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Speaker 1: The public has had a long held fascination with detectives.

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Speaker 1: Detective sy aside of life the average person is never

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Speaker 1: exposed to. I spent thirty four years as a cop.

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Speaker 1: For twenty five of those years I was catching killers.

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Speaker 1: That's what I did for a living. I was a

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Speaker 1: homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead,

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Speaker 1: I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated.

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Speaker 1: The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories

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Speaker 1: from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw

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Speaker 1: and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some

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Speaker 1: of the content and language might be confronting. That's because

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Speaker 1: no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged.

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Speaker 1: Join me now as I take you into this world. Ian,

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Speaker 1: welcome back to part two. Thank you if I catch killers.

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Speaker 1: I'm digesting some of the things that you're saying. And

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Speaker 1: I look at you sit here, looking at you, and

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Speaker 1: we talked of off camera a little bit during the

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Speaker 1: break and how intimidating an environment that would have to be.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, Like I said, words can't describe. It's very

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Speaker 2: hard to, you know, deal with everything.

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Speaker 1: And I would imagine the emotional angst about what the

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Speaker 1: hell am I doing in here? When am I going

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Speaker 1: to get out? You just don't know how long this

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Speaker 1: nightmare is going to go on for.

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Speaker 2: That's true.

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Speaker 1: And now in jail you you had the fight, Yeah, plenty.

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Speaker 1: How many fights would you estimate your head?

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Speaker 2: Ten?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Maybe?

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Speaker 1: Maybe? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Maybe? Well it was a few kind of scuffles, but

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Speaker 2: probably ten, probably good ones.

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Speaker 1: Were you a physical bloke before you went went there?

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Speaker 1: Were you?

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Speaker 2: Oh? I mean I was waying what seventy eight kilos?

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Speaker 2: I'd done a little bit of boxing through my childhood

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Speaker 2: with a few fellas from the beaches and stuff. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't as a professional boxer though, Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 2: you know, I can handle myself to a degree.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So you could invoke some aggression where you needed

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Speaker 1: to stand up for yourself.

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Speaker 2: And I had, you know, I had a fair bit

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Speaker 2: of aggression because of my situation. You know, I could

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Speaker 2: draw on that.

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Speaker 1: Why are you so angry? Why are you so angry?

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Speaker 1: Just let it go. I honestly, mate, I don't know

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Speaker 1: how you survived. I'm sitting here and I'm looking at you.

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Speaker 2: Know.

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Speaker 1: We've had people on that have committed crimes that they

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Speaker 1: know they're going to get if they get caught, they're

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Speaker 1: going to get lengthy sentences in foreign prisons and different things.

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Speaker 1: But we're talking at the worst. It's damaged to an

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Speaker 1: ATM machine. And I can tell you after me meeting you,

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Speaker 1: if I go across it whenever I'm overseas, be very

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Speaker 1: kind to ATM machines.

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't be going to camba to you.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Well, look, we make light of a situation so

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Speaker 1: far from light, but I think sometimes you've got to

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Speaker 1: find that the brightness in the darkness or you can't survive.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Well I've had that from good advice for people,

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Speaker 2: that you've just got to move forward. And yeah, and

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Speaker 2: look again I said earlier, you either laugh or you cry,

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Speaker 2: and I've done me crying, and I'm in Sydney laughing,

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Speaker 2: but I'm not on the inside. It's just it's one

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Speaker 2: of those responses, isn't it like a nervous laugh or

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Speaker 2: you know.

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Speaker 1: It's a way of dealing dealing with it. I want

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Speaker 1: you talked. You said to me that you mentioned in

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Speaker 1: part one that you saw eleven people die in the prison,

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Speaker 1: and there's one that you wrote about in detail, and

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Speaker 1: I just want to read that out and then ask

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Speaker 1: you some questions, questions about that, and you're describing this

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Speaker 1: particular death of an inmate. They handcuffed this tie guide

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Speaker 1: to the bars at the back of the cell or

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Speaker 1: because he was sick and needed to keep using the bathroom.

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Speaker 1: They then took it in turns, kicking the absolute shit

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Speaker 1: out of him. This must have lasted at least an

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Speaker 1: hour when they finally stopped and removed the handcuffs. This

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Speaker 1: guy was so scared to move, the just pissed and

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Speaker 1: shit himself in the back corner. The next morning he

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Speaker 1: had died. So we're talking here about witnessing someone being.

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Speaker 2: Beaten to death.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, do you know why he was being beaten.

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Speaker 2: Because he was using the bathroom too much, because he

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Speaker 2: had gastro right and couldn't get any help. And that's

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Speaker 2: why I was in the hospital. So that that's in

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Speaker 2: the hospital now.

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Speaker 1: And that was a good part. That's where you paid

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Speaker 1: extra together.

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Speaker 2: I paid one thousand US to get into the hospital.

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Speaker 2: So the room would only be full of thirty people. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: like there was only six people in the room all

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Speaker 2: the time, But then patients would come in and out right,

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Speaker 2: and so he'd come in because he'd had bad gastro

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Speaker 2: and just kept having to keep using the toilet. But

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Speaker 2: two of the guys worked at the hospital, so they

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Speaker 2: had our pair of handcuffs in the cell for that purpose.

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Speaker 1: What was going through your mind watching this?

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Speaker 2: Want? I wanted again, I wanted to stop it. I

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Speaker 2: couldn't believe what I was watching. It's very again, very confronting,

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Speaker 2: and you just you feel bad because the way that

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Speaker 2: someone would treat another human being, it's just it's beyond me,

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Speaker 2: you know, like I can't, I can't. I just I

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Speaker 2: just remember that him screaming as well, stop, you know,

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Speaker 2: and and they just taking turns and laughing like it

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Speaker 2: was some kind of evil game. You know. The more

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Speaker 2: he pleted, the more they builded him and kicked him.

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Speaker 2: I think it lasted longer than an hour, to be honest,

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Speaker 2: you know. And then they'd look at one another and go, oh,

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Speaker 2: look what I can do next, and kick him in

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Speaker 2: the ribs, and you know, another guy just slap him

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Speaker 2: across the face at one and like to make him flinch,

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Speaker 2: and you know they had Yeah, it was it was

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Speaker 2: pretty full on. And you know the next day the

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Speaker 2: guy's dead in the morning.

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Speaker 1: And just laughing at while they're doing it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's it's a crazy, crazy place to be.

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Speaker 2: I just so many things, so many things I saw

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Speaker 2: that people should never see. Really, I could go on

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Speaker 2: and on. I mean, seriously, I know, and I've just did.

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Speaker 1: There's so many things you can pull out, pull out

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Speaker 1: of what happened to you in prison. When you reach

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Speaker 1: it reached out to me. You wanted to tell the story.

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Speaker 1: You want people to understand the dangers and all that,

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Speaker 1: and yeah, let's not be naive when we think there's

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Speaker 1: there's justice and humanity in the world. Some places you

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Speaker 1: find yourself that's so far from it, are you? And

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Speaker 1: I checked with you before I raised this, but you

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Speaker 1: also detailed the account when you were gang raped one

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Speaker 1: of the times in the prison. I just get if

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Speaker 1: it's okay with you, and I'm going to read out

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Speaker 1: what you said there and then I'll let you comment

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Speaker 1: if you need to comment or feel feel to comment.

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Speaker 1: But I'm also mindful that since been released from prison

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Speaker 1: and coming back to Australia, that you're getting treatment for

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Speaker 1: the traumas and the things that you happen. So if

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Speaker 1: any point in time you want me to stop or

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Speaker 1: we change the subject, feel free. I was tipping some

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Speaker 1: water from the bucket over my head when five guys

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Speaker 1: stormed in. I tried my best fighting them off, hitting

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Speaker 1: one Cambodian in the throat and smashing another one's head

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Speaker 1: against the concrete wall, but there was too many of them.

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Speaker 1: Eventually they pinned me down to the filthy, wet floor,

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Speaker 1: two guys holding my hands and two guys holding my

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Speaker 1: feet while the fifth Cambadium raped me. My face was

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Speaker 1: pushed into the concrete. I was helpless to do anything.

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Speaker 1: Words can't describe what I was thinking. In the end,

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Speaker 1: I just tried to block everything out of my mind.

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Speaker 1: Nobody came to help me. I'll never forget how it

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Speaker 1: made me feel, and just one other aspect. And that

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Speaker 1: was the first of four times I was raped in prison.

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Speaker 1: Sitting here now writing this, I feel a sense of numbness.

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Speaker 1: Those men have taken something from me that can never

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Speaker 1: be returned. I just remember leaving the shower with my

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Speaker 1: backside bleeding, putting on my pants, and sitting on the

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Speaker 1: cell of the floor staring at the ground in shame.

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Speaker 1: Mm hm, I yeah, I don't know what to say

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Speaker 1: that what? What's how?

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Speaker 2: How? Literally? How I wrote that down is how pretty

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Speaker 2: much happened. Now I felt, you know, you feel guilty.

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Speaker 2: I never asked for that, and the shame and that

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Speaker 2: just that I could still feel the wetness on my

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Speaker 2: face the bathroom floor, and still smell the smells of

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Speaker 2: the sewerage, and just having to pick myself up like

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Speaker 2: some used up piece of meat, put my pants on

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Speaker 2: and sit back in a corner, and life goes on.

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Speaker 2: You know, they just keep doing what they're doing. Nothing

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Speaker 2: gets said, nothing gets you get the occasional look, but

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Speaker 2: there's no there's no I.

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Speaker 1: U okay, mate, there's there's.

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Speaker 2: Well it's almost like they look at you just like

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Speaker 2: I'm glad it wasn't me this time.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's what they've created in the environment like that.

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Speaker 1: It's well, when I say interesting, maybe not the right word,

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Speaker 1: but look at what humans can do to other other humans,

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Speaker 1: No wonder the world can be a fucked place at times. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: when you've got people that do that, and yeah, we've

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Speaker 1: talked about it, and you mentioned there you feel guilt

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Speaker 1: and shame. Mate, I say this to you. You've survived.

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Speaker 1: You survived, so you've got got it over them. The

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Speaker 1: low lives that do that to you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's that's why when I wrote that down,

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Speaker 2: I said, I could talk about the other ones, but

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Speaker 2: it doesn't really help me. Yeah, you know, I mean,

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Speaker 2: if you wanted to seriously talk about the other ones,

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Speaker 2: I would, but it doesn't help me. Just to know

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Speaker 2: about what you've just read out. It's pretty much the

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Speaker 2: same feelings with the others, apart from the one with

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Speaker 2: the guards, because I used to come in and just

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Speaker 2: drag people out they get drunk, come in and drag

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Speaker 2: a person out, take them to their quarters. Yeah, so

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Speaker 2: that that you know that, and that they're pretty horrific,

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Speaker 2: you know, I mean, they're all horrific, but you do

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Speaker 2: become a bit more numb to it. I'm still pretty

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Speaker 2: shook up because I haven't read this transcript back since

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Speaker 2: I wrote it, you know, pretty much. I had a

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Speaker 2: glanced over it today, but that's it. And yeah, to

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Speaker 2: hear it again just brings back all the memories, just

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Speaker 2: keep flooding back, you.

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Speaker 1: Know, powerful words and yeah, yeah, you're getting help for it.

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Speaker 1: You're saying that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was funny. The Trump sexual trauma counselor said

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Speaker 2: to me, you know, when we wrote it all out

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Speaker 2: to send off to you and hopefully to the Human

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Speaker 2: Rights Commission as well, and things like that. That when

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Speaker 2: I was in the police station leading up to going

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Speaker 2: into the prison, I was talking in first person, and

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Speaker 2: then when I get into prison, I'm talking in third person.

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Speaker 2: And I didn't. I didn't. I'm not an author, you know,

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Speaker 2: or creative writer, you know. But she picked up on

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Speaker 2: that and she said, that's a sure sign of trauma.

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Speaker 2: Trauma and how you perceive, you know, how to deal

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Speaker 2: with things like you're stepping, you're removing yourself from stuff.

