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Speaker 1: I'll get a champce. Welcome to another installments show. It's Jumbo,

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Speaker 1: it's Fatty Harps. It's he who hosts the show. But

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Speaker 1: then who else would it be. I just made a

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Speaker 1: new friend about five minutes ago. We'll see how the

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Speaker 1: relationship develops in the next hour or so. So far,

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Speaker 1: it's been pretty good. Hi Ian, Hi Craig. How are

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Speaker 1: you doing today, mate? I'm good. I'm good, Thank you

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Speaker 1: very much. What it's what time is it over there?

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Speaker 2: Is it?

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Speaker 1: Like?

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Speaker 3: I'm in Auckland, So it's three oh five on Saturday afternoon?

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Speaker 1: And now am I correct in thinking that you are

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Speaker 1: the Auckland? Is it Auckland? That is the most advanced

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Speaker 1: time wise in the world of any like you get

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Speaker 1: to New Year's Eve, New Year's midnight on New Year's

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Speaker 1: Eve before the rest of us.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think there are some

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Speaker 3: offshore islands that like to claim it, but so do we.

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Speaker 3: So we're ahead of the rest of the world by

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Speaker 3: a long.

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Speaker 1: Way, and not just in terms of times. That give

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Speaker 1: me two pros and two cons. Not that you want

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Speaker 1: to throw your whole country under, but what are two

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Speaker 1: great things about living in New Zealand and what are

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Speaker 1: perhaps two limitations or challenges.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's a great country to live in because

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Speaker 3: it has a reasonably unspoiled environment, so it's it's pretty

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Speaker 3: clean and green, and the seawater is pretty not too bad,

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Speaker 3: and the rivers are okay.

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Speaker 2: So it's a very very nice place to live.

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Speaker 3: It's got fantastic cuisine, nearly as good as Australia, and

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Speaker 3: great wines, some of which are bester than Australia. So

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Speaker 3: that's so it's a it's a it's a fantastic place

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Speaker 3: to live. It's it's very enjoyable and it's very relaxed,

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Speaker 3: just like Australia and so on.

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Speaker 2: So it's and it's not well, I guess the other

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Speaker 2: thing about.

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Speaker 3: It, it's not overly hot, so we don't really have

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Speaker 3: any desits we get to about, Oh, if it's thirty degrees,

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Speaker 3: we're complaining like mad. So it's a very mild, oceanic

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Speaker 3: type climate.

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Speaker 2: So a good place to be.

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Speaker 1: And if you could change one thing or improve one thing,

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Speaker 1: if you're boss of the world, that was in your

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Speaker 1: power to fix one thing that's a bit broken in

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Speaker 1: New Zealand. Is that filled with dread that question.

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Speaker 3: No, No, I mean, I think one of the real

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Speaker 3: limitations it is the time zones. So I work, for example,

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Speaker 3: with someone in Hungary, and I just found out today

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Speaker 3: we're changing time zone. So daylight saving ends, so it's fall,

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Speaker 3: so we fall back, so we go back an hour.

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Speaker 3: And so we used to meet eight o'clock, eight o'clock,

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Speaker 3: and now it's eight.

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Speaker 2: O'clock seven o'clock for her or whatever it is.

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Speaker 3: So it's it's it's it's that's that's a bit of

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Speaker 3: a challenge.

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Speaker 1: Really, How great is it though? Think about I mean,

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Speaker 1: how great is it that you're however far away you are.

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Speaker 1: I'm sitting in my bloody office in Melbourne. You're in

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Speaker 1: Auckland in your office, and you and I can talk.

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Speaker 1: We can see each other, we can talk clearly, there's

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Speaker 1: no lag, there's no delay, we don't have to be

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Speaker 1: in the same room. You can coach people anywhere in

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Speaker 1: the world. You and I can both do a bloody

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Speaker 1: keynote address to a group in America if we want.

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Speaker 1: I mean, is it's pretty good, isn't it?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? No, it is absolutely brilliant. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So I've got a few things kind of coming up

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Speaker 3: they are, probably the nicest of which is doing a

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Speaker 3: session for the BBC Book Club.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 3: So I don't know quite what it's going to be like,

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Speaker 3: but yeah, only only thanks to the Internet. So yeah, no,

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Speaker 3: it's obviously it's got some challenges and you know, there's

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Speaker 3: a lot of issues around gen z and the Internet

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Speaker 3: and social media and all that, but it's got wonderful,

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Speaker 3: wonderful advantages as well.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I did a gig. Gee what are we twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty five? It would have been two years ago. I

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Speaker 1: did a one off gig for Hewlett Packard. They were

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Speaker 1: it was I can't even I think they booked me

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Speaker 1: out of Germany. Believe it or not. Somebody follows my

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Speaker 1: social media and my stuff and anyway, this lady who

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Speaker 1: had a resonably senior role there, reached out and said,

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Speaker 1: could you do an online workshop around whatever it was

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Speaker 1: with our group? And I went sure, And then so

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Speaker 1: we organized everything and I probably should have asked, not

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Speaker 1: that it made any difference massively to me, because I'm

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Speaker 1: still sitting on my bum in my office in Australia. Yes,

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Speaker 1: it turns out it was forty two countries and it

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Speaker 1: was four and a half thousand people online at once, right,

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Speaker 1: And I'm like, oh, all right, well I should probably

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Speaker 1: put some thought into this, you know. And then but

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Speaker 1: what was even cooler was it went really well. I

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Speaker 1: got really nice feedback. They were very happy, which is great.

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Speaker 1: And then an hour or two later I got an

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Speaker 1: email after the event and I saw the email come

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Speaker 1: through and I went, well, this could be terrible or

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Speaker 1: this could be good. And they said, that was really

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Speaker 1: well received. We've already got lots of positive feedback. Would

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Speaker 1: it be possible that we do a twelve month gig

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Speaker 1: with you, or a you know, like a contract with

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Speaker 1: you where you come once a month and just do

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Speaker 1: like a workshop on a different component of you know,

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Speaker 1: whatever it is, workplace performance, you know, human behavior, psychology, whatever.

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Speaker 1: And I went, yeah, So I did a year with

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Speaker 1: and so once a month, I'm just sitting here and

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Speaker 1: I was. I went home one weekend my parents live

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Speaker 1: in the country, and mum said, what do you do?

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Speaker 1: What do you do this week? And I said, I

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Speaker 1: spoke to four and a half thousand people in forty

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Speaker 1: two countries at the same time. She's like, what do

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Speaker 1: you mean, Like, my mum's eighty five, right, I mean

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Speaker 1: that was like saying, oh, I just performed magic on

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Speaker 1: top of the Sydney Opera House and then I flew

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Speaker 1: down into the water under my own steam, like she

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Speaker 1: couldn't comprehend. Imagine, imagine you know, thirty years ago. I

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Speaker 1: don't know how old you are, but thirty years ago,

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Speaker 1: you know, ninety ninety five saying to me, saying to you, hey, mate,

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Speaker 1: You're going to talk to a bunch of people in

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Speaker 1: real time. You're going to be able to see as

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Speaker 1: many of them as you want. There's going to be

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Speaker 1: a four and a half, you know whatever. You're be

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Speaker 1: able to talk to them. They can ask you questions

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Speaker 1: in real time. Are you're not going to leave the house.

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Speaker 1: You can wear bare feet and a pair of footy

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Speaker 1: shirts if you want, And you're going to get paid

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Speaker 1: a shitload. And you go, oh, well, how long has

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Speaker 1: this been around?

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Speaker 2: Exactly?

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Speaker 3: Exactly, No, the opportunities are endless.

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Speaker 2: Someday. It's an extraordinary time that we live in, very

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Speaker 2: very enjoyable.

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Speaker 1: It certainly is. Now. Tell my awesome audience who you are,

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Speaker 1: Give us the u bio, Give us the informal bio

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Speaker 1: of who you are and what you do and where

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Speaker 1: you've been yep.

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Speaker 2: Okay.

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Speaker 3: So I was born in Wellington, so about three hundred

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Speaker 3: miles south.

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Speaker 2: Of Auckland, and grew up there and went to university.

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Speaker 3: And my father was a scientist and my brother had

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Speaker 3: done physics and so on, and so I foolishly followed

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Speaker 3: in their footsteps, and in my second year I failed

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Speaker 3: everything outright and decided it was about time I should

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Speaker 3: think about what I wanted to do rather than following

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Speaker 3: in other people's footsteps.

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Speaker 2: So fortunately that year I went to a guest.

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Speaker 3: Lecture at the university that was given by a guy

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Speaker 3: called Professor Tony Taylor.

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Speaker 2: And I was just in capture.

