1 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:06,539 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed daily interview. I'm Sean 2 00:00:06,540 --> 00:00:10,320 Sean Aylmer: Aylmer. A constant challenge for companies is finding the right 3 00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:13,679 Sean Aylmer: way to connect with consumers and other businesses to make 4 00:00:13,679 --> 00:00:17,309 Sean Aylmer: sure their brand stays relevant and front of mind. And 5 00:00:17,309 --> 00:00:20,220 Sean Aylmer: often that means being a little bit creative. I wanted 6 00:00:20,220 --> 00:00:22,980 Sean Aylmer: to find out what the advertising industry is like post 7 00:00:23,070 --> 00:00:25,950 Sean Aylmer: COVID, whether brands are still willing to push the boundaries, 8 00:00:26,189 --> 00:00:29,130 Sean Aylmer: the role of trust in advertising, and whether the world 9 00:00:29,130 --> 00:00:32,610 Sean Aylmer: now really does revolve around TikTok. Justin Graham is group 10 00:00:32,639 --> 00:00:36,360 Sean Aylmer: CEO of M& C Saatchi Australia and New Zealand and 11 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:40,650 Sean Aylmer: Global Head of Advertising. Throughout his career, he's advised clients 12 00:00:40,650 --> 00:00:44,909 Sean Aylmer: including Commonwealth Bank, Woolies, Tabcorp, Optus, Qantas, and more. And 13 00:00:44,909 --> 00:00:47,699 Sean Aylmer: that's just the local companies. He's joining us this morning 14 00:00:47,700 --> 00:00:52,109 Sean Aylmer: from Cannes, the most famous advertising festival in the world. 15 00:00:52,109 --> 00:00:53,400 Sean Aylmer: Justin, welcome to Fear and Greed. 16 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:55,500 Justin Graham: Great to be here. Thank you. 17 00:00:55,830 --> 00:00:57,750 Sean Aylmer: I've got to ask you about Cannes first. I mean, 18 00:00:57,750 --> 00:01:01,170 Sean Aylmer: we'll get into the stuff about brands and things. It's 19 00:01:01,170 --> 00:01:04,589 Sean Aylmer: such a glamorous sounding place for people like me who 20 00:01:04,590 --> 00:01:06,690 Sean Aylmer: have never been there. What happens when all the ad 21 00:01:06,690 --> 00:01:09,120 Sean Aylmer: execs get together at Cannes? What's it about? 22 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:12,540 Justin Graham: That's a great question. It's 70 years actually of the 23 00:01:12,540 --> 00:01:16,200 Justin Graham: Cannes Lions Festival down here. I'm not sure why it 24 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:19,890 Justin Graham: started here originally, but there's obviously two main festivals down 25 00:01:19,890 --> 00:01:22,619 Justin Graham: in Cannes. There's the film festival, which happened about three 26 00:01:22,620 --> 00:01:25,679 Justin Graham: weeks ago, and then there's the advertising festival, which always 27 00:01:25,679 --> 00:01:28,529 Justin Graham: happens the second or third week of June. And yeah, 28 00:01:28,529 --> 00:01:34,589 Justin Graham: it's tens of thousands of advertising media, entertainment executives descending 29 00:01:34,590 --> 00:01:37,200 Justin Graham: on one of the most beautiful places in the world, 30 00:01:38,099 --> 00:01:40,440 Justin Graham: which I think, at one point was very much around 31 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:43,110 Justin Graham: patting each other on the back and more for the 32 00:01:43,110 --> 00:01:45,658 Justin Graham: creative side of the industry to be able to award 33 00:01:45,660 --> 00:01:47,820 Justin Graham: each other the best work that was happening around the 34 00:01:47,820 --> 00:01:51,030 Justin Graham: world and inspire each other. And over the years, that 35 00:01:51,030 --> 00:01:54,120 Justin Graham: has very much evolved, and now awards are still a 36 00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:57,570 Justin Graham: part of the festival, but now it's very much around 37 00:01:57,660 --> 00:02:02,250 Justin Graham: a showcase for new technology, understanding at least the media 38 00:02:02,250 --> 00:02:05,730 Justin Graham: environment and a place where the people that actually paid 39 00:02:05,730 --> 00:02:09,299 Justin Graham: the bills, the clients, probably never came and weren't seen. 40 00:02:09,630 --> 00:02:12,810 Justin Graham: It's very much a festival designed for the clients to 41 00:02:12,810 --> 00:02:15,120 Justin Graham: be as much a part of that community and part 42 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:17,700 Justin Graham: of the conversation as the agencies. 