Speaker 1: Welcome to the mentor. I'm Mark Boris Damn Sam's welcome
Speaker 1: to the mentor.
Speaker 2: Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1: And now you're the founder or your co founder, but
Speaker 1: one of the one of the two co founders of
Speaker 1: the brand basic or Basic or Basic. I don't care
Speaker 1: what way you want to say it, but I would
Speaker 1: say I would I'd go back to tours and I'm
Speaker 1: going to say Basic, how's it go? Basic? It's good,
Speaker 1: that's little to do. And you're a fashion brand, so
Speaker 1: probably the most And I'm not a fashion person, so
Speaker 1: i'd like you if you don't mind explaining to me
Speaker 1: a what is a fashion brand? And what is the
Speaker 1: basic fashion brand? What do you stand for?
Speaker 2: Well, it's funny because I wouldn't actually, I mean, we're
Speaker 2: a design lead brand. We're not necessarily we are a
Speaker 2: fashion brand, but in a different sense, because it's.
Speaker 1: A good point. You're not sort of doing what's ever fashionable,
Speaker 1: is what you mean? It's more about maybe classic.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're not following trends. I'm trying to trying to
Speaker 2: design purposeful clothing that's beautiful, that's luxurious, and it makes
Speaker 2: sense that people need and it needs to be aspirational.
Speaker 1: As well.
Speaker 2: So there's a sense of luxury and a good feeling
Speaker 2: when you buy our brand. But it's not necessarily people
Speaker 2: buying it because they want to look super trendy or
Speaker 2: super cool. That's my view on it. I mean, I
Speaker 2: think our customer feels good in it, they feel safe
Speaker 2: in it, and they aspire to look a certain way,
Speaker 2: and they pay the money because it's not you know,
Speaker 2: we're not fast fashioned. We're locally produced. So that's a
Speaker 2: big part of what we do, the sustainability, the locally
Speaker 2: produced timeless. I suppose classic and I think you know,
Speaker 2: I design products that last. So a basic T shirt
Speaker 2: you buy, it'll be a good T shirt, you wear
Speaker 2: it only out, you'll save it, and then after two
Speaker 2: or three years it'll become the T shirt that you
Speaker 2: might wear to the gym and then maybe you wear
Speaker 2: it to bed in ten years time, or polish your
Speaker 2: car with it, you know what I mean. Like it's
Speaker 2: Scott Longevity our brand.
Speaker 1: Do you mind if we just lean into that whole
Speaker 1: fashion bit and fast fashion. Fashion is when I use
Speaker 1: the word fashion, I'm sort of talking about not necessarily
Speaker 1: what's fashionable, but I'm talking about sort of clothes clothing brand,
Speaker 1: clothing brands, I mean as opposed to it being fashionable.
Speaker 1: Maybe just leaning Toto this for a second though. So
Speaker 1: I've had a I used to have a mate I
Speaker 1: still have made it still live. He's be in his
Speaker 1: nineties now and his wife used to have a clothing
Speaker 1: boutique in Double Bay. It was called Shirley B. And
Speaker 1: Shirley used to sell high end brands. Her husband, George Bloomfield,
Speaker 1: was a clothing guy. Maybe it's the best way I
Speaker 1: could put it to. And he knew all the right
Speaker 1: ways to get a suit made, likeself and travel overseas,
Speaker 1: and he'd say it to someone to give me three buttons,
Speaker 1: and you know, he's had all these sort of terminologies,
Speaker 1: and he's very good at sort of helping me work
Speaker 1: out because I'm an absolute bogan where I grew up
Speaker 1: and I knew nothing about men's clothing, not a s past. No,
Speaker 1: it's the truth. Because my very first suit with a
Speaker 1: light green suit and I had a brown shirt and
Speaker 1: I got it made at a place called Pineapple Joe's
Speaker 1: in George Street, which is we're now where the QVB
Speaker 1: building was is there used to be a whole series
Speaker 1: of what George is a Jewish guy, and they called
Speaker 1: his school Schmutters. There's a whole series of Taylor's and
Speaker 1: they had this was an Indian guy there and he
Speaker 1: had this shop and you walked in there when I
Speaker 1: was eight, and he went to get a suit and
Speaker 1: you choose your own material for the suit, then he
Speaker 1: may your shirt. So I got a light green suit
Speaker 1: because I thought the low ground looked nice. And I
Speaker 1: got a pair of brown light light like pustachio green. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And was it summer No, I don't know. I just
Speaker 1: it was sort of had I had won for my
Speaker 1: first job. Yeah, and had a dark brown shirt, and
Speaker 1: I had a brown Paisley tie brown Paisley brown and
Speaker 1: black because it was a Paisley period and I had
Speaker 1: a pear of brown shoes. I didn't realize you need
Speaker 1: to get one or two suits, more than one suit.
Speaker 1: And I used to get every Saturday take down the
Speaker 1: same day dry cleaning joint and get it cleaned up
Speaker 1: and pine auble Joe's and I can't It wasn't very
Speaker 1: expensive suit one hundred and fifty bucks or something like that,
Speaker 1: but I had no idea anyway. George used to sort
Speaker 1: of helped me out over time. And he used to
Speaker 1: have this saying, I can't remember how it went, but
Speaker 1: it was something as classics is all about style, and
Speaker 1: fashions about something else. But he used to always say, Mark,
Speaker 1: whenever you get something, gets something that lasts through all
Speaker 1: the fashionable periods. So maybe this year we got thin lapel.
Speaker 1: Next year we've got a broader lapel for the suit.
Speaker 1: I grew up in a suit period where everyone was
Speaker 1: wearing suits to work. The ties were you'd have a
Speaker 1: period of striped ties they go. You have a period
Speaker 1: where Paisley ties of the go, then you'd have a
Speaker 1: plain tie. He's just say he's get a plaine suit,
Speaker 1: maybe blue, maybe a gray one. And maybe when I
Speaker 1: was younger, I have a black suit as well. Get
Speaker 1: a white shirt at all. Just get a tie that suits.
Speaker 1: There's the same color solid I used to call it.
Speaker 1: Solidities were the same as your jacket. If you've got
Speaker 1: a blue suit, blue tie, and wear dark black shoes,
Speaker 1: black shoes.
Speaker 2: Perfect.
Speaker 1: And he had this thing about classics versus fashion, and
Speaker 1: it was about, like you just said, about being out
Speaker 1: of wear every year, because if you get the fashion
Speaker 1: this year, you can't wear anische because there's a different one.
Speaker 2: And why I over complicate your life because you don't
Speaker 2: want to have to make decisions every morning, because you've
Speaker 2: got enough decisions to make that day on what to wear.
Speaker 2: So that's what we do. We make it really easy.
Speaker 2: And I disliked to design thing. I mean, there's a
Speaker 2: perfectionism in what I do in terms of quality, quality,
Speaker 2: cut everything, the make, the fabrication, it has to be
Speaker 2: the best quality, and I'm really particular about that. So
Speaker 2: something so simple as a T shirt, it actually takes
Speaker 2: about eight steps to make a T shirt in Australia.