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Speaker 3: I just I was enthralled by what he said and

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Speaker 3: I thought, hey, look this is really interesting, this is

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Speaker 3: this is definitely what I want to do. And so

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Speaker 3: in my third year of university I started doing psychology

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Speaker 3: and I just loved it. And before that I'd been

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Speaker 3: a bit of a failure. I've got dyslexia, and you know,

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Speaker 3: I had lots of problems at school and all that

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Speaker 3: kind of stuff. But once I started psychology, I was

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Speaker 3: kind of off. And I finished my degree and I

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Speaker 3: did a year in social work and then I decided

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Speaker 3: I wanted to do something else, so I managed to

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Speaker 3: inveigle my way into a clinical psychology course. So I

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Speaker 3: did that, So that's three years, and worked in prisons,

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Speaker 3: most doing therapy and assessment with prisoners. And then in

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Speaker 3: about my third or fourth year of doing that, Professor

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Speaker 3: Tony Taylor, the man that i'd originally gone to the

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Speaker 3: lecture to, came and said to me, Ian, I'm organizing

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Speaker 3: an expedition to Antarctica and we're looking for a field psychologist.

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Speaker 2: Have you done any ice work?

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Speaker 3: And I said at that point, well, I've chipped the

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Speaker 3: odd bit out for a Gin and tonic, but apart

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Speaker 3: from that, no, And.

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Speaker 2: He said, oh, that's not a problem.

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Speaker 3: We'll send you on a training course and wheel about it.

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Speaker 3: So the next year I went to Antarctica, twelve.

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Speaker 2: Of us on the ice.

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Speaker 3: Designed to be halfway between a modern expedition, which is

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Speaker 3: for pampered souls who live in warm, sheltered vehicles, and

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Speaker 3: Scott Na Munston who were pulling their own sledges. So

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Speaker 3: we actually had a little open vehicle traveled in those

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Speaker 3: and we went a long way into the center of Antartica,

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Speaker 3: where its breathtakingly hostile environment.

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Speaker 2: It's just staggering.

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Speaker 3: I mean, you just get a sense of well, I mean,

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Speaker 3: I know Mawson was very famous in Australia for his work,

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Speaker 3: and so you know, you just are in awe of

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Speaker 3: these people who went in there and trudged over this

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Speaker 3: incredible environment.

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Speaker 2: So I did that, and I wrote that up as

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Speaker 2: my PhD. And then I worked in HR for a little.

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Speaker 3: Bit, and then I moved into management consulting and did

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Speaker 3: that for some years, and then got thoroughly bored, found

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Speaker 3: myself a job in Hong Kong. Was in Hong Kong

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Speaker 3: for eight years, built a business and sold it there

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Speaker 3: with a mate of mine, and came back to New

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Speaker 3: Zealand about at the end of two thousand and established

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Speaker 3: the Executive Coaching Center. So I mostly worked with senior execs.

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Speaker 3: So I'm kind of blending my organizational psychology, my clinical psychology,

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Speaker 3: and my experience internationally together to help CEOs and senior execs.

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Speaker 3: And I just love it, and I do that most

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Speaker 3: of the time. I train other coaches, I write books,

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Speaker 3: et cetera. Wow, you see, how's that is that.

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Speaker 2: A bit long?

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Speaker 1: No, that's bloody great.

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Speaker 2: I love it.

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Speaker 1: I've got I was listening with I'm going to say

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Speaker 1: fascination and a little bit of envy. So that's that's

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Speaker 1: a sin. I'm going to have to repent for that.

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Speaker 1: That's my very Catholic upbringing. I'm going to have to

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Speaker 1: repent for that and do some of the rosary later.

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Speaker 1: But for now, I'll just I'll just feel guilty. Yes, please, okay,

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Speaker 1: I want to I want it great. That's a bloody

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Speaker 1: great intro. I want to ask a couple of things.

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Speaker 1: So you kind of intimated that you what was the

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Speaker 1: first thing that you did that you were ship at

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Speaker 1: at UNI?

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Speaker 4: So physics, space physics, and there wasn't one thing.

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Speaker 2: There was about eight I was shipped out.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, okay. Isn't it interesting the like the I guess,

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Speaker 1: the occurrence that a lot of us do, or the

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Speaker 1: real the fact that a lot of us do what

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Speaker 1: we think we should do, not the thing we want

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Speaker 1: to do. And when it comes to career anyway, like

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Speaker 1: we go. Everyone thinks I should be a whatever like

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Speaker 1: Dad was a granddad, was a mum, was a grandma,

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Speaker 1: was a mom, and Dad would be very proud of

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Speaker 1: me if I became a fill in the blank. It's

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Speaker 1: not like, yeah, but one, what are you good at?

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Speaker 1: What are you passionate about? What do you want to do?

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Speaker 1: Because it's a fair chance you're going to do a

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Speaker 1: fucking lot of it for a very long time. Yes,

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Speaker 1: unless you really want to be a doctor, which, by

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Speaker 1: the way, if you do, that's amazing, well done. Don't

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Speaker 1: try to become a doctor because mom loves doctors and

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Speaker 1: you actually want to be a painter, like or you

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Speaker 1: want to build homes, or you want to go to

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Speaker 1: Antarctica and be an adventurer. So what is that where

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Speaker 1: we feel almost and I'm not I don't think parents

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Speaker 1: are necessarily trying burst, but there's definitely an expectation or

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Speaker 1: a hope that for us, we probably feel when we're younger,

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Speaker 1: compelled to try to keep mom and dad happy and

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Speaker 1: to not disappoint them. How do we navigate that and

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Speaker 1: how do you work around that with it not even

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Speaker 1: as kids, but as older people like I remember when

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Speaker 1: I was about twenty I'll shut up after this, mate,

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Speaker 1: when I was twenty two or three and I was

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Speaker 1: working in gyms, right yep. And my parents it's not

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Speaker 1: like they are a bloody impressed that their buff ed's

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Speaker 1: son was putting dumbbells back on the rack and vacuuming

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Speaker 1: the gym floor and you know, cleaning the bloody JACUZI

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Speaker 1: I don't think that. I don't think they're bragging to

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Speaker 1: their friends about that career path. But but I got

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Speaker 1: to the point where I knew I wanted to build

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Speaker 1: a business. And just for your FYI, you know, I

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Speaker 1: set up the first personal training centers in Australia, wrote

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Speaker 1: the first course all that kind of shit with a

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Speaker 1: friend of mine. I wrote the course all of that,

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Speaker 1: and so I kind of somewhat pioneered personal training in Australia.

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Speaker 1: I say somewhat, of course it would have happened anyway.

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Speaker 1: But I was doing personal training in nine and eighty

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Speaker 1: five six when no one had heard it, and I

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Speaker 1: set up the first facility in nine ninety when there

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Speaker 1: wasn't any right. But I realized early that I didn't

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Speaker 1: want a job. Like I wanted to work, but I

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Speaker 1: didn't want a boss. I didn't want to work in

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Speaker 1: someone else's framework or structure. I didn't want to come

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Speaker 1: in every day and someone would give me a to

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Speaker 1: do list that didn't interest me. Yes, and it's not

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Speaker 1: like work's not good or bad? But for me trying

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Speaker 1: to figure out, Okay, well you're twenty two or three four,

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Speaker 1: you probably have to do this what you do now

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Speaker 1: version of it that is worked for the next forty

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Speaker 1: years or so, what do you want that to look like, Craig,

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Speaker 1: And what do you need to do more of and

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Speaker 1: less of? And like what for you? Not for mom

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Speaker 1: and dad and not for like what is society or

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Speaker 1: what's the bloody group think? But what might blow your

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Speaker 1: socks off? And what might be for you the intersection

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Speaker 1: of making a few bucks and having fun and developing

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Speaker 1: some skills and knowledge and maybe tapping into your passion.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 3: So psychology can tell us a huge amount about why

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Speaker 3: we get into this, and it really starts at a

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Speaker 3: biological level.

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Speaker 2: So the problem that humans have is that we have it.

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Speaker 3: We always have a very difficult berth because the birth

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Speaker 3: canal is relatively small and our head is relatively big.

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Speaker 5: So we when we come out, we're not like a

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Speaker 5: deer or a cat or whatever, where we're actually ninety

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Speaker 5: a scent formed.

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Speaker 3: And you know, I'm sure you've seen all those films

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Speaker 3: of the savannahs in Africa where the you know, the

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Speaker 3: wilderbeast is born and immediately gets up and trots away.

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Speaker 3: You know, we are completely and hutterly helpless for.

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Speaker 2: Years and years.

