1 00:00:01,960 --> 00:00:04,960 Speaker 1: The public has had a long held fascination with detectives. 2 00:00:05,440 --> 00:00:07,840 Speaker 1: Detective sy a side of life the average person is 3 00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:11,160 Speaker 1: never exposed to. I spent thirty four years as a cop. 4 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:14,080 Speaker 1: For twenty five of those years I was catching killers. 5 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:16,280 Speaker 1: That's what I did for a living. I was a 6 00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:20,600 Speaker 1: homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead, 7 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:23,200 Speaker 1: I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated. 8 00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:26,480 Speaker 1: The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories 9 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:28,840 Speaker 1: from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw 10 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:31,520 Speaker 1: and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some 11 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:34,680 Speaker 1: of the content and language might be confronting. That's because 12 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:37,720 Speaker 1: no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged. 13 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:40,440 Speaker 1: Join me now as I take you into this world. 14 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:47,760 Speaker 1: Welcome back to Part two of Them, A Chat with 15 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:50,600 Speaker 1: Sue and Lloyd Clark. They're the parents of Hannah Clark 16 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:55,040 Speaker 1: and the grandparents of Aliyah six years old, Leyana four 17 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:57,920 Speaker 1: years old, and Trey three years old, who are all 18 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:01,280 Speaker 1: murdered in February twenty twenty in a crime that shocked 19 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:03,760 Speaker 1: the nation when they were doused in petrol and set 20 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:07,080 Speaker 1: a light in their vehicle by Roan Baxter. Hannah's husband 21 00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:11,000 Speaker 1: and the father of the children. Guys, welcome, Welcome back 22 00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:11,839 Speaker 1: Part two. 23 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:13,440 Speaker 2: Ready to go. 24 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:20,000 Speaker 1: Yep, I'm glad you guys are. It's pretty heavy subject 25 00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:26,600 Speaker 1: that we're talking about, and I apologize that, yeah, reliving it, 26 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:30,160 Speaker 1: but no, it's it's not a problem. The things that 27 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 1: we're going to talk about in part two, I think 28 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:36,120 Speaker 1: of vital importance and making sure if in any way 29 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 1: we can prevent this type of thing happening. We left 30 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:43,440 Speaker 1: left part one. When you've been informed, you found out 31 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:47,760 Speaker 1: that what had happened to Hannah and the children. Talk 32 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 1: us through the next forty eight hours. 33 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 2: We were numb. 34 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:57,760 Speaker 3: I think after Hannah finally passed, she hung on till 35 00:01:57,760 --> 00:02:01,400 Speaker 3: a brother came back from the mines, had to ring 36 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:05,560 Speaker 3: him and get him flowing back home, and we said 37 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:09,200 Speaker 3: goodbye to our and then we were just numb. I 38 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:11,639 Speaker 3: think in a bit of a days. It had been 39 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:15,320 Speaker 3: one hell of a long day and we got home 40 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:19,240 Speaker 3: and I know, for some reason we all decided, we 41 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:22,000 Speaker 3: had Natt and Stacy with us, that we would go 42 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:26,920 Speaker 3: down to the corner just to see what was there 43 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:31,040 Speaker 3: the flowers. And as we were walking down, a storming 44 00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:34,240 Speaker 3: and we had a bit of a chuckle. That was 45 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:35,920 Speaker 3: having to telling the kids to get to bed. 46 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:36,399 Speaker 2: He left. 47 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:39,480 Speaker 1: She's still controlling, he's still telling that. 48 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:44,280 Speaker 3: They're still playing up at bedtime. And then the next morning, 49 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:48,440 Speaker 3: I think, well, we didn't sleep, neither of us slept 50 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:51,640 Speaker 3: at wink. I called you in to bed with Alia's 51 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:56,839 Speaker 3: favorite little elephant. And next morning we got up, took 52 00:02:56,880 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 3: the dogs and went for walk through the bush't we? 53 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:03,960 Speaker 2: And that same all that day so rain. That night, 54 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:06,920 Speaker 2: a big storm came through. It was just a typical 55 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:12,079 Speaker 2: February weather up here are humored, sticky, And the next 56 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:15,320 Speaker 2: day there's just all these yellow butterflies everywhere, everywhere, just 57 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:19,880 Speaker 2: butterflies everywhere. And that's why we've got the butterflies on 58 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 2: the emblem as well, Johannah's feet and the butterflies. So 59 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:24,800 Speaker 2: I thought, well, you know, it's it's a bit of 60 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:25,959 Speaker 2: a sign sort of thing. 61 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 3: It is. 62 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:29,840 Speaker 2: But yeah, for those next I suppose the next couple 63 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:32,280 Speaker 2: of months we were just numb. We didn't know what 64 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:35,880 Speaker 2: to do, where to go. And then next thing we was. 65 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:37,560 Speaker 3: Sort of we had these feet we didn't know what 66 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:41,360 Speaker 3: to do with. And icee you when someone's going to die, 67 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:44,080 Speaker 3: they give you a handprint on that person to keep well. 68 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:46,640 Speaker 3: The only thing that was left of hand it was 69 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:49,080 Speaker 3: the sales of a feet because she'd had joggers on 70 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:54,280 Speaker 3: so they didn't get burnt. So we were given her footprints. 71 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 2: And I can't remember how long after the ac couple 72 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 2: current affair was wanted us to do an interview, and 73 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 2: they somehow I got ahold of Nat and that said 74 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 2: we'll go do this interview, you know, for a current 75 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:10,960 Speaker 2: affair with Tracy and I just we didn't really want 76 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 2: to do it, so and I thought, really, so we're 77 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 2: getting I didn't want to. I refused it first, Yes, 78 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:22,000 Speaker 2: and the police were still looking after us. The detectors, 79 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:26,600 Speaker 2: they're like our personal bodyguards, and they were just with us. Now. 80 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:28,800 Speaker 2: Next morning they just turned up, are okay, what can 81 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:31,200 Speaker 2: we do? Can we get you anything? So they were 82 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:36,240 Speaker 2: wonderful and we've now formed really good friendships with tom 83 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:39,559 Speaker 2: O and Shan. We keep in touch all the time. 84 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:44,480 Speaker 2: And they were driving us too for the interview. It 85 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 2: was set up in a private house somewhere they'd airbnb one. 86 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:51,360 Speaker 2: So we're given the location and as I'm walking out, 87 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:54,240 Speaker 2: I said, I just want to grab these I want 88 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:57,919 Speaker 2: the nation to know that's all we've got left of Hannah. 89 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:04,039 Speaker 2: Footprints prince. Yeah, and so we did the interview. I 90 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:09,640 Speaker 2: showed the world her feet. You know, we come home 91 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 2: after that and I suppose to having a few drinks. 92 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:14,800 Speaker 2: We're sitting around and we're while we're there, we're talking 93 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:18,279 Speaker 2: to lew and Simon about you know that was friends, 94 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:22,400 Speaker 2: about maybe starting a foundation, you know, maybe we should 95 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:25,960 Speaker 2: do education. Let's look at all this. So then that's 96 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:28,600 Speaker 2: when we started getting the idea deers around, you know, 97 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 2: sort of footprints. Well, we don't know what we're doing. 98 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:36,320 Speaker 2: We'll just do small steps. Let's do small steps for 99 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:38,960 Speaker 2: Hannah and make it a four for the four of them. 100 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:41,000 Speaker 2: So that's how that sort of all came about, you know, 101 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:44,680 Speaker 2: the foundation, the symbol, and then we put the yellow butterflies. 102 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:46,359 Speaker 2: So we got the feet for Hannah, and the yellow 103 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 2: butterflies are the kids. 104 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:51,280 Speaker 3: Three are supposed to be teal because teal was her 105 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 3: favorite color, and the pink because she was forbidden to 106 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:54,440 Speaker 3: wear pink. 107 00:05:56,880 --> 00:06:00,559 Speaker 1: So symbolic, so symbolic, and I think it's that really 108 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:04,279 Speaker 1: brings home that that's what you're left of Hannah the prince. 