WEBVTT - Credlin | 8 September 0:00:01.780 --> 0:00:07.420 Peter Credlin, live from News 24. 0:00:07.600 --> 0:00:09.889 Good evening. Welcome to the program. Here's what's coming up 0:00:09.910 --> 0:00:12.969 tonight on Credlin. Tonight, Labor in a bind. Chris Minns 0:00:13.110 --> 0:00:17.030 argues against the federal plan to keep the tobacco excise 0:00:17.070 --> 0:00:20.360 where it is. The coalition ramping up pressure in the chamber. 0:00:20.880 --> 0:00:23.040 And the health minister, well, he's more concerned with the 0:00:23.079 --> 0:00:27.000 data than the damage to small business. Labor unveils its 0:00:27.060 --> 0:00:29.680 digital duty of care as it doubles down on its bid, 0:00:29.720 --> 0:00:33.100 it says, to stop harm on the internet. But critics 0:00:33.159 --> 0:00:36.400 aren't convinced. They say this is the slippery slope to censorship. 0:00:36.960 --> 0:00:39.260 I'll explain what it all means in just a moment 0:00:39.440 --> 0:00:43.160 and Labor's history here as well. We'll cross to London 0:00:43.180 --> 0:00:46.180 where reports are that flying the Union Jack in multicultural 0:00:46.240 --> 0:00:50.860 Birmingham will land you in jail. Critics are angry and 0:00:50.900 --> 0:00:53.840 desperate to protect, they say, the British culture they fear 0:00:54.280 --> 0:00:58.260 is being lost. And the One Nation leader in Victoria, 0:00:58.420 --> 0:01:02.690 a fierce defence tonight from Warren Pickering, despite allegations that 0:01:02.730 --> 0:01:06.090 have dogged him in recent days. I said last night 0:01:06.130 --> 0:01:08.910 this has got the potential to only further lock in 0:01:08.970 --> 0:01:12.510 party supporters rather than repel them. 0:01:13.470 --> 0:01:15.750 But when I talk about cultivating talent from the real 0:01:15.800 --> 0:01:19.800 world to represent the Victorian people, this is what I mean. 0:01:20.459 --> 0:01:21.700 People with lived experience. 0:01:23.360 --> 0:01:25.720 People that refuse to be a victim of their own past. 0:01:26.190 --> 0:01:29.929 Now, without Warren there through my young age as the eldest, 0:01:31.090 --> 0:01:32.709 our shoulders would have been a lot worse. 0:01:32.569 --> 0:01:33.010 Than they were. 0:01:35.209 --> 0:01:36.610 I'll come back to that in a moment because it 0:01:36.650 --> 0:01:39.450 was a seismic press conference late this afternoon. But first, 0:01:40.080 --> 0:01:42.179 if you think Labor's new digital duty of care is 0:01:42.220 --> 0:01:46.080 about protecting children online, think again. After all, we already 0:01:46.120 --> 0:01:48.480 have in place a ban on social media for those 0:01:48.700 --> 0:01:51.920 under the age of 16. If children are not being 0:01:51.960 --> 0:01:54.420 protected under current laws, then it's up to the government 0:01:54.440 --> 0:01:57.740 to make them tougher or to start fining the tech 0:01:57.800 --> 0:02:02.580 companies as they've repeatedly threatened they would do but never have. No, 0:02:03.240 --> 0:02:07.720 this new bill circulated today is about controlling what adults see, 0:02:08.220 --> 0:02:11.180 hear and read. And we know that because this bill 0:02:11.240 --> 0:02:14.780 comes with a long Labor history that goes back as 0:02:14.870 --> 0:02:19.330 far as the Gillard era. Now, let me explain. In 0:02:19.389 --> 0:02:22.750 March 2013, in the dying days of the Gillard government, 0:02:23.290 --> 0:02:27.490 Labor introduced a highly controversial package of six media reform 0:02:27.510 --> 0:02:31.290 bills that at the time critics labelled an assault on 0:02:31.389 --> 0:02:35.350 free speech and press freedom, a form of state censorship, 0:02:35.810 --> 0:02:39.100 even some said. At the heart of the Gillard reforms 0:02:39.200 --> 0:02:41.770 was the creation of what was then called the Public 0:02:41.970 --> 0:02:48.910 Interest Media Advocate, a single government-appointed bureaucrat charged with overseeing 0:02:48.970 --> 0:02:52.850 new standards for press and online media, as well as 0:02:52.889 --> 0:02:58.300 a whole new regime to protect so-called media diversity. Well, 0:02:58.320 --> 0:03:00.560 the backlash was swift and it wasn't just from the 0:03:00.600 --> 0:03:04.470 media industry. Nor was it criticism from those you might 0:03:04.530 --> 0:03:07.970 expect to be against this draconian attack on free speech. 