2>up all ouse. You know, you wouldn't be hanging around

0:26:16.240 --> 0:26:17.200
<v Speaker 2>checking out the sites.

0:26:18.320 --> 0:26:21.840
<v Speaker 1>It doesn't doesn't quite quite add up. Now does the

0:26:21.920 --> 0:26:26.040
<v Speaker 1>money that the money that your ex partner was sending

0:26:26.080 --> 0:26:29.800
<v Speaker 1>to you, you've credited that we've saving your life. What

0:26:29.880 --> 0:26:32.159
<v Speaker 1>sort of figures are we talking about? How much this

0:26:32.600 --> 0:26:36.360
<v Speaker 1>whole experience earns. Excellent adventure in Cambaiti it.

0:26:36.359 --> 0:26:39.560
<v Speaker 2>Costs one hundred and twenty thousand US. Yeah, as my

0:26:39.960 --> 0:26:42.720
<v Speaker 2>pretty much all my mum's inheritance that she'd left when

0:26:42.720 --> 0:26:43.760
<v Speaker 2>she passed, right.

0:26:44.080 --> 0:26:44.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:26:44.520 --> 0:26:47.000
<v Speaker 2>And there's a shame, the shame and guilt attached to

0:26:47.080 --> 0:26:52.280
<v Speaker 2>that too. Yeah, you know, but my sister told me

0:26:52.320 --> 0:26:55.400
<v Speaker 2>one thing that was important. When I was feeling really

0:26:55.400 --> 0:26:57.760
<v Speaker 2>low about that, she said, look, if mum was still alive,

0:26:57.800 --> 0:27:00.360
<v Speaker 2>she would have paid that to get you out, you know.

0:27:01.040 --> 0:27:05.640
<v Speaker 2>But it was and the way they did it as well,

0:27:07.920 --> 0:27:12.479
<v Speaker 2>you know, the you're bribing everybody, you know, it's not

0:27:12.560 --> 0:27:13.400
<v Speaker 2>just one person.

0:27:13.560 --> 0:27:16.320
<v Speaker 1>Did I read it right? At one point in time,

0:27:16.359 --> 0:27:19.960
<v Speaker 1>when you could pay this much money and you'll be released,

0:27:19.960 --> 0:27:22.840
<v Speaker 1>This as the advice you're getting. But if you can't

0:27:22.880 --> 0:27:25.120
<v Speaker 1>pay that much money, you'll get charge with bribing a.

0:27:25.840 --> 0:27:29.480
<v Speaker 2>No, No, it was. What it was was that they

0:27:29.520 --> 0:27:34.400
<v Speaker 2>sent a figure, their lawyers send a figure, save eight thousand.

0:27:34.560 --> 0:27:36.560
<v Speaker 2>I think it was the first time to fix a

0:27:36.560 --> 0:27:38.919
<v Speaker 2>piece of glass that might cost one hundred dollars to

0:27:38.960 --> 0:27:43.040
<v Speaker 2>fix eight thousand. So if we send eight thousand straight away,

0:27:43.040 --> 0:27:46.600
<v Speaker 2>they'd send it back when we want fifteen, send fifteen,

0:27:46.840 --> 0:27:49.439
<v Speaker 2>we want twenty five, and so on just kept on

0:27:49.520 --> 0:27:52.800
<v Speaker 2>going up. Yeah, So my initial charge would have I

0:27:52.800 --> 0:27:55.399
<v Speaker 2>would have been in there for three years. And then

0:27:55.600 --> 0:27:57.960
<v Speaker 2>I said to my lawyer, I said, we're not a

0:27:57.960 --> 0:28:00.959
<v Speaker 2>wealthy family. We kind of just keep for chucking money,

0:28:01.400 --> 0:28:05.320
<v Speaker 2>thrying money around. We're not rich. You know, we did

0:28:05.359 --> 0:28:07.440
<v Speaker 2>have extra money, but we weren't trying to tell her

0:28:07.440 --> 0:28:12.080
<v Speaker 2>that at this stage. And that that's another thing where

0:28:12.119 --> 0:28:15.960
<v Speaker 2>you you just you feel all your you just get

0:28:15.960 --> 0:28:19.760
<v Speaker 2>depleted again. It's you know, like it's like you're just

0:28:19.840 --> 0:28:22.080
<v Speaker 2>trying to you think you make an inroads and they

0:28:22.119 --> 0:28:25.520
<v Speaker 2>knock your back down. Lots of prisoners inside there said

0:28:25.560 --> 0:28:29.879
<v Speaker 2>you never leave Cambodia. You never ever leave Cambodia. And

0:28:29.920 --> 0:28:32.760
<v Speaker 2>that's so true. I didn't believe it until I actually

0:28:32.760 --> 0:28:35.440
<v Speaker 2>got out. How much harder it was just to get

0:28:35.440 --> 0:28:36.119
<v Speaker 2>out of the country.

0:28:36.200 --> 0:28:38.360
<v Speaker 1>Once I got there, they keep you.

0:28:39.240 --> 0:28:43.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Yeah, and then you know you're not just bribing judges,

0:28:43.720 --> 0:28:46.640
<v Speaker 2>your bribe and guards, you drive bribe and everyone, you know,

0:28:46.840 --> 0:28:51.520
<v Speaker 2>just to you know, my lawyer was ringing my ex

0:28:51.600 --> 0:28:53.960
<v Speaker 2>partner saying we're going to need extra money for this,

0:28:54.400 --> 0:28:56.320
<v Speaker 2>and she was handing it over thinking that I was

0:28:56.880 --> 0:29:02.120
<v Speaker 2>verifying it because we couldn't always communicate. Yeah, and then

0:29:02.920 --> 0:29:05.080
<v Speaker 2>you know, the embassy would charge me money when they

0:29:05.240 --> 0:29:08.360
<v Speaker 2>brought money in for me. But the thing is, you say,

0:29:08.400 --> 0:29:11.240
<v Speaker 2>if you've got two hundred dollars US, the first couple

0:29:11.240 --> 0:29:13.400
<v Speaker 2>of times you come in that gate, they'd patch you

0:29:13.440 --> 0:29:14.320
<v Speaker 2>down and just take it.

0:29:14.920 --> 0:29:17.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you know, I wondered that when you get money,

0:29:18.400 --> 0:29:21.360
<v Speaker 1>how you hang on to it? Where is it? Where's

0:29:21.120 --> 0:29:24.800
<v Speaker 1>the captain? You had said that when you got food

0:29:25.360 --> 0:29:27.720
<v Speaker 1>or water or that quite often you just drink it

0:29:27.760 --> 0:29:30.640
<v Speaker 1>all either all because it was going to get taken

0:29:30.680 --> 0:29:31.320
<v Speaker 1>off you anyway.

0:29:31.400 --> 0:29:33.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Well, if you went back to the captain and

0:29:33.040 --> 0:29:34.760
<v Speaker 2>the captain goes, why and you buy the water off

0:29:34.800 --> 0:29:38.080
<v Speaker 2>me or cigarettes or food food here was a bit

0:29:38.640 --> 0:29:43.480
<v Speaker 2>easy going on with because they would kind of understand

0:29:43.560 --> 0:29:44.680
<v Speaker 2>that we couldn't eat their food.

0:29:45.000 --> 0:29:47.240
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, kinder mind.

0:29:47.000 --> 0:29:49.000
<v Speaker 2>You they're farm and catfish and give them your maggot

0:29:49.080 --> 0:29:53.120
<v Speaker 2>ridden rice, you know, and grown a few vegetables that

0:29:53.160 --> 0:29:57.400
<v Speaker 2>were sprayed with toxins, you know, and it was growing

0:29:58.080 --> 0:30:01.360
<v Speaker 2>on top of the sewer. Yeah. And that's another thing

0:30:01.400 --> 0:30:03.600
<v Speaker 2>that the smell of the sewer was there the whole time.

0:30:03.760 --> 0:30:07.080
<v Speaker 2>Like it's the rainy season for example, that the place

0:30:07.200 --> 0:30:13.840
<v Speaker 2>just floods, you know, snakes everywhere place, floods, generators go out,

0:30:14.120 --> 0:30:17.400
<v Speaker 2>the fans stopped working, there's no light, don't you think

0:30:17.440 --> 0:30:20.480
<v Speaker 2>it starts kicking off? Then prisoners just fighting each other

0:30:20.800 --> 0:30:25.560
<v Speaker 2>in the dark. No one's going to know what's going on. Yeah,

0:30:25.760 --> 0:30:30.680
<v Speaker 2>it's crazy. Yeah, yeah, like the king Cobras women in.

0:30:33.000 --> 0:30:35.960
<v Speaker 1>Someone called it killed it like.

0:30:35.920 --> 0:30:39.800
<v Speaker 2>A whip, like picked it like as a farmer, and

0:30:39.840 --> 0:30:42.000
<v Speaker 2>then they led the Cambodian go yeah, just picked up

0:30:42.040 --> 0:30:44.240
<v Speaker 2>on the towel and crack and then it was eating

0:30:44.280 --> 0:30:47.280
<v Speaker 2>that the next day. But they ate anything anything, they

0:30:47.360 --> 0:30:49.600
<v Speaker 2>get their hands on, dogs, everything.

0:30:49.640 --> 0:30:53.360
<v Speaker 1>Even when the negotiations got to the point like I'm

0:30:53.360 --> 0:30:55.960
<v Speaker 1>not even going to break down the court matter, like

0:30:56.320 --> 0:30:59.120
<v Speaker 1>and I've got all these emails here and I bore

0:30:59.200 --> 0:31:01.280
<v Speaker 1>them in. I was going to dissect some of them.

0:31:01.280 --> 0:31:04.760
<v Speaker 1>But their emails, communications and text messages and different things

0:31:04.800 --> 0:31:11.480
<v Speaker 1>between yourself, your partner, and the consular admin and the embassy.

