Speaker 1: I record this podcast on Gaetgol Country. I'd like to
Speaker 1: pay my respect to the traditional.
Speaker 2: Custodians and I'm recording o Urando Country, part of the
Speaker 2: Cooler Nation. Let's go.
Speaker 1: I know you're going to dig this. It's like I've
Speaker 1: been given like an extra sprinkle of something.
Speaker 2: You've got layers, Yeah, I got layers. I was just thinking,
Speaker 2: I'm like, we're just such beautiful storytellers.
Speaker 1: You make a lot of sense to that girl. No,
Speaker 1: I'm done, honest to go.
Speaker 2: Today, Manny and I have the pleasure of inviting the
Speaker 2: imperfects onto our podcast. The trio are usually the interviewers,
Speaker 2: but today we're going to be interviewing you. I honestly,
Speaker 2: the first five minutes of us being in the room together,
Speaker 2: I like opened up already, so I can tell that
Speaker 2: this podcast is this going to be No, we're going
Speaker 2: to actually even it out.
Speaker 3: Bat. I think that's because we came in just probing
Speaker 3: your dating life, and you're just an honest per the exactly.
Speaker 4: It's also the relationship that we have.
Speaker 5: Whereas because when you came on our podcast, you were
Speaker 5: very open and vulnerable, so maybe that you're just used
Speaker 5: to it when you see.
Speaker 3: Us, maybe your episode in our podcast comes up a lot.
Speaker 3: We get asked a lot of the time, what are
Speaker 3: the memorial interviews? Your interview is one that will start
Speaker 3: with us forever. We do a lot of like events
Speaker 3: where people say what's the what's the interview? And your
Speaker 3: name comes up every single time, and we will still
Speaker 3: get feedback on We still get people messaging us about it.
Speaker 3: And yeah, it was unbelievable.
Speaker 2: Ah, that was going to be a question for later on,
Speaker 2: but I feel like we jumped it on, like how.
Speaker 1: It's going to be, Like you've actually had that impact
Speaker 1: because you see people come up to you on the
Speaker 1: street and say, you know, they recognize that you're on
Speaker 1: their podcast and talk to you about that conversation. So
Speaker 1: obviously that was a powerful moment and that connection between
Speaker 1: you and the Imperfect must have touched a lot of people.
Speaker 1: What was it about that conversation that allowed do you
Speaker 1: brook to get so like deep with these fellows? One?
Speaker 2: I think it's a general vibe and energy that you
Speaker 2: guys give off. But the impact that that episode had
Speaker 2: on me, honestly, it was a really tough time in
Speaker 2: my life actually, and during that time I was going
Speaker 2: through some turbulent times, but I think it felt like
Speaker 2: when as soon as I walked into the room and
Speaker 2: saw and met each of you, I felt safe. And
Speaker 2: safe is not a big word. We talk about this
Speaker 2: a lot. Don't even made it Maddie about cultural safety
Speaker 2: and how important that is to feel safe to then
Speaker 2: feel honest and transparent. And I'm a pretty honest person.
Speaker 2: But I wouldn't say walking into a room full of
Speaker 2: like three and there's no ofvents to you guys but
Speaker 2: straight white males, that I would immediately feel that, like,
Speaker 2: you know, should you?
Speaker 1: But yeah?
Speaker 2: And I think it's.
Speaker 1: Kind of feels like for an audition in this industry.
Speaker 2: It really be like yes, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3: How are you? After that records it was such a
Speaker 3: really deep and heavy at times chat that was like
Speaker 3: it was like ninety minutes. I think we chat it
Speaker 3: for a yeah how are you?
Speaker 2: Afterwards, I actually had the opportunity to relax, I think
Speaker 2: after that episode, which was really nice. And I think
Speaker 2: that's been the most vulnerable I've been other than writing
Speaker 2: my book. I talked a lot of about my childhood,
Speaker 2: but I hadn't really vocalized it on an episode, and
Speaker 2: then maybe a few times maybe on the podcast of
Speaker 2: our own, but it was I would't say liberating because
Speaker 2: it's very like heavy, but it was nice that it
Speaker 2: felt like it didn't define me or own me anymore,
Speaker 2: and I was happy to voice it, and I was
Speaker 2: okay with voicing it. And Maddie and I talk about
Speaker 2: how important it is to own your story and to
Speaker 2: redefine and not feel like you're defined by you know,
Speaker 2: these things that happen that are traumatic, but we love
Speaker 2: actually like having authentic conversations, and you guys are just
Speaker 2: we like learned so much from you, I think, and
Speaker 2: we're just so curious to like how you guys made
Speaker 2: this happen, Like how did you all get together? You know,
Speaker 2: because you guys are family, yes, and then Ryan you,
Speaker 2: I mean this is probably familiar ground in a way
Speaker 2: because we've worked for Nova once before as well. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so how did this relationship happen?
Speaker 5: Initially it wasn't three. Initially, it was just going to
Speaker 5: be Hugh and I and Josh. Well, to go back
Speaker 5: a step, Hugh and I met randomly at a cafe
Speaker 5: in Melbourne.
Speaker 3: I was walking past the cafe and I saw Ryan
Speaker 3: Shelton sitting in there, and I got very nervous. I'm
Speaker 3: such a huge fan.
Speaker 6: I have to.
Speaker 3: I have to because I'd seen him a lot because
Speaker 3: we live in the same suburb, and I just thought,
Speaker 3: today's the day I'm going to go and tell him
Speaker 3: effectively that I love him and I'm a huge chair.
Speaker 4: I love that the proposals a but yeah, it was.
Speaker 4: It was a very nice compliment.
Speaker 5: So he came in and he sat next to me
Speaker 5: and he said, yeah, he liked the work that I'd done,
Speaker 5: but what was actually so lovely? Hugh said, explained what
Speaker 5: he did. He started the resilience projects, and he did
Speaker 5: these talks at schools and sporting clubs and all this stuff,
Speaker 5: and I was like so impressed. I was like, oh
Speaker 5: my god, this guy. I thought I had an important job.
Speaker 5: This guy has an actually important job, and so I
Speaker 5: was so interested in And then he said, well, actually,
Speaker 5: I do this talks every day, and to do this talk,
Speaker 5: so I have to be really up, you know. I
Speaker 5: have to be in a good mood or I have
Speaker 5: to have high energy. And I don't always feel like that.