0:03:08.690 --> 0:03:13.220 Left-wing politicians like the independent Andrew Wilkie vociferously opposed the 0:03:13.240 --> 0:03:18.700 Gillard bills. So too global watchdogs like the International Press Institute, 0:03:19.260 --> 0:03:24.139 which strongly criticised the government's attempt to unduly interfere in 0:03:24.180 --> 0:03:29.020 media independence. With almost no friends to support her attempt 0:03:29.040 --> 0:03:33.250 to censor the media, the bulk of Gillard's contentious changes 0:03:33.320 --> 0:03:38.750 were eventually dumped. But Labor play a long game because 0:03:38.790 --> 0:03:42.310 here we are 13 years later watching them try and 0:03:42.370 --> 0:03:46.610 do it all over again, only this time cutting enough 0:03:46.650 --> 0:03:49.250 to cover it all in the cloak of child protection, 0:03:49.850 --> 0:03:52.550 a lesson they've learned well from the unions who use 0:03:52.570 --> 0:03:55.760 the umbrella of safety to to get what they want 0:03:56.140 --> 0:04:00.400 from employers. Just listen to this question from our political editor, 0:04:00.520 --> 0:04:04.160 Andrew Clennell, at the PM's press conference today, because I 0:04:04.200 --> 0:04:07.660 want you to watch how Albanese fails to answer it, 0:04:08.280 --> 0:04:11.780 but also then the flick pass across to the minister, 0:04:12.380 --> 0:04:15.500 and then listen carefully to what she has to say 0:04:15.620 --> 0:04:16.200 here too. 0:04:16.220 --> 0:04:20.840 Can you rule out that this legislation will allow ACMA 0:04:20.900 --> 0:04:25.690 or the eSafety Commissioner to police what you call misinformation 0:04:25.730 --> 0:04:26.310 on the internet. 0:04:26.510 --> 0:04:30.479 Let's be very clear about what this is about. 0:04:31.320 --> 0:04:32.840 It's not about censorship. 0:04:33.160 --> 0:04:37.740 It's about giving people control themselves over what they see. 0:04:39.920 --> 0:04:44.250 We can emphatically rule that out. Well, Albanese doesn't answer 0:04:44.270 --> 0:04:47.010 the question there, and Annika Wells goes on in the 0:04:47.050 --> 0:04:52.650 press conference to talk about child protection and pedophilia. Now, 0:04:52.730 --> 0:04:55.280 this was all done deliberately... I mean, who can be 0:04:56.000 --> 0:04:59.279 against protecting children from harm? On that, we're all agreed. 0:05:00.200 --> 0:05:03.060 But this is not what this legislation is about because 0:05:03.080 --> 0:05:07.270 there are already ample laws to do that and multimillion-dollar fines, 0:05:07.330 --> 0:05:10.010 as I said, that the government's never imposed for breaches 0:05:10.610 --> 0:05:13.870 despite all the tough talk. Now, this is way bigger 0:05:13.910 --> 0:05:18.410 than that and far more dangerous to our democracy. Now, 0:05:18.470 --> 0:05:21.550 you'll remember the voice. The Prime Minister said it was 0:05:22.010 --> 0:05:25.279 nothing more than a polite thing to do A gracious 0:05:25.360 --> 0:05:29.080 invitation from Aboriginal Australia to the rest of us. 0:05:29.920 --> 0:05:32.620 Have a read of the Uluru Statement from the Heart. 0:05:33.089 --> 0:05:38.550 Just one page, full of grace and generosity, inviting all 0:05:38.630 --> 0:05:43.100 Australians to walk together to a better future. 0:05:45.040 --> 0:05:46.940 And it wasn't. It wasn't about any of those things. 