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Speaker 3: And what that means is that we have a very

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Speaker 3: very strong dependency on other people. And it's not just

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Speaker 3: that we want to please other people for much of

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Speaker 3: our early life. If we don't get on with this

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Speaker 3: other person, we die. It's as simple as that. It's

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Speaker 3: life and death. So that starts us that that has

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Speaker 3: two two issues. Two issues arise from that that are

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Speaker 3: characteristics of humans. So we have we are incredibly social people.

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Speaker 3: So we live in cities and we you know, we

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Speaker 3: go to work and we interact with other people. We

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Speaker 3: are not we don't function generally, we don't function well.

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Speaker 2: If we're unless we're with other people.

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Speaker 3: So we have this incredibly strong social bond and that's fantastic,

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Speaker 3: and that's one of the reasons why we're successful, because

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Speaker 3: we can have teams and everybody's got a different skill,

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Speaker 3: but we pulled together all that kind of stuff. Probably

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Speaker 3: why we're also not doing pleasant things to the planets.

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Speaker 3: But anyway, that's another story. So that's the plus side.

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Speaker 3: But the minor side is of course that this idea

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Speaker 3: that we are dependent on other people and that if

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Speaker 3: other people, if other people don't like us, or we

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Speaker 3: do something that's terrible, something very very bad will happen

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Speaker 3: to us is something that's kind of baked into our brain.

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Speaker 1: Wow, and it is. As you were talking about how

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Speaker 1: we're social creatures, I was thinking back to what's his name,

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Speaker 1: the sociologist Dunbar Dunbar's number. Didn't he come up with

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Speaker 1: some idea that which I don't know if it's how

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Speaker 1: true it is, but I think his idea was that

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Speaker 1: humans best work in groups of one hundred and fifty

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Speaker 1: give or take. Yes, you know, where we all kind

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Speaker 1: of know who each other are and everyone's kind of

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Speaker 1: got their own role and yes, yeah, but yeah. And

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Speaker 1: it's interesting because in some ways, like in Melbourne where

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Speaker 1: I am and I live in Bayside Melbourne, I live

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Speaker 1: on the main street. I can walk out the front,

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Speaker 1: I say, one hundred people at the front, one hundred right,

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Speaker 1: So there's this juxtaposition or this dichotomy that you can

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Speaker 1: be in the middle of a million people and completely

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Speaker 1: alone at the same time.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

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Speaker 1: And that's really something that's like that's more now than ever.

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Speaker 3: Yes, Yeah, so we are extraordinarily complex creatures, and you

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Speaker 3: can see that because we have this very archaic, old,

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Speaker 3: very deep drive to get on and be with people.

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Speaker 2: That's kind of where we live.

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Speaker 3: But of course life's much more than just those basic instincts,

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Speaker 3: and so what happens for a lot of us is

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Speaker 3: that either we get into just accepting that we're stuck

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Speaker 3: with all of these people who live around us, or

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Speaker 3: what we get into, well, I'm just going to separate

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Speaker 3: myself off.

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Speaker 2: I don't want to be here. I'm going to do

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Speaker 2: something entirely.

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Speaker 3: We kind of rebel against that fundamental idea that was

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Speaker 3: initially baked into our brain.

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Speaker 2: And so what you.

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Speaker 3: See is, of course this funny kind of mix of

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Speaker 3: people who love and hate other people. You know, it's

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Speaker 3: that wonderful thing in organizations. You know, this would be

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Speaker 3: a brilliant hospital if it wasn't for the staff.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, it's like church is great except for the people

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Speaker 6: exactly exactly, and that really it's because we've got a

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Speaker 6: big brain, which makes very difficult birth.

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Speaker 2: But we've got a very big brain, and it gets

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Speaker 2: bigger and bigger.

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Speaker 3: We get into these this kind of questioning and this

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Speaker 3: kind of issue very easily. Yeah, because we think and

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Speaker 3: we know we think, and that is probably something that

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Speaker 3: animals don't do.

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Speaker 2: They clearly think, but they don't know they think.

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Speaker 3: So this issue of consciousness enables us to reflect in

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Speaker 3: a way that is enormously helpful, but it can be

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Speaker 3: hugely destructive.

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Speaker 1: I'm so interested in that as a I don't want

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Speaker 1: to go off at a tangent, but you know, thinking

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Speaker 1: about thinking that metacognitive journey right, just like that, and

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Speaker 1: then thinking about do dogs think, for example, And I'm like, well,

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Speaker 1: I guess they, you know, they solve problems, they figure

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Speaker 1: shit out. They exactly know that I know which person

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Speaker 1: go to and which person to avoids. So there's some

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Speaker 1: kind of cognitive function of some shape, Like there's some reasoning,

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Speaker 1: some rationale, there's some canine logic and deduction going on,

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Speaker 1: so they must think. I'm sure they don't think in

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Speaker 1: inverted commas the way that we do, but nonetheless there's

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Speaker 1: some kind of data processing and response, you know. Just

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Speaker 1: one of the things I like my PhD is in

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Speaker 1: a thing called meta accuracy and metapception, which is essentially

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Speaker 1: our ability to understand what it's like being around us.

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Speaker 1: So the question, like a really fundamental question at the

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Speaker 1: core of my research is what's the Craig experience like

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Speaker 1: for everyone else? What's the inexperience like, you know, what's

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Speaker 1: the inexperience like for Craig who's just met him for

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Speaker 1: the first time and they're sitting down they're doing this

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Speaker 1: thing right, Or what's the Craig experience like for the

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Speaker 1: thousands of people who hear this, the one hundred and

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Speaker 1: seventy five ladies that I had to chat to not

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Speaker 1: yesterday morning but the day before at the bloody Height

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Speaker 1: in Chadstone near you know, what's that? And so I'm

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Speaker 1: very fascinated with not only understanding myself, but understanding myself

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Speaker 1: for others. Not from the point of view of oh

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Speaker 1: do they like me? Am I popular? Am I? You know?

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Speaker 1: But rather going all right, like for me, trying to

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Speaker 1: understand you and to listen to you and watch a

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Speaker 1: bit of video with you on it and read some

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Speaker 1: stuff about you, but at the same time come in

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Speaker 1: being open so I can get to know you a

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Speaker 1: little bit and then build a level of rapport and

404
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Speaker 1: connection and in the moment kind of I don't know,

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Speaker 1: enjoyment that if I was really unaware and I didn't

406
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Speaker 1: have that lens of curiosity, I might not do and

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Speaker 1: I might not be able to do. What My long

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Speaker 1: winded kind of door that I'm opening, like is just

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Speaker 1: trying to understand that the way that I think is

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Speaker 1: only the way that I think. Yes, yes, it's not

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Speaker 1: the story. It's just my story about the story. It's

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Speaker 1: not the thing. It's just my interpretation of the thing.

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Speaker 1: But I feel like a lot of us travel through

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Speaker 1: life thinking that our thoughts are the objective reality.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes exactly. It's there's a theory

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Speaker 3: called the social construction of reality, which I'm sure you

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Speaker 3: are familiar with, and that is exactly that idea that,

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Speaker 3: of course we see the world through our own eyes,

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Speaker 3: but we can never really know what it is that

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Speaker 3: other people see and do. And we know, for example,

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Speaker 3: with you know, human conflict and lots and lots of

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Speaker 3: human issues, that people see things entirely differently. So you know,

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Speaker 3: you give someone a elevender flower and they will tell

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Speaker 3: you what the genus of the flower is. You give

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Speaker 3: it to a second person and they say that's my

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Speaker 3: grandmother's garden.

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Speaker 1: Wow. And someone else goes that stinks, and somebody else goes,

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Speaker 1: that's so beautiful, that's my soaper home exactly, and someone

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Speaker 1: else goes, I've got analogy to that? Shit, can you

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Speaker 1: get that out of the room?

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Speaker 2: Exactly right? Exactly right?

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Speaker 1: Like even the idea of when I do when I

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Speaker 1: talk to bosses and leaders and coaches, managers, mentors, all

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Speaker 1: of that, I often ask them, one, what do you

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Speaker 1: think it's like being around you? Not from a not

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Speaker 1: to throw them under their bus, and not from a

437
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:48,720
Speaker 1: critical perspective, but literally just from an awareness and a

438
00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:52,480
Speaker 1: curiosity perspective, because if you've got no idea, like if

439
00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:55,359
Speaker 1: you're in charge of fifty people and you've got no

440
00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:59,159
Speaker 1: idea how they perceive or experience or process you, Yes,

441
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:02,840
Speaker 1: then that's that's a problem for a range of reasons,

442
00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:06,320
Speaker 1: perhaps the most important being if you've got no idea

443
00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:09,679
Speaker 1: how you come across or how they see you, then

444
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:13,880
Speaker 1: how can you build rapport and connection and trust and respect? Yes, yes,

445
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:18,360
Speaker 1: because you're just talking, you know. And then tacked onto that,

446
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:23,160
Speaker 1: theory of mind is trying to understand broadly how other

447
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:27,360
Speaker 1: people think and someone else's experience, not just how they

448
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:30,720
Speaker 1: think about me, but period how they think so that

449
00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:34,760
Speaker 1: if I understand, because how people think to me, that's

450
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:38,120
Speaker 1: almost like their language. Yes, and if I can understand,

451
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:41,680
Speaker 1: not necessarily, not necessarily agree with or endorse or support,

452
00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:45,560
Speaker 1: but just understand or then I can build a bridge

453
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:46,360
Speaker 1: of communication.