Speaker 5: Like some days I feel a bit down or I
Speaker 5: feel rocked by something and I don't feel like doing
Speaker 5: a talk. And so before I go on stage, I
Speaker 5: will watch your videos and that makes me happy, so
Speaker 5: I can then go.
Speaker 4: And do the pump Nation.
Speaker 5: It was really really nice and so anyway, So then
Speaker 5: like a couple of years later, I had a midlife
Speaker 5: crisis and called, huh, we hadn't spoke.
Speaker 3: We spoke after that, for it was like three years
Speaker 3: we hadn't been in't we're just like I think I
Speaker 3: asked Ryan for a photo and then post on Instagram,
Speaker 3: so that night without my consent. Yeah, and you couldn't
Speaker 3: collab back then, I would have asked for a club.
Speaker 3: And because he's a very nice person, he just like
Speaker 3: liked the photo and so we knew who each other were.
Speaker 3: And then three years later he reached out of Instagram,
Speaker 3: and so could we catch up? I still remember I
Speaker 3: was in my now wife's parents' house, just like I've
Speaker 3: never been so excited.
Speaker 4: I couldn't believe it.
Speaker 3: I mean, I was sad that he had something had
Speaker 3: gone wrong and he'd catch up, but I was very
Speaker 3: excited to hang out. And I'm coming home that nine
Speaker 3: cent to Penny in my wife then girlfriend. I think,
Speaker 3: I am so confident we're going to be friends. I
Speaker 3: am so confident with friends. I was very excited and
Speaker 3: that never happened, but we did work together.
Speaker 5: Still friendship.
Speaker 2: No, That's probably one thing that I love about when
Speaker 2: I came on was the follow up from each of you,
Speaker 2: Like it just this just the messages and the check
Speaker 2: in to see if I was okay and everything. And
Speaker 2: I feel like that's probably what I've taken from you guys,
Speaker 2: is like when we have guests on is just saying like,
Speaker 2: thank you so much, because gratitude is one of you know,
Speaker 2: your values. I'm assuming and yeah, I feel like I'm
Speaker 2: always like really grateful for people, just like opening up
Speaker 2: and then I always love to thank them and make
Speaker 2: sure that they are you know, that they know that
Speaker 2: it was appreciated. I think, yeah, that's you guys lead
Speaker 2: an example of that.
Speaker 3: With Josh joining so oh yes, Josh, we kind of
Speaker 3: realized after.
Speaker 2: You guys are family.
Speaker 3: So yeah, about three years after we first met them,
Speaker 3: we became friends and then decided to do podcast. And
Speaker 3: then we realized we had no technical like I don't know,
Speaker 3: I was like, don't we just record it and then
Speaker 3: just send it it's a podcast, And then we decided
Speaker 3: we need something to help with the technical side of things,
Speaker 3: and Josh he's great with that kind of stuff, and
Speaker 3: so we asked him and he started doing it.
Speaker 1: And then.
Speaker 3: Whenever we did an interview, Josh would always have a
Speaker 3: question for the guest. It was off Mike, and his
Speaker 3: questions always so much better than it, and so it
Speaker 3: was what they were to just bring out a different
Speaker 3: side of the guest and would often change that and
Speaker 3: then he is getting ridiculous. Josh's questions are the best.
Speaker 3: Winted to give him a microphone, so it became in
Speaker 3: the background of the microphone or questions afterwards, if you
Speaker 3: could think of any and then in the end it
Speaker 3: just became, this is so silly not to have this
Speaker 3: in an interview, and that's so it was very organic.
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, I mean, I think I was at a
Speaker 6: point in my life where I wasn't really enjoying what
Speaker 6: I was doing for work outside of that, and so
Speaker 6: I was really excited to have this to work on.
Speaker 4: And it was so.
Speaker 6: Enriching and fulfilling and sort of inspiring to work with
Speaker 6: these two guys. And then yeah, I just was so
Speaker 6: drawn into the incredible people that were talking to it
Speaker 6: was hard not to be curious and one of us
Speaker 6: questions of people when something is started and there's only
Speaker 6: two people doing it on the mic, I think it
Speaker 6: requires incredible generosity of spirit to say, yeah, I know
Speaker 6: you should be on the mic talking as well, which
Speaker 6: I don't think I've acknowledged that you guys enough, How
Speaker 6: great PLA am for that, and what a big thing
Speaker 6: that is. It felt natural, But I think in a
Speaker 6: lot of cases people could be quite protective of that
Speaker 6: space that they've created and not want to change it
Speaker 6: because it was working so well. So thank you, yeah, pleasure.
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask a question around, you know, the
Speaker 1: dynamic when it comes to putting this podcast together. What
Speaker 1: is it like behind the scenes, like these conversations organically
Speaker 1: you know, created in the moment, or do you guys
Speaker 1: work on certain themes and topics that you really want
Speaker 1: to touch on with each guest? What is it like
Speaker 1: behind the scenes for you guys.
Speaker 6: Well, I think that would be amiss of us not
Speaker 6: to mention the people who really do bring it together,
Speaker 6: Bridget Northeast as the producer and sort of I don't know, well,
Speaker 6: how you just grab a bridge mum who's younger than
Speaker 6: more oppressive than anyone ever. She and there's Bella who's
Speaker 6: our research and assistant producer, and then George who edits
Speaker 6: who are there full time, and there's other people like
Speaker 6: Jam and there's lots of other people that work on
Speaker 6: the show. So at the start, yeah, it was just
Speaker 6: the three of us talking about what we might want
Speaker 6: to talk about with a guest.
Speaker 3: To be honest, it was just who do you know
Speaker 3: that might go on the podcast?
Speaker 4: It was pretty much that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a little bit like us as well,
Speaker 2: we're just kind of flicking it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's kind of the beauty of and it.
Speaker 5: Maybe podcasting has changed a bit now, but I mean, no,
Speaker 5: this still exists, but there's now sort of I guess
Speaker 5: what you'd call like a professional level of podcasting, Whereas
Speaker 5: when we started it was in Australia at least, it
Speaker 5: was still pretty like not slap dash, but it was
Speaker 5: pretty kind of cowboyish, I guess, in how people would
Speaker 5: pull a podcast together. So I think that the stakes
Speaker 5: felt pretty low at the start. And when we first
Speaker 5: that first year we did I think six episodes spaced
Speaker 5: out across the whole year. There was no there was
Speaker 5: no like regular larity to it or plan or schedule
Speaker 5: or anything. It was just like, once Josh had had
Speaker 5: enough time to finish editing the podcast around his other
Speaker 5: actual job, that we released one and then we do
Speaker 5: another one. So and then we did that for sort
Speaker 5: of two years, and then iHeart jumped on board to
Speaker 5: sell the ads, and then they made the very smart
Speaker 5: suggestion of going like, hey, maybe you guys should think
Speaker 5: about doing like regular episodes.