0:05:47.610 --> 0:05:50.750 The Voice was one of the most significant referendums ever 0:05:50.790 --> 0:05:53.190 to be put to the Australian public. If it had 0:05:53.250 --> 0:05:57.810 been successful, it would have forever changed our constitution by 0:05:57.850 --> 0:06:02.060 dividing Australians by their race and their genealogy. The Uluru 0:06:02.070 --> 0:06:05.880 Statement from the Heart wasn't a benign one-page document. It 0:06:05.940 --> 0:06:09.580 was a 26-page radical log of claims that called for 0:06:09.660 --> 0:06:13.360 treaty and reparations. And we know that only because of 0:06:13.420 --> 0:06:17.159 a document accessed under freedom of information from within the 0:06:17.200 --> 0:06:21.940 government's own Indigenous department. Now, because we have a free 0:06:22.000 --> 0:06:24.160 media in this country, at least for the time being, 0:06:24.180 --> 0:06:27.180 I was able to explain all of this to Australians. 0:06:27.779 --> 0:06:31.820 I was able to make public the government's own Uluru document. 0:06:32.560 --> 0:06:34.490 And even when there was an attempt to shut me 0:06:34.529 --> 0:06:37.750 down and take me off sites like Facebook, our lawyers 0:06:37.830 --> 0:06:40.440 here at News24 were able to rely on on the 0:06:40.500 --> 0:06:45.700 foundations of free speech and we won. But if these 0:06:45.820 --> 0:06:50.760 laws pass, how long will those rights hold? Because Labor's 0:06:50.820 --> 0:06:54.510 new digital duty of care puts free speech at risk. 0:06:55.310 --> 0:06:57.990 I think part of the reason why Albanese is so 0:06:58.029 --> 0:07:01.790 determined to push on and censor the internet is because 0:07:01.810 --> 0:07:07.970 he gambled with the voice and he lost. He lost big, comprehensively. 0:07:08.360 --> 0:07:12.520 Not one state voted for his racially divisive plan and 0:07:12.540 --> 0:07:16.850 he still hasn't forgiven any person or organisation that stood 0:07:16.890 --> 0:07:22.350 against him. What's also relevant here is One Nation. Listen 0:07:22.390 --> 0:07:25.690 again to those comments from the Prime Minister at Labor's 0:07:25.750 --> 0:07:28.430 recent state conference in Queensland. 0:07:29.270 --> 0:07:34.380 Delegates, this is a crucial time for our movement because 0:07:34.740 --> 0:07:37.640 across the world, hard right populists are on the march. 0:07:38.340 --> 0:07:44.140 peddling politics that is dangerous, divisive and downright dishonest. We 0:07:44.200 --> 0:07:47.630 simply must defeat them. We owe it to history. We 0:07:47.770 --> 0:07:50.690 owe it to the nation. And we will defeat them. 0:07:51.250 --> 0:07:53.970 They'll say anything and do anything to win votes, bend 0:07:54.050 --> 0:08:01.390 any facts, peddle misinformation and disinformation, turn Australian against Australian. 0:08:02.210 --> 0:08:06.380 Parties like One Nation have no serious answers to problems. 0:08:09.320 --> 0:08:12.700 Right across the world, governments of the left have got 0:08:12.760 --> 0:08:17.580 us into this socialist death spiral of debt, welfare dependency, 0:08:18.200 --> 0:08:21.730 and a big spending big state. Add in the toxic 0:08:21.790 --> 0:08:26.210 mix of uncontrolled migration and the disintegration of national culture, 0:08:26.780 --> 0:08:30.619 And voter backlash is real. This is in large part 0:08:30.660 --> 0:08:34.160 what's driving support to populist parties of the right and 0:08:34.320 --> 0:08:37.820 far right. The rise of reform in the UK, the 0:08:37.840 --> 0:08:41.459 example on the weekend of the AFD in Germany, Maloney 0:08:41.480 --> 0:08:44.620 in Italy, the phenomenon of Donald Trump and that big, 0:08:44.940 --> 0:08:50.000 big vote block shift in South America. This bill today 0:08:50.100 --> 0:08:53.520 sold as a digital duty of care is Labor's panic 0:08:53.559 --> 0:08:57.540 response to voters saying they've had enough of the hard left. Now, 0:08:57.580 --> 0:09:00.410 give it to the Labor Party. When they're in power, 0:09:00.790 --> 0:09:04.510 they go for broke. And this legislation is designed to 0:09:04.570 --> 0:09:09.210 change forever your access to information in this country. Because 0:09:09.350 --> 0:09:13.340 once you allow someone or something to set limits on 0:09:13.380 --> 0:09:17.580 what you see, read and hear, you lose control and 0:09:17.600 --> 0:09:22.660 you lose your freedoms. Even if the initial parameters are defensible, 0:09:23.460 --> 0:09:26.960 once parameters are in place, they will be open to 0:09:27.040 --> 0:09:31.650 abuse and can be changed to deliver a political outcome. 