Speaker 2: So we chose our own yarn, We designed our own fabric.
Speaker 2: It's got a very dry handle. That's for a reason
Speaker 2: a dry handle is it's from the type of plant
Speaker 2: that it's from. So I wanted to have a bit
Speaker 2: more of a vintage feel. I wanted it to be
Speaker 2: super fine, but not too fine.
Speaker 1: For the T shirt.
Speaker 2: Yeah, for the jersey, because that's where we started. We
Speaker 2: started as a jersey brand.
Speaker 1: What's a jersey brand?
Speaker 2: So jersey is a type of like it's a fabrication,
Speaker 2: it's a knit, so cotton, the cotton T shirt is
Speaker 2: a jersey. So When we started the brand, it was
Speaker 2: like just a jersey collection, but we did jersey pants,
Speaker 2: jersey oversized teas, jersey fitted teas, jersey dresses, and that's
Speaker 2: sort of the premise of the brand. It was about
Speaker 2: using organic cotton that was eighteen years ago, so we
Speaker 2: had a choice. We could choose our yarn the supplier
Speaker 2: we actually, funnily enough, we had a really great contact
Speaker 2: the people that supplied Bonds their fabrics.
Speaker 1: In Bonds Bonds Underwear and Stop.
Speaker 2: Took us on. So they basically had two customers, Bonds
Speaker 2: and a startup which was us, and we got to
Speaker 2: go into their archive, which went back about two hundred
Speaker 2: years and choose the particular type of cotton we wanted.
Speaker 1: They get there, old Bonds, are they probably well, it could.
Speaker 2: Be exactly whatever, but like old, I mean like we were.
Speaker 2: We were in like the bowels of this factory in
Speaker 2: Wentworth going through this two hundred this very old archive.
Speaker 1: And the Australian are they this is shit?
Speaker 2: Well yeah, because I mean Bonds used to be locally manufactured,
Speaker 2: so I think it went off for about fifteen years ago,
Speaker 2: and we had this opportunity to access the whole archive
Speaker 2: of their libraries, Yeah, from when they started. So it
Speaker 2: was crazy, and we chose this fabric and this is
Speaker 2: a really this is a well kept secret, but I'm
Speaker 2: going to share it.
Speaker 1: Brought to you first today on the mental.
Speaker 2: It was chosen from a pair of women's cottontails.
Speaker 1: Cotton tail, yeah, I remember those cottontail.
Speaker 2: Really the really yeah yeah. And it just had the
Speaker 2: right you know, it was not too fine, it just
Speaker 2: had the right feel. So that's where our fabric came from.
Speaker 2: Our yen came from.
Speaker 1: For your T shirts, for our T shirt. So I'd
Speaker 1: imagine therefore, if it's meant to be worn close to
Speaker 1: your body, in that part of the region of your
Speaker 1: body is probably soft.
Speaker 2: Yeah, beautiful.
Speaker 1: I mean can you can you do they grade fabric
Speaker 1: by softness? Do they sort of say soft very soft,
Speaker 1: like you know, like a diamond, very bright like?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean there's all different types of finishes. So
Speaker 2: obviously the yarn, it starts with your yarn, and then
Speaker 2: you can put finishes on your cotton like you can
Speaker 2: mercerize your cotton. We wanted something that was really unique,
Speaker 2: so I wanted to come out with this brand that
Speaker 2: had this cotton that you couldn't get anywhere else. And
Speaker 2: it was at a time in the market where there
Speaker 2: was no one doing what we did. Luxury basics was
Speaker 2: not a generic term. It is now everyone's doing luxury basics.
Speaker 2: So we were one of the first cabs off the
Speaker 2: rank in Australia.
Speaker 1: How long are we talking about now? Eight years ago?
Speaker 1: So eighteen years ago you got into the archives of
Speaker 1: the Bond Clothing Company, which got nothing to do with
Speaker 1: that bond but it's called Astracol Bonds I think it's plural. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and you chose something from there. What was the original
Speaker 1: cotton toil underwear for women?
Speaker 2: Men?
Speaker 1: Walk contails women member granny unused, Yeah, sort I remember enough,
Speaker 1: remember those ads and and you know, because those days,
Speaker 1: you know, like briefs like they are today or g
Speaker 1: strings and things like that, that that wasn't a thing
Speaker 1: in Australia. It was cotton tails. And you chose that
Speaker 1: that fabric I think the right term is fabric and
Speaker 1: off that you built you well, you designed your T shirt,
Speaker 1: So that's that's the fabric. Yeah, I mean, there's that's
Speaker 1: a fabric, but there's whole lot of other stuff goes
Speaker 1: with it too. There's the the actual guy design of
Speaker 1: the Yes, how did you work that out? Let's go
Speaker 1: back then, though I want to go back, but like
Speaker 1: because you know what about how you started your business up.
Speaker 2: So we had an esthetic and the whole inspiration behind
Speaker 2: the brand was that Lou and I we lose your
Speaker 2: founding partner, but we're no longer, so we we had this.
Speaker 2: We had this idea because we were traveling overseas. We
Speaker 2: were buying really expensive T shirts because they were the beautiful,
Speaker 2: fine cotton. But you bring them home and you couldn't
Speaker 2: wash them. You had to dry clean them and shrink. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and there were two they just wantn't they'd shrink, they
Speaker 2: just wouldn't wear properly. So we came up with this
Speaker 2: concept where we're going to do the same luxurious, minimalist
Speaker 2: luxury tea, but we're going to pre shrink them for everyone,
Speaker 2: so you can actually just put them in the wash
Speaker 2: and the dryer and they come back the same size
Speaker 2: as they did when you bought them.
Speaker 1: Could I actually just not before I want to hear
Speaker 1: the rest of the story of it. We're just just
Speaker 1: whiles I think of it. Pre shrinking. Do you actually
Speaker 1: wash them before you send them out? Is that how
Speaker 1: it works.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's that's something probably people don't know. Do
Speaker 2: you find that annoying when you buy a T shirt and.
Speaker 1: Then kills me buying the next size up just in case?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that doesn't happen with our T shirts. So
Speaker 2: that was the whole concept and the premise behind the brand.
Speaker 2: It was very much about luxury, but everyday luxury that
Speaker 2: you could just launder, you could put in the dryer,
Speaker 2: and it was just a no brainer. And we had
Speaker 2: such great connections from like working in the industry for
Speaker 2: so many years that we positioned it in high end
Speaker 2: boutiques in Australia, and at that time there were many
Speaker 2: because the economy was two thousand and six, it was
Speaker 2: prest GFC, not GST, and it just went bang, It
Speaker 2: just flew. And I think we had like forty accounts
Speaker 2: in the first season.
Speaker 1: Meaning forty distribution points.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, and this is like Kaien you know that
Speaker 2: sold lots of different international brands.