Speaker 4: It might make it a bit easier.
Speaker 5: For us to sell ads, because we wanted to get
Speaker 5: a producer and to help us with more episodes, and
Speaker 5: that's why we needed some ads and anyway, and so
Speaker 5: then it became more of a kind of like traditional show,
Speaker 5: whereas before that it was just experimenting.
Speaker 7: Really yeah yeah, and now it's like the credit really
Speaker 7: to the power brilliant the people are that we get
Speaker 7: to work with, of how amazing that that they do this,
Speaker 7: But I think it's really important as far as how
Speaker 7: do you create their space for these vulnerable conversation, which
Speaker 7: I think was sort of implied in the question in
Speaker 7: that it's to me, it's one of my favorite things
Speaker 7: that's happened this year is that when Bridget's so Bridget
Speaker 7: always do a pre interview with the guests beforehand, have
Speaker 7: a chat to them, find out their story, and she
Speaker 7: spoke to someone who was brilliant, a wonderful person. But
Speaker 7: after the conversation, she just said, I don't think they're
Speaker 7: ready to talk about this in a public space. It'll
Speaker 7: be too damaging for them to do it. They wanted
Speaker 7: to tell their story, and she said, I think it
Speaker 7: would be unsafe for them to do it, and it
Speaker 7: would be bad for them and their mental health. And
Speaker 7: it was a no brainer to say, I'm really sorry,
Speaker 7: but we don't think you're ready it and we won't
Speaker 7: have this conversation. But the fact that we genuinely do
Speaker 7: put the care and safety of the guest as the
Speaker 7: number one priority. I think guests feel that.
Speaker 6: I hope you felt that when you came on, and
Speaker 6: I think it leads to real conversations that aren't just
Speaker 6: trying to get a salacious, vulnerable story because that will sell.
Speaker 6: It's because there's value in telling that story and telling
Speaker 6: it properly.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that comes yeah with the space.
Speaker 6: Yeah and that yeah, and that space is created months
Speaker 6: before you come into the show.
Speaker 2: Credit to your team, because I feel like Maddie and
Speaker 2: I really value our team equally as well, Like when
Speaker 2: I feel I have opened up or I feel like,
Speaker 2: oh okay, that's something I probably should have workshopped. You know,
Speaker 2: when we finish the episode, Rachel's the here to hold
Speaker 2: space for me. So like, I credit Race Rachel so
Speaker 2: much because she's created that space, like for us to
Speaker 2: speak vulnerably about whatever it is, even if we haven't
Speaker 2: workshopped itself, and I'm like, can we cut that out?
Speaker 6: But that trust is so important?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean yeah, and that's oh my god. I've
Speaker 2: just honestly we're up to you guys, because I feel
Speaker 2: like that episode was just so special to me, especially
Speaker 2: my my journey, because I feel like from then, I've
Speaker 2: felt really good about even if I've had the conversation
Speaker 2: just with a random stranger about you know what, what
Speaker 2: I've what I've learned about myself. Yeah, it's like this
Speaker 2: it's taken a little bit of a bit, a bit
Speaker 2: of a weight off my shoulders in a sense because
Speaker 2: I wasn't defined by any of those experiences. I feel like,
Speaker 2: but you know, the episodes itself was really quite heavy,
Speaker 2: but I didn't feel that afterwards, So that's always great.
Speaker 1: I have learned from you guys that men should be vulnerable,
Speaker 1: and it's actually a powerful thing. Especially it's funny when
Speaker 1: you hear someone else be vulnerable, or you hear you know,
Speaker 1: you blokes talk talking to another guy about some sort
Speaker 1: of deep emotion or an experience that they've gone through
Speaker 1: and you unpack it inside a gentle and beautiful way.
Speaker 1: I think that is almost like the opposite of what
Speaker 1: we've been taught, you know, and the opposite of what
Speaker 1: is ingrained in how we should be as men. And
Speaker 1: that's even me as a as a gay man. So
Speaker 1: I just want to say, like, I see that, and
Speaker 1: I appreciate that about you, fellows. I want to ask, though,
Speaker 1: like what did it take for you and your experiences?
Speaker 1: And maybe it was something that you had growth together around,
Speaker 1: but what did it take to get to that level
Speaker 1: where you are able to be open, vulnerable and not
Speaker 1: shy away from letting people see that emotional side.
Speaker 5: Well, I mean for me, I think I definitely I've
Speaker 5: never been a traditionally like like in the way you're
Speaker 5: talking about, Maddie, Like, I've never been traditionally like vulnerable person. Really,
Speaker 5: Like it's not really something that was big in like
Speaker 5: my house growing up like it wasn't. We didn't talk
Speaker 5: about big emotions or anything like that. It was very
Speaker 5: much surface level and making sure everyone felt safe and
Speaker 5: you know, good, consistent. There was lots of love, but
Speaker 5: not necessarily emotional conversations. And so for me, like kind
Speaker 5: of ironically, the thing that got me to be vulnerable
Speaker 5: was well, actually I was able to be vulnerable with you.
Speaker 5: I mean that's the before we even decided to do
Speaker 5: the podcast, when I like we talked about before, when
Speaker 5: I first messaged to you out of the blue on
Speaker 5: Instagram and say can we catch up for a coffee?
Speaker 5: I'd had this sort of epiphany in my life and
Speaker 5: I was it was kind of like a pre mid
Speaker 5: life crisis, Like I could see the midlife crisis coming,
Speaker 5: but it wasn't. I wasn't in it yet, but it
Speaker 5: was like, oh shit, that's that's going to come my
Speaker 5: way if I don't do something. And so I had
Speaker 5: all these thoughts and this, yeah, this is kind of
Speaker 5: like and I didn't know I didn't really know who
Speaker 5: to talk about it. I mean, I have lots of
Speaker 5: people I could talk about it, but for whatever reason,
Speaker 5: Hugh jumped into my head I literally hadn't seen him
Speaker 5: in two years. I met him once and I was like,
Speaker 5: that guy has the resilience project. He'll know what to say.
