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Speaker 1: Today on Fear and Greed. Bitcoin pushes beyond one hundred

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Speaker 1: thousand US dollars a unit for the first time. Federal

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Speaker 1: Treasurer Jim Chalmers says there will be no big spending

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Speaker 1: initiatives in the upcoming budget review, and Sydney falls down

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Speaker 1: the ranks of best places to live. Plus, the boss

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Speaker 1: of West Farmers warned on industrial disputes, and Rio Tinto

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Speaker 1: is under pressure to change its structure. Welcome to Fear

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Speaker 1: and Greed. Daily business news for people who make their

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Speaker 1: own decisions. It is Friday, the sixth of December twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty four. Are Michael Thompson and good morning, Sean Aylmer.

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Speaker 2: Good morning, Michael, Sean.

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Speaker 1: The main story this morning bitcoin has pushed beyond one

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Speaker 1: hundred thousand US dollars and you.

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Speaker 2: Let's have a party, Michael, Let's have a party.

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Speaker 1: It's one of those things, isn't it. We were talking

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Speaker 1: about it just earlier in the week, going oh yeah, reckon,

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Speaker 1: it might get there, and then bang, it was there.

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Speaker 2: It got there.

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Speaker 1: And it's not just just Bitcoin. We've got other cryptos

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Speaker 1: hitting red cords. We've got Ethereum and Binance and Solana

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Speaker 1: and dogecoin, all hitting new records as well. It is

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Speaker 1: really quite something.

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Speaker 2: It's been an amazing thirty six hours. It all came

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Speaker 2: after President elect Donald Trump nominated a crypto enthusiast, a

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Speaker 2: guy called Paul Atkins, to be the next chair of

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Speaker 2: the Securities Exchange Commission. Little context here. The Securities Exchange Commission.

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Speaker 2: The SEC regulates financial markets in the US. The current

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Speaker 2: SEC management and the Biden administration well not big fans

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Speaker 2: of cryptocurrencies, and they've threatened stronger regulation. The fact that

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Speaker 2: the person coming in to take over running the regulator

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Speaker 2: LIFs cryptos, well, that's good for those currencies. Mister Atkins

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Speaker 2: really doesn't have many of the concerns that the guys

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Speaker 2: in the business do. Now. Few asset classes have boomed

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Speaker 2: quite as much as cryptos since Donald Trump won the

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Speaker 2: US presidential election a month ago. Crypto trading volumes last

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Speaker 2: month Nov Behead an all time high of more than

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Speaker 2: ten trillion US solars on exchanges. I mean, that's way

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Speaker 2: more than ever before. Bitcoin's up nearly forty percent since

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Speaker 2: Donald Trump was elected. At Ethereum's up forty percent, finances

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Speaker 2: twenty two percent, solanas twenty five percent. However, Kadano, which

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Speaker 2: is a blockchain platform and cryptocurrency created by the same

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Speaker 2: guy who founded Ethereum. His name is Charles Hoskinson. Kadano

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Speaker 2: is up two hundred and twenty seven percent since the election.

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Speaker 2: Dogecoin a favored of Elon Musk, It's up one hundred

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Speaker 2: and seventy seven percent.

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Speaker 1: Wow, Sean. The thing is, though, with crypto, we talk

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Speaker 1: so much about bitcoin, right, but there are so many

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Speaker 1: other units and tokens. There are so many cryptos, and

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Speaker 1: the big question then is where there are so many

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Speaker 1: different ones, can they all succeed?

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Speaker 2: Great question, no busy answer, but that.

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Speaker 1: Was unusually brief for you. Usually it would then take

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Speaker 1: about five and a half minutes to answer that.

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Speaker 2: So blockchain like Ethereum has made it easier for developers

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Speaker 2: to create a new digital token, and they're often developed

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Speaker 2: to facilitate transactions in a certain ecosystem, not broadly like

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Speaker 2: bigcombed in a more like a certain ecosystem. Competition imitation.