0:31:12.800 --> 0:31:16.160
<v Speaker 1>What comes across in all of these is how desperate

0:31:16.680 --> 0:31:20.040
<v Speaker 1>the situation was. It was just frustration, and frustration is

0:31:20.080 --> 0:31:22.800
<v Speaker 1>felt in every page. And then yeah, it's all tied

0:31:22.840 --> 0:31:26.320
<v Speaker 1>it up. Ian's doing fine. We're working to get him out.

0:31:26.360 --> 0:31:28.800
<v Speaker 1>But it didn't seem to be any progress whatsoever, And

0:31:28.840 --> 0:31:31.840
<v Speaker 1>there was nothing that was Okay, you've got to get

0:31:31.840 --> 0:31:34.520
<v Speaker 1>to this if you plead guilty, or this is going

0:31:34.600 --> 0:31:37.200
<v Speaker 1>to happen. It was always ambiguous what was going to happen,

0:31:37.280 --> 0:31:38.200
<v Speaker 1>what the next thing was.

0:31:38.280 --> 0:31:39.880
<v Speaker 2>We're bound by Cambodian law.

0:31:40.280 --> 0:31:44.120
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and you made the point too that when embassy

0:31:44.520 --> 0:31:48.200
<v Speaker 1>officials or a consular officer came out, there was always

0:31:48.320 --> 0:31:52.560
<v Speaker 1>a Cambodian with them the whole time, just making sure

0:31:52.600 --> 0:31:55.920
<v Speaker 1>that you're You never felt safe that you could tell

0:31:56.360 --> 0:31:59.480
<v Speaker 1>someone from the Australian console, this is what the ship

0:31:59.520 --> 0:32:02.280
<v Speaker 1>that's going down, because you've got someone there listening that.

0:32:02.520 --> 0:32:07.800
<v Speaker 2>And also that she was watching her too, because then

0:32:07.880 --> 0:32:11.120
<v Speaker 2>she would because they go away and have conversations because

0:32:11.160 --> 0:32:14.120
<v Speaker 2>they don't want the prison to look bad, so they

0:32:14.240 --> 0:32:18.200
<v Speaker 2>lose funding. That funding goes to the trickles down from

0:32:18.560 --> 0:32:20.840
<v Speaker 2>the top CEO of the you know, the prison all

0:32:20.840 --> 0:32:22.680
<v Speaker 2>the way down or the general or what you want

0:32:22.680 --> 0:32:24.640
<v Speaker 2>call him, because that's how they run it like a

0:32:26.000 --> 0:32:26.640
<v Speaker 2>like an army.

0:32:28.120 --> 0:32:32.040
<v Speaker 1>When no, I I think I'm not if. I often

0:32:32.080 --> 0:32:37.040
<v Speaker 1>wondered what cloud in Australian citizen has been arrested abroad,

0:32:37.080 --> 0:32:39.720
<v Speaker 1>But it just shows how limited it is depending on

0:32:39.760 --> 0:32:41.600
<v Speaker 1>where you've you've been apprehended.

0:32:42.720 --> 0:32:50.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's you know, getting out the worst. One of

0:32:49.760 --> 0:32:54.240
<v Speaker 2>the worst parts was when you when you get to

0:32:54.280 --> 0:32:57.600
<v Speaker 2>your last month, you have to go and take your

0:32:57.600 --> 0:33:01.680
<v Speaker 2>photos for inter pola. So they take photos of your tattoos,

0:33:01.680 --> 0:33:03.880
<v Speaker 2>they take your face obviously, and what you look like.

0:33:04.320 --> 0:33:07.239
<v Speaker 2>You got your name, you got your board up. But

0:33:07.280 --> 0:33:10.640
<v Speaker 2>that sends a signal to every other prisoner that you're

0:33:10.720 --> 0:33:15.400
<v Speaker 2>getting out, yeah, within a month. And if someone's in

0:33:15.440 --> 0:33:17.560
<v Speaker 2>there for twenty five years to life, they just want

0:33:17.600 --> 0:33:20.120
<v Speaker 2>to cause trouble for you because they want, you know,

0:33:21.960 --> 0:33:24.400
<v Speaker 2>to see you get more time. It's almost like a

0:33:24.480 --> 0:33:27.200
<v Speaker 2>jealousy thing too. If I can't get out, he.

0:33:27.120 --> 0:33:29.320
<v Speaker 1>Should should he's better than us.

0:33:29.440 --> 0:33:31.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So I do avoid people like the plague for

0:33:31.920 --> 0:33:33.800
<v Speaker 2>that last month, which I managed to do. But I

0:33:33.840 --> 0:33:37.280
<v Speaker 2>think it was Chicker, the big Nigerian guy helping me there.

0:33:37.760 --> 0:33:40.040
<v Speaker 1>He was putting the word or keeping an eye out.

0:33:40.200 --> 0:33:42.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Yeah, he was really a good, good fella.

0:33:43.160 --> 0:33:47.680
<v Speaker 1>But that must be so hard. Like here it is freedom,

0:33:48.000 --> 0:33:50.560
<v Speaker 1>it's dangled in front of you, but knowing that you're

0:33:50.600 --> 0:33:52.320
<v Speaker 1>at the higher risk at that point in time.

0:33:52.640 --> 0:33:57.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, it was tough, very tough. After everything that

0:33:57.760 --> 0:34:00.560
<v Speaker 2>was going on, guy's still tried to fight and stuff.

0:34:00.600 --> 0:34:04.640
<v Speaker 2>I just I don't know, we got difused pretty quickly.

0:34:06.160 --> 0:34:07.440
<v Speaker 1>You tried to step away from it.

0:34:07.680 --> 0:34:11.439
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Well there's occasions where you had to just kind

0:34:11.440 --> 0:34:14.960
<v Speaker 2>of hurt something pretty quickly. Doo. Yeah, you know, honestly

0:34:16.160 --> 0:34:19.160
<v Speaker 2>make it so that no one's you know, he just

0:34:19.200 --> 0:34:20.879
<v Speaker 2>fell over, yeah, or something like that.

0:34:22.600 --> 0:34:26.279
<v Speaker 1>Unbelievable. When did you actually find out that you got

0:34:26.280 --> 0:34:28.480
<v Speaker 1>a date and that you were being released from prison?

0:34:29.719 --> 0:34:33.080
<v Speaker 2>Well, that's an interesting story in itself. They used to

0:34:33.200 --> 0:34:35.759
<v Speaker 2>the guards used to tell me I was getting out tomorrow,

0:34:36.239 --> 0:34:39.040
<v Speaker 2>paperwork's coming tomorrow, just to play with it, play with

0:34:39.080 --> 0:34:41.440
<v Speaker 2>my emotions. And that went on for a few weeks,

0:34:42.320 --> 0:34:45.040
<v Speaker 2>and then it finally came. I can't remember what time was,

0:34:45.640 --> 0:34:50.360
<v Speaker 2>early afternoon. And then they all, as I wrote in

0:34:50.360 --> 0:34:53.520
<v Speaker 2>the transcripts, they all stood there with their hands out

0:34:54.080 --> 0:34:57.839
<v Speaker 2>like as if I wanted money, as if that they'd

0:34:57.840 --> 0:34:59.920
<v Speaker 2>done me a favor, thanks.

0:34:59.640 --> 0:35:03.279
<v Speaker 1>For thanks for looking after you that.

0:35:03.560 --> 0:35:03.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:35:04.000 --> 0:35:04.719
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:35:04.760 --> 0:35:07.360
<v Speaker 2>And then on the way out, every guard on the

0:35:07.400 --> 0:35:14.600
<v Speaker 2>way out as well. So yeah, and then and then

0:35:14.640 --> 0:35:17.919
<v Speaker 2>I find out, you know, I was told told time

0:35:17.960 --> 0:35:20.759
<v Speaker 2>and time again. Once you get out of prison, you're

0:35:20.800 --> 0:35:26.600
<v Speaker 2>going home. Yeah, and then I find out that I've

0:35:26.600 --> 0:35:31.480
<v Speaker 2>got to spend another three months there. Explain that, well,

0:35:31.560 --> 0:35:34.279
<v Speaker 2>I was told by the Australian embassy over in Cambodia.

0:35:34.400 --> 0:35:38.160
<v Speaker 2>But once I got out, i'd be released. I received

0:35:38.200 --> 0:35:41.719
<v Speaker 2>my passport back and my luggage back to the point

0:35:41.760 --> 0:35:43.680
<v Speaker 2>where I actually went to the courthouse and paid two

0:35:43.760 --> 0:35:49.279
<v Speaker 2>hundred dollars US to get that in process. And then

0:35:50.960 --> 0:35:53.440
<v Speaker 2>my lawyer was even too worried to come and see me.

0:35:53.560 --> 0:35:58.080
<v Speaker 2>She rang me and said, oh, you know, I said, well,

0:35:58.200 --> 0:35:59.719
<v Speaker 2>what's happening with the courts? When do we get my

0:35:59.719 --> 0:36:01.880
<v Speaker 2>past back? I want to go. I've got my family

0:36:01.920 --> 0:36:04.120
<v Speaker 2>to go and see. I've got my boy to go

0:36:04.200 --> 0:36:08.080
<v Speaker 2>and see. You know, when I'm going home. You know,

0:36:08.160 --> 0:36:10.799
<v Speaker 2>there's a couple of days, a couple of days, and

0:36:10.840 --> 0:36:12.640
<v Speaker 2>just kept on going like that. So what's going on?

0:36:13.520 --> 0:36:17.160
<v Speaker 2>And she goes buy law Cambodian law. They've got three

0:36:17.160 --> 0:36:19.640
<v Speaker 2>months to the right of the right of an appeal.

0:36:20.480 --> 0:36:24.040
<v Speaker 2>So I roped all these people work. How can you

0:36:24.040 --> 0:36:25.880
<v Speaker 2>appeal that? You know?

0:36:26.000 --> 0:36:30.080
<v Speaker 1>And then because so you had the remaining Cambadia for

0:36:30.160 --> 0:36:34.200
<v Speaker 1>three months after being released from prison because they might

0:36:34.320 --> 0:36:36.600
<v Speaker 1>or might not appeal lodging the pill.