Speaker 5: Like for some reason I trusted that he would know
Speaker 5: and he would like treat it carefully and you know,
Speaker 5: be sensitive to it. And so when I met up
Speaker 5: with Hugh, I just kind of like said everything, didn't
Speaker 5: I everything? I was like, yeah, just vomited vulnerability in
Speaker 5: his face. And the great thing was is that he
Speaker 5: didn't give me any advice or didn't even really say
Speaker 5: that much. He just sort of listened and and and
Speaker 5: just I don't know, like put me in touch with
Speaker 5: a few different people, and but that sort of kicked off.
Speaker 5: It's probably like speed ramped our relationship in a way
Speaker 5: that if we had have like just bloody met at
Speaker 5: the footy ground or usually how I met blokes, you know,
Speaker 5: just in the nets, hitting sixes, hidden sixers in the
Speaker 5: nets or spin and flippers. You know, if I hadn't
Speaker 5: met him that way, then maybe the relationship might have
Speaker 5: taken longer to get to that point. But because it
Speaker 5: was like bull out of the gate, like straight into
Speaker 5: the vulnerable stuff, we were having deep conversations like every week,
Speaker 5: and that's how the podcast came about. So my vulnerability
Speaker 5: only was able to happen because I felt safe in
Speaker 5: talking to Hugh about it.
Speaker 6: There's also I've never asked you this, but would it
Speaker 6: have been hard for you to be that open with
Speaker 6: your mates that you'd known for like fifteen years?
Speaker 5: Yeah, well I could have spoken to them about it,
Speaker 5: but it would have. And this is nothing against them,
Speaker 5: but I think you was just naturally so in tune
Speaker 5: with everything I was talking about in terms of like
Speaker 5: the work that he was doing. And I think at
Speaker 5: that point you were starting to be a counselor, like
Speaker 5: you were literally doing a counseling course. And I don't know,
Speaker 5: I think a lot of and me included if someone
Speaker 5: came to me that my natural instinct is to try
Speaker 5: and solve their problem, and from what I've learned since
Speaker 5: then since doing this show, it's like that does and
Speaker 5: actually it's actually not the right thing to do to
Speaker 5: try and solve the problem. It's just to listen and
Speaker 5: you know. But yeah, so that really helped the fact
Speaker 5: that I think I knew she would be the right
Speaker 5: person to talk to, and he was. But if I
Speaker 5: had spoken to a friend of mine. Maybe that would
Speaker 5: have been fine to it, Maybe it would have been
Speaker 5: just as good. Maybe I'd be doing a podcast with
Speaker 5: a different person. But the way it worked out was
Speaker 5: incredible perfect.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I just think it can be quite hard to
Speaker 6: switch like quick switch modes, Like with someone that you've
Speaker 6: been friends with for a long time, You've only got
Speaker 6: like one style of communicating someone I've never been vulnerable with,
Speaker 6: and there's this kind of built friendship of fifteen years
Speaker 6: and going, like I think about some of my mates
Speaker 6: and some of the conversations I've had with people on
Speaker 6: the podcast I've never met before in a really safe
Speaker 6: space all with you guys. But then I found myself
Speaker 6: because of the podcast. A few of my mates I
Speaker 6: think have felt like they can sort of talk to
Speaker 6: me a bit the way you felt like that with Hugh.
Speaker 6: And I find this and it's like a really nervous
Speaker 6: energy of like, oh shit, can I Yeah.
Speaker 3: I.
Speaker 4: Like books worse I was gonna say last time I've
Speaker 4: had books disgusting actually a horrible word.
Speaker 2: That's the title of this, just a load of pool.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I feel there's this nervousness of like, shit, we're
Speaker 6: going here and we've never done this before. We've known
Speaker 6: each other for lack. I'm thinking of one friend in
Speaker 6: particular I've known since for twenty two years, and we
Speaker 6: never talked vulnerably before, and there's this real nervousness and
Speaker 6: scariness of like, oh, we're going to be able to
Speaker 6: negotiate this and handle it. And it was an amazing
Speaker 6: conversation and beautiful and it was I'm so glad we've
Speaker 6: done it. But it felt a lot harder with someone
Speaker 6: that I've known for twenty years than it is because
Speaker 6: there's so much baggage, so much life experience between us. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I also think the other thing to acknowledge, probably for you, madam,
Speaker 3: is like I think you can only be vulnerable when
Speaker 3: you feel like completely safe. And I'm probably assuming here,
Speaker 3: but like as a gay man, maybe you don't feel
Speaker 3: as safe emotionally as much. Maybe I don't know. Obviously,
Speaker 3: it's like I'm making big assumptions here, but it might
Speaker 3: be hard to jump and go. I'll be vulnerable. I
Speaker 3: trust everyone around here. I trust everyone's got my interest
Speaker 3: at hard and everyone is going to be supportive and
Speaker 3: loving of me. I don't have that sort of resonates
Speaker 3: with you at all.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it does. I also think that intersection
Speaker 1: of being a First Nations person as well, you know,
Speaker 1: the whole resilience cap we have to wear, and sometimes
Speaker 1: I don't feel that way, but I pretend, you know,
Speaker 1: so it's like I'll feel strong or feel like you
Speaker 1: have to sort of have everything together. But yeah, I definitely,
Speaker 1: I definitely understand where you're coming from, and I think
Speaker 1: that's there's probably layers of everything including that as to why.
Speaker 1: But I do think that safe spaces aren't I don't
Speaker 1: think they're created as like. I don't. I don't come
Speaker 1: up against them as easily as I think I would
Speaker 1: like to.
Speaker 3: Yeah, of course, Yeah, so it makes sense. I think
Speaker 3: it makes sense totally that you find vulnerability can be
Speaker 3: a bit harder because I think it's it's to you
Speaker 3: need to trust as well. There's to be a huge
Speaker 3: amount of trust, and I can pletely get if you
Speaker 3: don't feel that all the time from people. It makes sense,
Speaker 3: especially the way society is at the moment. So yeah,
Speaker 3: I totally understand.
Speaker 2: That I worry about our next generation about vulnerability and
Speaker 2: sharing our emotions. But I also seeing an increase in
Speaker 2: platforms like TikTok where they're expressing a lot of their
Speaker 2: stuff but complete strangers and feeling comfortable doing that. And
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, I don't know how I feel about this,
Speaker 2: do you like, Yeah, what's your perspective? I guess on
Speaker 2: that with having your own children.
