WEBVTT - Burnout with psychologist Shannon 0:00:05.921 --> 0:00:07.281 Apologie Production. 0:00:11.041 --> 0:00:14.441 Hi, my name's beck Woodbine and welcome to Tenderness for Nurses. 0:00:15.041 --> 0:00:18.801 I'm grateful for the person that I have the opportunity 0:00:18.881 --> 0:00:22.441 to be, so I hit it and parked it for 0:00:22.561 --> 0:00:25.680 Nelly four years. We always have free will, We always 0:00:25.721 --> 0:00:26.361 get to choose. 0:00:26.481 --> 0:00:28.441 We are autonomous. Hi. 0:00:28.641 --> 0:00:32.121 Everyone, thank you for tuning back into Tenderness for Nurses. 0:00:32.521 --> 0:00:36.440 Today we have Shannon Swiles who was a psychologist. She 0:00:36.521 --> 0:00:40.561 has her own business called Burnout Psychology Support, And due 0:00:40.641 --> 0:00:43.881 to the overwhelming response to the question I put out 0:00:44.281 --> 0:00:49.041 about what you guys wanted to hear about, which was burnout, 0:00:49.321 --> 0:00:52.361 So I reached out to Shannon and asked her if 0:00:52.400 --> 0:00:56.161 she'd mind coming on the podcast because that is her specialty, 0:00:56.521 --> 0:00:59.121 and I wanted to make sure that when we talked 0:00:59.121 --> 0:01:03.961 about burnout that we had some great tips ideas understanding 0:01:04.200 --> 0:01:07.561 around burnout from a professional that deals with it on 0:01:07.601 --> 0:01:11.041 a daily basis with her own clients. She has her 0:01:11.041 --> 0:01:13.920 own podcast, What else do you do? Shannon? Oh God? 0:01:14.000 --> 0:01:17.881 I also write I have a blog up on Psychology today. Well, 0:01:17.881 --> 0:01:20.481 I write a lot about burnout, but also I wrote 0:01:20.761 --> 0:01:25.001 a book that was basically my journals of my burnout story. 0:01:25.241 --> 0:01:27.601 So I put that together in a book and that's 0:01:28.000 --> 0:01:29.840 a Bible two. So writing is a big part. 0:01:29.721 --> 0:01:31.921 Of what I do too. Okay, well, thank you so 0:01:32.000 --> 0:01:34.801 much for taking time out of your very busy schedule. 0:01:35.000 --> 0:01:37.840 I really appreciate you coming on to talk nursing burnout, 0:01:37.920 --> 0:01:42.560 healthcare providers burnout. I'm probably going to focus on healthcare 0:01:42.601 --> 0:01:47.160 providers nursing because overwhelmingly that is the people that listen 0:01:47.280 --> 0:01:50.601 to my podcast. However, it seems to be growing and 0:01:50.961 --> 0:01:53.441 we've got quite a lot of lay people for one 0:01:53.481 --> 0:01:56.601 of a better term out listening and the stories that 0:01:56.641 --> 0:01:58.641 we're sharing and the people we're sharing and they're really 0:01:58.681 --> 0:02:01.001 getting some great information. Because, let's be honest, burnout is 0:02:01.001 --> 0:02:03.800 across the board. You have your own story. 0:02:03.481 --> 0:02:06.761 But essentially my story hit a burnout hit its peak 0:02:07.321 --> 0:02:09.641 twenty fifth of February twenty twenty one. I still remember 0:02:09.681 --> 0:02:12.241 the day showed up to work and that was my 0:02:12.321 --> 0:02:15.321 very last day as a clinical psychologist at the time 0:02:15.401 --> 0:02:19.601 working in private practice full time. Probably had been doing 0:02:19.601 --> 0:02:23.201 that for about eight years, post my huge amount of 0:02:23.201 --> 0:02:26.121 training that you go through. Yeah, I was just completely 0:02:26.240 --> 0:02:29.441 my always often say my body gave in. It did 0:02:29.481 --> 0:02:32.601 the talking, and I had a couple of wonderful women 0:02:32.841 --> 0:02:35.921 in One was my director at the practice I worked at, 0:02:36.161 --> 0:02:40.481 and the other was my supervisor who basically just was 0:02:41.161 --> 0:02:45.321 there when I came to that realization just took almost 0:02:45.361 --> 0:02:48.361 like yeah, just there was the support to go, it's okay, 0:02:49.081 --> 0:02:54.680 it's okay to leave and look after yourself. I think 0:02:54.721 --> 0:02:58.041 without them I probably wouldn't have I would have kept pushing. 