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Speaker 1: Let's talk about dangerous dogs in the community. Because the

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Speaker 1: South Australian Civil and Administration Tribunal have made a decision

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Speaker 1: to uphold a decision made by the West Tyrants Council

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Speaker 1: to destroy a dog, a Tibetan mastiff and from the

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Speaker 1: photo it looks like a grizzly bear. Frankly that attacked

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Speaker 1: a twelve year old girl, leaving and needing skin grafts

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Speaker 1: on a arm and deep bite marks to a leg,

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Speaker 1: to a thigh. She was lucky that how she ran

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Speaker 1: to for help with the dog. Following somebody was home

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Speaker 1: who led her in. And because you don't want to

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Speaker 1: think what might have happened. But the Tribunal, the owner's

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Speaker 1: appealed the decision to put the dog down. The Tribunal

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Speaker 1: has upheld the decision and it's a decision. I've got

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Speaker 1: to say, I don't mind. I can absolutely live with

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Speaker 1: that because I don't know why people want dangerous dogs

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Speaker 1: like this. This dog escape that's owner's home and that's

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Speaker 1: the problem. Because the tribunal ruled, well, they can't control it. Clearly,

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Speaker 1: somehow it got out and immediately proved itself to be

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Speaker 1: a dangerous dog. Daniel Tropiano K nine relationship coach on

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Speaker 1: the line, Daniel, good morning.

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Speaker 2: Good morning Mackew. Thanks for having me once again, indeed,

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Speaker 2: thank you.

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Speaker 1: For your time. What's the answer here? Is it training

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Speaker 1: or is it some dogs just won't respond? What goes on? Nah?

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Speaker 2: Well, as you probably have read in the article that

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Speaker 2: this dog hadn't received any training except for going to

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Speaker 2: a puppy school, and puppy school is a slither in

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Speaker 2: the overall pie when it comes to dog training. This

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Speaker 2: is not a breed issue. This is not a dangerous

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Speaker 2: dog issue. This is not a size of breed issue.

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Speaker 2: This is purely the standard in society today around dog

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Speaker 2: ownership is so poor and so low that the whole

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Speaker 2: system fails itself on every level. We have to remember,

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Speaker 2: only a couple of months ago there was a little

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Speaker 2: child that got attacked at a school and we spoke

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Speaker 2: about that incident, and that was a Jack Russell. So

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Speaker 2: it's not about it's not about the size, because yes,

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Speaker 2: it's a better. Massive is on one extreme of the spectrum,

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Speaker 2: but also Jack Russell is on the other extreme of

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Speaker 2: the sectrum and they both put kids in the hospital.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely don't disagree with that. So beyond puppy school. What

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Speaker 1: needs to happen? What should you do with a dog

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Speaker 1: at at that point, you've bought a puppy, let's start there.

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Speaker 1: You take it to puppy school. What's it going to

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Speaker 1: learn there?

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Speaker 2: Well, my personal advice would be not to go to

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Speaker 2: puppy school. My advice would be to find a dog

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Speaker 2: training school that actually does dog training to the levels

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Speaker 2: that is needed, and puppy school is not. If you

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Speaker 2: ask any dog trainer in the industry. Puppy school is

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Speaker 2: a little cash cow for some businesses to get new

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Speaker 2: clients in so that they can sell them other stuff.

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Speaker 2: In the long run, the stuff that people learn in

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Speaker 2: puppy school is so elementary. Ninety percent of people walk

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Speaker 2: out of puppy school thinking that they've done dog training,

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Speaker 2: but they haven't, right, And this is where the marketing

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Speaker 2: fails the system and is overriding what the dogs really need.

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Speaker 2: And in our opinion, dogs need to go to university.

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Speaker 2: They don't need to go to daycare, they don't need

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Speaker 2: to go to puppy school. They need to go somewhere

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Speaker 2: where they're going to learn actually how to be in

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Speaker 2: the world, and they're going to learn how to problem

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Speaker 2: solve and make good decisions. And that's the only way

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Speaker 2: that you're going to get your dog to a level

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Speaker 2: where you don't have to worry about this no matter

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Speaker 2: what breed and no matter what size. If you know

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Speaker 2: your dog knows how to behave in the world and

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Speaker 2: make good choices and you don't ever have to be

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Speaker 2: one of these statistics.