43 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:20,099 Sean Aylmer: It'd be a great week or two to be in 44 00:02:20,099 --> 00:02:22,410 Sean Aylmer: the French Riviera, no doubt about it. So tell me, 45 00:02:23,070 --> 00:02:28,139 Sean Aylmer: how has advertising changed since the pandemic? Are brands becoming 46 00:02:28,139 --> 00:02:30,930 Sean Aylmer: more risk averse? Have they come out of their shell 47 00:02:30,930 --> 00:02:34,888 Sean Aylmer: again? Just broadly give us the temperature on brands. 48 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:39,749 Justin Graham: Yeah, there was definitely a time through the pandemic where 49 00:02:39,839 --> 00:02:42,510 Justin Graham: I would say there was great safety around what we 50 00:02:42,510 --> 00:02:45,810 Justin Graham: were doing in the communication space, and that was very necessary. 51 00:02:46,290 --> 00:02:49,380 Justin Graham: I've talked in the past about how we went from 52 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:54,418 Justin Graham: thinking around origination and brand building to a more utilitarian approach. 53 00:02:54,419 --> 00:02:56,880 Justin Graham: And as we think around the brands that we were 54 00:02:56,880 --> 00:03:01,079 Justin Graham: certainly fortunate to support through that time in Australia, the 55 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:04,410 Justin Graham: likes of the Woolworths Group and Commonwealth Bank, even Tourism 56 00:03:04,410 --> 00:03:07,590 Justin Graham: Australia from a domestic point of view, it was more 57 00:03:07,620 --> 00:03:10,529 Justin Graham: practical in terms of what consumers and what people needed 58 00:03:10,530 --> 00:03:12,959 Justin Graham: from those brands at that time because there was some real, 59 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:15,508 Justin Graham: obviously fear and some significant changes to how we were 60 00:03:15,508 --> 00:03:19,110 Justin Graham: living our lives. Coming out of that pandemic, there's definitely 61 00:03:19,110 --> 00:03:22,889 Justin Graham: been some learnings around how we can talk to consumers 62 00:03:22,889 --> 00:03:25,440 Justin Graham: and what they want to hear from brands. There's definitely 63 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:28,980 Justin Graham: been a shift in media consumption. So significant shifts around 64 00:03:28,980 --> 00:03:33,119 Justin Graham: linear TV. Linear TV in particular, has effectively fallen off 65 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:35,670 Justin Graham: a cliff. Now, that's not to say that people aren't engaging 66 00:03:35,670 --> 00:03:38,670 Justin Graham: in content, they're just engaging in their own time, Catch 67 00:03:38,670 --> 00:03:42,990 Justin Graham: Up TV, BVOD, YouTube, and that's really driving the way 68 00:03:42,990 --> 00:03:47,760 Justin Graham: that we think around how we send messages. The extraordinary 69 00:03:48,059 --> 00:03:52,109 Justin Graham: progress that happened around both data and personalisation as well 70 00:03:52,109 --> 00:03:54,149 Justin Graham: as AI, which I'm sure we will talk about, that's 71 00:03:54,210 --> 00:03:57,480 Justin Graham: certainly been a theme this week as well, has meant 72 00:03:57,480 --> 00:04:02,520 Justin Graham: that the move away from big broadcast based advertising into 73 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:06,599 Justin Graham: personalised one-to-one communication has really been a theme this week 74 00:04:06,599 --> 00:04:08,880 Justin Graham: and it's been prominent around the world. It's probably the 75 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:11,340 Justin Graham: biggest impact that's happened coming out of the pandemic. 