WEBVTT - Labor’s plan to put young people into aged care

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<v Speaker 1>I was on a friend's house boat at the time

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<v Speaker 1>and dived off the house boat into the water.

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<v Speaker 2>Neil Radley was on a day off from his job

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<v Speaker 2>as a truck driver, enjoying the sun with some friends

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<v Speaker 2>in regional Victoria. He looked off the side of the

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<v Speaker 2>house boat, no branches, the water was clear. He decided

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<v Speaker 2>to jump. What he hadn't seen was a sandbar.

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<v Speaker 3>When I passed out in the water, my friends, I think.

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<v Speaker 1>Thought I was mucking around trying to hold my breath,

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<v Speaker 1>then realized that I wasn't.

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<v Speaker 3>They dragged me out of the water. They got the

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<v Speaker 3>water out of my stomach.

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<v Speaker 1>I can remember that I was semi consciously all I

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<v Speaker 1>was going through all that, And I can remember when

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<v Speaker 1>it really hit home was when the ambulance came there

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<v Speaker 1>and they asked me whether I could move my hands

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<v Speaker 1>or my toes, And then I realized that nothing was moving,

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<v Speaker 1>and yeah, that really And then I thought, Wow, I've

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<v Speaker 1>really done something big this time.

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<v Speaker 2>Neil remembers being carried into a chopper, the door closing

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<v Speaker 2>and the chopper taking off. After that, his memory goes blank.

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<v Speaker 1>I woke up one day and I see you, and

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<v Speaker 1>you got all these machines, bitmen and stuff like that,

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<v Speaker 1>and it was a bit of a shock. You just, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>it's coming to the realization that your whole life is

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<v Speaker 1>going to change. You don't realize the time how much

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<v Speaker 1>it's going to change, but you know it's never going

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<v Speaker 1>to be the same as what it.

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<v Speaker 3>Was, that's for sure.

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<v Speaker 2>And it was in the ICU for eight weeks. It

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<v Speaker 2>was here he was told he'd broken his neck. He

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<v Speaker 2>later learned he would live the rest of his life

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<v Speaker 2>as a high needs quadriplegic. He realized he needed somewhere

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<v Speaker 2>to live and his options were limited.

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<v Speaker 3>My mom and dad are in there like their eighties.

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<v Speaker 1>If they had been a bit younger, they probably would

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<v Speaker 1>have looked after me, but it was too much to

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<v Speaker 1>ask for them. And that's so then they sort of thought, well,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, because the NIS wasn't in, then I've virtually.

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<v Speaker 3>Slipped through the cracks and there was nothing for me.

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<v Speaker 3>So age care was about the only choice that I had.

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<v Speaker 2>Neil was in his early forties and suddenly he was

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<v Speaker 2>dealing with the prospect of living the rest of his

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<v Speaker 2>life in aged care. They are currently close to fifteen

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<v Speaker 2>hundred younger people with disabilities living in aged care across Australia.

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<v Speaker 2>The federal government wants to pass a law that could

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<v Speaker 2>see that number rise. From Schwartz Media, I'm Ruby Jones.

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<v Speaker 2>This is seven AM today. Neil Radley on the reality

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<v Speaker 2>of living in aged care and The Saturday Papers senior

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<v Speaker 2>reporter Rick Morton on the plan that might make the

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<v Speaker 2>problem worse. It's Tuesday, August thirteenth. Neil. When it became

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<v Speaker 2>clear that you would need to move into an aged

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<v Speaker 2>care home after your accident, what was your first thought.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I thought, basically, if someone said to you, what

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<v Speaker 1>would be the worst thing that could happen to you,

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<v Speaker 1>I'd probably say that mainly because I was such an independent,

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<v Speaker 1>active person. It was more you had to sort of

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<v Speaker 1>come to grips with that this was your life now.

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<v Speaker 1>From straight away, you really felt like you didn't fit.

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<v Speaker 1>You're a young person and you know, just as examples

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<v Speaker 1>like the music you listen to is not the same.