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Speaker 2: They've all played a role as well. Developers introduced new

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Speaker 2: cryptos that mimic or compete with others. A bit of

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Speaker 2: a distinction here is cryptocurrencies serve a bunch of purposes

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Speaker 2: like a medium of exchange. You can buy stuff with them,

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Speaker 2: store value. That's cryptocurrencies. Cryptotokens often serve specific roles within

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Speaker 2: their own ecosystems, so they're not as broad depending on

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Speaker 2: who you ask. There are about ten thousand cryptocurrencies out there,

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Speaker 2: probably more, though a bunch of those are inactive. The

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Speaker 2: estimates they suggest that up to eight thousand are active now.

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Speaker 2: Crypto have no legislated or intrinsic value. They are only

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Speaker 2: worth what they're worth. Bitcoin's are only worth one hundred

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Speaker 2: thousand US dollars a unit because that's what people are

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Speaker 2: willing to pay for them. So on that basis, you

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Speaker 2: would have to believe that the vast, vast majority of

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Speaker 2: cryptos at some point will be worth less or worth

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Speaker 2: very little. Doesn't necessarily mean bitcoin, but the point is

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Speaker 2: there are so many cryptos and they can't all succeed.

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Speaker 1: You didn't let me down there. Yeah, after you have

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Speaker 1: the five minutes, after a short intro, just the no,

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Speaker 1: you then proceeded to explain. It's like it's like a

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Speaker 1: maths exam where it was like show you're working.

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Speaker 2: That's that's it, show my working.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you had to demonstrate why you got to that

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Speaker 1: answer and you successfully demonstrated that. Sean, let's move to

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Speaker 1: local markets. How did things go yesterday?

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Speaker 2: That's in PASX two hundred closed up just to touch

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Speaker 2: to eighty four hundred and seventy five points. Basically, textocs

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Speaker 2: did well, so to consume. A discretionary company these consumer

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Speaker 2: discretionary is a term used on the market. It's kind

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Speaker 2: of there's two types of consumer companies, the staples and

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Speaker 2: the discretionary. The staples I think Cole's Woollies, the ones

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Speaker 2: that you sort of go to no matter what's going on. Discretionary, well,

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Speaker 2: it's more discretionary income Jbhi Fi, Harvey Norman. That'sts the

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Speaker 2: companies anyway, consumer discretion did pretty well. The property companies

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Speaker 2: didn't do so well. Best on the day among the

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Speaker 2: large caps, pro Medicus, well, what a surprise. We seem

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Speaker 2: to say that every second day, don't we. Wise Tech

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Speaker 2: Global did well, the software company Transurban, that's the toll company,

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Speaker 2: Coal's Northern Stars, a gold company. South thirty two is

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Speaker 2: a big minor. They all did pretty well. Worst was

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Speaker 2: Goodman Grip, which is the biggest property group. Santos and

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Speaker 2: Woodside they're the oil and gas guys BHP was down.

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Speaker 1: So to James Hardy's International Markets. I'm sure there's plenty

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Speaker 1: going on, John. Another day, another record high for Wall Street, Michael,

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Speaker 1: what a surprise tech stocks this time.

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Speaker 2: The Nasdaq which is one hundred or the NASEACK one

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Speaker 2: hundred is the one hundred mostly tech stocks on Wall Street.

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Speaker 2: That is an index of those companies. It rallied one

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Speaker 2: point three percent. The S and P five hundred, which

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Speaker 2: is the top five hundred companies on Wall Street, it

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Speaker 2: jumped a little over half of percent. One stock of

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Speaker 2: note is Australian based at lassi En a great success

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Speaker 2: story from this country. It's listed though on the Nasdaq,

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Speaker 2: not here. It jumped more than six percent after it

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Speaker 2: did to deal with Amazon Web services. Oil prices are

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Speaker 2: a touch higher, goals around twenty six to fifty US

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Speaker 2: dollars an ounce, iron are It's back to one hundred

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Speaker 2: and six US dollars a ton Good news there for

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Speaker 2: the miners, But the Aussie dollar, the poor old Ossie

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Speaker 2: dollar down to sixty four point four US cents, not

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Speaker 2: helped by that rally in bitcoin.

