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Speaker 1: Today on fear and greed. Wise Tech Global share price

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Speaker 1: tumbles more than thirteen percent on more allegations of inappropriate

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Speaker 1: behavior by founding CEO Richard White, Quanta spaces, tens of

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Speaker 1: millions of dollars in payouts to sacked ground staff, and

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Speaker 1: the best and worst of Donald Trump in just twenty

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Speaker 1: four hours.

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Speaker 2: All that more.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Fear and Greed. Daily business news for people

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Speaker 1: who make their own decisions. It's Tuesday, the twenty second

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Speaker 1: of October twenty twenty four. I'm Michael Thompson and good

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Speaker 1: morning Sean Aylmer. Good morning, Michael Shawn. The main story

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Speaker 1: this morning. Wise Tech Global share price tumbled more than

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Speaker 1: thirteen percent yesterday on more revelations of alleged poor and

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Speaker 1: leccherous behavior by its founder and CEO, Richard White.

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Speaker 2: The tech group's board convened over the weekend to re

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Speaker 2: examine allegations against mister White by a sexual partner after

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Speaker 2: they were notified of a story in Nine Media. Nine

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Speaker 2: claims the woman made a series of damaging claims, including

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Speaker 2: allegations of inappropriate behavior. There are allegations that mister White

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Speaker 2: approached numerous female entrepreneurs via text message and social media

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Speaker 2: with offers of professional support that could shift into suggestive language.

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Speaker 2: One woman dubbed him the LinkedIn lecture. Also, there were

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Speaker 2: corporate governance concerns over mister White's decision to pay former

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Speaker 2: chief growth officer Gail Williamson two point seven million dollars

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Speaker 2: without disclosing it to investors. This is all on top

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Speaker 2: of the dispute between mister White and wellness entrepreneur Linda Rogan,

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Speaker 2: who claims that mister White wanted to have a sexual

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Speaker 2: relationship with her in exchange for investing in her company. Now,

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Speaker 2: the board of directors, as I said, convened over the weekend.

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Speaker 2: They put out a statement yesterday. They said they're seeking

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Speaker 2: further information and taking external advice. Investors are worried. They've

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Speaker 2: sold off the company sent in the last two sessions

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Speaker 2: last week, then another thirteen percent yesterday. Mister White created

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Speaker 2: weiss Tek in nine A ninety four. He listed it

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Speaker 2: in twenty sixteen worth one billion dollars. It's now worth

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Speaker 2: forty one billion dollars. But there's a world of pain

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Speaker 2: out there for shareholders. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Indeed, Richard White himself Sean says that he doesn't want

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Speaker 1: to step down from running the business. Could that actually happen?

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Speaker 1: Considering that the circumstances of all of.

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Speaker 2: This, I think in twenty twenty four it could happen.

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Speaker 2: Boards have to take allegations like these seriously. Not that

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Speaker 2: long ago, it could pretty much have been ignored, swept

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Speaker 2: under the carpet. That's much less likely now. Problem is

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Speaker 2: that really big investors, superannuation funds, they do not want

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Speaker 2: to be around these sorts of stories. Their members don't

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Speaker 2: want to be investing in companies where these stories and

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Speaker 2: at the moment they are allegations that are untested. But

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Speaker 2: when these stories surface, members don't like it, and that

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Speaker 2: makes super funds nervous. But founding CEOs are all powerful.

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Speaker 2: Richard White has been very, very successful in a business

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Speaker 2: sense in taking wisteach Global from as I mentioned, one

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Speaker 2: billion to forty one billion dollars in market cap. I

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Speaker 2: like to say it's unusual, but I don't think it is.

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Speaker 2: Last week, of course, we had revelations from nine Entertainment

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Speaker 2: about some behavior within that organization. They're not related to

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Speaker 2: the CEO.