0:36:37.520 --> 0:36:40.120
<v Speaker 2>And they still have my passport and my all my

0:36:40.200 --> 0:36:42.759
<v Speaker 2>luggage at court, so I'm still walking around and then

0:36:43.000 --> 0:36:44.719
<v Speaker 2>pretty much the same clause as I had on when

0:36:44.760 --> 0:36:46.799
<v Speaker 2>I left prison, which is filthy.

0:36:46.520 --> 0:36:49.120
<v Speaker 1>And I would imagine if you, if you did anything wrong,

0:36:49.200 --> 0:36:50.400
<v Speaker 1>you would have been straight.

0:36:50.120 --> 0:36:53.200
<v Speaker 2>Straight in prison. That was the scary thing. But I

0:36:54.239 --> 0:36:56.040
<v Speaker 2>went straight out of it because I was still at

0:36:56.040 --> 0:37:01.319
<v Speaker 2>that stage well at that STAF. I just moved into

0:37:01.360 --> 0:37:06.520
<v Speaker 2>the apartment straight across the road from the Strain Embassy.

0:37:06.920 --> 0:37:09.680
<v Speaker 2>So I've run down there and gone knocked in there

0:37:09.880 --> 0:37:13.560
<v Speaker 2>and said, what's this about? You told me I was

0:37:13.600 --> 0:37:17.560
<v Speaker 2>going home. They knew the law, they knew that there

0:37:17.640 --> 0:37:19.440
<v Speaker 2>was three months I had to stay longer, but they

0:37:19.440 --> 0:37:22.759
<v Speaker 2>told me differently. Otherwise why would they do that? I

0:37:22.760 --> 0:37:25.960
<v Speaker 2>don't know, but you know, that's something that I'd like

0:37:26.040 --> 0:37:30.840
<v Speaker 2>to discuss further with the right people, because them saying

0:37:30.880 --> 0:37:33.640
<v Speaker 2>that to me, you know, and then saying again I

0:37:33.719 --> 0:37:36.600
<v Speaker 2>were bound by Cambodian law. The only thing they ever

0:37:36.640 --> 0:37:39.120
<v Speaker 2>did for me was mere stat deck, which they are

0:37:39.239 --> 0:37:42.040
<v Speaker 2>very they weren't very keen on doing that. I asked

0:37:42.080 --> 0:37:44.319
<v Speaker 2>them for other things to say, No, we can't do that,

0:37:44.920 --> 0:37:48.080
<v Speaker 2>you know, ask them to write a letter to the

0:37:48.120 --> 0:37:49.959
<v Speaker 2>courts to get more stuff ret leased. Oh, we can't

0:37:50.000 --> 0:37:55.480
<v Speaker 2>do that. It's the courts, it's Cambodian law, you know.

0:37:55.719 --> 0:38:00.120
<v Speaker 2>And I was so paranoid at that stage that just

0:38:00.120 --> 0:38:01.759
<v Speaker 2>going to get a knock any time, you know, I

0:38:01.760 --> 0:38:04.640
<v Speaker 2>didn't want to go outside, but then I felt unsafe inside.

0:38:05.080 --> 0:38:07.600
<v Speaker 2>And then you'd see police officers, you hear sirens, you'd

0:38:07.600 --> 0:38:10.440
<v Speaker 2>hear bangings, you know, you hear a banging door, and

0:38:10.480 --> 0:38:14.240
<v Speaker 2>you can just remind you of a jail door closing,

0:38:14.280 --> 0:38:17.440
<v Speaker 2>you know, the closing. Yeah, triggers, heaps of triggers.

0:38:18.200 --> 0:38:20.919
<v Speaker 1>How did you eventually get your passport back?

0:38:22.960 --> 0:38:25.200
<v Speaker 2>We finally, the lawyer finally got it back.

0:38:26.480 --> 0:38:27.080
<v Speaker 1>And then.

0:38:28.719 --> 0:38:34.640
<v Speaker 2>Pretty much after that was when I laughed, because you're thinking, Okay,

0:38:34.680 --> 0:38:38.680
<v Speaker 2>I've got my passport and got my luggage. By this stage,

0:38:38.719 --> 0:38:41.719
<v Speaker 2>I'd moved out of that apartment. So we get to

0:38:41.800 --> 0:38:48.640
<v Speaker 2>immigration and I've got my passport, I've got my luggage.

0:38:48.920 --> 0:38:52.360
<v Speaker 2>I go into immigration and he looks at the paperwork

0:38:52.960 --> 0:38:56.560
<v Speaker 2>and he says, you've overstayed your visa by X amount

0:38:56.560 --> 0:39:00.719
<v Speaker 2>of months. I said, I understand that I'm I've been

0:39:00.760 --> 0:39:04.880
<v Speaker 2>in jail. He's the paperwork for them, you know. And

0:39:04.920 --> 0:39:10.319
<v Speaker 2>he goes and then there's an extra three months your law, Cambodian.

0:39:09.840 --> 0:39:14.120
<v Speaker 1>Law, you know where you I wasn't allowed to love, Yeah.

0:39:13.960 --> 0:39:19.239
<v Speaker 2>I wasn't allowed to leave. And then he just he

0:39:19.320 --> 0:39:23.200
<v Speaker 2>sits down and he's talking to her, the solicitor and

0:39:23.280 --> 0:39:27.640
<v Speaker 2>lawyer talking to her. They've come up with this agreement

0:39:27.680 --> 0:39:30.000
<v Speaker 2>that I should be paying. I think it was either

0:39:30.040 --> 0:39:33.719
<v Speaker 2>fifteen or twenty US dollars for every day i'd overstayed

0:39:33.760 --> 0:39:37.800
<v Speaker 2>my versa. So that quiet, and then he goes look forget,

0:39:37.880 --> 0:39:40.319
<v Speaker 2>and they're talking nothing. I can't understand what they're saying.

0:39:40.840 --> 0:39:44.440
<v Speaker 2>And then he goes, look, how about we square this

0:39:44.560 --> 0:39:49.920
<v Speaker 2>up five thousand US. I just looked at him and

0:39:49.960 --> 0:39:53.120
<v Speaker 2>I said, mate, I don't have any money. Yeah, and

0:39:53.160 --> 0:39:57.120
<v Speaker 2>then he kind of he kind of understood a little

0:39:57.120 --> 0:40:01.759
<v Speaker 2>bit and the body language, and then they've started going again,

0:40:01.800 --> 0:40:03.880
<v Speaker 2>and then he's gone down to twenty five hundred, and

0:40:03.920 --> 0:40:06.080
<v Speaker 2>I said, listen, I told you I don't have any money.

0:40:07.000 --> 0:40:10.680
<v Speaker 2>And then he started getting angry and he says, well,

0:40:10.800 --> 0:40:14.680
<v Speaker 2>I want receipts. You show me where you spend all

0:40:14.719 --> 0:40:17.600
<v Speaker 2>this money I said, well, you know, I just started

0:40:17.680 --> 0:40:23.080
<v Speaker 2>naming names, you know who didn't get a bribe. Basically

0:40:23.120 --> 0:40:26.040
<v Speaker 2>it was there. It was you know, everyone got a bribe,

0:40:26.080 --> 0:40:30.719
<v Speaker 2>you know. So and then he just couldn't handle any

0:40:30.760 --> 0:40:34.120
<v Speaker 2>more of it and he just get out, get out.

0:40:35.400 --> 0:40:38.239
<v Speaker 2>So and I think that was the last time I

0:40:38.360 --> 0:40:40.480
<v Speaker 2>saw my solicitor too. I'm pretty sure that was the

0:40:40.520 --> 0:40:43.759
<v Speaker 2>last communication I had with her ever. But I'm still

0:40:43.800 --> 0:40:49.040
<v Speaker 2>stuck in Cambodia. Like I said, Cambodia is it keeps

0:40:49.040 --> 0:40:52.120
<v Speaker 2>you there? You can't get out, you know, it traps

0:40:52.160 --> 0:40:56.920
<v Speaker 2>you there. So then the next time I'm speaking to

0:40:57.800 --> 0:41:00.799
<v Speaker 2>the embassy again, saying listen, deport me, deport me. I

0:41:00.840 --> 0:41:03.960
<v Speaker 2>want out. They're going, well, this is before I'd got

0:41:04.000 --> 0:41:06.319
<v Speaker 2>my passport back. They were saying, we can't deport you.

0:41:06.400 --> 0:41:08.480
<v Speaker 2>We know where your passport is. It's in the courts.

0:41:09.120 --> 0:41:11.120
<v Speaker 2>I'm saying, We'll just get me a new passport. Can't

0:41:11.120 --> 0:41:14.480
<v Speaker 2>you just do that? Can't I just sneak over the border?

0:41:14.480 --> 0:41:16.759
<v Speaker 2>Can't I do any of this stuff? They said, we

0:41:16.800 --> 0:41:19.400
<v Speaker 2>don't advise it. Have you get caught, You're going back

0:41:19.440 --> 0:41:22.040
<v Speaker 2>to jail. And I'm glad I didn't. Yeah, but in

0:41:22.040 --> 0:41:24.160
<v Speaker 2>the same taken when I heard that I had to

0:41:24.160 --> 0:41:26.560
<v Speaker 2>stay another three months. That was one of the times

0:41:26.560 --> 0:41:31.040
<v Speaker 2>that nearly broke me and I nearly took my own life. Yeah,

0:41:31.080 --> 0:41:34.400
<v Speaker 2>I was looking for places to jump. I found myself

0:41:34.440 --> 0:41:39.000
<v Speaker 2>in a state where I was checking door handles of

0:41:39.160 --> 0:41:41.239
<v Speaker 2>the top floor of the apartment building to see if

0:41:41.239 --> 0:41:43.600
<v Speaker 2>I'll get on the rooftop. Yeah.

0:41:43.680 --> 0:41:46.600
<v Speaker 1>And you think that the culmination of it, you just

0:41:46.640 --> 0:41:47.320
<v Speaker 1>had nothing.