Speaker 4: Well, I guess there's two parts of it.
Speaker 6: I think I think it's really important to be like
Speaker 6: to we I think we have on our not jokingly,
Speaker 6: it's kind of serious on our tea card things that
Speaker 6: we said say, always vulnerable responsibly, because I think it's
Speaker 6: really important to do it in a way that you
Speaker 6: feel safe to people that it's a really like I've
Speaker 6: always probably been leaning into vulnerability more and probably in
Speaker 6: times and moments when I shouldn't have in the past.
Speaker 6: And I've sort of been burnt a few times in
Speaker 6: my life by probably giving a bit too much of
Speaker 6: myself to people that weren't capable of handling that, and
Speaker 6: it's hurt and only ended up hurting me more. And
Speaker 6: so I think it's it's incumbent to emphasize that it's
Speaker 6: really important to only do it with people that you
Speaker 6: trust and who've got your interests at heart. When you're
Speaker 6: doing it and nothing else. That's why I worry about
Speaker 6: being really vulnerable just out into a platform like TikTok
Speaker 6: and just because it's the wild West out there and
Speaker 6: like it's and I don't think everyone who watches your
Speaker 6: video has your interested heart, So that is worrying. I
Speaker 6: think as a parent, it's I guess, emotions and vulnerability
Speaker 6: if the kids is something you negotiate every twenty minutes,
Speaker 6: I think you've got a new challenge ahead of you,
Speaker 6: and it's difficult. But I see a like certainly, I
Speaker 6: can only really speak for me, and the friends are
Speaker 6: my friends, but I see a lot of fathers leaning
Speaker 6: into vulnerability with their kids a lot more than I
Speaker 6: think they were in general the generation before they were shown.
Speaker 4: I think, yeah, I'm sure.
Speaker 6: It's not everywhere, but I feel lucky that that's certainly
Speaker 6: I would say more of the norm in my my
Speaker 6: friendship grow Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we should probably say that. Josh and I really
Speaker 3: feel as we hit the jackpot with our parents as
Speaker 3: far as they were always like wanting to know what
Speaker 3: was going on, how we were actually feel Mum would
Speaker 3: always ask us the emotion we're feeling always yeah, and
Speaker 3: would always unpacked for ages us, so it's never felt
Speaker 3: it's always felt very.
Speaker 6: And there was never any judgment from Dad about any No,
Speaker 6: not at all. Yeah, So we're incredibly lucky, and.
Speaker 3: I think we kind of hopefully then, having had that
Speaker 3: model to us, will do the same with our kids.
Speaker 6: I think it's good to acknowledge though, that when you
Speaker 6: hit the jackpot like we did with our parents's, it
Speaker 6: makes it like it's easy to see, it's easy to
Speaker 6: do what you've seen and what you've experienced, and we
Speaker 6: saw it and lived at firsthand. So just being I
Speaker 6: don't know, just acknowledging that now it's a lot harder
Speaker 6: for other people to lean into this kind of thing
Speaker 6: because I think we were luckily shown it from a
Speaker 6: really early age. So it feels something about it feels
Speaker 6: natural and right as opposed to feeling really scary. Yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and everyone, everyone. If there's one thing I think
Speaker 5: all three of us have, even if we knew it,
Speaker 5: that we've learned properly since doing the podcast, is that
Speaker 5: everyone is going through something and it's not a competition.
Speaker 5: Some people are going through through all everyone's going through
Speaker 5: some level of pain or you know, at different points,
Speaker 5: and even if they're not it's just sort of best
Speaker 5: to assume that they are because we just don't know.
Speaker 5: And so I think the listening listening without judgment is
Speaker 5: sort of like becomes obvious when you kind of just
Speaker 5: if you assume everyone you've talked, even if they come
Speaker 5: across like they've got nothing wrong in their life and
Speaker 5: they're doing great and they got an awesome job and
Speaker 5: super sweet mas MX five and you know, and they're
Speaker 5: just seem like they're kicking goals. Is like, if you
Speaker 5: just assume that they're struggling with something in their life,
Speaker 5: then it's it's going to make the conversation a lot different.
Speaker 4: I think.
Speaker 1: I think that happens a lot in our industry as well.
Speaker 1: Like you will see somebody who might be perceived as
Speaker 1: like their best moment of their career or they're having
Speaker 1: like such a highlight in their life on social media,
Speaker 1: but behind the scenes it seems to always be at
Speaker 1: the same time that they're maybe going through the roughest
Speaker 1: patch personally. It's some weird sort of moment, you know,
Speaker 1: that happens often people tell me about.
Speaker 5: I mean literally, the very first episode was with Missy Higgins,
Speaker 5: and that is exactly her story when she was like
Speaker 5: when she was special toing the hell out of it
Speaker 5: around Australia and at her absolute peak, she was at
Speaker 5: her lowest mentally, and and that that was that really
Speaker 5: set the tone for like, Oh, this is this is
Speaker 5: people we just don't know.
Speaker 4: You just don't know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Maddie, you have like a really nice analogy that
Speaker 2: you use a lot.
Speaker 1: Do I on the hill?
Speaker 4: Oh?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I have an I have an idea for a
Speaker 1: kid's program in a school. But that's it's more speaks
Speaker 1: to privilege, and it more speaks to the idea that
Speaker 1: we all start on somewhere on a hill. It's a
Speaker 1: visual way of learning and and teaching kids that you know,
Speaker 1: in life, there are people who may start more towards
Speaker 1: the top of this hill, and their goals may be
Speaker 1: closer to them and their terrain and and the part
Speaker 1: that they choose to walk in life, I'll get to
Speaker 1: choose by their privilege is much easier than yours. But
Speaker 1: it doesn't make it doesn't mean you can't make it
Speaker 1: to the top, you know. So I have this idea
Speaker 1: of you know, really wanting to go into schools one
Speaker 1: day and teach kids about you know, the journey of
Speaker 1: trying to achieve what we want in life and finding
Speaker 1: our passion and in a joy because I think one
Speaker 1: thing that I've realized is I've been able to create
Speaker 1: this path on this hill that really works for me
Speaker 1: and provides me a lot of joy. And that's being
Speaker 1: able to have this you know, this life that I
Speaker 1: always wanted and be in the career that I love
Speaker 1: because it's what I'm meant to be doing. It's my
Speaker 1: owner joy. And I just think there's so many people
Speaker 1: that don't get that opportunity in life, you know, that
Speaker 1: don't get to do with their their purpose is. But yeah,
Speaker 1: that's definitely down the track. It's an idea that I
Speaker 1: shared with Brook only on the weekend. Actually so.