0:09:32.610 --> 0:09:35.770 For example, take a look at some of the categories 0:09:35.809 --> 0:09:41.010 that the Albanese government today say require special attention. Look 0:09:41.030 --> 0:09:44.640 at that category, women and gender. So how will this work? 0:09:45.340 --> 0:09:48.820 It says women and gender. No, there's no mention of men, 0:09:48.880 --> 0:09:53.179 just women. And that word gender, well, gender is not 0:09:53.380 --> 0:09:58.250 biological sex. Gender's a loaded word. Will this mean that 0:09:58.309 --> 0:10:02.100 any criticism of trans politics will fall foul of Labor's 0:10:02.140 --> 0:10:05.459 new digital duty of care laws? Will it mean that 0:10:05.920 --> 0:10:09.730 anything that debates gender as a contested concept will be 0:10:09.750 --> 0:10:13.689 banned under these new laws? Kids on puberty blockers, for instance. 0:10:14.320 --> 0:10:17.140 Or even a discussion of a Canberra principal forced to 0:10:17.179 --> 0:10:21.530 quit because she refused to promote trans ideology to primary 0:10:21.570 --> 0:10:26.910 school aged children. Or issues like welcomes to country. Will 0:10:26.950 --> 0:10:31.260 you be allowed to criticise them under Labor's new regime? Well, 0:10:31.280 --> 0:10:34.699 that's hard to know. Because so much of this legislation 0:10:34.740 --> 0:10:39.140 is opaque. And as I expect, given Labor's previous form, 0:10:39.790 --> 0:10:43.070 it will come in via a broad framework with so 0:10:43.130 --> 0:10:45.610 much of the flesh filled out down the track via 0:10:45.670 --> 0:10:49.510 ministerial regulation, meaning that MPs who vote for it now 0:10:49.570 --> 0:10:52.740 in the parliament will have little ability to scrutinise how 0:10:52.750 --> 0:10:56.040 it will actually work in practice, given that the operational 0:10:56.080 --> 0:10:59.699 regulations are yet to be made. Now, this is an 0:10:59.960 --> 0:11:04.230 often used rat-cutting tactic of Labor. It's what I call 0:11:04.330 --> 0:11:08.630 Trojan horse legislation. And any politician would be mad to 0:11:08.650 --> 0:11:12.620 give Albanese a blank check like this. Right around the world, 0:11:12.660 --> 0:11:15.080 there's a real push by the hard left to shut 0:11:15.120 --> 0:11:17.800 down free speech. And I know we use the term 0:11:17.820 --> 0:11:22.130 pretty freely these days, but this truly is Orwellian. Just 0:11:22.200 --> 0:11:25.620 listen to these comments at Davos a few years ago 0:11:25.640 --> 0:11:30.480 from Australia's East Safety Commissioner, Julie Inman Grant, because they show, 0:11:30.880 --> 0:11:34.420 more than anything, that this censorship plan has been a 0:11:34.520 --> 0:11:36.630 long time in the making. 0:11:37.410 --> 0:11:41.490 We are finding ourselves in a place where we have 0:11:41.510 --> 0:11:46.340 increasing polarisation everywhere. And everything feels binary when it doesn't 0:11:46.360 --> 0:11:48.400 need to be. So I think we're going to have 0:11:48.420 --> 0:11:50.860 to think about a recalibration of a whole range of 0:11:50.960 --> 0:11:53.170 human rights that are playing out online, you know, from 0:11:53.590 --> 0:11:55.610 freedom of speech to the freedom. 0:11:55.630 --> 0:11:58.530 To, you know, to be free from online violence. 0:12:00.450 --> 0:12:03.969 That's it right there. When I was in the UK 0:12:03.990 --> 0:12:05.670 a couple of months ago, the Labor government at the 0:12:05.730 --> 0:12:09.939 time released draft legislation to give their media regulator the 0:12:09.980 --> 0:12:13.600 power to preference favoured news services like the BBC and 0:12:14.250 --> 0:12:18.040 at the top of any Google search. News services that 0:12:18.360 --> 0:12:21.340 said the right thing on climate change or immigration, for example, 0:12:21.800 --> 0:12:24.860 would be way ahead of any organisation that challenged the 0:12:24.980 --> 0:12:30.260 activist