0:41:47.200 --> 0:41:50.440
<v Speaker 2>Left, nothing left in the tank, nothing left mentally. You

0:41:50.480 --> 0:41:51.440
<v Speaker 2>know I was done.

0:41:51.680 --> 0:41:53.239
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Yeah, you've broken.

0:41:53.080 --> 0:41:55.320
<v Speaker 2>Broken, but very much so broken.

0:41:55.360 --> 0:41:55.600
<v Speaker 1>Man.

0:41:58.080 --> 0:42:01.520
<v Speaker 2>I've sat in front of my trauma counselor and broken

0:42:01.600 --> 0:42:04.600
<v Speaker 2>down many times, and that's one of the terms of used.

0:42:04.600 --> 0:42:06.920
<v Speaker 2>I just feel like a broken person. I feel like

0:42:09.320 --> 0:42:12.719
<v Speaker 2>sometimes I feel like I it would be better if

0:42:12.760 --> 0:42:16.080
<v Speaker 2>I wasn't around, you know, because I just I don't

0:42:16.080 --> 0:42:18.160
<v Speaker 2>know what I can give. I know I've got to offer.

0:42:18.880 --> 0:42:22.240
<v Speaker 2>She reminds me, I've got a lot to give an offer,

0:42:22.280 --> 0:42:23.240
<v Speaker 2>and it keeps me going.

0:42:24.280 --> 0:42:27.560
<v Speaker 1>And then you know, you're getting advice from experts, So

0:42:28.040 --> 0:42:30.200
<v Speaker 1>take what I say with a grain of salt. But

0:42:31.360 --> 0:42:34.279
<v Speaker 1>there's total respect there too. What you've got through a

0:42:34.280 --> 0:42:36.279
<v Speaker 1>lot of people wouldn't have got through and you talk

0:42:36.320 --> 0:42:40.879
<v Speaker 1>about shame and disappointment of all these different things. Mate,

0:42:40.920 --> 0:42:44.000
<v Speaker 1>you survived something that I reckon ninety percent of people

0:42:44.000 --> 0:42:44.720
<v Speaker 1>wouldn't survive.

0:42:45.040 --> 0:42:48.200
<v Speaker 2>Well, it blows my mind. I lost my mum. Yeah,

0:42:48.800 --> 0:42:51.080
<v Speaker 2>my relationship broke down and then I end up in

0:42:51.120 --> 0:42:51.760
<v Speaker 2>that position.

0:42:52.080 --> 0:42:52.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:42:52.480 --> 0:42:55.680
<v Speaker 2>One of those three can knock people around pretty baily,

0:42:55.680 --> 0:42:57.960
<v Speaker 2>and I got all three of them. But my mum

0:42:58.080 --> 0:42:58.840
<v Speaker 2>died in front of me.

0:42:59.480 --> 0:42:59.719
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:43:00.000 --> 0:43:03.440
<v Speaker 2>I was doing CPR and my mum with the mobile

0:43:03.520 --> 0:43:06.520
<v Speaker 2>phone with a loud speaker on with the lady counting

0:43:06.560 --> 0:43:11.239
<v Speaker 2>in to do the compressions until the ambulance drivers got there.

0:43:11.719 --> 0:43:14.080
<v Speaker 2>You know this, This, this is how it unfolded. There

0:43:14.160 --> 0:43:18.360
<v Speaker 2>was that, and the relationship came to breaking down, and

0:43:18.360 --> 0:43:20.040
<v Speaker 2>then I went on this holiday and ended up in

0:43:20.040 --> 0:43:22.239
<v Speaker 2>a campbadi in prison and not in the space of

0:43:22.280 --> 0:43:22.920
<v Speaker 2>a long time.

0:43:23.160 --> 0:43:26.680
<v Speaker 1>Okay, so you're dealing with dealing with so much.

0:43:26.520 --> 0:43:30.160
<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, I don't. I don't know how I've done it.

0:43:30.200 --> 0:43:34.359
<v Speaker 1>But again, you're doing it one step at the time. Yeah,

0:43:35.320 --> 0:43:36.240
<v Speaker 1>keep moving forward.

0:43:36.600 --> 0:43:38.720
<v Speaker 2>I mean I had beatings too where I couldn't count

0:43:38.760 --> 0:43:42.840
<v Speaker 2>and come my guard. Because you're doing prison counts, you

0:43:42.920 --> 0:43:46.160
<v Speaker 2>come up with a big set of old keys, you know,

0:43:46.200 --> 0:43:47.160
<v Speaker 2>and just smash it in.

0:43:47.120 --> 0:43:48.439
<v Speaker 1>The back of the head.

0:43:49.360 --> 0:43:53.319
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I can't even remember. I try to forget. Yeah

0:43:54.000 --> 0:43:56.400
<v Speaker 2>I used to be able to count to ten, but yeah,

0:43:57.320 --> 0:44:00.399
<v Speaker 2>you just do that, you know, things like that at all.

0:44:02.239 --> 0:44:06.400
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, getting back on. So I then went to

0:44:06.480 --> 0:44:09.880
<v Speaker 2>the embassy again and said, listen, this is what's going on.

0:44:10.080 --> 0:44:13.520
<v Speaker 2>They're trying to this is wrong. You told me three

0:44:13.600 --> 0:44:15.480
<v Speaker 2>more months I had to stay here. I did the

0:44:15.520 --> 0:44:17.279
<v Speaker 2>three months, and now they're trying to tell me that

0:44:17.320 --> 0:44:20.920
<v Speaker 2>I've got to pay, you know, because I've overstayed my visa.

0:44:21.600 --> 0:44:24.399
<v Speaker 2>This is wrong. What are you going to do about it?

0:44:25.440 --> 0:44:28.000
<v Speaker 2>And it got to the point where I had to

0:44:28.040 --> 0:44:32.440
<v Speaker 2>physically go down there myself, go into that office and say, listen,

0:44:32.520 --> 0:44:36.160
<v Speaker 2>there are no receipts. I want to be deported. I

0:44:36.200 --> 0:44:39.799
<v Speaker 2>wanted to be deported now. And I just I was

0:44:39.840 --> 0:44:43.400
<v Speaker 2>at that point where I didn't care what happened anymore.

0:44:43.520 --> 0:44:46.120
<v Speaker 1>You get to a point where, yeah.

0:44:45.760 --> 0:44:48.440
<v Speaker 2>Reckless, abandon if you want to call it, where you're

0:44:48.480 --> 0:44:51.040
<v Speaker 2>screaming at the top of your lungs. People are in

0:44:51.080 --> 0:44:53.880
<v Speaker 2>there just going what's going on here? I want to

0:44:53.880 --> 0:44:56.560
<v Speaker 2>be fucking deported. I want to be deported right now,

0:44:56.840 --> 0:45:00.439
<v Speaker 2>because the immigration office is literally just across a road

0:45:00.560 --> 0:45:05.880
<v Speaker 2>from the international airport. Two guys come in with guns right,

0:45:06.160 --> 0:45:10.040
<v Speaker 2>grab me, pulled me out, which was probably a good thing.

0:45:10.920 --> 0:45:14.360
<v Speaker 2>Pull me out. Say down there, it's the police station.

0:45:14.520 --> 0:45:16.880
<v Speaker 2>You go down there and you tell them what you're saying, okay,

0:45:17.239 --> 0:45:19.759
<v Speaker 2>because there they look after the people who get who

0:45:19.800 --> 0:45:22.239
<v Speaker 2>are getting deported, and they've got to stay in that

0:45:22.320 --> 0:45:24.880
<v Speaker 2>cell for a month. So I get down there or

0:45:24.960 --> 0:45:27.400
<v Speaker 2>fight up and then something clicks in me and I'm like,

0:45:27.640 --> 0:45:29.879
<v Speaker 2>I just got to remain calm. Now. I got out

0:45:29.880 --> 0:45:31.520
<v Speaker 2>of that situation when I didn't think I was.

0:45:32.000 --> 0:45:34.040
<v Speaker 1>It sounds like you're very lucky, lucky.

0:45:33.920 --> 0:45:37.279
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, very lucky. That guy could have just gone right,

0:45:37.360 --> 0:45:41.400
<v Speaker 2>police take him. But he sent me to a police station.

0:45:41.680 --> 0:45:45.319
<v Speaker 2>But it's also to do with immigration and stuff as well.

0:45:46.239 --> 0:45:48.960
<v Speaker 2>So anyway, I've gone down and seen him. I've told him, look,

0:45:49.040 --> 0:45:51.080
<v Speaker 2>I've showed him the paper I had all the paperwork

0:45:51.160 --> 0:45:54.279
<v Speaker 2>there as well. That's something I couldn't understand. So he

0:45:54.719 --> 0:45:57.640
<v Speaker 2>and he could speak fairly decent English, this one guy, right,

0:45:58.920 --> 0:46:02.760
<v Speaker 2>But I was upset. I was physically shaking. I was crying,

0:46:03.920 --> 0:46:08.040
<v Speaker 2>and he's looking at me, and like, when you're that emotional,

0:46:08.520 --> 0:46:11.120
<v Speaker 2>he'd start saying stuff to me, and I'd start cutting

0:46:11.160 --> 0:46:13.400
<v Speaker 2>him off, and he'd say, listen, do you want me

0:46:13.440 --> 0:46:16.640
<v Speaker 2>to help you or not? You know, you want me

0:46:16.680 --> 0:46:19.200
<v Speaker 2>to help you or not, he said, because usually i'd

0:46:19.200 --> 0:46:20.759
<v Speaker 2>put you in that seal. You be in that seal

0:46:20.840 --> 0:46:24.160
<v Speaker 2>for a month before you get deported. And that's the

0:46:24.239 --> 0:46:27.799
<v Speaker 2>last thing I needed. So anyways, and then he's got

0:46:27.800 --> 0:46:30.880
<v Speaker 2>my passport, which I was shitting myself about because the

0:46:30.960 --> 0:46:33.640
<v Speaker 2>last time someone had my passport I was ended up

0:46:33.680 --> 0:46:36.680
<v Speaker 2>back I was in prison, right, they didn't give it back.