109 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:07,560 Speaker 2: And then when you looked at too in age Hannah 110 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:13,000 Speaker 2: Aliyah Leana Trey Holt, so that became our our I'm 111 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:15,479 Speaker 2: saying that you had a wholt domestic violence. Well, and 112 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 2: I'd like to say it be Holt law, not Hannah's law, 113 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:22,440 Speaker 2: because everyone knows Hannah, but we're forgetting the kids. Yeah, 114 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 2: so we called the Holt law. 115 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:28,839 Speaker 1: Okay, isn't that It's got Well, I understand your thought 116 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:32,320 Speaker 1: process there. So when you said you waited until Nathan 117 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:35,799 Speaker 1: came down from the minds for Hannah to say goodbye, 118 00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:38,080 Speaker 1: did you get to speak to her after the event? 119 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 3: Was she they had a heavily sedated Yeah, we never got. 120 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:43,480 Speaker 3: I spoke to her, but she didn't respond. 121 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:46,120 Speaker 2: All right, So. 122 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:50,080 Speaker 1: You've got to move forward. I think a couple of 123 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 1: things that really touched me was the vigil the community. 124 00:06:54,360 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 1: The vigil there at the Parkland that a thousand people there. 125 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:02,640 Speaker 1: You were shocked. Did you see it? Did you get 126 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:05,560 Speaker 1: a sense of what was happening and involved in it? 127 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:07,719 Speaker 3: It was just crazy. We got to knock at the 128 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 3: front door, and he's the mayor and his wife and 129 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:19,240 Speaker 3: our local counselor and police commissioner and on our door. 130 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:23,360 Speaker 3: We never spent time with people like that, you know, 131 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 3: we were normal people, and we let them into our 132 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 3: home home, a little house, and they said we would 133 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 3: like to do this. We feel the community needs it 134 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 3: and would like it. And we were overwhelmed that people 135 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:41,040 Speaker 3: felt like that, like we'd always been nobody's you know, 136 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:43,520 Speaker 3: and the thought that people wanted to support us was lovely. 137 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:47,000 Speaker 2: The flowers were starting to and teddy bears and that 138 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:51,080 Speaker 2: were starting to pile up on the corner. So the counselor, 139 00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:53,960 Speaker 2: Fiota cuming Ham had said, well, I think we will 140 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:57,080 Speaker 2: move it down to Bill Hewett Park and people can 141 00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 2: leave their gifts and thoughts there because it's just spilling 142 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:03,680 Speaker 2: out everywhere. So that's when they said, well, if you'd like, 143 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 2: we'd like to organize a vigil, you know, and you 144 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:09,920 Speaker 2: guys don't have to do I think we'll organize it 145 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:12,240 Speaker 2: all and put the word out. But we were just 146 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:16,800 Speaker 2: so touched. There was so many people I suppose we'd 147 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:20,480 Speaker 2: lost touch with over the years because we went our 148 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:23,640 Speaker 2: separate ways. And it was mainly the people that I 149 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:26,680 Speaker 2: met from when I moved to Brisbane in nineteen eighty 150 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:29,920 Speaker 2: to come down here and play football, and I think 151 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:33,720 Speaker 2: we all formed a very strong bond back there then, 152 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:36,400 Speaker 2: and they were forever friends, and they sort of friends 153 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:39,840 Speaker 2: that you don't see for six months, twelve months, ten years, 154 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 2: but next time you see them, you can start that 155 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:45,560 Speaker 2: conversation as if it was twenty years ago, sitting in 156 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:48,680 Speaker 2: the pub having it a good old chat. We never 157 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:53,560 Speaker 2: lost touch in that respect. So everyone just banned around 158 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:56,800 Speaker 2: Hannah's friends. There were so many people that were there, 159 00:08:56,840 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 2: you know. 160 00:08:57,040 --> 00:09:00,160 Speaker 3: That was We had old school friends turn up. They 161 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:02,080 Speaker 3: were living on the other side of Brisbane. It was 162 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:02,840 Speaker 3: just amazing. 163 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:06,480 Speaker 1: And did that that help you guys process? 164 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:08,040 Speaker 2: I don't know. 165 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 3: I think I was a nub to be honest. It 166 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:14,240 Speaker 3: was lovely to see that and feel the support, But 167 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:17,920 Speaker 3: I don't know in all honesty if it helped at 168 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:19,480 Speaker 3: the time, I didn't not help. 169 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:22,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, I couldn't say whether yeah, it made me feel 170 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 2: stronger or that. But it was just lovely to see 171 00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 2: and people came from to Womba, yes, came down. But 172 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:34,120 Speaker 2: then again we started getting these stories. You know, we 173 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:37,160 Speaker 2: didn't need to hear them at that time. Out they're 174 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:41,160 Speaker 2: dramas their problem and I really love you know, I'm 175 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:43,400 Speaker 2: still trying to process my own grief here. How can 176 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:46,440 Speaker 2: I but we're lucky tom O and Shane were there. 177 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:48,360 Speaker 2: They would see this and they'd sort of okay, we're 178 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:50,000 Speaker 2: going to take you over here. 179 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:52,880 Speaker 1: When there's a tragedy of the magnitude that what you 180 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:56,480 Speaker 1: guys suffered Pannah and the children, people quite don't often 181 00:09:56,559 --> 00:09:58,720 Speaker 1: know how to deal with it and deal with what 182 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:01,480 Speaker 1: to say. Like I I've had people that have had 183 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:05,120 Speaker 1: situations not this similar to what you've gone through, and 184 00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 1: people avoid them on the street, people that because they 185 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:09,960 Speaker 1: don't know what to say. Oh, there's Lloyd and Sue. 186 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:12,320 Speaker 1: What do we I'm just avoid. 187 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:14,600 Speaker 2: We've had had that a lot. I've had people come 188 00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:17,640 Speaker 2: up to me three years later and say I've met 189 00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:20,680 Speaker 2: them somewhere. You said, oh yeah. I said, oh look, 190 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:22,839 Speaker 2: I really wanted to call you, but I didn't know 191 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:25,520 Speaker 2: what to say, so we had to say was hello, Yeah, 192 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:28,440 Speaker 2: I said, you know, I'm happy, you know, like if 193 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:30,640 Speaker 2: I take your call or leave a message and I'll 194 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:32,959 Speaker 2: call you back now when I can. So basically from 195 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:35,080 Speaker 2: that day, I think I put my phone on silent 196 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:37,640 Speaker 2: and I just look at down there and go, oh, yeah, okay, 197 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:39,760 Speaker 2: I'll ring that person. I know they're okay, ring them 198 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:41,439 Speaker 2: didn't know that number. Let it go. They left a 199 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:42,880 Speaker 2: message I'd get back to them. 200 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:47,079 Speaker 1: And quite often people in your situations, or one person particularly, 201 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:49,280 Speaker 1: said that the best thing someone could say to me 202 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:51,839 Speaker 1: was just not trying to make you feel better by 203 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:55,040 Speaker 1: wise words, because there's no just thinking of you, yes, 204 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:56,360 Speaker 1: and give you a cuddle. 205 00:10:56,520 --> 00:10:56,720 Speaker 2: Yeah. 206 00:10:57,000 --> 00:11:00,680 Speaker 3: One of the girls I worked with rang me the 207 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 3: next morning and all she said was f love. I've 208 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:09,200 Speaker 3: got no words and it was just so true, and 209 00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:10,440 Speaker 3: I said I don't either. 210 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:15,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, but something as simple as that, it's profound in 211 00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:16,200 Speaker 1: the simplicity of it. 212 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:17,640 Speaker 2: Yeah. 213 00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:21,160 Speaker 1: There was a park named Hannah's Place. The portion in 214 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:24,080 Speaker 1: the park, yes, is that? Does that feel nice for 215 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:26,160 Speaker 1: you to know that hasn't been forgotten? 216 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:29,719 Speaker 3: We go up on the nineteenth feb every year and 217 00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:32,080 Speaker 3: we go up on Hannah's birthday and have a drink. 