WEBVTT - Small steps for Hannah: Sue and Lloyd Clarke Pt.2 0:00:01.960 --> 0:00:04.960 The public has had a long held fascination with detectives. 0:00:05.440 --> 0:00:07.840 Detective sy a side of life the average person is 0:00:07.920 --> 0:00:11.160 never exposed to. I spent thirty four years as a cop. 0:00:11.640 --> 0:00:14.080 For twenty five of those years I was catching killers. 0:00:14.480 --> 0:00:16.280 That's what I did for a living. I was a 0:00:16.280 --> 0:00:20.600 homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead, 0:00:20.640 --> 0:00:23.200 I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated. 0:00:23.880 --> 0:00:26.480 The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories 0:00:26.480 --> 0:00:28.840 from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw 0:00:28.880 --> 0:00:31.520 and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some 0:00:31.640 --> 0:00:34.680 of the content and language might be confronting. That's because 0:00:34.720 --> 0:00:37.720 no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged. 0:00:38.200 --> 0:00:40.440 Join me now as I take you into this world. 0:00:45.920 --> 0:00:47.760 Welcome back to Part two of Them, A Chat with 0:00:47.880 --> 0:00:50.600 Sue and Lloyd Clark. They're the parents of Hannah Clark 0:00:51.000 --> 0:00:55.040 and the grandparents of Aliyah six years old, Leyana four 0:00:55.120 --> 0:00:57.920 years old, and Trey three years old, who are all 0:00:58.000 --> 0:01:01.280 murdered in February twenty twenty in a crime that shocked 0:01:01.280 --> 0:01:03.760 the nation when they were doused in petrol and set 0:01:03.760 --> 0:01:07.080 a light in their vehicle by Roan Baxter. Hannah's husband 0:01:07.160 --> 0:01:11.000 and the father of the children. Guys, welcome, Welcome back 0:01:11.319 --> 0:01:11.839 Part two. 0:01:12.959 --> 0:01:13.440 Ready to go. 0:01:13.680 --> 0:01:20.000 Yep, I'm glad you guys are. It's pretty heavy subject 0:01:20.040 --> 0:01:26.600 that we're talking about, and I apologize that, yeah, reliving it, 0:01:26.840 --> 0:01:30.160 but no, it's it's not a problem. The things that 0:01:30.160 --> 0:01:32.000 we're going to talk about in part two, I think 0:01:32.240 --> 0:01:36.120 of vital importance and making sure if in any way 0:01:36.160 --> 0:01:40.000 we can prevent this type of thing happening. We left 0:01:40.319 --> 0:01:43.440 left part one. When you've been informed, you found out 0:01:43.440 --> 0:01:47.760 that what had happened to Hannah and the children. Talk 0:01:47.840 --> 0:01:50.080 us through the next forty eight hours. 0:01:51.760 --> 0:01:52.720 We were numb. 0:01:53.000 --> 0:01:57.760 I think after Hannah finally passed, she hung on till 0:01:57.760 --> 0:02:01.400 a brother came back from the mines, had to ring 0:02:01.480 --> 0:02:05.560 him and get him flowing back home, and we said 0:02:05.560 --> 0:02:09.200 goodbye to our and then we were just numb. I 0:02:09.240 --> 0:02:11.639 think in a bit of a days. It had been 0:02:11.680 --> 0:02:15.320 one hell of a long day and we got home 0:02:16.120 --> 0:02:19.240 and I know, for some reason we all decided, we 0:02:19.240 --> 0:02:22.000 had Natt and Stacy with us, that we would go 0:02:22.080 --> 0:02:26.920 down to the corner just to see what was there 0:02:26.960 --> 0:02:31.040 the flowers. And as we were walking down, a storming 0:02:31.639 --> 0:02:34.240 and we had a bit of a chuckle. That was 0:02:34.280 --> 0:02:35.920 having to telling the kids to get to bed. 0:02:36.000 --> 0:02:36.399 He left. 0:02:37.360 --> 0:02:39.480 She's still controlling, he's still telling that. 0:02:39.680 --> 0:02:44.280 They're still playing up at bedtime. And then the next morning, 0:02:44.560 --> 0:02:48.440 I think, well, we didn't sleep, neither of us slept 0:02:48.480 --> 0:02:51.640 at wink. I called you in to