0:02:59.081 --> 0:03:01.881 But yeah, my body was pretty much at it's lowess. 0:03:01.960 --> 0:03:06.041 So yeah, can you explain that a little bit more. 0:03:06.081 --> 0:03:09.201 You went to work, Yeah, and you fell in a heap. 0:03:09.401 --> 0:03:11.721 You just felt sick, you didn't want to be there. 0:03:12.081 --> 0:03:15.120 Yeah, there was the above all of it. I mean 0:03:15.161 --> 0:03:17.361 there was a huge lead up. I mean I see 0:03:17.361 --> 0:03:19.560 this with my clients as well. When you look back. 0:03:19.921 --> 0:03:22.081 I lived in probably what you would call a high 0:03:22.121 --> 0:03:26.001 functioning anxiety state and definitely constant stress state for a 0:03:26.081 --> 0:03:28.481 long time, probably most of my life. 0:03:28.481 --> 0:03:30.120 So there was that build up. 0:03:31.121 --> 0:03:33.521 There was also a lack of holidays. It was the 0:03:33.641 --> 0:03:37.521 COVID year, that first year of COVID twenty twenty that 0:03:37.601 --> 0:03:39.841 led up to my twenty twenty one, so I didn't 0:03:39.841 --> 0:03:43.521 have my regular breaks, not that they ever completely restored 0:03:44.041 --> 0:03:47.641 my equilibrium. But they were of course I think what 0:03:47.761 --> 0:03:52.521 I often term a protective factor in keeping me somewhat buoyant. 0:03:53.081 --> 0:03:55.441 So that was out of the picture. And of course, 0:03:55.481 --> 0:03:58.801 as we know, and your nurses and other health practitioner 0:03:58.801 --> 0:04:02.401 will know, how much pressure and I always felt the 0:04:02.401 --> 0:04:04.761 weight of responsibility, even if it wasn't there yet. I 0:04:04.761 --> 0:04:07.361 could seeing the kind of future and go oh, I 0:04:07.361 --> 0:04:08.761 already saw that there was going to be a mental 0:04:08.761 --> 0:04:11.601 health crisis, and like we already had full books. So 0:04:11.641 --> 0:04:14.481 I was just feeling that pressure and not having that 0:04:14.561 --> 0:04:18.921 reprieve of time away. So there was a lot of 0:04:20.401 --> 0:04:23.440 I was waking up tired. I no amount of sleep 0:04:23.440 --> 0:04:27.241 would restore. I was losing pleasure in things I once 0:04:27.281 --> 0:04:30.921 found pleasure in. My motivation was low. I was irritable 0:04:31.081 --> 0:04:33.801 just after my husband he says, you were snappy. He 0:04:33.880 --> 0:04:36.801 knew something was up before I did. And I was 0:04:36.921 --> 0:04:40.121 losing the care for my pain and for my clients, 0:04:40.721 --> 0:04:44.161 which was one of the things that really made me go, 0:04:44.281 --> 0:04:46.200 I need to do something, And I was trying to 0:04:46.241 --> 0:04:49.241 do something. I was trying to step away from the 0:04:49.241 --> 0:04:53.161 one on one therapy work and diversify into like group 0:04:53.201 --> 0:04:56.041 work or something else to balance. But it all came 0:04:56.121 --> 0:04:58.361 a little bit too late, and I wasn't getting a 0:04:58.361 --> 0:05:01.720 lot of success trying to find that different way to work. 0:05:02.001 --> 0:05:04.440 It's just a little bit too late that I actually 0:05:04.440 --> 0:05:06.681 needed to step away not work with the level of 0:05:06.681 --> 0:05:09.401 burnout I had. But those were some of the signs 0:05:09.440 --> 0:05:12.400 and some of the things that looking back, especially the 0:05:13.121 --> 0:05:16.201 we term it like a depersonalization, or I sometimes call 0:05:16.281 --> 0:05:21.441 a disconnection where there was connection before to your clients 0:05:22.001 --> 0:05:24.201 as you call them patients, or yeah. 0:05:24.320 --> 0:05:29.320 Yeah, what were the next steps you took ah therapy? 