1 00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:11,039 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to separate bathrooms. We'd like to acknowledge 2 00:00:11,080 --> 00:00:15,560 Speaker 1: the Gadigal people of the Eor nation, the traditional custodians 3 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:18,440 Speaker 1: of this land, and pay our respects to the elders, 4 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:19,919 Speaker 1: both past and present. 5 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:24,160 Speaker 2: And I'm Ali Daddo, I'm cam Dado. We were so 6 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:29,560 Speaker 2: blessed to have Maggie Dent in the studio last week. 7 00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:34,919 Speaker 2: The conversation we couldn't speaking stuff. We're going to cut 8 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:38,800 Speaker 2: it off at forty minutes because she's so full of 9 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:45,720 Speaker 2: wonderful stories and advice and just great information for parents 10 00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:48,560 Speaker 2: and for kids. So we decided to make it a 11 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 2: two parter. 12 00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:51,680 Speaker 1: So if you haven't listened, go back and listen to 13 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:55,320 Speaker 1: the one last week and follow along for this week's episode. 14 00:00:55,720 --> 00:01:03,640 Speaker 2: Enjoy. I have found that, like I love the idea 15 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:07,840 Speaker 2: of planting the seed for me in my parenting with 16 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:11,399 Speaker 2: our kids, it's been if I've planted the seed, it's 17 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:14,680 Speaker 2: actually having the wherewithal to stop there. 18 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:21,200 Speaker 3: Yes, we want a big conversation so much, many conversations. 19 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:26,839 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's it. Many conversations, I think that's yeah. 20 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:31,000 Speaker 2: Little just step by. I call them doable chunks and 21 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:33,039 Speaker 2: just do them in doable chunks rather than if you 22 00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:36,480 Speaker 2: look at that whole big picture, it's really hard, but 23 00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:39,040 Speaker 2: if you break it down into those doable chunks, it 24 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 2: makes it a lot easier. 25 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:43,000 Speaker 3: And also what really is helpful is that you've also 26 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:47,319 Speaker 3: had awkward conversations over many years before they've become a 27 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:50,880 Speaker 3: teen about our expectations and it's going to it could 28 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 3: be a bit bumpy, you know, and I've heard that 29 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 3: there is this is happening, and I just need to 30 00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:58,520 Speaker 3: have a conversation about you know, your private parts or 31 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 3: your body awareness, and I to know have you got 32 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 3: the idea of consent yet? I know you're just going 33 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 3: to have a million conversations. So often there are times 34 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:08,120 Speaker 3: that parents says to me, O, Meggie, So when do 35 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:10,360 Speaker 3: I have the chat to my son about sex? And 36 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:13,560 Speaker 3: I said, how old is he? Fourteen? I went, oh, 37 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:16,040 Speaker 3: given that eighty percent of boys by fourteen have been 38 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 3: watching pornography, I'm a bit concerned. You may have left 39 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:23,639 Speaker 3: it a little later, but start now now. And usually 40 00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:27,400 Speaker 3: with that one, when you start that seed about you know, 41 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:29,960 Speaker 3: sex and all that, I reckon you sow the seed 42 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:32,040 Speaker 3: in the car doing one hundred and ten k an 43 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 3: hour because I can't get out. You're just going to 44 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:38,120 Speaker 3: say something like do you know one day, I hope 45 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:41,280 Speaker 3: you have fantastic sex because it's a fabulous thing to 46 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 3: share your body with another person with joy and enthusiasm, 47 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:48,080 Speaker 3: And you just keep driving. You say nothing else. 48 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:51,120 Speaker 2: Well that's the kids go ah, I don't want. 49 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:53,880 Speaker 3: To know that, right. 50 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 1: The thing that always fascinates me about parents, too, is 51 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:01,520 Speaker 1: that it's like they gotten that they were ever teenager, 52 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:05,160 Speaker 1: and it's like a minute, you did this and you 53 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:07,919 Speaker 1: did that, and you've done way worse than what our 54 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:13,079 Speaker 1: kids doing. Sorry, I'm like and like, remember when you 55 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 1: were a teenager, Remember the actions that you were doing, 56 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:18,960 Speaker 1: the things you were doing. What our kids doing is 57 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:22,839 Speaker 1: completely normal. It's what it's what they're meant to do. 58 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:23,639 Speaker 3: In a way. 59 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 2: So agreed, And so Maggie, just before because my brain 60 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:30,200 Speaker 2: will let this slip through to the keypar you did 61 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 2: say fourteen you might have left a little bit late. 62 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:35,800 Speaker 2: What actually is the age? Is it ten you dropping 63 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:37,560 Speaker 2: that seat ten eleven? 64 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 3: Or what is it even before that? You know, like 65 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:43,960 Speaker 3: think you follow your children's leads, okay, you know that 66 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:46,000 Speaker 3: they'll come to you and say I saw this and 67 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:47,760 Speaker 3: it was a bit gross, so sometimes we have to 68 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 3: let them know. You might see pictures or videos online 69 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:56,800 Speaker 3: that are with people with no clothes on doing things. 70 00:03:56,880 --> 00:03:58,680 Speaker 3: Let me know about that, and we can so you 71 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 3: have the sew a few little seat along the way. 72 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 3: But I think the one about I think sex is 73 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:06,119 Speaker 3: we so often and we think, oh, sex, it's been 74 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:08,520 Speaker 3: covered in school in year five, six and seven. Great, 75 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:11,320 Speaker 3: But I think you could probably remember that most of 76 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 3: the time, you know, they were just putting condoms on 77 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:17,720 Speaker 3: bananas and carrots, which that's actually not sexual intimacy. And 78 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:21,160 Speaker 3: I think we're shifting now in our world that you know, 79 00:04:21,560 --> 00:04:24,720 Speaker 3: you can be sexually intimate with another human with great consent. 80 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:27,679 Speaker 3: You know, that doesn't necessarily have to be the person 81 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:29,960 Speaker 3: you live with for the rest of your life. So 82 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:32,800 Speaker 3: it's shifted. The hook up culture is shifted. And what 83 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:37,599 Speaker 3: we do know is unfortunately the you know, the way 84 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:40,680 Speaker 3: that many of our boys are marinated with this misogynistic 85 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:43,120 Speaker 3: kind of stuff, which is of course the algorithms of 86 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 3: big tech means that developing a very different awareness around 87 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 3: it to what you would have had as a boy, 88 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:53,880 Speaker 3: probably wanting to find where they adult books were in 89 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:56,920 Speaker 3: the newsagent because that was about it does that make sense? 