narrative. Here too, Australia's regulator ACMA has already started 0:12:30.300 --> 0:12:33.420 down a similar path. Have a look at this report 0:12:33.470 --> 0:12:38.590 issued last week about news consumer segmentation and all the 0:12:38.670 --> 0:12:43.570 references here to trusted news sources like the ABC and SBS. 0:12:44.340 --> 0:12:47.820 Menchu was made also to the need to reduce the 0:12:47.860 --> 0:12:52.970 concentration of influence among major media companies such as News 0:12:53.070 --> 0:12:56.790 Corporation Australia. Well, as you know, that's the owner of 0:12:56.830 --> 0:13:00.670 News 24. And then there's the Albanese government's new policy 0:13:00.710 --> 0:13:06.000 to pay media organisations additional millions of dollars to support 0:13:06.040 --> 0:13:10.079 the employment of journalists. So millions to the ABC, SBS 0:13:10.140 --> 0:13:13.699 and a lot of our commercial competitors. But what would 0:13:13.720 --> 0:13:17.949 you know? My Employer News Corp is not eligible for 0:13:18.110 --> 0:13:21.190 any of this taxpayer funding. So let's go back to 0:13:21.210 --> 0:13:24.550 where we started. Labor's announcement today about a digital duty 0:13:24.590 --> 0:13:28.620 of care is not about protecting Australians. It's not. It's 0:13:28.840 --> 0:13:33.440 about protecting the left. It's about entrenching Labor power and 0:13:33.500 --> 0:13:37.260 it's about denying Australians access to a broad range of 0:13:37.340 --> 0:13:41.640 legitimate information sources for you to make up your own mind. 0:13:43.080 --> 0:13:48.160 The Albanese government is in trouble. It's making bad decisions 0:13:48.200 --> 0:13:52.090 that are tanking the economy and it fears that you're 0:13:52.230 --> 0:13:54.870 waking up to just how bad they are at government. 0:13:55.590 --> 0:13:59.210 So what do they do? Well, they upend your access 0:13:59.270 --> 0:14:03.360 to information, your access to an alternative point of view. 0:14:04.540 --> 0:14:09.750 Labor man Graham Richardson said it best. Whatever it takes. 0:14:10.309 --> 0:14:13.230 Whatever it takes is what Labor will do to hold 0:14:13.309 --> 0:14:15.949 on to power, to keep the money rolling out to 0:14:16.010 --> 0:14:20.450 their mates, to tilt the scales in their favour. And 0:14:20.490 --> 0:14:24.150 this new digital duty of care is about as nuclear 0:14:24.370 --> 0:14:32.380 as it gets in the fight for free speech. Busy 0:14:32.510 --> 0:14:34.660 day today. Lots going on. We'll get to Trudy now 0:14:34.680 --> 0:14:35.960 with the headlines in Canberra. 0:14:36.770 --> 0:14:39.720 Big tech is facing big new rules in Australia as 0:14:39.760 --> 0:14:43.220 the Prime Minister unveils long-awaited digital duty of care changes. 0:14:44.020 --> 0:14:48.580 This is not about giving government control. It's about giving 0:14:48.700 --> 0:14:49.500 people control. 0:14:50.100 --> 0:14:53.830 Labor will require tech platforms including apps and AI chatbots 0:14:54.070 --> 0:14:56.330 to protect users from harmful content. 0:14:56.750 --> 0:14:59.610 This is about the systems and the tools and the 0:14:59.670 --> 0:15:04.140 features that cause harm and mostly protect Serious harm for children. 0:15:04.380 --> 0:15:06.760 Social media users will also be given a choice to 0:15:06.980 --> 0:15:08.240 opt out of algorithms. 0:15:08.600 --> 0:15:09.900 And the reality is lots of people are going to 0:15:09.920 --> 0:15:10.820 want to choose the algorithm. 0:15:10.960 --> 0:15:13.260 That's their choice. We respect that choice. 0:15:13.580 --> 0:15:15.220 We just want people to have the choice not to 0:15:15.520 --> 0:15:16.100 do that as well. 0:15:16.460 --> 0:15:19.400 Coalition and One Nation MPs have raised big concerns. 0:15:19.950 --> 0:15:23.170 Are the motives here about harmful content or are they 0:15:23.210 --> 0:15:24.950 about trying to tilt the political scales? 0:15:25.270 --> 0:15:28.190 I do worry about the social issues. 0:15:29.520 --> 0:15:31.380 That's going on at the moment by the Labor government. 