454
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:49,200
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, exactly right, exactly right.

455
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:53,920
Speaker 3: So I'm an executive coach, and the fundamental principle of

456
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:57,760
Speaker 3: this kind of coaching is that we are not advisors.

457
00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:01,160
Speaker 3: We're not here to tell people what to do. We're

458
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:05,560
Speaker 3: here to ask people's ask people questions. And that might

459
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:08,960
Speaker 3: just sound all a bit wet and hopeless, but actually

460
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:13,399
Speaker 3: it's hugely powerful because what I know about you, Craig,

461
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:17,800
Speaker 3: is that I don't really understand what your problem is.

462
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:21,200
Speaker 3: I don't really understand what the challenges are you're facing.

463
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:24,960
Speaker 3: So unless I really listen carefully and I test out

464
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:28,320
Speaker 3: my understanding and I paraphrase and go back, is this

465
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:29,240
Speaker 3: what you mean, Craig?

466
00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:29,439
Speaker 1: Know?

467
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 2: Oh, okay, it's this what you mean?

468
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:35,800
Speaker 3: And then if I work with you so that I'm

469
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:38,399
Speaker 3: not saying, well, I think you should do this, Craig,

470
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:42,480
Speaker 3: and then you'll say, well, get lost, Noddy, what will

471
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:46,720
Speaker 3: what I'm going to say to you is something like, well,

472
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 3: actually Craig.

473
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:50,320
Speaker 2: If this problem didn't exist, if you.

474
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:56,800
Speaker 3: If you were able to float effortlessly through your PhD,

475
00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:01,920
Speaker 3: what would you be doing And you'd say to me, well,

476
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:03,840
Speaker 3: that's really interesting.

477
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:05,360
Speaker 2: Well, I'd probably get up.

478
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:08,679
Speaker 3: In the morning and you know, I'd be energized, and

479
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:12,560
Speaker 3: I'd get on and write and I would go to

480
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 3: my supervisor when I had something data. So we get

481
00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:21,040
Speaker 3: you to talk about your future, not focus on the

482
00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:22,200
Speaker 3: past and what's wrong.

483
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:25,200
Speaker 2: And you know your mother was horrible or your dad

484
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:26,440
Speaker 2: was horrible, whatever it is.

485
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:31,359
Speaker 3: We're really focused on what it is you want if

486
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:35,320
Speaker 3: you didn't have this impediment in place, And then once

487
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:39,960
Speaker 3: we can explore that, we can think about, well, okay,

488
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:43,240
Speaker 3: now we know what it is you want, what would

489
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:48,080
Speaker 3: it take for you to move just one step from

490
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:52,480
Speaker 3: where you are now to that goal? And so again

491
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:54,800
Speaker 3: we're not telling you what to do. We're trying to

492
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:59,480
Speaker 3: understand your world and exactly what motivates you. We're trying

493
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:03,359
Speaker 3: to see how you want to paint your the picture

494
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:06,840
Speaker 3: of your own future, and we're asking you to come

495
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:09,160
Speaker 3: up with the idea. Now, if you're completely stuck, I'll

496
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:13,639
Speaker 3: give you some ideas, that's fine, But my first efforts

497
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:19,240
Speaker 3: are always to see if I can find out what

498
00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:22,320
Speaker 3: you think would work. And the reason for that, Craig,

499
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:25,840
Speaker 3: is that if I tell you something, you're going to

500
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:29,680
Speaker 3: say get lost. If I suggest a whole.

501
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:32,359
Speaker 2: Lot of things, they might or might not be wrong.

502
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:35,600
Speaker 3: If you come up with a solution, you're going to

503
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:39,200
Speaker 3: be motivated to do it. It fits with your lifestyle,

504
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:42,680
Speaker 3: with your understanding with everything. So the chances of you

505
00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:47,520
Speaker 3: succeeding with your own solution are huge. The chances of

506
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:51,160
Speaker 3: you succeeding with my advice is very small.

507
00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:54,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love it, and I also love the awareness

508
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:57,160
Speaker 1: and the humility that you have with that, right because

509
00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:00,880
Speaker 1: you're not saying to anyone, Hey, everyone, I've got a PhD.

510
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:03,040
Speaker 1: I've got a master's degree, I'm an undergrad on this.

511
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:05,920
Speaker 1: I'm that I've done this, and so fucking hell, I'm great.

512
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:09,320
Speaker 1: Get on board. You're saying all I am is a resource.

513
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:12,800
Speaker 1: And I say that to people all the time, even

514
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:14,760
Speaker 1: when people say to me, you change my life, which

515
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:16,600
Speaker 1: I get every now and then, which is very lovely

516
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:20,080
Speaker 1: but inaccurate, And I say, I really appreciate that, but

517
00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:23,360
Speaker 1: I didn't because I didn't do any of the work.

518
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 1: I didn't get up early, I didn't deal with the discomfort,

519
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:29,960
Speaker 1: I didn't make the decisions. I wasn't courageous. You did

520
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:33,840
Speaker 1: all of that. I'm just by the way. I've done

521
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:35,959
Speaker 1: the same thing for lots of people that got fucking

522
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:39,400
Speaker 1: no results or not the same quality of results. And

523
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:42,720
Speaker 1: neither was that my fault, right, And so I'm not

524
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 1: the answer and I'm not the problem. I'm a resource

525
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:49,840
Speaker 1: and at times I'm just a conduit towards advice and

526
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 1: wisdom and insight and knowledge that none of it is

527
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:57,640
Speaker 1: mine anyway. I'm just I'm just like the pathway. I'm

528
00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:01,520
Speaker 1: just pulling back on the curtain shit that's already there.

529
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:07,640
Speaker 1: And I think that that that idea of, or that

530
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:10,200
Speaker 1: approach of. And this is what I've always tried to

531
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:11,960
Speaker 1: do with this show and with the people that I

532
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:15,360
Speaker 1: work with, is to go, hey, you're fucking amazing. Let's

533
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:18,040
Speaker 1: just see if we can find the key. Let's see

534
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:21,080
Speaker 1: if we can just figure out what you're doing. It's working,

535
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:23,520
Speaker 1: and it's not working. There's no self loathing in that,

536
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 1: there's just self awareness and acknowledgment. But we can't fix

537
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 1: the thing that we can't see or we can't you know,

538
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:32,520
Speaker 1: we can't get better at what we're not doing, so

539
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:34,480
Speaker 1: what we need to do more of and less of.

540
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:41,320
Speaker 3: So yeah, that's that's another fundamental principle of coaching that

541
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:44,560
Speaker 3: the client at any moment is just.

542
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:47,040
Speaker 2: A few steps away from success.

543
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:52,280
Speaker 3: And so when when they develop an action plan and

544
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:54,239
Speaker 3: they okay, we'll meet in the months and see how

545
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 3: it goes, and they come back and they say, well,

546
00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 3: I completely failed.

547
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:01,160
Speaker 2: You know, my reaction immediately is Wow, we're going to

548
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:02,160
Speaker 2: learn a lot today.

549
00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 3: That's fantastic because now we know what doesn't work. So

550
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:10,800
Speaker 3: we're chipping away at what actually is unproductive and that

551
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:14,080
Speaker 3: will help us a great deal to work and to

552
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:17,920
Speaker 3: identify and to work and to find things that do

553
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:20,920
Speaker 3: actually work for you. Let's talk about why it failed,

554
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 3: not exactly as you say, not in terms of whether

555
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:25,280
Speaker 3: you're a naughty boy and you should have.

556
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:27,440
Speaker 2: Done your homework, but much more in the.

557
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:33,520
Speaker 3: Sense of, you know, was the goal unrealistic or did

558
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:36,800
Speaker 3: you have other priorities? Is this not that important, or

559
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:40,920
Speaker 3: is this something that maybe you need some support from

560
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:44,400
Speaker 3: other people to get through, or are there some skills

561
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:47,240
Speaker 3: here that I could teach you which would really help

562
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:50,760
Speaker 3: you move forward, or can I suggest some reading whatever

563
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 3: it is?