Speaker 1: For example currently agents for examples, David Jones an example.
Speaker 2: Not then. I mean we stocked David Jones now, but
Speaker 2: that was like a bit like oh no, we're we're
Speaker 2: not stocking David Jonesans. Yet it was a bit like
Speaker 2: I think it was five or six years until we relented.
Speaker 1: Can you an example where.
Speaker 2: So you know, remember the Belinda stores Belinda, No, okay,
Speaker 2: there's you know stores like Puopka just really the fat
Speaker 2: stores in Melbourne, Cactus Doam Island Lux. Have you heard
Speaker 2: about it. Yeah, so we've stopped them. Yeah, we've stopped
Speaker 2: them since day one our first season, we still stopped them.
Speaker 2: So yeah, we positioned the brand very high end but
Speaker 2: not unattainable. And then our price point was you know,
Speaker 2: it was eighty dollars for a T shirt, so at
Speaker 2: that time that was an investment, but it wasn't out
Speaker 2: of It was actually okay for some people, and it
Speaker 2: just went crazy immediately. However, there was one little slight
Speaker 2: hiccup on the way through, so our first delivery three
Speaker 2: months late and everything came in. We got the shrinkage
Speaker 2: wrong on the continent. So it's actually really hard to
Speaker 2: make a good fitting T shirt. Surprisingly you would think not,
Speaker 2: but with jersey jerseys shrink there's a warp in a weft,
Speaker 2: so they shrink very differently, and each batch also shrinks differently,
Speaker 2: so you have to make a pattern check the shrinkage.
Speaker 2: So you wash a piece of fabric, you see how
Speaker 2: much it shrinks. You then apply that to the pattern,
Speaker 2: just the pattern, Yeah, to allow for that shrinkage. However,
Speaker 2: it was our first production run and we got that wrong.
Speaker 1: Is it because you didn't shrink the fabric first?
Speaker 2: I actually don't know that. I mean it could have
Speaker 2: been a number of reasons, but it was like pretty diabolical.
Speaker 1: How much had you invested?
Speaker 2: I mean we had like big orders for a first season,
Speaker 2: and so then our esthetic became a little bit more oversized.
Speaker 2: So we basically had to turn this massive error error
Speaker 2: I was going to say something rude, but into.
Speaker 1: A fuck up you can see for Yeah, it was
Speaker 1: a big.
Speaker 2: Fuck up, and we had to turn that into like,
Speaker 2: oh no, but you know it's a slouch it's a
Speaker 2: slouch tea.
Speaker 1: Which means oversized. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Anyway, somehow we pulled it off. That all the stores
Speaker 2: were hating us because it was Christmas time. They wanted
Speaker 2: their deliveries, they were trying to cancel. They were like, okay,
Speaker 2: we'll take it sale or return. So we were like, okay,
Speaker 2: just take it.
Speaker 1: Which means if they don't sell, you get it.
Speaker 2: Back. Yeah, so they need pay for what they sell. Anyway,
Speaker 2: Thank god we delivered, it's sold, they reordered, and we're
Speaker 2: still in business.
Speaker 1: And the name basic does that that sounds given what
Speaker 1: you're just explained, it sounds quite purposeful in terms of
Speaker 1: being able to identify the features you're trying to sell
Speaker 1: or you're trying to you're trying to build into what
Speaker 1: you're selling. Sounds to be. It sounds to me as
Speaker 1: though you try to put it into the name.
Speaker 2: It's basic, Yeah, it is what it is. Yeah, it's
Speaker 2: like there's no tricks, no. And that's the thing about
Speaker 2: our brand. It is very simple. It is very honest,
Speaker 2: it's authentic, it has its own brand in a and
Speaker 2: it's simple. It's basic.
Speaker 1: Can I just on that? Then if I was to
Speaker 1: pick a couple of words to describe your brand, maybe
Speaker 1: if you were to pick a couple words to describe
Speaker 1: your brand simple as one would, what are some other words?
Speaker 1: Is reliable, consistent, persistent? What are some other things that
Speaker 1: come out?
Speaker 2: I think we're designed?
Speaker 1: Let what does that mean?
Speaker 2: Well, we're not just there's a lot that goes into
Speaker 2: the design, Like there's a lot of I mean, I'm
Speaker 2: a perfectionist, and I have a certain way of seeing
Speaker 2: things that others don't. I have a very esthetic eye,
Speaker 2: so I know how a T shirt should fit. And look,
Speaker 2: whether it's a snap.
Speaker 1: We're getting worried now, a jacket off careful.
Speaker 2: So you know, And there's nuances behind the way we design.
Speaker 2: There's little details in our T shirts. So when we started,
Speaker 2: we did everything with raw hems, not.
Speaker 1: Sewed. Yeah, is that what that means? Hit a little
Speaker 1: bit untidy.
Speaker 2: And it just made the T shirt unique and it
Speaker 2: gave it a point of difference and it was a
Speaker 2: little bit more fashion, but it wasn't unwearable.
Speaker 1: It was cool.
Speaker 2: That was like a cool detail, and that was what
Speaker 2: we were known for. And then there were things like
Speaker 2: a chain stitch back neeck detail that we would do
Speaker 2: this for.
Speaker 1: No, I don't be just is for both male and female. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the brand is you don't have a male and a female,
Speaker 1: it's just one for both your men's and women.
Speaker 2: Right yea yeah.
Speaker 1: And so did you apply those back then? Did you
Speaker 1: apply that that those little nuances to both male and female? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, And we wanted and that's the thing.
Speaker 1: What are you trying to do? What were you trying
Speaker 1: to do. How were you? What was the message you're
Speaker 1: trying to teach everybody.
Speaker 2: Trying to establish a brand?
Speaker 1: DNA and what is that?
Speaker 2: That's that's your what is your make yourself? What's the
Speaker 2: word for it? I think.
Speaker 1: Unique because I think T shirts a good T shirts cool? Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2: I mean for me, I'm not into fashion people taking
Speaker 2: themselves too seriously, you know what I mean? And I
Speaker 2: often say that to myself when I get overwhelmed at work.
Speaker 2: I'm like, you're not running the United Nations here, You're
Speaker 2: making T shirts like zoom out like it's okay. And
Speaker 2: I think I'm not into dressing, Like I am into fashion,
Speaker 2: but I'm not into dressing too seriously. And I think
Speaker 2: my customer. The way I like to see people dress
Speaker 2: is just like like they're not trying too hard. It's
Speaker 2: not like a big thing that I'm trying to impress,
Speaker 2: but they do take pride in the way they look
Speaker 2: and they want to look good. And that's that's our brand.