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<v Speaker 1>In the end, I sort of shut off from being

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<v Speaker 1>friends with a lot of them because they're getting older

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<v Speaker 1>in life and sometimes they're here and the next to gone.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, it's like you just felt like you always

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<v Speaker 1>wanted to get out.

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<v Speaker 2>Can you tell me about your room, about your life there.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I couldn't really open the doors myself because there's

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<v Speaker 1>not an automatic door, and there's a handle on it

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<v Speaker 1>and that, And after a while I sort of felt like,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, I was virtually in a cell because I

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<v Speaker 1>couldn't get out unless I rang buzzer and got let out.

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<v Speaker 1>Sometimes I didn't leave the door open, but at night

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<v Speaker 1>it was closed. I couldn't get out if I wanted to. Oh,

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<v Speaker 1>I had a few few times where it wasn't there fault.

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<v Speaker 1>A few people with dementia come into your room and

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<v Speaker 1>you're sort of thinking, well, without that buzzer, I'm pretty

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<v Speaker 1>much helpless here. I can't get out of the bed

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<v Speaker 1>and run away. I can't do it. So it's the

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<v Speaker 1>lack of freedom, the lack of consistency and reliability and care.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it wasn't good, that's for sure.

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<v Speaker 1>And it definitely over time wears you down and plays

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<v Speaker 1>on your mental health. It doesn't matter how strong and

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<v Speaker 1>how stubborn you are, it's going to get to you

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<v Speaker 1>sooner or later. And yeah, the longer you stay there

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<v Speaker 1>probably the worst it's going to get.

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<v Speaker 3>I think.

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<v Speaker 2>So Rick Neil spent four years of his life in

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<v Speaker 2>a nursing home, but he is far from alone, and

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<v Speaker 2>being forced into that position tell me what we know

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<v Speaker 2>about how common this is.

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<v Speaker 4>It used to be a lot more common for a

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<v Speaker 4>young person under the age of sixty five with pretty

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<v Speaker 4>profound disabilities to be stuck living in a nursing home

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<v Speaker 4>or what we call a residential edge care facility, particularly

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<v Speaker 4>since the closure of large scale of disability institutions. Suddenly,

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<v Speaker 4>these big, hulking, awful institutions were closed and there was

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<v Speaker 4>really nowhere left for people with disabilities to live, and

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<v Speaker 4>nursing homes became literally a dumping ground to the point

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<v Speaker 4>where you know, people just gave up trying to find

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<v Speaker 4>a solution to know where these people could live. And

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<v Speaker 4>you know, just a few years ago there are more

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<v Speaker 4>than six thousand people under the age of sixty five

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<v Speaker 4>who had disabilities but who did not have an aging

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<v Speaker 4>related illness or condition, who were in residential edge care.

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<v Speaker 4>They should have had somewhere else to go, but they didn't.

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<v Speaker 4>And pretty much since that peak of around six thousand,

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<v Speaker 4>seven thousand people, we've been trying really hard to get

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<v Speaker 4>them out of there.

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<v Speaker 2>So there's been this push to get young people out

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<v Speaker 2>of nursing homes for years, the Royal Commission into Aged

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<v Speaker 2>Care explicitly called for that. How have governments responded.

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<v Speaker 5>When the Morrison government finally responded to that.

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<v Speaker 4>Age kre Royal Commission report, the Interim report in particular,

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<v Speaker 4>they kind of come up with an implementation plan and

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<v Speaker 4>there were areas of immediate action, and there was kind

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<v Speaker 4>of stage steps where initially they were meant to basically

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<v Speaker 4>get rid of everyone under the age of forty five

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<v Speaker 4>to start off with, and to stop new people entering

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<v Speaker 4>age care if they were under the age of sixty five,

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<v Speaker 4>and then finally make sure that from next year no

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<v Speaker 4>one has lived there that shouldn't be. We have already

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<v Speaker 4>failed the first two of those steps, and the Albanezi

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<v Speaker 4>government has inherited these targets and they're now in government

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<v Speaker 4>and they're about to fail the third and final herd.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, So what is it that's going on here then, riek?

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<v Speaker 2>If there is this consensus among commissioners, ministers, departments that

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<v Speaker 2>this is something that shouldn't happen. Young people just shouldn't

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<v Speaker 2>be in nursing homes, yet it continues. So why is that?