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Speaker 1: And I guess that's you know, makes sense.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know. But the thing that really makes me

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Speaker 2: angry is that I never asked for any of this.

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Speaker 2: I never once, you know, like, I did nothing wrong.

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Speaker 2: Even if you've done something wrong, nothing like this should

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Speaker 2: ever happen to you. You know. It takes your dignity away.

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Speaker 2: You feel if you know, you feel, you feel so

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Speaker 2: much shame and so much guilt. Why couldn't have just

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Speaker 2: fought a bit harder? You just can't. There's five guys,

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Speaker 2: some of them can kick box, you know. They're not

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Speaker 2: all just little skinny Cambodians. There's guys in there doing

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Speaker 2: life they're never getting out, you know that they don't

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Speaker 2: care if they kill someone, because what are they going

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Speaker 2: to do, give them another twenty years on their sentence

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Speaker 2: not getting out anyways. It's one of those situations. And

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Speaker 2: there's so many of those guys in there, that's what

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Speaker 2: makes it a scary place too. And the guards aren't

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Speaker 2: do anything about it because they could kill a guard

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Speaker 2: and what's going to happen. They'll just they'll probably end

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Speaker 2: up getting killed themselves, but it doesn't matter to them,

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Speaker 2: you know. And there's so many of them in there

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Speaker 2: that are doing life.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and you can't report it to the guards. As

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Speaker 1: you said, one of the rape situations involve the guards.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think I mentioned to you too. The

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Speaker 2: lady boys they got the worst. Yeah, you know, the

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Speaker 2: ones that were taking in well, whatever they were doing,

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Speaker 2: they're getting done for prostitution ties Cambodians all that. That

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Speaker 2: would be nightly and not just once a night, five

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Speaker 2: six seven, just depend on how many guards and how

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Speaker 2: many guards were drinking. They'd gamble, they'd drink, and then

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Speaker 2: they just go around.

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Speaker 1: And just pluck prisoners out, pluck prisoners. It's disgusting, it is,

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Speaker 1: it is.

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Speaker 2: And there's so many other things, you know, like that,

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Speaker 2: I could I want to say about different things like

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Speaker 2: if you don't bring them up, I want to, I

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Speaker 2: want to get them across.

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Speaker 1: Well, there's ten thousand prisoners in there, wasn't it.

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Speaker 2: And another great point, it's built for four thousand. Four thousand,

255
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Speaker 2: that's how many is meant to be in that prison.

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Speaker 2: There's over ten thousand in there. So when I'm talking

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Speaker 2: about four hundred in a cell's it's four hundred. And

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Speaker 2: it's not a big cell. You know, people are squashed

259
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Speaker 2: up against the bars. You knows, there's one toilet or

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Speaker 2: maybe two if you're lucky. A shower where you've got

261
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Speaker 2: a bucket of green water that's got mosquito larvae and

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Speaker 2: you know, dangi fever and you're using that the shower.

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Speaker 1: It's just the threat of diseases, every.

264
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Speaker 2: Disease, COVID, all the main in every std under the sun,

265
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Speaker 2: but all the main ones, some of the ones. I

266
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Speaker 2: don't think we've even got much in Australia anymore. You know,

267
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Speaker 2: guys with what's one where you cough up the blood tuberculosis,

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Speaker 2: I think that's it. Yeah, it's very it's very contagious

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Speaker 2: and then it's like, yeah, you start coughing and then

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Speaker 2: you're coughing up blood and that's you know, and that's

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Speaker 2: very contagious. And all these other things obviously scabies and

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Speaker 2: golden staff rife through everywhere. You know, I was covered

273
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Speaker 2: in it, Yeah, absolutely covered everywhere everywhere, and bedsaws from

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Speaker 2: laying on the ground on the concrete for too long,

275
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Speaker 2: like your hips, they start getting lumps in your hips

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Speaker 2: and either side.

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Speaker 1: You know, you wrote in wrote in your transcript there

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Speaker 1: about the mattress that was up with all just the

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Speaker 1: wire and torture as in putting people electric uity people describe,

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Speaker 1: describe that what you saw there, Just to put.

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Speaker 2: It briefly, there's six or eight cells. That's the hospital basically,

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Speaker 2: and then where they do the surgeries over here and

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Speaker 2: they administer their medications, their medications down the other end

284
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Speaker 2: was this room and it had a small room, smaller

285
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Speaker 2: than this and it just had a bed. But the

286
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Speaker 2: springs of the mattress in it, all the material and

287
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Speaker 2: that all gone all gone, yeah yeah, and you know,

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Speaker 2: and there's a few bars on it. Yeah, one can't

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Speaker 2: only think you know what was going on there?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know.

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Speaker 2: And the way, and in the hospital too, you're dealing

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Speaker 2: with people that are clearly have got severe mental health

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Speaker 2: issues that should be in care, real care, that are

294
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Speaker 2: going around and you know, bashing people, but then ten

295
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Speaker 2: seconds later wouldn't even know they've done it, you know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so.

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Speaker 2: You know it's crazy.

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Speaker 1: You got stabbed? Yeah, yeah, tell us about that incident

299
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Speaker 1: and what happened.

300
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Speaker 2: Well, I had an altercation because, like I said, there's

301
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Speaker 2: all these lane ways and nooks and cranny so there's

302
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Speaker 2: not a lot of cameras. It's not like no, no,

303
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Speaker 2: of course not. They only put him in the areas

304
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Speaker 2: where the people come in and see who fund. So

305
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Speaker 2: I had an alccasion with one guy and he's as

306
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Speaker 2: he's come up and ran or not ran, as just

307
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Speaker 2: kicked me in the arm like this nearly busted my

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Speaker 2: arm his mate.

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Speaker 1: Do you mind for show you this is a so

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Speaker 1: that for those listening to this podcasting, and just showed

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Speaker 1: me the stab wound where he was stabbed in the

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Speaker 1: chest and it hit his ribs. You can't see it

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Speaker 1: obviously if you're listening to this, but if you want

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Speaker 1: to see what we're talking about, you can view it

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Speaker 1: on YouTube.

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Speaker 2: No that's what sharpened up a piece of perspects pipe.

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Speaker 2: And just as so, the other guy's kicked me. He's

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Speaker 2: come up from underneath and got me. So there's two

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Speaker 2: on me. And then I didn't really because it got

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Speaker 2: jammed in between my ribs.

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Speaker 1: Yep.

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Speaker 2: So I'm quite fortunate that he well, you know what.

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Speaker 1: I didn't get a vital organ.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it got stuck in there and then I and

325
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Speaker 2: then I just kept going and then it kind of

326
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Speaker 2: dissipated and then I pulled it out. And there's no

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Speaker 2: way I was going to the hospital. No way it was.

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Speaker 2: It was. There was no doctors at the hospital, not one.

329
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Speaker 2: It was all prisoners doing procedures.

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Speaker 1: So how did you treat yourself? Because that feeling, that womb? Yeah, significant,

331
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Speaker 1: significant word.

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Speaker 2: I just I got, you know, some some guys. You know,

333
00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:34,400
Speaker 2: there was a Belgian guys, a Filipino guy. They was saying,

334
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Speaker 2: put this stuff on it, and they had some stuff. So,

335
00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:38,800
Speaker 2: you know, the foreigners all kind of stuck together.

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Speaker 1: So there was that smidgen of humanity in there with

337
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Speaker 1: the foreigner foreigners. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well it's almost like us against them, you know,

339
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Speaker 2: And that's how it was for quite some time. You know,

340
00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:52,760
Speaker 2: and and and one of the Nigerians even said that

341
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Speaker 2: to me. He said, how he approached me after he

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Speaker 2: known I've been raped and he goes, how you traveling right?

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Speaker 2: And I said I'm not good and he goes, mate,

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Speaker 2: just remember this, it's us against them.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I think that was the first time I had the

347
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Speaker 2: first cigarette.

348
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Speaker 1: Yeah.

349
00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:11,600
Speaker 2: Yeah. And then I use them as currency because that's

350
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Speaker 2: what you do, you know, to get some food or something.

351
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Speaker 1: So what was what was your lowest point in the

352
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Speaker 1: time that you're in prison?

353
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Speaker 2: Ah? I mean, obviously the rapes, sexual assaults pretty hard

354
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Speaker 2: to deal with. You going to a pretty bad depression.

355
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Speaker 2: You don't want to talk to anyone. You get some

356
00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:34,199
Speaker 2: foreign guys, like there's a friend. I called him a

357
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Speaker 2: friend because a sign I could confide in. He'd come

358
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Speaker 2: up and go, mate, I know what's happened, and you

359
00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:43,440
Speaker 2: kind of you're trying and remove yourself from people, which

360
00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:44,800
Speaker 2: is a bad thing because then you go into a

361
00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:48,480
Speaker 2: dark place and then you start thinking, well, maybe I'll

362
00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:50,720
Speaker 2: just try and escape and they'll shoot me, you know,

363
00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:54,960
Speaker 2: or if you end up doing too if you start

364
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Speaker 2: doing some stuff that really puts there their naise out

365
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Speaker 2: of whack. They'll put you in this place. It's called

366
00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:03,600
Speaker 2: the dark Room for thirty days. It's just a dark

367
00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:06,480
Speaker 2: room with the most crazy people in there that they

368
00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:13,120
Speaker 2: you know, that aren't getting out, and they'll supply methanphetamine, whatever.

369
00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:16,080
Speaker 2: They don't care. It's like a zoo, you know, in

370
00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:19,520
Speaker 2: that room. There's no clocks, there's no nothing. Everything you

371
00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:21,880
Speaker 2: buy if you want a bottle of water, it's ten

372
00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:23,879
Speaker 2: times the price and I don't can to afford anything.

373
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Speaker 2: I know. If people look the Nigerian guy, Chicker, he

374
00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:29,320
Speaker 2: bought his way out of there. He was only in

375
00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:31,000
Speaker 2: there a couple of days, and he says, you're just

376
00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:33,359
Speaker 2: in a corner. You can't see anything, or you can

377
00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:39,359
Speaker 2: see people lighting lighters, smoking ice. It's completely black, you

378
00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:41,600
Speaker 2: know what I mean. And he said he was just

379
00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:44,920
Speaker 2: there's a guy jerking off next to him. He doesn't care,

380
00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:47,920
Speaker 2: you know, like he's going to get away from me.

381
00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:51,040
Speaker 2: But that's the least of his problems, you know.

382
00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:54,480
Speaker 1: And just when I didn't think you could surprise me

383
00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:58,840
Speaker 1: anymore now, like mate, the dark room, Yeah, I'm just

384
00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:02,480
Speaker 1: trying to picture it, all these crazy people or whatever

385
00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:05,560
Speaker 1: in there in a pitch black room and you just

386
00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:06,560
Speaker 1: frown in there.

387
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:12,760
Speaker 2: No clock's known nothing, thirty days, sixty days, ninety days,

388
00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:15,320
Speaker 2: one hundred and twenty days, there's been God, there was

389
00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:16,679
Speaker 2: guys in there months and months.

390
00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:18,680
Speaker 1: Don't keep your sanity, you don't.

391
00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:21,200
Speaker 2: That's the thing, that's what they want. That's how they

392
00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:24,080
Speaker 2: break you. You want to muck around real bad. They're

393
00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:27,680
Speaker 2: just chucking in there. You know, if you get caught

394
00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:32,880
Speaker 2: with something. It's such a corrupt place that they supply

395
00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:38,040
Speaker 2: all the drugs, the phones because people buy it off them.

396
00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:41,479
Speaker 2: Then they'll get an independent organization like the police from

397
00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:44,439
Speaker 2: the outside would come just out of the blue and

398
00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:47,479
Speaker 2: start raiding sections like oh, they're going through BLOCKAH today

399
00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:51,119
Speaker 2: and just going in there, and then they find a phone.

