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Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. I'm Sean Aylmer.

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Sean Aylmer: We've spoken before about open banking. Open banking gives you

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Sean Aylmer: the ability to share your own bank data with third parties,

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Sean Aylmer: making it easier to switch products or banks and get

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Sean Aylmer: products that are more suited to you. Australia's been doing

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Sean Aylmer: a phased introduction of open banking, also known as the

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Sean Aylmer: Consumer Data Right, or CDR. It's also created opportunities for

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Sean Aylmer: FinTech entrepreneurs to make some waves in the banking sector.

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Sean Aylmer: One of those is Jill Berry, the Chief Executive Officer

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Sean Aylmer: and Co- founder of Adatree, who recently signed Australia's largest

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Sean Aylmer: bank and FinTech partnership with more than 25 banks and

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Sean Aylmer: Credit Unions to enter into Consumer Data Right. Jill, welcome

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Sean Aylmer: to Fear and Greed.

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Jill Berry: Hey,  Sean.  Thanks  for  having  me.

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Sean Aylmer: Can  you  give  me  a  quick 1-0- 1  on  open  banking 

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Sean Aylmer: first  up,  please?

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Jill Berry: Yeah.  Open  banking,  it's  a  regulated  data  sharing  ecosystem  where 

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Jill Berry: the  consumer  has  total  control  of  their  data,  and  you 

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Jill Berry: actually  own  it.  So  historically,  all  the  transaction  data,  all 

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Jill Berry: the  account  data,  everything  about  you,  it  would  be  held 

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Jill Berry: by  other  companies,  and  they  thought  that  they  owned  it. 

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Jill Berry: But  now  this  regulation  says  that  it's  yours,  and  you 

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Jill Berry: can  send  it  to  whoever  you  would  like  to  in 

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Jill Berry: a  really  closed  ecosystem.
 So,  if  you  think about  it  practically, 

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Jill Berry: if  you want  to  switch  an  account,  even  take  all  of 

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Jill Berry: your  pays  and your  banking  history  with  you,  your  bank  definitely 

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Jill Berry: would  not  share  it  with  a  new  one.  But  now, 

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Jill Berry: with  this  new  regulated  ecosystem,  if  you  wanted  to  share 

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Jill Berry: all  of  your  details  in  a  few  clicks  and  totally 

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Jill Berry: securely  with  a  new  provider  for,  say,  a  new  home 

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Jill Berry: loan  or  switching,  you  can  just  do  it  in  a 

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Jill Berry: few  clicks.  So,  ultimately  you  can  get  better  services,  decreased 

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Jill Berry: friction,  and  you  can  get  more  choice.

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Sean Aylmer: So,  for  me,  when I think about  open  banking,  it's  actually  about  the 

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Sean Aylmer: ability  to  switch  providers.  I  think  the  great  advantage  of 

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Sean Aylmer: it  is  with  a  couple  of  clicks,  I  can  actually 

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Sean Aylmer: get  all  my  information  transferred  as  opposed  to  going  through 

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Sean Aylmer: reams  of  paperwork.

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Jill Berry: That's exactly it. Instead of finding your superannuation, getting letters

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Jill Berry: from your employer about your salary, downloading statements, downloading PDFs,

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Jill Berry: having a stat dec, anything like that, you'd share it

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Jill Berry: digitally and in a few clicks. So, it's faster, less work

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Jill Berry: for you, but also it's way more secure. So, there's not companies just

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Jill Berry: having copies of your data all over.

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Sean Aylmer: Okay.  So,  what's it mean for  the  bank  or  the  provider?  Presumably,  they're 

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Sean Aylmer: going  to  have  to  pick  up  their  game  somewhat  if 

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Sean Aylmer: it's  easier  for  me  to compare.