90 00:04:56,960 --> 00:05:02,520 Speaker 3: So we're really counteracting a very different perception of the 91 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 3: role of males and females in intimacy. And I think 92 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:09,719 Speaker 3: that's a big challenge for us, that sense of entitlement, 93 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:13,240 Speaker 3: that sense of you know, you know, that's what And 94 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:15,159 Speaker 3: in the book there were girls that said, this is 95 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:17,559 Speaker 3: just what you have to do nowadays in oral sex 96 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:19,320 Speaker 3: is just what we have to do with the boys 97 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:24,200 Speaker 3: now and I'm going home, excuse me. So it's a 98 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:27,400 Speaker 3: big world. Even though we know statistically they are having 99 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:32,280 Speaker 3: the majority are having sex later many of them are 100 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:36,440 Speaker 3: not drinking and around twenty to twenty three percent I 101 00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:41,640 Speaker 3: heard that from our brilliant researcher recently, just not touching 102 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:46,359 Speaker 3: alcohol to their twenties, whereas that was very different people. So, 103 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:48,560 Speaker 3: you know, as I said, we can't just paint it 104 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:50,919 Speaker 3: all bad. But what we are seeing is an increase 105 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 3: in sexual violence and increase in sexual harassment, particularly in 106 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:58,600 Speaker 3: our schools, towards girls and female teachers, which is at 107 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:01,600 Speaker 3: a different level, you know. I mean there was always 108 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:04,359 Speaker 3: the crazy banter, Hey Hoti, you come and lay your 109 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:07,400 Speaker 3: body against me, all that sort of stuff. Now there 110 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:11,520 Speaker 3: are rape threats, and there are sexual groaning, and there 111 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:14,920 Speaker 3: are boys pushing themselves up against girls and groping them 112 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:19,239 Speaker 3: on stairways. That did not happen about three years ago. 113 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:21,479 Speaker 3: So all of those that are in our school. That's 114 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:25,000 Speaker 3: another reason why female teachers are leaving. So we've got 115 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:28,120 Speaker 3: to we have to be part of that solution. We 116 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:30,560 Speaker 3: can't just rely on the school getting somebody in to 117 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 3: talk about it. We all have to be putting forward 118 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:38,080 Speaker 3: that conversation about respectful relationships, you know, so that they 119 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 3: get an idea that that's actually not okay. But I 120 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:44,680 Speaker 3: don't even know what is okay, you know. And our modeling, 121 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:48,000 Speaker 3: there's no question our modeling and our homes is huge, 122 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:51,479 Speaker 3: but we do both have to have those conversations about 123 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:54,080 Speaker 3: what I expect you to be when you grow up. 124 00:06:54,279 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, and you know, obviously you would know 125 00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:02,359 Speaker 1: that the levels of you know, partner violence is just 126 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:08,040 Speaker 1: you know through the roof at the moment, where do we, like, 127 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:11,640 Speaker 1: what would be your best I mean, obviously you're talking 128 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 1: about modeling at home. Where do we start with our 129 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 1: with our boys? Because you know, we can we can 130 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:21,160 Speaker 1: talk to our girls about consent, but if we've got 131 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:23,280 Speaker 1: a boy and I you know, our youngest has talked 132 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:23,600 Speaker 1: about that. 133 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:24,680 Speaker 3: He's like, oh, he just. 134 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:27,200 Speaker 1: Thought he could wear me down. And he had all 135 00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:30,160 Speaker 1: of his mates telling him that, you know, even dad, 136 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 1: you know, his dad was saying, just keep asking until 137 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:36,320 Speaker 1: she says yes. It's like that's coercive control. So it's like, 138 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 1: how do we shift it away from where we're traveling 139 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:40,560 Speaker 1: with this? 140 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:41,600 Speaker 3: Is it? 141 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:43,360 Speaker 1: Is it a as you said, Is it a whole 142 00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:47,880 Speaker 1: issue within school home society? Do we need a program 143 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:49,920 Speaker 1: in schools where do we go? 144 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:52,840 Speaker 3: Well? I think it's you know, the reason I've become 145 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:55,920 Speaker 3: a boy champion was that there are things we can 146 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:59,720 Speaker 3: do in the first five years around healthy boundaries. That 147 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:01,760 Speaker 3: means that is a no, and a no is no, 148 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 3: so you it'll be a no. So if your boundaries 149 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:08,560 Speaker 3: are weak around whoever's been your significant cares, then you 150 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:10,679 Speaker 3: just think, well you just keep Adam to lay cave. 151 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:14,040 Speaker 3: So it does start quite early, You're quite right. But 152 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 3: it is a specific conversation that you know, and there's 153 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:20,440 Speaker 3: some beautiful stuff out there about consent that you know, 154 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:23,160 Speaker 3: like it's this. It starts really early with when people 155 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:25,040 Speaker 3: want to, you know, grab your baby and give them 156 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:27,720 Speaker 3: a hug and your baby's got their face gone like this, 157 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 3: or you know grandparents who want to pounce in and 158 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:33,280 Speaker 3: hug you without the kids being ready or wanting it. 159 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:35,840 Speaker 3: So there are some really awkward ways that we move 160 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:41,480 Speaker 3: towards that later. But I think that one about about 161 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:44,679 Speaker 3: you know, wearing them down in coercive control, that has 162 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:48,280 Speaker 3: obviously been a part of what they've seen as acceptable. Yeah, 163 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:51,680 Speaker 3: and so what is what often works better is you know, 164 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:54,080 Speaker 3: watching a show, watching a movie, and there are some 165 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:57,760 Speaker 3: teenage based programs, you know, like Heartbreak High and things 166 00:08:57,760 --> 00:08:59,680 Speaker 3: that you could watch with your team and go, wow, 167 00:08:59,840 --> 00:09:03,079 Speaker 3: that's crossing a line. I talk about crossing the line, 168 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:07,000 Speaker 3: and I think that metaphor really resonates the same with banter. 169 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:09,920 Speaker 3: You know, it doesn't camera, and there's times banter and 170 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:13,280 Speaker 3: teasing crosses a line, right, And I think that's a 171 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:16,120 Speaker 3: conversation we have to have many, many times with our boys. 172 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:18,679 Speaker 3: And that's why, you know, when they stop listening to 173 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:20,400 Speaker 3: Mum and dad because they don't know what they're talking 174 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:23,440 Speaker 3: about in this window, that is when we need those 175 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:29,320 Speaker 3: other lighthouse figures who are significant uncles, grandparents, coaches, or 176 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:32,640 Speaker 3: really awesome teachers who you might have a whisper in 177 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:35,640 Speaker 3: their ear, and they will have the conversation for you around. 