Speaker 1: Just just on that this So is there danger and
Speaker 1: maybe you did the work on it, but is there
Speaker 1: danger particularly in clothing? I won't say fashion with clothing
Speaker 1: and clothing for a manufacturer like you to make a
Speaker 1: decision as to what everybody wants or what will work,
Speaker 1: what will sell based on your own one or does
Speaker 1: someone like you and your business partner of the time,
Speaker 1: do you go out and survey what people? Mean? How
Speaker 1: do you work out what everybody's happy with? Apart from
Speaker 1: the fact that you know you think it's cool. How
Speaker 1: do you get around that that issue?
Speaker 2: Look, I think there's a lot of I mean, I
Speaker 2: design very intuitively, so.
Speaker 1: Based on what though, I mean, apart from your intuition, like.
Speaker 2: Research, based on what I feel, based on what I see,
Speaker 2: based on the reality of like where we live. Who
Speaker 2: are customer is, what their lifestyle is, what sells? I mean,
Speaker 2: I obviously I think fashion is about looking forward. I
Speaker 2: don't think it's looking too far back. But at the
Speaker 2: same time, your results are going to tell you what's
Speaker 2: working or not. So it's important to tap into your
Speaker 2: customer and understand what they want as well.
Speaker 1: How do you do that? How did you and your
Speaker 1: Mary Lou I think was your founder cover How did
Speaker 1: you which one of you did that?
Speaker 2: Did you we both did it? I mean I think
Speaker 2: like ultimately, I think when you start up, like you're
Speaker 2: creating something from the ground up. So it's about creating
Speaker 2: something that is very unique and your own thing and
Speaker 2: honest and not really looking too much around you. But
Speaker 2: actually it's really quite a personal thing when you're starting up,
Speaker 2: and you can do that to a point, and then
Speaker 2: when your business gets a certain size, it's like, okay,
Speaker 2: now this is like the game has changed here, don't
Speaker 2: there's not as much room for error. And so I mean,
Speaker 2: we have nine retail stores in Australia, so there's a
Speaker 2: lot of intel that comes through.
Speaker 1: That as in feedback.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a lot. We've got very engaged customers that
Speaker 2: give us feedback, Like we have people emailing all the time,
Speaker 2: Oh can you bring back that pant from ten years ago?
Speaker 2: That my favorite? It's worn out. Now we get a
Speaker 2: lot of that. And then it's just crystal ball stuff.
Speaker 2: You know. I design a collection twelve months in advance,
Speaker 2: so I'm working on next winter. And so you just
Speaker 2: need to really tap into into intuition, read, read the market,
Speaker 2: understand you know what's going on with the economy as well.
Speaker 2: Like I think for us we're lucky. When the economy
Speaker 2: gets tough, people lean back into heritage brands. That they
Speaker 2: can trust. There's also the flip side of that, they're
Speaker 2: go into fast fashion. So I think fast fashion brands
Speaker 2: have never been is I think business is booming in
Speaker 2: Australia for fast, fast fashioned brands really yeah? Oh absolutely
Speaker 2: yeah yeah right now, absolutely yeah, because people don't have
Speaker 2: the disposable income.
Speaker 1: So fast fashion being something is fairly cheap. It's sort
Speaker 1: of you know, on theme.
Speaker 2: And they're good, some of them are really good. So yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean for us, we tap into a different customer
Speaker 2: and we have a very loyal customer and where our
Speaker 2: stores are positioned, we're accessible to that customer. So when
Speaker 2: the economy slumps, yeah, we do feel it, but often
Speaker 2: they come back to us because they know that they're
Speaker 2: going to buy that three ninety five pant and they're
Speaker 2: going to wear it to death, or the T shirt
Speaker 2: that they can go back to, So they often go
Speaker 2: back to brands I think they know and trust, and
Speaker 2: so it works for and against us.
Speaker 1: I think I'm going to gether break, going to come
Speaker 1: straight back, but you just said something very interesting around brand,
Speaker 1: and I do want to talk about brand with you.
Speaker 1: You said the words no and trust, and I want
Speaker 1: to know whether you may be actually able to do
Speaker 1: sort of dig a bit deep into that for us.
Speaker 1: And my question, I would ask you, if I know you,
Speaker 1: do I trust you? In other words, if I'm really
Speaker 1: used to you, I'm familiar with you. Therefore I automatically
Speaker 1: give you my trust fairly or more rapidly more likely
Speaker 1: to give you my trust if I don't know you.
Speaker 1: In other words, I don't see your shops, and I
Speaker 1: don't see your advertising, I don't see your marketing, and
Speaker 1: I haven't bought from you before. It takes a bit
Speaker 1: of time to build up trust, but knowledge and trust
Speaker 1: seem to be linked to me for me, but I
Speaker 1: want to go to the break comes straight back. I'm back
Speaker 1: here with Debs Hams, and she's the founder of Basic,
Speaker 1: and we've talked about sort of how the business kicked
Speaker 1: off a lifetime ago, nearly a lifetime ago. And today
Speaker 1: you have nine outlets you mentioned, I presume still are
Speaker 1: you selling online as well? You can buy on line.
Speaker 1: Are you still distributing through various stores as well? Yes,
Speaker 1: so you know, and I'm sure there's a lot more
Speaker 1: stores today than a lot more retail stores today than
Speaker 1: we're around. You were distributing through eighten years ago. But
Speaker 1: if I might just ask you this question, because we
Speaker 1: haven't covered this off. We were talking about T shirts.
Speaker 1: How many product lines or whatever the word excuse I
Speaker 1: think you guys call them. What do you do now
Speaker 1: apart from T shirts?
Speaker 2: So the evolution of the brand from a product level,
Speaker 2: we started with the jersey, the T shirts. Then we
Speaker 2: had an opportunity to work with a Japanese denim supplier.
Speaker 2: And do you know much about jeans, Well, I have jeans,
Speaker 2: but so the Japanese denim is arguably the best in
Speaker 2: the world.
Speaker 1: Okay, I didn't know Japanese there was a thing. There's
Speaker 1: a thing called Japanese denim. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So it's made different looms in Japan. Yeah, very traditional looms.
Speaker 2: So they're narrow, more narrow than the ones that they
Speaker 2: use now for mass production. So you get more just
Speaker 2: more beautiful denim, more authentic dinner.
Speaker 1: I've never heard denim called beautiful before. Well authentic, yes.
Speaker 2: Yes, I mean I'm passionate about this stuff. And so
Speaker 2: we had this opportunity to work with this beautiful denim
Speaker 2: maker in a place called Kojima in Japan.
Speaker 1: How does an opportunity come about? Like so people were
Speaker 1: just go, oh my god, I never had an opportunit
Speaker 1: my life. Do you chase these things or your emails?
Speaker 2: We didn't. I think we just had really great connections
Speaker 2: with people and Japan. Well know, actually in Australia and
Speaker 2: this friend of ours who was a fabric supplier, had
Speaker 2: this and he was into Japanese fabrics in Italian fabrics,
Speaker 2: and he introduced us to a denim mill and factory, Codima,
Speaker 2: and so this is like a best spoke downer making factory.
Speaker 2: They had fourteen machinists. The it's like third generation. Like
Speaker 2: it's honestly, this place is like going back in time.