564
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:55,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love it. And also I guess the fact

565
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 1: in that, you know, even if five people turn up

566
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 1: to you and they've got what seems to be the

567
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:06,680
Speaker 1: same or very similar challenge, right, You've got five different people,

568
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:13,360
Speaker 1: five different backgrounds, five different personalities, psychology, physiology, emotion, belief systems, experiences,

569
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:17,760
Speaker 1: blah blah blah, personal beliefs and values and whatever. Right then,

570
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:22,640
Speaker 1: And it's not like, oh, you're all grieving, okay, you're

571
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:25,520
Speaker 1: all going through grief. Oh that's no good. Let me

572
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:28,040
Speaker 1: just I'll just I've got my filing cabital. I'll just

573
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 1: grab the four Steps to Grief. It's an a four

574
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:35,360
Speaker 1: handout to recovering from grief or navigating grief. There's only

575
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:38,840
Speaker 1: four steps. It's one hundred and fifty bucks, by the way,

576
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:42,200
Speaker 1: and I'll just do a photocopy for each of you.

577
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 1: And now you're you know, obviously that's fucking ridiculous. And

578
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:50,200
Speaker 1: as ridiculous as that is, it's also kind of happening

579
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:57,240
Speaker 1: where people are selling almost like a generic solution to

580
00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:01,320
Speaker 1: what seems to be the same issue you but it

581
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 1: isn't really because every person It's like I was talking

582
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:08,800
Speaker 1: to somebody yesterday about career, right, and I said, look, well, look,

583
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:11,800
Speaker 1: the ideal career for me was to stop working for

584
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:14,880
Speaker 1: other people when I was twenty four. So I don't

585
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:17,320
Speaker 1: have a holiday pay or sick pay. I haven't had

586
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 1: a job or a boss for over thirty years, thirty

587
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:24,840
Speaker 1: five years. And it's very vulnerable. And some months I

588
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:27,480
Speaker 1: make great dough, and some months I make not much dough,

589
00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:30,400
Speaker 1: And there's the I guess, there's risk, and there's discomfort,

590
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:34,120
Speaker 1: and there's uncertainty, and there's unpredictability. I love all that shit,

591
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:38,240
Speaker 1: but most people fucking hate it. So for me it's

592
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:41,920
Speaker 1: the perfect paradigm, and for others it would keep them

593
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:44,760
Speaker 1: awake every night. So it's trying to figure out what

594
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:46,760
Speaker 1: it is for that individual.

595
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:51,840
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, yes, that's exactly the essence of it. And

596
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 3: what we know about coaching is that. And there are

597
00:33:56,920 --> 00:34:00,520
Speaker 3: lots and lots of different schools of coaching and approaches coaching,

598
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:03,480
Speaker 3: and some you know, emphasize this, and some emphasize that

599
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:04,040
Speaker 3: and so on.

600
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:06,280
Speaker 2: But what we know is that.

601
00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:11,160
Speaker 3: The single biggest success factor, by far is the quality

602
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:15,839
Speaker 3: of the relationship between you and the client. So what

603
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:19,560
Speaker 3: does that mean. That means the client feels heard. That

604
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:25,240
Speaker 3: means the client feels like you understand them. It feels

605
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:29,520
Speaker 3: like there's a degree of warmth and empathy and understanding

606
00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:34,279
Speaker 3: and support, and that the agenda for the session is

607
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:37,600
Speaker 3: not you and you're a four piece of paper, it's

608
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:39,640
Speaker 3: me and what I'm struggling with.

609
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:44,239
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, I love that, And I mean and I

610
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:47,000
Speaker 1: always say this to people, you know, because as I

611
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:51,680
Speaker 1: told you earlier, you know, my background started in gym's right.

612
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:55,080
Speaker 1: My original degree was exercise science, and I started, you know,

613
00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:57,759
Speaker 1: just doing all the shit that I did, and I

614
00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:01,040
Speaker 1: ended up employing five hundred personal training as myself and

615
00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:03,719
Speaker 1: had multiple gyms and all of that stuff. But I

616
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:07,200
Speaker 1: used to say to my trainers, Yeah, we need to

617
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:10,719
Speaker 1: understand anatomy and physiology and biomechanics and energy systems and

618
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:15,440
Speaker 1: nutrition and fucking periodization and all these things. Right, but

619
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:20,600
Speaker 1: also at the same time, care about your clients, and

620
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:25,319
Speaker 1: don't pretend to care, because it's good pr actually care

621
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:29,240
Speaker 1: like that you being a good human and having compassion

622
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 1: and empathy and awareness and kindness and over delivering and underpromising, right,

623
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:38,960
Speaker 1: you can still have a great career and make great

624
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:42,520
Speaker 1: dough and be an awesome human being. It doesn't need

625
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:43,640
Speaker 1: to be one or the other.

626
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:48,040
Speaker 3: You know, yes, yes, yeah, yeah, no, exactly right. I mean,

627
00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:52,480
Speaker 3: I think the thing that happens in coaching is that

628
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:58,160
Speaker 3: because people are finding their own solutions, they will only

629
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:02,520
Speaker 3: do that. They will only be prepared to look and

630
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:06,359
Speaker 3: to explore things one if they feel safe. So you're

631
00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:08,040
Speaker 3: not going to laugh at them, You're not going to

632
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:09,920
Speaker 3: tell them what to do, you're not going to belittle them.

633
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:12,640
Speaker 2: You're going to support them in this. But on the

634
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:14,880
Speaker 2: other hand, you're going to be you're going to challenge.

635
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:17,320
Speaker 4: Them as well. So there's something called empathetic challenge.

636
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:21,120
Speaker 3: So you know, I hear you are understand you, but look,

637
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:24,680
Speaker 3: I hear that what you're saying is you never have

638
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:25,680
Speaker 3: time to improve.

639
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 2: Is that right? Maybe maybe you don't want to improve.

640
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:31,400
Speaker 2: I don't know, tell me.

641
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:32,040
Speaker 1: You know.

642
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:36,440
Speaker 3: So, So it's not just all Mandy Pandy, you know,

643
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:40,759
Speaker 3: supportive kind of stuff, how great you are. It is

644
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:44,840
Speaker 3: understanding what the person wants and what they've come for

645
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:48,600
Speaker 3: and what they're paying for, and at times pushing them

646
00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:52,520
Speaker 3: quite hard. But you can only do that from a

647
00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:57,200
Speaker 3: position of trust. And support and understanding and empathy.

648
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:01,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, one hundred percent. Yeah, because that's right. You might

649
00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:04,920
Speaker 1: say to me, who I think is reasonably mentally and

650
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:08,200
Speaker 1: emotionally robust. You might go, hey, Craig, you know I

651
00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:11,480
Speaker 1: reckon your ace, but you're kind of bullshitting yourself. You're

652
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:15,240
Speaker 1: bullshitting yourself, mate, because we've had this discussion thirteen times

653
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:20,959
Speaker 1: and here's the evidence. You go, so, and I go, yeah,

654
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:24,920
Speaker 1: I know, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right, You're right, I've

655
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:27,280
Speaker 1: got I could come up with bullshit, but it's bullshit.

656
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:32,000
Speaker 1: But you couldn't say that to someone else, perhaps depending

657
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:34,359
Speaker 1: on the person of the day, the personality, the relationship.

658
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:38,000
Speaker 1: And that's the beauty of See, this is the thing, right,

659
00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:40,600
Speaker 1: how do we get more of you? Though I don't

660
00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:42,640
Speaker 1: mean this to sound I was thinking about it before,

661
00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:44,560
Speaker 1: Like I was reading your bio I was written about you.

662
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:47,960
Speaker 1: I'm like, this fuck is the most qualified coach in

663
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:51,319
Speaker 1: the world. I'm like, there ain't too many coaches that

664
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 1: have got an undergrad of Masters and a PhD and

665
00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:58,480
Speaker 1: the vast There are others, of course, of course, but

666
00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:00,279
Speaker 1: you're a little bit of a unicorn. I mean, you

667
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:03,200
Speaker 1: would be one in a thousand. If there's a thousand coaches,

668
00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:05,640
Speaker 1: there's probably one in a thousand that have got similar

669
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:07,759
Speaker 1: qulls to you. Maybe it's one in a hundred, I

670
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:11,960
Speaker 1: don't know, so when and this is quite a maybe

671
00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:16,879
Speaker 1: a bland kind of cheese sandwich question, but shout out

672
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:21,560
Speaker 1: to the cheese sandwichis if somebody wants a coach other

673
00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:24,919
Speaker 1: than you, we're going to plug all your stuff later

674
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:27,680
Speaker 1: so people can access you. But in general terms, it's

675
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:30,160
Speaker 1: like when people say to me, how do I find

676
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:32,560
Speaker 1: a good trainer, I'm like, I've got a bit of

677
00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:35,920
Speaker 1: a list, right, which and it doesn't doesn't necessarily mean

678
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:38,319
Speaker 1: they've got to be super duper qualified, by the way,

679
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:42,120
Speaker 1: But if somebody says, ian I would love to work

680
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:44,839
Speaker 1: with someone, what are the things that I should look

681
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:49,239
Speaker 1: for in a coach? Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah.