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Speaker 1: Just on Richard White, though, Sean we've talked in the

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Speaker 1: past about a concept of kind of key man risk

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Speaker 1: is that the situation that we're looking at here, as

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Speaker 1: well as reading some commentary around it yesterday and the

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Speaker 1: suggestion that without Richard White, there really is no Wise

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Speaker 1: Tech as far as investors see it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's probably overstating it, but he is

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Speaker 2: certainly very dominant, I mean, a dominant founding CEO. When

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Speaker 2: it works, it works spectacularly. Well. We've had a bunch

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Speaker 2: of people come on the show interviews who say, we

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Speaker 2: like people who are in the company. We like people

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Speaker 2: who have started and transitioned to become great CEOs. Richard

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Speaker 2: White up until this point has certainly fallen into that category.

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Speaker 2: Problem is when the founding CEO fails, then it does

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Speaker 2: so spectacularly because it really wipes value off the company. Now,

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Speaker 2: in the last three sessions, eight billion dollars has been

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Speaker 2: wiped off the value of wist Tech shares. There could

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Speaker 2: be more to come on that. So certainly is key

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Speaker 2: man risk. I think in twenty twenty four, it's very

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Speaker 2: hard for the board though, to look past the behavior

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Speaker 2: of CEOs and senior management.

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Speaker 1: I've got a very timely interview today, Sean. You're speaking

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Speaker 1: with Jered Murphy from Performance by Design.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's all about how important it is to get

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Speaker 2: the right leadership at the top, the right culture within

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Speaker 2: an organization. We don't specifically talk about wis tech, but Jared,

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Speaker 2: who's done a lot of work particularly with sportings teams

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Speaker 2: and corporates here in Australia, just talks about how important

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Speaker 2: to get the different pieces in place to make sure

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Speaker 2: that culture is good in an organization. Otherwise you're risking

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Speaker 2: the value of the company. It's that important.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it is a really important conversation. It is coming

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Speaker 1: up after the show, so stick around for that one.

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Speaker 1: Moving on, Shawn, the Federal Court has ordered Quantas to

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Speaker 1: pay one hundred and seventy thousand dollars in compensation to

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Speaker 1: three workers who formed a test case for the seventeen

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Speaker 1: hundred ground workers who were illegally sacked during COVID nineteen.

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Speaker 2: Yes, so one hundred and seventy thousand dollars doesn't sound much,

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Speaker 2: but this is a test case. It could get very

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Speaker 2: expensive for Quantus. It could cost tens or hundreds of

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Speaker 2: millions of dollars. The case now goes into mediation between

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Speaker 2: Quantus and the Transport Workers' Union around payouts for the

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Speaker 2: other one thousand, six hundred and ninety seven workers. But

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Speaker 2: the benchmark has been set. Quantus stood down ground handlers

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Speaker 2: during COVID or immediately afterward. It was during COVID actually,

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Speaker 2: and they didn't replace them with employees. What Quantus hat

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Speaker 2: was doing a bit differently back then, they actually employed

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Speaker 2: as part of Quantus these ground handlers. Many other airlines

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Speaker 2: outsourced it, so they employed them, and then they didn't

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Speaker 2: reemploy them. Instead they illegally outsourced ground handlers. Now that

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Speaker 2: was the case which the High Court eventually decided. Quanta

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Speaker 2: see Vanessa Hudson, in a statement yesterday, apologized to workers.

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Speaker 2: The Transport Workers Unions celebrated it as an unprecedented decision.

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Speaker 2: In any case, we now found out far we will

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Speaker 2: find out after this mediation how much compensation Quantus will

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Speaker 2: have to pay to these one thousand, nine one than

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Speaker 2: six hundred and ninety seven workers.

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Speaker 1: It could indeed be a very very large number. All right,

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Speaker 1: we've got a bit to get through still, Sean. We'll

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Speaker 1: be back in a moment with the rest of the

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Speaker 1: day's business news. Sean. In case he didn't know, it's

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Speaker 1: King Charles and Queen Camilla are in at the moment,

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Speaker 1: and yesterday in Canberra, Independent Senator Olivia Thorpe was escorted

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Speaker 1: from Parliament's Great Hall after interrupting a ceremony.

