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Speaker 1: We've all had a Nippies drink at some stage in

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Speaker 1: our lives here in South Australia, whether it's orange juice

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Speaker 1: or any other range, apple, whatever, iced coffee, iced chocolate.

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Speaker 1: They're into a lot of different drinks. Nippies and fruit

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Speaker 1: juices is where it all started, going back decades ago.

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Speaker 1: Can remember drinking Nippies back in the seventies. Their power bill,

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Speaker 1: they had a great contract last year which saw them

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Speaker 1: paying around fifty odd thousand dollars a month for electricity

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Speaker 1: to run their factories and plants producing this great South

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Speaker 1: Australian product, and in anticipation of that deal ending they

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Speaker 1: installed sola, they cut back on electricity and despite that,

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Speaker 1: this year their power bills per month have doubled to

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Speaker 1: over doubled to over one hundred thousand dollars. And you

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Speaker 1: would think long term for a business at some point

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Speaker 1: that has to become unsustainable. You'd hope not. But how

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Speaker 1: can that continue? Ben Nips, Joint Managing director at Nippy's Ben,

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Speaker 1: good morning, thank you for coming on.

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Speaker 2: Good morning back here and good morning to your listeners.

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Speaker 1: Also, was that a fair summary?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Despite all the efforts we're going through

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Speaker 2: our bills have doubled. Yeah, very unfortunate.

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Speaker 1: How do you how do you work around that? I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's it's just unfathomable.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I suppose like for me and probably most other

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Speaker 2: people trying to run a business, it's just frustrating having

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Speaker 2: to sort of and I'm far from it at this stage,

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Speaker 2: but having to sort of almost become experts in energy

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Speaker 2: rather than an expert in orange trees and orange juice

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Speaker 2: and flavored milk. You know, solar panels on the roof,

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Speaker 2: understanding large scale grant revenue from large solar panels and

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Speaker 2: small scale grant revenue, variable speed drives to reduce consumption

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Speaker 2: of electricity, and pumps and motors spot moving to you know,

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Speaker 2: one of our contracts, we moved to a spot spot

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Speaker 2: price agreement to see whether you know, we couldn't save

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Speaker 2: some money that way. You know. As an example, last

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Speaker 2: Thursday morning, when the spot price hits twelve five hundred dollars,

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Speaker 2: a meet Omega, what how we actually shut the machinery off.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, there's all sorts of things we're trying to do.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, it would be nice if it would be

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Speaker 2: nice if we just had good, stable, reliable power twenty

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Speaker 2: four hours a day.

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Speaker 1: What's needed for that to happen? Obviously it's got to

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Speaker 1: be government policy, am I right?

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Speaker 2: I would imagine so, yeah, I would imagine so, and

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Speaker 2: and a long term view, you know, a long term

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Speaker 2: view that's not just you know, to the next election

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Speaker 2: or getting re elected for another term. You know, what

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Speaker 2: we're what we're dealing with with businesses here is see

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Speaker 2: the issues that are beyond one election.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, basely power from okay, you're an emerging expert obviously

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Speaker 1: from what you say in electricity, base load power. Now,

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Speaker 1: I've often commented here we've either got to look at

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Speaker 1: nuclear or we go back to coal, or we ramp

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Speaker 1: up gas. So we've got turbines operating twenty four to seven,

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Speaker 1: so we don't have the peaks and troughs in that

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Speaker 1: generating price. Is that your general position take?

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Speaker 2: Certainly, you know, probably gases that people are talking about

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Speaker 2: nuclear now, but I mean that's that's as you see

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Speaker 2: in the media. That's not going to be a short term.

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Speaker 2: So short term fixes probably are the other two options

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Speaker 2: you've mentioned gas or coal, And maybe we do I mean, yeah,

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Speaker 2: maybe we do have to slow down the transition that's

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Speaker 2: going on to renewables. Maybe that has to happen, but

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Speaker 2: maybe it needs to be done, you know, at a

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Speaker 2: slower rate, so that so that the prices you know,

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Speaker 2: aren't doubling a lot while I'm seeing.

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Speaker 1: It's as I said earlier, it's not sustainable long term.

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Speaker 1: It might be for a while, but ultimately it's got

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Speaker 1: to lead to higher prices for consumers, doesn't it. And

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Speaker 1: then that has impacts across the board during a cost

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Speaker 1: of living crisis, especially as to whether people continue to buy.

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Speaker 1: And then you look at employment and so that cycle continues.