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Speaker 1: Sawn after the show a bit of a change of

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Speaker 1: pace talking about kind of bitcoin and global markets. We

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Speaker 1: are bringing it very much back to what we do

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Speaker 1: at home and what we spend, where we spend our money,

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Speaker 1: what we buy in the supermarket. So're talking to Ben Dixon,

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Speaker 1: the CEO of Fonto.

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Speaker 2: It's a fantastic chat about people's perceptions. So we start

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Speaker 2: talking about woolies and coals and what's going on there

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Speaker 2: with the regulatory concern over those two and what it

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Speaker 2: actually means for sales. And then we talk about TEAMU.

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Speaker 2: Anyone out there who has a child knows Team MoU.

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Speaker 2: You know, we used to have Amazon and eBay. Team

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Speaker 2: is now actually bigger than eBay, not as big as

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Speaker 2: Amazon in this country, but we talk about its growth,

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Speaker 2: customer loyalty. We also talk about how McDonald's offers so

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Speaker 2: much coffee and it's such a big player in the

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Speaker 2: coffee world. Now, great chat, Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Great chat about those consumer brands. That is coming up

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Speaker 1: after the show stick around though. We are still talking

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Speaker 1: Wes Farmers and Rio Tinto, and we're going to talk

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Speaker 1: about uranium Sean and this massive espionage campaign involving China

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Speaker 1: as well. Some great stories coming up. We'll be back

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Speaker 1: in a moment with the rest of the day's business news.

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Speaker 1: Sean Treasurer Jim Chalmers says there will be no new

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Speaker 1: big spending initiatives in the budget update, which is due

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Speaker 1: in coming weeks.

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Speaker 2: The mid year budget update won't be a mini budget,

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Speaker 2: he said, rather an update of this year's budget in May. Now,

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Speaker 2: this is one of your favorite acronyms, is it my EUFO,

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Speaker 2: my EFO? Yes, the mid Year Economic and Fiscal Outlook

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Speaker 2: my EIFO.

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Speaker 1: And it's one of those things that if you work

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Speaker 1: in kind of media and politics and all this stuff,

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Speaker 1: just people toss around my EFO all the time. So

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Speaker 1: it's just like it's just common knowledge. It's just like no, stop, stop,

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Speaker 1: just explain what it is. No one benefits from acronyms.

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Speaker 2: Right, absolutely, So the budget comes out in May and

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Speaker 2: about six months after that they basically update the budget.

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Speaker 2: Often there's a bunch of spending initiatives in that. Well,

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Speaker 2: Jim Chalmer says that's not going to be happening. He

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Speaker 2: did say he was speaking Queensland yesterday, he did say

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Speaker 2: he's always on the lookout for areas to reprioritize. I

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Speaker 2: love this from him. We don't often quote on fear

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Speaker 2: and greed, but this was a good one from the

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Speaker 2: treasure We get a lot of free advice from our

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Speaker 2: political opponents and from their sickophans and suck ups that

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Speaker 2: we should have some kind of slash and burn budget

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Speaker 2: with radical austerity. That is a recipe for recession. Sycophants

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Speaker 2: and suck ups.

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Speaker 1: Gad Jim, you know, you know it's giving me Paul

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Speaker 1: Keating kind of vibes.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, of course. See he's did his PhD. He's a doctor,

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Speaker 2: Jim Chalmers, doctor of economics, and I think he did

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Speaker 2: his study was on Paul Keating, wasn't it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. It feels like he's studying the way that Paul

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Speaker 1: Keating could generate a headline and just summarize things. And

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Speaker 1: you know what, Paul Keating is someone else that we

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Speaker 1: like to quote on this podcast. We delivers some cracking

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Speaker 1: lines every time.

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Speaker 2: Every time. Of course, Jim Chalmers is under some pressure

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Speaker 2: because Wednesday's GDP figures, well, they weren't good. They show

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Speaker 2: the only reason the economy expanded last quarter was government spending.