400
00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:54,480
Speaker 2: Who's this belonged to? It's that Chinese guy, beat the

401
00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:57,359
Speaker 2: crap out of him, give him another three years on

402
00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:01,240
Speaker 2: his sentence, and then the same guy two weeks later

403
00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:04,679
Speaker 2: selling him back that same phone or drugs or whatever

404
00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:06,960
Speaker 2: else it was. You know, moonshine. There was plenty of

405
00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:10,080
Speaker 2: everything going on in there, you know everything. Guys were

406
00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:13,119
Speaker 2: walking around with monkeys, with the real rich guys. There

407
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:16,359
Speaker 2: was a guy walking around with like a spider monkey

408
00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:20,000
Speaker 2: pet monkey, pet monkey on his on his shoulder. There

409
00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:23,280
Speaker 2: was guys who had like massive bil constrictors in tanks.

410
00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:27,800
Speaker 2: There was lots of different birds and things like that

411
00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:30,680
Speaker 2: that people were allowed to have and keep because they

412
00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:33,760
Speaker 2: paid big money. Are paying like a thousand the vip

413
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:40,359
Speaker 2: sells are paying ony twelve hundred US a month, and

414
00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:43,399
Speaker 2: they could get any luxury they wanted, you know, and

415
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:45,400
Speaker 2: the guards would go in there and drink with them,

416
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:48,560
Speaker 2: even the senior guards, you know, they would go in

417
00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:51,879
Speaker 2: and drink with them. You know, they'd have girls brought in.

418
00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:55,720
Speaker 2: They could have anything they wanted, you know. And those

419
00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:57,960
Speaker 2: guys weren't getting out. They knew it. So I was like, well,

420
00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:00,840
Speaker 2: I've got millions of dollars. I'm just gonna make the

421
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:01,280
Speaker 2: best of it.

422
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:05,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, did you have concerns when you're in there that, yeah,

423
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:08,640
Speaker 1: you've got this minor charge that you're fighting that one

424
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:11,119
Speaker 1: would hope you're not going to get years since to

425
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:14,159
Speaker 1: Did you have concerns that you'd be laded up with

426
00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:18,439
Speaker 1: another charge or defend yourself and injure someone, or end

427
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:21,480
Speaker 1: up charge and yeah, yeah, definitely for the rest of

428
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:21,880
Speaker 1: your life.

429
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:25,119
Speaker 2: Definitely. Well, my charge at one stage was three years.

430
00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:27,439
Speaker 2: Three years. That was going to be the charge for

431
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:31,399
Speaker 2: damaging your beast of property. Yeah, you know, and you

432
00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:33,679
Speaker 2: know I fell in to protect my head and my

433
00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:37,480
Speaker 2: hand hit the glass like that. But I was all

434
00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:40,240
Speaker 2: over the shop because I've been drugged.

435
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:42,920
Speaker 1: And like I sit here, I wouldn't care if you

436
00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:46,560
Speaker 1: ran up and kicked the ATM or attacked it with

437
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:47,480
Speaker 1: a baseball bat.

438
00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:49,800
Speaker 2: Funnily enough, that's what they said in court when I

439
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:52,439
Speaker 2: went to court. The first time they said to me

440
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:56,520
Speaker 2: was I tried to steal the ATM machine, right, pick

441
00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:56,840
Speaker 2: it up.

442
00:24:57,359 --> 00:24:59,520
Speaker 1: It weighs more than me. Well, you grew up around

443
00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:03,679
Speaker 1: the northern It was a spade of ATM robberies, maybe

444
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:05,440
Speaker 1: maybe missing missing the point.

445
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:07,040
Speaker 2: And then I said to them, can you show me

446
00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:09,439
Speaker 2: the footage? Then they brought up the next time. I wasn't, Oh,

447
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:11,720
Speaker 2: you're trying to attack it with an iron bar? Bring it?

448
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:14,120
Speaker 2: Can you just remind me? Bring up the footage? Then

449
00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:17,480
Speaker 2: you what was something else? Oh? Look, Then they brought

450
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:20,439
Speaker 2: out the photos. These were the best, the photos of

451
00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:22,560
Speaker 2: me with my hands on the buttons and stuff. And

452
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:25,119
Speaker 2: I was like, yeah, that's because I'm trying to withdraw money,

453
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:26,120
Speaker 2: you know.

454
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:27,840
Speaker 1: Like you've got to you've got to touch.

455
00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:30,320
Speaker 2: It, ye, or you got to touch the buttons as well.

456
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:32,800
Speaker 1: Did you get a did you get a sense? It

457
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:34,840
Speaker 1: was just what can we extore.

458
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:38,280
Speaker 2: Out of you? They called the land of wonder? Yeah,

459
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:40,720
Speaker 2: it should be called the land of extortion. Yeah, because

460
00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:44,520
Speaker 2: that's what they do, you know, from the top down. Now,

461
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:46,120
Speaker 2: I'm not mucking around when I say that.

462
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:51,520
Speaker 1: That's yeah, like the fact that they had it released

463
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:55,160
Speaker 1: in the paper straight away as this Peneus crime, the

464
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:57,560
Speaker 1: Peneus crime that you've committed, and you still won the

465
00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:00,600
Speaker 1: round as a tourist, and don't change fly or make

466
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:01,320
Speaker 1: any effort to.

467
00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:06,440
Speaker 2: You know, if I'd have done something bad, the first

468
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:08,119
Speaker 2: thing you'd be doing is getting to the border of

469
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:11,560
Speaker 2: Thailand and getting across. Yeah, you know all that n

470
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:16,120
Speaker 2: up all ouse. You know, you wouldn't be hanging around

471
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:17,200
Speaker 2: checking out the sites.

472
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:21,840
Speaker 1: It doesn't doesn't quite quite add up. Now does the

473
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:26,040
Speaker 1: money that the money that your ex partner was sending

474
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:29,800
Speaker 1: to you, you've credited that we've saving your life. What

475
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:32,159
Speaker 1: sort of figures are we talking about? How much this

476
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:36,360
Speaker 1: whole experience earns. Excellent adventure in Cambaiti it.

477
00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:39,560
Speaker 2: Costs one hundred and twenty thousand US. Yeah, as my

478
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:42,720
Speaker 2: pretty much all my mum's inheritance that she'd left when

479
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:43,760
Speaker 2: she passed, right.

480
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:44,480
Speaker 1: Yeah.

481
00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:47,000
Speaker 2: And there's a shame, the shame and guilt attached to

482
00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:52,280
Speaker 2: that too. Yeah, you know, but my sister told me

483
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:55,400
Speaker 2: one thing that was important. When I was feeling really

484
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:57,760
Speaker 2: low about that, she said, look, if mum was still alive,

485
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:00,360
Speaker 2: she would have paid that to get you out, you know.

486
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:05,640
Speaker 2: But it was and the way they did it as well,

487
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:12,479
Speaker 2: you know, the you're bribing everybody, you know, it's not

488
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:13,400
Speaker 2: just one person.

489
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:16,320
Speaker 1: Did I read it right? At one point in time,

490
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:19,960
Speaker 1: when you could pay this much money and you'll be released,

491
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 1: This as the advice you're getting. But if you can't

492
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:25,120
Speaker 1: pay that much money, you'll get charge with bribing a.

493
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:29,480
Speaker 2: No, No, it was. What it was was that they

494
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:34,400
Speaker 2: sent a figure, their lawyers send a figure, save eight thousand.

495
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 2: I think it was the first time to fix a

496
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:38,919
Speaker 2: piece of glass that might cost one hundred dollars to

497
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:43,040
Speaker 2: fix eight thousand. So if we send eight thousand straight away,

498
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:46,600
Speaker 2: they'd send it back when we want fifteen, send fifteen,

499
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:49,439
Speaker 2: we want twenty five, and so on just kept on

500
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:52,800
Speaker 2: going up. Yeah, So my initial charge would have I

501
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:55,399
Speaker 2: would have been in there for three years. And then

502
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:57,960
Speaker 2: I said to my lawyer, I said, we're not a

503
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:00,959
Speaker 2: wealthy family. We kind of just keep for chucking money,

504
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:05,320
Speaker 2: thrying money around. We're not rich. You know, we did

505
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:07,440
Speaker 2: have extra money, but we weren't trying to tell her

506
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:12,080
Speaker 2: that at this stage. And that that's another thing where

507
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:15,960
Speaker 2: you you just you feel all your you just get

508
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:19,760
Speaker 2: depleted again. It's you know, like it's like you're just

509
00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:22,080
Speaker 2: trying to you think you make an inroads and they

510
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:25,520
Speaker 2: knock your back down. Lots of prisoners inside there said

511
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:29,879
Speaker 2: you never leave Cambodia. You never ever leave Cambodia. And

512
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:32,760
Speaker 2: that's so true. I didn't believe it until I actually

513
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:35,440
Speaker 2: got out. How much harder it was just to get

514
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:36,119
Speaker 2: out of the country.

515
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:38,360
Speaker 1: Once I got there, they keep you.

516
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, and then you know you're not just bribing judges,

517
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:46,640
Speaker 2: your bribe and guards, you drive bribe and everyone, you know,

518
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:51,520
Speaker 2: just to you know, my lawyer was ringing my ex

519
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:53,960
Speaker 2: partner saying we're going to need extra money for this,

520
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:56,320
Speaker 2: and she was handing it over thinking that I was

521
00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 2: verifying it because we couldn't always communicate. Yeah, and then

522
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:05,080
Speaker 2: you know, the embassy would charge me money when they

523
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:08,360
Speaker 2: brought money in for me. But the thing is, you say,

524
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:11,240
Speaker 2: if you've got two hundred dollars US, the first couple

525
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 2: of times you come in that gate, they'd patch you

526
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:14,320
Speaker 2: down and just take it.

527
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:17,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I wondered that when you get money,

528
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:21,360
Speaker 1: how you hang on to it? Where is it? Where's

529
00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:24,800
Speaker 1: the captain? You had said that when you got food

530
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:27,720
Speaker 1: or water or that quite often you just drink it

531
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 1: all either all because it was going to get taken

532
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:31,320
Speaker 1: off you anyway.

533
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:33,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, if you went back to the captain and

534
00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 2: the captain goes, why and you buy the water off

535
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:38,080
Speaker 2: me or cigarettes or food food here was a bit

536
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:43,480
Speaker 2: easy going on with because they would kind of understand

537
00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:44,680
Speaker 2: that we couldn't eat their food.

538
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:47,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, kinder mind.

539
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:49,000
Speaker 2: You they're farm and catfish and give them your maggot

540
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:53,120
Speaker 2: ridden rice, you know, and grown a few vegetables that

541
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 2: were sprayed with toxins, you know, and it was growing

542
00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:01,360
Speaker 2: on top of the sewer. Yeah. And that's another thing

543
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 2: that the smell of the sewer was there the whole time.

544
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:07,080
Speaker 2: Like it's the rainy season for example, that the place

545
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 2: just floods, you know, snakes everywhere place, floods, generators go out,

546
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:17,400
Speaker 2: the fans stopped working, there's no light, don't you think

547
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:20,480
Speaker 2: it starts kicking off? Then prisoners just fighting each other

548
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:25,560
Speaker 2: in the dark. No one's going to know what's going on. Yeah,

549
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 2: it's crazy. Yeah, yeah, like the king Cobras women in.

550
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:35,960
Speaker 1: Someone called it killed it like.

551
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:39,800
Speaker 2: A whip, like picked it like as a farmer, and

552
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:42,000
Speaker 2: then they led the Cambodian go yeah, just picked up

553
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:44,240
Speaker 2: on the towel and crack and then it was eating

554
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 2: that the next day. But they ate anything anything, they

555
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 2: get their hands on, dogs, everything.

556
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:53,360
Speaker 1: Even when the negotiations got to the point like I'm

557
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:55,960
Speaker 1: not even going to break down the court matter, like

558
00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:59,120
Speaker 1: and I've got all these emails here and I bore

559
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:01,280
Speaker 1: them in. I was going to dissect some of them.