0:46:37.360 --> 0:46:40.600
<v Speaker 2>He's got that. He's put me up against the wall

0:46:40.640 --> 0:46:44.200
<v Speaker 2>with a sign, you know, with the you know, I

0:46:44.239 --> 0:46:48.359
<v Speaker 2>don't even know what it. Yeah, like I was back

0:46:48.400 --> 0:46:51.600
<v Speaker 2>at the start in the airport, you know, with all

0:46:51.640 --> 0:46:54.640
<v Speaker 2>the pictures of all the deals and stuff on stuck

0:46:54.680 --> 0:46:56.040
<v Speaker 2>up the back, making me look like I was a

0:46:56.080 --> 0:46:57.080
<v Speaker 2>drug dealer or something.

0:46:57.120 --> 0:46:59.359
<v Speaker 1>You know that with a freak. Yeah, it did.

0:47:00.640 --> 0:47:03.520
<v Speaker 2>But when I wrote about it, I said I had

0:47:03.560 --> 0:47:08.680
<v Speaker 2>to trust him, even though every part of me said don't.

0:47:09.440 --> 0:47:12.840
<v Speaker 2>I just he had literally he had my life in

0:47:12.880 --> 0:47:16.560
<v Speaker 2>his hands. At that stage. I was so powerless, so

0:47:16.560 --> 0:47:22.480
<v Speaker 2>so powerless that if he'd taken it one direction, then

0:47:23.280 --> 0:47:25.200
<v Speaker 2>he could have said, oh, yeah, he's caught a scene

0:47:25.280 --> 0:47:28.000
<v Speaker 2>down there. Give him another six months or a year

0:47:28.120 --> 0:47:32.440
<v Speaker 2>or whatever, sort him out, you know. But then there

0:47:32.480 --> 0:47:34.440
<v Speaker 2>was all these other guys, and they're all asking me

0:47:34.560 --> 0:47:37.800
<v Speaker 2>questions where you're from, what you're doing, why you're in prison.

0:47:38.400 --> 0:47:40.880
<v Speaker 2>You know, some of them could talk a bit of English.

0:47:40.920 --> 0:47:44.279
<v Speaker 2>I guess it goes with immigration, you know, they must

0:47:44.320 --> 0:47:46.600
<v Speaker 2>have to know a little bit more English to understand,

0:47:46.640 --> 0:47:49.479
<v Speaker 2>like they can speak to Indians and so forth, because

0:47:49.480 --> 0:47:52.160
<v Speaker 2>they all speak English as well. And there was an

0:47:52.200 --> 0:47:55.160
<v Speaker 2>Indian bloke in funnily enough, in the detention center there,

0:47:55.200 --> 0:47:59.359
<v Speaker 2>while waiting to get out and so and then he goes, right,

0:47:59.440 --> 0:48:02.160
<v Speaker 2>what I need from you? How quickly can you get

0:48:02.160 --> 0:48:04.080
<v Speaker 2>a plane ticket? I said, I can get it tomorrow.

0:48:05.000 --> 0:48:07.640
<v Speaker 2>He was right. And then he gave me an email address,

0:48:07.680 --> 0:48:10.120
<v Speaker 2>and he said, and I lied and said that the

0:48:10.120 --> 0:48:16.799
<v Speaker 2>embassy sent me down here. I do, mate. But that

0:48:16.920 --> 0:48:19.399
<v Speaker 2>was the other thing. If if he caught onto that

0:48:20.120 --> 0:48:23.440
<v Speaker 2>the game was up, and you know, the embassy said

0:48:23.680 --> 0:48:25.759
<v Speaker 2>to come down here to speak to you, you.

0:48:25.680 --> 0:48:28.799
<v Speaker 1>Know about this, I'd put it in the little after.

0:48:28.640 --> 0:48:32.520
<v Speaker 2>Going yeah, after going up being up there, you know,

0:48:32.640 --> 0:48:34.480
<v Speaker 2>and then just sending me down. So obviously there was

0:48:34.480 --> 0:48:38.160
<v Speaker 2>no communication through that those two different entities or whatever.

0:48:38.200 --> 0:48:40.719
<v Speaker 2>I don't know. Well maybe that's what happened later with

0:48:40.719 --> 0:48:45.239
<v Speaker 2>the car, the card or better retribution for that. But

0:48:45.920 --> 0:48:48.719
<v Speaker 2>so anyways, I said, I can get it tomorrow and

0:48:49.040 --> 0:48:50.719
<v Speaker 2>get I can get a letter from the embassy, which

0:48:50.719 --> 0:48:54.200
<v Speaker 2>I did. It's just say, you know, well they photo

0:48:54.280 --> 0:48:57.120
<v Speaker 2>copied the because he says email it to me, and

0:48:57.160 --> 0:48:58.680
<v Speaker 2>I didn't want to do that. I said, no, mate,

0:48:58.719 --> 0:49:00.680
<v Speaker 2>I'll do you one better. I'll get a photo copy

0:49:00.719 --> 0:49:04.200
<v Speaker 2>of the flights. I'll hand it to you. I'll get

0:49:04.200 --> 0:49:06.040
<v Speaker 2>three copies, one for me, one for you, and one

0:49:06.040 --> 0:49:08.759
<v Speaker 2>for the embassy. And so I get down there, and

0:49:09.400 --> 0:49:11.640
<v Speaker 2>I get down there as early as possible because traffic's

0:49:11.640 --> 0:49:15.040
<v Speaker 2>bad and stuff like that, and with my luggage, with

0:49:15.080 --> 0:49:20.239
<v Speaker 2>my passport, and things just weren't seeming right, you know.

0:49:21.480 --> 0:49:24.400
<v Speaker 2>And you know, you meant to be on a flight,

0:49:24.680 --> 0:49:27.600
<v Speaker 2>an international flight. Was it three hours before you meant

0:49:27.640 --> 0:49:32.040
<v Speaker 2>to be at the the two hours to go? And

0:49:32.120 --> 0:49:35.440
<v Speaker 2>I'm asking, ah, you know, it's do we need to

0:49:35.560 --> 0:49:40.680
<v Speaker 2>get going across the road there? And then yeah, they're

0:49:40.719 --> 0:49:43.680
<v Speaker 2>all getting dressed up in their military outfits, like those

0:49:43.880 --> 0:49:46.840
<v Speaker 2>headhind chows at the prison. They're all in their black

0:49:47.040 --> 0:49:48.799
<v Speaker 2>They look like they're a car key with all their

0:49:48.840 --> 0:49:54.279
<v Speaker 2>medals and their black shiny shoes and the black bround. Yeah.

0:49:54.440 --> 0:49:58.520
<v Speaker 2>Then they're very proud, you know. And then he there's

0:49:58.560 --> 0:50:02.640
<v Speaker 2>a police car there, one that we're going in, and

0:50:02.640 --> 0:50:05.160
<v Speaker 2>he put your hand on there, like to get in,

0:50:05.560 --> 0:50:07.840
<v Speaker 2>and he just slams the door straight on it. Bang

0:50:08.360 --> 0:50:13.640
<v Speaker 2>there you go out. Yeah, that's a spiral fracture. Yeah,

0:50:14.120 --> 0:50:16.719
<v Speaker 2>the other fingers got in there as well, but that

0:50:16.880 --> 0:50:20.960
<v Speaker 2>one got the brun of it. Blood everywhere, blood everywhere.

0:50:21.040 --> 0:50:23.160
<v Speaker 1>So just he told you to put your hand there,

0:50:23.320 --> 0:50:24.640
<v Speaker 1>and then deliberately.

0:50:24.360 --> 0:50:26.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah yeah, but as I was getting in, so he's

0:50:26.800 --> 0:50:31.080
<v Speaker 2>strategically done it. But he's just gone bushka. And there

0:50:31.160 --> 0:50:34.440
<v Speaker 2>was no accident because then the cane came out. He

0:50:34.560 --> 0:50:38.040
<v Speaker 2>started caning me and another guy started caning me like

0:50:38.200 --> 0:50:40.360
<v Speaker 2>with a piece of you know that you get in

0:50:40.440 --> 0:50:44.080
<v Speaker 2>the school for massive Well, it's all over my back,

0:50:44.239 --> 0:50:48.400
<v Speaker 2>you know. Yeah, And I think one of the ways

0:50:48.440 --> 0:50:50.200
<v Speaker 2>that it was disguised is because I was covered in

0:50:50.280 --> 0:50:53.920
<v Speaker 2>say any other things, scabies and golden staff you.

0:50:54.000 --> 0:50:57.560
<v Speaker 1>Know, and then you look at picture of hell oh mate,

0:50:59.600 --> 0:51:00.560
<v Speaker 1>and I got, I got.

0:51:01.200 --> 0:51:04.040
<v Speaker 2>I got to you know. It was a half an

0:51:04.080 --> 0:51:06.560
<v Speaker 2>hour before we went over there and they marched me

0:51:06.640 --> 0:51:09.680
<v Speaker 2>in luggage. I didn't think, you know, there was there

0:51:09.760 --> 0:51:12.960
<v Speaker 2>was two things concerning me when I picked my luggage

0:51:13.000 --> 0:51:14.960
<v Speaker 2>up from the court because it'd been there a long

0:51:15.080 --> 0:51:17.640
<v Speaker 2>long time, that they might have signed something into it.

0:51:19.000 --> 0:51:23.200
<v Speaker 2>I had presents for my son and stepdaughter and all

0:51:23.239 --> 0:51:27.799
<v Speaker 2>this at the time, right, they were all taken all.

0:51:28.400 --> 0:51:30.000
<v Speaker 2>The only thing they didn't take was the sea and

0:51:30.080 --> 0:51:32.080
<v Speaker 2>reaped t shirt with a picture of ank or what

0:51:32.280 --> 0:51:34.800
<v Speaker 2>on it, because that would be bad for them to do.

0:51:35.040 --> 0:51:35.239
<v Speaker 2>You know.