Speaker 2: It's like the most amazing place to visit. And so
Speaker 2: we started making denim out of Japan.
Speaker 1: Yeah, just explain something to me. Sorry, just looking at it. SAMV.
Speaker 1: Just explained something to me. Please, Japanese down lake. So
Speaker 1: you just go back a few steps. So we're talking
Speaker 1: about denim's cotton, isn't it.
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, So the cotton comes from Japan, or cotton
Speaker 1: comes from it where all cotton comes from? I don't
Speaker 1: even know where that is, but.
Speaker 2: Not Japan, but yeah, comes from a different place.
Speaker 1: Okay, So but what's Japanese in what is it so
Speaker 1: tidal or yes, blue or something? I don't know.
Speaker 2: Okay, So it's the weaving process. So they make them
Speaker 2: on a much narrower loom loom so yeah, and they
Speaker 2: often come with a selvage And what's that. It's the
Speaker 2: it's the side of the denom, which is it's hard
Speaker 2: to explain, but it's just the site. It's basically the
Speaker 2: end of the denom, which is, if you have a
Speaker 2: selvage denom, it's a lot more expensive. It's a lot
Speaker 2: more luxurious than a regular denom. It's not mass produced.
Speaker 1: And if I was wearing it, which I'm not, does
Speaker 1: it feel different or is it more a look?
Speaker 2: Does feel different? Yeah? And it's a look too, and.
Speaker 1: I think, what are we looking at? What are we
Speaker 1: talking about here in terms of feel and look?
Speaker 2: So it feels how do I It's really hard to
Speaker 2: describe because it's it's one of those things that until
Speaker 2: you actually put it on, I suppose it's like driving
Speaker 2: a Masara, you know, an a sorry, a really good
Speaker 2: luxury car. Was about to say Aston Martin because that's
Speaker 2: my favorite car, or.
Speaker 1: Kia.
Speaker 2: It's the same thing. And you don't know the way,
Speaker 2: but you know, you get behind the wheel, you don't
Speaker 2: really know. So you know, you put on a pair
Speaker 2: of jeens. You know it fits, the fits perfect. It
Speaker 2: looks amazing and it feels right, And I think.
Speaker 1: That's that's lighter. Is it lighter?
Speaker 2: No, not necessarily, it's it's probably softer. And it's the
Speaker 2: way it wears and washes out is and the washes
Speaker 2: that you can do on it, so the different washes
Speaker 2: you can do it.
Speaker 1: And the women, generally speaking, and some men, perhaps not
Speaker 1: all men, as you would say, know that Japanese denim
Speaker 1: is it in a category above all the others.
Speaker 2: Look probably a very small percentage of.
Speaker 1: People, right. It's a sort of a specialist.
Speaker 2: It's like a purest thing, like you're either denim purist
Speaker 2: or you're not, you know. And I grew up in
Speaker 2: the industry because my dad was in the industry in
Speaker 2: the seventies and eighties. Remember the days of AMCO.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I sure do jeans.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, he was one of those.
Speaker 1: I remember the seventies. And I actually remember when surf
Speaker 1: Divans Ski opened their first door out where I was living,
Speaker 1: and and I was dying to get a pair of
Speaker 1: AMC jeans. Well that was from there, and my mum said,
Speaker 1: you've got to go on earn some money to buy them,
Speaker 1: because that's a pretty expensive for us. And I can't
Speaker 1: remember what they cost, but they were. I thought they
Speaker 1: were pretty expensive anyway, but everyone's everyone seemed like to
Speaker 1: me anyway as a kid rolling up everyone else's buying
Speaker 1: them felt that way. But I have a flair or
Speaker 1: they were fair and high our kids a high waisted
Speaker 1: floor were nice. That'll come back.
Speaker 2: Do I need to find a picture.
Speaker 1: Definitely. There's no phones there. There's no no phone cameras.
Speaker 1: At least there were. There was telephones, but they were
Speaker 1: sort of sitting on the little a little table in
Speaker 1: the in the hallway, and you sat down next to
Speaker 1: the phone to make all yes. So I know. Actually
Speaker 1: I diverted you from telling the story about because I
Speaker 1: got so fascinated by this thing called Japanese DNIM. But
Speaker 1: now we've established it as pretty special stuff. What happened
Speaker 1: with this Japanese DNIM introduction opportunity?
Speaker 2: So we created all these quite unique out there shapes,
Speaker 2: like our own signature between genes. Genes one in particular
Speaker 2: called the low slung.
Speaker 1: The low slung is that like down low.
Speaker 2: Yeah, low, yeah, and it's slung, you know, it's slung
Speaker 2: and a universal gene, which was a men's or a
Speaker 2: women's gene, so you know, like genderist clothing is now
Speaker 2: a thing, like you often go into a boutique and
Speaker 2: it's it's all together, and so we were doing that.
Speaker 2: Then we may this gene. So that became a bit
Speaker 2: of a staple for us, and all the right people
Speaker 2: were wearing it globally like I've still got I'll send you.
Speaker 1: And yeah.
Speaker 2: It was really successful to a point, and then it
Speaker 2: became not commercial anymore because we couldn't get the right
Speaker 2: margin to wholesale.
Speaker 1: It because it was expensive viewed by super expensive.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we were so passionate about it, and you know,
Speaker 2: as a founder you would know this. You get emotionally
Speaker 2: connected to things and then you don't want to let
Speaker 2: go of them, and then it comes to a point
Speaker 2: where you just have to be like, Okay, this is
Speaker 2: no longer working for us, what are we going to do?
Speaker 1: Tell me about that. But the decision or that period,
Speaker 1: like when you had to say it's time to discard
Speaker 1: this particular product.
Speaker 2: I think it just got to a point where like,
Speaker 2: you just look at your margin, you look at your profitability,
Speaker 2: and you're just like, what the hell what are we doing?
Speaker 2: You know? And I worked out they were probably making
Speaker 2: no money out of it and possibly losing and it
Speaker 2: was stupid.
Speaker 1: So you can ask you a question to could you
Speaker 1: have at some stage said, look, we'll just keep selling
Speaker 1: this as a lost leader, just to get people in
Speaker 1: because you know they might buy the jeans because they're great.
Speaker 1: And we did that. Yeah, and then I buy a
Speaker 1: two shirt where I make my money. Yeah, okay. Why
Speaker 1: did you then say I'm not going to do it anymore?
Speaker 2: Because we were just missing an opportunity because we were
Speaker 2: very good at making denim and people wanted it and
Speaker 2: our wholesale accounts wanted it. So we are about eighteen
Speaker 2: months ago, moved it back to Australia and we've got
Speaker 2: an amazing factory in Australia. We still buy the Japanese
Speaker 2: organic denim, and the Janes are as good, if not better, So.