bed with Alia's 0:02:51.639 --> 0:02:56.839 favorite little elephant. And next morning we got up, took 0:02:56.880 --> 0:02:59.480 the dogs and went for walk through the bush't we? 0:03:00.600 --> 0:03:03.960 And that same all that day so rain. That night, 0:03:04.040 --> 0:03:06.920 a big storm came through. It was just a typical 0:03:07.600 --> 0:03:12.079 February weather up here are humored, sticky, And the next 0:03:12.160 --> 0:03:15.320 day there's just all these yellow butterflies everywhere, everywhere, just 0:03:15.400 --> 0:03:19.880 butterflies everywhere. And that's why we've got the butterflies on 0:03:19.919 --> 0:03:22.880 the emblem as well, Johannah's feet and the butterflies. So 0:03:22.960 --> 0:03:24.800 I thought, well, you know, it's it's a bit of 0:03:24.800 --> 0:03:25.959 a sign sort of thing. 0:03:25.880 --> 0:03:26.320 It is. 0:03:27.080 --> 0:03:29.840 But yeah, for those next I suppose the next couple 0:03:29.840 --> 0:03:32.280 of months we were just numb. We didn't know what 0:03:32.360 --> 0:03:35.880 to do, where to go. And then next thing we was. 0:03:35.880 --> 0:03:37.560 Sort of we had these feet we didn't know what 0:03:37.640 --> 0:03:41.360 to do with. And icee you when someone's going to die, 0:03:41.400 --> 0:03:44.080 they give you a handprint on that person to keep well. 0:03:44.160 --> 0:03:46.640 The only thing that was left of hand it was 0:03:46.640 --> 0:03:49.080 the sales of a feet because she'd had joggers on 0:03:49.200 --> 0:03:54.280 so they didn't get burnt. So we were given her footprints. 0:03:54.440 --> 0:03:59.960 And I can't remember how long after the ac couple 0:04:00.520 --> 0:04:03.200 current affair was wanted us to do an interview, and 0:04:03.240 --> 0:04:04.920 they somehow I got ahold of Nat and that said 0:04:05.320 --> 0:04:07.320 we'll go do this interview, you know, for a current 0:04:07.360 --> 0:04:10.960 affair with Tracy and I just we didn't really want 0:04:11.000 --> 0:04:14.280 to do it, so and I thought, really, so we're 0:04:14.280 --> 0:04:17.680 getting I didn't want to. I refused it first, Yes, 0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:22.000 and the police were still looking after us. The detectors, 0:04:22.080 --> 0:04:26.600 they're like our personal bodyguards, and they were just with us. Now. 0:04:26.720 --> 0:04:28.800 Next morning they just turned up, are okay, what can 0:04:28.800 --> 0:04:31.200 we do? Can we get you anything? So they were 0:04:31.240 --> 0:04:36.240 wonderful and we've now formed really good friendships with tom 0:04:36.240 --> 0:04:39.559 O and Shan. We keep in touch all the time. 0:04:40.680 --> 0:04:44.480 And they were driving us too for the interview. It 0:04:44.640 --> 0:04:47.880 was set up in a private house somewhere they'd airbnb one. 0:04:48.000 --> 0:04:51.360 So we're given the location and as I'm walking out, 0:04:51.400 --> 0:04:54.240 I said, I just want to grab these I want 0:04:54.720 --> 0:04:57.919 the nation to know that's all we've got left of Hannah. 0:04:59.320 --> 0:05:04.039 Footprints prince. Yeah, and so we did the interview. I 0:05:04.200 --> 0:05:09.640 showed the world her feet. You know, we come home 0:05:09.680 --> 0:05:11.560 after that and I suppose to having a few drinks. 0:05:11.600 --> 0:05:14.800 We're sitting around and we're while we're there, we're talking 0:05:14.880 --> 0:05:18.279 to lew and Simon about you know that was friends, 0:05:19.040 --> 0:05:22.400 about maybe starting a foundation, you know, maybe we should 0:05:22.480 --> 0:05:25.960 do education. Let's look at all this. So then that's 0:05:25.960 --> 0:05:28.600 when we started getting the idea deers around, you know, 0:05:28.760 --> 0:05:32.320 sort of footprints. Well, we don't know what we're doing. 