76 00:04:12,359 --> 00:04:14,730 Sean Aylmer: In a practical sense, I mean, when you're you talking 77 00:04:14,730 --> 00:04:18,960 Sean Aylmer: about that one- to- one communication, I think I understand 78 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:22,260 Sean Aylmer: it, but can you give me an example of how 79 00:04:22,260 --> 00:04:23,100 Sean Aylmer: that works? 80 00:04:23,759 --> 00:04:26,940 Justin Graham: Yeah, so you mentioned TikTok upfront there as well, and 81 00:04:26,940 --> 00:04:30,630 Justin Graham: I think there's how everyone's feed is engaged with in 82 00:04:30,630 --> 00:04:34,169 Justin Graham: different ways. Brands showing up and using real data to 83 00:04:34,170 --> 00:04:37,469 Justin Graham: understand how you can serve those messages and serve that 84 00:04:37,470 --> 00:04:42,748 Justin Graham: content through the feed becomes very personalised. Netflix, for example, 85 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:45,059 Justin Graham: a couple of years ago, their business model was very 86 00:04:45,059 --> 00:04:48,660 Justin Graham: much around subscription based services. Last year they announced they 87 00:04:48,660 --> 00:04:52,980 Justin Graham: were going to have an advertising funded model, and so surprise, surprise, 88 00:04:53,310 --> 00:04:55,919 Justin Graham: they've turned up at Cannes this year wanting to talk 89 00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:59,099 Justin Graham: to advertisers around how they can be part of the platform. 90 00:04:59,099 --> 00:05:02,459 Justin Graham: And so when you're logged in and you're part of 91 00:05:02,580 --> 00:05:07,529 Justin Graham: your Netflix subscription, then you can have effectively personalized ads. 92 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:10,859 Justin Graham: And as we start to look into artificial intelligence to 93 00:05:10,860 --> 00:05:12,870 Justin Graham: be able to generate that as well, what you might 94 00:05:12,870 --> 00:05:15,870 Justin Graham: see through your Netflix feed if you go down that 95 00:05:15,870 --> 00:05:18,719 Justin Graham: path to have that funded service will be different to mine. 96 00:05:18,990 --> 00:05:22,649 Justin Graham: And that's a great opportunity for advertisers because in the past 97 00:05:22,650 --> 00:05:25,350 Justin Graham: it was one message going out to the masses. Now, 98 00:05:25,350 --> 00:05:28,290 Justin Graham: there's an opportunity to customise that message through all the 99 00:05:28,290 --> 00:05:30,630 Justin Graham: pipes that we know that come into our house and 100 00:05:30,630 --> 00:05:31,260 Justin Graham: through our phone. 101 00:05:32,250 --> 00:05:34,230 Sean Aylmer: Yeah, the flip side of that though, as an advertiser, 102 00:05:34,230 --> 00:05:36,569 Sean Aylmer: how do I know which one to take? So if 103 00:05:36,570 --> 00:05:39,029 Sean Aylmer: Netflix is coming to me and linear TV's coming to 104 00:05:39,029 --> 00:05:42,240 Sean Aylmer: me, podcasts are coming to me, how do I know 105 00:05:43,020 --> 00:05:44,550 Sean Aylmer: which option to take? 106 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:48,150 Justin Graham: Yeah, I think there's a value exchange that happens with 107 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:53,159 Justin Graham: consumers and they're getting content, they're getting entertainment, they're getting news, 108 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:56,220 Justin Graham: whatever it might be. And so on the flip side there, 109 00:05:56,730 --> 00:05:58,650 Justin Graham: there's an opportunity for brands to be able to go 110 00:05:58,650 --> 00:06:02,368 Justin Graham: and customise the messages that they're saying there. So I 111 00:06:02,370 --> 00:06:06,390 Justin Graham: think it's an interesting world at the moment because certainly 112 00:06:06,390 --> 00:06:09,570 Justin Graham: talking to people down here, walking along the Croisette, as 113 00:06:09,570 --> 00:06:13,230 Justin Graham: they say, down in the French Riviera, it's an uncertain 114 00:06:13,230 --> 00:06:17,490 Justin Graham: time as well. It's an uncertain time around where brands 115 00:06:17,490 --> 00:06:21,420 Justin Graham: should be investing their money. Traditional metrics around Share of 116 00:06:21,420 --> 00:06:24,419 Justin Graham: Voice for example, are still very prominent and a lot 117 00:06:24,420 --> 00:06:27,779 Justin