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Speaker 2: The Treasurer needs to pull back some government spending without

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Speaker 2: pushing the economy into recession. Very very fine line that one.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a tough balance now. West Farmer's chief executive

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Speaker 1: Rob Scott says he is increasingly worried about the rise

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Speaker 1: in industrial activity, saying that it could feed into inflation

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Speaker 1: at what is the worst possible time for Australian families.

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Speaker 2: So West Farmers is Australia's biggest conglomerate, owns Bunnings, office Works,

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Speaker 2: Kmart Group. I mean it's got a big health business

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Speaker 2: including Priceline pharmacies. It's also got these chemicals business, and

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Speaker 2: an energy and fertilizers business and an industrial and safety business.

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Speaker 2: Massive company based in per one hundred and twenty thousand

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Speaker 2: employees nearly half a million shareholders. Yesterday, mister Scott, when

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Speaker 2: asked about the dispute between warehouse workers and woolies, said

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Speaker 2: the dispute is part of a worrying trend in Australia

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Speaker 2: that is starting to spread. He said, Ultimately, the consequences

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Speaker 2: hit the supply chain and that feeds through to higher prices.

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Speaker 2: That's not what we need in the run up to Christmas,

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Speaker 2: particularly when we already have a cost of limiting crisis.

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Speaker 1: Sean I mentioned Rio Tinto earlier and the company is

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Speaker 1: under pressure to unify its dual listing structure, offering shares

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Speaker 1: only in Australia. The thing is that the boss of

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Speaker 1: the company is actually against the idea.

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Speaker 2: Yes, so this is one of those stories where we

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Speaker 2: tend to give people a lesson. So just put up

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Speaker 2: with us for a moment. Like at the moment, you

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Speaker 2: could buy a REO share on the AX or you

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Speaker 2: could also buy it on London's foot seat. So the

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Speaker 2: British share market BHP used to be the same. It

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Speaker 2: dropped that idea about it was early twenty twenty two.

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Speaker 2: When it dropped it, it suddenly became it boosted its

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Speaker 2: size because you could only trade it in Australia and

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Speaker 2: it made BEHP the biggest company on the BASS back then.

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Speaker 2: Some shareholders think Rio should do the same. About seventy

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Speaker 2: seven percent of shares in Reo are actually traded in

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Speaker 2: the UK, twenty three percent in Australia. Maybe the argument

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Speaker 2: is it should just go to the UK not Australia

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Speaker 2: argues that the duel listing reflects what the minor is,

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Speaker 2: part British, part Australian. It also means it's got access

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Speaker 2: to a lot more shareholders easier. The Australian share is

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Speaker 2: actually trade at a slight premium because we have franking

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Speaker 2: credits in this country. That's a benefit. So therefore the

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Speaker 2: share price of Rail here is slightly higher in the UK. Yesterday,

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Speaker 2: mister Southsholm hinted at actually issuing more Aussie shares to

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Speaker 2: fix the imbalance, which is the opposite of dropping the

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Speaker 2: duel listing. He has some big shareholders they're wanting him

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Speaker 2: to drop it. The comments came at an investor briefing.

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Speaker 2: Mister Southsholm was her forecast big jumps and copper output

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Speaker 2: for the company over the next year or so. They

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Speaker 2: are trying desperately to offset their reliance on iron or Michael.

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Speaker 1: Is franking credits really the main reason that you would

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Speaker 1: pick Australia over the US in terms of the side

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Speaker 1: sorry over the UK, because obviously the size of the

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Speaker 1: market in the UK is bigger.

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Speaker 2: It's a good question. I don't know why. I mean,

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Speaker 2: they're in Australian company and I think it's difficult for

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Speaker 2: them to so. Some of the healthcare companies particularly have

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Speaker 2: left Australia and just become US companies with sort of

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Speaker 2: secondary listings here. Very hard for a big minor like

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Speaker 2: Rio Tinto BHP decided to come home. Very hard for

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Speaker 2: them to do that. I think that's probably you know,

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Speaker 2: they've got this social license rare to go and blast

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Speaker 2: and mine in Western Australia, in the Pilbra, in the Kimberley,

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Speaker 2: and I think they have to look after that. And

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Speaker 2: if they actually left and became a British company, I

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Speaker 2: think that'd be a problem.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that that actually makes sense. Now, Uranium stocks

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Speaker 1: SEAN are now the most shorted companies on the ASX.

