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Speaker 1: Approche Production. Welcome to Secrets of the Underworld. I am

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Speaker 1: Neil the muscle coumments. You've probably heard about the last

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Speaker 1: King of the Cross, John Abraham. Mister Ibrahim, You've been

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Speaker 1: described as the King of the Cross. Behind every king

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Speaker 1: stands a loyal soldier. Their job is to make sure

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Speaker 1: that that king stays on the throne. I am that soldier,

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Speaker 1: and in this episode I speak with Uk Hardman.

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Speaker 2: Paul Stands started punching the windows on the door in

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Speaker 2: He didn't know what was going and I'm trying to handle.

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Speaker 2: He started driving off and I hope he watches this year.

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Speaker 2: I really hope he watches this. He opened the door

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Speaker 2: for me and he turned round, took one look at

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Speaker 2: me and let go of the door. And it smacked me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Hey, if I'm tenure, it is stupid, stupid, Yeah, because

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Speaker 2: I've put so many people in danger that but I

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Speaker 2: managed to escape from the mental institution. Took me a while,

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Speaker 2: but I've figured it out and I've got out of it.

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Speaker 2: She come down. My mom looked me in the eyes

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Speaker 2: and she said, kill them.

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Speaker 1: Let's get to know you as as a person first,

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Speaker 1: before we get into nitty grizzy.

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Speaker 2: So I was born in London. I grew up there

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Speaker 2: for a fair bit of my childhood, restrained family. Mom

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Speaker 2: and dad didn't really get on. My dad was a

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Speaker 2: bit handsy. I used to whip my mom up a lot,

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Speaker 2: and that was Yeah. I never really witnessed it, but

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Speaker 2: I heard it, do you know what I mean? And

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Speaker 2: sometimes I think that's worse than actually seeing it. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I seen your imagination. Yes, the imagination, isn't it. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: And then all you see is you see the after effects,

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Speaker 2: you know, the cut lip, the black eye. I feel

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Speaker 2: like that plays more trauma than actually seeing it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I remember when my mother and father used to

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Speaker 1: fight and I used to try and get in the middle.

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Speaker 1: And I remember one day we were in ten Reef

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Speaker 1: and he I was in the way and I told

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Speaker 1: him stop it. My mom stopping my mom. And then

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Speaker 1: he threw me against the wall and that was just

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Speaker 1: that was that was a massive changer for me, you

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Speaker 1: know what I mean, because I was only young then

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Speaker 1: and I had to throw me against the wall and

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Speaker 1: then he launched up my mother. It was it was

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Speaker 1: pretty That was the only time I've ever seen them fight,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean.

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Speaker 2: Did that change your view and your old man.

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Speaker 1: But this way it didn't because me and him became

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Speaker 1: he was he was my best mate, you know what

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Speaker 1: I mean. But I used to get told different things

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Speaker 1: off different but like my mother would say bad things

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Speaker 1: about my dad, and my dad would say bad things

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Speaker 1: about my mom, so I could never get the full story.

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Speaker 1: So but then I always because my mom used to

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Speaker 1: take the piss all the time out of my dad.

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Speaker 1: I stuck up for my dad because he never he

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Speaker 1: never used to say a bad word. I've always think

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Speaker 1: my dad's getting done by you while you picking on

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Speaker 1: my dad all the time. So that's that was always

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Speaker 1: staying with my dad. But now I've grown up and

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Speaker 1: now I remember things. It's funny how when you grow

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Speaker 1: up you remember and remember remember things. Now I go, shit,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean? You fucking used to do that,

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Speaker 1: your little fuck you know what I mean?

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Speaker 2: I mean thinking mature mind though, that isn't it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: You know, when you as you get older, you start

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Speaker 2: to think like an adult or not a child. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: so you start seeing how more messed up it was

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Speaker 2: that your parents actually said them things to you as

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Speaker 2: a child, because it really it shouldn't be said, it

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Speaker 2: should have been kept between them, you know. And I

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Speaker 2: think again that plays a massive part in trauma that

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Speaker 2: you end up reliving as you get older. But it

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Speaker 2: does make you a better parent as well. It make

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Speaker 2: me a better parent, yeah, you know, so learning from that.

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Speaker 2: It come with its trauma, but I'll become a better

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Speaker 2: parent because of it, because I didn't want to be

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Speaker 2: like that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but how do the affect the household? Though?

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Speaker 2: Massively? Because my my my dad didn't really get on

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Speaker 2: with my brother, so that was like always aguments between

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Speaker 2: them two, and my mom used to waste it up

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Speaker 2: for my brother, so my mum used to get it

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Speaker 2: from my dad. Yeah, you know, and we was young,

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Speaker 2: so whilst they're all having their arguments, we was pushed

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Speaker 2: off into a room listening to it. And then afterwards

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Speaker 2: my dad would leave. I can't I can't tell you

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Speaker 2: it's whether mum kicked him out or whether he just left,

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Speaker 2: but he'd leave, and then of course my mum would

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Speaker 2: have all these marks on her clothes, would be stretched

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Speaker 2: out and you're trying to be like, what's going on here,

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Speaker 2: but at the same time and you were kamm like

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Speaker 2: trying to help her out. Do you know what I mean?

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Speaker 1: But the next day and or the day after, did

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Speaker 1: it always go back to like nothing ever happened? It was,

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Speaker 1: of course, of.

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Speaker 2: Course, because you know, it's loving it. Look, it's the

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Speaker 2: strangest love that you could have, because they'd hit each

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Speaker 2: other and hate each other, and then they'll come back

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Speaker 2: and say sorry, it never happened again. You're like, okay,

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Speaker 2: and then it's back to normal again. You're not sure

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Speaker 2: whether you're coming and going. Yeah, and then it went.

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Speaker 2: It got a bit too much one time, and I

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Speaker 2: remember my mom got beat up pretty bad, and in

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Speaker 2: my dad went to work, and then when he went

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Speaker 2: to work, we packed up and left. So the police

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Speaker 2: were there. I just remember the police being there, some

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Speaker 2: people that was in normal clothes, and we ended up

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Speaker 2: getting took to protective housing, which is where I spent

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Speaker 2: a lot of my childhood, growing up in things called

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Speaker 2: women's refuges, you know what I mean, Because yeah, so

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Speaker 2: I grew up in women's refuges, so I spent most

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Speaker 2: of my time surrounded by women, you know, So I

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Speaker 2: never really had a masculine person there. And my brother

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Speaker 2: was older, so he was staying around his friend's houses

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Speaker 2: rather than being in these women's refugees with us. So

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Speaker 2: you know I was the only boy in a women's

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Speaker 2: refuge with three hundred and eighty seven women.

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Speaker 1: Fuck me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so I was brought up by so many women.

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Speaker 1: What about school? What about schooling?

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Speaker 3: Though?

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Speaker 2: Score was rough man because because every time my dad

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Speaker 2: found us, we had to move. So I've literally been

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Speaker 2: to over one hundred schools. One time I was in school,

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Speaker 2: I went into school, I was there a day, and

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Speaker 2: then I had to go and then join up to

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Speaker 2: another school, and I was in that school for two

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Speaker 2: weeks and then my dad found us again.

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Speaker 1: How old were you doing?

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Speaker 2: It wasn't so it started probably I was about four

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Speaker 2: or five when it started. So from four or five

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Speaker 2: right up until I got expelled in high school, I

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Speaker 2: was in and out of school. Not because I was

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Speaker 2: a nuisance, just because I was a nuisance when I

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Speaker 2: was at high school. Is when I was younger, I

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Speaker 2: was in and out of schools because we were being

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Speaker 2: moved around.

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Speaker 1: Did you ever get pissed off with your dad for

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Speaker 1: doing that?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Did you know?

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Speaker 2: I was so listen, I was so young, yeah, with

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Speaker 2: understanding that emotion that I just wondered where my dad

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Speaker 2: went because one minute he was there, next minute he

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Speaker 2: was gone. And like your mom did to you. My

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Speaker 2: mom used to say, your dad's a bad man, and

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Speaker 2: throughout our life he was a horrible person. But as

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Speaker 2: I was getting older, I felt like I was missing

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Speaker 2: what everybody else had, a dad, a father and man figure.

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Speaker 2: My brother was here and there, do you know what

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Speaker 2: I mean. It wasn't until I started getting older that

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Speaker 2: he started paying attention to me as a young man,

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Speaker 2: where he started teaching me how to cook and shave,

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Speaker 2: not a mad but shave and dress and stuff. You know.

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Speaker 2: It wasn't until I started getting older in my teens

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Speaker 2: where he become a father figure to me.

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Speaker 1: Yea.

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Speaker 2: But I always wanted to know about my dad. As

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Speaker 2: much as I heard it and as much as my

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Speaker 2: mum was telling me all this stuff, I was still curious.

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Speaker 2: I wanted to know about who my dad was and

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Speaker 2: why he did it.

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Speaker 1: Did you ask him?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? I found him. I went and found him. The

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Speaker 2: first time I went there, I went to his house

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Speaker 2: at nighttime. I drove up to London. I was a

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Speaker 2: visiting family, and I went around his house and I

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Speaker 2: went up to the door and then I walked away

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Speaker 2: from the door because I didn't I didn't know if

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Speaker 2: he was going to be happy that I turned up

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Speaker 2: or whether I was going to have the same respect

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Speaker 2: is what my mom did. So I went back to

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Speaker 2: the car and I read a letter saying, two Paul

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Speaker 2: stands because his name's the same as mine, two Paul stands.

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Speaker 2: But I didn't even put dad. I was really I was.

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Speaker 2: Emotion wise, I was. I was so up that when

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Speaker 2: I got there, I dropped. I plummeted hard because I

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Speaker 2: wanted to see this guy and I wanted to I

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Speaker 2: had this imagination of what he would be like as

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Speaker 2: a father to me. It was nothing like I thought.

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Speaker 2: It was nothing like I thought. You know, it's all

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Speaker 2: smokes and mirrors with him, unfortunately, but I wrote this letter.

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Speaker 2: I basically said, you've not been a dad to me,

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Speaker 2: and I really went at him. I posted the letter,

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Speaker 2: but I thought it was his house and it was

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Speaker 2: an next door neighbor's house. Fuck yeah, And do you

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Speaker 2: know what it is? I didn't know, and I didn't

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Speaker 2: mean that in any way. Yeah. But later on, like

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Speaker 2: a few years later, I had come back and I

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Speaker 2: had the bulls to go and to go and knock

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Speaker 2: on the door, because I really I was curious, and

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Speaker 2: it wasn't then until he told me that I posted

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Speaker 2: letter next door. And after posting a letter next door,

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Speaker 2: he told me how humiliating that was, which I thought

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Speaker 2: was a bit of a bad move for him to

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Speaker 2: say how embarrassed he was that the letter went next

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Speaker 2: door because I had to live it for years and

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Speaker 2: he only had a letter drop on a doorstep, do

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Speaker 2: you know what I mean? There was no apology for

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Speaker 2: him making me have to make new friends at school

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Speaker 2: over one hundred times, you know what I mean. There

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Speaker 2: was no I had to share a bathroom with like

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Speaker 2: loads of other people and we all ate together with it.

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Speaker 2: There was no what about my embarrassment, you know what

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Speaker 2: I mean? So for me straight away, I was like

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Speaker 2: a little bit disrespectful, but I didn't say nothing because

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Speaker 2: I really wanted to know. I wanted to know him.

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Speaker 2: I wanted to see if we was alike. I wanted

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Speaker 2: to know if I was going to end up being

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Speaker 2: like him. I wanted to know where because I'm so

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Speaker 2: different from the rest of my family that all of

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Speaker 2: my brothers and my sisters are like my mom's side

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Speaker 2: of the family, and I was very different. So I

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Speaker 2: wanted to know where I come from, why I'm the

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Speaker 2: way I am, Why am I so different from them?

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Speaker 3: You know?

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Speaker 2: So I had a lot of curious going on in

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Speaker 2: my head where I needed to find out where I

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Speaker 2: come from genetically, to find out if I'm going to

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Speaker 2: be as messed up as everybody else.

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Speaker 1: You know, were you disappointed when you when you kind

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Speaker 1: of like got to know him, like when you confronted them?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, yeah, I was for many reasons because do

225
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Speaker 2: you know when they say you should ever meet your idol? Yeah,

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Speaker 2: because it's a disappointment. You're never. It's never how you

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Speaker 2: imagine it's going to be. That was a bit like

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Speaker 2: that with me and my father. So my dad he's

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Speaker 2: got a house and he's he's quite successful in the

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Speaker 2: job that he does in that lot, but did he

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Speaker 2: really matter? Yeah he did. Yeah. He he got with

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Speaker 2: another woman not long after my mum and had some

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Speaker 2: more children, and they are so different from from us,

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Speaker 2: so different.

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Speaker 1: Do you think it's do you think it's it was

236
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Speaker 1: made you the you are today?

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Speaker 2: Though, very much so. A lot has made me the

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Speaker 2: person I am today, but the parent I am today,

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Speaker 2: very much so.

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Speaker 1: Because you want to be different to how you were

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Speaker 1: treated when you were a kid.

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Speaker 2: You never wear yeah exactly. I mean, you know, some

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Speaker 2: people give harsh lessons to bring to teach you to

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Speaker 2: be a man, and I don't think you need that,

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Speaker 2: do you know what I mean? I just think you

246
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Speaker 2: just need, you know, nourishment and just guidance rather than

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Speaker 2: you need to be like this way, you know, because

248
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Speaker 2: it's almost a sense of still, I don't know, like

249
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Speaker 2: alpha power when you have when you're not really an alpha,

250
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Speaker 2: do you know what I mean?

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Speaker 1: But did did this make you rebel?

252
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Speaker 2: Yes? But it wasn't my dad that made me rebel.

253
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Speaker 2: My mum met another geezer and he was absolutely a horrible,

254
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Speaker 2: horrible guy. But my mom got with him because he

255
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Speaker 2: was a big guy, and I think she got with

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Speaker 2: him to keep my dad away from her. Okay, but

257
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Speaker 2: she just traded what she had with another guy with

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Speaker 2: more power. Do you do you understand?

259
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Speaker 1: Yeah?

260
00:12:11,001 --> 00:12:15,721
Speaker 2: Yeah, So her protecting herself from him put her directly

261
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Speaker 2: in danger again. And this guy hated me. He hated

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Speaker 2: me because I am the carbon copy spitting image of

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Speaker 2: my old man.

264
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Speaker 1: So what was that like?

265
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Speaker 2: And he hated it?

266
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Speaker 1: In what way did he did he do anything to

267
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Speaker 1: make you like feel like not wanted?

268
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Speaker 2: Yeah? Made everything like I was grounded all the time

269
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Speaker 2: for nothing. He used to come and like mentally mess

270
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Speaker 2: with my head. He loved WWF and I was his playbuddy,

271
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Speaker 2: do you know what I mean? Like he'd twist me

272
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Speaker 2: up like mad met It was like six foot six

273
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Speaker 2: foot three, six foot four, and he'd twist me up, mate,

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Speaker 2: really hurts, you know, like as a kid, put my

275
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Speaker 2: legs over my head, like do everything he could so

276
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Speaker 2: get me to cry.

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Speaker 1: What did your mom do?

278
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Speaker 2: My mom was like, you need a harden up son,

279
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Speaker 2: do you know what I mean? And do this because

280
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Speaker 2: she never saw she she got brought up fairly rough

281
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Speaker 2: as well, so this was like normal. But she just

282
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Speaker 2: see it as like stop being so rough with him,

283
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Speaker 2: and then they'd argue. So it was kind of like

284
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Speaker 2: so he'd end up doing this when she'd be out

285
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Speaker 2: working or she'd go to the shop. This is when

286
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Speaker 2: he stopped so she's not around. And then there was times, mate,

287
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Speaker 2: I thought I was wetting the beds for years. I

288
00:13:28,001 --> 00:13:30,121
Speaker 2: thought I was coming up into coming up in the

289
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Speaker 2: high school wetting the beds. You know, it wasn't this

290
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Speaker 2: geezer was coming in at nighttime, pouring water over us

291
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Speaker 2: and then like having a go, say you're grounded because

292
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Speaker 2: he had no friends so he and he loved football,

293
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Speaker 2: so he used to pour water over us. Tell my mom,

294
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Speaker 2: I'd wet the bed. And then my grounding was to

295
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Speaker 2: go and play football. I wouldn't be allowed out of

296
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Speaker 2: my room. The only time I was allowed out of

297
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Speaker 2: my room was to go and play football. This guy

298
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Speaker 2: fuck me.

299
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Speaker 1: Yeah that's been twisted.

300
00:14:03,921 --> 00:14:06,161
Speaker 2: Yeah it really is. So it was all for him,

301
00:14:06,321 --> 00:14:09,641
Speaker 2: it was all mine. He never slapped me, He never

302
00:14:11,441 --> 00:14:16,281
Speaker 2: enforced himself like like ah, it was all mind games

303
00:14:16,441 --> 00:14:21,001
Speaker 2: and it was all hard gripping and twisting up. That

304
00:14:21,161 --> 00:14:23,001
Speaker 2: was what he was doing to me.

305
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Speaker 1: Are they still together?

306
00:14:25,561 --> 00:14:25,881
Speaker 3: Nah?

307
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Speaker 2: Nah? But that's when I started rebelling.

308
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Speaker 1: So what did you do to rebel?

309
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Speaker 2: Like? What was that?

310
00:14:32,961 --> 00:14:33,081
Speaker 3: Like?

311
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Speaker 1: Just go out and rebel? Or like what was it?

312
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Speaker 2: So after he left, I had my first fight at school,

313
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Speaker 2: and then I got a taste for it and realized

314
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Speaker 2: that I wasn't what he would make me believe I

315
00:14:47,681 --> 00:14:50,361
Speaker 2: was like because he made me feel like I was weak.

316
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Speaker 2: He made me feel like I was nothing like I

317
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Speaker 2: had no power like he made me feel like a child,

318
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Speaker 2: even when I was growing into a teenager. He made

319
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Speaker 2: me feel like I was this week feeble individual that

320
00:15:03,001 --> 00:15:05,921
Speaker 2: couldn't say boo to a ghost. I was just like, oh,

321
00:15:06,001 --> 00:15:08,121
Speaker 2: you're you know you're pussy. You need to say all

322
00:15:08,121 --> 00:15:10,881
Speaker 2: this stuff to get into my head so I wouldn't

323
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Speaker 2: react back to him, so I'd just be accepting all

324
00:15:13,081 --> 00:15:15,761
Speaker 2: of this. But after he left and I had my

325
00:15:15,801 --> 00:15:19,081
Speaker 2: first fight, I thought to myself, and this boy I

326
00:15:19,161 --> 00:15:20,441
Speaker 2: had a fight with him. He was bigger than me,

327
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Speaker 2: and I've done him. But I was shocked that I'd

328
00:15:24,441 --> 00:15:26,121
Speaker 2: done him because I didn't think I had that in me.

329
00:15:27,121 --> 00:15:29,121
Speaker 2: But when I sat there and I thought about it,

330
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Speaker 2: there was no one that was of my age or

331
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Speaker 2: a little bit older that was going to be able

332
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Speaker 2: to test me. Because I've been taking it for years

333
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Speaker 2: from a six foot four geezer who was like crazy

334
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Speaker 2: strong and twisted me up to a point where I

335
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Speaker 2: was able not to cry even when I was in pain. Yeah,

336
00:15:47,721 --> 00:15:50,241
Speaker 2: because I couldn't show him. I couldn't. I couldn't give

337
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Speaker 2: him that because even though he's took my strength power

338
00:15:54,801 --> 00:15:58,601
Speaker 2: from me, I couldn't let him take my my inner power,

339
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Speaker 2: do you know what I mean? Because if I did

340
00:16:00,441 --> 00:16:03,361
Speaker 2: do that, there's there's there's that's hard to come back

341
00:16:03,401 --> 00:16:04,001
Speaker 2: from that, ain't it?