Speaker 1: Still the same denim, just you're making here whereas before
Speaker 1: you're making him in Japan. And I mean by the
Speaker 1: time you got it here it was too expensive. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: so you still sell pants the jeans made out of
Speaker 1: Japanese dinner manufactured here in Australia. Yeah, okay, and so
Speaker 1: that actually was so was really I can understand why
Speaker 1: then you decided to run it as a lost leader
Speaker 1: because you can make the same proactive for cheap and
Speaker 1: make more money and you can still have the product.
Speaker 1: So I get it. That makes sense. Yeah, no brainer,
Speaker 1: totally no brainer. But eighty months ago, so it took
Speaker 1: you like fifteen years to make the decision or.
Speaker 2: Yeah it too, because I mean we were making money
Speaker 2: and then it got to a point where it was
Speaker 2: just it just got more and more expensive and it
Speaker 2: just yeah, we just needed to make some calls.
Speaker 1: So how many? So you've got jeans, you got t shirts? Obviously,
Speaker 1: what are the things you're doing now?
Speaker 2: So we do tailoring, like it's really beautiful tailoring.
Speaker 1: You made to measure sort of thing, not.
Speaker 2: Made to measure, but like I traveled to Italy twice
Speaker 2: a year and going to the fabric mills and develop
Speaker 2: bricks out of Florence and Milan and then design like
Speaker 2: a full tailoring line. We do ready to wear, which
Speaker 2: is just everything like we do pants, jackets, knitwear, shirting,
Speaker 2: We do everything now we do accessories, and I think
Speaker 2: the thing about me is I'm super particular about fabrication
Speaker 2: and quality, and it's probably to my own detriment in
Speaker 2: a way, because I think how business probably could have
Speaker 2: been more successful and more profitable if I was.
Speaker 1: A little more chilled. Well not yeah, maybe when it
Speaker 1: comes to the I just yeah.
Speaker 2: I'm super fastidious about quality, and it probably is to
Speaker 2: my own detriment. But on the flip side of that,
Speaker 2: maybe that's what's built our brand because the quality of
Speaker 2: our fabric means that everything lasts and it is more
Speaker 2: beautiful and you can see the difference. So yeah, we
Speaker 2: do it where like we do beautiful Kashmi collection, we
Speaker 2: do Dana, and we do shirting.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Everything.
Speaker 1: Now, So if we could just talk about your brand
Speaker 1: for a second. So in terms of what your brand
Speaker 1: stands for, I was obviously clothing, but I want to
Speaker 1: get to the experience, So the experience someone would associate
Speaker 1: with your brand. What do you think the experience is
Speaker 1: that someone associates with your brand as opposed to the
Speaker 1: utility I've got a dress or I got a pair
Speaker 1: of jeans, or whatever the case may be. And it's
Speaker 1: Japanese danim What is the experience that people would associate
Speaker 1: with the brand like yours. How do they feel?
Speaker 2: I think they just feel really good in it. I
Speaker 2: think they feel good. I think it's easy for them
Speaker 2: to wear. It makes sense with their lifestyle, It fits
Speaker 2: into their lifestyle, and they feel safe with it because
Speaker 2: they know that, you know, they're going to wear it.
Speaker 2: And I think that's the big thing for me designing clothing,
Speaker 2: because there is waste, and you know, we are sort
Speaker 2: of leaving a footprint on the planet, but at least
Speaker 2: we have to wear clothes. So at least if I'm
Speaker 2: designing things that people are going to wear and wear
Speaker 2: and wear and wear and not by a dress that
Speaker 2: is one like once a year or once, that for
Speaker 2: me feels good and I think for a customer as well,
Speaker 2: I think that's what they're looking for with our brand.
Speaker 1: And your brand is pronounced basic, but it's not spelled basic. Well,
Speaker 1: it is spell basic, but it's not spelt the basic way basic,
Speaker 1: So what's the thinking behind spelling and be a doabless?
Speaker 2: Okay, So that was a decision based on trademarking, and
Speaker 2: when that was it was actually difficult to choose a
Speaker 2: name we'd already designed the collection. It was the name,
Speaker 2: which was the hardest thing, and we I don't know
Speaker 2: how we came up with it, but we did. And
Speaker 2: then we had to go through the trademarking process to
Speaker 2: make sure that we could sell it in the US,
Speaker 2: sell it in Europe that the brand had the name
Speaker 2: hadn't already been used. And that was a real process actually,
Speaker 2: and it's taken years and you have to renew.
Speaker 1: It and it's it's expensive, too.
Speaker 2: Super expensive, you get you know, there was one point
Speaker 2: where we had so many ripoff versions of our brand
Speaker 2: coming out of China, people using our logo, people spelling
Speaker 2: it with one s BA SIK with a dot, like
Speaker 2: I mean, I just used to have It was almost
Speaker 2: like I had a spies on the ground, Like people
Speaker 2: just sending me stuff all the time. And it was
Speaker 2: like I used to get really annoyed with it, and
Speaker 2: then it was just like, you know, what can you do.
Speaker 2: You're not going to fight every every brand that pops up.
Speaker 2: It doesn't happen that much anymore, so Touch would so well.
Speaker 1: They used to say there was an old saying that
Speaker 1: the greatest form of admiration is emulation, and you know,
Speaker 1: if you're doing well and you're admired, someone will try
Speaker 1: to do the same thing. I do remember also because
Speaker 1: when I was still working in the law firm, we
Speaker 1: had a lot of rag trade clients, and I remember
Speaker 1: quite often they would go overseas to Milan or something
Speaker 1: like that, one of those sort of places, sometimes Asia,
Speaker 1: and they would bring they're gone by a whole lot
Speaker 1: of stuff, clothing, and they'll bring it back and they
Speaker 1: when they came through customs. I remember because I came
Speaker 1: back with the client one time and he had a
Speaker 1: bag full of stuff. He'd been to one of these
Speaker 1: shows whatever, but everything was cut so that you couldn't
Speaker 1: wear it, so you didn't have to pay customers studio.
Speaker 1: But what they do is they take the things and
Speaker 1: they would copy them. They would say, well, this is
Speaker 1: the latest thing going on.
Speaker 2: Oh no, that's standards all the time.
Speaker 1: So that would happen, so people would see your basic
Speaker 1: stuff and the same thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you can't like, I mean, we've done this
Speaker 2: pant that we cannot keep on the shelves. At the moment.
Speaker 2: That has basically revived our business because there was one point,
Speaker 2: you know, after the GSC that was a nightmare, and
Speaker 2: then we had COVID and everyone pivoted to casual clothing.
Speaker 2: So we did really well during COVID because everyone was
Speaker 2: working from home wearing like elevated basics. And then every
Speaker 2: other brand decided to do that concept, so then the
Speaker 2: whole market was flooded with it, so we had a
Speaker 2: pretty tough time coming out of COVID. Anyway, We've designed
Speaker 2: this new pant. Some customers have like fourteen pairs of
Speaker 2: them in different colors. I'm not kidding like it's crazy anyway.