218 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:32,880 Speaker 3: It's nice. 219 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:35,600 Speaker 2: I mean the council just did that off the bat 220 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:38,200 Speaker 2: and said, look, we're going to do this little bench 221 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:41,720 Speaker 2: in the Bill Hue Park and little cover so people 222 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:45,280 Speaker 2: can just come sit, talk, reflect whether they think about 223 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:48,080 Speaker 2: Hannah orhere they think about someone else. And then they 224 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:51,560 Speaker 2: put the sign up Hannah's Place, And then what happened, 225 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:54,240 Speaker 2: just so people will know down the track you know 226 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:56,920 Speaker 2: who hell it was. But I don't think a lot 227 00:11:56,920 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 2: of people will forget her. 228 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:03,920 Speaker 1: No, I'm sure that it won't be the case. So 229 00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:06,559 Speaker 1: small steps for Hannah. What's the aims and goals of 230 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:08,160 Speaker 1: that group to. 231 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:13,600 Speaker 3: Get course of control? Our Lord's standalone laws in every 232 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:19,480 Speaker 3: state would be wonderful. And education and saving women Hannah 233 00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:22,199 Speaker 3: wanted to. She was in the process of applied to 234 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:25,079 Speaker 3: the police force when she was killed, because she said, 235 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:28,360 Speaker 3: I understand it. I can help women like myself. So 236 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:31,280 Speaker 3: that's one of our goals. She's not here to do it. 237 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:34,440 Speaker 3: So we want to save women. But education is our 238 00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:35,240 Speaker 3: big thing now. 239 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:38,760 Speaker 1: I think it's got to be the twofold And sometimes 240 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:43,520 Speaker 1: I get concerned when there's a crime domestic violence. We're 241 00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:46,080 Speaker 1: talking here and the attitude is, Okay, well, we're going 242 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:48,200 Speaker 1: to make the laws tougher. We're going to do this, 243 00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:49,680 Speaker 1: We're going to do that. But it's got to be 244 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:53,040 Speaker 1: a multi layered approach. I think to make a difference. 245 00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:56,959 Speaker 1: Let's talk about coercive control. Because I talked about when 246 00:12:57,000 --> 00:12:59,839 Speaker 1: we met at that function. One of the things I 247 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:01,840 Speaker 1: walked away inspired and I don't know if you are 248 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:05,080 Speaker 1: steering the politicians or the attorney generals to me. But 249 00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:08,280 Speaker 1: I came back with there thinking one hundred percent this 250 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:10,760 Speaker 1: has to be done. And I've gone on about coercive 251 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:13,760 Speaker 1: controls in a lot of different podcasts of different forums 252 00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:17,120 Speaker 1: because it just makes sense to me. Now, for those 253 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:20,319 Speaker 1: that don't know what coercive control what we're talking about here, 254 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:25,080 Speaker 1: coercive control laws, I'll refer back to the police just 255 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:27,800 Speaker 1: to explain it. We'll dumb it down. In my day 256 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:30,679 Speaker 1: in the police, without coercive control, we get called to 257 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:34,480 Speaker 1: a domestic and if you get called to too many domestics, 258 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:38,280 Speaker 1: what's happened here? Well, nothing will. The neighbor's called, there's 259 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:40,959 Speaker 1: a disturbance, invariably, and this is a bad old days. 260 00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:44,320 Speaker 1: It's well, you'd look to the woman, and the woman 261 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 1: say no, I'm fine, even though you can tell that 262 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:50,959 Speaker 1: she's scared. But the husband's standing right there. We improved 263 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:54,480 Speaker 1: policing to domestic type of assaults or of family violence 264 00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:56,840 Speaker 1: to the point where okay, we've got the power of 265 00:13:56,840 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 1: the aviva. We'll take our that break, not a family 266 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:04,360 Speaker 1: violence order or whatever the thing that Hannah took out 267 00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:08,679 Speaker 1: that helps to a degree, but it doesn't circumvent it. 268 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:11,640 Speaker 1: And police we look at things very black and white. 269 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:15,120 Speaker 1: If there's no assault, like if I'm talking to I 270 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:18,080 Speaker 1: turn up at your place, there's Lloyd and Sue. I 271 00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:21,280 Speaker 1: haven't been assaulted, but he's done this, done that. Well, 272 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:25,280 Speaker 1: it's not really legislation for it. Cowersive control is making 273 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:28,560 Speaker 1: it a law, a law that can be acted upon 274 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 1: about the behavior and control of a person in an 275 00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:36,200 Speaker 1: intimate relationship. I think it's a no brainer now. It 276 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:39,320 Speaker 1: was passed in parliament here in Queensland on sixth of March, 277 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 1: and in New South Wales it's been flagged in parliament there. 278 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:48,120 Speaker 1: I think it's a great step. And would you guys 279 00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:51,000 Speaker 1: agree that powers like that could have made a difference 280 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:52,080 Speaker 1: in Hannah's situation? 281 00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:55,480 Speaker 3: Oh definitely. Well, for once she would have realized it 282 00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:59,400 Speaker 3: was actually a crime more domestic violence being committed against her. Ye, 283 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:02,200 Speaker 3: so I think she may have looked at things differently, 284 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:05,000 Speaker 3: probably acted earlier quicker. 285 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:08,680 Speaker 2: Like we were saying, with the A v O, d 286 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:10,760 Speaker 2: v as whatever you want to call them. You know 287 00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 2: they're just a bit of paper. How does that stop 288 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:15,680 Speaker 2: someone from Okay, you're it says Oh, you're not allowed 289 00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:17,040 Speaker 2: to go within a kilometer. 290 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:19,920 Speaker 1: And when you're talking in this idiot. 291 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:21,000 Speaker 2: That means nothing to him. 292 00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:23,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, he's not going to worry about that. 293 00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:26,880 Speaker 2: So you know, this is where I think we spoke 294 00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:31,680 Speaker 2: earlier the other day about it, you know, monitoring. Okay, 295 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:34,720 Speaker 2: we've got to go down that path. Definitely, nationally a 296 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:41,080 Speaker 2: register everyone who does a dvo or whatever, they need 297 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:44,760 Speaker 2: to be registered, so nationally they know that they've had 298 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:47,800 Speaker 2: a dvo or put a dvo on them. Then also 299 00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:50,960 Speaker 2: they need to do a program a perpetrate. 300 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:53,320 Speaker 1: Okay, I don't want to forget these points, because they're 301 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:56,040 Speaker 1: all very valid points I want to break breakdown. 302 00:15:56,400 --> 00:15:58,880 Speaker 2: Won't that make it a bit easier to follow them, 303 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:01,760 Speaker 2: to know where they're at if they are getting too close? 304 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:05,080 Speaker 2: Especially in Hannah's case, we would have known that he 305 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:06,320 Speaker 2: was hiding beside the house. 306 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:09,080 Speaker 1: Let's get on our soapbox here and hopefully people are 307 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:12,200 Speaker 1: listening to the podcast. Like an ankle bracelet, how would 308 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:15,560 Speaker 1: that make a difference. I just in this day and 309 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:18,120 Speaker 1: age of technology the way it is, I, for the 310 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:21,760 Speaker 1: life of me don't understand why that's not implemented asap, 311 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:23,160 Speaker 1: And it. 312 00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:24,720 Speaker 2: Could be something out there. But it could be like 313 00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:25,200 Speaker 2: an app. 314 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:28,680 Speaker 1: Well, we could do it during COVID, couldn't We could 315 00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:32,000 Speaker 1: track everyone the movements during COVID, and that was everyone. 316 00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:36,000 Speaker 1: Why can't we have a Okay, there's a domestic violent situation. 317 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:39,000 Speaker 1: Someone gets an ankle bracelet put onto them, because that's 318 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 1: the person that's rowan. In the case case of Hannah, 319 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:46,520 Speaker 1: if he comes within five kilometers or make it ten kilometers, 320 00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:52,040 Speaker 1: alarms go off, police are notified. Hannah's no theifire, and 321 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:54,320 Speaker 1: all of a sudden she can live her life in 322 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:57,600 Speaker 1: peace knowing that she's safe in that he's not close by. Okay, 323 00:16:57,720 --> 00:16:59,840 Speaker 1: people say, but they could cut the ankle bracelet off 324 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:03,240 Speaker 1: the moment that's cut off the alarm game and has notified. 