0:05:30.241 --> 0:05:32.841 I I wrote myself off in times of Okay, you're 0:05:32.880 --> 0:05:35.001 not going to work, and that was really hard because 0:05:35.081 --> 0:05:39.400 work was my identity, My role was my identity. My 0:05:39.481 --> 0:05:43.321 contribution to the world was my work. Yeah, that took 0:05:43.361 --> 0:05:46.520 a lot to say no to the work, and I 0:05:46.561 --> 0:05:50.481 even battled that as I was not working. So that 0:05:50.641 --> 0:05:53.400 was the first step to not work at all. I 0:05:53.440 --> 0:05:55.161 didn't know how long that was going to last, or 0:05:55.161 --> 0:05:58.361 how long the money would last. To do that and 0:05:58.401 --> 0:06:01.241 then take myself off to therapy, went to see my doctor, 0:06:01.921 --> 0:06:04.241 got an appointment, got a mental health care plan as 0:06:04.281 --> 0:06:08.041 we call it here Australia, and started to see a psychologist. 0:06:08.161 --> 0:06:10.121 Those were the two things that's in my mind. I 0:06:10.201 --> 0:06:14.201 need to not work. Although this is painful and I 0:06:14.281 --> 0:06:17.080 need to I need help. I can't do this on 0:06:17.121 --> 0:06:19.921 my own. I can't help myself. I can, but I 0:06:19.961 --> 0:06:20.481 need help. 0:06:20.601 --> 0:06:21.761 How hard did you find that? 0:06:22.401 --> 0:06:24.681 I actually find it. I've been in therapy before, so 0:06:24.801 --> 0:06:27.841 I find again. I think it's that I can talk 0:06:27.880 --> 0:06:32.841 to strangers easy. So it was telling my parents, it 0:06:32.880 --> 0:06:36.641 was telling my husband. It was opening up to people 0:06:36.841 --> 0:06:42.281 I have an emotional relationship with that I feared, even 0:06:42.320 --> 0:06:44.921 though there's no grounds for it. I feared rejection. I 0:06:44.961 --> 0:06:48.520 feared that they would think less of me. But with 0:06:48.601 --> 0:06:52.161 a psychologist, well that's their job, and I had enough 0:06:52.161 --> 0:06:58.280 experience with psychologists and good ones to feel comfortable going there. 0:06:58.641 --> 0:07:00.201 Is the journey still ongoing. 0:07:00.721 --> 0:07:02.601 I think the journey's ongoing, but it's more of the 0:07:02.721 --> 0:07:07.640 journey of self connection and taking care of myself and 0:07:08.001 --> 0:07:11.521 considering my needs, which you know weren't in the picture 0:07:11.801 --> 0:07:15.401 before and was a contributor to my burnout. And I'm 0:07:15.441 --> 0:07:18.081 not alone in that. A lot of people's burnout includes that. 0:07:18.761 --> 0:07:21.641 I think that journey's just ongoing because you know, forty 0:07:21.721 --> 0:07:23.961 years prior to my burnout, you know it's forty one 0:07:23.961 --> 0:07:26.840 when I burnt out that I lived in a certain way, 0:07:27.401 --> 0:07:29.121 and you know, I was a perfectionist. I was a 0:07:29.121 --> 0:07:32.321 people pleaser, I was a self sacrificer. I was pretty 0:07:32.361 --> 0:07:34.161 much all the things you can tick the boxes of 0:07:34.801 --> 0:07:38.801 risk factors for burnout, and these are behavioral patterns and 0:07:39.481 --> 0:07:42.441 they stem into your belief system and a lot of 0:07:42.481 --> 0:07:47.121 it's unconscious. So I feel that works still ongoing. Like perfectionism. 0:07:47.161 --> 0:07:49.481 No longer has I saved my clients, no longer has 0:07:49.521 --> 0:07:51.361 the driver's seat, But it's not that she isn't in 0:07:51.401 --> 0:07:52.561 there in the passenger seat. 0:07:52.641 --> 0:07:56.681 Yeah, just whispering occasionally. You run your own business now, 0:07:56.721 --> 0:08:04.521 so you pick your hours. Yes, I was pretty burnt 0:08:04.561 --> 0:08:11.561 out twenty twenty one. Oh yeah, and a year of work. 0:08:12.121 --> 0:08:14.961 There was a hot mess for a hot minute. Do 0:08:15.041 --> 0:08:20.161 you find there is a particular group or profession that 0:08:20.321 --> 0:08:22.481 tends to have a higher burnout rate than others? 