560
00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 1: But their emails, communications and text messages and different things

561
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:11,480
Speaker 1: between yourself, your partner, and the consular admin and the embassy.

562
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 1: What comes across in all of these is how desperate

563
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:20,040
Speaker 1: the situation was. It was just frustration, and frustration is

564
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 1: felt in every page. And then yeah, it's all tied

565
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:26,320
Speaker 1: it up. Ian's doing fine. We're working to get him out.

566
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:28,800
Speaker 1: But it didn't seem to be any progress whatsoever, And

567
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:31,840
Speaker 1: there was nothing that was Okay, you've got to get

568
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:34,520
Speaker 1: to this if you plead guilty, or this is going

569
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:37,200
Speaker 1: to happen. It was always ambiguous what was going to happen,

570
00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:38,200
Speaker 1: what the next thing was.

571
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 2: We're bound by Cambodian law.

572
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:44,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you made the point too that when embassy

573
00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:48,200
Speaker 1: officials or a consular officer came out, there was always

574
00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:52,560
Speaker 1: a Cambodian with them the whole time, just making sure

575
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:55,920
Speaker 1: that you're You never felt safe that you could tell

576
00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:59,480
Speaker 1: someone from the Australian console, this is what the ship

577
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:02,280
Speaker 1: that's going down, because you've got someone there listening that.

578
00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:07,800
Speaker 2: And also that she was watching her too, because then

579
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:11,120
Speaker 2: she would because they go away and have conversations because

580
00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:14,120
Speaker 2: they don't want the prison to look bad, so they

581
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:18,200
Speaker 2: lose funding. That funding goes to the trickles down from

582
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 2: the top CEO of the you know, the prison all

583
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 2: the way down or the general or what you want

584
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:24,640
Speaker 2: call him, because that's how they run it like a

585
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 2: like an army.

586
00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:32,040
Speaker 1: When no, I I think I'm not if. I often

587
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:37,040
Speaker 1: wondered what cloud in Australian citizen has been arrested abroad,

588
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:39,720
Speaker 1: But it just shows how limited it is depending on

589
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:41,600
Speaker 1: where you've you've been apprehended.

590
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:50,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's you know, getting out the worst. One of

591
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:54,240
Speaker 2: the worst parts was when you when you get to

592
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:57,600
Speaker 2: your last month, you have to go and take your

593
00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:01,680
Speaker 2: photos for inter pola. So they take photos of your tattoos,

594
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 2: they take your face obviously, and what you look like.

595
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:07,239
Speaker 2: You got your name, you got your board up. But

596
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:10,640
Speaker 2: that sends a signal to every other prisoner that you're

597
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:15,400
Speaker 2: getting out, yeah, within a month. And if someone's in

598
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:17,560
Speaker 2: there for twenty five years to life, they just want

599
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:20,120
Speaker 2: to cause trouble for you because they want, you know,

600
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:24,400
Speaker 2: to see you get more time. It's almost like a

601
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:27,200
Speaker 2: jealousy thing too. If I can't get out, he.

602
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:29,320
Speaker 1: Should should he's better than us.

603
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I do avoid people like the plague for

604
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:33,800
Speaker 2: that last month, which I managed to do. But I

605
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:37,280
Speaker 2: think it was Chicker, the big Nigerian guy helping me there.

606
00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:40,040
Speaker 1: He was putting the word or keeping an eye out.

607
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:42,440
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, he was really a good, good fella.

608
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:47,680
Speaker 1: But that must be so hard. Like here it is freedom,

609
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:50,560
Speaker 1: it's dangled in front of you, but knowing that you're

610
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:52,320
Speaker 1: at the higher risk at that point in time.

611
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it was tough, very tough. After everything that

612
00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:00,560
Speaker 2: was going on, guy's still tried to fight and stuff.

613
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:04,640
Speaker 2: I just I don't know, we got difused pretty quickly.

614
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:07,440
Speaker 1: You tried to step away from it.

615
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:11,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well there's occasions where you had to just kind

616
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 2: of hurt something pretty quickly. Doo. Yeah, you know, honestly

617
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:19,160
Speaker 2: make it so that no one's you know, he just

618
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:20,879
Speaker 2: fell over, yeah, or something like that.

619
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:26,279
Speaker 1: Unbelievable. When did you actually find out that you got

620
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:28,480
Speaker 1: a date and that you were being released from prison?

621
00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:33,080
Speaker 2: Well, that's an interesting story in itself. They used to

622
00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:35,759
Speaker 2: the guards used to tell me I was getting out tomorrow,

623
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:39,040
Speaker 2: paperwork's coming tomorrow, just to play with it, play with

624
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:41,440
Speaker 2: my emotions. And that went on for a few weeks,

625
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:45,040
Speaker 2: and then it finally came. I can't remember what time was,

626
00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:50,360
Speaker 2: early afternoon. And then they all, as I wrote in

627
00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 2: the transcripts, they all stood there with their hands out

628
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:57,839
Speaker 2: like as if I wanted money, as if that they'd

629
00:34:57,840 --> 00:34:59,920
Speaker 2: done me a favor, thanks.

630
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:03,279
Speaker 1: For thanks for looking after you that.

631
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:03,920
Speaker 2: Yeah.

632
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:04,719
Speaker 1: Yeah.

633
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:07,360
Speaker 2: And then on the way out, every guard on the

634
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:14,600
Speaker 2: way out as well. So yeah, and then and then

635
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:17,919
Speaker 2: I find out, you know, I was told told time

636
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:20,759
Speaker 2: and time again. Once you get out of prison, you're

637
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:26,600
Speaker 2: going home. Yeah, and then I find out that I've

638
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:31,480
Speaker 2: got to spend another three months there. Explain that, well,

639
00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:34,279
Speaker 2: I was told by the Australian embassy over in Cambodia.

640
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:38,160
Speaker 2: But once I got out, i'd be released. I received

641
00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:41,719
Speaker 2: my passport back and my luggage back to the point

642
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 2: where I actually went to the courthouse and paid two

643
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:49,279
Speaker 2: hundred dollars US to get that in process. And then

644
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:53,440
Speaker 2: my lawyer was even too worried to come and see me.

645
00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:58,080
Speaker 2: She rang me and said, oh, you know, I said, well,

646
00:35:58,200 --> 00:35:59,719
Speaker 2: what's happening with the courts? When do we get my

647
00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:01,880
Speaker 2: past back? I want to go. I've got my family

648
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:04,120
Speaker 2: to go and see. I've got my boy to go

649
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:08,080
Speaker 2: and see. You know, when I'm going home. You know,

650
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:10,799
Speaker 2: there's a couple of days, a couple of days, and

651
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:12,640
Speaker 2: just kept on going like that. So what's going on?

652
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 2: And she goes buy law Cambodian law. They've got three

653
00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:19,640
Speaker 2: months to the right of the right of an appeal.

654
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:24,040
Speaker 2: So I roped all these people work. How can you

655
00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:25,880
Speaker 2: appeal that? You know?

656
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:30,080
Speaker 1: And then because so you had the remaining Cambadia for

657
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:34,200
Speaker 1: three months after being released from prison because they might

658
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:36,600
Speaker 1: or might not appeal lodging the pill.

659
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:40,120
Speaker 2: And they still have my passport and my all my

660
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:42,759
Speaker 2: luggage at court, so I'm still walking around and then

661
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:44,719
Speaker 2: pretty much the same clause as I had on when

662
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:46,799
Speaker 2: I left prison, which is filthy.

663
00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:49,120
Speaker 1: And I would imagine if you, if you did anything wrong,

664
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:50,400
Speaker 1: you would have been straight.

665
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:53,200
Speaker 2: Straight in prison. That was the scary thing. But I

666
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:56,040
Speaker 2: went straight out of it because I was still at

667
00:36:56,040 --> 00:37:01,319
Speaker 2: that stage well at that STAF. I just moved into

668
00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:06,520
Speaker 2: the apartment straight across the road from the Strain Embassy.

669
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:09,680
Speaker 2: So I've run down there and gone knocked in there

670
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:13,560
Speaker 2: and said, what's this about? You told me I was

671
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:17,560
Speaker 2: going home. They knew the law, they knew that there

672
00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:19,440
Speaker 2: was three months I had to stay longer, but they

673
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:22,759
Speaker 2: told me differently. Otherwise why would they do that? I

674
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:25,960
Speaker 2: don't know, but you know, that's something that I'd like

675
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:30,840
Speaker 2: to discuss further with the right people, because them saying

676
00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:33,640
Speaker 2: that to me, you know, and then saying again I

677
00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:36,600
Speaker 2: were bound by Cambodian law. The only thing they ever

678
00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:39,120
Speaker 2: did for me was mere stat deck, which they are

679
00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:42,040
Speaker 2: very they weren't very keen on doing that. I asked

680
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:44,319
Speaker 2: them for other things to say, No, we can't do that,

681
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:48,080
Speaker 2: you know, ask them to write a letter to the

682
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:49,959
Speaker 2: courts to get more stuff ret leased. Oh, we can't

683
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:55,480
Speaker 2: do that. It's the courts, it's Cambodian law, you know.

684
00:37:55,719 --> 00:38:00,120
Speaker 2: And I was so paranoid at that stage that just

685
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:01,759
Speaker 2: going to get a knock any time, you know, I

686
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:04,640
Speaker 2: didn't want to go outside, but then I felt unsafe inside.

687
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:07,600
Speaker 2: And then you'd see police officers, you hear sirens, you'd

688
00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:10,440
Speaker 2: hear bangings, you know, you hear a banging door, and

689
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:14,240
Speaker 2: you can just remind you of a jail door closing,

690
00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:17,440
Speaker 2: you know, the closing. Yeah, triggers, heaps of triggers.

691
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:20,919
Speaker 1: How did you eventually get your passport back?

692
00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 2: We finally, the lawyer finally got it back.

693
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:27,080
Speaker 1: And then.

694
00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:34,640
Speaker 2: Pretty much after that was when I laughed, because you're thinking, Okay,

695
00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:38,680
Speaker 2: I've got my passport and got my luggage. By this stage,

696
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:41,719
Speaker 2: I'd moved out of that apartment. So we get to

697
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:48,640
Speaker 2: immigration and I've got my passport, I've got my luggage.

698
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:52,360
Speaker 2: I go into immigration and he looks at the paperwork

699
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:56,560
Speaker 2: and he says, you've overstayed your visa by X amount

700
00:38:56,560 --> 00:39:00,719
Speaker 2: of months. I said, I understand that I'm I've been

701
00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:04,880
Speaker 2: in jail. He's the paperwork for them, you know. And

702
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:10,319
Speaker 2: he goes and then there's an extra three months your law, Cambodian.

703
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:14,120
Speaker 1: Law, you know where you I wasn't allowed to love, Yeah.

704
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:19,239
Speaker 2: I wasn't allowed to leave. And then he just he

705
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:23,200
Speaker 2: sits down and he's talking to her, the solicitor and

706
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:27,640
Speaker 2: lawyer talking to her. They've come up with this agreement

707
00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:30,000
Speaker 2: that I should be paying. I think it was either

708
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:33,719
Speaker 2: fifteen or twenty US dollars for every day i'd overstayed

709
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:37,800
Speaker 2: my versa. So that quiet, and then he goes look forget,

710
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:40,319
Speaker 2: and they're talking nothing. I can't understand what they're saying.

711
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:44,440
Speaker 2: And then he goes, look, how about we square this

712
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:49,920
Speaker 2: up five thousand US. I just looked at him and

713
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:53,120
Speaker 2: I said, mate, I don't have any money. Yeah, and

714
00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:57,120
Speaker 2: then he kind of he kind of understood a little

715
00:39:57,120 --> 00:40:01,759
Speaker 2: bit and the body language, and then they've started going again,

716
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:03,880
Speaker 2: and then he's gone down to twenty five hundred, and

717
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:06,080
Speaker 2: I said, listen, I told you I don't have any money.