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Speaker 2: Yes the ex Greens senator waited for the King to

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Speaker 2: finish his speech before walking towards him and shouting at him.

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Speaker 2: She said things like, you're not our king, you are

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Speaker 2: not welcome, give us our land back. She threw in

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Speaker 2: a few obscenities at the same time. Eventually she was escorted,

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Speaker 2: sort of forced out of the room. During the process,

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Speaker 2: you could see that the King was talking to Prime

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Speaker 2: Minister Anthony Albernizim wasn't a very good look. So she

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Speaker 2: was in her place of work and perhaps Senator thought

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Speaker 2: it was okay to do that. What I must say

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Speaker 2: about this, I mean, I'm not a monarch. I like

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Speaker 2: King Charles because he's our wacky king. I think he's

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Speaker 2: actually handled himself really well. But it's been surprising the

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Speaker 2: traditional media has covered this visit. But there's like hundreds

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Speaker 2: of people, not thousands of people lining the streets, not

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Speaker 2: a huge amount of social media. You're on it. To

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Speaker 2: be perfectly honest, it was about Lydia Thorpe yesterday, but

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Speaker 2: kind of the I suppose the news of choice for

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Speaker 2: many people is not the traditional media outlets. It is

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Speaker 2: social media. There just hasn't been a lot on it.

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Speaker 1: I reckon, No, I think you're right. There's been some

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Speaker 1: great pictures in the last day or so, some great photos.

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Speaker 1: I was a terrific one of the King with Prime

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Speaker 1: Minister Anthony Aberneazy and they are both just grinning their

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Speaker 1: heads off and like, what on earth has just been

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Speaker 1: said in that moment. Yeah, there's some really nice and

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Speaker 1: really good photos. I hadn't realized that the crowds were

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Speaker 1: quite so small. Yeah, I mean it is a sign

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Speaker 1: of the times, perhaps, Sean.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, I mean I think I remember the Queen

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Speaker 2: being him many many years ago, and there were I

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Speaker 2: mean probably tens of thousands of people along the top

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Speaker 2: of Martin Place in Sydney. I worked at the Reserve

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Speaker 2: Bank at the time that which was on Long Macquarie Street,

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Speaker 2: and we went out of the balcony and watched to

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Speaker 2: drive past. There's enormous crowds. Well not anymore now, was

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Speaker 2: that her nineteen fifty four visit? Ah? Nice? Nice? Yeah,

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Speaker 2: nice work. Moving on, Michael, moving.

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Speaker 1: On oragin Energy boss Frank Colabria. Sean says the energy

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Speaker 1: transition is progressing, though it is messy due to challenges

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Speaker 1: around approvals from local communities.

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Speaker 2: Yeah so, he said, growth in data center's, artificial intelligence

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Speaker 2: and electric vehicles triggering much more demand than ever before.

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Speaker 2: He expects that to continue. Who is asked about small

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Speaker 2: nuclear reactors, he said, there's not really enough information around

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Speaker 2: the place at the moment to say if it is

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Speaker 2: worth taxpayer money. We know that the opposition in Peter

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Speaker 2: Dunte in particular is very keen on nuclear reactors, and

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Speaker 2: particularly small nuclear reactors. He said the commercialization costs and

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Speaker 2: scale are at least a decade away for that technology

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Speaker 2: too risky at the moment for Origin to invest who

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Speaker 2: in The big date for Origin energy is August twenty seven,

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Speaker 2: that's when the Arahan coal power station is to close,

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Speaker 2: which he talked a bit about that too, But he

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Speaker 2: said generally what's hindering the energy transition is just the

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Speaker 2: difficulties around approvals, with which local communities is a big

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Speaker 2: part of that.

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Speaker 1: Staying in the energy space, the boss of the Australian

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Speaker 1: Energy market operator, Daniel Westerman, said renewable energy is now

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Speaker 1: the lowest cost form of energy.