325 00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:06,280 Speaker 1: So there's all these protocols in place. To me, it 326 00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:08,800 Speaker 1: just seems like a no brainer. And what are the 327 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:12,159 Speaker 1: arguments not invasion of privacy or this or that. I 328 00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:15,000 Speaker 1: don't see it. They've only got the ankle bracelet on 329 00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:17,760 Speaker 1: them because they're repeat offenders or they've been more and 330 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:20,880 Speaker 1: they've done it again and it could circumven it. Can 331 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 1: anyone in this room find the problem at all? 332 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:28,280 Speaker 2: I definitely not, you know, I actually seem like a 333 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:29,160 Speaker 2: little spike or a. 334 00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:31,760 Speaker 1: Shock like the barking dot. 335 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:34,160 Speaker 2: Why not you know, if they come within that class, 336 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:35,720 Speaker 2: they get a bit of a shock. Hang on your 337 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:37,280 Speaker 2: step back now, No, but. 338 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:38,879 Speaker 3: I think it would save lives. 339 00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:43,960 Speaker 1: One hundred percent would save lives. And like, why can't 340 00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:46,000 Speaker 1: we talk about we're going to get tough, We're going 341 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:48,080 Speaker 1: to do this, We're going to do that. I understand 342 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:50,439 Speaker 1: that tighten up the bail laws, make it so people 343 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:53,240 Speaker 1: don't get a chance. But in the conversations we had 344 00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:56,120 Speaker 1: the other day, it was about everyone deserves a chance. Yeah, 345 00:17:56,119 --> 00:17:58,439 Speaker 1: we'll give them one chance. But if they fail on 346 00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:01,720 Speaker 1: that chance, here's your bracelet, idiot, and you come within 347 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:05,640 Speaker 1: five kilometers of the person that's at risk, you're going 348 00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:06,080 Speaker 1: to jail. 349 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:06,600 Speaker 3: Yep. 350 00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:10,960 Speaker 2: I like that. And it's a register, yeah, national register. 351 00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:14,879 Speaker 1: On the register thing. And I often have this conversation 352 00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:19,000 Speaker 1: with sex offenders and that different type of situation. But 353 00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:22,359 Speaker 1: let's do it for domestic violence register. People say it's 354 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:25,879 Speaker 1: an invasion of privacy. Okay, why don't we have it 355 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:30,000 Speaker 1: like this? So I've never been charged with domestic violence, 356 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:32,600 Speaker 1: you haven't been charged with domestic violence. I'm happy to 357 00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:35,240 Speaker 1: go on the register. If I happen to be out 358 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:39,200 Speaker 1: dating someone or meeting someone, can I check whether you're 359 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:41,840 Speaker 1: on the register? Yeah, you can check. Here's my name. 360 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:44,399 Speaker 1: I'm on the register. So it's the idiots that have 361 00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:47,520 Speaker 1: got these charges won't be on the register. So it's 362 00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:50,760 Speaker 1: not the invasion of anyone. We flip it a little bit. 363 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:53,720 Speaker 1: It's a voluntary it's voluntary. So I'm happy to go 364 00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:55,840 Speaker 1: on the register because I haven't got a charge. So 365 00:18:55,840 --> 00:18:58,640 Speaker 1: if anyone wants to check me out, Gary jubiln blah 366 00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:01,760 Speaker 1: blah blah, No is why can't we do that? 367 00:19:02,119 --> 00:19:02,880 Speaker 2: Yeah? Exactly. 368 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:07,159 Speaker 1: To me, that seems like a simple solution and we 369 00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:10,240 Speaker 1: circumvent all this. It's an invasion of privacy and everyone's 370 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:12,879 Speaker 1: got to forget that. I volunteer to go on the 371 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:19,639 Speaker 1: register so anyone can contact me little things like that. Now, Education, again, 372 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:22,000 Speaker 1: I keep repeating this because I've seen it too many 373 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:24,600 Speaker 1: times over my career that if something's going wrong with 374 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:26,280 Speaker 1: a crime, we're going to get tough on this and 375 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:28,720 Speaker 1: we're going to you know, we're mandatory sentence, We're going 376 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:33,760 Speaker 1: to do this. We need to educate people about domestic violence, 377 00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:37,119 Speaker 1: about coercive control. We need to call people out on 378 00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:39,000 Speaker 1: them and it needs to start at a young young 379 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:42,119 Speaker 1: age all the way through. What's your thoughts on that. 380 00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:46,840 Speaker 2: Well, we're now well small steps, I should say. We've 381 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:50,080 Speaker 2: got two brilliant people who are tackling it on two 382 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:54,240 Speaker 2: different aspects. One's the whole program Dave Kramer, who used 383 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:59,000 Speaker 2: to train with Hannah. He's now a behavioral specialist scientist, 384 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:04,200 Speaker 2: and he's doing one for the children, so high school 385 00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:07,440 Speaker 2: aged children. At the moment, we're still and it's taken 386 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:09,800 Speaker 2: a while because we want to get it right. Because 387 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:13,479 Speaker 2: we're talking children here and they're in our future. We 388 00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:17,399 Speaker 2: want them to behave properly in relationships. They need to 389 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:21,879 Speaker 2: learn how to behave properly and break up properly. So 390 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:26,040 Speaker 2: days is just get ready to do another pilot and 391 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:26,800 Speaker 2: put it out there. 392 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:29,639 Speaker 1: So he's going under the schools in the school. 393 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:32,360 Speaker 2: Something Manfield up here in Queensland. He's the owner. Mansiell's 394 00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:34,280 Speaker 2: got them lined up to do the next pilot and 395 00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:36,600 Speaker 2: then we should be right to just start rolling it out. 396 00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:40,840 Speaker 2: However he can know how often he can. He's got 397 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:43,840 Speaker 2: the work to do. But with both programs, we don't 398 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:45,680 Speaker 2: want to franchise it. We don't want to just go 399 00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:48,320 Speaker 2: out there push bush bush. We want it delivered properly 400 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:52,160 Speaker 2: and quietly. The other one is Michael. 401 00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:59,840 Speaker 1: So people if it's hold. 402 00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:01,840 Speaker 3: And days working with the university and professors getting their 403 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:05,200 Speaker 3: inputs on how to speak to the children, and also 404 00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:07,879 Speaker 3: talking to the children about what they're seene on social 405 00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:10,959 Speaker 3: media and how to understand that and how a lot 406 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:14,800 Speaker 3: of it's not right, and how to do with their 407 00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:18,840 Speaker 3: feelings and how if a lot of boys get upset 408 00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:21,800 Speaker 3: and they lash out. Dave talks about how to deal 409 00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:25,720 Speaker 3: with those feelings, and Dave's, you know, a fit young fellow, 410 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 3: and he explains or talks about it's okay to cry, 411 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:31,760 Speaker 3: and Dave may get tears while he was talking because 412 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:34,920 Speaker 3: he loved Tanna and the children. They were good friends. 413 00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:40,480 Speaker 3: And when the kids see him get emotional, they see 414 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:43,120 Speaker 3: it's okay, it's okay for a man to be He's a. 415 00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:46,040 Speaker 1: Person they can look up to ye and also show. 416 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:49,880 Speaker 3: Emotion exactly, So he's really hitting it as not accusing 417 00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:53,680 Speaker 3: all teenage boys as being potential perpetrators, but just how 418 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:56,320 Speaker 3: to deal with your emotions and what you see on 419 00:21:56,359 --> 00:21:59,840 Speaker 3: social media and just coping with teenage life as such, 420 00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:03,680 Speaker 3: and respect for relationships. 421 00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:06,879 Speaker 1: So and dealing with your emotions is an important part. Lloyd, 422 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:08,960 Speaker 1: I look at you, you can look at me you. 423 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:12,000 Speaker 1: I think we've shared ground. When you were young, like 424 00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:13,800 Speaker 1: you didn't know how to deal with your emotions. You 425 00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:17,760 Speaker 1: got you're either cranky or you were happy. Yes, that 426 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:21,200 Speaker 1: was and because that was the role models that were shown. 