0:05:32.400 --> 0:05:36.320 We'll just do small steps. Let's do small steps for 0:05:36.480 --> 0:05:38.960 Hannah and make it a four for the four of them. 0:05:39.240 --> 0:05:41.000 So that's how that sort of all came about, you know, 0:05:41.080 --> 0:05:44.680 the foundation, the symbol, and then we put the yellow butterflies. 0:05:44.680 --> 0:05:46.359 So we got the feet for Hannah, and the yellow 0:05:46.360 --> 0:05:47.640 butterflies are the kids. 0:05:48.440 --> 0:05:51.280 Three are supposed to be teal because teal was her 0:05:51.279 --> 0:05:53.960 favorite color, and the pink because she was forbidden to 0:05:53.960 --> 0:05:54.440 wear pink. 0:05:56.880 --> 0:06:00.559 So symbolic, so symbolic, and I think it's that really 0:06:00.920 --> 0:06:04.279 brings home that that's what you're left of Hannah the prince. 0:06:04.400 --> 0:06:07.560 And then when you looked at too in age Hannah 0:06:07.760 --> 0:06:13.000 Aliyah Leana Trey Holt, so that became our our I'm 0:06:13.040 --> 0:06:15.479 saying that you had a wholt domestic violence. Well, and 0:06:15.480 --> 0:06:17.960 I'd like to say it be Holt law, not Hannah's law, 0:06:18.200 --> 0:06:22.440 because everyone knows Hannah, but we're forgetting the kids. Yeah, 0:06:22.480 --> 0:06:23.680 so we called the Holt law. 0:06:24.600 --> 0:06:28.839 Okay, isn't that It's got Well, I understand your thought 0:06:28.880 --> 0:06:32.320 process there. So when you said you waited until Nathan 0:06:32.400 --> 0:06:35.799 came down from the minds for Hannah to say goodbye, 0:06:35.839 --> 0:06:38.080 did you get to speak to her after the event? 0:06:38.200 --> 0:06:41.320 Was she they had a heavily sedated Yeah, we never got. 0:06:41.440 --> 0:06:43.480 I spoke to her, but she didn't respond. 0:06:44.560 --> 0:06:46.120 All right, So. 0:06:47.640 --> 0:06:50.080 You've got to move forward. I think a couple of 0:06:50.080 --> 0:06:53.640 things that really touched me was the vigil the community. 0:06:54.360 --> 0:07:00.000 The vigil there at the Parkland that a thousand people there. 0:07:00.080 --> 0:07:02.640 You were shocked. Did you see it? Did you get 0:07:02.640 --> 0:07:05.560 a sense of what was happening and involved in it? 0:07:05.560 --> 0:07:07.719 It was just crazy. We got to knock at the 0:07:07.960 --> 0:07:13.400 front door, and he's the mayor and his wife and 0:07:13.400 --> 0:07:19.240 our local counselor and police commissioner and on our door. 0:07:19.600 --> 0:07:23.360 We never spent time with people like that, you know, 0:07:23.480 --> 0:07:26.320 we were normal people, and we let them into our 0:07:26.320 --> 0:07:28.920 home home, a little house, and they said we would 0:07:29.000 --> 0:07:32.360 like to do this. We feel the community needs it 0:07:32.400 --> 0:07:37.320 and would like it. And we were overwhelmed that people 0:07:37.320 --> 0:07:41.040 felt like that, like we'd always been nobody's you know, 0:07:41.080 --> 0:07:43.520 and the thought that people wanted to support us was lovely. 0:07:44.320 --> 0:07:47.000 The flowers were starting to and teddy bears and that 0:07:47.120 --> 0:07:51.080 were starting to pile up on the corner. So the counselor, 0:07:51.480 --> 0:07:53.960 Fiota cuming Ham had said, well, I think we will 0:07:54.080 --> 0:07:57.080 move it down to Bill Hewett Park and people can 0:07:57.200 --> 0:08:01.200 leave their gifts and thoughts there because it's just spilling 0:08:01.240 --> 0:08:03.680 out everywhere. So that's when they said, well, if you'd like, 0:08:03.880 --> 0:08:08.160 we'd like to organize a vigil, you know, and you 0:08:08.240 --> 0:08:09.920 guys don't have to do I think we'll organize it 0:08:10.000 --> 0:08:12.240 all and put the word out. But we were just 0:08:12.280 --> 0:08:16.800 so touched. There was so many people I suppose we'd 0:08:16.880 --> 0:08:20.480 lost touch with over the years because we went our 0:08:20.560 --> 0:08:23.640 separate