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Speaker 1: Yeah, but let's talk scams and banks because there's a

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Speaker 1: new campaign launched to protect us, well to at least

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Speaker 1: educate us further about scams. It's called the Fight against

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Speaker 1: Scams Never Stops and a CEO Australian Bankers Association and

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Speaker 1: a good morning, good morning, how are you all right?

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Speaker 1: Thank you? Tell us about the campaign. What do you

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Speaker 1: hope it achieves.

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Speaker 2: Well, we've seen that banks come together to unite in

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Speaker 2: the fight against scams. So whether it's the four major

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Speaker 2: big banks right down to the smallest credit union or

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Speaker 2: building society, we've put together a whole suite of initiatives.

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Speaker 2: One of which we really want customers to know and

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Speaker 2: understand is putting more friction in their payments. So when

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Speaker 2: they transfer money to someone they've never paid before, they

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Speaker 2: are increasingly going to see and some customers will be

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Speaker 2: seeing it already, you know, messages from their bank or

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Speaker 2: their credit union, pain, this might not be cleared this

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Speaker 2: payment for twenty four hours, or are you sure that

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Speaker 2: you want to make this payment? Have you checked that

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Speaker 2: you've got the right account number? Something that just flows

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Speaker 2: it down a bit, which good for some people feel

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Speaker 2: quite inconvenient, but it has been done to protect people

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Speaker 2: and their safety and also give banks the best opportunity

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Speaker 2: to recover the money. If you get off the phone

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Speaker 2: and think, oh, I don't think that was right, and

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Speaker 2: you're ring your bank if it's a number you've never

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Speaker 2: transferred to before, increasingly, it's going to be still in

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Speaker 2: your account and they can freeze or stop the payment

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Speaker 2: if you can get to them in time. So it's

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Speaker 2: an important part. There's no silver bullet. We're up against

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Speaker 2: some of the most sophisticated criminal gangs in the world.

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Speaker 2: Our priority is to stop the scam happening in the

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Speaker 2: first place if it does. If you do end up

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Speaker 2: on a phone call with someone who's trying to panic

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Speaker 2: you into moving your money, you know, letting people know

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Speaker 2: that if you do transfer to the wrong place or

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Speaker 2: something that you get off the phone and don't feel

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Speaker 2: comfortable about, banks are going to hold those payments to

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Speaker 2: give you the best chance of getting that money back.

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Speaker 1: So you get that text, you need to verify with

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Speaker 1: the bank that it's okay or not, but if it

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Speaker 1: is yours, you need to tell them it is.

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Speaker 2: Yes. You'll be getting warnings. It's either a warning or

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Speaker 2: a question that says are you sure this is the

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Speaker 2: right account. Do you really want to do this now?

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Speaker 2: You know, ultimately that's a decision for each customer, and

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Speaker 2: for most people, most of the time it's going to

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Speaker 2: be yes, I'm paying my plumber or a new plumber

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Speaker 2: I've never paid before, and I've checked the number and

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Speaker 2: it's all okay. But sometimes it won't be the right person.

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Speaker 2: It'll be someone that you shouldn't be paying. And hopefully

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Speaker 2: those questions and warnings and delays will help customers to

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Speaker 2: just take a minute, because these scammers, they pray on

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Speaker 2: your emotions, they pray on fear, and they cause you

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Speaker 2: to panic and they know. So that's why banks are

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Speaker 2: putting more friction in the system that you know, if

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Speaker 2: a customer has been you know, tricked basically tricked by

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Speaker 2: a scammer into doing something because they panicked because this

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Speaker 2: scammer was just very convincing about the need to transfer

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Speaker 2: the money quickly, then we're going to slow it down.

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Speaker 2: And it's one way of putting a spoke in the

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Speaker 2: wheels of scammers and the way they do business. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Indeed, now I've been in banks and I've been asked

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Speaker 1: this myself. When you take out a grand or two

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Speaker 1: or three or more close a term deposit or whatever.

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Speaker 1: You get asked what are you going to do with

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Speaker 1: the money. And my first reaction to that the first

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Speaker 1: time was well, that's none of your business, actually, But

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Speaker 1: then people have pointed out to me and it makes sense.