Speaker 3: Very new.
Speaker 1: It's very new, So it's you know, I just also
Speaker 1: know how much sacrifice it takes to to do what
Speaker 1: you love as well. It's not like you can, you know,
Speaker 1: have everyone holding on to your way you try and
Speaker 1: make it to the top, but once you get to
Speaker 1: the top, you can show them the way, you know.
Speaker 1: So it's like, yeah, there's just a lot of visual
Speaker 1: aspects to this analogy that I think is really easy
Speaker 1: for young people to understand and and be able to
Speaker 1: use as a bit of inspiration in their life. But
Speaker 1: it also correlates with a podcast where they're able to
Speaker 1: talk about their dreams, goals, and what their journey may
Speaker 1: look like for them. So yeah, it's a sound the track.
Speaker 4: It sounds right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what is something that each of you have learned
Speaker 1: on this journey about yourselves that maybe you didn't know beforehand?
Speaker 1: Like you get to do something that is quite profound,
Speaker 1: and that is, you know, share people's stories, elevate people's voices,
Speaker 1: but also in a weird way you like three therapy firsts,
Speaker 1: you know. Definitely it sounds like that in my ears,
Speaker 1: you know, And that's it. That's a compliment by the way.
Speaker 2: I feel like, yeah, yeah, I.
Speaker 1: Think what is it that you've learned about yourself that
Speaker 1: that you can share with us on this journey?
Speaker 3: There's so much. I feel like every episode we have
Speaker 3: there's a moment where I know, books episode for example,
Speaker 3: I just it really reiterated to me how important is
Speaker 3: to to think about the journey of First Nations people
Speaker 3: and remind ourselves of what they went through, what they
Speaker 3: still go through. And it was a really it was
Speaker 3: very powerful for me in that in that regard, like
Speaker 3: it's always sort of you do think about a lot,
Speaker 3: but I think it needs to be more front of
Speaker 3: mind for everyone. And that's sort of what happened there
Speaker 3: for me. Very specifically, we did episode on ADHD with
Speaker 3: a psychologist who's an expert on ADHD in the last year,
Speaker 3: and then I realized that that was me. She was
Speaker 3: talking about me. It took a while to get there,
Speaker 3: but yeah, so I literally discovered I was ADHD through
Speaker 3: our own podcast, which is funnily enough, I didn't think
Speaker 3: about it at all when we're doing I was thinking
Speaker 3: about all my friends who might be ADHD, and then
Speaker 3: I mentioned my wife and then and then we went
Speaker 3: on a bit of a journey, and then I listened
Speaker 3: to the episode again and I went, oh, it's definitely me.
Speaker 3: So I listened to I listened to our podcast to
Speaker 3: work out, which has been very luckjagic. So that was
Speaker 3: a big one for me.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I feel like it's it's constant.
Speaker 5: I wish I could think of like a really really
Speaker 5: big one, but it's like it's it's it's often like
Speaker 5: little little things that can maybe have big impact or
Speaker 5: big make big change potentially, like even just today, we
Speaker 5: spoke to this a psychologist and it was all about
Speaker 5: sleep and she was talking about the importance of sleep
Speaker 5: and the impact on our brains and our life and
Speaker 5: and how And I, of course I knew just anecdotally
Speaker 5: that sleeps important, and I've like heard people, I've read
Speaker 5: about it. But the way she put it today, I
Speaker 5: was like, Okay, no, I know I need to get
Speaker 5: eight hours sleep, but I really need to get eight
Speaker 5: hours sleep, and I need to prioritize it more than
Speaker 5: I do currently. So even that if I actually go
Speaker 5: on and put that into practice, then it could potentially
Speaker 5: have a huge impact on me.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, So it's it's it's lots of things that you know.
Speaker 5: Some things I hear and I'm like, oh my god,
Speaker 5: that's incredible, and then I'll forget about it, and then
Speaker 5: I'll hear it again later on, like if we put
Speaker 5: it into a clip and I'm like, oh, that's right.
Speaker 4: That was a cool bit from the podcast.
Speaker 2: Some hit, some don't.
Speaker 4: Yeah, some stick, some don't.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I'm the type that would use that sleep that learning
Speaker 1: from that sleep psychologist probably as like an excuse to
Speaker 1: have naps in the day.
Speaker 4: Naturally.
Speaker 6: Good good, No, longer very good for me. I don't
Speaker 6: know why this feels really vulnerable to say, but for me,
Speaker 6: it's just that I feel like I am enough as
Speaker 6: I am. I didn't really feel that for most of
Speaker 6: my life, and this podcast has changed that for me.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I love that. And I don't know if it's
Speaker 6: I had kids at the same time as this podcast started,
Speaker 6: so I don't know if it's it's it's definitely them
Speaker 6: as well. I can't sort of separate the two because
Speaker 6: they'll almost work a month's within each other. But yeah,
Speaker 6: that I'm okay because I certainly don't didn't feel like
Speaker 6: that for most of my life before that. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Wow, it's so great that I just heard that from you, Josh,
Speaker 1: because today when I was journaling, I was writing about
Speaker 1: the feeling of not being enough, you know, and so
Speaker 1: I really resonate with what you just said. And it's
Speaker 1: and sometimes you do have to sort of like find
Speaker 1: something that allows you to to find that feeling, you know,
Speaker 1: and you feel your podcast. I think I'm on a journey.
Speaker 1: Yeah it's out there some way, but you know, feeling enough.
Speaker 1: Can I ask you, like, what does that feel like
Speaker 1: for you?
Speaker 6: Well, sadly, it's not like it's not like fixed sort
Speaker 6: of thing. Like it's not like I feel it's like,
Speaker 6: oh yeah, I got there and I feel like enough,
Speaker 6: and now I don't look back. I feel like I
Speaker 6: fluctuate and in bad It's almost like I feel like
Speaker 6: I'm enough more than I feel like I'm not enough now.