0:15:31.440 --> 0:15:33.400 We have to be really careful we don't censor the 0:15:33.440 --> 0:15:34.060 public square. 0:15:34.800 --> 0:15:37.420 And it's game on. The Prime Minister is facing off 0:15:37.460 --> 0:15:41.100 with a high-profile mortgage broker on the tennis court. Ahead 0:15:41.120 --> 0:15:44.140 of the grudge match, budget critic Joseph Daoud paid for 0:15:44.180 --> 0:15:46.070 a skywriting stunt above Parliament. 0:15:46.870 --> 0:15:48.350 This is unbelievable. 0:15:48.390 --> 0:15:49.790 This is surreal. 0:15:50.190 --> 0:15:52.590 He wants the PM to rethink the impact of capital 0:15:52.630 --> 0:15:55.470 gains tax changes on businesses. What does it be to 0:15:55.510 --> 0:15:55.930 him today? 0:15:55.950 --> 0:15:56.010 Um. 0:15:59.300 --> 0:16:00.380 We just need more consultation. 0:16:00.920 --> 0:16:03.900 You know, the budget was served up. 0:16:03.990 --> 0:16:04.630 It was a double fault. 0:16:05.350 --> 0:16:06.790 They took a victory lap afterwards. 0:16:06.930 --> 0:16:08.910 Four months later, we're still talking about the budget. 0:16:09.330 --> 0:16:10.010 Is that really fair? 0:16:10.650 --> 0:16:11.760 Trudy McIntosh, News 24, Canberra. 0:16:16.240 --> 0:16:17.750 All right, plenty of other things coming out of camera 0:16:17.770 --> 0:16:20.260 that I want to get to, but breaking news this afternoon, 0:16:20.300 --> 0:16:23.320 this is in relation to One Nation in Victoria. Their 0:16:23.380 --> 0:16:27.020 leader there, Warren Pickering, mounting a fierce defence against allegations 0:16:27.460 --> 0:16:30.600 that have been playing out in the media over recent days. 0:16:31.380 --> 0:16:34.340 The mistakes I made in my 20s hurt people. They 0:16:34.380 --> 0:16:38.340 hurt me. They hurt people I loved, and I will 0:16:38.360 --> 0:16:43.220 live with that forever. But when I talk about cultivating 0:16:43.240 --> 0:16:46.720 talent from the real world, to represent the Victorian people. 0:16:47.260 --> 0:16:51.830 This is what I mean. People with lived experience. People 0:16:51.870 --> 0:16:54.010 that refuse to be a victim of their own past 0:16:54.490 --> 0:16:56.930 and people that can hold themselves to a higher standard 0:16:57.000 --> 0:17:04.040 now and represent the benchmark for others to attain. 0:17:06.119 --> 0:17:08.560 Here to discuss is the More News 24 political editor, 0:17:08.640 --> 0:17:11.719 Andrew Clennell. Well, Andrew, you and I have been around 0:17:11.760 --> 0:17:15.020 politics a long time. You don't often get a press 0:17:15.080 --> 0:17:19.610 conference like that. I mean, it was spellbinding stuff. What 0:17:19.640 --> 0:17:20.389 did you make of it? 0:17:23.590 --> 0:17:25.330 Well, I just want to break the news that Anthony 0:17:25.369 --> 0:17:30.390 Albanese wiped the floor with that tennis bloke, the anti-CGT campaigner, 0:17:30.450 --> 0:17:32.450 six loves, six loves, six loves. So not much luck 0:17:32.470 --> 0:17:34.490 for him on the tax or on the tennis court. 0:17:34.859 --> 0:17:39.140 In terms of this Warren Pickering story, Peter, what would 0:17:39.180 --> 0:17:41.990 we say if this was Ben Carroll? Because it's about 0:17:42.030 --> 0:17:45.649 time One Nation was held to this standard, in my opinion. 0:17:46.750 --> 0:17:49.450 If Ben Carroll came out and said I was a 0:17:49.710 --> 0:17:56.990 regular meth user 15, 20 years ago and, you know, 0:17:57.010 --> 0:17:59.300 he was a meth user when he had little kids, 0:17:59.380 --> 0:18:01.080 is that right? I mean, he says he never did 0:18:01.100 --> 0:18:03.640 it in the house. The ex-partner says differently. 0:18:04.720 --> 0:18:06.320 How would we be looking at this guy? 0:18:06.440 --> 0:18:09.660 Why does One Nation get a lead pass on these 0:18:09.700 --> 0:18:13.350 sorts of things? You know, he's trying to be, he's 0:18:13.410 --> 0:18:16.990 running for Premier this bloke and I just don't think 0:18:17.030 --> 0:18:19.170 it passes the pub test. Now, plenty of people will 0:18:19.210 --> 0:18:22.220 have sympathy for him and it's a great sort of 0:18:22.280 --> 0:18:26.859 reforming story. But I'm kind of pretty anti-drugs myself. 