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Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely, and it's not you know, anyone running a business,

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Speaker 2: we know that power is just one of the pressures

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Speaker 2: we've got, you know, insurance, wages, it all adds up.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's not to be pessimistic. That's the reality

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Speaker 1: of it. That if there's a hit over here, that's

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Speaker 1: got to be paid for over there, and ultimately that's

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Speaker 1: a downward spiral.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I'd agree with that. And like you say,

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Speaker 2: like you say in the DNA of most business owners,

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Speaker 2: not to be pessimistic. We always we thrive on solving

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Speaker 2: problems and look into the future. We just want we

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Speaker 2: just probably want I think you know, a bit more

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Speaker 2: support from the people that are running this whole power thing,

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Speaker 2: which I guess the government. At the end of the day.

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Speaker 1: What's it going to take energy ministers coming together to

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Speaker 1: change legislation across the board, because in what is allegedly

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Speaker 1: a national market, it needs to be across the board.

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Speaker 1: They've all got to agree on putting consumers first.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Oh look, Maank you I'm not going to pretend

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Speaker 2: that I know the arts. I guess probably more a

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Speaker 2: spokesman or want to share my message because I know

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Speaker 2: I'm not alone and just plead for those that are

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Speaker 2: in control of this to do something better than what

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Speaker 2: we're seeing now.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, well that certainly needs to happen. All right, Ben,

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Speaker 1: appreciate you coming on. Thank you. Thanks Matt ben nisbel there,

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Speaker 1: who is joint managing director of Nippie's been around for

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Speaker 1: decades here in South Australia and of course orange reduced

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Speaker 1: flavored milk, all of that, a lot of other things too.

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Speaker 1: But it comes at a cost. It certainly does. When

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Speaker 1: power price is there bill doubling from fifty to over

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Speaker 1: one hundred thousand per month. You know, this march of

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Speaker 1: ours is electricity market. It doesn't work well for consumers,

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Speaker 1: it might for generators, it might for retailers. And this

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Speaker 1: is where energy ministers have got to stop pretending there's

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Speaker 1: a market that they can't control because they set it

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Speaker 1: up and they need to be on top of it

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Speaker 1: to put consumers first and the profits of big company second.

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Speaker 1: Now you might save that change as well, there won't

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Speaker 1: be the investment that's needed, will so be it? I

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Speaker 1: suppose to a point, then maybe state governments will get

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Speaker 1: serious about becoming generators again, because you know, they say

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Speaker 1: it's been sold off. Nothing we can do well there

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Speaker 1: is They could put our money into creating generation to

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Speaker 1: bring down power prices if they wanted to. But do

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Speaker 1: they want to? Andrew k Coosa Business Chamber listening to

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Speaker 1: Ben nisbel talk there, Andrew, good morning to you. It's

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Speaker 1: you know, as we say, we don't want to be pessimistic,

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Speaker 1: but how does a business cope when it's pound prices

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Speaker 1: double per month?

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Speaker 3: Good morning. That's why I think when a business feel

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Speaker 3: and know and lovenight like Nippi's faces this, it starts

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Speaker 3: to hit home the severity of the problem. And we

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Speaker 3: were in the Riverland a few months ago talking to

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Speaker 3: Ben and some other of our members there and we

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Speaker 3: were hearing a similar story of our businesses are saying,

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Speaker 3: you know, there are times of the day now that

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Speaker 3: we are just shutting down our plant and equipment because

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Speaker 3: it's not competitive for us to run with electricity prices

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Speaker 3: being where they are. And we know that not just

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Speaker 3: South Australia, but Australia as a whole is facing the

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Speaker 3: real productivity crisis. If we're having to shut down a

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Speaker 3: manufacturing plant because of electricity prices, it's only going to

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Speaker 3: fuel that further.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, what needs to happen. What's your position in terms

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Speaker 1: of lobbying government to make changes here.

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Speaker 3: It's interesting one We survey businesses every quarter and we've

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Speaker 3: also just gone out to the regions about issues facing

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Speaker 3: their businesses. Seventy five percent of local businesses, so that

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Speaker 3: the cost of doing business is the main issue they're

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Speaker 3: facing right now. And Matthew, that's not just energy that's spiraling,

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Speaker 3: wage cost, its insurance cost, it's rent. In the regions,

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Speaker 3: it was a top five issue. This is energy cost

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Speaker 3: for top five issue for aag, manufacturing, for retail, trade,

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Speaker 3: for accommodation sectors. They are all facing it. What we've

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Speaker 3: seen them from the government has some pretty shortfair measures,

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Speaker 3: like small businesses getting a three hundred and twenty five

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Speaker 3: dollars rebate, and obviously that is not going to scratch

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Speaker 3: the surface. What we're facing is this increase in the

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Speaker 3: cost of the wholesale price of gas. It's pushing up

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Speaker 3: gas five electricity generation cost and that's leading to high

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Speaker 3: wholesal electricity prices. Now, how did the government intervene here?