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Jill Berry: Absolutely.  So,  there's  two  aspects  to  open  banking.  So,  it's 

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Jill Berry: essentially  like  throwing  a  ball  and  catching  it.  So  throwing 

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Jill Berry: a  ball,  it's  like  that's  the  data  holders.  So,  basically, 

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Jill Berry: the  companies  that  you  bank  with,  or  you  have  your 

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Jill Berry: energy  with,  they're  considered  data  holders,  so  they  have  to 

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Jill Berry: make  your  data  sharing  available.  And  then,  the  companies  that 

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Jill Berry: are  essentially  catching  the  ball,  receiving  the  data,  they're  regulated 

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Jill Berry: as  well.  And  they  have  to  essentially  have  connections  to 

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Jill Berry: all  the  banks.  They  have  to  reach  a  whole  lot 

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Jill Berry: of  technical  and  security  requirements  because  if  they're  receiving  your 

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Jill Berry: data,  ultimately,  you  want  them  to  be  secure  as  well.


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Jill Berry: So,  they  absolutely  have  to  up  their  game  and  view 

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Jill Berry: it  as  a  competitive  advantage,  not  just  a  compliance  project.

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Sean Aylmer: Yep.  Yeah.

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Jill Berry: So,  there's  so  many  different  use  cases  of  what  you 

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Jill Berry: can  actually  do  to  receive  the  data.  And  it's  just 

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Jill Berry: ultimately  about  better  products  and  services and  more  competitive  choices  for  consumers.

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Sean Aylmer: Okay. So, where does Adatree fit in  this  ecosphere?

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Jill Berry: Yeah.  So,  Adatree,  we're  a  B2B  enabler.  So,  my  background 

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Jill Berry: is  product  development,  and  I  love  solving  problems  for  consumers, 

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Jill Berry: but  we  actually  don't  do  that  here.  We  like  to 

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Jill Berry: talk  to  companies  that  are  FinTechs,  payment  companies,  insurers,  banks, 

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Jill Berry: companies  who  actually  have  the  relationship  with  the  consumers,  those 

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Jill Berry: users.  And  we  do  the  really  hard  stuff,  the  technical, 

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Jill Berry: the  compliance  work  to  connect  to  all  those  banks  and 

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Jill Berry: give  them  access  to  the  data  sources.  So,  they  can 

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Jill Berry: just  care  about  their  services and  their  users,  and  we  do 

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Jill Berry: all  the  hard  stuff.  So,  essentially,  we  handle  all  the 

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Jill Berry: connectors.  We're  a  secure  pipe  for  them.

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Sean Aylmer: Okay. So, the deal that you signed with more than 25 banks and credit unions to enter the CDR, that's

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Sean Aylmer: what that's about. You're kind of doing the backend for

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Sean Aylmer: all those organisations?

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Jill Berry: Yeah.  Absolutely.  So,  they're  leveraging  our  open  banking  platform  to 

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Jill Berry: test  and  receive  data.

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Sean Aylmer: Okay. So, open banking, it's been in the pipeline literally for years, and years, and years,

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Sean Aylmer: though it's only really kicked in in the last 12 or 18 months

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Sean Aylmer: or so. What's the reaction to it been so far

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Sean Aylmer: from both the consumers but also business and the providers side of things.

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Jill Berry: Yeah.  I  think  that  naturally,  people  are  more  interested  in 

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Jill Berry: what's  actually  happening  instead  of  theory  or,  of  course,  reading  regulation.

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Sean Aylmer: Yeah.

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Jill Berry: So,  there's  been  a  number  of  companies  that  are  accredited 

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Jill Berry: to  receive  data.  So,  that  means  that  they're  regulated,  and 

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Jill Berry: they  meet  a  whole  lot  of  stringent  requirements.  So,  they 

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Jill Berry: have  some  interesting  use  cases,  whether  it's  budgeting  or  opening 

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Jill Berry: a  personal  or  a  home  loan.  We've  launched  one  about 

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Jill Berry: data  for  good  and  about  COVID  hotspots  alerts  ourselves.  So, 

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Jill Berry: there's  a  lot  of  companies  that  are  getting  ready  for 

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Jill Berry: it  and  preparing  for  their  use  cases.
 So,  it  requires 

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Jill Berry: a  fair  amount  of  preparation  because  it  is  regulated.  But 

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Jill Berry: on  the  other  side  of  it,  I  think  as  of 

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Jill Berry: a  few  days  ago,  there  was  about  91  banks,  credit 

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Jill Berry: unions,  and  other  providers  actually  sharing  their  data.  So,  there's 

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Jill Berry: about  95%  addressable  market  in  companies  that  are  making  their 

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Jill Berry: data  sharing  available.  Now  they  don't  just  share  the  data, 

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Jill Berry: it's  only  when  a  customer  consents  to  share  their  data.