ways. And it was mainly the people that I 0:08:23.760 --> 0:08:26.680 met from when I moved to Brisbane in nineteen eighty 0:08:27.040 --> 0:08:29.920 to come down here and play football, and I think 0:08:29.960 --> 0:08:33.720 we all formed a very strong bond back there then, 0:08:33.840 --> 0:08:36.400 and they were forever friends, and they sort of friends 0:08:36.400 --> 0:08:39.840 that you don't see for six months, twelve months, ten years, 0:08:39.920 --> 0:08:41.920 but next time you see them, you can start that 0:08:42.000 --> 0:08:45.560 conversation as if it was twenty years ago, sitting in 0:08:45.559 --> 0:08:48.680 the pub having it a good old chat. We never 0:08:48.720 --> 0:08:53.560 lost touch in that respect. So everyone just banned around 0:08:53.600 --> 0:08:56.800 Hannah's friends. There were so many people that were there, 0:08:56.840 --> 0:08:57.000 you know. 0:08:57.040 --> 0:09:00.160 That was We had old school friends turn up. They 0:09:00.160 --> 0:09:02.080 were living on the other side of Brisbane. It was 0:09:02.160 --> 0:09:02.840 just amazing. 0:09:03.640 --> 0:09:06.480 And did that that help you guys process? 0:09:07.600 --> 0:09:08.040 I don't know. 0:09:08.080 --> 0:09:10.400 I think I was a nub to be honest. It 0:09:10.520 --> 0:09:14.240 was lovely to see that and feel the support, But 0:09:14.360 --> 0:09:17.920 I don't know in all honesty if it helped at 0:09:17.960 --> 0:09:19.480 the time, I didn't not help. 0:09:20.080 --> 0:09:22.800 Yeah, I couldn't say whether yeah, it made me feel 0:09:22.840 --> 0:09:26.040 stronger or that. But it was just lovely to see 0:09:26.440 --> 0:09:30.880 and people came from to Womba, yes, came down. But 0:09:30.920 --> 0:09:34.120 then again we started getting these stories. You know, we 0:09:34.200 --> 0:09:37.160 didn't need to hear them at that time. Out they're 0:09:37.240 --> 0:09:41.160 dramas their problem and I really love you know, I'm 0:09:41.160 --> 0:09:43.400 still trying to process my own grief here. How can 0:09:43.440 --> 0:09:46.440 I but we're lucky tom O and Shane were there. 0:09:46.600 --> 0:09:48.360 They would see this and they'd sort of okay, we're 0:09:48.360 --> 0:09:50.000 going to take you over here. 0:09:49.360 --> 0:09:52.880 When there's a tragedy of the magnitude that what you 0:09:52.920 --> 0:09:56.480 guys suffered Pannah and the children, people quite don't often 0:09:56.559 --> 0:09:58.720 know how to deal with it and deal with what 0:09:58.880 --> 0:10:01.480 to say. Like I I've had people that have had 0:10:01.640 --> 0:10:05.120 situations not this similar to what you've gone through, and 0:10:05.160 --> 0:10:07.800 people avoid them on the street, people that because they 0:10:07.840 --> 0:10:09.960 don't know what to say. Oh, there's Lloyd and Sue. 0:10:09.960 --> 0:10:12.320 What do we I'm just avoid. 0:10:12.120 --> 0:10:14.600 We've had had that a lot. I've had people come 0:10:14.679 --> 0:10:17.640 up to me three years later and say I've met 0:10:17.679 --> 0:10:20.680 them somewhere. You said, oh yeah. I said, oh look, 0:10:20.760 --> 0:10:22.839 I really wanted to call you, but I didn't know 0:10:22.880 --> 0:10:25.520 what to say, so we had to say was hello, Yeah, 0:10:25.520 --> 0:10:28.440 I said, you know, I'm happy, you know, like if 0:10:28.480 --> 0:10:30.640 I take your call or leave a message and I'll 0:10:30.679 --> 0:10:32.959 call you back now when I can. So basically from 0:10:32.960 --> 0:10:35.080 that day, I think I put my phone on silent 0:10:35.480 --> 0:10:37.640 and I just look at down there and go, oh, yeah, okay, 0:10:37.640 --> 0:10:39.760 I'll ring that person. I know they're okay, ring them 0:10:39.760 --> 0:10:41.439 didn't know that number. Let it go. They left a 0:10:41.480 --> 0:10:42.880 message I'd get back to them. 0:10:42.960 --> 0:10:47.079 And quite often people in your situations, or one person particularly, 0:10:47.080 --> 0:10:49.280 said that the best thing someone could say to me 0:10:49.440 --> 0:10:51.839 was just not trying to make you feel better by 0:10:51.920 --> 0:10:55.040 wise words, because there's no just thinking of you, yes, 0:10:55.200 --> 0:10:56.360 and give you a cuddle. 