427 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:23,479 Speaker 2: That's right, there was. Well my era too, there was 428 00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:26,240 Speaker 2: no mentors. I didn't have a mentor, like, oh a 429 00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:28,600 Speaker 2: few people did, but who needs a mentor? And then 430 00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:30,880 Speaker 2: if you did something, you know, you're stuffed up at work, 431 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:33,520 Speaker 2: you know, you started showing an emotion. I hardened up, mate, 432 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:36,320 Speaker 2: have a cup of concrete, Come on, move on. And 433 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:39,000 Speaker 2: I think that's sort of maybe made me a bit 434 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:42,360 Speaker 2: of a tough old bugger and realized that, you know, 435 00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:45,960 Speaker 2: there's more to life, you know. Okay, we've had a 436 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:50,280 Speaker 2: terrible tragedy or the worst tragedy ever, but I need 437 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:52,960 Speaker 2: to move on, you know, I need to never get 438 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:55,760 Speaker 2: over it. Don't get me wrong, never there. But we 439 00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:58,679 Speaker 2: had to just get up and keep going. And I 440 00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:01,159 Speaker 2: think we said earlier, we just helped each other and 441 00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:03,080 Speaker 2: we spoke we talked, and this is what I think. 442 00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:06,200 Speaker 2: It's conversation. We need to have conversations. So we haven't 443 00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:09,720 Speaker 2: going to have conversations with children in schools about behaving 444 00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:12,840 Speaker 2: properly and about there but their emotions and showing them 445 00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:15,280 Speaker 2: and or not showing them all that sort. 446 00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:18,920 Speaker 1: Of stuff, and it's not it's not building a soft society. 447 00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:23,320 Speaker 1: I think the problem we've got just discussions. If blakes 448 00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:27,560 Speaker 1: break up like a rel relationship, and I won't use 449 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:30,040 Speaker 1: realm because I think he's an outlier in that. It's 450 00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:35,840 Speaker 1: women sit down and do brief, go through the nitty 451 00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:39,000 Speaker 1: gritty of it or whatever. If Lloyd and I are 452 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:41,760 Speaker 1: sitting there and broke up, Oh that's so good mate, 453 00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:46,920 Speaker 1: What what are you drinking? It's almost that discissive type thing. 454 00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:50,040 Speaker 2: And this week and the tips, Yeah, don't have. 455 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:53,480 Speaker 1: The hard subjects. That's just bas and that's what we 456 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:55,919 Speaker 1: shy away from it. And I think that's where you 457 00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:58,760 Speaker 1: get these people caught up in this just spiraling circle 458 00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:01,920 Speaker 1: of obsession or what ever. Then they haven't got the release, 459 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:04,000 Speaker 1: they don't know how to talk talk through it. So 460 00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:10,000 Speaker 1: education at the school, So Dave's full name Dave Kramer, 461 00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:14,280 Speaker 1: and the whole program. So if people want to see what's. 462 00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:16,960 Speaker 2: Going on, just get onto our website and we've got 463 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:20,040 Speaker 2: a section there for education, and yeah, they can just 464 00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:22,800 Speaker 2: send us an email and yeah, we'll try and fit 465 00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:23,160 Speaker 2: them in. 466 00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:28,040 Speaker 1: I do think it is a way to approach it. Wait, wait, 467 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:30,679 Speaker 1: definitely a way to approach it. You've got to re educate. 468 00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:34,800 Speaker 1: I on the podcast series Breaking Badness, I went into 469 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:39,760 Speaker 1: a prison covering speaking to inmates in a maximum security prison, 470 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:42,960 Speaker 1: and there was something that was discussed with me when 471 00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:44,800 Speaker 1: I actually got to sit down and speak to some 472 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:47,800 Speaker 1: of the inmates and you know, what are you're in 473 00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:50,120 Speaker 1: here for? And somewhere in there for horrendous crimes? Blah 474 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:53,640 Speaker 1: blah blah, And then the topic of domestic violence came up, 475 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:57,119 Speaker 1: and they said the problem that what happens if someone 476 00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:01,439 Speaker 1: is being charged with domestic violence, breach the AVA or whatever, 477 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:04,800 Speaker 1: end up in prison. They're in there, they're in there 478 00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:08,960 Speaker 1: with angry men, and they're angry, and then they serve 479 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:10,919 Speaker 1: their time for breaching the a v O. And then 480 00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:13,119 Speaker 1: they get out and they're just been pacing up and 481 00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:16,639 Speaker 1: down their cell going that, bitch, why won't you report me? 482 00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:20,199 Speaker 1: So they're getting they're getting out angry, and it's not 483 00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:22,960 Speaker 1: you know it, we know it's stupid, but this is 484 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:25,399 Speaker 1: the logic going in their mind. And someone said and 485 00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:27,560 Speaker 1: there was just is obviously spent a lot of time 486 00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:30,439 Speaker 1: in prison this, but there needs to be something to 487 00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:33,920 Speaker 1: help them in there to work to navigate away away 488 00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:36,920 Speaker 1: from this. Otherwise you're just put in men that were 489 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:39,119 Speaker 1: angry to start with. That's why they're in here, and 490 00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:41,400 Speaker 1: then they're in here and they're getting out angrier, and 491 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:45,120 Speaker 1: no one's an intervention program for that type of thing. 492 00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:49,600 Speaker 1: So but all these things that there's so many different 493 00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:53,320 Speaker 1: layers to it, isn't it exactly? And falling back on 494 00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:56,080 Speaker 1: the politician side of it and the police side of it, 495 00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:59,640 Speaker 1: where bail is being given, there's some warning signs there 496 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:02,639 Speaker 1: and I think someone mentioned that there was someone that 497 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:07,000 Speaker 1: was bailed after they killed their ex's pet to me 498 00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:13,040 Speaker 1: and again not a psychologist, but that's warning, warning and 499 00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:16,160 Speaker 1: how they get bail from there. So there's a lot 500 00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:20,040 Speaker 1: of things that need to be done to make a difference. 501 00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:24,240 Speaker 1: Are you guys confident like you've been given a platform 502 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:27,760 Speaker 1: and it's a platform that you certainly didn't want And 503 00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:31,960 Speaker 1: I sense an easier life for you would be stepping away. 504 00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:35,320 Speaker 1: Do you think we are getting better at dealing with 505 00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:36,960 Speaker 1: domestic and family violence? 506 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:42,639 Speaker 2: It's hard. I think we're getting more aware. Everyone's getting 507 00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:45,280 Speaker 2: more aware. The conversations are great at the moment because 508 00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:48,919 Speaker 2: we're seeing people talking about it and it's not just 509 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:52,040 Speaker 2: you know, the cause of control, but it's all domestic 510 00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:55,760 Speaker 2: and family violence. So now the federal government's getting involved. 511 00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:59,960 Speaker 2: Finally taken four years from nearly four years from Hannah, 512 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:02,919 Speaker 2: until the federal governments turned around said we need a 513 00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:07,120 Speaker 2: national inquiry, we need a national input. So let's get 514 00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:09,600 Speaker 2: all the states together, and that's what we've been pushing 515 00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:11,920 Speaker 2: for is get all the states to bloody turn around 516 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:14,000 Speaker 2: and do something. It'd be great if there was just 517 00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:19,080 Speaker 2: one law that suited every state and territory, but unfortunately 518 00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:21,080 Speaker 2: that's never going to happen. So we've got to make 519 00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:24,200 Speaker 2: sure that these other states and territories actually do something, 520 00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:29,000 Speaker 2: just not be Queensland, New South Wales and hopefully South Australia. 521 00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:32,359 Speaker 2: Well there's already some laws in Tasmania, but they probably 522 00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:35,200 Speaker 2: need to be bolstered up a bit. But we're seeing 523 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:38,000 Speaker 2: a shift in policing with her some really good stories 524 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:39,119 Speaker 2: come out. 525 00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:42,239 Speaker 1: Tell us that because people think I bash it up 526 00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:46,119 Speaker 1: on the police sometimes that I love good stories about policing. 