0:08:23.321 --> 0:08:28.401 Yeah, I think both definitely. Professionally, it usually is the 0:08:28.441 --> 0:08:33.161 professions that there's high a number of women in, so teachers, nurses, 0:08:34.041 --> 0:08:40.321 any health professional particularly, Like there's a lot of research 0:08:40.361 --> 0:08:42.481 that is done on nurses and burnout, which is great, 0:08:43.481 --> 0:08:47.441 but yeah, health professional is definitely anyone who's client facing, 0:08:47.521 --> 0:08:51.601 person facing, and not just any person vulnerable people also 0:08:51.721 --> 0:08:57.321 nurses into ice workers, oh, caregivers, cares, non paid and 0:08:57.361 --> 0:09:01.801 paid parent you know, like you're constantly with your kids 0:09:01.841 --> 0:09:05.881 and women, we tend to be high numbers in these 0:09:05.961 --> 0:09:08.801 kinds of jobs. And then you know, a percentage of 0:09:08.881 --> 0:09:11.201 us go on to have kids and raise kids. I 0:09:12.001 --> 0:09:15.281 chose not to. But it's you know, there's that you know, 0:09:15.321 --> 0:09:18.161 they're vulnerable, they're dependent on you, they require you. It's 0:09:18.201 --> 0:09:21.161 twenty four seven so and the research does back that 0:09:21.281 --> 0:09:26.641 up too, that it's professions where you're client facing, they're vulnerable. 0:09:26.961 --> 0:09:29.801 And there's also a lot of research and I've seen 0:09:29.841 --> 0:09:33.961 it clinically too, where there's certain I say types of people, 0:09:33.961 --> 0:09:37.921 but behavioral patterns and certain personalities that are more at rest, 0:09:38.081 --> 0:09:41.161 like introverts and more at risk. We don't choose to 0:09:41.161 --> 0:09:44.841 be introverts. I'm an introvert. People who are more conscientious 0:09:44.961 --> 0:09:51.681 and neurotic are more at risk. Ask personalogy, It's like yeah, 0:09:51.841 --> 0:09:54.161 and it's not, well, we were born when you were 0:09:54.201 --> 0:09:56.881 born with our personalities, you know, and then you know 0:09:57.001 --> 0:10:00.401 other things behavioral patterns. You know, I got into We 0:10:00.481 --> 0:10:02.321 won't get into how that happened, but you know I 0:10:02.361 --> 0:10:05.921 went through that in therapy. But perfectionism, you know, having 0:10:06.001 --> 0:10:09.721 unrelenting standards self worth based on what I achieved, you know, 0:10:09.841 --> 0:10:12.801 and our culture sets us up for that, you know, 0:10:12.881 --> 0:10:16.161 especially as women. So we know there's a lot of 0:10:16.161 --> 0:10:20.441 research around people with perfectionism beliefs and behavioral patterns are 0:10:20.481 --> 0:10:23.481 more likely to burn out. Women. Just being a woman, 0:10:24.481 --> 0:10:26.881 you're more at risk of burnout. Being a woman who 0:10:26.921 --> 0:10:29.401 is married, you're more at risk of burnout. 0:10:29.561 --> 0:10:30.081 Is that right? 0:10:30.121 --> 0:10:35.681 And you're especially like our neurodivergence, more risk of burnout 0:10:35.721 --> 0:10:38.481 as well. So if you're diagnose with autism or ADHD, 0:10:39.281 --> 0:10:40.801 more at risk chronic film. 0:10:41.001 --> 0:10:44.801 Yeah this, Yeah, I just found I in my own business, 0:10:44.881 --> 0:10:46.721 couldn't say no to anybody or that. 0:10:46.921 --> 0:10:49.841 Yeah, yeah, they're not saying no. Yeah. 0:10:49.961 --> 0:10:51.761 And I would go in early, does this one? Or 0:10:51.801 --> 0:10:54.201 I'd stay back late to see someone, or I would 0:10:54.241 --> 0:10:58.321 take that phone call, or I'd answer that Instagram message. 0:10:59.001 --> 0:11:00.961 And I've got a great team around me now who 0:11:01.201 --> 0:11:06.561 helped manage me with that. But it's a constant. I 0:11:06.681 --> 0:11:10.081 constantly have to manage it because I will go out 0:11:10.081 --> 0:11:13.361 of my way to people please. Yeah, and it's not 0:11:13.441 --> 0:11:17.361 even easing the word people please, because I will stick 0:11:17.401 --> 0:11:19.001 up for myself and that way I need to. 0:11:19.441 --> 0:11:23.921 But oh maybe it Well, you bring up a really 0:11:23.921 --> 0:11:26.681 good because that behavior of not being able to say no, 0:11:26.761 --> 0:11:29.121 there could be many drivers or a combination of It 