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Speaker 1: How can you be assured of that? Though? Because as

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Speaker 1: you've probably seen Daniel as a campaign running publicly, I've

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Speaker 1: seen the posters on buses and other places, and the

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Speaker 1: TV ad campaign. You know, Boxer was always a good boy,

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Speaker 1: best boy ever. But good dogs have bad days. So

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Speaker 1: how do you know it's always going to make a

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Speaker 1: right decision?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because this comes back to what we teach our

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Speaker 2: students anyway, is we have management systems, we have training systems,

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Speaker 2: we have handling systems for all these different things in

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Speaker 2: the dog's life, right, and we actually put the dogs

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Speaker 2: to the test. We spoke about this last time about

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Speaker 2: teaching the dogs how to deal with the pressures of

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Speaker 2: the world. So we test them in controlled environments and

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Speaker 2: we push them to the limits to where you think

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Speaker 2: that they might make mistakes, so that we can teach

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Speaker 2: them how to deal with those situations appropriately. The boxer

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Speaker 2: and the things on the age. The dogs they're talking about,

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Speaker 2: even good, those can have bad days. Again, we're talking

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Speaker 2: about the populace, and that's ninety percent of people out

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Speaker 2: there don't do anything with their dogs, and they think

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Speaker 2: that their dogs is good because they haven't had a

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Speaker 2: bad day yet. But that bad day is more than

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Speaker 2: likely going to come because they've not actually put any

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Speaker 2: structure into the dog's world to show them how to

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Speaker 2: be successful. So with the appropriate training, you can definitely

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Speaker 2: work your dog to a level where you can almost

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Speaker 2: be certain unless it was a total fluke, and you

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Speaker 2: know there's never say never, but you can be more

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Speaker 2: than certain that your dog can handle the situations that

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Speaker 2: they're going to be in on a day today. And

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Speaker 2: again going back to this article. So going back to

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Speaker 2: the article, you know, the dog loses because he dies,

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Speaker 2: the child losers because she's been attacked and now has

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Speaker 2: to deal with that trauma. But the owners couldn't even

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Speaker 2: have a secure yard. That's the most basic needs, you know,

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Speaker 2: So there's nothing on the front end to be able

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Speaker 2: to almost compel or get people to be signed off

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Speaker 2: on just the basic needs of dog ownership. Who would

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Speaker 2: get a dog and not even have a secure yard.

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Speaker 2: They can't have had a rusty gate and not known

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Speaker 2: about it, and then all of a sudden this happens.

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Speaker 2: Everyone knows what's going on in their household.

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Speaker 1: Well, I don't know what the situation at their house

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Speaker 1: was or what the yard was like, but you know,

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Speaker 1: perhaps he buried under or dug under or whatever whatever

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Speaker 1: the case might be. But what sort of pressure, Daniel,

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Speaker 1: do you put dogs under to train them? So talk

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Speaker 1: us through that process? How do they sure? How do

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Speaker 1: they live?

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Speaker 2: If we're doing save for a down? You might go

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Speaker 2: to puppy school, and that puppy school, they'll get the

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Speaker 2: treat and they'll tell you, okay, put it down under

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Speaker 2: the dog's nose and kind of lure it into it down.

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Speaker 2: And now you know how to teach your dog down.

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Speaker 2: That is teaching your dog how to do the movement

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Speaker 2: of it down. When we teach our dogs here, yes,

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Speaker 2: we teach them how to do the movements. They understand

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Speaker 2: what down is. And then we do what is called proofing.