178 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:37,760 Speaker 3: I really don't like the way that you're speaking to 179 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:39,560 Speaker 3: the girls in the class at the moment. I know 180 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:41,720 Speaker 3: you can do better than that, mate, So we don't 181 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:43,640 Speaker 3: shame them. We got we just so a seved a 182 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:47,920 Speaker 3: positivity because boys respond to that so much more than 183 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:51,720 Speaker 3: they do with punishment and shame. And yet that's still 184 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:55,520 Speaker 3: mostly what they cop and as soon as you push back, 185 00:09:55,600 --> 00:10:00,960 Speaker 3: like nobody, nobody, even a tiny toddler of two likes 186 00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:03,280 Speaker 3: being told what to do, because we had this thing 187 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:07,319 Speaker 3: called counter will. So I think what we keep doing 188 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:09,480 Speaker 3: in the teenage years, we keep telling what we don't 189 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:14,440 Speaker 3: want instead of turning and this is what is a 190 00:10:14,559 --> 00:10:16,920 Speaker 3: much better option, This is a better choice, or this 191 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:20,360 Speaker 3: is a way of saying that, And therefore we show 192 00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:24,040 Speaker 3: them what's better rather than just keep punishing what's not okay, 193 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 3: because technically behaviorism works best for rats. 194 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:41,160 Speaker 2: One of the things that I do struggle with is 195 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:45,079 Speaker 2: in my friendship group. And like when I play golf 196 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:48,960 Speaker 2: and I'm in my foursome and I hear comments from 197 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:52,199 Speaker 2: other golfers, We'll be sitting in there having a beer afterwards, 198 00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 2: and that's the banter that happens. And I have moments 199 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 2: where I've actually had to say, if you're going to 200 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:04,080 Speaker 2: keep going on this line, I'm going to I've got to. 201 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:06,520 Speaker 2: I can't be here for this, I can't be listening. 202 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:09,720 Speaker 2: And unfortunately there's been times where oh, well he's a 203 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:12,280 Speaker 2: dickare Cams a dicka or whatever? And I get I'm 204 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:14,880 Speaker 2: the one on the outer and I'm not invited anymore 205 00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:17,079 Speaker 2: because we've got to watch what we say around him. 206 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:23,080 Speaker 2: And the complaint with men my age who were raised 207 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:28,320 Speaker 2: a certain way by fathers of a certain generation is 208 00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:30,679 Speaker 2: that they're pretty bitter about we can't make the same 209 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:34,480 Speaker 2: jokes anymore. We can't do this, and we can't see 210 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:38,240 Speaker 2: this or behave like that anymore. And it's it's really 211 00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:40,520 Speaker 2: tricky for some guys, I think, because they want to 212 00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:43,359 Speaker 2: they want to have their friendships. 213 00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:45,960 Speaker 3: That's their way. 214 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:51,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and it's it's to do it, but there 215 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:54,319 Speaker 2: is a cost to it if there other people are 216 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 2: unwilling to have a look at it. So this idea 217 00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:05,080 Speaker 2: of planning seeds or it's great and modeling for modeling 218 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:07,520 Speaker 2: that for the younger men coming through, I think it's 219 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:12,440 Speaker 2: really important. It's just a it can be really tricky 220 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:15,199 Speaker 2: and sometimes it's like I don't want to do that anymore. 221 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:20,560 Speaker 3: Also, those social norms are so deep, clear, embedded, and 222 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:23,160 Speaker 3: you'll tend to find you know, we talk about grumpy 223 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:26,960 Speaker 3: old men. You know, there is a perception as men 224 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:29,760 Speaker 3: get older that they get even more resistant to change. 225 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:33,800 Speaker 3: And so in that situation, you're absolutely right, you will 226 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:35,520 Speaker 3: be the woke guy. I'm the guy. 227 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:36,520 Speaker 2: I'm that guy. 228 00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 3: You're the woke guy, right. And what I'm going to 229 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:41,079 Speaker 3: tell you was really good news is that there was 230 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:44,000 Speaker 3: a time that when men met for a beer, they 231 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:48,600 Speaker 3: would never speak about parenting or you know, their kids. 232 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:52,000 Speaker 3: They might say something derogatory about their wife. That was 233 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:53,560 Speaker 3: kind of how the bonding. But I'm going to tell 234 00:12:53,559 --> 00:12:56,480 Speaker 3: you there's a big shift happening and that not only 235 00:12:56,520 --> 00:12:59,760 Speaker 3: are dad's joining up with PRAM groups, walking together, they 236 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:03,000 Speaker 3: meet for coffee and they talk about everything. They're even 237 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:06,520 Speaker 3: talking about their mental health. So I feel that the 238 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:10,800 Speaker 3: older generation you're talking about, sadly, you know, over fifty, 239 00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:13,600 Speaker 3: are gradually they're going to be replaced by a much 240 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:16,199 Speaker 3: more aware you know, you know, like if you've been 241 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:19,520 Speaker 3: to a playground lately because yours are older. Just wander around. 242 00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:23,080 Speaker 3: There aren't any women there. There are dads with babies 243 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:26,000 Speaker 3: tied on and toddlers and just they're out there, right, 244 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:29,800 Speaker 3: And these are the ones who are changing those those 245 00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:34,840 Speaker 3: conversations because they're actually really, you know, really seeking some support. 