0:10:56.520 --> 0:10:56.720 Yeah. 0:10:57.000 --> 0:11:00.680 One of the girls I worked with rang me the 0:11:00.720 --> 0:11:05.240 next morning and all she said was f love. I've 0:11:05.280 --> 0:11:09.200 got no words and it was just so true, and 0:11:09.240 --> 0:11:10.440 I said I don't either. 0:11:11.360 --> 0:11:15.120 Yeah, but something as simple as that, it's profound in 0:11:15.160 --> 0:11:16.200 the simplicity of it. 0:11:16.360 --> 0:11:17.640 Yeah. 0:11:17.679 --> 0:11:21.160 There was a park named Hannah's Place. The portion in 0:11:21.160 --> 0:11:24.080 the park, yes, is that? Does that feel nice for 0:11:24.160 --> 0:11:26.160 you to know that hasn't been forgotten? 0:11:26.280 --> 0:11:29.719 We go up on the nineteenth feb every year and 0:11:29.880 --> 0:11:32.080 we go up on Hannah's birthday and have a drink. 0:11:32.280 --> 0:11:32.880 It's nice. 0:11:33.720 --> 0:11:35.600 I mean the council just did that off the bat 0:11:35.640 --> 0:11:38.200 and said, look, we're going to do this little bench 0:11:38.640 --> 0:11:41.720 in the Bill Hue Park and little cover so people 0:11:41.720 --> 0:11:45.280 can just come sit, talk, reflect whether they think about 0:11:45.280 --> 0:11:48.080 Hannah orhere they think about someone else. And then they 0:11:48.160 --> 0:11:51.560 put the sign up Hannah's Place, And then what happened, 0:11:52.000 --> 0:11:54.240 just so people will know down the track you know 0:11:54.280 --> 0:11:56.920 who hell it was. But I don't think a lot 0:11:56.920 --> 0:11:58.000 of people will forget her. 0:11:58.600 --> 0:12:03.920 No, I'm sure that it won't be the case. So 0:12:04.120 --> 0:12:06.559 small steps for Hannah. What's the aims and goals of 0:12:07.280 --> 0:12:08.160 that group to. 0:12:08.200 --> 0:12:13.600 Get course of control? Our Lord's standalone laws in every 0:12:13.640 --> 0:12:19.480 state would be wonderful. And education and saving women Hannah 0:12:19.520 --> 0:12:22.199 wanted to. She was in the process of applied to 0:12:22.240 --> 0:12:25.079 the police force when she was killed, because she said, 0:12:25.600 --> 0:12:28.360 I understand it. I can help women like myself. So 0:12:28.440 --> 0:12:31.280 that's one of our goals. She's not here to do it. 0:12:31.640 --> 0:12:34.440 So we want to save women. But education is our 0:12:34.520 --> 0:12:35.240 big thing now. 0:12:35.880 --> 0:12:38.760 I think it's got to be the twofold And sometimes 0:12:38.760 --> 0:12:43.520 I get concerned when there's a crime domestic violence. We're 0:12:43.559 --> 0:12:46.080 talking here and the attitude is, Okay, well, we're going 0:12:46.160 --> 0:12:48.200 to make the laws tougher. We're going to do this, 0:12:48.240 --> 0:12:49.680 We're going to do that. But it's got to be 0:12:49.720 --> 0:12:53.040 a multi layered approach. I think to make a difference. 0:12:53.679 --> 0:12:56.959 Let's talk about coercive control. Because I talked about when 0:12:57.000 --> 0:12:59.839 we met at that function. One of the things I 0:13:00.040 --> 0:13:01.840 walked away inspired and I don't know if you are 0:13:01.840 --> 0:13:05.080 steering the politicians or the attorney generals to me. But 0:13:05.440 --> 0:13:08.280 I came back with there thinking one hundred percent this 0:13:08.360 --> 0:13:10.760 has to be done. And I've gone on about coercive 0:13:10.800 --> 0:13:13.760 controls in a lot of different podcasts of different forums 0:13:14.240 --> 0:13:17.120 because it just makes sense to me. Now, for those 0:13:17.160 --> 