527 00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:48,800 Speaker 3: We did tell that Christy Oh, a friend of ours 528 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:51,840 Speaker 3: up the coast, who twenty years ago had been in 529 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:57,439 Speaker 3: a domestic violence relationship which was quite physical, and she's since, 530 00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:02,040 Speaker 3: as often happens, has a fellow and she's in the 531 00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:08,119 Speaker 3: same situation now. But New Year's Eve the police were called. 532 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:10,359 Speaker 3: He got out of carving knife and rang the police 533 00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:12,479 Speaker 3: and said that she was trying to attack him, and 534 00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:15,600 Speaker 3: they clearly saw through it for what it was. But 535 00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:19,560 Speaker 3: the police did advise that one should leave the house. 536 00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:23,359 Speaker 3: No one did, but the police helped get him to 537 00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:27,760 Speaker 3: an AA meeting, They got him to a psychologist, and 538 00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:30,520 Speaker 3: they really kept checking in and doing wellfall checks and 539 00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:33,520 Speaker 3: she said the change in twenty years to how the 540 00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:36,119 Speaker 3: police reacted was amazing. 541 00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,160 Speaker 1: Okay, well, that's credit to the police. I do think 542 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:42,320 Speaker 1: that I do think they've become aware of the situation 543 00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:43,120 Speaker 1: they have. 544 00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:48,240 Speaker 2: And we've sent it here in Queensland, especially when you 545 00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:51,720 Speaker 2: know we also with the Foundation, we give grants out 546 00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:54,800 Speaker 2: so that before we actually sort of got involved, well, 547 00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:57,560 Speaker 2: we didn't think we'd be able to do the education 548 00:28:57,600 --> 00:28:59,040 Speaker 2: because she just didn't know how to set that up. 549 00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:01,960 Speaker 2: So you had all this money piling up. People were 550 00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:05,640 Speaker 2: just donating to us, you know, to help. We thought, well, okay, 551 00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:08,680 Speaker 2: we've got this money, and we spoke to our patron, 552 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:11,120 Speaker 2: Nina Shremmon, and she said, all you need to do 553 00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:13,520 Speaker 2: is just sit on it, put in the bank, maybe 554 00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:14,800 Speaker 2: start giving grants out. 555 00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:16,520 Speaker 1: To workwhile projects. 556 00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:19,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, people that foundations that can't get the grands have 557 00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:22,120 Speaker 2: missed out on grants. So we just put a call 558 00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:24,960 Speaker 2: out and our goal is and we're going to reach 559 00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:27,920 Speaker 2: that quite comfortably. We'd like to give a million dollars 560 00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:30,480 Speaker 2: out with them five years, and that's coming around pretty 561 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:33,400 Speaker 2: quick and we'll definitely have it before the five years, 562 00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:37,320 Speaker 2: so we and just give out whatever. And one of 563 00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:41,040 Speaker 2: them was to set of women and co here a 564 00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:44,640 Speaker 2: little foundation. They have counselors and what they did they 565 00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:47,000 Speaker 2: were putting them out with the police to go out 566 00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:50,080 Speaker 2: and help in the domestic violence in the Logan area. 567 00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:54,239 Speaker 2: And they the funding to run out, so they're going 568 00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:55,640 Speaker 2: to shut it down. I read this in the paper 569 00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:59,560 Speaker 2: and then so did the our our shairman on the board, 570 00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:01,520 Speaker 2: and we sort of both had the same idea at 571 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:04,320 Speaker 2: the same time. Well, let's do something about it. Let's 572 00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:06,160 Speaker 2: get in touch, let's maybe give them some money. We 573 00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:09,760 Speaker 2: can't give them do it forever, but maybe pay for 574 00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:12,240 Speaker 2: six months and then see what happens. 575 00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:14,920 Speaker 1: And so that was having a counselor go out with 576 00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:16,320 Speaker 1: the police to attend. 577 00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:19,560 Speaker 2: A semestic or people who wouldn't didn't want to come 578 00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:22,200 Speaker 2: in because they've actually had problems with the police to 579 00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:25,680 Speaker 2: start with. They hated going to the police. Distrust, yeah, distrust, 580 00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:27,640 Speaker 2: you know that sort of thing. So they would go, look, 581 00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:30,200 Speaker 2: I'll go down and see them have a couple or 582 00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:33,200 Speaker 2: ring them in and I'll actually sit there with you 583 00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:37,000 Speaker 2: through the interview, so you're comfortable, right, and then I'll 584 00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:37,760 Speaker 2: take you back home. 585 00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:40,520 Speaker 1: Just a little thinks like that make a big So 586 00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:41,680 Speaker 1: we did that. 587 00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:45,600 Speaker 3: They also were helping the police with how to phrase 588 00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:48,800 Speaker 3: the questions. Now they were saying, like, how about you 589 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:51,760 Speaker 3: asked this way, and that helped the police a lot 590 00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:54,560 Speaker 3: because they understood better and they were getting better answer. 591 00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:55,320 Speaker 2: I think. 592 00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:58,280 Speaker 1: And the police want to do it. They set out 593 00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:00,680 Speaker 1: to do a bad job. And I know, you speak 594 00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:02,680 Speaker 1: to any police officer and they all put the hand 595 00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:05,040 Speaker 1: up to how intimidating it was the first time you 596 00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:07,960 Speaker 1: got called to a domestic because invariably you were younger 597 00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:10,200 Speaker 1: than the person you were going there to tell how 598 00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:12,160 Speaker 1: to behave and you walk in there and go, I 599 00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:12,920 Speaker 1: don't know what to do. 600 00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:16,720 Speaker 3: That's right. So if you've got a young constable, but 601 00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:20,320 Speaker 3: that and you've got someone who's experienced helping you and 602 00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:22,960 Speaker 3: advising you on what to say and what to look for, 603 00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:24,600 Speaker 3: makes a huge difference. 604 00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:28,959 Speaker 1: Well, it's again so many different things to look at, 605 00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:29,240 Speaker 1: isn't it. 606 00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:32,280 Speaker 3: Well, the police here are actually trialing that in three 607 00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:35,440 Speaker 3: of our worst domestic violence areas at the moment, having 608 00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:36,760 Speaker 3: co responders go out. 609 00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:39,320 Speaker 2: And when we went down there too, oh they wonder, 610 00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:40,720 Speaker 2: thank us and that, you know, and do the whole 611 00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:44,600 Speaker 2: novelty check thing and hand that over. Had a bit 612 00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:46,240 Speaker 2: of a morning tea down there and talking to one 613 00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,640 Speaker 2: of the senior police there, he said, mate, you don't 614 00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:52,720 Speaker 2: believe the difference in policing, he said, once before before 615 00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:56,400 Speaker 2: we actually had these guys on as coresponders. You know, 616 00:31:57,080 --> 00:31:59,479 Speaker 2: we'd put a call out there's a domestic dispirit at 617 00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:03,080 Speaker 2: such a star everyone's going, oh, hang on, there's also 618 00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:05,160 Speaker 2: a car crash. We'll go to the car crash, the 619 00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:08,520 Speaker 2: car crash, and then all of a sudden, you know, 620 00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:11,400 Speaker 2: they realize that they are helping and they're doing really 621 00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:13,880 Speaker 2: good for the community. They will get into the bottom 622 00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:16,000 Speaker 2: of everything. He said, No one wants to go to 623 00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:18,360 Speaker 2: car crash anymore. They will want to go to the 624 00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:22,280 Speaker 2: DV situation. How good is that? That's that's great. 625 00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:24,960 Speaker 1: That's great. And like I think policing, if you can 626 00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:28,880 Speaker 1: prevent crime, it's you want to prevent crime. It makes 627 00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:31,040 Speaker 1: everyone's world a better place if you can, if you 628 00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:31,680 Speaker 1: can prevent it. 629 00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:33,800 Speaker 2: So we'll go back to that education in this. We've 630 00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:37,480 Speaker 2: got to educate the perpetrator most definitely. 631 00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:42,160 Speaker 1: We've talked about programs coming in legislation, different things that 632 00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:45,400 Speaker 1: you can done. I know in the conversation you guys 633 00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:49,400 Speaker 1: we had had the other day, we're talking about people. Friends. 