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Sean Aylmer: Right.  Stay  with  me,  Jill.  We'll  be  back  in  a 

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Sean Aylmer: minute.


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Sean Aylmer: My guest today is Jill Berry, the Chief Executive Officer and Co-

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Sean Aylmer: founder of Adatree. Have customers been jumping on board? It makes sense to me, but I also can understand that some people would have privacy concerns about it.

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Jill Berry: Yeah.  We  actually  get  that  all  the  time.  So,  ultimately 

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Jill Berry: CDR  is  a  tool  for  consumers  and  the  way  that 

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Jill Berry: their...  And  consumers  share  their  data  right  now  because  they 

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Jill Berry: just  care  about  having  a  problem  solved  or  receiving  a 

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Jill Berry: benefit.  Often,  right  now,  they  do  it  through  screen  scraping, 

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Jill Berry: which  is  an  unregulated  password- sharing  data  mechanism.  That's  gone 

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Jill Berry: away  in  the  UK.  That's  definitely,  I'm  sure  it  will 

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Jill Berry: go  away  in  Australia  soon,  but  that's  what  consumers  use 

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Jill Berry: right  now.  Or  even  upload  their  PDFs  or  just  manual 

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Jill Berry: statements.
 So,  we're  definitely  finding  a  higher  consent  rate  with 

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Jill Berry: open  banking,  but  there's  only  a  few  use  cases  that 

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Jill Berry: are  live,  so  we're  in  the  early  adopter  stage.  But 

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Jill Berry: the  same  way  that,  remember  when  debit  cards  came  out 

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Jill Berry: with  contact  lists,  and  you're  like,  oh,  this  is  weird. 

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Jill Berry: I  don't  have  to  enter  my  pin.  Oh,  there's  no 

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Jill Berry: signing.  And  now  we  can't  even  imagine  life  without  it because it's 

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Jill Berry: so  much  easier  with  tap  and  go.  I think that  that's  where 

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Jill Berry: CDR  is  actually  going.  We're  in  that  initial  stage  when 

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Jill Berry: you're  like,  oh,  here's  a  tool,  it's  actually  much  better 

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Jill Berry: than  what  we  have  right  now,  but  I'm  kind  of 

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Jill Berry: questioning  how  it  works.

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Sean Aylmer: Yep.  Yep.  Yep.  Yep.  Okay.  So,  what  are  the  eventual 

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Sean Aylmer: use  cases  do you think for  CDR?

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Jill Berry: So, I think that there's the natural ones in banking

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Jill Berry: are about making it much easier for you to get

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Jill Berry: access to new loans and definitely refinance. Those are the

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Jill Berry: more simple, straightforward ones. But there is a lot of

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Jill Berry: really interesting ones about switching and making it proactive. So,

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Jill Berry: I get really excited about those. So, it's not just banking,

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Jill Berry: but it's about how can you look at your superannuation,

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Jill Berry: all of your insurance policies as well, because normally if

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Jill Berry: you are looking for a new insurance policy right now,

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Jill Berry: it probably has to do with a life event. Oh,

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Jill Berry: maybe you just bought a dog. Maybe you just bought

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Jill Berry: a house. Maybe you're going on around the world trips,

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Jill Berry: you're looking for a policy. You kind of set it

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Jill Berry: and forget it. So, it's actually quite reactive. You might

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Jill Berry: go looking for it at a certain time, but with open banking,

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Jill Berry: you can share your data on an ongoing basis, and

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Jill Berry: a data recipient can actually just be proactive in the

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Jill Berry: background for you and just say, " Hey Sean, I know

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Jill Berry: that you're with X company right now. Here's a better

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Jill Berry: offer right now. In a few clicks, if you consent,

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Jill Berry: we'll open a new account for you over here, facilitate

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Jill Berry: the switching of funds." So, it's really switching as a service.