0:51:37.040 --> 0:51:39.880
<v Speaker 1>But I think they've got karma coming at them in

0:51:40.000 --> 0:51:40.319
<v Speaker 1>some way.

0:51:40.400 --> 0:51:43.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well they just yeah, well, I don't know that

0:51:43.719 --> 0:51:46.960
<v Speaker 2>that's they used religion when they want to know, with

0:51:47.080 --> 0:51:50.240
<v Speaker 2>the Buddhism, I thought Buddhas would meant to be peaceful.

0:51:50.760 --> 0:51:52.719
<v Speaker 2>And I said to one, I copt a beating for

0:51:52.800 --> 0:51:58.719
<v Speaker 2>that too. Bordha's watching you, Ba's watching you. Yeah, got

0:51:58.760 --> 0:52:00.799
<v Speaker 2>a bashing for trying to save someone his life as well,

0:52:00.880 --> 0:52:05.439
<v Speaker 2>you know, performing CPR on them. They said, let him die.

0:52:07.320 --> 0:52:09.440
<v Speaker 2>I was screaming out for the guards. They never come,

0:52:11.640 --> 0:52:16.839
<v Speaker 2>so yeah, and then my thingers bleeding everywhere. He's put

0:52:16.880 --> 0:52:19.839
<v Speaker 2>a bit of tape around it, tissue and a bit

0:52:19.880 --> 0:52:23.040
<v Speaker 2>of tape. Put me on the plane and it felt

0:52:23.080 --> 0:52:27.319
<v Speaker 2>like an eternity sitting on that tarmac. I just thought

0:52:27.360 --> 0:52:29.960
<v Speaker 2>they were going to come back walking back on which

0:52:30.000 --> 0:52:32.200
<v Speaker 2>they could have done, because it's almost like they're the

0:52:32.239 --> 0:52:35.120
<v Speaker 2>military the police over there. They've got the same power

0:52:35.600 --> 0:52:39.919
<v Speaker 2>pretty much. You know, the King of Cambardia doesn't really

0:52:40.040 --> 0:52:42.280
<v Speaker 2>do anything. It's the Prime minister who's got all the power.

0:52:43.200 --> 0:52:46.640
<v Speaker 2>And anyways, but we talk off when I get to Thailand,

0:52:47.160 --> 0:52:51.239
<v Speaker 2>and thankfully they had a hospital in the airport which

0:52:51.320 --> 0:52:54.960
<v Speaker 2>they could clean it up because I was worried about disease,

0:52:55.080 --> 0:52:58.520
<v Speaker 2>and you know, they're just the fact that the stuff

0:52:58.560 --> 0:53:01.080
<v Speaker 2>in the air it just breeds back to aia, you know,

0:53:01.320 --> 0:53:04.120
<v Speaker 2>very quickly. And they fixed that up and then I

0:53:04.239 --> 0:53:08.520
<v Speaker 2>got but I was stuck in Thai airport for twenty hours,

0:53:08.960 --> 0:53:11.600
<v Speaker 2>still walking around in my ratty old clothes, you know,

0:53:12.360 --> 0:53:15.080
<v Speaker 2>because everything in the bag that wasn't stolen was filthy.

0:53:15.719 --> 0:53:18.560
<v Speaker 1>You know, I'd been there over a year, but I

0:53:18.600 --> 0:53:21.320
<v Speaker 1>could imagine from what you've come from, it was probably luxury.

0:53:22.400 --> 0:53:24.480
<v Speaker 2>I was going into you know where you can go

0:53:24.600 --> 0:53:27.920
<v Speaker 2>and use the testers doing that because I was stinking,

0:53:28.360 --> 0:53:31.719
<v Speaker 2>and I was filthy, you know, and bit my feet

0:53:31.800 --> 0:53:34.680
<v Speaker 2>were filthy. I had a pair of radiold thongs on.

0:53:35.280 --> 0:53:39.600
<v Speaker 2>I landed in Sydney Airport and it was freezing, absolutely

0:53:39.680 --> 0:53:42.480
<v Speaker 2>freezing out A short, short pair of pair of shorts,

0:53:42.520 --> 0:53:43.440
<v Speaker 2>T shirt and thongs on.

0:53:44.320 --> 0:53:45.279
<v Speaker 1>Who was here to meet you?

0:53:45.600 --> 0:53:47.480
<v Speaker 2>No one I had to get from. Then I had

0:53:47.520 --> 0:53:49.400
<v Speaker 2>to get the plane up to the Gold Coast right.

0:53:50.520 --> 0:53:54.399
<v Speaker 2>And the funny story is that because I didn't drank

0:53:55.000 --> 0:53:58.200
<v Speaker 2>in such a long long time, these old rock and

0:53:58.320 --> 0:54:02.040
<v Speaker 2>rollers get on at Sydney right and wearing their sunglasses

0:54:02.080 --> 0:54:05.520
<v Speaker 2>and long scraggly hair. And then this guy gets on

0:54:05.680 --> 0:54:07.960
<v Speaker 2>with the aviators and the long curly hair. I can

0:54:08.080 --> 0:54:10.719
<v Speaker 2>smell him coming from the front of the plane. I

0:54:10.800 --> 0:54:13.480
<v Speaker 2>can smell the whiskey on him, a cigarette. It was

0:54:13.600 --> 0:54:17.200
<v Speaker 2>Dave Gleason now screaming jets and so I had him

0:54:17.280 --> 0:54:20.760
<v Speaker 2>sitting somewhere close to me in a Titans footy player

0:54:21.760 --> 0:54:23.960
<v Speaker 2>sitting directly across from me. I think it might have

0:54:24.000 --> 0:54:27.080
<v Speaker 2>been four and actually, and then when I got off

0:54:27.120 --> 0:54:31.279
<v Speaker 2>the plane, I always promised myself this. I got off

0:54:31.320 --> 0:54:33.719
<v Speaker 2>the plane. I literally went down. I was at the

0:54:33.760 --> 0:54:35.960
<v Speaker 2>back getting off the back, down the stairs and kissed

0:54:35.960 --> 0:54:38.920
<v Speaker 2>the ground. And he's looked at me and gone, what's

0:54:39.000 --> 0:54:42.080
<v Speaker 2>going on there? Said, mate, don't even ask. Just got up,

0:54:42.520 --> 0:54:47.040
<v Speaker 2>got into the airport waiting for my luggage, and I

0:54:47.120 --> 0:54:49.239
<v Speaker 2>saw Max Partner and you could see the look on

0:54:49.400 --> 0:54:52.600
<v Speaker 2>her face. She hugged me, but you could see the

0:54:52.680 --> 0:54:56.359
<v Speaker 2>look on her face. She couldn't believe how much weight

0:54:56.440 --> 0:54:59.960
<v Speaker 2>I'd lost. I was skin and bone and I was covered.

0:55:01.160 --> 0:55:05.360
<v Speaker 2>I'm surprised you wanted to argue. I was down to

0:55:05.480 --> 0:55:10.200
<v Speaker 2>forty forty five kes, something really gaunt in the face,

0:55:10.680 --> 0:55:13.879
<v Speaker 2>rib sticking out everywhere, and it took me a long

0:55:13.920 --> 0:55:16.879
<v Speaker 2>time to get any appetite back. You know, I couldn't eat.

0:55:17.800 --> 0:55:20.960
<v Speaker 1>How your health you would have got your health checked out?

0:55:22.080 --> 0:55:26.000
<v Speaker 2>I had to how you scrub up with any I

0:55:26.080 --> 0:55:30.960
<v Speaker 2>had every every blood test done for every STD all

0:55:31.080 --> 0:55:35.000
<v Speaker 2>come back negative, thankfully. I had a lot of general

0:55:35.080 --> 0:55:37.239
<v Speaker 2>towards and things like that. I had to get burnt off,

0:55:38.960 --> 0:55:41.920
<v Speaker 2>and then you know, the scabies and stuff that and

0:55:42.440 --> 0:55:46.000
<v Speaker 2>the Golden Staff was pretty bad. Like it took a

0:55:46.120 --> 0:55:51.560
<v Speaker 2>long time with tablets, ointments that you weren't just putting

0:55:51.640 --> 0:55:55.879
<v Speaker 2>dab and it was everywhere and for weeks or some well,

0:55:55.960 --> 0:55:58.279
<v Speaker 2>my face only took My face took the longest to

0:55:58.320 --> 0:56:01.239
<v Speaker 2>clear up. I don't know why, but it was maybe

0:56:01.280 --> 0:56:03.960
<v Speaker 2>a good month and a half before I've seen any results.

0:56:04.120 --> 0:56:08.359
<v Speaker 2>Was that bad, you know, And just the weight as well,

0:56:09.480 --> 0:56:14.560
<v Speaker 2>Like it was scary and I just couldn't eat. And

0:56:15.920 --> 0:56:19.920
<v Speaker 2>but you know, it's not just because it's over. It's

0:56:20.000 --> 0:56:20.480
<v Speaker 2>never over.

0:56:21.080 --> 0:56:25.840
<v Speaker 1>No, you're describing the physical repairing of yourself, but I

0:56:26.320 --> 0:56:29.480
<v Speaker 1>imagine there's a mental and emotional scarring there.

0:56:29.840 --> 0:56:32.879
<v Speaker 2>I just I can't work at the moment at all.