342
00:16:04,601 --> 00:16:08,521
Speaker 1: Y I did. I didn't. I didn't rebell go by fighting,

343
00:16:08,841 --> 00:16:12,121
Speaker 1: by rebelled by going around stealing cars. And that was

344
00:16:12,161 --> 00:16:13,921
Speaker 1: my way because I never used to hang around with

345
00:16:13,921 --> 00:16:17,361
Speaker 1: anybody to who did that. But then because I was

346
00:16:17,401 --> 00:16:20,161
Speaker 1: having trouble at home, and I you know, I just

347
00:16:20,201 --> 00:16:22,961
Speaker 1: went fucking I started hanging around with guys and you

348
00:16:23,001 --> 00:16:24,961
Speaker 1: wouldn't tell them. You just say, I'm playing football at

349
00:16:24,961 --> 00:16:26,721
Speaker 1: the park, but I'm going to rob cars and going

350
00:16:26,761 --> 00:16:29,281
Speaker 1: in golf courses and fucking, you know, doing handbrake turns

351
00:16:29,281 --> 00:16:31,481
Speaker 1: in fucking in the cars, you know what I mean,

352
00:16:31,841 --> 00:16:33,961
Speaker 1: going over the fucking sandhills and the bunkers, you know

353
00:16:33,961 --> 00:16:37,281
Speaker 1: what I mean. But then I'd go home like I'm

354
00:16:37,281 --> 00:16:39,241
Speaker 1: carrying my ball like I was, you know, I just

355
00:16:39,321 --> 00:16:41,081
Speaker 1: had a game of football in the park, you know

356
00:16:41,121 --> 00:16:41,481
Speaker 1: what I mean.

357
00:16:41,681 --> 00:16:45,161
Speaker 2: Yeah, I I've been them myself. I mean not the

358
00:16:45,161 --> 00:16:51,361
Speaker 2: golf courses, but myself with the stealing cars and myself,

359
00:16:52,281 --> 00:16:54,681
Speaker 2: I've done I did nick a lot, but I've never

360
00:16:54,721 --> 00:16:57,601
Speaker 2: done how It was just and just shot, you know,

361
00:16:59,121 --> 00:17:01,001
Speaker 2: I don't, I don't, I don't know. I got involved

362
00:17:01,001 --> 00:17:02,601
Speaker 2: with all that lot as well, but that wasn't until

363
00:17:02,601 --> 00:17:07,201
Speaker 2: after So what what age group did you start? I

364
00:17:07,241 --> 00:17:08,161
Speaker 2: was about twelve?

365
00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:10,080
Speaker 1: Oh fuck that early?

366
00:17:10,201 --> 00:17:10,561
Speaker 2: Yeah?

367
00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:13,041
Speaker 1: And what did you do for rebell Was it mostly

368
00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:14,681
Speaker 1: just fighting in school or what?

369
00:17:14,801 --> 00:17:18,400
Speaker 2: Yeah? It was kind of laying my laying my footwork

370
00:17:18,441 --> 00:17:24,360
Speaker 2: down for rebelling against anyone authority. Basically, anyone that was

371
00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:28,521
Speaker 2: telling me to do something I'd refuse that would end

372
00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:34,761
Speaker 2: up followed by violence. Anyone that was standing in my way,

373
00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:37,840
Speaker 2: anyone that was to try and take away my strength

374
00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:41,321
Speaker 2: was a problem, whether it was just them shouting or

375
00:17:41,360 --> 00:17:44,641
Speaker 2: whether it was then being physical or them laying their

376
00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:46,760
Speaker 2: dominance down, were telling me what to do, even though

377
00:17:46,801 --> 00:17:48,440
Speaker 2: I should have listened because there were adults and I

378
00:17:48,481 --> 00:17:50,361
Speaker 2: was a child, you know, but I just won't haveing

379
00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:52,201
Speaker 2: none of it. Wow.

380
00:17:52,561 --> 00:17:53,401
Speaker 1: Didn't get expelled?

381
00:17:54,521 --> 00:17:57,640
Speaker 2: Yeah? I got expelled a lot. Yeah, I got expelled.

382
00:17:58,041 --> 00:18:00,200
Speaker 2: It got to a point where none of those schools

383
00:18:00,201 --> 00:18:02,041
Speaker 2: would take me, and I ended up at a naughty boys'

384
00:18:02,041 --> 00:18:05,120
Speaker 2: school and that was I was only they used to

385
00:18:05,120 --> 00:18:07,601
Speaker 2: come and get me in a taxi because I wouldn't

386
00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:10,080
Speaker 2: get on any transport or nothing. They'd picked me up

387
00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:13,440
Speaker 2: in a taxi. They drive me to the school. I

388
00:18:13,521 --> 00:18:15,521
Speaker 2: was there for no longer than three hours because my

389
00:18:15,561 --> 00:18:17,880
Speaker 2: mind would only allow me to concentrate for three hours

390
00:18:17,961 --> 00:18:20,640
Speaker 2: before I started getting like aggravated, and then I'd end

391
00:18:20,761 --> 00:18:23,201
Speaker 2: up fighting, and then the taxi would take me home again.

392
00:18:23,241 --> 00:18:25,041
Speaker 2: And I'd only have to do that three times a week.

393
00:18:25,521 --> 00:18:27,640
Speaker 2: So my school, I'd only have to go to school

394
00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:32,321
Speaker 2: three times a week for three hours each day. Shit. Yeah,

395
00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:36,400
Speaker 2: so yeah, and you know, the school was good, But

396
00:18:37,761 --> 00:18:40,801
Speaker 2: it was good because the teachers understood you rather than

397
00:18:40,961 --> 00:18:43,161
Speaker 2: they didn't tell you. They understood you, and they talked

398
00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:45,840
Speaker 2: to you like a person rather than so the teachers,

399
00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:49,761
Speaker 2: I couldn't fault them, but it was you're in a

400
00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:52,801
Speaker 2: school of naughty kids, and each of them was bad

401
00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:55,200
Speaker 2: in their school. So when they get to a school

402
00:18:55,241 --> 00:18:57,921
Speaker 2: where each kid has been kicked out for the same thing,

403
00:18:58,481 --> 00:19:00,961
Speaker 2: you're laying dominance down in this school. And there was

404
00:19:01,521 --> 00:19:04,481
Speaker 2: there's a guy, he me and this one other guy.

405
00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:07,001
Speaker 2: We was we'd never be nothing out of life. It

406
00:19:07,041 --> 00:19:10,481
Speaker 2: would be we'd never have children, we never have wives.

407
00:19:10,521 --> 00:19:12,321
Speaker 2: We just go to jowl and all this like yeah,

408
00:19:12,681 --> 00:19:14,521
Speaker 2: and me and him have been the most successful ones

409
00:19:14,561 --> 00:19:20,481
Speaker 2: that left at school. He's called David Steel and he

410
00:19:20,561 --> 00:19:22,521
Speaker 2: actually is my window cleaner. Now he's got a window

411
00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:27,600
Speaker 2: he really he's really successful and he does all my

412
00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:29,200
Speaker 2: windows and another. But when he was at school, he

413
00:19:29,241 --> 00:19:30,920
Speaker 2: was going he wanted to go off to the Navy,

414
00:19:31,041 --> 00:19:32,641
Speaker 2: and he went off to the Navy. He got kicked

415
00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:35,361
Speaker 2: out of there. But yeah, he cleans my windows now

416
00:19:35,360 --> 00:19:36,561
Speaker 2: in the town shop.

417
00:19:36,721 --> 00:19:40,481
Speaker 1: That's funny. That's funny. So when you get to about

418
00:19:40,481 --> 00:19:42,720
Speaker 1: your late teens, what are you up to? What are

419
00:19:42,761 --> 00:19:44,840
Speaker 1: you doing? Like seventeen? Everything?

420
00:19:45,801 --> 00:19:48,401
Speaker 2: Everything, I mean, I say everything. I'm not doing drugs.

421
00:19:48,481 --> 00:19:51,120
Speaker 2: I'm not. I don't. I'm not smoking. I'm not. I

422
00:19:51,201 --> 00:19:54,001
Speaker 2: wasn't like that wayward you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but

423
00:19:54,681 --> 00:19:58,961
Speaker 2: stolen gear, stealing cars, selling cars to stripping the cars out,

424
00:19:59,041 --> 00:20:01,961
Speaker 2: motorbikes and fight that was me, mate.

425
00:20:01,961 --> 00:20:03,321
Speaker 1: What was your mother thinking at this time?

426
00:20:04,041 --> 00:20:07,880
Speaker 2: Me and my brother we was allowed to be that

427
00:20:07,961 --> 00:20:11,640
Speaker 2: way because it was like the whole Peggy Mitchell and

428
00:20:11,681 --> 00:20:14,841
Speaker 2: Phil Grant thing, like my boys, you know what I mean.

429
00:20:14,961 --> 00:20:17,600
Speaker 2: So we was like if we had a fight and

430
00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:20,641
Speaker 2: we went back, I said, MoMA just had a fight.

431
00:20:20,681 --> 00:20:23,801
Speaker 2: She'd be like, did you win? And it'd be like yeah,

432
00:20:23,921 --> 00:20:28,120
Speaker 2: She's like, good boy, go and get you know, carry

433
00:20:28,120 --> 00:20:30,400
Speaker 2: on basically, do you know what I mean? But it

434
00:20:30,481 --> 00:20:32,441
Speaker 2: was always did you win? And if we'd have said no,

435
00:20:32,561 --> 00:20:34,481
Speaker 2: it'd be like right, getting a car and then we'd

436
00:20:34,521 --> 00:20:36,281
Speaker 2: go round the house and then my mom would be

437
00:20:36,321 --> 00:20:39,281
Speaker 2: like your boys you know, or whatever wherever the situation

438
00:20:39,360 --> 00:20:42,001
Speaker 2: of being wow. But my mom was quite quite hands

439
00:20:42,001 --> 00:20:44,961
Speaker 2: on herself, like she not with us, not with the boys,

440
00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:47,321
Speaker 2: but she was hands on. She she got stuck in

441
00:20:47,360 --> 00:20:49,561
Speaker 2: if her dad turned up that she she she was

442
00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:53,440
Speaker 2: quite a fierce woman. She's a very short woman. But

443
00:20:53,521 --> 00:20:57,960
Speaker 2: you wouldn't mess with it. Honestly. Yeah, yeah, she's pretty fierce.

444
00:20:58,120 --> 00:21:02,281
Speaker 2: But because my mom had had these jokers as husbands,

445
00:21:03,281 --> 00:21:05,561
Speaker 2: it was mine and my brother's job. As we got

446
00:21:05,561 --> 00:21:09,640
Speaker 2: older and we was more fighting, she almost prepped us

447
00:21:09,681 --> 00:21:11,881
Speaker 2: in case they come back, do you know what I mean?

448
00:21:11,921 --> 00:21:17,161
Speaker 2: So we was prepped to and but listen, my mum

449
00:21:17,241 --> 00:21:20,480
Speaker 2: done good. Yeah, my mom brought me up. Well, I

450
00:21:20,521 --> 00:21:23,640
Speaker 2: have no problems with how my mum and what my

451
00:21:23,721 --> 00:21:25,721
Speaker 2: mum done for me. She fed us when she never

452
00:21:25,801 --> 00:21:31,041
Speaker 2: had nothing, she went without, so wee could have not toys, food, clothes. Yeah.

453
00:21:31,360 --> 00:21:35,160
Speaker 2: So my mum was a very good woman. When it

454
00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:37,761
Speaker 2: comes to the hugs and stuff, not so much. We

455
00:21:37,801 --> 00:21:40,761
Speaker 2: didn't have all that emotional hugs and the kisses we had.

456
00:21:41,001 --> 00:21:42,921
Speaker 2: I love you boys, I love you too, and it's

457
00:21:43,001 --> 00:21:45,241
Speaker 2: kind of like that, but there was no like hugs

458
00:21:45,241 --> 00:21:47,321
Speaker 2: and stuff. Me. I'm a hugger. I love a hug,

459
00:21:47,360 --> 00:21:48,561
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. So if you want to

460
00:21:48,561 --> 00:21:49,921
Speaker 2: give me a hug, I'm going to give you a hug,

461
00:21:49,921 --> 00:21:52,241
Speaker 2: and I probably won't let go first, you know.

462
00:21:52,321 --> 00:21:55,961
Speaker 1: But it's but how have you got like that if

463
00:21:56,001 --> 00:21:57,201
Speaker 1: your mother wasn't like that.

464
00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:00,761
Speaker 2: Yeah, my brother wasn't like it either. My brother wasn't

465
00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:02,880
Speaker 2: like it, And that's why I wanted to know. Like,

466
00:22:02,921 --> 00:22:05,721
Speaker 2: my family are not very huggab with people, you know

467
00:22:05,761 --> 00:22:08,640
Speaker 2: what I mean. They're like, you're right dead arm, you know,

468
00:22:08,761 --> 00:22:11,960
Speaker 2: it's like you're good, like you go kiss me. You

469
00:22:12,001 --> 00:22:13,321
Speaker 2: kissed me on top of the edge, don't kiss me

470
00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:14,840
Speaker 2: on the cheek. It's weird, you know, you know, Like

471
00:22:14,921 --> 00:22:18,480
Speaker 2: it's like that. Yeah. So and when they come in

472
00:22:18,521 --> 00:22:20,120
Speaker 2: they touch you on the shoulder and they're like brush

473
00:22:20,120 --> 00:22:21,481
Speaker 2: off your shoulder, like, oh, get off, what are you

474
00:22:21,481 --> 00:22:24,321
Speaker 2: doing that for that's weird, like stop it, but but

475
00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:25,840
Speaker 2: like my friend, don't get my hug, and I won't

476
00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:28,281
Speaker 2: to let go. You know, it's strange. It's strange. I

477
00:22:28,321 --> 00:22:30,321
Speaker 2: don't know. That's why I wanted to know why I

478
00:22:30,521 --> 00:22:34,920
Speaker 2: was emotionally attached with myself enough to be able to

479
00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:37,521
Speaker 2: have a scrap one second and then give you a

480
00:22:37,561 --> 00:22:39,120
Speaker 2: hug the next. Do you know what I mean? I

481
00:22:39,360 --> 00:22:41,840
Speaker 2: didn't understand what was going on. I wasn't I wasn't

482
00:22:41,921 --> 00:22:52,041
Speaker 2: taught the difference between between being a lunatic and being

483
00:22:52,241 --> 00:22:54,240
Speaker 2: a lover. I wasn't taught the difference, so it was

484
00:22:54,321 --> 00:22:56,880
Speaker 2: just merged into one like I'll smack you and feel

485
00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:59,921
Speaker 2: bad for it. M I didn't want to do it,

486
00:23:00,201 --> 00:23:02,441
Speaker 2: but I just did it, you know, And it's I'm

487
00:23:02,481 --> 00:23:04,561
Speaker 2: not proud of who I was or what I've done,

488
00:23:04,681 --> 00:23:08,121
Speaker 2: and I've apologize as I've got older. And of course

489
00:23:08,201 --> 00:23:09,720
Speaker 2: the trauma has been on the other side of us

490
00:23:09,761 --> 00:23:12,640
Speaker 2: now because of what happened with my brother, which we

491
00:23:12,761 --> 00:23:18,001
Speaker 2: get to, but feeling what has been done to me

492
00:23:18,961 --> 00:23:23,801
Speaker 2: made me go in myself and realize how much I

493
00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:27,041
Speaker 2: was doing that was so negative that I was making

494
00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:31,401
Speaker 2: other people feel how I feel, and that changed me massively.

495
00:23:32,761 --> 00:23:34,481
Speaker 1: When did you When did you think it got out

496
00:23:34,481 --> 00:23:34,801
Speaker 1: of hand?

497
00:23:38,001 --> 00:23:43,361
Speaker 2: Straight straight away? As soon as he left. Soon as

498
00:23:43,360 --> 00:23:47,480
Speaker 2: he left, I had to I literally had to be

499
00:23:47,721 --> 00:23:51,160
Speaker 2: a different person. And I'd done whatever it took to

500
00:23:52,481 --> 00:23:54,921
Speaker 2: be the person that I know that if he ever

501
00:23:55,001 --> 00:23:58,441
Speaker 2: come back, it's game time.

502
00:23:59,921 --> 00:24:01,520
Speaker 1: Oh so you were prepared to do it.

503
00:24:03,321 --> 00:24:05,521
Speaker 2: I was prepared to take him out, like sure, one

504
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:07,640
Speaker 2: hundred percent, yeah, because of what he'd done for me,

505
00:24:08,120 --> 00:24:10,920
Speaker 2: you know. And and I went to the gym, I

506
00:24:11,001 --> 00:24:14,721
Speaker 2: got tattoos, I I was fighting. I was. I was

507
00:24:14,761 --> 00:24:17,880
Speaker 2: full on, like if you was, if you was, I

508
00:24:17,921 --> 00:24:21,561
Speaker 2: turned myself into this horrible person where if we was

509
00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:23,680
Speaker 2: walking down the road and he was looking and I know,

510
00:24:23,761 --> 00:24:25,440
Speaker 2: you're going to get people on here going Yeah, if

511
00:24:25,481 --> 00:24:27,161
Speaker 2: I saw him in the street, it beyond and I'd

512
00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:29,441
Speaker 2: make it my bitch and all that. Yeah, good good,

513
00:24:29,521 --> 00:24:31,720
Speaker 2: nice one, nice one, and they're great. But at that

514
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:36,001
Speaker 2: time I was I was relentless, mate, I was relentless,

515
00:24:36,241 --> 00:24:38,920
Speaker 2: and I got involved with everything as long as it

516
00:24:38,961 --> 00:24:42,240
Speaker 2: was violence, and it allowed me to be feared. I

517
00:24:42,360 --> 00:24:45,041
Speaker 2: was there and it was all for one reason and

518
00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:48,041
Speaker 2: one reason only. It was preparing myself for when that

519
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:48,961
Speaker 2: giant come back.

520
00:24:50,001 --> 00:24:51,001
Speaker 1: Did you ever see him again?

521
00:24:52,120 --> 00:24:56,521
Speaker 2: Do you know what I did I did?

522
00:24:57,400 --> 00:24:59,321
Speaker 1: Did you give him? Did you give a space?

523
00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:00,281
Speaker 2: This?

524
00:25:00,281 --> 00:25:00,640
Speaker 3: This?

525
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:02,881
Speaker 2: This will shock you, actually, yeah, this will shock you

526
00:25:03,201 --> 00:25:06,240
Speaker 2: because I was younger when I saw him. Yeah, so

527
00:25:06,321 --> 00:25:08,680
Speaker 2: I was. I was about sixteen seventeen when I saw him,

528
00:25:08,721 --> 00:25:10,281
Speaker 2: So I wasn't even a man and I was still

529
00:25:10,321 --> 00:25:14,400
Speaker 2: a child. And I always said to myself, when I

530
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:16,801
Speaker 2: see him, I'm gonna do this. He's like, I got

531
00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:18,400
Speaker 2: it in my head a million times over. I was

532
00:25:18,441 --> 00:25:22,241
Speaker 2: going to do them. And he come down the road

533
00:25:22,281 --> 00:25:24,681
Speaker 2: where we lived, and I was standing in the front

534
00:25:24,681 --> 00:25:28,401
Speaker 2: garden and Carl went past me and I saw him

535
00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:33,201
Speaker 2: and he looked at me and I was like, that's him.

536
00:25:33,521 --> 00:25:36,561
Speaker 2: And then he drove past again and didn't look, just

537
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:38,241
Speaker 2: drove past, and I was I was standing there and

538
00:25:38,281 --> 00:25:42,600
Speaker 2: I just went cold. I went cold, and I had

539
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:44,801
Speaker 2: it like it's at him. What I need to be

540
00:25:44,801 --> 00:25:46,961
Speaker 2: able to be prepared for him because he's gonna, he's gonna.

541
00:25:46,961 --> 00:25:49,600
Speaker 2: It's going to be on. Yeah. And he wound down

542
00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:53,001
Speaker 2: the window and he goes, you're right, Paul, because he

543
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:55,041
Speaker 2: drove back and he goes, you right, Paul, and I

544
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:57,761
Speaker 2: was looking at him and I was like, that was him, brother.

545
00:25:57,961 --> 00:26:02,840
Speaker 2: I froze. Never ever in my life have I ever

546
00:26:02,921 --> 00:26:06,401
Speaker 2: froze on anything, and not have I ever since then? Yeah,

547
00:26:06,561 --> 00:26:09,321
Speaker 2: but I went back to being a child again.

548
00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:10,561
Speaker 1: Yeah, that had.

549
00:26:10,481 --> 00:26:13,321
Speaker 2: Been twisted up by this Greenes Like I literally froze

550
00:26:14,041 --> 00:26:16,160
Speaker 2: and I didn't know what to do. Yeah, And this

551
00:26:16,360 --> 00:26:20,001
Speaker 2: was a shock to me because if he would have

552
00:26:20,041 --> 00:26:24,241
Speaker 2: come two years later, there wouldn't have been no freezing.