0:11:29.161 --> 0:11:31.321 could be a bit of people pleasing, but it could 0:11:31.361 --> 0:11:34.921 also I've heard and seen and it wasn't for me, 0:11:35.041 --> 0:11:37.641 but like they were really excited, you know, like that 0:11:37.721 --> 0:11:41.521 project seemed really interesting. They really genuinely wanted. It was 0:11:41.641 --> 0:11:45.561 more impulsive maybe like for them, you know, there was 0:11:45.601 --> 0:11:49.321 more of an impulsivity, so there wasn't the slowing down 0:11:49.361 --> 0:11:52.441 to consciously think. It was just like, oh that looks interesting, 0:11:52.481 --> 0:11:56.041 I want to do it. So yeah, it wasn't driven 0:11:56.121 --> 0:12:00.481 primarily by people pleasing for them, but this, well that 0:12:00.601 --> 0:12:02.401 just sounds interesting and I don't want to miss out. 0:12:02.881 --> 0:12:05.881 So the no behavior could be driven by many things 0:12:05.961 --> 0:12:08.761 as probably not a simple answer as like people pleasing. 0:12:08.801 --> 0:12:11.481 It was for me and my worth based on what 0:12:11.521 --> 0:12:15.681 other people thought of me, So I people please to 0:12:15.801 --> 0:12:17.921 get that hit of I feel good, even though I 0:12:17.961 --> 0:12:21.601 wasn't consciously thinking that, but it made sense when I 0:12:21.601 --> 0:12:23.801 could make that connection for me. You know that that's 0:12:23.841 --> 0:12:26.521 what it was about. And as I mentioned earlier, my 0:12:26.641 --> 0:12:30.521 identity was all about work and particularly not being a mother, 0:12:30.961 --> 0:12:33.521 which again was by choice. But I put all my 0:12:33.561 --> 0:12:36.001 eggs into the work basket. Then you know, I'm all 0:12:36.041 --> 0:12:40.161 about my career because culture, again they either value a 0:12:40.201 --> 0:12:43.961 woman as career or mother or both. And I was like, well, 0:12:43.961 --> 0:12:46.121 I'm not a mother, so all I have to offer 0:12:46.281 --> 0:12:48.761 is career. And again this wasn't conscious, but we know 0:12:48.921 --> 0:12:50.401 that stuff like it's in a you know. 0:12:50.721 --> 0:12:57.081 What are the signs and let's focus on healthcare professionals. 0:12:57.561 --> 0:13:01.841 What are the signs that you may be heading towards out? 0:13:02.361 --> 0:13:07.561 Yeah, I feel like drawing on here. There's a classification 0:13:07.641 --> 0:13:11.201 of burnout that the World Health Organization adopts, which comes 0:13:11.201 --> 0:13:14.281 from the research, and I think it really then gives 0:13:14.441 --> 0:13:18.921 you others something to look out for. But I'll go 0:13:18.961 --> 0:13:22.441 into symptoms as well, particularly for healthcare. But they talk 0:13:22.481 --> 0:13:28.401 about and they adopt this researchers classification maslak and emotional exhaustion. 0:13:28.921 --> 0:13:31.881 So this is a type of exhaustion that yeah, no matter, 0:13:31.961 --> 0:13:36.201 sleep will help you feel great and rejuvenated. But some 0:13:36.281 --> 0:13:38.961 of my clients or people will just say, like, it's 0:13:38.961 --> 0:13:43.001 almost like a soul tired or mind body, and soul 0:13:43.161 --> 0:13:46.041 is what I called it, tired, like we just yeah, 0:13:46.161 --> 0:13:48.961 it's a different level of tide. But what they've noticed 0:13:49.041 --> 0:13:52.961 is women particularly are more likely to experience that sign 0:13:53.201 --> 0:13:58.441 of burnout emotional exhaustion than men. Men tend to And 0:13:58.521 --> 0:14:00.721 this is another sign is that you might notice in 0:14:00.761 --> 0:14:04.001 health professionals. This one can be big. Is like a 0:14:04.481 --> 0:14:08.001 that disc I mentioned earlier, that depersonalization, Like you might 0:14:08.041 --> 0:14:10.521 be saying to yourself, and I said this to myself, 0:14:10.561 --> 0:14:12.841 I'm pretending to care today. I mean, of course I 0:14:12.881 --> 0:14:15.481 showed up for my clients, but I wasn't connected. I 0:14:15.641 --> 0:14:17.761 wasn't