0:56:34.160 --> 0:56:39.120
<v Speaker 2>Everything triggers my traumas everything. I can't have people sitting

0:56:39.200 --> 0:56:42.279
<v Speaker 2>behind me. I've always I can see people out of

0:56:42.280 --> 0:56:45.240
<v Speaker 2>the corners of my eyes, you know, I always always

0:56:45.280 --> 0:56:53.160
<v Speaker 2>can see constantly worried about noises. It just triggers anxiety

0:56:53.239 --> 0:56:59.680
<v Speaker 2>as well, triggers trauma, you know, just so many different things,

0:56:59.840 --> 0:57:03.480
<v Speaker 2>like I can't sleep at night. The nightmares are some

0:57:03.560 --> 0:57:05.840
<v Speaker 2>of the worst things I've ever had in my life,

0:57:06.920 --> 0:57:12.600
<v Speaker 2>Like the especially you know, reoccurring nightmares, the rape. For example,

0:57:12.960 --> 0:57:16.040
<v Speaker 2>when I was saying to you before about you know,

0:57:16.360 --> 0:57:21.680
<v Speaker 2>I've never felt a sensation in a dream before, or

0:57:21.760 --> 0:57:25.360
<v Speaker 2>a smell. I can still feel that cold damp floor

0:57:25.480 --> 0:57:27.120
<v Speaker 2>on the side of my face when my head was

0:57:27.200 --> 0:57:30.960
<v Speaker 2>pushed down into the concrete while I was being attacked

0:57:31.200 --> 0:57:36.160
<v Speaker 2>sexually assaulted. The smell of the sewer, looking at the

0:57:36.320 --> 0:57:41.160
<v Speaker 2>filthy cook like crevice of a white wall, you know,

0:57:41.920 --> 0:57:46.160
<v Speaker 2>picturing that like just trying to, like I said, trying

0:57:46.240 --> 0:57:49.920
<v Speaker 2>to not think about what was happening to me. But

0:57:50.040 --> 0:57:55.920
<v Speaker 2>those it's almost like a still shot. But but in

0:57:56.040 --> 0:58:02.000
<v Speaker 2>a movie, like shots of a movie, it's not good.

0:58:02.400 --> 0:58:04.080
<v Speaker 2>It's not good, and it's going to take a long

0:58:04.160 --> 0:58:05.200
<v Speaker 2>time to get right.

0:58:05.600 --> 0:58:09.480
<v Speaker 1>What the type of services are available to well.

0:58:09.520 --> 0:58:13.760
<v Speaker 2>I see a psychiatrist every fortnight, and I see a

0:58:13.920 --> 0:58:19.200
<v Speaker 2>sexual trauma counselor every week. But you know, look, when

0:58:19.240 --> 0:58:22.000
<v Speaker 2>I first got back to after I spent the first week,

0:58:22.200 --> 0:58:25.120
<v Speaker 2>how long have you been back now it's about six

0:58:25.200 --> 0:58:28.560
<v Speaker 2>and a half months, I think. But when I first

0:58:28.640 --> 0:58:31.800
<v Speaker 2>got back to every service and it was very hard

0:58:31.880 --> 0:58:34.080
<v Speaker 2>to because you know, they deal a lot of people

0:58:34.120 --> 0:58:36.520
<v Speaker 2>coming out of prison in Australia, but they don't deal

0:58:36.560 --> 0:58:39.760
<v Speaker 2>a lot of people coming from overseas, and so they

0:58:39.920 --> 0:58:42.200
<v Speaker 2>just didn't know how to deal with me, and put

0:58:42.280 --> 0:58:44.840
<v Speaker 2>me to someone else. And you can't understand. My trauma

0:58:44.920 --> 0:58:49.000
<v Speaker 2>levels are so high, My anxiety levels are so high

0:58:49.160 --> 0:58:52.000
<v Speaker 2>that it's going in one ear coming out the other.

0:58:52.640 --> 0:58:55.280
<v Speaker 2>I'll go and see these people. I must have met

0:58:55.400 --> 0:59:00.200
<v Speaker 2>thirty or twenty people, all different abbreviated PhDs, this that

0:59:00.360 --> 0:59:03.400
<v Speaker 2>the other you know. Couldn't remember half of them. I

0:59:03.560 --> 0:59:06.480
<v Speaker 2>was writing them down, still couldn't remember. I was getting bombarded.

0:59:06.520 --> 0:59:08.600
<v Speaker 2>But they just moved me on and moved me on,

0:59:08.680 --> 0:59:10.560
<v Speaker 2>and moved me on and moved me on to another agency.

0:59:10.840 --> 0:59:13.440
<v Speaker 2>Couldn't deal with it. Then I got to like housing

0:59:13.560 --> 0:59:17.320
<v Speaker 2>places to sort out some temporar accommodation. They asked me

0:59:17.400 --> 0:59:19.360
<v Speaker 2>the wrong question, so I fell through the cracks there.

0:59:20.520 --> 0:59:22.440
<v Speaker 2>One of the ladies from safe Haven said are very

0:59:22.520 --> 0:59:25.680
<v Speaker 2>poignant things. She said, It's like you've just been plucked

0:59:26.040 --> 0:59:29.160
<v Speaker 2>from Mars and been chuck straight back on Earth. You're

0:59:29.240 --> 0:59:33.160
<v Speaker 2>just an alien, you know how you're dealing with all this,

0:59:33.480 --> 0:59:38.840
<v Speaker 2>like everything your sensory overload from coming from you everywhere,

0:59:39.000 --> 0:59:43.200
<v Speaker 2>And then and then some temporary accommodation is not ideal

0:59:43.440 --> 0:59:46.760
<v Speaker 2>and you stay there and it just triggers trauma. Because

0:59:46.800 --> 0:59:49.720
<v Speaker 2>of other people there that have got other issues themselves,

0:59:49.880 --> 0:59:53.640
<v Speaker 2>you know. So it's not been easy. I've been living

0:59:53.680 --> 1:00:00.440
<v Speaker 2>in my car at times. You know, it's not good. No, So,

1:00:00.720 --> 1:00:06.120
<v Speaker 2>you know I think today, I mean, there's so much

1:00:06.480 --> 1:00:10.320
<v Speaker 2>much more we could discuss about things. But I really

1:00:10.400 --> 1:00:14.640
<v Speaker 2>want people to understand be very cautious when you go overseas.

1:00:15.960 --> 1:00:17.800
<v Speaker 2>You might not be. You might be just crossing a

1:00:17.920 --> 1:00:20.880
<v Speaker 2>road and someone runs a map ed into your leg

1:00:21.120 --> 1:00:24.520
<v Speaker 2>and goes you were drunk, calls the police up, you

1:00:24.600 --> 1:00:28.040
<v Speaker 2>get arrested. That's how there was people in the Canvadian

1:00:28.080 --> 1:00:30.320
<v Speaker 2>prison that they were set up. You know, they just

1:00:30.400 --> 1:00:34.720
<v Speaker 2>flee them for money because they're European or whatever. Just

1:00:34.800 --> 1:00:39.120
<v Speaker 2>be very mindful about that. And I don't think that

1:00:39.600 --> 1:00:42.400
<v Speaker 2>because you're an Australian citizen that there's someone there to

1:00:42.480 --> 1:00:43.960
<v Speaker 2>help you either. Yeah, we're not.

1:00:44.120 --> 1:00:46.480
<v Speaker 1>We're not eve, aren't we. Yeah, Like I think of

1:00:46.560 --> 1:00:49.480
<v Speaker 1>all the third world countries I've traveled in, the stupid

1:00:49.520 --> 1:00:52.760
<v Speaker 1>stuff you do when you're traveling, or the risks you take.

1:00:54.440 --> 1:00:59.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, But most importantly, I hope it puts a real

1:01:00.160 --> 1:01:04.680
<v Speaker 2>strong light on the fact that you could, you know,

1:01:04.880 --> 1:01:07.400
<v Speaker 2>you could be in any situation and end up in prison.

1:01:07.840 --> 1:01:12.280
<v Speaker 2>That's what happened to me. I did nothing wrong, and

1:01:13.160 --> 1:01:15.480
<v Speaker 2>I I've had one hell of a hell of a time.

1:01:15.640 --> 1:01:19.360
<v Speaker 1>You know, it's such such an important message. And when

1:01:19.480 --> 1:01:22.760
<v Speaker 1>their mutual friend got in contact with me and told

1:01:22.800 --> 1:01:25.320
<v Speaker 1>me a little bit about your story and then started

1:01:25.360 --> 1:01:29.280
<v Speaker 1>breathing documents, yeah you had it just blew me away.

1:01:29.720 --> 1:01:34.600
<v Speaker 1>And yeah, obviously here on my catch Killers, we have

1:01:34.760 --> 1:01:36.560
<v Speaker 1>people who have done a lot of time in prison

1:01:36.640 --> 1:01:39.320
<v Speaker 1>for a variety of crimes. But this is I think

1:01:39.400 --> 1:01:42.840
<v Speaker 1>this is an example of how something so innocuous can

1:01:42.960 --> 1:01:47.960
<v Speaker 1>turn into just change your life. But I also want

1:01:48.000 --> 1:01:51.520
<v Speaker 1>to make the point that your courage for you to

1:01:51.600 --> 1:01:54.840
<v Speaker 1>come out and talk about this, because I can see

1:01:54.920 --> 1:01:57.640
<v Speaker 1>how sometimes it might be your inclination. I just want

1:01:57.680 --> 1:01:59.040
<v Speaker 1>to walk away from it. I don't want to know

1:01:59.120 --> 1:02:01.760
<v Speaker 1>about They want to try and forget it. But my

1:02:01.960 --> 1:02:05.120
<v Speaker 1>way of viewing the way that you're approaching this, you're

1:02:05.160 --> 1:02:08.160
<v Speaker 1>taking it on, acknowledge that, not letting it break you,

1:02:08.440 --> 1:02:13.240
<v Speaker 1>and you're moving forward. And I keep coming back to

1:02:13.320 --> 1:02:15.919
<v Speaker 1>it because I'm just thinking, and I think anyone that's

1:02:16.040 --> 1:02:18.480
<v Speaker 1>listened to this podcast would be wondering how would I

1:02:18.600 --> 1:02:21.200
<v Speaker 1>react in that situation? That you found yourself in. Would

1:02:21.200 --> 1:02:24.400
<v Speaker 1>I survive? I don't know, Like that was a hardcore

1:02:25.160 --> 1:02:26.360
<v Speaker 1>where you found yourself in.