246 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:37,920 Speaker 3: And I'm you know, one of the most interesting things 247 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:41,200 Speaker 3: is that, you know, when I do a sellout night 248 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:45,280 Speaker 3: for dads, they are hungry to be among other men 249 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:49,520 Speaker 3: who are putting their kids and their partners at the beginning, 250 00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:52,520 Speaker 3: you know, in their life right in the front because 251 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:54,480 Speaker 3: they want to be a different man. And I think 252 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:57,600 Speaker 3: will gradually outgrow it. But it's so interesting that also 253 00:13:57,720 --> 00:13:59,640 Speaker 3: on the good Enough Dad, the podcast where I did 254 00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:03,360 Speaker 3: twenty excepts, oh my god, there were these beautiful moments 255 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:05,960 Speaker 3: when you know, these are men from all walks of 256 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:11,560 Speaker 3: life have been very vulnerable about their muck ups and 257 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:14,600 Speaker 3: their moments where they just thought it's just too hard, 258 00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:18,679 Speaker 3: And what it was that really made them stick is 259 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:21,280 Speaker 3: the love they have for their kids and their partner. Yeah, 260 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:24,440 Speaker 3: and the more that men hear of that, then that 261 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:28,080 Speaker 3: that type of man, I think you'll find starts to 262 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:31,280 Speaker 3: soften around the edges, but it's really it really is 263 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:34,840 Speaker 3: actually happening at a grassroots level, so you kind of, yeah, 264 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:38,120 Speaker 3: there's a new type. I mean sometimes without saying anything, 265 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:41,200 Speaker 3: I think they've spoken to men who said the same 266 00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:43,160 Speaker 3: thing you said, Cam, and they said, I just get 267 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:47,440 Speaker 3: up and I pretend I'm going to the toilet and 268 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:52,000 Speaker 3: I'm just not there and just disappear. So I don't 269 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:55,120 Speaker 3: make a comment about I just leave. Therefore, I'm making 270 00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:59,320 Speaker 3: a silent statement that they you know, guys, they often 271 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:02,440 Speaker 3: can tune in to silence, but when they hear you, 272 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:05,160 Speaker 3: they feel very judged and they get even more defensive. 273 00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:08,760 Speaker 3: But getting up and leaving or just make a yeah 274 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 3: I need to get home. 275 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:12,400 Speaker 2: Yeah I'm a bit more of that guy now where 276 00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:15,720 Speaker 2: I'll just get up and walk away. Because yeah, it's 277 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:18,200 Speaker 2: like you said, no one likes to be told what 278 00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:21,200 Speaker 2: to do. And I set up a thing called my 279 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:23,840 Speaker 2: Men's Team, which was for guys to get together and 280 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:25,760 Speaker 2: do this talk. And you're not allowed to give advice 281 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:28,960 Speaker 2: in the Men's Team unless you asked for it, and 282 00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:31,440 Speaker 2: so it was just that you can only give your 283 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:35,040 Speaker 2: experience about a situation. So you listening, We're learning to 284 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:39,880 Speaker 2: listen basically, and it's great to hear that the shift 285 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:40,440 Speaker 2: is happening. 286 00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:44,160 Speaker 3: It's really good good and especially around mental health as well. 287 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:47,720 Speaker 3: Cam is that because you know, I've worked a lot 288 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:51,040 Speaker 3: around men who struggle after the loss of a partner 289 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:53,920 Speaker 3: or the loss of a child, because that was my specialty. 290 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:57,600 Speaker 3: And one of the things that men told me was 291 00:15:57,600 --> 00:15:59,600 Speaker 3: that I don't want to break down in front of 292 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:04,040 Speaker 3: my wife because I and I, when you dig under it, 293 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:07,720 Speaker 3: it is so wound into social norms that guys think 294 00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:10,120 Speaker 3: I'm meant to be the big protector and defender of 295 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:14,080 Speaker 3: my partner and if I'm vulnerable, I don't think she 296 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:18,720 Speaker 3: could love me. And it was interesting because I had 297 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:21,520 Speaker 3: this chat with Sarah Konovski about mother and our boys, 298 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:23,920 Speaker 3: and I shared this, how you know, I spoke about 299 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:26,800 Speaker 3: a couple of the men who who just found it 300 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:30,240 Speaker 3: really hard to tell their wife as she was dying 301 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:33,440 Speaker 3: in the last days of her life that he loved her, 302 00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:37,520 Speaker 3: and it just used to get stuck. And after her 303 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:40,160 Speaker 3: funeral he was so angry at himself. And I said, look, 304 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:42,640 Speaker 3: she knew that because you turned up every day, you 305 00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 3: were there every day, and your two beautiful sons could 306 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:50,840 Speaker 3: say the words you couldn't say, and that that's you are, 307 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:53,720 Speaker 3: You've done it right. And then what happened was I 308 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:56,200 Speaker 3: kept getting all these emails and messages of how many 309 00:16:56,280 --> 00:16:59,520 Speaker 3: guys are in a car with either their wife or 310 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:02,640 Speaker 3: their daughter had to pull over because they were sobbing 311 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 3: because something that had happened to them when they were 312 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:09,359 Speaker 3: a little boy that they were punished with they'd never 313 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:13,159 Speaker 3: shared because they felt they would just be looking like 314 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:15,679 Speaker 3: they weren't strong enough for them and that a woman 315 00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:19,119 Speaker 3: couldn't love me if she knew the mistake I made. 316 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:22,520 Speaker 3: And once that starts shifting, we have these much more 317 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:28,800 Speaker 3: powerful and stronger, genuinely intimate relationships because no one is perfect, 318 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:31,720 Speaker 3: and if we have someone who can hold a safe 319 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:34,560 Speaker 3: space for us as we share those big, dark moments. 320 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:37,119 Speaker 3: It's not about being tough, and I can tell you 321 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:38,880 Speaker 3: that there are a lot of really tough women out 322 00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:42,080 Speaker 3: there who struggle with the same sap not because of 323 00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:45,440 Speaker 3: what gender you're in. It's because what story I've been 324 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:50,520 Speaker 3: told about how I deal with failure and disappointment and culture. 325 00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:53,719 Speaker 1: Culture is pushes out on boys. You know you're the 326 00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:55,560 Speaker 1: man of the house now at the age of eight, 327 00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:57,199 Speaker 1: because dad's away. No he's not. 328 00:17:57,359 --> 00:17:59,120 Speaker 3: He's not the man at the house. He's an eight 329 00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:02,920 Speaker 3: year old boy. He doesn't have to look another half enough. 330 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:04,080 Speaker 3: And you're a pussy. 331 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:07,560 Speaker 1: You're gay if you cry like wow, I mean that's 332 00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:09,840 Speaker 1: just said over and over again. But I was just 333 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:12,480 Speaker 1: thinking of that one about that's a lot of my generation, 334 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:14,000 Speaker 1: that's all your generation. 335 00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:16,479 Speaker 2: That's how I got that. Yeah, dad went away and 336 00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:18,560 Speaker 2: I was eight and there were four brothers and the 337 00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:19,760 Speaker 2: sister and you are. 338 00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:23,560 Speaker 1: You know so No, but one of our favorite shows. 339 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:24,919 Speaker 1: Did you ever watch Ted Lasso? 