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Speaker 1: It's tellers making sure you're not being scammed, that you're

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Speaker 1: not taking it out because somebody says you need to

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Speaker 1: take it out to pay for I don't know, bitamizing

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Speaker 1: your roof or whatever the case may be.

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Speaker 2: Yes, look, it is a fine line. I think we're

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Speaker 2: all very we're all very private about our financial dealings,

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Speaker 2: and we like to make sure that our financial information

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Speaker 2: is kept very confidential for a very understandable reason. But

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Speaker 2: you know, I think what banks are trying to do

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Speaker 2: is where it's appropriate, where it might help encouraging their staff,

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Speaker 2: whether it's not a call center, whether it's in their

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Speaker 2: fraud teams, or whether it's in a branch, just to

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Speaker 2: ask some prompting questions. Now, most people, I think they're

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Speaker 2: probably going to say none of your business. But if

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Speaker 2: somebody says, oh, well I had a phone call from

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Speaker 2: the fraud team who said I should transfer money, you know,

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Speaker 2: or you know, I've been told I've got outstanding debts

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Speaker 2: with the tax office, you know, and it turns out

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Speaker 2: that none of that's true. Then that's one person that

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Speaker 2: we've helped.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, is the responsibility on the person, though, I

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Speaker 1: mean to what extent will banks recompense if somebody has

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Speaker 1: been scammed?

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Speaker 2: Look, I think the responsibility is shared. It's shared right

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Speaker 2: across the scam chain. So how do you mostly get

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Speaker 2: your scams? They come to use to an SMS, phone

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Speaker 2: call and email. So you know, our telc providers have

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Speaker 2: to make sure they're keeping us as safe as possible.

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Speaker 2: How does the money leave your account? Generally because you've

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Speaker 2: told your bank to move it, and banks need to

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Speaker 2: make sure they're doing everything they can to make sure that,

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Speaker 2: for example, if they've had good information in the past

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Speaker 2: that that account you're trying to transfer to has been

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Speaker 2: associated with a scam, because often it's an account in

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Speaker 2: another bank or it's a crypto platform, then the bank

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Speaker 2: needs to take some responsibility for that. But equally, as customers,

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Speaker 2: we've all got to take a bit of personal responsibility.

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Speaker 2: These scammers are very clever and they do try to

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Speaker 2: panic us, but we've all got to get it in

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Speaker 2: their our heads. Never give you password, never give you pin.

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Speaker 2: As you said earlier, don't let somebody you've never met

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Speaker 2: into your computer. And I think as we see more

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Speaker 2: and more of these, unfortunately scamms, we're all learning. For one,

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Speaker 2: I don't answer a call from a number don't recognize,

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Speaker 2: and I think, well, it's probably a scammer. It's not.

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Speaker 2: If it's a person who needs.

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Speaker 3: To talk to me, they'll leave the man absolutely, and

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Speaker 3: mostly nine out of ten they don't leave a message,

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Speaker 3: So you know, I'm glad I didn't answer. Absolutely, need

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Speaker 3: to be careful, but I think.

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Speaker 2: All parts of the system. If a social media platform

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Speaker 2: is advertising and earning money from an ad for example,

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Speaker 2: for an investment opportunity that's frankly the Dodgy Brothers, then

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Speaker 2: they've got some liability. And the government is putting in

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Speaker 2: place over the next year, I would hope we would

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Speaker 2: see it. They're still drafting legislation that will provide absolute

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Speaker 2: clarity to each part of that chain, and importantly to customers,

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Speaker 2: which says, here is your mandatory obligations, whether you're a

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Speaker 2: telco or a bank or a social media platform. If

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Speaker 2: you don't meet them, then you will be liable to

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Speaker 2: pay your share back to the customer.