Speaker 6: But it doesn't mean that I don't still feel the
Speaker 6: way used to when for a variety of reasons, whether
Speaker 6: it's lack of sleep or just a bad wake where
Speaker 6: shitty things have happened. But to you know what, it's
Speaker 6: a strange. We had a revelation on the show once
Speaker 6: when we were talking. You said, Hugh said something about
Speaker 6: when he meets someone really good or really funny, he
Speaker 6: has this feeling. I hope I'm getting this right of like, oh,
Speaker 6: I can't wait for us to be friends, Whereas I
Speaker 6: I had never heard it vocal as at that. I
Speaker 6: always thought more like they wouldn't want to be friends
Speaker 6: with me, and even if they do, they'll work it
Speaker 6: out pretty quick that I'm not someone you want to
Speaker 6: be friends with. And I think that's fading for me,
Speaker 6: and I feel like, well, why wouldn't they like I'm
Speaker 6: not that bad, and that's a nice and that's a
Speaker 6: really nice thing to carry and to say what it
Speaker 6: feels that matter. I think it's like I was unaware
Speaker 6: of the weight that I was carrying before that revelation,
Speaker 6: and yeah, the weight might feel like it's there some days,
Speaker 6: but other days it's it's not. And that's a pretty
Speaker 6: great feeling. And it's great to be a dad and
Speaker 6: be able to look at your kids with that, with
Speaker 6: that feeling, because you certainly don't want them to feel
Speaker 6: that and so to I think you have to be
Speaker 6: able to say it about yourself first before you can
Speaker 6: teach them not to believe that. So that's that gives
Speaker 6: me hope. Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 5: Yeah, we're a little bit of a golden josh n
Speaker 5: I get for you.
Speaker 1: Me good.
Speaker 4: I was like, Dawn, save it for.
Speaker 2: I love you guys. Oh god. I feel like that
Speaker 2: plays into like comparison cultures sometimes, Like I feel like
Speaker 2: that's an out for me for twenty twenty five, is
Speaker 2: comparing because I always had this mentality like there's more
Speaker 2: than enough to go around, whether that's like money, love,
Speaker 2: like kindness, like there's so many things that there's just
Speaker 2: there's more than enough, Like why do we you know?
Speaker 2: And I find myself comparing myself a lot, like why
Speaker 2: do I why do we not get like enough downloads?
Speaker 2: Or why do why do people not come to our things?
Speaker 2: Like I was really down. We would did like a
Speaker 2: live show, and it immediately jolted me because I thought
Speaker 2: I had an expectation I guess of like who was
Speaker 2: going to come, and then that didn't It didn't exceed
Speaker 2: my expectations. But instead of being like, oh this shit happens,
Speaker 2: poop happens, I was like, oh, no one likes me,
Speaker 2: I'm irrelevant, and I go down. It's like, you know,
Speaker 2: and I have the same thing of like not feeling
Speaker 2: like enough but also feeling like too much sometimes because
Speaker 2: I've been told that like and I have my own
Speaker 2: battles with that. But like it's nice hearing you know
Speaker 2: that these these conversations, because like I feel the same way,
Speaker 2: like I am enough as I am, and the right
Speaker 2: people will find me and the right people will appreciate
Speaker 2: my energy even if that is too much sometimes yeah, yeah.
Speaker 6: And it doesn't for me, it doesn't. It a realization
Speaker 6: that doesn't have to be everyone as well. That's a
Speaker 6: nice realization to know that if you've got enough people
Speaker 6: that you know appreciate you for truly who you are,
Speaker 6: that it can help to intellect from some of those comparisons.
Speaker 6: I think potentially, but they're still there. It's hard to avoid.
Speaker 2: I think, hard to avoid. But it's an out comparison
Speaker 2: culture you're not. It's an out for me.
Speaker 1: It's good.
Speaker 6: That's a good thing to get out. Yeah, absolutely, what is.
Speaker 3: What is what role of social media playing that for you?
Speaker 3: Because you've got such a big presence on social media
Speaker 3: and to do that, I'm guessing you must have to
Speaker 3: be on social media a lot and you see what
Speaker 3: other people are doing and people who are in your
Speaker 3: industry what they're achieving, because everyone's putting up their best stuff.
Speaker 3: Does that kind of highlight to you if you're if
Speaker 3: you're putting on a show for your live show, and
Speaker 3: then you'll see another podcast that does similar stuff to
Speaker 3: you doing a live show, and you're like, why have
Speaker 3: they got people there? Do social media? What I'm trying
Speaker 3: to say is the social media make things harder or
Speaker 3: easier for you?
Speaker 2: Well, there's so many good things about it that I
Speaker 2: love and I kind of try to, you know, revel
Speaker 2: in those relation those, but I think it's it's conversations
Speaker 2: that are like face to face and of face value
Speaker 2: and you know, genuine messages. I think that really make
Speaker 2: this whole social media aspect of my life feel valuable innocence.
Speaker 2: Other than that, it just feels like I just use
Speaker 2: it as a tool to advertise what's really important to me,
Speaker 2: which I think is a good.
Speaker 4: Balance really important.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I just kind of got sucked into this vortex.
Speaker 2: I think over the years, Maddie, Maddie and I talk
Speaker 2: about this a lot, but it hasn't really hasn't been
Speaker 2: in the last couple of years that I've really come
Speaker 2: back to myself and I realized that I was not
Speaker 2: boring as what people would think or would say about me.
Speaker 2: I was like, actually, I'm really creative, but I can't
Speaker 2: share that world because people don't know that world or
Speaker 2: know that of me. So if I just share it,
Speaker 2: people are gonna be like, Okay, she's she's gone unhinged,
Speaker 2: like she's she's gone off the rail. Yeah, out of
Speaker 2: my lane. Yeah, And I have to stay in my
Speaker 2: lane in order to fit this. Yeah, And I think
Speaker 2: that's something really I battle with sometimes with what do
Speaker 2: I share and what I don't share, But I feel
Speaker 2: like when they share the moments that I enjoy and
Speaker 2: I love, like the moments when my dad. Everyone loves
Speaker 2: those moments, like they like, oh this is so you know,
Speaker 2: really wholesome, and I'm like, yeah, that's the things I love.
Speaker 2: So hopefully you love it. But I was also going
Speaker 2: to ask the question of you guys when you're doing
Speaker 2: the episodes and everything, and it does get.
Speaker 6: To a part.
Speaker 2: I mean, Josh, you've beautifully opened up and I'm like,
Speaker 2: always so grateful for that, and I think, like all
Speaker 2: of you have, but do you pick and choose, like
Speaker 2: when do you rein it in and when do you
Speaker 2: like choose to share and when do you say oh okay,
Speaker 2: like I haven't workshoped that I'm going to like keep
Speaker 2: that private. And I mean we touched on it a
Speaker 2: little bit. No, you have a team, but like lit
Speaker 2: in yourself.