Graham: of the marketeers and boards are still incentivised around that. 118 00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:29,819 Justin Graham: But how do you go and get that reach when 119 00:06:29,820 --> 00:06:33,359 Justin Graham: you're going down these more one-to-one channels? So it's just 120 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:36,029 Justin Graham: reconciling itself at the moment. And so it will be interesting 121 00:06:36,029 --> 00:06:37,770 Justin Graham: in the next couple of years what that means for 122 00:06:37,770 --> 00:06:40,410 Justin Graham: advertising and creativity and where that takes it. 123 00:06:40,890 --> 00:06:42,810 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me, Justin. We'll be back in a minute. 124 00:06:48,809 --> 00:06:52,109 Sean Aylmer: My guest today is Justin Graham, Group CEO at M&C 125 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:55,860 Sean Aylmer: Saatchi Australia and New Zealand and Global Head of Advertising. 126 00:06:56,580 --> 00:06:58,830 Sean Aylmer: I'm interested in the brand itself. I mean, a brand 127 00:06:59,430 --> 00:07:02,339 Sean Aylmer: kind of represents a company or a product or whatever, 128 00:07:02,550 --> 00:07:04,889 Sean Aylmer: but if it's one-to-one, can you have a bunch of 129 00:07:04,889 --> 00:07:06,479 Sean Aylmer: different brands for the one product? 130 00:07:08,219 --> 00:07:12,449 Justin Graham: Yeah, it's a really good observation because effectively you can. 131 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:16,350 Justin Graham: I mean, we customize these brands and a brand that 132 00:07:16,350 --> 00:07:20,130 Justin Graham: everyone knows is Nike, and Nike's had a very good 133 00:07:20,429 --> 00:07:22,650 Justin Graham: week again here winning some awards for some work that 134 00:07:22,650 --> 00:07:26,819 Justin Graham: they've done. And Nike, I think, do it brilliantly. When 135 00:07:26,820 --> 00:07:30,180 Justin Graham: they think about their brand having a core, and then 136 00:07:30,180 --> 00:07:32,970 Justin Graham: the flex that sits around that brand that allows it 137 00:07:32,970 --> 00:07:36,510 Justin Graham: to move into different places. Whether you're a runner, a 138 00:07:36,510 --> 00:07:39,059 Justin Graham: yoga instructor, or someone that's just trying to go for 139 00:07:39,059 --> 00:07:41,010 Justin Graham: a walk or someone that's a skateboarder or whatever it 140 00:07:41,010 --> 00:07:44,099 Justin Graham: might be, that brand stretches into all those different areas. 141 00:07:44,099 --> 00:07:48,630 Justin Graham: So theoretically, your Nike experience would be very different to 142 00:07:48,630 --> 00:07:52,739 Justin Graham: my Nike experience. Yeah, and that's something that we're all 143 00:07:52,740 --> 00:07:55,530 Justin Graham: grappling with as well because arguably it was easier in 144 00:07:55,530 --> 00:07:57,540 Justin Graham: the past. I'm sure that people that were in the 145 00:07:57,540 --> 00:07:59,250 Justin Graham: past say, "No, it wasn't easy then. It was just 146 00:07:59,250 --> 00:08:00,869 Justin Graham: as hard." But we look back and say, "It was 147 00:08:00,870 --> 00:08:03,450 Justin Graham: probably easier because there was one message and you would 148 00:08:03,450 --> 00:08:07,380 Justin Graham: take a broader insight around society." Let's just take Nike 149 00:08:07,380 --> 00:08:10,500 Justin Graham: and they still stick to their purpose, which they believe 150 00:08:10,500 --> 00:08:14,639 Justin Graham: everyone's an athlete. How that manifests itself across multiple channels 151 00:08:14,639 --> 00:08:16,950 Justin Graham: and messages is really what's changed. 152 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:19,679 Sean Aylmer: I've got to ask about TikTok. We've mentioned it a 153 00:08:19,679 --> 00:08:22,769 Sean Aylmer: couple of times. Every time you read about TikTok, the 154 00:08:22,770 --> 00:08:26,130 Sean Aylmer: audience is growing and not withstanding some of the geopolitical 155 00:08:26,130 --> 00:08:31,680 Sean Aylmer: concerns, it is an incredibly powerful medium. Are brands using 156 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:37,081 Sean Aylmer: TikTok to reflect the numbers of people using TikTok? 