there like I used to be. You know, I 0:14:17.801 --> 0:14:21.521 was playing a role. So you might notice you're separating 0:14:21.521 --> 0:14:25.361 a bit. There might be some cynicism or negativism towards 0:14:25.361 --> 0:14:28.121 your job that wasn't there before. You might notice that 0:14:28.161 --> 0:14:31.881 you're snapping or irritable to maybe not at work because 0:14:31.921 --> 0:14:34.161 you can hold it together there, but maybe at home 0:14:35.081 --> 0:14:38.281 because that's where you just let those defenses down. But 0:14:38.321 --> 0:14:42.721 you know, your stressed out body is just reactive. And 0:14:42.761 --> 0:14:45.561 the other one is that you might notice not everyone 0:14:45.601 --> 0:14:48.441 gets this one better sense of your self efficacy, your 0:14:48.441 --> 0:14:50.641 belief in you, in your ability to do your job 0:14:50.721 --> 0:14:52.881 might be lowered, or just a sense of achievement or 0:14:52.921 --> 0:14:55.241 getting somewhere. I got that one. I just felt like 0:14:55.921 --> 0:14:56.921 I'm getting nowhere. 0:14:57.441 --> 0:15:00.401 If you signed a question going to work, why you 0:15:00.561 --> 0:15:03.081 like work? You're not feeling joy in anything. It is 0:15:03.081 --> 0:15:06.561 feeling a bit flat. And you're in that mid forties 0:15:06.601 --> 0:15:11.081 age group. If you're a female and presenting with these feelings. 0:15:11.361 --> 0:15:14.721 Is it something that you do talk about. Is that hormones? 0:15:14.841 --> 0:15:17.961 Hormones impact all of this, you know, maybe go get 0:15:17.961 --> 0:15:21.561 some levels done with your GP, go see your gynecologists. 0:15:22.041 --> 0:15:25.201 Is that something you do discuss with your patients. 0:15:25.321 --> 0:15:28.681 Yeah, at some point, At some point, it depends what 0:15:28.721 --> 0:15:30.801 the crisis point is. And most of the time, by 0:15:30.801 --> 0:15:32.961 the time they see me, they're in crisis. It could 0:15:33.041 --> 0:15:36.961 be that you know, I'm going to get a divorce 0:15:37.121 --> 0:15:39.561 like or I'm going to divorce my husband. The relationships 0:15:39.561 --> 0:15:42.441 in crisis, or their health is in crisis. They've had 0:15:42.481 --> 0:15:45.041 a heart attack, they've been diagnosed with type two diabetes 0:15:45.041 --> 0:15:49.521 because chronic stress does impact the body, or they're on 0:15:49.841 --> 0:15:53.201 sickly from work because of the burnout so you know 0:15:53.481 --> 0:15:57.801 it does come up at some point, Yes, about hormones 0:15:57.881 --> 0:16:01.161 and chronic stress on body is going to affect your 0:16:01.201 --> 0:16:03.841 with your mines. Yeah, it's going to affect so many things. 0:16:03.921 --> 0:16:08.601 So having a doctor who has that very holistic understanding 0:16:08.921 --> 0:16:11.081 and in women's health as well, and a doctor you 0:16:11.161 --> 0:16:13.481 feel safe enough with, and if you don't have one, 0:16:13.561 --> 0:16:16.801 start working on that because they can be your first 0:16:16.841 --> 0:16:19.121 point a call. The great thing about a really great 0:16:19.161 --> 0:16:22.281 GP is I sort of see them as the center 0:16:22.441 --> 0:16:24.441 of the health, you know, and then they can refer 0:16:24.561 --> 0:16:27.121 off to Okay, like if you don't have one already, 0:16:27.161 --> 0:16:30.241 but a gynocologist or a naturopath or a psychologist or 0:16:30.841 --> 0:16:36.441 they can organize that multi interdisciplinary, multidisciplinary approach to what's 0:16:36.481 --> 0:16:41.761 showing up. Because burnout isn't I always say a bio psychosocial, spiritual. 