682
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:50,520
Speaker 2: So that's a great question.

683
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:53,399
Speaker 3: And my answer to that is always, well, how did

684
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:57,759
Speaker 3: you find your dentist? Because the important thing about the

685
00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:00,720
Speaker 3: dentist is you wouldn't want to go on to the internet.

686
00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:03,080
Speaker 3: You wouldn't want to look for the cheapest dentist in

687
00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:05,720
Speaker 3: the city. You wouldn't want to look for the best

688
00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:09,680
Speaker 3: looking dentist or et cetera, et cetera. What you'd wanted

689
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:11,400
Speaker 3: to do is go and talk to a few people

690
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:15,239
Speaker 3: and say probably two things, how are your teeth and

691
00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:16,760
Speaker 3: what are you thinking a dentist?

692
00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:17,759
Speaker 2: So what?

693
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:21,239
Speaker 3: And that's exactly the same process for a coach. What

694
00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:23,240
Speaker 3: you need to do is talk to a few people

695
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:30,600
Speaker 3: and ask them one what are they like? And how

696
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:34,399
Speaker 3: are you like them? Have you got challenges like them?

697
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:36,839
Speaker 3: And if they have had a coach and they've got

698
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:40,239
Speaker 3: challenges like you and it's being useful, then that's the

699
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:41,120
Speaker 3: place to start.

700
00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:46,080
Speaker 1: Yeah. I also think like I used to say to people,

701
00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:49,799
Speaker 1: even people who came to my facilities, right because we

702
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:54,000
Speaker 1: didn't have members or memberships. Everything was appointment based, and

703
00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:57,359
Speaker 1: I would say, look, don't sign up for anything. In fact,

704
00:39:57,360 --> 00:39:59,360
Speaker 1: you can't sign up, so don't worry about it. And

705
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:02,200
Speaker 1: they'd be like, I go, no, there's no memberships, there's

706
00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:05,840
Speaker 1: no contracts. If you do one session with me or

707
00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:08,279
Speaker 1: one of my trainers and you don't like it, not

708
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:10,160
Speaker 1: only do you not have to come back, I'll give

709
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:12,239
Speaker 1: you all your money back, right, And people are like,

710
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:14,440
Speaker 1: I go there, so I don't want you to be

711
00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:16,239
Speaker 1: here unless it works for you. I don't want to

712
00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:18,400
Speaker 1: twist your arm. I don't want to leave you or

713
00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:21,440
Speaker 1: manipulate you into a contract or some kind of financial

714
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:25,040
Speaker 1: obligation that you're unhappy with. And that works for me.

715
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:28,080
Speaker 1: So how about we do this. How about you do

716
00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:31,200
Speaker 1: a session and if you like it, or if you

717
00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:33,840
Speaker 1: think it's worthwhile, or you think it's a good investment,

718
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:36,839
Speaker 1: then do another one. And if you don't, don't. And

719
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:39,280
Speaker 1: then if you end up doing five hundred or five

720
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:43,479
Speaker 1: or none, and people are like really, I go, yeah,

721
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:47,600
Speaker 1: of course, like we did the opposite of hard selling,

722
00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:53,520
Speaker 1: Like there was nothing manipulative. And there were times when,

723
00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:56,120
Speaker 1: if I'm being honest, people will do a session and

724
00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:59,520
Speaker 1: not because it was bad. They're just like, I get it,

725
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:01,239
Speaker 1: but I think, I think I would rather just join

726
00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:04,520
Speaker 1: a gym and do my own thing. And more than

727
00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:06,560
Speaker 1: a few times I said, great, where do you live?

728
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:09,520
Speaker 1: And then I would point them towards a gym where

729
00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:11,600
Speaker 1: they could go and get a regular gym membership and

730
00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:14,960
Speaker 1: do their own thing. And also more than a few

731
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:18,200
Speaker 1: times those people came back and went, I actually hated it.

732
00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:21,280
Speaker 1: I think I want to work out with a trainer,

733
00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:25,239
Speaker 1: and yeah, it's like I think if you have to

734
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:29,439
Speaker 1: leverage people or coerce people or manipulate people, you must

735
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:31,080
Speaker 1: be fucking terrible at your job.

736
00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:34,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I have exactly the same in my terms

737
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:37,040
Speaker 3: and conditions. It basically says, if you're not satisfied with

738
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:39,960
Speaker 3: the surface with the service, I'll refund your money.

739
00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:42,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, agreed.

740
00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:45,279
Speaker 2: So yeah, and exactly this.

741
00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:51,200
Speaker 3: I do have some work, mostly with senior leaders, where

742
00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:54,640
Speaker 3: we do an assessment and they plan out this kind

743
00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:56,239
Speaker 3: of things they want to work on, and then we

744
00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:58,160
Speaker 3: have a contract for a year where we work on

745
00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:02,120
Speaker 3: those things. But obviously they can still withdraw at any time.

746
00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:06,400
Speaker 3: So I totally agree with you this. You know, learning

747
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:11,440
Speaker 3: is about feeling comfortable, is about knowing that you're addressing

748
00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:13,520
Speaker 3: your issues you're not.

749
00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:16,239
Speaker 2: It's kind of going back to the beginning of the conversation.

750
00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:18,279
Speaker 3: You know, I think at then, the beginning of my life,

751
00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:21,759
Speaker 3: I was living out my father's ideal and not that

752
00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:23,959
Speaker 3: you said it at all, and I don't really even

753
00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:26,319
Speaker 3: know whether it was his ideal, but it was what

754
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:30,160
Speaker 3: I thought is I considered to be his ideal.

755
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:32,960
Speaker 2: So you know, it's exactly that issue.

756
00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:35,480
Speaker 3: It has to be about you and what you want,

757
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:39,759
Speaker 3: and of course what you want isn't necessarily such a

758
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:40,760
Speaker 3: simple thing.

759
00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:43,279
Speaker 2: Because you know, we're all.

760
00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:46,280
Speaker 4: There's lots of forces on us, and there's lots of expectations,

761
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:49,920
Speaker 4: and there's different drives and we can have conflicting motives

762
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:50,440
Speaker 4: and so on.

763
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:54,359
Speaker 2: So but absolutely it's about your agenda and.

764
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:57,320
Speaker 3: If you're not comfortable, and if we're not making progress,

765
00:42:57,520 --> 00:42:59,360
Speaker 3: then we're wasting both about time.

766
00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:04,520
Speaker 1: How often somebody that you work with, or even somebody

767
00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:07,479
Speaker 1: you just talk with like they want a certain thing.

768
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:12,560
Speaker 1: This happened many times with me with clients but also myself,

769
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:15,360
Speaker 1: where I thought I wanted a thing and then I

770
00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:18,239
Speaker 1: got to the top of that mountain and I went, ah,

771
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:21,719
Speaker 1: I'm on the wrong mountain. I think it's that one

772
00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:25,560
Speaker 1: over there, and it's not that where I got was bad.

773
00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:28,719
Speaker 1: And by the when I say mountain, I'm not being grandiose.

774
00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:30,960
Speaker 1: I just mean I did the thing that I wanted

775
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:32,759
Speaker 1: to do, or I got the thing I wanted, or

776
00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:35,520
Speaker 1: I achieved it, or I ticked that box, or i'd

777
00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:37,520
Speaker 1: lost that weight, or I built that muscle, or I

778
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:40,160
Speaker 1: built that brand, or I earned that whatever it was.

779
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:44,120
Speaker 1: And I think there's this kind of human thing that

780
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:48,120
Speaker 1: we think when we get this external result that there

781
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:53,000
Speaker 1: will be this internal reality or shift or response that's

782
00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:56,120
Speaker 1: going to be somewhere in the ballpark of Nirvana and

783
00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:57,680
Speaker 1: we're like, ah, that wasn't it.

784
00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:00,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, So a couple of comments is one of

785
00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:04,279
Speaker 3: the things I don't like about the coaching profession is

786
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:09,880
Speaker 3: this idea that everybody should have three or four coaches

787
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:13,200
Speaker 3: and they should talk to them for fifteen minutes, and

788
00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:16,440
Speaker 3: they should on the basis of that, they should pick. Now,

789
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:19,719
Speaker 3: I really hate that kind of thing. It's kind of

790
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:23,120
Speaker 3: I see it as almost sort of forced selling, and

791
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:25,799
Speaker 3: that's not me. I don't feel comfortable. Come and see me.