Speaker 3: The most helpful analogy I think I can't remember who
Speaker 3: said it with was Bridgid or I'm not sure it was.
Speaker 3: It's like, it's it's not healthy to an open war
Speaker 3: is not a healthy thing to sort of show. But
Speaker 3: the scars like a scar to talk about a scar
Speaker 3: it's it's it's a much safer thing to do for
Speaker 3: yourself and for a listener, but an open wound potentially
Speaker 3: not if that kind of makes sense.
Speaker 5: I think that was the It's also kind of you know,
Speaker 5: I think when when people when either one of us
Speaker 5: or a guest, yeah, talks about a scar like so
Speaker 5: in other words, like something that happened in the past,
Speaker 5: and they've somewhat processed it and thought about it and
Speaker 5: have and are able to talk about it in a
Speaker 5: in a reflective way, that is it's almost more I
Speaker 5: think for the purposes of the people listening, it's more helpful,
Speaker 5: I think because they've got some perspective on it, whereas, yeah,
Speaker 5: when it's an open wound, and maybe if they're in
Speaker 5: the middle of going through something and it's really hard,
Speaker 5: then it's I don't know, I feel like it's it
Speaker 5: can often it can be. It can still be really helpful,
Speaker 5: but in our experience, it's usually more helpful to the listener,
Speaker 5: which is always the field like more help over the listener.
Speaker 5: If it's if it's a reflection on a wound, yeah,
Speaker 5: on a scar, sorry and a scar.
Speaker 4: Yeah scar.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a really great analogy.
Speaker 3: I'm not taking credit for it, definitely would Bridget.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, such a Bridget. Yeah, that's amazing. Yeah, we've
Speaker 2: really we've been doing this for only two years and
Speaker 2: not nearly. You guys are in your seventh season.
Speaker 4: Seventh.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're doing a long time and you've had some
Speaker 2: awesome people on. Like I've listened and learned so much
Speaker 2: from different perspectives and everything. Can I ask you what maybe,
Speaker 2: like what does twenty twenty five look like for the
Speaker 2: pod or in terms of like will this just continue
Speaker 2: on for you guys? I know you guys have done
Speaker 2: like a few live shows in your time. Like who's
Speaker 2: your dream guest actually, like who would you love to
Speaker 2: have a conversation with or been sitting at the table with?
Speaker 4: I mean for me, for me, it's probably Jim Carrey.
Speaker 4: Oh yes, yeah, he's absolutely.
Speaker 5: Like I was in I think it was probably year
Speaker 5: eleven or twelve when like ace Ventura in the Mask
Speaker 5: and those films came out. So he's very much, you know,
Speaker 5: my one of my influences, like being in comedy, and
Speaker 5: he's gone on his own like complete life change and
Speaker 5: the way he like he's good mates with totally and
Speaker 5: like he's just like, he's got some amazing things to say.
Speaker 5: So I would love to have him on would you have.
Speaker 2: On as well? I saw him show and he just
Speaker 2: spoke about watching birds.
Speaker 4: I can't remember.
Speaker 2: There was this part where he was like, just sit
Speaker 2: and watch the bird and he imitated a bird. It
Speaker 2: was actually really good.
Speaker 4: That's a very thing to do.
Speaker 2: It's I've read.
Speaker 5: Both of his books watching birds.
Speaker 4: YouTube has got heaps more.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he suggested going watching birds and just analyzing them
Speaker 2: and being in his thing is power of now in
Speaker 2: like present moment, right, Yeah, so Jim Carrey for right,
Speaker 2: Jim Carrey, Yeah, I was a huge as venture fan.
Speaker 6: Who is my dream? Guess I'm kind of terrified because
Speaker 6: I don't think it's like an impossible thing. It might happen,
Speaker 6: It might happen one day, but I'm kind of scared
Speaker 6: that it will. Being Nick Cave, he has experienced a
Speaker 6: lot in losing two sons now in tragic circumstances, I
Speaker 6: mean losing actually what circumstances of losing a child is
Speaker 6: in tragic But he is this for me, an absolute
Speaker 6: model of honest vulnerability. But he is so intellectually brilliant
Speaker 6: and so so incredible that I just feel so inadequate
Speaker 6: near him, So I think it would be a terrifying interview.
Speaker 6: So I kind of like dream guess that I kind
Speaker 6: of hope doesn't actually happen because it would just be
Speaker 6: too much. Yeah, just be too nervous.
Speaker 4: I fluff it.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I should probably mentioned our live show before before, I figure,
Speaker 3: but we're doing that's probably the most fun I ever
Speaker 3: had in my life. But right up there. We did
Speaker 3: a live show last year and to the country year before,
Speaker 3: and we've decided to write a brand new show because
Speaker 3: we just have so much fun doing it. So this year,
Speaker 3: to answer your first question, we're writing a brand new
Speaker 3: live show and we're touring all the major cities around
Speaker 3: Australia end of the year. So that I cannot wait
Speaker 3: for that. My dream guest we had, we had Pat Cummins,
Speaker 3: strain and career captain, so very much fell in love
Speaker 3: with him and gave him the lyft to him from
Speaker 3: the hotel as well. I haven't done for guests before,
Speaker 3: and but having had you, i'd loved her. Billy Connelly,
Speaker 3: Scottish comedian, I loved her. That would be wow. Yeah,
Speaker 3: that would be pretty cool.
Speaker 2: How's your dream guest Maddie.
Speaker 1: Well, I was the one who said, can we get
Speaker 1: the imperfect on? So how about that off? No, we
Speaker 1: love it, but thank you so much for coming on today.
Speaker 1: It's been such a wonderful chat. Yeah. I appreciate what
Speaker 1: you're doing for you know, I want to say this,
Speaker 1: you know, I appreciate that you're creating a space for
Speaker 1: men to listen in and and get in touch with
Speaker 1: their vulnerability. I think it's super powerful thing, especially in
Speaker 1: the current political climate where we see a lot of misogyny,
Speaker 1: and I think that it's definitely the combat to one
Speaker 1: of the things that can combat the misogynistic ways of
Speaker 1: men and how they how they treat women in the world,
Speaker 1: these sort of conversations. So yeah, thank you so much.
Speaker 5: Thanks, I appreciate it.