0:18:26.960 --> 0:18:31.010 And I don't like it. I don't like it. 0:18:32.160 --> 0:18:35.830 Maybe if he was running for the upper house or something, whatever, 0:18:35.890 --> 0:18:38.590 but he's running for Premier. It's a pretty high standard 0:18:39.550 --> 0:18:42.060 and I think they will suffer because of it. 0:18:43.730 --> 0:18:46.190 Let me just jump in there. I think there's a 0:18:46.210 --> 0:18:50.609 couple of issues. One, how will it play with the 0:18:50.690 --> 0:18:54.050 One Nation base as opposed to the other parts of 0:18:54.070 --> 0:18:56.790 the electorate that they're going to chase come November. That's 0:18:56.910 --> 0:19:01.290 one thing. Two, there's no evidence since this period of 0:19:01.350 --> 0:19:04.270 life 20-odd years ago and given he was assessed by 0:19:04.310 --> 0:19:06.990 the court to get custody of the children at each 0:19:07.070 --> 0:19:11.130 time custody was sought and courts reluctantly give custody to 0:19:11.150 --> 0:19:13.689 the male partner, but they did in this instance, he 0:19:13.710 --> 0:19:16.629 got custody of the children, he was admitted into the 0:19:16.670 --> 0:19:20.600 Defence Force, he held a top secret clearance. I've had one. 0:19:21.150 --> 0:19:23.230 They're not easy to get. They're certainly not easy to 0:19:23.410 --> 0:19:26.459 hold if you behave badly, but he did hold one. 0:19:26.980 --> 0:19:29.959 And now it's a story of redemption. And so in 0:19:30.020 --> 0:19:33.619 that One Nation assessment world, as they did with a 0:19:33.619 --> 0:19:36.940 bloke in Sacred Harbour who also admitted to prior drug use, 0:19:37.300 --> 0:19:39.879 and he was elected in a landslide, Andrew, I'm not 0:19:39.940 --> 0:19:42.609 sure it's going to hurt them in terms of their base. 0:19:43.030 --> 0:19:45.369 Is it going to bring people to One Nation? I 0:19:45.410 --> 0:19:50.200 think that's contestable. But remember when Chris Minns appointed the 0:19:50.240 --> 0:19:52.560 Chief Commissioner of Police in New South Wales and there 0:19:52.600 --> 0:19:54.800 was a bit of a checkered history with him and 0:19:54.820 --> 0:19:57.859 he said, on the worst day in Sydney, this is 0:19:57.880 --> 0:20:00.320 the bloke that I want in the top job. And 0:20:00.359 --> 0:20:04.679 we all know that Tanya Plebiscite's husband was jailed as 0:20:04.740 --> 0:20:08.310 a drug trafficker for some time. He came out, redeemed 0:20:08.350 --> 0:20:10.810 his life. I think he's the head of Premier and Cabinet, 0:20:10.830 --> 0:20:13.950 isn't he, in New South Wales. He's certainly run senior 0:20:14.070 --> 0:20:17.730 government departments. He was allowed to have a second chance. 0:20:18.190 --> 0:20:22.050 People will say, aren't we being hypocritical here? The question is, 0:20:22.090 --> 0:20:25.899 did he lie? Was he asked about these events? And 0:20:25.920 --> 0:20:28.430 did he deny them when, in fact, they are true? 0:20:28.530 --> 0:20:30.669 That's where you'll get caught out if that's the fact. 0:20:30.690 --> 0:20:31.930 Well, what about the ADF? 0:20:31.990 --> 0:20:33.790 I mean, do you think he told the truth to 0:20:33.830 --> 0:20:36.450 the ADF to get that high-level clearance? 0:20:36.540 --> 0:20:37.220 I suspect he did, mate. 0:20:37.619 --> 0:20:41.460 Yes, yes, you can. He did. You can admit... Well, no, 0:20:42.220 --> 0:20:43.600 I'm not saying he did or he didn't, but I'm 0:20:43.660 --> 0:20:45.580 saying I know many people who have gone to get 0:20:45.600 --> 0:20:49.010 their TS, the top-secret clearance, and as long as you 0:20:49.030 --> 0:20:52.850 disclose something, if the defence... force finds it out in 0:20:52.869 --> 0:20:56.530 the security clearance process. If you have disclosed it, they'll 0:20:56.570 --> 0:20:58.710 make a judgment call whether you're of calibre to stand 0:20:58.730 --> 0:21:02.240 there or good character. But if they find something you 0:21:02.340 --> 0:21:04.740 haven't disclosed, you are in trouble. 