553
00:26:24,360 --> 00:26:26,761
Speaker 2: I would have because I was I was started like

554
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:31,160
Speaker 2: coming in to myself where when things were put on me,

555
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:33,001
Speaker 2: I was able to deal with it. But that was

556
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:34,961
Speaker 2: kind of like the first time that was just put

557
00:26:35,001 --> 00:26:37,801
Speaker 2: on me and I just reverted back to the child

558
00:26:37,801 --> 00:26:41,561
Speaker 2: again and never ever will that ever happen to me again.

559
00:26:42,001 --> 00:26:44,961
Speaker 1: So after after all that, and you're in your twenties,

560
00:26:45,241 --> 00:26:47,881
Speaker 1: what are you up to? Then you're still being violent? Well,

561
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:50,001
Speaker 1: tell me about tell me about a day being.

562
00:26:49,921 --> 00:26:54,640
Speaker 2: Violent, a day of being violent. It depends whether it

563
00:26:54,721 --> 00:26:56,200
Speaker 2: depends whether I've got a job on.

564
00:26:56,281 --> 00:26:58,961
Speaker 1: Like when when I tell me to tell me a

565
00:26:59,041 --> 00:27:01,721
Speaker 1: day when you got pissed off and you just got

566
00:27:01,721 --> 00:27:03,680
Speaker 1: when I go out on the fucking rampage, tell me

567
00:27:03,801 --> 00:27:04,960
Speaker 1: what a day would be in the like.

568
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:12,840
Speaker 2: From from the minute I'll wake up, I'm I'm feeling it.

569
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:15,801
Speaker 2: Do you know what I mean. I'm schizophrenic anyway, but

570
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:19,960
Speaker 2: I'm ID schizophrenic. Yeah, so like i was diagnosed a

571
00:27:20,001 --> 00:27:22,041
Speaker 2: little bit on from there. So I'm in my twenties,

572
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:25,321
Speaker 2: I'm diagnosed now that I'm ID schizophrenic. I've been in

573
00:27:25,360 --> 00:27:28,400
Speaker 2: and out of mental institutions where they deemed me unsafe

574
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:32,761
Speaker 2: to the public. Yeah. So if I'm having a bad day,

575
00:27:33,721 --> 00:27:36,761
Speaker 2: every everything, everything is on, it doesn't matter. Like if

576
00:27:36,801 --> 00:27:39,401
Speaker 2: you if I was walking down the road and this

577
00:27:39,441 --> 00:27:44,241
Speaker 2: is the me that I'm ashamed of. Yeah, now where

578
00:27:44,241 --> 00:27:47,961
Speaker 2: before I thrived off of it. Yeah, but I would

579
00:27:48,041 --> 00:27:50,880
Speaker 2: go out and if anyone who money. If my brother

580
00:27:51,001 --> 00:27:53,480
Speaker 2: was a dealer at the time, and I'd be the

581
00:27:53,481 --> 00:27:55,440
Speaker 2: one going to collect the debts for him, and he

582
00:27:55,521 --> 00:27:57,360
Speaker 2: had friends that done that, so I'd be I'd be

583
00:27:57,360 --> 00:28:00,201
Speaker 2: collecting money, you know what I'm talking about, And I'd

584
00:28:00,201 --> 00:28:02,761
Speaker 2: go and collect money. So I'll turn up in the

585
00:28:02,761 --> 00:28:05,961
Speaker 2: middle of the night when you're asleep, into your kingdom

586
00:28:06,041 --> 00:28:09,041
Speaker 2: where it's like you feel the most safe, and I'd

587
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:12,321
Speaker 2: dominate you where you are. You know, and I'd get

588
00:28:12,360 --> 00:28:15,080
Speaker 2: what I need to get from you, and that that

589
00:28:15,120 --> 00:28:16,840
Speaker 2: would be it. So if I was having a bad day,

590
00:28:17,360 --> 00:28:20,840
Speaker 2: the people that I worked for would love it because

591
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:23,521
Speaker 2: they'd be giving me all of this, like you need

592
00:28:23,521 --> 00:28:24,640
Speaker 2: to go and pick this up, you need to pick

593
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:27,080
Speaker 2: this up because they know that the job's getting done.

594
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:34,041
Speaker 2: So it is house collecting money, picking up any any

595
00:28:34,041 --> 00:28:36,120
Speaker 2: fight in between, like walking down the road. What you're

596
00:28:36,120 --> 00:28:39,401
Speaker 2: looking at this? This is what I'm saying. Like I've

597
00:28:39,401 --> 00:28:41,921
Speaker 2: said this a million times. Yeah, on all the other

598
00:28:42,001 --> 00:28:44,480
Speaker 2: podcasts that I've been on, and the amount of people

599
00:28:44,521 --> 00:28:46,481
Speaker 2: that go and they're going, yeah, i'd make you my bitch,

600
00:28:46,481 --> 00:28:48,760
Speaker 2: I'll do you and all that. Try it true, try it,

601
00:28:48,841 --> 00:28:50,361
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. Don't tru try it, you know.

602
00:28:50,481 --> 00:28:53,121
Speaker 2: And it's always private accounts with like no pictures, and

603
00:28:53,561 --> 00:28:57,681
Speaker 2: you know, it makes me die because yeah, you know, real,

604
00:28:57,721 --> 00:29:03,561
Speaker 2: recognize real, and I know that you ain't real, but

605
00:29:03,681 --> 00:29:06,321
Speaker 2: I was. I was never I never bullied, do you

606
00:29:06,401 --> 00:29:08,480
Speaker 2: know what I mean? Like, I never bullied. Like the

607
00:29:08,481 --> 00:29:12,441
Speaker 2: people that I did go after were people that ooh money.

608
00:29:12,481 --> 00:29:14,441
Speaker 2: It's that world. Do you know the world I'm talking about.

609
00:29:14,481 --> 00:29:17,041
Speaker 2: It's the world. So I wasn't out there just smacking

610
00:29:17,121 --> 00:29:19,480
Speaker 2: up someone that walked down the street, that was walking

611
00:29:19,481 --> 00:29:21,520
Speaker 2: a dog or nothing unless they started something.

612
00:29:22,081 --> 00:29:25,041
Speaker 1: You know, were you worse on alcohol or did you

613
00:29:24,921 --> 00:29:26,041
Speaker 1: know you've never doat you don't drink.

614
00:29:26,881 --> 00:29:29,481
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't drink. I don't drink. Alcohol didn't really

615
00:29:29,561 --> 00:29:32,441
Speaker 2: change me at all. I was just it was it

616
00:29:32,481 --> 00:29:34,921
Speaker 2: was the things that changed me is the people I'm

617
00:29:34,921 --> 00:29:37,521
Speaker 2: surrounded by. So if if they're negative and they're game,

618
00:29:38,001 --> 00:29:42,401
Speaker 2: i am gain. But if they're calm and they're collective,

619
00:29:42,481 --> 00:29:46,081
Speaker 2: I'm chilled. So it's whatever. But the problem is with

620
00:29:46,241 --> 00:29:48,241
Speaker 2: because I was that way, no one wanted to be

621
00:29:48,361 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 2: chilled around me. Everybody that was surrounding myself with was

622
00:29:51,521 --> 00:29:55,681
Speaker 2: in the same sort of trade, if you can call

623
00:29:55,721 --> 00:29:55,881
Speaker 2: it that.

624
00:29:56,361 --> 00:29:57,720
Speaker 1: Did you ever get arrested for this?

625
00:29:58,841 --> 00:30:01,401
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, yeah I've been. I've been arrested multiple times.

626
00:30:01,841 --> 00:30:04,041
Speaker 2: I was. I was up in I was the first

627
00:30:04,201 --> 00:30:07,081
Speaker 2: first person to be up in the new Crown Court

628
00:30:07,081 --> 00:30:11,001
Speaker 2: here in Ipswich when I was a kid for attempted

629
00:30:11,081 --> 00:30:17,161
Speaker 2: murder and it was I got found not guilty. So yeah,

630
00:30:17,281 --> 00:30:22,240
Speaker 2: not guilty. It wasn't me. It wasn't you wouldn't me.

631
00:30:22,401 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 2: But I was the youngest person here in Ipswich. For that,

632
00:30:24,561 --> 00:30:26,881
Speaker 2: I was the first person, the first person in the

633
00:30:26,921 --> 00:30:30,161
Speaker 2: youngest person that we tried for attempted murder in the

634
00:30:30,161 --> 00:30:32,481
Speaker 2: Crown court here in Ipswich when I was fifteen.

635
00:30:32,761 --> 00:30:35,601
Speaker 1: Well, are the coppers the coppers give you grief over

636
00:30:35,681 --> 00:30:37,441
Speaker 1: the way you were or Yeah?

637
00:30:37,521 --> 00:30:40,881
Speaker 2: So it was them that got me put in a

638
00:30:40,961 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 2: mental institution. They're the ones that had me put away

639
00:30:44,041 --> 00:30:47,481
Speaker 2: in this in the institution. They wouldn't the times when

640
00:30:47,521 --> 00:30:49,681
Speaker 2: I was growing up, they were allowed to take you

641
00:30:49,721 --> 00:30:54,720
Speaker 2: off the street and take you immediately to mental institutions

642
00:30:54,801 --> 00:30:57,801
Speaker 2: and say do not let them out until we say yeah.

643
00:30:57,841 --> 00:31:01,121
Speaker 2: And you were staying in there. You know they won't

644
00:31:01,161 --> 00:31:03,121
Speaker 2: let you out because the police have brought you there,

645
00:31:04,281 --> 00:31:05,801
Speaker 2: so they can leave you as long as you want.

646
00:31:05,801 --> 00:31:08,041
Speaker 2: And I was left there, brother, I was left there.

647
00:31:08,441 --> 00:31:12,121
Speaker 2: They forgot about me. Yeah, and I didn't realize that

648
00:31:12,121 --> 00:31:14,001
Speaker 2: that I was. I could I could leave if I

649
00:31:14,041 --> 00:31:18,561
Speaker 2: wanted to, but it was locked doors. They have to

650
00:31:18,641 --> 00:31:20,561
Speaker 2: let me out, do you know what I mean? And

651
00:31:20,721 --> 00:31:22,641
Speaker 2: they got got told I was allowed there. But I

652
00:31:22,681 --> 00:31:26,361
Speaker 2: managed to escape from the mental institution. I escaped. It

653
00:31:26,401 --> 00:31:28,641
Speaker 2: took me a while, but I've figured it out and

654
00:31:28,681 --> 00:31:34,921
Speaker 2: I got out of it. So I went like, I

655
00:31:34,961 --> 00:31:36,841
Speaker 2: went off to I said, I wasn't feeling too good.

656
00:31:36,841 --> 00:31:39,481
Speaker 2: They took me off to the nurses section of where

657
00:31:39,481 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 2: it was, and there was a door there that wasn't

658
00:31:42,601 --> 00:31:44,960
Speaker 2: It was always open and shut and open and shutting,

659
00:31:44,961 --> 00:31:48,121
Speaker 2: so it wasn't a locked door. And as soon as

660
00:31:48,121 --> 00:31:50,200
Speaker 2: that door, as soon as I realized that and I

661
00:31:50,241 --> 00:31:52,801
Speaker 2: was there, the dock turned around or the nurse turned around.

662
00:31:52,961 --> 00:31:55,241
Speaker 2: As I turn around, I was in a gown, open

663
00:31:55,361 --> 00:31:58,601
Speaker 2: back gown. I was out, I've done the door. I've

664
00:31:58,601 --> 00:32:00,841
Speaker 2: come running through the door. I'm running across the green

665
00:32:00,961 --> 00:32:04,281
Speaker 2: like I'm thinking, I'm a thundercat, straight hands, thumbs tucked

666
00:32:04,281 --> 00:32:07,440
Speaker 2: for proper, I'm duck down, I'm running my I feel

667
00:32:07,441 --> 00:32:14,681
Speaker 2: like a superhero because and I'm like, I guess, yeah,

668
00:32:14,681 --> 00:32:17,921
Speaker 2: they listen. If I wasn't a lunatic, I definitely looked

669
00:32:17,921 --> 00:32:20,761
Speaker 2: like one running across the ground. I stole this bike

670
00:32:20,841 --> 00:32:23,200
Speaker 2: with a basket on there with a bell and I

671
00:32:23,241 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 2: was like bringing, bring, bing, bring, and I was like

672
00:32:25,521 --> 00:32:28,841
Speaker 2: like this, my arse was all hanging out at the back,

673
00:32:28,921 --> 00:32:34,881
Speaker 2: and yeah, I must have looked like the right pictures. Yeah,

674
00:32:36,361 --> 00:32:38,161
Speaker 2: I was full speed. I've never ridden the bike so

675
00:32:38,241 --> 00:32:40,001
Speaker 2: fast as my life. Mate, I got I got back

676
00:32:40,041 --> 00:32:43,921
Speaker 2: home to my mum's house. I jumped in a car

677
00:32:44,321 --> 00:32:47,561
Speaker 2: and I was gone. Mate. I went up to I

678
00:32:47,601 --> 00:32:49,761
Speaker 2: went up and lived up a Newcastle. Well, I went

679
00:32:49,801 --> 00:32:54,321
Speaker 2: to Manchester. Yeah, I went to Manchester to go and

680
00:32:54,401 --> 00:32:56,721
Speaker 2: hide out at my friend's house and then I ended

681
00:32:56,801 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 2: up meeting a girl. I ended up in Sunderlands. We

682
00:32:59,561 --> 00:33:03,721
Speaker 2: lived in Newcastle and she was a nutter more worse

683
00:33:03,761 --> 00:33:04,641
Speaker 2: than what I was.

684
00:33:05,121 --> 00:33:10,361
Speaker 1: All fucking knots. Once you go past.

685
00:33:11,441 --> 00:33:15,960
Speaker 2: Utters, tell me about it. But like in between, in

686
00:33:16,041 --> 00:33:20,121
Speaker 2: between all that, I was wanted for a you know,

687
00:33:20,241 --> 00:33:22,440
Speaker 2: lucky like I say to you, I like, I'm anti

688
00:33:22,521 --> 00:33:25,000
Speaker 2: it now, but I was. I was. I was wanted

689
00:33:25,041 --> 00:33:30,361
Speaker 2: for a knife attack, which I fight against now with

690
00:33:30,401 --> 00:33:33,841
Speaker 2: my charity. But I was. I tried to stab someone

691
00:33:35,401 --> 00:33:37,281
Speaker 2: they called the old Bill and me I was wanted

692
00:33:37,321 --> 00:33:40,081
Speaker 2: for that. They found me in I went on a

693
00:33:40,081 --> 00:33:42,681
Speaker 2: missing person so danger person's think where they were going

694
00:33:42,761 --> 00:33:44,881
Speaker 2: to go on TV and say have you seen this guy?

695
00:33:45,201 --> 00:33:47,720
Speaker 2: But I was in a petrol station in York with

696
00:33:47,721 --> 00:33:52,241
Speaker 2: with with this girl and a guy held the door

697
00:33:52,281 --> 00:33:55,960
Speaker 2: open and as he turned round he sees and I

698
00:33:56,001 --> 00:33:58,801
Speaker 2: hope he watches this year. I really hope he watches this.

699
00:33:59,441 --> 00:34:01,561
Speaker 2: He opened the door for me, and he turned around,

700
00:34:01,601 --> 00:34:03,121
Speaker 2: took one look at me, and let go of the door.

701
00:34:03,361 --> 00:34:06,801
Speaker 2: And it smacked me. Yeah, because I don't know he

702
00:34:06,801 --> 00:34:08,520
Speaker 2: didn't like, well I looked or whatever, but he wasn't

703
00:34:08,561 --> 00:34:10,321
Speaker 2: holding the door open for me, but he was holding

704
00:34:10,321 --> 00:34:12,001
Speaker 2: it and then he released it after he looked at me,

705
00:34:12,201 --> 00:34:15,001
Speaker 2: and it smacked me. Yeah, and I said, I said,

706
00:34:15,201 --> 00:34:18,681
Speaker 2: wait for me outside. I played for the petrol. Yeah.

707
00:34:19,081 --> 00:34:20,641
Speaker 2: I was in this car, so I was. I was

708
00:34:20,641 --> 00:34:23,561
Speaker 2: a lump then I was I was absolutely massive. I

709
00:34:23,601 --> 00:34:25,480
Speaker 2: was a unit and I was in this tiny little

710
00:34:25,521 --> 00:34:31,601
Speaker 2: Pergo two six quite in his car. But this guy outside,

711
00:34:31,841 --> 00:34:33,561
Speaker 2: he gets in his car. He had an alpha a male,

712
00:34:34,121 --> 00:34:36,161
Speaker 2: a purple out for a male. And he gets in

713
00:34:36,201 --> 00:34:39,121
Speaker 2: his car and as I've gone walking towards him, he

714
00:34:39,161 --> 00:34:43,081
Speaker 2: goes like this, locks his car and smiles, yeah, like

715
00:34:43,161 --> 00:34:47,241
Speaker 2: he's safe in his car, like cocky. I started smashing.

716
00:34:47,361 --> 00:34:49,561
Speaker 2: I started punching the windows. I kicked the door in.

717
00:34:50,081 --> 00:34:51,721
Speaker 2: He didn't know what was going and I'm trying to

718
00:34:51,761 --> 00:34:55,121
Speaker 2: handle He started driving off. Yeah, and I'm hanging onto

719
00:34:55,201 --> 00:34:59,081
Speaker 2: the car yeah, he's driving off. He's literally not waiting

720
00:34:59,081 --> 00:35:05,401
Speaker 2: for no traffic. Mate. I'm telling here it is stupid, stupid. Yeah,

721
00:35:05,481 --> 00:35:07,361
Speaker 2: because I've put so many people in danger that day

722
00:35:07,401 --> 00:35:09,480
Speaker 2: because he just drove out in the traffic. I fell

723
00:35:09,481 --> 00:35:12,201
Speaker 2: off the car and as I'm screaming at this guy,

724
00:35:12,321 --> 00:35:14,521
Speaker 2: I turned around and when I turned around, there a

725
00:35:14,601 --> 00:35:16,561
Speaker 2: cop There's a cop car sitting there, and the cops

726
00:35:16,561 --> 00:35:19,041
Speaker 2: were standing there and they went, what's going on? I went,

727
00:35:19,921 --> 00:35:21,361
Speaker 2: I've turned around and been like to get in the

728
00:35:21,361 --> 00:35:24,001
Speaker 2: cars chase him. And as I've turned around, the cops

729
00:35:24,001 --> 00:35:26,241
Speaker 2: are standing. They go, what's going on? I was like, uh,

730
00:35:27,481 --> 00:35:33,721
Speaker 2: and I wanted and I'm stating there like nothing. They go,

731
00:35:33,881 --> 00:35:35,961
Speaker 2: we just see you keep that car. I said, no,

732
00:35:36,041 --> 00:35:38,961
Speaker 2: you didn't, So you did? I said no. I said

733
00:35:39,161 --> 00:35:41,361
Speaker 2: he closed his door when I was leaning on it,

734
00:35:41,441 --> 00:35:43,681
Speaker 2: and he had my jacket in his car and he

735
00:35:43,721 --> 00:35:49,081
Speaker 2: took me with him. They were like really, I went yeah,

736
00:35:49,481 --> 00:35:51,401
Speaker 2: and then he didn't know that I was attached to

737
00:35:51,441 --> 00:35:53,561
Speaker 2: his car. I don't think, but he's drive off now

738
00:35:54,801 --> 00:35:57,881
Speaker 2: and they took it. They took it. They went into

739
00:35:57,881 --> 00:36:00,081
Speaker 2: the petrol station and they said, is that guy? Do

740
00:36:00,121 --> 00:36:01,601
Speaker 2: you know this? Guys I said again. I was in

741
00:36:01,641 --> 00:36:04,401
Speaker 2: the petrol station. I was fine, yeah, and they went

742
00:36:04,441 --> 00:36:06,321
Speaker 2: in they said no, it's fine. And so now I'm

743
00:36:06,361 --> 00:36:08,321
Speaker 2: thinking I'm getting nicked. I'm getting took from York back

744
00:36:08,321 --> 00:36:12,121
Speaker 2: to Ipswich, right, so I'm kicking off now to this

745
00:36:12,241 --> 00:36:15,161
Speaker 2: coppers because it's authority and I'm like, mate, what's your problem?

746
00:36:15,321 --> 00:36:17,521
Speaker 2: Let's just what's that? Go calm down? What can we do?