0:16:42.361 --> 0:16:45.641 It's not a classified medical condition but phenomena, and we 0:16:45.761 --> 0:16:48.601 need to approach it in that way. Overhear psychologists. I 0:16:48.601 --> 0:16:50.361 can work on the psychological part and a bit on 0:16:50.401 --> 0:16:53.401 the social, but then we need the other professionals, Like 0:16:53.441 --> 0:16:56.041 with biology, you might need a naturopath, you might need 0:16:56.081 --> 0:16:59.561 the gynocologists, you might need definitely need your doctor I 0:16:59.561 --> 0:17:01.801 think for the person who they want to go to. 0:17:01.841 --> 0:17:04.400 I mean, definitely go to a GP first if you 0:17:04.521 --> 0:17:07.801 have a GE or finding one. But hey, if you 0:17:07.881 --> 0:17:10.280 decide to go explore the SIKE because you don't need 0:17:10.321 --> 0:17:12.120 to referral from your GP, you can go straight to 0:17:12.160 --> 0:17:14.921 a pych. Obviously, having mentalth care plan will certainly help 0:17:14.961 --> 0:17:18.481 with cost of seeing a SICH. Go where you're ready 0:17:18.521 --> 0:17:21.400 to go to. That's okay. Any starting point is a 0:17:21.441 --> 0:17:22.041 starting point. 0:17:22.281 --> 0:17:25.720 Funny, I fractured my back right at the end of 0:17:25.801 --> 0:17:29.721 twenty twenty three and fractured my sacrum. The whole way through, 0:17:29.761 --> 0:17:33.681 I was hot mess and it was the most painful thing. 0:17:34.321 --> 0:17:37.921 And in the n I saw my GP, and I'm 0:17:37.961 --> 0:17:43.160 seeing a Cairo An acupuncturist and I asked for a 0:17:43.201 --> 0:17:48.121 mental health plan. And since I've been seeing those three, 0:17:49.120 --> 0:17:51.881 I'm getting there. I'm feeling it's feeling much better. And 0:17:52.241 --> 0:17:54.200 it sort of made me start to wonder, is the 0:17:54.360 --> 0:17:58.480 back pain related to the brain to so, you know, 0:17:58.640 --> 0:18:00.841 other things? Too much on your plate again, And it's 0:18:00.880 --> 0:18:05.281 so easy as women that we're so used to Oh yeah, 0:18:05.281 --> 0:18:06.521 I can do that, and I can do that, and 0:18:06.561 --> 0:18:08.761 I'll be right, I'll do that and yes, I'll see 0:18:09.001 --> 0:18:10.801 you know that extra patient or da da. 0:18:10.761 --> 0:18:11.881 Da, they're pushing through. 0:18:11.961 --> 0:18:14.440 I can do it. And then you know where I 0:18:14.561 --> 0:18:17.920 was so diligent, I have found, you know, in the 0:18:18.001 --> 0:18:20.680 last few months, and I'm starting to put more and 0:18:20.721 --> 0:18:23.801 more and more on my plate. It's just by default, 0:18:23.840 --> 0:18:27.001 it's just happening, being invited to the you know, you 0:18:27.160 --> 0:18:31.281 have to be so mindful all the time and get 0:18:31.360 --> 0:18:35.401 used to saying no. If you've ever been. 0:18:35.241 --> 0:18:38.681 In burnout, definitely, and if you're not in burnout yet, 0:18:38.681 --> 0:18:40.600 but some of the early signs start getting used to 0:18:40.600 --> 0:18:43.840 know now because you can prevent you know, the big 0:18:43.880 --> 0:18:46.721 burnout and to the point that your body collapses on you. 0:18:46.761 --> 0:18:49.640 And I mean it's serious stuff, burnout like you cutting 0:18:49.640 --> 0:18:54.321 your vascular disease type two bees it. Burnout is a chronic. 0:18:54.281 --> 0:18:57.240 They've found that thyroid oh yep, a lot of the 0:18:57.281 --> 0:19:01.961 autoimmune conditions are related to burnout or related to stress. 0:19:02.160 --> 0:19:04.640 Well, I mean, when we're talking about burnout, burnout is 0:19:04.681 --> 0:19:08.441 a chron stress phenomena. So it is. I was about 0:19:08.441 --> 0:19:10.761 to say, just it's such a limiting word. It is 0:19:10.840 --> 0:19:14.081 chronic stress. As we put a label burnout on it, 0:19:14.160 --> 0:19:18.321 and at the moment burnout is like they say it's 0:19:18.521 --> 0:19:22.960 occupational phenomena, that the chronic stressor is work related, but 0:19:23.041 --> 0:19:27.160 they've opened that up more to where there's a load, 0:19:27.400 --> 0:19:31.480 like a particularly a load, a responsibility load, So that 0:19:31.561 --> 0:19:33.521 load can come from work, but it also can come 0:19:33.521 --> 0:19:36.001 from home, it can come from within as well, the 0:19:36.001 --> 0:19:39.801 loads we put on