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<v Speaker 4>I mean, partly it's this game of institutional buck shutting.

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<v Speaker 4>So for a long time there wasn't really anywhere else

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<v Speaker 4>to go, and the funding had dried up.

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<v Speaker 5>But then along comes.

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<v Speaker 4>The National disflilt Insurance Scheme. Right and out of everyone,

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<v Speaker 4>people with profound disabilities and long term, round the clock

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<v Speaker 4>physical and mental and intellectual care needs were the people

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<v Speaker 4>who were supposed to have been looked after by the

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<v Speaker 4>National Disflilted Insurance Scheme. And the NDAs just went real slow.

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<v Speaker 4>They dragged their heels and they didn't want to touch

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<v Speaker 4>this issue because they were too busy trying to sort

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<v Speaker 4>out everything else about the scheme. And of course they

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<v Speaker 4>got hauled over the coals by the Edge Care Rooral

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<v Speaker 4>Commission by saying, you know, we've got this semi commitment

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<v Speaker 4>to get people out of nursing homes and you've done

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<v Speaker 4>nothing about it. But it's not just the National disflult

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<v Speaker 4>Insurance Scheme. You've got state and territory governments who themselves

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<v Speaker 4>have played silly buggers, I think with the NDAs in

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<v Speaker 4>the early stages of the scheme, who themselves have responsibility

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<v Speaker 4>for building houses and providing housing. But with the clarion

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<v Speaker 4>call of the Age Care raw Commission. We finally had

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<v Speaker 4>not just bipartisan support for this, but also a pretty

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<v Speaker 4>clear indicator of what needed to happen.

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<v Speaker 5>And the numbers were going down, not nearly as.

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<v Speaker 4>Fast as they should have been, but you know they were.

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<v Speaker 4>You know, the last time I checked, there were about

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<v Speaker 4>fourteen hundred people under the age of sixty five in

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<v Speaker 4>nursing homes across the country as of the end of December.

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<v Speaker 4>But people are still going in and there were forty

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<v Speaker 4>four I think that went into nursing homes in just

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<v Speaker 4>in the last quarter from September to December twenty twenty three.

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<v Speaker 4>So the practice hasn't stopped, it hasn't gone away, but

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<v Speaker 4>we were making some progress and that seems to now

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<v Speaker 4>be unraveled.

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<v Speaker 2>Coming up after the break the new law that could

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<v Speaker 2>see even more young people and up in aged care. Rick,

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<v Speaker 2>you've been looking into changes that the federal government is

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<v Speaker 2>planning to the Aged Care Act. Tell me about what

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<v Speaker 2>you've uncovered.

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<v Speaker 4>It has a new eligibility criteria for someone who can

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<v Speaker 4>go into a nursing home or receive home care services

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<v Speaker 4>under the Age Care Act. And the key part of

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<v Speaker 4>this eligibility criteria is that you can have an assessment

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<v Speaker 4>made if you are under the age of sixty five

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<v Speaker 4>but older than the age of fifty, if you are

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<v Speaker 4>homeless or at risk of being homeless. The problem with

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<v Speaker 4>that is that there is no definition in this Act

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<v Speaker 4>about what constitutes homelessness, and people with disabilities who have

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<v Speaker 4>been put into hospital or who do not have.

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<v Speaker 5>The right funded supports for them to live in the.

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<v Speaker 4>Community anymore, those people will be classed as homeless or

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<v Speaker 4>at risk of being homeless. And so we are now

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<v Speaker 4>introducing for the first time ever an explicit clause in

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<v Speaker 4>the federal legislation that Governor's Age Care, which will actually

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<v Speaker 4>codify in legislation pretty much the same thing that happened

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<v Speaker 4>to Neil happening to a bunch of people who are

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<v Speaker 4>aged between fifty and sixty five. If you're a young

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<v Speaker 4>person under the age of fifty, you have to show

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<v Speaker 4>all this evidence that you've tried every single service system

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<v Speaker 4>that they've rejected you. You have to put it in rioting,

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<v Speaker 4>and basically you have to show evidence that there is

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<v Speaker 4>nowhere else for this.