747
00:36:17,601 --> 00:36:19,281
Speaker 2: Calm me down? So let me go. He said what's

748
00:36:19,281 --> 00:36:24,681
Speaker 2: your name? And I went Paul Read. He went, yeah,

749
00:36:24,761 --> 00:36:28,201
Speaker 2: Paul Read. It's because the Read was my stepdad's name,

750
00:36:28,281 --> 00:36:29,361
Speaker 2: the durable guy.

751
00:36:29,681 --> 00:36:30,081
Speaker 1: Yeah.

752
00:36:30,641 --> 00:36:32,801
Speaker 2: So whilst he's talking to me, he's doing a check

753
00:36:32,841 --> 00:36:37,480
Speaker 2: on Paul Rid. Yeah, and there's like nothing. Yeah, there's

754
00:36:37,521 --> 00:36:39,641
Speaker 2: like nothing for me. So they go all mate, off

755
00:36:39,681 --> 00:36:41,801
Speaker 2: you go. I was like yeah, it was like yeah.

756
00:36:41,801 --> 00:36:43,401
Speaker 2: I was like no, mate, had a good day. And

757
00:36:43,561 --> 00:36:45,241
Speaker 2: they've gone YouTube like no more of that, and I

758
00:36:45,281 --> 00:36:46,601
Speaker 2: was like, I don't know what we're talking about getting

759
00:36:46,601 --> 00:36:48,641
Speaker 2: a car? And I got off what that was? Me done?

760
00:36:48,801 --> 00:36:50,601
Speaker 2: What I was getting what I was getting took back?

761
00:36:50,961 --> 00:36:54,201
Speaker 1: Do you do you I get a persona of coppers

762
00:36:54,241 --> 00:36:57,521
Speaker 1: in England that I want to sound like in a

763
00:36:57,561 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 1: bad way. But are they all fucking dumb?

764
00:37:00,881 --> 00:37:04,641
Speaker 2: Yeah, like they're all dumb or they've got that small

765
00:37:04,681 --> 00:37:07,961
Speaker 2: person mentality where they were bullied, so they feel like

766
00:37:08,001 --> 00:37:10,161
Speaker 2: they have to lay that authority down and everybody to

767
00:37:10,201 --> 00:37:11,241
Speaker 2: be a you know.

768
00:37:11,281 --> 00:37:15,161
Speaker 1: Because over here there's probably any everywhere over the world.

769
00:37:15,841 --> 00:37:19,521
Speaker 1: Everyone laughs at the fucking English coppers because they don't

770
00:37:19,561 --> 00:37:22,441
Speaker 1: carry a fucking gun. They carry they still carry their

771
00:37:22,481 --> 00:37:25,401
Speaker 1: fucking stupid hats on their fucking head. They've still all

772
00:37:25,401 --> 00:37:28,281
Speaker 1: they have is the fucking battern and they just get

773
00:37:28,321 --> 00:37:30,961
Speaker 1: given it every fucking day by people, you know what

774
00:37:30,961 --> 00:37:32,801
Speaker 1: I mean? And I don't know.

775
00:37:32,841 --> 00:37:36,521
Speaker 2: It's like, as as irritated as the police are here,

776
00:37:36,521 --> 00:37:39,441
Speaker 2: we're pretty gifted because, like you say, they haven't got guns,

777
00:37:39,481 --> 00:37:45,241
Speaker 2: they haven't got they haven't got anything. I'm telling you man,

778
00:37:45,281 --> 00:37:47,281
Speaker 2: I've come across some street of coppers in my time

779
00:37:47,281 --> 00:37:48,841
Speaker 2: where I've been banned the rights and they just let

780
00:37:48,841 --> 00:37:51,041
Speaker 2: me go because I've been too aggressive for him. Do

781
00:37:51,041 --> 00:37:54,201
Speaker 2: you know what I mean? They can't manage it. But

782
00:37:55,961 --> 00:38:01,721
Speaker 2: my face went out on the the police data base

783
00:38:02,041 --> 00:38:05,361
Speaker 2: and I want to miss it once a person, Yeah,

784
00:38:05,401 --> 00:38:08,001
Speaker 2: I come up as a missing person. So because I

785
00:38:08,041 --> 00:38:11,521
Speaker 2: come up as a missing person and an urgent person

786
00:38:11,601 --> 00:38:15,241
Speaker 2: to get off the street because I'd run away from

787
00:38:15,241 --> 00:38:17,081
Speaker 2: a mental institution. I was schizphrenic, right.

788
00:38:17,001 --> 00:38:19,961
Speaker 1: Well, you put up as dangers, yeah.

789
00:38:19,761 --> 00:38:21,241
Speaker 2: So I was a danger to the public. That's what

790
00:38:21,281 --> 00:38:24,401
Speaker 2: it was. It was danger to the public. Do not approach,

791
00:38:25,401 --> 00:38:30,321
Speaker 2: just call the police, which again I'm not proud of now.

792
00:38:30,401 --> 00:38:32,561
Speaker 2: But then it was awesome because I was like, it

793
00:38:32,681 --> 00:38:34,961
Speaker 2: was the mentality that I wanted everyone to see me

794
00:38:35,001 --> 00:38:38,081
Speaker 2: to be because I thought that I had respect from everybody,

795
00:38:38,161 --> 00:38:41,201
Speaker 2: and it wasn't that. There's no respect on the street.

796
00:38:41,761 --> 00:38:45,681
Speaker 2: There's nothing. It's lonely. You're lonely. As much as you

797
00:38:45,721 --> 00:38:49,001
Speaker 2: feel like you're a part of something big, you ain't.

798
00:38:49,321 --> 00:38:52,281
Speaker 2: You're nothing. You're just a person that is willing to

799
00:38:52,321 --> 00:38:54,201
Speaker 2: do We're a little bit more than the next person.

800
00:38:54,481 --> 00:38:56,681
Speaker 2: And people will love you for that, and they'll use

801
00:38:56,721 --> 00:39:01,241
Speaker 2: you for that, and then they'll throw you away nobody nothing.

802
00:39:01,641 --> 00:39:06,041
Speaker 2: You are nothing at all, and they put me out

803
00:39:06,081 --> 00:39:08,921
Speaker 2: on the APB. I'll come up as like this person,

804
00:39:09,281 --> 00:39:12,081
Speaker 2: they found me, So I didn't go on the forty

805
00:39:12,081 --> 00:39:14,801
Speaker 2: eight hour missing TVF. We're looking for this person, please

806
00:39:14,841 --> 00:39:16,761
Speaker 2: find them. So now they found me in York. I've

807
00:39:16,801 --> 00:39:19,401
Speaker 2: had to leave York. I've gone back to Manchester. I'm

808
00:39:19,441 --> 00:39:25,081
Speaker 2: living in Manchester on Moss Side, which was wild Wild

809
00:39:25,201 --> 00:39:27,721
Speaker 2: moss Side is a is a is a place, mate,

810
00:39:28,121 --> 00:39:29,001
Speaker 2: So I'm over there.

811
00:39:29,041 --> 00:39:31,401
Speaker 1: I actually, I actually when I was when I got

812
00:39:31,681 --> 00:39:34,081
Speaker 1: got my driver's license and I was seventeen years old,

813
00:39:34,601 --> 00:39:38,081
Speaker 1: my fucking mate dared me to drive to Manchester and

814
00:39:38,161 --> 00:39:42,801
Speaker 1: go through my side. And I remember fucking fucking night

815
00:39:42,961 --> 00:39:46,440
Speaker 1: we got up there, and I swear I just didn't

816
00:39:46,441 --> 00:39:47,921
Speaker 1: think I was gonna like It's like, I don't know,

817
00:39:47,921 --> 00:39:49,521
Speaker 1: if you've ever been to Liverpool and there's a there's

818
00:39:49,521 --> 00:39:52,361
Speaker 1: a place exactly like it called Granby Street, and the

819
00:39:52,481 --> 00:39:54,641
Speaker 1: fucking it's the same thing. And he dared me to

820
00:39:54,681 --> 00:39:57,521
Speaker 1: do the same thing there, and I fucking stored my car,

821
00:39:57,841 --> 00:39:59,721
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. It's just like, what the fuck?

822
00:40:01,641 --> 00:40:03,721
Speaker 1: So I know what you're fucking talking about.

823
00:40:04,481 --> 00:40:08,321
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's just madness. But you know who

824
00:40:08,321 --> 00:40:10,121
Speaker 2: you were with everyone there? Do you know what I mean?

825
00:40:10,161 --> 00:40:11,921
Speaker 2: You know where you are with everyone. There is no

826
00:40:12,081 --> 00:40:14,841
Speaker 2: there's no hidden agendas. Everyone is on the same thing,

827
00:40:15,201 --> 00:40:18,601
Speaker 2: which is real dangerous because you've always got people at

828
00:40:18,641 --> 00:40:22,481
Speaker 2: hand to do jobs so you just you're never not

829
00:40:22,561 --> 00:40:25,401
Speaker 2: out of trouble. You're always in trouble because if you

830
00:40:25,401 --> 00:40:27,081
Speaker 2: don't stick up for the person in the street, you

831
00:40:27,081 --> 00:40:30,241
Speaker 2: ain't help them in the street, you know what I mean? So,

832
00:40:31,481 --> 00:40:32,001
Speaker 2: but did you.

833
00:40:32,001 --> 00:40:32,921
Speaker 1: Did you follow suit?

834
00:40:32,961 --> 00:40:33,081
Speaker 2: Though?

835
00:40:33,201 --> 00:40:35,321
Speaker 1: But by being it, by being in that area, did you,

836
00:40:35,441 --> 00:40:37,761
Speaker 1: like do you think you know, like with everyone else

837
00:40:37,761 --> 00:40:39,921
Speaker 1: what they were doing, did you follow suit with them?

838
00:40:40,521 --> 00:40:43,201
Speaker 2: Mate? I didn't listen. I didn't. I didn't fall in

839
00:40:43,281 --> 00:40:46,041
Speaker 2: line with nobody. I didn't fall in line with nobody.

840
00:40:46,241 --> 00:40:50,041
Speaker 2: I I wanted it. I was hungry for it. I

841
00:40:50,081 --> 00:40:53,721
Speaker 2: was bred to be that person. So I was always game.

842
00:40:53,761 --> 00:40:55,721
Speaker 2: It wasn't like do you want to come? It was

843
00:40:55,761 --> 00:40:59,361
Speaker 2: like I'm in you know. I was always I was

844
00:40:59,401 --> 00:41:01,321
Speaker 2: the game person that was ready to go. And that's

845
00:41:01,361 --> 00:41:03,441
Speaker 2: where I made the biggest mistake, because I felt like

846
00:41:04,081 --> 00:41:07,641
Speaker 2: doing more, doing the things that led me to be

847
00:41:09,241 --> 00:41:13,241
Speaker 2: not so much feared but to be unpredictable, led me

848
00:41:13,321 --> 00:41:16,081
Speaker 2: to believe that I had love where it wasn't because

849
00:41:16,081 --> 00:41:18,121
Speaker 2: I was looking for something that I never had as

850
00:41:18,161 --> 00:41:19,721
Speaker 2: a child, and that was.

851
00:41:21,001 --> 00:41:24,520
Speaker 1: You felt wanted by everybody else because of the fact

852
00:41:24,561 --> 00:41:26,881
Speaker 1: that they wanted you for who what you were like

853
00:41:27,041 --> 00:41:29,401
Speaker 1: what you could do for them, and so you felt

854
00:41:29,401 --> 00:41:31,241
Speaker 1: wanted because you didn't get that from your mom or

855
00:41:31,241 --> 00:41:32,281
Speaker 1: your father, you know what I mean.

856
00:41:32,921 --> 00:41:35,721
Speaker 2: So it was crazier I was the more people wanted

857
00:41:35,761 --> 00:41:38,201
Speaker 2: me around, you know what I mean? And I thought

858
00:41:38,201 --> 00:41:41,481
Speaker 2: that I was truly I felt like I belonged somewhere

859
00:41:41,961 --> 00:41:46,081
Speaker 2: where I wasn't actually supposed that I wasn't. I didn't

860
00:41:46,081 --> 00:41:49,881
Speaker 2: belong there, you know, because the love from the street

861
00:41:50,441 --> 00:41:55,841
Speaker 2: was the greatest thing ever. When I had nothing, I

862
00:41:55,841 --> 00:41:58,161
Speaker 2: didn't even have my soul. I never had anything. I

863
00:41:58,241 --> 00:42:01,881
Speaker 2: surrendered to everybody around me, and I was willing to die.

864
00:42:01,921 --> 00:42:03,921
Speaker 2: I was willing to go to jail. I was willing

865
00:42:04,481 --> 00:42:08,841
Speaker 2: to give up everything on who I was to be

866
00:42:08,961 --> 00:42:11,961
Speaker 2: a part of this society, do you know what I mean?

867
00:42:12,081 --> 00:42:19,081
Speaker 2: This family, this unit of just security because ain't no

868
00:42:19,081 --> 00:42:21,281
Speaker 2: one touching us when we're together in a group, you know.

869
00:42:21,521 --> 00:42:23,881
Speaker 2: And again it's not it wasn't gang mentality. It was

870
00:42:24,001 --> 00:42:25,321
Speaker 2: family and nowhere.

871
00:42:25,481 --> 00:42:27,521
Speaker 1: But where's your where's your where's your proper family? When

872
00:42:27,521 --> 00:42:28,841
Speaker 1: this is going on? Though? When you when you're in

873
00:42:28,841 --> 00:42:29,321
Speaker 1: Manchester with.

874
00:42:29,401 --> 00:42:33,041
Speaker 2: Are they they're doing their own thing. My brothers, my

875
00:42:33,041 --> 00:42:35,601
Speaker 2: brother was off doing he's thing because he got into

876
00:42:35,681 --> 00:42:38,480
Speaker 2: drugs pretty heavy and he was off doing his thing.

877
00:42:38,561 --> 00:42:41,161
Speaker 2: And my sisters and my mum they're like super close,

878
00:42:41,161 --> 00:42:43,601
Speaker 2: so it's like them, and then it's like me and

879
00:42:43,641 --> 00:42:46,440
Speaker 2: my brother are the the other. We'd get contacted if

880
00:42:46,441 --> 00:42:50,081
Speaker 2: something was going wrong or they needed some cash or

881
00:42:50,121 --> 00:42:54,481
Speaker 2: something would get I'd get the call for the cash,

882
00:42:54,521 --> 00:42:56,801
Speaker 2: and my brother, my brother and me would get the

883
00:42:56,801 --> 00:42:58,921
Speaker 2: call if if they is something someone had said something

884
00:42:58,961 --> 00:43:00,601
Speaker 2: to the family, wo'd come back and we'd deal with

885
00:43:00,601 --> 00:43:02,001
Speaker 2: it and then go back and carry on with what

886
00:43:02,041 --> 00:43:02,520
Speaker 2: we were doing.

887
00:43:02,561 --> 00:43:04,281
Speaker 1: You know, what's the worst thing you've done?

888
00:43:04,521 --> 00:43:08,121
Speaker 2: Well, I haven't really done a lot by law of conviction,

889
00:43:08,921 --> 00:43:15,681
Speaker 2: but like the alleged crimes, what I've been alleged to

890
00:43:15,721 --> 00:43:26,161
Speaker 2: have done, you know is allegedly you got.

891
00:43:33,481 --> 00:43:37,641
Speaker 1: We'll go with allegedly, Yeah, allegedly.

892
00:43:37,361 --> 00:43:43,361
Speaker 2: Allegedly there was you know, guns and the attempted murder

893
00:43:43,401 --> 00:43:49,681
Speaker 2: thing and which I found not guilty on. And what

894
00:43:49,801 --> 00:43:50,201
Speaker 2: was it like?

895
00:43:50,241 --> 00:43:52,041
Speaker 1: What was your stock now like that.

896
00:43:56,681 --> 00:43:57,841
Speaker 2: We should have had this conversation?

897
00:44:00,481 --> 00:44:07,721
Speaker 1: What what what was it like? Alleged you you've had weapons, right,

898
00:44:08,081 --> 00:44:11,520
Speaker 1: You've you've seen weapons before. What was it like being

899
00:44:11,561 --> 00:44:13,881
Speaker 1: that age? To actually see.

900
00:44:13,721 --> 00:44:17,401
Speaker 2: It powerful power. I've only need I only seen this

901
00:44:17,481 --> 00:44:21,241
Speaker 2: stuff in on TV. And as like, when I was

902
00:44:21,281 --> 00:44:23,401
Speaker 2: growing up, I was so naive to the world because

903
00:44:23,481 --> 00:44:26,521
Speaker 2: I didn't think anything happened outside the house because I

904
00:44:26,561 --> 00:44:29,161
Speaker 2: was never allowed out of the house. So when I

905
00:44:29,201 --> 00:44:32,801
Speaker 2: started seeing this, you're progressing so fast in the criminal

906
00:44:32,881 --> 00:44:37,361
Speaker 2: underworld that you become somebody, but really your nobody. Like

907
00:44:37,441 --> 00:44:40,361
Speaker 2: there's so there's there's so many levels of criminal and

908
00:44:40,481 --> 00:44:43,001
Speaker 2: in them levels you can be in that same So

909
00:44:43,161 --> 00:44:45,321
Speaker 2: me and you could be in the same level of criminal,

910
00:44:45,761 --> 00:44:51,361
Speaker 2: but your version of that criminal could be like your

911
00:44:51,481 --> 00:44:53,561
Speaker 2: nuts or you'll use a weapon, you'll shoot someone where

912
00:44:53,601 --> 00:44:55,481
Speaker 2: I would kill someone with my hands. You know. It

913
00:44:56,081 --> 00:44:58,121
Speaker 2: was kind of like that. So you can progress in

914
00:44:58,161 --> 00:45:01,761
Speaker 2: a group so much because you don't need to be hard.

915
00:45:01,841 --> 00:45:03,561
Speaker 2: You don't need to be a murderer, you don't need

916
00:45:03,601 --> 00:45:04,921
Speaker 2: to be a tall man, you don't need to be

917
00:45:04,921 --> 00:45:10,041
Speaker 2: a think if your game you're all the same, yeah,

918
00:45:10,121 --> 00:45:12,361
Speaker 2: do you know what I mean? Because if you had

919
00:45:12,361 --> 00:45:16,761
Speaker 2: a specific tool you fight in or your height, your stature,

920
00:45:16,921 --> 00:45:21,121
Speaker 2: your aggression, your your kindness, could talk to someone where

921
00:45:21,161 --> 00:45:23,681
Speaker 2: you couldn't get money off of like you would all

922
00:45:23,721 --> 00:45:29,321
Speaker 2: be that same value. You're just used a different way. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

923
00:45:29,441 --> 00:45:33,161
Speaker 2: And brother, I was used. I was used just as

924
00:45:33,241 --> 00:45:41,681
Speaker 2: much as you were used. And it hurts because but.

925
00:45:41,681 --> 00:45:46,241
Speaker 1: What would it what? In what way? Do you feel used?

926
00:45:46,281 --> 00:45:46,440
Speaker 3: Though?

927
00:45:47,161 --> 00:45:48,960
Speaker 1: Like you did you feel used in the way that

928
00:45:49,001 --> 00:45:51,201
Speaker 1: they've used your foot for your ability and for your

929
00:45:51,201 --> 00:45:53,441
Speaker 1: for your what you can do for them? Or do

930
00:45:53,521 --> 00:45:56,841
Speaker 1: you feel used because do you feel like it was

931
00:45:56,881 --> 00:45:58,441
Speaker 1: a waste of years?

932
00:45:58,841 --> 00:46:02,241
Speaker 2: One hundred percent. But at the same time, I can

933
00:46:02,241 --> 00:46:04,361
Speaker 2: say that it's a I can say it's a waste

934
00:46:04,401 --> 00:46:06,681
Speaker 2: of years, but it's curved me to be who I

935
00:46:06,681 --> 00:46:09,041
Speaker 2: am today. And I'm a great man today, do you

936
00:46:09,081 --> 00:46:10,681
Speaker 2: know what I mean? Like I'm a great I do

937
00:46:10,721 --> 00:46:14,641
Speaker 2: a lot today that that showed that that gives real

938
00:46:14,681 --> 00:46:18,001
Speaker 2: respect and strength to my community rather than take it away.

939
00:46:18,361 --> 00:46:20,481
Speaker 2: So it has curved me to be a better person.