157 00:08:37,081 --> 00:08:42,209 Justin Graham: They are. I mean, TikTok's just on an incredible journey of growth and are very 158 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:46,410 Justin Graham: prominent, again, here. It's often interesting to see the rise 159 00:08:46,410 --> 00:08:51,510 Justin Graham: in potentially more muted brands. Brands like Twitter, for example, 160 00:08:51,510 --> 00:08:54,360 Justin Graham: with all the challenges that they've had, are very muted 161 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:57,869 Justin Graham: in terms of their appearance. Whereas TikTok is very significant 162 00:08:57,870 --> 00:09:01,679 Justin Graham: and their growth is just extraordinary around the world. Brands 163 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:06,090 Justin Graham: love TikTok because it's a place where creation happens as 164 00:09:06,090 --> 00:09:08,970 Justin Graham: well. It really is a creator's platform, and so they 165 00:09:08,970 --> 00:09:13,319 Justin Graham: can be very creative around that piece. And it's interesting, 166 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:15,900 Justin Graham: I think the rise of TikTok, many brands were on 167 00:09:15,900 --> 00:09:18,929 Justin Graham: TikTok before they even realized they were on TikTok because 168 00:09:19,860 --> 00:09:24,809 Justin Graham: their employees, their staff members were uploading content around their 169 00:09:24,809 --> 00:09:27,900 Justin Graham: experience. And so yeah, it's a fascinating space to see 170 00:09:27,900 --> 00:09:30,599 Justin Graham: where that will go to, outside of the geopolitical concerns 171 00:09:30,599 --> 00:09:31,828 Justin Graham: as exactly as you said. 172 00:09:32,429 --> 00:09:35,069 Sean Aylmer: I've got to ask you about creativity just quickly, where 173 00:09:35,070 --> 00:09:38,130 Sean Aylmer: does Australia stack up in terms of creativity? Because you're 174 00:09:38,550 --> 00:09:42,300 Sean Aylmer: in the centre of the advertising world right now, how 175 00:09:42,300 --> 00:09:43,020 Sean Aylmer: do we perform? 176 00:09:44,190 --> 00:09:47,490 Justin Graham: Australia's always performed very well. We punch above our weight 177 00:09:47,550 --> 00:09:50,819 Justin Graham: and really perform well on the world stage. And after a 178 00:09:50,820 --> 00:09:54,179 Justin Graham: few quieter years in terms of our creativity, and I 179 00:09:54,179 --> 00:09:58,410 Justin Graham: think that was a product of a longer lockdown period, 180 00:09:59,010 --> 00:10:01,890 Justin Graham: more internally focused from an industry point of view in 181 00:10:01,890 --> 00:10:04,349 Justin Graham: terms of supporting each other and supporting the brands that 182 00:10:04,349 --> 00:10:07,140 Justin Graham: were certainly from on the domestic front through the pandemic. 183 00:10:07,620 --> 00:10:10,170 Justin Graham: This year has been a real return to form. There's 184 00:10:10,170 --> 00:10:14,309 Justin Graham: been Australians winning across the world stage every night. There's 185 00:10:14,309 --> 00:10:17,130 Justin Graham: a series of awards across the different types of advertising, 186 00:10:17,130 --> 00:10:20,429 Justin Graham: whether that be film or entertainment or effectiveness, et cetera. 187 00:10:20,790 --> 00:10:23,429 Justin Graham: And every night Australians have done incredibly well. So it's 188 00:10:23,429 --> 00:10:26,399 Justin Graham: great to see my colleagues around the world getting up 189 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:29,309 Justin Graham: there and getting some awards again and being recognized, because 190 00:10:30,900 --> 00:10:34,439 Justin Graham: Australia has always been a fascinating melting pot for creativity. 191 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:37,620 Justin Graham: Australians have always done very well on the world stage 192 00:10:37,620 --> 00:10:40,500 Justin Graham: and are leading some of the biggest advertising networks in 193 00:10:40,500 --> 00:10:44,579 Justin Graham: the world and are very proud to be representing that from Australia. 