634 00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:52,200 Speaker 1: You me have got to call out other people before 635 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:54,960 Speaker 1: we see it going bad and not take that sort 636 00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:57,040 Speaker 1: of it's a little bit awkward. I don't want to 637 00:32:57,040 --> 00:33:00,600 Speaker 1: buy into this. So if we see things happening as 638 00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:04,520 Speaker 1: a friend, as a friend, associate or whatever, you've got 639 00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:06,480 Speaker 1: to speak up. Would you guys agree on that. 640 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:09,680 Speaker 3: Very much, so very much so even just to hear 641 00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:13,360 Speaker 3: your friends said, your derogatory remark about a woman, you know, 642 00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:15,880 Speaker 3: so mate, we don't do that anymore. 643 00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:19,480 Speaker 2: Not cool. And I think that's our other program too, 644 00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:23,800 Speaker 2: is called Hannah's Story. So that's for more the adult 645 00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:28,040 Speaker 2: corporate sort of thing football or clubs, you know, And 646 00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:32,440 Speaker 2: that's been that started rolling out late last year and 647 00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:35,840 Speaker 2: Michael j has done all the framework for it. So 648 00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:42,360 Speaker 2: Michael's an educated talker speaker, and he has done this 649 00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:47,480 Speaker 2: on the podcast Hannah's Story. So it's gender based. Of course, 650 00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:50,720 Speaker 2: it's Hannah's Story and there's that so many red flags 651 00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:55,600 Speaker 2: there and it's quite hard hitting, very to the bone. 652 00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:00,800 Speaker 2: But it has got some great reviews. He delivers it 653 00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:03,560 Speaker 2: as a male to talking about a male doing the 654 00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:06,000 Speaker 2: wrong thing. And I think, you know, it's a good 655 00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:08,880 Speaker 2: program because it shows you the red flags, it shows 656 00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:11,799 Speaker 2: you what to look for and actually, yeah, speak about it. 657 00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:15,359 Speaker 3: Gives it a true life story. Yes, that's the fart 658 00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:16,960 Speaker 3: of Hannah and the kids. And also he has some 659 00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:19,520 Speaker 3: of the clips from the police cams when they were 660 00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:22,160 Speaker 3: dealing with so people can see. 661 00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:25,239 Speaker 1: So and so you may made the point you know 662 00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:28,800 Speaker 1: if people sitting around and they say something derogatory or whatever, 663 00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:31,439 Speaker 1: and Lloyd, you would have seen that you sit and 664 00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:32,040 Speaker 1: they're not. 665 00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:35,240 Speaker 2: As part of it. Yeah, as a football playing football, 666 00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:36,920 Speaker 2: we all made those comments and. 667 00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:39,360 Speaker 1: I could imagine that bitch of a wife wants me 668 00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:42,040 Speaker 1: to go home. Yeah, something like that. We don't have 669 00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:44,160 Speaker 1: to get too precious, but we've got to. Yeah, the 670 00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:46,279 Speaker 1: world has changed and we've got to go. If this 671 00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:49,760 Speaker 1: blake is, if it's not said in total jest or nothing, 672 00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:51,719 Speaker 1: they've got to be called on it. You shouldn't be 673 00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:54,280 Speaker 1: speaking about your wife like that's a bit of respect. 674 00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:55,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. 675 00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:58,640 Speaker 1: And it's not that hard, is It Really just takes 676 00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:00,719 Speaker 1: a bit of ticker just to stand up sometimes and 677 00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:05,480 Speaker 1: not just sort of shy away from it. Hey, guys, 678 00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:08,160 Speaker 1: have you ever wondered what goes on behind the headlines 679 00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:10,360 Speaker 1: of a gang war or shooting? Then you need to 680 00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:13,680 Speaker 1: listen to crim City. Join crime reporters Mark Murray and 681 00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:17,360 Speaker 1: Josh Hamrahan as they uncover the details of crimes unfolding 682 00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:20,040 Speaker 1: on Sydney streets and share the stories that don't make 683 00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:23,160 Speaker 1: the papers. The latest season of crim City is out now. 684 00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:26,160 Speaker 1: Listen early and ad free on Crime x Plus on 685 00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:31,240 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts Today Your life, Guys, you wouldn't have expected 686 00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:35,400 Speaker 1: your life to be where it is now. You talked 687 00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:38,600 Speaker 1: at the Starter part one about you have to continue 688 00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:43,520 Speaker 1: on because you've got family. What other option have you got? 689 00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:49,080 Speaker 1: Look at looking back, what they think life's all about 690 00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:51,399 Speaker 1: for you to now? Is it a day to day 691 00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:55,160 Speaker 1: struggle or you've got purpose or you've got the memories. 692 00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:59,480 Speaker 3: Day to day struggles still, really it is to hope 693 00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:03,640 Speaker 3: with and then other days you feel you're on top 694 00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:07,160 Speaker 3: of it and you've got some goals, and then back 695 00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:07,839 Speaker 3: to square one. 696 00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:14,920 Speaker 2: It's yeah, yeah, I don't know. Every year since I 697 00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:18,640 Speaker 2: think I feel top more tired. I just starting to 698 00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:21,440 Speaker 2: lose a bit of that zest, that energy I suppose, 699 00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:24,359 Speaker 2: you know, just sort of get out there and keep 700 00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:27,560 Speaker 2: knocking on doors, trying to talk to politicians, do and 701 00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:31,879 Speaker 2: report interviews, and that just find it harder this year. 702 00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:34,680 Speaker 2: I don't know, Maybe it's just that third fourth year 703 00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:38,400 Speaker 2: coming around. Maybe just need a really good break. But 704 00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:41,040 Speaker 2: we had a good break over Christmas, so and I 705 00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:43,160 Speaker 2: was ready to thinking, well, OK, this year, we've got 706 00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:44,920 Speaker 2: a few things lined up, but we want to sort 707 00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:47,040 Speaker 2: of just step back this year a bit, just let 708 00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:50,359 Speaker 2: the education, let the boys concentrate on that and help 709 00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:53,200 Speaker 2: out wherever we can there. It's sort of it's been 710 00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:56,680 Speaker 2: an emotional ride again, you know, sort of yeah, knock 711 00:36:56,719 --> 00:36:58,520 Speaker 2: us about a bit, but you know, we've sort of 712 00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:00,759 Speaker 2: got to keep just moving on and I think we'll 713 00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:03,719 Speaker 2: just take it slowly this year. And we're actually going 714 00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:07,400 Speaker 2: down to New South Wales to do a presentation to 715 00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:12,439 Speaker 2: the New South Wales Police. They've asked us starting yeah, yeah, 716 00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:16,000 Speaker 2: and we were so grateful to be honored to be 717 00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:17,640 Speaker 2: asked to go down there and talk to them. 718 00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:21,359 Speaker 1: I think that's such a great idea by a New 719 00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:23,719 Speaker 1: South Wales Police to get you involved, because I know 720 00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:25,840 Speaker 1: if police sit there that can be a bit cynical. 721 00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:28,719 Speaker 1: You guys come down there and tell your story and 722 00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:31,439 Speaker 1: that and there won't be a person in the room 723 00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:35,160 Speaker 1: that's not sort of switch switched onto it. So that's good. 724 00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:38,319 Speaker 1: You've got to make sure you look after yourselves guys too, 725 00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:41,440 Speaker 1: Like I've seen people through my years in homicide that 726 00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:44,480 Speaker 1: they're on that campaign. You've got to be able to 727 00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:45,600 Speaker 1: look after yourself. 