940
00:46:20,601 --> 00:46:23,161
Speaker 2: And you know, without that, I probably wouldn't be who

941
00:46:23,201 --> 00:46:26,881
Speaker 2: I am today. So I can thank that as well

942
00:46:26,921 --> 00:46:29,081
Speaker 2: as I can still regret it. Do you know what

943
00:46:29,121 --> 00:46:29,440
Speaker 2: I mean?

944
00:46:30,041 --> 00:46:32,081
Speaker 1: You get but you get real Do you get respect

945
00:46:32,081 --> 00:46:36,321
Speaker 1: off the coppers now? For how how you are? They

946
00:46:36,361 --> 00:46:37,521
Speaker 1: totally different towards now?

947
00:46:38,321 --> 00:46:41,361
Speaker 2: Yeah, one hundred percent, Like don't get me wrong, there's

948
00:46:41,361 --> 00:46:43,161
Speaker 2: still some of them coppers that arrested it that would

949
00:46:43,161 --> 00:46:45,961
Speaker 2: see that I am not a changed person, you know,

950
00:46:46,121 --> 00:46:48,881
Speaker 2: And if say, for instance, someone calls the police from me,

951
00:46:49,321 --> 00:46:51,681
Speaker 2: it wouldn't just be one copper that turns up. There'll

952
00:46:51,681 --> 00:46:54,281
Speaker 2: be a lot, you know, and they'll still treat you out.

953
00:46:54,401 --> 00:46:57,921
Speaker 2: I'm that person. But since since my brother, I was

954
00:46:58,041 --> 00:47:03,161
Speaker 2: such After I lost my brother, I was so sure

955
00:47:03,441 --> 00:47:06,161
Speaker 2: that I was going to find these people that killed

956
00:47:06,201 --> 00:47:09,601
Speaker 2: him that the police knew that I was going to

957
00:47:09,681 --> 00:47:11,921
Speaker 2: kill these guys and it was a race between them

958
00:47:11,961 --> 00:47:16,321
Speaker 2: and me getting them first. I was such hard work

959
00:47:16,401 --> 00:47:19,841
Speaker 2: for the family liaison. Through every crime you get handed

960
00:47:19,881 --> 00:47:22,161
Speaker 2: a liaison officer. If you're a victim of crime, you

961
00:47:22,201 --> 00:47:25,001
Speaker 2: get given a liaison officer. That's an officer that is

962
00:47:25,041 --> 00:47:28,081
Speaker 2: there for you pretty much twenty four to seven. If

963
00:47:28,081 --> 00:47:30,761
Speaker 2: you need to talk, or you have any problems, or

964
00:47:30,801 --> 00:47:32,561
Speaker 2: you have any think that you want to talk to

965
00:47:32,641 --> 00:47:34,801
Speaker 2: the police about, the family liaisons are there for you.

966
00:47:36,161 --> 00:47:37,841
Speaker 2: I was such an issue. I went through four of

967
00:47:37,881 --> 00:47:41,641
Speaker 2: them and they left me. They said, I cannot deal

968
00:47:41,641 --> 00:47:45,361
Speaker 2: with this guy. He's time, unpredictable. I cannot scares me.

969
00:47:45,841 --> 00:47:48,441
Speaker 2: I cannot talk to this guy. And I was rejected

970
00:47:48,441 --> 00:47:51,521
Speaker 2: by them all. And I ended up coming across two

971
00:47:51,601 --> 00:47:55,321
Speaker 2: liaison officers that was that come on my level and

972
00:47:55,401 --> 00:47:59,521
Speaker 2: they were I see that they wanted to help and

973
00:47:59,561 --> 00:48:03,641
Speaker 2: they wasn't a problem. So I accepted them. And it's

974
00:48:03,761 --> 00:48:10,921
Speaker 2: Andy Moore and and oh my god, I've Miranda Miranda.

975
00:48:10,961 --> 00:48:13,480
Speaker 2: I don't know her last name, but these two they

976
00:48:13,521 --> 00:48:16,201
Speaker 2: were the perfect jing and yang for me at that time,

977
00:48:16,561 --> 00:48:18,441
Speaker 2: and they accepted me, and I accepted them to be

978
00:48:18,521 --> 00:48:21,081
Speaker 2: my liaison officers. But I went for them all. They

979
00:48:21,081 --> 00:48:23,241
Speaker 2: were scared. They didn't want me, They didn't want to

980
00:48:23,241 --> 00:48:25,041
Speaker 2: talk to me, they didn't want to handle me. They

981
00:48:25,081 --> 00:48:27,161
Speaker 2: didn't want to come anywhere near me. When I had

982
00:48:27,201 --> 00:48:28,641
Speaker 2: them in there, they wouldn't meet me in a room

983
00:48:28,721 --> 00:48:31,281
Speaker 2: because they felt like I wouldn't let them out because

984
00:48:31,321 --> 00:48:34,041
Speaker 2: they're not listening to what I'm saying. I put the

985
00:48:34,041 --> 00:48:38,721
Speaker 2: fear of God in them. So now after that, because

986
00:48:38,761 --> 00:48:42,081
Speaker 2: I was the hardest person that they'd ever managed within

987
00:48:43,081 --> 00:48:46,481
Speaker 2: the crime aspect, they've got me. I go into the

988
00:48:46,481 --> 00:48:48,921
Speaker 2: police station now and I train the aison officers on

989
00:48:49,001 --> 00:48:51,361
Speaker 2: how to manage people like me. It's a big turnarounds

990
00:48:51,761 --> 00:48:55,241
Speaker 2: it's a massive turnaround, and it's really rewarded for me

991
00:48:55,321 --> 00:48:57,681
Speaker 2: because I still get to keep my brother's legacy alive

992
00:48:57,841 --> 00:49:00,441
Speaker 2: doing things like this. And it's weird because I'm sitting

993
00:49:00,441 --> 00:49:03,601
Speaker 2: in there. I'm sitting in a classroom teaching police officers

994
00:49:03,681 --> 00:49:05,841
Speaker 2: how to manage it's criminals.

995
00:49:07,641 --> 00:49:11,561
Speaker 1: Let's because you've got into your brother. Now, let's let's

996
00:49:11,721 --> 00:49:13,881
Speaker 1: let's talk about the brother. But let's before we talk

997
00:49:13,921 --> 00:49:19,440
Speaker 1: about the situation, talk about your brother in let's let's

998
00:49:19,481 --> 00:49:24,281
Speaker 1: get an insight of your brother before the situation happened.

999
00:49:25,481 --> 00:49:29,561
Speaker 2: My brother had a different dad to me. He didn't

1000
00:49:29,561 --> 00:49:32,681
Speaker 2: know who his dad was. My mum was very quiet

1001
00:49:32,681 --> 00:49:35,081
Speaker 2: on who his dad was, so that that troubled him

1002
00:49:35,081 --> 00:49:39,761
Speaker 2: a lot. You could see that my brother wasn't a

1003
00:49:39,761 --> 00:49:42,960
Speaker 2: full brother because even though he was to me, but

1004
00:49:43,081 --> 00:49:44,721
Speaker 2: like genetically, you can tell he wasn't. He was a

1005
00:49:44,761 --> 00:49:47,281
Speaker 2: little bit mixed race. And I thought that we was

1006
00:49:47,361 --> 00:49:49,441
Speaker 2: led to believe that my dad was his dad, and

1007
00:49:49,481 --> 00:49:52,521
Speaker 2: my dad accepted that that it was his son. It

1008
00:49:52,521 --> 00:49:54,960
Speaker 2: went until we got older that I realized that he wasn't,

1009
00:49:54,961 --> 00:49:57,521
Speaker 2: and that's why my dad didn't like him. My dad

1010
00:49:57,601 --> 00:50:00,481
Speaker 2: used to punch him up and all sorts. Yeah again,

1011
00:50:00,521 --> 00:50:02,401
Speaker 2: I never saw it, but I just saw the aftermath

1012
00:50:02,441 --> 00:50:04,401
Speaker 2: of it. But rather really hated my dad for that,

1013
00:50:05,161 --> 00:50:08,761
Speaker 2: and really hated him for that and blamed him for

1014
00:50:08,801 --> 00:50:10,801
Speaker 2: a lot of a lot of the things. My brother

1015
00:50:10,881 --> 00:50:14,561
Speaker 2: ran away from home, he'd spent a fair bit of

1016
00:50:14,561 --> 00:50:17,361
Speaker 2: his time. I feel like my brother belonged to the street.

1017
00:50:17,721 --> 00:50:19,641
Speaker 2: He belonged. He belonged to the street because that was

1018
00:50:19,681 --> 00:50:24,561
Speaker 2: where he felt most most at home. I believe he

1019
00:50:24,641 --> 00:50:27,721
Speaker 2: was homeless in London for a choice of He ran away.

1020
00:50:28,921 --> 00:50:32,281
Speaker 2: He met his people, and he hung with the people.

1021
00:50:32,401 --> 00:50:35,761
Speaker 2: They sofa surfed and they raved, and he was a

1022
00:50:35,841 --> 00:50:38,761
Speaker 2: rave head and he just loved life. He was so

1023
00:50:38,961 --> 00:50:41,321
Speaker 2: good looking, like he was a real good looking fellow,

1024
00:50:41,361 --> 00:50:43,041
Speaker 2: do you know what I mean? All the girls loved him.

1025
00:50:43,281 --> 00:50:46,801
Speaker 2: He was a proper people person. Everybody loved him. He

1026
00:50:46,841 --> 00:50:50,681
Speaker 2: could dance, he could, you know, he could pull any bird,

1027
00:50:50,761 --> 00:50:53,801
Speaker 2: he could, you know. He was He played football, and

1028
00:50:53,881 --> 00:50:57,041
Speaker 2: he played football so good that he could have actually

1029
00:50:57,081 --> 00:50:59,561
Speaker 2: done something with it. And he was a kickboxer as well,

1030
00:50:59,601 --> 00:51:02,520
Speaker 2: and he was so good at kickboxing that he could

1031
00:51:02,521 --> 00:51:05,601
Speaker 2: have gone somewhere with that as well. But because life

1032
00:51:05,601 --> 00:51:08,281
Speaker 2: wasn't steady for him. He found more comfort in the

1033
00:51:08,281 --> 00:51:12,561
Speaker 2: street and instead of keeping that within the classroom mentality,

1034
00:51:13,081 --> 00:51:16,241
Speaker 2: he took it out to the street. And he was.

1035
00:51:19,161 --> 00:51:22,881
Speaker 2: But me and my brother were both very very handy. Yeah,

1036
00:51:22,961 --> 00:51:25,841
Speaker 2: we was very handy to know, and we was handy

1037
00:51:25,881 --> 00:51:28,081
Speaker 2: for anything. We was game, We was gain gain.

1038
00:51:28,481 --> 00:51:30,321
Speaker 1: It was he violent as you will.

1039
00:51:31,601 --> 00:51:32,921
Speaker 2: This is what I was just about to say. But

1040
00:51:32,961 --> 00:51:35,081
Speaker 2: we were two different people when it comes to violence.

1041
00:51:35,121 --> 00:51:38,001
Speaker 2: My brother could really have a fight. He could really

1042
00:51:38,081 --> 00:51:41,881
Speaker 2: really handle himself where he but he would go to

1043
00:51:41,961 --> 00:51:43,641
Speaker 2: a fight so you're on the floor and then back

1044
00:51:43,681 --> 00:51:46,681
Speaker 2: off me. I would continue. I would go past that

1045
00:51:46,721 --> 00:51:49,921
Speaker 2: next level. So where he was the calm and collective's

1046
00:51:50,361 --> 00:51:54,081
Speaker 2: handled fighter, he was a controlled fighter. I was the

1047
00:51:54,201 --> 00:51:57,281
Speaker 2: op total opposite spectrum. I was like, let's buck and

1048
00:51:57,361 --> 00:51:59,641
Speaker 2: let's pull them at pieces, you know, like and it

1049
00:51:59,681 --> 00:52:02,161
Speaker 2: was and if I come away from it, my head

1050
00:52:02,201 --> 00:52:04,721
Speaker 2: would be bad. And the doctors tell me it was

1051
00:52:04,761 --> 00:52:07,601
Speaker 2: must that made me feel like that way, because when

1052
00:52:07,601 --> 00:52:10,921
Speaker 2: I'd leave, I felt like I'd go over the scenarios

1053
00:52:10,961 --> 00:52:13,361
Speaker 2: in my head because I needed to go back and

1054
00:52:13,401 --> 00:52:15,601
Speaker 2: do what what I've got going on in my head.

1055
00:52:15,641 --> 00:52:19,041
Speaker 2: I wish I'd done more because I needed to show

1056
00:52:19,121 --> 00:52:21,441
Speaker 2: these people that I had to put them apart. You know.

1057
00:52:21,641 --> 00:52:24,721
Speaker 2: I wanted to you know, I really wanted to teach

1058
00:52:24,761 --> 00:52:26,761
Speaker 2: him a lesson where my brother the lesson would be,

1059
00:52:26,801 --> 00:52:28,281
Speaker 2: I'd smack you, fall on the floor, I pick you

1060
00:52:28,321 --> 00:52:31,601
Speaker 2: back up, shake hands and go. And I admired that

1061
00:52:31,681 --> 00:52:34,441
Speaker 2: with him, you know, and you knew where he was.

1062
00:52:34,481 --> 00:52:37,441
Speaker 2: With him, I was always the unpredictable brother, and he

1063
00:52:37,561 --> 00:52:40,201
Speaker 2: was always the like you knew where you stood with him,

1064
00:52:40,361 --> 00:52:45,521
Speaker 2: you know. So he was the like the gentleman, and

1065
00:52:45,641 --> 00:52:50,081
Speaker 2: he was a really loved person. And you know, anyone

1066
00:52:50,121 --> 00:52:53,161
Speaker 2: that he fought, he dominated, and you know, he was

1067
00:52:53,241 --> 00:52:55,881
Speaker 2: like the guy that was down the pub and like say,

1068
00:52:55,881 --> 00:52:58,321
Speaker 2: the girls loved him everything. And he had money because

1069
00:52:58,361 --> 00:53:00,601
Speaker 2: he was dealing. He was dealing pills and stuff at

1070
00:53:00,601 --> 00:53:02,961
Speaker 2: that time, you know, like the Mitsubishi turbos and all

1071
00:53:02,961 --> 00:53:05,721
Speaker 2: that and hash like he was, you know, cooking it

1072
00:53:05,721 --> 00:53:07,321
Speaker 2: in the microwave so he can cut it up, you know,

1073
00:53:07,441 --> 00:53:08,801
Speaker 2: like heat it up so he can cut it because

1074
00:53:08,801 --> 00:53:12,281
Speaker 2: it was too hard, you know. And he just always

1075
00:53:12,361 --> 00:53:15,081
Speaker 2: looked smart. He had He always used to wear shirts

1076
00:53:15,161 --> 00:53:17,161
Speaker 2: like you know, the Ben Sherman shirts or the Roulphaer

1077
00:53:17,241 --> 00:53:20,081
Speaker 2: ends shirts. Yeah, the jeans and the Rebot classics. Like

1078
00:53:20,161 --> 00:53:24,441
Speaker 2: it was always he was always just just clean. He

1079
00:53:24,481 --> 00:53:26,761
Speaker 2: was just he was just a geezer, you know. He

1080
00:53:26,881 --> 00:53:31,161
Speaker 2: was a man around town. And then he went to

1081
00:53:31,241 --> 00:53:37,961
Speaker 2: jail for driving without a license and an abh. He

1082
00:53:38,001 --> 00:53:40,081
Speaker 2: went at Jaw and whilst he was in Jaw he's

1083
00:53:40,121 --> 00:53:44,521
Speaker 2: missus left in and because I said to him when

1084
00:53:44,521 --> 00:53:46,921
Speaker 2: it was the first time you've done that hard drug

1085
00:53:47,081 --> 00:53:49,641
Speaker 2: like crack, you know, and his cellmate, he had a

1086
00:53:49,681 --> 00:53:51,401
Speaker 2: cell mate, and his cell mate gave it to him.

1087
00:53:51,401 --> 00:53:53,241
Speaker 2: He said, listen, mate, this will help you tonight. My

1088
00:53:53,281 --> 00:53:55,761
Speaker 2: brother was upset and he said, my brother said to

1089
00:53:55,801 --> 00:53:57,241
Speaker 2: me that he goes. I was quiet. I was, I

1090
00:53:57,281 --> 00:53:59,121
Speaker 2: was a mess and he gave me this and said

1091
00:53:59,121 --> 00:54:01,361
Speaker 2: I forget it. So I just wanted to forget. And

1092
00:54:01,401 --> 00:54:03,041
Speaker 2: he said he'd done his first hit whilst he was

1093
00:54:03,081 --> 00:54:05,161
Speaker 2: in prison, and he never looked back from there. He

1094
00:54:05,161 --> 00:54:06,801
Speaker 2: spent the rest of his time trying to chase that

1095
00:54:07,201 --> 00:54:11,201
Speaker 2: first high again. And that's you know, that's that's that

1096
00:54:11,321 --> 00:54:13,841
Speaker 2: was his downfall. You know, to find that you get

1097
00:54:13,841 --> 00:54:16,960
Speaker 2: a habit, especially one as aggressive as what he had.

1098
00:54:17,161 --> 00:54:18,161
Speaker 2: It started in prison.

1099
00:54:18,761 --> 00:54:23,001
Speaker 1: Tell me about the night that happened.

1100
00:54:23,441 --> 00:54:27,601
Speaker 2: Were your brother in twenty seventeen, Were you with him now?

1101
00:54:27,641 --> 00:54:30,601
Speaker 2: I wish I was. I wish I was. I'd take

1102
00:54:30,641 --> 00:54:32,921
Speaker 2: his place any day.

1103
00:54:35,161 --> 00:54:37,801
Speaker 1: So to tell me what talk me through it well,

1104
00:54:37,881 --> 00:54:40,281
Speaker 1: but like from what you know and what you you

1105
00:54:40,321 --> 00:54:41,761
Speaker 1: know what happened that line?

1106
00:54:41,921 --> 00:54:46,361
Speaker 2: So I was. I was at work. A friend of mine.

1107
00:54:46,361 --> 00:54:48,081
Speaker 2: He always gets me on this because he says that

1108
00:54:48,121 --> 00:54:50,161
Speaker 2: he never said it, but I know he did. He's

1109
00:54:50,201 --> 00:54:54,041
Speaker 2: here now, actually, and he he had he was happing,

1110
00:54:54,081 --> 00:54:55,761
Speaker 2: my friend was having, my best mate was having. He

1111
00:54:55,801 --> 00:55:01,641
Speaker 2: was having a bad day, and he he said, he

1112
00:55:01,721 --> 00:55:03,881
Speaker 2: got on the bus and he gets on the bus

1113
00:55:03,881 --> 00:55:07,521
Speaker 2: home the route where this happen happened, and he was like,

1114
00:55:07,721 --> 00:55:09,881
Speaker 2: I was, I had to wait this song for the bus.

1115
00:55:09,401 --> 00:55:13,721
Speaker 2: And he'd done a video where the bridge was all

1116
00:55:13,721 --> 00:55:16,441
Speaker 2: cornered off and the bus had to go around the

1117
00:55:16,441 --> 00:55:19,281
Speaker 2: long way. And he sent me this picture and he

1118
00:55:19,321 --> 00:55:24,121
Speaker 2: said he goes like he swore, and I said, it's

1119
00:55:24,161 --> 00:55:28,761
Speaker 2: probably another crackhead. And he'd gone home and he had

1120
00:55:28,761 --> 00:55:30,961
Speaker 2: to go the long way home, and I was like, cool,

1121
00:55:31,041 --> 00:55:34,881
Speaker 2: what's going on there? And I didn't think nothing of it,

1122
00:55:34,921 --> 00:55:37,161
Speaker 2: but at the time when it happened, I was tattoing

1123
00:55:37,161 --> 00:55:42,801
Speaker 2: a girl who I know in my studio, and at

1124
00:55:42,841 --> 00:55:44,761
Speaker 2: the time that it happened, I got a real bad

1125
00:55:44,801 --> 00:55:48,201
Speaker 2: shooting paint. Yeah, and I broke out in a sweat,

1126
00:55:49,001 --> 00:55:50,641
Speaker 2: and I didn't think nothing of it. I thought I

1127
00:55:50,681 --> 00:55:52,881
Speaker 2: was having sort of like sugar drop or something. Yeah,

1128
00:55:53,001 --> 00:55:55,081
Speaker 2: and she's like, do you want a minute? And I'm sweating.

1129
00:55:55,361 --> 00:55:58,401
Speaker 2: I've come over like weed. Yeah. I didn't know what happened.