1:02:27.040 --> 1:02:30.880
<v Speaker 2>It's funny how you know you can find resilience in

1:02:30.960 --> 1:02:32.640
<v Speaker 2>the places that you don't know where you've got them,

1:02:33.480 --> 1:02:39.720
<v Speaker 2>you know. I just again, there was times where I

1:02:39.800 --> 1:02:41.800
<v Speaker 2>didn't think I was going to make it, to be honest,

1:02:42.440 --> 1:02:44.320
<v Speaker 2>I had to think about my son, you know, he's

1:02:44.400 --> 1:02:47.640
<v Speaker 2>the one. And if it wasn't for my partner ex partner,

1:02:48.680 --> 1:02:51.520
<v Speaker 2>you know, sending that money. I mean, there's many factors

1:02:51.520 --> 1:02:54.920
<v Speaker 2>that kept me alive, yeah, you know, but they were

1:02:54.960 --> 1:02:57.280
<v Speaker 2>the two main ones. She saved my life. You know,

1:02:57.360 --> 1:02:59.480
<v Speaker 2>I'm forever, eternally grateful for her for that.

1:03:00.880 --> 1:03:04.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Well, you talked about another Aussie bloke that was

1:03:04.880 --> 1:03:08.000
<v Speaker 1>over there, and he had a long sentence and you

1:03:08.080 --> 1:03:11.120
<v Speaker 1>don't know what's happened to him, No, And I don't.

1:03:11.000 --> 1:03:14.160
<v Speaker 2>See that the Australian embassy would be able to do

1:03:14.200 --> 1:03:17.040
<v Speaker 2>anything to help him there. Yeah, and I'd be very

1:03:17.120 --> 1:03:22.000
<v Speaker 2>surprised whether he's still alive or not. Yeah, it's you

1:03:22.160 --> 1:03:26.080
<v Speaker 2>just if you've got no money, you've got no chance.

1:03:26.800 --> 1:03:29.280
<v Speaker 2>And that's that's just that's the bottom.

1:03:28.960 --> 1:03:29.640
<v Speaker 1>Line, you know.

1:03:30.440 --> 1:03:34.480
<v Speaker 2>And if you get sick, you die. You're constantly battling

1:03:34.560 --> 1:03:37.040
<v Speaker 2>those things, you know, like I just can't get sick.

1:03:37.520 --> 1:03:40.240
<v Speaker 1>You know, like it's tiptoeing through it. Mindfild it is.

1:03:40.440 --> 1:03:41.840
<v Speaker 2>And then you've got people coming at you, want to

1:03:41.880 --> 1:03:46.560
<v Speaker 2>attack you, rape ya, kill you, pedophiles all around as well.

1:03:46.680 --> 1:03:48.920
<v Speaker 2>Like I didn't even touch on those kind of guys

1:03:49.000 --> 1:03:52.440
<v Speaker 2>I met, ye, mate, there's some of the stuff that

1:03:52.600 --> 1:03:57.320
<v Speaker 2>they did the young kids. But this guy came into

1:03:57.360 --> 1:04:00.200
<v Speaker 2>the cell on the very first day that he got

1:04:00.240 --> 1:04:05.160
<v Speaker 2>into prison, tried to commit suicide, jumped on off the roof,

1:04:05.200 --> 1:04:07.200
<v Speaker 2>climbed up on the roof and jumped on the razor. Y.

1:04:07.320 --> 1:04:11.840
<v Speaker 2>His name was Stephan from Switzerland. So I was in

1:04:11.920 --> 1:04:14.160
<v Speaker 2>the hospital at this time. So he's been stitched up

1:04:14.680 --> 1:04:17.400
<v Speaker 2>like he's you know, but he stayed in our room.

1:04:18.440 --> 1:04:20.440
<v Speaker 2>Now before when I was telling you about those two

1:04:20.480 --> 1:04:23.520
<v Speaker 2>guys who worked at the hospital, they also got the

1:04:23.640 --> 1:04:26.320
<v Speaker 2>charge sheets, so they could tell when I walked in there.

1:04:26.320 --> 1:04:28.000
<v Speaker 2>They get like, oh, you're the at M guy.

1:04:28.280 --> 1:04:29.840
<v Speaker 1>Okay, So they get fed to them.

1:04:31.400 --> 1:04:34.640
<v Speaker 2>Because they can't speak very decent English or you know,

1:04:35.280 --> 1:04:39.040
<v Speaker 2>English very well. I was almost like the conduit between

1:04:39.440 --> 1:04:42.560
<v Speaker 2>Stephan and because he could speak five languages. This guy

1:04:44.200 --> 1:04:48.200
<v Speaker 2>and all the pedophiles always had the same thing as well.

1:04:48.240 --> 1:04:50.680
<v Speaker 2>They'd all blame the angio. The angios of people come

1:04:50.760 --> 1:04:55.160
<v Speaker 2>in and say, listen, you're you're in trouble, you know.

1:04:56.680 --> 1:05:00.840
<v Speaker 2>So I've been read what this guy has done. He

1:05:01.040 --> 1:05:03.960
<v Speaker 2>had so he was with this woman who had six

1:05:04.160 --> 1:05:10.160
<v Speaker 2>kids to six different fellas. She's a nice addict Cambodian woman.

1:05:10.480 --> 1:05:15.120
<v Speaker 2>He's living with her. He's prostituting these children out to

1:05:15.280 --> 1:05:18.640
<v Speaker 2>men were coming to the house. I think the oldest

1:05:18.760 --> 1:05:21.960
<v Speaker 2>was ten, you know what I mean, And the youngest

1:05:22.080 --> 1:05:26.520
<v Speaker 2>was four boys and girls, you know. And I'm having

1:05:26.600 --> 1:05:29.680
<v Speaker 2>to sit there and try and speak to this guy.

1:05:30.120 --> 1:05:32.480
<v Speaker 2>And you know, as you know of the podcast I

1:05:32.560 --> 1:05:34.560
<v Speaker 2>mentioned many times, we've got a son and he was

1:05:34.600 --> 1:05:40.320
<v Speaker 2>four at the time, and just and they very what

1:05:40.440 --> 1:05:43.080
<v Speaker 2>I learned about the pedophiles in the time that I

1:05:43.120 --> 1:05:45.760
<v Speaker 2>spent with him in prison. As the master manipulators, they'll

1:05:45.800 --> 1:05:49.640
<v Speaker 2>turn everything back on you. They deflect all the time,

1:05:49.720 --> 1:05:53.040
<v Speaker 2>they deflect. I'll turn the conversation to something else, like

1:05:53.160 --> 1:05:56.640
<v Speaker 2>the angio was a perfect example. Ah. They they've been

1:05:56.720 --> 1:06:01.600
<v Speaker 2>trying to catch me. It's the corruption and this and

1:06:01.720 --> 1:06:04.960
<v Speaker 2>that and the other and you know, sure I might

1:06:05.040 --> 1:06:06.960
<v Speaker 2>go on, but with that something like that, you know,

1:06:07.680 --> 1:06:13.120
<v Speaker 2>where yeah, things like that, and having to deal with

1:06:13.240 --> 1:06:16.120
<v Speaker 2>those guys that goal was in my cell for you know.

1:06:16.440 --> 1:06:19.240
<v Speaker 2>And because he had money, they left him alone, you know.

1:06:19.760 --> 1:06:22.640
<v Speaker 2>And then he started manipulating people in the cell, because

1:06:22.640 --> 1:06:26.120
<v Speaker 2>there was always six or seven people that were regulars

1:06:26.160 --> 1:06:31.520
<v Speaker 2>in that cell, me included, and he started manipulating you know, people,

1:06:31.720 --> 1:06:36.080
<v Speaker 2>and you know, like yeah, and then as soon as

1:06:36.120 --> 1:06:39.160
<v Speaker 2>he got better, the first thing he did was signed

1:06:39.240 --> 1:06:41.880
<v Speaker 2>up with this American guy who had been doing whatever

1:06:41.960 --> 1:06:47.120
<v Speaker 2>he'd been doing to just terrific stuff.

1:06:47.720 --> 1:06:53.280
<v Speaker 1>There's levels of yeah that just keep stooping down in

1:06:53.360 --> 1:06:58.160
<v Speaker 1>a prison, prison like that. Well, yeah, and as you've

1:06:58.240 --> 1:07:00.560
<v Speaker 1>told me, and then all the conversations we've had, there

1:07:00.680 --> 1:07:04.520
<v Speaker 1>so many stories, and I've only drawn on a small

1:07:04.600 --> 1:07:08.480
<v Speaker 1>part of it. The document we've been referring to as

1:07:08.520 --> 1:07:12.880
<v Speaker 1>a narrative that you wrote down. I read it and

1:07:13.840 --> 1:07:15.440
<v Speaker 1>I was blown away. And as I said to you,

1:07:15.520 --> 1:07:18.120
<v Speaker 1>I was reading another book and prep for a guest

1:07:18.200 --> 1:07:20.320
<v Speaker 1>coming on the podcast, and this was sent to me

1:07:20.520 --> 1:07:23.480
<v Speaker 1>by a mutual friend, and I started reading and I

1:07:23.520 --> 1:07:25.360
<v Speaker 1>didn't put it down because I just it was just

1:07:25.480 --> 1:07:30.880
<v Speaker 1>so heavy in what's there? So an amazing story, and

1:07:31.360 --> 1:07:34.760
<v Speaker 1>I've just got to say in finishing up, Yeah, I

1:07:34.800 --> 1:07:36.760
<v Speaker 1>don't think you should feel shame. I think you should

1:07:36.760 --> 1:07:38.640
<v Speaker 1>be proud of the fact that you survived the situation

1:07:38.800 --> 1:07:39.760
<v Speaker 1>that most people wouldn't.

1:07:40.000 --> 1:07:41.720
<v Speaker 2>Thank you, Gary, I appreciate that. Really.

1:07:42.600 --> 1:07:44.560
<v Speaker 1>All the best, all the best for the future. It

1:07:44.800 --> 1:07:45.680
<v Speaker 1>was a good future.

1:07:45.760 --> 1:07:46.520
<v Speaker 2>Thank you, Thank you.

1:07:47.000 --> 1:07:47.280
<v Speaker 1>Cheers.