Speaker 2: Kmart's done a version of it, and you just I mean,
Speaker 2: I don't get hung up about it anymore.
Speaker 1: But it's just part of being successful.
Speaker 2: It's fine, I'm cool with it.
Speaker 1: Weren't doing it that probably may indicate you that you're
Speaker 1: not doing anything right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, true, I know, Like I think, as you gain experience,
Speaker 2: you learn what to where to put your energy, don't you.
Speaker 2: And it's not into that kind of stuff anymof.
Speaker 1: Try not to try to chill out a little bit
Speaker 1: because you can't be worried about that sort of stuff
Speaker 1: all the time. But it's also about it can you
Speaker 1: once step ahead of everybody exactly and sticking by your
Speaker 1: own brand and your own brand values, the values of
Speaker 1: your brand, so you know you've done a great job
Speaker 1: at that. I do want to quickly ask you about
Speaker 1: the the intellectual property registration of your trademark? Has that?
Speaker 1: Nothing technical? But has that? Do you think that's worth
Speaker 1: the payoff? Is there a payoff on that? Because it
Speaker 1: is expensive? Is an exciting to get a.
Speaker 2: Trademarktly worth the payoff? I mean you have to invest
Speaker 2: in that from the start. I mean I've worked for
Speaker 2: brands that had big intellectual property cases in the past.
Speaker 2: You have to do that. You have to get things
Speaker 2: right from the start. You have to invest, Like we
Speaker 2: invested in a CFO in our first two years of.
Speaker 1: Business, someone to run your numbers.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and she got paid ten times as much as
Speaker 2: us didn't pay ourselves, but she was and she's still
Speaker 2: with us today. And you have to invest in the
Speaker 2: right areas. And that's something that we've always done and
Speaker 2: it saves problems down the track, I think, like big
Speaker 2: problems that you don't want to be dealing with. Like
Speaker 2: it's very hard to change your name after like five
Speaker 2: years of being successful in business. I mean that is
Speaker 2: just a headache.
Speaker 1: You don't want Well, that's true, and because you've got
Speaker 1: to deal with your or your distribution points just about everybody.
Speaker 1: If you no longer in business with your original co founder,
Speaker 1: are you able to talk that? I mean, it happened.
Speaker 2: Oh I was wondering if you're going to ask me that. Look,
Speaker 2: I think partnerships come to a natural end. And lou
Speaker 2: and I did really really well together for eighteen years
Speaker 2: or seventeen years to get the brand to where we did,
Speaker 2: but you know, she wanted to do other things and.
Speaker 1: Within your business, I mean, do you just sort of
Speaker 1: say I don't want to do that, I'll buy you
Speaker 1: out or how does it all work? How does a
Speaker 1: partner exit when you've been there together for seven eggs?
Speaker 2: I mean, it's like a divorce.
Speaker 1: It must be like a divorce.
Speaker 2: Yes, it's a lot, you know. I'm I'm not going
Speaker 2: to talk too much about it, but yeah, it was.
Speaker 2: It was difficult, and the company's reset now and we're
Speaker 2: really in a good position. So basic two point zero,
Speaker 2: it's good.
Speaker 1: Do do you? But do you miss because a lot
Speaker 1: of when they're starting up, they like a lot of
Speaker 1: people talk about having co found it because it's comforting
Speaker 1: that have someone you can cry on each other's shoulder,
Speaker 1: or you can sort of both bitch to each other
Speaker 1: about how difficult a supplier is or whatever. That that
Speaker 1: comfort thing. Does it get to a certain point when
Speaker 1: you no longer need that sort of thing because you
Speaker 1: know you're success for you've been at it for a
Speaker 1: long time, You're not as young anymore, You're you're less
Speaker 1: susceptible to perhaps you know you're not going to fail,
Speaker 1: you know, because you've already succeeded. Do you does that
Speaker 1: co founder relationship evolve into something totally different?
Speaker 2: I think people you know you evolved, don't you as
Speaker 2: a human being? And you you've either come together or
Speaker 2: you go apart, grow apart. And I think you know,
Speaker 2: alignment is key, particularly in leadership positions, having alignment we
Speaker 2: we really need, Like I have a great alignment with
Speaker 2: our seeing my CEO, he's been with me for fourteen years.
Speaker 2: He's amazing, he teaches me so much, He's built this
Speaker 2: beautiful culture in our company. He's hard, but he's soft
Speaker 2: at the same time. And I think it's really important
Speaker 2: to have that alignment and that same vision, particularly as
Speaker 2: your brand gets to a certain your business gets to
Speaker 2: a certain stage, and it's critical then to get to
Speaker 2: that next point, like critical for us, like we've we've
Speaker 2: for three years we've had the same turnover, we have
Speaker 2: not we've been stumbling at the same sort of stumbling blocks,
Speaker 2: and so now it's like our time to get to
Speaker 2: that next point. And I think that's the hardest part.
Speaker 2: You know, it's like getting from a certain turnover to
Speaker 2: the next, Like how do you do that in a
Speaker 2: market that is so volatile? Like you think about what's
Speaker 2: happening with the global economy, and you know, fashion is
Speaker 2: some thing that is switched on and off based on
Speaker 2: what's happening with the economy. And I think for us
Speaker 2: supply chain tariffs, like there's just so much instability in
Speaker 2: the world and lots of things that are out of
Speaker 2: your control.
Speaker 1: So sure, what are you doing something out of your control?
Speaker 1: How do you approach it?
Speaker 2: I think you make decisions on things you can control.
Speaker 2: So for us, we had quite a strong international business
Speaker 2: pre COVID, so we were in stores like Bergdorf Goodman
Speaker 2: in New York. We had a really great business and
Speaker 2: COVID hit and then it was just like no shipping.
Speaker 2: We don't want to take orders we're not paying you
Speaker 2: for I mean, we just put our business was at risk,
Speaker 2: you know, and so we made a decision at that point, Okay,
Speaker 2: we're closing down international. We can control our own destiny
Speaker 2: by having bricks and waterer stores, our own online. So
Speaker 2: we just pulled everything back into local and that's been
Speaker 2: our strategy. And then it's just understanding like how much
Speaker 2: growth can we have in this market and where does
Speaker 2: the growth come from next. I think, you know, online
Speaker 2: is a huge thing that you can control because of
Speaker 2: the the money that you can spend on marketing, so
Speaker 2: you can switch that on and off. It's different to
Speaker 2: bricks and mortar, where you're investing in you know, rents inventory,
Speaker 2: Like it's to open a store, like a fit out.
Speaker 2: You know, you can't do a fit out for undred
Speaker 2: million dollars. Wow, you cannot. Like you can, but it's
Speaker 2: not going to it's not going to look to the
Speaker 2: level that you want it to look. So, I mean,
Speaker 2: you know there's things you can control. We can control
Speaker 2: our supply chain, you know. So it's looking at things
Speaker 2: like that, it's looking at your margin, it's looking at
Speaker 2: your profitability. We can control our well, our expenses to
Speaker 2: a point. Yeah, so there are those things. I can't
Speaker 2: control how many stores are going to close down next week.