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Speaker 2: Yes, so like mister Clabury, mister Westerman was speaking at

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Speaker 2: the Australian Financial Reviews Energy and Climate Summit. He said

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Speaker 2: that solar power can actually exceed Australia's energy needs sometimes

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Speaker 2: towards the middle of the day and in a couple

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Speaker 2: of states solar power actually does most of the day,

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Speaker 2: which is very encouraging. The future though, is all about

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Speaker 2: building large amounts of storage that's needed for the power system.

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Speaker 2: Also the conference was Energy Minister Chris Bullen announced an

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Speaker 2: expansion in a scheme with money that's supposed to encourage

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Speaker 2: investment in wind, solar and batteries.

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Speaker 1: We can't get away from corporate governance stories for too Longshaw,

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Speaker 1: and we started the show with it. We're back there now.

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Speaker 1: The former chair of Mineral Resources, Peter Wade, failed to

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Speaker 1: disclose a ten year tax evasion scheme established by the

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Speaker 1: miners billionaire managing director Chris Ellison.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, quite remarkable this story again, it was in the

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Speaker 2: Financial Review. The scheme made money for the two Peter

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Speaker 2: Wade and Chris Ellison, plus three other founding executives five

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Speaker 2: in total, but it cost shareholders about seven million dollars.

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Speaker 2: According to the allegations. Mister Wade was a member of

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Speaker 2: the Mineral Resources Board Audit Committee from two thousand and

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Speaker 2: six to twenty eleven. He didn't disclose that the five

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Speaker 2: senior executives were using a British Virgin Island's domiciled company

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Speaker 2: to buy machinery with shareholder US and on sell the

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Speaker 2: equipment to the West Australian Iron Ore and Lythia Minor

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Speaker 2: at a higher markup and they were taking the profit.

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Speaker 2: Mister Ellison told the AFI it was a serious lapse

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Speaker 2: of judgment from him. He since made a settlement with

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Speaker 2: the ATO and all outstanding taxes being paid. The Mineral

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Speaker 2: Resources Board said it has full confidence in mister Ellison.

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Speaker 2: Chris Ellison, of course, is one of those another one

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Speaker 2: of those founder CEOs, a totally different set of circumstances

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Speaker 2: to what's going on at WIS tech Global with Richard White,

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Speaker 2: but still falls in that corporate governance bucket and a

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Speaker 2: bad look for the company.

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Speaker 1: Indeed, on the back of that news, Mineral Resources share

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Speaker 1: price fell more than thirteen percent. Wise, Tech Global was

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Speaker 1: also off more than thirteen percent. What about the rest

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Speaker 1: of the market shown.

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Speaker 2: They kind of dominated the news, but It was actually

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Speaker 2: a cracking day for the bores. It traded around record levels.

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Speaker 2: Apart from those two companies. It started off over the weekend.

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Speaker 2: Wall Street was strong and then miners in healthcare stop

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Speaker 2: led the way. Yesterday. The gold miners did particularly well, BHP,

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Speaker 2: Rio Tinto and forty s few medals did well after

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Speaker 2: there was a bit of a bounce in iron ore prices.

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Speaker 2: And you they had plenty of friends Goodman, West Farmers

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Speaker 2: and Macquarie, Woodside, CSL, Aristocrat, Leisure Aria. But I like

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Speaker 2: about that group. They are from such a diverse diverse

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Speaker 2: parts of the economy. You know, Goodman is property, West

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Speaker 2: Farmers retail, Macquarie's banking, Woodside Oil and Gas, et cetera.

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Speaker 2: Telstra was really the big poor performer yesterday. By the closes,

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Speaker 2: the Boss had was finished up zero point seven percent

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Speaker 2: to three hundred and forty four points.

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Speaker 1: I've got to mention gold as well, Sean. This is extraordinary.