0:13:20.319 that don't know what coercive control what we're talking about here, 0:13:20.360 --> 0:13:25.080 coercive control laws, I'll refer back to the police just 0:13:25.120 --> 0:13:27.800 to explain it. We'll dumb it down. In my day 0:13:27.800 --> 0:13:30.679 in the police, without coercive control, we get called to 0:13:30.720 --> 0:13:34.480 a domestic and if you get called to too many domestics, 0:13:34.160 --> 0:13:38.280 what's happened here? Well, nothing will. The neighbor's called, there's 0:13:38.280 --> 0:13:40.959 a disturbance, invariably, and this is a bad old days. 0:13:40.960 --> 0:13:44.320 It's well, you'd look to the woman, and the woman 0:13:44.440 --> 0:13:46.520 say no, I'm fine, even though you can tell that 0:13:46.600 --> 0:13:50.959 she's scared. But the husband's standing right there. We improved 0:13:51.080 --> 0:13:54.480 policing to domestic type of assaults or of family violence 0:13:54.840 --> 0:13:56.840 to the point where okay, we've got the power of 0:13:56.840 --> 0:13:59.800 the aviva. We'll take our that break, not a family 0:14:00.360 --> 0:14:04.360 violence order or whatever the thing that Hannah took out 0:14:05.040 --> 0:14:08.679 that helps to a degree, but it doesn't circumvent it. 0:14:09.160 --> 0:14:11.640 And police we look at things very black and white. 0:14:12.440 --> 0:14:15.120 If there's no assault, like if I'm talking to I 0:14:15.240 --> 0:14:18.080 turn up at your place, there's Lloyd and Sue. I 0:14:18.120 --> 0:14:21.280 haven't been assaulted, but he's done this, done that. Well, 0:14:21.280 --> 0:14:25.280 it's not really legislation for it. Cowersive control is making 0:14:25.320 --> 0:14:28.560 it a law, a law that can be acted upon 0:14:28.880 --> 0:14:32.040 about the behavior and control of a person in an 0:14:32.040 --> 0:14:36.200 intimate relationship. I think it's a no brainer now. It 0:14:36.280 --> 0:14:39.320 was passed in parliament here in Queensland on sixth of March, 0:14:40.000 --> 0:14:44.000 and in New South Wales it's been flagged in parliament there. 0:14:44.600 --> 0:14:48.120 I think it's a great step. And would you guys 0:14:48.160 --> 0:14:51.000 agree that powers like that could have made a difference 0:14:51.040 --> 0:14:52.080 in Hannah's situation? 0:14:52.560 --> 0:14:55.480 Oh definitely. Well, for once she would have realized it 0:14:55.520 --> 0:14:59.400 was actually a crime more domestic violence being committed against her. Ye, 0:15:00.280 --> 0:15:02.200 so I think she may have looked at things differently, 0:15:02.560 --> 0:15:05.000 probably acted earlier quicker. 0:15:07.160 --> 0:15:08.680 Like we were saying, with the A v O, d 0:15:08.760 --> 0:15:10.760 v as whatever you want to call them. You know 0:15:10.920 --> 0:15:13.160 they're just a bit of paper. How does that stop 0:15:13.200 --> 0:15:15.680 someone from Okay, you're it says Oh, you're not allowed 0:15:15.680 --> 0:15:17.040 to go within a kilometer. 0:15:17.120 --> 0:15:19.920 And when you're talking in this idiot. 0:15:19.560 --> 0:15:21.000 That means nothing to him. 0:15:21.040 --> 0:15:23.400 Yeah, he's not going to worry about that. 0:15:24.520 --> 0:15:26.880 So you know, this is where I think we spoke 0:15:26.920 --> 0:15:31.680 earlier the other day about it, you know, monitoring. Okay, 0:15:31.920 --> 0:15:34.720 we've got to go down that path. Definitely, nationally a 0:15:34.760 --> 0:15:41.080 register everyone who does a dvo or whatever, they need 0:15:41.120 --> 0:15:44.760 to be registered, so nationally they know that they've had 0:15:44.760 --> 0:15:47.800 a dvo or put a dvo on them. Then also 0:15:48.080 --> 0:15:50.960 they need to do a program a perpetrate. 0:15:51.000 --> 0:15:53.320 Okay, I don't want to forget these points, because they're 0:15:53.360 --> 0:15:56.040 all very valid points I want to break breakdown. 