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Jill Berry: I think it's taking that life admin out because how

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Jill Berry: many times have people opened an account at the highest rate?

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Jill Berry: And then a few months later they find out that

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Jill Berry: it's actually at a terrible rate. So, unless you're really looking,

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Jill Berry: then you're probably not getting the best rate in market. So,

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Jill Berry: those type of things the CDR can actually facilitate. I

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Jill Berry: think that insurance and loyalty are actually a really big

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Jill Berry: opportunity as well.

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Sean Aylmer: Okay. So, Jill, native of Niagara Falls, how did you

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Sean Aylmer: end up founding Adatree?

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Jill Berry: Yeah. So, it definitely wasn't my plan at all to

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Jill Berry: start a company, but I think it was just right time,

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Jill Berry: right team, and just an incredible opportunity. So, my background

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Jill Berry: is product development. I've helped build two new banks in Australia,

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Jill Berry: and I like to build regulated products at smaller banks. So,

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Jill Berry: with that, I definitely love a new challenge, solving problems

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Jill Berry: and more importantly, executing on it and working with software engineers. So,

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Jill Berry: we are at Volt Bank. I was talking with my co-

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Jill Berry: founder Shane. We are looking at this new open banking legislation.

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Jill Berry: We're like, wow, this is amazing of what it can

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Jill Berry: mean for consumers, especially economy- wide, not just banking. And

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Jill Berry: the technical standards were incredibly difficult. It's kind of similar

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Jill Berry: to building a bank.

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Sean Aylmer: Yep.

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Jill Berry: And  there  was  no  solution  out  there.  So  we're  like, 

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Jill Berry: there's  such  huge  benefits,  but  if  there's  no  easy  solution 

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Jill Berry: out  there,  then  there  won't  be  much  adoption.  So,  we 

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Jill Berry: just  decided  to  essentially  quit  and  found  Adatree because  we're so committed to the  CDR, 

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Jill Berry: and  we  wanted to make  it  really  easy.

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Sean Aylmer: Okay.  Something  else.  You've  spoken  a  lot  about  the  fact 

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Sean Aylmer: that  more  women  are  needed  in  the  FinTech  industry.  Is 

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Sean Aylmer: it  getting  any  better?

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Jill Berry: The  FinTech  census  has  shown  that  there  is  a  definite 

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Jill Berry: increase  in  female  founders  and  female  leadership  in  fintechs.  But 

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Jill Berry: I  think  that  it  is  still  pretty  rare  to  find 

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Jill Berry: female  founders  or  female  leaders  there.  Even  that  they  have 

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Jill Berry: to  have  female  leadership  awards  that  just  shows  that  it's 

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Jill Berry: just  such  a  minority  in  there.  So,  it's  definitely  getting 

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Jill Berry: better,  especially  with  females  finding  investment, but  it's  still  nowhere  equal 

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Jill Berry: the  way  that  it  should  it  be.

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Sean Aylmer: I've got to ask, as I read this in the research for

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Sean Aylmer: this discussion, did you really receive the advice to hire a male CEO?

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Jill Berry: It was definitely suggested to  me.  Yes.

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Sean Aylmer: Oh.  Ouch.  What  did  you  say?  What  did  you  say?

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Jill Berry: I said, "I think I'm doing  a  pretty  good  job.  I'll  back  myself,  but  thank  you."

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Sean Aylmer: Fair  enough.  Very  polite.  Jill,  thank  you  for  talking  to 

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Sean Aylmer: Fear  and  Greed.

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Jill Berry: Thanks for having  me,  Sean.

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Sean Aylmer: That was Jill Berry, Chief Executive Officer and Co- founder

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Sean Aylmer: of Adatree. This is the Fear and Greed daily interview.

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Sean Aylmer: Join me every morning for the full Fear and Greed

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Sean Aylmer: podcast with all the business news you need to know.

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Sean Aylmer: I'm Sean Aylmer. Enjoy your day.