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Speaker 1: It just keeps on going, doesn't it, fetching well over

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Speaker 1: two thousand and seven hundred US dollars an ounce.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So what's the reason mean? It's a safe haven.

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Speaker 2: Who've got a tight US selection coming up. We've got

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Speaker 2: the Middle East. There seems to be a bit of

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Speaker 2: fomo going on in that market as well. People don't

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Speaker 2: want to miss out on the rally. I mean, gold's

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Speaker 2: up thirty percent this year, that's quite remarkable. In Aussie dollars,

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Speaker 2: it's now above four thousand dollars an ounce. That spectacular really. Otherwise,

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Speaker 2: all prices are up again after an eight percent slump

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Speaker 2: last week. Benchmark interest rates in China were cut yesterday.

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Speaker 2: That helped those ion oil prices rise, which helped our

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Speaker 2: big miners and the ASIE dollars buying sixty seven US

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Speaker 2: cents a.

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Speaker 1: Couple of quick one sewn. Retailer Nick Scary has issued

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Speaker 1: a profit warning on the back of higher shipping costs.

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Speaker 2: Shorted hell It's AGM yesterday orders a high transport costs

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Speaker 2: are also high cut into profit margins. Its share price

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Speaker 2: fell five percent yesterday. Michael, the New.

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Speaker 1: South Wales state government is claiming that a decision to

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Speaker 1: ban mobile phones in the classroom last year has been

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Speaker 1: a huge success. I think this is fascinating.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. The state's Education department surveyed one thousand public schools.

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Speaker 2: There's huge support for the band. It was only late

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Speaker 2: last year that was introduced. Ninety five percent of respondents

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Speaker 2: reported positive results. Eighty one percent of principles said learning

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Speaker 2: had improved, eighty seven percent said students were less distracted,

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Speaker 2: and eighty six percent said socializing had improved.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to kind of venture into nanny state

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Speaker 1: material here, Sean, Please, could we perhaps implement something similar

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Speaker 1: for workplaces. Imagine that if everyone just goes back to

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Speaker 1: the landline phone for phone calls, the phone goes away.

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Speaker 1: No one's on Instagram, no one's on Facebook, no one's

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Speaker 1: on LinkedIn, the professionally acceptable kind of social media network.

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Speaker 1: Imagine the work you would get done.

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Speaker 2: Oh but how dull?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: I would. Sometimes when you're talking a lot, I go

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Speaker 2: under my phone during the broadcast.

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Speaker 1: I see you, I can see you do it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I see to scroll scroll scroll scroll. Okay, all right,

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Speaker 1: that's how it's going to be anyway, we're going to

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Speaker 1: implement it here. We'll start here in fear and Greed.

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Speaker 1: We'll run a trial, see if it's as successful as

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Speaker 1: the new South Wales state government trial. And finally, Sean

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Speaker 1: and Victoria stamp duty will be cut for all off

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Speaker 1: the planned units, townhouses and apartments in a twelve month

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Speaker 1: stimulus plan by the Allen government to encourage higher density developments.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the concessions aren't capped. It's available to all buyers.

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Speaker 2: The estimates from the government is that stamp duty on

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Speaker 2: a six hundred and twenty thousand dollar apartment goes from

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Speaker 2: about thirty two thousand down to four thousand. So a big,

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Speaker 2: big incentive to people for people to jump into the

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Speaker 2: market over the next twelve months or so.

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Speaker 1: Indeed, turning to international news, now, in US politics, Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump has had a good and bad couple of days.

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Speaker 1: The good a great photo opportunity for him working in

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Speaker 1: a McDonald's in Pennsylvania. The bad a very off color

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Speaker 1: comment about former golfer Arnold Palmer sean.

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Speaker 2: Not only is this the closest presidential race in decades,

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Speaker 2: I reconence.

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Speaker 1: The weirdest yep, without without a doubt.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, So Donald Trump was out of McDonald's drive

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Speaker 2: through in Pennsylvania. He was there about fifteen minutes, apparently

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Speaker 2: he was, and chips he was actually the drive through

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Speaker 2: box area. Krmla Harris suggests that she had worked at McDonald's.