ourselves. But it's still considered a 0:19:39.880 --> 0:19:42.520 work related chronic stressor. And it's the fact that it's 0:19:42.600 --> 0:19:46.080 chronic because we're all built to be able to deal 0:19:46.120 --> 0:19:49.401 with acute stress, yes, but chronic stress is we never 0:19:49.481 --> 0:19:52.240 get a break. Our body never gets a chance to 0:19:52.681 --> 0:19:56.321 rest and recover and to step out of that stress or. 0:19:56.840 --> 0:20:00.561 And our bodies are still designed to need that, and 0:20:00.600 --> 0:20:05.761 we need to create a lifestyle that allows for that. Unfortunately, 0:20:05.761 --> 0:20:08.961 our culture really glamorizes I know that's not a word, 0:20:09.321 --> 0:20:11.961 but it does. Yeah, let's just make that a word, 0:20:12.160 --> 0:20:16.801 the hustle, the being everything. I mean as women, there's 0:20:16.880 --> 0:20:19.241 what now the four am club or the three am club. 0:20:19.281 --> 0:20:22.081 So you get up at five am and you do this, 0:20:22.160 --> 0:20:24.360 and you do that, and then you run ten kilometers 0:20:24.400 --> 0:20:26.680 and then you've read fifty pages of a book and 0:20:26.681 --> 0:20:26.920 you do. 0:20:27.041 --> 0:20:28.440 This three am clubs. 0:20:29.321 --> 0:20:32.440 It's a five am plum, it's four am. It's freaking 0:20:32.521 --> 0:20:38.441 ridiculous because no one long term, in my opinion. 0:20:38.241 --> 0:20:38.561 Oh. 0:20:39.961 --> 0:20:42.321 Maintain getting up at that hour going to bed, that 0:20:42.481 --> 0:20:44.801 like doing the amount of exos they're doing, right, Like 0:20:45.441 --> 0:20:46.601 I called bullshit on it. 0:20:46.561 --> 0:20:50.840 Really I reckon. We're both science, evidence based trained people, 0:20:50.880 --> 0:20:54.041 but I would say pretty much nobody is designed to 0:20:54.201 --> 0:20:59.561 be able to withstand that forever, you know, because what 0:20:59.640 --> 0:21:02.041 I understand about the body and what I've learned about 0:21:02.041 --> 0:21:05.481 the body physiology, it's not set up for that. It's 0:21:05.600 --> 0:21:09.161 not we haven't evolved into being able to hold that 0:21:09.321 --> 0:21:13.200 level of chronic on because even good things stressful for 0:21:13.241 --> 0:21:15.400 the body. But just meaning our central nervous system is up, 0:21:15.561 --> 0:21:17.600 you know, it's activated. You know we're on. 0:21:18.600 --> 0:21:22.721 It needs to be off. So what happens then? And 0:21:22.761 --> 0:21:28.121 how do nurses and doctors deal with situations where they're 0:21:28.120 --> 0:21:30.440 going to the emergency department all the time and so 0:21:30.521 --> 0:21:33.880 for example it's at Logan or PA or the Royal 0:21:34.160 --> 0:21:38.961 Marta and it just pumps all the time, so you're 0:21:39.041 --> 0:21:43.201 on all the time, or you're a surgeon or a 0:21:43.241 --> 0:21:46.640 registrar or someone and you have to be switched on. 0:21:47.761 --> 0:21:49.840 And don't get me wrong, when I was a scrub 0:21:49.880 --> 0:21:52.041 nurse and that you know, and work in the operating theaters, 0:21:52.241 --> 0:21:55.681 I got to say I loved it. I loved being 0:21:55.721 --> 0:21:58.640 on time. I loved the pressure of it. I loved 0:21:59.120 --> 0:22:03.080 running on time, having everything organized, having that instrumentation ready 0:22:03.120 --> 0:22:06.761 for that surgeon. But I didn't do a urgency surgeries. 0:22:07.201 --> 0:22:09.441 I worked in a private hospital, you know, the only 0:22:09.441 --> 0:22:11.441 time we did emergencies was when I went and worked 0:22:11.441 --> 0:22:14.120 at the Royal Women's I think I spoke about it 0:22:14.120 --> 0:22:16.481 in a previous podcast. It literally was see one, Do one, 0:22:16.521 --> 0:22:19.600 Teach One. So I'd never done a caesar before I 0:22:19.640 --> 0:22:22.761 went in. I saw them do one. I was the 0:22:23.001 --> 0:22:26.321 scout nurse. I then had to do a caesar, and 0:22:26.400 --> 0:22:28.880