728 00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:46,560 Speaker 2: And that's what I'm going to take a bit of 729 00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:47,719 Speaker 2: time this year and just. 730 00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:51,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and I think even that that function before 731 00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:53,920 Speaker 1: the COVID lockdown, you guys said to me, and I 732 00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:56,680 Speaker 1: still still remember it, that you're just tired. You know, 733 00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:59,080 Speaker 1: you're doing so many things and you've been pulled from 734 00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:03,440 Speaker 1: pillar to post. I say to you, and I pulled 735 00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:06,799 Speaker 1: you into the podcast. I'm saying, take it easy. What 736 00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:10,000 Speaker 1: a hypocrite I am. But the work that you're doing 737 00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:13,400 Speaker 1: is worthwhile. You are you are, you are definitely making 738 00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:17,680 Speaker 1: a difference, and you've inspired me just sitting down talking 739 00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:19,200 Speaker 1: to you, because I think a couple of things that 740 00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:22,920 Speaker 1: we stumble across or you're thought of, it's just so obvious, 741 00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:27,319 Speaker 1: isn't it, like with the coercive control? Well, how does 742 00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:29,640 Speaker 1: it take us hundreds of years to work out we 743 00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:34,799 Speaker 1: needed this, like say, blatantly obvious ankle bracelets. Let's push that. 744 00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:36,920 Speaker 1: I'm going to champion that everywhere I go. Let's just 745 00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:40,680 Speaker 1: keep going ankle bracelet, ankle bracelet. I think that's the register. 746 00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:44,160 Speaker 1: We can get around that privacy stuff by just doing it. 747 00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:48,040 Speaker 1: I'll be the first one the register. I'll register do 748 00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:50,920 Speaker 1: it that way, and then education and. 749 00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:54,640 Speaker 2: I do believe that there has been a bit of 750 00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:58,560 Speaker 2: a shift between interstate police. They've done our information share 751 00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:00,000 Speaker 2: now yeah, yeah, is correct. 752 00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:04,759 Speaker 1: Policing is always evolveding they're trying to improve. No one's 753 00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:09,440 Speaker 1: going to policing policing too stuff up, so everyone's trying 754 00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:12,640 Speaker 1: to make it better in policing. And yeah, there's no 755 00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:15,600 Speaker 1: one if you've seen with the police that you've come across, 756 00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:18,840 Speaker 1: attending crimes like that. No one wants to attend crimes 757 00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:20,960 Speaker 1: like that and the impacts on them, So everyone wants 758 00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:23,960 Speaker 1: to do a better job. I think we're understanding domestic 759 00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:26,160 Speaker 1: violence on the national level. As you said, the federal 760 00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:29,560 Speaker 1: government have got him. One of the impressive people I 761 00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:33,880 Speaker 1: had on the podcast. She was a police officer, but 762 00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:36,400 Speaker 1: she was also a victim of that coercive control and 763 00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:38,920 Speaker 1: domestic violence and all that, and it was really interesting 764 00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:42,319 Speaker 1: the insight. And she's thinking, I'm a police officer, how 765 00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:45,400 Speaker 1: can I be a victim because and I think a 766 00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:48,760 Speaker 1: lot of people think that way, and then really dawned 767 00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:49,960 Speaker 1: on it, Well, I am a victim. 768 00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:50,560 Speaker 2: I'm one of. 769 00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:53,279 Speaker 1: These people that I go to help. And she's got 770 00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:56,560 Speaker 1: an interesting insight into policing and what can be done 771 00:39:56,600 --> 00:40:01,040 Speaker 1: on the domestic violence. So we've all these people working. 772 00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:04,240 Speaker 1: You sound like you're getting a good team around around yourselves. 773 00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:07,080 Speaker 2: We are well And I mean, like I said, we 774 00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:10,800 Speaker 2: just decided to have a conversation managed to get governments 775 00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:14,240 Speaker 2: and people to work together. Here in Queensland. We've managed 776 00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:16,160 Speaker 2: to get because we called a bit of a round 777 00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:18,880 Speaker 2: table or we wanted to learn more about courus of control. 778 00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:24,000 Speaker 2: We formed a little meeting thing once a month where 779 00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:28,879 Speaker 2: we held cours of controlled dinners and did separate things. 780 00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:32,640 Speaker 2: So other foundations they did some networking. We started collaborating. 781 00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:36,960 Speaker 2: I started. We managed to get the foundations working together 782 00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:38,920 Speaker 2: where we find here in Queensland and they tend to 783 00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:41,200 Speaker 2: fight against each other because they want the money, they 784 00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:44,879 Speaker 2: want the thing, And I just think, how why we've 785 00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:48,600 Speaker 2: all got the same purpose. We just got that common goal. 786 00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:49,640 Speaker 2: Can't we worked together? 787 00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:52,120 Speaker 1: I think the beauty of you two and you flagger 788 00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:54,200 Speaker 1: it as if it's a negative ice sad, there's a positive. 789 00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:57,160 Speaker 1: You gone, we're just average people and you cut through 790 00:40:57,200 --> 00:41:00,279 Speaker 1: the bullshit and go it's not that complicated. So you 791 00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:03,040 Speaker 1: don't ever think things. You just well, why don't we 792 00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:05,799 Speaker 1: do that? And I think that's what resonates with and I. 793 00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:08,560 Speaker 2: Think what woman said to me too, from one of 794 00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:10,880 Speaker 2: the foundations. I got up and said something one day. 795 00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:13,520 Speaker 2: She said, geez, I love you lord. You just don't 796 00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:15,839 Speaker 2: beat around the bush. You just say as it is 797 00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:18,719 Speaker 2: and then sit down. I said, Well, I don't want 798 00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:21,840 Speaker 2: to drag on and do a thousand words. I just 799 00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:24,040 Speaker 2: want to get my point across. And I'm just a 800 00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:26,839 Speaker 2: simple person. So that's how I just want. I think 801 00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:29,799 Speaker 2: life should be simple. Why should it be complicated? Well, 802 00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:31,320 Speaker 2: we over complicate things. 803 00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:33,960 Speaker 1: Too much, I agree, And that's the beauty of what 804 00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:36,440 Speaker 1: you guys are, what you guys are doing. So I 805 00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:39,480 Speaker 1: just want to firstly thank you for coming on the 806 00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:43,200 Speaker 1: podcast and sharing your story because I know, no, it's 807 00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:47,319 Speaker 1: not easy. But when I say people like you inspire me, 808 00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:51,160 Speaker 1: I mean that because what you've overcome and how you've 809 00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:54,680 Speaker 1: tried to steer your life in a positive direction, full 810 00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:56,960 Speaker 1: credit to you, and the fact that you've stayed together. 811 00:41:57,040 --> 00:41:59,840 Speaker 1: You must go through some tough times, and yeah, I 812 00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:02,279 Speaker 1: can see the support I saw at the moment I 813 00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:05,239 Speaker 1: sat down beside you for that lunch, that you had 814 00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:07,680 Speaker 1: each other's backs, and it's beautiful to see. 815 00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:10,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we always have them, have we talk. 816 00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:12,520 Speaker 2: We talk, yeah, most of the talk. 817 00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:20,359 Speaker 1: You can't say that, don't be disrespectful. Yeah, all right, 818 00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:23,919 Speaker 1: thanks guys for coming on. And let's stay in touch 819 00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:27,280 Speaker 1: and let's if I can push anything from the media 820 00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:29,920 Speaker 1: connections or whatever, let me know and vice versa. 821 00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:32,960 Speaker 2: Let's stay in touchy. 822 00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:37,600 Speaker 1: Good, Okay, see your Lloyd s Sir Hi Gary. I 823 00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:39,719 Speaker 1: was a little bit worried about doing this podcast with 824 00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:43,040 Speaker 1: Lloyd and Sue. It's such a heavy, heavy topic. They 825 00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:46,640 Speaker 1: inspire me how do you overcome a tragedy like that? 826 00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:49,560 Speaker 1: They are inspirational people. You can still see the pain 827 00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:52,400 Speaker 1: it'ched on their faces and the emotion that they carry, 828 00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:56,319 Speaker 1: which is understandables losing their daughter and their three grandchildren. 829 00:42:57,040 --> 00:42:59,319 Speaker 1: But what inspires me most is the work that they're 830 00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:01,160 Speaker 1: doing to try and make sure this type of thing 831 00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:05,720 Speaker 1: doesn't happen. They are instrumental in campaigning for coercive control, 832 00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:08,279 Speaker 1: which is such a powerful legislation that I think will 833 00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:11,520 Speaker 1: make a big difference in the domestic violence space. Really 834 00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:15,320 Speaker 1: impressive people, just good people, as they call themselves, average people. 835 00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:17,759 Speaker 1: I think they're a little bit above average. They're inspirational 836 00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:21,040 Speaker 1: and just a tragedy that's happened, and that happens too 837 00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:24,200 Speaker 1: often in this country. A domestic and family violence