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Speaker 2: Donald Trump basically said that was a lie, not that

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Speaker 2: he's proven that it's a lie or anything. So he

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Speaker 2: went and worked at McDonald's himself. The picks are fantastic,

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Speaker 2: you know. It really was Donald Trump at his finest,

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Speaker 2: showing that he understood people great Earlier, though, in a

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Speaker 2: twelve minute speech at the Arnold Palmer Regional Airport, he said,

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Speaker 2: amongst other things about Arnold Palmer, those who don't know

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Speaker 2: Arna Palmer is one of the greatest golfers of all time.

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Speaker 2: He said, when he took showers with the other pros,

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Speaker 2: they came out of there, they said, oh my god,

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Speaker 2: that's unbelievable. In a clear reference to his genitalium, Trump

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Speaker 2: went under say, we have women that are highly sophisticated here,

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Speaker 2: but they used to look at Arnold. I mean, poor taste, irrelevant, embarrassing,

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Speaker 2: certainly not presidential. I'm not trying to be political here.

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Speaker 2: But sometimes he says things like that, and it's just

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Speaker 2: I don't know how to take you. I don't know

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Speaker 2: what to do. I don't know how to respond. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: What I don't get, Sean, is how you can go

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Speaker 1: from being like essentially the consummate politician in the photo

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Speaker 1: op at McDonald's kind of that was just like that

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Speaker 1: was kind of political perfection because it was it was

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Speaker 1: just like a great, kind of great moment for him

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Speaker 1: because he just looked really down to worth and looked

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Speaker 1: like he was having fun. And then he can go

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Speaker 1: and bust out something like that, a line like that,

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Speaker 1: and you're like, really like in the same day, it

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Speaker 1: just doesn't make sense to me.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot more to it, But I like when

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Speaker 2: I read it, initially I laughed and then I cried,

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Speaker 2: like I.

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Speaker 1: Just yeah, it's just extraordinary. One more Sean former military

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Speaker 1: general Proboo Subianto has been sworn in as Indonesia's president,

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Speaker 1: and he announced the country's largest cabinet since the nineteen sixties.

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Speaker 2: He's seventy three year old, who had been dogged by

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Speaker 2: allegations of human rights abuses for decades. Is the country's

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Speaker 2: eighth president sand Evanira under former leader Jocko Widodo, who

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Speaker 2: presided over a decade of what do you have to say,

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Speaker 2: pretty strong economic growth and infrastructure development for Indonesia. Now.

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Speaker 2: Subianto has failed to become president twice. He finally succeeded

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Speaker 2: after winning fifty percent of the in February's elections against

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Speaker 2: two rivals. He vowed to eradicate corruption, poverty. He said

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Speaker 2: he'd be a president for all Indonesians. He then went

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Speaker 2: to name forty eight ministers and fifty eight vice ministers.

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Speaker 2: That would be quite a cabinet meeting.

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Speaker 1: That is huge, hode in a very very large cabinet room.

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Speaker 1: Up next, Sean, is the Fear and Great Daily Interview.

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Speaker 1: You're speaking to Death Jared Murphy from Performance by Design,

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Speaker 1: and at midday you'll hear ask Fear and Greed where

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Speaker 1: you can submit your question and we will do our

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Speaker 1: best to answer them. They are coming up in the

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Speaker 1: Fear and Greed playlist on your podcast platform or at

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Speaker 1: Fearangreed dot com dot au. Thank you very much, Sean.

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Speaker 2: Thank you Michael.

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Speaker 1: It is Tuesday, the twenty second of October twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 1: Make sure you're following the podcast and please join us

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Speaker 1: online on LinkedIn, Instagram, x TikTok and Facebook by Michael Thompson.

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Speaker 1: And that was Fear and Greed. Have a great day.