194 00:10:44,580 --> 00:10:46,739 Justin Graham: So it's great to see, and that only makes the 195 00:10:46,740 --> 00:10:50,010 Justin Graham: industry better. It makes M&C Saatchi better when you're looking 196 00:10:50,010 --> 00:10:53,190 Justin Graham: at your peers doing very well, and it's exciting around 197 00:10:53,190 --> 00:10:54,600 Justin Graham: what the next year ahead would look like. 198 00:10:55,410 --> 00:10:58,139 Sean Aylmer: I have to ask you, Justin, what's your favourite ever campaign? 199 00:10:58,139 --> 00:11:00,089 Sean Aylmer: I mean, let's say the favourite ever campaign you've worked on, 200 00:11:00,090 --> 00:11:02,490 Sean Aylmer: or maybe that's going to narrow it too much, but 201 00:11:02,490 --> 00:11:05,429 Sean Aylmer: just give me a taste of one of your favourites. 202 00:11:05,999 --> 00:11:10,110 Justin Graham: Favourite campaign I ever worked on. The first campaign campaign 203 00:11:10,110 --> 00:11:13,470 Justin Graham: I ever worked on was Bundaberg Rum in Australia. 204 00:11:13,530 --> 00:11:13,980 Sean Aylmer: Oh, wow. 205 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:16,199 Justin Graham: It's sort a throwback there, which at the time was 206 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:19,199 Justin Graham: doing phenomenally well and still is. And I just thought 207 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:22,679 Justin Graham: that was fascinating around something that was so uniquely Australian 208 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:27,328 Justin Graham: with the Bundy Bear and the representation that took across 209 00:11:27,330 --> 00:11:31,440 Justin Graham: regional Australia in particular. And that was a campaign that 210 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:34,649 Justin Graham: didn't translate so well in the world stage. But I 211 00:11:34,650 --> 00:11:36,719 Justin Graham: always look very fondly back on that and think I 212 00:11:36,719 --> 00:11:40,500 Justin Graham: learned a lot about how to embed brands and culture, and 213 00:11:40,679 --> 00:11:44,460 Justin Graham: Diageo a phenomenal marketing company. I've been very fortunate to 214 00:11:44,460 --> 00:11:46,559 Justin Graham: work on some great brands around the world. And more 215 00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:51,208 Justin Graham: recently, the Tourism Australia work. We've done some fantastic campaigns, 216 00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:54,659 Justin Graham: both pre pandemic as we looked at getting people from 217 00:11:54,660 --> 00:11:57,089 Justin Graham: the UK into Australia, and then post pandemic with the 218 00:11:57,089 --> 00:12:00,449 Justin Graham: recent work we've done with G'Day, where we featured Australian 219 00:12:00,449 --> 00:12:04,980 Justin Graham: actor Rose Byrne and the American actor Will Arnett with 220 00:12:04,980 --> 00:12:07,950 Justin Graham: the help of some animated characters to go and welcome 221 00:12:07,950 --> 00:12:11,670 Justin Graham: Australia back. And that's great nation building work because it's 222 00:12:11,670 --> 00:12:15,540 Justin Graham: creativity that's best and it's out there and it's such 223 00:12:15,540 --> 00:12:17,879 Justin Graham: an important job for the hundreds of thousands of small 224 00:12:17,879 --> 00:12:20,848 Justin Graham: business operators in Australia that rely on that sort of 225 00:12:20,850 --> 00:12:24,780 Justin Graham: communication for inbound tourism. So it's great to work on 226 00:12:24,780 --> 00:12:26,970 Justin Graham: those big campaigns on the world stage. 227 00:12:27,450 --> 00:12:29,310 Sean Aylmer: Justin, thank you for talking to Fear and Greed. 228 00:12:29,759 --> 00:12:30,510 Justin Graham: Thanks very much. 229 00:12:30,719 --> 00:12:34,379 Sean Aylmer: That was Justin Graham, Group CEO at M&C Saatchi Australia 230 00:12:34,379 --> 00:12:37,439 Sean Aylmer: and New Zealand and Global Head of Advertising. This is 231 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:39,990 Sean Aylmer: the Fear and Greed daily interview. Join us every morning 232 00:12:39,990 --> 00:12:42,150 Sean Aylmer: for the full episode of Fear and Greed, Australia's most 233 00:12:42,150 --> 00:12:45,659 Sean Aylmer: popular business podcast. I'm Sean Aylmer. Enjoy your day.