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Speaker 1: This is interesting.

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Speaker 2: This is not a list you want to be on.

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Speaker 2: When you say shorten. Basically big investors are taking a

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Speaker 2: bet that your share price is going to four Lithium stock.

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Speaker 2: Mineral Resources has been the number one shortened stock for months.

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Speaker 2: It's down to number seven. Uranium stocks. They ran very

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Speaker 2: hard until the first half of this year. They've come

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Speaker 2: off a bit. We're talking about Paladin, Boss Energy, Deep Yellow,

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Speaker 2: fantastic name for uranium company. They're all high on the

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Speaker 2: list of shorted stocks. There are a few battery minerals companies,

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Speaker 2: so Sirah Resources, Pilbra Minerals, Mineral Resources. We just mentioned

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Speaker 2: Lion Town, so a few of those companies. There also

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Speaker 2: some other familiar names on the top fifteen or twenty

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Speaker 2: stocks that are shortened big investors betting that they're going

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Speaker 2: to go the wrong way. Domino's Pizza's one, Corporate Travel

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Speaker 2: Management's another. Seek he is in that, and so too.

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Speaker 2: In fact, is Rio Tinto all.

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Speaker 1: Right now, Sean turning to international news. The French government

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Speaker 1: has collapsed after Prime Minister Michelle Barnier was removed after

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Speaker 1: a no confidence vote.

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Speaker 2: He was only appointed three months ago by President Emanuel Macron.

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Speaker 2: Mister Barnier, it has been under fire ever since. He

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Speaker 2: used special powers to force through his budget without a

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Speaker 2: vote in parliament. Now that budget was a tough budget.

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Speaker 2: It included big tax increases, huge spending cuts. What's happened

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Speaker 2: The far right teamed up with a leftist block in

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Speaker 2: parliament to vote the prime minister out. That's the first

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Speaker 2: time that's happened in France in more than sixty years.

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Speaker 2: Mister mccron now needs to find a new PM. French

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Speaker 2: Parliament is a tricky beast. It's divided into three blocks

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Speaker 2: and none of which have a majority. So mister mccron

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Speaker 2: needs to find some that they'll all agree with also, Michael,

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Speaker 2: just a quick update of the crisis in South Korea.

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Speaker 2: President Yune declared martial law and then a few hours

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Speaker 2: later said he wouldn't do it. He blamed his defense

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Speaker 2: minister at the time, saying, well, he gave me the idea.

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Speaker 2: Now he carried it out, obviously, but he said the

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Speaker 2: defense mister gave me the idea. Anyway, he sacked him yesterday.

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Speaker 1: That has all the hallmarks of a bandaid.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, I think so yep.

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Speaker 1: Now I mentioned this extraordinary story about espionage Sean Chinese

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Speaker 1: government hackers have compromised telecommunications infrastructure around the world as

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Speaker 1: part of a massive espionage campaign that has affected dozens

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Speaker 1: of countries. Now, this is according to a top US

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Speaker 1: security official.

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Speaker 2: This story has been bubbling for a couple of months,

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Speaker 2: but there's been no real confirmation. And obviously, when you're

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Speaker 2: talking about Chinese government hackers getting into governments of countries,

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Speaker 2: those governments don't want to talk about it. A woman

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Speaker 2: called Anne Newberger, whose President Joe Biden's Deputy National Security

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Speaker 2: Advisor for cyber and Emerging Technology, came out and said

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Speaker 2: the so called Salt Typhoon campaign is ongoing and that

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Speaker 2: at least eight telecommunication firms in the US have been breached,

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Speaker 2: according to report in the Wall Street Journal. Now, the

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Speaker 2: Chinese government has totally denied responsibility for the hack. The

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Speaker 2: US don't believe them, certainly the remarks of the most

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Speaker 2: specific public acknowledgment yet by the US government concerning this

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Speaker 2: vast scope. It's severity of the hacking campaign, which investigators

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Speaker 2: have traced to a Chinese intelligence agency.