1130
00:55:58,681 --> 00:56:00,440
Speaker 2: It turned out at the time that i'd come over

1131
00:56:00,481 --> 00:56:05,241
Speaker 2: weed was the time that my brother got stabbed. It's like,

1132
00:56:05,361 --> 00:56:07,721
Speaker 2: I cannot explain it, and just I just felt it.

1133
00:56:07,841 --> 00:56:12,361
Speaker 2: I felt like I felt him get stabbed, and so

1134
00:56:12,401 --> 00:56:16,281
Speaker 2: he's gone home and I finished work that day. We

1135
00:56:16,321 --> 00:56:18,561
Speaker 2: didn't I didn't hear nothing more about the incident. I

1136
00:56:18,641 --> 00:56:21,000
Speaker 2: finished work that day. It has all been cornered off.

1137
00:56:21,481 --> 00:56:24,201
Speaker 2: I've gone to my ex's house to pick up my

1138
00:56:24,281 --> 00:56:27,201
Speaker 2: daughter because it was it was it was my daughter's night,

1139
00:56:27,241 --> 00:56:31,241
Speaker 2: so I got there. I dropped my daughter off. At

1140
00:56:31,281 --> 00:56:34,841
Speaker 2: ten o'clock. I'm in the petrol station getting some petrol

1141
00:56:35,001 --> 00:56:37,841
Speaker 2: to go back home, and I get a phone call

1142
00:56:37,881 --> 00:56:41,000
Speaker 2: from my mum and I'm in that I'm just about

1143
00:56:41,041 --> 00:56:43,721
Speaker 2: to pay for the petrol and my mom's screaming down

1144
00:56:43,761 --> 00:56:46,481
Speaker 2: the phone, noise I've never heard, and I can't get

1145
00:56:46,481 --> 00:56:48,481
Speaker 2: it out of my head. She's like, they've got him,

1146
00:56:48,481 --> 00:56:50,921
Speaker 2: they've got him. And I said got what? And I

1147
00:56:50,961 --> 00:56:53,241
Speaker 2: said they've got him, They've got him. And I'm like what.

1148
00:56:53,561 --> 00:56:56,121
Speaker 2: She's screaming, crying. I'm like, you need to calm down.

1149
00:56:56,121 --> 00:56:58,921
Speaker 2: What's going on. Dean's dead? And I was like what.

1150
00:56:59,281 --> 00:57:00,881
Speaker 2: She went. I said, what do you mean? I said,

1151
00:57:00,881 --> 00:57:03,041
Speaker 2: are you sure it's him? She's like, he's dead, he's dead.

1152
00:57:03,321 --> 00:57:06,001
Speaker 2: I said, Mom, he's probably not, like he's not. Yeah,

1153
00:57:06,081 --> 00:57:07,881
Speaker 2: she goes, he years. I said, how do you know

1154
00:57:07,921 --> 00:57:12,041
Speaker 2: it's him? She said, the police are here, and she's screaming.

1155
00:57:12,081 --> 00:57:13,921
Speaker 2: She's like, she's shouting at the coppers, get out of

1156
00:57:13,961 --> 00:57:18,401
Speaker 2: my fucking house. Sorry, if you're not allowed to. She's like,

1157
00:57:18,881 --> 00:57:20,841
Speaker 2: she's like, get out of my fucking house. And so

1158
00:57:21,921 --> 00:57:24,601
Speaker 2: she's shouting. I said, right, hold on, hold on, I'm coming,

1159
00:57:24,641 --> 00:57:26,321
Speaker 2: I'm coming, yeah, and I was. I was about to

1160
00:57:26,361 --> 00:57:27,881
Speaker 2: run out of the petrol station, but I knew that

1161
00:57:27,921 --> 00:57:30,201
Speaker 2: I had to pay. I've paid. The geezers looking at

1162
00:57:30,201 --> 00:57:32,001
Speaker 2: me like get off the phone. I'm like, you better

1163
00:57:32,041 --> 00:57:34,361
Speaker 2: fuck you know what I mean, get off the phone, like,

1164
00:57:34,481 --> 00:57:36,841
Speaker 2: I don't you know. So I'm going to kick off

1165
00:57:36,881 --> 00:57:41,161
Speaker 2: with this geezer, but my head's like, I'm I'm dizzy, mate,

1166
00:57:41,201 --> 00:57:43,281
Speaker 2: Like I'm all over. I just found out my brother's

1167
00:57:43,281 --> 00:57:46,121
Speaker 2: been stabbed. I know what I've got to do now. Yeah,

1168
00:57:46,241 --> 00:57:47,961
Speaker 2: but I've got to get to my mum to just

1169
00:57:48,041 --> 00:57:51,081
Speaker 2: make sure that this is true. As I've left the

1170
00:57:51,121 --> 00:57:53,841
Speaker 2: petrol station, I've wrung my missus up. I told her

1171
00:57:53,921 --> 00:57:56,721
Speaker 2: I've rung I've wrung Jamie up, my mate, And I

1172
00:57:56,801 --> 00:57:58,081
Speaker 2: said to him, do you know that down the bus

1173
00:57:58,121 --> 00:58:00,041
Speaker 2: flop earlier on? I said that was Dean. Dean's dead,

1174
00:58:00,041 --> 00:58:03,241
Speaker 2: he's been stabbed. He's like what I was like, yeah, So,

1175
00:58:03,681 --> 00:58:05,081
Speaker 2: but I don't know what I'm doing. I don't I

1176
00:58:05,081 --> 00:58:06,201
Speaker 2: want to make these calls, but I'm making it. I

1177
00:58:06,241 --> 00:58:09,481
Speaker 2: don't know what's happening. I'm making calls when I need

1178
00:58:09,521 --> 00:58:13,241
Speaker 2: to get and I'm driving and I'm heading down the motorways.

1179
00:58:13,321 --> 00:58:15,121
Speaker 2: So from where I am to where my mum is

1180
00:58:15,161 --> 00:58:18,121
Speaker 2: about ten minute drive, ten to fifty minute drive. And

1181
00:58:18,161 --> 00:58:20,521
Speaker 2: as I'm driving, I'm driving down this long road heading

1182
00:58:20,561 --> 00:58:25,481
Speaker 2: towards the Mertorway and I'm just screaming. I'm screaming. I've

1183
00:58:25,481 --> 00:58:27,481
Speaker 2: got the steering wheel, I'm gripping hold of it, like

1184
00:58:27,801 --> 00:58:30,121
Speaker 2: I'm trying to snap the steering wheel off whilst I'm driving.

1185
00:58:30,281 --> 00:58:33,761
Speaker 2: I'm screaming from the pit of the stomach. Yeah, like

1186
00:58:34,521 --> 00:58:37,401
Speaker 2: just screaming. I get lightheaded and I think I'm going

1187
00:58:37,481 --> 00:58:42,321
Speaker 2: to pass out. Yeah, And I needed that scream to

1188
00:58:42,361 --> 00:58:45,041
Speaker 2: be able to just level myself out. Yeah, because You've

1189
00:58:45,041 --> 00:58:49,321
Speaker 2: got to remember, I'm dealing with emotions that I'm not

1190
00:58:49,361 --> 00:58:54,441
Speaker 2: being able to handle because I don't cry. And it's

1191
00:58:54,481 --> 00:58:56,801
Speaker 2: not that I don't cry, it's just that I can't

1192
00:58:56,881 --> 00:58:58,921
Speaker 2: really cry, do you know what I mean? But I

1193
00:58:59,001 --> 00:59:03,641
Speaker 2: want to, so I scream, but I'm I'm skipped too,

1194
00:59:03,681 --> 00:59:07,441
Speaker 2: So I'm I'm going for through many different scenarios in

1195
00:59:07,441 --> 00:59:08,961
Speaker 2: my head of what I need to do, but I'm

1196
00:59:08,961 --> 00:59:13,441
Speaker 2: still unsure whether it's true. So I drive to my mum's.

1197
00:59:13,561 --> 00:59:16,961
Speaker 2: I get there, there's no police cars outside, there's nothing.

1198
00:59:17,321 --> 00:59:20,721
Speaker 2: So I'm like, is this my head playing games with me?

1199
00:59:20,761 --> 00:59:25,161
Speaker 2: It was like, is my skits playing up? Yeah? And

1200
00:59:25,201 --> 00:59:26,721
Speaker 2: I'll go into the house. And as I get into

1201
00:59:26,761 --> 00:59:28,121
Speaker 2: the house, I can I see it, I can hear

1202
00:59:28,161 --> 00:59:31,321
Speaker 2: the screaming, houses being smashed to pieces, like my mom

1203
00:59:31,401 --> 00:59:33,961
Speaker 2: has gone to town. She's smashed up her whole house.

1204
00:59:34,401 --> 00:59:36,601
Speaker 2: There's two coppers standing in there, a man and a woman,

1205
00:59:36,721 --> 00:59:39,361
Speaker 2: and they are looking scared. They're like standing there because

1206
00:59:39,481 --> 00:59:41,641
Speaker 2: they're waiting for me to turn up. Well, one of

1207
00:59:41,681 --> 00:59:43,641
Speaker 2: the coppers that was there is a lady called Pauline.

1208
00:59:43,681 --> 00:59:45,441
Speaker 2: She's a lovely woman. Her and her husband used to

1209
00:59:45,521 --> 00:59:47,641
Speaker 2: nick me and my brother all the time, so they

1210
00:59:47,681 --> 00:59:52,321
Speaker 2: already know yet that what we are. Like, yeah, and

1211
00:59:52,361 --> 00:59:55,761
Speaker 2: I've gone in there and they've just they've sit, but

1212
00:59:55,801 --> 00:59:58,441
Speaker 2: they've got fear the fit. I can see they were scared. Yeah,

1213
00:59:58,521 --> 01:00:01,761
Speaker 2: and I've turned up and I've gone, where's my mum?

1214
01:00:02,281 --> 01:00:04,201
Speaker 2: They go, she's in there, but I already know where

1215
01:00:04,201 --> 01:00:07,081
Speaker 2: she is because I can hear were screaming. Yeah, And

1216
01:00:07,121 --> 01:00:10,281
Speaker 2: I said, is it true? And they're looking at me

1217
01:00:10,321 --> 01:00:12,281
Speaker 2: and they just didn't They didn't open they didn't open

1218
01:00:12,281 --> 01:00:15,281
Speaker 2: their mouth. They just nodded. They was like, I said,

1219
01:00:15,361 --> 01:00:18,121
Speaker 2: how do you know? And then he didn't want to

1220
01:00:18,161 --> 01:00:20,241
Speaker 2: say nothing. I think she told him don't say nothing

1221
01:00:20,281 --> 01:00:24,361
Speaker 2: because he would attack you. And she she said, paul

1222
01:00:25,121 --> 01:00:27,081
Speaker 2: I've known you and your brother for a long time.

1223
01:00:28,481 --> 01:00:31,121
Speaker 2: It's definitely your brother. I went, how did it happen?

1224
01:00:32,121 --> 01:00:35,041
Speaker 2: She went, he's been stabbed. I said, have you got

1225
01:00:35,041 --> 01:00:39,001
Speaker 2: who it is yet? She said not yet. I said,

1226
01:00:39,041 --> 01:00:44,121
Speaker 2: I'll have them by tomorrow. And I said, Mom, I said,

1227
01:00:44,841 --> 01:00:48,321
Speaker 2: I'm going. She come down. My mom said, looked me

1228
01:00:48,361 --> 01:00:58,001
Speaker 2: in the eyes and she said, kill them. And my

1229
01:00:58,081 --> 01:01:02,361
Speaker 2: sisters come out and they said make sure you get them.

1230
01:01:02,561 --> 01:01:05,841
Speaker 2: And I knew that what I had to do. So

1231
01:01:06,921 --> 01:01:09,561
Speaker 2: I left the house and I went on a seven

1232
01:01:09,641 --> 01:01:18,641
Speaker 2: day man hunt to find these people. And as much

1233
01:01:18,681 --> 01:01:21,201
Speaker 2: as I was on the street and as much as

1234
01:01:21,201 --> 01:01:23,081
Speaker 2: I had people around me that was game and they

1235
01:01:23,121 --> 01:01:30,321
Speaker 2: were able, there was nothing. There was nobody. I was

1236
01:01:30,321 --> 01:01:32,921
Speaker 2: on my own, I was on my ones. There was

1237
01:01:33,001 --> 01:01:35,681
Speaker 2: nobody for every bad man that I had around me,

1238
01:01:35,801 --> 01:01:38,801
Speaker 2: for every person that claimed that they were a somebody

1239
01:01:38,881 --> 01:01:41,601
Speaker 2: that they'd have my back no matter what. When you

1240
01:01:42,041 --> 01:01:45,841
Speaker 2: when you ask people to come and find four people

1241
01:01:45,921 --> 01:01:49,241
Speaker 2: to kill them, there is nobody made because they're not

1242
01:01:49,281 --> 01:01:50,761
Speaker 2: looking for someone that's in a pub that you can

1243
01:01:50,801 --> 01:01:53,441
Speaker 2: smack and they won't smack you back because they'll pussy

1244
01:01:53,521 --> 01:01:57,401
Speaker 2: or whatever. Like. These people are killers and they've killed

1245
01:01:57,441 --> 01:02:01,081
Speaker 2: someone that can have it, you know. So the fear

1246
01:02:01,121 --> 01:02:02,561
Speaker 2: is there for a lot of people and no one

1247
01:02:02,601 --> 01:02:04,361
Speaker 2: coming with me. I'm on my own. I've gone looking

1248
01:02:04,401 --> 01:02:06,081
Speaker 2: for these people, and I was on a seventh that

1249
01:02:06,161 --> 01:02:08,481
Speaker 2: I didn't sleep, seven days, I didn't eat. I literally

1250
01:02:08,601 --> 01:02:15,281
Speaker 2: hunted these people, and one of them by the morning

1251
01:02:15,321 --> 01:02:17,481
Speaker 2: I found out who they were. By seven o'clock in

1252
01:02:17,521 --> 01:02:19,481
Speaker 2: the morning, I found out who they were, so I

1253
01:02:19,561 --> 01:02:21,481
Speaker 2: knew where I had to go. I went through every crack.

1254
01:02:21,561 --> 01:02:24,681
Speaker 2: Then I went through every I went for the drug

1255
01:02:24,761 --> 01:02:28,561
Speaker 2: line that was attached to this. I went after all

1256
01:02:28,561 --> 01:02:32,641
Speaker 2: of this, their shotters. I went after everybody that sold

1257
01:02:32,801 --> 01:02:38,481
Speaker 2: crack that was around that line, the county line. I

1258
01:02:38,641 --> 01:02:40,841
Speaker 2: targeted everybody, and there was no one that I didn't

1259
01:02:40,841 --> 01:02:46,361
Speaker 2: turn over. And you know I didn't. I didn't, I

1260
01:02:46,401 --> 01:02:48,761
Speaker 2: didn't take I didn't. I wasn't there to rob them.

1261
01:02:48,801 --> 01:02:50,721
Speaker 2: I wasn't there for nothing that. I was there for information.

1262
01:02:50,841 --> 01:02:51,601
Speaker 2: That's all I wanted.

1263
01:02:52,241 --> 01:02:53,881
Speaker 1: What was that? What was that? What was the reason

1264
01:02:53,881 --> 01:02:55,001
Speaker 1: why they stabbed your brother?

1265
01:02:56,961 --> 01:03:00,801
Speaker 2: So in court and it was proven they said that

1266
01:03:00,841 --> 01:03:04,601
Speaker 2: my brother was there to rob him. Yeah, but a

1267
01:03:04,681 --> 01:03:08,561
Speaker 2: guy there's a guy in where my mum and lives

1268
01:03:08,561 --> 01:03:10,521
Speaker 2: in Felix, though that my brother used to get stuff

1269
01:03:10,521 --> 01:03:14,561
Speaker 2: from all time, and he'd been turned over by the

1270
01:03:14,561 --> 01:03:16,241
Speaker 2: police and had all these stuff took off of him,

1271
01:03:16,761 --> 01:03:19,401
Speaker 2: so there was nothing my brother couldn't get it from him.

1272
01:03:19,401 --> 01:03:21,721
Speaker 2: So my brother had to go to another line to

1273
01:03:21,801 --> 01:03:23,441
Speaker 2: go and get So he was a new face to

1274
01:03:23,481 --> 01:03:27,721
Speaker 2: a new line. And there's two rival gangs in this town.

1275
01:03:28,041 --> 01:03:34,801
Speaker 2: There's J Block and Nino Yeah, and the gang J

1276
01:03:35,001 --> 01:03:40,481
Speaker 2: Block robbed this drug line twice and they fought. They

1277
01:03:40,521 --> 01:03:42,361
Speaker 2: had a heads up that they were coming back to

1278
01:03:42,441 --> 01:03:47,041
Speaker 2: rob him again that day. So because my brother was

1279
01:03:47,081 --> 01:03:49,841
Speaker 2: a new face, they thought that he was the decoy

1280
01:03:50,081 --> 01:03:54,041
Speaker 2: for the gang to rob him. So they come out

1281
01:03:54,081 --> 01:03:56,321
Speaker 2: to teach the gang a lesson, and it wasn't. It

1282
01:03:56,361 --> 01:03:59,521
Speaker 2: was my brother and my brother got in a fight

1283
01:03:59,561 --> 01:04:03,161
Speaker 2: with the four three guys and there was one guy

1284
01:04:03,201 --> 01:04:06,081
Speaker 2: on the phone and three guys on foot, and the

1285
01:04:06,121 --> 01:04:08,161
Speaker 2: guy on the phone was telling them what to do,

1286
01:04:08,881 --> 01:04:11,241
Speaker 2: and my brother had a fight with the three guys

1287
01:04:12,361 --> 01:04:14,961
Speaker 2: and they were on the road on the path on

1288
01:04:15,041 --> 01:04:20,321
Speaker 2: the road like zig zagging across the road, and from

1289
01:04:20,481 --> 01:04:24,441
Speaker 2: what was told by witnesses, my brother was winning the fight,

1290
01:04:25,281 --> 01:04:29,721
Speaker 2: but he was backing off, jumping forward striking, backing off,

1291
01:04:29,801 --> 01:04:32,521
Speaker 2: jumping forward, and that's how he was doing it because,

1292
01:04:32,601 --> 01:04:34,681
Speaker 2: like I say, my brother could actually have a rally.

1293
01:04:35,041 --> 01:04:37,881
Speaker 2: He was a really good fighter. He tripped on the

1294
01:04:37,921 --> 01:04:40,961
Speaker 2: curb and went down, and when he went down, one

1295
01:04:41,001 --> 01:04:42,961
Speaker 2: of the people come through the middle of him stabbed

1296
01:04:43,001 --> 01:04:44,241
Speaker 2: him whist he was on the floor, and then they

1297
01:04:44,241 --> 01:04:50,281
Speaker 2: all ran off. My brother got up, went to walk off.

1298
01:04:50,681 --> 01:04:53,161
Speaker 2: There was a guy who was a witness there in

1299
01:04:53,281 --> 01:04:55,681
Speaker 2: court wound down the window and said, you're right mate.

1300
01:04:55,761 --> 01:04:57,881
Speaker 2: My brother stuck his thumb up like he always does.

1301
01:04:58,761 --> 01:05:01,401
Speaker 2: Yeah good, and then he went down to the floor

1302
01:05:01,401 --> 01:05:06,001
Speaker 2: and it died. That's me.

1303
01:05:07,121 --> 01:05:14,521
Speaker 1: Yeah, what So what happened? Did you find them or

1304
01:05:14,521 --> 01:05:15,681
Speaker 1: did the cops find them first?