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Speaker 2: And proofing means that you're proofing the behavior so that

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Speaker 2: it becomes bomb proof to no matter what distractions. We

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Speaker 2: could have the dog laying in it down and we're

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Speaker 2: throwing balls around and tempting the dog to break its

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Speaker 2: down to go and get the balls. And when he

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Speaker 2: makes the right choice not to break the down to

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Speaker 2: chase the balls, he gets heavily rewarded. And then we

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Speaker 2: will do stuff with Maybe I've put the dog in

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Speaker 2: the down and someone else comes up and might trip

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Speaker 2: a little bit over the dog, give it a little

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Speaker 2: nudge with its foot, and they still maintain their down

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Speaker 2: even though someone gave them a little nudge in the

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Speaker 2: back end. So they start to deal with these pressures

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Speaker 2: from the environment and they start to learn, well, it

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Speaker 2: doesn't matter because my handler told me down, So no

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Speaker 2: matter what happens to me in the down, I'm going

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Speaker 2: to maintain the down, okay. And that's how we prove

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Speaker 2: these things, and this is how the dogs start to

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Speaker 2: learn with the environment.

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Speaker 1: Got a great question. Got a great question here from

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Speaker 1: Matthew On the text line, he says, is the dog

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Speaker 1: training in the street regulated in Australia or can anyone

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Speaker 1: call themselves a dog trainer?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this is the problem. It's the industry full of cowboys.

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Speaker 2: There is no regulation it's a self regulated industry. So

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Speaker 2: you know, I pride myself on the fact that I

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Speaker 2: continually do seminars, I travel overseas to get the most

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Speaker 2: update information. I continually self you know, have a self

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Speaker 2: development journey in this. Unfortunately, you could wake up tomorrow,

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Speaker 2: Matthew and say I'm sick of being on the radio,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to be a dog trainer, and you can

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Speaker 2: go start charging clients to train their dog, and you

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Speaker 2: would not be surprised how many people there are in

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Speaker 2: the industry that do that because they had a dog

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Speaker 2: and their dog was okay, so they think that they

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Speaker 2: are good at training dogs. So yeah, it's quite dangerous

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Speaker 2: that we don't have We've almost got white belts teaching

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Speaker 2: white belts how to be black belts. That's what I

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Speaker 2: tell my students, and we need to have. This is

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Speaker 2: why I say the system kind of fails itself on

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Speaker 2: every level, from an administration, from a legislation, from education.

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Speaker 2: It's just all over the place. There's conflicting information all

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Speaker 2: out there. For even from you know, the Dog and

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Speaker 2: Cat Management Board for example, there's different things within the

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Speaker 2: Dog and Cat Management Board where their own information conflicts itself.

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Speaker 2: So it's very confusing and it doesn't make any sense.

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Speaker 2: And I think really in this state that they did

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Speaker 2: say that we wanted to be national leading with this

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Speaker 2: campaign that they did with every dog has a bad

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Speaker 2: day and we want to be the good dog owners.

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Speaker 2: We all need to come together, professionals of the industry,

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Speaker 2: the legislators, the administrators at Dog and Cat Management Board

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Speaker 2: and dogs They're say, and all these organizations, we need

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Speaker 2: to get around the table and actually nut this out

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Speaker 2: and see what is going to work and how can

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Speaker 2: we actually better the industry and society and their relationship

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Speaker 2: with dogs.

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Speaker 1: All right, failing we don't probably want to regulate it

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Speaker 1: to the extent for owners to prove they've done a

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Speaker 1: certified training course for their dog, you know, in the

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Speaker 1: way that certain categories of job have to have a

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Speaker 1: working with children check very important. Do we want to

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Speaker 1: get to.

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Speaker 2: That point with a minimum standard, Yeah.

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Speaker 1: But do we want to get to that point with

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Speaker 1: dog owners that they've got to prove their dog has

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Speaker 1: done you know, an x amount of training in the

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Speaker 1: sort of things you've been talking about.

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Speaker 2: If I was if I was perfectly honest, I would

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Speaker 2: much rather they go through the hardship than this little

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Speaker 2: twelve year old girl dealing with the trauma she has

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Speaker 2: to do with.