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Speaker 3: It's very complex. It's very complex. In some instances, you

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Speaker 3: really don't want them to getting involved because it will

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Speaker 3: attract further investment in the sector. On the other hand,

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Speaker 3: we want them to pull back the prices because they're

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Speaker 3: impacting the cost of doing business. So there is no

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Speaker 3: simple solution here. However, in a state where we are

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Speaker 3: driving renewables very hard, and the cost of electricity being

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Speaker 3: generated by those renewables it's often quite competitive. It's the

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Speaker 3: cost of the gas that's really killing us.

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Speaker 1: All right, do we need more development in that area?

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Speaker 3: Then the transition is going to need more support, certainly

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Speaker 3: in the field of gas to get us through. And

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Speaker 3: I think businesses are same to us right now. Their

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Speaker 3: concern during this transition. Theory is it's pushing cost of

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Speaker 3: electricity too high, it's making us un competitive, it makes

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Speaker 3: its un competitive on a global market for businesses that

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Speaker 3: are trying to export. Not just the fact that businesses

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Speaker 3: are trying to stay a float locally, so they want

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Speaker 3: to want to see some relief there and the transition

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Speaker 3: needs to be taken into account at just what pace

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Speaker 3: we can afford to keep doing this.

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Speaker 1: Tom Koots and Tonus makes the point as Energy Minister

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Speaker 1: that the government that the weather or government had brought

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Speaker 1: some diesel generators and they were privatized sold off by

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Speaker 1: the Libs. Do we need more of that? Do we

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Speaker 1: should the government get involved in generation again?

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Speaker 3: I think that the governments to create a playing field

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Speaker 3: where it encourages investors to put their money in here

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Speaker 3: because there's some sense of longevity around policy and security

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Speaker 3: around investment. And I think the point you're making with

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Speaker 3: Ben earlier about thinking beyond the next election cycle is

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Speaker 3: probably the key here.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think that's absolutely right. So you're continuing

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Speaker 1: to lobby government, no doubt on this regarding Gash.

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Speaker 3: We advocate for businesses on a whole range of issues,

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Speaker 3: and energy is certainly one of them. We're speaking to

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Speaker 3: them quite regularly about this. We know that nuclear has

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Speaker 3: been thrown up into the debate again. And Ben you

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Speaker 3: were making earlier it's not necessarily a quick fit.

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Speaker 1: No, it's not.

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Speaker 3: And while there's a moratorium or nuclear, then you also

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Speaker 3: have business is not necessarily considering it has an option

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Speaker 3: to invest in any way. So that's a long way

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Speaker 3: down the track for consideration here.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, all right, Andrew. Worst case situation here

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Speaker 1: if a business has its electricity costs double wages are

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Speaker 1: going up, rents, all of that and rent certainly that

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Speaker 1: is a big one. Insurance, it's all costs. It gets

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Speaker 1: passed onto the consumer. Prices go up as a result

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Speaker 1: of what the business is facing, and profits go right down.

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Speaker 1: It can't operate at a loss otherwise, well it's unsustainable long

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Speaker 1: term outlook. You don't want to be pessimistic, but that's

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Speaker 1: where we're heading. Is business closures.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think Matthew sadly, we've already seen it across

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Speaker 3: certain sectors. We've seen it across retail and hospitality and

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Speaker 3: some construction businesses as well. Made no mistake, this is

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Speaker 3: the impact of a cost of doing business crisis and

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Speaker 3: we're hearing from businesses all the time that those costs

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Speaker 3: are going up, their margins are being squeezed, and unfortunately

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Speaker 3: consumers are facing a cost of living crisis. So they're

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Speaker 3: recorded in the middle of a perfect storm here and

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Speaker 3: the result is that some are going to the wall.

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Speaker 1: And well, we don't want that as much as possible, obviously,

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Speaker 1: Andrew appreciate your time this morning. Thank you. You welcome

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Speaker 1: Coosa Business Chain. But Stephen Patterson is a shadow energy

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Speaker 1: ministry is called in mister Patterson.

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Speaker 4: Good morning, well, good morning messiw Yeah, and it's very

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Speaker 4: sobering news listening to Bend from Nippies because of course,

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Speaker 4: like you, I grew up drinking orange juice from nippies.