340 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:25,919 Speaker 3: Oh? 341 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:30,919 Speaker 1: Right, like that main character did more I think to 342 00:18:31,119 --> 00:18:34,680 Speaker 1: prove the importance of having a panic attack and crying 343 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:38,399 Speaker 1: and the kindness he showed and the vulnerability. It was 344 00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:41,600 Speaker 1: just so beautiful and I think so many people connected 345 00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:45,560 Speaker 1: on however they connected. But what a beautiful example of 346 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:49,960 Speaker 1: a man. And he was not any less attractive or. 347 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:55,840 Speaker 3: Strong war he also demonstrated incredible integrity. Yeah, he was 348 00:18:55,880 --> 00:19:00,480 Speaker 3: who he was, and his values around respecting others and 349 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:02,719 Speaker 3: things were just it was Yeah, I must have met. 350 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:05,160 Speaker 3: It was a good tonic, wasn't that. They can't watched 351 00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:07,159 Speaker 3: the first one during COVID, so it was exactly what 352 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:11,720 Speaker 3: I needed was a storm of ted. 353 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:15,480 Speaker 1: Yes, how many people loved it really good. 354 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:19,959 Speaker 3: I think that's a challenge that sometimes we were, especially 355 00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:21,520 Speaker 3: when we've got teens and then they're all in this 356 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:24,400 Speaker 3: crazy state, the pressure on them, and that's what came 357 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:26,320 Speaker 3: from so many of the voices from the boys and 358 00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:29,520 Speaker 3: the girls. Isn't that interesting? About forty percent of the 359 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:32,280 Speaker 3: survey were from boys. I just put it out for 360 00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:35,040 Speaker 3: any team, which is That's what I'm saying. There's a 361 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:38,240 Speaker 3: shift and boys wanting to be heard, and they feel 362 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:43,960 Speaker 3: that the pressure on them, you know, to achieve grades 363 00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:49,120 Speaker 3: or awards that make their parents feel like they can 364 00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:52,879 Speaker 3: love them more that they are. They're aware of it, 365 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:55,640 Speaker 3: and there are several that said that, you know, I'm 366 00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:58,959 Speaker 3: in a really expensive school. They keep telling me how 367 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 3: much it co shit cake me. That's a big burden 368 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:17,320 Speaker 3: for me to carry, And I'm going, oh. 369 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:15,800 Speaker 2: What do teens specifically need from their parents to grow 370 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:18,760 Speaker 2: into emotionally intelligent people? 371 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:21,560 Speaker 3: You know? Oh, that's beautiful, And the first thing they 372 00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:25,880 Speaker 3: need is that absolutely need to know that their parents 373 00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:28,040 Speaker 3: are going to have their back no matter what. That's 374 00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:31,040 Speaker 3: a really important one because we want to be able 375 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:34,000 Speaker 3: to know when we muck up, we've always got a 376 00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:36,600 Speaker 3: safe base of land. There's no question that resilience is 377 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:40,400 Speaker 3: actually about relationships, not about capacity. And also that we've 378 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:43,640 Speaker 3: over our childhood we've been modeled those moments with our 379 00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:46,720 Speaker 3: parents of what happens when things get hard, that we 380 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:49,960 Speaker 3: gather together, that we don't blame and shame, we just 381 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:52,600 Speaker 3: come together and work out a plan to go forward. 382 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:57,160 Speaker 3: That's incredibly important. I think we celebrate moments of failure 383 00:20:57,160 --> 00:20:59,280 Speaker 3: and muck up the failed test or whatever it is. 384 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:03,800 Speaker 3: We just don't make it a sign there's something wrong 385 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:07,880 Speaker 3: with you. Because the three most common things to come 386 00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:12,200 Speaker 3: from a team who's contemplating dying by suicide is no 387 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:16,200 Speaker 3: one cares, so we can fix that, I don't matter, 388 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:22,000 Speaker 3: and they be better off without me. Right, So they're 389 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:24,679 Speaker 3: really easy things for parents to So I keep thinking 390 00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:27,679 Speaker 3: sometimes in this journey, can we all just lighten the 391 00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:31,239 Speaker 3: hell up? We focus on having more fun? Can we 392 00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:36,480 Speaker 3: eat more cupcakes and pancakes and have fun movie nights? 393 00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:38,480 Speaker 3: Can we play games together like we did when they 394 00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:42,720 Speaker 3: were younger? Just around the edges to know that we 395 00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:46,560 Speaker 3: can shift the neurochemicals that are causing them stress by 396 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:51,320 Speaker 3: the choices we make, and I think that's an incredibly 397 00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:54,360 Speaker 3: important part as we move forward into that space. They 398 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:56,159 Speaker 3: also don't want you to shoot on them. You know, 399 00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:58,520 Speaker 3: it's so easy, isn't it. They don't want any lecturing, 400 00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:00,600 Speaker 3: they don't want any shooting, and they don't always want 401 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:02,520 Speaker 3: you to tell them what not to do. They're the 402 00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:04,800 Speaker 3: three main things that came up. Stop shooting on us. 403 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:08,240 Speaker 3: And also we just we just want to know that 404 00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:13,520 Speaker 3: you can genuinely care for us and also my friends, 405 00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:17,919 Speaker 3: so that notion of a tribe where I want you 406 00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:19,679 Speaker 3: to know that you don't just care for me, but 407 00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:22,840 Speaker 3: you care for my you know, my friends, mine much 408 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:26,359 Speaker 3: doesn't matter what it is that sometimes having them around 409 00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:29,760 Speaker 3: for a feed, or feeding them randomly, or picking them 410 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:32,520 Speaker 3: up and giving them rides home, you are showing and 411 00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:38,040 Speaker 3: modeling something really profound in as they go forward in life, 412 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:41,520 Speaker 3: that they will value those connections and know that those 413 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:45,200 Speaker 3: connections make a difference because we are a social species 414 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:48,359 Speaker 3: and we're meant to be connected to other humans. And 415 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:52,880 Speaker 3: when we facilitate that for them, especially after major friendship 416 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:57,960 Speaker 3: breakups and heartaches and all those things, it's huge, absolutely huge. 417 00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:01,600 Speaker 1: How do we know our child is being bullied, what 418 00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:04,480 Speaker 1: are the signs and how as parents do we step 419 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:05,960 Speaker 1: in and help that child. 