718
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:10,680
Speaker 2: And then he started getting angry and he says, well,

719
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:14,680
Speaker 2: I want receipts. You show me where you spend all

720
00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:17,600
Speaker 2: this money I said, well, you know, I just started

721
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:23,080
Speaker 2: naming names, you know who didn't get a bribe. Basically

722
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:26,040
Speaker 2: it was there. It was you know, everyone got a bribe,

723
00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:30,719
Speaker 2: you know. So and then he just couldn't handle any

724
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:34,120
Speaker 2: more of it and he just get out, get out.

725
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:38,239
Speaker 2: So and I think that was the last time I

726
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:40,480
Speaker 2: saw my solicitor too. I'm pretty sure that was the

727
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:43,759
Speaker 2: last communication I had with her ever. But I'm still

728
00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:49,040
Speaker 2: stuck in Cambodia. Like I said, Cambodia is it keeps

729
00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:52,120
Speaker 2: you there? You can't get out, you know, it traps

730
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:56,920
Speaker 2: you there. So then the next time I'm speaking to

731
00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:00,799
Speaker 2: the embassy again, saying listen, deport me, deport me. I

732
00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:03,960
Speaker 2: want out. They're going, well, this is before I'd got

733
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:06,319
Speaker 2: my passport back. They were saying, we can't deport you.

734
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:08,480
Speaker 2: We know where your passport is. It's in the courts.

735
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:11,120
Speaker 2: I'm saying, We'll just get me a new passport. Can't

736
00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:14,480
Speaker 2: you just do that? Can't I just sneak over the border?

737
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:16,759
Speaker 2: Can't I do any of this stuff? They said, we

738
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:19,400
Speaker 2: don't advise it. Have you get caught, You're going back

739
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:22,040
Speaker 2: to jail. And I'm glad I didn't. Yeah, but in

740
00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:24,160
Speaker 2: the same taken when I heard that I had to

741
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:26,560
Speaker 2: stay another three months. That was one of the times

742
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:31,040
Speaker 2: that nearly broke me and I nearly took my own life. Yeah,

743
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:34,400
Speaker 2: I was looking for places to jump. I found myself

744
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:39,000
Speaker 2: in a state where I was checking door handles of

745
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:41,239
Speaker 2: the top floor of the apartment building to see if

746
00:41:41,239 --> 00:41:43,600
Speaker 2: I'll get on the rooftop. Yeah.

747
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:46,600
Speaker 1: And you think that the culmination of it, you just

748
00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:47,320
Speaker 1: had nothing.

749
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:50,440
Speaker 2: Left, nothing left in the tank, nothing left mentally. You

750
00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:51,440
Speaker 2: know I was done.

751
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:53,239
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, you've broken.

752
00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:55,320
Speaker 2: Broken, but very much so broken.

753
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:55,600
Speaker 1: Man.

754
00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:01,520
Speaker 2: I've sat in front of my trauma counselor and broken

755
00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:04,600
Speaker 2: down many times, and that's one of the terms of used.

756
00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:06,920
Speaker 2: I just feel like a broken person. I feel like

757
00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:12,719
Speaker 2: sometimes I feel like I it would be better if

758
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:16,080
Speaker 2: I wasn't around, you know, because I just I don't

759
00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:18,160
Speaker 2: know what I can give. I know I've got to offer.

760
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:22,240
Speaker 2: She reminds me, I've got a lot to give an offer,

761
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:23,240
Speaker 2: and it keeps me going.

762
00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:27,560
Speaker 1: And then you know, you're getting advice from experts, So

763
00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:30,200
Speaker 1: take what I say with a grain of salt. But

764
00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:34,279
Speaker 1: there's total respect there too. What you've got through a

765
00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:36,279
Speaker 1: lot of people wouldn't have got through and you talk

766
00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:40,879
Speaker 1: about shame and disappointment of all these different things. Mate,

767
00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:44,000
Speaker 1: you survived something that I reckon ninety percent of people

768
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:44,720
Speaker 1: wouldn't survive.

769
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:48,200
Speaker 2: Well, it blows my mind. I lost my mum. Yeah,

770
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:51,080
Speaker 2: my relationship broke down and then I end up in

771
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:51,760
Speaker 2: that position.

772
00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:52,360
Speaker 1: Yeah.

773
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:55,680
Speaker 2: One of those three can knock people around pretty baily,

774
00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:57,960
Speaker 2: and I got all three of them. But my mum

775
00:42:58,080 --> 00:42:58,840
Speaker 2: died in front of me.

776
00:42:59,480 --> 00:42:59,719
Speaker 1: Yeah.

777
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:03,440
Speaker 2: I was doing CPR and my mum with the mobile

778
00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:06,520
Speaker 2: phone with a loud speaker on with the lady counting

779
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:11,239
Speaker 2: in to do the compressions until the ambulance drivers got there.

780
00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:14,080
Speaker 2: You know this, This, this is how it unfolded. There

781
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:18,360
Speaker 2: was that, and the relationship came to breaking down, and

782
00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:20,040
Speaker 2: then I went on this holiday and ended up in

783
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:22,239
Speaker 2: a campbadi in prison and not in the space of

784
00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:22,920
Speaker 2: a long time.

785
00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:26,680
Speaker 1: Okay, so you're dealing with dealing with so much.

786
00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:30,160
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I don't. I don't know how I've done it.

787
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:34,359
Speaker 1: But again, you're doing it one step at the time. Yeah,

788
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:36,240
Speaker 1: keep moving forward.

789
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:38,720
Speaker 2: I mean I had beatings too where I couldn't count

790
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:42,840
Speaker 2: and come my guard. Because you're doing prison counts, you

791
00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:46,160
Speaker 2: come up with a big set of old keys, you know,

792
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:47,160
Speaker 2: and just smash it in.

793
00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:48,439
Speaker 1: The back of the head.

794
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:53,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can't even remember. I try to forget. Yeah

795
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:56,400
Speaker 2: I used to be able to count to ten, but yeah,

796
00:43:57,320 --> 00:44:00,399
Speaker 2: you just do that, you know, things like that at all.

797
00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:06,400
Speaker 2: But yeah, getting back on. So I then went to

798
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:09,880
Speaker 2: the embassy again and said, listen, this is what's going on.

799
00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:13,520
Speaker 2: They're trying to this is wrong. You told me three

800
00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:15,480
Speaker 2: more months I had to stay here. I did the

801
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:17,279
Speaker 2: three months, and now they're trying to tell me that

802
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:20,920
Speaker 2: I've got to pay, you know, because I've overstayed my visa.

803
00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:24,399
Speaker 2: This is wrong. What are you going to do about it?

804
00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:28,000
Speaker 2: And it got to the point where I had to

805
00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:32,440
Speaker 2: physically go down there myself, go into that office and say, listen,

806
00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:36,160
Speaker 2: there are no receipts. I want to be deported. I

807
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:39,799
Speaker 2: wanted to be deported now. And I just I was

808
00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:43,400
Speaker 2: at that point where I didn't care what happened anymore.

809
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:46,120
Speaker 1: You get to a point where, yeah.

810
00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:48,440
Speaker 2: Reckless, abandon if you want to call it, where you're

811
00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:51,040
Speaker 2: screaming at the top of your lungs. People are in

812
00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:53,880
Speaker 2: there just going what's going on here? I want to

813
00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:56,560
Speaker 2: be fucking deported. I want to be deported right now,

814
00:44:56,840 --> 00:45:00,439
Speaker 2: because the immigration office is literally just across a road

815
00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:05,880
Speaker 2: from the international airport. Two guys come in with guns right,

816
00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:10,040
Speaker 2: grab me, pulled me out, which was probably a good thing.

817
00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:14,360
Speaker 2: Pull me out. Say down there, it's the police station.

818
00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:16,880
Speaker 2: You go down there and you tell them what you're saying, okay,

819
00:45:17,239 --> 00:45:19,759
Speaker 2: because there they look after the people who get who

820
00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:22,239
Speaker 2: are getting deported, and they've got to stay in that

821
00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:24,880
Speaker 2: cell for a month. So I get down there or

822
00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:27,400
Speaker 2: fight up and then something clicks in me and I'm like,

823
00:45:27,640 --> 00:45:29,879
Speaker 2: I just got to remain calm. Now. I got out

824
00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:31,520
Speaker 2: of that situation when I didn't think I was.

825
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:34,040
Speaker 1: It sounds like you're very lucky, lucky.

826
00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:37,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, very lucky. That guy could have just gone right,

827
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:41,400
Speaker 2: police take him. But he sent me to a police station.

828
00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:45,319
Speaker 2: But it's also to do with immigration and stuff as well.

829
00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:48,960
Speaker 2: So anyway, I've gone down and seen him. I've told him, look,

830
00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:51,080
Speaker 2: I've showed him the paper I had all the paperwork

831
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:54,279
Speaker 2: there as well. That's something I couldn't understand. So he

832
00:45:54,719 --> 00:45:57,640
Speaker 2: and he could speak fairly decent English, this one guy, right,

833
00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:02,760
Speaker 2: But I was upset. I was physically shaking. I was crying,

834
00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:08,040
Speaker 2: and he's looking at me, and like, when you're that emotional,

835
00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:11,120
Speaker 2: he'd start saying stuff to me, and I'd start cutting

836
00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:13,400
Speaker 2: him off, and he'd say, listen, do you want me

837
00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:16,640
Speaker 2: to help you or not? You know, you want me

838
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:19,200
Speaker 2: to help you or not, he said, because usually i'd

839
00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:20,759
Speaker 2: put you in that seal. You be in that seal

840
00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:24,160
Speaker 2: for a month before you get deported. And that's the

841
00:46:24,239 --> 00:46:27,799
Speaker 2: last thing I needed. So anyways, and then he's got

842
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:30,880
Speaker 2: my passport, which I was shitting myself about because the

843
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:33,640
Speaker 2: last time someone had my passport I was ended up

844
00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:36,680
Speaker 2: back I was in prison, right, they didn't give it back.

845
00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:40,600
Speaker 2: He's got that. He's put me up against the wall

846
00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:44,200
Speaker 2: with a sign, you know, with the you know, I

847
00:46:44,239 --> 00:46:48,359
Speaker 2: don't even know what it. Yeah, like I was back

848
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:51,600
Speaker 2: at the start in the airport, you know, with all

849
00:46:51,640 --> 00:46:54,640
Speaker 2: the pictures of all the deals and stuff on stuck

850
00:46:54,680 --> 00:46:56,040
Speaker 2: up the back, making me look like I was a

851
00:46:56,080 --> 00:46:57,080
Speaker 2: drug dealer or something.

852
00:46:57,120 --> 00:46:59,359
Speaker 1: You know that with a freak. Yeah, it did.

853
00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:03,520
Speaker 2: But when I wrote about it, I said I had

854
00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:08,680
Speaker 2: to trust him, even though every part of me said don't.

855
00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:12,840
Speaker 2: I just he had literally he had my life in

856
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:16,560
Speaker 2: his hands. At that stage. I was so powerless, so

857
00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:22,480
Speaker 2: so powerless that if he'd taken it one direction, then

858
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:25,200
Speaker 2: he could have said, oh, yeah, he's caught a scene

859
00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:28,000
Speaker 2: down there. Give him another six months or a year

860
00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:32,440
Speaker 2: or whatever, sort him out, you know. But then there

861
00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:34,440
Speaker 2: was all these other guys, and they're all asking me

862
00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:37,800
Speaker 2: questions where you're from, what you're doing, why you're in prison.

863
00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:40,880
Speaker 2: You know, some of them could talk a bit of English.

864
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:44,279
Speaker 2: I guess it goes with immigration, you know, they must

865
00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:46,600
Speaker 2: have to know a little bit more English to understand,

866
00:47:46,640 --> 00:47:49,479
Speaker 2: like they can speak to Indians and so forth, because

867
00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:52,160
Speaker 2: they all speak English as well. And there was an

868
00:47:52,200 --> 00:47:55,160
Speaker 2: Indian bloke in funnily enough, in the detention center there,

869
00:47:55,200 --> 00:47:59,359
Speaker 2: while waiting to get out and so and then he goes, right,

870
00:47:59,440 --> 00:48:02,160
Speaker 2: what I need from you? How quickly can you get

871
00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:04,080
Speaker 2: a plane ticket? I said, I can get it tomorrow.