0:15:56.400 --> 0:15:58.880 Won't that make it a bit easier to follow them, 0:15:58.920 --> 0:16:01.760 to know where they're at if they are getting too close? 0:16:02.600 --> 0:16:05.080 Especially in Hannah's case, we would have known that he 0:16:05.200 --> 0:16:06.320 was hiding beside the house. 0:16:06.720 --> 0:16:09.080 Let's get on our soapbox here and hopefully people are 0:16:09.080 --> 0:16:12.200 listening to the podcast. Like an ankle bracelet, how would 0:16:12.200 --> 0:16:15.560 that make a difference. I just in this day and 0:16:15.600 --> 0:16:18.120 age of technology the way it is, I, for the 0:16:18.200 --> 0:16:21.760 life of me don't understand why that's not implemented asap, 0:16:22.200 --> 0:16:23.160 And it. 0:16:23.200 --> 0:16:24.720 Could be something out there. But it could be like 0:16:24.760 --> 0:16:25.200 an app. 0:16:26.200 --> 0:16:28.680 Well, we could do it during COVID, couldn't We could 0:16:28.680 --> 0:16:32.000 track everyone the movements during COVID, and that was everyone. 0:16:32.480 --> 0:16:36.000 Why can't we have a Okay, there's a domestic violent situation. 0:16:36.440 --> 0:16:39.000 Someone gets an ankle bracelet put onto them, because that's 0:16:39.040 --> 0:16:42.880 the person that's rowan. In the case case of Hannah, 0:16:43.120 --> 0:16:46.520 if he comes within five kilometers or make it ten kilometers, 0:16:47.520 --> 0:16:52.040 alarms go off, police are notified. Hannah's no theifire, and 0:16:52.240 --> 0:16:54.320 all of a sudden she can live her life in 0:16:54.400 --> 0:16:57.600 peace knowing that she's safe in that he's not close by. Okay, 0:16:57.720 --> 0:16:59.840 people say, but they could cut the ankle bracelet off 0:17:00.080 --> 0:17:03.240 the moment that's cut off the alarm game and has notified. 0:17:03.520 --> 0:17:06.280 So there's all these protocols in place. To me, it 0:17:06.520 --> 0:17:08.800 just seems like a no brainer. And what are the 0:17:08.880 --> 0:17:12.159 arguments not invasion of privacy or this or that. I 0:17:12.200 --> 0:17:15.000 don't see it. They've only got the ankle bracelet on 0:17:15.080 --> 0:17:17.760 them because they're repeat offenders or they've been more and 0:17:17.760 --> 0:17:20.880 they've done it again and it could circumven it. Can 0:17:20.920 --> 0:17:24.320 anyone in this room find the problem at all? 0:17:24.720 --> 0:17:28.280 I definitely not, you know, I actually seem like a 0:17:28.280 --> 0:17:29.160 little spike or a. 0:17:29.119 --> 0:17:31.760 Shock like the barking dot. 0:17:32.400 --> 0:17:34.160 Why not you know, if they come within that class, 0:17:34.160 --> 0:17:35.720 they get a bit of a shock. Hang on your 0:17:35.920 --> 0:17:37.280 step back now, No, but. 0:17:37.200 --> 0:17:38.879 I think it would save lives. 0:17:40.520 --> 0:17:43.960 One hundred percent would save lives. And like, why can't 0:17:43.960 --> 0:17:46.000 we talk about we're going to get tough, We're going 0:17:46.000 --> 0:17:48.080 to do this, We're going to do that. I understand 0:17:48.080 --> 0:17:50.439 that tighten up the bail laws, make it so people 0:17:50.440 --> 0:17:53.240 don't get a chance. But in the conversations we had 0:17:53.240 --> 0:17:56.120 the other day, it was about everyone deserves a chance. Yeah, 0:17:56.119 --> 0:17:58.439 we'll give them one chance. But if they fail on 0:17:58.480 --> 0:18:01.720 that chance, here's your bracelet, idiot, and you come within 0:18:01.800 --> 0:18:05.640 five kilometers of the person that's at risk, you're going 0:18:05.680 --> 0:18:06.080 to jail. 0:18:06.359 --> 0:18:06.600 Yep. 0:18:06.840 --> 0:18:10.960 I like that. And it's a register, yeah, national register. 