420 00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:08,359 Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a long list of those things. There's usually 421 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:12,880 Speaker 3: changes in behavior that gradually happen over time. So you'll 422 00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:15,240 Speaker 3: find that they will start withdrawing a bit more into 423 00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:18,879 Speaker 3: their bedrooms. They will be withdrawing from normal activities. Sometimes 424 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:23,359 Speaker 3: it impacts that whether they're eating sometimes it's that, or 425 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:26,280 Speaker 3: sometimes they start not wanting to hang out with their 426 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:29,639 Speaker 3: real friends, like you'll notice the shift in that. But 427 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:31,440 Speaker 3: then you've got to look at their sleep. If they're 428 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:33,320 Speaker 3: walking around the house at all hours of the night, 429 00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:37,199 Speaker 3: you can trust your gut instinct something's not okay. And 430 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:39,680 Speaker 3: that's why I keep saying, we just so aceved, you 431 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:41,840 Speaker 3: don't seem yourself. Can we have a chat to see 432 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:45,800 Speaker 3: what's going down? Just so Asceeved, you don't seem yourself okay. 433 00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:48,439 Speaker 3: But the big one I think in all of this 434 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:52,399 Speaker 3: is that the bullying that we used to experience was 435 00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:55,800 Speaker 3: face to face. Yes, So what's happening now, of course, 436 00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:58,840 Speaker 3: is they're really frightened. You're going to take their phone 437 00:23:58,880 --> 00:23:59,280 Speaker 3: off them? 438 00:23:59,400 --> 00:23:59,640 Speaker 1: Yes? 439 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:02,520 Speaker 3: If I tell you that it's going on downline rather 440 00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:04,399 Speaker 3: than coming to me and saying, look, these girls are 441 00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:08,600 Speaker 3: being really awful and they can be so cruel that 442 00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:13,639 Speaker 3: mum and dad might race out and confront them or 443 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:17,480 Speaker 3: confront the parent or make it worse, which it often does. 444 00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:20,320 Speaker 3: So they just want to push it under. I don't 445 00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:22,440 Speaker 3: want to bother them, I don't want to upset them, 446 00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:25,800 Speaker 3: and then they just as you can see that, there's 447 00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:28,080 Speaker 3: a point where we just can't deal with the pain 448 00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:33,119 Speaker 3: of and it is profound, you know, because your capacity 449 00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:37,120 Speaker 3: to see it logically is impaired because you're only young. Yeah, 450 00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:40,040 Speaker 3: I can't see. And also the pylon that can happen 451 00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:43,439 Speaker 3: is all of the others in that environment have to 452 00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:45,439 Speaker 3: kind of be a part of it to stay in 453 00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:48,320 Speaker 3: the group. So it's tied up with so much, you know, 454 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:54,239 Speaker 3: cognitive immaturity, and often when we confront those sorts of 455 00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:56,720 Speaker 3: girls at different times, I've worked through some of these things. 456 00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:59,639 Speaker 3: In the early days, we're just having fun, but of 457 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:04,000 Speaker 3: course it's actually you know, being there's being mean, saying 458 00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:05,919 Speaker 3: something mean, and there's being a bit nasty, but the 459 00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:10,600 Speaker 3: bullying is an intention to cause harm that's repeated, and 460 00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:12,919 Speaker 3: I think we have to have conversations in our homes 461 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:16,040 Speaker 3: about the difference and being you know, if it happens 462 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:19,640 Speaker 3: to another person, you know, step forward and see if 463 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:21,959 Speaker 3: we can you know, create some sort of an ally 464 00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:25,360 Speaker 3: for that kid. And there are times that we do, 465 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:27,479 Speaker 3: you know, we do need to move schools. We do 466 00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:29,320 Speaker 3: need to be able to bring them home for a while, 467 00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:33,520 Speaker 3: because it is the potential in that window when they're 468 00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:38,320 Speaker 3: biologically wide to be developing friendships and connections. It can 469 00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:42,520 Speaker 3: absolutely have that fatal consequence. And you know, at the 470 00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:44,880 Speaker 3: end of the day, one of the things that schools 471 00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:47,040 Speaker 3: can struggle with is the fact that when all that 472 00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:50,639 Speaker 3: cyber bullying is happening at nights technically not during school time, 473 00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:54,840 Speaker 3: but the playout is happening at school time, right right, 474 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:57,359 Speaker 3: and so often you know, that's where there's a bit 475 00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:01,160 Speaker 3: of a mix up. Some schools handle it brilliantly. However, 476 00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:04,879 Speaker 3: there's also that culture you know that we've talked about, 477 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:07,160 Speaker 3: you know, no bullying war happens, and I think, don't 478 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:10,520 Speaker 3: think of a blue elephant. We're not encouraging you know, 479 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:15,000 Speaker 3: friendships or being civil or being respectful. You know, it's 480 00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:18,480 Speaker 3: so many of those conversations need to happen in our home, 481 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:21,040 Speaker 3: because you know, it can be your kid that's doing it, 482 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:23,359 Speaker 3: and that might have started off as a bit of 483 00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:25,879 Speaker 3: a thing that it's then developed and then they can't 484 00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:27,960 Speaker 3: get out of it. Because I work with a boy 485 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:31,120 Speaker 3: that was a bully at a school, and I did 486 00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:33,520 Speaker 3: some very you know in my class. I make sure 487 00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:36,359 Speaker 3: everyone has lots of paired conversations to get to know 488 00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:39,520 Speaker 3: each other in the class, very short, bit funny, and 489 00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:43,680 Speaker 3: over time that boy actually you know, kids would sit 490 00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:46,160 Speaker 3: with him whereas no one wanted to go near him, 491 00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:48,159 Speaker 3: and I realized he wasn't who we thought he was. 492 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:52,160 Speaker 3: But that takes some you know energy, and a lot 493 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:55,240 Speaker 3: of teachers and school leaders just have not got the 494 00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:59,119 Speaker 3: time to follow through everything even if they hear it. 495 00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:02,120 Speaker 3: But every child throw it up. Yeah, yeah, they cover 496 00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:04,680 Speaker 3: it up. There's so many ways they hide all their 497 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:08,600 Speaker 3: awful trolling online. But we have to teach them about 498 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:10,600 Speaker 3: how to block it. And the e Safety Commissioner has 499 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:13,680 Speaker 3: fabulous stuff. You go straight to that site. We take evidence, 500 00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:15,960 Speaker 3: we keep it when we teach our kids to do 501 00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:18,719 Speaker 3: that when they first get a phone. We've actually got 502 00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:21,720 Speaker 3: a chance of making these kids accountable earlier. 