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Speaker 4: And you know, it's not only been, but other well

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Speaker 4: known essay food producers that are struggling with sky rocking

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Speaker 4: power bills. And it's a huge concerned because we know

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Speaker 4: that that'll have a direct impact on grocery bills that

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Speaker 4: everyone else pays the supermarkets because these costs have to

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Speaker 4: get passed on. It also impacts on jobs.

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Speaker 3: More and more.

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Speaker 4: Businesses are saying that as has been said, yes, they're

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Speaker 4: worried about wages and rents. But now electricity prices are

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Speaker 4: actually getting up there and being one of the major

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Speaker 4: costs of business, whereas previously they're not. And you know

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Speaker 4: these scale skoraking power bills we're just seen with the

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Speaker 4: recent default market offer. But while it came down by

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Speaker 4: that as one and half percent, overall, since the Labor

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Speaker 4: government's been in charge here in South Australia, electricity bills

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Speaker 4: not only to households but businesses have gone up over

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Speaker 4: thirty percent and so families are paying more for their

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Speaker 4: electricity in South Australia than families are in Brisbane, Melbourne

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Speaker 4: and Sydney. So it's even hard for our businesses to

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Speaker 4: compete domestically as well. They're having to competing at business

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Speaker 4: not paying as much.

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Speaker 1: What are we going to get serious about using gas?

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Speaker 1: We've got it here in great abundance in Australia. We

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Speaker 1: need more gas generation, not in a year five years

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Speaker 1: from now, we need it today to keep prices low.

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Speaker 1: Generators might not like that because they won't get the peaks,

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Speaker 1: but that is exactly what is needed right now. So

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Speaker 1: why don't we just do that?

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Speaker 4: Well, you're spot on Masterew that there needs to be

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Speaker 4: more gas into the market more supply because at the

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Speaker 4: moment there's an imbalance, as we've spoken about previously, where

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Speaker 4: there's more demand and supply because it's been throddled a

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Speaker 4: lack of exploration and gas coming into the market means

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Speaker 4: that process have gone up. That's something that we're giving

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Speaker 4: strong consideration to because we know gases, especially in South Australia,

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Speaker 4: is really important that we have that there, yes, for electricity,

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Speaker 4: but also for directly used in manufacturing as well. There's

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Speaker 4: other businesses where gas is their pispl source of energy

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Speaker 4: and manufacture and those costs are also hurting them. Because

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Speaker 4: of course businesses set up maybe you know, five years

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Speaker 4: ago in Nippy's case, a long time ago and one

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Speaker 4: hundred years ago, and they have their business model based

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Speaker 4: on energy at a certain price. When you get these

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Speaker 4: jumps doubling in a year, they just can't sustain that.

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Speaker 4: And you know, I don't see anything coming from the

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Speaker 4: state government that's going to help there at the moment.

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Speaker 4: On a trajectory of spending seven hundred million dollars on

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Speaker 4: their Hodgen power plant and then themselves are set. It's

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Speaker 4: not targeted at reducing power bills for South Australian households

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Speaker 4: and small businesses.

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Speaker 1: All right, Stephen Patterson, thank you for the call. It

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Speaker 1: is twenty nine to ten on five double A, love

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Speaker 1: to get your point of view. Eight double two to

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Speaker 1: three double O double.

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Speaker 3: Oh.

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Speaker 1: We clearly need more gas. We need it right now

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Speaker 1: and that's the big dift in power prices that will

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Speaker 1: help drive down nipping's power bills, farmers' power bills. As

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Speaker 1: I said earlier in the morning, Rob Brokenshaw, you might

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Speaker 1: have heard him about an hour ago and five double

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Speaker 1: A breakfast talking about what farmers as a president of

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Speaker 1: the Farmers Association here in essay farmers are going through.

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Speaker 1: In his own farm, the power bill has gone from

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Speaker 1: seventy thousand to over one hundred thousand dollars and all

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Speaker 1: he does is milk cows. For goodness sake, it's just

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Speaker 1: crazy what people businesses are paying. And businesses don't forget

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Speaker 1: what keeps the economy going there, what keeps people employed.

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Speaker 1: Extinction rebellion couldn't give us stuff if there was no gas,

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Speaker 1: so that's what they want. They couldn't give us stuff

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Speaker 1: if factories, plants, businesses like nippies closed, because hey, they're

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Speaker 1: saving the planet, one orange at a time. Well, good

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Speaker 1: for them, but you know what, the rest of the

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Speaker 1: world does need it. Society needs it, the economy needs it,

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Speaker 1: and you and I, well we want to buy their

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Speaker 1: products at an affordable price. And it's as simple as that, really,