872
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:07,640
Speaker 2: He was right. And then he gave me an email address,

873
00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:10,120
Speaker 2: and he said, and I lied and said that the

874
00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:16,799
Speaker 2: embassy sent me down here. I do, mate. But that

875
00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:19,399
Speaker 2: was the other thing. If if he caught onto that

876
00:48:20,120 --> 00:48:23,440
Speaker 2: the game was up, and you know, the embassy said

877
00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:25,759
Speaker 2: to come down here to speak to you, you.

878
00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:28,799
Speaker 1: Know about this, I'd put it in the little after.

879
00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:32,520
Speaker 2: Going yeah, after going up being up there, you know,

880
00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:34,480
Speaker 2: and then just sending me down. So obviously there was

881
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:38,160
Speaker 2: no communication through that those two different entities or whatever.

882
00:48:38,200 --> 00:48:40,719
Speaker 2: I don't know. Well maybe that's what happened later with

883
00:48:40,719 --> 00:48:45,239
Speaker 2: the car, the card or better retribution for that. But

884
00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:48,719
Speaker 2: so anyways, I said, I can get it tomorrow and

885
00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:50,719
Speaker 2: get I can get a letter from the embassy, which

886
00:48:50,719 --> 00:48:54,200
Speaker 2: I did. It's just say, you know, well they photo

887
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:57,120
Speaker 2: copied the because he says email it to me, and

888
00:48:57,160 --> 00:48:58,680
Speaker 2: I didn't want to do that. I said, no, mate,

889
00:48:58,719 --> 00:49:00,680
Speaker 2: I'll do you one better. I'll get a photo copy

890
00:49:00,719 --> 00:49:04,200
Speaker 2: of the flights. I'll hand it to you. I'll get

891
00:49:04,200 --> 00:49:06,040
Speaker 2: three copies, one for me, one for you, and one

892
00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:08,759
Speaker 2: for the embassy. And so I get down there, and

893
00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:11,640
Speaker 2: I get down there as early as possible because traffic's

894
00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:15,040
Speaker 2: bad and stuff like that, and with my luggage, with

895
00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:20,239
Speaker 2: my passport, and things just weren't seeming right, you know.

896
00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:24,400
Speaker 2: And you know, you meant to be on a flight,

897
00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:27,600
Speaker 2: an international flight. Was it three hours before you meant

898
00:49:27,640 --> 00:49:32,040
Speaker 2: to be at the the two hours to go? And

899
00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:35,440
Speaker 2: I'm asking, ah, you know, it's do we need to

900
00:49:35,560 --> 00:49:40,680
Speaker 2: get going across the road there? And then yeah, they're

901
00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:43,680
Speaker 2: all getting dressed up in their military outfits, like those

902
00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:46,840
Speaker 2: headhind chows at the prison. They're all in their black

903
00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:48,799
Speaker 2: They look like they're a car key with all their

904
00:49:48,840 --> 00:49:54,279
Speaker 2: medals and their black shiny shoes and the black bround. Yeah.

905
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:58,520
Speaker 2: Then they're very proud, you know. And then he there's

906
00:49:58,560 --> 00:50:02,640
Speaker 2: a police car there, one that we're going in, and

907
00:50:02,640 --> 00:50:05,160
Speaker 2: he put your hand on there, like to get in,

908
00:50:05,560 --> 00:50:07,840
Speaker 2: and he just slams the door straight on it. Bang

909
00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:13,640
Speaker 2: there you go out. Yeah, that's a spiral fracture. Yeah,

910
00:50:14,120 --> 00:50:16,719
Speaker 2: the other fingers got in there as well, but that

911
00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:20,960
Speaker 2: one got the brun of it. Blood everywhere, blood everywhere.

912
00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:23,160
Speaker 1: So just he told you to put your hand there,

913
00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:24,640
Speaker 1: and then deliberately.

914
00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:26,480
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, but as I was getting in, so he's

915
00:50:26,800 --> 00:50:31,080
Speaker 2: strategically done it. But he's just gone bushka. And there

916
00:50:31,160 --> 00:50:34,440
Speaker 2: was no accident because then the cane came out. He

917
00:50:34,560 --> 00:50:38,040
Speaker 2: started caning me and another guy started caning me like

918
00:50:38,200 --> 00:50:40,360
Speaker 2: with a piece of you know that you get in

919
00:50:40,440 --> 00:50:44,080
Speaker 2: the school for massive Well, it's all over my back,

920
00:50:44,239 --> 00:50:48,400
Speaker 2: you know. Yeah, And I think one of the ways

921
00:50:48,440 --> 00:50:50,200
Speaker 2: that it was disguised is because I was covered in

922
00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:53,920
Speaker 2: say any other things, scabies and golden staff you.

923
00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:57,560
Speaker 1: Know, and then you look at picture of hell oh mate,

924
00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:00,560
Speaker 1: and I got, I got.

925
00:51:01,200 --> 00:51:04,040
Speaker 2: I got to you know. It was a half an

926
00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:06,560
Speaker 2: hour before we went over there and they marched me

927
00:51:06,640 --> 00:51:09,680
Speaker 2: in luggage. I didn't think, you know, there was there

928
00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:12,960
Speaker 2: was two things concerning me when I picked my luggage

929
00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:14,960
Speaker 2: up from the court because it'd been there a long

930
00:51:15,080 --> 00:51:17,640
Speaker 2: long time, that they might have signed something into it.

931
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:23,200
Speaker 2: I had presents for my son and stepdaughter and all

932
00:51:23,239 --> 00:51:27,799
Speaker 2: this at the time, right, they were all taken all.

933
00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:30,000
Speaker 2: The only thing they didn't take was the sea and

934
00:51:30,080 --> 00:51:32,080
Speaker 2: reaped t shirt with a picture of ank or what

935
00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:34,800
Speaker 2: on it, because that would be bad for them to do.

936
00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:35,239
Speaker 2: You know.

937
00:51:37,040 --> 00:51:39,880
Speaker 1: But I think they've got karma coming at them in

938
00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:40,319
Speaker 1: some way.

939
00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:43,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, well they just yeah, well, I don't know that

940
00:51:43,719 --> 00:51:46,960
Speaker 2: that's they used religion when they want to know, with

941
00:51:47,080 --> 00:51:50,240
Speaker 2: the Buddhism, I thought Buddhas would meant to be peaceful.

942
00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:52,719
Speaker 2: And I said to one, I copt a beating for

943
00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:58,719
Speaker 2: that too. Bordha's watching you, Ba's watching you. Yeah, got

944
00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:00,799
Speaker 2: a bashing for trying to save someone his life as well,

945
00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:05,439
Speaker 2: you know, performing CPR on them. They said, let him die.

946
00:52:07,320 --> 00:52:09,440
Speaker 2: I was screaming out for the guards. They never come,

947
00:52:11,640 --> 00:52:16,839
Speaker 2: so yeah, and then my thingers bleeding everywhere. He's put

948
00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:19,839
Speaker 2: a bit of tape around it, tissue and a bit

949
00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:23,040
Speaker 2: of tape. Put me on the plane and it felt

950
00:52:23,080 --> 00:52:27,319
Speaker 2: like an eternity sitting on that tarmac. I just thought

951
00:52:27,360 --> 00:52:29,960
Speaker 2: they were going to come back walking back on which

952
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:32,200
Speaker 2: they could have done, because it's almost like they're the

953
00:52:32,239 --> 00:52:35,120
Speaker 2: military the police over there. They've got the same power

954
00:52:35,600 --> 00:52:39,919
Speaker 2: pretty much. You know, the King of Cambardia doesn't really

955
00:52:40,040 --> 00:52:42,280
Speaker 2: do anything. It's the Prime minister who's got all the power.

956
00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:46,640
Speaker 2: And anyways, but we talk off when I get to Thailand,

957
00:52:47,160 --> 00:52:51,239
Speaker 2: and thankfully they had a hospital in the airport which

958
00:52:51,320 --> 00:52:54,960
Speaker 2: they could clean it up because I was worried about disease,

959
00:52:55,080 --> 00:52:58,520
Speaker 2: and you know, they're just the fact that the stuff

960
00:52:58,560 --> 00:53:01,080
Speaker 2: in the air it just breeds back to aia, you know,

961
00:53:01,320 --> 00:53:04,120
Speaker 2: very quickly. And they fixed that up and then I

962
00:53:04,239 --> 00:53:08,520
Speaker 2: got but I was stuck in Thai airport for twenty hours,

963
00:53:08,960 --> 00:53:11,600
Speaker 2: still walking around in my ratty old clothes, you know,

964
00:53:12,360 --> 00:53:15,080
Speaker 2: because everything in the bag that wasn't stolen was filthy.

965
00:53:15,719 --> 00:53:18,560
Speaker 1: You know, I'd been there over a year, but I

966
00:53:18,600 --> 00:53:21,320
Speaker 1: could imagine from what you've come from, it was probably luxury.

967
00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:24,480
Speaker 2: I was going into you know where you can go

968
00:53:24,600 --> 00:53:27,920
Speaker 2: and use the testers doing that because I was stinking,

969
00:53:28,360 --> 00:53:31,719
Speaker 2: and I was filthy, you know, and bit my feet

970
00:53:31,800 --> 00:53:34,680
Speaker 2: were filthy. I had a pair of radiold thongs on.

971
00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:39,600
Speaker 2: I landed in Sydney Airport and it was freezing, absolutely

972
00:53:39,680 --> 00:53:42,480
Speaker 2: freezing out A short, short pair of pair of shorts,

973
00:53:42,520 --> 00:53:43,440
Speaker 2: T shirt and thongs on.

974
00:53:44,320 --> 00:53:45,279
Speaker 1: Who was here to meet you?

975
00:53:45,600 --> 00:53:47,480
Speaker 2: No one I had to get from. Then I had

976
00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:49,400
Speaker 2: to get the plane up to the Gold Coast right.

977
00:53:50,520 --> 00:53:54,399
Speaker 2: And the funny story is that because I didn't drank

978
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:58,200
Speaker 2: in such a long long time, these old rock and

979
00:53:58,320 --> 00:54:02,040
Speaker 2: rollers get on at Sydney right and wearing their sunglasses

980
00:54:02,080 --> 00:54:05,520
Speaker 2: and long scraggly hair. And then this guy gets on

981
00:54:05,680 --> 00:54:07,960
Speaker 2: with the aviators and the long curly hair. I can

982
00:54:08,080 --> 00:54:10,719
Speaker 2: smell him coming from the front of the plane. I

983
00:54:10,800 --> 00:54:13,480
Speaker 2: can smell the whiskey on him, a cigarette. It was

984
00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:17,200
Speaker 2: Dave Gleason now screaming jets and so I had him

985
00:54:17,280 --> 00:54:20,760
Speaker 2: sitting somewhere close to me in a Titans footy player

986
00:54:21,760 --> 00:54:23,960
Speaker 2: sitting directly across from me. I think it might have

987
00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:27,080
Speaker 2: been four and actually, and then when I got off

988
00:54:27,120 --> 00:54:31,279
Speaker 2: the plane, I always promised myself this. I got off

989
00:54:31,320 --> 00:54:33,719
Speaker 2: the plane. I literally went down. I was at the

990
00:54:33,760 --> 00:54:35,960
Speaker 2: back getting off the back, down the stairs and kissed

991
00:54:35,960 --> 00:54:38,920
Speaker 2: the ground. And he's looked at me and gone, what's

992
00:54:39,000 --> 00:54:42,080
Speaker 2: going on there? Said, mate, don't even ask. Just got up,

993
00:54:42,520 --> 00:54:47,040
Speaker 2: got into the airport waiting for my luggage, and I

994
00:54:47,120 --> 00:54:49,239
Speaker 2: saw Max Partner and you could see the look on

995
00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:52,600
Speaker 2: her face. She hugged me, but you could see the

996
00:54:52,680 --> 00:54:56,359
Speaker 2: look on her face. She couldn't believe how much weight

997
00:54:56,440 --> 00:54:59,960
Speaker 2: I'd lost. I was skin and bone and I was covered.