503 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:25,160 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, I mean and what you're talking about too. 504 00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:29,399 Speaker 2: I love what you said about mattering that have the 505 00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:33,080 Speaker 2: kids know that they matter and in that situation that 506 00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:35,560 Speaker 2: you may, as a parent have to pull your child 507 00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:40,320 Speaker 2: out or extricate them from a situation, that's further enhancing 508 00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:43,680 Speaker 2: to them that they will know that they matter to you, 509 00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:47,600 Speaker 2: You are that they are important to you. And I 510 00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:51,040 Speaker 2: guess the fine line with that is is as a parent, 511 00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:52,240 Speaker 2: when do I step in? 512 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,679 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, they're stepping in. Is we go to the 513 00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:58,560 Speaker 3: school and we get the school leadership in the school 514 00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:01,360 Speaker 3: student services team to be the ones that do the process, 515 00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:05,400 Speaker 3: and we do not step in to confront. Either way, 516 00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:07,359 Speaker 3: it doesn't matter. You know, if you have the best 517 00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:09,920 Speaker 3: intentions in the world, you're going into bat for your kid, 518 00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:12,399 Speaker 3: and there's a chance you're going to be emotionally volatile 519 00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:16,960 Speaker 3: and you can make everything seriously worse for everybody. So again, 520 00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:19,879 Speaker 3: even though it makes sense, and you may even know 521 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:23,600 Speaker 3: them casually, yeah, what their child's doing is not that 522 00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:27,199 Speaker 3: adults you know, you know they're not doing it. Yeah, 523 00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:29,760 Speaker 3: And they may not even know it's happening either. And 524 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,639 Speaker 3: then you've leapt in and kind of threatened, and you 525 00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:35,000 Speaker 3: know it's just not, it's just not mature behavior. 526 00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:38,920 Speaker 1: We went through our own experience with one of our kids, 527 00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:42,120 Speaker 1: and that was during COVID, which is exactly what you 528 00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:45,719 Speaker 1: were saying, because they were not they weren't physically in school, 529 00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:50,320 Speaker 1: so everything was online learning. So for that for the parent, 530 00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:52,640 Speaker 1: for the sorry, for the school to be taking action 531 00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:55,040 Speaker 1: on that was it was. It was outside of school hours. 532 00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:58,200 Speaker 1: They are on totally on the screens all the time. 533 00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:02,080 Speaker 1: I mean that mental health issue. Yes, kids are still 534 00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:06,040 Speaker 1: struggling with that time. Aren't they a certain age cap 535 00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:09,440 Speaker 1: who what they at that age? No, she was in 536 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:13,960 Speaker 1: year nine, which was like, yeah, the perfect storm of events, 537 00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:18,640 Speaker 1: you know, COVID, online bullying and yeah, yeah it was 538 00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:22,400 Speaker 1: really rough when it is We did really really. 539 00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:25,080 Speaker 3: Kind of say that we do see a lot of 540 00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:28,880 Speaker 3: bullying with growing ups. Right, you look at what happens 541 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:31,080 Speaker 3: in parliament, you see what you know, there are growing 542 00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:33,280 Speaker 3: ups who do really poor behavior. So we really needed 543 00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:35,200 Speaker 3: to call some of that out as we go forward. 544 00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:38,800 Speaker 1: I think, yeah, for sure, for sure, what's been the 545 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:42,520 Speaker 1: most rewarding part of your work with family and children 546 00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:43,320 Speaker 1: over the years. 547 00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:47,760 Speaker 3: Oh, look, it happens. Just yeah, it's beautiful because I've 548 00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:50,240 Speaker 3: been around so long. Yeah, every now and then I 549 00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:52,960 Speaker 3: run into somebody who recognizes me. It comes up and 550 00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:54,640 Speaker 3: gives me a big hug and says, oh my god, 551 00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:59,920 Speaker 3: you saved my life. Particularly the ones who mums have died, Yeah, 552 00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:03,720 Speaker 3: and I became their like surrogate mum figure. They just 553 00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:06,800 Speaker 3: followed what I said, and they've raised these exceptional kids. 554 00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:11,120 Speaker 3: Or the ones the moms particularly who didn't kind of 555 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:14,800 Speaker 3: understand their boys and then get out with mothering that went, 556 00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:17,440 Speaker 3: oh man, they're a lot more sensitive than I thought, 557 00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:20,920 Speaker 3: who have now got these wonderful teenage boys with a 558 00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:25,040 Speaker 3: great relationship. And the other one that's really really special, 559 00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:28,960 Speaker 3: I think is when I run into a lot of 560 00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:32,760 Speaker 3: the dads who now want to hug and their selfie 561 00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:36,000 Speaker 3: and they tell me that in their home they look 562 00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:38,760 Speaker 3: at each other when the schmick's going down and just go, 563 00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:42,400 Speaker 3: what would Maggie do? Yes, let's just go and put 564 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:44,680 Speaker 3: a kettle on, Let's go and eat chocolate, Let's just 565 00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:47,760 Speaker 3: go for a walk around the backyard. What would Maggie do? 566 00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:50,000 Speaker 3: And that really does kind of because it's that common 567 00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:52,520 Speaker 3: sense thing that you know, at the end of the day, 568 00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:55,600 Speaker 3: you know, stuff happens that is just hard work. But 569 00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:58,360 Speaker 3: when we can co parents and kind of no, we're 570 00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:00,880 Speaker 3: both trying hard and we're gonna have good days and 571 00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:03,360 Speaker 3: bad days, that's pretty special. 572 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:07,800 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I love that we need T shirts. 573 00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:12,200 Speaker 2: There was that bracelet that the Christians were wearing, you know, 574 00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:14,840 Speaker 2: w W j D. What would Jesus do? 575 00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:19,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, what would Maggie do? No? I think I've got 576 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:22,800 Speaker 3: the T shirt that says, no matter what, no matter. 577 00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:25,240 Speaker 1: What, you loved you I loved no matter what. 578 00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:28,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, I love no matter what, nothing, no matter what. 579 00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:30,720 Speaker 3: We're just going to have to get some merch, don't we. 580 00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:36,080 Speaker 2: Guys, Yeah, it would be great. Got one question for you. 581 00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:38,600 Speaker 2: I'll pull this up just from one of our listeners. 