1305
01:05:16,441 --> 01:05:23,601
Speaker 2: So one of them was found and he ended up

1306
01:05:23,881 --> 01:05:30,841
Speaker 2: getting stabbed twice with his own knife. I'm not sure

1307
01:05:30,921 --> 01:05:36,841
Speaker 2: who did that, but because the person was never found,

1308
01:05:38,441 --> 01:05:44,881
Speaker 2: who did that to him? But he survived, and he survived,

1309
01:05:44,681 --> 01:05:46,801
Speaker 2: and you know what, you woudn't even believe it. Maybe

1310
01:05:46,881 --> 01:05:48,401
Speaker 2: he looked at him, you woudn't even think, how the

1311
01:05:48,441 --> 01:05:50,521
Speaker 2: hell did you survive? Because he was just a bone

1312
01:05:50,561 --> 01:05:52,841
Speaker 2: of a man, you know, he was like an old

1313
01:05:52,961 --> 01:05:57,281
Speaker 2: bone of a man. But I found out that he'd

1314
01:05:57,321 --> 01:06:00,841
Speaker 2: been stabbed and that he'd been took to the hospital,

1315
01:06:00,841 --> 01:06:02,441
Speaker 2: and I went up. I went to the hospital to

1316
01:06:03,121 --> 01:06:07,561
Speaker 2: finish a job that somebody else said, who they never

1317
01:06:07,641 --> 01:06:13,281
Speaker 2: found did in the first place. So I went up

1318
01:06:13,281 --> 01:06:15,321
Speaker 2: to the hospital to finish the job and there was

1319
01:06:15,361 --> 01:06:19,081
Speaker 2: police everywhere. Mate, like they'd send me up there. They

1320
01:06:19,201 --> 01:06:21,201
Speaker 2: rushed me out of the hospital. They said, what are

1321
01:06:21,201 --> 01:06:22,961
Speaker 2: you doing up here? I said, oh, come up to

1322
01:06:23,001 --> 01:06:25,441
Speaker 2: pick my friend up from the hospital. And they said,

1323
01:06:25,801 --> 01:06:28,161
Speaker 2: you've come up to pick your friend And I knew

1324
01:06:28,161 --> 01:06:30,561
Speaker 2: he was in a room there and I've gone to

1325
01:06:30,601 --> 01:06:33,721
Speaker 2: go into the room and they was like the police

1326
01:06:33,721 --> 01:06:36,121
Speaker 2: were there. They rushed me out of the room. They said,

1327
01:06:36,401 --> 01:06:37,921
Speaker 2: what are you doing here? I said, I've come to

1328
01:06:37,921 --> 01:06:39,761
Speaker 2: pick up my friend. And I said, is this not

1329
01:06:39,801 --> 01:06:41,601
Speaker 2: the staff room? They went, you know, this is not

1330
01:06:41,641 --> 01:06:44,001
Speaker 2: the staff room. And I was like, I said, who

1331
01:06:44,001 --> 01:06:46,921
Speaker 2: have you come to pick up? Honestly, I think my

1332
01:06:46,961 --> 01:06:50,601
Speaker 2: brother goes to us. A guy come walking down and goes, right, Paul,

1333
01:06:50,681 --> 01:06:52,281
Speaker 2: you're right, I said, this is who I've come to

1334
01:06:52,281 --> 01:06:54,281
Speaker 2: pick up, haven't I come to pick you up? And

1335
01:06:54,321 --> 01:06:57,161
Speaker 2: I'm looking at him thinking, please just say yes, and

1336
01:06:57,201 --> 01:06:59,561
Speaker 2: he said yeah, and I said come and then let's go.

1337
01:07:00,041 --> 01:07:02,601
Speaker 2: And they were like, make sure you leave the ground.

1338
01:07:02,601 --> 01:07:04,161
Speaker 2: So I was like, of course, I'm leaving the grounds.

1339
01:07:04,161 --> 01:07:06,721
Speaker 2: I'm taking him home. And I took him and he said, Paul,

1340
01:07:06,721 --> 01:07:08,401
Speaker 2: I'm at work. You can't take me. And I was like,

1341
01:07:08,441 --> 01:07:11,401
Speaker 2: you're coming with me. So I kidnapped this geezer. I

1342
01:07:11,441 --> 01:07:15,201
Speaker 2: didn't kidnap him. I took him with me. Yeah, I've

1343
01:07:15,201 --> 01:07:17,081
Speaker 2: took him with me. He's come with me off his

1344
01:07:17,121 --> 01:07:19,321
Speaker 2: own free wheel. He's got in the car. We've gone

1345
01:07:19,361 --> 01:07:21,401
Speaker 2: around the back of the hospital. I've dropped him off

1346
01:07:21,401 --> 01:07:22,801
Speaker 2: at the back of the hospital and he's gone back

1347
01:07:22,801 --> 01:07:25,121
Speaker 2: to work and I've gone off. You know, but I

1348
01:07:25,161 --> 01:07:27,481
Speaker 2: really wanted him. I really wanted him. I'd gone up

1349
01:07:27,521 --> 01:07:30,201
Speaker 2: to sleep his throat mate, and I would have done

1350
01:07:30,201 --> 01:07:30,601
Speaker 2: as well.

1351
01:07:31,761 --> 01:07:35,121
Speaker 1: But so that's what they don't get. They got life. Yeah.

1352
01:07:35,201 --> 01:07:38,161
Speaker 2: Yeah, So they got him, and then they're the three

1353
01:07:38,201 --> 01:07:40,921
Speaker 2: others in tow. They ended up coming in. So I

1354
01:07:40,921 --> 01:07:43,721
Speaker 2: guess one said the other one, and you know, you know,

1355
01:07:43,961 --> 01:07:46,041
Speaker 2: we're the street of the code is not not there

1356
01:07:46,041 --> 01:07:48,121
Speaker 2: when you're looking at a lot of until murder, I guess.

1357
01:07:48,361 --> 01:07:50,801
Speaker 2: So they all grass each other up and they ended

1358
01:07:50,841 --> 01:07:52,361
Speaker 2: up getting caught, all four of them, and I never

1359
01:07:52,361 --> 01:07:54,241
Speaker 2: got a chance to get And there was another one.

1360
01:07:54,481 --> 01:07:56,841
Speaker 2: There was two people from my town. There was two

1361
01:07:56,841 --> 01:07:59,161
Speaker 2: people from London. The two people from London went back

1362
01:07:59,201 --> 01:08:03,521
Speaker 2: to London. The two people from my town I hunted them.

1363
01:08:03,561 --> 01:08:06,441
Speaker 2: The second person after that was a guy who was

1364
01:08:06,441 --> 01:08:09,121
Speaker 2: on the phone saying the orders from the guy from

1365
01:08:09,121 --> 01:08:12,481
Speaker 2: London to the others to do what they got to do.

1366
01:08:13,161 --> 01:08:15,321
Speaker 2: And I got his address. I went to his house.

1367
01:08:15,601 --> 01:08:17,720
Speaker 2: I tried kicking the door and it ain't coming off.

1368
01:08:17,760 --> 01:08:19,521
Speaker 2: He lived in a flat upstairs. There was a driveway

1369
01:08:19,521 --> 01:08:22,041
Speaker 2: downstairs with a white van, and there were tinted windows.

1370
01:08:22,561 --> 01:08:25,041
Speaker 2: The geezer knew I was coming, and he knew that

1371
01:08:25,081 --> 01:08:27,081
Speaker 2: I was hunting them, and he had nowhere to go,

1372
01:08:27,241 --> 01:08:29,361
Speaker 2: and he ended up moving from his flat into his

1373
01:08:29,441 --> 01:08:32,041
Speaker 2: van that was on the driveway, and I was standing

1374
01:08:32,041 --> 01:08:35,241
Speaker 2: on the driveway looking in the tinted windows. So what

1375
01:08:35,281 --> 01:08:37,041
Speaker 2: I've done is I turned my back to the street,

1376
01:08:37,441 --> 01:08:39,561
Speaker 2: so it allowed them to come out of the house

1377
01:08:39,601 --> 01:08:41,840
Speaker 2: to get me from behind, but I was still seeing

1378
01:08:41,841 --> 01:08:44,321
Speaker 2: what was behind me. So I used the windows. But

1379
01:08:44,361 --> 01:08:46,161
Speaker 2: little did I know whilst I'm on the phone going.

1380
01:08:46,241 --> 01:08:48,161
Speaker 2: You fucking told me that he was going to be here.

1381
01:08:48,281 --> 01:08:50,081
Speaker 2: I'm here, Where is he? And they go, poor, I

1382
01:08:50,121 --> 01:08:51,921
Speaker 2: swear to you, he's there. He's there. He hasn't left

1383
01:08:51,921 --> 01:08:54,681
Speaker 2: the house. Yeah, he was on the other side of

1384
01:08:54,761 --> 01:08:58,361
Speaker 2: the window. He was in the van. He moved into

1385
01:08:58,401 --> 01:09:01,761
Speaker 2: the van. He was literally in front of me. And

1386
01:09:01,841 --> 01:09:05,761
Speaker 2: I didn't know that until we were in court. Fucking now,

1387
01:09:06,241 --> 01:09:08,161
Speaker 2: I didn't know until we were in court. If I

1388
01:09:08,161 --> 01:09:09,401
Speaker 2: had known it, I would have got in the van.

1389
01:09:09,521 --> 01:09:10,961
Speaker 2: He would have been I would have been able to

1390
01:09:11,001 --> 01:09:15,241
Speaker 2: I would have ruined him. But you know, I'm not

1391
01:09:15,281 --> 01:09:18,641
Speaker 2: a murderer. I'm not an ard man. I'm not a psycho.

1392
01:09:19,001 --> 01:09:22,241
Speaker 2: I'm just a guy that had a family member that

1393
01:09:22,361 --> 01:09:24,601
Speaker 2: was killed, and I would have done anything to make

1394
01:09:24,641 --> 01:09:26,881
Speaker 2: it right. Do you know what I mean? You know,

1395
01:09:27,361 --> 01:09:29,881
Speaker 2: and any but anybody that loses a sibling would have

1396
01:09:29,881 --> 01:09:31,321
Speaker 2: done the same thing. You don't have to be ard

1397
01:09:31,401 --> 01:09:32,801
Speaker 2: to do what I was. I went off to do

1398
01:09:33,561 --> 01:09:33,961
Speaker 2: what what?

1399
01:09:34,201 --> 01:09:37,800
Speaker 1: What goes through your mind now knowing that the they're

1400
01:09:37,881 --> 01:09:41,281
Speaker 1: in jail and doing life. Yeah, they've taken your brother.

1401
01:09:43,561 --> 01:09:47,001
Speaker 2: Listen, I've been given a task from my family that

1402
01:09:47,081 --> 01:09:51,041
Speaker 2: I failed, and I had so much like listen, I

1403
01:09:51,681 --> 01:09:53,881
Speaker 2: had so much rage in me that I wanted these

1404
01:09:53,881 --> 01:09:57,001
Speaker 2: people that took what I believed was my hero. Do

1405
01:09:57,041 --> 01:10:01,001
Speaker 2: you know what I mean away from me? Because I

1406
01:10:01,441 --> 01:10:03,521
Speaker 2: never done My brother would have done it. My brother

1407
01:10:03,561 --> 01:10:06,641
Speaker 2: would have because that drug world is not my world.

1408
01:10:07,001 --> 01:10:08,761
Speaker 2: So I didn't know where to go, so I was

1409
01:10:08,841 --> 01:10:11,401
Speaker 2: slow on the uptake. I had to find people to

1410
01:10:11,441 --> 01:10:13,441
Speaker 2: feed the information to get me to where I needed

1411
01:10:13,481 --> 01:10:16,641
Speaker 2: to be. Where my brother is of that world, he

1412
01:10:16,641 --> 01:10:18,680
Speaker 2: would have known exactly where to go, and he would

1413
01:10:18,681 --> 01:10:22,321
Speaker 2: have done what I failed to do for me. You

1414
01:10:22,361 --> 01:10:24,201
Speaker 2: know That's how I thought at the time. You've got

1415
01:10:24,201 --> 01:10:26,601
Speaker 2: to remember, I'm built up. I'm so built up that

1416
01:10:26,641 --> 01:10:29,081
Speaker 2: I'm looking for for murderers and I'm going to kill them.

1417
01:10:29,321 --> 01:10:31,001
Speaker 2: I Am going to kill these geezes. I'm going to

1418
01:10:31,081 --> 01:10:33,481
Speaker 2: make I'm going to make them suffer. I had this

1419
01:10:33,601 --> 01:10:36,281
Speaker 2: in me, this rage I'm dealing with, like I say,

1420
01:10:36,281 --> 01:10:39,041
Speaker 2: skits and stuff. So I'm already built up and I'm

1421
01:10:39,081 --> 01:10:44,921
Speaker 2: made to feel that way automatically genetically. Yeah, So I'm there.

1422
01:10:45,081 --> 01:10:47,281
Speaker 2: And when people take that away from you and you've

1423
01:10:47,281 --> 01:10:49,041
Speaker 2: got nowhere of letting that out. The only way I

1424
01:10:49,041 --> 01:10:51,241
Speaker 2: could let that go and let that be free. It's

1425
01:10:51,281 --> 01:10:54,361
Speaker 2: by killing these people and that's what I wanted.

1426
01:10:54,641 --> 01:10:57,321
Speaker 1: Do you still have that rage now for the four this?

1427
01:10:58,521 --> 01:11:01,721
Speaker 1: Or have you come to I wouldn't say peace with it,

1428
01:11:01,761 --> 01:11:04,441
Speaker 1: but are you? Just like camera is a big thing,

1429
01:11:04,481 --> 01:11:05,041
Speaker 1: but I think.

1430
01:11:06,761 --> 01:11:09,881
Speaker 2: I've learned manifestation when it comes to come, I've learned manifestation.

1431
01:11:10,001 --> 01:11:12,081
Speaker 2: Like right now, they're in jail and there's nothing I

1432
01:11:12,121 --> 01:11:14,721
Speaker 2: can do, so I'm not at peace, but I'm at

1433
01:11:14,761 --> 01:11:16,681
Speaker 2: a level where I know that one day they're going

1434
01:11:16,721 --> 01:11:18,801
Speaker 2: to come out, and I know when they come out

1435
01:11:19,161 --> 01:11:22,681
Speaker 2: that I don't know how. I don't know how I'm

1436
01:11:22,681 --> 01:11:24,641
Speaker 2: going to feel when they come out. I don't know

1437
01:11:24,681 --> 01:11:26,521
Speaker 2: whether I know two of them are probably die in

1438
01:11:26,561 --> 01:11:28,801
Speaker 2: jowl because they're old. They'll be in their seventies when

1439
01:11:28,801 --> 01:11:31,921
Speaker 2: they get released, so they're probably going to die. And

1440
01:11:31,961 --> 01:11:33,761
Speaker 2: the other two are from London, but I'll probably never

1441
01:11:33,841 --> 01:11:36,281
Speaker 2: even bump into them. But if I did bump into them,

1442
01:11:36,361 --> 01:11:40,001
Speaker 2: I don't know, man, I don't know. I don't think

1443
01:11:40,081 --> 01:11:43,161
Speaker 2: any amount of recovery or space to freedom that I

1444
01:11:43,241 --> 01:11:46,041
Speaker 2: get with learning how to live with myself, would I

1445
01:11:46,081 --> 01:11:49,161
Speaker 2: probably be able to walk away from someone that took

1446
01:11:50,321 --> 01:11:50,800
Speaker 2: my brother?

1447
01:11:50,921 --> 01:11:52,361
Speaker 1: Have you ever tried to go to the jail where

1448
01:11:52,401 --> 01:11:52,800
Speaker 1: they are.

1449
01:11:54,161 --> 01:11:58,161
Speaker 2: They won't let me. They won't let me because there

1450
01:11:58,281 --> 01:11:59,881
Speaker 2: was that lord that was brought in where you can

1451
01:11:59,881 --> 01:12:04,161
Speaker 2: come face to face with your video. Yeah, and I've

1452
01:12:04,161 --> 01:12:06,561
Speaker 2: asked about it. I've asked about it because I want

1453
01:12:06,561 --> 01:12:09,521
Speaker 2: to know why. I want to know the truth. I

1454
01:12:09,561 --> 01:12:11,641
Speaker 2: want to know. I want to know how they're thinking.

1455
01:12:11,721 --> 01:12:13,481
Speaker 2: Now do they regret it? That's what I want to know.

1456
01:12:15,041 --> 01:12:17,601
Speaker 2: You know. Doing the podcast for myself on my own channel,

1457
01:12:17,841 --> 01:12:20,161
Speaker 2: I needed a It was therapy for me, you know,

1458
01:12:20,921 --> 01:12:23,201
Speaker 2: it was therapy for me. And hearing other people's stories,

1459
01:12:23,241 --> 01:12:27,761
Speaker 2: people that forgive, and and you know Michael Emmett, he's

1460
01:12:27,801 --> 01:12:31,680
Speaker 2: he does a Alpha God in prison. He does. It's massive,

1461
01:12:31,761 --> 01:12:34,601
Speaker 2: it's absolutely huge. And he says forgiveness is the cure

1462
01:12:34,641 --> 01:12:38,561
Speaker 2: to your soul. And he says, I need to forgive

1463
01:12:38,881 --> 01:12:41,281
Speaker 2: to be able to move on. I don't think I can.

1464
01:12:42,041 --> 01:12:46,161
Speaker 2: I really genuinely don't believe I can. So I guess

1465
01:12:46,161 --> 01:12:47,881
Speaker 2: I'll never move on from it. But I won't know,

1466
01:12:48,041 --> 01:12:51,521
Speaker 2: because you know, if someone if you don't like someone

1467
01:12:51,561 --> 01:12:53,561
Speaker 2: and you never see them, they kind of go away,

1468
01:12:54,201 --> 01:12:56,641
Speaker 2: but when you see them, everything comes back a bit

1469
01:12:56,761 --> 01:12:58,881
Speaker 2: like when I said when I was sixteen, that guy

1470
01:12:58,921 --> 01:13:00,361
Speaker 2: come back to me. I was ready for him. But

1471
01:13:00,401 --> 01:13:02,681
Speaker 2: when it comes back, it all come back. It's that

1472
01:13:02,721 --> 01:13:06,321
Speaker 2: feeling it. I won't know until I either they get

1473
01:13:06,361 --> 01:13:14,001
Speaker 2: released or I'll bump into them, but I'd imagine that

1474
01:13:14,001 --> 01:13:16,800
Speaker 2: they wouldn't be allowed anywhere near us and the family anyway.

1475
01:13:16,881 --> 01:13:19,281
Speaker 2: But if it's London, I got family in London, I'm

1476
01:13:19,321 --> 01:13:21,201
Speaker 2: sure i'll bump into them. And I don't know what

1477
01:13:21,241 --> 01:13:23,281
Speaker 2: it'll be. I'm going to be in my fifties at

1478
01:13:23,281 --> 01:13:26,441
Speaker 2: the time they'll come out anyway, like mid fifties, So

1479
01:13:27,081 --> 01:13:30,521
Speaker 2: I need to stay sharp, you know that.

1480
01:13:30,601 --> 01:13:35,001
Speaker 1: But your brother's legacy lives on in your in your charity, Yeah,

1481
01:13:35,081 --> 01:13:37,921
Speaker 1: in the charity that you do, and also that you

1482
01:13:37,961 --> 01:13:40,881
Speaker 1: did the is it the Blue? Tell me about the

1483
01:13:41,241 --> 01:13:43,281
Speaker 1: bleak control kids that you got around.

1484
01:13:44,841 --> 01:13:48,201
Speaker 2: So I've done a lot of raising awareness in that

1485
01:13:49,041 --> 01:13:51,201
Speaker 2: the schools were a bit empty with letting us go

1486
01:13:51,241 --> 01:13:53,001
Speaker 2: in because they felt like if they'd let them in,

1487
01:13:53,041 --> 01:13:54,841
Speaker 2: then they'd be letting the parents know that there's a

1488
01:13:54,881 --> 01:13:57,401
Speaker 2: knife crime problem within that school, and the OFFSTED rating

1489
01:13:57,641 --> 01:14:00,001
Speaker 2: would stop them from being funded. So they're not they're

1490
01:14:00,001 --> 01:14:02,521
Speaker 2: not free on letting us raise awareness on knife crime.

1491
01:14:03,961 --> 01:14:07,801
Speaker 2: You know. So I'm anti anti knife, anti weapon. Now

1492
01:14:07,921 --> 01:14:10,321
Speaker 2: do you know where before I lived and lived and

1493
01:14:10,361 --> 01:14:12,001
Speaker 2: died for it. But I've been on the other side,

1494
01:14:12,001 --> 01:14:15,321
Speaker 2: so I know, you know, so I had to figure

1495
01:14:15,321 --> 01:14:18,041
Speaker 2: out ways to try and raise awareness or what we're

1496
01:14:18,081 --> 01:14:22,760
Speaker 2: doing globally, not just within my town, like everywhere, because

1497
01:14:22,761 --> 01:14:24,041
Speaker 2: I don't want to want to feel it the way

1498
01:14:24,041 --> 01:14:27,041
Speaker 2: that I feel because I'm chewed up, you know. So

1499
01:14:27,881 --> 01:14:30,561
Speaker 2: we started doing charity events and we were going out

1500
01:14:30,601 --> 01:14:34,720
Speaker 2: to car events and basketball events, anything that we could

1501
01:14:34,801 --> 01:14:37,321
Speaker 2: do to raise awareness. We've got like the all the

1502
01:14:37,401 --> 01:14:39,801
Speaker 2: marquee that says stop and I crime, the leaflets, we've

1503
01:14:39,801 --> 01:14:41,961
Speaker 2: done our own leaflets. The police have took them in.