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Speaker 1: And all very important in a certainly a critical message

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Speaker 1: to get out to people, particularly because they strike. It

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Speaker 1: always seems to be you're in a rush, you're in

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Speaker 1: a supermarket or whatever. And if it does come up,

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Speaker 1: you get a phone number that reads as if it's

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Speaker 1: your bank, or a text message that has been added

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Speaker 1: to a scring of messages you've had from your bank,

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Speaker 1: because somehow they've got into that and it appears to

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Speaker 1: be your bank not necessarily. Is so very important to

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Speaker 1: double check and check with your bank independently.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, And that's a good example of something which you

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Speaker 2: know that's the telcoast that's letting that message into the thread,

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Speaker 2: and you know somebody got into your family thread. I

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Speaker 2: think you feel that you'd also been violated. But I

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Speaker 2: think the really one of the big important messages at

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Speaker 2: the moment, because there is a bit of a scam

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Speaker 2: or there is a scam that's been doing the rounds

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Speaker 2: that where someone rings them design from the fraud team

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Speaker 2: from your bank, your account is being compromised. You need

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Speaker 2: to move your funds immediately to another account. Your bank

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Speaker 2: will never ever call you unprompted and get you to

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Speaker 2: move funds into another account. Do you just stop and

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Speaker 2: take a moment. If your bank thought your bank your

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Speaker 2: account was been compromised, they'll freeze it and then they'll

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Speaker 2: call you good. I won't ask you to move your money.

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Speaker 2: That's just not something a bank would ever ever do.

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Speaker 2: So if someone rings you and says move your money, quickly,

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Speaker 2: you know it's a scammer. Hang up, all.

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Speaker 1: Right, excellent, while I've got you, just quickly. The Regional

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Speaker 1: Banking Inquiry that was run by the Senate calling for

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Speaker 1: a Code of Conduct Customer Service Code to make some

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Speaker 1: changes recommendations, including branch alternatives for regional areas and regulatory

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Speaker 1: reform potentially service obligation on banks. The Banking Association's response

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Speaker 1: to that was.

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Speaker 2: One, well, we're still working through the recommendations of that inquiry,

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Speaker 2: but I think it is important and I'm not I

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Speaker 2: don't really think the inquiry gave enough recognition of the

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Speaker 2: work that banks do with Australia Post. Australia Post has

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Speaker 2: one of the biggest service footprints in the country, and

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Speaker 2: Australia's banks the largest right through to the smallest, more

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Speaker 2: than eighty banking institutions pay Australia Post to provide banking

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Speaker 2: services there. You know, there's more than three and a

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Speaker 2: half thousand of those, and Australia still has one of

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Speaker 2: the highest number of branches per capita in the OECD.

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Speaker 1: Higher than a number of sometime deal in cash though,

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Speaker 1: I mean that's just ridiculous.

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Speaker 2: Well, again it depends on where you are, but increasingly

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Speaker 2: we are going to see cash being distributed by a

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Speaker 2: broader cross section. Well, it's always been through. You can

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Speaker 2: get it through your bank, you can get it through

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Speaker 2: your post office, you can get it through an ATM,

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Speaker 2: you can get it through through the market. I think

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Speaker 2: the bigger challenge for Australia is for those people who

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Speaker 2: live in quite remote parts of Australia, you know, don't

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Speaker 2: have necessarily a supermarket in town, or don't necessarily have

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Speaker 2: a post office. That's much tougher and I will certainly

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Speaker 2: be looking at those recommendations and talking to government about

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Speaker 2: what is a reasonable way for us at a time.

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Speaker 2: I think the big challenge at the moment is while

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Speaker 2: there are still many Australians who want or need to

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Speaker 2: use cash, for most Australians, they are using less and

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Speaker 2: less and less of it, so getting it to these

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Speaker 2: far finn places is becoming more expensive, more difficult. Banks

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Speaker 2: don't transport it. Companies like armagadd and they're struggling this

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Speaker 2: day or float. So it's a challenge and particularly we're

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Speaker 2: not alone. It's happening around the world, but we're a

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Speaker 2: bit unique in that there aren't many countries trying to

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Speaker 2: service the geography that we do in Australia.

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Speaker 1: And ably thank you for your time this morning. Thank

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Speaker 1: you CE Australian Banking Association,