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Speaker 1: Sure, don't agree with that, yeah right.

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Speaker 2: You know, and if you really are, you know, like

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Speaker 2: you said, why would you want such a big dog?

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Speaker 2: I love German shepherds and Belgian shepherds Roddies. I like

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Speaker 2: those big power breeds. But me liking them, I understand

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Speaker 2: the fallout that could come from having that. So I

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Speaker 2: have a best practice mentality around everything that I do

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Speaker 2: with my dogs, and people need to have that mindset.

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Speaker 2: If you want to get those power breeds, then you

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Speaker 2: need to also you need to also go through the

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Speaker 2: struggle of learning how to keep them appropriately and to

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Speaker 2: manage them effectively so that these problems stop occurring. And

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Speaker 2: if you don't want to go through that struggle, then

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Speaker 2: you don't want the dog. So get a little chihuaha.

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Speaker 2: But the chihuaha still needs see education because they'll bite

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Speaker 2: just as much as any any big power breed, you know.

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Speaker 2: So this is why it's got to be a thing

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Speaker 2: across the board where we find something that has the

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Speaker 2: perfect balance that everyone has to contribute to and take

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Speaker 2: their part for the betterment of society.

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Speaker 1: All right, true or false? Karen says, any dog can turn,

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Speaker 1: regardless of size or breed. They especially need to be

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Speaker 1: watched around young children.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, any dog can turn in any circumstances if

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Speaker 2: the circumstances are even the most trained dog. That's why

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Speaker 2: I said you say never, say never, but you can

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Speaker 2: be almost certain. And yeah, definitely, if a dog has

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Speaker 2: had no training or preparation for the world, then yes,

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Speaker 2: anything can can switch that dog of one hundred percent.

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Speaker 1: Ever had an untrainable dog Daniel.

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Speaker 2: No, never had a dog that I couldn't train, only

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Speaker 2: owners that couldn't commit to the time.

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Speaker 1: How much? How much time? What's it take to train

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Speaker 1: a dog to the extent that you believe is necessary.

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Speaker 2: Well, look, most of our students have been coming here.

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Speaker 2: We're a bit set up more like a gym, right

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Speaker 2: and you know, so you go, you do your classes

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Speaker 2: and all that sort of stuff. We've had clients here

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Speaker 2: for a year. We've had some clients here eighteen months

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Speaker 2: and their dogs are at a very acceptable level. But

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Speaker 2: you know, their dogs are only coming on two years.

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Speaker 2: They've got another thirteen years with these dogs where they

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Speaker 2: can have complete freedom because they've actually put the work

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Speaker 2: in on the front end. So if you want a

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Speaker 2: dog that is actually to the standard of the law,

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Speaker 2: which is effective control, which means first time every time,

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Speaker 2: especially if off leash, then you need to spend a

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Speaker 2: good eighteen months to two years to get the dog

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Speaker 2: to that level. And again if you don't want to

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Speaker 2: put that in, then the dog has to be leashed

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Speaker 2: at all times and then you've still got effective control.

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Speaker 2: But that's not what's happening here.

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Speaker 1: What's the cost to train a dog to that level

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Speaker 1: over two years?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, like it really depends if you go down

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Speaker 2: like private sessions or whatever. With us, we actually get

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Speaker 2: people in for our daycare, which is fifty nine dollars

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Speaker 2: a day, and we do the training for them, so

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Speaker 2: we're not a free for all daycare. We actually have

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Speaker 2: one on one time with the dog and trainers and

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Speaker 2: they actually learn all the stuff that they need to

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Speaker 2: learn that they're coming to school for the day. Our

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Speaker 2: class membership is sixty dollars a week. It's just like

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Speaker 2: a gym. You can come to four four nights a

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Speaker 2: week that we were in classes if you want. It's

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Speaker 2: all active, it's cost effective.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, doggie, Jim, all right, I like it. Daniel appreciate

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Speaker 1: your insights as always. Thank you, Matthew, Daniel, you too,

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Speaker 1: Daniel Tropiano K nine relationship coach,