998
00:55:01,160 --> 00:55:05,360
Speaker 2: I'm surprised you wanted to argue. I was down to

999
00:55:05,480 --> 00:55:10,200
Speaker 2: forty forty five kes, something really gaunt in the face,

1000
00:55:10,680 --> 00:55:13,879
Speaker 2: rib sticking out everywhere, and it took me a long

1001
00:55:13,920 --> 00:55:16,879
Speaker 2: time to get any appetite back. You know, I couldn't eat.

1002
00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:20,960
Speaker 1: How your health you would have got your health checked out?

1003
00:55:22,080 --> 00:55:26,000
Speaker 2: I had to how you scrub up with any I

1004
00:55:26,080 --> 00:55:30,960
Speaker 2: had every every blood test done for every STD all

1005
00:55:31,080 --> 00:55:35,000
Speaker 2: come back negative, thankfully. I had a lot of general

1006
00:55:35,080 --> 00:55:37,239
Speaker 2: towards and things like that. I had to get burnt off,

1007
00:55:38,960 --> 00:55:41,920
Speaker 2: and then you know, the scabies and stuff that and

1008
00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:46,000
Speaker 2: the Golden Staff was pretty bad. Like it took a

1009
00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:51,560
Speaker 2: long time with tablets, ointments that you weren't just putting

1010
00:55:51,640 --> 00:55:55,879
Speaker 2: dab and it was everywhere and for weeks or some well,

1011
00:55:55,960 --> 00:55:58,279
Speaker 2: my face only took My face took the longest to

1012
00:55:58,320 --> 00:56:01,239
Speaker 2: clear up. I don't know why, but it was maybe

1013
00:56:01,280 --> 00:56:03,960
Speaker 2: a good month and a half before I've seen any results.

1014
00:56:04,120 --> 00:56:08,359
Speaker 2: Was that bad, you know, And just the weight as well,

1015
00:56:09,480 --> 00:56:14,560
Speaker 2: Like it was scary and I just couldn't eat. And

1016
00:56:15,920 --> 00:56:19,920
Speaker 2: but you know, it's not just because it's over. It's

1017
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:20,480
Speaker 2: never over.

1018
00:56:21,080 --> 00:56:25,840
Speaker 1: No, you're describing the physical repairing of yourself, but I

1019
00:56:26,320 --> 00:56:29,480
Speaker 1: imagine there's a mental and emotional scarring there.

1020
00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:32,879
Speaker 2: I just I can't work at the moment at all.

1021
00:56:34,160 --> 00:56:39,120
Speaker 2: Everything triggers my traumas everything. I can't have people sitting

1022
00:56:39,200 --> 00:56:42,279
Speaker 2: behind me. I've always I can see people out of

1023
00:56:42,280 --> 00:56:45,240
Speaker 2: the corners of my eyes, you know, I always always

1024
00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:53,160
Speaker 2: can see constantly worried about noises. It just triggers anxiety

1025
00:56:53,239 --> 00:56:59,680
Speaker 2: as well, triggers trauma, you know, just so many different things,

1026
00:56:59,840 --> 00:57:03,480
Speaker 2: like I can't sleep at night. The nightmares are some

1027
00:57:03,560 --> 00:57:05,840
Speaker 2: of the worst things I've ever had in my life,

1028
00:57:06,920 --> 00:57:12,600
Speaker 2: Like the especially you know, reoccurring nightmares, the rape. For example,

1029
00:57:12,960 --> 00:57:16,040
Speaker 2: when I was saying to you before about you know,

1030
00:57:16,360 --> 00:57:21,680
Speaker 2: I've never felt a sensation in a dream before, or

1031
00:57:21,760 --> 00:57:25,360
Speaker 2: a smell. I can still feel that cold damp floor

1032
00:57:25,480 --> 00:57:27,120
Speaker 2: on the side of my face when my head was

1033
00:57:27,200 --> 00:57:30,960
Speaker 2: pushed down into the concrete while I was being attacked

1034
00:57:31,200 --> 00:57:36,160
Speaker 2: sexually assaulted. The smell of the sewer, looking at the

1035
00:57:36,320 --> 00:57:41,160
Speaker 2: filthy cook like crevice of a white wall, you know,

1036
00:57:41,920 --> 00:57:46,160
Speaker 2: picturing that like just trying to, like I said, trying

1037
00:57:46,240 --> 00:57:49,920
Speaker 2: to not think about what was happening to me. But

1038
00:57:50,040 --> 00:57:55,920
Speaker 2: those it's almost like a still shot. But but in

1039
00:57:56,040 --> 00:58:02,000
Speaker 2: a movie, like shots of a movie, it's not good.

1040
00:58:02,400 --> 00:58:04,080
Speaker 2: It's not good, and it's going to take a long

1041
00:58:04,160 --> 00:58:05,200
Speaker 2: time to get right.

1042
00:58:05,600 --> 00:58:09,480
Speaker 1: What the type of services are available to well.

1043
00:58:09,520 --> 00:58:13,760
Speaker 2: I see a psychiatrist every fortnight, and I see a

1044
00:58:13,920 --> 00:58:19,200
Speaker 2: sexual trauma counselor every week. But you know, look, when

1045
00:58:19,240 --> 00:58:22,000
Speaker 2: I first got back to after I spent the first week,

1046
00:58:22,200 --> 00:58:25,120
Speaker 2: how long have you been back now it's about six

1047
00:58:25,200 --> 00:58:28,560
Speaker 2: and a half months, I think. But when I first

1048
00:58:28,640 --> 00:58:31,800
Speaker 2: got back to every service and it was very hard

1049
00:58:31,880 --> 00:58:34,080
Speaker 2: to because you know, they deal a lot of people

1050
00:58:34,120 --> 00:58:36,520
Speaker 2: coming out of prison in Australia, but they don't deal

1051
00:58:36,560 --> 00:58:39,760
Speaker 2: a lot of people coming from overseas, and so they

1052
00:58:39,920 --> 00:58:42,200
Speaker 2: just didn't know how to deal with me, and put

1053
00:58:42,280 --> 00:58:44,840
Speaker 2: me to someone else. And you can't understand. My trauma

1054
00:58:44,920 --> 00:58:49,000
Speaker 2: levels are so high, My anxiety levels are so high

1055
00:58:49,160 --> 00:58:52,000
Speaker 2: that it's going in one ear coming out the other.

1056
00:58:52,640 --> 00:58:55,280
Speaker 2: I'll go and see these people. I must have met

1057
00:58:55,400 --> 00:59:00,200
Speaker 2: thirty or twenty people, all different abbreviated PhDs, this that

1058
00:59:00,360 --> 00:59:03,400
Speaker 2: the other you know. Couldn't remember half of them. I

1059
00:59:03,560 --> 00:59:06,480
Speaker 2: was writing them down, still couldn't remember. I was getting bombarded.

1060
00:59:06,520 --> 00:59:08,600
Speaker 2: But they just moved me on and moved me on,

1061
00:59:08,680 --> 00:59:10,560
Speaker 2: and moved me on and moved me on to another agency.

1062
00:59:10,840 --> 00:59:13,440
Speaker 2: Couldn't deal with it. Then I got to like housing

1063
00:59:13,560 --> 00:59:17,320
Speaker 2: places to sort out some temporar accommodation. They asked me

1064
00:59:17,400 --> 00:59:19,360
Speaker 2: the wrong question, so I fell through the cracks there.

1065
00:59:20,520 --> 00:59:22,440
Speaker 2: One of the ladies from safe Haven said are very

1066
00:59:22,520 --> 00:59:25,680
Speaker 2: poignant things. She said, It's like you've just been plucked

1067
00:59:26,040 --> 00:59:29,160
Speaker 2: from Mars and been chuck straight back on Earth. You're

1068
00:59:29,240 --> 00:59:33,160
Speaker 2: just an alien, you know how you're dealing with all this,

1069
00:59:33,480 --> 00:59:38,840
Speaker 2: like everything your sensory overload from coming from you everywhere,

1070
00:59:39,000 --> 00:59:43,200
Speaker 2: And then and then some temporary accommodation is not ideal

1071
00:59:43,440 --> 00:59:46,760
Speaker 2: and you stay there and it just triggers trauma. Because

1072
00:59:46,800 --> 00:59:49,720
Speaker 2: of other people there that have got other issues themselves,

1073
00:59:49,880 --> 00:59:53,640
Speaker 2: you know. So it's not been easy. I've been living

1074
00:59:53,680 --> 01:00:00,440
Speaker 2: in my car at times. You know, it's not good. No, So,

1075
01:00:00,720 --> 01:00:06,120
Speaker 2: you know I think today, I mean, there's so much

1076
01:00:06,480 --> 01:00:10,320
Speaker 2: much more we could discuss about things. But I really

1077
01:00:10,400 --> 01:00:14,640
Speaker 2: want people to understand be very cautious when you go overseas.

1078
01:00:15,960 --> 01:00:17,800
Speaker 2: You might not be. You might be just crossing a

1079
01:00:17,920 --> 01:00:20,880
Speaker 2: road and someone runs a map ed into your leg

1080
01:00:21,120 --> 01:00:24,520
Speaker 2: and goes you were drunk, calls the police up, you

1081
01:00:24,600 --> 01:00:28,040
Speaker 2: get arrested. That's how there was people in the Canvadian

1082
01:00:28,080 --> 01:00:30,320
Speaker 2: prison that they were set up. You know, they just

1083
01:00:30,400 --> 01:00:34,720
Speaker 2: flee them for money because they're European or whatever. Just

1084
01:00:34,800 --> 01:00:39,120
Speaker 2: be very mindful about that. And I don't think that

1085
01:00:39,600 --> 01:00:42,400
Speaker 2: because you're an Australian citizen that there's someone there to

1086
01:00:42,480 --> 01:00:43,960
Speaker 2: help you either. Yeah, we're not.

1087
01:00:44,120 --> 01:00:46,480
Speaker 1: We're not eve, aren't we. Yeah, Like I think of

1088
01:00:46,560 --> 01:00:49,480
Speaker 1: all the third world countries I've traveled in, the stupid

1089
01:00:49,520 --> 01:00:52,760
Speaker 1: stuff you do when you're traveling, or the risks you take.

1090
01:00:54,440 --> 01:00:59,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, But most importantly, I hope it puts a real

1091
01:01:00,160 --> 01:01:04,680
Speaker 2: strong light on the fact that you could, you know,

1092
01:01:04,880 --> 01:01:07,400
Speaker 2: you could be in any situation and end up in prison.

1093
01:01:07,840 --> 01:01:12,280
Speaker 2: That's what happened to me. I did nothing wrong, and

1094
01:01:13,160 --> 01:01:15,480
Speaker 2: I I've had one hell of a hell of a time.

1095
01:01:15,640 --> 01:01:19,360
Speaker 1: You know, it's such such an important message. And when

1096
01:01:19,480 --> 01:01:22,760
Speaker 1: their mutual friend got in contact with me and told

1097
01:01:22,800 --> 01:01:25,320
Speaker 1: me a little bit about your story and then started

1098
01:01:25,360 --> 01:01:29,280
Speaker 1: breathing documents, yeah you had it just blew me away.