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<v Speaker 5>Person to go.

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<v Speaker 4>But if you're over the age of fifty and under

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<v Speaker 4>the age of sixty five and you're at risk of homelessness.

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<v Speaker 4>Then all you have to show, or all someone who

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<v Speaker 4>wants to get rid of you from their services has

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<v Speaker 4>to show before they can put you in a nursing home,

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<v Speaker 4>is that you've been informed of other options. So essentially,

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<v Speaker 4>and I've been talking to people from the Young People

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<v Speaker 4>in Nursing Home National Alliance, Dr Bronwan Wlcombe in particular,

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<v Speaker 4>who says that this is now legislating bad practice and

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<v Speaker 4>this will actually unwind decades of effort to get people

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<v Speaker 4>out of nursing homes and over the next decade will

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<v Speaker 4>possibly see an uptick in the numbers because exemptions in

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<v Speaker 4>a legislation are fraught, and this is poorly designed, poorly drafted,

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<v Speaker 4>poorly written, and the government doesn't seem to have responded

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<v Speaker 4>to that key criticism.

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<v Speaker 2>And so what is the federal government saying about why

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<v Speaker 2>it's putting this into the legislation?

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<v Speaker 4>To be honest, I didn't really understand their response me

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<v Speaker 4>when I put questions in. They said that, you know,

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<v Speaker 4>this new legislation is an example of how they're taking

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<v Speaker 4>the next step to making sure that young people can't

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<v Speaker 4>be in nursing homes.

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<v Speaker 5>And what they say quite rightly, and I wish they'd.

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<v Speaker 4>Recognize this across the government when it comes to the

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<v Speaker 4>stress of being on below poverty level welfare payments. But

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<v Speaker 4>they say that someone who's homeless or at risk of homelessness,

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<v Speaker 4>who's aged over fifty in particular, they the stress of

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<v Speaker 4>living like that can prematurely age them. And that's the

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<v Speaker 4>reason they say that they're including this particular eligibility exemption

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<v Speaker 4>in the Age Care Act so that these people can

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<v Speaker 4>go into a nursing home they're sleeping rough or they've

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<v Speaker 4>got nowhere else to go. That's great for people who

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<v Speaker 4>are homeless, it's not great for someone who can be

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<v Speaker 4>excused away by the NDIS or state churchury housing departments.

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<v Speaker 2>What does it say to you, Wrick that after multiple

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<v Speaker 2>Royal commissions which have had firsthand testimony presented by people

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<v Speaker 2>like Neil who spoke to how diminished his life was

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<v Speaker 2>by living in this way, how are now in this

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<v Speaker 2>situation where it seems like everything that people who have

0:12:33.160 --> 0:12:36.360
<v Speaker 2>been in nursing homes are saying about their needs is

0:12:36.400 --> 0:12:37.040
<v Speaker 2>being ignored.

0:12:37.640 --> 0:12:39.680
<v Speaker 4>You know, if there wasn't an NDIS, you could find

0:12:39.679 --> 0:12:42.120
<v Speaker 4>yourself having an argument saying, well, maybe there's nowhere else,

0:12:42.600 --> 0:12:43.520
<v Speaker 4>Maybe there is nowhere else.

0:12:43.559 --> 0:12:44.520
<v Speaker 5>It's not good.

0:12:44.880 --> 0:12:46.600
<v Speaker 4>Maybe we should fund somewhere else, but we don't have

0:12:46.600 --> 0:12:48.880
<v Speaker 4>an NDAs. But we do and we have had for

0:12:48.960 --> 0:12:53.280
<v Speaker 4>a decade. And if it can't do this job, what's

0:12:53.320 --> 0:12:56.200
<v Speaker 4>the point of any of it. And I feel like

0:12:57.400 --> 0:13:01.040
<v Speaker 4>this is a cohort of people amongst a cohort of

0:13:01.080 --> 0:13:05.880
<v Speaker 4>people that is really profoundly disabled, people who are already

0:13:05.880 --> 0:13:06.720
<v Speaker 4>part of the broader.