0:18:11.119 --> 0:18:14.879 On the register thing. And I often have this conversation 0:18:15.040 --> 0:18:19.000 with sex offenders and that different type of situation. But 0:18:19.080 --> 0:18:22.359 let's do it for domestic violence register. People say it's 0:18:22.359 --> 0:18:25.879 an invasion of privacy. Okay, why don't we have it 0:18:25.960 --> 0:18:30.000 like this? So I've never been charged with domestic violence, 0:18:30.040 --> 0:18:32.600 you haven't been charged with domestic violence. I'm happy to 0:18:32.640 --> 0:18:35.240 go on the register. If I happen to be out 0:18:35.720 --> 0:18:39.200 dating someone or meeting someone, can I check whether you're 0:18:39.200 --> 0:18:41.840 on the register? Yeah, you can check. Here's my name. 0:18:41.880 --> 0:18:44.399 I'm on the register. So it's the idiots that have 0:18:44.520 --> 0:18:47.520 got these charges won't be on the register. So it's 0:18:47.560 --> 0:18:50.760 not the invasion of anyone. We flip it a little bit. 0:18:50.840 --> 0:18:53.720 It's a voluntary it's voluntary. So I'm happy to go 0:18:53.840 --> 0:18:55.840 on the register because I haven't got a charge. So 0:18:55.840 --> 0:18:58.640 if anyone wants to check me out, Gary jubiln blah 0:18:58.680 --> 0:19:01.760 blah blah, No is why can't we do that? 0:19:02.119 --> 0:19:02.880 Yeah? Exactly. 0:19:04.680 --> 0:19:07.159 To me, that seems like a simple solution and we 0:19:07.359 --> 0:19:10.240 circumvent all this. It's an invasion of privacy and everyone's 0:19:10.240 --> 0:19:12.879 got to forget that. I volunteer to go on the 0:19:12.920 --> 0:19:19.639 register so anyone can contact me little things like that. Now, Education, again, 0:19:20.000 --> 0:19:22.000 I keep repeating this because I've seen it too many 0:19:22.000 --> 0:19:24.600 times over my career that if something's going wrong with 0:19:24.640 --> 0:19:26.280 a crime, we're going to get tough on this and 0:19:26.280 --> 0:19:28.720 we're going to you know, we're mandatory sentence, We're going 0:19:28.720 --> 0:19:33.760 to do this. We need to educate people about domestic violence, 0:19:33.840 --> 0:19:37.119 about coercive control. We need to call people out on 0:19:37.160 --> 0:19:39.000 them and it needs to start at a young young 0:19:39.040 --> 0:19:42.119 age all the way through. What's your thoughts on that. 0:19:42.920 --> 0:19:46.840 Well, we're now well small steps, I should say. We've 0:19:46.840 --> 0:19:50.080 got two brilliant people who are tackling it on two 0:19:50.160 --> 0:19:54.240 different aspects. One's the whole program Dave Kramer, who used 0:19:54.240 --> 0:19:59.000 to train with Hannah. He's now a behavioral specialist scientist, 0:20:00.200 --> 0:20:04.200 and he's doing one for the children, so high school 0:20:04.240 --> 0:20:07.440 aged children. At the moment, we're still and it's taken 0:20:07.480 --> 0:20:09.800 a while because we want to get it right. Because 0:20:10.160 --> 0:20:13.479 we're talking children here and they're in our future. We 0:20:13.520 --> 0:20:17.399 want them to behave properly in relationships. They need to 0:20:17.520 --> 0:20:21.879 learn how to behave properly and break up properly. So 0:20:22.240 --> 0:20:26.040 days is just get ready to do another pilot and 0:20:26.080 --> 0:20:26.800 put it out there. 0:20:26.840 --> 0:20:29.639 So he's going under the schools in the school. 0:20:29.480 --> 0:20:32.360 Something Manfield up here in Queensland. He's the owner. Mansiell's 0:20:32.359 --> 0:20:34.280 got them lined up to do the next pilot and 0:20:34.320 --> 0:20:36.600 then we should be right to just start rolling it out. 0:20:36.760 --> 0:20:40.840 However he can know how often he can. He's got 0:20:40.960 --> 0:20:43.840 the work to do. But with both programs, we don't 0:20:43.880 --> 0:20:45.680 want to franchise it. We don't want to just go 0:20:45.720 --> 0:20:48.320 out there push bush bush. We want it delivered properly 0:20:48.720 --> 0:20:52.160 and quietly. The other one is Michael. 0:20:52.760 --> 0:20:59.840