792
00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:28,040
Speaker 3: I'm happy if you don't like it. I won't charge

793
00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:30,680
Speaker 3: you anything for the session. But I hate being in

794
00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:34,960
Speaker 3: some kind of competitive sort of process with other people.

795
00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:39,920
Speaker 3: So yeah, I mean that's just kind of me. And fortunately,

796
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:43,799
Speaker 3: you know, ninety nine percent of my clients are you know,

797
00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:46,880
Speaker 3: they come as a direct referral and so they want

798
00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:50,840
Speaker 3: to they want to be here. So of those people,

799
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:53,680
Speaker 3: so I do very badly in the sales pitch. I'm

800
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:58,480
Speaker 3: deeply hopeless. I did five pitches for an accounting firm

801
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:00,920
Speaker 3: a little bit last year, and I didn't get a

802
00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:01,680
Speaker 3: single client.

803
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:06,160
Speaker 1: Well, that kind of makes me happy and sad or

804
00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:08,319
Speaker 1: I'm sad that you didn't get it, but I'm kind

805
00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:11,400
Speaker 1: of happy that you shit at that, because I'm the

806
00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:15,839
Speaker 1: same like I have on my Instagram. In the last

807
00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:19,520
Speaker 1: thirty days, I've had three million people, three million views, right,

808
00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:22,560
Speaker 1: so I have a lot of traffic. Yes, yes, But

809
00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:24,600
Speaker 1: I hate it when I've got to put up a

810
00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:28,000
Speaker 1: post Melissa who runs my life, and we'll probably edit

811
00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:31,680
Speaker 1: this shout out to Melissa, I fucking hate it. I'm

812
00:45:31,680 --> 00:45:33,560
Speaker 1: going to call you, doc because you deserve it, because

813
00:45:33,560 --> 00:45:37,520
Speaker 1: you're a PhD doc. I hate it when I've got

814
00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:39,640
Speaker 1: to go, hey, everyone, I've got a new mentoring program

815
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:42,520
Speaker 1: because it starts on April twenty eighth, bah blah blah.

816
00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:45,360
Speaker 1: And I'm like, and I'm not doing anything wrong or bad,

817
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:49,680
Speaker 1: but I'd rather I'd definitely rather just say something silly

818
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:53,319
Speaker 1: or fun or something interesting, like I'm not but I

819
00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:57,960
Speaker 1: think that you know, and like, I don't know. This

820
00:45:58,120 --> 00:46:00,399
Speaker 1: is probably a dumb perspective, but the fact that I'm

821
00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:03,080
Speaker 1: still insecure at times, the fact that i still feel

822
00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:06,440
Speaker 1: like an imposter sometimes I don't mind that because it

823
00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:09,200
Speaker 1: keeps me grounded. I feel like the moment that I

824
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:11,680
Speaker 1: think I'm ace, I'm in trouble.

825
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:13,200
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.

826
00:46:13,239 --> 00:46:16,080
Speaker 3: And that's a really important part of coaching, which is

827
00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:21,600
Speaker 3: really this idea that we often come to to a

828
00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:24,920
Speaker 3: coach or a therapist or a counselor or whatever, and

829
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:26,840
Speaker 3: we kind of have this idea that we hate this

830
00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:28,800
Speaker 3: emotion and we just want to get rid of it.

831
00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:32,160
Speaker 2: And very often that is just completely impossible. You know.

832
00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:33,279
Speaker 2: It's a bit like.

833
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:38,160
Speaker 3: Making a you know what's sometimes called a dead person's goal.

834
00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:40,719
Speaker 3: You know, I'll go to the gym every day, i

835
00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:43,160
Speaker 3: won't eat chocolate again, I'll never have another drink, all

836
00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:46,560
Speaker 3: that kind of stuff, and they're really really difficult, and

837
00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:51,960
Speaker 3: that actually if we are in a very different mindset

838
00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:58,480
Speaker 3: where we actually say, well, this impostor syndrome actually has

839
00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:01,880
Speaker 3: some advantages. You know, it's not not an all bad thing. Actually,

840
00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:03,440
Speaker 3: it keeps me on my toes.

841
00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:09,239
Speaker 4: And when it happens, I'm going to start talking to

842
00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:12,800
Speaker 4: it and I'm going to say, hey, mister, mister big doubt,

843
00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:16,080
Speaker 4: I want to listen to you for a while.

844
00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:18,960
Speaker 2: But let me tell you now, I'm not going to

845
00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:22,560
Speaker 2: listen to you for two hours. You're going to have

846
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:23,000
Speaker 2: you say.

847
00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:25,600
Speaker 3: You can remind me about things, you can caution me

848
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:28,480
Speaker 3: about the risks. You can warn me that I better

849
00:47:28,520 --> 00:47:31,360
Speaker 3: be prepared and that I better know what I'm talking about.

850
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:33,920
Speaker 3: But after that, I want you to go away. So

851
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:38,520
Speaker 3: this whole idea that emotions are not something that are

852
00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:42,319
Speaker 3: good and bad to be accepted or rejected. Emotions are

853
00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:46,200
Speaker 3: just the carpet we walk on. This is the fundamental

854
00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:49,640
Speaker 3: aspect of being human.

855
00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:54,760
Speaker 4: But the thing about them is that they are because

856
00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:55,959
Speaker 4: they're neither good or bad.

857
00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:58,319
Speaker 2: If we can start to just say, well, okay, yes

858
00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:01,520
Speaker 2: that's me, I'm like that, I get angry or I

859
00:48:01,960 --> 00:48:02,759
Speaker 2: et cetera, et cetera.

860
00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:07,080
Speaker 4: Once we've started to be aware of it and accept it,

861
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:07,960
Speaker 4: then we're.

862
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:11,359
Speaker 3: On the road to change. If we hate it, we

863
00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:12,600
Speaker 3: tend to make it worse.

864
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:17,280
Speaker 4: You can't punish yourself out of anxiety.

865
00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:24,560
Speaker 1: Oh that's so interesting. And also I guess like I

866
00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:30,200
Speaker 1: can simultaneously feel not good enough while knowing intellectually I

867
00:48:30,239 --> 00:48:33,920
Speaker 1: am yeah. Yeah, So those things can coexist. You know.

868
00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:36,600
Speaker 1: It's like I can I've said this before on the show,

869
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:38,160
Speaker 1: but I can get up and I'm about to do

870
00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:42,719
Speaker 1: a presentation and part of me is like, well, this

871
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:44,120
Speaker 1: is the day that you're going to fuck up and

872
00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:46,720
Speaker 1: everyone's going to realize that you've just been really lucky,

873
00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:51,399
Speaker 1: so far good at this, and today you'll be exposed

874
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:54,440
Speaker 1: for the dud that you are. Right, there's that, and

875
00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:59,400
Speaker 1: then there's my prefrontal cortex that's going, well, you know,

876
00:48:59,640 --> 00:49:03,200
Speaker 1: you've this a lot, and you get paid pretty well

877
00:49:03,239 --> 00:49:05,239
Speaker 1: and people ask you to come back, so you're not

878
00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:07,760
Speaker 1: fucking terrible, so shut up, yes.

879
00:49:07,719 --> 00:49:08,839
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, that's right.

880
00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:12,880
Speaker 3: And a lot of coaching is helping people to bring

881
00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:18,440
Speaker 3: that dialogue out in the open because whilst that whilst

882
00:49:18,719 --> 00:49:22,360
Speaker 3: you know, mister big failure is there chirping away in

883
00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:26,120
Speaker 3: the background, it's very difficult to do anything about it.

884
00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:28,960
Speaker 3: So there are lots of really interesting things. One a

885
00:49:29,120 --> 00:49:32,200
Speaker 3: very simple technique is called the talking back diary, and

886
00:49:32,239 --> 00:49:34,600
Speaker 3: it's worth anybody doing it. And you just get a

887
00:49:34,600 --> 00:49:37,320
Speaker 3: bit of paper a screen, draw a line down the middle,

888
00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:39,600
Speaker 3: and you put in a critic on one side and

889
00:49:39,680 --> 00:49:41,719
Speaker 3: in a coach on the other. So what's my inner

890
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:43,879
Speaker 3: critic saying, well, you're lucky and they're going to find

891
00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:46,480
Speaker 3: you out today? What is it? So you actually make

892
00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:50,399
Speaker 3: it explicit and clear and direct, and when we do that,

893
00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:55,840
Speaker 3: we transform our lives because we are no longer driven

894
00:49:56,040 --> 00:50:00,000
Speaker 3: by these unconscious or semi conscious feelings and things.