1099
01:01:29,720 --> 01:01:34,600
Speaker 1: And yeah, obviously here on my catch Killers, we have

1100
01:01:34,760 --> 01:01:36,560
Speaker 1: people who have done a lot of time in prison

1101
01:01:36,640 --> 01:01:39,320
Speaker 1: for a variety of crimes. But this is I think

1102
01:01:39,400 --> 01:01:42,840
Speaker 1: this is an example of how something so innocuous can

1103
01:01:42,960 --> 01:01:47,960
Speaker 1: turn into just change your life. But I also want

1104
01:01:48,000 --> 01:01:51,520
Speaker 1: to make the point that your courage for you to

1105
01:01:51,600 --> 01:01:54,840
Speaker 1: come out and talk about this, because I can see

1106
01:01:54,920 --> 01:01:57,640
Speaker 1: how sometimes it might be your inclination. I just want

1107
01:01:57,680 --> 01:01:59,040
Speaker 1: to walk away from it. I don't want to know

1108
01:01:59,120 --> 01:02:01,760
Speaker 1: about They want to try and forget it. But my

1109
01:02:01,960 --> 01:02:05,120
Speaker 1: way of viewing the way that you're approaching this, you're

1110
01:02:05,160 --> 01:02:08,160
Speaker 1: taking it on, acknowledge that, not letting it break you,

1111
01:02:08,440 --> 01:02:13,240
Speaker 1: and you're moving forward. And I keep coming back to

1112
01:02:13,320 --> 01:02:15,919
Speaker 1: it because I'm just thinking, and I think anyone that's

1113
01:02:16,040 --> 01:02:18,480
Speaker 1: listened to this podcast would be wondering how would I

1114
01:02:18,600 --> 01:02:21,200
Speaker 1: react in that situation? That you found yourself in. Would

1115
01:02:21,200 --> 01:02:24,400
Speaker 1: I survive? I don't know, Like that was a hardcore

1116
01:02:25,160 --> 01:02:26,360
Speaker 1: where you found yourself in.

1117
01:02:27,040 --> 01:02:30,880
Speaker 2: It's funny how you know you can find resilience in

1118
01:02:30,960 --> 01:02:32,640
Speaker 2: the places that you don't know where you've got them,

1119
01:02:33,480 --> 01:02:39,720
Speaker 2: you know. I just again, there was times where I

1120
01:02:39,800 --> 01:02:41,800
Speaker 2: didn't think I was going to make it, to be honest,

1121
01:02:42,440 --> 01:02:44,320
Speaker 2: I had to think about my son, you know, he's

1122
01:02:44,400 --> 01:02:47,640
Speaker 2: the one. And if it wasn't for my partner ex partner,

1123
01:02:48,680 --> 01:02:51,520
Speaker 2: you know, sending that money. I mean, there's many factors

1124
01:02:51,520 --> 01:02:54,920
Speaker 2: that kept me alive, yeah, you know, but they were

1125
01:02:54,960 --> 01:02:57,280
Speaker 2: the two main ones. She saved my life. You know,

1126
01:02:57,360 --> 01:02:59,480
Speaker 2: I'm forever, eternally grateful for her for that.

1127
01:03:00,880 --> 01:03:04,800
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, you talked about another Aussie bloke that was

1128
01:03:04,880 --> 01:03:08,000
Speaker 1: over there, and he had a long sentence and you

1129
01:03:08,080 --> 01:03:11,120
Speaker 1: don't know what's happened to him, No, And I don't.

1130
01:03:11,000 --> 01:03:14,160
Speaker 2: See that the Australian embassy would be able to do

1131
01:03:14,200 --> 01:03:17,040
Speaker 2: anything to help him there. Yeah, and I'd be very

1132
01:03:17,120 --> 01:03:22,000
Speaker 2: surprised whether he's still alive or not. Yeah, it's you

1133
01:03:22,160 --> 01:03:26,080
Speaker 2: just if you've got no money, you've got no chance.

1134
01:03:26,800 --> 01:03:29,280
Speaker 2: And that's that's just that's the bottom.

1135
01:03:28,960 --> 01:03:29,640
Speaker 1: Line, you know.

1136
01:03:30,440 --> 01:03:34,480
Speaker 2: And if you get sick, you die. You're constantly battling

1137
01:03:34,560 --> 01:03:37,040
Speaker 2: those things, you know, like I just can't get sick.

1138
01:03:37,520 --> 01:03:40,240
Speaker 1: You know, like it's tiptoeing through it. Mindfild it is.

1139
01:03:40,440 --> 01:03:41,840
Speaker 2: And then you've got people coming at you, want to

1140
01:03:41,880 --> 01:03:46,560
Speaker 2: attack you, rape ya, kill you, pedophiles all around as well.

1141
01:03:46,680 --> 01:03:48,920
Speaker 2: Like I didn't even touch on those kind of guys

1142
01:03:49,000 --> 01:03:52,440
Speaker 2: I met, ye, mate, there's some of the stuff that

1143
01:03:52,600 --> 01:03:57,320
Speaker 2: they did the young kids. But this guy came into

1144
01:03:57,360 --> 01:04:00,200
Speaker 2: the cell on the very first day that he got

1145
01:04:00,240 --> 01:04:05,160
Speaker 2: into prison, tried to commit suicide, jumped on off the roof,

1146
01:04:05,200 --> 01:04:07,200
Speaker 2: climbed up on the roof and jumped on the razor. Y.

1147
01:04:07,320 --> 01:04:11,840
Speaker 2: His name was Stephan from Switzerland. So I was in

1148
01:04:11,920 --> 01:04:14,160
Speaker 2: the hospital at this time. So he's been stitched up

1149
01:04:14,680 --> 01:04:17,400
Speaker 2: like he's you know, but he stayed in our room.

1150
01:04:18,440 --> 01:04:20,440
Speaker 2: Now before when I was telling you about those two

1151
01:04:20,480 --> 01:04:23,520
Speaker 2: guys who worked at the hospital, they also got the

1152
01:04:23,640 --> 01:04:26,320
Speaker 2: charge sheets, so they could tell when I walked in there.

1153
01:04:26,320 --> 01:04:28,000
Speaker 2: They get like, oh, you're the at M guy.

1154
01:04:28,280 --> 01:04:29,840
Speaker 1: Okay, So they get fed to them.

1155
01:04:31,400 --> 01:04:34,640
Speaker 2: Because they can't speak very decent English or you know,

1156
01:04:35,280 --> 01:04:39,040
Speaker 2: English very well. I was almost like the conduit between

1157
01:04:39,440 --> 01:04:42,560
Speaker 2: Stephan and because he could speak five languages. This guy

1158
01:04:44,200 --> 01:04:48,200
Speaker 2: and all the pedophiles always had the same thing as well.

1159
01:04:48,240 --> 01:04:50,680
Speaker 2: They'd all blame the angio. The angios of people come

1160
01:04:50,760 --> 01:04:55,160
Speaker 2: in and say, listen, you're you're in trouble, you know.

1161
01:04:56,680 --> 01:05:00,840
Speaker 2: So I've been read what this guy has done. He

1162
01:05:01,040 --> 01:05:03,960
Speaker 2: had so he was with this woman who had six

1163
01:05:04,160 --> 01:05:10,160
Speaker 2: kids to six different fellas. She's a nice addict Cambodian woman.

1164
01:05:10,480 --> 01:05:15,120
Speaker 2: He's living with her. He's prostituting these children out to

1165
01:05:15,280 --> 01:05:18,640
Speaker 2: men were coming to the house. I think the oldest

1166
01:05:18,760 --> 01:05:21,960
Speaker 2: was ten, you know what I mean, And the youngest

1167
01:05:22,080 --> 01:05:26,520
Speaker 2: was four boys and girls, you know. And I'm having

1168
01:05:26,600 --> 01:05:29,680
Speaker 2: to sit there and try and speak to this guy.

1169
01:05:30,120 --> 01:05:32,480
Speaker 2: And you know, as you know of the podcast I

1170
01:05:32,560 --> 01:05:34,560
Speaker 2: mentioned many times, we've got a son and he was

1171
01:05:34,600 --> 01:05:40,320
Speaker 2: four at the time, and just and they very what

1172
01:05:40,440 --> 01:05:43,080
Speaker 2: I learned about the pedophiles in the time that I

1173
01:05:43,120 --> 01:05:45,760
Speaker 2: spent with him in prison. As the master manipulators, they'll

1174
01:05:45,800 --> 01:05:49,640
Speaker 2: turn everything back on you. They deflect all the time,

1175
01:05:49,720 --> 01:05:53,040
Speaker 2: they deflect. I'll turn the conversation to something else, like

1176
01:05:53,160 --> 01:05:56,640
Speaker 2: the angio was a perfect example. Ah. They they've been

1177
01:05:56,720 --> 01:06:01,600
Speaker 2: trying to catch me. It's the corruption and this and

1178
01:06:01,720 --> 01:06:04,960
Speaker 2: that and the other and you know, sure I might

1179
01:06:05,040 --> 01:06:06,960
Speaker 2: go on, but with that something like that, you know,

1180
01:06:07,680 --> 01:06:13,120
Speaker 2: where yeah, things like that, and having to deal with

1181
01:06:13,240 --> 01:06:16,120
Speaker 2: those guys that goal was in my cell for you know.

1182
01:06:16,440 --> 01:06:19,240
Speaker 2: And because he had money, they left him alone, you know.

1183
01:06:19,760 --> 01:06:22,640
Speaker 2: And then he started manipulating people in the cell, because

1184
01:06:22,640 --> 01:06:26,120
Speaker 2: there was always six or seven people that were regulars

1185
01:06:26,160 --> 01:06:31,520
Speaker 2: in that cell, me included, and he started manipulating you know, people,

1186
01:06:31,720 --> 01:06:36,080
Speaker 2: and you know, like yeah, and then as soon as

1187
01:06:36,120 --> 01:06:39,160
Speaker 2: he got better, the first thing he did was signed

1188
01:06:39,240 --> 01:06:41,880
Speaker 2: up with this American guy who had been doing whatever

1189
01:06:41,960 --> 01:06:47,120
Speaker 2: he'd been doing to just terrific stuff.

1190
01:06:47,720 --> 01:06:53,280
Speaker 1: There's levels of yeah that just keep stooping down in

1191
01:06:53,360 --> 01:06:58,160
Speaker 1: a prison, prison like that. Well, yeah, and as you've

1192
01:06:58,240 --> 01:07:00,560
Speaker 1: told me, and then all the conversations we've had, there

1193
01:07:00,680 --> 01:07:04,520
Speaker 1: so many stories, and I've only drawn on a small

1194
01:07:04,600 --> 01:07:08,480
Speaker 1: part of it. The document we've been referring to as

1195
01:07:08,520 --> 01:07:12,880
Speaker 1: a narrative that you wrote down. I read it and

1196
01:07:13,840 --> 01:07:15,440
Speaker 1: I was blown away. And as I said to you,

1197
01:07:15,520 --> 01:07:18,120
Speaker 1: I was reading another book and prep for a guest

1198
01:07:18,200 --> 01:07:20,320
Speaker 1: coming on the podcast, and this was sent to me

1199
01:07:20,520 --> 01:07:23,480
Speaker 1: by a mutual friend, and I started reading and I

1200
01:07:23,520 --> 01:07:25,360
Speaker 1: didn't put it down because I just it was just

1201
01:07:25,480 --> 01:07:30,880
Speaker 1: so heavy in what's there? So an amazing story, and

1202
01:07:31,360 --> 01:07:34,760
Speaker 1: I've just got to say in finishing up, Yeah, I

1203
01:07:34,800 --> 01:07:36,760
Speaker 1: don't think you should feel shame. I think you should

1204
01:07:36,760 --> 01:07:38,640
Speaker 1: be proud of the fact that you survived the situation

1205
01:07:38,800 --> 01:07:39,760
Speaker 1: that most people wouldn't.

1206
01:07:40,000 --> 01:07:41,720
Speaker 2: Thank you, Gary, I appreciate that. Really.

1207
01:07:42,600 --> 01:07:44,560
Speaker 1: All the best, all the best for the future. It

1208
01:07:44,800 --> 01:07:45,680
Speaker 1: was a good future.

1209
01:07:45,760 --> 01:07:46,520
Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you.

1210
01:07:47,000 --> 01:07:47,280
Speaker 1: Cheers.