0:13:06.520 --> 0:13:09.480
<v Speaker 5>Disability community, who are often ignored, who.

0:13:09.800 --> 0:13:12.400
<v Speaker 4>Have decisions made about them where very few people are

0:13:12.520 --> 0:13:17.520
<v Speaker 4>taking notice, and the government might think that not enough

0:13:17.520 --> 0:13:19.400
<v Speaker 4>people are going to say anything about it to stop

0:13:19.440 --> 0:13:20.720
<v Speaker 4>them from making a bad decision.

0:13:22.840 --> 0:13:24.040
<v Speaker 2>Rick, thank you for your tam.

0:13:24.640 --> 0:13:25.760
<v Speaker 5>Thanks Ruby, I appreciate it.

0:13:30.240 --> 0:13:33.200
<v Speaker 2>After four years in aged care, Neil found a way out.

0:13:33.520 --> 0:13:36.120
<v Speaker 2>He's now living in his own place. He can come

0:13:36.160 --> 0:13:38.640
<v Speaker 2>and go as he wishes and has twenty four hour care.

0:13:41.040 --> 0:13:42.880
<v Speaker 3>Oh I love life now. It's great.

0:13:43.040 --> 0:13:47.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's like I said, it's about as close I

0:13:47.960 --> 0:13:53.320
<v Speaker 1>think is what you can get to living without an injury,

0:13:53.360 --> 0:13:55.640
<v Speaker 1>as far as the choices and the.

0:13:55.600 --> 0:13:56.280
<v Speaker 3>Freedom you have.

0:13:57.160 --> 0:14:00.120
<v Speaker 1>You can go anywhere, you can pretty much do anything

0:14:00.160 --> 0:14:05.880
<v Speaker 1>you can. The it makes sure feel a whole lot better.

0:14:05.920 --> 0:14:08.920
<v Speaker 1>You feel like you've got a purpose now that you know.

0:14:08.960 --> 0:14:13.480
<v Speaker 1>And I've also helped a few advocate groups out as well,

0:14:13.920 --> 0:14:16.040
<v Speaker 1>and I think I've got a little bit to give hopefully.

0:14:16.480 --> 0:14:19.200
<v Speaker 3>But where I am now is pretty good. I want

0:14:19.240 --> 0:14:20.960
<v Speaker 3>to keep it as long as I can, that's for sure.

0:14:36.760 --> 0:14:40.560
<v Speaker 2>Also in the news today, leading gambling reform advocate Tim

0:14:40.600 --> 0:14:44.240
<v Speaker 2>Costello says Labor risks an internal rebellion if it waters

0:14:44.280 --> 0:14:47.920
<v Speaker 2>down gambling reforms. A twenty twenty two inquiry into the

0:14:47.960 --> 0:14:50.840
<v Speaker 2>harms of online gambling called for a total ban on

0:14:50.920 --> 0:14:54.800
<v Speaker 2>gambling ads, but reports suggest the Abenezy government is considering

0:14:54.880 --> 0:14:58.280
<v Speaker 2>a partial ban. Mister Costello, who leads the Alliance for

0:14:58.360 --> 0:15:01.960
<v Speaker 2>Gambling Reform, says his spoken with several Labour MPs who

0:15:02.000 --> 0:15:05.320
<v Speaker 2>are pressuring the government to deliver on the inquiry's recommendations.

0:15:06.320 --> 0:15:10.240
<v Speaker 2>And the UN says Israel has forcibly evacuated roughly seventy

0:15:10.240 --> 0:15:14.280
<v Speaker 2>five thousand Palestinians from carn Unie as it again expands

0:15:14.280 --> 0:15:17.600
<v Speaker 2>operations into the region. The news comes as Hamas is

0:15:17.640 --> 0:15:21.000
<v Speaker 2>calling on Katari, Egyptian and US mediators to implement a

0:15:21.040 --> 0:15:23.960
<v Speaker 2>cease fire plan that was put forward by US President

0:15:24.040 --> 0:15:27.840
<v Speaker 2>Joe Biden. I'm Ruby Jones. This is seven am.

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<v Speaker 4>Thanks for listening.