895
00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:04,000
Speaker 2: We can be deliberate, we can be explicit, we can choose.

896
00:50:04,120 --> 00:50:08,839
Speaker 2: We're free from all of that stuff that holds us back.

897
00:50:09,360 --> 00:50:10,839
Speaker 2: And you know, but of.

898
00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:13,440
Speaker 3: Course I'm just as neurotic as you mate, so and

899
00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:14,520
Speaker 3: I'm still working on it.

900
00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:16,840
Speaker 2: I'm not saying that I'm there by any means.

901
00:50:17,239 --> 00:50:19,600
Speaker 1: You know, we're all worksome, but you'll work.

902
00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:21,680
Speaker 3: Talk about my book soon, and you can you'll be

903
00:50:21,719 --> 00:50:24,040
Speaker 3: able to see that I'm a neurotic over a jeeva.

904
00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:27,239
Speaker 1: That's all good, bro, that's all good. And that's why.

905
00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:29,520
Speaker 1: You know, the person that I get on the show

906
00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:31,759
Speaker 1: that pretends they've got all their shit together and they

907
00:50:31,840 --> 00:50:35,040
Speaker 1: don't have any flaws or faults, well, firstly, that person's

908
00:50:35,080 --> 00:50:39,320
Speaker 1: never getting on the show. Hey, you're great, you're great.

909
00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:42,239
Speaker 1: We've got to wind up, but you're great. I'm going

910
00:50:42,239 --> 00:50:44,040
Speaker 1: to get you back if you'd like to come back.

911
00:50:44,440 --> 00:50:48,879
Speaker 1: There's so much, so much we could talk about. Tell

912
00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:52,560
Speaker 1: people about your books, if you've got a website where

913
00:50:52,600 --> 00:50:56,640
Speaker 1: they can connect with you, and yeah, let's let's do

914
00:50:56,719 --> 00:50:59,560
Speaker 1: the let's do the blurb because you definitely are worth

915
00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:00,160
Speaker 1: connecting with.

916
00:51:00,760 --> 00:51:04,440
Speaker 2: So my website is Ian McCormick dot net.

917
00:51:04,640 --> 00:51:07,719
Speaker 3: So I'm a little bit hard to find in so

918
00:51:07,880 --> 00:51:12,040
Speaker 3: far as Ian is the GAELICAI N and McCormick is

919
00:51:12,239 --> 00:51:14,120
Speaker 3: mc c O R M I C gabe and I'm

920
00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:14,680
Speaker 3: sure you'll.

921
00:51:14,560 --> 00:51:15,200
Speaker 2: Let people know.

922
00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:19,360
Speaker 3: And currently I've got three books out so one so

923
00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:22,000
Speaker 3: they're all about coaching. So the first book is really

924
00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:28,320
Speaker 3: about how coaches can improve by spending time after sessions

925
00:51:28,440 --> 00:51:32,760
Speaker 3: reflecting on them what happened, what went well, what didn't

926
00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:35,879
Speaker 3: go well, and how do I want to improve and

927
00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:41,200
Speaker 3: doing that explicitly and systematically. So that book is called

928
00:51:41,239 --> 00:51:46,760
Speaker 3: Reflective Practice for Coaches. The second book is called Schemer

929
00:51:46,840 --> 00:51:49,600
Speaker 3: Coaching Overcoming Deep Seated.

930
00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:51,680
Speaker 2: Challenges, and it's really about.

931
00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:56,200
Speaker 3: So we were talking before about this idea that humans

932
00:51:56,320 --> 00:51:59,279
Speaker 3: have these deep seated messages like we have to get

933
00:51:59,320 --> 00:52:01,360
Speaker 3: on with, we have to please other people, et cetera.

934
00:52:01,719 --> 00:52:04,400
Speaker 3: And it's about dealing with those kinds of challenges.

935
00:52:04,520 --> 00:52:06,480
Speaker 2: So, for example, I.

936
00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:08,759
Speaker 3: Work with a lot of people who are accountants and

937
00:52:08,840 --> 00:52:11,440
Speaker 3: lawyers and so on, and they work in an environment

938
00:52:11,600 --> 00:52:15,440
Speaker 3: of huge pressure where the demands are vasked, and so

939
00:52:15,560 --> 00:52:20,360
Speaker 3: many of them suffer from what we call unrelenting striving.

940
00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:24,320
Speaker 3: Nothing is good enough next year. You know, a lawyer

941
00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:26,239
Speaker 3: recently said, you know, the end of the year is

942
00:52:26,239 --> 00:52:28,560
Speaker 3: a little bit like the rock rolling down to the

943
00:52:28,560 --> 00:52:31,440
Speaker 3: bottom of the hill, and it's it's you know, I'm

944
00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:33,640
Speaker 3: back where I started. I've got to start rolling it up,

945
00:52:33,719 --> 00:52:36,280
Speaker 3: et cetera. So that kind of syndeme. And the third

946
00:52:36,280 --> 00:52:44,080
Speaker 3: book is about the idea that most professionals spend a

947
00:52:44,239 --> 00:52:47,400
Speaker 3: huge amount of time and effort in money every year

948
00:52:49,200 --> 00:52:52,879
Speaker 3: developing themselves their skills and abilities.

949
00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:56,160
Speaker 2: But actually, and if we just take psychotherapist, there's been

950
00:52:56,200 --> 00:52:57,120
Speaker 2: a lot of research done.

951
00:52:57,200 --> 00:53:02,200
Speaker 3: Then if we take a a look at client outcome,

952
00:53:02,280 --> 00:53:05,040
Speaker 3: So how well do your clients do, and we look

953
00:53:05,080 --> 00:53:07,759
Speaker 3: at how many years of experience you've had and how.

954
00:53:07,719 --> 00:53:10,680
Speaker 4: Much profession therefore how much professional development you've had, et cetera.

955
00:53:11,120 --> 00:53:14,240
Speaker 4: The correlation between those two is zero zip.

956
00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:15,320
Speaker 1: Wow.

957
00:53:15,880 --> 00:53:20,000
Speaker 3: You but your therapist is just as likely to be

958
00:53:20,560 --> 00:53:26,160
Speaker 3: effective three years out of clinical psychology school as thirty years.

959
00:53:27,239 --> 00:53:28,800
Speaker 1: Wow. That's super interesting.

960
00:53:29,840 --> 00:53:33,719
Speaker 3: But of course that's on average, and not everybody's like that.

961
00:53:34,120 --> 00:53:36,240
Speaker 3: So how do you actually.

962
00:53:36,360 --> 00:53:40,279
Speaker 4: Progress in a profession, how do you actually really learn.

963
00:53:40,680 --> 00:53:42,000
Speaker 2: And get better and better?

964
00:53:42,080 --> 00:53:46,839
Speaker 3: And I look at some examples and history and some

965
00:53:47,719 --> 00:53:50,239
Speaker 3: so I look at, for example, at the Top Gun

966
00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:54,040
Speaker 3: so the you know the movie, and top.

967
00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:56,279
Speaker 1: One percent of all naval aviators. So I love that.

968
00:53:56,680 --> 00:54:00,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, But the interesting thing about what they did there

969
00:54:01,040 --> 00:54:05,840
Speaker 3: was they had a school that actually practiced the principles and.

970
00:54:05,920 --> 00:54:08,080
Speaker 2: Not they didn't know that this is what they were.

971
00:54:07,920 --> 00:54:10,680
Speaker 3: Doing, but they actually practiced the principles of something called

972
00:54:10,719 --> 00:54:12,000
Speaker 3: deliberate practice.

973
00:54:12,480 --> 00:54:13,960
Speaker 2: And that's what the book's about.

974
00:54:15,040 --> 00:54:18,360
Speaker 1: Love it. Well, Doc, it's been great. We're going to

975
00:54:18,440 --> 00:54:21,920
Speaker 1: get you back. Thank you so much for being part

976
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:25,280
Speaker 1: of the You project. Enjoy the rest of your Saturday.

977
00:54:26,600 --> 00:54:29,480
Speaker 1: Well say goodbye our fair but for the minute, thanks

978
00:54:29,480 --> 00:54:31,440
Speaker 1: for your time, thanks for your brain, and thanks for

979
00:54:31,480 --> 00:54:32,040
Speaker 1: your energy.

980
00:54:32,440 --> 00:54:35,520
Speaker 3: Well, thank you. You're an easy man to talk to.

981
00:54:36,600 --> 00:54:40,280
Speaker 3: Just delightful. Greg, Thank you, thanks for the opportunity, pleasure.

982
00:54:40,360 --> 00:54:40,799
Speaker 1: Thanks Doc,