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Speaker 1: I know this is really serious, but Salt Typhoon is

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Speaker 1: a cool name, don't you think, like if you were

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Speaker 1: going to get your if you're a Patatelco and you're

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Speaker 1: going to get hacked, you'd want it to be as

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Speaker 1: part as the Typhoon cab.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think so.

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Speaker 1: Anyways, Sean, The MERCER Quality of Living Report has been

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Speaker 1: released and Zurich takes out the top spot. Sydney has

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Speaker 1: slipped down the list to number twelve. MERCER ranks cities

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Speaker 1: for their expat appeal. It's not for those living in it,

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Speaker 1: for those if you want to go and live there.

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Speaker 1: Zerich outstanding public services, low crime rates, cultural scene and

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Speaker 1: commitment to sustainability.

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Speaker 2: All sounds pretty good. Next with Vienna Geneva. In fact,

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Speaker 2: the top ten were dominated by these beautiful European cities.

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Speaker 2: According to a report on Bloomberg, Singapore is the highest

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Speaker 2: Asian city at thirty. Los Angeles the biggest climber, up

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Speaker 2: twenty six places to forty four thanks to improved crime.

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Speaker 2: When they say improved crime, I'm presuming they mean less crime,

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Speaker 2: improved air quality in internet access Sydney, which they don't

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Speaker 2: count as part of Asia. Inter Singly, i suppose we're

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Speaker 2: the civic we Sydney fell three places to twelve, number twelve.

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Speaker 2: Melbourne came in at twenty. Cambrig came in at twenty nine.

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Speaker 2: Bottom of that list, Baghdad in Iraq, Khartoum incident. There

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Speaker 2: you go.

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Speaker 1: I feel like Brisbane's been ripped off clearly, clearly. I'm

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Speaker 1: alone in.

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Speaker 2: Thinking no, no, no, But thank.

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Speaker 1: You for the resounding support.

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Speaker 2: Well look, I'm not don't favor any cities in I'm

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Speaker 2: startering here. I'm a Perth fan, like I'm sorry Adelaide

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Speaker 2: and Brisbane. I'm per fin I've got to get it

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Speaker 2: out there. Hobart love Hobart, big fan in Melbourne and

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Speaker 2: Sydney of great cities. So you know, a lot of

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Speaker 2: time my life's been in Sydney and Melbourne. Great cities,

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Speaker 2: Big Perth, Big Hay ut Fan. I need to spend

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Speaker 2: more time in in Brisbane, I think.

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Speaker 1: Okay. I feel like we've sufficiently kind of named checked

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Speaker 1: every kind of city in Australia, so no one's feeling

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Speaker 1: left out right now, Sean. Up next is the Fear

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Speaker 1: and Greed Daily Interview Ben Dixon, CEO of FONTO. Great

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Speaker 1: interview talking about everything from retailers right through to coffee

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Speaker 1: in Australia. Check that one out. It's coming up in

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Speaker 1: the Fear and Greed playlist on your podcast platform or

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Speaker 1: at Fearangreed dot com. Today you and keep an eye

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Speaker 1: on your playlist as well. At midday there's a new

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Speaker 1: episode of Ask Fear and Greed where we answer listener questions.

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Speaker 1: That's a must listen. Thank you very much, Sean. Thank you, Michael.

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Speaker 1: It is Friday, the sixth of December twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 1: Make sure you're following the podcast. Very important. Just hit

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Speaker 1: that follow button and join us online on LinkedIn, Instagram,

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Speaker 1: x TikTok and Facebook. I'm Michael Thompson. That was Fear

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Speaker 1: and Greed.

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Speaker 2: Have a great day, f