582 00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:44,800 Speaker 2: One of our listeners wrote, what do you say to 583 00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:48,000 Speaker 2: all the parents that here you speak and love your 584 00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:51,920 Speaker 2: message so much, but they feel guilt for the mistakes 585 00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:54,000 Speaker 2: that they've made along the way? 586 00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:57,360 Speaker 3: Oh gully, if they haven't been to one of my seminars, 587 00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:00,640 Speaker 3: I haven't heard all mine, as dakes. I think the 588 00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:03,000 Speaker 3: more that you know there is we're all going to 589 00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:05,560 Speaker 3: hold some guilt. There's no question we wish we'd meet 590 00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:08,200 Speaker 3: and the perfect parent in the moment, but oh my God, 591 00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:12,200 Speaker 3: my cockups is so long and extended. And what's really 592 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:15,680 Speaker 3: beautiful is that especially when I own, you know, some 593 00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:18,200 Speaker 3: of the main ones, particularly for getting book week because 594 00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:21,920 Speaker 3: it's an international sport now and I make fun of 595 00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:25,240 Speaker 3: those things. Apparently it makes their guilt disappear again. So 596 00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:28,440 Speaker 3: please just put the guilt stick down. Put it down. 597 00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:30,920 Speaker 3: You know, we've had a day where we forgot and 598 00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:33,400 Speaker 3: I even forgot. We left one at the pool once. 599 00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:35,880 Speaker 3: Fortunately was a state swimmer, so he didn't drown, but 600 00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:38,400 Speaker 3: I thought Dad had him. Dad thought I had him, 601 00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:40,760 Speaker 3: like you know, at the end of the day. Yeah, 602 00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:43,560 Speaker 3: it's just how life goes. But do a head count, probably, 603 00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:46,400 Speaker 3: But I am going to say, you know, every parent 604 00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:49,200 Speaker 3: has got regrets. But if we focus on what we've 605 00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:52,440 Speaker 3: done that that's worked. We focus on the joyful moments, 606 00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:56,560 Speaker 3: the focus on the fun, we can let the guilt go. Yeah, 607 00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:58,440 Speaker 3: so that's my that's my suggestion. 608 00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:01,800 Speaker 1: And it's never too late, is it to have healing 609 00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:04,040 Speaker 1: as well? But no matter how old you're. 610 00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:08,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, as I say, the rupture, we all have ruptures. Yeah, 611 00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:10,760 Speaker 3: we can come back in now and just go, holy heck, 612 00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:13,120 Speaker 3: that wasn't me In a very good moment, I'm going 613 00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:15,680 Speaker 3: to have a do over. I'm going to try and 614 00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:18,960 Speaker 3: do a little bit better around that. Yeah, absolutely, which 615 00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:21,280 Speaker 3: wasn't something that happened in previous generations. 616 00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:24,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Yeah, Maggie, you make me feel like 617 00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:28,760 Speaker 1: it's so much better about my parenting. I got my kids, 618 00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:32,080 Speaker 1: and it's like, oh, what would Maggie do? Maggie makes 619 00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:32,800 Speaker 1: you feel better? 620 00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:37,120 Speaker 3: Yeah. I always recommend a really good block of high 621 00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:40,040 Speaker 3: quality fruit nut chocolate in the bedroom for those moments 622 00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:41,320 Speaker 3: because it is a health food. 623 00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:47,960 Speaker 2: Got it your health, the sweetness, and it. 624 00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:50,560 Speaker 3: Creates serotonin, so you'll come out a better parent. 625 00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:54,520 Speaker 1: Now it says I've got this written down that your 626 00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:56,280 Speaker 1: this is your final parenting. 627 00:33:56,360 --> 00:34:01,040 Speaker 3: Vinyl locked the gate. You have no more parents shutting up. 628 00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:03,960 Speaker 3: I might write fiction, but I feel it's time to 629 00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:06,800 Speaker 3: hand a batton over to all the other educators coming up, 630 00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:08,960 Speaker 3: some of them who I really love and respect. So 631 00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:11,960 Speaker 3: as an old wise crone, it's time to hand over 632 00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:14,560 Speaker 3: the baton. And I feel really good about it because 633 00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:17,320 Speaker 3: I turned seventy in a few months, so it felt 634 00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:20,319 Speaker 3: like a good time. Ten's a good number. We love 635 00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:21,560 Speaker 3: the mighty fine number. 636 00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:25,680 Speaker 1: Train's going help me, help my teens. Supporting our teens 637 00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:29,799 Speaker 1: through tough times? Is your your latest and last book 638 00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:33,400 Speaker 1: on parenting, because there's a brilliant library of them. So 639 00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:34,440 Speaker 1: thank you so. 640 00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:39,680 Speaker 3: Much, thank you for having a chat with me. I 641 00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:41,600 Speaker 3: really looked at you guys from a distance and go 642 00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:43,320 Speaker 3: and you've done some fabulous stuff. 643 00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:46,160 Speaker 1: Well done, Thank you, Thank you so much. We've so 644 00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:51,600 Speaker 1: enjoyed this chat with you today. Wonderful. Thanks for your time, mate, 645 00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:56,920 Speaker 1: Maggie superhero, superhero cheers. 646 00:34:57,160 --> 00:35:00,359 Speaker 3: You're the one who called me a train, remember get 647 00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:01,040 Speaker 3: on the train. 648 00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:08,879 Speaker 1: Well that's the end of our two partera with Maggie Dent, 649 00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:10,960 Speaker 1: which could have been a ten part. 650 00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:16,000 Speaker 2: I love her grace. She would say, you know what 651 00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:18,600 Speaker 2: I've done ten books. You don't need to hear from 652 00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:21,880 Speaker 2: me anymore. There's a whole lot of new yeah coming 653 00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:24,080 Speaker 2: up from incredibly insightful people. 654 00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:29,239 Speaker 1: And that is insightful in itself. She knows about herself 655 00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:30,959 Speaker 1: and also without ego. 656 00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:33,799 Speaker 2: Yeah, because she is the Queen of common sense Yeah, 657 00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:38,719 Speaker 2: which was absolutely on has been on show for the 658 00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:41,840 Speaker 2: last two of these episodes that we've spoken to her. 659 00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:44,799 Speaker 1: I mean, I really mean that, like I feel I 660 00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:48,759 Speaker 1: feel like we did we did good as parents like, 661 00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:51,200 Speaker 1: I'm like all those things that I've felt guilt over 662 00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:56,400 Speaker 1: and worried over, I'm like, you know, it's okay, You're okay. 663 00:35:56,680 --> 00:35:56,839 Speaker 3: Look. 664 00:35:56,880 --> 00:36:01,040 Speaker 1: I so hope you've enjoyed our double set with Maggie. 665 00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:02,520 Speaker 3: We sure have. 666 00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:05,640 Speaker 1: You can get all of her books, but her last 667 00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:08,760 Speaker 1: one is help me Help my teens, supporting our teens 668 00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:11,239 Speaker 1: through tough times, and you may just learn a lot 669 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:15,319 Speaker 1: about yourself as well. I did, Yeah did you? 670 00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:17,000 Speaker 3: I did corrupt. 671 00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:19,600 Speaker 2: It all right, we'll catch up with the next time 672 00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:20,560 Speaker 2: on separate bathroom. 673 00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:21,440 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.