Speaker 2: I can't control my wholesale business. Like I can create
Speaker 2: great relationships, I can create create great products that sell,
Speaker 2: I can have great marketing, and I can create brand
Speaker 2: brand demand. But I can't control anything else. So that's
Speaker 2: the stuff that we focus on.
Speaker 1: And so just so what you're saying though, and I
Speaker 1: think I think what you're saying is, don't focus on
Speaker 1: those things you can't control. Actually actually identify those things
Speaker 1: you can control and put your time and iff into that.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, And it's like a four prong approach. You know,
Speaker 2: it's like we're looking at profitability, we're looking at margin,
Speaker 2: we're looking at product mix, we're looking at people. Having
Speaker 2: people in the right roles doing the right things like
Speaker 2: that is key. Like there's no point in having this
Speaker 2: great sort of st to do around people if you
Speaker 2: don't have the best talent, and if that you don't
Speaker 2: have the right leadership and the right energy in the business.
Speaker 2: And and that's one thing for me that I work
Speaker 2: really hard on personally, like bringing the right energy into
Speaker 2: the business. I do a lot of work personally on that.
Speaker 2: I'm in the gym really early, three or four days
Speaker 2: a week. I meditate, I just do all that textbook stuff.
Speaker 2: I swim every day. I because leadership is key and
Speaker 2: people want to come to work and be inspired and
Speaker 2: have a good time as well, you know, like you've
Speaker 2: got to enjoy the journey.
Speaker 1: And I think the best version of yours TLF.
Speaker 2: I really do. And I take that pretty seriously. And
Speaker 2: I'm like a human and I'm I've got all sorts
Speaker 2: of like flaws, I really do. But I'm super close
Speaker 2: to my team and that I think is key, like
Speaker 2: always checking in making sure they're okay. Like I don't
Speaker 2: work as a boss so much. I work beside them.
Speaker 2: I sit next to them, and we work together.
Speaker 1: But that's a decision you made as the boss to yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm going to I got one final question for you,
Speaker 1: if you don't mind, one final question for you. Would
Speaker 1: you think is it fair to say that to reach
Speaker 1: the success that you have enjoyed in the basic brand
Speaker 1: and all the stuff that you do, and all the
Speaker 1: staff you employ, and all the places you have as outlets,
Speaker 1: and all the supplies and distributeds that you use, and
Speaker 1: the success of the brand and all the other stuff,
Speaker 1: the ip et cetera in selecial property. Is it fair
Speaker 1: to say that no point trying to do these things
Speaker 1: unless you're prepared for it to be all encompassing.
Speaker 2: Absolutely. Absolutely, it's like all or nothing. And that's the thing.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of sacrifice. But I'm fortunate to do
Speaker 2: something I love, and without sounding like a cliche, I'm
Speaker 2: really grateful for that. And I'm surrounded by the most
Speaker 2: incredible people, like internally externally.
Speaker 1: So but is that a mindset? You have to put
Speaker 1: your mind set, your mind in that position to acknowledge
Speaker 1: that you are there are things there that you should
Speaker 1: be grateful for. In other words, you have to position
Speaker 1: yourself as that person.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, because there's so many things every day that can
Speaker 2: get on top of you. Yeah, and the motivation, the
Speaker 2: getting up that you know, I mean, it's a long time,
Speaker 2: it's a marathon. Having a business, like eighteen years goes
Speaker 2: like that, but it feels like a long time. And
Speaker 2: I always feel like I've just started. I always feel
Speaker 2: like I'm not good enough.
Speaker 1: I have to do better, and sometimes we've got to
Speaker 1: start again.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's what it feels like. Now like the
Speaker 2: basic two point zero, I am starting again building the
Speaker 2: business from the ground up, and I'm pretty flattened, I
Speaker 2: must say, like I'm tired. But I think it's the mindset.
Speaker 2: It's just like positive, positive, positive, just focusing on the
Speaker 2: good and not overthinking, just getting up and doing it,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And I think as your point to you can't
Speaker 1: overthink it because there's too many possibilities. You just can
Speaker 1: be really simple. No, I get up, it's this time,
Speaker 1: I do blah blah blah blah, I get a gym,
Speaker 1: whatever the case may be, and I go to work
Speaker 1: and I'll be my best, happiest self based on the day.
Speaker 1: And I perform as well as I can, and I
Speaker 1: look after my people and I do what I can. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but it's all encompassing. There's no shortcuts.
Speaker 2: There's no shortcuts. And I really when people ask me
Speaker 2: about you know, what would you say to any person
Speaker 2: that's going to start their own label? And I feel
Speaker 2: part of me feel sorry for them because it's like hard,
Speaker 2: it's hard, and.
Speaker 1: It's harder you ever expected.
Speaker 2: It's way harder now than it was then. Like it's
Speaker 2: complicated and you have to be in it for the
Speaker 2: long haul. Like it's not glamorous, it's not fun. It
Speaker 2: is fun. I mean I get to do great things.
Speaker 2: I get to travel, like do something I love. But
Speaker 2: it's a grind. And you know, I'm designing four collections
Speaker 2: a year every three months. I'm on a treadmill of
Speaker 2: like one hundred and fifty pieces every three months of design.
Speaker 2: And you've got deadlines and you're not sitting under a
Speaker 2: tree getting inspiration. You're in an office with deadlines, having
Speaker 2: meetings all day, trying to come up with creative ideas,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. So it's a grind. However,
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, keeping it simple, being grateful and enjoying
Speaker 2: the process and doing good work. That's what you need
Speaker 2: to do, good work that you're proud of.
Speaker 1: And stick to your and it's also about sticking to
Speaker 1: your original theme. Don't lose sight of what the hell
Speaker 1: you're doing. You're trying to provide clothing, which is blah
Speaker 1: blah blah blah what you explained before, simple, comfortable, cool,
Speaker 1: whatever your words are. You just don't lose sight of
Speaker 1: what you're doing, because that's important.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's really easy to do. I think losing
Speaker 2: sight of what you're doing.
Speaker 1: So Debra Sam's co founder now the only founder of
Speaker 1: Basic Clothing. Way, is that probably the best way to
Speaker 1: describe it. Thanks very much. That was actually very insightful.
Speaker 1: Pardon me not know much about your industry, but you've
Speaker 1: guided me through. You've taken me through. But like your business,
Speaker 1: like every other business, apart from the factor in the
Speaker 1: clothing game. You know, it's the theme, similar sort of
Speaker 1: theme for a founder. You know, stuff like some of
Speaker 1: the things that happened to you have happened to me,
Speaker 1: and you know a lot of that stuff resonated with
Speaker 1: me when you were talking to me about it, and
Speaker 1: I really appreciate your honesty. Good luck to hear.
Speaker 2: Thank you,