0:21:06.040 --> 0:21:10.640 Yeah, but I still feel if this was Ben Carroll 0:21:10.859 --> 0:21:13.350 and this came out about Ben Carroll, he'd be resigning today, 0:21:13.940 --> 0:21:16.570 you know. If this came out about Angus Taylor, he 0:21:16.590 --> 0:21:17.410 wouldn't be in a job. 0:21:18.300 --> 0:21:19.200 You know what I mean? 0:21:19.220 --> 0:21:23.859 Why does One Nation get the leave pass? 0:21:24.000 --> 0:21:26.440 Angus Taylor is a conservative, so there'll be no leave 0:21:26.480 --> 0:21:28.859 pass for him. It'd only be worse if he was 0:21:28.900 --> 0:21:32.159 a conservative woman. But if it was Ben Carroll, what's worse, 0:21:32.720 --> 0:21:38.530 admitting to using meth in your 20s or potentially corrupting 0:21:38.650 --> 0:21:40.890 the poor old taxpayer to the tune of $ 15 billion 0:21:40.910 --> 0:21:45.020 or putting in a secret tax, denying the UN anything 0:21:45.080 --> 0:21:48.159 about it, then being revealed as having been told two 0:21:48.180 --> 0:21:50.380 years about a secret transport tax. 0:21:50.700 --> 0:21:53.659 I don't know what's worse. If it emerges that a 0:21:53.660 --> 0:21:56.000 political leader of another party or a Premier or a 0:21:56.000 --> 0:21:59.300 Prime Minister has been a regular user of drugs, you 0:21:59.320 --> 0:22:02.119 don't think they would pay, and they weren't in One Nation, 0:22:02.200 --> 0:22:05.200 you don't think they would pay any political penalty for that? 0:22:05.240 --> 0:22:08.460 No, I'm not saying that. No, I just think, Andrew, 0:22:08.540 --> 0:22:12.119 I think times are evolving on this issue. There was 0:22:12.160 --> 0:22:14.699 a time when single women, they'd never be able to 0:22:14.740 --> 0:22:17.700 stand for politics than they can. I've never used drugs 0:22:17.740 --> 0:22:21.450 in my life. Freely admit, never used them. Really, really 0:22:21.510 --> 0:22:24.530 tough on drugs. That's my message. But I think, you know, 0:22:24.550 --> 0:22:26.590 you'd be hard-pressed to find someone now under the age 0:22:26.630 --> 0:22:29.490 of 40 who hasn't dabbled in something. And I think 0:22:29.550 --> 0:22:31.689 it's going to come up more and more as we 0:22:31.730 --> 0:22:35.050 discuss candidates. I mean, I, you know, I would like 0:22:35.090 --> 0:22:36.879 to think that One Nation could do better and have 0:22:36.910 --> 0:22:38.780 someone that's got a better character than this. 0:22:39.340 --> 0:22:40.600 But people will have watched him today. 0:22:40.619 --> 0:22:41.060 There you go. 0:22:41.630 --> 0:22:44.659 They will have watched him today and the way he 0:22:44.720 --> 0:22:48.340 responded and the way those two children were absolutely in 0:22:48.440 --> 0:22:51.570 his corner and said that their lives would have been way, 0:22:51.630 --> 0:22:56.310 way worse if he did not basically become their guardian 0:22:56.330 --> 0:23:00.500 and stand up and raise them. Well, people will pay 0:23:00.540 --> 0:23:02.300 homage to that. They will think that is a good thing. 0:23:02.340 --> 0:23:02.840 I felt for them. 0:23:03.820 --> 0:23:06.159 I did feel for them because this isn't their choice 0:23:06.280 --> 0:23:10.020 really as well, you know, to be out there defending. 0:23:10.060 --> 0:23:12.090 I mean, they have the choice, I guess, in the end. But, 0:23:12.270 --> 0:23:15.209 you know, the old story, I mean, this is not 0:23:15.250 --> 0:23:17.350 their life. They're not the ones running for office and 0:23:17.369 --> 0:23:19.929 yet they have to be brought out to defend the guy. 0:23:19.970 --> 0:23:24.190 So I don't know. A lot of One Nation voters 0:23:24.210 --> 0:23:26.440 I would have thought were older, more conservative on issues 0:23:26.500 --> 0:23:31.960 like this. The young supporters of One Nation, sure. They'll 0:23:32.000 --> 0:23:37.840 give the guy a go. But do you concede that 0:23:37.920 --> 0:23:40.430 there appears at the moment, even if it's just a 0:23:40.530 --> 0:23:45.609