1504
01:14:42,041 --> 01:14:44,801
Speaker 2: They love it all, they love what we do. But

1505
01:14:44,961 --> 01:14:48,361
Speaker 2: the a few more people got stabbed in our town,

1506
01:14:48,521 --> 01:14:50,680
Speaker 2: a couple of kids, a couple of adults, and they died.

1507
01:14:51,281 --> 01:14:54,361
Speaker 2: But if there would have been something there that would

1508
01:14:54,361 --> 01:14:57,201
Speaker 2: have helped them and they probably some of them would

1509
01:14:57,201 --> 01:14:59,281
Speaker 2: probably be alive. Maybe my brother would be alive. I

1510
01:14:59,321 --> 01:15:02,201
Speaker 2: don't know. We don't know because it's like there wasn't

1511
01:15:02,201 --> 01:15:03,441
Speaker 2: anything there is.

1512
01:15:03,761 --> 01:15:06,441
Speaker 1: The knife crime that bad still in England is it is.

1513
01:15:06,401 --> 01:15:10,680
Speaker 2: It like, yeah, yeah, it's the chosen now. If people

1514
01:15:10,721 --> 01:15:14,041
Speaker 2: are honest for themselves, Yeah, if people are honest with themselves,

1515
01:15:14,561 --> 01:15:18,760
Speaker 2: we're the younger generation are a generation that cannot fight.

1516
01:15:19,441 --> 01:15:21,041
Speaker 1: Yeah, true, that's very true.

1517
01:15:21,081 --> 01:15:25,361
Speaker 2: Oh my god. They have got balls. Yeah, they've got

1518
01:15:25,361 --> 01:15:28,161
Speaker 2: no problems with taking your life. Yeah, but they can't

1519
01:15:28,161 --> 01:15:30,081
Speaker 2: do it physically, so they have to do it with

1520
01:15:30,241 --> 01:15:32,681
Speaker 2: at all. They will stab you before they'll punch out,

1521
01:15:33,081 --> 01:15:34,681
Speaker 2: because if they punch it, they know they get hit

1522
01:15:34,721 --> 01:15:35,641
Speaker 2: back and they can't take it.

1523
01:15:35,881 --> 01:15:36,441
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1524
01:15:36,561 --> 01:15:37,841
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know what it is with them.

1525
01:15:37,881 --> 01:15:39,441
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't get it. Like you can

1526
01:15:39,481 --> 01:15:41,641
Speaker 2: punch someone and you just go back and punch them again.

1527
01:15:41,881 --> 01:15:44,601
Speaker 2: But you're alive, you can live, you're free, you're out.

1528
01:15:45,561 --> 01:15:48,601
Speaker 2: But now someone to stab you with an eighteen inch

1529
01:15:48,641 --> 01:15:51,121
Speaker 2: twenty inch knife before they do even punch or slap

1530
01:15:51,161 --> 01:15:55,361
Speaker 2: you around the face. It's mental. They cannot fight, but

1531
01:15:55,441 --> 01:15:58,841
Speaker 2: they have more balls. That's an very scary thing.

1532
01:15:59,081 --> 01:16:01,881
Speaker 1: That's very true. Bro, that's very true. That's where it's

1533
01:16:01,921 --> 01:16:02,641
Speaker 1: like over you too.

1534
01:16:03,481 --> 01:16:05,601
Speaker 2: Yeah, they got they got more balls. We had when

1535
01:16:05,641 --> 01:16:08,720
Speaker 2: we were younger, but we had no fear like they.

1536
01:16:09,521 --> 01:16:11,401
Speaker 2: We would know that if we was going to stab here,

1537
01:16:11,441 --> 01:16:14,161
Speaker 2: there's a possibility that you'll die. Yeah, but if we

1538
01:16:14,201 --> 01:16:18,081
Speaker 2: had a punch up, the reputation leaves greater, stronger because

1539
01:16:18,081 --> 01:16:21,281
Speaker 2: you're out, you're you know, you're you're you're out, you're free,

1540
01:16:21,321 --> 01:16:24,641
Speaker 2: you're alive. Where if you stab someone get reputation, Oh

1541
01:16:24,681 --> 01:16:27,041
Speaker 2: you're a murderer, but you're in jail, no one out here.

1542
01:16:27,041 --> 01:16:29,001
Speaker 2: You're forgotten and you won't even be allowed to come

1543
01:16:29,041 --> 01:16:34,001
Speaker 2: back here to live that. That reputation anyway, just pointless.

1544
01:16:34,961 --> 01:16:37,920
Speaker 1: I'll never change. It's because the generation and the generation

1545
01:16:38,081 --> 01:16:39,321
Speaker 1: just gets worse and worse and worse.

1546
01:16:40,481 --> 01:16:43,881
Speaker 2: Yeah, but we are a product of our environment, and

1547
01:16:43,961 --> 01:16:46,721
Speaker 2: we led the path for this to happen, do you

1548
01:16:46,761 --> 01:16:49,561
Speaker 2: know what I mean? We would. We was the first,

1549
01:16:49,561 --> 01:16:51,881
Speaker 2: and then the people before us were the first, and

1550
01:16:51,921 --> 01:16:55,041
Speaker 2: we just get bread more crazier because you know, we're

1551
01:16:55,321 --> 01:16:57,401
Speaker 2: a product. This is what we've done to our environment.

1552
01:16:57,561 --> 01:16:59,081
Speaker 2: And that's what I mean. I took so much away

1553
01:16:59,081 --> 01:17:02,601
Speaker 2: from my environment and where I live that now I

1554
01:17:02,761 --> 01:17:07,001
Speaker 2: just give back and it's by far greater rewarding now

1555
01:17:07,041 --> 01:17:10,680
Speaker 2: than what itever has been when I was a lunatic.

1556
01:17:11,681 --> 01:17:13,241
Speaker 1: Yeah, have you got a lot of support for your

1557
01:17:13,321 --> 01:17:14,801
Speaker 1: charity over there like that.

1558
01:17:15,401 --> 01:17:20,561
Speaker 2: Absolutely, not financially, not financially from you know, the peers

1559
01:17:20,601 --> 01:17:22,801
Speaker 2: that have got endless amounts of money that they can

1560
01:17:22,801 --> 01:17:25,481
Speaker 2: give us. The government can give us money. They don't.

1561
01:17:25,561 --> 01:17:27,241
Speaker 2: They don't. They don't give us no money. They don't

1562
01:17:27,241 --> 01:17:29,881
Speaker 2: give us no money because we're raising awareness that there's

1563
01:17:29,921 --> 01:17:32,321
Speaker 2: a problem within the town rather than getting on top

1564
01:17:32,361 --> 01:17:36,761
Speaker 2: of it and having a solution with the problem. It's not.

1565
01:17:36,961 --> 01:17:39,121
Speaker 2: So what we do is we private fund and we

1566
01:17:39,441 --> 01:17:41,721
Speaker 2: do everything we can. We've got a lady in the

1567
01:17:41,761 --> 01:17:44,521
Speaker 2: studio that works for us called Amy. She does charity

1568
01:17:44,601 --> 01:17:48,201
Speaker 2: days where she does tattoos, raise money. We go out

1569
01:17:48,241 --> 01:17:54,281
Speaker 2: and we we ask companies, small businesses to get involved.

1570
01:17:54,321 --> 01:17:56,721
Speaker 2: Everyone's involved because people have had enoughing now, people have

1571
01:17:56,761 --> 01:17:58,641
Speaker 2: got kids that are going to jail. They're not even

1572
01:17:58,641 --> 01:18:00,921
Speaker 2: having a sixteenth birthday out here. They're either dead or

1573
01:18:00,961 --> 01:18:03,601
Speaker 2: they're in jail. You know. Can you imagine celebrating your

1574
01:18:03,641 --> 01:18:08,321
Speaker 2: sixteenth your sixteenth birthday, your child's sixteenth birthday cemetery? Yeah,

1575
01:18:09,481 --> 01:18:11,761
Speaker 2: you know, I imagine that. So people have had enough

1576
01:18:11,801 --> 01:18:13,521
Speaker 2: and they're getting involved with us, and they see that

1577
01:18:13,561 --> 01:18:15,680
Speaker 2: we're doing I thought we was only going to raise

1578
01:18:16,321 --> 01:18:19,441
Speaker 2: we managed to buy free kids ourselves. We bought three

1579
01:18:19,521 --> 01:18:25,601
Speaker 2: kits ourselves. We got them up and the our town

1580
01:18:26,001 --> 01:18:29,961
Speaker 2: went mental. They couldn't believe and they all jumped on board.

1581
01:18:29,961 --> 01:18:33,001
Speaker 2: They absolutely was like, thank you so much. You know,

1582
01:18:33,241 --> 01:18:35,681
Speaker 2: even the gangs, even the gangs they come across us,

1583
01:18:35,681 --> 01:18:37,481
Speaker 2: So thanks for what you're doing because I know I'm

1584
01:18:37,481 --> 01:18:41,161
Speaker 2: going to need that. The kids know they're thanking the

1585
01:18:41,281 --> 01:18:43,001
Speaker 2: same thank you because they know that they're going to

1586
01:18:43,041 --> 01:18:46,401
Speaker 2: need it. We've put a kit in every estate where

1587
01:18:46,401 --> 01:18:49,121
Speaker 2: all the kids knock around at the shops. We've got

1588
01:18:49,121 --> 01:18:52,121
Speaker 2: thirty three kits out so far and we've got what's

1589
01:18:52,121 --> 01:18:56,561
Speaker 2: there another ten. We've got another nine up here ready

1590
01:18:56,601 --> 01:19:00,401
Speaker 2: to go out. You know, we're secured Ipswich. We secured

1591
01:19:00,441 --> 01:19:03,561
Speaker 2: the couple of towns next to us, and the legacy

1592
01:19:03,641 --> 01:19:05,921
Speaker 2: is becoming stronger. They are when this is getting better

1593
01:19:06,321 --> 01:19:08,841
Speaker 2: and people are recognizing what we're doing, I get more.

1594
01:19:08,881 --> 01:19:11,561
Speaker 2: I get more recognized now for the stuff that we're

1595
01:19:11,561 --> 01:19:14,680
Speaker 2: doing with the charity and the emergency BLEA control kits,

1596
01:19:14,681 --> 01:19:17,241
Speaker 2: and than I do for the business that I have

1597
01:19:17,321 --> 01:19:19,881
Speaker 2: in the town. He used to be the other way around,

1598
01:19:20,401 --> 01:19:22,481
Speaker 2: but I just didn't I didn't want to be, Oh,

1599
01:19:22,561 --> 01:19:24,841
Speaker 2: you're that guy whose brother was stabbed, and I didn't

1600
01:19:24,881 --> 01:19:26,680
Speaker 2: want my brother to be your brother was the one

1601
01:19:26,681 --> 01:19:30,001
Speaker 2: that died because he got stabbed. You know. I wanted

1602
01:19:30,041 --> 01:19:32,561
Speaker 2: it to be like you see his face, you see

1603
01:19:32,561 --> 01:19:34,961
Speaker 2: what we're doing. I wanted him to be back to

1604
01:19:35,041 --> 01:19:36,961
Speaker 2: what I remember is in when we were a kid

1605
01:19:37,001 --> 01:19:42,001
Speaker 2: and there was a legend and he regrets. I regret

1606
01:19:42,121 --> 01:19:48,881
Speaker 2: meeting the women that I've been with, and I mean

1607
01:19:48,921 --> 01:19:53,601
Speaker 2: that as well with all my heart, like seriously, other

1608
01:19:53,681 --> 01:19:56,720
Speaker 2: than the women's side of things, I regret the pain

1609
01:19:56,761 --> 01:19:59,401
Speaker 2: that I caused people when I was at my worst,

1610
01:20:01,241 --> 01:20:04,761
Speaker 2: because I know how it feels now where I didn't then.

1611
01:20:05,441 --> 01:20:07,680
Speaker 2: It was all ego then, but now it's all pain now,

1612
01:20:07,761 --> 01:20:10,041
Speaker 2: So I know, I know. I I regret. I regret

1613
01:20:10,921 --> 01:20:16,681
Speaker 2: causing people suffer. I regret all the negative emotions that

1614
01:20:16,721 --> 01:20:20,441
Speaker 2: I created around that surrounded me to be able to

1615
01:20:20,481 --> 01:20:24,321
Speaker 2: cause people harm, to be able to boost my ego.

1616
01:20:25,561 --> 01:20:27,481
Speaker 2: So I regret. I regret that.

1617
01:20:27,721 --> 01:20:30,760
Speaker 1: So you you actually think that that that that violent

1618
01:20:30,881 --> 01:20:38,201
Speaker 1: you is is no longer there anymore. That's the second

1619
01:20:38,281 --> 01:20:47,201
Speaker 1: time I've got you. You you put yourself in that hole.

1620
01:20:50,161 --> 01:20:56,881
Speaker 2: Listen, yeah, it's not that. That mean that means is gone. Yeah,

1621
01:20:56,961 --> 01:21:00,800
Speaker 2: that that that hot, that hot happening instant is gone.

1622
01:21:01,601 --> 01:21:04,801
Speaker 2: Like the violent side of things. If if I get

1623
01:21:04,841 --> 01:21:06,761
Speaker 2: like I said to you earlier on, if if I

1624
01:21:06,881 --> 01:21:09,801
Speaker 2: was to be if I was to be put into

1625
01:21:09,841 --> 01:21:16,321
Speaker 2: a corner, it's there. It's always gonna be there, exactly.

1626
01:21:16,761 --> 01:21:19,201
Speaker 2: You never lose that. If you've got that, if you've

1627
01:21:19,201 --> 01:21:24,521
Speaker 2: got that animal there and the disease, if it's there,

1628
01:21:24,561 --> 01:21:26,641
Speaker 2: you ain't never losing it. It's never gone, you know,

1629
01:21:26,801 --> 01:21:30,121
Speaker 2: it never is. But do I want to cause people problems? Now?

1630
01:21:30,561 --> 01:21:33,961
Speaker 2: That's gone, that's long gone. I'm definitely not the first

1631
01:21:34,001 --> 01:21:38,441
Speaker 2: person to to to be on that like ego trip

1632
01:21:38,561 --> 01:21:40,441
Speaker 2: where I have to make sure that you know that

1633
01:21:40,561 --> 01:21:44,081
Speaker 2: I'm the better person. That's that's long gone. But if

1634
01:21:44,081 --> 01:21:53,441
Speaker 2: you put me into a corner, hello, oh.

1635
01:21:52,921 --> 01:21:56,041
Speaker 1: Man, you're just a mate, You're just a teddy bear, come.

1636
01:21:55,841 --> 01:22:00,361
Speaker 2: On, exactly exactly, you know. So for onwards and upwards,

1637
01:22:00,401 --> 01:22:03,760
Speaker 2: it's just positivity and awareness really and just to carry

1638
01:22:03,761 --> 01:22:07,641
Speaker 2: on just being being happy, being and just you know,

1639
01:22:07,801 --> 01:22:10,601
Speaker 2: staying away from as much of the negative as I can.

1640
01:22:11,081 --> 01:22:15,241
Speaker 2: It's testing, it's testing you know yourself it's harder to

1641
01:22:15,281 --> 01:22:16,601
Speaker 2: be good than it is to be bad.

1642
01:22:17,161 --> 01:22:19,201
Speaker 1: I'm so glad you came on to talk about it.

1643
01:22:19,241 --> 01:22:21,441
Speaker 1: And it's you know, as I said, it's not just

1644
01:22:21,481 --> 01:22:23,961
Speaker 1: here that'll hear it over here and everyone else. That's

1645
01:22:23,961 --> 01:22:25,641
Speaker 1: why I said, if you want to give, you give

1646
01:22:25,641 --> 01:22:27,281
Speaker 1: you a charity, a plug and all like that, and

1647
01:22:27,401 --> 01:22:30,601
Speaker 1: so it's you know, it gets out there and the charities.

1648
01:22:30,681 --> 01:22:33,321
Speaker 2: Be Lucky Anti Crime Foundation my brother always he never

1649
01:22:33,321 --> 01:22:35,801
Speaker 2: said goodbye, he always said be Lucky, so it was

1650
01:22:35,881 --> 01:22:38,641
Speaker 2: named after him. Really, so it's Be Lucky Anti Crime Foundation.

1651
01:22:39,761 --> 01:22:42,680
Speaker 2: The podcast where our raise awareness where people haven't had

1652
01:22:42,681 --> 01:22:44,841
Speaker 2: a voice or they've been they've been shut down to

1653
01:22:44,841 --> 01:22:47,161
Speaker 2: be able to hear as the Paul Sandsbury Podcast. And

1654
01:22:47,201 --> 01:22:51,081
Speaker 2: that's the same across all social media. My sponsors Black

1655
01:22:51,121 --> 01:22:54,241
Speaker 2: Saint London, they've got a YouTube channel Gang Up as well,

1656
01:22:54,241 --> 01:22:58,361
Speaker 2: Black Saint London TV. But yeah, it's all based around

1657
01:22:58,881 --> 01:23:01,001
Speaker 2: what I do. If you want to tattoo Lucky thirteen

1658
01:23:01,041 --> 01:23:07,521
Speaker 2: Paul stands by, check it out. Yeah, it's so good.

1659
01:23:07,561 --> 01:23:08,201
Speaker 2: I appreciate you.

1660
01:23:08,441 --> 01:23:10,881
Speaker 1: Now, bro, it's been a pleasure, man, pleasure. I'm telling

1661
01:23:10,881 --> 01:23:17,161
Speaker 1: you friends for life from one telling friends for next

1662
01:23:17,161 --> 01:23:18,840
Speaker 1: week on Secrets of the Underworld.

1663
01:23:18,881 --> 01:23:20,841
Speaker 3: Okay, this is gonna sound weird, but I never knew

1664
01:23:20,841 --> 01:23:23,641
Speaker 3: what a gay man looked like. Gay was forbidden. Okay,

1665
01:23:23,681 --> 01:23:25,441
Speaker 3: in the religion gay is so bidden.

1666
01:23:25,481 --> 01:23:28,001
Speaker 1: We have Trishy Dishy, the Queen of Sydney's Light Light.

1667
01:23:28,241 --> 01:23:31,241
Speaker 3: People that I know for thirty years turn their back

1668
01:23:31,281 --> 01:23:34,241
Speaker 3: on me, cannot talk to me, cannot look at me,

1669
01:23:34,601 --> 01:23:37,001
Speaker 3: treat me like a lepard. You know that's not That's

1670
01:23:37,041 --> 01:23:39,841
Speaker 3: not a religion of loves. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, but

1671
01:23:39,961 --> 01:23:41,521
Speaker 3: you know, I know in my heart I've done the

1672
01:23:41,561 --> 01:23:43,361
Speaker 3: right thing. I don't even drink that much now, but

1673
01:23:43,441 --> 01:23:45,521
Speaker 3: I'll have a couple of cocktails and a few wet

1674
01:23:45,521 --> 01:23:49,801
Speaker 3: passy shots. And that's if you have a job. You

1675
01:23:49,921 --> 01:23:52,521
Speaker 3: just place it add on there shit, and that's how

1676
01:23:52,521 --> 01:23:52,921
Speaker 3: it works.

1677
01:23:52,961 --> 01:23:53,561
Speaker 2: They work out.

1678
01:23:53,641 --> 01:23:55,880
Speaker 3: Course, she can't you anymore?

1679
01:23:56,041 --> 01:23:58,601
Speaker 1: Fuck? You know everything I did, man, right.

1680
01:23:58,721 --> 01:24:00,761
Speaker 3: You know, like I'm not stupping yet, And people go,

1681
01:24:00,841 --> 01:24:03,481
Speaker 3: aren't you old enough? Haven't you done enough? No, I

1682
01:24:03,481 --> 01:24:06,761
Speaker 3: haven't done enough. Don't ever asked me that again. I

1683
01:24:07,321 --> 01:24:09,201
Speaker 3: get a lot of the sexy girls, you know, working

1684
01:24:09,241 --> 01:24:16,841
Speaker 3: girls as well, so mm hmm.